June 24, 2020 • 17 mins
A writer and musician feels resentful of the growing carelessness she sees in public spaces, knowing that her parents—both nurses—continue to put their lives on the line every day.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is the Way We Live Now.
Today is day one and six since We've learned what
to do with Pinto beans, and day fifty two of
this podcast. I'm an only child and both of my
parents are gone. My dad died when I was in
my early twenties, and one of the things I've thought
about so much since the beginning of the pandemic are
(00:29):
those of us who are fearful of losing our loved ones.
My guest today is Chelsea Erson, creator and host of
the really wonderful podcast Dear Young Rocker. Chelsea is also
an only child. Here's her story. Chelsea, thank you so
much for joining me to talk about the way we
(00:51):
live now. Danny, thank you so much for having me today.
So describe for us where you are right now while
we're having this conversation. San Where are you sitting? What
are you looking at? So I am sitting on an old,
upturned milk crate. I'm looking at a bare light bulb
that's blaring in my eyes, and I am in my basement,
(01:16):
which is very musty. I live in a house in Cambridge,
Massachusetts that was built in the early eighteen hundreds, and
there's a lot of dirt and rocks down here. Um,
but I like the smell of basements. I've always found
it kind of comforting. And this is actually where I
I record my podcast. Um, so I'm down here a lot.
(01:39):
There's some cobwebs, and there's some some mold, but I
don't mind it too much. Yeah, No, It's a lot
of us are in our basements and you know, deep
deep in our homes these days. So I really I
wanted to have you on the show today because I
love your podcast. Um, dear young rocker, and I'm also
(02:00):
an only child. You and I have that in common.
And can you tell us from the start of the
pandemic what your experience has been like during COVID nineteen.
For me, physically, things have not changed radically because before
(02:20):
the pandemic, I was a podcaster and freelance writer working
from home, and now I am still that. I just
no longer occasionally go to restaurants or cafes to write.
I am just writing in my house, um. And the
biggest changes have been my you know, my mental state.
(02:45):
I've always been a person who's embraced solitude because that
was the state I was born into I was an
only child, and my parents divorced when I was very
young UM and either ever remarried or dated or really
brought family friends over, so I was raised pretty much alone,
(03:08):
and I've learned I was bitter about that when I
was younger, but in my adult life, I've learned that
a lot of my strength comes from that, and a
lot of my creative intuition comes from having lived so
much of my life in my head, coming up with
stories to entertain myself. So for me, quarantine wasn't a
(03:32):
big shock or a big change. Of course, I missed
my my closest friends, and seeing them on zoom isn't
the same. But I haven't really seen my parents, which
is different. And I wasn't like a see them every
week kind of daughter anyway. But now that it's been
(03:54):
three months, it feels strange thinking that the last time
I hugged them, as you know, probably four months ago.
So that's the biggest change. And they are both UM
nurses and one of the busiest hospitals in the country.
And my mom is sixty nine years old and she
(04:15):
is a nurse manager, so she has to coordinate eight
COVID nineteen units single handedly holding five or six pages
and cell phones and walking the whole hospital. And my
dad is an icy you nurse, so he works directly
with COVID patients and he's sixty two. UM. And that's
(04:35):
really scary because many nurses in their hospital and in
their departments have come down with COVID. Because it's even
in hospitals where you would think everything's as sanitized as possible,
there are people who take a test and get a
false negative and they are put in with the rest
(04:56):
of the patients who aren't COVID and it spreads, and
it spreads to the nurses and hearing exactly the gruesome
details of what it looks like to die from this
disease and how you're separated from your family, from my parents, UM,
I just can't get that. I can't get those images
(05:17):
out of my mind. And you know, at this point,
we're three months in and it's nice out and people
are going outside, they're pulling their masks down occasionally, they're
feeling hopeful, and I am not feeling any different. I
still know that it is a non zero chance I
(05:41):
could lose both of my parents to this disease. UM
before this is over and it could be two years
until there's a vaccine. So that is something that I
feel very much alone in in a different way than
I've felt alone in my life before. That's I'm at yeah,
that no, that that makes so much sense. It's I
(06:03):
think it's almost more personal for us when it's not
about us ourselves but about um feeling so protective of
the people that we love and this sense that we,
you know, for better and for worse, are all in
this together, and what you do affects me, and what
I do affect you. And what somebody does in you know,
another state, or who has a pool party, or who
(06:26):
um you know, decides that masks aren't necessary. You know,
all of these things affect all of us. And m
can I ask what state are your parents in? So
they're also in Massachusetts. I've lived here my whole life
and they work at the big hospital and with staring
mass So did they start really sharing with you the
(06:48):
stories of you know, what they were seeing pretty much
right from the start, or did they try to protect
you from it at all? It's like everything's been in
my life with divorced parents, I've been ripped into very
separate directions in that my dad downplays it, which is
surprising because he's a very scientific person. He loves he
(07:12):
loves science, he loves reading popular science magazines and watching
you know, nova and everything. But he started with, oh,
it's just another flu, and I thought that was so
strange coming from him, who was a very like realist, UM,
until I realized he was protecting me because I texted
him early on, are you going to be working with
(07:35):
the COVID patients? Like, can't they make the younger nurses
do that? And instead of saying yes or no, he
just said, Oh, I'm so healthy for my age. I've
never had any loan problems, which isn't true. He's had
a fungal infection of his lungs. And then he just
started sending me these cute see Facebook messages every day
with pictures of puppies and kittens and rainbows, but not
(07:58):
really talking about anything ing. And on the other end
of the spectrum, my mom has called me in tears
many times, Um, just nearly collapsing from exhaustion of working
a thirteen hour shift at sixty nine years old with
a mask on and telling me today we ran out
(08:18):
of body bags, so they brought in these new body
bags that are from the government, and they're all black
there for I think battlefield casualties, and they're thick and
rubber and you can't even see the body, the shape
of the body when they're in them. And she described
these bags being stacked up in hallways, and all I
(08:41):
can do since hearing that detail is imagine my parents
being zipped up into one UM. And my mom told
me a scene of early on she fought, I mean
verbally screamed, had a screaming match with another manager just
to allow a family to see their nine year old
(09:03):
daughter who was dying, UM, just through a window. The
other manager didn't want to let the parents even in
the building, UM, even though it's there's a separate entrance
through a tunnel and there's a window. There's all these precautions,
and my mom just used her last you know, ounce
of energy to let these parents, UM wave goodbye to
their daughter. And that's still happening. And as I see
(09:27):
these people on Twitter talking about, you know, things are
getting better and maybe we don't all need to use masks.
We can use herd immunity and our friend groups. I
just feel like I'm being gas lit, like they live
in a different reality because I have these images. Yeah,
now I'm just imagining how it is for you. I mean,
(09:47):
you you live alone, and I relate very much to
that feeling that solitude is your friend. But it's this
is a different kind of solitude now, and you're hearing
directly so much about what's going on, and then we're
all inundated by you know, this kind of relentless um
(10:11):
social media and news cycle that is so noisy and
and so full of opinion, and there's information and then
there's false information, and and I just wonder how you're
managing to like sort of handle emotionally being in this
(10:33):
place where, um, there's got to be so much anger
at the people who aren't taking this seriously. I'm hearing
so many stories of people being upset, frustrated, angry just
out on the street, somebody running by without a mask, jogging,
or you know, people who are just deciding that it's
okay to get together in groups, um and all sorts
(10:54):
of stuff like that. But you, it's so personal for you,
and it's not just about you and your own health
as a young woman, but it's about your parents and
what they're facing. I heard a story in New York
where a nurse working in in one of the COVID units,
you know, was walking home in her in her scrubs
or whatever, and people in a cafe outside, in a
(11:17):
cafe with no masks on, were applauding her, and she's like,
don't applaud me. Put on your masks. Absolutely, it's really tough.
I've had to really be careful on social media, um,
because if I end up in that hole, I fall
down that rabbit hole of people who believe it's a
hoax and whatever. I I I feel like I'm going
(11:42):
to black out from just anxiety and anger. That it's
this like combined feeling that I just it's like an
instant panic attack instead of a rise to a panic attack,
it's just an instant I cannot breathe um. And I'm like,
you are going to kill someone's mom or dad, or
or sister or brother or child. Um. And I yeah,
(12:03):
I can't separate from that. And I just you know,
being a memoirist, you just want to take control of
the narrative. I want to write about this. I want
to be in the future telling my younger self you
get through it. It's it's all gonna be okay, or
whatever happens, you you find the way to wrap up
the story even if something terrible does happen. UM. But
(12:26):
I haven't been able to write about it. And I
guess I'm just I'm just too close to it. I'm
too in it right now, UM, And I want to
find that hopeful note to end the story on. But
I think I don't think hope is the right thing
for me right now. And I actually turned to my
favorite book, When Things Fall Apart, I Pay my Children,
(12:50):
which I turned to any time I have a problem,
and she writes a lot about giving up hope, and
that's kind of what I'm trying to actually move towards. UM.
She says that giving up hope is an affirmation, or
abandoning hope is an affirmation. And I actually found this
(13:13):
quote today that i'd like to share. UM, that that
kind of spoke to me. And she says, to stay
with that shakiness, to stay with a broken heart, a
rumbling stomach, with the feelings of hopelessness. That is the
path of true awakening. Sticking with that uncertainty, getting the
(13:35):
knack of relaxing in the midst of chaos. That is
the spiritual path. So I just see this as a
learning opportunity and a growth opportunity to be faced with
the most uncertainty I've ever had in some ways, and
(13:56):
to to just feel every inch of it and think
about the other people experiencing this and send them love
and see if eventually I'll learn something from it. Chelsea,
that's beautiful, and thank you for reading Pamma to us.
It's just making me think of one one last thing,
which is, there's this writing exercise that I have given
(14:19):
my students for years, um, beginning every sentence with the
words I remember, and it's it's a it's a it's
a really beautiful writing prompt because if you write the
words I remember, you will finish the sentence. It's just
they're that evocative. But then, um, a friend of mine,
the writer Ruth O Zacky kind of who's a fiction writer,
have turned that exercise up a notch into a fiction
(14:42):
writing exercise that you just made me think of when
you said that you're you know that you're as a memoirist,
you're having a hard time writing right now, which is
imagine that you are remembering this from a future time.
I haven't tried to do that, but I just think
it's interesting because we don't know right now. We're living
with profound uncertainty about everything from from the big things
(15:08):
to the small things, and yet we are living through
a moment in time that, in all likelihood, we will
look back on someday with a different kind of measure
of clarity than we can possibly have right now. But
we can imagine what it would be. I can only
imagine that I'll look back on this as the time
I had. You know, I have this one big worry,
(15:30):
but a lot of my little worries aren't there, and
or they're dwarfed by this one big cloud. And I
have had time to think about, you know, writing another book.
I've had had time to let my mind truly wander,
and sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. But I
(15:51):
don't know that I'll ever have a period of this
kind of freedom again in my life. Very perspective giving Chelsea.
Thank you so much. It's a really wonderful conversation. And
I hope your parents stay well and that you continue
to grow through this and you know, find and make
(16:12):
meaning of it. Thank you, Danny, And I'm looking forward
to hearing more of the stories on these podcasts and
seeing what I can take from them to figure out
my own ending to the story. Thanks for listening to
the Way We Live Now. Tell us the way you're
living now. We want to hear call us on You
(16:35):
might want to get a pen for this nine oh
nine seven one three eight that's nine o nine seven
one three eight nine nine five and record your story
and we might just use it on the pod. Also,
you can join our Facebook group at facebook dot com
slash groups slash the Way we Live Now pot We
(16:56):
are creating a community here and we would love for
you to join us. You can find me on Instagram
at Danny Rider. The Way We Live Now is a
production of iHeart Radio. It's produced by a Low Brulante.
Bethan Macaluso is executive producer. Special thanks to Tristan mc
neil and Tyler Klang. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(17:19):
get your podcasts.
I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is the Way We Live Now.
Today is day one and six since We've learned what
to do with Pinto beans, and day fifty two of
this podcast. I'm an only child and both of my
parents are gone. My dad died when I was in
my early twenties, and one of the things I've thought
about so much since the beginning of the pandemic are
(00:29):
those of us who are fearful of losing our loved ones.
My guest today is Chelsea Erson, creator and host of
the really wonderful podcast Dear Young Rocker. Chelsea is also
an only child. Here's her story. Chelsea, thank you so
much for joining me to talk about the way we
(00:51):
live now. Danny, thank you so much for having me today.
So describe for us where you are right now while
we're having this conversation. San Where are you sitting? What
are you looking at? So I am sitting on an old,
upturned milk crate. I'm looking at a bare light bulb
that's blaring in my eyes, and I am in my basement,
(01:16):
which is very musty. I live in a house in Cambridge,
Massachusetts that was built in the early eighteen hundreds, and
there's a lot of dirt and rocks down here. Um,
but I like the smell of basements. I've always found
it kind of comforting. And this is actually where I
I record my podcast. Um, so I'm down here a lot.
(01:39):
There's some cobwebs, and there's some some mold, but I
don't mind it too much. Yeah, No, It's a lot
of us are in our basements and you know, deep
deep in our homes these days. So I really I
wanted to have you on the show today because I
love your podcast. Um, dear young rocker, and I'm also
(02:00):
an only child. You and I have that in common.
And can you tell us from the start of the
pandemic what your experience has been like during COVID nineteen.
For me, physically, things have not changed radically because before
(02:20):
the pandemic, I was a podcaster and freelance writer working
from home, and now I am still that. I just
no longer occasionally go to restaurants or cafes to write.
I am just writing in my house, um. And the
biggest changes have been my you know, my mental state.
(02:45):
I've always been a person who's embraced solitude because that
was the state I was born into I was an
only child, and my parents divorced when I was very
young UM and either ever remarried or dated or really
brought family friends over, so I was raised pretty much alone,
(03:08):
and I've learned I was bitter about that when I
was younger, but in my adult life, I've learned that
a lot of my strength comes from that, and a
lot of my creative intuition comes from having lived so
much of my life in my head, coming up with
stories to entertain myself. So for me, quarantine wasn't a
(03:32):
big shock or a big change. Of course, I missed
my my closest friends, and seeing them on zoom isn't
the same. But I haven't really seen my parents, which
is different. And I wasn't like a see them every
week kind of daughter anyway. But now that it's been
(03:54):
three months, it feels strange thinking that the last time
I hugged them, as you know, probably four months ago.
So that's the biggest change. And they are both UM
nurses and one of the busiest hospitals in the country.
And my mom is sixty nine years old and she
(04:15):
is a nurse manager, so she has to coordinate eight
COVID nineteen units single handedly holding five or six pages
and cell phones and walking the whole hospital. And my
dad is an icy you nurse, so he works directly
with COVID patients and he's sixty two. UM. And that's
(04:35):
really scary because many nurses in their hospital and in
their departments have come down with COVID. Because it's even
in hospitals where you would think everything's as sanitized as possible,
there are people who take a test and get a
false negative and they are put in with the rest
(04:56):
of the patients who aren't COVID and it spreads, and
it spreads to the nurses and hearing exactly the gruesome
details of what it looks like to die from this
disease and how you're separated from your family, from my parents, UM,
I just can't get that. I can't get those images
(05:17):
out of my mind. And you know, at this point,
we're three months in and it's nice out and people
are going outside, they're pulling their masks down occasionally, they're
feeling hopeful, and I am not feeling any different. I
still know that it is a non zero chance I
(05:41):
could lose both of my parents to this disease. UM
before this is over and it could be two years
until there's a vaccine. So that is something that I
feel very much alone in in a different way than
I've felt alone in my life before. That's I'm at yeah,
that no, that that makes so much sense. It's I
(06:03):
think it's almost more personal for us when it's not
about us ourselves but about um feeling so protective of
the people that we love and this sense that we,
you know, for better and for worse, are all in
this together, and what you do affects me, and what
I do affect you. And what somebody does in you know,
another state, or who has a pool party, or who
(06:26):
um you know, decides that masks aren't necessary. You know,
all of these things affect all of us. And m
can I ask what state are your parents in? So
they're also in Massachusetts. I've lived here my whole life
and they work at the big hospital and with staring
mass So did they start really sharing with you the
(06:48):
stories of you know, what they were seeing pretty much
right from the start, or did they try to protect
you from it at all? It's like everything's been in
my life with divorced parents, I've been ripped into very
separate directions in that my dad downplays it, which is
surprising because he's a very scientific person. He loves he
(07:12):
loves science, he loves reading popular science magazines and watching
you know, nova and everything. But he started with, oh,
it's just another flu, and I thought that was so
strange coming from him, who was a very like realist, UM,
until I realized he was protecting me because I texted
him early on, are you going to be working with
(07:35):
the COVID patients? Like, can't they make the younger nurses
do that? And instead of saying yes or no, he
just said, Oh, I'm so healthy for my age. I've
never had any loan problems, which isn't true. He's had
a fungal infection of his lungs. And then he just
started sending me these cute see Facebook messages every day
with pictures of puppies and kittens and rainbows, but not
(07:58):
really talking about anything ing. And on the other end
of the spectrum, my mom has called me in tears
many times, Um, just nearly collapsing from exhaustion of working
a thirteen hour shift at sixty nine years old with
a mask on and telling me today we ran out
(08:18):
of body bags, so they brought in these new body
bags that are from the government, and they're all black
there for I think battlefield casualties, and they're thick and
rubber and you can't even see the body, the shape
of the body when they're in them. And she described
these bags being stacked up in hallways, and all I
(08:41):
can do since hearing that detail is imagine my parents
being zipped up into one UM. And my mom told
me a scene of early on she fought, I mean
verbally screamed, had a screaming match with another manager just
to allow a family to see their nine year old
(09:03):
daughter who was dying, UM, just through a window. The
other manager didn't want to let the parents even in
the building, UM, even though it's there's a separate entrance
through a tunnel and there's a window. There's all these precautions,
and my mom just used her last you know, ounce
of energy to let these parents, UM wave goodbye to
their daughter. And that's still happening. And as I see
(09:27):
these people on Twitter talking about, you know, things are
getting better and maybe we don't all need to use masks.
We can use herd immunity and our friend groups. I
just feel like I'm being gas lit, like they live
in a different reality because I have these images. Yeah,
now I'm just imagining how it is for you. I mean,
(09:47):
you you live alone, and I relate very much to
that feeling that solitude is your friend. But it's this
is a different kind of solitude now, and you're hearing
directly so much about what's going on, and then we're
all inundated by you know, this kind of relentless um
(10:11):
social media and news cycle that is so noisy and
and so full of opinion, and there's information and then
there's false information, and and I just wonder how you're
managing to like sort of handle emotionally being in this
(10:33):
place where, um, there's got to be so much anger
at the people who aren't taking this seriously. I'm hearing
so many stories of people being upset, frustrated, angry just
out on the street, somebody running by without a mask, jogging,
or you know, people who are just deciding that it's
okay to get together in groups, um and all sorts
(10:54):
of stuff like that. But you, it's so personal for you,
and it's not just about you and your own health
as a young woman, but it's about your parents and
what they're facing. I heard a story in New York
where a nurse working in in one of the COVID units,
you know, was walking home in her in her scrubs
or whatever, and people in a cafe outside, in a
(11:17):
cafe with no masks on, were applauding her, and she's like,
don't applaud me. Put on your masks. Absolutely, it's really tough.
I've had to really be careful on social media, um,
because if I end up in that hole, I fall
down that rabbit hole of people who believe it's a
hoax and whatever. I I I feel like I'm going
(11:42):
to black out from just anxiety and anger. That it's
this like combined feeling that I just it's like an
instant panic attack instead of a rise to a panic attack,
it's just an instant I cannot breathe um. And I'm like,
you are going to kill someone's mom or dad, or
or sister or brother or child. Um. And I yeah,
(12:03):
I can't separate from that. And I just you know,
being a memoirist, you just want to take control of
the narrative. I want to write about this. I want
to be in the future telling my younger self you
get through it. It's it's all gonna be okay, or
whatever happens, you you find the way to wrap up
the story even if something terrible does happen. UM. But
(12:26):
I haven't been able to write about it. And I
guess I'm just I'm just too close to it. I'm
too in it right now, UM, And I want to
find that hopeful note to end the story on. But
I think I don't think hope is the right thing
for me right now. And I actually turned to my
favorite book, When Things Fall Apart, I Pay my Children,
(12:50):
which I turned to any time I have a problem,
and she writes a lot about giving up hope, and
that's kind of what I'm trying to actually move towards. UM.
She says that giving up hope is an affirmation, or
abandoning hope is an affirmation. And I actually found this
(13:13):
quote today that i'd like to share. UM, that that
kind of spoke to me. And she says, to stay
with that shakiness, to stay with a broken heart, a
rumbling stomach, with the feelings of hopelessness. That is the
path of true awakening. Sticking with that uncertainty, getting the
(13:35):
knack of relaxing in the midst of chaos. That is
the spiritual path. So I just see this as a
learning opportunity and a growth opportunity to be faced with
the most uncertainty I've ever had in some ways, and
(13:56):
to to just feel every inch of it and think
about the other people experiencing this and send them love
and see if eventually I'll learn something from it. Chelsea,
that's beautiful, and thank you for reading Pamma to us.
It's just making me think of one one last thing,
which is, there's this writing exercise that I have given
(14:19):
my students for years, um, beginning every sentence with the
words I remember, and it's it's a it's a it's
a really beautiful writing prompt because if you write the
words I remember, you will finish the sentence. It's just
they're that evocative. But then, um, a friend of mine,
the writer Ruth O Zacky kind of who's a fiction writer,
have turned that exercise up a notch into a fiction
(14:42):
writing exercise that you just made me think of when
you said that you're you know that you're as a memoirist,
you're having a hard time writing right now, which is
imagine that you are remembering this from a future time.
I haven't tried to do that, but I just think
it's interesting because we don't know right now. We're living
with profound uncertainty about everything from from the big things
(15:08):
to the small things, and yet we are living through
a moment in time that, in all likelihood, we will
look back on someday with a different kind of measure
of clarity than we can possibly have right now. But
we can imagine what it would be. I can only
imagine that I'll look back on this as the time
I had. You know, I have this one big worry,
(15:30):
but a lot of my little worries aren't there, and
or they're dwarfed by this one big cloud. And I
have had time to think about, you know, writing another book.
I've had had time to let my mind truly wander,
and sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. But I
(15:51):
don't know that I'll ever have a period of this
kind of freedom again in my life. Very perspective giving Chelsea.
Thank you so much. It's a really wonderful conversation. And
I hope your parents stay well and that you continue
to grow through this and you know, find and make
(16:12):
meaning of it. Thank you, Danny, And I'm looking forward
to hearing more of the stories on these podcasts and
seeing what I can take from them to figure out
my own ending to the story. Thanks for listening to
the Way We Live Now. Tell us the way you're
living now. We want to hear call us on You
(16:35):
might want to get a pen for this nine oh
nine seven one three eight that's nine o nine seven
one three eight nine nine five and record your story
and we might just use it on the pod. Also,
you can join our Facebook group at facebook dot com
slash groups slash the Way we Live Now pot We
(16:56):
are creating a community here and we would love for
you to join us. You can find me on Instagram
at Danny Rider. The Way We Live Now is a
production of iHeart Radio. It's produced by a Low Brulante.
Bethan Macaluso is executive producer. Special thanks to Tristan mc
neil and Tyler Klang. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(17:19):
get your podcasts.
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