April 15, 2024 • 20 mins
In this episode, Lisa talks to The Heritage Foundation's EJ Antoni about the impact of inflation and rising prices on Americans under the Biden administration. EJ compares the economies under Trump and Biden, highlighting the negative effects of higher home prices and interest rates. The conversation also touches on Biden's plans to cancel student loan debt and the potential tools he may use to boost the economy. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The economy is a top issue for Americans heading into
this presidential election, with the majority of Americans believing and
feeling like they were better off under Donald Trump than
they are now under Joe Biden. So what is fueling that,
you know, what is fueling this inflation that we're seeing
in this country as well? And how does Trump's economy
(00:21):
stack up against Joe Biden's. We're going to ask EJ.
And Tony, a research fellow for the Heritage Foundation, he's
also a public finance economist about all of this. Also,
get his take on younger voters under thirty going for Trump,
how much of that has to do with increased home
costs and just this economy at large. Also, we're going
(00:43):
to get into something that's not being discussed as much,
Joe Biden's job numbers being fueled by immigrants, all of
that more with the heritages ej Antoni. Well, EJ, thanks
for coming back on. It's nice to have you on
the show.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, Lisa, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me again.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So I don't think the economic news has gotten any better,
but we'll get into it. Nonetheless, you know, we see
that inflation is up three point five percent over last year.
You know, overall prices are up nineteen point four percent
percent since Joe Biden took office. How has that impacted Americans.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's been pretty devastating, Lisa, especially when you factor in
not just the price increases, but now also the interest
rate increases. And the reason I bring that second piece
up is because so many people had to adapt to
these higher prices by either going out and getting more work,
or if they couldn't, if they weren't able to make
(01:48):
enough to have ends meet, then they still had to
go into debt after depleting their savings. So now with
that additional debt load, these higher interest rates have caused
the cost of service that debt. In other words, you're
like your monthly finance charges on things like your credit
card statements to absolutely explode. American families today are paying
(02:09):
about two hundred and fifty billion dollars a year just
an interest on their credit cards. That's just one type
of debt, and it's just the interest. We're not talking
about paying down the principle. So you combine these higher
prices with higher prices, I should say that I've risen
faster than wages with these higher interest costs, and you're
(02:29):
looking at for the typical American family about an eight
thousand dollars loss compared to January of twenty twenty one.
In other words, in a little more than three years,
you feel like you're eight thousand dollars poor a year.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know, as we head into the twenty twenty four election,
even you know more as it starts to accelerate as
we get closer. You see that the economy is a
top issue for Americans. Joe Biden's upside down on the issue.
There's been pullings showing that the majority of Americans feel
like they were better off under Trump than they are
now under Biden. I guess, how would you compare the
(03:05):
two economies, the one we had under Trump and then
the one we have now under Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, I think you have to look at how the
typical American was doing. And you saw wages for good
paying blue collar jobs rising much faster than prices under
President Trump, and you've seen exactly the opposite under Biden.
You saw the cost to own a home relative to
the size of people's incomes go down under Trump, it
(03:33):
has exploded under Biden. You mentioned those inflation statistics at
the start of the show. I mean, one of the
things that is grossly understated in those inflation numbers is
the cost to own a home. According to the Consumer
Price Index, that cost is up about twenty percent over
the last three years. But if you actually use real
(03:53):
world data instead of their crazy methodology, so look at
home prices, look at interest rates, look at things like
property taxes, home insurance rates, et cetera, you find that
the actual cost is up somewhere between eighty and one
hundred percent, in other words, four to five times what
the quote unquote official government metrics says. And so not
(04:15):
only do the statistics look better under Trump compared to Biden,
but I think the real world experience that Americans have
was way better under Trump than under Biden. At least
I think that helps explain why, even though the economic
numbers have improved at least slightly the last several months,
maybe under Biden. They are the polling that when people
(04:37):
when we ask folks, okay, how do you feel about
the economy, it remains horrible. And it's because people's lived
experience has been horrible, much worse than the official data
would suggest.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You know, we're saying Trump do much better with voters
under thirty. I think, in part personally, just because a
lot of young people are realizing, you know, what is
my future if you know this economy continues the way
that it is. Now. You had mentioned the increased cost
of what it takes to own a home. What's behind that?
You know, what do you think is driving that?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It's this deadly combination of very high home prices and
very high interest rates. Now, I should say, you know, historically,
if we were to ask our grandparents, a our great grandparents,
what do you think of a seven or eight percent mortgage?
They were said, yeah, that's normal. But we've gotten used
to these artificially low interest rates that the FED has
imposed for you know, twenty twenty five years, and so
(05:29):
this is a shock to the system, if you will.
But basically, Lisa, when the government went out and spent
trillions of dollars, it didn't have it caused inflation, that
caused prices to rise everywhere. But because the FED had
kept rates so low, close to zero, it meant that
people could continuously bid up the price of homes and
pay almost nothing in interest each month. So all they
(05:50):
were having to pay in that monthly payment was the
price of the home, so you caused home prices to
go out much faster than the average price. Then the
FED imposes higher rates to deal with the inflation that
it helped cause. So now you have this combination of
high rates and high prices, which means your monthly mortgage
payment has gone through the roof. But if you look
(06:12):
at what's happened with people who already owned a home,
or who got a home, I should say in let's
say twenty twenty or even twenty twenty one, when rates
were rock bottom, but before home prices went up. If
you sell that home today you want to move, let's say,
maybe have a job, a job offer to go somewhere else,
you now are going to lose that mortgage and you
have to get a new mortgage at today's mortgage rates,
(06:34):
which means you need to sell your home at a
huge premium in order to have a big enough down
payment to have a small enough mortgage that counteracts the
higher mortgage rates. So this means that the supply of
existing homes has been severely crunched. At the same time,
these high input costs from the inflation have caused the
(06:56):
construction cost to build a home to also go through
the roof, and those higher prices have really also put
a damper on construction of new homes. So you're getting
this double whammy where the supply of existing homes or
used homes and the supply of new homes have also
have both come way down. And so this this has
severely hamstrung the market to the point where prices just
(07:19):
can't come down, even though interest rates remain really high.
So at the end of the day, if you were
to summarize all of that in a single word, unaffordability.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Joe Biden's announced that he's going to cancel a student
loan debt for twenty three million people, which really just
means the rest of us are paying for it. What
do you think Joe Biden's going to try to do
one to sort of buy votes, like he's doing with that,
but also to try to like boost the economy temporarily.
You know, what sort of tools do you think he's
going to use? You know, kind of what does that
look like to you?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, listening to him today at that just horrendous excuse
for a press conference where he was literally reading the
questions and the answers off prepared pre prepared note cards.
It was a But then he has the audacity to
say that, oh, the Fed's still going to cut rates.
Who are you? You don't set monetary policy. Or maybe
he does and we just don't know it. But whatever
(08:11):
the case, I think it's very clear they are exerting
a tremendous amount of pressure on the Fed to cut
rates before the election, to try to give exactly that
economic boost you were just talking about, Lisa, to try to,
you know, put lipstick on the pig before the election,
and then after the first Tuesday in November it doesn't matter.
Then then they can hike rates back up again. Then
(08:33):
we can find out that the jobs numbers were all
a lie all along, that inflation has been much worse
than we were told. Right, they just have to get
through election day at this point.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I mean, how much lipstick can you put on the
pig in this instance?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That's a great question. I mean, if you ask the
folks in the White House, they think that the sky's
the limit. But I think the average American is really
seeing through it. I think they've seen through it for
quite a while now, you know, lying to people in
telling folks don't believe you're lying, eyes, don't believe you're
empty wallets. I mean, that only works for so long,
and I think we're past that point. There was just
(09:08):
a I think it was on MSNBC. I didn't watch
it because I like preserving my brain cells, but I
saw it reviewed by a different news outlet where there
was this panel of voters, all of whom voted for Biden,
and now all of whom are saying, for purely economic reasons,
they refuse to do so again because they have just
been hurt so dramatically by the failed public policies of
(09:32):
this administration.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Quick break more with ej Antoni on the other side.
One big issue that doesn't get discussed as much as
Biden's job growth in the country being fueled by migrants.
What should people know about that?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Well, if you're an if you're a typical American, you're
a native born American, you're an American citizen, you have
really been left behind in the economy of the last
four years. And you can actually compare the employment of
Native born Americans today to where it was before the pandemic.
We have lost so much ground that figure is down
(10:10):
by a million so there are a million fewer native
born Americans employed. Well, where have all these jobs gone?
Who is getting all of these jobs? It is all
foreign born workers. And a couple of estimates, including some
by large financial firms, have pegged the figure at about
two thirds of all jobs created since February of twenty
(10:32):
twenty have gone to not just the foreign born, but
illegal aliens specifically. And what was it, I think it
was only a few weeks ago, right, Lisa, that Tyson
Foods I believe, announced that they were firing all of
these Americans in order to HIE in order to hire foreigners. Now,
in that case, presumably they're going to have working papers
(10:53):
and whatnot, but it doesn't matter at the end of
the day. You are putting foreigners before Americans. I'm sorry,
but we did not elect our representatives to go to
DC to put other citizens of other countries before us.
This is absolutely appalling.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
And also I would assume that you know, that'll be
also reflected in the sentiment on the economy in the country,
because if people aren't getting these jobs, then they're not
feeling you know, even if you say, oh, the X
amount of job growth, Americans aren't feeling that because they're
not getting those jobs.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Exactly, Lisa. That is such a great point when you
are polling likely voters and asking them, how do you
feel about the economy? Well, if they're not the ones
getting the jobs, what do you think is going to
be the response? Obviously it's going to be the case
then that they are not happy with the economy because
they're not the ones getting any of the benefits, but
they're still the ones stuck paying the higher costs from
(11:47):
your inflation.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Mister President, what do you think are some of the
big economic issues that don't get discussed enough in your opinion?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Oh goodness, I think one of the really big ones
is the fact that the treasury borrowing at the breakneck
pace it is is going to have some very catastrophic effects,
not just in terms of inflation, but also in terms
of financial markets. You can't underestimate I think just how
much Janet Yellen is sucking all the air out of
(12:16):
the room with these massive treasury auctions. Shortly after we
got those terrible inflation numbers for the CPI, the Treasury
did a ten year auction, meaning they were auctioning off
these treasury notes which are going to be repaid in
ten years and it was absolutely horrendous. And so what
(12:37):
you were seeing is investors continuously demanding more and more
in terms of compensation to loan to the government because
they have zero confidence that they are going to get
back dollars that are worth much. And as that continues happening,
the treasury is forced to offer higher and higher interest rates,
(12:57):
which will pull in more investors. We're pulling investors out
of other investments. So right before, for example, we had
the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and others, what was
going on with treasuries a very similar phenomenon, And the
effects I think this time are going to be very
similar to as you suck all of this liquidity out
(13:19):
of locations where it's currently being used and is currently needed,
you're going to have some very disastrous effects on financial markets.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And of course, the spending doesn't look to be, you know,
slowing down at all. You know, I think is budget
It looks like I think there's like a seven point
three trillion dollar budget request proposal for a fisk gear
fiscal year twenty twenty five. I guess what does that
mean for the future of the country.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
More of the same. I wish it was something other
than that, Lisa, But this point you bring up is
so important. The size of government spending is what's driving this.
You know, the government, as much as they can create
money out of thin air, they can't create value out
of thin air. And so as they continue to expend
more and more in terms of value, that value has
(14:04):
to come from somewhere. It is coming out of your
hide right now through the hidden tax of inflation, but
it's also coming out of future production, future output, which
means it's going to be paid for by future generations.
We are basically shackling ourselves with unpayable levels of debt.
I mean, this is getting genuinely scary. And I look,
(14:25):
I'm not a perma bear. I'm not one of those
people who for the last ten or twenty years has
been saying, oh, the end is near, We're spending too
much money.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
No, this is a big economy and it can support
a whole hell of a lot of government spending, but
not at these levels. I mean, we are to the
point now where if you look at mandatory government spending
and then let's also throw in interest on the debt,
since that's effectively mandatory spending as well, no discretionary spending.
So I'm not even including major categories like defense here.
(14:55):
We're just talking about the spending that is essentially baked
into the cake, if you will, that already exceeds all
government tax revenue. In other words, we have a deficit
to begin with, and all of the additional spending that
they want to pile on with these ridiculous seven trillion
dollar budgets, it is just adding fuel and fuel on
(15:17):
the fire.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
We're being told that the odds of a US recession
have dropped a little bit. I think I read somewhere
that it's dropped to thirty three percent. They're saying, or
the strong economic data is cut the chance of an
economic downturn in the next year to thirty three percent
according to Bankrate. Do you buy that? You know, how
(15:39):
close to a recession are we? You know, what kind
of do you think the next few months are going
to look like for the economy.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's a really good question. I think one of the
things that's important to remember, Lisa is that you can
put off a technical recession for a really, really long
time if you're willing to have the government and the
consumer alike go into massive amounts of debt in order
to keep up spending levels. Well, that's pretty much what
we've been seeing for quite a while. Now we're seeing
(16:06):
household debt explode. The national debt obviously is exploding. It's
over thirty four point six trillion dollars. We have never
had a mortgage debt, credit card debt, etc. At the
levels we have them today, despite the fact that interest
rates again have marched pretty steadily higher. And so what's
happening is, as you continue to borrow from the future,
(16:28):
you are continuing to draw that spending and that production
into today. But eventually it's all got to get paid for.
And the problem is that the further you kick this
can down the road, the worse the eventual drop becomes.
That's one of the reasons why, for example, when Alan
Greenspan continuously kept rates artificially low in the early two thousands,
the housing collapse and the global financial crisis were as
(16:52):
bad as they were in two thousand and seven, eight
and nine, because they kept kicking the can down the
road instead of allowing the free mark market to resolve
these problems, they kept putting it off, and every time
they did it snowballed a little bit more and more,
and sadly that's what's happening today.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
How much change could happen in four years under Trump?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
A few ends, I think a lot, for a couple
of reasons. One is that I think he is so
incredibly angry, and rightfully so right we're talking about a
righteous anger here at all of the bad actors in
the bureaucracy, the so called deep state, who did so
much to undermine him and destroy him, both both personally
(17:37):
and professionally, as well as politically. Obviously, I think he
is so angry at those people he will do everything
to destroy the bureaucracy, which is a huge part of
not revenge, but of actually righting the ship here and
getting us back onto a path to prosperity. But I
think the president, the former president, is also a little
wiser today. I think he has learned who in Congress
(18:00):
he can and more importantly, who he cannot trust. He
was promised, let's not forget, by Republicans in Congress that look,
mister President, if we just passed this one really big budget,
we promised to deliver all the spending cuts you want
next the next go around. And he went along with it,
and then the next go around came and Republicans in
Congress refused to up hold their end of the bargain,
(18:22):
and then the next year Nancy Pelosi was in charge
in the House, so at that point it didn't even matter.
But I think the president, both in terms of the
House and also the Senate, he has a better feel
for again who he can and who he can't trust,
and I think that's going to be invaluable in terms
of getting that spending down.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Fingers crossed from your lips to God's ears. So, EJ,
there is there anything else you'd like to leave us
with before we go?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah. I think one of the things that just echoing
something we said earlier, Lisa, this idea that to the
American people, the message is, look, you are not crazy.
Don't believe all of these headlines that keep telling you. Look,
things aren't that bad. It's fine. I was debating someone
earlier today actually, who was saying that, oh yo, these
late latest inflation rates, they are way down from where
(19:08):
they were in twenty twenty two, So we should be grateful, grateful?
Are you kidding me? Prices right now are rising at
such a pace that prices will double in fifteen and
a half years. I should be grateful for that. A
baby born today, by the even before they're old enough
to vote, prices will have doubled in their lifetime. That's
(19:29):
appalling and anyone who tries telling you that's acceptable is
a liar. And any bureaucrat who thinks that's okay needs
to resign immediately.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
EJ with a Heritage Foundation, appreciate you taking the time
Before we go. Where can people follow your work?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
The best place to find me is going to be
on x or Twitter whatever we call it these days,
and the handle there is at real EJ and.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Tony awesome, Ejy, appreciate you taking the time. Always good
to have you on Lisa.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It's my pleasure. Thank you again for having.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Me there was EJ and Tony with a Heritage Foundation
him from making the time every Monday and Thursday, but
you can listen throughout the week. I want to thank
John Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until
next time,
The economy is a top issue for Americans heading into
this presidential election, with the majority of Americans believing and
feeling like they were better off under Donald Trump than
they are now under Joe Biden. So what is fueling that,
you know, what is fueling this inflation that we're seeing
in this country as well? And how does Trump's economy
(00:21):
stack up against Joe Biden's. We're going to ask EJ.
And Tony, a research fellow for the Heritage Foundation, he's
also a public finance economist about all of this. Also,
get his take on younger voters under thirty going for Trump,
how much of that has to do with increased home
costs and just this economy at large. Also, we're going
(00:43):
to get into something that's not being discussed as much,
Joe Biden's job numbers being fueled by immigrants, all of
that more with the heritages ej Antoni. Well, EJ, thanks
for coming back on. It's nice to have you on
the show.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, Lisa, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me again.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So I don't think the economic news has gotten any better,
but we'll get into it. Nonetheless, you know, we see
that inflation is up three point five percent over last year.
You know, overall prices are up nineteen point four percent
percent since Joe Biden took office. How has that impacted Americans.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's been pretty devastating, Lisa, especially when you factor in
not just the price increases, but now also the interest
rate increases. And the reason I bring that second piece
up is because so many people had to adapt to
these higher prices by either going out and getting more work,
or if they couldn't, if they weren't able to make
(01:48):
enough to have ends meet, then they still had to
go into debt after depleting their savings. So now with
that additional debt load, these higher interest rates have caused
the cost of service that debt. In other words, you're
like your monthly finance charges on things like your credit
card statements to absolutely explode. American families today are paying
(02:09):
about two hundred and fifty billion dollars a year just
an interest on their credit cards. That's just one type
of debt, and it's just the interest. We're not talking
about paying down the principle. So you combine these higher
prices with higher prices, I should say that I've risen
faster than wages with these higher interest costs, and you're
(02:29):
looking at for the typical American family about an eight
thousand dollars loss compared to January of twenty twenty one.
In other words, in a little more than three years,
you feel like you're eight thousand dollars poor a year.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know, as we head into the twenty twenty four election,
even you know more as it starts to accelerate as
we get closer. You see that the economy is a
top issue for Americans. Joe Biden's upside down on the issue.
There's been pullings showing that the majority of Americans feel
like they were better off under Trump than they are
now under Biden. I guess, how would you compare the
(03:05):
two economies, the one we had under Trump and then
the one we have now under Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, I think you have to look at how the
typical American was doing. And you saw wages for good
paying blue collar jobs rising much faster than prices under
President Trump, and you've seen exactly the opposite under Biden.
You saw the cost to own a home relative to
the size of people's incomes go down under Trump, it
(03:33):
has exploded under Biden. You mentioned those inflation statistics at
the start of the show. I mean, one of the
things that is grossly understated in those inflation numbers is
the cost to own a home. According to the Consumer
Price Index, that cost is up about twenty percent over
the last three years. But if you actually use real
(03:53):
world data instead of their crazy methodology, so look at
home prices, look at interest rates, look at things like
property taxes, home insurance rates, et cetera, you find that
the actual cost is up somewhere between eighty and one
hundred percent, in other words, four to five times what
the quote unquote official government metrics says. And so not
(04:15):
only do the statistics look better under Trump compared to Biden,
but I think the real world experience that Americans have
was way better under Trump than under Biden. At least
I think that helps explain why, even though the economic
numbers have improved at least slightly the last several months,
maybe under Biden. They are the polling that when people
(04:37):
when we ask folks, okay, how do you feel about
the economy, it remains horrible. And it's because people's lived
experience has been horrible, much worse than the official data
would suggest.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You know, we're saying Trump do much better with voters
under thirty. I think, in part personally, just because a
lot of young people are realizing, you know, what is
my future if you know this economy continues the way
that it is. Now. You had mentioned the increased cost
of what it takes to own a home. What's behind that?
You know, what do you think is driving that?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It's this deadly combination of very high home prices and
very high interest rates. Now, I should say, you know, historically,
if we were to ask our grandparents, a our great grandparents,
what do you think of a seven or eight percent mortgage?
They were said, yeah, that's normal. But we've gotten used
to these artificially low interest rates that the FED has
imposed for you know, twenty twenty five years, and so
(05:29):
this is a shock to the system, if you will.
But basically, Lisa, when the government went out and spent
trillions of dollars, it didn't have it caused inflation, that
caused prices to rise everywhere. But because the FED had
kept rates so low, close to zero, it meant that
people could continuously bid up the price of homes and
pay almost nothing in interest each month. So all they
(05:50):
were having to pay in that monthly payment was the
price of the home, so you caused home prices to
go out much faster than the average price. Then the
FED imposes higher rates to deal with the inflation that
it helped cause. So now you have this combination of
high rates and high prices, which means your monthly mortgage
payment has gone through the roof. But if you look
(06:12):
at what's happened with people who already owned a home,
or who got a home, I should say in let's
say twenty twenty or even twenty twenty one, when rates
were rock bottom, but before home prices went up. If
you sell that home today you want to move, let's say,
maybe have a job, a job offer to go somewhere else,
you now are going to lose that mortgage and you
have to get a new mortgage at today's mortgage rates,
(06:34):
which means you need to sell your home at a
huge premium in order to have a big enough down
payment to have a small enough mortgage that counteracts the
higher mortgage rates. So this means that the supply of
existing homes has been severely crunched. At the same time,
these high input costs from the inflation have caused the
(06:56):
construction cost to build a home to also go through
the roof, and those higher prices have really also put
a damper on construction of new homes. So you're getting
this double whammy where the supply of existing homes or
used homes and the supply of new homes have also
have both come way down. And so this this has
severely hamstrung the market to the point where prices just
(07:19):
can't come down, even though interest rates remain really high.
So at the end of the day, if you were
to summarize all of that in a single word, unaffordability.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Joe Biden's announced that he's going to cancel a student
loan debt for twenty three million people, which really just
means the rest of us are paying for it. What
do you think Joe Biden's going to try to do
one to sort of buy votes, like he's doing with that,
but also to try to like boost the economy temporarily.
You know, what sort of tools do you think he's
going to use? You know, kind of what does that
look like to you?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, listening to him today at that just horrendous excuse
for a press conference where he was literally reading the
questions and the answers off prepared pre prepared note cards.
It was a But then he has the audacity to
say that, oh, the Fed's still going to cut rates.
Who are you? You don't set monetary policy. Or maybe
he does and we just don't know it. But whatever
(08:11):
the case, I think it's very clear they are exerting
a tremendous amount of pressure on the Fed to cut
rates before the election, to try to give exactly that
economic boost you were just talking about, Lisa, to try to,
you know, put lipstick on the pig before the election,
and then after the first Tuesday in November it doesn't matter.
Then then they can hike rates back up again. Then
(08:33):
we can find out that the jobs numbers were all
a lie all along, that inflation has been much worse
than we were told. Right, they just have to get
through election day at this point.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I mean, how much lipstick can you put on the
pig in this instance?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That's a great question. I mean, if you ask the
folks in the White House, they think that the sky's
the limit. But I think the average American is really
seeing through it. I think they've seen through it for
quite a while now, you know, lying to people in
telling folks don't believe you're lying, eyes, don't believe you're
empty wallets. I mean, that only works for so long,
and I think we're past that point. There was just
(09:08):
a I think it was on MSNBC. I didn't watch
it because I like preserving my brain cells, but I
saw it reviewed by a different news outlet where there
was this panel of voters, all of whom voted for Biden,
and now all of whom are saying, for purely economic reasons,
they refuse to do so again because they have just
been hurt so dramatically by the failed public policies of
(09:32):
this administration.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Quick break more with ej Antoni on the other side.
One big issue that doesn't get discussed as much as
Biden's job growth in the country being fueled by migrants.
What should people know about that?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Well, if you're an if you're a typical American, you're
a native born American, you're an American citizen, you have
really been left behind in the economy of the last
four years. And you can actually compare the employment of
Native born Americans today to where it was before the pandemic.
We have lost so much ground that figure is down
(10:10):
by a million so there are a million fewer native
born Americans employed. Well, where have all these jobs gone?
Who is getting all of these jobs? It is all
foreign born workers. And a couple of estimates, including some
by large financial firms, have pegged the figure at about
two thirds of all jobs created since February of twenty
(10:32):
twenty have gone to not just the foreign born, but
illegal aliens specifically. And what was it, I think it
was only a few weeks ago, right, Lisa, that Tyson
Foods I believe, announced that they were firing all of
these Americans in order to HIE in order to hire foreigners. Now,
in that case, presumably they're going to have working papers
(10:53):
and whatnot, but it doesn't matter at the end of
the day. You are putting foreigners before Americans. I'm sorry,
but we did not elect our representatives to go to
DC to put other citizens of other countries before us.
This is absolutely appalling.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
And also I would assume that you know, that'll be
also reflected in the sentiment on the economy in the country,
because if people aren't getting these jobs, then they're not
feeling you know, even if you say, oh, the X
amount of job growth, Americans aren't feeling that because they're
not getting those jobs.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Exactly, Lisa. That is such a great point when you
are polling likely voters and asking them, how do you
feel about the economy? Well, if they're not the ones
getting the jobs, what do you think is going to
be the response? Obviously it's going to be the case
then that they are not happy with the economy because
they're not the ones getting any of the benefits, but
they're still the ones stuck paying the higher costs from
(11:47):
your inflation.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Mister President, what do you think are some of the
big economic issues that don't get discussed enough in your opinion?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Oh goodness, I think one of the really big ones
is the fact that the treasury borrowing at the breakneck
pace it is is going to have some very catastrophic effects,
not just in terms of inflation, but also in terms
of financial markets. You can't underestimate I think just how
much Janet Yellen is sucking all the air out of
(12:16):
the room with these massive treasury auctions. Shortly after we
got those terrible inflation numbers for the CPI, the Treasury
did a ten year auction, meaning they were auctioning off
these treasury notes which are going to be repaid in
ten years and it was absolutely horrendous. And so what
(12:37):
you were seeing is investors continuously demanding more and more
in terms of compensation to loan to the government because
they have zero confidence that they are going to get
back dollars that are worth much. And as that continues happening,
the treasury is forced to offer higher and higher interest rates,
(12:57):
which will pull in more investors. We're pulling investors out
of other investments. So right before, for example, we had
the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and others, what was
going on with treasuries a very similar phenomenon, And the
effects I think this time are going to be very
similar to as you suck all of this liquidity out
(13:19):
of locations where it's currently being used and is currently needed,
you're going to have some very disastrous effects on financial markets.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And of course, the spending doesn't look to be, you know,
slowing down at all. You know, I think is budget
It looks like I think there's like a seven point
three trillion dollar budget request proposal for a fisk gear
fiscal year twenty twenty five. I guess what does that
mean for the future of the country.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
More of the same. I wish it was something other
than that, Lisa, But this point you bring up is
so important. The size of government spending is what's driving this.
You know, the government, as much as they can create
money out of thin air, they can't create value out
of thin air. And so as they continue to expend
more and more in terms of value, that value has
(14:04):
to come from somewhere. It is coming out of your
hide right now through the hidden tax of inflation, but
it's also coming out of future production, future output, which
means it's going to be paid for by future generations.
We are basically shackling ourselves with unpayable levels of debt.
I mean, this is getting genuinely scary. And I look,
(14:25):
I'm not a perma bear. I'm not one of those
people who for the last ten or twenty years has
been saying, oh, the end is near, We're spending too
much money.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
No, this is a big economy and it can support
a whole hell of a lot of government spending, but
not at these levels. I mean, we are to the
point now where if you look at mandatory government spending
and then let's also throw in interest on the debt,
since that's effectively mandatory spending as well, no discretionary spending.
So I'm not even including major categories like defense here.
(14:55):
We're just talking about the spending that is essentially baked
into the cake, if you will, that already exceeds all
government tax revenue. In other words, we have a deficit
to begin with, and all of the additional spending that
they want to pile on with these ridiculous seven trillion
dollar budgets, it is just adding fuel and fuel on
(15:17):
the fire.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
We're being told that the odds of a US recession
have dropped a little bit. I think I read somewhere
that it's dropped to thirty three percent. They're saying, or
the strong economic data is cut the chance of an
economic downturn in the next year to thirty three percent
according to Bankrate. Do you buy that? You know, how
(15:39):
close to a recession are we? You know, what kind
of do you think the next few months are going
to look like for the economy.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's a really good question. I think one of the
things that's important to remember, Lisa is that you can
put off a technical recession for a really, really long
time if you're willing to have the government and the
consumer alike go into massive amounts of debt in order
to keep up spending levels. Well, that's pretty much what
we've been seeing for quite a while. Now we're seeing
(16:06):
household debt explode. The national debt obviously is exploding. It's
over thirty four point six trillion dollars. We have never
had a mortgage debt, credit card debt, etc. At the
levels we have them today, despite the fact that interest
rates again have marched pretty steadily higher. And so what's
happening is, as you continue to borrow from the future,
(16:28):
you are continuing to draw that spending and that production
into today. But eventually it's all got to get paid for.
And the problem is that the further you kick this
can down the road, the worse the eventual drop becomes.
That's one of the reasons why, for example, when Alan
Greenspan continuously kept rates artificially low in the early two thousands,
the housing collapse and the global financial crisis were as
(16:52):
bad as they were in two thousand and seven, eight
and nine, because they kept kicking the can down the
road instead of allowing the free mark market to resolve
these problems, they kept putting it off, and every time
they did it snowballed a little bit more and more,
and sadly that's what's happening today.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
How much change could happen in four years under Trump?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
A few ends, I think a lot, for a couple
of reasons. One is that I think he is so
incredibly angry, and rightfully so right we're talking about a
righteous anger here at all of the bad actors in
the bureaucracy, the so called deep state, who did so
much to undermine him and destroy him, both both personally
(17:37):
and professionally, as well as politically. Obviously, I think he
is so angry at those people he will do everything
to destroy the bureaucracy, which is a huge part of
not revenge, but of actually righting the ship here and
getting us back onto a path to prosperity. But I
think the president, the former president, is also a little
wiser today. I think he has learned who in Congress
(18:00):
he can and more importantly, who he cannot trust. He
was promised, let's not forget, by Republicans in Congress that look,
mister President, if we just passed this one really big budget,
we promised to deliver all the spending cuts you want
next the next go around. And he went along with it,
and then the next go around came and Republicans in
Congress refused to up hold their end of the bargain,
(18:22):
and then the next year Nancy Pelosi was in charge
in the House, so at that point it didn't even matter.
But I think the president, both in terms of the
House and also the Senate, he has a better feel
for again who he can and who he can't trust,
and I think that's going to be invaluable in terms
of getting that spending down.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Fingers crossed from your lips to God's ears. So, EJ,
there is there anything else you'd like to leave us
with before we go?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah. I think one of the things that just echoing
something we said earlier, Lisa, this idea that to the
American people, the message is, look, you are not crazy.
Don't believe all of these headlines that keep telling you. Look,
things aren't that bad. It's fine. I was debating someone
earlier today actually, who was saying that, oh yo, these
late latest inflation rates, they are way down from where
(19:08):
they were in twenty twenty two, So we should be grateful, grateful?
Are you kidding me? Prices right now are rising at
such a pace that prices will double in fifteen and
a half years. I should be grateful for that. A
baby born today, by the even before they're old enough
to vote, prices will have doubled in their lifetime. That's
(19:29):
appalling and anyone who tries telling you that's acceptable is
a liar. And any bureaucrat who thinks that's okay needs
to resign immediately.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
EJ with a Heritage Foundation, appreciate you taking the time
Before we go. Where can people follow your work?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
The best place to find me is going to be
on x or Twitter whatever we call it these days,
and the handle there is at real EJ and.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Tony awesome, Ejy, appreciate you taking the time. Always good
to have you on Lisa.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It's my pleasure. Thank you again for having.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Me there was EJ and Tony with a Heritage Foundation
him from making the time every Monday and Thursday, but
you can listen throughout the week. I want to thank
John Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until
next time,
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.