October 21, 2021 • 39 mins
This week on The Skinny we take a dive into the world of sports cars. Toyota’s Jack Hawksworth and "Shaggy" discuss the complexity of one of racings toughest forms of competition.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Skinny with Rico and Kenna is a production of
I Heart Radio. Normally, at the start of every show
we have our guests introduced themselves. Unfortunately Carl forgot to
do that this past time. If they would have introduced themselves,
it would have looked a little something like this. I'm
Jack hulkswith and I'm Shaggy at. This is the Skinny
(00:25):
from the bath Heads I Wear Studios in Speedway, Indiana.
This is the Skinny brought to you by Toyota, Rhino
Classified General Tire and Dream Giveaway. This segment of the
Skinny is brought to you by Toyota. Welcome to the Skinny.
We have an exciting show coming your way. Ken Stop
(00:46):
and Michael Young sitting alongside once again Michael Young getting
pretty comfortable on that chair over there. My friend as Rico,
has been out in the battle around the country. But
it still can't fill the void. But I'm trying. I'm trying.
The countertops nice and not as clean as it usually is,
but it's but it's nice and clean. So Michael Young
(01:06):
will join me here today. Two great guests here sitting
alongside one of very talented race car driver picked his
way up through the ranks from krding up into open wheels,
drove for Sam Schmidt there for a while, also won
a championship or two along the way, made his way
up into any car currently driving in sports cars, and
actually won a championship in I believe it was a
(01:27):
Sprint X championship. So we're gonna talk to Jack Hawksworth,
who has joined us here in the studio and sitting
alongside is a name that you probably are not familiar with,
but I will tell you that wherever he has been,
wins have followed. And it doesn't matter what series it
might be in. It could be short course off road racing,
it could be nhr A, drag racing, it could be
(01:48):
sports cars, the twenty four hours of Daytona, a number
of times NASCAR. It doesn't seem to matter. But wherever
this guy goes, the brand tends to win. We call
him Shaggy, effectually known as Aggy, So he's a I
don't even know what your what your title actually is
or his real name for pizza, well, I know his
real name, but he likes to go incognito and we
(02:10):
know him as Shaggy. He's our friend of Shaggy so
the ones that need to know will know, and that's
all that really matters. But great to have Shaggy with us.
And we're gonna be dead serious in this show. There's
not gonna be a whole lot of playing around. And
I want to kick this thing off in the right
direction because right off the bat, people don't realize Shaggy's talents.
He's also an inventor, so in in the theme of
(02:31):
staying serious, I want to ask him about his light
bulbs in the microwave right off the bat, I mean,
what what's going on with light bulbs in a microwave?
My friend? It's it's an experiment that we did. Uh,
I think we're racing maybe Indy cows up in Sonoma
quite a few years back, and maybe a couple of
adult beverages. Into the evening, a few of us decided
(02:52):
to pull all the light bulbs we could find out
a whole our rooms in a hotel, put me in
microwaven to the microwave on and they actually do stop
flashing and eventually them pulp, but the tongues and one's
going really good. So um, yeah, non invention, but certainly
a lot of fun doing it, and it's on YouTube
as well. You'll find it yet. So he's the Keith
Moon of the Who in the racing world. He's the
hotel room destroyer potentially, Potentially he's invented a lot of things.
(03:16):
I certainly am not aware of all of the inventions,
but I think one of them is a is a
leafblower office chair, if I'm not mistaken. So he spun
that one around quite literally a couple of times. Uh,
Shaggy's Shaggy's a lot of fun man, He's a heod. Hey, guys,
thanks for joining us here. Good seeing man. Yeah, if
you guys haven't watched Pinky Blinders yet, this he's Jack
(03:42):
is clearly one of the characters Pinky Blinders. So if
you a struggle listening to these guys, we'll put it together.
We had we had both of them on here, and
I can understand Shaggy most of the time, so we
put Shaggy right next to Actually find that a little
bit offensive because I think peaky blind as he's beaming
him at you. Yeah, you got it wrong. I don't
like iron Irish, Are Scott sir like Sharon? Sharon? I
(04:08):
will say when when Jack was running an IndyCar. I
always thought it was great because I've thought the world
of Jack when he was running an open wheel, and
I always would get definitely terrified when I interviewed him
because I would ask a question and he'd get very
in depth with an answer, and then I'd start not
understanding what he was saying. I'm like, oh my god,
if I asked another question and he's already answered it,
(04:29):
what do I do? So I had to dance around
it a little bit because sometimes when he gets comfortable,
your your accent to me was always the toughest out
of anybody. Yeah, I think him. It's even worse when
I know when I'm over When I'm over here, I'm
trying to speak clearly, but oh my god, you get
me a get me a home with a lot of
(04:49):
brownfeed lots. And I wanted to stand the dumb word
I'm saying. I don't thinks So, yeah, I don't know
that Melvin Swine. So what's interesting is the more I
just got involved with the Ted last show. So for me,
that is my introduction to the world, not only football,
but of the accent and everything. Is that true to
(05:10):
your country? I've actually not I've heard a lot about
you never watching. Everybody keeps telling me I've not seen
an either, but apparently a probably really good. Right, It's
a fantastic show. I started watching football soccer in the
States and because of the show, it's just been very interesting.
(05:30):
The whole culture around football is interesting to me. And
is it as passionate for you guys when you were
growing up, there was that something that you football was it?
Football is life? I mean for me growing up at school, yeah,
that was you know, every time you had a you
know break all recess, what have you guys call it
over here, it was you know, football in the playground
(05:51):
and everyone out the team and if it was non
uniform day you're tending up. Um, yeah, I'll live in
pools and whatnot. So yeah, it was always big. It
was always big back that I mean even today. I
mean I don't follow it as a hard car as
(06:12):
I used to, but like everybody's got the team and yeah,
it's yes, part of part of being Bonning, England, I guess,
yeah it is. Well, I went to a different type
of school an Air than Jack did, so we played
rugby and cricket. Still a big football fan for sure. Yeah,
Skill they're playing rugby and cricket, not particularly posture. No, no,
that's all we could manage. But it was it was fun.
(06:33):
After I get rugby, explain the cricket thing to me
the whole It doesn't make it can go on for
three days. Are you chasing crickets? Like? Why what do
you heard them? No? No it's not. It's not baseball
that would be more exciting than cricket in my opinion.
It's like baseball with a flat bat, all right, but
it lasts for three well except the guy runs. It
(06:53):
takes about half a mile run up before he throws
the ball at you. It doesn't even have to bounce,
and you just try and hit it or dodge it
and not break anything. And you just run back and forth,
back and forth as many times as you can before
the bull comes back and hittory. It's got a lot baseball.
It's not even close. It's simple versions simply uh yeah.
It's helped me out to rob it, like the Robin
Williams skid on golf and he's like, time you do
(07:17):
that one time. I think there's like a one day
thing you can do with cricket which doesn't take as
long do you like cricket? I I hate cricket. No
inchesstrather watch paint. So we had so we had Jack
Harvey on here and uh, and we did a little
research on him and he comes from this little town
(07:37):
we're literally I think there was only two pubs, right,
and Michael rattled off both of them. And as soon
as he said said the one pub, He's like, oh, yeah,
that's that's the one right there. That's where all my
mates go whenever whenever I go home, you know, that's
the one, the one that I go to. So, uh,
is did you guys come from small town like that?
The same way? Just one or two local pubs and
(07:58):
in the in the small village. I don't know if
it's small town is Harvey because havery like comes across
a bit of farmer to me. I just imagine it
was his flat cap and his shotguns, shooting clay pigeons
and stuff. Right. So I was from just outside of Bradford,
which is pretty big city. Um, but yeah, we had
kind of a local pub and whatnot, and then there
was like the local nightclub. As soon as you turned seventeen,
(08:18):
you were you were down in it. So but maybe
not quite as local Jack, I don't think he's definitely Lincoln. Lincoln.
Is he from like that? Yeah? Yeah? Middle of warm
beer or cold beer? Well yeah, I mean when you're
over there, I mean we're room temperature for the ales
is the way you should do it. But I've been
(08:38):
over here so long now that cold beers it's the
norm and it makes sense. And going back over there
and drinking warm be it has gone a little bit.
What the hell was there? But but my time was Peterborough.
I was brought up in Peterborough, and I would have
to think that actually initiated just because there was on
ice boxes or whatever back in the day and they
just got they're just too damn lazy. Actually, So what
(09:00):
so when you when you guys came to the States,
what was the biggest shock for you when you first
got here? Was there one cultural thing shaggy? Obviously you
came over a lot sooner than than Jack did. Was
there one big thing that when you got here you said,
oh my god, I can't believe he that here I
am in the States and this is completely different. Two
big things. So, driving on the wrong side of the
(09:20):
road was a bit of a pain. Well, you guys
drive on the wrong You should have been used to it, right,
driving a wrong side the road. Now we drive on
the right side of the road. And then the second
thing is traffic lights in Texas. Okay, so I'm color
blind red green, and we go to Raising, Texas. I'm
driving the SUV with the whole track support true in it,
(09:41):
and they hang these traffic lights sideways and I couldn't
of course, I know reds at the top and dreams
at the bottom have no clue and almost put the
whole of tr these tracks support guys through the windshield.
So that was my biggest concern. Got I got used
it in the end, but maybe around Dayton over to
about those another time. What about you Jack, when you
(10:02):
got here? Well, I mean, biggest thing is just how
much space you guys have out here, right, Like, It's just,
you know, everything so far apart. You have so much land.
Coming from the UK, it's heavily populated, you know everything.
He's walking distance and public transport, you can you can
pretty much you use it to get anywhere. I remember
coming to the States for the first time and realizing
you have to have a car out here. There's no
(10:22):
other way to get around, So just the sheer size
of it. And I think that it's you know, that's
why you can. I think the racing and you know,
and stuff is big out here in many ways because
of these places to do it, you know what I mean,
Like it's you can have a race track in because
there's space for one, same with like dirt bike tracks
all that kind of stuff. So just coming out here
and just just yeah, it's the sheer size of the
(10:42):
damn plays compared to I guess Europe. The interest of
fair reporting, you still live in the UK, Yeah, so
I've kind of, I guess, gone between a little bit
the last few years. So I did have a place
in Charlotte last year obviously when the yeah, you had
to come. Once you got here, you kind of had
to stay here kind of. Yeah, it was difficult and
there's always a risk obviously with going back and you
(11:04):
know you're gonna get back in or not. And last
year especially, everything was so new and well known at
that point that it was a risk. So I had
a place last year, um here, and then this year
I've not had a place in the US, But to
be honest, I've spent so much time time here I've
practically been a resident at the Homewood Suites in uh
in Concord this year, so I think next year I
(11:25):
will get an apartment here again. But I've still got
a place in England as well, So yeah, just kind
of between between both places. Really, I wouldn't really say
even have a home at the minute. It's just kind
of living out of suitcase exactly your dream exactly. You
know what's interesting, as you said that, the enormity of
the United States, and I don't think about it because
we have so many dirt tracks that you can drive
(11:46):
forty five minutes and we see a dirt track Indianapolis,
Motor Speedways here, you can drive west and get to St.
Louis and and they have gateways right there. You We've
got road courses in Watkins, Glent. What is England like?
Are there places that you can grow up? Is it
all carding? Is it? Is there any dirt tracks? What's
it like in England compared to the United States? There is?
(12:09):
And I mean I'm a big motocross guy, so I
ride dirt backs quite a lot and I love it.
But so I always look at the U S. There's
like for me, US is the home of dirt bikes,
right like, and yeah, we have places to ride in England. Um,
you know on there's tracks we can go practice on
a usually it's on a Wednesday, Saturday or Sunday. But
like in the US, people can have a track in
(12:29):
the background. You know, you can build your own track
and there's there's space to do that. Whilst in England,
like trying to even if you had even if you
had the landing, you had the you know, the ability
to be able to build a track, to get planning
permission for it, and for it to be safe to
the point where you know, you could run bikes around
there and not feel like somebody's going to break into
your garage and and steal everything is difficult to do.
While she comes to the States and like these people
(12:51):
have big ranches and all kinds of stuff. So um,
puts your ink on. You got Harvey shooting clay pigeons,
so you might get shot exactly, gonna be careful even
though the difference between Clay and it's just yeah, you
guys from not perspected. I love the father. In the US,
that's it's easier to do stiffly that you know, I
mean you can have have lottened and do stuff with it.
(13:14):
In England, it's pretty difficult at a minute, it's getting
hot and hot obviously with um just yet just they
don't make it anymore. I'm drying. It's only so big.
The Brits have invaded the States. And also right here
on the Skinny, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll
be right back on the other side. This segment of
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Welcome back to the Skinny. It's a damn shame you
just missed all the greatest action during the commercial break,
because we had some great stuff here and we'll never
get it back. I'm sure Carl recorded all of it.
That's the way he rolls. So once again we have
a couple of guys here from the UK. We have
Shaggy from TRD is sitting alongside Jack Hawksworth and Shaggy.
(14:18):
I want to go to you here for for a
moment um. I really do want you to tell me
you're the title? Your your official title, I guess, but
I always view you as more of a data acquisition guy,
a guy that that gathers all the all the information
from the race car. And I've seen you take it
to some pretty far extremes, certainly an nhr A. You
(14:40):
go out, you analyze the track. I know you. You
brought a lot to the table in terms of traction
at the track and looking at the rubber and the
lanes and stuff that we're there. You again, you did
what you do, you take it to another level. But
what is your official title at t r D. I'm
not even suan I can. I think it's a senior manager,
Team and engine support and of course, so we have
(15:03):
a traveling bunch of engineers and technicians in NASCAR. In
n hr A, we're involved in uh midget racing, dirt
racing of course, and some other stuff as well. And
these guys travel around the country supporting the team's racing
test events. You know, they report to me, but we
all do the same thing. We grabbed data from the
(15:23):
car whenever we can. Some series allow it, some don't
give us as much. Um, we analyze it, try and
make the engine run better. And we've also spent quite
a bit of time seeing if we can do something
with a car as well, because we also have a
Chassi department now in North Carolina, so we've got lots
of tools and lots of quickly lines for sure, and
you know you can. It's all everyone's got data. It's
what you do with it, that's the that's the trick.
(15:44):
And of course for the fans, let's let's give him
a little idea about your history. When did you first
get into motorsports dating back to what and um you're
you're you're clearly in the UK, whenever you first got started? Yeah, so,
um so I started let's called at fifteen to do
an apprenticeship, which that they really don't exist anymore, an
engineering apprenticeship a diesel engine company in peter we are
(16:06):
called Perkins Engines did a five year apprenticeship mechanical engineer
and learned a whole lot of stubborn causes engines around
that's that was part of their business. So I went
on to Dinose Cells and did some engine development on
diesel engines. This is all late eighties, sorry, late seventies
and shoot early eighties, and then around I think three
I took a job at Cause with in the UK,
(16:28):
of course, a top four and one racing team back
there now sorry race engine manufacturer. Back then they wanted
to build a new Dino set up to take production
based engines and turn them into race engines. And I
actually built or helped build a couple of diners there
and we started doing work for anyone who wanted their
engine a bit a bit trick. So Mercedes I think
was one of the first engines we worked on the
(16:49):
w A on that one Mercedes, so that was mass produced,
and we did a Cause with four valve head and
then we did a whole lot of a lot of stuff.
A lot of it came to America as well, who
did some Ponty ac iron duke engine uh Ponty a
Piaro V six in gt P and g T o
UM and of course Formula one was the big deal
(17:10):
for Cause. Within as well. So, um, I remember this
video that that our good friend Shane Tecklenberg had posted.
He was working on one of the older F one
cars and I think it was a cause Worth power plant.
Maybe maybe incorrect on that, but it was one of
the first UH turbos that had I think it had
adjustable veins. Is that is that what he was working Yeah? Probably? Yeah,
(17:32):
So that was the little one and a half lead
was that before? No, that was was there? Yeah, I
didn't have anything to do with that, the little butterfly deal,
but it's kind of cool. Yeah, that's when Keith duck
was was forced to do it a turbo engine when
he just wanted to stick with a v A normally aspirated.
You've done so much did you realize what you were
doing at the time? Was it just obviously it was
(17:54):
a labor of love, and as you're working your way
through as a young man, you're just scrap and try.
When did you realize, hey, I've made it? I didn't.
I don't think I have. Actually, no one ever makes it.
I enjoy it. It's it's a hobby more than anything,
and they pay me for it. It's great. But I
mean I've just been lucky to get involved in a
whole load of good stuff, and certainly coming over here
in the in the nineties to work with Toyota and
(18:15):
Indicar Prognal Champ car program was absolute blast because my
first race was Michigan, the US five hundreds, and I
turned them. I've never been to a big superspeedway and
I stand there and watch these cars go by, and
I what year was? Just believe it, so that would
be nineties seven. That was a few years after that.
I actually hosted that with Larry Rice on the international feed,
(18:35):
but it probably wasn't until the early two thousand that
that that international feed was in Portuguese. If I remember correctly,
we can understand the word I was saying, So how
many how many years did they do the US five?
That's great? The first one is the only one that
I remember, and so they had the big shot like
coming on the start of the race. Is the one
(18:55):
that I remember. So if if another one happened, and
I remember, I remember that day because it was a
pretty big deal to split and the US five hundred
was happening before the ND five hundreds, so of course
everybody is waiting for the D five or waiting for
the US five hundreds to start, and all eyes are
on the TVs in the garage areas, and they had
that massive crash, and I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah,
(19:19):
And I wasn't necessarily referring to the to the length
of it more. I would just referring more to Michigan.
So you don't even think about that. It went on
into two thousand at least because we had to ended
up with Chip Canasse and Montoya driving, and we won
the US five hundred in two thousand, two thousand one.
Maybe he had a great scrap with Michael and right.
I don't if you remember that one when we had
(19:40):
a secret in our pocket and we didn't tell Chip
Canasi until the last ten laps that you could use it,
which is a certain position on the dash switch, and
Montoya gets it down a gear and goes on and
wins the race. How great was montoyah as a driver? Yeah,
it's awesome. One of the best I've ever known off track. Yeah,
I don't know that. Well, that's fair, that's fair. Yeah,
(20:02):
You've been in a lot of cool stuff all along
the way you were part of. You mentioned Gonnassi. You
were part of their twenty four hour wins as well
when they were running a Lexus power. Yeah, yeah, for
sure they had good times back then. You have with
a little Lexus engine. Uh. Yeah, we need to go
back there and win again. About this, Jack, that's the
plan next year? Yeah? Try and are you are you
letting something out here on the skinny that we shouldn't?
(20:23):
I mean those were something was going to race the
twenty four hours again and with Jack in January? Yeh
and a d P I, Um, we're going to race
some don't we have been DPI. That was a good diversion.
You shot up being a politician, dude, we we we
They asked the athletes. Obviously the main focus for the
(20:43):
for the team and for the brand at the minute.
So we've obviously we've been trying the last five years
really to win that race and um we uh kind
of and end of this year coming into uh, you know,
we've changed the team a little bit coming into this
season and we people like we've got a really good
base now to to you know, have an attack it
next year. Right, that's try and win that race compare
(21:06):
to the twenty four is it? What would you compare
it to Is it liked the Indianapolis five? Is you
have to be the right place at the right time?
Is it attrition? What? What is it with that race?
My opinion is it's very I'd say it's different to Indie.
I mean the whole there's a lot of stuff different
about it, the whole approach to the race, the the
whole build up to the races different. Um the five
(21:28):
for sure, you need to be in but you know,
I guess the first kind of part of it, that
first three quarters it's kind of similar in a way
that you need to put yourself in position right to
be there at the end, which is kind of similar
to the role like really the first kind of eight
nine hours I just finding your feet and making sure
you're in position at the end with all the parts
on the car so that you can go racing. The
(21:48):
difference I would say is is that like a lot
happens at Indie, but generally the faster cars will tend
to move forward and the cars go back. What's the
Daytona especially with the way the rules are with safety
cars and things like that. There, you know, and which
is so many cars out there and racing for so long.
It really is. I think just surviving and getting towards
(22:09):
the end of the race becomes even more critical. You have,
you have other drivers you drive with. It is it
fatiguing mentally? I mean you get to sleep, but is
it's still you get out of the car, you get
back in. Things obviously changed day to night, conditions can change. Yeah,
it's amazing addressed, Like people ask me, it's a lot,
but it's amazing what adrenaline does. Right, So of course
(22:31):
if you're up for twenty four, thirty six hours or
whatever it is when you do like a race like that,
when you're out of the car, for sure, like it
can be, you feel drained, But the second you get
back in the car, it's like a light switch and
you feel great again. But the hardest, yeah, that is hard.
That The hard thing about data or just enjoyance racing
in general, like the longer races, is as a driver anyway,
(22:52):
you go from when you're doing your stints, being in
a hyper focused situation where you're where you're all in
just you know, just like you would be in the
Indy car race. You do an hour and a half
two hours in the car, but then you get out
of the car, you stop, and then you have to
you know, I guess, wait for the adrenaline to wear off,
you know, calm down and stuff again. Then you have
to gear up again a few hours later to do
(23:13):
another effectively indy car race. Right. So it's the it's
the fact that you you go out there in these
long races and you effectively do the same distance as
you would in like a sprint race, um and you
know series with only one driver. And then it's you've
been able to, I guess take yourself away from the
competitive element when you're out of the car, because at
that point you can't help anymore, Right you're out, be
(23:33):
able to switch you off, relax and then get yourself
up again to go later in the day. That side
of it is mentally quite taxing because a lot of
guys who come into it initially, certainly I did my
first few endurance races. I would come out of the
car and then I would want to sit on the
pit stand and kind of watch what's going on. And
really at that point you need to be you know,
you need to kind of take yourself away from it,
(23:54):
relaxed and kind of gear yourself up to go again.
But yeah, that it's it's difficult. It's different in that
again it's got off your word for sure to just
walk away from the team in the middle of a
race and try to go relax and then and then
come back and get inside of the cars. So we'll
take a quick break here once again. We'll be right
back with some more questions for two of the best.
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Rhino dot Co. Welcome back to the Skinny. We have
a couple of great guys sitting here alongside of us.
A matter of fact, jack Hawks were busy kicking over
cups here and spilling stuff all inside of the studio.
Rico will love that. No stains, pou don't worry about it.
(25:27):
And of course Shaggy sitting right alongside the trek dude
Michael Young as well. We'll join me here. Hey, we
were talking about the twenty four hours of Daytona and
uh we can. I don't want to focus on it.
I mean, you give us some great stuff, but I
am really curious if you could put it into percentages,
and Shaggy, I'd really like your perspective on this as well.
As we look at a young driver who's um, who's
(25:49):
in there scrapping in terms of percentages, how hard do
you drive the car from lap one to the last lap?
And then for you, Shaggy, what I would ask is
how hard do they drive a car from lap one
to the last lap? Now, in comparison to the early
two thousands or mid two thousand's, uh, you know, were
they did. They have to back off a little bit
more because it seems like now it seems like a
(26:12):
freaking full on scrap from lap one. Yeah, I mean,
I guess from from my perspective, the cars are so
well built now and everybody's on top of the top
of the're so reliable, right, and that just means that
everybody ends up you have to push because everybody else
is pushing. So yeah, there's a bit of you know,
there's management in terms of break management and time management,
just like there isn't any series, right, But yeah, I mean, yeah,
(26:34):
that's going to help you. Really the first kind of
sixteen hours of the race, you're really just trying not
to have a massive screw up, so you kind of
everybody's just following basic strategy rules. You're not trying to
push the fuel to the absolute limit, You're not trying
to hopefully not trying to go off strategy from the
leaders at that point, everybody's just trying to do the
(26:56):
basics right and stay on the lead. Lap It's a
bit different to Indie because the Indie silently three hour race, right,
So you're already beginning to look at the end of
the race as soon as the races started dating. I'd say,
you don't really start looking at that stuff, in my opinion,
until you're kind of six. So so shag how hard
did they push them back in the day when you
guys were winning. I mean when we started, when Lexus
(27:19):
and TRD started with in ground down with two thousand three.
We did some testing and the cars were just pure
and reliable. There's a fab car Crawford and Riley's and
they wouldn't last twenty race unless you nurse them. So
they really weren't sprinting for the first three hours. If
you've got a car left at the end of that,
if you go by the time we won some championships
there with with Lexus in two thousand and six, seven
(27:39):
and eight with Chip. Can ask you again, um to me,
at least looking at lap times they were they're on it.
I mean, there's no, we're not hanging around now, We'll
be all right next a couple of hours. I think
they're really on it now for you because you're a driver,
you probably just feel like you, well, this is when
for most people it's probably a hundred and ten. But
but right now, I mean, I think these two if
(28:00):
our race's busy equipment can last or should do, I
think the will sprint races putty much. We give us
some perspective. You're you're in the engine side of this thing.
You have computer generated dinos and you literally put one
of these engines on a dino on a computer simulated
Daytona track if you will, or any track for that matter,
and that computer will run that engine through up shifts
(28:23):
and down shifts for twenty four hours. We have done. Yeah,
we we don't need to do every year once we've
got I mean, we don't change engines are molligated. So
we did do that initially with this with this engine.
And yeah, it's a it's an Avil DINA. It takes
the actual data from the car and basically back back
reversus it and runs the engine. The motors drive it
when it needs to, and obviously the engine drives the
(28:44):
dina when it needs to. And I don't know, quite
a lot of fuel as well goes through these things.
And then obviously you tear it apart. Whenever you're done
and you take you analyze what's what's going on in
there and make better whatever needs to be better, and
and leave everything else alone. Fixed problems is a deal, yeah,
and unful. Surely you've done find a problem until the
racetrack it says something about it. Dina doesn't get shaken
around and stuff. It's all different, you know. The Dinah's
(29:05):
all controlled colding system, the costs, someone's gonna fill it
up and part of the chassis, right, I mean, so
it's tweaking and feeling stress and there's a Yes, it's
a whole different deal, but yeah, dinas are still good.
Hey Jack. When you're racing a race like the twenty four,
I just thought of this, and I've watched the race
for decades now. When you're racing at night because you're
(29:27):
so old, because I'm so old, and you're still racing
at night and it rains or it's just you're racing
at night. Obviously, during the day, no matter what speed
you're going, it all becomes relative. You're if you're doing
one seventy miles an hour, it's doesn't feel like it
because you're doing it constantly. But at night with lights
(29:49):
and eyesight and just mental strain. Does that change. It's
got to be difficult at least for me, especially if
it would rain and you've got lights and you're driving,
hitting you your break point, how difficult does that become.
I think rain is a much bigger thing than dark,
especially somewhere like Daytona. It's quite well lit and we
get to practice in there before in the dark before
(30:09):
we race, so the drivers are all pretty accustomed to that.
And to your point about it being kind of, you know,
the speed being relative in the daylight, once you drive
enough at night, it kind of becomes relative as well.
Where it becomes very difficult is if you like to say,
if you get some rain at night when already visibility
is not quite as good as it was in the
in the daytime, especially at Daytona, nighttime is still a
(30:31):
long way from the end of the race. So if
you're out there, you obviously want to keep running at
a decent pace. You don't want to give up huge
track position. But also as soon as it starts raining,
risk management definitely comes into it. Right. You don't want
to be the guy who throws it off middle of
the night and you know rex the race, but at
the same time, you also got to maintain a reasonable
(30:52):
pace to you know, to to get through the night
and still be on the lead lap. So just risk
management that whole race, throughout the throughout the whole race,
depend in on the condition, depending on the time of
the race, your whole mindset changes, you know, like either
risk you take with all the cars when you follow in,
when you're being passed, or whatever. Your mindset completely changes,
you know, like you're never going to make the same
(31:12):
decision twelve hours into a twenty four hour races you
would twenty three hours. And we shouldn't do anyway. I mean,
some people still do, but you should be you know,
your mindset should be evolving throughout the race, depending on conditions,
depending on time to go um s strategically get to
the end of being position. That's amazing because in my
mind I'd be like afraid there'd be a deer or
some drunk guy from Oklahoma running across the track, and
(31:34):
I'd always be like, oh, you said Oklahoma. When you
said deer, I thought I wrote America right away. But Dayton,
they're definitely a drunk guy running drunk American deer that's
how that one works. I want to piggyback great question.
By the way, Michael, I want to piggyback off of
that because all three of us and maybe a Michael
was there as well. A couple of years ago, it
got pretty cool. I mean it was. It was a
(31:55):
vicious cold actually, uh, I want to say down upper thirties,
lower forties were in their DPI cars with the with
the massive tires on them. I mean they were. They
could barely get off pit out, you know, I mean
just no grip on them. I was actually spotting for
one of the GTD teams and I was I was
spotting for Shaggy, and I said, what the hell's up
when you're drivers? He hit us right square in the
(32:17):
ass going into the East Horseshoe. But it's because your
cars could stop so freaking good. In ours didn't. That
was a Lamborghinis. Yeah, the car was very good, but
boy did not stop like like the lex of stuff.
But but nonetheless, whenever you throw in he talked about
nighttime and rain, you brought that into the equation. Talk
(32:38):
to me about nighttime rain and it gets cold as well.
I mean, it's just a whole different animal. Yeah, I
mean the track conditions when the temptation she goes down,
especially when you're on cold tie is leaving pit lane.
We don't have Tai walm Is like you know some
of the Europeans series. We we go out that on
stone called ties. So if it starts to drop into
the faulties at night, then yeah, that's pit lane exit
is very treacherous. I mean people crash that every it, right,
(33:00):
it's always going packs it. So yeah, again though it's
not I don't see it as that much of a
big deal, to be honest, because really, should you be
at nighttime when they're still twelve allows to go? Should
you really be, you know, on the absolute ragged edge
leaving pit lane? Probably not, you know what I mean?
So across your mind when you go out on the
NASCAR NASCAR track, you're hitting in a NASCAR one and
(33:22):
you're pulling gears, and you're sailing through NASCAR to headed
towards the bus stop on the back, and you're going
near two hundred miles and I mean you guys are
hundred eighty all day long down there. Does Does it
ever cross your mind or is it just a it's
just a part of the equation. Yeah, I mean, it's
just a edge pile. But you don't think that because
they're going three wide, right, I mean, and the hundred
(33:44):
eighty mile in our cars as slow as the one
on the track. Because the g t lms actually terminal speed.
I don't know that they're much different than what you
guys are. But uh, and then you've got a DP
car on the outside and it's the three of them
going by, and it's like, oh my god, I can't
imagine what it's like to be in that car. There's
definitely moments well, I you know, you three wide or
fall wide and this you know, a long way to
go in the race, and you're like, oh, this is
(34:04):
a bit sketchy, so you definitely remember them. I will
ask you this. We're getting close to the end and
I want to get this in because I've always asked
and Harvey Jack Harvey always has horrible answers and back
of the Day correct and and Darren Manning has horrible answers.
I just want to know what is the best cuisine
and what does England bring to the table, because you
(34:26):
guys have nothing really who I mean, I mean, so
far we've we've established you developed room temperature beer. Right,
the Italians, for you have great Indian food, but that's
not a culture. It's bangers and mash the only thing
you guys have to offer. Well, I would agree, right,
(34:48):
our cuisine is not the best. But when an American
says that, I'm always like, come on, guys, like your
whole any food in America is just stolen from some
of the culture. We're America. I w I even want
you up in Pandora's box that we're gonna come right
back at us because I agree with him. I don't.
We haven't originated much over here. Maybe ribs, chicken wings,
(35:09):
chicken wings. I'll come on, Mack. When you guys come
to the States, after you've been home for a while,
what do you long for when you get here? State
and kidney pie? Cornish pastime on that kidney beans or
(35:31):
actual kidneys from some animal, kidney from animals? Yeah, yeah,
castle whatever we've got hangar, awesome liver and bacon you
got you guys, get past the room temperature beer, then
the kidney isn't bad, so you just get so Shepherd's pie. Yeah,
that's that's a classic. If it's made a real shepherd. Yeah,
(35:52):
I mean if you put beef in it, that's no
good at all. You can't throw love. But I love
Shepherd's right. Of course you did well as Scottage pie.
Unless it's scot Lamb in it, then it's Shepherd's pie
actually the true story. Yeah, and then is that lamb mutton?
It depends how old it is. I think no, no, no,
(36:13):
that's not age. I don't think I's just another name
for lamb, that's all it is. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, Jack,
you're you're the farmer. I have no idea. I don't
eat many steak and ale. Maybe you should ask carry
as a farmer, he's probably a big I ordered mutton.
(36:33):
I was somewhere in the Midwest when I order mutton
one time, and why wouldn't do that? And it had
ground up bone in it? Oh that's nice. Yeah, yeah
it was. I mean there's a couple of parts that
were pretty crunchy. And black pudding of course is the
style of the show. Yeah, you need definitely if you
go to England, which also has like some coagulated blood
or something. Correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's hilarious. Yeah, that's
(36:56):
pig you know, is that what the Beatles were singing.
You know what, I've always wondered why all the English
moved to America? And this is why. This is why
your cuisine is borderline horrible. Kidney steak and kidney and
blood infused black pudding? Is it putting or putting pudding? Okay,
(37:18):
just checking that right? Well, I started the show off,
I am sold me. Apparently Peaky Blinders. I don't know
all those little different It's good. I see that Peaky
Blinders though, so I'll take it. Did you like that show? Yeah?
I mean I've only seen bits of it, but I
like that. What's the guy the head guy in it? Yeah,
I don't know. I seen the closest. I've got his
(37:39):
pepper pig and that's a whole another Definitely, that's the
Piggy's definitely not Peggy blind Is. Yeah, it's a great series,
for sure. You actually yeah, I think you guys would
enjoy it. Good stuff here is really great to have.
Shaggy is a long time friend. Shaggy and I've known
each other for for twenty years. Man, So glad, glad,
let glad you came in here. Pal, I get it you, uh,
(38:01):
I get your gig and where you're working. Um, I
appreciate you coming in here and and uh showing your
face here once in a while, because you're a very
important part of this support that we all love, man,
and you've been extremely successful and you've really made the
brand extremely successful, a huge part of the puzzle. I
know you always default. I've got a great team behind me,
(38:23):
and I'm sure it is a team, but but they're
following a pretty talented guy. So, and I'm proud to
call you my friend, Jack. Thanks for taking the time
to come in here, man, I know you're busy. By
the way. Uh, this show will air here on Thursday.
By the time it airs, Jack will have already won
here in Indianapolis as he is here racing the eight hour,
And I am I okay with saying that, I hope.
So yeah, you know, I wish you the best of
(38:48):
luck for sure, and keep your eyes on the GTD team.
They're they're easy to find. It's a it's a unique
paint job for sure, graphics job, I should say, they
stick out. But best of luck and thanks for taking time, fellows.
We really appreciate it. Chase, guys send next. Thanks for
being with us here on the Skinny. This episode has
been brought to you by Toyota. Rhino classifies Dream Giveaway
(39:10):
and general tire for the latest and sunglasses, optical frames,
accessories and apparel. Be sure to check out batheads dot com.
That's bath Heads with a Z. Production facilities provided by
Fatheads I Wear Studios. All rights reserved. The Skinny with
Rico and Kenna is a production of I heart Radio.
(39:30):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Skinny with Rico and Kenna is a production of
I Heart Radio. Normally, at the start of every show
we have our guests introduced themselves. Unfortunately Carl forgot to
do that this past time. If they would have introduced themselves,
it would have looked a little something like this. I'm
Jack hulkswith and I'm Shaggy at. This is the Skinny
(00:25):
from the bath Heads I Wear Studios in Speedway, Indiana.
This is the Skinny brought to you by Toyota, Rhino
Classified General Tire and Dream Giveaway. This segment of the
Skinny is brought to you by Toyota. Welcome to the Skinny.
We have an exciting show coming your way. Ken Stop
(00:46):
and Michael Young sitting alongside once again Michael Young getting
pretty comfortable on that chair over there. My friend as Rico,
has been out in the battle around the country. But
it still can't fill the void. But I'm trying. I'm trying.
The countertops nice and not as clean as it usually is,
but it's but it's nice and clean. So Michael Young
(01:06):
will join me here today. Two great guests here sitting
alongside one of very talented race car driver picked his
way up through the ranks from krding up into open wheels,
drove for Sam Schmidt there for a while, also won
a championship or two along the way, made his way
up into any car currently driving in sports cars, and
actually won a championship in I believe it was a
(01:27):
Sprint X championship. So we're gonna talk to Jack Hawksworth,
who has joined us here in the studio and sitting
alongside is a name that you probably are not familiar with,
but I will tell you that wherever he has been,
wins have followed. And it doesn't matter what series it
might be in. It could be short course off road racing,
it could be nhr A, drag racing, it could be
(01:48):
sports cars, the twenty four hours of Daytona, a number
of times NASCAR. It doesn't seem to matter. But wherever
this guy goes, the brand tends to win. We call
him Shaggy, effectually known as Aggy, So he's a I
don't even know what your what your title actually is
or his real name for pizza, well, I know his
real name, but he likes to go incognito and we
(02:10):
know him as Shaggy. He's our friend of Shaggy so
the ones that need to know will know, and that's
all that really matters. But great to have Shaggy with us.
And we're gonna be dead serious in this show. There's
not gonna be a whole lot of playing around. And
I want to kick this thing off in the right
direction because right off the bat, people don't realize Shaggy's talents.
He's also an inventor, so in in the theme of
(02:31):
staying serious, I want to ask him about his light
bulbs in the microwave right off the bat, I mean,
what what's going on with light bulbs in a microwave?
My friend? It's it's an experiment that we did. Uh,
I think we're racing maybe Indy cows up in Sonoma
quite a few years back, and maybe a couple of
adult beverages. Into the evening, a few of us decided
(02:52):
to pull all the light bulbs we could find out
a whole our rooms in a hotel, put me in
microwaven to the microwave on and they actually do stop
flashing and eventually them pulp, but the tongues and one's
going really good. So um, yeah, non invention, but certainly
a lot of fun doing it, and it's on YouTube
as well. You'll find it yet. So he's the Keith
Moon of the Who in the racing world. He's the
hotel room destroyer potentially, Potentially he's invented a lot of things.
(03:16):
I certainly am not aware of all of the inventions,
but I think one of them is a is a
leafblower office chair, if I'm not mistaken. So he spun
that one around quite literally a couple of times. Uh,
Shaggy's Shaggy's a lot of fun man, He's a heod. Hey, guys,
thanks for joining us here. Good seeing man. Yeah, if
you guys haven't watched Pinky Blinders yet, this he's Jack
(03:42):
is clearly one of the characters Pinky Blinders. So if
you a struggle listening to these guys, we'll put it together.
We had we had both of them on here, and
I can understand Shaggy most of the time, so we
put Shaggy right next to Actually find that a little
bit offensive because I think peaky blind as he's beaming
him at you. Yeah, you got it wrong. I don't
like iron Irish, Are Scott sir like Sharon? Sharon? I
(04:08):
will say when when Jack was running an IndyCar. I
always thought it was great because I've thought the world
of Jack when he was running an open wheel, and
I always would get definitely terrified when I interviewed him
because I would ask a question and he'd get very
in depth with an answer, and then I'd start not
understanding what he was saying. I'm like, oh my god,
if I asked another question and he's already answered it,
(04:29):
what do I do? So I had to dance around
it a little bit because sometimes when he gets comfortable,
your your accent to me was always the toughest out
of anybody. Yeah, I think him. It's even worse when
I know when I'm over When I'm over here, I'm
trying to speak clearly, but oh my god, you get
me a get me a home with a lot of
(04:49):
brownfeed lots. And I wanted to stand the dumb word
I'm saying. I don't thinks So, yeah, I don't know
that Melvin Swine. So what's interesting is the more I
just got involved with the Ted last show. So for me,
that is my introduction to the world, not only football,
but of the accent and everything. Is that true to
(05:10):
your country? I've actually not I've heard a lot about
you never watching. Everybody keeps telling me I've not seen
an either, but apparently a probably really good. Right, It's
a fantastic show. I started watching football soccer in the
States and because of the show, it's just been very interesting.
(05:30):
The whole culture around football is interesting to me. And
is it as passionate for you guys when you were
growing up, there was that something that you football was it?
Football is life? I mean for me growing up at school, yeah,
that was you know, every time you had a you
know break all recess, what have you guys call it
over here, it was you know, football in the playground
(05:51):
and everyone out the team and if it was non
uniform day you're tending up. Um, yeah, I'll live in
pools and whatnot. So yeah, it was always big. It
was always big back that I mean even today. I
mean I don't follow it as a hard car as
(06:12):
I used to, but like everybody's got the team and yeah,
it's yes, part of part of being Bonning, England, I guess,
yeah it is. Well, I went to a different type
of school an Air than Jack did, so we played
rugby and cricket. Still a big football fan for sure. Yeah,
Skill they're playing rugby and cricket, not particularly posture. No, no,
that's all we could manage. But it was it was fun.
(06:33):
After I get rugby, explain the cricket thing to me
the whole It doesn't make it can go on for
three days. Are you chasing crickets? Like? Why what do
you heard them? No? No it's not. It's not baseball
that would be more exciting than cricket in my opinion.
It's like baseball with a flat bat, all right, but
it lasts for three well except the guy runs. It
(06:53):
takes about half a mile run up before he throws
the ball at you. It doesn't even have to bounce,
and you just try and hit it or dodge it
and not break anything. And you just run back and forth,
back and forth as many times as you can before
the bull comes back and hittory. It's got a lot baseball.
It's not even close. It's simple versions simply uh yeah.
It's helped me out to rob it, like the Robin
Williams skid on golf and he's like, time you do
(07:17):
that one time. I think there's like a one day
thing you can do with cricket which doesn't take as
long do you like cricket? I I hate cricket. No
inchesstrather watch paint. So we had so we had Jack
Harvey on here and uh, and we did a little
research on him and he comes from this little town
(07:37):
we're literally I think there was only two pubs, right,
and Michael rattled off both of them. And as soon
as he said said the one pub, He's like, oh, yeah,
that's that's the one right there. That's where all my
mates go whenever whenever I go home, you know, that's
the one, the one that I go to. So, uh,
is did you guys come from small town like that?
The same way? Just one or two local pubs and
(07:58):
in the in the small village. I don't know if
it's small town is Harvey because havery like comes across
a bit of farmer to me. I just imagine it
was his flat cap and his shotguns, shooting clay pigeons
and stuff. Right. So I was from just outside of Bradford,
which is pretty big city. Um, but yeah, we had
kind of a local pub and whatnot, and then there
was like the local nightclub. As soon as you turned seventeen,
(08:18):
you were you were down in it. So but maybe
not quite as local Jack, I don't think he's definitely Lincoln. Lincoln.
Is he from like that? Yeah? Yeah? Middle of warm
beer or cold beer? Well yeah, I mean when you're
over there, I mean we're room temperature for the ales
is the way you should do it. But I've been
(08:38):
over here so long now that cold beers it's the
norm and it makes sense. And going back over there
and drinking warm be it has gone a little bit.
What the hell was there? But but my time was Peterborough.
I was brought up in Peterborough, and I would have
to think that actually initiated just because there was on
ice boxes or whatever back in the day and they
just got they're just too damn lazy. Actually, So what
(09:00):
so when you when you guys came to the States,
what was the biggest shock for you when you first
got here? Was there one cultural thing shaggy? Obviously you
came over a lot sooner than than Jack did. Was
there one big thing that when you got here you said,
oh my god, I can't believe he that here I
am in the States and this is completely different. Two
big things. So, driving on the wrong side of the
(09:20):
road was a bit of a pain. Well, you guys
drive on the wrong You should have been used to it, right,
driving a wrong side the road. Now we drive on
the right side of the road. And then the second
thing is traffic lights in Texas. Okay, so I'm color
blind red green, and we go to Raising, Texas. I'm
driving the SUV with the whole track support true in it,
(09:41):
and they hang these traffic lights sideways and I couldn't
of course, I know reds at the top and dreams
at the bottom have no clue and almost put the
whole of tr these tracks support guys through the windshield.
So that was my biggest concern. Got I got used
it in the end, but maybe around Dayton over to
about those another time. What about you Jack, when you
(10:02):
got here? Well, I mean, biggest thing is just how
much space you guys have out here, right, Like, It's just,
you know, everything so far apart. You have so much land.
Coming from the UK, it's heavily populated, you know everything.
He's walking distance and public transport, you can you can
pretty much you use it to get anywhere. I remember
coming to the States for the first time and realizing
you have to have a car out here. There's no
(10:22):
other way to get around, So just the sheer size
of it. And I think that it's you know, that's
why you can. I think the racing and you know,
and stuff is big out here in many ways because
of these places to do it, you know what I mean,
Like it's you can have a race track in because
there's space for one, same with like dirt bike tracks
all that kind of stuff. So just coming out here
and just just yeah, it's the sheer size of the
(10:42):
damn plays compared to I guess Europe. The interest of
fair reporting, you still live in the UK, Yeah, so
I've kind of, I guess, gone between a little bit
the last few years. So I did have a place
in Charlotte last year obviously when the yeah, you had
to come. Once you got here, you kind of had
to stay here kind of. Yeah, it was difficult and
there's always a risk obviously with going back and you
(11:04):
know you're gonna get back in or not. And last
year especially, everything was so new and well known at
that point that it was a risk. So I had
a place last year, um here, and then this year
I've not had a place in the US, But to
be honest, I've spent so much time time here I've
practically been a resident at the Homewood Suites in uh
in Concord this year, so I think next year I
(11:25):
will get an apartment here again. But I've still got
a place in England as well, So yeah, just kind
of between between both places. Really, I wouldn't really say
even have a home at the minute. It's just kind
of living out of suitcase exactly your dream exactly. You
know what's interesting, as you said that, the enormity of
the United States, and I don't think about it because
we have so many dirt tracks that you can drive
(11:46):
forty five minutes and we see a dirt track Indianapolis,
Motor Speedways here, you can drive west and get to St.
Louis and and they have gateways right there. You We've
got road courses in Watkins, Glent. What is England like?
Are there places that you can grow up? Is it
all carding? Is it? Is there any dirt tracks? What's
it like in England compared to the United States? There is?
(12:09):
And I mean I'm a big motocross guy, so I
ride dirt backs quite a lot and I love it.
But so I always look at the U S. There's
like for me, US is the home of dirt bikes,
right like, and yeah, we have places to ride in England. Um,
you know on there's tracks we can go practice on
a usually it's on a Wednesday, Saturday or Sunday. But
like in the US, people can have a track in
(12:29):
the background. You know, you can build your own track
and there's there's space to do that. Whilst in England,
like trying to even if you had even if you
had the landing, you had the you know, the ability
to be able to build a track, to get planning
permission for it, and for it to be safe to
the point where you know, you could run bikes around
there and not feel like somebody's going to break into
your garage and and steal everything is difficult to do.
While she comes to the States and like these people
(12:51):
have big ranches and all kinds of stuff. So um,
puts your ink on. You got Harvey shooting clay pigeons,
so you might get shot exactly, gonna be careful even
though the difference between Clay and it's just yeah, you
guys from not perspected. I love the father. In the US,
that's it's easier to do stiffly that you know, I
mean you can have have lottened and do stuff with it.
(13:14):
In England, it's pretty difficult at a minute, it's getting
hot and hot obviously with um just yet just they
don't make it anymore. I'm drying. It's only so big.
The Brits have invaded the States. And also right here
on the Skinny, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll
be right back on the other side. This segment of
the Skinny is brought to you by Dream Giveaway. Dream
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Welcome back to the Skinny. It's a damn shame you
just missed all the greatest action during the commercial break,
because we had some great stuff here and we'll never
get it back. I'm sure Carl recorded all of it.
That's the way he rolls. So once again we have
a couple of guys here from the UK. We have
Shaggy from TRD is sitting alongside Jack Hawksworth and Shaggy.
(14:18):
I want to go to you here for for a
moment um. I really do want you to tell me
you're the title? Your your official title, I guess, but
I always view you as more of a data acquisition guy,
a guy that that gathers all the all the information
from the race car. And I've seen you take it
to some pretty far extremes, certainly an nhr A. You
(14:40):
go out, you analyze the track. I know you. You
brought a lot to the table in terms of traction
at the track and looking at the rubber and the
lanes and stuff that we're there. You again, you did
what you do, you take it to another level. But
what is your official title at t r D. I'm
not even suan I can. I think it's a senior manager,
Team and engine support and of course, so we have
(15:03):
a traveling bunch of engineers and technicians in NASCAR. In
n hr A, we're involved in uh midget racing, dirt
racing of course, and some other stuff as well. And
these guys travel around the country supporting the team's racing
test events. You know, they report to me, but we
all do the same thing. We grabbed data from the
(15:23):
car whenever we can. Some series allow it, some don't
give us as much. Um, we analyze it, try and
make the engine run better. And we've also spent quite
a bit of time seeing if we can do something
with a car as well, because we also have a
Chassi department now in North Carolina, so we've got lots
of tools and lots of quickly lines for sure, and
you know you can. It's all everyone's got data. It's
what you do with it, that's the that's the trick.
(15:44):
And of course for the fans, let's let's give him
a little idea about your history. When did you first
get into motorsports dating back to what and um you're
you're you're clearly in the UK, whenever you first got started? Yeah, so,
um so I started let's called at fifteen to do
an apprenticeship, which that they really don't exist anymore, an
engineering apprenticeship a diesel engine company in peter we are
(16:06):
called Perkins Engines did a five year apprenticeship mechanical engineer
and learned a whole lot of stubborn causes engines around
that's that was part of their business. So I went
on to Dinose Cells and did some engine development on
diesel engines. This is all late eighties, sorry, late seventies
and shoot early eighties, and then around I think three
I took a job at Cause with in the UK,
(16:28):
of course, a top four and one racing team back
there now sorry race engine manufacturer. Back then they wanted
to build a new Dino set up to take production
based engines and turn them into race engines. And I
actually built or helped build a couple of diners there
and we started doing work for anyone who wanted their
engine a bit a bit trick. So Mercedes I think
was one of the first engines we worked on the
(16:49):
w A on that one Mercedes, so that was mass produced,
and we did a Cause with four valve head and
then we did a whole lot of a lot of stuff.
A lot of it came to America as well, who
did some Ponty ac iron duke engine uh Ponty a
Piaro V six in gt P and g T o
UM and of course Formula one was the big deal
(17:10):
for Cause. Within as well. So, um, I remember this
video that that our good friend Shane Tecklenberg had posted.
He was working on one of the older F one
cars and I think it was a cause Worth power plant.
Maybe maybe incorrect on that, but it was one of
the first UH turbos that had I think it had
adjustable veins. Is that is that what he was working Yeah? Probably? Yeah,
(17:32):
So that was the little one and a half lead
was that before? No, that was was there? Yeah, I
didn't have anything to do with that, the little butterfly deal,
but it's kind of cool. Yeah, that's when Keith duck
was was forced to do it a turbo engine when
he just wanted to stick with a v A normally aspirated.
You've done so much did you realize what you were
doing at the time? Was it just obviously it was
(17:54):
a labor of love, and as you're working your way
through as a young man, you're just scrap and try.
When did you realize, hey, I've made it? I didn't.
I don't think I have. Actually, no one ever makes it.
I enjoy it. It's it's a hobby more than anything,
and they pay me for it. It's great. But I
mean I've just been lucky to get involved in a
whole load of good stuff, and certainly coming over here
in the in the nineties to work with Toyota and
(18:15):
Indicar Prognal Champ car program was absolute blast because my
first race was Michigan, the US five hundreds, and I
turned them. I've never been to a big superspeedway and
I stand there and watch these cars go by, and
I what year was? Just believe it, so that would
be nineties seven. That was a few years after that.
I actually hosted that with Larry Rice on the international feed,
(18:35):
but it probably wasn't until the early two thousand that
that that international feed was in Portuguese. If I remember correctly,
we can understand the word I was saying, So how
many how many years did they do the US five?
That's great? The first one is the only one that
I remember, and so they had the big shot like
coming on the start of the race. Is the one
(18:55):
that I remember. So if if another one happened, and
I remember, I remember that day because it was a
pretty big deal to split and the US five hundred
was happening before the ND five hundreds, so of course
everybody is waiting for the D five or waiting for
the US five hundreds to start, and all eyes are
on the TVs in the garage areas, and they had
that massive crash, and I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah,
(19:19):
And I wasn't necessarily referring to the to the length
of it more. I would just referring more to Michigan.
So you don't even think about that. It went on
into two thousand at least because we had to ended
up with Chip Canasse and Montoya driving, and we won
the US five hundred in two thousand, two thousand one.
Maybe he had a great scrap with Michael and right.
I don't if you remember that one when we had
(19:40):
a secret in our pocket and we didn't tell Chip
Canasi until the last ten laps that you could use it,
which is a certain position on the dash switch, and
Montoya gets it down a gear and goes on and
wins the race. How great was montoyah as a driver? Yeah,
it's awesome. One of the best I've ever known off track. Yeah,
I don't know that. Well, that's fair, that's fair. Yeah,
(20:02):
You've been in a lot of cool stuff all along
the way you were part of. You mentioned Gonnassi. You
were part of their twenty four hour wins as well
when they were running a Lexus power. Yeah, yeah, for
sure they had good times back then. You have with
a little Lexus engine. Uh. Yeah, we need to go
back there and win again. About this, Jack, that's the
plan next year? Yeah? Try and are you are you
letting something out here on the skinny that we shouldn't?
(20:23):
I mean those were something was going to race the
twenty four hours again and with Jack in January? Yeh
and a d P I, Um, we're going to race
some don't we have been DPI. That was a good diversion.
You shot up being a politician, dude, we we we
They asked the athletes. Obviously the main focus for the
(20:43):
for the team and for the brand at the minute.
So we've obviously we've been trying the last five years
really to win that race and um we uh kind
of and end of this year coming into uh, you know,
we've changed the team a little bit coming into this
season and we people like we've got a really good
base now to to you know, have an attack it
next year. Right, that's try and win that race compare
(21:06):
to the twenty four is it? What would you compare
it to Is it liked the Indianapolis five? Is you
have to be the right place at the right time?
Is it attrition? What? What is it with that race?
My opinion is it's very I'd say it's different to Indie.
I mean the whole there's a lot of stuff different
about it, the whole approach to the race, the the
whole build up to the races different. Um the five
(21:28):
for sure, you need to be in but you know,
I guess the first kind of part of it, that
first three quarters it's kind of similar in a way
that you need to put yourself in position right to
be there at the end, which is kind of similar
to the role like really the first kind of eight
nine hours I just finding your feet and making sure
you're in position at the end with all the parts
on the car so that you can go racing. The
(21:48):
difference I would say is is that like a lot
happens at Indie, but generally the faster cars will tend
to move forward and the cars go back. What's the
Daytona especially with the way the rules are with safety
cars and things like that. There, you know, and which
is so many cars out there and racing for so long.
It really is. I think just surviving and getting towards
(22:09):
the end of the race becomes even more critical. You have,
you have other drivers you drive with. It is it
fatiguing mentally? I mean you get to sleep, but is
it's still you get out of the car, you get
back in. Things obviously changed day to night, conditions can change. Yeah,
it's amazing addressed, Like people ask me, it's a lot,
but it's amazing what adrenaline does. Right, So of course
(22:31):
if you're up for twenty four, thirty six hours or
whatever it is when you do like a race like that,
when you're out of the car, for sure, like it
can be, you feel drained, But the second you get
back in the car, it's like a light switch and
you feel great again. But the hardest, yeah, that is hard.
That The hard thing about data or just enjoyance racing
in general, like the longer races, is as a driver anyway,
(22:52):
you go from when you're doing your stints, being in
a hyper focused situation where you're where you're all in
just you know, just like you would be in the
Indy car race. You do an hour and a half
two hours in the car, but then you get out
of the car, you stop, and then you have to
you know, I guess, wait for the adrenaline to wear off,
you know, calm down and stuff again. Then you have
to gear up again a few hours later to do
(23:13):
another effectively indy car race. Right. So it's the it's
the fact that you you go out there in these
long races and you effectively do the same distance as
you would in like a sprint race, um and you
know series with only one driver. And then it's you've
been able to, I guess take yourself away from the
competitive element when you're out of the car, because at
that point you can't help anymore, Right you're out, be
(23:33):
able to switch you off, relax and then get yourself
up again to go later in the day. That side
of it is mentally quite taxing because a lot of
guys who come into it initially, certainly I did my
first few endurance races. I would come out of the
car and then I would want to sit on the
pit stand and kind of watch what's going on. And
really at that point you need to be you know,
you need to kind of take yourself away from it,
(23:54):
relaxed and kind of gear yourself up to go again.
But yeah, that it's it's difficult. It's different in that
again it's got off your word for sure to just
walk away from the team in the middle of a
race and try to go relax and then and then
come back and get inside of the cars. So we'll
take a quick break here once again. We'll be right
back with some more questions for two of the best.
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This segment of the skinny is brought to you by
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(25:05):
that special big block. You need the trailer to move
your baby around the country in we got you at
Rhino dot Co. Welcome back to the Skinny. We have
a couple of great guys sitting here alongside of us.
A matter of fact, jack Hawks were busy kicking over
cups here and spilling stuff all inside of the studio.
Rico will love that. No stains, pou don't worry about it.
(25:27):
And of course Shaggy sitting right alongside the trek dude
Michael Young as well. We'll join me here. Hey, we
were talking about the twenty four hours of Daytona and
uh we can. I don't want to focus on it.
I mean, you give us some great stuff, but I
am really curious if you could put it into percentages,
and Shaggy, I'd really like your perspective on this as well.
As we look at a young driver who's um, who's
(25:49):
in there scrapping in terms of percentages, how hard do
you drive the car from lap one to the last lap?
And then for you, Shaggy, what I would ask is
how hard do they drive a car from lap one
to the last lap? Now, in comparison to the early
two thousands or mid two thousand's, uh, you know, were
they did. They have to back off a little bit
more because it seems like now it seems like a
(26:12):
freaking full on scrap from lap one. Yeah, I mean,
I guess from from my perspective, the cars are so
well built now and everybody's on top of the top
of the're so reliable, right, and that just means that
everybody ends up you have to push because everybody else
is pushing. So yeah, there's a bit of you know,
there's management in terms of break management and time management,
just like there isn't any series, right, But yeah, I mean, yeah,
(26:34):
that's going to help you. Really the first kind of
sixteen hours of the race, you're really just trying not
to have a massive screw up, so you kind of
everybody's just following basic strategy rules. You're not trying to
push the fuel to the absolute limit, You're not trying
to hopefully not trying to go off strategy from the
leaders at that point, everybody's just trying to do the
(26:56):
basics right and stay on the lead. Lap It's a
bit different to Indie because the Indie silently three hour race, right,
So you're already beginning to look at the end of
the race as soon as the races started dating. I'd say,
you don't really start looking at that stuff, in my opinion,
until you're kind of six. So so shag how hard
did they push them back in the day when you
guys were winning. I mean when we started, when Lexus
(27:19):
and TRD started with in ground down with two thousand three.
We did some testing and the cars were just pure
and reliable. There's a fab car Crawford and Riley's and
they wouldn't last twenty race unless you nurse them. So
they really weren't sprinting for the first three hours. If
you've got a car left at the end of that,
if you go by the time we won some championships
there with with Lexus in two thousand and six, seven
(27:39):
and eight with Chip. Can ask you again, um to me,
at least looking at lap times they were they're on it.
I mean, there's no, we're not hanging around now, We'll
be all right next a couple of hours. I think
they're really on it now for you because you're a driver,
you probably just feel like you, well, this is when
for most people it's probably a hundred and ten. But
but right now, I mean, I think these two if
(28:00):
our race's busy equipment can last or should do, I
think the will sprint races putty much. We give us
some perspective. You're you're in the engine side of this thing.
You have computer generated dinos and you literally put one
of these engines on a dino on a computer simulated
Daytona track if you will, or any track for that matter,
and that computer will run that engine through up shifts
(28:23):
and down shifts for twenty four hours. We have done. Yeah,
we we don't need to do every year once we've
got I mean, we don't change engines are molligated. So
we did do that initially with this with this engine.
And yeah, it's a it's an Avil DINA. It takes
the actual data from the car and basically back back
reversus it and runs the engine. The motors drive it
when it needs to, and obviously the engine drives the
(28:44):
dina when it needs to. And I don't know, quite
a lot of fuel as well goes through these things.
And then obviously you tear it apart. Whenever you're done
and you take you analyze what's what's going on in
there and make better whatever needs to be better, and
and leave everything else alone. Fixed problems is a deal, yeah,
and unful. Surely you've done find a problem until the
racetrack it says something about it. Dina doesn't get shaken
around and stuff. It's all different, you know. The Dinah's
(29:05):
all controlled colding system, the costs, someone's gonna fill it
up and part of the chassis, right, I mean, so
it's tweaking and feeling stress and there's a Yes, it's
a whole different deal, but yeah, dinas are still good.
Hey Jack. When you're racing a race like the twenty four,
I just thought of this, and I've watched the race
for decades now. When you're racing at night because you're
(29:27):
so old, because I'm so old, and you're still racing
at night and it rains or it's just you're racing
at night. Obviously, during the day, no matter what speed
you're going, it all becomes relative. You're if you're doing
one seventy miles an hour, it's doesn't feel like it
because you're doing it constantly. But at night with lights
(29:49):
and eyesight and just mental strain. Does that change. It's
got to be difficult at least for me, especially if
it would rain and you've got lights and you're driving,
hitting you your break point, how difficult does that become.
I think rain is a much bigger thing than dark,
especially somewhere like Daytona. It's quite well lit and we
get to practice in there before in the dark before
(30:09):
we race, so the drivers are all pretty accustomed to that.
And to your point about it being kind of, you know,
the speed being relative in the daylight, once you drive
enough at night, it kind of becomes relative as well.
Where it becomes very difficult is if you like to say,
if you get some rain at night when already visibility
is not quite as good as it was in the
in the daytime, especially at Daytona, nighttime is still a
(30:31):
long way from the end of the race. So if
you're out there, you obviously want to keep running at
a decent pace. You don't want to give up huge
track position. But also as soon as it starts raining,
risk management definitely comes into it. Right. You don't want
to be the guy who throws it off middle of
the night and you know rex the race, but at
the same time, you also got to maintain a reasonable
(30:52):
pace to you know, to to get through the night
and still be on the lead lap. So just risk
management that whole race, throughout the throughout the whole race,
depend in on the condition, depending on the time of
the race, your whole mindset changes, you know, like either
risk you take with all the cars when you follow in,
when you're being passed, or whatever. Your mindset completely changes,
you know, like you're never going to make the same
(31:12):
decision twelve hours into a twenty four hour races you
would twenty three hours. And we shouldn't do anyway. I mean,
some people still do, but you should be you know,
your mindset should be evolving throughout the race, depending on conditions,
depending on time to go um s strategically get to
the end of being position. That's amazing because in my
mind I'd be like afraid there'd be a deer or
some drunk guy from Oklahoma running across the track, and
(31:34):
I'd always be like, oh, you said Oklahoma. When you
said deer, I thought I wrote America right away. But Dayton,
they're definitely a drunk guy running drunk American deer that's
how that one works. I want to piggyback great question.
By the way, Michael, I want to piggyback off of
that because all three of us and maybe a Michael
was there as well. A couple of years ago, it
got pretty cool. I mean it was. It was a
(31:55):
vicious cold actually, uh, I want to say down upper thirties,
lower forties were in their DPI cars with the with
the massive tires on them. I mean they were. They
could barely get off pit out, you know, I mean
just no grip on them. I was actually spotting for
one of the GTD teams and I was I was
spotting for Shaggy, and I said, what the hell's up
when you're drivers? He hit us right square in the
(32:17):
ass going into the East Horseshoe. But it's because your
cars could stop so freaking good. In ours didn't. That
was a Lamborghinis. Yeah, the car was very good, but
boy did not stop like like the lex of stuff.
But but nonetheless, whenever you throw in he talked about
nighttime and rain, you brought that into the equation. Talk
(32:38):
to me about nighttime rain and it gets cold as well.
I mean, it's just a whole different animal. Yeah, I
mean the track conditions when the temptation she goes down,
especially when you're on cold tie is leaving pit lane.
We don't have Tai walm Is like you know some
of the Europeans series. We we go out that on
stone called ties. So if it starts to drop into
the faulties at night, then yeah, that's pit lane exit
is very treacherous. I mean people crash that every it, right,
(33:00):
it's always going packs it. So yeah, again though it's
not I don't see it as that much of a
big deal, to be honest, because really, should you be
at nighttime when they're still twelve allows to go? Should
you really be, you know, on the absolute ragged edge
leaving pit lane? Probably not, you know what I mean?
So across your mind when you go out on the
NASCAR NASCAR track, you're hitting in a NASCAR one and
(33:22):
you're pulling gears, and you're sailing through NASCAR to headed
towards the bus stop on the back, and you're going
near two hundred miles and I mean you guys are
hundred eighty all day long down there. Does Does it
ever cross your mind or is it just a it's
just a part of the equation. Yeah, I mean, it's
just a edge pile. But you don't think that because
they're going three wide, right, I mean, and the hundred
(33:44):
eighty mile in our cars as slow as the one
on the track. Because the g t lms actually terminal speed.
I don't know that they're much different than what you
guys are. But uh, and then you've got a DP
car on the outside and it's the three of them
going by, and it's like, oh my god, I can't
imagine what it's like to be in that car. There's
definitely moments well, I you know, you three wide or
fall wide and this you know, a long way to
go in the race, and you're like, oh, this is
(34:04):
a bit sketchy, so you definitely remember them. I will
ask you this. We're getting close to the end and
I want to get this in because I've always asked
and Harvey Jack Harvey always has horrible answers and back
of the Day correct and and Darren Manning has horrible answers.
I just want to know what is the best cuisine
and what does England bring to the table, because you
(34:26):
guys have nothing really who I mean, I mean, so
far we've we've established you developed room temperature beer. Right,
the Italians, for you have great Indian food, but that's
not a culture. It's bangers and mash the only thing
you guys have to offer. Well, I would agree, right,
(34:48):
our cuisine is not the best. But when an American
says that, I'm always like, come on, guys, like your
whole any food in America is just stolen from some
of the culture. We're America. I w I even want
you up in Pandora's box that we're gonna come right
back at us because I agree with him. I don't.
We haven't originated much over here. Maybe ribs, chicken wings,
(35:09):
chicken wings. I'll come on, Mack. When you guys come
to the States, after you've been home for a while,
what do you long for when you get here? State
and kidney pie? Cornish pastime on that kidney beans or
(35:31):
actual kidneys from some animal, kidney from animals? Yeah, yeah,
castle whatever we've got hangar, awesome liver and bacon you
got you guys, get past the room temperature beer, then
the kidney isn't bad, so you just get so Shepherd's pie. Yeah,
that's that's a classic. If it's made a real shepherd. Yeah,
(35:52):
I mean if you put beef in it, that's no
good at all. You can't throw love. But I love
Shepherd's right. Of course you did well as Scottage pie.
Unless it's scot Lamb in it, then it's Shepherd's pie
actually the true story. Yeah, and then is that lamb mutton?
It depends how old it is. I think no, no, no,
(36:13):
that's not age. I don't think I's just another name
for lamb, that's all it is. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, Jack,
you're you're the farmer. I have no idea. I don't
eat many steak and ale. Maybe you should ask carry
as a farmer, he's probably a big I ordered mutton.
(36:33):
I was somewhere in the Midwest when I order mutton
one time, and why wouldn't do that? And it had
ground up bone in it? Oh that's nice. Yeah, yeah
it was. I mean there's a couple of parts that
were pretty crunchy. And black pudding of course is the
style of the show. Yeah, you need definitely if you
go to England, which also has like some coagulated blood
or something. Correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's hilarious. Yeah, that's
(36:56):
pig you know, is that what the Beatles were singing.
You know what, I've always wondered why all the English
moved to America? And this is why. This is why
your cuisine is borderline horrible. Kidney steak and kidney and
blood infused black pudding? Is it putting or putting pudding? Okay,
(37:18):
just checking that right? Well, I started the show off,
I am sold me. Apparently Peaky Blinders. I don't know
all those little different It's good. I see that Peaky
Blinders though, so I'll take it. Did you like that show? Yeah?
I mean I've only seen bits of it, but I
like that. What's the guy the head guy in it? Yeah,
I don't know. I seen the closest. I've got his
(37:39):
pepper pig and that's a whole another Definitely, that's the
Piggy's definitely not Peggy blind Is. Yeah, it's a great series,
for sure. You actually yeah, I think you guys would
enjoy it. Good stuff here is really great to have.
Shaggy is a long time friend. Shaggy and I've known
each other for for twenty years. Man, So glad, glad,
let glad you came in here. Pal, I get it you, uh,
(38:01):
I get your gig and where you're working. Um, I
appreciate you coming in here and and uh showing your
face here once in a while, because you're a very
important part of this support that we all love, man,
and you've been extremely successful and you've really made the
brand extremely successful, a huge part of the puzzle. I
know you always default. I've got a great team behind me,
(38:23):
and I'm sure it is a team, but but they're
following a pretty talented guy. So, and I'm proud to
call you my friend, Jack. Thanks for taking the time
to come in here, man, I know you're busy. By
the way. Uh, this show will air here on Thursday.
By the time it airs, Jack will have already won
here in Indianapolis as he is here racing the eight hour,
And I am I okay with saying that, I hope.
So yeah, you know, I wish you the best of
(38:48):
luck for sure, and keep your eyes on the GTD team.
They're they're easy to find. It's a it's a unique
paint job for sure, graphics job, I should say, they
stick out. But best of luck and thanks for taking time, fellows.
We really appreciate it. Chase, guys send next. Thanks for
being with us here on the Skinny. This episode has
been brought to you by Toyota. Rhino classifies Dream Giveaway
(39:10):
and general tire for the latest and sunglasses, optical frames,
accessories and apparel. Be sure to check out batheads dot com.
That's bath Heads with a Z. Production facilities provided by
Fatheads I Wear Studios. All rights reserved. The Skinny with
Rico and Kenna is a production of I heart Radio.
(39:30):
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