September 16, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, Lisa breaks down the shocking assassination of Charlie Kirk and what it reveals about the rise of political violence in America. She’s joined by journalist and author Andy Ngo (Unmasked), who exposes Antifa’s radicalization strategies, the media’s minimization of left-wing extremism, and the ties between Antifa and radical transgender activism. Together, they discuss why accountability for leftist militants remains elusive and why Americans must take the growing threat of left-wing violence seriously. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get
to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today,
we're talking about Charlie. Like so many people in Republican circles.
I got to know Charlie. He was an exceptional man.
I'm sure you're feeling the same way. But my heart
has just been broken. It's just been breaking over the
past few days.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The only thing heartening.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
By it is seeing the millions of people around the
world turned to God, turn to Jesus Christ, and also
to be more bold in their beliefs. I'm sure you're
seeing it as well. It's been a gut check for
so many of us to look at a thirty one
year old man who had so much purpose in his life.
He knew exactly why God put him on this earth,
(00:44):
he knew exactly what his mission in life was. He
loved his family, he loved his wife, He treated people
with respect.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So you know, what are the rest of us doing.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm sure you're feeling it to this tug on your
heart about you know what's my mission?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Am I doing enough?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So just want to knowledge that and let you guys
know that I'm feeling the same pain that you are
after losing Charlie Kirk. On that note, I don't know
about you, but I'm so sick and tired of the
media trying to both sides this. The bullets have been
flying in one direction. We've seen the attempted assassination of
Steve Scleeze and other Republicans in twenty seventeen, the attempted
(01:20):
assassination of Justice Brett Kavanaugh, two attempted assassinations against President Trump,
and then the assassination of Charlie Kirk. So we're going
to dig into that both sides nonsense. We're also going
to dig into the radicalization of Charlie Kirk's assassin.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Was Charlie's killer tied to Antifa? Was the roommate?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
We're going to dig into all this with someone who
really wrote the book on Antifa's violence, Andy No. He's
the author of Unmasked Inside Antifa's radical Plan to Destroy Democracy.
So we're going to tackle all of these big issues
with someone who, unfortunately has seen Antifa's violence and the
(02:03):
radical lefts violence up front, who's been attacked. Who else
better to speak to about all of this than someone
who has seen the evil of the left up close.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Stay tuned for any No.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, Andy, thanks for taking the time to join the show.
It's been a while since we've caught up and just
really looking forward to hearing your insight into this conversation.
It's a sad one and a scary one, but you know,
you've got a lot of unique insight into it, so
we appreciate you making.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
The time my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
As we look at obviously it's been a few days
since Charlie was assassinated, we're learning more about his killer
and the killer's roommate. What what ties to Antifa do
you think they have or to what degree were they radicalized?
You know, I know you've been doing a lot of
independent reporting as well. What have you learned so far
(03:05):
in which we know?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
So I watched the live press conference when the name
of the suspect who's apprehended was released by Governor Cox,
and Governor Cox also stated what was written on the
rifle cartridges and the first reference being hey fascist exclamation mark,
(03:30):
catch exclamation mark? You know my eyes open is like
that's there's very little space to write on four cartridges.
And this is basically unless we find a manifesto. I
think this is going to be the manifesto, so the
limited space was used for that particular choice of wards.
(03:50):
And then when the governor quoted from one of the
other cartridges, which were the lyrics of Belichow, like my
jaw dropped like this was a very specific dog whistle
to anti film in particular. Belich How is an old
(04:11):
Italian folk song and it was used by those during
the Second World War who oppose fascism in Hitler, and
in the decade since, lattists and communists and Antifa have
adopted it anti film in particular, they put it in
their slogans and chants, on their plat cards, in their
(04:35):
social media profiles. It's like their unofficial theme song. You
can think of it that way. And in twenty nineteen,
the Tacoma Antifa gunman who died shooting up an ice
facility in Washington State in his manifesto, he also referenced
the same lyric. So I immediately like, that's what stood out
(05:00):
to me. And then of course there were these other
game references on some of the other cartridges in refurry
reference as well. So in the media hours after that,
I was trying my best to combat the lies and
misinformation that was being put out by a leftists online,
which unfortunately was then laundered into mainstream media La Times
(05:25):
in particular, and then on the Wikipedia and therefore Google
and AI which said that oh, the Belachau was actually
being used ironically in a far right in the manner
and that maybe the suspect is actually a far right
white nationalist, a Christian nationalist.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And I looked at.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
The evidence that they presented for that, and there was none.
The evidence was a Spotify playlist was five followers that
was I think it was. It was called them or
Groyper or something like that on the playlist, and it
had the song on it remixed in a dance version
amongst dozens of other songs. And this is an account
(06:10):
that has no connection to the suspect, and it was
just put out there as hey, like, maybe he meant
it in this way, and a lot of people believe
that online. So with that, we've learned other things. I
wasn't particularly surprised when Fox News first reported that, according
(06:35):
to sources, it was suspected that the roommate of the
suspect is not just a roommate but likely a lover
and who was transgender, and it did some on my
own digging, spoke to a source who gave me a
suspected user name of the roommate that was being used
(06:59):
on Steam. So with that news tip, I went in
and I dug in and on Steam, which is a
gaming platform where you can buy video games and play
video games, you can look on the username history, and
so the current username of the news tip I got
was flux at Ale and then I looked at the
(07:20):
history and one of it was a variation of Lancelot,
and so I did some searches and it led me
with those exact old usernames to a TikTok that was
still active, a TikTok which had a video which showed
the face of the lover of the suspect gunman, and
(07:43):
so I was able to tie together, Oh, this was
his absolutely his account.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And then I did more digging.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
He used some of those old usernames also on Reddit,
and saw that Oh, he talked extensively about being transgender,
about being on cross sex hormones, about his dislike of Christianity.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So this is a picture coming together.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And I know that there's been reporting that the FBI
is probing to see if the accused was motivated in part.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Because of his support for radical.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Transgender ideology, and also that there are left wing groups
who are being looked into, one who deleted its social
media presence immediately after the shooting. So these are lines
of inquiries that the FBI is doing. According to press reports,
(08:43):
and my impression of the profile that's coming out of
the suspect is that it seems like he may have
been radicalized into some of the anti fear ideology that's
steeped into the wider culture. He seems to have been
a type of person who, from what we know, who
(09:06):
was online a lot and was a big gamer, much
like the lover.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And I have not seen any other evidence.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Either through other reporting or through my own findings, that
he was involved with a militant cell.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Whoever, I did see.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
That New York Posts reported that in recent weeks that
there were individuals allegedly coming in and out of that
apartment in Saint George, Utah, which I mean, I'm paying
attention to that sometimes with this violent extreamist radicalization, it
(09:45):
could happen very fast. We've already know according to what
his family has allegedly said to the press and to
investigators that for quite a long time he had been
left wing, and The Guardian did report that a person
who formerly friends with him in high school that he
was becoming quite radical as far back as his sophomore
(10:06):
year of high school.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You know, we we hear the term trantifa.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I know John Lott with a crime prevention research center
told me about the transgender are overrepresented in committing mass murders,
are about seven times more than their share of the population.
That was after the Minnesota uh mass you know, mass
murder at the church. You know, with Trentifa, how tied
(10:31):
are like the transgender community to antifa is?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know, what's the overlap there?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I guess so.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Uh. Trantifa was the term that I coined, and it
was to describe the phenomenon that I observed actually five
years ago from my on the ground reporting about Antifa.
I just at that time anecdotally, not even not not
even ancdotally. This is good the data because there were
so many arrests. But by twenty twenty one, so there
(11:03):
were six months of riots in Portland after George Floyd died,
there were about a thousand arrestees.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
That's a really huge data set.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
For one city that had such radicalization in people who
were participating in an insurrection against the government for the
cause of so called Nancy fun BLM, And on some
nights it was ten percent of the arrestees were somehow
gender diverse, which is a very large number. I mean,
(11:33):
you know, estimates that academics have done on the American
population is maybe half a percent is gender diverse identifying,
which is much bigger than how it used to be.
So the number is growing, but it's not ten percent,
but on many other nights it was twenty percent up
to a third. And actually I'm seeing the same phenomenon
(11:57):
happen with my tracking of the dozens who have been
arrested and charged in the ongoing riots happening currently outside
the ICE facility in Portland, Oregon, where I'm originally from.
So there's an observable phenomenon, and I think maybe what
maybe explaining that is that Antifa broadly as an ideology
(12:26):
movement mutates and it changes with what's happening in wider society.
So back in twenty eleven, around that time, it was
very much around Antifa movement was against was about opposition
to like world trade, wto conferences and like internationalist type
(12:57):
events that were happening. If it happened to be hosted
in the US or somewhere in Europe, they would be
targeted for violence because they viewed the liberal international order
as fascist, which they wanted to destroy. But starting around
twenty fifteen sixteen, then it latched on to BLM as
(13:17):
well as opposition Trump. That's how it mutated next, and
it was aided by mainstream media. Your listeners will not
be surprised about that. The propaganda that was coming out
day in and day out for BLM really radicalized a
lot of people. And also the propaganda lies against Trump's
first administration also radicalized people to join some of these
(13:39):
militant networks. And then starting I would say probably around
twenty twenty, how it's mutated as BLAMA has become out
of vogue is that it's focused on transgenderism and the
(14:02):
rhetoric that the transactivists are using or they're claiming that
they are opposing fascism, that they're so called denial of
their ability to groom children into transgender ideology, that that's fascist,
that the US government is fascist, and that they are
(14:25):
victims of a genocide.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And that type of propaganda.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Has characterized not just fringe transactivism, but actually mainstream if
you go to any of their demonstrations, Lisa, maybe you've
seen some of these pictures online of the type of
signs and shirts that they wear, trans rights or else,
and then pictures of rifles and firearms and knives.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Just pretty much being very clear about what the els is. Right,
got to take a quick.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Commercial break more with Andy on the other side. How
do they organize?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Andy? Like, how how organized is Antifa? Like, how how
does it spread?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
What's sort of like the radical what have you learned
about kind of like the radicalization process?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Like how does antifa work as a network.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
So first, it's about ideology. It's a Greedin's ideology. The
US is wicked. The world order led by America is
an imperialistic system that oppresses people of color, oppresses black bodies,
this is their language, oppresses trans bodies, that strips women
(15:37):
of their bodily body autonomy, autonomy, and is out there
to to empower fascist and white supremacists. And therefore it's
up to people who pose that to fight back in
(15:58):
any way they can.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So the tactics are really wide.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I focus on the violent criminal aspect of it, because
I find that that's unfortunately ignored. But there's also a
lot of non violent organizing around it, and that involves
things like disseminating the propaganda, making it, making the texts.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
That they print out.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
They have booklets and texts which are used to radicalize
people at They quite often have anarchist or radical so
called book fairs, which are sometimes just tables that are
set up in a park in some city. It happens
a lot in this literature is used to introduce really radical,
(16:45):
extreme theory in a distilled, simple way that like a
young reader, including maybe even a teenager, could read and
just become radicalized. And it's at first it's about fighting
for immigrant rights and for black lives, but you just
turn a few of the pages and it's like, oh,
how that fighting actually works? Is direct action, direct action
(17:09):
against the state, and the goal is to overthrow the
US government. And just a number of weeks ago, there
was a shooting on an ice facility in North Texas
in Alvarado, and there was a local officer who was
shot in the neck, and the militants who are arrested
and have been charged federally as well as locally are
(17:32):
accused of being part of the cell and have looked
into them and they're part of the North Texas Antifah
network and reading the federal criminal complaint when one of
the suspects was arrested after the shooting, allegedly in an
effort to destroy some evidence, they found a whole box
of these radical texts in literature about overthrowing the government.
(17:56):
And that is characteristic of how that propaganda is disseminated
on the ground. Of course, now with social media, it's
disseminated massively online, so it's it's out on every front
that's on the radical and then you have the role
of the mainstream media in repeating various versions of the lies.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You know, Andy, President Trump said that he was asked
if he would designate ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist organization.
He said, one hundred percent, I would do that. Should
he do that, isn't HEFA a domestic terrorist organization?
Speaker 4 (18:37):
So I saw a lot of people were excited about that,
the yeahs.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I want people to remember that.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Actually Trump said the same thing in his first administration.
I believe it was in twenty twenty actually or maybe
twenty nineteen that he had declared Antifad terrorist organization, and
it's legally it doesn't do much more than act as
(19:05):
a statement. I think a number of issues come up immediately. One,
what does that even mean because in the sense that
the US, our legal system at the federal and state
level does not have the government has no ability to
(19:27):
actually ban groups based on ideology, which is different from
Europe in the UK. In Europe they can ban specific
organizations based on ideology. In the US you can't. You
run into First Amendment issues immediately. Second answer for organization,
(19:47):
the way that ansiph organizes, people have to really think
of it. Similar to radical Islam. You can't ban radical Islam.
You can ban specific groups that organize around the For example,
Al Qaeda is being involved in that is criminal. In
the US, being involved as Islamic State is criminal. But
(20:10):
those are like specific organizations. And the way that Antipha
organizes that it's dispersed amongst so many decentralized cells. A
lot of them don't even have names, and they do
it all intentionally to be quote unquote non organized.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
There are groups like Rose City.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Antifha, which is importand and they are involved in assault
on me and other groups in different cities. However, in
the last five years, a lot of those accounts on
their websites and social media have gone actually pretty quiet,
and they don't organize openly with the banners and such
that they used to with their organization name. Instead, they'll
(20:54):
use the symbols of Antifah as some of the signs,
but rather than the name of the organization. I think
they fear, for example, that they could get prosecuted under
things like RICO or conspiracy charges, which has happened, by
the way, there's a blueprint. Two years ago in San
Diego County they were able to convict in sentenced twelve
(21:18):
members of SoCal Antifa. That story received no national tension.
Very few people even know about it.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, I'd to be honest, I didn't know about it.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah, I mean that was the case that took years
of prosecution, prosecutors uncovered, it went to trial. By the way,
all the evidence of organizing so that Ultra actually quite
rattled a lot of the organized antifook groups like.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Now, what they try to do more so is that
in a way similar to what Islamic State did at
their height, they would release the propaganda online. Do you
remember they had like these PDFs you could download. It
was in all these languages. You could go on their
social media and just read any of it. Come radicalize yourself,
And that really is sort of the tactic that they
(22:05):
are encouraging their radicals and ideologues to do that. You
don't formally organize under a group name. You believe the
same thing, and if you can connect with other people
online and then in real life who believe it, then
do that, but do not organize as like an actual group.
(22:25):
So I to sum up, it's a nice sentiment I
guess you could say from Trump, because I guess the
point what matters is that he recognizes that this should
be a priority and that something needs to be done.
The role of the DOJ, I think is going to
be it's much more nuanced and how they navigate First
(22:47):
Amendment issues right, because part of the antifa appeal is
that it can draw in people who think that they're
just I'm part of the antiphah because I'm an anti fascist.
I've seen that a lot those are from people who
are not really actually involved, but they would still identify
with it. So there are a lot of legal nuances
(23:11):
to weave through.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I've got to take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
If you like what you're hearing, please share on social
media or send it to a friend or family member.
You've spent a ton of time just on the ground
and also researching all this in your book Unmasked Inside
Antifa's Radical Plan of Destroy Democracy. You've also been a
target of Antifa repeatedly. Walk us through just what you've
(23:36):
seen up close, Like how dangerous are these people? Obviously
they're extremely hateful, you know, just kind of tell us
a little bit about the evilness that you've seen on
the ground and also being a subject of the violence
as well.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Or victim.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, you know, it took assaults for me to kind
of really understand how extreme and violent these militants were.
Like unfortunately, it took that, I think a part of
me for a few years in the early years when
I were reporting on them, like in twenty sixteen and seventeen,
(24:16):
I do them more as kind of just street thugs
who would mask up and riot and vandalize. And I
didn't quite understand that when they're they called for the
overthrow of the US government, overthrow of America and its ideals,
and they used to violent rhetoric around that they actually
(24:38):
really truly meant it. I think what people have to
I hope people are waking up and learning is that
the far left, the militant left, Antifa and other ideologies
on the left, they mean what they say.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
They don't hide it.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
They want Their goal is to win by any means necessary.
So the warfare is asymmetric, if you can think of it.
It's like they're not engaging in the rules of battle
where you don't do this or you don't do that.
You know, like they're willing to do anything and everything
if you lying, for one, putting out disinformation, intimidating even
(25:26):
targets that are lower level by doxing, releasing their addresses
where their family lives, releasing pictures like those are some
of the lower level things. And then they have tactics
and methods to escalate.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Towards killing and in terror attacks.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
And there's been a number of number of them who
have been committed by self described Antifa ideologues, and people
don't really know about the names because there's a whole system,
an apparatus, so who describe it that protects them. And
we saw it play out in the last couple of
days too, after Charlie Kirk's assassination.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Is that.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Lies about left wing violence or the ignoring of it
or both. In twenty nineteen, there was a school shooting
by an Antifa member in Eugene, Oregon. He died in
the shooting because there was a school resource officer fortunately
that shot him, and nobody even really knows about that case.
(26:32):
I mentioned already already the Tacoma ice shooter in Washington State.
In Portland in twenty twenty, there was a Antifa gunman
who assassinated a Trump supporter in downtown Portland during one
of the riots, and the way the media had reported
on that afterward was that the victim who was shot
(26:57):
dead was far right and was a suggestion that he
also somehow deserved it. So there's been a number of
these attacks, and I I think actually what is most
dangerous about all of that is not just obviously those
(27:17):
who are capable and are committing acts of violent criminality,
but how they are protected by a much much larger system,
The role of democrats in that Democrats who are elected
to office prosecutors, for example, who let out left wing
(27:38):
violent criminals. That happened in Portland, that happens in Seattle.
People always ask me what happened to all these thousand
people who arrested out the riots. Well, the prosecutor would
immediately drop the case. They would be released out of
jail immediately, no bail anything, So they would just return
to riot again.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
They get arrested, let out case, case drop.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
And then if the prosecutor Sonny able to drop the
case because it's such a violent felony, multiple violent felonies,
you have liberal judges who will dismiss the case.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Or allow a plea deal where.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
The person who commits let's say, multiple violent felony arson
attacks gets probation only and then there's a chance for
the record to be a sponge like that. That is
a system that protects him. And of course the press,
they're all of the press liars in the press, sociopassic
(28:35):
journalists who lie.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
That is the part that concerns.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Me, because you know, any country is going to deal
with some fringe of extremists who are willing to kill
but when you have a much larger system that protects him.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
In the mainstream.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
We've seen how many people, for example, white collar positions
who celebrated the assassination of mister Cook, and we're calling
for it to happen more and sometimes two specific individuals
to happen to next.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
That's great. I hope it is eye opening.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
No, it's it's been extremely eye opening before we go.
You know, obviously to your point about the media, there's
really this effort to both sides. You know, what happened
to Charlie that you know, Oh, it's we've got to
stop violence overall on both sides. And you know, is
there both sides to this political violence in the country
(29:34):
or or you know, I guess what do we know
about where it's coming from? Is it a both sides
issue or is it more specific to the left.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
So this is a deflection tactic that those on the
left do when they when when they're not able to
get away with the lie that the accused terrorists or
accused killer is uh is right wing, when they can't
lie about that anymore, and Max slot the evidence and
they say, well, okay, he may be last wing, but
(30:04):
look at all this this research that's been done about
the real threats in America. And they always cite these
same few studies that are done by liberal organizations, liberal
nonprofits that have had liberal funders written by so called
academics or researchers who are on the left. Some of
them are even Antifa sympathetic researchers, I would argue, And
(30:30):
the issue is a methodology for it's very hard to
categorize politically motivated crimes simply as like last wing or
right wing. I'll give you a few examples, and then
you and then I'll explain how this stuff gets excluded
from the data for a reason, and then a certain
(30:52):
narrative can emerge once you eliminate enough of the data.
You know, there's been a number of killings that are
quite that happened somewhat routinely somewhere in America where a
black suspect accused of a homicide may have made a
reference to race, for example, may have said something anti semitic.
(31:14):
There were a few killings a few years ago in
Jersey City, for example, by a black nationalist suspect and
his partner.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Where where do you map that on? Do you map
that left or right?
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Because in the in the sort of the eyes and
ears of the of the leftist academics, when they think
of racist, they think a right wing. But when it's
a black person who's accused of that. Where do you
map it? Oh, they exclude that data. It doesn't really
fit into this data set. What about jihadism. It's religious fundamentalism,
(31:49):
but it's also Islam, which is called by the left.
So do you map that on left or right? Oh,
will exclude that. You know, we that that doesn't fit
into the data set. And then when you keep excluding things,
then you can find what you want to include. And
that's what happens with some of these screenshots that are
coming out of these charts that are showing it's a
(32:11):
deflection tactic. You know, this is not a game or
race about arguing who's more evil than who. There's a
lot of evil and wickedness in the United States, a
lot of violent people who are willing to kill and
have killed. What really disturbs me is the denial when
it happens on the left. It's kind of like they
(32:34):
don't want to admit that it happens because they know
in some part that they play a role in creating
this environment where their political opponents can be dehumanized with impunity.
And there's some research that's coming out now, particularly after
(32:58):
several high profiles asassination attempts and successful assassinations in the
US that.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Has polled.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Surveyed, I should say left wing and right wing respondents
asking for their views on is it acceptable to assassinate
Donald Trump? For example, one study at a out of
a research organization at Rutgers found that over fifty percent
(33:27):
of those who identified as left of center said yes,
it's justifiable in some way. So that that is the
data that these people don't want you to see.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And very disturbing.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Go check out Unmasked and sign Antifa's radical plan to
destroy Democracy, Who is a bestseller? Andy, thanks so much
for taking the time. I learned so much from you
in this conversation. Stay safe and will continue to look
out for your work. So we really appreciate you in
the time. This was so interesting. I learned a lot
from you.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Thank you, and my substock is ngocomment dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
That was Andy No.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week. I also want
to thank John Cassio and my producer for putting the
show together.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Until next time,
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get
to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today,
we're talking about Charlie. Like so many people in Republican circles.
I got to know Charlie. He was an exceptional man.
I'm sure you're feeling the same way. But my heart
has just been broken. It's just been breaking over the
past few days.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The only thing heartening.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
By it is seeing the millions of people around the
world turned to God, turn to Jesus Christ, and also
to be more bold in their beliefs. I'm sure you're
seeing it as well. It's been a gut check for
so many of us to look at a thirty one
year old man who had so much purpose in his life.
He knew exactly why God put him on this earth,
(00:44):
he knew exactly what his mission in life was. He
loved his family, he loved his wife, He treated people
with respect.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So you know, what are the rest of us doing.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm sure you're feeling it to this tug on your
heart about you know what's my mission?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Am I doing enough?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So just want to knowledge that and let you guys
know that I'm feeling the same pain that you are
after losing Charlie Kirk. On that note, I don't know
about you, but I'm so sick and tired of the
media trying to both sides this. The bullets have been
flying in one direction. We've seen the attempted assassination of
Steve Scleeze and other Republicans in twenty seventeen, the attempted
(01:20):
assassination of Justice Brett Kavanaugh, two attempted assassinations against President Trump,
and then the assassination of Charlie Kirk. So we're going
to dig into that both sides nonsense. We're also going
to dig into the radicalization of Charlie Kirk's assassin.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Was Charlie's killer tied to Antifa? Was the roommate?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
We're going to dig into all this with someone who
really wrote the book on Antifa's violence, Andy No. He's
the author of Unmasked Inside Antifa's radical Plan to Destroy Democracy.
So we're going to tackle all of these big issues
with someone who, unfortunately has seen Antifa's violence and the
(02:03):
radical lefts violence up front, who's been attacked. Who else
better to speak to about all of this than someone
who has seen the evil of the left up close.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Stay tuned for any No.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, Andy, thanks for taking the time to join the show.
It's been a while since we've caught up and just
really looking forward to hearing your insight into this conversation.
It's a sad one and a scary one, but you know,
you've got a lot of unique insight into it, so
we appreciate you making.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
The time my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
As we look at obviously it's been a few days
since Charlie was assassinated, we're learning more about his killer
and the killer's roommate. What what ties to Antifa do
you think they have or to what degree were they radicalized?
You know, I know you've been doing a lot of
independent reporting as well. What have you learned so far
(03:05):
in which we know?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
So I watched the live press conference when the name
of the suspect who's apprehended was released by Governor Cox,
and Governor Cox also stated what was written on the
rifle cartridges and the first reference being hey fascist exclamation mark,
(03:30):
catch exclamation mark? You know my eyes open is like
that's there's very little space to write on four cartridges.
And this is basically unless we find a manifesto. I
think this is going to be the manifesto, so the
limited space was used for that particular choice of wards.
(03:50):
And then when the governor quoted from one of the
other cartridges, which were the lyrics of Belichow, like my
jaw dropped like this was a very specific dog whistle
to anti film in particular. Belich How is an old
(04:11):
Italian folk song and it was used by those during
the Second World War who oppose fascism in Hitler, and
in the decade since, lattists and communists and Antifa have
adopted it anti film in particular, they put it in
their slogans and chants, on their plat cards, in their
(04:35):
social media profiles. It's like their unofficial theme song. You
can think of it that way. And in twenty nineteen,
the Tacoma Antifa gunman who died shooting up an ice
facility in Washington State in his manifesto, he also referenced
the same lyric. So I immediately like, that's what stood out
(05:00):
to me. And then of course there were these other
game references on some of the other cartridges in refurry
reference as well. So in the media hours after that,
I was trying my best to combat the lies and
misinformation that was being put out by a leftists online,
which unfortunately was then laundered into mainstream media La Times
(05:25):
in particular, and then on the Wikipedia and therefore Google
and AI which said that oh, the Belachau was actually
being used ironically in a far right in the manner
and that maybe the suspect is actually a far right
white nationalist, a Christian nationalist.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And I looked at.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
The evidence that they presented for that, and there was none.
The evidence was a Spotify playlist was five followers that
was I think it was. It was called them or
Groyper or something like that on the playlist, and it
had the song on it remixed in a dance version
amongst dozens of other songs. And this is an account
(06:10):
that has no connection to the suspect, and it was
just put out there as hey, like, maybe he meant
it in this way, and a lot of people believe
that online. So with that, we've learned other things. I
wasn't particularly surprised when Fox News first reported that, according
(06:35):
to sources, it was suspected that the roommate of the
suspect is not just a roommate but likely a lover
and who was transgender, and it did some on my
own digging, spoke to a source who gave me a
suspected user name of the roommate that was being used
(06:59):
on Steam. So with that news tip, I went in
and I dug in and on Steam, which is a
gaming platform where you can buy video games and play
video games, you can look on the username history, and
so the current username of the news tip I got
was flux at Ale and then I looked at the
(07:20):
history and one of it was a variation of Lancelot,
and so I did some searches and it led me
with those exact old usernames to a TikTok that was
still active, a TikTok which had a video which showed
the face of the lover of the suspect gunman, and
(07:43):
so I was able to tie together, Oh, this was
his absolutely his account.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And then I did more digging.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
He used some of those old usernames also on Reddit,
and saw that Oh, he talked extensively about being transgender,
about being on cross sex hormones, about his dislike of Christianity.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So this is a picture coming together.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And I know that there's been reporting that the FBI
is probing to see if the accused was motivated in part.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Because of his support for radical.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Transgender ideology, and also that there are left wing groups
who are being looked into, one who deleted its social
media presence immediately after the shooting. So these are lines
of inquiries that the FBI is doing. According to press reports,
(08:43):
and my impression of the profile that's coming out of
the suspect is that it seems like he may have
been radicalized into some of the anti fear ideology that's
steeped into the wider culture. He seems to have been
a type of person who, from what we know, who
(09:06):
was online a lot and was a big gamer, much
like the lover.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And I have not seen any other evidence.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Either through other reporting or through my own findings, that
he was involved with a militant cell.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Whoever, I did see.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
That New York Posts reported that in recent weeks that
there were individuals allegedly coming in and out of that
apartment in Saint George, Utah, which I mean, I'm paying
attention to that sometimes with this violent extreamist radicalization, it
(09:45):
could happen very fast. We've already know according to what
his family has allegedly said to the press and to
investigators that for quite a long time he had been
left wing, and The Guardian did report that a person
who formerly friends with him in high school that he
was becoming quite radical as far back as his sophomore
(10:06):
year of high school.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You know, we we hear the term trantifa.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I know John Lott with a crime prevention research center
told me about the transgender are overrepresented in committing mass murders,
are about seven times more than their share of the population.
That was after the Minnesota uh mass you know, mass
murder at the church. You know, with Trentifa, how tied
(10:31):
are like the transgender community to antifa is?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know, what's the overlap there?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I guess so.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Uh. Trantifa was the term that I coined, and it
was to describe the phenomenon that I observed actually five
years ago from my on the ground reporting about Antifa.
I just at that time anecdotally, not even not not
even ancdotally. This is good the data because there were
so many arrests. But by twenty twenty one, so there
(11:03):
were six months of riots in Portland after George Floyd died,
there were about a thousand arrestees.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
That's a really huge data set.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
For one city that had such radicalization in people who
were participating in an insurrection against the government for the
cause of so called Nancy fun BLM, And on some
nights it was ten percent of the arrestees were somehow
gender diverse, which is a very large number. I mean,
(11:33):
you know, estimates that academics have done on the American
population is maybe half a percent is gender diverse identifying,
which is much bigger than how it used to be.
So the number is growing, but it's not ten percent,
but on many other nights it was twenty percent up
to a third. And actually I'm seeing the same phenomenon
(11:57):
happen with my tracking of the dozens who have been
arrested and charged in the ongoing riots happening currently outside
the ICE facility in Portland, Oregon, where I'm originally from.
So there's an observable phenomenon, and I think maybe what
maybe explaining that is that Antifa broadly as an ideology
(12:26):
movement mutates and it changes with what's happening in wider society.
So back in twenty eleven, around that time, it was
very much around Antifa movement was against was about opposition
to like world trade, wto conferences and like internationalist type
(12:57):
events that were happening. If it happened to be hosted
in the US or somewhere in Europe, they would be
targeted for violence because they viewed the liberal international order
as fascist, which they wanted to destroy. But starting around
twenty fifteen sixteen, then it latched on to BLM as
(13:17):
well as opposition Trump. That's how it mutated next, and
it was aided by mainstream media. Your listeners will not
be surprised about that. The propaganda that was coming out
day in and day out for BLM really radicalized a
lot of people. And also the propaganda lies against Trump's
first administration also radicalized people to join some of these
(13:39):
militant networks. And then starting I would say probably around
twenty twenty, how it's mutated as BLAMA has become out
of vogue is that it's focused on transgenderism and the
(14:02):
rhetoric that the transactivists are using or they're claiming that
they are opposing fascism, that they're so called denial of
their ability to groom children into transgender ideology, that that's fascist,
that the US government is fascist, and that they are
(14:25):
victims of a genocide.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And that type of propaganda.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Has characterized not just fringe transactivism, but actually mainstream if
you go to any of their demonstrations, Lisa, maybe you've
seen some of these pictures online of the type of
signs and shirts that they wear, trans rights or else,
and then pictures of rifles and firearms and knives.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Just pretty much being very clear about what the els is. Right,
got to take a quick.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Commercial break more with Andy on the other side. How
do they organize?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Andy? Like, how how organized is Antifa? Like, how how
does it spread?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
What's sort of like the radical what have you learned
about kind of like the radicalization process?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Like how does antifa work as a network.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
So first, it's about ideology. It's a Greedin's ideology. The
US is wicked. The world order led by America is
an imperialistic system that oppresses people of color, oppresses black bodies,
this is their language, oppresses trans bodies, that strips women
(15:37):
of their bodily body autonomy, autonomy, and is out there
to to empower fascist and white supremacists. And therefore it's
up to people who pose that to fight back in
(15:58):
any way they can.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So the tactics are really wide.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I focus on the violent criminal aspect of it, because
I find that that's unfortunately ignored. But there's also a
lot of non violent organizing around it, and that involves
things like disseminating the propaganda, making it, making the texts.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
That they print out.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
They have booklets and texts which are used to radicalize
people at They quite often have anarchist or radical so
called book fairs, which are sometimes just tables that are
set up in a park in some city. It happens
a lot in this literature is used to introduce really radical,
(16:45):
extreme theory in a distilled, simple way that like a
young reader, including maybe even a teenager, could read and
just become radicalized. And it's at first it's about fighting
for immigrant rights and for black lives, but you just
turn a few of the pages and it's like, oh,
how that fighting actually works? Is direct action, direct action
(17:09):
against the state, and the goal is to overthrow the
US government. And just a number of weeks ago, there
was a shooting on an ice facility in North Texas
in Alvarado, and there was a local officer who was
shot in the neck, and the militants who are arrested
and have been charged federally as well as locally are
(17:32):
accused of being part of the cell and have looked
into them and they're part of the North Texas Antifah
network and reading the federal criminal complaint when one of
the suspects was arrested after the shooting, allegedly in an
effort to destroy some evidence, they found a whole box
of these radical texts in literature about overthrowing the government.
(17:56):
And that is characteristic of how that propaganda is disseminated
on the ground. Of course, now with social media, it's
disseminated massively online, so it's it's out on every front
that's on the radical and then you have the role
of the mainstream media in repeating various versions of the lies.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You know, Andy, President Trump said that he was asked
if he would designate ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist organization.
He said, one hundred percent, I would do that. Should
he do that, isn't HEFA a domestic terrorist organization?
Speaker 4 (18:37):
So I saw a lot of people were excited about that,
the yeahs.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I want people to remember that.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Actually Trump said the same thing in his first administration.
I believe it was in twenty twenty actually or maybe
twenty nineteen that he had declared Antifad terrorist organization, and
it's legally it doesn't do much more than act as
(19:05):
a statement. I think a number of issues come up immediately. One,
what does that even mean because in the sense that
the US, our legal system at the federal and state
level does not have the government has no ability to
(19:27):
actually ban groups based on ideology, which is different from
Europe in the UK. In Europe they can ban specific
organizations based on ideology. In the US you can't. You
run into First Amendment issues immediately. Second answer for organization,
(19:47):
the way that ansiph organizes, people have to really think
of it. Similar to radical Islam. You can't ban radical Islam.
You can ban specific groups that organize around the For example,
Al Qaeda is being involved in that is criminal. In
the US, being involved as Islamic State is criminal. But
(20:10):
those are like specific organizations. And the way that Antipha
organizes that it's dispersed amongst so many decentralized cells. A
lot of them don't even have names, and they do
it all intentionally to be quote unquote non organized.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
There are groups like Rose City.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Antifha, which is importand and they are involved in assault
on me and other groups in different cities. However, in
the last five years, a lot of those accounts on
their websites and social media have gone actually pretty quiet,
and they don't organize openly with the banners and such
that they used to with their organization name. Instead, they'll
(20:54):
use the symbols of Antifah as some of the signs,
but rather than the name of the organization. I think
they fear, for example, that they could get prosecuted under
things like RICO or conspiracy charges, which has happened, by
the way, there's a blueprint. Two years ago in San
Diego County they were able to convict in sentenced twelve
(21:18):
members of SoCal Antifa. That story received no national tension.
Very few people even know about it.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, I'd to be honest, I didn't know about it.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah, I mean that was the case that took years
of prosecution, prosecutors uncovered, it went to trial. By the way,
all the evidence of organizing so that Ultra actually quite
rattled a lot of the organized antifook groups like.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Now, what they try to do more so is that
in a way similar to what Islamic State did at
their height, they would release the propaganda online. Do you
remember they had like these PDFs you could download. It
was in all these languages. You could go on their
social media and just read any of it. Come radicalize yourself,
And that really is sort of the tactic that they
(22:05):
are encouraging their radicals and ideologues to do that. You
don't formally organize under a group name. You believe the
same thing, and if you can connect with other people
online and then in real life who believe it, then
do that, but do not organize as like an actual group.
(22:25):
So I to sum up, it's a nice sentiment I
guess you could say from Trump, because I guess the
point what matters is that he recognizes that this should
be a priority and that something needs to be done.
The role of the DOJ, I think is going to
be it's much more nuanced and how they navigate First
(22:47):
Amendment issues right, because part of the antifa appeal is
that it can draw in people who think that they're
just I'm part of the antiphah because I'm an anti fascist.
I've seen that a lot those are from people who
are not really actually involved, but they would still identify
with it. So there are a lot of legal nuances
(23:11):
to weave through.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I've got to take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
If you like what you're hearing, please share on social
media or send it to a friend or family member.
You've spent a ton of time just on the ground
and also researching all this in your book Unmasked Inside
Antifa's Radical Plan of Destroy Democracy. You've also been a
target of Antifa repeatedly. Walk us through just what you've
(23:36):
seen up close, Like how dangerous are these people? Obviously
they're extremely hateful, you know, just kind of tell us
a little bit about the evilness that you've seen on
the ground and also being a subject of the violence
as well.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Or victim.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, you know, it took assaults for me to kind
of really understand how extreme and violent these militants were.
Like unfortunately, it took that, I think a part of
me for a few years in the early years when
I were reporting on them, like in twenty sixteen and seventeen,
(24:16):
I do them more as kind of just street thugs
who would mask up and riot and vandalize. And I
didn't quite understand that when they're they called for the
overthrow of the US government, overthrow of America and its ideals,
and they used to violent rhetoric around that they actually
(24:38):
really truly meant it. I think what people have to
I hope people are waking up and learning is that
the far left, the militant left, Antifa and other ideologies
on the left, they mean what they say.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
They don't hide it.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
They want Their goal is to win by any means necessary.
So the warfare is asymmetric, if you can think of it.
It's like they're not engaging in the rules of battle
where you don't do this or you don't do that.
You know, like they're willing to do anything and everything
if you lying, for one, putting out disinformation, intimidating even
(25:26):
targets that are lower level by doxing, releasing their addresses
where their family lives, releasing pictures like those are some
of the lower level things. And then they have tactics
and methods to escalate.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Towards killing and in terror attacks.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
And there's been a number of number of them who
have been committed by self described Antifa ideologues, and people
don't really know about the names because there's a whole system,
an apparatus, so who describe it that protects them. And
we saw it play out in the last couple of
days too, after Charlie Kirk's assassination.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Is that.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Lies about left wing violence or the ignoring of it
or both. In twenty nineteen, there was a school shooting
by an Antifa member in Eugene, Oregon. He died in
the shooting because there was a school resource officer fortunately
that shot him, and nobody even really knows about that case.
(26:32):
I mentioned already already the Tacoma ice shooter in Washington State.
In Portland in twenty twenty, there was a Antifa gunman
who assassinated a Trump supporter in downtown Portland during one
of the riots, and the way the media had reported
on that afterward was that the victim who was shot
(26:57):
dead was far right and was a suggestion that he
also somehow deserved it. So there's been a number of
these attacks, and I I think actually what is most
dangerous about all of that is not just obviously those
(27:17):
who are capable and are committing acts of violent criminality,
but how they are protected by a much much larger system,
The role of democrats in that Democrats who are elected
to office prosecutors, for example, who let out left wing
(27:38):
violent criminals. That happened in Portland, that happens in Seattle.
People always ask me what happened to all these thousand
people who arrested out the riots. Well, the prosecutor would
immediately drop the case. They would be released out of
jail immediately, no bail anything, So they would just return
to riot again.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
They get arrested, let out case, case drop.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
And then if the prosecutor Sonny able to drop the
case because it's such a violent felony, multiple violent felonies,
you have liberal judges who will dismiss the case.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Or allow a plea deal where.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
The person who commits let's say, multiple violent felony arson
attacks gets probation only and then there's a chance for
the record to be a sponge like that. That is
a system that protects him. And of course the press,
they're all of the press liars in the press, sociopassic
(28:35):
journalists who lie.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
That is the part that concerns.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Me, because you know, any country is going to deal
with some fringe of extremists who are willing to kill
but when you have a much larger system that protects him.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
In the mainstream.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
We've seen how many people, for example, white collar positions
who celebrated the assassination of mister Cook, and we're calling
for it to happen more and sometimes two specific individuals
to happen to next.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
That's great. I hope it is eye opening.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
No, it's it's been extremely eye opening before we go.
You know, obviously to your point about the media, there's
really this effort to both sides. You know, what happened
to Charlie that you know, Oh, it's we've got to
stop violence overall on both sides. And you know, is
there both sides to this political violence in the country
(29:34):
or or you know, I guess what do we know
about where it's coming from? Is it a both sides
issue or is it more specific to the left.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
So this is a deflection tactic that those on the
left do when they when when they're not able to
get away with the lie that the accused terrorists or
accused killer is uh is right wing, when they can't
lie about that anymore, and Max slot the evidence and
they say, well, okay, he may be last wing, but
(30:04):
look at all this this research that's been done about
the real threats in America. And they always cite these
same few studies that are done by liberal organizations, liberal
nonprofits that have had liberal funders written by so called
academics or researchers who are on the left. Some of
them are even Antifa sympathetic researchers, I would argue, And
(30:30):
the issue is a methodology for it's very hard to
categorize politically motivated crimes simply as like last wing or
right wing. I'll give you a few examples, and then
you and then I'll explain how this stuff gets excluded
from the data for a reason, and then a certain
(30:52):
narrative can emerge once you eliminate enough of the data.
You know, there's been a number of killings that are
quite that happened somewhat routinely somewhere in America where a
black suspect accused of a homicide may have made a
reference to race, for example, may have said something anti semitic.
(31:14):
There were a few killings a few years ago in
Jersey City, for example, by a black nationalist suspect and
his partner.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Where where do you map that on? Do you map
that left or right?
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Because in the in the sort of the eyes and
ears of the of the leftist academics, when they think
of racist, they think a right wing. But when it's
a black person who's accused of that. Where do you
map it? Oh, they exclude that data. It doesn't really
fit into this data set. What about jihadism. It's religious fundamentalism,
(31:49):
but it's also Islam, which is called by the left.
So do you map that on left or right? Oh,
will exclude that. You know, we that that doesn't fit
into the data set. And then when you keep excluding things,
then you can find what you want to include. And
that's what happens with some of these screenshots that are
coming out of these charts that are showing it's a
(32:11):
deflection tactic. You know, this is not a game or
race about arguing who's more evil than who. There's a
lot of evil and wickedness in the United States, a
lot of violent people who are willing to kill and
have killed. What really disturbs me is the denial when
it happens on the left. It's kind of like they
(32:34):
don't want to admit that it happens because they know
in some part that they play a role in creating
this environment where their political opponents can be dehumanized with impunity.
And there's some research that's coming out now, particularly after
(32:58):
several high profiles asassination attempts and successful assassinations in the
US that.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Has polled.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Surveyed, I should say left wing and right wing respondents
asking for their views on is it acceptable to assassinate
Donald Trump? For example, one study at a out of
a research organization at Rutgers found that over fifty percent
(33:27):
of those who identified as left of center said yes,
it's justifiable in some way. So that that is the
data that these people don't want you to see.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And very disturbing.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Go check out Unmasked and sign Antifa's radical plan to
destroy Democracy, Who is a bestseller? Andy, thanks so much
for taking the time. I learned so much from you
in this conversation. Stay safe and will continue to look
out for your work. So we really appreciate you in
the time. This was so interesting. I learned a lot
from you.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Thank you, and my substock is ngocomment dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
That was Andy No.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week. I also want
to thank John Cassio and my producer for putting the
show together.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Until next time,
Host
Lisa Boothe
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