In this episode, Lisa discusses the Supreme Court case Mahmoud v. Taylor with Tiffany Justice, co-founder of Moms for Liberty and a visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation. The case involves Maryland parents challenging a school district's decision to eliminate the opt-out option for LGBTQ+ inclusive curriculum. Tiffany highlights concerns over parental rights, religious liberty, and the implications of gender ideology in education. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth. Today, we're joined
by Tiffany Justice. She's the co founder of Moms for Liberty.
You know her, we've had her on the show before.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
She is great.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
She's also a visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation as well.
Today we're going to pack the explosive My Mood versus
Taylor Supreme Court case. So this battle pits Maryland parents
against a school district that eliminated their right to opt
out their kids, their young kids out of curriculum featuring
LGBTQ plus inclusive books. Now, the school district originally let
(00:36):
the parents opt out and then change that decision. So
we're going to cover all the angles of this story,
from parental rights and religious liberty to the broader fight
against gender ideology, and and Tiffany's going to break down
what's at stake, why the school district is digging in,
you know, why did they allow parents stopped out and
then change their tune?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
What's that about? And then also how could this.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Case reshape the feet future of education as well as
parental rights. So buckle up, we're going to get the
truth on this case and it's broader implications for you parents,
stay tuned for tifty Justice Tiffany, It's great to have
(01:19):
you on the show. I'm looking forward to hearing what
you have to say about this case. Let's before the
Supreme Court right now. So thanks for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You're welcome. Yeah, last week oral arguments and Mavu v.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Taylor, a case Lisa that really originated in Maryland in
a school district. There Moms for Liberty held at town
Hall in September of last year, and we were hearing
from parents, Jewish parents, Catholic parents, Muslim parents, parents who
really didn't have any religion in their lives that they
were really concerned that their parental rights were being violated
(01:51):
and that there was really inappropriate content being introduced in
classrooms as young as kindergarten er pre k this Pride
storybook collection. So the parents asked for they had an
opt out and then the opt out was taken away.
They asked for it to be put back. School district
said no, and so they have taken They sued the
school district and now all the way to the Supreme Court.
(02:13):
So yeah, those oral arguments were just fascinating to listen
to last week.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, so it's interesting to your point. In twenty twenty two,
Montgomery County County Public Schools added these LGBTQ plus books
to its curriculum for pre K through fifth grade. As
you pointed out, they initially allowed the parental op outs,
and then in March twenty twenty three, the school board
eliminated that option, which was what prompted this lawsuit. Why
(02:38):
do you think they went from allowing the opt out
to not allowing it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's a really good question, and I think it goes
to the heart.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Of what you know, Justice Barrett and some others Kavanaugh
were getting at, which was is this merely exposure to
this content or is.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
There ideological indoctrination happening?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Is there coercion happening where the school district feels that
it's very important board fields it's important for this subject
matter to be taught to children, And you know, I
think it's important. When you look at LGBTQ, there's lgb
which is sexual orientation. Then you have this tea which
is transgender. And you know, Lisa, I've been really honest
about saying I don't believe there's anything such as a
transgender child. We have kids who have a mental distress,
(03:17):
they feel some incongruence between their biological sex and what
they think is their gendered soul or their gender identity.
But you know, make no mistake, men can never be
women and vice versa. And so you have this situation
where it's very clear that Montgomery County Public Schools that
allows opt outs for a new number of other things,
dissections of animals, even a health and sexuality education that
(03:38):
happens in like fifth grade there.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But in this instance, yeah, no opt outs. And it
was interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
One of the things that was brought up by the
school district in the case when it was in the
fourth Circuit before it came to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But then the lawyers brought.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Up again was this idea of there were too many
kids opting out, so it was really hard for the
school district to be able to handle all of the
opt outs.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And I just feel, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Isn't that a sign from the community that the school district,
which is supposed to represent the wants of the parents
of the needs of the children, is really out of
line and out of touch with their community members.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And what's interesting is some of these examples include, you know,
uncle Bobby's wedding, a story about a girl attending or
uncle's same sex wedding, or Pride Puppy features a puppy
loss during Pride Pride Parade intersection Allies My Rainbow, which
explores gender identity. That's for second grade.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
What's interesting is if you.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Look at the plaintiffs, it's a really diverse group of people. Yeah,
we're talking about, you know, a Muslim family, a Roman
Catholic family. So I think that, you know, that also
makes this case particularly interesting as well. It's not you know,
one particular, one particular religious group that is expressing concern here.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You're right.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Justice Kagan actually said though, and you know, normally a
fairly left linging or liberal judge said, you know, I
would imagine that there were parents who were religious that
have an issue with this subject matter being introduced in
element school. And that's very, very true. The least interesting
thing about a child should be their sexual orientation, and
the idea that somehow a teacher is talking about their
(05:10):
own sexual orientation in the classroom will be completely inappropriate.
You know, Maryland public schools not doing very great as
far as reading in math is concerned. Once the third
in the nation in twenty thirteen, now I think it
was in twenty twenty two, had dropped to like in
the twentieth percent Chile the twentieth of all of the states.
So not really killing it on the academic side. So
(05:31):
one has to wonder why they have so much time
for all of this.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, it's like what child pre k through fifth grade
understands what sexual orientation means or is or you know,
like what child that young is even thinking these these
things at that age, and.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
What adult wants to talk to a child about sexual orientation?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And so again, you know, I think it was just
as Roberts that was kind of going through some of
the books, and you know, Lisa, you know, I've been
moms across the country have been really concerned about the
subject matter that is in the public library, excuse me,
in the school public school libraries.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Right. But it was I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Going to lie a little vindicating to hear that the justices,
you know, kind of surprised about the content in the books,
just as Robert's question and said, so they're asking the
kids and it's a pre k book, Pride Puppy to
point out leather, And I think he said sex sex worker,
and the lawyer for Montgomery County Public School said, well,
the leather's a leather jacket, not bondage. And you know
(06:31):
it's not a sex worker, it's a drag queen. And
then it's like, Okay, why do we need to talk
to four year olds about drag queens?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
How is this appropriate?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Well, it's almost like the point is to force the
issue and to force the conversation, to like force a
child to be exposed to something that they're too young for.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Well, and I think that's the point, right, And again
that's what Jessice Barrett was getting at. She said, you know,
it's one thing to say some people think X and
some people think why, and people think different things. It's
another thing to say some people think X and some
people think why. And if you don't think X, then
you're a hateful bigot. And the issue of this idea
of the school district using I think it was either
(07:10):
Justice or Leito or Gorsich that said in temperate language
against the parents. When the case was going through the
fourth circuit, there were some comments made about the Muslim parents,
comparing them to the KKK and calling them a hate
group because they didn't want this subject matter taught to
their kids. And so you know, there is an intentional
war on parental rights and on family happening in America.
(07:33):
We can see it all over the country. You have
that case in Colorado right now. The law that is
being pat that you know, the governor may sign that
says that if you're a parent and you don't want
to affirm your child's want of changing their gender, that
somehow you might lose custody of your child or that
might be considered abuse. And so, you know, this idea
(07:53):
of sexualizing children, blurring the lines between adult and child,
even going so far as when you look at you know,
the idea of a pedophile being you know, reclassified as
a map. They call it minor attracted person. I think
parents are just like you know, pushing the brakes and saying,
wait a second here, these are our kids. We're really
concerned about the content that's being taught in these schools,
(08:14):
the subject matter that's being introduced to them. And when
there's anything that's you know, going outside of reading, writing
and math, we want to say in it. And if
we don't like it, you know, we want to be
able to opt the kids out. Justice Kavanaugh asked during
the oral arguments, he said, is this really the hill
that Montgomery County Public Schools is going to die on?
A state that was founded on religious liberty Catholics, you know,
(08:35):
founding Maryland and now all of a sudden, you know,
no opt out specifically for this subject matter. You know,
he said, I think I think the word he used
was he was mystified.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, I mean, you know, it does kind of mystify.
You know, it is really interesting why they want to
die on this hill. Although we say, you know, the
plaintiffs in this case, the parents, the lost, but in
the federal District court as well as the Fourth Circuit
Court of Appeals. I assume now because there were before
a more conservative Supreme Court, you know, how are they
(09:06):
feeling about this? There are the chances pretty high that
you know, the win. And yeah, since.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Everything that we've seen, it looks good, right. You know,
I've been watching a lot of different commentators. You know,
Jonathan Turley's talked about it a little bit. He's a
expert on the Supreme Court. He said, he really feels
like the parents are going to win here. It'll be
interesting to see what the ruling is if it's six'
three maybe seven to. Two Maybe kagan decides that she
feels like this information is going too far and parents
should be able to opt. Out and let's you, know
(09:34):
be clear about. That they're just asking for an opt.
Out the parents aren't asking to change with the subject matter.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Is in the schools that's being.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Covered they just want to be able to remove their
children and that subject matter is being.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
INTRODUCED i would take it one step.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Further one of the QUESTIONS i think it Was Kagan
jackson And sodomayor, asked, was you, know, well where's the
line here so parents could just opt out of?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Anything so, Too mayor went as far as to.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Say, well what if parents want to opt out of
Interracial well that's, ridiculous you, know comparing the idea of
gender identity or gender ideology to interrational marriage is, nonsense
because gender ideology is a, lie you. Know and my
question back to, Them, lisa would be, this when what
can schools lie to kids?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
About where's the.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Line between teaching the truth and teaching a? Lie and,
then you, know because there, again gender ideology is pseudoscientific.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Nonsense there are men and there are. Women there's no
such thing as.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Transgender the idea that you could change your biological, sex
it's just. Crazy and the fact that we're introducing this
to children is really child, abuse in my. Opinion so
it'll be really interesting to see what happens in this.
Case but going further than, THAT i think we need
to have a very big conversation about gender, ideology and
as far As i'm, concerned it just has no place
in public.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Schools we've got More tiffany.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Justice but, FIRST i want to tell you a great.
Story it's, heartwarming it's, refreshing but most, importantly it's.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
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Speaker 1 (10:53):
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that's genucell dot com Slash. Lisa, well this is really
(12:22):
just part of this broader parental rights conversation we've been.
HAVING i, mean we even saw this play out in
The virginia gubernatorial race Between terry mccaulliffe And Glenn. Yanka
And terry mcculliffe was basically, like parents, shouldn't you, know
shouldn't be in control of what their kids are being
taught in the school. SYSTEM i, mean this kind of
like started more DURING covid and it in terms of
(12:45):
the parents really just saying what their kids were being.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Taught, yeah parents were sitting at their kitchen table with their, kids,
right moms and, dads, everybody the world Stops march, thirteenth twenty.
Twenty all the kids go on to zoom and the
parents are sitting there watching what their children are learning
and seeing where they have to efficiencies in, reading, writing and.
Math but then also this subject, matter very divisive subject subject,
matter Anti, american Anti, god anti. Family parents started to
(13:09):
get really concerned and. Upset and you're, Right Governor youngkin
And terry. Mccauliffe you, know When Governor youngkin, won he
was standing up and, saying, NO i do believe that
parents should have a say in what their kids. LEARN
i think the conversation becomes broader and we start talking
about school. Choice just As jackson said in her in
The Oral, arguments, well you, know if a parent doesn't
(13:30):
like what's being, taught well then they should just.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Homeschool they should just you, know not send their kids
to that.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
School well it's easy for her to, say first of,
all she sent her kids to private.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
School that's.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Interesting not of a parent can afford private, school and
there isn't school choice In. Maryland BUT i think this
will play into a larger conversation about school.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Choice President trump.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Has been very, clear even in conversations with, me about
the fact that he thinks every parent should have the,
fund has the fundamental right to direct the education of their.
Kids he wants to give us much opportunity at school
choices possible to. Families SO i think this will be
part of a larger conversation of, parents you, know being
able to select schools at one unfold the full academic
potential of their, child but two reflect the values that
(14:13):
they hold dear in their.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
HOME i think it's also this broader effort to try
to like tear families, apart you, know because if you
look at states Like, california where you, know the school
doesn't have to notify the parents if the student changes
their name or their. Gender you, know if you Tell
paulina so you can Be Paul and by the, way
like you don't have to go home and tell your.
PARENTS i mean that creates a division in the. FAMILY
(14:35):
i mean you're really pitting like the state and the
child versus the parent and the family.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Structure, yeah we used to call people that told kids
to keep secrets from their parents'. Predators the idea that
you have government schools that are encouraging children to keep
secrets from their, families to lie to their, parents to
lead a double life in, school using a name in
pronouns at school that are different than the name and
pronouns used by the school with.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
The, parents and is.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Crazy these are government, Schools they are funded by taxpayer.
Dollars teachers are government, employees and so the idea this
is happening is.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Nuts you're.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Right In california and other, states there has been a
push to drive a wedge between the parent and the.
Child and you, KNOW i, MEAN i look At Randy,
weingarten head of the teachers'. Union she's not having her own,
kids they want, ours and they want to indoctrinate them
in a very socialist way of, government in a way
of looking at the. WORLD i, MEAN i DARE i say, communists?
Right and so there are things that are happening across
(15:31):
public schools In america right now that parents should be
really concerned. About there's this push for something called community
schools where they want to put school based health clinics
into the. Schools, well when you have agents of informed,
consent that's when a child can give consent to medications
and other things on their own at the age of twelve,
sometimes and then you have school based health clinics with you,
(15:52):
know public private, partnerships people Like Planned parenthood coming into
your school and being able to have interactions with your
students without your knowledge and. Consent it gets really. Concerning
so parents need to be paying. Attention the interesting thing
when you look At, california for, example is that our
good Friend Governor newsom or As President trump likes to call,
Him Governor. Newscomb you, know if you look at what
(16:16):
happened In, california there was a similar bill that passed
The senate in The house In california to this one
In colorado That i'm talking about currently that's going to
be is being actually heard in committee of The, SENATE
i believe. Tomorrow But Governor newsom didn't sign that bill into.
Law he has his eyes on the presidency and SO
i think he knows this issue overwhelmingly is something that
(16:39):
people In america don't. Support people don't want girls and boys,
sports they don't want you, know secrets being kept from
them by government. Schools and So Governor newsom did not
sign that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Bill he vetoed. It it'll be interesting to see What
Governor polus. Does he, ALSO i think.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Has political aspirations to make it to The White house
and so signing these types of bills that are really on.
Popular so you have very progressive you Know house and
said it In colorado pushing this, bill just like In.
California and it seems like The Democratic party is going
to split because really elected officials, know but you, know
governed at the governor, level that this stuff is just
(17:15):
not things that Broadly americans.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Support well that's interesting, too because when you dig into
some of these other books that have been the point
of discussion with, you With moms Of liberty and just
elsewhere in the, country Like Gender, queer which contains explicit
illustrations of oral sex and, masturbation or you, know Law
envoy descriptions of sex between men and, children which is
(17:36):
disgusting obviously, pedophila. Pedophilia you know these books that were you,
know probably shouldn't be written period in my, opinion but
definitely should. Not kids shouldn't have access to or you,
know even young you know in the school system should
not have access. TO i, mean it seems like the
point is to strip a child of his or her,
(17:58):
innocence because is if you're that young and you get
access to a book like, THIS i, mean how are
you not depriving the trial of their.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Innocence you're, right they're robbing kids of their, childhood and
they're really stealing the joys of sex from kids from
like as a young adolescence, too. RIGHT i, mean you
remember in high school your first kiss and all of
those things that we're exciting and new and you, know
you discover it and all of a, sudden now at you,
know at eleven years, old this book is being shoved
in front of you without this graphic sexual, content and
(18:29):
they're you, know rampant. Pornography obviously online that you, know
children oftentimes have access to, unfortunately AND i know there
are a lot of bills to try to address. THAT
i think you're right, ultimately you, know one of the
goals of communism is to destabilize the, family and by
destabilizing the youth and making them h you, know reject
(18:50):
the tradition of, home reject, religion, uh you, know really
blurring the line between parent and. Child we didn't talk
about THE i mean parent child and. A we didn't
talk about THE q part OF, lgbtq but we.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Can for a. Second that's queer. Theory there's no limiting.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Principles why that flag constantly changes and so AGAIN i
talked about that minor attracted person, that you, know just
destigmatizing anything that isn't normal and. Traditional that's the goal
of queer. Theory, again AS i, said there's no limiting principle.
There so the worst of what you can, imagine people
Like Michelle bluco and, Others Judith, butler you, know do
(19:27):
a little studying about queer. THEORY i did a podcast
once with a, Gentleman Derek, jensen who talked about the
depths of queer, theory which is pretty, dark and so
there's a real undercurrent here of something THAT i think
a lot of people would define as, evil but without
a doubt it's completely. Inappropriated, YEAH i, mean let kids be.
Kids you, know we need to protect that time in their.
(19:47):
Lives and who's going to protect it more than a parent,
Honestly so we have to rise.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Up, well it's like kind.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Of funny because like the point is to keep it so,
confusing where like they keep adding like plus, minus you,
know all these different things and change the flag, constantly you,
know the Gay pride, flag so it's like no one
even knows what the hell any of it. Means and
then if you like question, it well you're a bigot for.
Queeno like, right it's kind of, like, yeah this chaotic
(20:17):
like crazy thing to make it so confusing and, chaotic
and then to question something which is so ridiculous on its,
face and then you, know smack a label on you
for questioning that something on its face that's just complicated
and you, know chaotic to begin.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
With, Yeah Babylon be put out a you, know a
meme andut it SAID lgbtq PLUS ms thirteen and it
really kind of drives home the point that the issue
is never the.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Issue the issue is always the.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Revolution so that's why you see queers For palestine right
where you, know a gay person In palestine wouldn't make
it very long openly, gay but somehow In, america you,
know those two things, converge and so.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The issue is never the. Issue the issue is always.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Revolution it's whatever is useful to Disrupt western. Civilization and
you know it's going to take, again AS i, said
just people standing up and saying, no we Love, America
we're proud of our. COUNTRY i think it's really interesting
that you have this really massive attack On western civilization
In america as we know, it while you have this amazing, president,
Right President, trump who's bringing Back Columbus, day and we're
(21:20):
on the cusp of celebrating the two hundred and fiftieth
anniversary of our nation Of. America and so it's going
to be a very interesting few. Years President trump is working.
HARD i think for anyone who voted for, him we
need to remember that we need to help him keep
the will of the.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
People you, know they may take some sacrifice in the short.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Term there's no doubt that some of the decisions that
he's making are going to have an impact on our
lives and our ability to do certain. Things you, know the,
tariffs there's a lot of uncertainty around, that but, ultimately you,
know we need to.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Sacrifice for our.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Country we need to create a brighter future for our,
children AND i Think american parents are here for the long.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Haul we've got to take a quick commercial. Break more
With Tiffany. Justice, also if you like this, episode please
share it with your friends or. Family shared on social
media as. Well any love is. Appreciated what do you
think the broader implications are of This mamude Versus taylor?
Case if the parents are, victorious, WELL i think it's going.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
To be a real sign to school districts across the
country that parents do have parental.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Rights in, fact there's been some question to.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
That we also have seen some really crazy judicial decisions
being made in lower, courts and, so you, KNOW i
think that there's something called The Family rights And Responsibilities.
Acts that line Is Defending freedom put out that said
to federal courts at least that they need to use strict.
Scrutiny they need to apply strict scrutiny when looking at
anything having to do with parental. Rights that means that
the burden is on the, state not the, parents to
(22:50):
prove that they have the right to direct the upbring
of their. Child i've said, before it's a fundamental. Right
that means that the government doesn't give it to. You
it's given to you By god. Right so the idea
that the government takes it away indy capacity is. Ridiculous,
now you don't have the right to abuse your. Child
so something like gender or firming, care which we know
is a horrible puberty blockers cross.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Sex foremones can't do.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
That but you know that that should be the very
worst of what's happening to a, child to have a
parent harm them in that.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Way and SO i think that the implications will be.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Broad it will send a message to school districts that
they need to respect parential, rights and that is a huge.
Win and, then you, Know, LISA i think we built from.
THERE i think we do push to continue to remove
certain content from, classrooms AND i think you're going to
see other cases make it to The Supreme court around
the issue of parential rights in a lot of different.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Ways who's winning this fight right?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Now moms and, Dads my money's on moms and.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Dads nobody's going to fight for anything like a parent
is going to fight for their. Kids we have a
president who believes in, parents has backed us one hundred.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Percent we have The house and The.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Senate it would be nice to see them taking some
action to codify some of these executive orders into, law
and you have parents standing up all over the. Country
i'll bring Up colorado. Again people are standing up and
fighting In. Colorado you have a very Progressive house And
senate In, colorado but you have a governor who knows
MAYBE i should sign that bill right that may not
be good for my political. Future so you, know people
(24:14):
just need to stand up and band. Together because if
you're thinking that it's inappropriate for a child to read,
about you, know sex toys in a, classroom that you're
probably not the only.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
One.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
YEAH i mean it is kind of funny because DURING,
covid it was like wear your mask and people are like,
okay and they're like social distance and people are like,
okay and then they like get the. Vaccine they're. Okay
but then once they saw what their kids were being,
taught they're, like, oh, heck, no you know that's, right you,
know like they took the beating until it reached their
kids and then you, know and then that's when people
started or you, know standing up for kids getting back
(24:43):
to school and things like. That So Tiffty, justice you're.
Great appreciate the work that you're, doing and really appreciate
you making the time to come on the.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Show thank you for having, Me. Lisa that Was Tiffany.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Justice appreciate her for making the time to come on the.
Show appreciate you guys at home for. Listening Read tuesday And,
thursday but you can listen throughout the week until next.
Time
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth. Today, we're joined
by Tiffany Justice. She's the co founder of Moms for Liberty.
You know her, we've had her on the show before.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
She is great.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
She's also a visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation as well.
Today we're going to pack the explosive My Mood versus
Taylor Supreme Court case. So this battle pits Maryland parents
against a school district that eliminated their right to opt
out their kids, their young kids out of curriculum featuring
LGBTQ plus inclusive books. Now, the school district originally let
(00:36):
the parents opt out and then change that decision. So
we're going to cover all the angles of this story,
from parental rights and religious liberty to the broader fight
against gender ideology, and and Tiffany's going to break down
what's at stake, why the school district is digging in,
you know, why did they allow parents stopped out and
then change their tune?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
What's that about? And then also how could this.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Case reshape the feet future of education as well as
parental rights. So buckle up, we're going to get the
truth on this case and it's broader implications for you parents,
stay tuned for tifty Justice Tiffany, It's great to have
(01:19):
you on the show. I'm looking forward to hearing what
you have to say about this case. Let's before the
Supreme Court right now. So thanks for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You're welcome. Yeah, last week oral arguments and Mavu v.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Taylor, a case Lisa that really originated in Maryland in
a school district. There Moms for Liberty held at town
Hall in September of last year, and we were hearing
from parents, Jewish parents, Catholic parents, Muslim parents, parents who
really didn't have any religion in their lives that they
were really concerned that their parental rights were being violated
(01:51):
and that there was really inappropriate content being introduced in
classrooms as young as kindergarten er pre k this Pride
storybook collection. So the parents asked for they had an
opt out and then the opt out was taken away.
They asked for it to be put back. School district
said no, and so they have taken They sued the
school district and now all the way to the Supreme Court.
(02:13):
So yeah, those oral arguments were just fascinating to listen
to last week.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, so it's interesting to your point. In twenty twenty two,
Montgomery County County Public Schools added these LGBTQ plus books
to its curriculum for pre K through fifth grade. As
you pointed out, they initially allowed the parental op outs,
and then in March twenty twenty three, the school board
eliminated that option, which was what prompted this lawsuit. Why
(02:38):
do you think they went from allowing the opt out
to not allowing it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's a really good question, and I think it goes
to the heart.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Of what you know, Justice Barrett and some others Kavanaugh
were getting at, which was is this merely exposure to
this content or is.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
There ideological indoctrination happening?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Is there coercion happening where the school district feels that
it's very important board fields it's important for this subject
matter to be taught to children, And you know, I
think it's important. When you look at LGBTQ, there's lgb
which is sexual orientation. Then you have this tea which
is transgender. And you know, Lisa, I've been really honest
about saying I don't believe there's anything such as a
transgender child. We have kids who have a mental distress,
(03:17):
they feel some incongruence between their biological sex and what
they think is their gendered soul or their gender identity.
But you know, make no mistake, men can never be
women and vice versa. And so you have this situation
where it's very clear that Montgomery County Public Schools that
allows opt outs for a new number of other things,
dissections of animals, even a health and sexuality education that
(03:38):
happens in like fifth grade there.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But in this instance, yeah, no opt outs. And it
was interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
One of the things that was brought up by the
school district in the case when it was in the
fourth Circuit before it came to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But then the lawyers brought.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Up again was this idea of there were too many
kids opting out, so it was really hard for the
school district to be able to handle all of the
opt outs.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And I just feel, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Isn't that a sign from the community that the school district,
which is supposed to represent the wants of the parents
of the needs of the children, is really out of
line and out of touch with their community members.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And what's interesting is some of these examples include, you know,
uncle Bobby's wedding, a story about a girl attending or
uncle's same sex wedding, or Pride Puppy features a puppy
loss during Pride Pride Parade intersection Allies My Rainbow, which
explores gender identity. That's for second grade.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
What's interesting is if you.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Look at the plaintiffs, it's a really diverse group of people. Yeah,
we're talking about, you know, a Muslim family, a Roman
Catholic family. So I think that, you know, that also
makes this case particularly interesting as well. It's not you know,
one particular, one particular religious group that is expressing concern here.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You're right.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Justice Kagan actually said though, and you know, normally a
fairly left linging or liberal judge said, you know, I
would imagine that there were parents who were religious that
have an issue with this subject matter being introduced in
element school. And that's very, very true. The least interesting
thing about a child should be their sexual orientation, and
the idea that somehow a teacher is talking about their
(05:10):
own sexual orientation in the classroom will be completely inappropriate.
You know, Maryland public schools not doing very great as
far as reading in math is concerned. Once the third
in the nation in twenty thirteen, now I think it
was in twenty twenty two, had dropped to like in
the twentieth percent Chile the twentieth of all of the states.
So not really killing it on the academic side. So
(05:31):
one has to wonder why they have so much time
for all of this.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, it's like what child pre k through fifth grade
understands what sexual orientation means or is or you know,
like what child that young is even thinking these these
things at that age, and.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
What adult wants to talk to a child about sexual orientation?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And so again, you know, I think it was just
as Roberts that was kind of going through some of
the books, and you know, Lisa, you know, I've been
moms across the country have been really concerned about the
subject matter that is in the public library, excuse me,
in the school public school libraries.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Right. But it was I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Going to lie a little vindicating to hear that the justices,
you know, kind of surprised about the content in the books,
just as Robert's question and said, so they're asking the
kids and it's a pre k book, Pride Puppy to
point out leather, And I think he said sex sex worker,
and the lawyer for Montgomery County Public School said, well,
the leather's a leather jacket, not bondage. And you know
(06:31):
it's not a sex worker, it's a drag queen. And
then it's like, Okay, why do we need to talk
to four year olds about drag queens?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
How is this appropriate?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Well, it's almost like the point is to force the
issue and to force the conversation, to like force a
child to be exposed to something that they're too young for.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Well, and I think that's the point, right, And again
that's what Jessice Barrett was getting at. She said, you know,
it's one thing to say some people think X and
some people think why, and people think different things. It's
another thing to say some people think X and some
people think why. And if you don't think X, then
you're a hateful bigot. And the issue of this idea
of the school district using I think it was either
(07:10):
Justice or Leito or Gorsich that said in temperate language
against the parents. When the case was going through the
fourth circuit, there were some comments made about the Muslim parents,
comparing them to the KKK and calling them a hate
group because they didn't want this subject matter taught to
their kids. And so you know, there is an intentional
war on parental rights and on family happening in America.
(07:33):
We can see it all over the country. You have
that case in Colorado right now. The law that is
being pat that you know, the governor may sign that
says that if you're a parent and you don't want
to affirm your child's want of changing their gender, that
somehow you might lose custody of your child or that
might be considered abuse. And so, you know, this idea
(07:53):
of sexualizing children, blurring the lines between adult and child,
even going so far as when you look at you know,
the idea of a pedophile being you know, reclassified as
a map. They call it minor attracted person. I think
parents are just like you know, pushing the brakes and saying,
wait a second here, these are our kids. We're really
concerned about the content that's being taught in these schools,
(08:14):
the subject matter that's being introduced to them. And when
there's anything that's you know, going outside of reading, writing
and math, we want to say in it. And if
we don't like it, you know, we want to be
able to opt the kids out. Justice Kavanaugh asked during
the oral arguments, he said, is this really the hill
that Montgomery County Public Schools is going to die on?
A state that was founded on religious liberty Catholics, you know,
(08:35):
founding Maryland and now all of a sudden, you know,
no opt out specifically for this subject matter. You know,
he said, I think I think the word he used
was he was mystified.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, I mean, you know, it does kind of mystify.
You know, it is really interesting why they want to
die on this hill. Although we say, you know, the
plaintiffs in this case, the parents, the lost, but in
the federal District court as well as the Fourth Circuit
Court of Appeals. I assume now because there were before
a more conservative Supreme Court, you know, how are they
(09:06):
feeling about this? There are the chances pretty high that
you know, the win. And yeah, since.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Everything that we've seen, it looks good, right. You know,
I've been watching a lot of different commentators. You know,
Jonathan Turley's talked about it a little bit. He's a
expert on the Supreme Court. He said, he really feels
like the parents are going to win here. It'll be
interesting to see what the ruling is if it's six'
three maybe seven to. Two Maybe kagan decides that she
feels like this information is going too far and parents
should be able to opt. Out and let's you, know
(09:34):
be clear about. That they're just asking for an opt.
Out the parents aren't asking to change with the subject matter.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Is in the schools that's being.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Covered they just want to be able to remove their
children and that subject matter is being.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
INTRODUCED i would take it one step.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Further one of the QUESTIONS i think it Was Kagan
jackson And sodomayor, asked, was you, know, well where's the
line here so parents could just opt out of?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Anything so, Too mayor went as far as to.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Say, well what if parents want to opt out of
Interracial well that's, ridiculous you, know comparing the idea of
gender identity or gender ideology to interrational marriage is, nonsense
because gender ideology is a, lie you. Know and my
question back to, Them, lisa would be, this when what
can schools lie to kids?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
About where's the.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Line between teaching the truth and teaching a? Lie and,
then you, know because there, again gender ideology is pseudoscientific.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Nonsense there are men and there are. Women there's no
such thing as.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Transgender the idea that you could change your biological, sex
it's just. Crazy and the fact that we're introducing this
to children is really child, abuse in my. Opinion so
it'll be really interesting to see what happens in this.
Case but going further than, THAT i think we need
to have a very big conversation about gender, ideology and
as far As i'm, concerned it just has no place
in public.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Schools we've got More tiffany.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Justice but, FIRST i want to tell you a great.
Story it's, heartwarming it's, refreshing but most, importantly it's.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
True so get.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
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she uses it for three, days and then she goes
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(11:14):
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that's genucell dot com Slash. Lisa, well this is really
(12:22):
just part of this broader parental rights conversation we've been.
HAVING i, mean we even saw this play out in
The virginia gubernatorial race Between terry mccaulliffe And Glenn. Yanka
And terry mcculliffe was basically, like parents, shouldn't you, know
shouldn't be in control of what their kids are being
taught in the school. SYSTEM i, mean this kind of
like started more DURING covid and it in terms of
(12:45):
the parents really just saying what their kids were being.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Taught, yeah parents were sitting at their kitchen table with their, kids,
right moms and, dads, everybody the world Stops march, thirteenth twenty.
Twenty all the kids go on to zoom and the
parents are sitting there watching what their children are learning
and seeing where they have to efficiencies in, reading, writing and.
Math but then also this subject, matter very divisive subject subject,
matter Anti, american Anti, god anti. Family parents started to
(13:09):
get really concerned and. Upset and you're, Right Governor youngkin
And terry. Mccauliffe you, know When Governor youngkin, won he
was standing up and, saying, NO i do believe that
parents should have a say in what their kids. LEARN
i think the conversation becomes broader and we start talking
about school. Choice just As jackson said in her in
The Oral, arguments, well you, know if a parent doesn't
(13:30):
like what's being, taught well then they should just.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Homeschool they should just you, know not send their kids
to that.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
School well it's easy for her to, say first of,
all she sent her kids to private.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
School that's.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Interesting not of a parent can afford private, school and
there isn't school choice In. Maryland BUT i think this
will play into a larger conversation about school.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Choice President trump.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Has been very, clear even in conversations with, me about
the fact that he thinks every parent should have the,
fund has the fundamental right to direct the education of their.
Kids he wants to give us much opportunity at school
choices possible to. Families SO i think this will be
part of a larger conversation of, parents you, know being
able to select schools at one unfold the full academic
potential of their, child but two reflect the values that
(14:13):
they hold dear in their.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
HOME i think it's also this broader effort to try
to like tear families, apart you, know because if you
look at states Like, california where you, know the school
doesn't have to notify the parents if the student changes
their name or their. Gender you, know if you Tell
paulina so you can Be Paul and by the, way
like you don't have to go home and tell your.
PARENTS i mean that creates a division in the. FAMILY
(14:35):
i mean you're really pitting like the state and the
child versus the parent and the family.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Structure, yeah we used to call people that told kids
to keep secrets from their parents'. Predators the idea that
you have government schools that are encouraging children to keep
secrets from their, families to lie to their, parents to
lead a double life in, school using a name in
pronouns at school that are different than the name and
pronouns used by the school with.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
The, parents and is.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Crazy these are government, Schools they are funded by taxpayer.
Dollars teachers are government, employees and so the idea this
is happening is.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Nuts you're.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Right In california and other, states there has been a
push to drive a wedge between the parent and the.
Child and you, KNOW i, MEAN i look At Randy,
weingarten head of the teachers'. Union she's not having her own,
kids they want, ours and they want to indoctrinate them
in a very socialist way of, government in a way
of looking at the. WORLD i, MEAN i DARE i say, communists?
Right and so there are things that are happening across
(15:31):
public schools In america right now that parents should be
really concerned. About there's this push for something called community
schools where they want to put school based health clinics
into the. Schools, well when you have agents of informed,
consent that's when a child can give consent to medications
and other things on their own at the age of twelve,
sometimes and then you have school based health clinics with you,
(15:52):
know public private, partnerships people Like Planned parenthood coming into
your school and being able to have interactions with your
students without your knowledge and. Consent it gets really. Concerning
so parents need to be paying. Attention the interesting thing
when you look At, california for, example is that our
good Friend Governor newsom or As President trump likes to call,
Him Governor. Newscomb you, know if you look at what
(16:16):
happened In, california there was a similar bill that passed
The senate in The house In california to this one
In colorado That i'm talking about currently that's going to
be is being actually heard in committee of The, SENATE
i believe. Tomorrow But Governor newsom didn't sign that bill into.
Law he has his eyes on the presidency and SO
i think he knows this issue overwhelmingly is something that
(16:39):
people In america don't. Support people don't want girls and boys,
sports they don't want you, know secrets being kept from
them by government. Schools and So Governor newsom did not
sign that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Bill he vetoed. It it'll be interesting to see What
Governor polus. Does he, ALSO i think.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Has political aspirations to make it to The White house
and so signing these types of bills that are really on.
Popular so you have very progressive you Know house and
said it In colorado pushing this, bill just like In.
California and it seems like The Democratic party is going
to split because really elected officials, know but you, know
governed at the governor, level that this stuff is just
(17:15):
not things that Broadly americans.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Support well that's interesting, too because when you dig into
some of these other books that have been the point
of discussion with, you With moms Of liberty and just
elsewhere in the, country Like Gender, queer which contains explicit
illustrations of oral sex and, masturbation or you, know Law
envoy descriptions of sex between men and, children which is
(17:36):
disgusting obviously, pedophila. Pedophilia you know these books that were you,
know probably shouldn't be written period in my, opinion but
definitely should. Not kids shouldn't have access to or you,
know even young you know in the school system should
not have access. TO i, mean it seems like the
point is to strip a child of his or her,
(17:58):
innocence because is if you're that young and you get
access to a book like, THIS i, mean how are
you not depriving the trial of their.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Innocence you're, right they're robbing kids of their, childhood and
they're really stealing the joys of sex from kids from
like as a young adolescence, too. RIGHT i, mean you
remember in high school your first kiss and all of
those things that we're exciting and new and you, know
you discover it and all of a, sudden now at you,
know at eleven years, old this book is being shoved
in front of you without this graphic sexual, content and
(18:29):
they're you, know rampant. Pornography obviously online that you, know
children oftentimes have access to, unfortunately AND i know there
are a lot of bills to try to address. THAT
i think you're right, ultimately you, know one of the
goals of communism is to destabilize the, family and by
destabilizing the youth and making them h you, know reject
(18:50):
the tradition of, home reject, religion, uh you, know really
blurring the line between parent and. Child we didn't talk
about THE i mean parent child and. A we didn't
talk about THE q part OF, lgbtq but we.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Can for a. Second that's queer. Theory there's no limiting.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Principles why that flag constantly changes and so AGAIN i
talked about that minor attracted person, that you, know just
destigmatizing anything that isn't normal and. Traditional that's the goal
of queer. Theory, again AS i, said there's no limiting principle.
There so the worst of what you can, imagine people
Like Michelle bluco and, Others Judith, butler you, know do
(19:27):
a little studying about queer. THEORY i did a podcast
once with a, Gentleman Derek, jensen who talked about the
depths of queer, theory which is pretty, dark and so
there's a real undercurrent here of something THAT i think
a lot of people would define as, evil but without
a doubt it's completely. Inappropriated, YEAH i, mean let kids be.
Kids you, know we need to protect that time in their.
(19:47):
Lives and who's going to protect it more than a parent,
Honestly so we have to rise.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Up, well it's like kind.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Of funny because like the point is to keep it so,
confusing where like they keep adding like plus, minus you,
know all these different things and change the flag, constantly you,
know the Gay pride, flag so it's like no one
even knows what the hell any of it. Means and
then if you like question, it well you're a bigot for.
Queeno like, right it's kind of, like, yeah this chaotic
(20:17):
like crazy thing to make it so confusing and, chaotic
and then to question something which is so ridiculous on its,
face and then you, know smack a label on you
for questioning that something on its face that's just complicated
and you, know chaotic to begin.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
With, Yeah Babylon be put out a you, know a
meme andut it SAID lgbtq PLUS ms thirteen and it
really kind of drives home the point that the issue
is never the.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Issue the issue is always the.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Revolution so that's why you see queers For palestine right
where you, know a gay person In palestine wouldn't make
it very long openly, gay but somehow In, america you,
know those two things, converge and so.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The issue is never the. Issue the issue is always.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Revolution it's whatever is useful to Disrupt western. Civilization and
you know it's going to take, again AS i, said
just people standing up and saying, no we Love, America
we're proud of our. COUNTRY i think it's really interesting
that you have this really massive attack On western civilization
In america as we know, it while you have this amazing, president,
Right President, trump who's bringing Back Columbus, day and we're
(21:20):
on the cusp of celebrating the two hundred and fiftieth
anniversary of our nation Of. America and so it's going
to be a very interesting few. Years President trump is working.
HARD i think for anyone who voted for, him we
need to remember that we need to help him keep
the will of the.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
People you, know they may take some sacrifice in the short.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Term there's no doubt that some of the decisions that
he's making are going to have an impact on our
lives and our ability to do certain. Things you, know the,
tariffs there's a lot of uncertainty around, that but, ultimately you,
know we need to.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Sacrifice for our.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Country we need to create a brighter future for our,
children AND i Think american parents are here for the long.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Haul we've got to take a quick commercial. Break more
With Tiffany. Justice, also if you like this, episode please
share it with your friends or. Family shared on social
media as. Well any love is. Appreciated what do you
think the broader implications are of This mamude Versus taylor?
Case if the parents are, victorious, WELL i think it's going.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
To be a real sign to school districts across the
country that parents do have parental.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Rights in, fact there's been some question to.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
That we also have seen some really crazy judicial decisions
being made in lower, courts and, so you, KNOW i
think that there's something called The Family rights And Responsibilities.
Acts that line Is Defending freedom put out that said
to federal courts at least that they need to use strict.
Scrutiny they need to apply strict scrutiny when looking at
anything having to do with parental. Rights that means that
the burden is on the, state not the, parents to
(22:50):
prove that they have the right to direct the upbring
of their. Child i've said, before it's a fundamental. Right
that means that the government doesn't give it to. You
it's given to you By god. Right so the idea
that the government takes it away indy capacity is. Ridiculous,
now you don't have the right to abuse your. Child
so something like gender or firming, care which we know
is a horrible puberty blockers cross.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Sex foremones can't do.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
That but you know that that should be the very
worst of what's happening to a, child to have a
parent harm them in that.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Way and SO i think that the implications will be.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Broad it will send a message to school districts that
they need to respect parential, rights and that is a huge.
Win and, then you, Know, LISA i think we built from.
THERE i think we do push to continue to remove
certain content from, classrooms AND i think you're going to
see other cases make it to The Supreme court around
the issue of parential rights in a lot of different.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Ways who's winning this fight right?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Now moms and, Dads my money's on moms and.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Dads nobody's going to fight for anything like a parent
is going to fight for their. Kids we have a
president who believes in, parents has backed us one hundred.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Percent we have The house and The.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Senate it would be nice to see them taking some
action to codify some of these executive orders into, law
and you have parents standing up all over the. Country
i'll bring Up colorado. Again people are standing up and
fighting In. Colorado you have a very Progressive house And
senate In, colorado but you have a governor who knows
MAYBE i should sign that bill right that may not
be good for my political. Future so you, know people
(24:14):
just need to stand up and band. Together because if
you're thinking that it's inappropriate for a child to read,
about you, know sex toys in a, classroom that you're
probably not the only.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
One.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
YEAH i mean it is kind of funny because DURING,
covid it was like wear your mask and people are like,
okay and they're like social distance and people are like,
okay and then they like get the. Vaccine they're. Okay
but then once they saw what their kids were being,
taught they're, like, oh, heck, no you know that's, right you,
know like they took the beating until it reached their
kids and then you, know and then that's when people
started or you, know standing up for kids getting back
(24:43):
to school and things like. That So Tiffty, justice you're.
Great appreciate the work that you're, doing and really appreciate
you making the time to come on the.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Show thank you for having, Me. Lisa that Was Tiffany.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Justice appreciate her for making the time to come on the.
Show appreciate you guys at home for. Listening Read tuesday And,
thursday but you can listen throughout the week until next.
Time
Host
Lisa Boothe
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