From smart factories to connected fleets, businesses have come to expect seamless operations at the push of a button, but there are millions of moving pieces and years of work behind powering up and connecting the hardware and software that makes their systems hum. The developments behind 5G act as a backbone that many of the latest technologies rely on. From the early strategies behind design to the creation of flourishing ecosystems, advancing any technology is difficult. One as critical and fast-moving as wireless communications is a gargantuan task.
In this episode of The Restless Ones, we sit with Durga Malladi, SVP and GM, Cellular Modems & Infrastructure, at Qualcomm Technologies, Inc, has spent his career advancing the technologies powering the wireless industry. In a world that has evolved from devices simply talking to humans to devices talking to millions of other devices, Durga and Qualcomm’s work to constantly increase throughput and reliability while lowering the latencies of these communications has brought us to point of the “Connected Intelligent Edge”. A space where, with the help of wireless networks, data can be consumed in ways we could never have imagined possible. They say “advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Thanks to Durga and his team, this may be true.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
We have industries who are truly excited and fascinated by
the prospects of five G technology, but they have never
deployed anything wireless before. And I can give you examples,
like take manufacturing plants. What they are interested in is, hey,
can I go ahead and have wireless communications inside so
that I can digitize the entire manufacturing plan, get tons
(00:25):
of data, do a lot of processing analytics, improve my
productivity with it. And that's only possible with technologies like
five G. Welcome to the restless ones. I'm Jonathan Strickland.
I've spent the last fifteen years covering technology and learning
how it works, demystifying everything from massive parallel processing to
(00:47):
advanced robotics and everything in between. Yet it's the conversations
with some of the most forward thinking leaders, those at
the intersection of technology and business that fascinated me the most.
Today I'm speaking with Drga Malatty from Qualcom Technologies. Durga
is on the cutting edge of wireless connectivity and has
(01:09):
spent a quarter of a century creating systems that are
at the very heart of communication and data. I knew
that I was in for a great conversation right from
the start. Before really waiting into the world of five G.
I wanted to learn a bit more about Durga's personal background. Derga,
(01:30):
I just want to start off by saying thank you
for joining us on The Restless Ones. That is a
pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for
having me. We always like to start getting to know
our guest a little bit better. And I was really
curious if you could tell us how you first got
interested in technology in general, and when did you decide
to pursue technology as a career path. Okay, so this
(01:55):
actually goes back all the way to I think middle school.
That was the first time I was like supposed to
you know, a lot of the fun aspects of physics
and doing experiments and tinkering with things was something that
really got me excited. The first time that I built
an electromagnet. We were all used to magnets, but the
idea of using electricity to create magnetism was something that
(02:17):
was so fascinating. I just got hooked. Wow. And to
go from electro magnets all the way into things as
complex as semiconductors. I remember learning about it in high
school and trying to wrap my brain around it and
finding it somewhat challenging. At what point did you really
focus on that as being your career that this was
(02:38):
This wasn't just interesting, but it was something that you
really wanted to pursue professionally. My mom is a math
teacher and my dad is an engineer, so stem was
something that was kind of ingrained in our family. In
any case, from my perspective, I was always fascinated by
the combination of physics and math, but it also became
quite clear to me that applied physics was far more
(02:59):
interesting to me, and from an engineering perspective, the whole
notion of wireless communications and signal processing. It also was
the beginning of the transition from the first generation of
wireless to the second generation cell phones. This was in
the early nineties where cell phones were becoming more mainstream.
(03:20):
It wasn't something that you would just see in a movie,
but it was something that was being used more in
daily lives because back then the phones were much bigger
and all you could do was voice but there was
so much more that you could do. And the other
interesting part was that in the early nineties there was
something else that was going on in parallel, and that
was the birth of modern day internet, and so the
possibilities were just endless. You know, we're talking about voice
(03:44):
using phones and wireless networks, but what if you could
bring in data as well? So it was just a
fascinating field. I also love science and math, and it's
one of the reasons I really love technology, because technology
is the actual manifestation of science and math athen proof
that this stuff works, because obviously if it didn't, the
(04:04):
technology would never work. And it is a thing of
beauty really to see science and mathematics at work and
making things possible. I think a lot of people kind
of lose sight of that, and they just see what
the end result is and they kind of lose appreciation
for sort of the beauty the underlies it all. Completely agree.
(04:25):
One of the sayings that you know I read back
in the day was, I think just touching upon your
point that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic,
and there is something magical about that. It's one thing
to learn a subject, do all the maths behind it,
have the theories behind it, but when you actually see
it working, there's always that moment of wow, I can't
(04:46):
believe this is awesome and that's something that specifically the
case when it comes to wireless communications, the idea that
something is being said or transmitted from a location and
in a completely different location you actually get exactly the
same thing. And I would argue that the bedrock of
violence communications is that confluence of physics and math that
(05:08):
comes together and all the engineering that goes behind it. Well,
anyone who can quote Arthur C. Clerk to me is
top in my book. I'm a huge science fiction fan
as well. Well, what drew you towards the mode of
marrow F technology in particular? How did you start getting
involved in that specific field? You know, in the second
half of my grad school I was focusing a lot
(05:29):
on signal processing, some of the algorithms that are necessary
in base PAN technology to process the signals once they
come through the RF in itself. It was quite clear
to me that I was really interested in data communications
and the signal processing that is needed for data communications.
This is in the late nineties when overall as an
industry we were gradually migrating beyond text. Text messages were
(05:53):
always there, but this is going a little bit beyond that,
and it was quite incredible to even see can we
actually read email on a cell phone. We take it
for granted today, but back then it wasn't very obvious
that you could actually do that in a seamless manner.
So for me, working on the baseman technology was something
that fascinated me quite a bit. The transition towards three
G was happening, the dot com boom, wireless boom, and
(06:16):
this transition from the Internet was taking on in wildline communications,
so there were so many things there, but it became
quite clear to me that base pan processing is going
to be key because there's a lot of sophistication that
we need to bring into the table once you get
past all the analog processing that's done in the outer
front end. And so straight out of grad school i
joined Qualcom. Qualcom was right in the midst of all
(06:39):
the G transitions and making data come into wireless communications,
so it was a natural spot for me. Derek's story
impressed me. It's not often you hear about such a
smooth transition, and before we move on to talk about
the present and future of wireless communications, I thought it
was a good idea to do a quick rundown of
the past because the terms can get confusing in part
(07:01):
because the transitions have been gradual, and sometimes a single
generation has multiple standards like G s M and C
d M A. So in the beginning, we have the
first generation of wireless cellular technology, otherwise known as one G.
This was analog technology that really only supported voice, with
a maximum data speed of just two point four kilobits
(07:22):
per second. The second generation of tech emerged in the
early nineties. We made the switch to digital instead of analog,
boosted the data transfer speeds, and allowed for stuff like
call and text encryption. This is where cell phones really
begin to take off. There was quite a bit of
evolution between two G and three G, which was introduced
(07:42):
in the late nineties, and with three G we had
faster data transmission speeds enough to support tasks like video
calling and mobile web browsing. A decade later, we got
four G with even greater data transmission speeds and support
for a wider variety of services, including HD, mobile tele vision.
All smartphones like the iPhone debuted in the era of
(08:03):
three G. There was really four G connectivity that allowed
the mobile Internet to flourish, and now we're in the
five G era with the potential for incredible data throughput
and low latency, and as Durga points out, these capabilities
really create opportunities well beyond mobile devices. So the birth
of the smartphone was what really made four G tick,
(08:27):
and that's the one that actually continued for another ten years.
So it's all completely based upon mobile broad band. And
as we started looking at it, why stop just at smartphones,
why not have database communications and every single device that
you see around you all kinds of devices, and these
are devices that communicate not just with humans, but also
with each other. And it was with that sort of
(08:50):
thought process that the original vision of five G as
a unifying connectivity fabric for everything. It's not just for smartphones,
it's not just for voice communications or data communications, but
it's all of the above for all kinds of devices.
So it's been a long and very productive and sophisticated journey.
If you kind of think about what we are capable
(09:11):
of doing with five G today, and for those of
us who have been fortunate enough to be part of
the journey from the nineties onwards, it's always quite something.
It still gives me goose bumps, and we are only
getting started at this point in time with five G.
I'm sure We're going to talk a lot about five
G capabilities in our conversation, and honestly, the more I learned,
the more excited I get, because I think for a
(09:33):
lot of people, including myself, the initial messaging that the
mainstream gets, tends to be in that smartphone realm, right,
that that's the five G experience that you're going to
be able to access things faster. But that misses so much.
I see five G playing an enormous role in our
day to day lives, but also an unseen presence that
(09:56):
ends up powering so many of the other technologies that
are going to shape the way we live moving forward.
One of the big questions I had for you then,
in case people aren't familiar, is within the five G picture,
what role does qual Calm play. Yeah, that's a very
important point. So as qual Calm in our heart, we
(10:18):
are an end to end systems company. We're not just
a company that does the chips. It's starting from foundational
fundamental design, starting literally from a white board, proving out
concepts that have never been done before. So if you
just take a look at the complete pipeline, there is
a design cycle that starts way before several years before
(10:40):
we even start seeing any commercialization for that, and by
the time it comes to commercialization, we are focused on
a few key concepts. On five G we power the
MORTEM outive solutions that go into all kinds of devices,
devices that range from smartphones on one hand, two laptops,
fixed wireless access, mobile hotspots, routers, increasingly automobiles where vehicles
(11:05):
now come in you can buy a car with cellular
connectivity inside that and going into from a device perspective
into the infrastructure domain where we provide the MORTEMARTI solutions
that power pay stations as they exist, and there is
an evolution happening on the infrastructure domain as well. So
that's a portion that we are probably you know, more
(11:26):
known from a product standpoint, but it is important too
for everyone to understand that as Qualcom, we do always
come in with an end to end vision. We have
a complete picture of what we want accompletion. We've actually
gone through that process. So because of that, our touch
points are practically everywhere in the ecosystem. We work very
closely with mobile operators who eventually consume the technology that
(11:47):
we build. We don't directly sell into them, but they
consume the technology eventually of what we build with our
direct customers, the O E M s who build these
devices or build the infrastructure, our partners who are either
the infrastructure domain or in the cloud players or in
the actual device Williams themselves. They're also our partners in
terms of doing a lot of interrupt testing, and that's
(12:08):
one of the important aspects of the wireless communications piece.
The ecosystem is gradually growing. If you were to fast
forward from the nineties to where we are today today,
it's a really big tent. Right now. We have industries
who are truly excited and fascinated by the prospects of
five G technology, but they have never deployed anything wireless before.
(12:30):
And I can give you examples, like take manufacturing plants.
What they are interested in is, hey, can I go
ahead and have wireless communications inside so that I can
digitize the entire manufacturing plan, gettle tons of data, do
a lot of processing analytics, improve my productivity with it.
And that's only possible with technologies like five G. You
could do exactly the same thing with large scale utility grids,
(12:55):
especially as one thinks of a mix and match of
you know, the energy assets, you might have data that's
coming in from wind, solar and hydro power, complementing oil
and natural gas and put it all together, there's an
overall grid management, but a lot of it depends upon
data that's constantly streaming in. Once again, five G technology
for utility grids is a fascinating use case in itself.
(13:17):
So there's a lot of these new industries that have
never done anything wireless before, but they are adopting it,
building it, testing it, and so that's the place that
we are right now. There might be instances where maybe
this is not the technology for you, but there's a
lot of instances where this is indeed the technology for you.
And yes, we will do our part in enabling you,
(13:37):
and we can bring others together as well because there
you need them as well. And that's the way that
we actually work for the ecosystem. Conventional thinking says you
have to pay more to get more I want to work.
But Team Obile for Business uses unconventional thinking to deliver
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(13:58):
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mobile dot com. For those who when they hear five G,
(14:23):
I think the two things they think of first, they
think of high bandwidth. Especially if you're just a casual consumer,
you're probably thinking, Oh, that's the thing that will let
me download a series in just a couple of seconds.
The thing that really excites me with this idea of
low latency high bandwidth is the potential for use in
(14:45):
all sorts of applications. So can you talk a little
bit about that, about how the low latency aspect of
five G enables new technologies that just a generation ago
would have been impossible. Know, this is the first generation
in wireless that we are placing some kind of emphasis on,
(15:05):
not just the typical data rates in bandwidth, but latency
is just a responsiveness of the system. You would do
something and you immediately see the response of that. And
I'll give two examples of that where latency matters quite
a lot. The first one is I give this example
earlier of a manufacturing plant. Inside manufacturing plants, especially some
(15:26):
of the more sophisticated ones. There's a lot of industrial
grade ethernet that is used. This is wireline communications. But
you have two machines, you have a controller of a machine.
They're communicating with each other. And what matters, what's paramount
is a command gets sent out and it is received
by the machine on the other end at a very
(15:47):
low latency. Similarly, you have the same machine that is
sending back some heartbeat messages. It must be received like clockwork,
at a certain point in time. And that's a place
where if the object, if you can think of that
happening quite easily on a wire, you kind of expect
that kind of equality of service in a wire. When
(16:07):
we replace those wires with wireless technology, you want to
actually have exactly the same attributes, the same set of features.
So latency matters in industrial equipment, as five G actually
comes into the picture, because that's what it brings to
the table. But what the other thing that it now
does is now as the machines get moved around and
(16:27):
so on, you don't have to necessarily first bring out
the wires, the kind of move it to a different location,
plug it back in, calibrated, and there's a lot of
up and downtime that's associated with this, and you can
actually get past that. So that's a clear application of
where latency matter is quite a bit. The other place
is where you know. Another example, and I'm kind of
(16:49):
deliberately picking a more futuristic example but not that far off,
is two vehicles communicating with each other. There is a
technology in five G called V two X. It's really
vehicles community adating to other vehicles. Imagine a scenario where
every vehicle out there has got this technology and you
have basic safety mechanisms that are actually communicated with each other.
(17:13):
There's a car that's driving in front of you, and
if the driver actually, you know, slams on the brake,
then instead of you just seeing that red light behind
and then realizing that someone just applied the brakes in
front of you, the car actually sends a message saying
I just applied a break. Your car receives it as well,
and it takes all the appropriate measures. So this is
(17:33):
like basic safety, but it's also kind of mission critical
in some sense. So latency matters. Every millisecond matters over there.
Humans take a little bit longer, but your vehicles can
actually react much faster. So this is another example of that.
So these are a few examples where you can immediately
see that it's not so much about tens of gigabits
per second, data rates and so on, but it's all
about latency. I see it also being critical for applications
(17:58):
such as virtual real the and augmented reality. Any case
where you are presenting the user visual information, it has
to be very timely. Otherwise what one with virtual reality,
we all know that if there's any latency, you're bound
to experience motion sickness. You get that virtual motion sickness.
(18:21):
But also with augmented reality, obviously you don't want any latency.
If you are looking at a building looking for a
specific office, you want that information to pop up immediately.
You don't want to be sitting there waiting for it.
Or if you are following directions so that you can
get someplace, you want those turn by turn directions obviously
to show up before you've passed the turn. Obviously, the
(18:44):
metaverse is one of those topics that's been getting a
lot of buzz recently. Obviously, all these companies that are
rushing into it. I imagine that five G connectivity is
going to be absolutely pivotal for the early days of
the metaverse. Absolutely. In fact, that was going to be
my next point on that one. As you go, you know,
(19:04):
beyond these examples that I gave one latency, if you
think about picking up from where you started off with
virtual reality, wherein there is something called as a motion
to photon latency. In other words, like in the physical world,
you move your head, you want to see exactly the
same thing in the virtual world as well, but a
lot of that processing it's being done elsewhere, and so
(19:24):
you want to make sure that the overall latency is
so small that when you move, you actually see everything
else in the virtual world move with you as well.
And that's a very important attribute from coal comp perspective.
We call it as the connected intelligent edge, and there's
like three different words over there, but if you were
to break it down, it's important that connectivity is no
longer you know, a nice to have, It is a requirement.
(19:46):
It is a necessity. You must have connected devices whenever
you have these meadows based devices, whether it's excity devices
or something else. But you also want the devices to
be intelligent enough to do some of the processing inside
the device, but also do some of the processing close
to the edge. So you can actually imagine that maybe
you're in a conference room and you have a processor
(20:08):
that is there inside the conference room, but everyone is
wearing their glasses, and then you have in a remote
conference room somewhere else geographically separated, there's another set of people,
everyone's wearing their extra glasses. You have the processing that's
occurring there. So that's the edge portion of it, where
some of the processing is being done at the edge,
but you also need the devices to be very intelligent.
(20:28):
But you almost kind of take connectivity for a granted.
So connected intelligent edge is something that we are very
focused on, ask wal Kom, and we have been kind
of driving that vision as much as possible, and we
believe that this is going to be the foundation for
the starting point of the journey into the metawords. But
this is the foundation, that's the way that we see it.
I have another quick question here, and that is do
(20:52):
you have any other examples of how five G technology
has been of benefit to your clients. I know you've
taught a little bit in generalities, but are there any,
without necessarily naming names, any specific implementations that you've seen
that have been sort of almost like the killer app
(21:13):
for five G. Well, okay, that's a pretty broad term
over there, but I would like to actually highlight one
thing that did happen in the last two years. It's
just coincidental with the pandemic if you kind of think
about it. The initial five G launchers were in so
spring of was the first set of major announcements coming
out from the US and Korea, and then we had
(21:35):
U S, Korea and Japan, Australia, Europe, and China, the
first six regions which launched five G. But then right
after that we hit the pandemic. That was a point
in time where it was, you know, new frontier for everyone,
no clear rules written as to how do you keep
the productivity of organizations going while everyone is figuring out
(21:58):
how to work remotely. And one thing that happened is
that the five G features and new capabilities and two
devices and two networks continued quite smoothly actually in spite
of the pandemic. I think as an industry, we were
able to immediately bring in some of the technology as
solutions to enable people from working from wherever they are.
(22:22):
Everyone started paying attention to what kind of connectivity do
they have at home or wherever they are working from.
And so connectivity was no longer a luxury but a necessity.
It was important not just to have some bare bones,
but high speed connectivity. We started thinking about broadband services,
which is not just something that you find in urban
(22:44):
areas or even suburban areas, but even in rural areas.
If you take a look at the digital divide between
the rural areas, in the urban areas and the rural areas,
the data rates that you get is a fraction of
what you actually end up seeing in the urban and
dense urban areas. An example that, by the way, is
distance education. In urban areas, the kids actually went back
home and they are now in zoom connectivity. But kids
(23:07):
in rural areas, all they really need is the connectivity
and they can have access to the same high quality education.
They don't necessarily need teachers physically present in the schools
right there. Now, the quality of education and locations is
determined not necessarily by the quality of teachers who are
in that local area, by by the quality of the
(23:29):
bandwidth that you have. So we started working a lot
on fixed wireless access services, working with operators everywhere in
the US to see if you can do rural connectivity,
and we were able to get to gig a bit
data rates in rural Wisconsin, rural Iowa, and West Virginia.
So I wanted to give an example of something as
a technology that actually has the ability to transform. From
(23:51):
my perspective, fixed wireless has been a huge success story
that we don't talk about a lot, but it's actually
coming up very nicely in five G. This goes beyond
smartphones but really about transforming a lot of communities and
a lot of industries. I love that. As the son
of two educators, that speaks to me, especially the son
(24:12):
of an educator who worked in a rural school in Georgia.
Out of curiosity for those companies out there that might
be lagging a bit behind in the adoption of these
high speed wireless technologies, what sort of your sales pitch,
What do you end up really focusing on when you're
talking about the capabilities of wireless. I think with a
(24:36):
lot of these industries that you know, you can take
the mining sector as an example, or in the early
days of our discussions with the manufacturing sector, I think
the first thing that I always do is listen. I
want to listen to the problems first before I actually
saying that, yeah, this is a solution. This is not
a solution for everything, but I want to make sure
that I listened to what they have and guide them
(24:57):
towards the entire process of what it aches to adopt
the technology as well. Maybe five G is the right
technology for you, but you know what, here are the
things that you might have to do A B, C,
D N E. We will help you along the way.
And by the way, as a part of this journey,
you should start getting gradually involved into some of the
standardization bodies as well, because the standards, like five G
(25:18):
standards is not something that a small group of people
decide somewhere and then publish it. It's an open system
wherein anyone who wants to adopt five G can come
into the standards body and say, hey, these are the
requirements that I need in my industry. So when you
place those requirements into it, a couple of years downstream,
(25:39):
you'll have a new standard that will come out which
will have all of those requirements baked in as well.
So we've spent some time also explaining to people that
you should be a part of this coalition as well.
So today, if you take a look at the five
G standards bodies, it's quite common to see those who
are from the automobile industry, those who are from manufacturing industry,
(25:59):
and so on. They've never been in these kinds of
standards parties before, but now they're an integral part of it.
So it's a combination of yes, we have solutions, but
we are also here to help you and guiding you
through the entire process. You'll have to do some of
the work yourself, but we can bring other partners into
the picture over here and make sure that you're part
of you know, the standards as a part of like
(26:21):
giving in requirements into the SPIX. I think that's fascinating,
the idea of this being a collaborative effort to come
to these standards so that it isn't like some secret
cabal handing down directives that everyone must follow, but rather
it really is an effort to say, what are your
needs so that we can build that in and then
(26:43):
it falls to companies like Qualcom to create the technologies
that actually meet the needs of the end users, whether
it's a company or a person who wants their technology
to all speak together without any latency. One for well,
I have a very easy question for you. I'm sure
(27:03):
it's one that you'll quickly be able to answer. What's next. Well,
you know, five G is now about three years old
and entering into the fourth years, so we're about I
would argue that, you know, thinking about what I said earlier,
there's a ten year journey towards the next D and
so on. We don't start thinking about the fact we're
working on the next year. We just keep working on
(27:24):
new technology till it becomes sufficiently different from the previous one,
and then you call it the next year. So yeah,
obviously what's going to come next is five G advanced,
and we're not that far from it, by the way.
But one thing that's happening is that as five G
is in a position to generate lots of data, there's
also a lot of work that's coming up from another
(27:46):
important technology, and that's AI, the ability to harness and
process all the data to come out with something meaningful.
So you kind of have a situation wherein five G
and a I kind of feed off each other. Five
G generates a lot of data that helps AI. AI
then helps five G in a different way. And so
the combination of five G plus AI is something that
(28:07):
is quite important for us. And just a couple of
months back we introduced the very first AI based processing
techniques as a part of our five G solutions into
smartphones actually, and so this is something that's going to
be growing quite a bit, so really looking forward to it.
But yeah, that's about the kind of a way that
we are thinking about things right now. I couldn't let
(28:29):
Durga go without asking him one more thing. What is
the question I did not ask you that you kind
of wish I had asked you. One usually thinks of
five G as something that is a premium technology, something
that's there only for some very expensive devices out there.
(28:51):
There is a lot of work on what is known
as reduced capability so that there is a complete portfolio
of solutions in five G. You know, there's a one
size fits all five G. Five G goes all the
way from hundred megabits second to like a gigabit per second.
Another point that you know, we didn't touch upon as
much is the importance of reliability. Reliability of communication and
(29:13):
what is known as sometimes mission critical communication. You're sending
a command out there. It's important that it is something
that's received very quickly, but it's also important that it
is received extremely reliably. You're not watching a video where
maybe there's once in a while there's a glitch and
you're like, that's okay, that's fine. No, No, this is
like a mission critical message. It must be received, and
reliability is another attribute that five G is bringing to
(29:36):
the table. It's quite important whether it's first responders, or
whether it is some of this manufacturing equipment, or even
in those vehicular communications. Reliability of communication is an important
attribute as well. Turga, thank you so much for your time.
We greatly appreciate it. We've really enjoyed having this conversation.
I had a lot of fun. Thanks a lot, Jonathan.
(30:02):
My conversation with DRGA really drove home that we're living
in a world that just a short while ago was
the stuff of science fiction, and that so much of
our world is dependent upon these invisible connections that carry
data to and from devices all around us. It's not
just that almost everyone in the world is carrying around
(30:25):
a combination of a computer, communications device, a camera, and
an entertainment center just in their pocket. It's that we
have this back end capability to support these devices and
provide incredible experiences. Moreover, we need to remember that that
same back end capability can do so much more than
(30:45):
provide opportunities for personal communication. It is a foundational technology
that creates endless possibilities. Whether we're thinking about a personalized
experience like exploring a virtual environment, or a communication fabric
that enables fleets of cars to coordinate with one another,
it all boils down to five G paving the way.
(31:07):
I can't wait for you to hear more conversations with
the forward thinkers, innovators, and well restless ones who are
leveraging tech to build the future. Make sure to tune
into the Restless Ones every other week for a new episode.
I'll see you then. T Mobile for Business knows companies
(31:29):
want more than a one size fits all approach to
support I want the world, So we provide three sixty
support customized to your business. From discovery through post deployment.
You'll get a dedicated account team and expertise from solutions
engineers and industry advisors. Already right now, I want it now.
(31:49):
Three six support that's customized for your success. That's unconventional
thinking from t mobile for business,
We have industries who are truly excited and fascinated by
the prospects of five G technology, but they have never
deployed anything wireless before. And I can give you examples,
like take manufacturing plants. What they are interested in is, hey,
can I go ahead and have wireless communications inside so
that I can digitize the entire manufacturing plan, get tons
(00:25):
of data, do a lot of processing analytics, improve my
productivity with it. And that's only possible with technologies like
five G. Welcome to the restless ones. I'm Jonathan Strickland.
I've spent the last fifteen years covering technology and learning
how it works, demystifying everything from massive parallel processing to
(00:47):
advanced robotics and everything in between. Yet it's the conversations
with some of the most forward thinking leaders, those at
the intersection of technology and business that fascinated me the most.
Today I'm speaking with Drga Malatty from Qualcom Technologies. Durga
is on the cutting edge of wireless connectivity and has
(01:09):
spent a quarter of a century creating systems that are
at the very heart of communication and data. I knew
that I was in for a great conversation right from
the start. Before really waiting into the world of five G.
I wanted to learn a bit more about Durga's personal background. Derga,
(01:30):
I just want to start off by saying thank you
for joining us on The Restless Ones. That is a
pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for
having me. We always like to start getting to know
our guest a little bit better. And I was really
curious if you could tell us how you first got
interested in technology in general, and when did you decide
to pursue technology as a career path. Okay, so this
(01:55):
actually goes back all the way to I think middle school.
That was the first time I was like supposed to
you know, a lot of the fun aspects of physics
and doing experiments and tinkering with things was something that
really got me excited. The first time that I built
an electromagnet. We were all used to magnets, but the
idea of using electricity to create magnetism was something that
(02:17):
was so fascinating. I just got hooked. Wow. And to
go from electro magnets all the way into things as
complex as semiconductors. I remember learning about it in high
school and trying to wrap my brain around it and
finding it somewhat challenging. At what point did you really
focus on that as being your career that this was
(02:38):
This wasn't just interesting, but it was something that you
really wanted to pursue professionally. My mom is a math
teacher and my dad is an engineer, so stem was
something that was kind of ingrained in our family. In
any case, from my perspective, I was always fascinated by
the combination of physics and math, but it also became
quite clear to me that applied physics was far more
(02:59):
interesting to me, and from an engineering perspective, the whole
notion of wireless communications and signal processing. It also was
the beginning of the transition from the first generation of
wireless to the second generation cell phones. This was in
the early nineties where cell phones were becoming more mainstream.
(03:20):
It wasn't something that you would just see in a movie,
but it was something that was being used more in
daily lives because back then the phones were much bigger
and all you could do was voice but there was
so much more that you could do. And the other
interesting part was that in the early nineties there was
something else that was going on in parallel, and that
was the birth of modern day internet, and so the
possibilities were just endless. You know, we're talking about voice
(03:44):
using phones and wireless networks, but what if you could
bring in data as well? So it was just a
fascinating field. I also love science and math, and it's
one of the reasons I really love technology, because technology
is the actual manifestation of science and math athen proof
that this stuff works, because obviously if it didn't, the
(04:04):
technology would never work. And it is a thing of
beauty really to see science and mathematics at work and
making things possible. I think a lot of people kind
of lose sight of that, and they just see what
the end result is and they kind of lose appreciation
for sort of the beauty the underlies it all. Completely agree.
(04:25):
One of the sayings that you know I read back
in the day was, I think just touching upon your
point that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic,
and there is something magical about that. It's one thing
to learn a subject, do all the maths behind it,
have the theories behind it, but when you actually see
it working, there's always that moment of wow, I can't
(04:46):
believe this is awesome and that's something that specifically the
case when it comes to wireless communications, the idea that
something is being said or transmitted from a location and
in a completely different location you actually get exactly the
same thing. And I would argue that the bedrock of
violence communications is that confluence of physics and math that
(05:08):
comes together and all the engineering that goes behind it. Well,
anyone who can quote Arthur C. Clerk to me is
top in my book. I'm a huge science fiction fan
as well. Well, what drew you towards the mode of
marrow F technology in particular? How did you start getting
involved in that specific field? You know, in the second
half of my grad school I was focusing a lot
(05:29):
on signal processing, some of the algorithms that are necessary
in base PAN technology to process the signals once they
come through the RF in itself. It was quite clear
to me that I was really interested in data communications
and the signal processing that is needed for data communications.
This is in the late nineties when overall as an
industry we were gradually migrating beyond text. Text messages were
(05:53):
always there, but this is going a little bit beyond that,
and it was quite incredible to even see can we
actually read email on a cell phone. We take it
for granted today, but back then it wasn't very obvious
that you could actually do that in a seamless manner.
So for me, working on the baseman technology was something
that fascinated me quite a bit. The transition towards three
G was happening, the dot com boom, wireless boom, and
(06:16):
this transition from the Internet was taking on in wildline communications,
so there were so many things there, but it became
quite clear to me that base pan processing is going
to be key because there's a lot of sophistication that
we need to bring into the table once you get
past all the analog processing that's done in the outer
front end. And so straight out of grad school i
joined Qualcom. Qualcom was right in the midst of all
(06:39):
the G transitions and making data come into wireless communications,
so it was a natural spot for me. Derek's story
impressed me. It's not often you hear about such a
smooth transition, and before we move on to talk about
the present and future of wireless communications, I thought it
was a good idea to do a quick rundown of
the past because the terms can get confusing in part
(07:01):
because the transitions have been gradual, and sometimes a single
generation has multiple standards like G s M and C
d M A. So in the beginning, we have the
first generation of wireless cellular technology, otherwise known as one G.
This was analog technology that really only supported voice, with
a maximum data speed of just two point four kilobits
(07:22):
per second. The second generation of tech emerged in the
early nineties. We made the switch to digital instead of analog,
boosted the data transfer speeds, and allowed for stuff like
call and text encryption. This is where cell phones really
begin to take off. There was quite a bit of
evolution between two G and three G, which was introduced
(07:42):
in the late nineties, and with three G we had
faster data transmission speeds enough to support tasks like video
calling and mobile web browsing. A decade later, we got
four G with even greater data transmission speeds and support
for a wider variety of services, including HD, mobile tele vision.
All smartphones like the iPhone debuted in the era of
(08:03):
three G. There was really four G connectivity that allowed
the mobile Internet to flourish, and now we're in the
five G era with the potential for incredible data throughput
and low latency, and as Durga points out, these capabilities
really create opportunities well beyond mobile devices. So the birth
of the smartphone was what really made four G tick,
(08:27):
and that's the one that actually continued for another ten years.
So it's all completely based upon mobile broad band. And
as we started looking at it, why stop just at smartphones,
why not have database communications and every single device that
you see around you all kinds of devices, and these
are devices that communicate not just with humans, but also
with each other. And it was with that sort of
(08:50):
thought process that the original vision of five G as
a unifying connectivity fabric for everything. It's not just for smartphones,
it's not just for voice communications or data communications, but
it's all of the above for all kinds of devices.
So it's been a long and very productive and sophisticated journey.
If you kind of think about what we are capable
(09:11):
of doing with five G today, and for those of
us who have been fortunate enough to be part of
the journey from the nineties onwards, it's always quite something.
It still gives me goose bumps, and we are only
getting started at this point in time with five G.
I'm sure We're going to talk a lot about five
G capabilities in our conversation, and honestly, the more I learned,
the more excited I get, because I think for a
(09:33):
lot of people, including myself, the initial messaging that the
mainstream gets, tends to be in that smartphone realm, right,
that that's the five G experience that you're going to
be able to access things faster. But that misses so much.
I see five G playing an enormous role in our
day to day lives, but also an unseen presence that
(09:56):
ends up powering so many of the other technologies that
are going to shape the way we live moving forward.
One of the big questions I had for you then,
in case people aren't familiar, is within the five G picture,
what role does qual Calm play. Yeah, that's a very
important point. So as qual Calm in our heart, we
(10:18):
are an end to end systems company. We're not just
a company that does the chips. It's starting from foundational
fundamental design, starting literally from a white board, proving out
concepts that have never been done before. So if you
just take a look at the complete pipeline, there is
a design cycle that starts way before several years before
(10:40):
we even start seeing any commercialization for that, and by
the time it comes to commercialization, we are focused on
a few key concepts. On five G we power the
MORTEM outive solutions that go into all kinds of devices,
devices that range from smartphones on one hand, two laptops,
fixed wireless access, mobile hotspots, routers, increasingly automobiles where vehicles
(11:05):
now come in you can buy a car with cellular
connectivity inside that and going into from a device perspective
into the infrastructure domain where we provide the MORTEMARTI solutions
that power pay stations as they exist, and there is
an evolution happening on the infrastructure domain as well. So
that's a portion that we are probably you know, more
(11:26):
known from a product standpoint, but it is important too
for everyone to understand that as Qualcom, we do always
come in with an end to end vision. We have
a complete picture of what we want accompletion. We've actually
gone through that process. So because of that, our touch
points are practically everywhere in the ecosystem. We work very
closely with mobile operators who eventually consume the technology that
(11:47):
we build. We don't directly sell into them, but they
consume the technology eventually of what we build with our
direct customers, the O E M s who build these
devices or build the infrastructure, our partners who are either
the infrastructure domain or in the cloud players or in
the actual device Williams themselves. They're also our partners in
terms of doing a lot of interrupt testing, and that's
(12:08):
one of the important aspects of the wireless communications piece.
The ecosystem is gradually growing. If you were to fast
forward from the nineties to where we are today today,
it's a really big tent. Right now. We have industries
who are truly excited and fascinated by the prospects of
five G technology, but they have never deployed anything wireless before.
(12:30):
And I can give you examples, like take manufacturing plants.
What they are interested in is, hey, can I go
ahead and have wireless communications inside so that I can
digitize the entire manufacturing plan, gettle tons of data, do
a lot of processing analytics, improve my productivity with it.
And that's only possible with technologies like five G. You
could do exactly the same thing with large scale utility grids,
(12:55):
especially as one thinks of a mix and match of
you know, the energy assets, you might have data that's
coming in from wind, solar and hydro power, complementing oil
and natural gas and put it all together, there's an
overall grid management, but a lot of it depends upon
data that's constantly streaming in. Once again, five G technology
for utility grids is a fascinating use case in itself.
(13:17):
So there's a lot of these new industries that have
never done anything wireless before, but they are adopting it,
building it, testing it, and so that's the place that
we are right now. There might be instances where maybe
this is not the technology for you, but there's a
lot of instances where this is indeed the technology for you.
And yes, we will do our part in enabling you,
(13:37):
and we can bring others together as well because there
you need them as well. And that's the way that
we actually work for the ecosystem. Conventional thinking says you
have to pay more to get more I want to work.
But Team Obile for Business uses unconventional thinking to deliver
premium benefits for better r o I. From customized fived
(13:58):
solutions to three sixty supports. We help you reach your
business goals right now. I want it now, innovating to
improve business today and tomorrow. That's unconventional thinking from T
Mobile for business capable device required covers not available in
some areas some US require certain planter features c T
mobile dot com. For those who when they hear five G,
(14:23):
I think the two things they think of first, they
think of high bandwidth. Especially if you're just a casual consumer,
you're probably thinking, Oh, that's the thing that will let
me download a series in just a couple of seconds.
The thing that really excites me with this idea of
low latency high bandwidth is the potential for use in
(14:45):
all sorts of applications. So can you talk a little
bit about that, about how the low latency aspect of
five G enables new technologies that just a generation ago
would have been impossible. Know, this is the first generation
in wireless that we are placing some kind of emphasis on,
(15:05):
not just the typical data rates in bandwidth, but latency
is just a responsiveness of the system. You would do
something and you immediately see the response of that. And
I'll give two examples of that where latency matters quite
a lot. The first one is I give this example
earlier of a manufacturing plant. Inside manufacturing plants, especially some
(15:26):
of the more sophisticated ones. There's a lot of industrial
grade ethernet that is used. This is wireline communications. But
you have two machines, you have a controller of a machine.
They're communicating with each other. And what matters, what's paramount
is a command gets sent out and it is received
by the machine on the other end at a very
(15:47):
low latency. Similarly, you have the same machine that is
sending back some heartbeat messages. It must be received like clockwork,
at a certain point in time. And that's a place
where if the object, if you can think of that
happening quite easily on a wire, you kind of expect
that kind of equality of service in a wire. When
(16:07):
we replace those wires with wireless technology, you want to
actually have exactly the same attributes, the same set of features.
So latency matters in industrial equipment, as five G actually
comes into the picture, because that's what it brings to
the table. But what the other thing that it now
does is now as the machines get moved around and
(16:27):
so on, you don't have to necessarily first bring out
the wires, the kind of move it to a different location,
plug it back in, calibrated, and there's a lot of
up and downtime that's associated with this, and you can
actually get past that. So that's a clear application of
where latency matter is quite a bit. The other place
is where you know. Another example, and I'm kind of
(16:49):
deliberately picking a more futuristic example but not that far off,
is two vehicles communicating with each other. There is a
technology in five G called V two X. It's really
vehicles community adating to other vehicles. Imagine a scenario where
every vehicle out there has got this technology and you
have basic safety mechanisms that are actually communicated with each other.
(17:13):
There's a car that's driving in front of you, and
if the driver actually, you know, slams on the brake,
then instead of you just seeing that red light behind
and then realizing that someone just applied the brakes in
front of you, the car actually sends a message saying
I just applied a break. Your car receives it as well,
and it takes all the appropriate measures. So this is
(17:33):
like basic safety, but it's also kind of mission critical
in some sense. So latency matters. Every millisecond matters over there.
Humans take a little bit longer, but your vehicles can
actually react much faster. So this is another example of that.
So these are a few examples where you can immediately
see that it's not so much about tens of gigabits
per second, data rates and so on, but it's all
about latency. I see it also being critical for applications
(17:58):
such as virtual real the and augmented reality. Any case
where you are presenting the user visual information, it has
to be very timely. Otherwise what one with virtual reality,
we all know that if there's any latency, you're bound
to experience motion sickness. You get that virtual motion sickness.
(18:21):
But also with augmented reality, obviously you don't want any latency.
If you are looking at a building looking for a
specific office, you want that information to pop up immediately.
You don't want to be sitting there waiting for it.
Or if you are following directions so that you can
get someplace, you want those turn by turn directions obviously
to show up before you've passed the turn. Obviously, the
(18:44):
metaverse is one of those topics that's been getting a
lot of buzz recently. Obviously, all these companies that are
rushing into it. I imagine that five G connectivity is
going to be absolutely pivotal for the early days of
the metaverse. Absolutely. In fact, that was going to be
my next point on that one. As you go, you know,
(19:04):
beyond these examples that I gave one latency, if you
think about picking up from where you started off with
virtual reality, wherein there is something called as a motion
to photon latency. In other words, like in the physical world,
you move your head, you want to see exactly the
same thing in the virtual world as well, but a
lot of that processing it's being done elsewhere, and so
(19:24):
you want to make sure that the overall latency is
so small that when you move, you actually see everything
else in the virtual world move with you as well.
And that's a very important attribute from coal comp perspective.
We call it as the connected intelligent edge, and there's
like three different words over there, but if you were
to break it down, it's important that connectivity is no
longer you know, a nice to have, It is a requirement.
(19:46):
It is a necessity. You must have connected devices whenever
you have these meadows based devices, whether it's excity devices
or something else. But you also want the devices to
be intelligent enough to do some of the processing inside
the device, but also do some of the processing close
to the edge. So you can actually imagine that maybe
you're in a conference room and you have a processor
(20:08):
that is there inside the conference room, but everyone is
wearing their glasses, and then you have in a remote
conference room somewhere else geographically separated, there's another set of people,
everyone's wearing their extra glasses. You have the processing that's
occurring there. So that's the edge portion of it, where
some of the processing is being done at the edge,
but you also need the devices to be very intelligent.
(20:28):
But you almost kind of take connectivity for a granted.
So connected intelligent edge is something that we are very
focused on, ask wal Kom, and we have been kind
of driving that vision as much as possible, and we
believe that this is going to be the foundation for
the starting point of the journey into the metawords. But
this is the foundation, that's the way that we see it.
I have another quick question here, and that is do
(20:52):
you have any other examples of how five G technology
has been of benefit to your clients. I know you've
taught a little bit in generalities, but are there any,
without necessarily naming names, any specific implementations that you've seen
that have been sort of almost like the killer app
(21:13):
for five G. Well, okay, that's a pretty broad term
over there, but I would like to actually highlight one
thing that did happen in the last two years. It's
just coincidental with the pandemic if you kind of think
about it. The initial five G launchers were in so
spring of was the first set of major announcements coming
out from the US and Korea, and then we had
(21:35):
U S, Korea and Japan, Australia, Europe, and China, the
first six regions which launched five G. But then right
after that we hit the pandemic. That was a point
in time where it was, you know, new frontier for everyone,
no clear rules written as to how do you keep
the productivity of organizations going while everyone is figuring out
(21:58):
how to work remotely. And one thing that happened is
that the five G features and new capabilities and two
devices and two networks continued quite smoothly actually in spite
of the pandemic. I think as an industry, we were
able to immediately bring in some of the technology as
solutions to enable people from working from wherever they are.
(22:22):
Everyone started paying attention to what kind of connectivity do
they have at home or wherever they are working from.
And so connectivity was no longer a luxury but a necessity.
It was important not just to have some bare bones,
but high speed connectivity. We started thinking about broadband services,
which is not just something that you find in urban
(22:44):
areas or even suburban areas, but even in rural areas.
If you take a look at the digital divide between
the rural areas, in the urban areas and the rural areas,
the data rates that you get is a fraction of
what you actually end up seeing in the urban and
dense urban areas. An example that, by the way, is
distance education. In urban areas, the kids actually went back
home and they are now in zoom connectivity. But kids
(23:07):
in rural areas, all they really need is the connectivity
and they can have access to the same high quality education.
They don't necessarily need teachers physically present in the schools
right there. Now, the quality of education and locations is
determined not necessarily by the quality of teachers who are
in that local area, by by the quality of the
(23:29):
bandwidth that you have. So we started working a lot
on fixed wireless access services, working with operators everywhere in
the US to see if you can do rural connectivity,
and we were able to get to gig a bit
data rates in rural Wisconsin, rural Iowa, and West Virginia.
So I wanted to give an example of something as
a technology that actually has the ability to transform. From
(23:51):
my perspective, fixed wireless has been a huge success story
that we don't talk about a lot, but it's actually
coming up very nicely in five G. This goes beyond
smartphones but really about transforming a lot of communities and
a lot of industries. I love that. As the son
of two educators, that speaks to me, especially the son
(24:12):
of an educator who worked in a rural school in Georgia.
Out of curiosity for those companies out there that might
be lagging a bit behind in the adoption of these
high speed wireless technologies, what sort of your sales pitch,
What do you end up really focusing on when you're
talking about the capabilities of wireless. I think with a
(24:36):
lot of these industries that you know, you can take
the mining sector as an example, or in the early
days of our discussions with the manufacturing sector, I think
the first thing that I always do is listen. I
want to listen to the problems first before I actually
saying that, yeah, this is a solution. This is not
a solution for everything, but I want to make sure
that I listened to what they have and guide them
(24:57):
towards the entire process of what it aches to adopt
the technology as well. Maybe five G is the right
technology for you, but you know what, here are the
things that you might have to do A B, C,
D N E. We will help you along the way.
And by the way, as a part of this journey,
you should start getting gradually involved into some of the
standardization bodies as well, because the standards, like five G
(25:18):
standards is not something that a small group of people
decide somewhere and then publish it. It's an open system
wherein anyone who wants to adopt five G can come
into the standards body and say, hey, these are the
requirements that I need in my industry. So when you
place those requirements into it, a couple of years downstream,
(25:39):
you'll have a new standard that will come out which
will have all of those requirements baked in as well.
So we've spent some time also explaining to people that
you should be a part of this coalition as well.
So today, if you take a look at the five
G standards bodies, it's quite common to see those who
are from the automobile industry, those who are from manufacturing industry,
(25:59):
and so on. They've never been in these kinds of
standards parties before, but now they're an integral part of it.
So it's a combination of yes, we have solutions, but
we are also here to help you and guiding you
through the entire process. You'll have to do some of
the work yourself, but we can bring other partners into
the picture over here and make sure that you're part
of you know, the standards as a part of like
(26:21):
giving in requirements into the SPIX. I think that's fascinating,
the idea of this being a collaborative effort to come
to these standards so that it isn't like some secret
cabal handing down directives that everyone must follow, but rather
it really is an effort to say, what are your
needs so that we can build that in and then
(26:43):
it falls to companies like Qualcom to create the technologies
that actually meet the needs of the end users, whether
it's a company or a person who wants their technology
to all speak together without any latency. One for well,
I have a very easy question for you. I'm sure
(27:03):
it's one that you'll quickly be able to answer. What's next. Well,
you know, five G is now about three years old
and entering into the fourth years, so we're about I
would argue that, you know, thinking about what I said earlier,
there's a ten year journey towards the next D and
so on. We don't start thinking about the fact we're
working on the next year. We just keep working on
(27:24):
new technology till it becomes sufficiently different from the previous one,
and then you call it the next year. So yeah,
obviously what's going to come next is five G advanced,
and we're not that far from it, by the way.
But one thing that's happening is that as five G
is in a position to generate lots of data, there's
also a lot of work that's coming up from another
(27:46):
important technology, and that's AI, the ability to harness and
process all the data to come out with something meaningful.
So you kind of have a situation wherein five G
and a I kind of feed off each other. Five
G generates a lot of data that helps AI. AI
then helps five G in a different way. And so
the combination of five G plus AI is something that
(28:07):
is quite important for us. And just a couple of
months back we introduced the very first AI based processing
techniques as a part of our five G solutions into
smartphones actually, and so this is something that's going to
be growing quite a bit, so really looking forward to it.
But yeah, that's about the kind of a way that
we are thinking about things right now. I couldn't let
(28:29):
Durga go without asking him one more thing. What is
the question I did not ask you that you kind
of wish I had asked you. One usually thinks of
five G as something that is a premium technology, something
that's there only for some very expensive devices out there.
(28:51):
There is a lot of work on what is known
as reduced capability so that there is a complete portfolio
of solutions in five G. You know, there's a one
size fits all five G. Five G goes all the
way from hundred megabits second to like a gigabit per second.
Another point that you know, we didn't touch upon as
much is the importance of reliability. Reliability of communication and
(29:13):
what is known as sometimes mission critical communication. You're sending
a command out there. It's important that it is something
that's received very quickly, but it's also important that it
is received extremely reliably. You're not watching a video where
maybe there's once in a while there's a glitch and
you're like, that's okay, that's fine. No, No, this is
like a mission critical message. It must be received, and
reliability is another attribute that five G is bringing to
(29:36):
the table. It's quite important whether it's first responders, or
whether it is some of this manufacturing equipment, or even
in those vehicular communications. Reliability of communication is an important
attribute as well. Turga, thank you so much for your time.
We greatly appreciate it. We've really enjoyed having this conversation.
I had a lot of fun. Thanks a lot, Jonathan.
(30:02):
My conversation with DRGA really drove home that we're living
in a world that just a short while ago was
the stuff of science fiction, and that so much of
our world is dependent upon these invisible connections that carry
data to and from devices all around us. It's not
just that almost everyone in the world is carrying around
(30:25):
a combination of a computer, communications device, a camera, and
an entertainment center just in their pocket. It's that we
have this back end capability to support these devices and
provide incredible experiences. Moreover, we need to remember that that
same back end capability can do so much more than
(30:45):
provide opportunities for personal communication. It is a foundational technology
that creates endless possibilities. Whether we're thinking about a personalized
experience like exploring a virtual environment, or a communication fabric
that enables fleets of cars to coordinate with one another,
it all boils down to five G paving the way.
(31:07):
I can't wait for you to hear more conversations with
the forward thinkers, innovators, and well restless ones who are
leveraging tech to build the future. Make sure to tune
into the Restless Ones every other week for a new episode.
I'll see you then. T Mobile for Business knows companies
(31:29):
want more than a one size fits all approach to
support I want the world, So we provide three sixty
support customized to your business. From discovery through post deployment.
You'll get a dedicated account team and expertise from solutions
engineers and industry advisors. Already right now, I want it now.
(31:49):
Three six support that's customized for your success. That's unconventional
thinking from t mobile for business,
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