Jason reacts live after the Indiana Pacers get yet another wild comeback win, this time against the Oklahoma City Thunder in Game 1 of the NBA Finals. He discusses Tyrese Haliburton and Pascal Siakam leading the charge to steal a win against Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Lu Dort, Jalen Williams, and Chet Holmgren.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
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(02:00):
All right, welcome to HOOPSNI. You're at the volume havy Thursday. Everybody,
hope Aul, if you guys are having to get a
great week.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
As I said after Game one of the Eastern Conference Finals, there's.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Some sort of weird voodoo magic going on that makes
it so that you have to beat the Indiana Pacers
for like five times in a seven game series, and
once again in classic fashion, down against the Ropes several
different times down the stretch, several different runs from the
(02:29):
Thunder to build more additional margin, and then impossible shot
after impossible shot from the Pacers down the stretch. Aaron
Nismith coming flying out of that left corner, rising and
firing like it's Game one against the Knicks all over again.
Andrew Nemhard with the seventeen dribble step back against Shay Gilgas,
(02:52):
Alexander with a hand right in his face to hit
the three. And then Tyrese Halliburden with clock winding down
against Kison Walla is a quick little stop and pop
jumper a little bit outside of the right elbow, and
the Pacers are up one zero in the NBA Finals
and very much in position to give themselves a chance
(03:12):
to win this series. Just absolutely unbelievable stuff. All my notes,
Crumple them up, throw them in the trash. As far
as the narrative of this game goes, We're going to
get into as much of the basketball as we can
and talk about the different dynamics at play in the
series and try to interpret as much of this as
we can into what's repeatable and what is not. But
(03:32):
I am in complete shock, as I can imagine just
about anybody outside of the Pacers fans who have been
believing in this team all season long. I'm in shock,
and I barely know where to start with this thing.
I will say before we get started, I cannot say
enough how much this Pacers team has just injected an
(03:53):
enormous amount of entertainment into this NBA Playoffs. The NBA
Playoffs is just a lot of blowouts over the years
in recent years, kind of lacking some of that high
level entertainment in the later rounds. And this Pacers team
and their unwillingness to give up, and the way that
they play and the way that they put themselves in
(04:13):
position two steel games, with their incredible attention to detail
and sharpness and relentless motor and effort, have just literally
injected the enthusiasm and honestly just what I think is
a very beautiful brand of basketball for all of us
to watch and enjoy, for young basketball players to learn
(04:35):
from to improve their own games, for basketball teams and
basketball coaches to improve.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
The way they play.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I can't say enough about what the Pacers have done
in this playoff run for my view of the game,
I think for everybody's learning of the game, and obviously
just making for a very entertaining basketball product. You guys
are the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the
Hoops to Night YouTube channels. You don't miss any more
of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at Underscore JCENLTC.
Don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about a podcast for
(05:02):
you wherever you get you podcast owner Hoops Tonight. It's
also super helpful if you leave a rating and a
review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our
social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make
sure you guys follow us there for additional content throughout
the season. We are not doing a mail bag at
the tail end of tonight's show because we're hitting an
all star topic surrounding the new move from Adam Silver
(05:23):
to try to pit Team USA versus the world. We're
gonna have that, but we will when we wrap up
here tonight be heading over to Playback that's Playback dot
tv slash Hoops Tonight. We will be doing a chat
mail bag there. We'll also be taking callers. We'll obviously
watch the film from that insane fourth quarter and go
(05:43):
over how the Pacers stole this game. I'm looking forward
to watching through that with you guys. So when we
wrap up here on YouTube, remember to follow us over
to playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight. All right, let's
talk some basketball. So this game really was a story
of two in a lot of ways. I talked about
how in the series preview that there is like an
(06:07):
opening test with Oklahoma City these fail points, if you
guys remember, I talked about these potential failure points for
Indiana in the series where if they just struggled to
get the ball to where it needed to be, that
they were dead on arrival. And those we talked about specifics.
We talked about ball pressure in the back court. We
(06:27):
talked about off ball denials. We talked about high post
entries and low post entries. We talked about double teams
and posts and ISOs and drives. We talked about like
when they get the ball into the middle of the floor,
whether it's through a drive or a roll or a post,
the ability for them to pass out of the traffic
in those spots on the floor. And they failed that test.
(06:50):
Miserably in the first half, Like as bad as you
will ever see, especially relative to the way that this
Indiana Pacers team typically takes care of the basketball. Turnovers
bringing the ball up the floor, dudes getting poked away
from behind as they're not paying attention to what's happening
behind them, turnovers on post entries, turnovers on pocket passes
(07:14):
as they're missing guys tagging from the weak side.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Everything.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
The big one that they were dealing with in that
first half was posting ISOs when guys turned their back,
just like as soon as someone turned their back, the
dude is just swooping in from behind and swiping the
ball away in.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
The half court.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Nineteen turnovers in the first half a truly remarkable performance
defensively from the Thunder. Honestly, I thought it was a
showcase of everything that makes them so great. Again, Like,
for those of you haven't very Thunder fans, maybe if
you haven't watched as much Pacers, Like, that's a team
that doesn't turn the ball over a lot. That's a
team that typically handles that sort of aggression and pressure
(07:49):
extremely well, and they didn't in that first half. And
it's because of the job that lou Dort can do
on Tyrese Haliburton to make him uncomfortable. It's because of
the job that those guys do, swarming and swiping at
the basketball, lou Dort, his activity on the back line.
Even in this game, Caruso on the back line, everyone
flying around and making plays, even Shay getting in on
(08:12):
the turnover forcing. Now, to Indiana's credit, their transition defense
in that catastrophe in the first half kept them in
the game. We've talked so much over the course of
the last few weeks about low hanging fruit. These are
things that are available in every single basketball game to
every single team. Now, you need a certain amount of
(08:36):
elite shot making to make it to your ultimate goal
in the NBA. Like, that's the fourth time in this
playoff run that Tyres Haliburton has hit a tough shot
in a one on one situation to either win a
game or to put his team in position to win
a game in the final of seconds of the as
the clock is expiring. Obviously, the Aaron Nesmith shot, the
(08:58):
Andrew Nemhard shot, there were a lot of really tough
shots that were mixed in there, and obviously you're not
just gonna win a game because you're a sharp, disciplined
basketball team, you've got to have a certain amount of
individual greatness to carry you over the top, especially when
you're staring down shake Gil just Alexander on the other end, who,
outside of his last couple possessions, I thought, had a
(09:18):
really good game. And at a certain point, in order
to put yourself in position to weather that storm, to
live through some turnovers, to live through some sloppiness, you
got to be super sharp in other areas of the game.
And they consistently got back, protected the rim and stopped
(09:39):
the ball, got contests on three point shooters, and so
despite allowing or despite turning the ball over nineteen times
in the first half, they allowed just nine points off
of those turnovers. And then, as we say, when you're
going to apply that type of pressure, if you're going
(10:00):
to deny, if you're going to double, if you're going
to tag rollers and offer a ton of nail help
and double team post ups and do all of that stuff,
the flip side is guys are open, and if you
can get the ball through the defense to those guys
they're still open. They are a good closeout team. They're
(10:23):
gonna make it more difficult than it appears on the
surface compared to some other opponents out there. But you
can't act. They don't actually have six players on the court.
They just feel like that sometimes if you can take
care of the basketball and you can pass it through
their defense, you can get open shots against Oklahoma City's
base scheme. And in the second half just six turnovers total,
(10:49):
three in the third quarter, three in the fourth quarter,
and just two points off of turnovers as a result.
Mixed in obviously with the tough shot making that, we
saw a lot of pretty solid either like wide open
catch and shoot threes for guys like Obie Toppin or
you know, moderately contested catch and shoot threes that are
good looks for guys like Aaron Nesmith, and a lot
(11:14):
of pretty high quality attempts right around the rim.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And they scored.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Sixty six points in the second half and all night long,
their defense held up pretty well.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Wasn't perfect.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
They ran a lot of traditional coverages, and at various
points against the traditional coverages, they struggled. Shake gel just Alexander,
to his credit, a lot of stars in NBA history
struggle in the NBA Finals. They get a little passive
or they at tentative or they you know, kind of
get just they just look kind of shook from the moment.
I mean, you saw it happen to several paces. You
(11:48):
saw it to happen to damn near the entire Pacers
bench to start this game. Although shout out to Obi
Top and he had about as nightmare start to this
game as you could possibly have, fumbling the ball and
throwing it around all over the place. But he hit
a couple threes and he loosened up and he was
awesome from that point forward and hit so many big
shots for the Pacers in this game.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
But once.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
At the start of the game, Shake Gildess Alexander came
out and he was like, screw being passive, screw easing
my way into this game. I'm shooting the basketball. And
he had eleven shot attempts in the first quarter. I
think he had like nineteen or twenty in the first half.
And he essentially accelerated the process with which he became comfortable,
(12:31):
which actually thought was smart, especially as a scoring guard.
Like if you're a scoring guard, and again, the formula
for this team is elite defense and shay shot making
on a lot of nights, especially when things bogged down
the way they did, and he just got himself into
a pretty good rhythm. I thought he passed out of
an ISO to JB late that he probably didn't need to.
(12:51):
It kind of looked like he was just hesitant to
go ISO again and then overcooked his last little pull
up jump shot long off the back end of the rim.
But overall through the game, I mean like tough shot making.
Give Shaye get a decent look, and you know you
have Andrew Nemhard hit a crazy seventeen dribble step back
three right in his face, Like there's a certain amount
(13:12):
of variance that goes into that sort of thing. And
I thought Shaye played a pretty damn good game under
the circumstances with the game, With the way that the
game went, the Pacers came out in a high drop
coverage with Turner. I've talked about this before, the high
drop coverage with Indiana with respect that Shae has nothing
to do with taking away the pull up jump shot
off off of the three point line if he comes
(13:35):
off the screen clean. It's all about trying to stop
Shaye from turning the corner with the runway and shake
cooked that coverage right off the bat and was getting
right around Turner and drawn fowls and getting all the
way to the rim. That's why we saw so many
Shaye layups in the first part of the game. Then
the Pacers adjusted and they went from that high drop
to more of a low drop where Turner was meeting
(13:56):
him far back, and that was when Shaye really started
to get going with his mid range shot making.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And that was kind of how all of that.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Initial work early in the game that he did to
get his feel and to get his aggression really started
to pay off. And like out, like Shay was awesome
in this game, lou Dort was awesome in this game.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Lou Dirt. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
He shot so poorly overall in this postseason run, but
against the Pacers in the regular season he killed them.
And he went right back to killing them tonight. Hit
five threes and a lot of those like kind of
semi tough contested threes that you need to knock down
in the postseason. But outside of Shaye and lou Dort,
they generally did a pretty good job. I think there
(14:37):
are some things they need to clean up. We saw
a lot of we saw a lot of the attacking
of Tyrese Haliburton and Obi Toppin and a little bit
of Siakam too and in guard guard screens out above
the break and Shae had some success like quickly attacking
those guys when they were hedging and splitting action and
(14:58):
drawing fouls, and he did a lot of damage up there.
But for the most part in the aggregate, they prevented
the explosive Oklahoma City quarter. How did they prevent the
explosive Oklahoma City corner quarter by keeping them out of
transition again, Guys, this is a team that in this
postseason run is averaging like twenty three to twenty something
(15:20):
crazy in points off of turnovers and pulling it up
real quick right now. They are carrying their offense for
extended stretches in this postseason literally by just forcing turnovers
and getting out in transition. Twenty three point eight is
their postseason average in points off of turnovers held them
to just eleven tonight. Oklahoma City's offense is capable of
(15:44):
being very good, but they don't have the depth of
elite shot making off the ball and just overall offensive
feel to be a super explosive slow down offense. If
you can keep them out of transition by preventing those
easy transition points by getting back, stopping the ball getting
(16:06):
to the rim, forcing them to knock down jump shots,
you can keep them from having the explosive quarter. And
that's what Indiana did. Indiana had a thirty five point quarter.
Oklahoma City didn't have a thirty point quarter in this game.
Let's get to some of the other little adjustments that
I saw. Oklahoma City they give up a lot of
(16:28):
open threes with their swarming defense, and it is a
trade off. Like again, in the first half, they forced
a bunch of turnovers and it generally paid off. Right
didn't get out and transition as much as they could have,
but overall they had a good half. In the second half,
Indiana was able to successfully get the ball out and
they knocked down shots. They could try to loosen that
(16:49):
up a little bit, essentially, just being a little bit
more picky. I liked when they dove at the basketball,
when some of the lesser ball handlers turned their head.
If Siakam turns his head away from you go for it.
Pobie Topping turns his head away from you, go for it.
If Miles turner turns his head away from you, go
for it. But if he's looking at you, or if
(17:11):
it's anybody that can handle the ball pretty well, be
a little bit more hesitant to help because this is
a Pacers team that will get the ball out. Almost
half of their shot attempts tonight were pretty clean. There
were three point shots and they got a lot of
pretty clean looks as part of that process. Oklahoma City also,
I thought, did a decent amount of damage on the
offensive glass in the first half. Indiana flipped that dynamic
(17:35):
of the second half. You got started to see some
of their size on the interior do some more damage.
That's an area where Oklahoma City can do better. We
saw them do better in the first half of this
particular game. Just looking through my notes really quick here,
but bear with me. It was an absolute disaster of
a planning night for the show with me putting together
the show based on Oklahoma City controlling the I think
(17:58):
it was their first lead on the tyrese Alivert shot
that he made. It just an absolutely unbelievable game. Overall,
Indiana did have success attacking smalls. You saw some of
the specific differences, like it when they're doing that three
quarter front. We saw Rick Carlisle talking about some of
(18:19):
those like tight window bounce passes aren't there. It's almost
better for them to push the post a little bit
further out and then look to attack with an aggressive
move like spinning off of that guy or something along
those lines. We also did see a good amount of
that damage being done on the offensive glass. It's an
alternative you had to switch instead of trying to cram
(18:40):
in some crazy entry pass. Put something up from the perimeter,
a decent you know, swing the ball around, run a
quick ghot screen, do something to get you a decent
perimeter jump shot look, and if you shoot it high
and soft enough, you're gonna give your big guy a
pretty good chance to win that battle on the flip side.
I think that's something that we saw in that second half.
Unbelievable stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Again.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think Indiana could. I think Indiana could lighten up
a little bit on some of their traditional coverages. We
saw a lot of them giving up pretty easy stuff
like the ball screen coverages with Turner weren't working against Shaye,
and either the high drop or the low dropped Thomas
Bryant gave up an easy layup to Isaiah Hartenstein on
a play where he was opening up his stance for
Siakam to cut through because it should have been a switch.
(19:25):
It wasn't, so then Hardenstein which just went right to
the basket for a layup. We saw Mark Dagnaud after
a timeout after Obi Toping hit a three to cut
the lead to eight. They just had Shay set a
backscreen for kese On Wallace on tyrese. Haliburton Pacers didn't
want to switch it them hard was hugged up to
Shae easy layup for kease On Wallace cutting along that backside.
(19:47):
Even in that second half down the stretch, we saw
them get a lot of good looks out of those hedges, right.
I thought they looked a little bit better when they
were just super aggressive on those switches, those hedges like
actually like almost like a just attacking him and forcing
him to get rid of the basketball. At least in
those late game situations where they're packing the pain, they
were able to force some catch and shoot jumpers from
(20:08):
some of their lesser shooters down the stretch by doing that,
I just think they need to get away from passive
traditional coverages. These big guys can't contain the ball well enough.
Thomas Bryant can't, Miles Turner can't. They're giving up a
little bit too much. Drible penetration there. I've liked it
against Jalen Williams. We saw Miles Turner against Jalen Williams
and the drop coverage be able to get some stops
(20:29):
in at the rim and in the short range. But
specifically with Shay, I would either be super aggressive or
I would just switch and force him to ISO and
then be aggressive in your help pinching down off of
him because again, in those traditional coverages that were given
up too many of those openings.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
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Speaker 2 (21:18):
Man I know that was all over the place, but
it was that kind of game. I'm gonna have Jackson Kamania.
We're gonna talk a little bit more about the game,
and then we will get into some of that All
Star topic before we head over to playback.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Let's do it.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Let's do it first. I think I'm gonna throw at you.
And we got a super chat question from Cole. Are
people undervaluing Rick Carlyle's coaching experience compared to Mark Dagnault's.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
So I didn't. This is tricky.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I think the credit that goes to Carlile has more
to do with foundational stuff, Like I didn't think it was.
I didn't think Rick Carlisle went out there and just
coached this like super magnificent Exit is a O's game
that diced up the thunder. I didn't think that was
what happened here. I think that I think that the
credit goes to Rick Carlile in the work that he's done.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Like, guys, the.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Team's basketball character flows from the top down. It's what
kind of guys? What kind of dudes is your front
office going after? Is he just strictly going after talent
or is he going after guys that fit the culture
of what you're trying to build.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Obviously, there's a certain skill set you need as well,
but there's a certain like are you are you getting
competitive ass kickers that like to play hard and that
want to be the best basketball player that they could
possibly be, down to the head coach, down to the
star of your team, down to the co star of
your team, down to the types of dudes that you
have in that locker room. But Rick Carlile, from day
one of this season and dating back multiple years, has
(22:53):
just instilled in these guys this level of intensity, this
level of relentlessness, attention to detail.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
You know how crazy it is.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Off of nineteen turnovers only give up nine points in
transition to the Oklahoma City Thunder. You know how sharp
you have to be, You know how dedicated you have
to be. Watching that juxtaposed with what we saw from
the Knicks in Game six of the Eastern Conference Finals,
it was absolutely amazing. But like I didn't think again,
as far as Dagnall goes like, we did see a
(23:24):
little bit of that, like bogging down ISO offense at
the top of the key, but I didn't think they
got bad looks. They got some clean catch and shoot looks. Again,
I thought Shay shouldn't have passed the ball to jadaub
on the second to last ISO. You're asking a twenty
three year old to bail you out there. You're the dude,
go go, go, get a bucket and then he overcooked
a jumper that if he makes it, they win, right, So, like,
I don't want to overreact. I want to just give
(23:46):
credit to Carlisle for the basketball character that he's instilled
in this team.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Yeah, I agree, And normally I don't care about stuff
like Shamstronia reporting before the game.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Here's how here's my take on it.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
But he did have a stand up about team building
and about how this might be a sign for teams
with considering both of the teams going after some of
these ultra competitive, multiple college year guys as opposed to
just hunting for a star every time in the draft,
and that type of thing really feels relevant when you're
seeing guys like Andrew dem Hard be so successful in
(24:19):
the playoffs. You're seeing guys like Lou Dort who not
even he wasn't even drafted, but like guys who are
just have this highly super high motor super highly competitive
are being are a lot more valuable for teams like this,
especially for teams with championship aspirations, than taking your dart
throw at the hopeful star pick.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You know, we talk about this all the time, like
playing winning basketball sucks. It's hard, man Like, it's hard
in the normal context of like you guys going to
play pickup, like when we go play pickup. Obviously, if
you want to win more pickup games, you gotta do
all the shit that's hard, right. You gotta run back
and transition defense, you gotta palk through screens, you gotta
(24:58):
put your body on the line for rebound, you got
to run the floor on offense, got to do all
those sorts of things. Now add the additional layer of
advanced NBA schematics and all the different game plan stuff
you got to remember, and all the specific stuff within
different coverages that they go to utilize, and it's just
extremely difficult. It's extremely difficult. And so you need a
certain type of personality, a certain type of guy in
(25:20):
that locker room that's willing to put in the work,
and it's a little bit harder to find than you think. Again,
there's I think that there is a competitive nature trait
that is vastly underrated in the NBA. And it's just like,
how much do your dudes hate to lose? Because if
they really hate to lose, then they will listen to
their coach when their coach is presenting to them a
(25:42):
plan with which to avoid that loss. And I just think, man,
I know you heard me at the top of the show.
I just can't say enough about this Pacers team and
how special they are just to the game of basketball
for the example that they represent.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Yeah, they I can't remember a team ever playing like
this ever, Like it's it's amazing how relentless they are
on both ends. They're like the seven second Sons offensively,
but they're kind of dynamic defensively at this point. They
like for when Pascal got healthy. At that point in
the regular season, they had the second best record in
the NBA, and their defense has been quite good since then.
(26:22):
It's hard to I can't think of teams that were
this sort of dynamic and speed oriented offensively that were
able to translate that to the defensive end.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Also, their relentlessness in rotation, like even like concession shots
like oh okay, see bang bang bang broke you down
got a wide open three, they're still throwing a close out.
It's just like a token close out. Like, let's not
let this dude get super comfortable. Let's make him realize
he's got to shoot it right now. Like there's just
it's so crazy, man. And then like, honestly too, I
(26:53):
want to hand it to Halliburton too. Like Haliburton was
having one of those games too, where he was getting
a couple of looks here and there. Occasionally you do
that classic thing where he drags out the ball screen
and then pump fakes and the dude just goes flying by.
But like he wasn't exactly getting super high quality looks,
but he just stayed invested and then made a couple
plays late when he needed to. It's this team, man,
(27:14):
and there's the tough shot making voodoo is legitimately crazy
because it's crazy. It's like they are at the end
of these games. Andrew Nemhard hit like legitimately a Kyrie
Irving dribble combination.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Well, he was dribbling in the air out of the
basketball three consecutive possessions. Yeah, and then he hits the
one of the most insane threes you could possibly hit
in that moment. Oh my god, he's missed three before
that rattles in just a laser that rattles in, and
Haliburton having the to your point, having the confidence in
the balls to take that last shot after not having
(27:50):
a particularly effective scoring game.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's one thing to have to.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Take that shot if you're a score first player, even
if you're having a bad game or if you're having
a great game. He is a pass first player who
was not having a good scoring and said, no problem,
give me the give me the fucking ball.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
He got like, and he shot that with conviction too,
Like he stopped and popped, and he put all his
legs into it, and he shot it high and he
shot it soft and it rattled in. Is unbelievable stuff.
Before we go over to the all star stuff, you
texted me about.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Halfway through the third quarter, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna read your exact text, okay,
And then what I want you to do is just
kind of explain if you still feel this way overall. Okay, Yes,
he said, I feel like the Pacers are really in
this series. Surprisingly, this dort shooting performance is giving me
Celtics Game one and twenty twenty two vibes dirt going
off and the Pacers can't stop turning the ball over
(28:42):
and there's still only down ten. I don't know, it
feels like they're in it to me.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So do you do you? Like you straight up think
the Pacers can win the series. I don't.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Well, I still really wasn't kind of wasn't expecting them
to win this game. I was saying that more of like, oh,
they're in the series, not even they're gonna win tonight.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I was like, Oh, they're more especially for game one.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I kind of thought Game one might be a blow
out the other way or like in okay, so he
might win by a lot. Yeah, And it looked like
that for a little while. It was teetering on the
edge of a potential blowout. And I don't know, I
think I am still discounting the devil magic of the
Pacers when I also texted you when Miles Turner missed
that wide open three and Halle missed a step back three,
(29:21):
and either of those threes I think would have tied
the game at that point or maybe cut it to
one possession with like three four minutes laught something like that,
and I was like, oh, that was our moment.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
That was it felt like their moment. It's like, dang,
they were making the comeback.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Had two very good looks to really get over that
sort of mental hurdle of tying the game or maybe
even taking the lead by one, and they missed them both,
and I was like, ah, there it is gone to
game two. Here am I the dumb one? I haven't
been been. I've also been discounting the Pacers this whole time.
It's unbelievable how they keep doing this. I do feel
like I mean, obviously they won Game one on the road.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
They're in the series.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Absolutely, I would expect, you know, a twenty point thunder
win game two.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
But how can we say that they have a chance
to win this sea I'm gonna put it like this simple.
I think it was Zach Low that said, like, h like,
anybody who's picking anything other than Oklahoma City in five
or six is expecting something really weird to happen. For
the record, I agree with that. So I'm not about here.
I'm not here saying Zach is wrong. Here's what I'm
(30:19):
thinking right this second, though, What do you mean something
something weird is gonna happen. This entire postseason for the
Pacers has been weird, Like everything about.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
It is weird.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like it's just what you got the weird game this
you just did it wed thing.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah exactly. It's like it's like here you go. It's
it just got weird. It just got weird. It just
got weird. Yeah, like I thought it was for me.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
It was the Turner three when Turner had that wide
open pick and pop three late that he missed and uh,
he had hit two in a row before that, but
like he earlier in the second half, but he missed
that pick and pop three and along off the back
of the rim, and they didn't get the offensive rebound,
and I was like, up there it goes and they
but they just kept going. They just they The never
stop thing is crazy. Highly underrated play in that sequence
(31:05):
was the Pascal Siakam offensive remount put.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Back off of unbelievable play.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Unbelievable play.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
They did a lot of damage on the offensive glass
along the baseline from their bigs down the stretch of
this game. I did think that was fascinating. Okay, see
really controlled things in that department early and then and
then the dynamic flip. Any other thoughts on the game
before we move over.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
I don't even know it's process. No, I mean, it's
just it's just unbelievable. I'm just so excited for this
series now. I was excited for the series before, but
now it feels like we're in for a real treat.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
I was.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
I was a little worried about the excitement level across
the board if there was an okay.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
See blowout, and now it feels like we're all locked in. Yeah,
the series.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I thought the game was immediately fun to watch, and
I wasn't worried about guys like us or the people
that watch this show particularly like enjoying enjoying watching the series,
but I was in I was concerned about whether or
not it could be competitive enough to be interesting to
the masses and the pacers once again. Like that, That's
what I meant off the top, Like the job they've done,
like straight up injecting casual joy and intensity and beauty
(32:08):
into this playoff.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Run is just crazy. Man.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
But the pace we're gonna head over to play back
in about ten minutes, I wanted to really quickly. Jackson
and I were going to have a quick little debate
about this team USA versus Team World. Adam Silver audible here.
So Adam Silver says that they're going to structure the
All Star Game as USA versus the World next year.
(32:33):
This has been the latest and a long line of
attempts for Adam Silver to try to make these guys compete.
It's literally all he's trying to do, get them, give
them a reason to compete, and they've been unsuccessful to
this point. I'm skeptical as to whether or not this
will work. I am intrigued by the matchup, though, so
(32:54):
obviously it gets tricky. There's some realities to how this
could even work. But I want to start by just
looking at the starting fives and just putting it together
from there and kind of working around so we can all.
I would argue that the world top five is really obvious,
(33:15):
and that is just Luka, Jokic, Chake Eu, just Alexander
Jannis and Wimby.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I agree wholehearted.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I don't think there's anybody else who has a case
to get into that group. Who is the USA five?
Speaker 4 (33:31):
I gotta assume they run back some version of the
Olympic five, which is Steph Booker Lebron Kadie and either
Bam or Anthony Davis, whoever is healthiest, I would assume,
But that's gotta be the first four, even like I
don't have no I do not care a single second
about how old Lebron James is, Like, you have to
(33:52):
run that group out right.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I The tricky thing there is I wonder if there's
some of those guys are gonna get bumped because of
just regular season performance, Like is Anthony Edward's gonna end
up right cramming his way into that list something like that.
At least they have some practice playing without Jason Tatum.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
And is maybe the answer ever Devin Booker.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Anyways, But yeah, I this is where it gets tricky.
The entire premise doesn't make a ton of sense because
in terms of debating these two teams competing, because the
entire idea is that these guys aren't competing. But like
there's an undeniable, like the Americans can run the floor
(34:35):
a little bit better. I would argue that it gets
a little tricky when they get stuck in the half court. Obviously,
Luka Nikola Jokic, shake yell, just Alexander that's the three
most surgical offensive players in the NBA at this point.
I will say this, though, I think splitting it up
and putting Steph Lebron and Katie on the same team,
(34:57):
do you think there's any chance that that brings the
competitive or do you think those old dudes are like,
this isn't worth it.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It's a great question, I think. I think bringing the
fact that.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
If the Olympics wasn't last summer, if the Olympics wasn't
so recent, I would say and even at this point,
it will be one year later, so maybe I won't
feel that recent at the time, but I do feel
like that has had such an energy to it the
Olympics that I'm hoping that carries over since you have
that same core US group, And I also think it's
good to have specifically Yiannis against.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Playing against that team.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
It's not like Team USA versus France, Tuosa versus World
team that has Giannis that is the most try hard
player in the NBA, try art star, at least in
the NBA, and so I'm hoping he and Wemby, who
seems to be taking things like personally personally, but like
he's he seems to be taking it a little. Seriously,
I'm hoping that those two can set a little bit
(35:49):
of a tone for the World team because you get
those two in transition, I mean, they're I mean, that's
a good of an All Star pairing as you could
possibly come up with, honestly.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
And if those dudes just run and Luca and Jokic
just throw kick ahead passes, that might go a long way.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
To tell me, Luca throwing three quarter lobs to Wemby
and Giannis a game like, come on.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
But we all agree that, like, if those dudes really
knuckle down, that they're just gonna beat the USA, right,
Like we we agree on that.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
What's I don't know the case.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
The case is the the old Man Avengers just won
the Gold and they and when Steph is rolling, you
know who's stopping Steph in an All Star format. There's
the other another wrinkle to this that I just thought of,
by the way, is there is a chance that Jannis
and Wemby are on the same team next year, and
if they are both starting the All Star Game next
to each other, going against the World team, then you're
(36:41):
gonna get I think that would even ramp up the
intensity a little bit more from from their perspective.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
But if the world's also gonna play harder to your point,
I think that's where it gets pretty tough. I think
we're talking about Steph will be well, Steffie thirty eight, yet.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I think he.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Will be Lebron will literally be forty one. Ad Ad
will be thirty two or thirty three, I think at
that point, and KD I think will be thirty eight
if I remember correctly. It's pretty a group. It's an
old it's an old group. You obviously start to dip
into the benches and it gets tricky too. But you
(37:20):
mentioned this to me in the text. But like I do,
there are some realities to like, how could you even
logistically pull this off in terms of putting.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
In the formats strange.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
The format's a little strange because we talk about the
the European and the Overseas, not just europe. Overseas stars
winning all the MVPs recently and feels like they're taking
over the league as some of the times the conversation.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
But it's very top heavy.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
It's very top heavy, and so I'm wondering past guys seven,
eight or nine. Like I saw some graphics people are
making up putting Bogdanovitch out there and like that's fine,
good for Bogdanovic, But right, are we gonna give that
guy an All Star?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Not?
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Are we getting fifteen guys from each team? Are we
just oping that we get a magic eight and eight?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Like?
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Logistically and because of the the not in the moment importance,
but the historical importance of All Star appearances and in
terms of resume building and that kind of stuff, you
can't just be gifting people all star games.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
To your point, you'd have to literally structure it in
a way to where you gave all Star selections but
didn't let dudes play like You'd have to have a team.
You'd have to have a Team USA roster that is
like seventeen players long right, and then have like to
your you'd have to have like Bogdanovich come in and
basically be a filler. I mean, when we start to
go down the list, it's like we get to a
(38:37):
lot of Americans before we get to other foreign players
like Tyres Maxi, and I'm just going down the points
per game list. Tyre's Maxi, Kate Cunningham, Jalen Brunson, Pala Boncaro,
Devin Booker, as we established, would probably have to come
off the bench, LaMelo Ball, Damian Lillard, Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Irvings,
Zion Williamson, Steph Curry, Karl Anthony Towns, Lebron, James Trey Young.
(38:59):
Franz is the first foreign name to show up on
that list.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, like like you'll get Jamal Murray will finally get
his All Star appearance.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
That's cool, I guess good for Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray
up in there. I don't know, like the after the
top five of the world.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
It is a very strong top five and they it's
but it's very top.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It after Franz, cam Thomas, American, Donovan Mitchell, American, Tyler
Harrow American, Joe El Embiid Adopted American, Darreon Fox American,
Zach Lavine, American, John Moran, American, James Harden American, Brandon
Ingram American, Demart rose An American, Jalen Brown, American, Jaron Jackson, American,
Norman Powell American. Like I'm Jamal Murray is the next guy.
Jamal Murray is the next guy. At he's thirty ninth,
(39:41):
and so this kind of goes to Kd's because Kadi
was ranting about this a lot on social media, this
idea that he like, he didn't he think some of
the talk with the world catching up is overblown, and
there's a case for both sides.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Like I could argue both.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Like if I was arguing that the world's ahead, I
could be like, we have you know, the world has
three of the top three players in the world right now,
you know four of the top four, Like it's probably
y'll get Shae, Giannis and Luca are your top are
your top four in all likelihood?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Right?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
But if I was arguing Kadi's point of view, I'd
be like, it's just random because after you get past
those top four guys, it's dominated by American players at
that point. And obviously points per game isn't the perfect
UH indicator there because there are guys like Sabonis who
you're you're probably not putting, you know, all the way
down in forty or something like that. But like there
are other like do everything types of guys that are
(40:30):
going to be higher on that list. But there is
a reality to like, once you get off of that
top tier of superstars, it's a pretty steep drop off
from there, So, like I I feel like Adam Silver
he did. He doesn't seem to have much of a
plan for how this is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, he doesn't seem that much of a planner.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I admire the intention and the intention of trying to
get guys to compete. My thing is like, if you're
not going to give them something to compete for, meaning
like if you're not gonna throw a bunch of money
on the table, then really your only chance is the
character of the players, Like you need more giannis as,
more wembys, more guys that come in are like I'm
playing hard tonight, and if you get enough of those guys,
it'll work.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
It's just like any pickup run.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
If you go play pick up and you get seven
or eight pretty high level players to play super hot hard,
like you can mix in some riff raff and it's
gonna work. But like once you dip below the like
mandatory minimum of like understanding of high level basketball, like
it's gonna fall off of a cliff. And like similarly,
(41:28):
with effort and energy and competitiveness, like if.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
You get like.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Like five or six dudes on the floor who are
like really going for it, you'll have the other three
or four they're gonna or four or five, they're gonna
look at each other and they're gonna be like, we're
gonna be embarrassed and look stupid if we don't also
start playing hard. And so it's on the players. We
need competitors. We talked about competitiveness at the top. You
need competitors to come in and actually uh raise that level.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, last thing before we go.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
I do think that there is a chance that it
works if it have and I think if this actually
does happen.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
They really need just a stroke of.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Good luck like they got with the first year of
the ELA ending it was the first.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Year after covid R.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
In the first year, yeah, and it was unbelievable in
the fourth quarter of that game, and the fact that
in the next couple of years it wasn't because it
wasn't even close in the fourth quarter getting to the
fourth quurse, right, And so if by whatever stroke of luck,
you get a close game heading into whatever the fourth
quarter of this new format will be, then you have it.
I think if it's get down to eight minutes left
(42:30):
or a target score, these guys will turn on the
country pride thing from the Olympics a little bit, but
if it's not closed at that point, then it's gonna
flop heavy.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So in all, like, if there's one thing I agree
with the Adam Silver approach over the last few years,
he's gotten really janky with everything. But it doesn't make
sense to play forty eight minutes if the guys aren't
gonna play.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Hard, like for sure. But my thing is like, if
this doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
And it's more or less the same dynamic that we've
seen in other years, I think you just go back
to forty eight minutes, you go back to East West,
you go back to your normal rosters, and you just
leave it up to the players to compete. And you know,
I saw we saw Kevin Duran quote tweet the thing
with Steven A. Smith when he was like saying like
it's going to be like basically like saying it's going
to be something that these players will be remembered for.
(43:16):
Is like the players who killed the All Star Game.
Katy's like, this is dramatic. I agree with Katie in
that regard. Like, you know what I think about when
I think about the NBA, I think about what we
saw tonight. I think about what we've seen in this
playoff run. I think about the dozens and dozens and
dozens of incredible regular season moments that we get every year,
crazy games, crazy star performance as game winners, showdowns between rivalries,
(43:37):
like that's the stuff that I think about. Like, even
when the All Star Game was better, it was pretty
far down the list of things that I cared about.
And so like the idea that like this is the
legacy of this generation, I think, I think is foolishness.
I think Adam silver owes it to the league to
try a few more ways. But if he backed out
and he was just like, look, the All Star Game
(43:58):
is the All Star Game, I'm leaving it as I
would respect that too. All Right, guys, it's all we
have for YouTube tonight. We are headed over to playback.
The first thing we do when we get over there
is we're rewatching that fourth quarter. So we're gonna get
over there, We're gonna watch some film, we'll take some callers,
we'll take some questions again at playback dot tv slash
Hoops tonight for the YouTube audience. I will be back
(44:19):
tomorrow morning with a film breakdown. I'm also going to
be doing something else on Saturday, but keep an eye
on my Twitter feed for that. But tomorrow morning a
film breakdown, and then obviously we will be back live
after game two on Sunday. I will see you guys then.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (44:35):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
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(02:00):
All right, welcome to HOOPSNI. You're at the volume havy Thursday. Everybody,
hope Aul, if you guys are having to get a
great week.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
As I said after Game one of the Eastern Conference Finals, there's.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Some sort of weird voodoo magic going on that makes
it so that you have to beat the Indiana Pacers
for like five times in a seven game series, and
once again in classic fashion, down against the Ropes several
different times down the stretch, several different runs from the
(02:29):
Thunder to build more additional margin, and then impossible shot
after impossible shot from the Pacers down the stretch. Aaron
Nismith coming flying out of that left corner, rising and
firing like it's Game one against the Knicks all over again.
Andrew Nemhard with the seventeen dribble step back against Shay Gilgas,
(02:52):
Alexander with a hand right in his face to hit
the three. And then Tyrese Halliburden with clock winding down
against Kison Walla is a quick little stop and pop
jumper a little bit outside of the right elbow, and
the Pacers are up one zero in the NBA Finals
and very much in position to give themselves a chance
(03:12):
to win this series. Just absolutely unbelievable stuff. All my notes,
Crumple them up, throw them in the trash. As far
as the narrative of this game goes, We're going to
get into as much of the basketball as we can
and talk about the different dynamics at play in the
series and try to interpret as much of this as
we can into what's repeatable and what is not. But
(03:32):
I am in complete shock, as I can imagine just
about anybody outside of the Pacers fans who have been
believing in this team all season long. I'm in shock,
and I barely know where to start with this thing.
I will say before we get started, I cannot say
enough how much this Pacers team has just injected an
(03:53):
enormous amount of entertainment into this NBA Playoffs. The NBA
Playoffs is just a lot of blowouts over the years
in recent years, kind of lacking some of that high
level entertainment in the later rounds. And this Pacers team
and their unwillingness to give up, and the way that
they play and the way that they put themselves in
(04:13):
position two steel games, with their incredible attention to detail
and sharpness and relentless motor and effort, have just literally
injected the enthusiasm and honestly just what I think is
a very beautiful brand of basketball for all of us
to watch and enjoy, for young basketball players to learn
(04:35):
from to improve their own games, for basketball teams and
basketball coaches to improve.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
The way they play.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I can't say enough about what the Pacers have done
in this playoff run for my view of the game,
I think for everybody's learning of the game, and obviously
just making for a very entertaining basketball product. You guys
are the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the
Hoops to Night YouTube channels. You don't miss any more
of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at Underscore JCENLTC.
Don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about a podcast for
(05:02):
you wherever you get you podcast owner Hoops Tonight. It's
also super helpful if you leave a rating and a
review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our
social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make
sure you guys follow us there for additional content throughout
the season. We are not doing a mail bag at
the tail end of tonight's show because we're hitting an
all star topic surrounding the new move from Adam Silver
(05:23):
to try to pit Team USA versus the world. We're
gonna have that, but we will when we wrap up
here tonight be heading over to Playback that's Playback dot
tv slash Hoops Tonight. We will be doing a chat
mail bag there. We'll also be taking callers. We'll obviously
watch the film from that insane fourth quarter and go
(05:43):
over how the Pacers stole this game. I'm looking forward
to watching through that with you guys. So when we
wrap up here on YouTube, remember to follow us over
to playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight. All right, let's
talk some basketball. So this game really was a story
of two in a lot of ways. I talked about
how in the series preview that there is like an
(06:07):
opening test with Oklahoma City these fail points, if you
guys remember, I talked about these potential failure points for
Indiana in the series where if they just struggled to
get the ball to where it needed to be, that
they were dead on arrival. And those we talked about specifics.
We talked about ball pressure in the back court. We
(06:27):
talked about off ball denials. We talked about high post
entries and low post entries. We talked about double teams
and posts and ISOs and drives. We talked about like
when they get the ball into the middle of the floor,
whether it's through a drive or a roll or a post,
the ability for them to pass out of the traffic
in those spots on the floor. And they failed that test.
(06:50):
Miserably in the first half, Like as bad as you
will ever see, especially relative to the way that this
Indiana Pacers team typically takes care of the basketball. Turnovers
bringing the ball up the floor, dudes getting poked away
from behind as they're not paying attention to what's happening
behind them, turnovers on post entries, turnovers on pocket passes
(07:14):
as they're missing guys tagging from the weak side.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Everything.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
The big one that they were dealing with in that
first half was posting ISOs when guys turned their back,
just like as soon as someone turned their back, the
dude is just swooping in from behind and swiping the
ball away in.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
The half court.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Nineteen turnovers in the first half a truly remarkable performance
defensively from the Thunder. Honestly, I thought it was a
showcase of everything that makes them so great. Again, Like,
for those of you haven't very Thunder fans, maybe if
you haven't watched as much Pacers, Like, that's a team
that doesn't turn the ball over a lot. That's a
team that typically handles that sort of aggression and pressure
(07:49):
extremely well, and they didn't in that first half. And
it's because of the job that lou Dort can do
on Tyrese Haliburton to make him uncomfortable. It's because of
the job that those guys do, swarming and swiping at
the basketball, lou Dort, his activity on the back line.
Even in this game, Caruso on the back line, everyone
flying around and making plays, even Shay getting in on
(08:12):
the turnover forcing. Now, to Indiana's credit, their transition defense
in that catastrophe in the first half kept them in
the game. We've talked so much over the course of
the last few weeks about low hanging fruit. These are
things that are available in every single basketball game to
every single team. Now, you need a certain amount of
(08:36):
elite shot making to make it to your ultimate goal
in the NBA. Like, that's the fourth time in this
playoff run that Tyres Haliburton has hit a tough shot
in a one on one situation to either win a
game or to put his team in position to win
a game in the final of seconds of the as
the clock is expiring. Obviously, the Aaron Nesmith shot, the
(08:58):
Andrew Nemhard shot, there were a lot of really tough
shots that were mixed in there, and obviously you're not
just gonna win a game because you're a sharp, disciplined
basketball team, you've got to have a certain amount of
individual greatness to carry you over the top, especially when
you're staring down shake Gil just Alexander on the other end, who,
outside of his last couple possessions, I thought, had a
(09:18):
really good game. And at a certain point, in order
to put yourself in position to weather that storm, to
live through some turnovers, to live through some sloppiness, you
got to be super sharp in other areas of the game.
And they consistently got back, protected the rim and stopped
(09:39):
the ball, got contests on three point shooters, and so
despite allowing or despite turning the ball over nineteen times
in the first half, they allowed just nine points off
of those turnovers. And then, as we say, when you're
going to apply that type of pressure, if you're going
(10:00):
to deny, if you're going to double, if you're going
to tag rollers and offer a ton of nail help
and double team post ups and do all of that stuff,
the flip side is guys are open, and if you
can get the ball through the defense to those guys
they're still open. They are a good closeout team. They're
(10:23):
gonna make it more difficult than it appears on the
surface compared to some other opponents out there. But you
can't act. They don't actually have six players on the court.
They just feel like that sometimes if you can take
care of the basketball and you can pass it through
their defense, you can get open shots against Oklahoma City's
base scheme. And in the second half just six turnovers total,
(10:49):
three in the third quarter, three in the fourth quarter,
and just two points off of turnovers as a result.
Mixed in obviously with the tough shot making that, we
saw a lot of pretty solid either like wide open
catch and shoot threes for guys like Obie Toppin or
you know, moderately contested catch and shoot threes that are
good looks for guys like Aaron Nesmith, and a lot
(11:14):
of pretty high quality attempts right around the rim.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And they scored.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Sixty six points in the second half and all night long,
their defense held up pretty well.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Wasn't perfect.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
They ran a lot of traditional coverages, and at various
points against the traditional coverages, they struggled. Shake gel just Alexander,
to his credit, a lot of stars in NBA history
struggle in the NBA Finals. They get a little passive
or they at tentative or they you know, kind of
get just they just look kind of shook from the moment.
I mean, you saw it happen to several paces. You
(11:48):
saw it to happen to damn near the entire Pacers
bench to start this game. Although shout out to Obi
Top and he had about as nightmare start to this
game as you could possibly have, fumbling the ball and
throwing it around all over the place. But he hit
a couple threes and he loosened up and he was
awesome from that point forward and hit so many big
shots for the Pacers in this game.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
But once.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
At the start of the game, Shake Gildess Alexander came
out and he was like, screw being passive, screw easing
my way into this game. I'm shooting the basketball. And
he had eleven shot attempts in the first quarter. I
think he had like nineteen or twenty in the first half.
And he essentially accelerated the process with which he became comfortable,
(12:31):
which actually thought was smart, especially as a scoring guard.
Like if you're a scoring guard, and again, the formula
for this team is elite defense and shay shot making
on a lot of nights, especially when things bogged down
the way they did, and he just got himself into
a pretty good rhythm. I thought he passed out of
an ISO to JB late that he probably didn't need to.
(12:51):
It kind of looked like he was just hesitant to
go ISO again and then overcooked his last little pull
up jump shot long off the back end of the rim.
But overall through the game, I mean like tough shot making.
Give Shaye get a decent look, and you know you
have Andrew Nemhard hit a crazy seventeen dribble step back
three right in his face, Like there's a certain amount
(13:12):
of variance that goes into that sort of thing. And
I thought Shaye played a pretty damn good game under
the circumstances with the game, With the way that the
game went, the Pacers came out in a high drop
coverage with Turner. I've talked about this before, the high
drop coverage with Indiana with respect that Shae has nothing
to do with taking away the pull up jump shot
off off of the three point line if he comes
(13:35):
off the screen clean. It's all about trying to stop
Shaye from turning the corner with the runway and shake
cooked that coverage right off the bat and was getting
right around Turner and drawn fowls and getting all the
way to the rim. That's why we saw so many
Shaye layups in the first part of the game. Then
the Pacers adjusted and they went from that high drop
to more of a low drop where Turner was meeting
(13:56):
him far back, and that was when Shaye really started
to get going with his mid range shot making.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And that was kind of how all of that.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Initial work early in the game that he did to
get his feel and to get his aggression really started
to pay off. And like out, like Shay was awesome
in this game, lou Dort was awesome in this game.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Lou Dirt. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
He shot so poorly overall in this postseason run, but
against the Pacers in the regular season he killed them.
And he went right back to killing them tonight. Hit
five threes and a lot of those like kind of
semi tough contested threes that you need to knock down
in the postseason. But outside of Shaye and lou Dort,
they generally did a pretty good job. I think there
(14:37):
are some things they need to clean up. We saw
a lot of we saw a lot of the attacking
of Tyrese Haliburton and Obi Toppin and a little bit
of Siakam too and in guard guard screens out above
the break and Shae had some success like quickly attacking
those guys when they were hedging and splitting action and
(14:58):
drawing fouls, and he did a lot of damage up there.
But for the most part in the aggregate, they prevented
the explosive Oklahoma City quarter. How did they prevent the
explosive Oklahoma City corner quarter by keeping them out of
transition again, Guys, this is a team that in this
postseason run is averaging like twenty three to twenty something
(15:20):
crazy in points off of turnovers and pulling it up
real quick right now. They are carrying their offense for
extended stretches in this postseason literally by just forcing turnovers
and getting out in transition. Twenty three point eight is
their postseason average in points off of turnovers held them
to just eleven tonight. Oklahoma City's offense is capable of
(15:44):
being very good, but they don't have the depth of
elite shot making off the ball and just overall offensive
feel to be a super explosive slow down offense. If
you can keep them out of transition by preventing those
easy transition points by getting back, stopping the ball getting
(16:06):
to the rim, forcing them to knock down jump shots,
you can keep them from having the explosive quarter. And
that's what Indiana did. Indiana had a thirty five point quarter.
Oklahoma City didn't have a thirty point quarter in this game.
Let's get to some of the other little adjustments that
I saw. Oklahoma City they give up a lot of
(16:28):
open threes with their swarming defense, and it is a
trade off. Like again, in the first half, they forced
a bunch of turnovers and it generally paid off. Right
didn't get out and transition as much as they could have,
but overall they had a good half. In the second half,
Indiana was able to successfully get the ball out and
they knocked down shots. They could try to loosen that
(16:49):
up a little bit, essentially, just being a little bit
more picky. I liked when they dove at the basketball,
when some of the lesser ball handlers turned their head.
If Siakam turns his head away from you go for it.
Pobie Topping turns his head away from you, go for it.
If Miles turner turns his head away from you, go
for it. But if he's looking at you, or if
(17:11):
it's anybody that can handle the ball pretty well, be
a little bit more hesitant to help because this is
a Pacers team that will get the ball out. Almost
half of their shot attempts tonight were pretty clean. There
were three point shots and they got a lot of
pretty clean looks as part of that process. Oklahoma City also,
I thought, did a decent amount of damage on the
offensive glass in the first half. Indiana flipped that dynamic
(17:35):
of the second half. You got started to see some
of their size on the interior do some more damage.
That's an area where Oklahoma City can do better. We
saw them do better in the first half of this
particular game. Just looking through my notes really quick here,
but bear with me. It was an absolute disaster of
a planning night for the show with me putting together
the show based on Oklahoma City controlling the I think
(17:58):
it was their first lead on the tyrese Alivert shot
that he made. It just an absolutely unbelievable game. Overall,
Indiana did have success attacking smalls. You saw some of
the specific differences, like it when they're doing that three
quarter front. We saw Rick Carlisle talking about some of
(18:19):
those like tight window bounce passes aren't there. It's almost
better for them to push the post a little bit
further out and then look to attack with an aggressive
move like spinning off of that guy or something along
those lines. We also did see a good amount of
that damage being done on the offensive glass. It's an
alternative you had to switch instead of trying to cram
(18:40):
in some crazy entry pass. Put something up from the perimeter,
a decent you know, swing the ball around, run a
quick ghot screen, do something to get you a decent
perimeter jump shot look, and if you shoot it high
and soft enough, you're gonna give your big guy a
pretty good chance to win that battle on the flip side.
I think that's something that we saw in that second half.
Unbelievable stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Again.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think Indiana could. I think Indiana could lighten up
a little bit on some of their traditional coverages. We
saw a lot of them giving up pretty easy stuff
like the ball screen coverages with Turner weren't working against Shaye,
and either the high drop or the low dropped Thomas
Bryant gave up an easy layup to Isaiah Hartenstein on
a play where he was opening up his stance for
Siakam to cut through because it should have been a switch.
(19:25):
It wasn't, so then Hardenstein which just went right to
the basket for a layup. We saw Mark Dagnaud after
a timeout after Obi Toping hit a three to cut
the lead to eight. They just had Shay set a
backscreen for kese On Wallace on tyrese. Haliburton Pacers didn't
want to switch it them hard was hugged up to
Shae easy layup for kease On Wallace cutting along that backside.
(19:47):
Even in that second half down the stretch, we saw
them get a lot of good looks out of those hedges, right.
I thought they looked a little bit better when they
were just super aggressive on those switches, those hedges like
actually like almost like a just attacking him and forcing
him to get rid of the basketball. At least in
those late game situations where they're packing the pain, they
were able to force some catch and shoot jumpers from
(20:08):
some of their lesser shooters down the stretch by doing that,
I just think they need to get away from passive
traditional coverages. These big guys can't contain the ball well enough.
Thomas Bryant can't, Miles Turner can't. They're giving up a
little bit too much. Drible penetration there. I've liked it
against Jalen Williams. We saw Miles Turner against Jalen Williams
and the drop coverage be able to get some stops
(20:29):
in at the rim and in the short range. But
specifically with Shay, I would either be super aggressive or
I would just switch and force him to ISO and
then be aggressive in your help pinching down off of
him because again, in those traditional coverages that were given
up too many of those openings.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
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(21:07):
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Speaker 2 (21:18):
Man I know that was all over the place, but
it was that kind of game. I'm gonna have Jackson Kamania.
We're gonna talk a little bit more about the game,
and then we will get into some of that All
Star topic before we head over to playback.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Let's do it.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Let's do it first. I think I'm gonna throw at you.
And we got a super chat question from Cole. Are
people undervaluing Rick Carlyle's coaching experience compared to Mark Dagnault's.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
So I didn't. This is tricky.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I think the credit that goes to Carlile has more
to do with foundational stuff, Like I didn't think it was.
I didn't think Rick Carlisle went out there and just
coached this like super magnificent Exit is a O's game
that diced up the thunder. I didn't think that was
what happened here. I think that I think that the
credit goes to Rick Carlile in the work that he's done.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Like, guys, the.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Team's basketball character flows from the top down. It's what
kind of guys? What kind of dudes is your front
office going after? Is he just strictly going after talent
or is he going after guys that fit the culture
of what you're trying to build.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Obviously, there's a certain skill set you need as well,
but there's a certain like are you are you getting
competitive ass kickers that like to play hard and that
want to be the best basketball player that they could
possibly be, down to the head coach, down to the
star of your team, down to the co star of
your team, down to the types of dudes that you
have in that locker room. But Rick Carlile, from day
one of this season and dating back multiple years, has
(22:53):
just instilled in these guys this level of intensity, this
level of relentlessness, attention to detail.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
You know how crazy it is.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Off of nineteen turnovers only give up nine points in
transition to the Oklahoma City Thunder. You know how sharp
you have to be, You know how dedicated you have
to be. Watching that juxtaposed with what we saw from
the Knicks in Game six of the Eastern Conference Finals,
it was absolutely amazing. But like I didn't think again,
as far as Dagnall goes like, we did see a
(23:24):
little bit of that, like bogging down ISO offense at
the top of the key, but I didn't think they
got bad looks. They got some clean catch and shoot looks. Again,
I thought Shay shouldn't have passed the ball to jadaub
on the second to last ISO. You're asking a twenty
three year old to bail you out there. You're the dude,
go go, go, get a bucket and then he overcooked
a jumper that if he makes it, they win, right, So, like,
I don't want to overreact. I want to just give
(23:46):
credit to Carlisle for the basketball character that he's instilled
in this team.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Yeah, I agree, And normally I don't care about stuff
like Shamstronia reporting before the game.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Here's how here's my take on it.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
But he did have a stand up about team building
and about how this might be a sign for teams
with considering both of the teams going after some of
these ultra competitive, multiple college year guys as opposed to
just hunting for a star every time in the draft,
and that type of thing really feels relevant when you're
seeing guys like Andrew dem Hard be so successful in
(24:19):
the playoffs. You're seeing guys like Lou Dort who not
even he wasn't even drafted, but like guys who are
just have this highly super high motor super highly competitive
are being are a lot more valuable for teams like this,
especially for teams with championship aspirations, than taking your dart
throw at the hopeful star pick.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You know, we talk about this all the time, like
playing winning basketball sucks. It's hard, man Like, it's hard
in the normal context of like you guys going to
play pickup, like when we go play pickup. Obviously, if
you want to win more pickup games, you gotta do
all the shit that's hard, right. You gotta run back
and transition defense, you gotta palk through screens, you gotta
(24:58):
put your body on the line for rebound, you got
to run the floor on offense, got to do all
those sorts of things. Now add the additional layer of
advanced NBA schematics and all the different game plan stuff
you got to remember, and all the specific stuff within
different coverages that they go to utilize, and it's just
extremely difficult. It's extremely difficult. And so you need a
certain type of personality, a certain type of guy in
(25:20):
that locker room that's willing to put in the work,
and it's a little bit harder to find than you think. Again,
there's I think that there is a competitive nature trait
that is vastly underrated in the NBA. And it's just like,
how much do your dudes hate to lose? Because if
they really hate to lose, then they will listen to
their coach when their coach is presenting to them a
(25:42):
plan with which to avoid that loss. And I just think, man,
I know you heard me at the top of the show.
I just can't say enough about this Pacers team and
how special they are just to the game of basketball
for the example that they represent.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Yeah, they I can't remember a team ever playing like
this ever, Like it's it's amazing how relentless they are
on both ends. They're like the seven second Sons offensively,
but they're kind of dynamic defensively at this point. They
like for when Pascal got healthy. At that point in
the regular season, they had the second best record in
the NBA, and their defense has been quite good since then.
(26:22):
It's hard to I can't think of teams that were
this sort of dynamic and speed oriented offensively that were
able to translate that to the defensive end.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Also, their relentlessness in rotation, like even like concession shots
like oh okay, see bang bang bang broke you down
got a wide open three, they're still throwing a close out.
It's just like a token close out. Like, let's not
let this dude get super comfortable. Let's make him realize
he's got to shoot it right now. Like there's just
it's so crazy, man. And then like, honestly too, I
(26:53):
want to hand it to Halliburton too. Like Haliburton was
having one of those games too, where he was getting
a couple of looks here and there. Occasionally you do
that classic thing where he drags out the ball screen
and then pump fakes and the dude just goes flying by.
But like he wasn't exactly getting super high quality looks,
but he just stayed invested and then made a couple
plays late when he needed to. It's this team, man,
(27:14):
and there's the tough shot making voodoo is legitimately crazy
because it's crazy. It's like they are at the end
of these games. Andrew Nemhard hit like legitimately a Kyrie
Irving dribble combination.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Well, he was dribbling in the air out of the
basketball three consecutive possessions. Yeah, and then he hits the
one of the most insane threes you could possibly hit
in that moment. Oh my god, he's missed three before
that rattles in just a laser that rattles in, and
Haliburton having the to your point, having the confidence in
the balls to take that last shot after not having
(27:50):
a particularly effective scoring game.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's one thing to have to.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Take that shot if you're a score first player, even
if you're having a bad game or if you're having
a great game. He is a pass first player who
was not having a good scoring and said, no problem,
give me the give me the fucking ball.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
He got like, and he shot that with conviction too,
Like he stopped and popped, and he put all his
legs into it, and he shot it high and he
shot it soft and it rattled in. Is unbelievable stuff.
Before we go over to the all star stuff, you
texted me about.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Halfway through the third quarter, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna read your exact text, okay,
And then what I want you to do is just
kind of explain if you still feel this way overall. Okay, Yes,
he said, I feel like the Pacers are really in
this series. Surprisingly, this dort shooting performance is giving me
Celtics Game one and twenty twenty two vibes dirt going
off and the Pacers can't stop turning the ball over
(28:42):
and there's still only down ten. I don't know, it
feels like they're in it to me.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So do you do you? Like you straight up think
the Pacers can win the series. I don't.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Well, I still really wasn't kind of wasn't expecting them
to win this game. I was saying that more of like, oh,
they're in the series, not even they're gonna win tonight.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I was like, Oh, they're more especially for game one.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I kind of thought Game one might be a blow
out the other way or like in okay, so he
might win by a lot. Yeah, And it looked like
that for a little while. It was teetering on the
edge of a potential blowout. And I don't know, I
think I am still discounting the devil magic of the
Pacers when I also texted you when Miles Turner missed
that wide open three and Halle missed a step back three,
(29:21):
and either of those threes I think would have tied
the game at that point or maybe cut it to
one possession with like three four minutes laught something like that,
and I was like, oh, that was our moment.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
That was it felt like their moment. It's like, dang,
they were making the comeback.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Had two very good looks to really get over that
sort of mental hurdle of tying the game or maybe
even taking the lead by one, and they missed them both,
and I was like, ah, there it is gone to
game two. Here am I the dumb one? I haven't
been been. I've also been discounting the Pacers this whole time.
It's unbelievable how they keep doing this. I do feel
like I mean, obviously they won Game one on the road.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
They're in the series.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Absolutely, I would expect, you know, a twenty point thunder
win game two.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
But how can we say that they have a chance
to win this sea I'm gonna put it like this simple.
I think it was Zach Low that said, like, h like,
anybody who's picking anything other than Oklahoma City in five
or six is expecting something really weird to happen. For
the record, I agree with that. So I'm not about here.
I'm not here saying Zach is wrong. Here's what I'm
(30:19):
thinking right this second, though, What do you mean something
something weird is gonna happen. This entire postseason for the
Pacers has been weird, Like everything about.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
It is weird.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like it's just what you got the weird game this
you just did it wed thing.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah exactly. It's like it's like here you go. It's
it just got weird. It just got weird. It just
got weird. Yeah, like I thought it was for me.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
It was the Turner three when Turner had that wide
open pick and pop three late that he missed and uh,
he had hit two in a row before that, but
like he earlier in the second half, but he missed
that pick and pop three and along off the back
of the rim, and they didn't get the offensive rebound,
and I was like, up there it goes and they
but they just kept going. They just they The never
stop thing is crazy. Highly underrated play in that sequence
(31:05):
was the Pascal Siakam offensive remount put.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Back off of unbelievable play.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Unbelievable play.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
They did a lot of damage on the offensive glass
along the baseline from their bigs down the stretch of
this game. I did think that was fascinating. Okay, see
really controlled things in that department early and then and
then the dynamic flip. Any other thoughts on the game
before we move over.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
I don't even know it's process. No, I mean, it's
just it's just unbelievable. I'm just so excited for this
series now. I was excited for the series before, but
now it feels like we're in for a real treat.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
I was.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
I was a little worried about the excitement level across
the board if there was an okay.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
See blowout, and now it feels like we're all locked in. Yeah,
the series.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I thought the game was immediately fun to watch, and
I wasn't worried about guys like us or the people
that watch this show particularly like enjoying enjoying watching the series,
but I was in I was concerned about whether or
not it could be competitive enough to be interesting to
the masses and the pacers once again. Like that, That's
what I meant off the top, Like the job they've done,
like straight up injecting casual joy and intensity and beauty
(32:08):
into this playoff.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Run is just crazy. Man.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
But the pace we're gonna head over to play back
in about ten minutes, I wanted to really quickly. Jackson
and I were going to have a quick little debate
about this team USA versus Team World. Adam Silver audible here.
So Adam Silver says that they're going to structure the
All Star Game as USA versus the World next year.
(32:33):
This has been the latest and a long line of
attempts for Adam Silver to try to make these guys compete.
It's literally all he's trying to do, get them, give
them a reason to compete, and they've been unsuccessful to
this point. I'm skeptical as to whether or not this
will work. I am intrigued by the matchup, though, so
(32:54):
obviously it gets tricky. There's some realities to how this
could even work. But I want to start by just
looking at the starting fives and just putting it together
from there and kind of working around so we can all.
I would argue that the world top five is really obvious,
(33:15):
and that is just Luka, Jokic, Chake Eu, just Alexander
Jannis and Wimby.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I agree wholehearted.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I don't think there's anybody else who has a case
to get into that group. Who is the USA five?
Speaker 4 (33:31):
I gotta assume they run back some version of the
Olympic five, which is Steph Booker Lebron Kadie and either
Bam or Anthony Davis, whoever is healthiest, I would assume,
But that's gotta be the first four, even like I
don't have no I do not care a single second
about how old Lebron James is, Like, you have to
(33:52):
run that group out right.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I The tricky thing there is I wonder if there's
some of those guys are gonna get bumped because of
just regular season performance, Like is Anthony Edward's gonna end
up right cramming his way into that list something like that.
At least they have some practice playing without Jason Tatum.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
And is maybe the answer ever Devin Booker.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Anyways, But yeah, I this is where it gets tricky.
The entire premise doesn't make a ton of sense because
in terms of debating these two teams competing, because the
entire idea is that these guys aren't competing. But like
there's an undeniable, like the Americans can run the floor
(34:35):
a little bit better. I would argue that it gets
a little tricky when they get stuck in the half court. Obviously,
Luka Nikola Jokic, shake yell, just Alexander that's the three
most surgical offensive players in the NBA at this point.
I will say this, though, I think splitting it up
and putting Steph Lebron and Katie on the same team,
(34:57):
do you think there's any chance that that brings the
competitive or do you think those old dudes are like,
this isn't worth it.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It's a great question, I think. I think bringing the
fact that.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
If the Olympics wasn't last summer, if the Olympics wasn't
so recent, I would say and even at this point,
it will be one year later, so maybe I won't
feel that recent at the time, but I do feel
like that has had such an energy to it the
Olympics that I'm hoping that carries over since you have
that same core US group, And I also think it's
good to have specifically Yiannis against.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Playing against that team.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
It's not like Team USA versus France, Tuosa versus World
team that has Giannis that is the most try hard
player in the NBA, try art star, at least in
the NBA, and so I'm hoping he and Wemby, who
seems to be taking things like personally personally, but like
he's he seems to be taking it a little. Seriously,
I'm hoping that those two can set a little bit
(35:49):
of a tone for the World team because you get
those two in transition, I mean, they're I mean, that's
a good of an All Star pairing as you could
possibly come up with, honestly.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
And if those dudes just run and Luca and Jokic
just throw kick ahead passes, that might go a long way.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
To tell me, Luca throwing three quarter lobs to Wemby
and Giannis a game like, come on.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
But we all agree that, like, if those dudes really
knuckle down, that they're just gonna beat the USA, right,
Like we we agree on that.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
What's I don't know the case.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
The case is the the old Man Avengers just won
the Gold and they and when Steph is rolling, you
know who's stopping Steph in an All Star format. There's
the other another wrinkle to this that I just thought of,
by the way, is there is a chance that Jannis
and Wemby are on the same team next year, and
if they are both starting the All Star Game next
to each other, going against the World team, then you're
(36:41):
gonna get I think that would even ramp up the
intensity a little bit more from from their perspective.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
But if the world's also gonna play harder to your point,
I think that's where it gets pretty tough. I think
we're talking about Steph will be well, Steffie thirty eight, yet.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I think he.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Will be Lebron will literally be forty one. Ad Ad
will be thirty two or thirty three, I think at
that point, and KD I think will be thirty eight
if I remember correctly. It's pretty a group. It's an
old it's an old group. You obviously start to dip
into the benches and it gets tricky too. But you
(37:20):
mentioned this to me in the text. But like I do,
there are some realities to like, how could you even
logistically pull this off in terms of putting.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
In the formats strange.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
The format's a little strange because we talk about the
the European and the Overseas, not just europe. Overseas stars
winning all the MVPs recently and feels like they're taking
over the league as some of the times the conversation.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
But it's very top heavy.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
It's very top heavy, and so I'm wondering past guys seven,
eight or nine. Like I saw some graphics people are
making up putting Bogdanovitch out there and like that's fine,
good for Bogdanovic, But right, are we gonna give that
guy an All Star?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Not?
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Are we getting fifteen guys from each team? Are we
just oping that we get a magic eight and eight?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Like?
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Logistically and because of the the not in the moment importance,
but the historical importance of All Star appearances and in
terms of resume building and that kind of stuff, you
can't just be gifting people all star games.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
To your point, you'd have to literally structure it in
a way to where you gave all Star selections but
didn't let dudes play like You'd have to have a team.
You'd have to have a Team USA roster that is
like seventeen players long right, and then have like to
your you'd have to have like Bogdanovich come in and
basically be a filler. I mean, when we start to
go down the list, it's like we get to a
(38:37):
lot of Americans before we get to other foreign players
like Tyres Maxi, and I'm just going down the points
per game list. Tyre's Maxi, Kate Cunningham, Jalen Brunson, Pala Boncaro,
Devin Booker, as we established, would probably have to come
off the bench, LaMelo Ball, Damian Lillard, Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Irvings,
Zion Williamson, Steph Curry, Karl Anthony Towns, Lebron, James Trey Young.
(38:59):
Franz is the first foreign name to show up on
that list.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, like like you'll get Jamal Murray will finally get
his All Star appearance.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
That's cool, I guess good for Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray
up in there. I don't know, like the after the
top five of the world.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
It is a very strong top five and they it's
but it's very top.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It after Franz, cam Thomas, American, Donovan Mitchell, American, Tyler
Harrow American, Joe El Embiid Adopted American, Darreon Fox American,
Zach Lavine, American, John Moran, American, James Harden American, Brandon
Ingram American, Demart rose An American, Jalen Brown, American, Jaron Jackson, American,
Norman Powell American. Like I'm Jamal Murray is the next guy.
Jamal Murray is the next guy. At he's thirty ninth,
(39:41):
and so this kind of goes to Kd's because Kadi
was ranting about this a lot on social media, this
idea that he like, he didn't he think some of
the talk with the world catching up is overblown, and
there's a case for both sides.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Like I could argue both.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Like if I was arguing that the world's ahead, I
could be like, we have you know, the world has
three of the top three players in the world right now,
you know four of the top four, Like it's probably
y'll get Shae, Giannis and Luca are your top are
your top four in all likelihood?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Right?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
But if I was arguing Kadi's point of view, I'd
be like, it's just random because after you get past
those top four guys, it's dominated by American players at
that point. And obviously points per game isn't the perfect
UH indicator there because there are guys like Sabonis who
you're you're probably not putting, you know, all the way
down in forty or something like that. But like there
are other like do everything types of guys that are
(40:30):
going to be higher on that list. But there is
a reality to like, once you get off of that
top tier of superstars, it's a pretty steep drop off
from there, So, like I I feel like Adam Silver
he did. He doesn't seem to have much of a
plan for how this is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, he doesn't seem that much of a planner.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I admire the intention and the intention of trying to
get guys to compete. My thing is like, if you're
not going to give them something to compete for, meaning
like if you're not gonna throw a bunch of money
on the table, then really your only chance is the
character of the players, Like you need more giannis as,
more wembys, more guys that come in are like I'm
playing hard tonight, and if you get enough of those guys,
it'll work.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
It's just like any pickup run.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
If you go play pick up and you get seven
or eight pretty high level players to play super hot hard,
like you can mix in some riff raff and it's
gonna work. But like once you dip below the like
mandatory minimum of like understanding of high level basketball, like
it's gonna fall off of a cliff. And like similarly,
(41:28):
with effort and energy and competitiveness, like if.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
You get like.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Like five or six dudes on the floor who are
like really going for it, you'll have the other three
or four they're gonna or four or five, they're gonna
look at each other and they're gonna be like, we're
gonna be embarrassed and look stupid if we don't also
start playing hard. And so it's on the players. We
need competitors. We talked about competitiveness at the top. You
need competitors to come in and actually uh raise that level.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, last thing before we go.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
I do think that there is a chance that it
works if it have and I think if this actually
does happen.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
They really need just a stroke of.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Good luck like they got with the first year of
the ELA ending it was the first.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Year after covid R.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
In the first year, yeah, and it was unbelievable in
the fourth quarter of that game, and the fact that
in the next couple of years it wasn't because it
wasn't even close in the fourth quarter getting to the
fourth quurse, right, And so if by whatever stroke of luck,
you get a close game heading into whatever the fourth
quarter of this new format will be, then you have it.
I think if it's get down to eight minutes left
(42:30):
or a target score, these guys will turn on the
country pride thing from the Olympics a little bit, but
if it's not closed at that point, then it's gonna
flop heavy.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So in all, like, if there's one thing I agree
with the Adam Silver approach over the last few years,
he's gotten really janky with everything. But it doesn't make
sense to play forty eight minutes if the guys aren't
gonna play.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Hard, like for sure. But my thing is like, if
this doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
And it's more or less the same dynamic that we've
seen in other years, I think you just go back
to forty eight minutes, you go back to East West,
you go back to your normal rosters, and you just
leave it up to the players to compete. And you know,
I saw we saw Kevin Duran quote tweet the thing
with Steven A. Smith when he was like saying like
it's going to be like basically like saying it's going
to be something that these players will be remembered for.
(43:16):
Is like the players who killed the All Star Game.
Katy's like, this is dramatic. I agree with Katie in
that regard. Like, you know what I think about when
I think about the NBA, I think about what we
saw tonight. I think about what we've seen in this
playoff run. I think about the dozens and dozens and
dozens of incredible regular season moments that we get every year,
crazy games, crazy star performance as game winners, showdowns between rivalries,
(43:37):
like that's the stuff that I think about. Like, even
when the All Star Game was better, it was pretty
far down the list of things that I cared about.
And so like the idea that like this is the
legacy of this generation, I think, I think is foolishness.
I think Adam silver owes it to the league to
try a few more ways. But if he backed out
and he was just like, look, the All Star Game
(43:58):
is the All Star Game, I'm leaving it as I
would respect that too. All Right, guys, it's all we
have for YouTube tonight. We are headed over to playback.
The first thing we do when we get over there
is we're rewatching that fourth quarter. So we're gonna get
over there, We're gonna watch some film, we'll take some callers,
we'll take some questions again at playback dot tv slash
Hoops tonight for the YouTube audience. I will be back
(44:19):
tomorrow morning with a film breakdown. I'm also going to
be doing something else on Saturday, but keep an eye
on my Twitter feed for that. But tomorrow morning a
film breakdown, and then obviously we will be back live
after game two on Sunday. I will see you guys then.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (44:35):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
The volume
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