Is Men's Tennis in Crisis?

Petko joins Rennae on the pod to recap an eventful Sunshine Double, where Aryna Sabalenka and the women are more than making up for the existential dilemma facing men's tennis as the stars continue to fade and the new faces falter. Plus: A daring new t-shirt design inspired by the legend herself, Serena.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Okay, Hi, everybody, Welcome to the Rene Stubs Tennis Podcast.
I have the one and only Andrea Pekovich with me
this week, which we I know you're all out there,
you're all excited, you're all clapping that she's finally back
because you've been working.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I doubt I doubt that people are clapping or maybe
clapping to get me out like sheme sheen sme.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
God you are.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Let me just say, the reason that's come up is
because you have started watching or rewatching, because you've already
done it is rewatching Game of Thrones.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so there will be a lot of Game of
Thrones references today, and I apologize in advance.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
And I'm going to say shame, shame, shame. Anyway, So
all right, we've got a lot to get to. We
are both in New York. We have come back from
Miami where you were commentating. I was down there as well.
It's been an interesting month really, you know, Indian Wells.
We had a surprise winner, not like, oh my god, surprise,

(01:08):
not like someone we're going to get to in Miami
that had a great tournament, but clearly Andrev's let everybody
know she's here to stay. She's going to be a
perennial top ten player. That's the player that was very impressive.
But hit the wall. We talked about it last week.
I talked about it with Caitlin. She hit the wall.
She hit the wall. You could see it. But I've
got to give her a lot of credit. She's in

(01:29):
the doubles final. Will more than likely when they're actually
playing it right now, but we've got a rain delay,
so we are actually doing this prior.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
We're hoping to do it after the.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Men's final, but it looks like it's going to rain
for a while and I have to go down to
Tampa tomorrow, so that's why we're doing it before that.
But Andreva, I'm pretty impressed that she's hung in there
in doubles actually, because most people she's been on the
road for like two months.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, she has. I mean I talk to Concita Martinez
in Miami and asked her what they were doing, and
she said, yeah, it's been quite tough. She had four
days at home after by and then she traveled. They
traveled to California to get acclimatized acclimatized, A climatized acclimatized
and with the time difference, So it's really an incredible
effort because you know, as you know it's for these

(02:12):
young players, it's not the physical strain that takes them down.
It's the emotional strain. Because she can sleep eight hours
and feel like a rabbit the next morning with the
same amount of energy. But it's the emotional strain of
having these two huge wins in her career, backing up
a WTA one thousand win. That's insane. Honestly, that's insane.
It's not insane because she's obviously a talent that is

(02:35):
a generational.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Talent winning in the Middle East and then coming to India.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yes, yes, it's not insane for her because I think
she just underlined and emphasized the fact that she is
a generational talent, but still from a normal who was
good used to be good. This is an insane achievement
to me, and.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Cautiously so young. So if it was a Sablanca or
an Egstrion Tech or you know, players that have been
around a while who've won a lot of these tournaments,
you would be like, yeah, no big deal. But for
someone like that to have achieved that and then get
on a plane and you know, arguably win in the
biggest tournament outside of the Grand Slams.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
It's remarkable.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
So even if you just compare it with even Carlos
al Kias when he had his first big win at
the US Open, he struggled for a few months after that,
and he's Carlos al Chiraz. So that is really an
absolutely astonishing accomplishment from her. And I mean too. I
called the semi finals between her and Diana Schneider and
their opponents Jiang and Wu, and she was by far

(03:32):
the best player on the court. She was changing directions
at will Ken Valley. I think there is still still
room for improvement, but she can. She can definitely vally.
She feels okay up at the net. But I think
what makes her so difficult to beat right now is
she is, to me, probably the player that can change

(03:53):
directions the most seamlessly right now in the world. And
I mean men's and women's except for obviously, but Novak.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
I think Yanick changes directions pretty well.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, but it just so seamlessly. I think that's actually
it reminds me of Novak peak Novak, when Novak was
and he's doing it well now in Miami but but yeah,
they there, it's a nice handful of players to be
part of that can change directions.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
So it will, and you know, I will say it
till I'm blue in the face.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
I think it's really good, particularly for young players to
absolutely play singles and doubles. There's no doubt that it
makes you a better, whole, whole tennis player. It makes
you understand angles better, it makes you understand, you know,
the ability to be able to hit lob sometimes.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
When you don't want to it.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
It's you know, you have to hit volleys from time
to time, balls hit that you're really hard at the net. Like,
there's little nuances about doubles that can really absolutely help
your singles.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Guy, and she had that. How many times did she
know that you mentioned the love? How many times did
she particularly in Indian wells where the court was so slow,
how many points did she bail herself out of travel
but just hitting the ball straight up in the air
and it every single time landing two inches in front
of the baseline, and you can there is nothing you
can do as opponent. You just have to put it

(05:07):
back in. And the only other player who can do
that is Andy or used to be able to do
that was Andy Murray, remember his defensive lops that just
go straight up with those.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Bin You know who does that really well is Alex
Dimona as well. But one player used to do it,
and back in the day was a Rancher's answer to Curry,
I don't know what it was with a rancher, but
she could hit a lob, a defensive running lob, and literally,
when I tell you, it would land without question a foot.
It's so crazy of the baseline every single time. And
as you said, you can't just like rip that out

(05:37):
of the air. You've got to let it bounce and
so that starts the point again. I think that's what
she does as well as anyone, is that she is
able to restart a point with various different shots.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
I saw it even in.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
The match she lost. She'd slice her foehand back. She
would like, she's not afraid to slice her forehand. And
I think that's really good because a lot of players
try and hit a ridiculous running forehand, you know, and
maybe go down the line and think, oh I'm out
of the point.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Fuck it, go for it.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
But she's like, you know, I'm a little bit out
of this point. I'm behind in the point, so I'm
just going to sort of shovel it back, knowing that
there's not a lot of players, particularly on the women's tour,
that like a slice, right.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
I mean, look at ash Barty. She dominated because not a.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Lot of girls like the ball coming at them low.
So it means they have to do two things. They
got to get really down. They've got to get their
hands under the ball. They're got to get under the
ball with a particular on the forehand, and or it's
halfway up the court, so they have to make a
quick decision do I come in?

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Do I hit it and come in?

Speaker 1 (06:30):
And I would say ninety percent of the tour go
hell to the No, I'm not coming in on this
because they can't bolly. So a lot of girls are
very uncomfortable with that mid court sort of low ball
off that's like two feet off the base off the ground,
and she kind of makes them think what do I
do here? And then it resets the point. So I
think that's what she does unbelievably well. I think that's

(06:51):
one of the most underutilized shots that we talk about
in tennis, is a sort of like the sliced defensive forehand. Yeah,
so she's really impressive. I can't wait to see how
she does on every surface.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah yeah, I think she can do really well on grasp.
But she lost early, actually, so let's not maybe spend
an hour on her. We will talk about her plenty
in the next ten years. But Arena Sabalenka once more
saves tennis in general from its way into obscurity. You know,
I'm just joking. Obviously I'm being a bit melodramatic here,
but it's been a slow death for the favorites, mostly

(07:24):
on the men's tour, but it has been as well
on the women's In some regards Rebeccna losing in her
first round, her first match, second round after having a bye,
IgA just still struggling with her form in the latter
stages of matches. That's something that is really interesting to
me that you know where she usually these top players

(07:44):
and these champions, and Niga is a champion where they
have the most confidence they can. Like, if you play
in a Grand Slam, this is an a personal anecdote.
If at a Grand Slam tournament you play a Serena Williams,
you happen to be drawn against Serena Williams. Right, there
will always be one person in the locker room will say, well,

(08:06):
better to get her in the first.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Round, and everyone just like, oh no thanks, I'd rather
not ever see her.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
But still there will be somebody and you will agree
at some point in your life, and on some day
you will be like, yeah, it's true, it is better
to play her in the first round than in the quarters,
because that's when she will excel, be full of confidence,
and your chances are even lower. And that's what's so
interesting right now about Ego's trajectory is that she is
winning the first round matches. She is getting times at

(08:36):
times really easily through the first round matches, and then
when you think now she's regained her confidence, is where
she falters. To be fair, I looked up her the
people she's lost to this year, and it's all people
that you can lose to. She lost to Keys with
a match point.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, yeah, she didn't know how much that affected her.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Right exactly, And you don't know she was so close
to winning that Zabalenko was not play as well as
she's playing now again. At the Austrian Open, struggling with
her surf, she lost to osta Penko in Doha, a
player she's never beaten.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's clearly her that is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, but it's clearly you know, we all have that
one player that just you don't seem to have all
be on clay. No, she is all five.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
No, but I'm saying it's ostapenko've beaten her in clay.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
I don't think they've ever played on clay. I don't know, maybe,
but she's oh and five?

Speaker 1 (09:25):
How much do you It's really interesting to think about.
You think, Okay, if it happens on clay, if she
loses to os Penko on Clay, you're like, it's just like,
I don't know. I just don't even Plage.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Just panics when she sees her. Then she loses to
Andreva in Dubai. At that time, it was shocking and
I'm putting quotes, which is tough on the podcast because
nobody can see me, but I'm putting quotes. I can
see it she which was shocking at that time, but
looking back, it's not shocking at all because Andreva ended
up winning Dubai and Indian Wells back to back, ended
up being probably the best player off that stretch of

(09:57):
not probably which she was, and then she loses again
to Andreava and India Wells. So the player she's lost, now,
that's what's unnerving for her, probably is that she lost
to somebody ranked outside of the top hundred Alexandrea Yala,
who was an absolute gem at this tournament in Miami.
But still that's what's what's made probably unnerving for her.

(10:18):
But I think, what is what I know? I'm mixing
up my words here. I don't know. I feel that
it's a way it's supposed to be my off day,
so maybe that's why. But what I think, what I
want to say is at the same time, it's not
as bad as people make it out to be because
the players she's lost to are the best players of

(10:41):
the season. And still there is a lingering question in
the back of your mind where you're like, but Ega
gets the best she is at those quarterfinals stages, why
is she not winning these matches? So I think both
it's true. At the same time, why do you think
that's happening?

Speaker 1 (10:57):
What do you think's happening?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I think you're right about what you just said about
the match against Keys. I think that really shook her
confidence because if I was trying to say that was the.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Best match I've seen her play in a long time.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Absolutely, and the whole etain opened. I mean, we talked
about it on a podcast. I kept saying, this is
the time for Ega. I think she will win. I
think she will get to the final because I saw
all the improvements. I saw how well she was playing,
and obviously Maddi Keys was in an absolute trance and
she was just the best player there. She was shooting
everyone out of the stadium. I do think it's a

(11:27):
good point that you're making that that match cost her
some confidence. The reason I say that, I've been trying
to think back when the last time was that IgA
Schiantek lost when she had a match point.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Or was up, but never right. She had never lost
a up match point.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's what I mean. And I think, and I remember
when I had I always tell the story. I think
people are tired of hearing it. But I never used
to choke. And then I choked one time, really hard
against Atlanta Kuznetso. I was nineteen or twenty years old
at the French Open. She was the title defender. I
had qualified one round. I played her second round and
I was up six four five four forty love on

(12:06):
my own serf, and I choke and I didn't lose
it because she said she was smart. She saw I
was choking and just put every ball in and I
got so tight I couldn't make a ball and I
ended up losing six foot in the third. For the
next seven months, I choked every single match, and I
was already twenty. It was not like I had just
come on tour. I had already been on tour for

(12:26):
four years, and I never of course, you sometimes lose
when you're up five to two and the other player
just plays better. But I wasn't known for choking, and
I had to I had to hire a sports psychologist.
I worked through it, and then I never choked in
that way again. There will always be matches where you
kind of choke, but not in that way again. So
I'm just wondering if that took still lingering. Yes, if

(12:48):
that took a huge thing out of her, out of
her armor of confidence that she had built up over
so many years. But at the same time, what I said,
I don't think it's as bad as people make it
out to because if you look at the player, she's
last two they're all players you can.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
They've all done very well. And of course Ala had
an amazing tournament. She beat Mattie Keys, she beat Ousta
Panko in the first round, she beat Eager Mean, she
beat three Grand Slam champions. So and she pushed Jess
Pergola big time in the semi finals. Like Jess, I mean,
that was as quality of match as we've seen. I
mean it was like winner after winner after winner. So
she reminds me a lot of when Laila Fernandez.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Came out of the same right, small.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Tiny I mean, they're both like five four five five.
Maybe on a good day you could blow them over
with a good wind. Both lefties arguably like to both
go down the line when they have the opportunity. They
like to be aggressive, decent movers, not fantastic, but good enough.
But they are both super aggressive on the return of service.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
So agreed, like they both That's how.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
She it wouldn't it be a question to ask alex
Is that did you or did your coaching crew or
did you sort of look to a Lala Fernandez, because
you would, right if you were a tiny lefty and
you see this young Canadian, you know, get to the
final of the US Open. That would have been a

(14:07):
very sort of like what was that like four years ago?
That would have been a very pivotal time in her life.
She probably was like what fifteen fourteen and seeing this kid,
going wow, that she's just like me. I can play
like that, but I have to play aggressive like Leila
Fernandez is super aggressive.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
She's not a pusher line.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
And that's what Ayela is like as well. She kind
of like stands way inside on the second serve and
crushes it. And so it'll be interesting to see clearly
how she does after this now because her serf is
not good. But when you pointed that out to me,
I said, but she's a leftier, so she gets away
with it to a certain degree.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah. Maybe it's the Fernandus thing. Maybe it's also my
hot tache or my theory that I've always had is
when we are bad at something, we develop another thing
that is really good.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Like she's very Angie Kerberish, right, not in the game style, No,
not in the game style, but the fact their second
serfs are fuck in horrendoum.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, But I think what I meant is I had
a really good return of serf because between being aged
fourteen and sixteen. When I grew, I had a gross
perth in my shoulder and I couldn't lift my shoulders,
so I couldn't serve, and so myself was so bad
for the height I have. I'm five to eleven. I
should have served a lot better, and I was never
able to because in these two years I kind of

(15:27):
lost my serf. But I developed my return game at
that time. So maybe because she's not serving well, that's
why her return is so good, and you said it
exactly right. That's how she beat Maddie Keys. She was
up inside the baseline on Maddie's second serve, her first
serve percentage dropped under fifty percent, and she served the

(15:48):
double fault on breakpoint twice and the first and the
second set. And I think she also served the double
fault on match point. If I'm not mistaken, maybe I'm mistaken,
but she served in pivotal moments. She served double fault,
and that's because of the pressure Alexeiyala was putting on her,
and the same thing a little bit against ighiantek I Cat.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
I agree. This is my thing about Eger and it
has been for a while, is that her serve is yeah.
I mean she's five ten five eleven as well. She
should have a much better serve. And I absolutely hate
her service motion. It is so discombobulated. It's like she
takes the arm there and then the thing there. Her
foot comes way too much to the front of the

(16:29):
of her body. She should be way more side on.
She should have a lot more wrist snap like her.
Her serve has not developed at all, I think, and
it's so predictable, but to.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Be a kickserf, that's not true because she has actually,
compared to last year, her average mileage is ten miles
per hour higher.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I'm talking about the predictability as a second serve. No, no,
the speed has gone up question.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
And also she was serving exclusively kickserfs. Now she also
has the buddy surf. Yes, she should be able to
serve the slicer, but that's not fair to say that
she hasn't developed her so if she has worked on
it so much that I think she gets confused on
it sometimes. And I called the match against her from
her against Elena Swittelina the night before she lost to
Yala and she had completely lost her rhythm on the serf.

(17:15):
She was getting broken left and right, but she herself
was returning really well.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
She got broken against Iowa too.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Well, that's the thing, but she wasn't returning as well
against Yala, That's why she ended up losing that match.
But against Vitelina, she was returning like she sometimes can.
She if I say a second.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Set right handed right, but every second serf she was
all over it.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
She had so many return winners. That's why she won
that match. And then in the second set she kind
of found her rhythm again and it was six y
three fairly easily. But I kept saying in the first set,
it looks like her serve is off, because she now
is at one hundred ten, one hundred eleven twelve mile
per hour first serf average. She was at one hundred
three hundred four. So clearly something is off. And we

(17:56):
never know. She might have had shoulder issues, on neck issues,
back issues. We don't know these things. Maybe it's windy
and in Miami.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's not that you just made a point with me, right,
So you're saying one hundred and twelve hundred and thirteen,
she used to be about one hundred and three hundred
and four. She's the same height as Madison Keys arguably
a little bit taller actually, and she is the same
height as Mira Andriver, Andriver is like my height, you're right,
five ten something like that. She fucking pops to serve.

(18:25):
She's seventeen at one hundred and twenty. You know why
because her technique is great. Her technique is fantastic.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, but they always had this technique's but Keys returns
horribly compared to Chiante. Well yeah, but that's what I mean.
If you develop one. Madison Keys always said, I've been
playing with her since she's sixteen years old. She's always
had one of the best serves in the world. But
you knew if you serve a lot of first serves,
but she won't make she will miss three returns per game.

(18:52):
That's changed a lot. But what I'm trying to say
she never needed to develop a return. IGA's weapon was
never herself. It was her big islag game and her
return That's why she's never developed it. I agree that
she needs to. I don't know if change it, but
I agree she needs to develop it. Then that's what
they are doing. But it's not fair to say she
has a bad serf compared to keys and Mira Andreva,

(19:13):
whose weapon the serf is and has been since they
are fifteen years old. That's not fair to compare. You
have to compare it to somebody like Swittolina who never
had a good serf and then came back from the
baby break and all of a sudden could serve one
hundred and twenty miles an hour.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I'm trying to like
compare their serves, but I'm just saying she where she's
getting hurt now in some of these matches is she's
getting broken a lot. And I think the predictability of
her second serve in particular, is that's where it hurts her.
She hits the same one over and over, and she's
she kind of refuses to like change it up. And
I think it's very hard for her to change it

(19:48):
up because of her motion because it's so discombobulated and
she has like three hitches and she's very front on
her ball toss is sort of in the same spot.
It's way too far to the right. Like there's a
lot of things that I've feel like she could improve
to get a better serve where she can get more
free points on her serf, and it would be more
it would be less predictable, particularly the second serve, but

(20:09):
also it would become more of a weapon, and I
think that it hurts it. This is why she does
well on clay because the serve doesn't really hurt her
that much. And the kickserve is quite good on clay
because it bounces even higher. So all of those things
are true. But on hard court, when you do play
a Madison Keys, or a sabal Ancor or a Rebekina
at her best, all these players, if you lose serve,

(20:29):
you are losing the match because they are not going
to lose their serve that much. You are not going
to break their serve as much. Right, So if she
wants to improve on hard court or on a faster court,
she has to and must improve her serve. That's just
how I feel. One hundred and twelve miles an hour
is not good enough for her.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, I mean, I just I know, but okay, but
I think you're being unfair because it's now a moment
in time in Miami where she hasn't been serving so
well in the and wells, everyone serves differently because the
court is so slow. If you look back at the
Australian Open, she got broken once against Madison Keys and

(21:06):
that match she lost once. That's amazing. Yeah, I could
sign to get broken toe. It was the best match
I saw her play. I've seen her play, but she
was serving like this the entire Austraana. I called every
single match of hers a United Cup, and I called
four of her matches at the Australian Open. She was
rarely getting broken. So this is a moment in time.
And I don't know if she's changed something between the

(21:28):
Australian Open and now, or the Middle East and now,
if it's because whatever it is, if they are because
remember what Wiinfi said said in January. He said that
it's a stepping stone because she remember last year she
put her it was even more this combumbulated. She would
take her arms straight up and then throw the toss
the ball up. Now she has like an in between,
and he said it's a stepping stone. He wants it

(21:50):
to be one fluid motion at one point, so maybe
they continued working on it. And now it's this year
in between where she's not at the Australian Open motion
but not yet quite at the final Vision motion and
she's she's lost the rhythm on it. I don't know,
we don't know. We're speculating, but obviously something was up
with the surf. I agree, But I just think it's

(22:11):
a little unfair to put the whole surf in question
when she was serving so well all Australian summer. It
can it's not a bad shot if you're doing it
so well for a month and then now it happened
to do it not as well. You know.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, well, I guess time will tell, you know. But
I just think this is just my personal opinion. I
think that it's a shot that needs to improve for her,
particularly on a faster court, if she wants to get
free points.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
And that's what she thinks too. That's why she's been
changing her motion so much. Because you don't do that
if you think, oh I have a great serf, now
I'm going to change all the techniques. Yeah, because you
do that because she probably feels the same way, like
she wants to have more free points.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Speaking of, and we don't need to get into it
a lot, but you know, Cocoa Golf also just disappointing
month for her in Indian wells in.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Her life, like did you see her service motion live?

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I just saw it on video, so I no, I
didn't see her because it's.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Different when you see a serf live. I've I've never
noticed because I watched so much tennis on TV, and
then once I started well, I noticed it when I
started doing a lot of court side for Tennis Australia.
They like to have me court side. I noticed how
much more you see, especially on the service technique, when
you're on the court next to them right. Even if

(23:24):
you see most of it on TV and with all
the camera angles, it's still different because you get a
sense of when they let the ball go on the toss,
you get the sense, oh, when they are nervous, it
goes a little bit of the front to the right.
So that's why I was asking whether you had seen
her life, because I do think when you see it times.
But yeah, yeah, I didn't see that she served. For

(23:45):
those who haven't maybe followed her, she served twelve double
falls in her straight sets loss against Magdalinette.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I mean for me again, you know, with with Eager,
I feel like she doesn't use her flight enough on
the serve. I think she gets way too front on
and I think that's one of the reasons why she
doesn't serve with the same consistency as some other players
with the first serve and particularly with the second serve.
But you know that's look, I could go into technique
all day, you know what I'm like, But for me

(24:16):
with Coco, you know, just the ball toss is just
all over the shop. She doesn't get behind her enough.
I just her grip is wrong. I think her elbow
gets super low and sort of so close to a body,
the left arm jops down. There's so many little technical
things that are going to be a problem for her
going forward forever because it doesn't just just go away.

(24:37):
You know, Billy Jinking always said bad technique breaks down
under pressure, and that is unfortunately going to be a
problem for her forever unless she addresses that again, because
you cannot be serving eleven twelve thirteen fourteen double faulter match.
I mean it's just unheard of. And so you know,
I mean, we love Coco, we talk about her all
the time. I'm sure on Clay she can get away

(25:00):
with a little bit more. She doesn't need to go
for the big bomb on the first serve because her
her ability on the baseline is so good. So we'll see,
because Clay is a good for me. I think if
she's gonna win another Grand Slam, it would be on
clay so or obviously on a hardcourt again, but we'll see.
We always we always pull for.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
But we actually started talking about how Saberlenka is saving
the tennis and that we just want to thank her
for saving tennis. And we'll let me talk about her.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Because I mean, look, she is the only player that
did well in both weeks, right, everyone else poo pooed out?
All the guys lost in the first round that made
the semis.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yes, all for that's really interesting what you just pointed
out all four semi finalists of Indian and Wells lost
in their first match, which they are seated, so they
get a first round by and they lost in their
first match. My question to you the different conditions of
the Sunshine Double. Yeah, are they too different?

Speaker 1 (25:56):
They're very, very different.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Do you think it's fair to the play I mean,
no part of last week, Okay, I.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Said last week. Clearly you didn't listen to the podcast,
But I said, I hate back to back one thousands.
I don't think we should have them. I don't think
we should have Cincinnati and the Canadian you know up
in Canada back to back. I don't think we should
have Indian Wales and Miami back to back. Let's spread
them out through the year a little bit more. Stop
being so condensed, because as you know, those ten day
events back to back, it's a lot, it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
And now we have more of them.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
And you've got more of them, so and you know,
this is why the PTPA needs to pull its finger
out and go after not only the grand that need
to also go after the Grand Slams because that's where
the most of the money is. Grand Slams and these
WTA and at B one thousands. But going from Florida,
going from Indian Wold conditions where it is a desert
Wilson balls, totally different atmosphere to go to Miami where

(26:48):
it's heavy and it's humid and you're using Dunlop balls
which are like bricks, and you're playing human conditions, and
the course much faster.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
It was a lot fast. Especially supposedly the grand stand
compared to stadium court was by faster by a mile.
A few players who had played on grand stand and
came on stadium. We're like, oh, that's easy.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
So our point in saying this is Arena Sabolanka don't
give a fuck. Yeah, well, maybe she goes on hardcore.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
That's so amazing.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Well, I think because she just has that attitude of
I don't care how different it is, I am going
to play my way and that's it. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
I think it is fair to say that it's more
astonishing that she made the Indian Welles Final than the
Miami because Miami proved her so much more. She got
so much her best. She has a lot. Oh it
looked like it stopped raining. Well, take a look around.
We are just watching.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
We are literally watching the tennis life.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
We're watching the tennis life. And the court is very wet,
but we can't tell if it's still raining. The sky
looks a little bit lighter. But that's the thing with Arena.
She's very good in many things, but her best thing
in her game is her shot plus one return plus
one surf plus one. When she gets per set ten
to fifteen three points like this where she just goes

(28:08):
like cut a book, cut a book. Whether that's with
the return, I'm.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Sorry all of the people that are listening to this
and you just melted your brains with your EarPods in
or air pods or whatever, and when what the hell was?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
But that's how it feels. But that's how did I
want the people, the listeners to feel, like to feel
how I felt playing Arena Sabalbenka. That's how it feels
like cuta book. And when she has that, when she
has these ten to fifteen points per set that she
just wins by shot plus one, she's virtually unbeatable unless

(28:42):
somebody like mir Andreva manages to somehow extend the rallies,
or Ego and Clay somehow manages to extend the rallies.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Or in my Manny Keys in Australia does the same
out hit her or was doing the same thing maybe
just a little bit better when it counted. Okay, so
a question for you. And I got asked this the
other day by my friend Jen. She texted me and said, okay,
Renee Peak, does Peak Arena Sablenca beat Peak Serena Williams?

(29:10):
And I said no, and I was very adamant about it.
And the reason I say that is because sometimes with
Arena the server is a little unpredictable.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
She also does give you some random free points where
it's just like it's kind of an easy forehand and
she misses it, and it's just like, well, thanks for that,
and then she comes up with like ten that are outstanding.
But Serena at her peak, when we're talking at peak,
we're not talking about oh, you know, on any given
day at their peak, Serena was serving you off the
motherfucking court. You were getting aced twice a game without question.

(29:42):
I mean I played a lot of times in doubles
and there was one particular time it was three all
in the third at Wimbledon, caught one. I was a
defending doubles champion. I was playing with Corina Morariu against
Venus and Serena. Serena, it's three all in the third.
It is unbelievable atmosphere, Like you know, Wimbledon doubles sometimes
the atmosphere there is just awesome. Right, And of course

(30:04):
playing the Williams sisters, we're going to have a packed
crowd and we are. This is such a fun match.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
It is.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
The crowd is so loud Petco. There was not a
seat available in this house. It was like eight thirty
nine o'clock at night, you know, and the sun's going down,
there's lights disappearing. You're like, do we finish this match?
And at three, literally at three to two, we're up
three two, and they had to Serena had to serve,
and the training of the WTA supervisor came out in

(30:32):
the court and they said, I said, I can't, we
can't see anymore and it was getting really dark, and
she goes, you have to play one more game. Because
they try and stop on an even right, they never
try and stop with somebody leading, which is is fair.
And I'm like, okay, and I'll never forget. When we
got up from the chair, the crowd went bonkers because
they were like, no, please, don't stop, you know. And

(30:52):
so when we stood up, they were like yeah, and
they were screaming, and Karina and I were trying to
talk of each other. We had to scream to one
another to like get our point close to each other
because it was so loud. We get up Love forty,
Love forty, and we're like, motherfucker, we're gonna come on.
We're gonna be about four to two and then we
get to come back tomorrow and hopefully serve it out.

(31:12):
Oh no, ace out, white ace down the tee, another
virtually unplayable serve back to juice. In like three seconds,
she just went bang bang bang, and then probably aced
one more time and they won the game three. Oh
fucking good night, And we came back and lost six
to three in the third. It's like Serena could do that. Yeah,
you name a player that can do that well on

(31:33):
the consistency that they stepped to the line. And all
you're thinking is, don't seek.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Inside on this because I played peak Serena and I
played peak Arena both and so I will give an answer,
but first I have to say to those who are
watching asking why didn't they just turn on the lights?
Renee played in the seventies Happy Birthday.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
So it was actually a couple of years before they
put the roof on Court one, and if we would
have It's funny you say that because the first year
that they did have the roof was my last Wimbledon
final against Venus and Serena, and they said, if it
goes three sets, we're going to close the roof, and
we lost seven six, seveny five because it was so late. Yeah,
So I fuck you.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
I was just but that is true, and that was
that was a really nice So yeah, it's going to
come down to the same I played, And by peek Arena,
I mean I obviously didn't play her when she had
been or when she was already a Grand Slam champion,
but I played her on one of the best days
she's ever had. I lost one and one. I was
playing well, you know, I lost one on one. I
was playing well, and I lost to Serena. I played

(32:36):
Serena many times, but I lost to Serena in that
year when she was going for the Grand Slam, when
she had one Aussie, French and Wimbledon and was going.
She then ended up losing to Rebetta Vinci. But I
played her in that year, so that was arguably peak
Serena for the time when I played. She had many
peaks in her life. And the reason I will go
with Serena is she had and that's something that so

(32:56):
misunderstood about her game. She had a lot of variety
people thought, and the Service the perfect example for that.
People thought she overpowered everybody. No, nom Osaka overpowered everybody.
Saballenka can overpower everybody. Serena, what she did and I
will never forget this. In that match I lost two
and two, and again in the same match I played well,

(33:18):
I had no chance. And what Serena did. She started
the match serving only the slider out wide on Duce court. Yeah,
three four times in a row. Right, I'm standing five
meters behind the baseline because I'm expecting the seven thousand
miles per hour serve. No, she just places it up
because she sees where I'm standing. She's smart, you know,
she sees me. And then after three four times getting

(33:40):
a's there or like unreturnable, I go like, oh, bet
a cover today, I bet a cover debt, So I
back forward. I go forward. I got Coulos into the
line and she goes boom boom, two big teas and
then another one down. My body almost kills me. It
could have been over too all because she almost killed me.

(34:01):
And then when I had to back up again, she
started against Yeah. She understood the game like nobody else
that I played. She was the smartest player. She didn't
overpower you. She hit a little angle out and then
she crushed the ball and you didn't know what to do.
You never knew where to stand because she could hit
the big one, and she could hit the small one.
That's why I will go with Serena against Arena. You

(34:22):
asked me the question before we went on air, and
actually my instinct, I said, the only player I think
could have beaten her peak. I still would if I
had to bet, I would always put my one hundred
dollars on Serena. But I do think on a random
day stepfie Graff could have beaten her just because of
the slice. And you had matches to Arena, yes, where

(34:44):
Serena would be bothered by a disruption of rhythm. However,
because she lost to Vinci that year.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, you know that was like she never liked the slice.
That's why Sam had a decent record against rain.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Actually, yeah, three was budget STEFFI well.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Very budget Steffie and only Serena one time. It was
actually the first time she ever got more than four
games in a set. Yeah, was that particular match she
played her the week before? I will say Serena was
getting Tireder New York lost.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
That match for Serena. I had never seen a city,
a country so up in a frenzy about Serena winning
the Grand Slam. And I remember she was on buses,
she was on metro stations, she was everywhere. Times Square
only Serena Nike ads everything, And I remember thinking, I
know it's Serena, She's the toughest player I know, but

(35:33):
even she must be bothered by this. This is insanity.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Don't give you another little story on that. So I
was covering the Canadian Open that year because ESPN covered
that tournament at the time, and I was courtside for
most of the matches and Serena, I was you know,
there's different locker rooms there that and I think it
was in Montreal.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
She lost to Benchit in the semis or quarters.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. But before that, she played
Robert of Vici in I believe, like the third round
quarters maybe, and we shared a locker room because all
the players are in one locker room, and there was
another locker room just for random people. And I was
using that because it was so it was just I
was so hot, and I could go in and use
the bathroom and change if I needed to and whatever.

(36:16):
It slate the coach's bathroom, and Serena was in there.
She didn't want to, she didn't want to go into
the other locker room. She liked to sometimes randomly go
into like a locker room by herself, and so she
was in there all the time, right, So I would
see her in there all the time, and as you know,
we're friends, so we would chat. She ends up winning
this match against Vinci, and this was when she was
going for the Slam. As you said, you could tell
that she was getting tighter by the minute, not the day,

(36:40):
by the minute. You could just see her getting tighter
and tighter, knowing that, oh my god, I've the US
Open is two weeks away, and I'm going for a
calendar Grand Slam. And she had won the Serena Slam,
where she'd had all four of them together, just hadn't
done it in one year. She did it twice actually,
And so she plays Robert of Vinci and she wins
like four and who was something like that in the match.

(37:01):
But she was so effing tight in this match. I
see her after the match in the locker room and
she looks at me and she goes, that motherfucking slice.
She goes, I hate that slice. I hate what do
you do with the slice? What do you do with
that ball? So annoying, YadA YadA YadA, like to me right,
and I was laughing so hard. I was like, well,
for me, that was no big deal because I had
a great slice, so I'd like, I'd just slice it back.

(37:23):
But if you don't have a great slice, you're that's
a hard shot because you've got to get below the ball,
you've got to generate your own pace, you've got to
be confident, and if you're not and you're choking, that's
the worst shot to hit right, especially on the forehand.
So I knew that she was already like shitting herself
going into the US Open, and then when she had
to play Roberta in the Semis, I'm like, well, this
is a nightmare, because I remember how she felt about

(37:45):
playing her two weeks prior. H Even though she won
the match, she looked like she was like losing, you know,
and the stress was getting to her anyway. So my
point in all of this is peak Serena beats peak Arena.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yes, I agree because they.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
But it's the reason we say it is because you
always knew Serena at her very best, never ever fucking
lost her serve, and so the pressure on you as
a server was so intense and immense. It was off
the chairs.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
And the thing with with Arena I was I played
her when I was a bit older already, and I
had lost a lot of you know, I had to
lose some weight because I had this chronic knee problem,
so I wasn't at my strongest, at my most athletic.
And with Arena, because she had so much power, it
felt to me like if I wasn't behind the ball,
it would push me back right, So I had to

(38:35):
always and so I had to lose a bit of
ground because I like to play on the bassliine, but
with Arena, I couldn't do that because it was pushing me.
So I had to lose a bit of ground. And
that just then my shots were not really going through.
But I wonder when I had been at my peak
physically and I could have like withstand their power a bit.
You know what Mirror did to her in the Indian
Worlds final. If you can extend the rallies and get

(38:57):
she will get you know, she will get nervous and
heck Dick and Serena because she had as well as
the power, she had the movement, the smartness. No, I
want to say to i Q, it's the way she
used angles. She had the chord.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
It didn't miss e though a lot. When she was
at her peak, she wouldn't. She knew when to just
roll the fullhand in.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
And the tennis court opened up to her in ways.
Your boyfriend could never.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Put that on a T shirt. Just to let me

(39:56):
finish up on Serena. That one of the things that
when people ask me that, I said, and just go
and watch the Olympic final in London where she played Sharapova,
who was playing really well and serving really well, and
it was over in like five minutes. I've never seen
a more devastating two sets of tennis against a great

(40:16):
player in Maria sharpogeer was playing well and make her
look like she was terrible. I mean, there was one
time where Marie had to serve out wide at like
one hundred and fifteen sixteen seventeen miles an hour, and
Serena hit it back faster than Maria could refocus her
eyes back on the court. It was just like boom
down the line. I ex said to Mary Carillo when
I was calling the match for NBC with her, and

(40:36):
I said, Mary, sometimes there are just no words, and
that's exactly how I felt. When Serena was her absolute peak.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Well, when you have that match, I always I always
point people to the Ostannan Open final against Justina and I,
which Serena won six y four or six three in
the third. And the reason I point them to that
is because Justine was somebody who could disrupt the rhythm,
and she did and she tried to play the short slices,
she tried to come to the net, So Serena had

(41:04):
to play a lot more variety than she usually would
and she showed her whole just the whole width of
her game. And yeah, but to be fair, Arena is
very good when she's at her Yeah, I think she
would beat a lot of top players, but Serena is
the I.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Think it would be like five and five or six
and six. Yeah, I think they hopefully they were at
their very peak. We're talking at their very very They
should hold surf. But anyway, all right, that was a
total random tangent talking about Miami. But but just to
finish about the man, zabal Anka was fantastic. Well done
to her. We'll see how Eager bounces back on clay.

(41:40):
We know that she's, you know, the best player on clay.
There's not even a close second to her. But but
it'll be interesting you see how she backs it up,
you know, and how she can sort of let it
go and move on with the clay. So we'll see
how she does. And clearly everyone else like Mattie Keys
and you know how she's going to bounce back. So
it's two random losses, you know, I mean, I basily
lose his Sabolaka is not a massive shock, but own one,

(42:06):
but you know that has to sort of like rattle
you a little bit. And then to lose to Alex
that was kind of random as well. But anyway, let's
talk about the guys. Obviously, what we're seeing with speaking
of plays that did not do well in anyone else
but have come back and bounce back. Novak Djokovic in
the final random finals that he's up against. We are

(42:30):
not going to get to see it, unfortunately, but Mensik
who took out Taylor Fritz in the semi finals. That
was a great match. Very disappointed a little bit from Taylor,
and I think, you know, just it was a huge
opportunity for him to not only be in another huge
final because he hasn't been a lot of mustus one
thousand finals, and he's got to figure out how to
do that more on a consistent basis if he wants

(42:52):
to win a Grand Slam, for example. But I think
the thing, and I'll say it until I'm blue in
the face, and I know everybody thinks I yabber on
about this because I was a net player. But fucking hell, like,
he needs to get his volley game better. And it's
the difference for me, is the difference between Yannick Sinner
and Na Carlos Alkirez, who've managed to win most of

(43:12):
the last two years of Grand Slams. The improvement of
those two and their ability at the net is heads
and shoulders above everybody else except Novak Djokovic. You have
to be able to finish points at the net these days.
These guys move too well. They're also good from the
back of the court, and if you're not hitting them
off the court, good luck, because all of them run
like fucking jelly, like athletes that are crazy around the baseline.

(43:36):
You got to finish the point somehow. How do you
do that? Taylor's got to come in and finish balls
at the net, and he's so bad at the net.
I mean, the way he won his quarterfinal match. If
just go back and watch match point, if he had
just run into the net, he would have the easiest volley. Instead,
he'd let this ball bounce and I was like when
he did it, I was like, what are you doing?
And he flicked this like two handed back and he

(43:57):
ended up winning the point. I was like, oh my god.
But like, if that dude just came in like a
Yanick Sinner doesn't go to go bang with a normal volley,
he would win so much more. I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
I will say it as it is. Man's tennis is
in an existential fucking crisis.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
And this is why we have you.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I'm sorry, I have to say it. It's true. Yannick
Sinner and Carlos A. Karaz kept a veal in front
of our eyes, making us think, is a veil a veal? Veil?
How do you say veil?

Speaker 1 (44:26):
He said a veil? I was like, what is that?
A German?

Speaker 2 (44:29):
They kept a lamp shop in front of a veil. Sorry,
I'm not I'm not a.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
You say veil, but you we talked about this yesterday.
You have such a hard time saying west phillage because
the war is German.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
You know that's that the confuses me and then it's hard.
And the reason I say that is the moment they
are gone.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
People do see that.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
It's absolute carnage.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
People do love when you see the vada that was
for you out there. I can't remember which person the ballot,
but they love when you say the vada.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, I'm sorry. My visa and w's and v's are
tough for me.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
And the Yeah it's Connage, it'sage.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
It's Connage. Yeah, Sinners is not there. He suspended and
Alcoraz lost early, and then you just you can like
throw a dart blindfolded at a at a dartboard and
you see what sticks. If it wasn't for Novak. And
Novak is thirty, he's about to turn thirty eight years old.
The other guy should not have him in the final,

(45:30):
winning matches to and two. He's played like two tiebreaks
in the first two rounds, still finding his footing. Then
he couldn't lose more than three games per set. He's
thirty eight, He's had a pretty good raw dough. He
did have a pretty good Still, he's Novak. He's the goat.
He's amazing. He's the best player that's ever played this game,
huge fans. But he's thirty eight. He knows he's not

(45:51):
at his peak. He isn't the Novak that he was
when he was twenty eight, or even thirty three, or
even thirty five. But he's still better than every thing
that's going on right now. Yeah, that's crazy, and that's
to me not shocking, it's very normal. But I do
think that underneath the Sinner al Karas thing where they
had split all the major but he's still young, he's

(46:13):
coming up, he's still young. If it hadn't been for them,
you would have seen that what's happening right now. This
is not a bad thing, not at all. We've been
through this in women's tennas five six years ago. It's
a change of generation. It's the new generation is not
quite as solid yet as the Novak's and the Rogers
and the Rufaware and the older generation is older.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Now.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Novak is still incredible when he's fit, but he gets injured. Now,
you know, at the Austraana Open, he I think he
would have won the Austriana.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Oh well, I think he would.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
The Sinner would have been tough, but I think he
would have definitely made the final if he hadn't gotten injured.
So Novak, but he's older now, so you can't count
on him being healthy for two weeks at a long tournament.
It can happen, but it seems to be almost the
exception rather than the rule that he's like when he
was just three years ago, when you knew he was
the fifth player in the drag.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Well now it's becoming increasingly more difficult over best of
five sets too, yeah, which is why he was able
to win the Olympics last year. It was best of
three sets.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
But that's I think. I honestly think that they should
that people should just as I said, it's not a
bad thing. That people should just accept it and accept
the chaos, because I remember seven years ago people were saying, like,
oh my god, the women's tennis, anyone can win a
Grand Slam. Guess what now in men's tennis, unless Janick

(47:30):
Sinner comes back at the same prowess that he's had,
or Carols Akaraz finds the consistency within him, it's going
to be the same in men's tennis. And be prepared
for it, because that's the hell of a ride. I
loved women's tennis six seven years ago. Yeah it was crazy. Yeah,
Osta Penkos won French Open, but it was kind of
fun as well.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, and who cares? Yeah, other people winning the tournament.
And I will say this till I'm blowing the face.
Best of three sets is not as physically as difficult,
but there's no fucking question it's more mentally difficult because
if you turn up and you're a little nervous and
you lose that first set, you are one set away
from being out at the tournament and you are shitting yourself.
Whereas men's tennis, you can lose a set, maybe even two,

(48:10):
and you can still win the match. Look how many
times Novak's been down two sets, love and one and
then are winning the Grand Siton, winning a major title.
It happens all the time in men's tennis. So it's
like people like you know, bang on about how difficult
it is, and men deserve it because they played more
and then play best of five. I would guarantee you
that Eager Siontech would be the type of players say
give me best of five, yes, because she.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Sold it, and so would Arena. Arena would arguably be
one of the best of it was best of five.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Yeah, because you have a room to fail in the
first set. You have time to, like, you know, get
rid of the nerves a little bit, because often it's
the first three or four or five games that you
like determines the first set, and if you could, if
you're down four to one, you're out of there in
the first set. Whereas men's tennis, they're like, well, okay,
I lost a set, and I'm not saying don't lose
your get your on your nickers in a night, like

(48:56):
don't be like oh Renee Stubbs thinks that men's tennis
is easier, it's not. Physically it is more demanding, there's
no doubt about it. Ever best of five. But to
win a Grand Slam, when you have to win that
first set and you're a little bit nervous, you've got
a lot of pressure on your shoulders. Whereas men, they
get a chance to get their way into the match.
Now they have to physically close it out. But if
you're good enough, this is why these guys winning straight.

(49:17):
So look at Sina and Sverev at the Strain Open.
Sin it's just superior tennis player. Ti Zverev. He just
is so if it was best of three, would Verev
feel like he has a bit more of a chance
probably if heels like best of threes.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Because also you see it. That's a really good point
because if you see it, they played in Cincinnati a
really tight match where it was three sets. I think
it was seven six or seven five.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Better place is always going to win five, right.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
But and there was a great u There was a
great example of what you're just saying, because I think
the first of the second set went into a tie break.
And there's also more pressure on a tie break because
you're like, oh, if I lose this, it's said, well, yes,
one year a one set down, right, So there's more
pressure on a tabreak. Whereas at the Australian and they
also played a tie break in the second set, but
the onek was up by one set, and if I

(50:04):
lose this, I still have like, yes, three more sets
to go around the better player. So but I will
say what we don't see as women. But I've worked
with two coaches that used to coach on the men's tour.
Why it is more demanding is not only the actual
matches they play, but the weeks they have to practice
before a best of five, and that's why Curios is

(50:24):
having trouble. Ninety minutes is not enough. They have to
be out there, they have to do the long sessions
three and a half four hours. That's where they drain
themselves of energy, not in the best of FA's are
the best athletes in the world. They can do best
of five, but they have to do it weeks before
to be able to sustain best of five. And that's
where they really deserve I wouldn't say deserve more prize

(50:47):
money because we're in an equal world, but that's where
they deserve more praise because they let a lot out
there on court in the practice weeks leading up to
major tournaments.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah, yeah, so I think you know, physically yes, Mentally
it's questionable. It just depends. So anyway, it's difficult.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I want to emphasize that I am loving this for men.
I love having Jack Draper as the Indian Welsh champion.
I love Yako in the final.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
You heard that he's going to win Wimbledon, right Who
said that? I said that?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Oh? Really, no, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
It was a joke. You know how the English get
when one of their players is like doing really well.
So as a sort of a bit of a joke.
When he won and he of course beat Carlos Alkarez,
who's the two time wibledon champion, I put out on Twitter.
I said Jack Draper is going to win Wimbledon, and
you should have heard the litany and the responses I got,
Like people really thought I was like dead serious. But

(51:37):
then part of me now is like, I'm fucking praying
for Jack Draper to win wimbled so badly.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
I just think he will actually have more chances on
the hard courts or me.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, I think so too. I think he's a better
hard court player, but then again, he's won a tournament
on grass, you know, because.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Your side here, I think, actually it could be. I
don't know how he'll have the clay, right, but I
don't know how he moves on clay. But if you
can figure that out, I think he could actually pay
because he has that heavy forehand. But he gets rushed,
because that was the problem against Mansig in Miami. He lost,
and I think who's the happiest about Mansig making the
final is Jack draperk He's like, oh my god, I

(52:12):
won in ya wells, then I lose first round, but
he lost to Yak of Manzig, who made it ended
up making the finals, so that was not a bad
loss at all. But you could see him there. Mansick
is one of the best backhand down the lines on
the men's tennis, like all check players do for some reason,
and he rushed it or just backhand in general, not
only down the line, across course as well, and he

(52:33):
rushed Jack a few times into the forehand because Jack
has this like heavy spain, he needs to get under
the ball, and you could see him there a few
times on these and they played on grand Stand, which
was so freaking fast. So so yeah, that's why I
think he will have more trouble in Wimbledon than in
other places. But do I think he can win a
major title? Absolutely? Yeah, I think absolutely, And that's what's

(52:56):
so fun, And I just I think I want to
employ people to see this as a chance of new
players becoming huge stars and it's going to be fantastic.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
But I think we can assume that Novak Djokovic, the
greatest of all time, will end up winning Miami, even
though the match hasn't started yet.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
It hasn't started. I think so too. I mean, I
said it after the Austrian opened and people were laughing
at me. I said, the match he played against Carlos
Alcoros was the best match I've ever seen him play.
And I have an explanation for this. The reason I
think that is he played like he always played, like
Novak Djokovic, who changes directions, doesn't miss the ball, blah
blah blah, returns incredibly, but he did it twice the pace.

(53:36):
It was like they put the video on fast forward
because he had injured his leg and he was going
on adrenaline. But he knew I can't play with Carlos
for five sets in his leg. I have to go
for it. So he was playing and doing the same
things Novak Djokovic does, but double the speed. And I
was shocked to see him do that at thirty seven
years old. So he is clearly still the best player

(53:58):
in the world when he is healthy. Okay, Yannick, but
Yannick is not there right now and Carlos. What do
you think is up with Carlos.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I don't know. It's very unusual. I mean, listen, he's
always been a little bit flighty, you know, a little
bit like deer in headlights sometimes and loses focus, and
he could be up a set in five to three
and thirty love and then all of a sudden, you know,
you go to the bathroom, you come back, it's five
all you know what happened? He just goes through these random,
like mental like lapses and poor choices are shot and

(54:26):
all this sort of stuff. And look, I think that
that I think I've said for years that there was
that is going to get better as he matures. But
now I'm like, is it just him? Is he just
like this? Does it just lose focus? Does he have ADHD?

Speaker 2 (54:40):
You know?

Speaker 3 (54:40):
I mean, like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
He's tried to work on the serve as well and
change that up, but there's certainly. I mean, I think
he's so adorable though. The stuff he puts out on
Twitter as well or on his social media is like
someone wrote something about about him and then he's like, well,
oh it was it was his profile photo on a
badge or something. I can't remember who it was another
player and he wrote back, well, I don't have a
lot to smile about right now, honey. I was just like,

(55:04):
the kid is so funny. I have no doubt when
the French Open, rolls around in Wimbledon, he will be
the player to beat alongside.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
The same the same thing for him, best of five.
I think he just probably feels a litt bit and
he probably feels I've made this point always with Carlos.
Carlos needs friction. You will see him and now obviously
he didn't do it, but most of the times he
will play shite and then it's one for and all
of a sudden you can see him dial in and

(55:33):
just like zero down his focus and play five times better.
He needs the friction to function. He can focus when
it's three love he gets bored.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's DHD.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yes, he's just like he's like that.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
He's like he's like a rubber ball that just pings
around the room and you're just like, wait, stop, you
don't need to do that. You don't need to hit
that wall. Just come back.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
So I don't know, I do think, I don't know.
I put in my last sub stick my I have
a news letter that comes out every Friday. If you
want to subscribe, please do really what it I put
it out In my last I was writing about the
interesting balance of friction and looseness, and how everyone is different,
like Gaile Montfis has less tension in his body to
be at an ideal temperature. Ju Draper, yeah, exactly, or

(56:18):
Jack Draper has a bit more that he needs to
perform at.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
This and then Rough is on the opposite end of
the spectrum of all of that.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yes. Well, And I was saying, I was wondering because
I spoke to Juan Carlos Ferrero in Australia and he said,
the one thing they really want to work on this
year is consistency, and they are working so hard on it,
but that's something that adds tension right into your body.
And I was wondering if maybe Carlos, that's like my
hot take. It's really super speculative, but I was wondering
if the working on the consistency that naturally adds tension.

(56:48):
But he is, by nature somebody who needs creative freedom,
and he's just calibrating. You know how a needle needs
to calibrate before it falls into the right place. And
maybe that's he's calibrating this, you know, like added tension
and then when he falls into place, he will probably
win every single tournament until the end of days.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, it's a good thought process. So I guess we'll see.
I mean, I always talk about the bell curve whenever
I talk about coaching, you know, like, you know, if
you know what a bell curve is, everybody does. We
all learn about it. The highs, the lows, blah blah blah.
I always found that Rafael Nadal's bell curve was like
little ripples, right, because his high was so high and
his low was so short. Yeah, right, So it was

(57:29):
like ripple. So if you imagine I'm just moving my
hand like a little ripple. And then someone like Nick
Curios is like his high was as high as Novak's
or as high as Roughers, and he's low is like,
so his bell curve is like really high, really low.
It's like it's like and now I'm drawing mountains right,
going all the way back down to the ocean, you know.
And I feel like Arena Sablenka is, you know, her

(57:51):
ups and downs were really high and low. Now she's
becoming a little bit more of a ripple. Right, her
high is very low, sometimes her low is a bit low,
but it's less bell curve, is you know, Eager Shantek
is a ripple on clay, right, it's the same. She
knows how to play that. On hardcourt, it's a little
bit up and down. But I just think the way
to handle that and the way to do that is
on the practice court. So if you are a type

(58:14):
of player that's high and low, you've got to stop
doing that on the practice court. You've got to like
zone in. So maybe in his practices as well, it
would be interesting to go watch him practice and just
see what that's like, because for him, when you look
at Rafael and a Dal's practice, his was a ripple, right,
he was just one hundred percent. Never the same. Novak's
kind of like a little bit chats and talks and

(58:36):
goes over his hands, and that's how he is when
he pray it plays. That's why he's like chatty with
his box. I was joking last week on the podcast
that I looked. I just thought it was hilarious when
he looks up at his box and his physio is
telling him how to hit a fuehand, I'm like, what
the fuck? And there's any murrays, But I know why
you tell everybody because we know, yeah, he needs to

(58:58):
say he needs that. No, no, somebody has been the
loudest person in the box.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
No, the reason why they do it is he's the
only Serbian in the box and he wants to have
it in Serbian. He wants to speak in Serbian. So
and he tells him what to say, and then he
says it to him in Serbian. Okay, So it's a
language thing.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
So also, but the physia was showing him how to
hit it. I mean this I didn't know, but it
was showing him how to hit the forehand okay, also
in Australian. And asked them why, and they said, because
Novak likes to have the instructions in Serbian because it
goes quicker into his subconscious or whatever. So I understand.
But in this regard, he was actually gesturing how to

(59:34):
hit the shot.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Maybe he has a really good forehand. How do you know.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
I've seen seen him play, Yeah, I've seen Himis you
seen him play here?

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Maybe it's the best forehand in the world.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
He's not a good tennis player anyway.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
All right, Well, listen, I just want to say I
can already see the.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Headline.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
The headline says, the Men's Center is an existential crisis.
Have the decency to tell the people there was a joke,
you little fuck. We get annoy so angry, you know,
you know what it is the reason why it makes
me so angry. I don't care what they say, but
it makes me sometimes hold back to say what I
want to say. Yeah, but I actually want because we

(01:00:11):
have to have good relationships with the players. They don't
know I was joking. You know. If they read it,
if they happen to read it, they will think Andrea
said that he's bad, or the man says And I
don't want it because I have to maybe interview.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
There is a video if you go on YouTube, right
or whatever, and you know, I've put in my name
for some reason, and there is one thing that says
it's a photo of me and a photo of Novak
and it says and the headline is he's an asshole
or something something really horrible, right, and then you go

(01:00:43):
to it. I never said anything like that. I would
never say that about Novak, but no, of course not.
But it's like that's what they say, and I'm like,
how is that allowed? And it's the same. It's like
this sport keta thing that listened to us, and they
take these lines out and they put it, it's just
really irresponsible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Generally, it's irresponsib the reason because I think the players
know or differently, but there is an unspoken contract between
players and pundits. They know we are paid to criticize
them at times, but also praise them when they are
doing things well, like we praised the arena, like we
praised Yakomensk and Novak today. Right, But there's also and

(01:01:22):
there is an unspoken contract and everyone accepts it and
everyone gets along fine. But if you see things like
this where you supposedly said Novak is an asshole and
he sees that. Now it's a personal attack, of course,
and now you have fucked when you have to interview
him on court in front of ten thousand people on
atha ash, right, or the same thing with it which whatever,

(01:01:44):
if it comes back to the player and that's not
what we said. We've spoken about an issue for twenty minutes,
dissecting what they do and how they do it, and
they just pulled that one. And they pulled that one.
That's why it's irresponsible, because it's destroying the coverage for
the players and the pundits who have to work with
it together because we are together trying to tell a story.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
All the time. Yeah, anyway, wells listen, it's never going
to change, but we would just want to put it
out there on our pod. So for everybody who listened
to us, thank you so much for listening to us.
We please liken subscribe.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Sense know that we're goof both.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Yeah, like and subscribe. Please when you listen to the podcast,
you know, do you a little rate it because another
thing that people like to do is they go on
there and they give it one because they you know,
if I've said something they don't like about their player
or something, these people go on there and they go
to the one star. So for all the people that
actually do like our podcasts and enjoy, please put five
stars and please subscribe because you know, that's how that's

(01:02:40):
how we survive out here in the world. That's how
the cookie crumbs are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
You invite me for a drink, will.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
We're going to go and have a drink now in
New York because that's what we do here. Petko, thanks
for joining me today. Everyone, thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Thank you for listening. Do you want to end this podcast?
We're telling people how we walked out and there was
seventy seven degrees and literally three minutes later it was fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah, it was. It was quite surprising. Yesterday we were
all bitching about how hot it was in New York
and then literally five minutes later we were freezing our
asses off. Anyway, I felt like I was back in
Melbourne all right. Guys, thanks for listening to us, Petco,
thanks for joining me again. I love you. Okay, see
you guys next week.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Jees