June 18, 2020 • 21 mins
A breast cancer surgeon is back in the O.R., operating on patients who had to put off major procedures during lockdown.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is the Way we live now.
Today is day one d since most of us have
had a routine checkup of any kind, and day forty
eight of this podcast, I've been thinking about all of
our health beyond the anxiety of COVID. I mean, have
any of us had a checkup seeing the dentist, had
a colonoscopy or a mammogram? And what about those of
(00:29):
us who were already contending with health issues or facing surgery.
My guest today is Dr Niam Wilson, Director of Breast Surgery,
Quality and Research at the Hartford Healthcare Cancer Institute na MA.
Thank you so much for talking with me about the
(00:51):
way we live now. Absolutely, it is my pleasure to
join you. Describe for me where you are right at
this very moment as we're speaking, as we're having this conversation.
Just give me a sense of what you're looking at
where you're sitting. So I'm actually upstairs, um in my closet,
which is thankfully is a It's a nice sized closet,
(01:13):
but I'm roaming around up here because I have a
great WiFi signal, and also my children can't get up
here because there are several doors blocking us, UM, and
if I had those doors unlocked, I can guarantee that
one of them, if not all three, would at some
point come barging in here and want to take some
(01:35):
of my shoes, or use the bathroom, or in some
way just kind of be around me. So I've I've
locked a couple of doors, and my husband is helping
babysit for for this short period of time. But I'm
looking out my backyard window, UM and looking at all
the various things that we've set up during this quarantine
period UM for them to play with because they haven't
(01:58):
really gotten to see their friends and everything, and just
actually feeling very grateful, UM for the nice weather we've
been having and the fact that we have a nice
backyard and everything for for them. By the way, you
are not the only guest who I've spoken to from
a closet um and in a closet um, although I
(02:19):
had several guests who have been in cars, like in
cars outside their house so that they could Yes, I've
done that. I've taken conference calls out there. So this
is the way we live now. So absolutely, when did
you first realize the enormity of COVID nineteen. When did
it really hit home for you as a physician. Your
(02:40):
husband is a physician as well, so I'm wondering in
your household sort of when it became clear that this
was coming and it was going to be huge. I
think my husband and I kind of caught on pretty early. UM,
And I think there's two reasons for that. One is that, UM,
a very close friend of mine from residency for some
(03:03):
general surgery trained and my very very close friend from
residency and I still keep in close contact. And that
person is Robert Redfield's son, also by the same name,
Robert Redfield. Actually he's the third So he and I
would communicate, um, you know, every so often. And as
(03:24):
soon as I kind of heard some of these stories
that we're coming out about um wuhan and um, you know,
these other areas getting affected, I started you know, texting
him and calling him and we were communicating about it,
and he definitely let me know that this was you know,
a really really big, really big problem, maybe bigger than
(03:45):
what um, we were being kind of led to believe.
So that was kind of my little inside line because UM,
you know, I was kind of hearing it certainly second hand,
but or even third hand potentially, But but I felt
like I was getting sort of some very very good
information from that. The second reason is because my husband
(04:07):
and I do read a lot of scientific journals and
some of the articles that were being published about what
was going on in Uhan. It was kind of easy
to see how this could really really explode if you
understand some of the basic principles about infectious diseases and
especially viruses UM and so we you know, I remember
(04:31):
when this is kind of all first was getting going
maybe mid February, late February, early March, UM, really trying
to think ahead about how this is going to change
our our lives, our work, and trying to prepare for it.
But of course, what you kind of learn along the
way is that there's really no way to actually prepare
(04:51):
for it. I mean, you can think about it all
you want. You can um come up with plans, you
can come up with ideas, but until you're living it,
until you're living quarantine and you're dealing with you know,
all the issues uh with our patients in the hospitals
and seeing what actually happens, I'm not sure you can
(05:11):
really totally prepare for all of those things, but it's
good to think through them if you can. So we
tried as best as we could, um to do that,
which yeah, I think it was a round the end
of February early March when we were like, oh, this
is going to be a really really big problem, and
of course you know it is and it was and
it is. Yeah. I imagine it must have been frustrating
(05:32):
to kind of know or really haven't inside sense of
the enormity of it to some degree, and to see
how slow we were to really take it seriously. By we,
I mean as a country. Yeah. And it's hard to know,
of course what you know really happened. Um. During the
(05:53):
outbreak in China, we weren't given totally accurate information for
better or for worse, whether that was intial or not. Um.
You know, I don't I don't want to comment about
that kind of stuff. There's a ton of conspiracy theories
about that, but we don't have to go there. Um.
And but you know, it's but knowing just kind of
how quickly this could get out of control, um, and
(06:15):
the fact that we weren't really responding to that possibility
was frightening. UM. And so I think that we were
definitely late to do to implement some of the things
we needed to implement, but we did manage to significantly
slow the curve. I mean, I will say at least
at least in Connecticut, none of our hospitals were ever
(06:37):
so overwhelmed to the point where we did not have
what we needed. We were running low on some supplies,
and we certainly expanded our capabilities in certain areas with
entire floors being made COVID floors, the you know, entire
I see us being made COVID, I see us. But
(06:57):
you know, we never got to the point like Italy,
so I'm thankful for that. So you know, the maneuvers
that were put into place did absolutely slow things down.
So you know when you say the e R was
turned into entirely COVID, and you know, floors were converted
into COVID, which is true at many many hospitals. Um,
(07:19):
this is really why I wanted to talk to you,
because you're a breast surgeon, and as we know, cancer
stops for no one. And I've been so haunted since
the beginning of the pandemic by the idea that there
were people who were waiting for surgery or you know,
(07:40):
my own husband was sick last year and I thought,
my god, what have it been now and what would
have happened to him? And so I'm I'm wondering what
these months have been like for you in terms of
you know, and you're also the mother of young kids
and going to the hospital, seeing patients continuing to perform surgery.
What is it like? It was very challenging. Um. You know,
(08:05):
a lot of us were kind of making things up
as we went along, but obviously with tremendous thought and
experience and good ideas, but ultimately we were really making
things up. UM. So what I mean by that is,
for example, at a certain point, our operating rooms were
(08:26):
really no longer available UM or uh, you know, taking
patients to the operating room who weren't about to die
or have some terrible, you know thing going on if
if they had a diagnosis of cancer. A lot of
times for our breast cancer patients, UM, those patients can
often take a medication as some kind of treatment before
(08:50):
going to the operating room. So there were specific criteria
that we developed in conjunction with Memorials, Flimpentering and a
whole host other cancer programs that we're doing this to
to say that if somebody was coming in with a
new diagnosis of breast cancer, if they had the ability
to take medicines first and stay out of the operating room,
(09:13):
then that's what we did. And so there were women
who would come to my office in the midst of
this crisis, UM, first of all, to hear the news
that they had a breast cancer, which is devastating in
and of itself, and then to be told, I'm so sorry,
but we can't operate right now. It's not it's not possible, UM,
But you know, we're not going to let it go untreated.
(09:35):
We're going to treat you with medication first as sort
of a stop gap. And it's totally acceptable to do this,
it's recommended in certain situations, but you know that's not
it's not our usual pathway. And it was really really
tough for my patients to hear that, UM, and I
think that they just felt even more isolated and alone
(09:57):
and um and scared because they weren't going to at
least be able to get this thing out of their body.
And you know, that's that's just that's any what any
woman wants when they have breast cancer is just get
it out of me, and I couldn't do that. It
was a scary time for them. So finally when we
(10:18):
were able to you know, open back up a little
bit and slowly get people back, um, they were just
you know, so so grateful for that to be able
to finally, you know, go through the surgery, even though
nobody wants surgery. They were just almost you know, calling
everyday thing, is it is it safe? And I come back?
You know, when can I get on the schedule, and
(10:38):
and and that that kind of thing, because they just,
you know, they didn't want to go on living with that.
And so I think it was it was tremendously scary
for for my patients. And I you know, I have
a tremendous amount of empathy for anyone who has that
kind of a diagnosis, and then combine that with what
we're all going through right now, it was just it
(11:00):
was so hard. So you know, part of my practice
is almost as like a therapist. I would say, um
and uh, and I really know I bond with my patients.
I connect with them, and I think that especially for
women who are diagnosed in this time, they just need
a lot of extra support. So that's what you know,
we were able to do. How long has it been
now since you've been able to be back in the hour,
(11:23):
Let's see. I think we started doing the cases again
around say about them three or four weeks ago, something
like that, so there was definitely a backlog. Um. You know,
there are a number of surgeons in my group, and
we were all keeping track of how many patients who
were on the list who needed to be scheduled, and um,
(11:49):
we're kind of slowly working through. But it was you know,
it's we just want to get them on as soon
as possible, but you have to do it in a
safe way. So uh, there were some patients who almost
wanted to see what someone else's experience was first before
they came in, and then once you see that, it's
you know, what we're doing in the actual operating room
(12:10):
is UM, we're being very very cautious. There's a lot
of restrictions, not a lot of visitors allowed. Everyone has
to have a COVID test. I mean, the patients do
UM prior to having surgery. So there's a lot of
precautions that we're taking. UM and of course everyone is
wearing a mask, including all of the nurses, all of
the doctors, all of the you know, assistance and everyone. Um,
(12:33):
So it is safe, I think, to come in and
have these procedures done. But it's a different it's a
different ballgame right now. I'm curious if you have anything
to say about like what this brings out in people,
This crisis on top of crisis, um, the anxiety. There
are those who are you know, terribly anxious and want
(12:55):
to get it out and want to take action. And
then there are you know, all of those who are
sort of holding those people and those those stories and
that anxiety that the nurses, the doctors, the staff. Are
you seeing anything in people like any quality of oh,
does anything at all that feels new to you or
(13:17):
different to you or heightened during this time? I think
what I have seen in in my patients, which I
do often, I see this to some degree, but I
think you're right that it's sort of heightened right now.
Is just this sense of of strength to be honest
and resilience. You know, I tell my patients, you know, okay,
(13:38):
we can do your surgery, but here's the deal. You know,
you're going to have to have this very unpleasant test
five days beforehand, because I don't know if you've experienced it,
but it is not a fun test to have a
COVID test. That swab is very uncomfortable. But you're going
to have to have this test. You're not going to
be able to have a family member with you at all.
(13:59):
It's basically curb side drop off, and when the procedure
is done and you've woken up from anesthesia, we bring
it back out to get in the car. I mean,
you know, no, no one can be at your side. Um.
These are all very different things, and I uh, than
than what we're used to. You know, we're re used
to sort of the comforts of trying to have people
(14:19):
have as pleasant experience as possible when they're having surgery,
which is not pleasant, and we can't offer those things.
So what I've seen in my patients more even more
so than usual, is this sense of you know, Okay,
I get it, I know why you guys are doing this.
Let's get it done. I can do this, you know.
(14:41):
And and it's it's inspiring because I can't I can't
imagine being on the other side of the table. Um,
It's it's really hard what they're going through. And compounded
with you know, being told that they're going to be alone,
You're going to be wearing a mask. Everyone's wearing a mask.
You can't even see, you know, the sympathy on somebody
else's face. Um, it's it's definitely made tougher for them.
(15:06):
But you know, they show up, they get it done,
they're grateful, they go home. UM, and I think it's, um,
it's just a show of force for them. It's they're
they're incredible women who have done this during this time.
That's so good to hear and and and inspiring. I
think a lot of people listening are having this thought.
(15:28):
You know, I know I'm overdue for all kinds of
checkups and annual screenings. People aren't jumping to go see
the doctor for just regular routine reasons. What are you
seeing now and and and what are your thoughts and like,
what are you telling people about. We're not in a
(15:49):
normal time, and we don't know what that's going to
look like. And yet in some way or another, life
also still has to go on in some safe way. Right.
What's scary for me as a breast surgeon is that
I know that there are a number of breast cancers
every week. That if hours had been usual and screening
(16:11):
mammograms have been going on, I would have been seeing
those patients with screening mamograms and ultrasounds and everything shut
down for that period of time. All of those women.
It's not like their breast cancers didn't go away, they
just haven't been diagnosed yet. And so that is what
frightens me that there is this subgroup of women who
(16:33):
have yet to come back for their mammogram, and they
would have been diagnosed had they been able to get
their mammogram a couple of months ago, but it was
completely shut down because it wasn't really you know, safe
to come in. And so those are the women who
you know, I will end up seeing at some point
in the next month or two. That said, a couple
(16:54):
of months in the breast cancer world, in terms of
a diagnosis often does not change in overall prognosis very much.
I don't want people to freak out that a couple
of months has set them back, but I would absolutely
encourage women to get to their doctor's appointments for you know,
the regular checkups, because the doctor's offices often are kind
(17:17):
of the safer places to be um. I've had patience
who I've seen in the office in the past few weeks.
Everyone's wearing masks. We are wiping everything down in between patients,
and they've told me that they feel safer in my
office than they do at Target. And I think that
might be right, I would imagine. Yeah, so I think
it's safe to come out and do those things because
(17:39):
you can't forget about your health. Yeah, that's really important
for everybody to hear. So my last question for you
is one that I ask all of my guests because
I think it's something we all need during this time,
which is what's bringing you hope. Let's see, there's a
lot of things, UM that bring me hope. One of
the greatest things that has come out of this is that,
(18:03):
even with me continuing to work and my husband continuing
to work, we have spent a significant amount of time,
more so than we usually do UM with our children
and watching them kind of go through this and also
show that resilience and understand that this is a serious thing,
(18:23):
it's serious business, but that you know, it's something that
will pass. And seeing their friends and neighbors do what's
what's right, you know, social distancing and wearing masks UM,
watching them UM and interacting with them and spending more
time with the kids. That honestly has brought me, I
(18:43):
think the most hope, because in some ways, I think
people get very depressed about this world and you know,
what things are coming to and how terrible some things are,
and that's it shouldn't be ignored. Those those kind of
feelings shouldn't be ignored. But I also think that there's
been so many, you know, positive things that have come
(19:04):
out of this where people have you know, cut down
on their commutes and done a lot of stuff remotely
and saved some of that time and gotten to spend
more time at home with their kids. So that's that's
really what I kind of hang on and UM and
try to focus on because you know, we all work
a little bit too much, I think, and uh and
(19:24):
over extend ourselves, at least I know I do. And
so getting to you know, have a little bit of
that time back and spending it with the family, I
think is really the most gratifying thing that, UM, that
I've experienced in the past few months. That's lovely, and
I relate. Even with my my college boy, I relate.
So this has been wonderful and really really informative and
(19:48):
important for people to hear. UM. I'm grateful to you
for taking the time I may thank you so much
for coming on the podcast today and for sharing your
experience of these last months. Thank you, Danny for having
me it really it's been fun and UM and I'm
so glad that you started this podcast so that people
can just get a sense of what others are going
(20:10):
through and just feel that connection in ways that you know,
they didn't even know they were connected. So thank you
for for doing this. Thank you, Thanks for listening to
the Way We Live Now. Tell us the way you're
living now we want to hear. Call us on. You
(20:31):
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the Way We Live Now pot. We are creating a
(20:53):
community here and we would love for you to join us.
You can find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder. The
Way We Live Now is a production of iHeart Radio.
It's produced by a low Bulante Bethan Macaluso is executive producer.
Special thanks to Tristan McNeil and Tyler Klang. For more
podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
(21:14):
or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is the Way we live now.
Today is day one d since most of us have
had a routine checkup of any kind, and day forty
eight of this podcast, I've been thinking about all of
our health beyond the anxiety of COVID. I mean, have
any of us had a checkup seeing the dentist, had
a colonoscopy or a mammogram? And what about those of
(00:29):
us who were already contending with health issues or facing surgery.
My guest today is Dr Niam Wilson, Director of Breast Surgery,
Quality and Research at the Hartford Healthcare Cancer Institute na MA.
Thank you so much for talking with me about the
(00:51):
way we live now. Absolutely, it is my pleasure to
join you. Describe for me where you are right at
this very moment as we're speaking, as we're having this conversation.
Just give me a sense of what you're looking at
where you're sitting. So I'm actually upstairs, um in my closet,
which is thankfully is a It's a nice sized closet,
(01:13):
but I'm roaming around up here because I have a
great WiFi signal, and also my children can't get up
here because there are several doors blocking us, UM, and
if I had those doors unlocked, I can guarantee that
one of them, if not all three, would at some
point come barging in here and want to take some
(01:35):
of my shoes, or use the bathroom, or in some
way just kind of be around me. So I've I've
locked a couple of doors, and my husband is helping
babysit for for this short period of time. But I'm
looking out my backyard window, UM and looking at all
the various things that we've set up during this quarantine
period UM for them to play with because they haven't
(01:58):
really gotten to see their friends and everything, and just
actually feeling very grateful, UM for the nice weather we've
been having and the fact that we have a nice
backyard and everything for for them. By the way, you
are not the only guest who I've spoken to from
a closet um and in a closet um, although I
(02:19):
had several guests who have been in cars, like in
cars outside their house so that they could Yes, I've
done that. I've taken conference calls out there. So this
is the way we live now. So absolutely, when did
you first realize the enormity of COVID nineteen. When did
it really hit home for you as a physician. Your
(02:40):
husband is a physician as well, so I'm wondering in
your household sort of when it became clear that this
was coming and it was going to be huge. I
think my husband and I kind of caught on pretty early. UM,
And I think there's two reasons for that. One is that, UM,
a very close friend of mine from residency for some
(03:03):
general surgery trained and my very very close friend from
residency and I still keep in close contact. And that
person is Robert Redfield's son, also by the same name,
Robert Redfield. Actually he's the third So he and I
would communicate, um, you know, every so often. And as
(03:24):
soon as I kind of heard some of these stories
that we're coming out about um wuhan and um, you know,
these other areas getting affected, I started you know, texting
him and calling him and we were communicating about it,
and he definitely let me know that this was you know,
a really really big, really big problem, maybe bigger than
(03:45):
what um, we were being kind of led to believe.
So that was kind of my little inside line because UM,
you know, I was kind of hearing it certainly second hand,
but or even third hand potentially, But but I felt
like I was getting sort of some very very good
information from that. The second reason is because my husband
(04:07):
and I do read a lot of scientific journals and
some of the articles that were being published about what
was going on in Uhan. It was kind of easy
to see how this could really really explode if you
understand some of the basic principles about infectious diseases and
especially viruses UM and so we you know, I remember
(04:31):
when this is kind of all first was getting going
maybe mid February, late February, early March, UM, really trying
to think ahead about how this is going to change
our our lives, our work, and trying to prepare for it.
But of course, what you kind of learn along the
way is that there's really no way to actually prepare
(04:51):
for it. I mean, you can think about it all
you want. You can um come up with plans, you
can come up with ideas, but until you're living it,
until you're living quarantine and you're dealing with you know,
all the issues uh with our patients in the hospitals
and seeing what actually happens, I'm not sure you can
(05:11):
really totally prepare for all of those things, but it's
good to think through them if you can. So we
tried as best as we could, um to do that,
which yeah, I think it was a round the end
of February early March when we were like, oh, this
is going to be a really really big problem, and
of course you know it is and it was and
it is. Yeah. I imagine it must have been frustrating
(05:32):
to kind of know or really haven't inside sense of
the enormity of it to some degree, and to see
how slow we were to really take it seriously. By we,
I mean as a country. Yeah. And it's hard to know,
of course what you know really happened. Um. During the
(05:53):
outbreak in China, we weren't given totally accurate information for
better or for worse, whether that was intial or not. Um.
You know, I don't I don't want to comment about
that kind of stuff. There's a ton of conspiracy theories
about that, but we don't have to go there. Um.
And but you know, it's but knowing just kind of
how quickly this could get out of control, um, and
(06:15):
the fact that we weren't really responding to that possibility
was frightening. UM. And so I think that we were
definitely late to do to implement some of the things
we needed to implement, but we did manage to significantly
slow the curve. I mean, I will say at least
at least in Connecticut, none of our hospitals were ever
(06:37):
so overwhelmed to the point where we did not have
what we needed. We were running low on some supplies,
and we certainly expanded our capabilities in certain areas with
entire floors being made COVID floors, the you know, entire
I see us being made COVID, I see us. But
(06:57):
you know, we never got to the point like Italy,
so I'm thankful for that. So you know, the maneuvers
that were put into place did absolutely slow things down.
So you know when you say the e R was
turned into entirely COVID, and you know, floors were converted
into COVID, which is true at many many hospitals. Um,
(07:19):
this is really why I wanted to talk to you,
because you're a breast surgeon, and as we know, cancer
stops for no one. And I've been so haunted since
the beginning of the pandemic by the idea that there
were people who were waiting for surgery or you know,
(07:40):
my own husband was sick last year and I thought,
my god, what have it been now and what would
have happened to him? And so I'm I'm wondering what
these months have been like for you in terms of
you know, and you're also the mother of young kids
and going to the hospital, seeing patients continuing to perform surgery.
What is it like? It was very challenging. Um. You know,
(08:05):
a lot of us were kind of making things up
as we went along, but obviously with tremendous thought and
experience and good ideas, but ultimately we were really making
things up. UM. So what I mean by that is,
for example, at a certain point, our operating rooms were
(08:26):
really no longer available UM or uh, you know, taking
patients to the operating room who weren't about to die
or have some terrible, you know thing going on if
if they had a diagnosis of cancer. A lot of
times for our breast cancer patients, UM, those patients can
often take a medication as some kind of treatment before
(08:50):
going to the operating room. So there were specific criteria
that we developed in conjunction with Memorials, Flimpentering and a
whole host other cancer programs that we're doing this to
to say that if somebody was coming in with a
new diagnosis of breast cancer, if they had the ability
to take medicines first and stay out of the operating room,
(09:13):
then that's what we did. And so there were women
who would come to my office in the midst of
this crisis, UM, first of all, to hear the news
that they had a breast cancer, which is devastating in
and of itself, and then to be told, I'm so sorry,
but we can't operate right now. It's not it's not possible, UM,
But you know, we're not going to let it go untreated.
(09:35):
We're going to treat you with medication first as sort
of a stop gap. And it's totally acceptable to do this,
it's recommended in certain situations, but you know that's not
it's not our usual pathway. And it was really really
tough for my patients to hear that, UM, and I
think that they just felt even more isolated and alone
(09:57):
and um and scared because they weren't going to at
least be able to get this thing out of their body.
And you know, that's that's just that's any what any
woman wants when they have breast cancer is just get
it out of me, and I couldn't do that. It
was a scary time for them. So finally when we
(10:18):
were able to you know, open back up a little
bit and slowly get people back, um, they were just
you know, so so grateful for that to be able
to finally, you know, go through the surgery, even though
nobody wants surgery. They were just almost you know, calling
everyday thing, is it is it safe? And I come back?
You know, when can I get on the schedule, and
(10:38):
and and that that kind of thing, because they just,
you know, they didn't want to go on living with that.
And so I think it was it was tremendously scary
for for my patients. And I you know, I have
a tremendous amount of empathy for anyone who has that
kind of a diagnosis, and then combine that with what
we're all going through right now, it was just it
(11:00):
was so hard. So you know, part of my practice
is almost as like a therapist. I would say, um
and uh, and I really know I bond with my patients.
I connect with them, and I think that especially for
women who are diagnosed in this time, they just need
a lot of extra support. So that's what you know,
we were able to do. How long has it been
now since you've been able to be back in the hour,
(11:23):
Let's see. I think we started doing the cases again
around say about them three or four weeks ago, something
like that, so there was definitely a backlog. Um. You know,
there are a number of surgeons in my group, and
we were all keeping track of how many patients who
were on the list who needed to be scheduled, and um,
(11:49):
we're kind of slowly working through. But it was you know,
it's we just want to get them on as soon
as possible, but you have to do it in a
safe way. So uh, there were some patients who almost
wanted to see what someone else's experience was first before
they came in, and then once you see that, it's
you know, what we're doing in the actual operating room
(12:10):
is UM, we're being very very cautious. There's a lot
of restrictions, not a lot of visitors allowed. Everyone has
to have a COVID test. I mean, the patients do
UM prior to having surgery. So there's a lot of
precautions that we're taking. UM and of course everyone is
wearing a mask, including all of the nurses, all of
the doctors, all of the you know, assistance and everyone. Um,
(12:33):
So it is safe, I think, to come in and
have these procedures done. But it's a different it's a
different ballgame right now. I'm curious if you have anything
to say about like what this brings out in people,
This crisis on top of crisis, um, the anxiety. There
are those who are you know, terribly anxious and want
(12:55):
to get it out and want to take action. And
then there are you know, all of those who are
sort of holding those people and those those stories and
that anxiety that the nurses, the doctors, the staff. Are
you seeing anything in people like any quality of oh,
does anything at all that feels new to you or
(13:17):
different to you or heightened during this time? I think
what I have seen in in my patients, which I
do often, I see this to some degree, but I
think you're right that it's sort of heightened right now.
Is just this sense of of strength to be honest
and resilience. You know, I tell my patients, you know, okay,
(13:38):
we can do your surgery, but here's the deal. You know,
you're going to have to have this very unpleasant test
five days beforehand, because I don't know if you've experienced it,
but it is not a fun test to have a
COVID test. That swab is very uncomfortable. But you're going
to have to have this test. You're not going to
be able to have a family member with you at all.
(13:59):
It's basically curb side drop off, and when the procedure
is done and you've woken up from anesthesia, we bring
it back out to get in the car. I mean,
you know, no, no one can be at your side. Um.
These are all very different things, and I uh, than
than what we're used to. You know, we're re used
to sort of the comforts of trying to have people
(14:19):
have as pleasant experience as possible when they're having surgery,
which is not pleasant, and we can't offer those things.
So what I've seen in my patients more even more
so than usual, is this sense of you know, Okay,
I get it, I know why you guys are doing this.
Let's get it done. I can do this, you know.
(14:41):
And and it's it's inspiring because I can't I can't
imagine being on the other side of the table. Um,
It's it's really hard what they're going through. And compounded
with you know, being told that they're going to be alone,
You're going to be wearing a mask. Everyone's wearing a mask.
You can't even see, you know, the sympathy on somebody
else's face. Um, it's it's definitely made tougher for them.
(15:06):
But you know, they show up, they get it done,
they're grateful, they go home. UM, and I think it's, um,
it's just a show of force for them. It's they're
they're incredible women who have done this during this time.
That's so good to hear and and and inspiring. I
think a lot of people listening are having this thought.
(15:28):
You know, I know I'm overdue for all kinds of
checkups and annual screenings. People aren't jumping to go see
the doctor for just regular routine reasons. What are you
seeing now and and and what are your thoughts and like,
what are you telling people about. We're not in a
(15:49):
normal time, and we don't know what that's going to
look like. And yet in some way or another, life
also still has to go on in some safe way. Right.
What's scary for me as a breast surgeon is that
I know that there are a number of breast cancers
every week. That if hours had been usual and screening
(16:11):
mammograms have been going on, I would have been seeing
those patients with screening mamograms and ultrasounds and everything shut
down for that period of time. All of those women.
It's not like their breast cancers didn't go away, they
just haven't been diagnosed yet. And so that is what
frightens me that there is this subgroup of women who
(16:33):
have yet to come back for their mammogram, and they
would have been diagnosed had they been able to get
their mammogram a couple of months ago, but it was
completely shut down because it wasn't really you know, safe
to come in. And so those are the women who
you know, I will end up seeing at some point
in the next month or two. That said, a couple
(16:54):
of months in the breast cancer world, in terms of
a diagnosis often does not change in overall prognosis very much.
I don't want people to freak out that a couple
of months has set them back, but I would absolutely
encourage women to get to their doctor's appointments for you know,
the regular checkups, because the doctor's offices often are kind
(17:17):
of the safer places to be um. I've had patience
who I've seen in the office in the past few weeks.
Everyone's wearing masks. We are wiping everything down in between patients,
and they've told me that they feel safer in my
office than they do at Target. And I think that
might be right, I would imagine. Yeah, so I think
it's safe to come out and do those things because
(17:39):
you can't forget about your health. Yeah, that's really important
for everybody to hear. So my last question for you
is one that I ask all of my guests because
I think it's something we all need during this time,
which is what's bringing you hope. Let's see, there's a
lot of things, UM that bring me hope. One of
the greatest things that has come out of this is that,
(18:03):
even with me continuing to work and my husband continuing
to work, we have spent a significant amount of time,
more so than we usually do UM with our children
and watching them kind of go through this and also
show that resilience and understand that this is a serious thing,
(18:23):
it's serious business, but that you know, it's something that
will pass. And seeing their friends and neighbors do what's
what's right, you know, social distancing and wearing masks UM,
watching them UM and interacting with them and spending more
time with the kids. That honestly has brought me, I
(18:43):
think the most hope, because in some ways, I think
people get very depressed about this world and you know,
what things are coming to and how terrible some things are,
and that's it shouldn't be ignored. Those those kind of
feelings shouldn't be ignored. But I also think that there's
been so many, you know, positive things that have come
(19:04):
out of this where people have you know, cut down
on their commutes and done a lot of stuff remotely
and saved some of that time and gotten to spend
more time at home with their kids. So that's that's
really what I kind of hang on and UM and
try to focus on because you know, we all work
a little bit too much, I think, and uh and
(19:24):
over extend ourselves, at least I know I do. And
so getting to you know, have a little bit of
that time back and spending it with the family, I
think is really the most gratifying thing that, UM, that
I've experienced in the past few months. That's lovely, and
I relate. Even with my my college boy, I relate.
So this has been wonderful and really really informative and
(19:48):
important for people to hear. UM. I'm grateful to you
for taking the time I may thank you so much
for coming on the podcast today and for sharing your
experience of these last months. Thank you, Danny for having
me it really it's been fun and UM and I'm
so glad that you started this podcast so that people
can just get a sense of what others are going
(20:10):
through and just feel that connection in ways that you know,
they didn't even know they were connected. So thank you
for for doing this. Thank you, Thanks for listening to
the Way We Live Now. Tell us the way you're
living now we want to hear. Call us on. You
(20:31):
might want to a pen for this nine O nine
one three that's nine O nine seven one three eight
nine nine five and record your story and we might
just use it on the pod. Also, you can join
our Facebook group at facebook dot com slash groups slash
the Way We Live Now pot. We are creating a
(20:53):
community here and we would love for you to join us.
You can find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder. The
Way We Live Now is a production of iHeart Radio.
It's produced by a low Bulante Bethan Macaluso is executive producer.
Special thanks to Tristan McNeil and Tyler Klang. For more
podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
(21:14):
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