October 28, 2025 • 35 mins
Imani Ellis has always believed community is a superpower. What began as a small gathering in her Harlem apartment grew into The Creative Collective NYC and CultureCon — one of the largest conferences celebrating creators of color. But behind the highlight reels and celebrity speakers, Imani’s journey has been defined by burnout, bold leaps and learning when to pause.
In this episode, Ben and Kathleen sit down with Imani and explore what it takes to transform a passion project into a cultural movement. From balancing a demanding career at NBCUniversal with late-night CultureCon planning, to walking away from work at the height of burnout for a self-designed “creative residency” in Paris, Imani shares the realities of leadership, rest and why joy and community must stay at the center of her work.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Ruby.
Imani Ellis was on top. As a young network executive.
She had started a community of creative professionals on the side.
Over the next few years, that community had grown into
an in person conference, attracting thousands of attendees and celebrities
like Spike Lee and Tracy Ellis Ross. As her conference
culture con grew, she ran into a common growing pain.
(00:29):
She needed to find a larger venue for that year's event.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
In the spirit of ambition, I decide that I'm going
to go on a solo quest.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
She found a giant warehouse in Brooklyn that felt like
a greenhouse. The lighting and raw space were perfect.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I could see visions.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
She booked it that night, but the next day she
had a horrible realization. There were no bathrooms, there was
no air conditioning, and most of all, to actually outfit
the space for a conference as they needed to do it,
there was no budget.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I was so scared.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I was so stressed because I immediately thought, I've gone
too big. I can't cover the cost for this venue
and all the things that this venue does not have.
And then to make everything worse, yeah, no, there is
no refund. I remember exactly where I was because I
was in Union Square and I cried and I really thought, Oh,
(01:23):
this is where your ambition has met your delusion.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Welcome back to the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and
Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase
for Business. On the Unshakeables, we're sharing the daring moments
of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling
the stories of how they got through it. And joining
me again is Kathleen Griffith. Kathleen, what's up. It's so
(01:50):
nice to see you again. It's been a while.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Glad to be back with you.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I just caught some of those pictures on the bus tour.
You guys look like you're the Beatles.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
We're not the Beatles, but I'll take it. Is a
lot of fun to get out there. In case you're wondering,
Kathleen is talking about the bus tour we do every
year at JPMorgan Chase. It's a lot of fun and
in fact, it's one of my favorite things to do.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Every year.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
We did a swing through the South this year. We
get out there and we spend time with clients and
staff and local leaders and it's just a great chance
to spend an entire week close to the people who
drive our business.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I love doing and it feels like live events are
coming back to I've been on tour multi city with
you guys for the Chase experiences. It's been great to
see those pack to the gills with people. So it's
nice we're back out in the world again.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Feels good.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, it's taken a while, but it feels like it's
full on again. People want to engage, they want experiences,
and you know, for a while that was sort of
a reaction to COVID, but now I think it's a
reaction to spending your whole life tether to a phone.
I think people crave human connection absolutely, and our guest
today is the perfect person to speak about that on
today's episode, The Creative Collective and Culture Con from New
(03:00):
York City, Atlanta, Georgia, and anywhere Imani is going next. Imani,
great to have you here.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
When we sat down with Imani for this interview, she
was deep in preparation for CultureCon twenty twenty five. I
heard your biggest event of the year is like weeks away. Right,
We're very close. We're very busy. CultureCon is coming. We
are expecting ten thousand creators from around the world to
pop up. It's like Disney World, but for creatives. When
you say pop up, yeah, do you mean show up?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yes? Yes, show up, pop up, walk up. It's going
to be exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I think one of the things that CultureCon has become
known for is reimagining what the conference space looks like.
So traditionally it's a lot of people talking at you,
but at CultureCon, we have workshops, we have activations, We
have over forty different brands that are building everything from
haunted houses to music studios, and so it's just a
really exciting weekend for creative people to meet each other
(03:59):
in build community.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That sounds like a lot of fun. You know you're
a little bit famous now, right, You've been in Time,
People and Forbes and all these cool publications. But let's
go back to your slightly more humble beginnings, right, What
inspired you to make this happen? What was the itch?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I was working as a crisis publicist, and I wanted
to stay in corporate actually forever. I really really loved
getting paid every two weeks, and I loved my job.
And I realized though that I was missing community, which
I thought was a little ironic to kind of live
in New York City but not have community.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I couldn't really find.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
A place where you could actually hear someone else speak,
where you could actually talk. And when I did find
those events, it.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Always was what do you do? Where do you live?
What do you do? Where do you live?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And so I thought, I'm just going to curate what
I do not see. I'm going to invite some friends over.
I made everyone tacos, and so it was a lot
like matchmaking because it was ten of my closest friends.
And then the rule was they each had to bring
one person that they could vouch for because I still
lived there, and so it was twenty people total and
again it was one of those things where we all
(05:03):
sat around and everyone's like, so, like, what are we doing?
I said, Hey, guys, welcome. So I have one question
for you, and it's what are you working on? And
it can't be work? And people from New York were, so,
what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Like, I'm working on work? What are you working on?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I'm working on getting promoted.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I'm like, that's still work, And you could just see
everyone being like wait and We were there from seven
pm till about midnight, and the feeling was this really
was a space where complete strangers, a lot of them,
were like spilling their guts in my five hundred square
foot apartment in Harlem.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I didn't even think I was going to do it again.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So why did you call it the creative collective?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Isn't that the irony? I'm like, that's the most uncreative
name ever. It just came out of my mouth. My
friend Michael, as he was leaving the first one said
what is this? I'm like a collective of creatives. Then
I was joking, but it wasn't until they started texting
and even like, so when is the next creative collective?
That was when I was like, oh, we're going to
do it again, and it felt like my life was balanced.
(06:06):
It felt like I finally had work and play. I
kept doing it and filling up my days with it
until a little bit of an obsession started, and once
I got glimpses of the dream, I couldn't stop. We're
going to do another one. We're going to do another one.
And after we kind of did that for maybe six months,
(06:27):
I was like, you know what we should combine all
these meetups and make it into a conference and it's
for the culture.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
We should call it CultureCon.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, so how did this start to really grow? Did
you hire people right away?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
You know, in the beginning, I did the thing that
I guess they say you're not supposed to do. I
just worked with all my friends. I looked at my
friends and I was like, you're really good at marketing.
Do you want to be the head of marketing? And
the problem and the mistake with that is I didn't
define anything. I was like, do you just want to
be like the head of social.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Were they paid or were they just doing it for fun?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Paid with my love? I have no money.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
We all had full time jobs, and so we were
all still working. I think for everyone it was a hobby.
It was very La Vie Boheme from Rent, we all
just come together. But yeah, no one made money. And
I think that was some of the funnest years was
it wasn't work at the time. Oh your passion just
a passion. And we were giving ourselves titles and it
just felt like a renaissance of sorts because we were
(07:24):
building something that we just we hadn't seen before.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I looked back at.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
The Harlem Renaissance and the salons, and a lot of
this felt so purposeful that I really did not think
of it as a business. Obviously, I knew that we
needed to cover cost, but I wasn't like, how do
I maximize my ROI.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
CultureCon continued to grow, and around twenty seventeen it turned
into an official, you have to buy a ticket event.
One hundred and fifty people paid twenty five dollars each
to attend. More and more people took notice, including famous
curators and creators of culture.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
We had Spike Lee. We didn't even have walkie talkies.
We were texting each other Spike Lee is here. And
then my friend Nabila said, have you seen the website?
I'm like, I have not, and she goes there is
a waiting list of over five hundred people who wanted
to get into this event, but they couldn't get into
this event. And before I could stop myself, I said, well,
I guess they'll just have to come next year. Next year, girl,
(08:23):
And that has kind of been the epetus of scale,
as I think before I can stop myself, I really
was naive in terms of what it took to create events.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And yet Imani was creating events, and more importantly, she
was creating new cultural moments as she went. Her speaker
list reads like a who's who of cultural icons Spike, Lee,
Michelle Obama, Law Roach, Yara Shahidi, Teyana Taylor, and as
CultureCon grows, I have no doubt it's cultural impact will too.
(08:55):
Did you ever find yourself having a I don't know
if I can do this moment every day.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I mean I had one yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I think I think I was really waiting for an
opportunity for fear to disappear. And I think if you're
really like no, no, no, when I don't feel afraid,
that's when I'll do a thing. It's like, ready is
not a feeling, it's a decision.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Right, Yeah, there's a question. I think it's Winston Churchill,
but I'm not really sure. Some attributed to Mark Twain,
some to Franklin Roosevelt, and indeed some to Winston Churchill.
But it's not important who said it. It's what they said.
Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is doing
what you need to do despite being afraid.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And so that's been really just one of my anchors
is you feel fear because you care about this thing,
not because you shouldn't do this thing. And at every
step I literally was stumbling through the dark, but knowing
that I could see visions. I could walk into an
empty warehouse and be like, Oh, the stage will go there,
(09:52):
the seeds will go there. So the first one was
October twenty seventeen, and then we moved to the Knockdown
Center twenty eighteen. Then we moved to Duggal Greenhouse in
twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
When you graduated to the Greenhouse, it did not go
as planned. Tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So we decide that we're going to need a bigger venue,
and in the spirit of ambition, I decide that I'm
going to go on a solo quest to find a
new venue, and so I google large venues in New
York and Duggal Greenhouse is one of the first that
pops up. And I saw that Lady Gaga had had
parties there, Beyonce rehearse there for her Super Bowl performance.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I was like, I gotta go.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Duggal Greenhouse is a massive structure in the Brooklyn Navy Yards.
Major brands and artists use it for activations all the time,
but Duggal greenhouse is a blank canvas. It's got concrete floors,
gigantic windows that wash the entire structure in sunlight. It's
a raw space that you can outfit well however you want.
It's beautiful, but also it's a warehouse. Imani scheduled a
(10:53):
tour and went after work one.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Day and I can already see them, like, the stage
will go there, the VIP lounge will go there, we'll
do our conversations in here, we'll do our activations over there.
And just like that, I'm like, yes, can I have
the contract? And so I signed that contract? I mean immediately,
I think I went home and just signed it and
sent it.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
She told her friend about her fantastic find. The next day, she.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Goes, you didn't take anyone who does production with you there?
And I'm like, no, how hard can it be? It's
a beautiful venue.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
That question lingered in Imani's mind. She went back again,
this time with a production friend.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
She's like, this is a beautiful venue, but where are
the bathrooms? I'm like, wait, how did I not see
the bathrooms? And then she goes and where's the air conditioning?
And where are they gonna? And she just won two
three four. I remember being ice cold, ice cold, like
I was freezing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I was so scared. I was so stressed.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Because I immediately thought, I've gone too big. I can
barely cover the cost for this venue, but I definitely
can't cover the cost for this venue and all the
things that this venue does not have. And then, to
make everything worse, I went back and read the contract
and it's like, yeah, no, there is no refund. I
remember exactly where I was, because I was in Union Square,
(12:15):
and I cried, and I really thought, oh, this is
where your ambition has met your delusion.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She did the only thing she could think of. She
picked up the phone and started dialing up sponsors.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I thought, Okay, if I can get the sponsorship costs
to cover these costs, I think will be okay.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
We sold out. Sponsors came, and more celebrities came.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Tracy Ellis threw Pattern, her new haircare product into the crowd.
But it was definitely a game of arithmetic, because I really,
really really was stretching myself and stretching my resources to
a degree that I don't even know if I knew
how much stress.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
was going to be coming.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Well, what a rich conversation with Imani. I was so
inspired by her. She's such a light.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I thought it was a great conversation for someone who
runs essentially an experienced company. She's an incredibly reflective and
inwardly facing person. I have to give her props for
recognizing herself in being incredibly self aware, and she's managed
to construct something that resonates in that way with both
(13:30):
her passion and her personal preferences.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
That's right, And as someone who's a cultural strategist, I
just find this space so interesting. You know, there are
brands that are born out of the culture, and then
there are those that tap into culture. And the way
that I think about it is brands that are born
out of the culture.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Culture is that origin story.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
It's community first, right, So in her case, she's this
black female founder has created a community and a business for
other black and brown people. That is like the DNA
of what she's created. And then there are brands that
are tapping into the culture where they're using culture more
as a marketing lever and they're more brand first. So
(14:10):
that's how I think about it. I'm curious, does that
resonate with you? Is that kind of what you saw
in her story too?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, I think there's a third category. I think that
is her category. Ooh well, I think there are brands
that grow out of culture. I think there are brands
that leverage culture, and then I think there are brands
that create culture. Now those are rare. Those are the
ones that really burst onto the scene. Like I think
of Peloton that way, that created a subculture that didn't
exist before around exercise. Whereas I think what she did
(14:40):
and it's no less impactful, it's just different. Is she
tapped into an unmet need of that culture and found
a way to dig into it and amplify it and
give it a home. And I think that's powerful in
its own right.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
What are the questions that I hear a lot is
when should I be part of the cultural conversation? And
I think the question you need to ask yourself is
like does it make sense to jump in? And there's
usually two things. There's alignment, does what's happening culturally align
with your brand? And then there's timeliness, like can you
jump in on if it's more trend based, something that's
(15:13):
in the here and now. I've had fun watching the
Y two K two thousand trend crop up in culture recently,
people are going back to nostalgia time of online and
offline and flip phones and velour track suits, and that's
been a fun one to see pop up. But you've
seen some brands that shouldn't have been part of it
who are jumping in.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I think where brands go wrong is when they try
to engage with part of the culture that really is
either not that relevant, where they don't have any particular
reason to have something to say, it usually falls flat.
I mean, it's the same thing I tell people when
they call me for career advice, and I say, the
number one thing you can do in your career and
your life is to be authentic. Because people can smell
(15:54):
bs a mile away. There are brands that sit at
the crux of something happening in culture where it's obviously
that they need to participate in it. But when brands
try to force their way in, it rarely ends.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Well, yeah, credibility has to be there, authenticity has to
be there. So one of the really brass tax questions
I get a lot from entrepreneurs and small business owners
is if you look at a calendar, the amount of
cultural moments that happen in any given year, it's like
a hundred you know, it's like god absurd, like do
I participate? And then then you have these cultural moments,
(16:26):
which is these cultural flashpoints, these viral trends, and do
I jump in on that. I like to tell founders
to pick a few that, again feel aligned with your brand,
that makes sense, put them on the calendar, plan for them.
If something happens to pop up that you feel is aligned,
go for it. But for the most part, less is more.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
These things, most of them just go right by people.
So you can spend a lot of energy engaging in
these cultural moments. But these cultural moments, for the most part,
pass very quickly, and so my view is less is
definitely more. The speed at which trends and memes and
fads come and go is only ever getting faster. So
you will occasionally hit on one and it'll be a
(17:09):
perfect storm and you'll ride it. It's not that common.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, it's not that common.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
So let go of the cognitive fatigue of trying to
pay attention to everything that's happening.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, let's get back to Imani. Over the next three years,
CultureCon continued to grow and flourish. Even in twenty twenty
Imani held CultureCon at home. Twenty two thousand people showed up,
but she would continue to work at her corporate job
while growing CultureCon for three more years.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
For a good amount of time, maybe six years, I
had two full time jobs. And I look back at
that version of myself and I was just so hungry.
I wasn't satisfied. And I think for me, it felt
so much bigger than just me being satisfied. It just
felt like our community deserved a space like this where
(17:58):
the quality and the intention was there and we weren't
in afterthought.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And if you're wondering how someone could work two full
time jobs for six whole years, yes, she had the drive,
but she also had a sense of awareness about her
timeline and had the confidence to stick to her plan
despite what other people may have recommended.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
For those six years, I was living two worlds. I
would work at Bravo from eight am until seven pm,
take a dinner break, go to watch What Happens Live
live at eleven pm, take a car home, get home
at maybe one am. Then I would sleep from like
one to five and work on CultureCon from like you know,
(18:38):
six to seven.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I loved my job.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You know, and so I think for a lot of people,
the origin story was like you couldn't stand your nine
to five, so you leave and find freedom. I really
liked my boss, and my corporate job was really teaching
me how to be a leader.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Imani had worked herself into a VP position and CultureCon
was growing. By the end of twenty two twenty two,
she was finally ready to give the Creative Collective her
sole focus. Twenty twenty three was her first year as
full time CEO.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And I felt like I had a lot to prove
because I was like, it doesn't work, it's not because
I didn't try. I was a team captain in my
high school track team, and my coach would say it's
not going to fail because of me, and that is
something that's like carved on my heart. So I was like,
if it doesn't work as an entrepreneur, it's not because
(19:29):
I didn't really give it a go.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But I overdid it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
In the first half of twenty twenty three, Imani and
her team put on a CultureCon in Atlanta sold out,
another in LA.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Sold out, and my body was like, are we okay?
How am I going to tell myself that we have
the biggest culture con New York coming up in October.
I was hitting a breaking point and I said, I can't.
I have to take a break. I remember that I
had free will, and I just stopped.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Out from her biggest event of the year, and based
on everything she'd worked up to, this was going to
be her biggest event ever, and Imani walked away. The
inspiration for this break came from one of her longtime
heroes and creative inspirations, James Baldwin.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
James Baldwin has always resonated with me. I feel like
the reason I adore him so much, as he puts
so much language to things that I feel. And so
I started reading about his time in America and how
he went to Paris in the sixties and met so
many different artists and so many different people and got
(20:36):
to show a different expression of himself. And I said,
I'm going to do that. I'm going to go to Paris.
I'm gonna take a break. And so as I burned out,
I took myself on a creative residency in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I'm a banker. I don't know what a creative residence.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I know I kind of invented it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Actually I feel like bankers really need this. So it
is a curriculum that I built for myself. And the
goal was not that the output would be some work
of art. I would be the work of art. I
did thirty days in France. I went from Paris and
then I did the south of France, and along the
way I built this curriculum that I followed.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The first part.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Of my creative residency is play, and the definition is
if there's no reason to say no, say yes. And
so I was saying yes to everything, to crepes, to
artists drawing me in the streets, to getting a drink
with a new friend, and I just allowed myself to
shake off the pretension of adulthood and just be so
(21:40):
light and free. The second part is still, which is
the hardest part for me, because still is different than rest.
You're still lying in wait, you're just reflecting and thinking.
And so that's the second part. And then the third
part is to really act. And so it's okay, in
my playtime, in my still time, what do I want
(22:03):
to take with me as.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I return back to my regular schedule.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
By the end of my trip, I was so inspired
and so rested and so ready to tackle CultureCon.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Interesting because you know, some entrepreneurs come on and they're like,
you can't be an entrepreneur unless you are willing to
live it, breathe it, eat it, sleep at twenty four, seven,
three sixty five. That's it. That's the only way. There
can be nothing else in your life other than building
that company.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think there are seasons of that in my twenties.
You know, when I talk about starting this company at
twenty five to thirty, that was my life. I made
a lot of sacrifices. And I will never tell an
entrepreneur that you don't need to be obsessed. You need
a borderline level of obsession, and you need to care.
If you don't care, literally, no one else will care.
But I do think that there also comes a season
where you can also see am I sustaining? Because if
(22:51):
you're an entrepreneur and at year six you're doing the
same amount of can't sleep, always drinking energy drinks, amount
of pork that you were doing and year one.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
I really would say that you've got to.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Look at your system and we've got a problem. It's
not that it's not hard, but you should have different
kinds of problems. I think because we have to return
to the natural order, which is rhythm. And somewhere along
the line, we told ourselves that if you push, push, push,
push harder, you'll get a better return. But I'm realizing
that at a certain point it is diminishing returns. It's
(23:25):
not your best. You're sluggish. It's not creative, it's not innovative.
Anytime I'm giving advice, I say, this is what works
for me, but it's based on my values. If you
don't value rest, you might not think that a creative
residency makes sense for you in this season of your life.
I say, give it a little bit of time. You
probably will come around to it. I did PR in
(23:45):
crisis for ten years. I understand everything being urgent. I
completely understand never turning off. But in this chapter of
my life, that just isn't the version of life that
I want to have.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Kathleen, what an interesting subject. I'm just so fascinated by
the idea that in the busiest season of her life,
when she's super successful, Imani took thirty days off to rest.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
What I'm obsessed with, as you know, is the athlete mindset.
So when I started out as a business owner, I
didn't really relate to the Howard Schultz's of the world
and the Sheryl Sandberg's and lean in, lean out. The
business leaders had no real resonance for me, and so
I actually turned to athletes to see what does it
take to go the distance in your business to have
(24:35):
that endurance. And I love that Imani, with her background
in sport and being a runner, she was able just
to parlay that naturally into her business where she thinks
about things as sprint periods, rest and recovery periods, understanding
her natural rhythm and that she needs to create in seasons.
(24:55):
So it's not a marathon, it's not a sprint. It's
more of this seasonal approach to figuring out when you
need to be on, when you need to be off.
You don't need to be on all the time either.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And in her off time, sort of like an athlete
would say, she's using that time for active recovery. She's traveling,
she's experiencing new things and using that time for herself.
And even though those excursions may feel totally unrelated to
her job, all of that comes through in her work
later on. I travel a lot for work. I've been
all around the world over the last thirty years and
one of the things that I find as a business
(25:29):
person is I really pay attention when I travel. And
I do this when I travel in my own life.
Is I pay attention to the business environment in other
countries because I find that I'm inspired for things that
I can do better when I get back. And when
you live sort of immersed in the bubble that we
have in the US or in your particular state or
your hometown or wherever it is, I do think sometimes
(25:52):
you don't get the breadth of thinking that comes when
you travel internationally. I lived in London for a couple
of years, and I remember thinking, like the way they
do certain things, whether it's food delivery or banking, they
had taken some friction out of some things that we
hadn't quite gotten to in the US. I'll give you
a great example of one that came here when I
lived in London. Tap to pay was like already way
(26:14):
a thing. So I would just tap my watch to
get on the tube in London, which you can now
do in New York. But when I first came back,
you couldn't. Wow. I could do that back in twenty
eighteen in London, and so I found that after that experience,
when I traveled to new countries, whether it's in Asia
or Europe or it doesn't matter where, I'm always paying
attention to how people are transacting business and how they're
(26:34):
doing it, not just in my own industry but in others.
And that I get lots of ideas from that.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Yeah, I like you lots of business travel and lots
of personal travel. I think it's interesting, right because when
I think about travel, I think about domestic and I
think about international very different, like the international travels perhaps.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
A bit more of a luxury.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
It leads to more disruptive thinking around processes and people,
and you have things that hit you that otherwise wouldn't
immersing yourself in culture, which we don't do nearly enough
because we're behind our computer screens. We're not getting out
in the world and actually bumping up against real people
and what's really happening in the market, and you just
(27:17):
you start to get such an intuitive sense for what's
happening that you don't get again when you're tethered to
a computer screen. So I think that combination is powerful
if you can make it work. But at the very
least small business owners need to be getting out way
more than most that I talk to are, Like, the
(27:37):
return on investment is ten x spending a day out
in the world, wandering around, taking it all in as
just an observer, relative to a day behind a computer screen.
And I find that that tends to work best closer
to home.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
That's true. And you need to talk to your employees
and your clients. I mean, when we first started this,
we talked about the bus trip that I took. Yeah,
I mean, you have to get out there and you know,
put the phone away. Imani is a great example of
what happens when we can just put the phone down
for a little while. But she didn't just discover the
benefits of travel as an adult.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
When I was younger.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You know, my parents are missionaries, and my dad used
to work for the North American Mission Board, and I
remember being five am and he would come and kiss
me goodbye and go fly off, and I just.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Thought that was so cool.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Sometimes I really have to just like pinch myself that
I get to travel for business for a company that
I created.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It's really mind blowing. But I love traveling the world.
I love feeling really.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Small in new spaces and I really am a fan
of talking to the person that I sit by on
the plane for the first ten minutes. Then I'll put
on my earphones and I'll listen to a movie. But
I'm a curious person, and I think travel, just like
expedites that curiosity.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Imani has also opened up new creative residencies for other
people who are hoping to rest and reset, just like
she did.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I really did that travel experience for myself to come
back to my most abundant and creative self. But what
I found is that people that followed wanted that itinerary
as well, and so I was able to bring back
the creative experience package it up and now we are
doing creative residencies with entrepreneurs and corporate creators who are
burnt out. And so I think that's really such a
(29:21):
visible example of traveling somewhere and allowing that to be
a through line and an inspiration to my business.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Does that mean travel has become sort of essential to
the way that you think about building your business.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I think the thing about creative residency is you can
do it wherever you live. So obviously, you know, we
glorified like oh yes, go to France and need a
baguette and you'll come back James Baldwin. But you can
also do creative residency in New York City. It's just
about reframing kind of your approach to your journey.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
For Imani and for anyone seeking more inspiration, it's more
about being out in the world, observing, exploring, and finding
new ways to think about things. Sparks of new ideas.
They can come from anywhere. You mentioned a house party
in London that influenced how you run your events. I mean, yeah,
I wouldn't really think that a house party in London
would translate into a mega event like what you do.
(30:16):
I used to live in London, so tell me really.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I was in this house party in London and I
get there and it's the first thirty minutes to an hour,
people are just meeting each other, and then the host
comes out and she gives us like an icebreaker and
put us in different groups, and we were able to
kind of compete in this different game. And I thought
there's something here, like I love that you don't come
(30:40):
in and immediately there are rules. You kind of come
in and like do your own thing, but then instead
of letting the whole night go like that there's a
little bit of structure in the middle, just enough that
like you're not forced, but you're encouraged to meet other.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
People because you don't have to wander around looking for
someone to talk to you, right.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And I thought that was so thoughtful because without that
like structure, we probably would have all stated in our
little pods all night.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Not only did it help Imani break out of her
shell and meet new people, she also brought that idea
of structured and unstructured time back to CultureCon.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I was like, Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
What if we, in addition to having like a formal panel,
had a little bit more unstructured things. We're introducing something
this year called the four Minute Pitch Contest, where you
can get on the Culture stage for four minutes and
pitch whatever you're working on. It's going back to the apartment,
getting through a breakup, trying to invest. We have four
minutes to pitch, and then the community has four minutes back,
(31:37):
one sentence at a time to give you advice, and
then we connect you at the end.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
It's such a merge between your personal life and your
professional life, right because your events are social events, which
is what a lot of people spend their personal time
doing so. Are you sort of secretly working all the
time because you're trying to figure out how to turn
your personal social experiences into your events or it's not
that explicit.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
I don't think it's that explicit.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I think the reason that culture Con has scaled is
because it came from personal events that people can relate to.
But I also have so many other things that just
aren't monetizable that I just enjoy, and I think that
goes back to playtime.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I do want to talk to you about what's next
for CultureCon because I understand that there's new verticals coming,
and so tell me about Like, you've got CultureCon where
it needs to be, it's time for the next leg up.
What does that next leg up look like?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
So one of the things we've been really excited about
is this year at culture Con, we're launching more summits.
So summits are really really specific learning verticals for our
community based on the feedback they've given us in the
focus groups. And so we're introducing a sports summit for
creators and creatives and executives who want to work in sports.
We're introducing an AI Summit, the first ever Founder Summit,
(32:51):
also bringing back our small business market and so it's
an entire ecosystem of education, thinking of it as almost
like business school for the entrepreneur and the creative. And
we're also going to have speed networking this year, a
job fair this year. Obviously, this economy has been up
and down, and so just excited for people to talk
to recruiters and understand in this new age, like what
(33:13):
are they looking for when it comes to hiring. And
then CultureCon Week is back. So leading up to CultureCon
there's over thirty events that take place all over New
York City.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Where do you want it to be in five years?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I don't have you know, it's so funny I.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Used to do.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You don't do the five year thing?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I don't do the five year thing. I used to
and I really needed that in my teens and twenties.
I remember coming into NBC at twenty years old and saying,
I want to be a vice president by the time
I'm thirty.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
That was a very clear goal.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
And I was thirty and I became a vice president
and then I stopped doing it after that. I have
surpassed my goals. It's like I don't know. Maybe I'll
start like a dinner club.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
All right. So the one question I want to ask
you before we go, because I ask everyone who comes
on the show, this is if you could give an
aspiring or current entrepreneur one piece of advice, what would
it be.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Keep your eyes on your own paper, focus on the
art that you're creating, and get advice, but don't compare
your art to someone else's art. They might have started earlier,
they might have more resources. But like, it's not over
till it's over.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Imani, thanks so much. It's really been great having you here.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Unshakeables.
If you liked this episode, please rate and review it
on our next episode. We're talking to founders who happen
to be doctors, but they're doctors who are taking on
the way that our entire healthcare system practices emergency medicine,
and they're doing it by starting a tech company. Emergency
departments aren't optimally equipped to take care of complex older.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Adult This is a five alarm fire for a lot
of hospitals and health systems.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
I'm Ben Walter, and this is the Unshakeables from Chase
for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you
back here soon.
Ruby.
Imani Ellis was on top. As a young network executive.
She had started a community of creative professionals on the side.
Over the next few years, that community had grown into
an in person conference, attracting thousands of attendees and celebrities
like Spike Lee and Tracy Ellis Ross. As her conference
culture con grew, she ran into a common growing pain.
(00:29):
She needed to find a larger venue for that year's event.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
In the spirit of ambition, I decide that I'm going
to go on a solo quest.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
She found a giant warehouse in Brooklyn that felt like
a greenhouse. The lighting and raw space were perfect.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I could see visions.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
She booked it that night, but the next day she
had a horrible realization. There were no bathrooms, there was
no air conditioning, and most of all, to actually outfit
the space for a conference as they needed to do it,
there was no budget.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I was so scared.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I was so stressed because I immediately thought, I've gone
too big. I can't cover the cost for this venue
and all the things that this venue does not have.
And then to make everything worse, yeah, no, there is
no refund. I remember exactly where I was because I
was in Union Square and I cried and I really thought, Oh,
(01:23):
this is where your ambition has met your delusion.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Welcome back to the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and
Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase
for Business. On the Unshakeables, we're sharing the daring moments
of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling
the stories of how they got through it. And joining
me again is Kathleen Griffith. Kathleen, what's up. It's so
(01:50):
nice to see you again. It's been a while.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Glad to be back with you.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I just caught some of those pictures on the bus tour.
You guys look like you're the Beatles.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
We're not the Beatles, but I'll take it. Is a
lot of fun to get out there. In case you're wondering,
Kathleen is talking about the bus tour we do every
year at JPMorgan Chase. It's a lot of fun and
in fact, it's one of my favorite things to do.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Every year.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
We did a swing through the South this year. We
get out there and we spend time with clients and
staff and local leaders and it's just a great chance
to spend an entire week close to the people who
drive our business.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I love doing and it feels like live events are
coming back to I've been on tour multi city with
you guys for the Chase experiences. It's been great to
see those pack to the gills with people. So it's
nice we're back out in the world again.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Feels good.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, it's taken a while, but it feels like it's
full on again. People want to engage, they want experiences,
and you know, for a while that was sort of
a reaction to COVID, but now I think it's a
reaction to spending your whole life tether to a phone.
I think people crave human connection absolutely, and our guest
today is the perfect person to speak about that on
today's episode, The Creative Collective and Culture Con from New
(03:00):
York City, Atlanta, Georgia, and anywhere Imani is going next. Imani,
great to have you here.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
When we sat down with Imani for this interview, she
was deep in preparation for CultureCon twenty twenty five. I
heard your biggest event of the year is like weeks away. Right,
We're very close. We're very busy. CultureCon is coming. We
are expecting ten thousand creators from around the world to
pop up. It's like Disney World, but for creatives. When
you say pop up, yeah, do you mean show up?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yes? Yes, show up, pop up, walk up. It's going
to be exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I think one of the things that CultureCon has become
known for is reimagining what the conference space looks like.
So traditionally it's a lot of people talking at you,
but at CultureCon, we have workshops, we have activations, We
have over forty different brands that are building everything from
haunted houses to music studios, and so it's just a
really exciting weekend for creative people to meet each other
(03:59):
in build community.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That sounds like a lot of fun. You know you're
a little bit famous now, right, You've been in Time,
People and Forbes and all these cool publications. But let's
go back to your slightly more humble beginnings, right, What
inspired you to make this happen? What was the itch?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I was working as a crisis publicist, and I wanted
to stay in corporate actually forever. I really really loved
getting paid every two weeks, and I loved my job.
And I realized though that I was missing community, which
I thought was a little ironic to kind of live
in New York City but not have community.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I couldn't really find.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
A place where you could actually hear someone else speak,
where you could actually talk. And when I did find
those events, it.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Always was what do you do? Where do you live?
What do you do? Where do you live?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And so I thought, I'm just going to curate what
I do not see. I'm going to invite some friends over.
I made everyone tacos, and so it was a lot
like matchmaking because it was ten of my closest friends.
And then the rule was they each had to bring
one person that they could vouch for because I still
lived there, and so it was twenty people total and
again it was one of those things where we all
(05:03):
sat around and everyone's like, so, like, what are we doing?
I said, Hey, guys, welcome. So I have one question
for you, and it's what are you working on? And
it can't be work? And people from New York were, so,
what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Like, I'm working on work? What are you working on?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I'm working on getting promoted.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I'm like, that's still work, And you could just see
everyone being like wait and We were there from seven
pm till about midnight, and the feeling was this really
was a space where complete strangers, a lot of them,
were like spilling their guts in my five hundred square
foot apartment in Harlem.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I didn't even think I was going to do it again.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So why did you call it the creative collective?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Isn't that the irony? I'm like, that's the most uncreative
name ever. It just came out of my mouth. My
friend Michael, as he was leaving the first one said
what is this? I'm like a collective of creatives. Then
I was joking, but it wasn't until they started texting
and even like, so when is the next creative collective?
That was when I was like, oh, we're going to
do it again, and it felt like my life was balanced.
(06:06):
It felt like I finally had work and play. I
kept doing it and filling up my days with it
until a little bit of an obsession started, and once
I got glimpses of the dream, I couldn't stop. We're
going to do another one. We're going to do another one.
And after we kind of did that for maybe six months,
(06:27):
I was like, you know what we should combine all
these meetups and make it into a conference and it's
for the culture.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
We should call it CultureCon.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, so how did this start to really grow? Did
you hire people right away?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
You know, in the beginning, I did the thing that
I guess they say you're not supposed to do. I
just worked with all my friends. I looked at my
friends and I was like, you're really good at marketing.
Do you want to be the head of marketing? And
the problem and the mistake with that is I didn't
define anything. I was like, do you just want to
be like the head of social.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Were they paid or were they just doing it for fun?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Paid with my love? I have no money.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
We all had full time jobs, and so we were
all still working. I think for everyone it was a hobby.
It was very La Vie Boheme from Rent, we all
just come together. But yeah, no one made money. And
I think that was some of the funnest years was
it wasn't work at the time. Oh your passion just
a passion. And we were giving ourselves titles and it
just felt like a renaissance of sorts because we were
(07:24):
building something that we just we hadn't seen before.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I looked back at.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
The Harlem Renaissance and the salons, and a lot of
this felt so purposeful that I really did not think
of it as a business. Obviously, I knew that we
needed to cover cost, but I wasn't like, how do
I maximize my ROI.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
CultureCon continued to grow, and around twenty seventeen it turned
into an official, you have to buy a ticket event.
One hundred and fifty people paid twenty five dollars each
to attend. More and more people took notice, including famous
curators and creators of culture.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
We had Spike Lee. We didn't even have walkie talkies.
We were texting each other Spike Lee is here. And
then my friend Nabila said, have you seen the website?
I'm like, I have not, and she goes there is
a waiting list of over five hundred people who wanted
to get into this event, but they couldn't get into
this event. And before I could stop myself, I said, well,
I guess they'll just have to come next year. Next year, girl,
(08:23):
And that has kind of been the epetus of scale,
as I think before I can stop myself, I really
was naive in terms of what it took to create events.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And yet Imani was creating events, and more importantly, she
was creating new cultural moments as she went. Her speaker
list reads like a who's who of cultural icons Spike, Lee,
Michelle Obama, Law Roach, Yara Shahidi, Teyana Taylor, and as
CultureCon grows, I have no doubt it's cultural impact will too.
(08:55):
Did you ever find yourself having a I don't know
if I can do this moment every day.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I mean I had one yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I think I think I was really waiting for an
opportunity for fear to disappear. And I think if you're
really like no, no, no, when I don't feel afraid,
that's when I'll do a thing. It's like, ready is
not a feeling, it's a decision.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Right, Yeah, there's a question. I think it's Winston Churchill,
but I'm not really sure. Some attributed to Mark Twain,
some to Franklin Roosevelt, and indeed some to Winston Churchill.
But it's not important who said it. It's what they said.
Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is doing
what you need to do despite being afraid.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And so that's been really just one of my anchors
is you feel fear because you care about this thing,
not because you shouldn't do this thing. And at every
step I literally was stumbling through the dark, but knowing
that I could see visions. I could walk into an
empty warehouse and be like, Oh, the stage will go there,
(09:52):
the seeds will go there. So the first one was
October twenty seventeen, and then we moved to the Knockdown
Center twenty eighteen. Then we moved to Duggal Greenhouse in
twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
When you graduated to the Greenhouse, it did not go
as planned. Tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So we decide that we're going to need a bigger venue,
and in the spirit of ambition, I decide that I'm
going to go on a solo quest to find a
new venue, and so I google large venues in New
York and Duggal Greenhouse is one of the first that
pops up. And I saw that Lady Gaga had had
parties there, Beyonce rehearse there for her Super Bowl performance.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I was like, I gotta go.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Duggal Greenhouse is a massive structure in the Brooklyn Navy Yards.
Major brands and artists use it for activations all the time,
but Duggal greenhouse is a blank canvas. It's got concrete floors,
gigantic windows that wash the entire structure in sunlight. It's
a raw space that you can outfit well however you want.
It's beautiful, but also it's a warehouse. Imani scheduled a
(10:53):
tour and went after work one.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Day and I can already see them, like, the stage
will go there, the VIP lounge will go there, we'll
do our conversations in here, we'll do our activations over there.
And just like that, I'm like, yes, can I have
the contract? And so I signed that contract? I mean immediately,
I think I went home and just signed it and
sent it.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
She told her friend about her fantastic find. The next day, she.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Goes, you didn't take anyone who does production with you there?
And I'm like, no, how hard can it be? It's
a beautiful venue.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
That question lingered in Imani's mind. She went back again,
this time with a production friend.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
She's like, this is a beautiful venue, but where are
the bathrooms? I'm like, wait, how did I not see
the bathrooms? And then she goes and where's the air conditioning?
And where are they gonna? And she just won two
three four. I remember being ice cold, ice cold, like
I was freezing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I was so scared. I was so stressed.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Because I immediately thought, I've gone too big. I can
barely cover the cost for this venue, but I definitely
can't cover the cost for this venue and all the
things that this venue does not have. And then, to
make everything worse, I went back and read the contract
and it's like, yeah, no, there is no refund. I
remember exactly where I was, because I was in Union Square,
(12:15):
and I cried, and I really thought, oh, this is
where your ambition has met your delusion.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She did the only thing she could think of. She
picked up the phone and started dialing up sponsors.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I thought, Okay, if I can get the sponsorship costs
to cover these costs, I think will be okay.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
We sold out. Sponsors came, and more celebrities came.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Tracy Ellis threw Pattern, her new haircare product into the crowd.
But it was definitely a game of arithmetic, because I really,
really really was stretching myself and stretching my resources to
a degree that I don't even know if I knew
how much stress.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
was going to be coming.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Well, what a rich conversation with Imani. I was so
inspired by her. She's such a light.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I thought it was a great conversation for someone who
runs essentially an experienced company. She's an incredibly reflective and
inwardly facing person. I have to give her props for
recognizing herself in being incredibly self aware, and she's managed
to construct something that resonates in that way with both
(13:30):
her passion and her personal preferences.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
That's right, And as someone who's a cultural strategist, I
just find this space so interesting. You know, there are
brands that are born out of the culture, and then
there are those that tap into culture. And the way
that I think about it is brands that are born
out of the culture.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Culture is that origin story.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
It's community first, right, So in her case, she's this
black female founder has created a community and a business for
other black and brown people. That is like the DNA
of what she's created. And then there are brands that
are tapping into the culture where they're using culture more
as a marketing lever and they're more brand first. So
(14:10):
that's how I think about it. I'm curious, does that
resonate with you? Is that kind of what you saw
in her story too?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, I think there's a third category. I think that
is her category. Ooh well, I think there are brands
that grow out of culture. I think there are brands
that leverage culture, and then I think there are brands
that create culture. Now those are rare. Those are the
ones that really burst onto the scene. Like I think
of Peloton that way, that created a subculture that didn't
exist before around exercise. Whereas I think what she did
(14:40):
and it's no less impactful, it's just different. Is she
tapped into an unmet need of that culture and found
a way to dig into it and amplify it and
give it a home. And I think that's powerful in
its own right.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
What are the questions that I hear a lot is
when should I be part of the cultural conversation? And
I think the question you need to ask yourself is
like does it make sense to jump in? And there's
usually two things. There's alignment, does what's happening culturally align
with your brand? And then there's timeliness, like can you
jump in on if it's more trend based, something that's
(15:13):
in the here and now. I've had fun watching the
Y two K two thousand trend crop up in culture recently,
people are going back to nostalgia time of online and
offline and flip phones and velour track suits, and that's
been a fun one to see pop up. But you've
seen some brands that shouldn't have been part of it
who are jumping in.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I think where brands go wrong is when they try
to engage with part of the culture that really is
either not that relevant, where they don't have any particular
reason to have something to say, it usually falls flat.
I mean, it's the same thing I tell people when
they call me for career advice, and I say, the
number one thing you can do in your career and
your life is to be authentic. Because people can smell
(15:54):
bs a mile away. There are brands that sit at
the crux of something happening in culture where it's obviously
that they need to participate in it. But when brands
try to force their way in, it rarely ends.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Well, yeah, credibility has to be there, authenticity has to
be there. So one of the really brass tax questions
I get a lot from entrepreneurs and small business owners
is if you look at a calendar, the amount of
cultural moments that happen in any given year, it's like
a hundred you know, it's like god absurd, like do
I participate? And then then you have these cultural moments,
(16:26):
which is these cultural flashpoints, these viral trends, and do
I jump in on that. I like to tell founders
to pick a few that, again feel aligned with your brand,
that makes sense, put them on the calendar, plan for them.
If something happens to pop up that you feel is aligned,
go for it. But for the most part, less is more.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
These things, most of them just go right by people.
So you can spend a lot of energy engaging in
these cultural moments. But these cultural moments, for the most part,
pass very quickly, and so my view is less is
definitely more. The speed at which trends and memes and
fads come and go is only ever getting faster. So
you will occasionally hit on one and it'll be a
(17:09):
perfect storm and you'll ride it. It's not that common.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, it's not that common.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
So let go of the cognitive fatigue of trying to
pay attention to everything that's happening.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, let's get back to Imani. Over the next three years,
CultureCon continued to grow and flourish. Even in twenty twenty
Imani held CultureCon at home. Twenty two thousand people showed up,
but she would continue to work at her corporate job
while growing CultureCon for three more years.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
For a good amount of time, maybe six years, I
had two full time jobs. And I look back at
that version of myself and I was just so hungry.
I wasn't satisfied. And I think for me, it felt
so much bigger than just me being satisfied. It just
felt like our community deserved a space like this where
(17:58):
the quality and the intention was there and we weren't
in afterthought.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And if you're wondering how someone could work two full
time jobs for six whole years, yes, she had the drive,
but she also had a sense of awareness about her
timeline and had the confidence to stick to her plan
despite what other people may have recommended.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
For those six years, I was living two worlds. I
would work at Bravo from eight am until seven pm,
take a dinner break, go to watch What Happens Live
live at eleven pm, take a car home, get home
at maybe one am. Then I would sleep from like
one to five and work on CultureCon from like you know,
(18:38):
six to seven.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I loved my job.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You know, and so I think for a lot of people,
the origin story was like you couldn't stand your nine
to five, so you leave and find freedom. I really
liked my boss, and my corporate job was really teaching
me how to be a leader.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Imani had worked herself into a VP position and CultureCon
was growing. By the end of twenty two twenty two,
she was finally ready to give the Creative Collective her
sole focus. Twenty twenty three was her first year as
full time CEO.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And I felt like I had a lot to prove
because I was like, it doesn't work, it's not because
I didn't try. I was a team captain in my
high school track team, and my coach would say it's
not going to fail because of me, and that is
something that's like carved on my heart. So I was like,
if it doesn't work as an entrepreneur, it's not because
(19:29):
I didn't really give it a go.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But I overdid it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
In the first half of twenty twenty three, Imani and
her team put on a CultureCon in Atlanta sold out,
another in LA.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Sold out, and my body was like, are we okay?
How am I going to tell myself that we have
the biggest culture con New York coming up in October.
I was hitting a breaking point and I said, I can't.
I have to take a break. I remember that I
had free will, and I just stopped.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Out from her biggest event of the year, and based
on everything she'd worked up to, this was going to
be her biggest event ever, and Imani walked away. The
inspiration for this break came from one of her longtime
heroes and creative inspirations, James Baldwin.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
James Baldwin has always resonated with me. I feel like
the reason I adore him so much, as he puts
so much language to things that I feel. And so
I started reading about his time in America and how
he went to Paris in the sixties and met so
many different artists and so many different people and got
(20:36):
to show a different expression of himself. And I said,
I'm going to do that. I'm going to go to Paris.
I'm gonna take a break. And so as I burned out,
I took myself on a creative residency in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I'm a banker. I don't know what a creative residence.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I know I kind of invented it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Actually I feel like bankers really need this. So it
is a curriculum that I built for myself. And the
goal was not that the output would be some work
of art. I would be the work of art. I
did thirty days in France. I went from Paris and
then I did the south of France, and along the
way I built this curriculum that I followed.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The first part.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Of my creative residency is play, and the definition is
if there's no reason to say no, say yes. And
so I was saying yes to everything, to crepes, to
artists drawing me in the streets, to getting a drink
with a new friend, and I just allowed myself to
shake off the pretension of adulthood and just be so
(21:40):
light and free. The second part is still, which is
the hardest part for me, because still is different than rest.
You're still lying in wait, you're just reflecting and thinking.
And so that's the second part. And then the third
part is to really act. And so it's okay, in
my playtime, in my still time, what do I want
(22:03):
to take with me as.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I return back to my regular schedule.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
By the end of my trip, I was so inspired
and so rested and so ready to tackle CultureCon.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Interesting because you know, some entrepreneurs come on and they're like,
you can't be an entrepreneur unless you are willing to
live it, breathe it, eat it, sleep at twenty four, seven,
three sixty five. That's it. That's the only way. There
can be nothing else in your life other than building
that company.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think there are seasons of that in my twenties.
You know, when I talk about starting this company at
twenty five to thirty, that was my life. I made
a lot of sacrifices. And I will never tell an
entrepreneur that you don't need to be obsessed. You need
a borderline level of obsession, and you need to care.
If you don't care, literally, no one else will care.
But I do think that there also comes a season
where you can also see am I sustaining? Because if
(22:51):
you're an entrepreneur and at year six you're doing the
same amount of can't sleep, always drinking energy drinks, amount
of pork that you were doing and year one.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
I really would say that you've got to.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Look at your system and we've got a problem. It's
not that it's not hard, but you should have different
kinds of problems. I think because we have to return
to the natural order, which is rhythm. And somewhere along
the line, we told ourselves that if you push, push, push,
push harder, you'll get a better return. But I'm realizing
that at a certain point it is diminishing returns. It's
(23:25):
not your best. You're sluggish. It's not creative, it's not innovative.
Anytime I'm giving advice, I say, this is what works
for me, but it's based on my values. If you
don't value rest, you might not think that a creative
residency makes sense for you in this season of your life.
I say, give it a little bit of time. You
probably will come around to it. I did PR in
(23:45):
crisis for ten years. I understand everything being urgent. I
completely understand never turning off. But in this chapter of
my life, that just isn't the version of life that
I want to have.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Kathleen, what an interesting subject. I'm just so fascinated by
the idea that in the busiest season of her life,
when she's super successful, Imani took thirty days off to rest.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
What I'm obsessed with, as you know, is the athlete mindset.
So when I started out as a business owner, I
didn't really relate to the Howard Schultz's of the world
and the Sheryl Sandberg's and lean in, lean out. The
business leaders had no real resonance for me, and so
I actually turned to athletes to see what does it
take to go the distance in your business to have
(24:35):
that endurance. And I love that Imani, with her background
in sport and being a runner, she was able just
to parlay that naturally into her business where she thinks
about things as sprint periods, rest and recovery periods, understanding
her natural rhythm and that she needs to create in seasons.
(24:55):
So it's not a marathon, it's not a sprint. It's
more of this seasonal approach to figuring out when you
need to be on, when you need to be off.
You don't need to be on all the time either.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And in her off time, sort of like an athlete
would say, she's using that time for active recovery. She's traveling,
she's experiencing new things and using that time for herself.
And even though those excursions may feel totally unrelated to
her job, all of that comes through in her work
later on. I travel a lot for work. I've been
all around the world over the last thirty years and
one of the things that I find as a business
(25:29):
person is I really pay attention when I travel. And
I do this when I travel in my own life.
Is I pay attention to the business environment in other
countries because I find that I'm inspired for things that
I can do better when I get back. And when
you live sort of immersed in the bubble that we
have in the US or in your particular state or
your hometown or wherever it is, I do think sometimes
(25:52):
you don't get the breadth of thinking that comes when
you travel internationally. I lived in London for a couple
of years, and I remember thinking, like the way they
do certain things, whether it's food delivery or banking, they
had taken some friction out of some things that we
hadn't quite gotten to in the US. I'll give you
a great example of one that came here when I
lived in London. Tap to pay was like already way
(26:14):
a thing. So I would just tap my watch to
get on the tube in London, which you can now
do in New York. But when I first came back,
you couldn't. Wow. I could do that back in twenty
eighteen in London, and so I found that after that experience,
when I traveled to new countries, whether it's in Asia
or Europe or it doesn't matter where, I'm always paying
attention to how people are transacting business and how they're
(26:34):
doing it, not just in my own industry but in others.
And that I get lots of ideas from that.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Yeah, I like you lots of business travel and lots
of personal travel. I think it's interesting, right because when
I think about travel, I think about domestic and I
think about international very different, like the international travels perhaps.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
A bit more of a luxury.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
It leads to more disruptive thinking around processes and people,
and you have things that hit you that otherwise wouldn't
immersing yourself in culture, which we don't do nearly enough
because we're behind our computer screens. We're not getting out
in the world and actually bumping up against real people
and what's really happening in the market, and you just
(27:17):
you start to get such an intuitive sense for what's
happening that you don't get again when you're tethered to
a computer screen. So I think that combination is powerful
if you can make it work. But at the very
least small business owners need to be getting out way
more than most that I talk to are, Like, the
(27:37):
return on investment is ten x spending a day out
in the world, wandering around, taking it all in as
just an observer, relative to a day behind a computer screen.
And I find that that tends to work best closer
to home.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
That's true. And you need to talk to your employees
and your clients. I mean, when we first started this,
we talked about the bus trip that I took. Yeah,
I mean, you have to get out there and you know,
put the phone away. Imani is a great example of
what happens when we can just put the phone down
for a little while. But she didn't just discover the
benefits of travel as an adult.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
When I was younger.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You know, my parents are missionaries, and my dad used
to work for the North American Mission Board, and I
remember being five am and he would come and kiss
me goodbye and go fly off, and I just.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Thought that was so cool.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Sometimes I really have to just like pinch myself that
I get to travel for business for a company that
I created.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It's really mind blowing. But I love traveling the world.
I love feeling really.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Small in new spaces and I really am a fan
of talking to the person that I sit by on
the plane for the first ten minutes. Then I'll put
on my earphones and I'll listen to a movie. But
I'm a curious person, and I think travel, just like
expedites that curiosity.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Imani has also opened up new creative residencies for other
people who are hoping to rest and reset, just like
she did.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I really did that travel experience for myself to come
back to my most abundant and creative self. But what
I found is that people that followed wanted that itinerary
as well, and so I was able to bring back
the creative experience package it up and now we are
doing creative residencies with entrepreneurs and corporate creators who are
burnt out. And so I think that's really such a
(29:21):
visible example of traveling somewhere and allowing that to be
a through line and an inspiration to my business.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Does that mean travel has become sort of essential to
the way that you think about building your business.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I think the thing about creative residency is you can
do it wherever you live. So obviously, you know, we
glorified like oh yes, go to France and need a
baguette and you'll come back James Baldwin. But you can
also do creative residency in New York City. It's just
about reframing kind of your approach to your journey.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
For Imani and for anyone seeking more inspiration, it's more
about being out in the world, observing, exploring, and finding
new ways to think about things. Sparks of new ideas.
They can come from anywhere. You mentioned a house party
in London that influenced how you run your events. I mean, yeah,
I wouldn't really think that a house party in London
would translate into a mega event like what you do.
(30:16):
I used to live in London, so tell me really.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I was in this house party in London and I
get there and it's the first thirty minutes to an hour,
people are just meeting each other, and then the host
comes out and she gives us like an icebreaker and
put us in different groups, and we were able to
kind of compete in this different game. And I thought
there's something here, like I love that you don't come
(30:40):
in and immediately there are rules. You kind of come
in and like do your own thing, but then instead
of letting the whole night go like that there's a
little bit of structure in the middle, just enough that
like you're not forced, but you're encouraged to meet other.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
People because you don't have to wander around looking for
someone to talk to you, right.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And I thought that was so thoughtful because without that
like structure, we probably would have all stated in our
little pods all night.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Not only did it help Imani break out of her
shell and meet new people, she also brought that idea
of structured and unstructured time back to CultureCon.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I was like, Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
What if we, in addition to having like a formal panel,
had a little bit more unstructured things. We're introducing something
this year called the four Minute Pitch Contest, where you
can get on the Culture stage for four minutes and
pitch whatever you're working on. It's going back to the apartment,
getting through a breakup, trying to invest. We have four
minutes to pitch, and then the community has four minutes back,
(31:37):
one sentence at a time to give you advice, and
then we connect you at the end.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
It's such a merge between your personal life and your
professional life, right because your events are social events, which
is what a lot of people spend their personal time
doing so. Are you sort of secretly working all the
time because you're trying to figure out how to turn
your personal social experiences into your events or it's not
that explicit.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
I don't think it's that explicit.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I think the reason that culture Con has scaled is
because it came from personal events that people can relate to.
But I also have so many other things that just
aren't monetizable that I just enjoy, and I think that
goes back to playtime.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I do want to talk to you about what's next
for CultureCon because I understand that there's new verticals coming,
and so tell me about Like, you've got CultureCon where
it needs to be, it's time for the next leg up.
What does that next leg up look like?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
So one of the things we've been really excited about
is this year at culture Con, we're launching more summits.
So summits are really really specific learning verticals for our
community based on the feedback they've given us in the
focus groups. And so we're introducing a sports summit for
creators and creatives and executives who want to work in sports.
We're introducing an AI Summit, the first ever Founder Summit,
(32:51):
also bringing back our small business market and so it's
an entire ecosystem of education, thinking of it as almost
like business school for the entrepreneur and the creative. And
we're also going to have speed networking this year, a
job fair this year. Obviously, this economy has been up
and down, and so just excited for people to talk
to recruiters and understand in this new age, like what
(33:13):
are they looking for when it comes to hiring. And
then CultureCon Week is back. So leading up to CultureCon
there's over thirty events that take place all over New
York City.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Where do you want it to be in five years?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I don't have you know, it's so funny I.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Used to do.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You don't do the five year thing?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I don't do the five year thing. I used to
and I really needed that in my teens and twenties.
I remember coming into NBC at twenty years old and saying,
I want to be a vice president by the time
I'm thirty.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
That was a very clear goal.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
And I was thirty and I became a vice president
and then I stopped doing it after that. I have
surpassed my goals. It's like I don't know. Maybe I'll
start like a dinner club.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
All right. So the one question I want to ask
you before we go, because I ask everyone who comes
on the show, this is if you could give an
aspiring or current entrepreneur one piece of advice, what would
it be.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Keep your eyes on your own paper, focus on the
art that you're creating, and get advice, but don't compare
your art to someone else's art. They might have started earlier,
they might have more resources. But like, it's not over
till it's over.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Imani, thanks so much. It's really been great having you here.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Unshakeables.
If you liked this episode, please rate and review it
on our next episode. We're talking to founders who happen
to be doctors, but they're doctors who are taking on
the way that our entire healthcare system practices emergency medicine,
and they're doing it by starting a tech company. Emergency
departments aren't optimally equipped to take care of complex older.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Adult This is a five alarm fire for a lot
of hospitals and health systems.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
I'm Ben Walter, and this is the Unshakeables from Chase
for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you
back here soon.
Hosts And Creators
Ben Walter
Kathleen Griffith
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