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January 7, 2025 16 mins

Stephen A. Smith is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Executive Producer, host of ESPN's First Take, and co-host of NBA Countdown.

Stephen A. and Reporter Tori Cooper discuss WNBA star Angel Reese deleting her Instagram account after backlash for an outfit she posted on New Year’s Eve. They also compare Caitlin and Reese's brands.  

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tory Cooper, the one and only Tory Coop, is here
with me right now.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Listen.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
I usually don't do this, but because it's you, my buddy,
you have some stuff on your mind involving Angel Reese
and what have you. So usually I'm the one that
introduces a subject. But I'm gonna turn around and give
the floor to you since you're hanging out in my
studio and all, I'm gonna get a floor to you, Tory,
take it away.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
What's up? What's on your mind?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, Angel Reese, she's scheduled to play in the new
three on three league that's coming up. The unrivaled basketball
season is starting this month, but she came under some
scrutiny around New Year's Eve because she shared a post
on her Instagram.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
You know, she's had a stellar season.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
This is the video that is actually still on her TikTok,
and she got some pretty serious pushback after sharing this,
and people were pretty unhappy with the way that she
shared this on a public platform. So I wanted to
get your thoughts on this because as a woman in
the industry who has come under her own scrutiny myself,
I have I wanted to hear where you fell on

(01:04):
this issue because she deleted her Instagram. And that's the
most important part about all of this, because clearly she's
uncomfortable with some of the backlash that she's getting because
she deleted her Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, here's the part that I like about the backlash.
Clearly it's something that a lot of people can't take.
So if it's something that you can't take, maybe you
shouldn't expose yourself to the backlash in provoking the backlash.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
You know, I'm glad you're here for this conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
I'm glad you brought it up because here's the reason
why I love adel Reese. I think that adel Reese
is great. I think she's fantastic for the WNBA. I
love the fact that she's participating in this unrivaled league
because she's made it very clear she doesn't want to have.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
To go overseas to play.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
We all know what happened with Britney grind and when
she went to Russia, we all felt like it was
politicized that she was railroaded. We all saw that she
suffered months of her life. Okay, we don't wish that
upon anybody, and we lamented the fact that she had
to go overseas. Not Angel rees but Britney Grinder. She
had to go overseas because like a lot of them
have had to over the years. You got a supplement

(02:15):
your income because the income that you're making at the
WNBA isn't nearly enough. I think when you talk about
the average salary, it was like approximately one hundred and
twenty four thousand if I remember correctly, Well, guess what
the average salary in the NBA is over ten million.
And so when you look at it from that standpoint,
to supplement your income by playing three on three basketball
in the United States and Miami specifically for a few

(02:36):
months where they're talking about doubling the salary that you
were gonna make as a WNBA player, I'm.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
All for that.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
But here's what I have a problem with toy Andrew
Reese in doing the things that she has done. Let's
face reality, she's going to be attached to Caitlin Clarke
to some degree. If Angel Reee had never waved her
hand in her face when LSU was beaten Iowa for

(03:08):
you know, in the final for the National Championship, if
that hadn't happened, Arel Reese's name night now to be
as big. Yes she's a talent, Yes she would have
made the w NBA, But in terms of her popularity,
it really soared after she took down Kitlan Clark, and
then Kaitlyn Clark came back last year and got revenge
by knocking Lsu out in the Elite eight. If I
remember correctly, Caitlyn Clark. The reason I bring up Kaitlyn

(03:30):
Clark is because they're attached at the hit with one another,
which means they're ultimately going to be compared Tory.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
And when you look at Kaitlyn Clark, Kaitlan Clark is bawling.
She's a Rookie of the Year.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
She was one of the finalists for the league MVP
honors as a rookie, breaking all types of records. She
should have been on Team USA. She did choose to
play in an unrivaled league. Her brand building has been
incredibly impressive. Now, we could get into the white black guydynamic,
because inevitably that's inescapable in terms of you being white,

(04:03):
and as a result, it's contributing to your marketability more
so than in ajur Reese.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
We could debate that.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
But what's not debatable is the fact that Caitlyn Clark
has handled her branding extremely well, whereas with aingur Reese
sometimes you find yourself scratching your head and wondering what
the hell she's doing? Like that photo right there. Listen,
I see the way you walk in the game.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Just listen.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
She's a beautiful young lady, and there's a lot of
beautiful young ladies in the WNBA. But when you do that,
you can't come down the line and complain about being
objectified later on. It's not gonna work with people. Whether
it's right or wrong, it's not gonna work. And when
you do stuff like that and you're drawing attention to
yourself because of that, that can be problematic for you,

(04:55):
especially when the comparison is going to be drawn to
Caitlin Clark, who isn't doing such things. That might not
be fair. I'm not saying it is. And you certainly
have the right to dress how you want and to
do what you want and to.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Live your life. But people have a right to have.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
The opinions about what you put on display, and if
they don't like it, and they believe that it's not it's.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Not the right thing.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
For you to be doing when you talk about building
your brand, I don't know how you can argue that, toy.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
That's my struggle.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Well, we have to remember one thing.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
She's not Kaitlin Clark, and we can't ask her to
be anyone else besides herself, and especially not right here.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
We're not going to do that. We want you to
be you.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
We love seeing the great parts of your journey. But
we also have to remember she's twenty two years old,
and I have no problem sharing my age. I'm about
to be thirty two this year, So you know, you
have to remember that we all had this time, and
we've all.

Speaker 4 (05:50):
Made foolish decisions.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
We've made decisions that maybe we're not proud of, you know,
And you have to remember that we're dealing with someone
who's twenty two and is now looking at a million
dollar paycheck potentially. I mean, she's making a lot of
money very fast, and she was just thrust into a spotlight.
And you know, Stephen, when you were twenty two, if
Stephen A was given millions of dollars, could have fancy cars.

(06:17):
You know, I'm sure that you probably had some decisions
that you made that you weren't excited about and that
you're glad that maybe the entire world didn't have to
learn about, you know. So the difference here is that
she's having We're having to watch her all. We're having
to watch her learn this in front of everybody, and
so I want to give her grace in that way.
But I also want to encourage her to bring her
Instagram platform back, because that is her brand and she

(06:39):
built that for the last X number of years and
now she can't use it as a platform to market herself.
But you have to be cognizant that no matter how
you step out of your house, you are now Angel
Reese and you will always be picked apart. Unfortunately, it
comes with the crown.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
You're a queen. You're beautiful, you know.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
So you just have to remember that if you aren't
going to say this, if you're not ready for the heat,
then you know, you just got to be mindful that
what comes with it. It has to be mindful with
what I got.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
I gotta say to you, Tori, I gotta push back
on you a little bit. Okay, I think you're being
a little bit too PC. Let's call it what it is.
I am not trying to say that she should be
criticized or she is wrong. What I'm saying is, by
pulling it down, clearly you felt there was something wrong
with it. Now, yes you are twenty two, Yes you

(07:28):
are young, and there's a lot of things that we
didn't want people to know about when we were her age.
Fair enough, especially me. Okay, because I'm thirty years thirty
plus years removed from that age. I got that part.
There was no social media then or whatever. But here's
my point to you. She knows this social media. She
is not dumb. She's quite a brilliant young lady. She's

(07:49):
very smart, very accomplished, and on top of it all,
she is in this age where she does know social
media exists, and she has exploited it to her advantage.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
And so when you take that into consideration, that.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Means you're mindful of the imagery and the perception that
you're resisting in creating about yourself and you have to.
And I'm saying to you it might have been a
right or wrong decision depending on what she feels and
what other people feel. I'm just saying that what's inescapable
is that it's going even though she's not.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Caitlyn Clark.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
She's going to be reminded she's not Caitlyn Clark with
every good thing that Caitlyn Clark does, because that was
her number one.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Numbersis in a lot of people's odes. Number one, number two.
She was seeing doing various interviews and.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
What have you, talking about threats, talking about insults, crying
about how people were coming at her with such venom
and hostility, particularly in her last year at LSU before
she ultimately graduated to the pros. She brought up all
of these things, which means she was aware of it.
And if you're aware of it, you have to understand
that that's going to be part of the judgment that

(08:59):
comes again you fear or unfair.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
That's what I'm saying, Toy.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
The youth is dealing with this issue.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Many of them believe that the more I share about myself,
the more like I'm liked, I'm gonna be.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
People are gonna know me off the basketball court.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
We want to know you off the basketball court, Steven,
I agree with a lot of the stuff you're talking about,
but I just wanted to make sure we're still showing
her grace and where she's at in her life and
understanding that.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
Look, she is twenty two years old.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Still, you know I'm not saying, but that doesn't get
to the other point that another take that I have
on this where the youth needs to understand that it's
not all about sharing everything, it's about actually keeping a
lot of this stuff intimate in private. Personally, I wouldn't
wear that because that's not the way I want to
be represented.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Okay, I personally personally, to put myself on frustreet, I
wouldn't want my daughter to listen.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
My daughter's gonna be in college in a few years, Troy,
let me tell you something. This is just daddy. This
is just daddy talking.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
Okay, Yeah, I got it.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
My daughter's a full aware Daddy had better damn well
not see an outfit like that on social media.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
Now.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Now, now, I ain't judging ajuries, live your life. I'm
talking about my daughters. I promise you, I promise you.
I better not see that. They could be in college
in la and in Boston or anywhere in between.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Daddy would drop.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
The mic, hopping the car on the plane or wherever
I'll be. That ain't gonna happen. You said, I'm not
having it. That's me so again without judging somebody else.
We understand that everybody's got their own taste. They on flavor,
and certainly they're on rights, but there are other people
that's gonna exercise their rights to be ultra.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Critical about it.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
And then I'm not even talking about the outfit that
Aurice is warn I'm talking about the overall pressure of
having to be compared as a brand to somebody who's
conducting their branding with perfection.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
That's what I'm saying. She's gonna have to deal with that, Tori,
whether she likes it or not.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
She's opening yourself up to every opportunity, is what I
want for Angel Reese.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
I don't want Adidas.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I don't want Nike turning her down because they don't
see her as someone that's marketable, because do you know?

Speaker 4 (11:18):
And that's that's the pain that I had for her
in this.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
But I want her to know if she's listening, we're
excited to still see you bring back that beautiful Instagram
page and just learn from it. And I think this
is a perfect segue because I also want to talk
about the pressures that you face in this realm of
social media at this age, and I am not immune
to it.

Speaker 4 (11:39):
I have had my own.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Issues with this stephen in the industry being thrust into
the spotlight. Yes, and I've thought I showed you the picture,
I texted it to you, and I think it's a
good segue.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Here it is.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
This is the picture. I posted this picture in twenty nineteen.
This is when I had my first anchor job.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
I was excited about the fame.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
I was like, Wow, I want to show people the
less serious side of me, show them I could be relatable.
Maybe a brand will want to do is, you know,
collab with me, Maybe he gets some brand partnerships.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
The news quickly shut this.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Down and they said I got called into HR for
this photo and I was told I had to take
it down because it was suggestive, risque and inappropriate. Now alone,
I never thought that posting a photo like that would
be suggestive, risque and inappropriate.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Really, no, I'm not saying it wasn't inappropriate. Now, it
wasn't inappropriate.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
It wasn't I'm not trying to imply it wasn't inappropriate
or anything like that. But when you post a photo
like that, you do understand that men are gonna look
at that.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
And be like, hey, that that looks very nice.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
You do you get that part of well that comes
with stepping outside in a beanie and a hat, like,
no matter what, I'm going to be subjected to the
beauty that I have periods, So that part I can't
get away from.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
But what I was after in that moment.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
I can honestly tell you was not the certification from
you men.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
I was actually in this moment, I was like, I
would love to get a brand deal. That'd be so cool.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
You know, That's where I was at, and that's the
world you live in a social media at that age,
you know. I mean, I was probably twenty two actually
at that time, and that's what I was after. And
you know, I'm not speaking for Angel Reese. I'm not
saying that's what she was after, but you're I want
to tell you where I was at emotionally.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
I was excited about my fame.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
I was excited to be able to expand into different
realms potentially. But again, look at look at that dress.
You know that that arguably to me appropriate. I didn't
think I was doing anything inappropriate, but apparently HR did so. Hr.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
But I'm saying, but but let me, let me, let
me share this with you. Let me let me share
a little story with you. First of all, let me
say this to you.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
I've given advice to women in this industry more times
than I can count. I have never given advice without asked,
without being asked for it. First, I don't volunte hear it,
but if you ask me, I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Give you advice. And I have told countless women over
the years.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
In this industry, the bosses are always watching, whether directly
or indirectly. There's always eyes on you, okay, And so
you could be in a nice dress, you could be
on a red carpet, you could be on the beach or.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Vacation or whatever.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
What you post is what they're paying attention to because
they're trying to measure what your intentions are based off
of what they see. The other thing that's important to
point out, Tori, is this. Having said all of that,
sometimes they're wrong. A lot of times they might be wrong.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
But you know what the golden rule is those who
have the gold. Those who have the gold make the rules,
and so it fluctuates. It shouldn't, but it does.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
And there's rules that they don't want to We don't
want to act like it. There's rules for women, there's
rules for black people, there's rules for other folks. Some
folks don't have rules compared to what others have, and
we continuously point to the level of unfairness that exist,
but we ultimately always end up concluding it's inevitable, and

(15:26):
so you have to be mindful of it all moving
forward in this industry.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
That's what I had to say about that.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Younger kids right now are also not able to see
forty years from now. You know, you post that photo,
You're not thinking what's this going to do to me?

Speaker 4 (15:42):
For forty years from now? You know, think about that.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
You know when you post this, what's gonna happen to
my sponsorship? And my last thing is if you're a
young member of society today and you have social media
and you are at big time, just remember that you
need to have advisors around you, paid advisors as well
as people who knew.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
You before your face.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's great advice.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Because Beyonce, she had her mom on Dour and her
cousin right out the gate.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
I want to pay.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
She wanted eyes around her who were paying attention to
the world she was going to be living in, and
the people right now, who are going through this, who
are facing these moments, who are thrust into the spotlight.
Take a look at your advisors around you. Do they
have your best interest? And if you do get pushed
back in this way, ask yourself the people who were
the people around me during that time and what do
they say about this? And keep that in mind because

(16:31):
your reputation at the end of the day, you have
the power over that.
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Stephen A. Smith

Stephen A. Smith

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