January 15, 2023 • 35 mins
Enjoy the audio experience for Shade Studios' first feature documentary on Jeff Staple, a legend in the streetwear and design industries.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm reading this urban dictionary straight off what Jeff says.
These are not my words. Jeff is the perfectest human
on the entire planet, best boyfriend of all time, funniest
person of all time. His girlfriend loves him infinitely times
more than he loves her, no matter what. Amazing human being,
(00:20):
super nice, kind, very patient. Geez, how is he so patient?
I don't even know. He is too perfect to put
into these words. So here's some gibberish words. Jeff is
so perfect? What the fuck? How does he even function?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'll take that.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
There are three types of people in this world.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
People you know, people you don't know, and people you're
going to want to know.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
It's these unique individuals that we shine a light upon
it in them, perhaps find a reflection of ourselves. I'm
RISA Hill and this is Silhouette.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
In this two part episode, we shine a light on
Jeff Staple, founder of Staple Design, a multifaceted agency based
in and on New York City. In part one, we
discussed the origins of Staple Design and how Jeff became
an influential figure in streetwear, an almost two hundred billion.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Dollars a year industry.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
In part two, we take a more casual approach as
we get some insight into Jeff's personal life and his
opinions on street culture as a whole.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
This is Jeff Staples. Silhouette.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Can't believe we are in Staples office. I feel like
this is a gold mine for a child. You probably
wouldn't want to have it here.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
No, I know. Yeah, welcome to my office. We're in Midtown,
New York City. This is the construction outside in classic
New York moment, you know, scaffolding and dudes outside. I
don't know what they're doing, but yeah, this is the
This is the office for our clothing line, Staple. I
have another office in Soho which is for our creative
(02:32):
agency read art department.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So shall we start from the beginning?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Sure, we want to talk about your roots.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And your upbringing and your background.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I guess first and foremost, I'm a son of immigrant
parents from China immigrated to the state of New Jersey
just about forty five minutes outside of New York City.
They had a business where they brought in like soy
sauce and fortune cookies and then distributed them to local
(03:03):
Chinese restaurants. So they were like an import exporter of
Chinese food, and they just were like struggling to survive
in the great American dream that all immigrants try to
aspire to. I'm an only child, me too, Oh cool. Yeah,
it was tough because they worked their asses off. I
barely even like got to see them all that much.
So and with no siblings, it was like just basically
(03:26):
raising myself.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
You didn't actually grow up in this area and your
New York City. Do you think you would actually be
where you are today if you say, maybe you grew
up in a small, tiny town.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think environmentalism, like where your environment
is has a lot to do with what you become
in a sense, you know. I think conversely, on one end,
I know a lot of people that grew up like
in Manhattan and like you know, born and raised New Yorkers,
and that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're going to be
(04:01):
quote unquote successful or great. It's not like an entree
into like success, you know. In fact, I would say
that sometimes New Yorkers sort of feel like privileged or
entitled because they feel like they've got the card of
like I'm a true New Yorker. I'm already fifty percent
of the way there right, Whereas if you're slightly outside
(04:22):
of that, then you feel like you have to earn
the respect of being a New Yorker or earn your
way into the you know, the mindset of what it
means to be a New Yorker, and that creates hustle,
that sort of like I need to prove myself kind
of thing versus like I'm born here, i was raised there.
I'm going to prove shit to nobody mentality exactly. Yeah,
(04:42):
so there's pros and cons to everything. My parents, from
a very young age brought me to work and they
would just be like, just go roam the city and
come back at five. When we leave, they were just like,
just don't die.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Don't die, just come love you too much.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
And I got to experience, I mean, bless them because
I got to experience lot of amazing ship in New
York City back then. You know, like this was like
in the early eighties dating myself, but this is like
the eighties of New York City.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
You know, I look like you're from the eighties, thank you,
not one on your skin.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Let me tell you it's that Chinese blood. But this
is the birth of hip hop in New York, you
know what I mean, Like that that thing you hear
about where like you can buy mixtapes from the DJ
out the back of a trunk. I remember getting conned
in a in a game of like three card montegue,
you know. And I remember like being young and getting conned,
(05:35):
and I was really upset. But then later on I
was like, it's kind of cool that, Like at a
young age, I got hustled. I realized that everyone watching
the three card money is part.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Of the They're all working together, all working together.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yes, that's when I learned. I was like, oh, they're
all working together, like you got.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Me my mom, Like, mom, these people were dishonest.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I got mugged. I got mugged, I got muggs. Yeah wow,
Madison Square Gardens. So but I also got like stabbed.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
My gosh, you got stabbed.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, when they robbed you? Yes, was it because you
didn't want to give your wallet?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It's because after I gave him my wallet, I ran
after him in like a heated moment. He went into
a building, went into an elevator, and then I was
with him now in an elevator.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Like Renlan's just rushing. You become a next James Bond.
Basically in your mind, he got me.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
He stabbed me, and then I came out of the elevator.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
My gosh, where did he stab you?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
He stapped me here, but he didn't make contact. He
went through all things. Thank God for like triple xl
hip hop clothing, because I was wearing like my I
think I was wearing like, yeah, my periellous America jacket,
and like he just went like this and like went
through my whole thing but didn't make contact with him.
I was just like so lucky, so so just overall
(06:50):
classic New York City shit. You know that I am
blessed that I was able to experience.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Let's jump into your brand.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
What would you say defines you and your brand itself?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Consistency. That's the first word that comes to mind. We
are embarking on the twenty fifth anniversary of the founding
of this brand. By me, the secret to getting to
the quarter century mark is not being the dopest, flyest,
hottest thing on earth. It's not. It's like it's a marathon.
It's not a sprint, you know what I mean. Yeah,
(07:30):
everyone wants to be like, you know, blazing hot and
like the thing that everyone talks about, and trust me,
I do too, and we've been there multiple times. And
it's more like surfing where it's like you just have
to like ride waves, you know, and it doesn't matter
who you are, but you're gonna have down cycles. And
(07:50):
the secret to longevity and success is how is not
how you get to the ups, it's how you handle
the downs. When I started the brand, I wanted it
to be generational, like I wasn't aiming to be hot.
I was aiming for like generations of my family and
(08:12):
people to be like staple Man like that is. It
was such a thing, you know, And I think the
beautiful part about it is that entering our twenty fifth year,
it doesn't feel long at all.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
For my years, twenty five years is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Like, let me put in the perspective, the majority of
our customer base wasn't born when I printed the first
Staple shirt. I started it in ninety seven out of college,
you know. But it's crazy that I hear just kids
being like I hear kids saying like, I love your
brand because my dad rocks your brand. So like it's
now it's generating. It is literally generational, like it's passed
(08:49):
down to.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Like I love that though.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, dad showing their kids about what they love wearing
and they pass it down to their kids exactly.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, So that's a that's where we're at right now.
And when you ask me what I think about what
I personally think about the brand, I'm sure if you
ask one hundred people on the street when they think
about Staple, everyone will have a different thing, whether it's
a sneaker or like creative agency or my podcast or
whatever it is. But for me, it's just like left right, left, right, left,
one step at a time, consistency, you know, That's that's
(09:20):
all it is. People want overnight successes, but they don't
understand that, Like, even when you see an overnight success,
there was probably years and years of like grind that
went into that. It's just that you discovered them overnight.
But there's a lot of preparation that went into it
before that, you know.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
So let's bring it back to two thousand and five.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I know, Okay, it's probably the question that everyone always asks.
This was a pinnacle moment in time. I mean, this
is probably one of the craziest drops for Nike as
well as yourself to ever happen in history.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, yeah, there to put more.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
Friends and going on in the city right now, a
special sneaker made just for New York's in such I demand.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
People are fighting to own a Parodi's thing to be
as too.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Michael Palmer and shows us how Nike's Pigeon Dunk has better's.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Blind som video shows the scene outside the Reed Space
store on the Lower East Side yesterday when nearly one
hundred self proclaimed sneaker heads got into a showing matches.
They waited for the doors to open and the chance
of buy one of only twenty pairs of Pigeons that
limited edition.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Of course, this is the infamous shoe. This is the
this is a Nike Pigeon Dunk. We dropped it in
five It was a really interesting time in sneaker culture
prior to this dropping, because it was still a subculture
at that point. When I say that, I mean like
there was like maybe a couple of thousand kids that
were like into sneakers in a really obsessive way. I
(10:45):
was personally into sneakers big time since the sixth grade,
so like before the term sneaker head was even invented,
I was like already collecting shoes for some strange reason,
not because of resell not because of hype, not because
of flexing on the ground, because none of those things
were invented yet. It was purely out of like the
strange obsession with the design and the creation of sneakers.
(11:07):
That was really what it came down to for me.
People think that the Pigeon Dunk was like the one
and only thing that I ever did. But of course,
if you think about it, Nike doesn't just call people
and be like, what kind of Nike do you want
to do?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Like you imagine old phone book and spin the pages.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's just a stable this guy.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, we had done a lot of things up until
this point, and we had done a lot of things
with Nike up until this point actually that a lot
of people don't really aren't familiar with and don't know about.
So this Pigeon Dunk was probably like our seventh or
eighth shoe design for Nike, not to mention other design
work like graphic design, apparel design, internal presentation work like
(11:50):
that is like in the dozens and dozens of work
that we've done. Do you want to know the story
of how okay?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So I was.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I was the art director for a mag that's still
around today. It's called The Fader magazine. It's a very
prominent music, fashion culture magazine. I was the art director
of it for the first twenty issues. So like I
designed completely the first twenty issues of The Fader. I
went to NYU for journalism before I went to Parsons
for design, So I have like a journalistic bug in me,
(12:18):
and so I was allowed to pitch stories to The Fader,
you know, every once in a while. I wanted to
do an article about why Nike in Japan at the
time was releasing limited edition shoes and there was a
small group of people that would buy shoes in Japan.
And when I say that, I don't mean Amazon one
click pay, I mean fly on a plane with empty bags,
(12:39):
go to Japan, buy as many shoes as they could
fly back, and then sell them with a markup. This
is the birth of recess.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
So that was the birth of reason.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yes, it was like Nike in America was making stuff
for foot locker and athletes' foot Yeah, Nike in Japan
was making these limited edition shoes, one of which was
they were working with a store called at Most.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
At the time, okay, And.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I wanted to understand, like, why is a billion dollar
company making thirty six pairs of shoes for one store
in Japan when now they see that there's demands happening
here in America. Why don't they just make more of them?
They're a billion dollar capitalistic company. Why are they doing
this thing? And so I pitched a story to the
publishers of The Fader, and they're like, that's an interesting story.
All right, we're gonna send you to Japan and research this.
(13:27):
And I had no leads, zero leads. I don't speak
Japanese at all. Just landed in Japan, started going into
retail stores and I would just be like, pull a
shoe off the shelf. I'll be like, who sells you
this shoe? And they're like what, And I'm like, I
come from the Fader magazine. I'd bring a copy of
The Fader. I'm doing an article about Nike. Who sells
you this shoe? I would work my way up this
investigative ladder to the point where I finally got to
(13:50):
the guy who decides which shoe gets made in how
many limited quantities, and which story goes into We sat
down at the headquarters of Nike Japan, and we conducted
an interview about why he did this. He's like, I
want to get you out to Beaverton, which is the
headquarters of Nike Global. He's like, we should just talk
and I was like, yes, we absolutely should. And at
(14:10):
that time, you know, Beaverton, Oregon was like the Wizard
of Oz like it was like this mecha of a
place that a sneakerhead could never actually go to. That's
how my relationship with Nike started. But a funny story
is when I met with him, he's like, you know,
I should introduce you to another guy who we work
with in Tokyo. He helps me decide which shoes to
(14:32):
pick and what colors to make them and what fabrics
to make them. So he's like, my, he doesn't work
for Nike, but he's like a consultant of ours, and
you should meet with him too and put him in
the magazine. It's like, great, I would love to and
he's like, yeah, his name's Giroti Fujuar and he owns
this brand called Fragment. So the next day it's a
subtle name.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
He brought hip hop back to Japan.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yes, he brought hip hop.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Funny is from New York, Yes, and then.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
He brought He also brought punk rock culture through Vivian
West voted Malcolm McLaren from London to Japan. So he's
the ultimate, you know, culture curator. So we had our interview.
After that interview, he's like, oh, why don't you come
over to my house for dinner? So I was like, okay, amazing,
you know. So I go to his house for dinner
that night. A couple of people are there. It's like
(15:17):
a small party, a small gathering of people, and I
see on the couch, I see James Jebia, who owns Supreme.
He's just sitting on the couch. Then I go to
his backyard and there's like a guy like, you know,
grilling shrimp. Turns around, it's Eric Clapton grilling shrimp and
(15:38):
like chicken. Right then another guy walks in. I don't
know who he is. He introduces himself. He's like, oh,
I'm Hiroki. I was like, oh what do you do.
He's like, oh, I just started this brand. It's called
vis Vin, you know. And I was like, and you know,
I didn't know who these people were, but like then
I come to realize, like Wow, I was just at
dinner with Eric Clapton, who I knew. James Jebbia I
knew also because not only did he own Supreme, but
(15:59):
he also was manager and owner of Union in New
York and he was the manager of the Stusey New
York City store, so I knew him from just being downtown.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And then this guy who was about to start a
brand called Visban walks in, you know, so like immediately
I was like injected, No, not at all, And that
was just like, you know, some people will say, like
I've cross examined myself on this many many times. Some
people will say like, You're so lucky that you were there, right, Like, yeah,
I am lucky in a way, but I also don't
(16:31):
forget Pitch the fader on this story got them to
approve me to go out there, and everything I had
to align. I had to hustle my way up, ask
questions that didn't have answers to I had no bearings
at all, worked my way up, found myself into this yes,
lucky position, but many many people would have stopped at
(16:51):
even asking to go. This is the snowball effect or
or you know, or the butterfly effect. Whatever, But like
you just take one pebble and you just flick it,
and then you just let it roll and just go
and just let it go. The worst part is when
people are paralyzed by the options of like what if
I flick it into this when nothing happens? What if
(17:14):
I fail? What if it blows up and I can't
handle it? Like, why don't you just fucking jump and
see what happens.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
What's interesting now that I'm hearing you talk about your
experience in Japan, is this kind of the starting point
of collabs?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Would you say, there's this thing called like work for
hire or design work, and then there's collaboration, and there's
a very fine line between the two. Basically that fine
line is like, we're gonna give you money to design
something for us, and you have to be quiet about
it and walk away, take your check and shut up.
That's designed work for hire?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Collab is put your signature here.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, So whether it shoes it at most that you
were talking about.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Were they able to put their branding?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Okay, so it was just give that yes, pairs of
shoes okay?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Interesting, yes, yes, And these shoes that I designed early
for Nike, like the Navigation Pack, the Nordic Pack, the
Cortes laser, the air Rift laser. These are shoes that
I designed before the word collaboration was born. It was
worked for hire that gave me money to design them.
Here these are two other ones that I had a
hand in designing that are not collaborative. They're just designed
(18:24):
for hire. Yeah. Yeah, this was the first one where
they said you can put your stamp on it. Yeah.
I could have put my signature on I could have
put my full name on it. But I was already
because I had a clothing line. I was developing a
mascot and a logo for the clothing line at the
same time. When Nike was like, we want you to
design a shoe dedicated to New York City, right, I
(18:47):
was like, I'm already designing a mascot dedicated to New
York City and it's where my clothing line it hadn't
even come out yet. Wow, what if this was the
launching platform for this logo? You know? And uh, it
seemed too perfect to me. But then when I pitched
it to Nike, because they are expecting like, oh, we
(19:10):
can't wait, So what do you gots that's your liberty done.
So like the Empires, like the and I was like, pigeon,
these dudes are from Beaverton, Oregon. They have hawks. The
things that you think are you know, represent New York.
You think that because you don't live in New York.
(19:31):
If you live in New York, you understand what a
pigeon means. Now they had to take my word for
it because none of them lived in New York, right,
So they're like, well, I mean, we chose you to
design this, so I guess we're just gonna trust you.
And yeah, thanks and kudos to Nike for like, there
was no design change at all. This was this was
my illustrator, cad and this was the sample. There was
(19:53):
no like, can you tweet your pigeon? Looks like they
literally like, I guess we'll have to try us too.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah. And so now when you look at the sneaker riot,
the New York Post cover, the news, all the you know,
things that happened from that, you could argue that none
of that would have happened if they meddled in the
design process, if they wanted to make it more accessible
and knowledgeable for like outside New Yorkers. But they were
just like, let's trust the artists that we asked to
(20:23):
do this and see what happens. That's how history got made.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
What is your favorite food to eat that in the
city here? Obviously we know Chinese is better, and.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Discussion Chinese and Canada just destroyed. So like, if you're
gonna have Chinese, just wait to go to Toronto and
Vancouver Toronto. I travel a lot, and there are certain
foods that New York just has nailed that no matter
how hard another city tries, they can't replicate it. So
the dollar slice, the dollar slice is like, you.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Know, I've had many drunken nights getting my dollar Slice.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And then the other thing is the New York City
bagel is also something that can't be replicated. Actually, Montreal
makes a dope bagel, it's a totally different species, but
the New York City bagel is classic. And they say
that it's the New York City water that makes the
pizza and the bagel so good, which is why even
if you replicate the entire kitchen in another city, the
(21:37):
water is different.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
It's different.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I don't want to step in this, guys. One thing
about being in the city too is h washing that's
like when you're having the worst day of your life,
right you seven, your day is over.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So yeah, so those are the New York City staples
I think.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I mean, obviously, New York is kind of the cultural
capital of the world, so you're always gonna find the
best of the best in New York.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
This is where all my wedding shoots happened, my big weddings.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Fake.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I've been married, like times married.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
You ever married a fake you know, husband, but then
gone out on a real date with your then fake.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Husband with my Now, no, you never dated.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I've never dated.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I've dated a model before, but not one that you
shot with.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Not one that I've shot with.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
That really cute if you got married and can you.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Imagine and then we actually really got we already have
our picture.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's a rom com right there, that's.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Like some.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Way to do it right already already gone.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
We say we photos.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I had a tailor in London make my wife and
I like our wedding outfits. They're made out of like
Nike Tech Pak Performance Police. So our whole tuxedo was
made out of Nike Techtically still like they're super light.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
I like their tech police. It's really well. It's also
extremely stretch stretching.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Right. I wore white, white Air Force ones, and my
wife wore Cortezes because she's from La, so we had
the uptown Cortes.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
That is a very La seeker. I think it's actually
snowing the off of this. We're gonna have a white
Christmas everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Ye, it's so strange.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It's like Hollywood snow.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Yeah, it is like Hollywood s I feel like we
literally have.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
A snow machine that's happening.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
This is very cool.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
This is when all the secret heads freak out and
they need to go get plastic bags for their shoes.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Right, ridiculous. I gotta wear your shoes.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Gotta go get some zip like bags.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I feel like I could just sit on a table
somewhere and just people.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Watch people's feet.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah. Do you like identify people when you meet them
first by the shoes that they wear.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
They're going to see an Air Force one in white?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Like what else?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Is it really like a young teen female thing?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
To wear white white Air Force ones? Right?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
And women just you know what, I've realized they don't
like to.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Cover their ankles.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, so if they can choose silhouettes, they're not going
to really go for like an air Jordan one high, right,
They would prefer a low just because it shortens them.
When you go, I'm so tall, I won't take anything
that sort of makes me look normal.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Is it here? Oh yeah, it's not lid yet.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
They haven't lit it yet.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
This is like we're being tourists.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It's fine.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
So what's your go to seeker right now that you
like to wear that?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
As I've seen the Debie's hat. No, these are not
like go Tos coy. Yeah, they're good, I gotta say
right now, my go to is.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Crocs, Crocs, grateful Dad's No, sorry, Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
I got those one. Some ones actually smell like the chicken.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Those are really rare.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, so I got a pair of those and they
are so comfortable.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Jealous. Yeah, I mean during COVID Crocs just like took over.
You know, they were like the go tos, And my
instinct is to put them on when I go out,
But then I'm like, no, I do have to represent exactly.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, you're like that would kind of be at.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Home attempt to try to like put something good on you.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Know, where do you think females fit into the culture
(26:06):
and where do you see it going into the future,
because I do think that women are starting to have
a bigger presence.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
Definitely, the brands are aware of it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I mean, I think you touched on it earlier when
you said the goal is actually to me like genderless,
like it's not about male or female, but for better
or for worse. Street culture, in my opinion, is sort
of born out of skate culture, hip hop culture, and sports.
It's the marriage of those three things that created street culture.
(26:38):
And those three things were all male dominated, you know,
cultures as well, so it makes sense that street culture
starts out dominated by male and then now we're in
an age I think currently where there's finally recognition of
what females are able to do with this clothing that
is oftentimes made by and for males, but females are
(26:58):
able to take it and create the style and you know,
add new trends to it as well. Sneaker brands now
their number one priority is the female demographic. And so
to me, like it's coming up where I feel like
very soon, like in the next three years. I think
when you go to Nike dot com Ordidas dot com,
Like there won't be men and women's sections anymore. We'll
(27:20):
just get there and.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
You'll be like a kind of sex.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, because I don't think there should be like, oh,
that's the best female design sneaker of the year, Like
why do you even like why can't it just be the.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Best best design?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Because even you know, with secret releases, I hate sometimes
when it's a woman release and I feel like sometimes
they're really thinking, Okay, how do we make this extremely feminine.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Versus why don't we just put a good color on
the scene.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah. Have you ever heard of the term shrink it
and pink it? The old mentality was you take of
men's shoe, shrink it and put pink on it. And
now you ever a women's shoe shoe, don and pink it. Yep,
that's how you made women's shoes.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
So I think it's it's there. We're right at the precipice,
you know. I think a great example is actually recently,
you know, the Sekai nikes that have come out right
and the success of them both on a sneaker hype
level but also on a mainstream level. Right there, I
see like regular dudes who are not sneaker heads love
this shoe. They don't know anything about Sakai. They just
(28:17):
want this shoe, right, is a female right Nike, And
hence the public was not like Bravo to a female
designer on making this great female lead shoe, Like, no,
it's just.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
Don't when you look at it.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
The colors are great. Yep, it's not like a bubblegum pink.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Sometimes it's a little intimidating when somebody's asking, well, what's
your secret collection, what's your first shoe that you had?
Speaker 5 (28:45):
How many shoes you have?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And whenever I go on panels, I think one thing
that I talk about is breaking down those barriers.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
Shouldn't be so competitive.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
No, you know, everybody should be able to be a
part of this, and I don't think that there should
be guidelines as to what makes you a sneaker.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Right right, I agree. In fact, I'm going to flip
the script and like when I hear someone say I
have three pairs of shoes, I'm like, Bravo, Like that
is aspirational to get your whole curation down to like minimalists,
these three you know, Like I almost feel stupid that
I have so many because I can't decide. Back in
(29:20):
the day, I used to go to like these these
sneaker stores of New York. They're like old school. One
was called Vim, one was called Model's. Yeah, Like I
would literally go in the bargain basement, the bottom row
thirty nine ninety nine on markdown, put it on, and
then when you walk the streets, people are like, yo,
what are those? It looks so fly the way you
(29:41):
haven't coordinated. I'm like, yeah, this is VIM, Modell's bargain basement.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Then way to do it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So it's not about getting the most hype stuff.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
One of the next questions I want to ask you
was where do you see yourself.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Being in ten years?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Ten years obviously.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
Looking like twenty four is still probably.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, I'll look at twenty nine. The secret for me
is I don't really look that far ahead, to be
quite honest. Sure, I want to know next year that
we're still in business, that employees will have bonuses and
they'll be paid in YadA, YadA YadA. But I don't
really put too much stress on myself or even put
benchmarks on like I want to have this many millions,
(30:28):
and I want to have this many employees and this
many stores in ten years. Life is just too short,
you know, to even think about that. I don't dwell
on the past. I don't think about the future. I
just literally want to live in the present as much
as possible, you know, And if you repeat that level
of thinking over and over every day. This is what
(30:49):
I meant when I said left right, left right, Because
if you're just concerned with the present every day, then
you multiply that together and you will have longevity, You'll
have sustainability, you'll have a life legacy, you know what
I mean. But if you're like, in twenty five years,
I better be doing this, or in two years or
five years, you better be doing this, and you know,
shit happens. You're not always going to hit your goals,
(31:09):
and that's kind of demoralizing for me. This is how
I think anyway. I'm not saying everyone needs to think
this way. But if I keep putting benchmarks in front
of myself and I miss them, I'll feel bad. And
you know, I've gone through a lot of experiences in
my life where I realized that tomorrow is not promised,
and so like, I just want to live each day
to the fullest. People are like, oh, so you don't
care about like, you know, your your family's health in
(31:31):
the future, Like you don't have a savings account. No,
it's not living reckless. There's a difference between not stressing
out and worrying about the future and also being present
in the moment.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I want to move on to Sesame Street because I
was always fan as a child. Okay, and I saw
that you did a Sesame Street collab.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Pretty amazing because you like Sesame Street grounds, I do
that for everyone learn their abcson one two three is
from Sesame Street, right.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Cookie Monster always just made me want to eat a cookie.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yet one ye, me too. And to create your own
brand rooted in counterculture really, you know, rooted in sort
of anti establishment and people not thinking that you could succeed,
you know, having an underdog brand and then getting to
a point where like this brand that you grew up
with is now you know, collaborating with us to create
(32:22):
a whole collection with and I remember in one of
our first meetings, I threw out this crazy idea where
I was like, we have a pigeon and you guys
have big bird, and we both have birds as our
main mascots. Could we have Big Bird wearing a pigeon
outfit and he's got a hoodie that he puts on
and he's got a pigeonhead.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We totally and we.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Hype beasted him out, and then Elmo got jealous, and
so Elmo wanted Yeah, So we gave Almo just another
incredible benchmark for the brand. It's really important to show
young people and kids that, like, you know, this is
bigger than just sneakers in fashion, you can make, you know,
clothes for kids. You could have it be inspired by
(33:06):
things that you were growing up on. I was really
proud of that one.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
About the ecosystem of the secret streetwork culture. You've got
your botters, you have your resellers.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Do you think in the future this is only going
to increase?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I used to always say that the bubble was going
to burst one day and resell and these inflated prices
and bots was going to just burst and everyone was
going to go back to normal buying shoes for eighty
nine ninety nine plus tags. You know, But it just
keeps ballooning and keeps growing and growing, and it doesn't
look like there's any end in sight. And it's a
game of supplying demand.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So as long as the sneaker brands and the culture
curators continue to increase the population of people who are
into sneakers, and as long as the sneaker brands either
are regulating the quantity or can't keep up with demand, right,
and the first number keeps growing, you're gonna have people
that are willing to pay one point two five two
(34:08):
x three x the original price because there's a shortage
of it. That's just simple supplying demand law of economics, right.
I think it's gonna be a while five plus years
before we see some sort of like regula like regulation
in terms of like deflation of like the inflated prices.
But a lot of things will have to happen for
that to occur.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Well, I can't wait to see.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I know that we didn't say where you would be
in ten years from now, but I can't wait to
see where your company world peaks.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Obviously, you are a true success and.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
You know what you do, and I mean, my goodness,
you've got like what FORTI five businesses I feel like,
and keep track you can keeping Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Jeff is going to own half of New York City.
That is my intuition. That's my prediction.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
That's what's going to happen. There you go. Cool. Well,
thank you again for this. This is so much fun.
You fed me being on a stage. This is the
best interview I've ever done.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Now it's nap time, right, Yeah,
I'm reading this urban dictionary straight off what Jeff says.
These are not my words. Jeff is the perfectest human
on the entire planet, best boyfriend of all time, funniest
person of all time. His girlfriend loves him infinitely times
more than he loves her, no matter what. Amazing human being,
(00:20):
super nice, kind, very patient. Geez, how is he so patient?
I don't even know. He is too perfect to put
into these words. So here's some gibberish words. Jeff is
so perfect? What the fuck? How does he even function?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'll take that.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
There are three types of people in this world.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
People you know, people you don't know, and people you're
going to want to know.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
It's these unique individuals that we shine a light upon
it in them, perhaps find a reflection of ourselves. I'm
RISA Hill and this is Silhouette.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
In this two part episode, we shine a light on
Jeff Staple, founder of Staple Design, a multifaceted agency based
in and on New York City. In part one, we
discussed the origins of Staple Design and how Jeff became
an influential figure in streetwear, an almost two hundred billion.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Dollars a year industry.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
In part two, we take a more casual approach as
we get some insight into Jeff's personal life and his
opinions on street culture as a whole.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
This is Jeff Staples. Silhouette.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Can't believe we are in Staples office. I feel like
this is a gold mine for a child. You probably
wouldn't want to have it here.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
No, I know. Yeah, welcome to my office. We're in Midtown,
New York City. This is the construction outside in classic
New York moment, you know, scaffolding and dudes outside. I
don't know what they're doing, but yeah, this is the
This is the office for our clothing line, Staple. I
have another office in Soho which is for our creative
(02:32):
agency read art department.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So shall we start from the beginning?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Sure, we want to talk about your roots.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And your upbringing and your background.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I guess first and foremost, I'm a son of immigrant
parents from China immigrated to the state of New Jersey
just about forty five minutes outside of New York City.
They had a business where they brought in like soy
sauce and fortune cookies and then distributed them to local
(03:03):
Chinese restaurants. So they were like an import exporter of
Chinese food, and they just were like struggling to survive
in the great American dream that all immigrants try to
aspire to. I'm an only child, me too, Oh cool. Yeah,
it was tough because they worked their asses off. I
barely even like got to see them all that much.
So and with no siblings, it was like just basically
(03:26):
raising myself.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
You didn't actually grow up in this area and your
New York City. Do you think you would actually be
where you are today if you say, maybe you grew
up in a small, tiny town.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think environmentalism, like where your environment
is has a lot to do with what you become
in a sense, you know. I think conversely, on one end,
I know a lot of people that grew up like
in Manhattan and like you know, born and raised New Yorkers,
and that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're going to be
(04:01):
quote unquote successful or great. It's not like an entree
into like success, you know. In fact, I would say
that sometimes New Yorkers sort of feel like privileged or
entitled because they feel like they've got the card of
like I'm a true New Yorker. I'm already fifty percent
of the way there right, Whereas if you're slightly outside
(04:22):
of that, then you feel like you have to earn
the respect of being a New Yorker or earn your
way into the you know, the mindset of what it
means to be a New Yorker, and that creates hustle,
that sort of like I need to prove myself kind
of thing versus like I'm born here, i was raised there.
I'm going to prove shit to nobody mentality exactly. Yeah,
(04:42):
so there's pros and cons to everything. My parents, from
a very young age brought me to work and they
would just be like, just go roam the city and
come back at five. When we leave, they were just like,
just don't die.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Don't die, just come love you too much.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
And I got to experience, I mean, bless them because
I got to experience lot of amazing ship in New
York City back then. You know, like this was like
in the early eighties dating myself, but this is like
the eighties of New York City.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
You know, I look like you're from the eighties, thank you,
not one on your skin.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Let me tell you it's that Chinese blood. But this
is the birth of hip hop in New York, you
know what I mean, Like that that thing you hear
about where like you can buy mixtapes from the DJ
out the back of a trunk. I remember getting conned
in a in a game of like three card montegue,
you know. And I remember like being young and getting conned,
(05:35):
and I was really upset. But then later on I
was like, it's kind of cool that, Like at a
young age, I got hustled. I realized that everyone watching
the three card money is part.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Of the They're all working together, all working together.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yes, that's when I learned. I was like, oh, they're
all working together, like you got.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Me my mom, Like, mom, these people were dishonest.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I got mugged. I got mugged, I got muggs. Yeah wow,
Madison Square Gardens. So but I also got like stabbed.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
My gosh, you got stabbed.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, when they robbed you? Yes, was it because you
didn't want to give your wallet?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It's because after I gave him my wallet, I ran
after him in like a heated moment. He went into
a building, went into an elevator, and then I was
with him now in an elevator.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Like Renlan's just rushing. You become a next James Bond.
Basically in your mind, he got me.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
He stabbed me, and then I came out of the elevator.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
My gosh, where did he stab you?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
He stapped me here, but he didn't make contact. He
went through all things. Thank God for like triple xl
hip hop clothing, because I was wearing like my I
think I was wearing like, yeah, my periellous America jacket,
and like he just went like this and like went
through my whole thing but didn't make contact with him.
I was just like so lucky, so so just overall
(06:50):
classic New York City shit. You know that I am
blessed that I was able to experience.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Let's jump into your brand.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
What would you say defines you and your brand itself?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Consistency. That's the first word that comes to mind. We
are embarking on the twenty fifth anniversary of the founding
of this brand. By me, the secret to getting to
the quarter century mark is not being the dopest, flyest,
hottest thing on earth. It's not. It's like it's a marathon.
It's not a sprint, you know what I mean. Yeah,
(07:30):
everyone wants to be like, you know, blazing hot and
like the thing that everyone talks about, and trust me,
I do too, and we've been there multiple times. And
it's more like surfing where it's like you just have
to like ride waves, you know, and it doesn't matter
who you are, but you're gonna have down cycles. And
(07:50):
the secret to longevity and success is how is not
how you get to the ups, it's how you handle
the downs. When I started the brand, I wanted it
to be generational, like I wasn't aiming to be hot.
I was aiming for like generations of my family and
(08:12):
people to be like staple Man like that is. It
was such a thing, you know, And I think the
beautiful part about it is that entering our twenty fifth year,
it doesn't feel long at all.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
For my years, twenty five years is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Like, let me put in the perspective, the majority of
our customer base wasn't born when I printed the first
Staple shirt. I started it in ninety seven out of college,
you know. But it's crazy that I hear just kids
being like I hear kids saying like, I love your
brand because my dad rocks your brand. So like it's
now it's generating. It is literally generational, like it's passed
(08:49):
down to.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Like I love that though.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, dad showing their kids about what they love wearing
and they pass it down to their kids exactly.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, So that's a that's where we're at right now.
And when you ask me what I think about what
I personally think about the brand, I'm sure if you
ask one hundred people on the street when they think
about Staple, everyone will have a different thing, whether it's
a sneaker or like creative agency or my podcast or
whatever it is. But for me, it's just like left right, left, right, left,
one step at a time, consistency, you know, That's that's
(09:20):
all it is. People want overnight successes, but they don't
understand that, Like, even when you see an overnight success,
there was probably years and years of like grind that
went into that. It's just that you discovered them overnight.
But there's a lot of preparation that went into it
before that, you know.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
So let's bring it back to two thousand and five.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I know, Okay, it's probably the question that everyone always asks.
This was a pinnacle moment in time. I mean, this
is probably one of the craziest drops for Nike as
well as yourself to ever happen in history.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, yeah, there to put more.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
Friends and going on in the city right now, a
special sneaker made just for New York's in such I demand.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
People are fighting to own a Parodi's thing to be
as too.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Michael Palmer and shows us how Nike's Pigeon Dunk has better's.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Blind som video shows the scene outside the Reed Space
store on the Lower East Side yesterday when nearly one
hundred self proclaimed sneaker heads got into a showing matches.
They waited for the doors to open and the chance
of buy one of only twenty pairs of Pigeons that
limited edition.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Of course, this is the infamous shoe. This is the
this is a Nike Pigeon Dunk. We dropped it in
five It was a really interesting time in sneaker culture
prior to this dropping, because it was still a subculture
at that point. When I say that, I mean like
there was like maybe a couple of thousand kids that
were like into sneakers in a really obsessive way. I
(10:45):
was personally into sneakers big time since the sixth grade,
so like before the term sneaker head was even invented,
I was like already collecting shoes for some strange reason,
not because of resell not because of hype, not because
of flexing on the ground, because none of those things
were invented yet. It was purely out of like the
strange obsession with the design and the creation of sneakers.
(11:07):
That was really what it came down to for me.
People think that the Pigeon Dunk was like the one
and only thing that I ever did. But of course,
if you think about it, Nike doesn't just call people
and be like, what kind of Nike do you want
to do?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Like you imagine old phone book and spin the pages.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's just a stable this guy.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, we had done a lot of things up until
this point, and we had done a lot of things
with Nike up until this point actually that a lot
of people don't really aren't familiar with and don't know about.
So this Pigeon Dunk was probably like our seventh or
eighth shoe design for Nike, not to mention other design
work like graphic design, apparel design, internal presentation work like
(11:50):
that is like in the dozens and dozens of work
that we've done. Do you want to know the story
of how okay?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So I was.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I was the art director for a mag that's still
around today. It's called The Fader magazine. It's a very
prominent music, fashion culture magazine. I was the art director
of it for the first twenty issues. So like I
designed completely the first twenty issues of The Fader. I
went to NYU for journalism before I went to Parsons
for design, So I have like a journalistic bug in me,
(12:18):
and so I was allowed to pitch stories to The Fader,
you know, every once in a while. I wanted to
do an article about why Nike in Japan at the
time was releasing limited edition shoes and there was a
small group of people that would buy shoes in Japan.
And when I say that, I don't mean Amazon one
click pay, I mean fly on a plane with empty bags,
(12:39):
go to Japan, buy as many shoes as they could
fly back, and then sell them with a markup. This
is the birth of recess.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
So that was the birth of reason.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yes, it was like Nike in America was making stuff
for foot locker and athletes' foot Yeah, Nike in Japan
was making these limited edition shoes, one of which was
they were working with a store called at Most.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
At the time, okay, And.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I wanted to understand, like, why is a billion dollar
company making thirty six pairs of shoes for one store
in Japan when now they see that there's demands happening
here in America. Why don't they just make more of them?
They're a billion dollar capitalistic company. Why are they doing
this thing? And so I pitched a story to the
publishers of The Fader, and they're like, that's an interesting story.
All right, we're gonna send you to Japan and research this.
(13:27):
And I had no leads, zero leads. I don't speak
Japanese at all. Just landed in Japan, started going into
retail stores and I would just be like, pull a
shoe off the shelf. I'll be like, who sells you
this shoe? And they're like what, And I'm like, I
come from the Fader magazine. I'd bring a copy of
The Fader. I'm doing an article about Nike. Who sells
you this shoe? I would work my way up this
investigative ladder to the point where I finally got to
(13:50):
the guy who decides which shoe gets made in how
many limited quantities, and which story goes into We sat
down at the headquarters of Nike Japan, and we conducted
an interview about why he did this. He's like, I
want to get you out to Beaverton, which is the
headquarters of Nike Global. He's like, we should just talk
and I was like, yes, we absolutely should. And at
(14:10):
that time, you know, Beaverton, Oregon was like the Wizard
of Oz like it was like this mecha of a
place that a sneakerhead could never actually go to. That's
how my relationship with Nike started. But a funny story
is when I met with him, he's like, you know,
I should introduce you to another guy who we work
with in Tokyo. He helps me decide which shoes to
(14:32):
pick and what colors to make them and what fabrics
to make them. So he's like, my, he doesn't work
for Nike, but he's like a consultant of ours, and
you should meet with him too and put him in
the magazine. It's like, great, I would love to and
he's like, yeah, his name's Giroti Fujuar and he owns
this brand called Fragment. So the next day it's a
subtle name.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
He brought hip hop back to Japan.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yes, he brought hip hop.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Funny is from New York, Yes, and then.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
He brought He also brought punk rock culture through Vivian
West voted Malcolm McLaren from London to Japan. So he's
the ultimate, you know, culture curator. So we had our interview.
After that interview, he's like, oh, why don't you come
over to my house for dinner? So I was like, okay, amazing,
you know. So I go to his house for dinner
that night. A couple of people are there. It's like
(15:17):
a small party, a small gathering of people, and I
see on the couch, I see James Jebia, who owns Supreme.
He's just sitting on the couch. Then I go to
his backyard and there's like a guy like, you know,
grilling shrimp. Turns around, it's Eric Clapton grilling shrimp and
(15:38):
like chicken. Right then another guy walks in. I don't
know who he is. He introduces himself. He's like, oh,
I'm Hiroki. I was like, oh what do you do.
He's like, oh, I just started this brand. It's called
vis Vin, you know. And I was like, and you know,
I didn't know who these people were, but like then
I come to realize, like Wow, I was just at
dinner with Eric Clapton, who I knew. James Jebbia I
knew also because not only did he own Supreme, but
(15:59):
he also was manager and owner of Union in New
York and he was the manager of the Stusey New
York City store, so I knew him from just being downtown.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And then this guy who was about to start a
brand called Visban walks in, you know, so like immediately
I was like injected, No, not at all, And that
was just like, you know, some people will say, like
I've cross examined myself on this many many times. Some
people will say like, You're so lucky that you were there, right, Like, yeah,
I am lucky in a way, but I also don't
(16:31):
forget Pitch the fader on this story got them to
approve me to go out there, and everything I had
to align. I had to hustle my way up, ask
questions that didn't have answers to I had no bearings
at all, worked my way up, found myself into this yes,
lucky position, but many many people would have stopped at
(16:51):
even asking to go. This is the snowball effect or
or you know, or the butterfly effect. Whatever, But like
you just take one pebble and you just flick it,
and then you just let it roll and just go
and just let it go. The worst part is when
people are paralyzed by the options of like what if
I flick it into this when nothing happens? What if
(17:14):
I fail? What if it blows up and I can't
handle it? Like, why don't you just fucking jump and
see what happens.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
What's interesting now that I'm hearing you talk about your
experience in Japan, is this kind of the starting point
of collabs?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Would you say, there's this thing called like work for
hire or design work, and then there's collaboration, and there's
a very fine line between the two. Basically that fine
line is like, we're gonna give you money to design
something for us, and you have to be quiet about
it and walk away, take your check and shut up.
That's designed work for hire?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Collab is put your signature here.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, So whether it shoes it at most that you
were talking about.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Were they able to put their branding?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Okay, so it was just give that yes, pairs of
shoes okay?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Interesting, yes, yes, And these shoes that I designed early
for Nike, like the Navigation Pack, the Nordic Pack, the
Cortes laser, the air Rift laser. These are shoes that
I designed before the word collaboration was born. It was
worked for hire that gave me money to design them.
Here these are two other ones that I had a
hand in designing that are not collaborative. They're just designed
(18:24):
for hire. Yeah. Yeah, this was the first one where
they said you can put your stamp on it. Yeah.
I could have put my signature on I could have
put my full name on it. But I was already
because I had a clothing line. I was developing a
mascot and a logo for the clothing line at the
same time. When Nike was like, we want you to
design a shoe dedicated to New York City, right, I
(18:47):
was like, I'm already designing a mascot dedicated to New
York City and it's where my clothing line it hadn't
even come out yet. Wow, what if this was the
launching platform for this logo? You know? And uh, it
seemed too perfect to me. But then when I pitched
it to Nike, because they are expecting like, oh, we
(19:10):
can't wait, So what do you gots that's your liberty done.
So like the Empires, like the and I was like, pigeon,
these dudes are from Beaverton, Oregon. They have hawks. The
things that you think are you know, represent New York.
You think that because you don't live in New York.
(19:31):
If you live in New York, you understand what a
pigeon means. Now they had to take my word for
it because none of them lived in New York, right,
So they're like, well, I mean, we chose you to
design this, so I guess we're just gonna trust you.
And yeah, thanks and kudos to Nike for like, there
was no design change at all. This was this was
my illustrator, cad and this was the sample. There was
(19:53):
no like, can you tweet your pigeon? Looks like they
literally like, I guess we'll have to try us too.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah. And so now when you look at the sneaker riot,
the New York Post cover, the news, all the you know,
things that happened from that, you could argue that none
of that would have happened if they meddled in the
design process, if they wanted to make it more accessible
and knowledgeable for like outside New Yorkers. But they were
just like, let's trust the artists that we asked to
(20:23):
do this and see what happens. That's how history got made.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
What is your favorite food to eat that in the
city here? Obviously we know Chinese is better, and.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Discussion Chinese and Canada just destroyed. So like, if you're
gonna have Chinese, just wait to go to Toronto and
Vancouver Toronto. I travel a lot, and there are certain
foods that New York just has nailed that no matter
how hard another city tries, they can't replicate it. So
the dollar slice, the dollar slice is like, you.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Know, I've had many drunken nights getting my dollar Slice.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And then the other thing is the New York City
bagel is also something that can't be replicated. Actually, Montreal
makes a dope bagel, it's a totally different species, but
the New York City bagel is classic. And they say
that it's the New York City water that makes the
pizza and the bagel so good, which is why even
if you replicate the entire kitchen in another city, the
(21:37):
water is different.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
It's different.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I don't want to step in this, guys. One thing
about being in the city too is h washing that's
like when you're having the worst day of your life,
right you seven, your day is over.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So yeah, so those are the New York City staples
I think.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I mean, obviously, New York is kind of the cultural
capital of the world, so you're always gonna find the
best of the best in New York.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
This is where all my wedding shoots happened, my big weddings.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Fake.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I've been married, like times married.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
You ever married a fake you know, husband, but then
gone out on a real date with your then fake.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Husband with my Now, no, you never dated.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I've never dated.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I've dated a model before, but not one that you
shot with.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Not one that I've shot with.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
That really cute if you got married and can you.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Imagine and then we actually really got we already have
our picture.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's a rom com right there, that's.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Like some.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Way to do it right already already gone.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
We say we photos.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I had a tailor in London make my wife and
I like our wedding outfits. They're made out of like
Nike Tech Pak Performance Police. So our whole tuxedo was
made out of Nike Techtically still like they're super light.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
I like their tech police. It's really well. It's also
extremely stretch stretching.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Right. I wore white, white Air Force ones, and my
wife wore Cortezes because she's from La, so we had
the uptown Cortes.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
That is a very La seeker. I think it's actually
snowing the off of this. We're gonna have a white
Christmas everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Ye, it's so strange.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
It's like Hollywood snow.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Yeah, it is like Hollywood s I feel like we
literally have.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
A snow machine that's happening.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
This is very cool.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
This is when all the secret heads freak out and
they need to go get plastic bags for their shoes.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Right, ridiculous. I gotta wear your shoes.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Gotta go get some zip like bags.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I feel like I could just sit on a table
somewhere and just people.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Watch people's feet.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah. Do you like identify people when you meet them
first by the shoes that they wear.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
They're going to see an Air Force one in white?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Like what else?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Is it really like a young teen female thing?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
To wear white white Air Force ones? Right?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
And women just you know what, I've realized they don't
like to.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Cover their ankles.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, so if they can choose silhouettes, they're not going
to really go for like an air Jordan one high, right,
They would prefer a low just because it shortens them.
When you go, I'm so tall, I won't take anything
that sort of makes me look normal.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Is it here? Oh yeah, it's not lid yet.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
They haven't lit it yet.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
This is like we're being tourists.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It's fine.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
So what's your go to seeker right now that you
like to wear that?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
As I've seen the Debie's hat. No, these are not
like go Tos coy. Yeah, they're good, I gotta say
right now, my go to is.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Crocs, Crocs, grateful Dad's No, sorry, Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
I got those one. Some ones actually smell like the chicken.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Those are really rare.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, so I got a pair of those and they
are so comfortable.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Jealous. Yeah, I mean during COVID Crocs just like took over.
You know, they were like the go tos, And my
instinct is to put them on when I go out,
But then I'm like, no, I do have to represent exactly.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, you're like that would kind of be at.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Home attempt to try to like put something good on you.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Know, where do you think females fit into the culture
(26:06):
and where do you see it going into the future,
because I do think that women are starting to have
a bigger presence.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
Definitely, the brands are aware of it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I mean, I think you touched on it earlier when
you said the goal is actually to me like genderless,
like it's not about male or female, but for better
or for worse. Street culture, in my opinion, is sort
of born out of skate culture, hip hop culture, and sports.
It's the marriage of those three things that created street culture.
(26:38):
And those three things were all male dominated, you know,
cultures as well, so it makes sense that street culture
starts out dominated by male and then now we're in
an age I think currently where there's finally recognition of
what females are able to do with this clothing that
is oftentimes made by and for males, but females are
(26:58):
able to take it and create the style and you know,
add new trends to it as well. Sneaker brands now
their number one priority is the female demographic. And so
to me, like it's coming up where I feel like
very soon, like in the next three years. I think
when you go to Nike dot com Ordidas dot com,
Like there won't be men and women's sections anymore. We'll
(27:20):
just get there and.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
You'll be like a kind of sex.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, because I don't think there should be like, oh,
that's the best female design sneaker of the year, Like
why do you even like why can't it just be the.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Best best design?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Because even you know, with secret releases, I hate sometimes
when it's a woman release and I feel like sometimes
they're really thinking, Okay, how do we make this extremely feminine.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Versus why don't we just put a good color on
the scene.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah. Have you ever heard of the term shrink it
and pink it? The old mentality was you take of
men's shoe, shrink it and put pink on it. And
now you ever a women's shoe shoe, don and pink it. Yep,
that's how you made women's shoes.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
So I think it's it's there. We're right at the precipice,
you know. I think a great example is actually recently,
you know, the Sekai nikes that have come out right
and the success of them both on a sneaker hype
level but also on a mainstream level. Right there, I
see like regular dudes who are not sneaker heads love
this shoe. They don't know anything about Sakai. They just
(28:17):
want this shoe, right, is a female right Nike, And
hence the public was not like Bravo to a female
designer on making this great female lead shoe, Like, no,
it's just.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
Don't when you look at it.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
The colors are great. Yep, it's not like a bubblegum pink.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Sometimes it's a little intimidating when somebody's asking, well, what's
your secret collection, what's your first shoe that you had?
Speaker 5 (28:45):
How many shoes you have?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And whenever I go on panels, I think one thing
that I talk about is breaking down those barriers.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
Shouldn't be so competitive.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
No, you know, everybody should be able to be a
part of this, and I don't think that there should
be guidelines as to what makes you a sneaker.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Right right, I agree. In fact, I'm going to flip
the script and like when I hear someone say I
have three pairs of shoes, I'm like, Bravo, Like that
is aspirational to get your whole curation down to like minimalists,
these three you know, Like I almost feel stupid that
I have so many because I can't decide. Back in
(29:20):
the day, I used to go to like these these
sneaker stores of New York. They're like old school. One
was called Vim, one was called Model's. Yeah, Like I
would literally go in the bargain basement, the bottom row
thirty nine ninety nine on markdown, put it on, and
then when you walk the streets, people are like, yo,
what are those? It looks so fly the way you
(29:41):
haven't coordinated. I'm like, yeah, this is VIM, Modell's bargain basement.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Then way to do it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So it's not about getting the most hype stuff.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
One of the next questions I want to ask you
was where do you see yourself.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Being in ten years?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Ten years obviously.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
Looking like twenty four is still probably.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, I'll look at twenty nine. The secret for me
is I don't really look that far ahead, to be
quite honest. Sure, I want to know next year that
we're still in business, that employees will have bonuses and
they'll be paid in YadA, YadA YadA. But I don't
really put too much stress on myself or even put
benchmarks on like I want to have this many millions,
(30:28):
and I want to have this many employees and this
many stores in ten years. Life is just too short,
you know, to even think about that. I don't dwell
on the past. I don't think about the future. I
just literally want to live in the present as much
as possible, you know, And if you repeat that level
of thinking over and over every day. This is what
(30:49):
I meant when I said left right, left right, Because
if you're just concerned with the present every day, then
you multiply that together and you will have longevity, You'll
have sustainability, you'll have a life legacy, you know what
I mean. But if you're like, in twenty five years,
I better be doing this, or in two years or
five years, you better be doing this, and you know,
shit happens. You're not always going to hit your goals,
(31:09):
and that's kind of demoralizing for me. This is how
I think anyway. I'm not saying everyone needs to think
this way. But if I keep putting benchmarks in front
of myself and I miss them, I'll feel bad. And
you know, I've gone through a lot of experiences in
my life where I realized that tomorrow is not promised,
and so like, I just want to live each day
to the fullest. People are like, oh, so you don't
care about like, you know, your your family's health in
(31:31):
the future, Like you don't have a savings account. No,
it's not living reckless. There's a difference between not stressing
out and worrying about the future and also being present
in the moment.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I want to move on to Sesame Street because I
was always fan as a child. Okay, and I saw
that you did a Sesame Street collab.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Pretty amazing because you like Sesame Street grounds, I do
that for everyone learn their abcson one two three is
from Sesame Street, right.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Cookie Monster always just made me want to eat a cookie.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yet one ye, me too. And to create your own
brand rooted in counterculture really, you know, rooted in sort
of anti establishment and people not thinking that you could succeed,
you know, having an underdog brand and then getting to
a point where like this brand that you grew up
with is now you know, collaborating with us to create
(32:22):
a whole collection with and I remember in one of
our first meetings, I threw out this crazy idea where
I was like, we have a pigeon and you guys
have big bird, and we both have birds as our
main mascots. Could we have Big Bird wearing a pigeon
outfit and he's got a hoodie that he puts on
and he's got a pigeonhead.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We totally and we.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Hype beasted him out, and then Elmo got jealous, and
so Elmo wanted Yeah, So we gave Almo just another
incredible benchmark for the brand. It's really important to show
young people and kids that, like, you know, this is
bigger than just sneakers in fashion, you can make, you know,
clothes for kids. You could have it be inspired by
(33:06):
things that you were growing up on. I was really
proud of that one.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
About the ecosystem of the secret streetwork culture. You've got
your botters, you have your resellers.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Do you think in the future this is only going
to increase?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I used to always say that the bubble was going
to burst one day and resell and these inflated prices
and bots was going to just burst and everyone was
going to go back to normal buying shoes for eighty
nine ninety nine plus tags. You know, But it just
keeps ballooning and keeps growing and growing, and it doesn't
look like there's any end in sight. And it's a
game of supplying demand.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So as long as the sneaker brands and the culture
curators continue to increase the population of people who are
into sneakers, and as long as the sneaker brands either
are regulating the quantity or can't keep up with demand, right,
and the first number keeps growing, you're gonna have people
that are willing to pay one point two five two
(34:08):
x three x the original price because there's a shortage
of it. That's just simple supplying demand law of economics, right.
I think it's gonna be a while five plus years
before we see some sort of like regula like regulation
in terms of like deflation of like the inflated prices.
But a lot of things will have to happen for
that to occur.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Well, I can't wait to see.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I know that we didn't say where you would be
in ten years from now, but I can't wait to
see where your company world peaks.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Obviously, you are a true success and.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
You know what you do, and I mean, my goodness,
you've got like what FORTI five businesses I feel like,
and keep track you can keeping Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Jeff is going to own half of New York City.
That is my intuition. That's my prediction.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
That's what's going to happen. There you go. Cool. Well,
thank you again for this. This is so much fun.
You fed me being on a stage. This is the
best interview I've ever done.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Now it's nap time, right, Yeah,
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