January 1, 2023 • 40 mins
It’s the season 5 mid-season finale which ends on one helluva cliffhanger. So what’s next for all of our favorite characters? Wes Bentley stops by to share all the details about Jamie’s revenge plot. Along with calls for impeachment, Beth’s rock throwing and tests of loyalty for young Rip, there’s also the return of our very own Jimmy!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello, Yellowstone fans, It's Jefferson White with you again, Jimmy
Hurts from on the show, and can I just say
that it is it's good to be back. And I'm
not just talking about the podcast. I think that we're
all kind of reeling from this mid season finale. I
cannot wait to dive into it and unpack it with
the one and only Jen Landon aka Teeter.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hey Jeff and speaking for the entire Yellowstone community because
I can. I just got to say, it's really good
to have you home, even if that home is at
the four sixes. It was so heartwarming to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
And we might be seeing each other soon because it
looks like Teeter's going to Texas, so I'm going to
keep my eye out for you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
How crazy was this episode?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Really wild? An episode with these amazing contrasts, right, so
there's total loyalty being demonstrated and also just devastating betrayal.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, like from Young Rips branding and the commitment of
that to the ranch, to Jamie's knife in the back.
I mean, it was just.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Crazy, unbelievable. So we're gonna cover all that. Plus we
are very very lucky. We're gonna talk to the man
of the hour, Wes Bentley Jamie Dutton and maybe get
a glimpse into what's next for Jamie.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm flipping through his pages, like, Wow, that's gonna be
a beautiful scene in that turn it, and all I
see is someone's dragging me down the hallway, kicking me
in the face and I'm crying.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
We're gonna hear more from Wesson a little bit, but
first we're gonna take a very quick break.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Jeff, do your parents ever call you after an episode
to talk to you about what they didn't like that
you did, or just to tell you maybe that they
would have preferred that you do it slightly differently.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's devastating to hear. Luckily, no, they don't. Because I
haven't been in any of the episodes.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Jeff, I think today's episode is really going to be
about you. I have half a mind to interview you
as the guest because Jimmy does come back with a bang.
I loved all of those scenes between you and Emily.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh thank you. That was a real It was an
incredible treat to get to do that stuff with Kat Kelly,
and I'm also just excited for what the future holds.
I'm incredibly excited to get to work with my friends again, because,
let me tell you, it was a long, long half
season being banished, banished from the ranch. Speaking of banishment,
you know, this is also a huge Jamie episode, and
(02:55):
Jamie seems to have perhaps been pushed so close to
the edge that he's maybe finally snapped. And luckily we're
going to hear it from the horse's mouth, as it were.
We've got Wes Bentley as a guest today. I'm so
so excited to dig into this stuff with Wes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I actually this was my favorite season for the Jamie
character and Wes the actor. This might the last two
episodes might have been my favorite two episodes, and the
scene with Beth in this episode was probably my favorite
scene of all time for him.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I can't help but be reminded of the fight between
Jamie and Beth in season one. There's this like blowout
fight they have in the barn that I think comes
to blows and this scene really bookended that. But both
of these characters have changed so much, you know, the events,
the events of the last five seasons have changed them
so much such that this is a much deeper richer,
(03:54):
sort of nastier conflict that's digging up years and year
of resentment and anger and trauma that these characters have
shared or failed to share. So it's really really rich,
exciting stuff. I can't wait to talk to Wes about it.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, so before we do that, should we just jump
to the top and take everyone through this episode? Let's
do it?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So, I was great, why not start at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's a very good place to start. So, you know,
we start, We start in a cheery scene, a body
being dumped at the train station, you know, a real,
real cheerful moment. I thought it was so interesting the
dynamic that's being established there in terms of the relationship
with the train station. The way that Josh Lucas sort
(04:46):
of was whatever he was going through in that truck
as young Rip and young Lloyd we're dumping that body,
was particularly interesting to me. I wondered if you had
thoughts about that.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, it's fascinating seeing John Dutton long before his evolution,
or maybe mid part way through his evolution, and at
this time in his life he is not ready to imagine,
you know, Beth with anybody. He lost his wife recently,
he's sort of struggling with his own grief. He's not
ready to imagine Beth as an adult, and that that
(05:22):
takes him a while. It takes him a while to
come around to the idea of Ripping Beth being together.
I don't know if you remember, but in season one
he also says to Beth, quit fucking the help, honey,
and then a few seasons later he's calling rip his son.
You know. So there's a lot of evolution that happens
over the events of the show Yellowstone that the character
has not come to yet.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, he he also dropped. There's these one liners. I mean,
one of the things that Taylor does so well is
he writes these sort of these truths that will play
out within dialogue and they and they feels entirely natural.
But when he talks about he says, protect the protect
(06:05):
yourself or the ranch itself, and you have no idea
how much fighting you'll do. It feels like a foreshadowing
and a looking back at the history of the ranch
at the same time and the dynamic that plays out there.
And he also says another one that I wrote down,
which was you will have a home till the day
you die or this ranch is no more and that
(06:26):
is something worth fighting for. And I thought that was
something again that not only was really beautiful, but is
this sort of theme that is played out historically in
this theme that plays out moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, it's funny this this timeline, this sort of you know,
Young JD. Young Rip timeline is in between. You're totally right,
it's this middle child timeline. We've seen events that happen
before it, and we've seen events that happen after it,
So you're right. His words kind of both prophecy the
future and like sort of are a are a story
(07:01):
about everything that's brought us to this point. It really
echoes in both directions forward and backwards in time.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, and then there's this very ominous thing, ominous moment
where Rip is about to be branded. John steps away
and you know says, I know what choice you'll make tomorrow,
and then he says to Young Rip, I didn't know
I had a choice, and Young you always have a choice.
(07:28):
But you know, basically, if you make one choice, you
go back to Wyoming where we just were, and you
don't come back. So it's it's it's loyal to your death.
So while we do have this sort of I mean,
at least I do from within the world, have this
sort of romantic notion about this branding thing because of
what it meant in terms of joining a family. And
(07:50):
that's what it felt like when I was within the scene.
Certainly looking at it from the outside is rather terrifying.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I mean, oh yeah, there was a choice, a choice,
because otherwise, you know, you've seen a murder, right, so
that the equation for the ranch is like, Okay, you
can work for us forever, or you are a witness
to us doing murder and disposing of the body.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
It's the same kind of choice that Jimmy was presented
with in season one. You know, Rip says, Okay, you
can accept this brand and come work on the Yellowstone,
or I'll send you to jail for the rest of
your life. You know, like it's sort of the like
kind of it's a sort of it's a barely a choice.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, you have free will fate. Okay, Well, onto
cheerier mutters. I have Jimmy and Emily with thirty seven
exclamation points written down in my notepad because when we
jump to you, I was so overwhelmed with joy and
Jeff I got to tell you are so you are
(08:51):
such an amazing actor, and that is that is apparent
in every single scene that you do. But there was
something I looked at you in these scenes that were
set at the four sixes, and it was a slightly
different version of the Jimmy that I was expecting. In
the Jimmy that I had known, you were a cowboy.
(09:15):
You were a four sixes cowboy, and I don't know
how you did it, but it was layered into everything
that you did, and it was just fantastic. Jeff, looking
at some looking at that four sixes footage, I couldn't
help but notice that some of the faces were faces
(09:38):
of people that I had met, not on set, but
at rodeo events and whatnot, one of those being true.
And I was wondering if you could talk a little
bit about all of the four six's cowboys that were
in those scenes and what it was like working with them,
because I don't know if the audience he knows this,
(10:00):
and I'm not even one hundred percent sure that a
lot of those people that we see in those four
six's uniforms are the four Six's cowboys, if not all
of them.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right, that's exactly right. It's a real pleasure. Now I've
gotten to spend some time with those guys, I'm getting
to know them better. So you're talking about Trueberson. His
brother Dusty Berson is also around. They're the wagon bosses
of two of these different sort of big operations down
at the four sixes. But a lot of these guys
have just become friends. So in season four I had
some scenes with Will Bodeker, who's an amazing cowboy and
(10:31):
also an incredible musician. Like, all these guys are so
multifaceted in a way that just kind of blows me
away every time. So this time we also got to
hear Will Bodeker his music, which was such a gift.
So also down there, we've got Casey Green, We've got Brewster,
We've got basically a whole squad. Zach Peters has been
(10:53):
taking care of me. It's also like, Yeah, these guys
are the best in the world at this They're the
sort of real life version of the Bunk House Boys,
you know, they're like the Seal Team six of cowboys.
They are absolutely incredible, and they're also incredibly patient with
me when they don't need to be, you know, I'm
an asshole coming from out of town, sort of messing
(11:15):
up their work day. Functionally speaking, like the days we
shoot at the Sixes are usually them working and our
film crew kind of coming in and just trying to
capture it and throwing me into the mix. Let's step
away for a second and when we come back, we'll
dive into the rest of the episode. So huge episode.
(11:47):
We spent that time down in Texas. Then we're back
up to Montana where we see the other side of this,
which is these cowboys getting ready to send this massive
herd down to Texas.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, we know they're going down to the Panhandle of Texas.
And then immediately after that, there's a few really moving scenes.
There's the dynamic with John and Monica where he basically
tells her about this other house for them to live
in and that he needs their help, and Monica basically
(12:18):
just says to him, all you had to do was
ask in terms of getting what you need. I found
that to be very simple and poignant. And again out
of John's mouth there comes another one of those lines
that just sort of lands on you, which is it
was something along the lines of sometimes he thinks that
people have to suffer so that they can teach the
(12:41):
next generation of sufferers how to handle it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, maybe God gives us suffering so we can pass
along the knowledge of how we survived it to the
next generation of sufferers.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's a photographic memory right there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, it was so moving, really, And you know, as
we speak about generations of sufferers, what have we been
watching in the extended Taylor verse, but generations of sufferers.
You know, Tait is now the youngest generation of sufferers,
and we've seen him face incredible adversity in his you know,
(13:14):
twelve thirteen, fourteen years of life. You know, in his
young life. It really is the Dutton family as violence
hunts them across generations. It really is generations of sufferers.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And John also says to Monica, the ranch can't be
tates of the ranch isn't here. And again it's one
of those moments where Taylor has in eighteen eighty three,
you know, and throughout this season of Yellowstone in particular,
been saying, Hey, this is how this is the seventh generation,
this is where the ranch is going to go, this
(13:46):
is what's going to happen. And it feels like we're
getting so close to it.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, and so there's this really you know, as everybody's
sort of getting ready to go down to Texas, there's
these really, as you said, a series of really lovely scenes,
including the next scene between John and his son Casey.
These two guys who aren't really talkers, right, These guys
are doers. They're not necessarily the most emotionally expressive guys.
(14:16):
But we see this sequence where John hugs his son
and tells him he loves him.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
In the interaction immediately following, Casey says to Rip, you'd
think he's the one leaving, and Rip tells him he is.
And there was something so sad to me about saying
by without actually even being able to say goodbye.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It's hard for these guys. Yeah, it really like there's
sort of reluctance to say the stuff. But you know,
we've heard it over and over again in season four,
Rip Tails, Jimmy cowboys don't say goodbye, we see you
later until we're in that fucking ground. There's this kind
of quiet like acceptance of their responsibility. But in some
ways I think that's also denial. You know, there's this
(14:57):
sort of inability to express these deep feelings or perhaps
the sort of recognition that expressing them doesn't necessarily make
them any easier, doesn't make them go away, It doesn't
solve the problem.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, so complicated. What's not complicated is what John says
to Claire in the car about how he's going to
handle the Jamie situation, which is menace, and Claire says,
I don't know how to fight with menace.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I love it when John says this shit that could
be coming out of the mouth of Jacob Dutton, Harrison
Ford's character in nineteen twenty three could easily be coming
out of the mouth of any of these generations. I'll
teach you how to fight with menace. It's such a
sort of the battles they've been waging, they've been waging
for so so long, but this time, you know, it's
(15:48):
a threat coming from inside the house. It's a threat
coming from inside his own family. And as we as
we learn this is like a gloves off episode for
Jamie like we've never seen before. He's using every tool
he has to tear down his own family, and he's
got a lot of tools. But before we get there,
we've also got a really lovely sequence in the bunk house.
(16:08):
We've got this beautiful sort of series of good byes.
We're headed down to Texas. There's a lot of talk
about how cold Texas is in the winter. It's great.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, that was sort of a sad moment on set. Granted,
we have no idea what's going to happen. I'm not
just saying that because I'm saying we can't tease anything audience.
Jeff and I truly do.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Not know what is going to happen. I think would
tell us.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, that was a sad moment because in the event
that we are separated for a period of time, while
we are so happy, Jeff and I cannot say that
enough to be able to be closer and potentially in
scenes with you. There were some good byes that that
(16:59):
felt that felt hard.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, a lot of goodbyes. It really everybody who's leaving
has these relationships, you know, Beth and Rip torn apart,
Abby and Ryan torn apart, Walker and Laramie torn Apart,
Teeter and Colby. Oh my god, this has been such
a sort of juicy, slow burned relationship for see. I think,
(17:23):
you know, listening to fans on social media, I think
everybody's hungry for details about how this thing works, and
we only get these little glimpses into it. But this
episode a a real left hook, emotional left hook knocked
me on my ass.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, it was sad saying goodbye to him. I loved
that Teeter. I love that Taylor had written for Teter
to tell Colby that she loved him on the inside.
I can just tell you that it was this very like,
it was this very neat experience because Teeter is a cowboy.
Teeter is what the Ryan character talks about. Cowboying will
(18:03):
always come first, you know, that is the thing. You
will go anywhere for it. And so there's this excitement
of being able to do some cowboy shit, some real
intense cowboy shit, and at the same time, there's there's
sadness over saying goodbye and being able to love somebody
(18:24):
and not knowing where it will go, and it's and
it's just in this moment maybe yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So So, you know, speaking of relationships, Sarah and Jamie
cooking along that sort of Machiavellians Josom is increasingly frightening.
I don't want to dig too much into the Jamie
stuff in this episode, because we got to talk to
Wes Bentley about it, and why not hear it from
the man himself instead of hearing me and you rave
(18:53):
about him. So obviously let's let's just run through it
real quick because we're going to talk to Wes about
it too. But that Jamie, you know, comes to confront
Jamie about having brought the impeachment hearing, and it's been
a so far successful first step. So we learned that
the Montana State House voted sixty seven to thirty three
to bring that impeachment hearing. So now John Dutton's going
(19:13):
to have to face this tribunal. Beth comes to confront
Jamie about it, and Jamie, to his credit, fights back.
He has been empowered, maybe by this relationship with Sarah,
maybe by just being pushed a little too far. He
fights back in a big way.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, this was my favorite Jamie West scene. He was amazing, and.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Whatever, I know that I feel like the Jamie character
gets so much. You know, some people are so angry
at him, but I love him, and I was so
relieved that he had this moment where he just let
it rip.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So one of the big revelations of this argument between
Jamie and Beth this catastrophic argument where they're saying things
that can't be unsaid is Jamie tells Beth about the
train station and she's learning about it for the first time. Yeah,
so then she a look on God, the look on
Beth's face.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Was devastating.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I know, the idea that there's stuff that happens at
the ranch that she doesn't know about is something that,
you know, would drive her crazy. She's such a like
she needs to be in control of everything, She needs
to understand everything. She always needs to be the smartest
one in the room. And for this big revelation that
everybody else knows about and she doesn't. You know, Casey
(20:40):
knows about it, Jamie knows about it, Rip knows about it,
and she's the only one who doesn't. That's a huge betrayal.
So what does she do. She of course goes first
thing and confronts her dad about it and says, hey,
you know, do you have anything to tell me about
the train station?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, and then basically says you know, she it was
almost repetitive. Jamie knows about this. Jamie knows about this.
So the only thing to do with Jamie is to
then take him to the train station.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, and it sets up this just nasty cliffhanger, which
is Jamie and Sarah are saying, hey, maybe we should
get some professionals involved to handle this problem, and at
the same time, Beth and JD are saying, hey, wait
a second, maybe Jamie should go where we take people
(21:41):
who threaten this ranch and need to go away.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The moment with Jamie and Sarah real quick was so
interesting to me because it's a moment in their relationship
that I think is pivotal where he actually out paces
her in terms of mal intent. She's sort of been
leading him on this dark path and he says, do
you know anybody? And she's thinking defense and she says,
(22:04):
you get you know, security detail and he's the one
who initiates. I'm not talking about defense, I'm talking about offense.
I'm talking about killing them.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
It's really fascinating. You know, we've seen efforts on the
duttons lives. We've seen attempts on John's life, on Casey's life,
on Beth's life. This one, it feels like there's these
two armies sort of gearing up and they're pointing the
barrels of their guns right at each other. So I
really can't wait to see how that explosive conflict plays
(22:36):
out in the second half of season five. It's a
really exciting brewing conflict. Also, boy, you hate the timing
of it. Jamie and Sarah basically collude to hire a
hitman right when Rip leaves town, Right when Rip gets
on a truck and heads to Texas. A lot of
(22:57):
John's soldiers are spread very thin. And you know, that's
a nasty it's a nasty situation. John spending half his
time in Helena. He's running around. The last time he
got his ass shot to pieces was because he was
in a you know, he was driving between two places
and stopped helping perfectly nice lady with a flat tire.
(23:17):
He's in a very vulnerable position and his best soldiers
are spread very thin.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Mmmm. That's all I have to say about that. It's
not looking good.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's not looking good for anybody. This is a mess.
You know, in a civil war, you're gonna have casualties
on both sides. And I'm really curious to see how
this thing plays out. And you know, I'm kind of
grateful that we're in a whole different state. It sounds
like the Montana is about to turn into a fucking,
you know, shooting gallery. I'm really glad we're in Texas.
(23:49):
Give me the cold, Give me the cold where no
competing squads of hitmen or shooting each other.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
It's a great time to be in Texas, and it's
a great time not to be a member of a family.
It's just great.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Okay. I'm very excited to speak with Wes. Let's get
into it with the man himself. Jen and I feel
(24:27):
so lucky, so blessed to have with us in the
studio today, our dear friend, an actor I've been a
fan of for years, and I feel so lucky to
be able to call a friend for about five years. Now,
we've got the infamous Jamie Dutton. It's Wes Bentley. Wes,
thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Hi, Wes, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Guys, we got to speak last year on this podcast
after season four aired. We got to sort of have
a conversation catching the audience up to your experience of
working on the first four seasons of Yellowstone. I think
of this season as a fascinating journey for Jamie. It
feels like a bit of an aside to Jamie. We've
(25:09):
never seen before will you talk a little bit about
the experience of working on season five and what's been
different than the past four years.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Well, a lot, it's been different. By the end of
the half season, it's you know, before it it's been
a lot of taking it for Jamie and for Wes
as Jamie, you know, taken on a lot to bring,
you know, just pile on the weight and deal with it.
And it's been a hard you know, it's been as
I've talked about before, it's really tricky. You know, it's
(25:37):
hard as an actor to just continually do that for
years and despite all your instincts fighting it and just
as a human being. And so this season that's that
you see the beginning of the change of that and
and actually in a deeper way than I even read
initially when I first read the scripts and saw where
we were heading. It's I think there's more depth with
(25:59):
than just Jamie. He's getting used again. I think Jamie
sees an opportunity and so there's a piece of Jamie
that's always been there but in benefit to the Duttons,
which is his schemes, and now he's going to use
those schemes, possibly against the Duttons. So it's it's an
interesting rebound. It's I don't think it's a totally conscious
one maybe by him. You know, this is he's a
(26:21):
bit stunned after everything that happened at the end of
last season and having to you know, kill his own
father and you know, and try to go back to
the Duttons and try to be what they need him
to be. And I think he's in a weird like state,
you know, half a lie of half half just numb,
and so you know, I think he sees an opportunity
in Sarah and in market equities and in people who
(26:45):
he thinks see his usefulness.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Do you feel like his having to kill his own
dad sort of laid the groundwork for that mental state,
and then Sarah out would coming in is sort of
the engine that he could you know, hook his car too,
so to speak, that sort of propels this whole movement forward.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I definitely do. I think. You know, we talked a
lot about Beth's moment for where she started to hate
Jamie and and we've lived through that and that is
a horrible thing. But this, I think is Jamie's you
know moments where he realizes, oh he and whatever love
I have for her, hoped to have for her forever
(27:30):
and he did for Beth. I think he had more
hope for that than even Beth ever did. And her
forcing him to do that was that moment of she
not only doesn't love me and never will, she hates
me and wants me dead for real. And I think
Jamie wasn't fully, It wasn't clicking when Jamie that she's
really after him for all these years until that moment,
(27:51):
and that trauma in doing that, I think is the
final break for him with her. And now I think
it part of him wants her, you know, to pay back.
I guess he wants some kind of payback, and maybe more,
I think it has broken something in him further than
was already broken.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
When we last spoke last season. I talked a lot
about this idea of repression. Like so many of the
characters on this show, it's about this expression, it's about
this release, and Jamie seems so under control, he seems
so buttoned up. Repression has been a sort of necessity
for him for his entire life. He's had to repress
(28:32):
his impulses in service of this family. So talk about
how that relates so specifically with Sarah because you've kind
of got Jamie world this season. You have all of
these incredible scenes with Sarah with Dawn. Talk about the
freedom that that relationship offers this character. The experience of
(28:53):
doing those scenes. Is there a kind of release a
Catharsis that Jamie's never had before?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Definitely, And I think it comes across in the scene
where he is sharing with Sarah that what he really
wanted to be. And Jamie, like you said, he's been
buried under what John wants him to be and whatever
obligation he felt to Beth and to his brothers. So
whatever Jamie is and whoever Jamie is, he has no idea.
(29:20):
And it seems to be that Sarah starts to coax
that out, that she's not just like sleeping with him.
She's pulling out this guy that she can see buried
under him. And Don is incredible. Don brought more than
what's on the page, and there's a lot on the
page to work with, and Don she's an incredible actor.
I was really excited when we started kicking it off
(29:41):
because I saw something there to really latch onto, and
she was bringing something different for me and for Jamie
and so you know, yeah, I was discovering you know,
as we halfway through the shooting it, I was at
home and I actually had a lot of time off
as we went through all the stuff we had to
go through shooting the show, and I was just sitting
in this like in the middle of the woods by
(30:02):
myself for a couple of weeks, and I had that
gave me time to really ruminate on these scenes that
I found very challenging because they were opening parts of
Jamie I hadn't opened yet, so you know, I wasn't
prepared for that, and I really was nervous. I wanted
to get it right. I wanted to meet Taylor and
go beyond him if I could, And so luckily I
had those that time, and I just sat there and
it just was hitting me how much was underneath all
(30:24):
that stuff that I've been playing, that Jamie's been playing.
He's been playing for longer. And so, yeah, you know,
don Sarah, the way she's doing it's not like your
typical story of being manipulated and used, because I don't
know if it's that clear. I think Jamie knows what's
going on, right, I mean, he's been through enough of these.
He's smart guy. He sees what's coming. Now it's like, well,
(30:45):
maybe I want to do that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
There's this really amazing moment in that scene because when
Jeff was talking, I was thinking about that exact same
scene and you it almost looked like something that I
don't even know if you're aware of how how much
you did it. But Sarah says to you, your father's
jealous of you, and you see, I'm going to talk
(31:09):
about Jamie like he's a real person and you don't
play him.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Jamie lights up and hooks onto that in a way,
and it's and then you I'm going to talk about
you know, you like leaned in and you like came
closer to her, And it was such this moment. I
get goosebumps talking about it because I've had moments in
my life where I'm so desperate for someone's approval and
(31:34):
they will not give it to me, and I just
can't get out from underneath them. And that moment when
somebody says you don't need to get out from underneath them,
You've already transcended them or your own you know, or
the fact that they're just jealous of you, or whatever,
and it is this moment where you're like, you're free.
(31:54):
It's like the ceiling has been taken off.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
That's a great insight. I'm glad it came across. You know,
you don't know these things. And it was one of
those that was one of those scenes where everything don
was doing was was doing that she was delivering in
such a way that was like cracking open those things.
Like you said, we've all had. I think most people
have had that moment where they're like, yeah, they're buried
under something and finally someone sets you free by going
(32:18):
you're imagining that it's the opposite. Yeah, and your mind's low.
And for Jamie that's beyond more than just his ego.
That could mean his whole livelihood. Everything he wanted, which
is to really be away from them and be powerful
in his own right, was just sitting there waiting because, Oh,
the guy I was afraid of is actually afraid of me.
(32:40):
Oh I'm strong, Oh I'm smart.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Right, if I may briefly step outside the world of Yellowstone,
if I dare step outside the world of Yellstone Wes,
what's up man? How you doing? What are you excited about?
I want people to know, people know you as Jamie
and people have a relationship to you as Jamie, and
I guess I just also want to make sure that
the audience out there gets to know and love you
(33:07):
the way that we do as a person of many dimensions.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yes all two of them. I like acting and I
like soccer. No one was hearing me talk about soccer,
but yes, I love soccer. I'm surprised when I meet
fans or people who know me that they they're surprised
that I smile and laugh and make jokes. But it's
also one of the best parts of this job because
I realize I'm doing my job if they think that,
because that's that is me most of the time. I
(33:32):
love to you know, I started in acting as a
loving improv comedy, so we did I did improv competitions
with my with some buddies. They were really good and
funnier than me, but that you know, I my first
thrill was making people laugh. I love doing that on set,
you know, having a good laugh with everybody, especially on
it on a heavy day, if it's not too distracting
to to just just to let remind ourselves that we're
(33:56):
people and all that. And but yeah, man, I'm also
I love being a dad, you know, Like I have
two great kids who are at great ages twelve and eight,
and they're very active, and I'm very active. I get
out and I play soccer a lot. I mean a
lot of different people over the world. I don't tend
to play pickup games wherever I go, just because it's
(34:16):
not just soccer. It's culture too. It's it's it's neighborhoods,
it's it's families, it's you know, it's all that. So yeah, again,
I mean those are a couple of my things. I
love being active, and I think it's just surprising when
people see me actually laugh and smile and make a joke.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So Whatjen was talking earlier about the kind of disconnect
between Teeter and Gin and how strange it is, which
is huge, by the way, Yeah, people sometimes don't recognize
her because you know, it's such a transformative performance. And
Jamie's the same way, Like the scowl and the furrowed
brow is the weight.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
That character change holds.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
When I see you outside the world of that, it
is you. You have just sort of effervescent lightness to you.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
You know, Thanks man, you too YouTube, but you don't
have to do all the scowling. You can bring it
to the work.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I just get to be a fucking idiot all the time.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
That's fun though, That's fun.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
And by the way, Jen, you're amazing. I love watching
both of you are amazing. But you know you're both
so transformative. And Jefferson, what a path for Jimmy that
I think people are just loving. And my brother, by
the way, I've told you just before, he's you're still
his favorite character, and I'm trying so hard to win
him over, but he just doesn't like me as much
as you.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And you know, in my life really likes Rip. You know,
my girlfriend's favorite character, my mom's favorite characters, Rip. My
grandma you know, calls me to check in on Rip.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Oh my my nieces, well, one of my nieces told
me that Beth's her hero, which is a really complicated
feeling for Wes and Jamie to go through.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Wes, yay, Wes, besides I mean soccer and being hilario
and I can vouch that you are actually genuinely one
of the funniest people on set in the whole three
times we've gotten to be in the same room together
while we go off to shoot. Yeah, like different scenes.
When I ran into in Hamilton, Miss Year, we were
(36:16):
talking about horseback riding, and I was, I don't know
if the fans know that you came into the show
with more riding prowess than a lot of the other actors,
and the audience never gets to see that.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
I mean never, And it's kind of like a pointy can.
Like you know, I grew up watching westerns with my dad.
I wanted to do westerns like that was kind of
one of my goals. I mean, that's things changed. But
so when I you know, and especially with Taylor's stuff.
I was really excited about Taylor stuff before I met
him and had asked to work on his thing. And
then yeah, you want to be in Western with Taylor Sheridan, Yes,
(36:56):
I do. Where's my horse? What a suit?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
A huh?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
They're riding horses because you know, we went off the
cowboy camp and you know a few of the guys
never rode and and I had horses and I rode,
and yeah, Jefferson was one of my but you're not
supposed to have been written stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
It's so funny, but I feel like this is so
dramaturgically valid because you poor Wes is stuck, just like
Jamie is kind of ripped away from the ranch, sent
off to Harvard Law when he's a kid, kept away
from this beautiful cathartic You know how much real estate
in Yellowstone is spent talking about the beautiful experience of
(37:40):
riding out in nature, and Jamie never gets to touch.
Jamie is sort of.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Oh no, ke is cage. I know that I get
to read these amazing scenes where how you guys just
wax poetic about yeah, like you said, Montana and the beauty.
I'm flipping through his pages like, wow, that's going to
be a beautiful scene. And I turn it and all
I see is a someone's dragging me down the hallway,
kicking me in the face, and I'm crying. Oh okay,
(38:07):
shit real.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Jamie sits sad.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
No snacks on set that day, no other beneficial but
they just keep piling on to make it miserab.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Where is it incredibly tight tie, you know, barely swallow.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
You know what's crazy too, is these horses are some
of the best horses I will ever get a chance
to ride, because they are They're not just regular set horses, right,
you guys know you're the ones who have to ride them.
They are award winning, like crazy trained horses, and so
that made it especially exciting, especially when were like learning
how to cut, Like I got really into cutting. I
(38:42):
thought I was pretty good at it. It seemed like
they said I was good. To the point where I
was telling Jim when we ran into each other, was like,
I'll maybe go do this competition. It didn't work out
for me, but I love all that stuff. Yeah. I
was really really bumped, and to the point where I
won't even go ride, you know, on my off days
because it just don't want to get the hopes up
or whatever that you know, this might change. I think
(39:03):
my ship sailed though, Wes.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
As always, it is an absolute joy to speak with you.
We feel so so grateful for your time. You're one
of my favorite actors in the world. So thanks for
five years of this incredible performance. Thanks for five years
of your friendship. I treasure it dearly.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Oh, thank you so much, And that's really nice to you.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Wes Bentley. You are one of my favorite people, and
thank you so much for taking the time to talk
to us today. And I can say from me and
the entire Yellowstone family. We cannot wait to see what
happens next.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
It really is starting to line up like I don't
know how everybody could survive this. It's starting to feel
like somebody very close to us is not going to
survive this. But all is not lost. While we wait
for the second half of Yellowstone Season five, I am
so stoked to dig into the journey of nineteen teen
(40:00):
twenty three and the only Official Yellowstone podcast is going
to be right here with you the whole way.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
That's right, So listeners, do not forget to subscribe and
listen to the Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
See you next time. Thanks for being here, Bye guys.
The Official Yellowstone Podcast is a production of one oh
one Studios and Paramount. This episode was produced by Scott Stone.
Brandon Goetchis is the head of Audio for one oh
one Studios. Steve Rasis is the executive vice president of
the Paramount Global Podcast Group. Special thanks to Megan Marcus,
(40:37):
Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow, Jason Red and Whitney
Baxter from Paramount, and of course David Glasser, David Huckin,
and Michelle Newman from one oh one Studios
Hello, Yellowstone fans, It's Jefferson White with you again, Jimmy
Hurts from on the show, and can I just say
that it is it's good to be back. And I'm
not just talking about the podcast. I think that we're
all kind of reeling from this mid season finale. I
cannot wait to dive into it and unpack it with
the one and only Jen Landon aka Teeter.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hey Jeff and speaking for the entire Yellowstone community because
I can. I just got to say, it's really good
to have you home, even if that home is at
the four sixes. It was so heartwarming to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
And we might be seeing each other soon because it
looks like Teeter's going to Texas, so I'm going to
keep my eye out for you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
How crazy was this episode?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Really wild? An episode with these amazing contrasts, right, so
there's total loyalty being demonstrated and also just devastating betrayal.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, like from Young Rips branding and the commitment of
that to the ranch, to Jamie's knife in the back.
I mean, it was just.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Crazy, unbelievable. So we're gonna cover all that. Plus we
are very very lucky. We're gonna talk to the man
of the hour, Wes Bentley Jamie Dutton and maybe get
a glimpse into what's next for Jamie.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm flipping through his pages, like, Wow, that's gonna be
a beautiful scene in that turn it, and all I
see is someone's dragging me down the hallway, kicking me
in the face and I'm crying.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
We're gonna hear more from Wesson a little bit, but
first we're gonna take a very quick break.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Jeff, do your parents ever call you after an episode
to talk to you about what they didn't like that
you did, or just to tell you maybe that they
would have preferred that you do it slightly differently.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's devastating to hear. Luckily, no, they don't. Because I
haven't been in any of the episodes.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Jeff, I think today's episode is really going to be
about you. I have half a mind to interview you
as the guest because Jimmy does come back with a bang.
I loved all of those scenes between you and Emily.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh thank you. That was a real It was an
incredible treat to get to do that stuff with Kat Kelly,
and I'm also just excited for what the future holds.
I'm incredibly excited to get to work with my friends again, because,
let me tell you, it was a long, long half
season being banished, banished from the ranch. Speaking of banishment,
you know, this is also a huge Jamie episode, and
(02:55):
Jamie seems to have perhaps been pushed so close to
the edge that he's maybe finally snapped. And luckily we're
going to hear it from the horse's mouth, as it were.
We've got Wes Bentley as a guest today. I'm so
so excited to dig into this stuff with Wes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I actually this was my favorite season for the Jamie
character and Wes the actor. This might the last two
episodes might have been my favorite two episodes, and the
scene with Beth in this episode was probably my favorite
scene of all time for him.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I can't help but be reminded of the fight between
Jamie and Beth in season one. There's this like blowout
fight they have in the barn that I think comes
to blows and this scene really bookended that. But both
of these characters have changed so much, you know, the events,
the events of the last five seasons have changed them
so much such that this is a much deeper richer,
(03:54):
sort of nastier conflict that's digging up years and year
of resentment and anger and trauma that these characters have
shared or failed to share. So it's really really rich,
exciting stuff. I can't wait to talk to Wes about it.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, so before we do that, should we just jump
to the top and take everyone through this episode? Let's
do it?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So, I was great, why not start at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's a very good place to start. So, you know,
we start, We start in a cheery scene, a body
being dumped at the train station, you know, a real,
real cheerful moment. I thought it was so interesting the
dynamic that's being established there in terms of the relationship
with the train station. The way that Josh Lucas sort
(04:46):
of was whatever he was going through in that truck
as young Rip and young Lloyd we're dumping that body,
was particularly interesting to me. I wondered if you had
thoughts about that.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, it's fascinating seeing John Dutton long before his evolution,
or maybe mid part way through his evolution, and at
this time in his life he is not ready to imagine,
you know, Beth with anybody. He lost his wife recently,
he's sort of struggling with his own grief. He's not
ready to imagine Beth as an adult, and that that
(05:22):
takes him a while. It takes him a while to
come around to the idea of Ripping Beth being together.
I don't know if you remember, but in season one
he also says to Beth, quit fucking the help, honey,
and then a few seasons later he's calling rip his son.
You know. So there's a lot of evolution that happens
over the events of the show Yellowstone that the character
has not come to yet.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, he he also dropped. There's these one liners. I mean,
one of the things that Taylor does so well is
he writes these sort of these truths that will play
out within dialogue and they and they feels entirely natural.
But when he talks about he says, protect the protect
(06:05):
yourself or the ranch itself, and you have no idea
how much fighting you'll do. It feels like a foreshadowing
and a looking back at the history of the ranch
at the same time and the dynamic that plays out there.
And he also says another one that I wrote down,
which was you will have a home till the day
you die or this ranch is no more and that
(06:26):
is something worth fighting for. And I thought that was
something again that not only was really beautiful, but is
this sort of theme that is played out historically in
this theme that plays out moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, it's funny this this timeline, this sort of you know,
Young JD. Young Rip timeline is in between. You're totally right,
it's this middle child timeline. We've seen events that happen
before it, and we've seen events that happen after it,
So you're right. His words kind of both prophecy the
future and like sort of are a are a story
(07:01):
about everything that's brought us to this point. It really
echoes in both directions forward and backwards in time.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, and then there's this very ominous thing, ominous moment
where Rip is about to be branded. John steps away
and you know says, I know what choice you'll make tomorrow,
and then he says to Young Rip, I didn't know
I had a choice, and Young you always have a choice.
(07:28):
But you know, basically, if you make one choice, you
go back to Wyoming where we just were, and you
don't come back. So it's it's it's loyal to your death.
So while we do have this sort of I mean,
at least I do from within the world, have this
sort of romantic notion about this branding thing because of
what it meant in terms of joining a family. And
(07:50):
that's what it felt like when I was within the scene.
Certainly looking at it from the outside is rather terrifying.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I mean, oh yeah, there was a choice, a choice,
because otherwise, you know, you've seen a murder, right, so
that the equation for the ranch is like, Okay, you
can work for us forever, or you are a witness
to us doing murder and disposing of the body.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
It's the same kind of choice that Jimmy was presented
with in season one. You know, Rip says, Okay, you
can accept this brand and come work on the Yellowstone,
or I'll send you to jail for the rest of
your life. You know, like it's sort of the like
kind of it's a sort of it's a barely a choice.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, you have free will fate. Okay, Well, onto
cheerier mutters. I have Jimmy and Emily with thirty seven
exclamation points written down in my notepad because when we
jump to you, I was so overwhelmed with joy and
Jeff I got to tell you are so you are
(08:51):
such an amazing actor, and that is that is apparent
in every single scene that you do. But there was
something I looked at you in these scenes that were
set at the four sixes, and it was a slightly
different version of the Jimmy that I was expecting. In
the Jimmy that I had known, you were a cowboy.
(09:15):
You were a four sixes cowboy, and I don't know
how you did it, but it was layered into everything
that you did, and it was just fantastic. Jeff, looking
at some looking at that four sixes footage, I couldn't
help but notice that some of the faces were faces
(09:38):
of people that I had met, not on set, but
at rodeo events and whatnot, one of those being true.
And I was wondering if you could talk a little
bit about all of the four six's cowboys that were
in those scenes and what it was like working with them,
because I don't know if the audience he knows this,
(10:00):
and I'm not even one hundred percent sure that a
lot of those people that we see in those four
six's uniforms are the four Six's cowboys, if not all
of them.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right, that's exactly right. It's a real pleasure. Now I've
gotten to spend some time with those guys, I'm getting
to know them better. So you're talking about Trueberson. His
brother Dusty Berson is also around. They're the wagon bosses
of two of these different sort of big operations down
at the four sixes. But a lot of these guys
have just become friends. So in season four I had
some scenes with Will Bodeker, who's an amazing cowboy and
(10:31):
also an incredible musician. Like, all these guys are so
multifaceted in a way that just kind of blows me
away every time. So this time we also got to
hear Will Bodeker his music, which was such a gift.
So also down there, we've got Casey Green, We've got Brewster,
We've got basically a whole squad. Zach Peters has been
(10:53):
taking care of me. It's also like, Yeah, these guys
are the best in the world at this They're the
sort of real life version of the Bunk House Boys,
you know, they're like the Seal Team six of cowboys.
They are absolutely incredible, and they're also incredibly patient with
me when they don't need to be, you know, I'm
an asshole coming from out of town, sort of messing
(11:15):
up their work day. Functionally speaking, like the days we
shoot at the Sixes are usually them working and our
film crew kind of coming in and just trying to
capture it and throwing me into the mix. Let's step
away for a second and when we come back, we'll
dive into the rest of the episode. So huge episode.
(11:47):
We spent that time down in Texas. Then we're back
up to Montana where we see the other side of this,
which is these cowboys getting ready to send this massive
herd down to Texas.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, we know they're going down to the Panhandle of Texas.
And then immediately after that, there's a few really moving scenes.
There's the dynamic with John and Monica where he basically
tells her about this other house for them to live
in and that he needs their help, and Monica basically
(12:18):
just says to him, all you had to do was
ask in terms of getting what you need. I found
that to be very simple and poignant. And again out
of John's mouth there comes another one of those lines
that just sort of lands on you, which is it
was something along the lines of sometimes he thinks that
people have to suffer so that they can teach the
(12:41):
next generation of sufferers how to handle it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, maybe God gives us suffering so we can pass
along the knowledge of how we survived it to the
next generation of sufferers.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's a photographic memory right there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, it was so moving, really, And you know, as
we speak about generations of sufferers, what have we been
watching in the extended Taylor verse, but generations of sufferers.
You know, Tait is now the youngest generation of sufferers,
and we've seen him face incredible adversity in his you know,
(13:14):
twelve thirteen, fourteen years of life. You know, in his
young life. It really is the Dutton family as violence
hunts them across generations. It really is generations of sufferers.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And John also says to Monica, the ranch can't be
tates of the ranch isn't here. And again it's one
of those moments where Taylor has in eighteen eighty three,
you know, and throughout this season of Yellowstone in particular,
been saying, Hey, this is how this is the seventh generation,
this is where the ranch is going to go, this
(13:46):
is what's going to happen. And it feels like we're
getting so close to it.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, and so there's this really you know, as everybody's
sort of getting ready to go down to Texas, there's
these really, as you said, a series of really lovely scenes,
including the next scene between John and his son Casey.
These two guys who aren't really talkers, right, These guys
are doers. They're not necessarily the most emotionally expressive guys.
(14:16):
But we see this sequence where John hugs his son
and tells him he loves him.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
In the interaction immediately following, Casey says to Rip, you'd
think he's the one leaving, and Rip tells him he is.
And there was something so sad to me about saying
by without actually even being able to say goodbye.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It's hard for these guys. Yeah, it really like there's
sort of reluctance to say the stuff. But you know,
we've heard it over and over again in season four,
Rip Tails, Jimmy cowboys don't say goodbye, we see you
later until we're in that fucking ground. There's this kind
of quiet like acceptance of their responsibility. But in some
ways I think that's also denial. You know, there's this
(14:57):
sort of inability to express these deep feelings or perhaps
the sort of recognition that expressing them doesn't necessarily make
them any easier, doesn't make them go away, It doesn't
solve the problem.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, so complicated. What's not complicated is what John says
to Claire in the car about how he's going to
handle the Jamie situation, which is menace, and Claire says,
I don't know how to fight with menace.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I love it when John says this shit that could
be coming out of the mouth of Jacob Dutton, Harrison
Ford's character in nineteen twenty three could easily be coming
out of the mouth of any of these generations. I'll
teach you how to fight with menace. It's such a
sort of the battles they've been waging, they've been waging
for so so long, but this time, you know, it's
(15:48):
a threat coming from inside the house. It's a threat
coming from inside his own family. And as we as
we learn this is like a gloves off episode for
Jamie like we've never seen before. He's using every tool
he has to tear down his own family, and he's
got a lot of tools. But before we get there,
we've also got a really lovely sequence in the bunk house.
(16:08):
We've got this beautiful sort of series of good byes.
We're headed down to Texas. There's a lot of talk
about how cold Texas is in the winter. It's great.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, that was sort of a sad moment on set. Granted,
we have no idea what's going to happen. I'm not
just saying that because I'm saying we can't tease anything audience.
Jeff and I truly do.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Not know what is going to happen. I think would
tell us.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, that was a sad moment because in the event
that we are separated for a period of time, while
we are so happy, Jeff and I cannot say that
enough to be able to be closer and potentially in
scenes with you. There were some good byes that that
(16:59):
felt that felt hard.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, a lot of goodbyes. It really everybody who's leaving
has these relationships, you know, Beth and Rip torn apart,
Abby and Ryan torn apart, Walker and Laramie torn Apart,
Teeter and Colby. Oh my god, this has been such
a sort of juicy, slow burned relationship for see. I think,
(17:23):
you know, listening to fans on social media, I think
everybody's hungry for details about how this thing works, and
we only get these little glimpses into it. But this
episode a a real left hook, emotional left hook knocked
me on my ass.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, it was sad saying goodbye to him. I loved
that Teeter. I love that Taylor had written for Teter
to tell Colby that she loved him on the inside.
I can just tell you that it was this very like,
it was this very neat experience because Teeter is a cowboy.
Teeter is what the Ryan character talks about. Cowboying will
(18:03):
always come first, you know, that is the thing. You
will go anywhere for it. And so there's this excitement
of being able to do some cowboy shit, some real
intense cowboy shit, and at the same time, there's there's
sadness over saying goodbye and being able to love somebody
(18:24):
and not knowing where it will go, and it's and
it's just in this moment maybe yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So So, you know, speaking of relationships, Sarah and Jamie
cooking along that sort of Machiavellians Josom is increasingly frightening.
I don't want to dig too much into the Jamie
stuff in this episode, because we got to talk to
Wes Bentley about it, and why not hear it from
the man himself instead of hearing me and you rave
(18:53):
about him. So obviously let's let's just run through it
real quick because we're going to talk to Wes about
it too. But that Jamie, you know, comes to confront
Jamie about having brought the impeachment hearing, and it's been
a so far successful first step. So we learned that
the Montana State House voted sixty seven to thirty three
to bring that impeachment hearing. So now John Dutton's going
(19:13):
to have to face this tribunal. Beth comes to confront
Jamie about it, and Jamie, to his credit, fights back.
He has been empowered, maybe by this relationship with Sarah,
maybe by just being pushed a little too far. He
fights back in a big way.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, this was my favorite Jamie West scene. He was amazing, and.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Whatever, I know that I feel like the Jamie character
gets so much. You know, some people are so angry
at him, but I love him, and I was so
relieved that he had this moment where he just let
it rip.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So one of the big revelations of this argument between
Jamie and Beth this catastrophic argument where they're saying things
that can't be unsaid is Jamie tells Beth about the
train station and she's learning about it for the first time. Yeah,
so then she a look on God, the look on
Beth's face.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Was devastating.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I know, the idea that there's stuff that happens at
the ranch that she doesn't know about is something that,
you know, would drive her crazy. She's such a like
she needs to be in control of everything, She needs
to understand everything. She always needs to be the smartest
one in the room. And for this big revelation that
everybody else knows about and she doesn't. You know, Casey
(20:40):
knows about it, Jamie knows about it, Rip knows about it,
and she's the only one who doesn't. That's a huge betrayal.
So what does she do. She of course goes first
thing and confronts her dad about it and says, hey,
you know, do you have anything to tell me about
the train station?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, and then basically says you know, she it was
almost repetitive. Jamie knows about this. Jamie knows about this.
So the only thing to do with Jamie is to
then take him to the train station.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, and it sets up this just nasty cliffhanger, which
is Jamie and Sarah are saying, hey, maybe we should
get some professionals involved to handle this problem, and at
the same time, Beth and JD are saying, hey, wait
a second, maybe Jamie should go where we take people
(21:41):
who threaten this ranch and need to go away.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The moment with Jamie and Sarah real quick was so
interesting to me because it's a moment in their relationship
that I think is pivotal where he actually out paces
her in terms of mal intent. She's sort of been
leading him on this dark path and he says, do
you know anybody? And she's thinking defense and she says,
(22:04):
you get you know, security detail and he's the one
who initiates. I'm not talking about defense, I'm talking about offense.
I'm talking about killing them.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
It's really fascinating. You know, we've seen efforts on the
duttons lives. We've seen attempts on John's life, on Casey's life,
on Beth's life. This one, it feels like there's these
two armies sort of gearing up and they're pointing the
barrels of their guns right at each other. So I
really can't wait to see how that explosive conflict plays
(22:36):
out in the second half of season five. It's a
really exciting brewing conflict. Also, boy, you hate the timing
of it. Jamie and Sarah basically collude to hire a
hitman right when Rip leaves town, Right when Rip gets
on a truck and heads to Texas. A lot of
(22:57):
John's soldiers are spread very thin. And you know, that's
a nasty it's a nasty situation. John spending half his
time in Helena. He's running around. The last time he
got his ass shot to pieces was because he was
in a you know, he was driving between two places
and stopped helping perfectly nice lady with a flat tire.
(23:17):
He's in a very vulnerable position and his best soldiers
are spread very thin.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Mmmm. That's all I have to say about that. It's
not looking good.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's not looking good for anybody. This is a mess.
You know, in a civil war, you're gonna have casualties
on both sides. And I'm really curious to see how
this thing plays out. And you know, I'm kind of
grateful that we're in a whole different state. It sounds
like the Montana is about to turn into a fucking,
you know, shooting gallery. I'm really glad we're in Texas.
(23:49):
Give me the cold, Give me the cold where no
competing squads of hitmen or shooting each other.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
It's a great time to be in Texas, and it's
a great time not to be a member of a family.
It's just great.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Okay. I'm very excited to speak with Wes. Let's get
into it with the man himself. Jen and I feel
(24:27):
so lucky, so blessed to have with us in the
studio today, our dear friend, an actor I've been a
fan of for years, and I feel so lucky to
be able to call a friend for about five years. Now,
we've got the infamous Jamie Dutton. It's Wes Bentley. Wes,
thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Hi, Wes, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Guys, we got to speak last year on this podcast
after season four aired. We got to sort of have
a conversation catching the audience up to your experience of
working on the first four seasons of Yellowstone. I think
of this season as a fascinating journey for Jamie. It
feels like a bit of an aside to Jamie. We've
(25:09):
never seen before will you talk a little bit about
the experience of working on season five and what's been
different than the past four years.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Well, a lot, it's been different. By the end of
the half season, it's you know, before it it's been
a lot of taking it for Jamie and for Wes
as Jamie, you know, taken on a lot to bring,
you know, just pile on the weight and deal with it.
And it's been a hard you know, it's been as
I've talked about before, it's really tricky. You know, it's
(25:37):
hard as an actor to just continually do that for
years and despite all your instincts fighting it and just
as a human being. And so this season that's that
you see the beginning of the change of that and
and actually in a deeper way than I even read
initially when I first read the scripts and saw where
we were heading. It's I think there's more depth with
(25:59):
than just Jamie. He's getting used again. I think Jamie
sees an opportunity and so there's a piece of Jamie
that's always been there but in benefit to the Duttons,
which is his schemes, and now he's going to use
those schemes, possibly against the Duttons. So it's it's an
interesting rebound. It's I don't think it's a totally conscious
one maybe by him. You know, this is he's a
(26:21):
bit stunned after everything that happened at the end of
last season and having to you know, kill his own
father and you know, and try to go back to
the Duttons and try to be what they need him
to be. And I think he's in a weird like state,
you know, half a lie of half half just numb,
and so you know, I think he sees an opportunity
in Sarah and in market equities and in people who
(26:45):
he thinks see his usefulness.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Do you feel like his having to kill his own
dad sort of laid the groundwork for that mental state,
and then Sarah out would coming in is sort of
the engine that he could you know, hook his car too,
so to speak, that sort of propels this whole movement forward.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I definitely do. I think. You know, we talked a
lot about Beth's moment for where she started to hate
Jamie and and we've lived through that and that is
a horrible thing. But this, I think is Jamie's you
know moments where he realizes, oh he and whatever love
I have for her, hoped to have for her forever
(27:30):
and he did for Beth. I think he had more
hope for that than even Beth ever did. And her
forcing him to do that was that moment of she
not only doesn't love me and never will, she hates
me and wants me dead for real. And I think
Jamie wasn't fully, It wasn't clicking when Jamie that she's
really after him for all these years until that moment,
(27:51):
and that trauma in doing that, I think is the
final break for him with her. And now I think
it part of him wants her, you know, to pay back.
I guess he wants some kind of payback, and maybe more,
I think it has broken something in him further than
was already broken.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
When we last spoke last season. I talked a lot
about this idea of repression. Like so many of the
characters on this show, it's about this expression, it's about
this release, and Jamie seems so under control, he seems
so buttoned up. Repression has been a sort of necessity
for him for his entire life. He's had to repress
(28:32):
his impulses in service of this family. So talk about
how that relates so specifically with Sarah because you've kind
of got Jamie world this season. You have all of
these incredible scenes with Sarah with Dawn. Talk about the
freedom that that relationship offers this character. The experience of
(28:53):
doing those scenes. Is there a kind of release a
Catharsis that Jamie's never had before?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Definitely, And I think it comes across in the scene
where he is sharing with Sarah that what he really
wanted to be. And Jamie, like you said, he's been
buried under what John wants him to be and whatever
obligation he felt to Beth and to his brothers. So
whatever Jamie is and whoever Jamie is, he has no idea.
(29:20):
And it seems to be that Sarah starts to coax
that out, that she's not just like sleeping with him.
She's pulling out this guy that she can see buried
under him. And Don is incredible. Don brought more than
what's on the page, and there's a lot on the
page to work with, and Don she's an incredible actor.
I was really excited when we started kicking it off
(29:41):
because I saw something there to really latch onto, and
she was bringing something different for me and for Jamie
and so you know, yeah, I was discovering you know,
as we halfway through the shooting it, I was at
home and I actually had a lot of time off
as we went through all the stuff we had to
go through shooting the show, and I was just sitting
in this like in the middle of the woods by
(30:02):
myself for a couple of weeks, and I had that
gave me time to really ruminate on these scenes that
I found very challenging because they were opening parts of
Jamie I hadn't opened yet, so you know, I wasn't
prepared for that, and I really was nervous. I wanted
to get it right. I wanted to meet Taylor and
go beyond him if I could, And so luckily I
had those that time, and I just sat there and
it just was hitting me how much was underneath all
(30:24):
that stuff that I've been playing, that Jamie's been playing.
He's been playing for longer. And so, yeah, you know,
don Sarah, the way she's doing it's not like your
typical story of being manipulated and used, because I don't
know if it's that clear. I think Jamie knows what's
going on, right, I mean, he's been through enough of these.
He's smart guy. He sees what's coming. Now it's like, well,
(30:45):
maybe I want to do that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
There's this really amazing moment in that scene because when
Jeff was talking, I was thinking about that exact same
scene and you it almost looked like something that I
don't even know if you're aware of how how much
you did it. But Sarah says to you, your father's
jealous of you, and you see, I'm going to talk
(31:09):
about Jamie like he's a real person and you don't
play him.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Jamie lights up and hooks onto that in a way,
and it's and then you I'm going to talk about
you know, you like leaned in and you like came
closer to her, And it was such this moment. I
get goosebumps talking about it because I've had moments in
my life where I'm so desperate for someone's approval and
(31:34):
they will not give it to me, and I just
can't get out from underneath them. And that moment when
somebody says you don't need to get out from underneath them,
You've already transcended them or your own you know, or
the fact that they're just jealous of you, or whatever,
and it is this moment where you're like, you're free.
(31:54):
It's like the ceiling has been taken off.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
That's a great insight. I'm glad it came across. You know,
you don't know these things. And it was one of
those that was one of those scenes where everything don
was doing was was doing that she was delivering in
such a way that was like cracking open those things.
Like you said, we've all had. I think most people
have had that moment where they're like, yeah, they're buried
under something and finally someone sets you free by going
(32:18):
you're imagining that it's the opposite. Yeah, and your mind's low.
And for Jamie that's beyond more than just his ego.
That could mean his whole livelihood. Everything he wanted, which
is to really be away from them and be powerful
in his own right, was just sitting there waiting because, Oh,
the guy I was afraid of is actually afraid of me.
(32:40):
Oh I'm strong, Oh I'm smart.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Right, if I may briefly step outside the world of Yellowstone,
if I dare step outside the world of Yellstone Wes,
what's up man? How you doing? What are you excited about?
I want people to know, people know you as Jamie
and people have a relationship to you as Jamie, and
I guess I just also want to make sure that
the audience out there gets to know and love you
(33:07):
the way that we do as a person of many dimensions.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yes all two of them. I like acting and I
like soccer. No one was hearing me talk about soccer,
but yes, I love soccer. I'm surprised when I meet
fans or people who know me that they they're surprised
that I smile and laugh and make jokes. But it's
also one of the best parts of this job because
I realize I'm doing my job if they think that,
because that's that is me most of the time. I
(33:32):
love to you know, I started in acting as a
loving improv comedy, so we did I did improv competitions
with my with some buddies. They were really good and
funnier than me, but that you know, I my first
thrill was making people laugh. I love doing that on set,
you know, having a good laugh with everybody, especially on
it on a heavy day, if it's not too distracting
to to just just to let remind ourselves that we're
(33:56):
people and all that. And but yeah, man, I'm also
I love being a dad, you know, Like I have
two great kids who are at great ages twelve and eight,
and they're very active, and I'm very active. I get
out and I play soccer a lot. I mean a
lot of different people over the world. I don't tend
to play pickup games wherever I go, just because it's
(34:16):
not just soccer. It's culture too. It's it's it's neighborhoods,
it's it's families, it's you know, it's all that. So yeah, again,
I mean those are a couple of my things. I
love being active, and I think it's just surprising when
people see me actually laugh and smile and make a joke.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So Whatjen was talking earlier about the kind of disconnect
between Teeter and Gin and how strange it is, which
is huge, by the way, Yeah, people sometimes don't recognize
her because you know, it's such a transformative performance. And
Jamie's the same way, Like the scowl and the furrowed
brow is the weight.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
That character change holds.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
When I see you outside the world of that, it
is you. You have just sort of effervescent lightness to you.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
You know, Thanks man, you too YouTube, but you don't
have to do all the scowling. You can bring it
to the work.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I just get to be a fucking idiot all the time.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
That's fun though, That's fun.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
And by the way, Jen, you're amazing. I love watching
both of you are amazing. But you know you're both
so transformative. And Jefferson, what a path for Jimmy that
I think people are just loving. And my brother, by
the way, I've told you just before, he's you're still
his favorite character, and I'm trying so hard to win
him over, but he just doesn't like me as much
as you.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And you know, in my life really likes Rip. You know,
my girlfriend's favorite character, my mom's favorite characters, Rip. My
grandma you know, calls me to check in on Rip.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Oh my my nieces, well, one of my nieces told
me that Beth's her hero, which is a really complicated
feeling for Wes and Jamie to go through.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Wes, yay, Wes, besides I mean soccer and being hilario
and I can vouch that you are actually genuinely one
of the funniest people on set in the whole three
times we've gotten to be in the same room together
while we go off to shoot. Yeah, like different scenes.
When I ran into in Hamilton, Miss Year, we were
(36:16):
talking about horseback riding, and I was, I don't know
if the fans know that you came into the show
with more riding prowess than a lot of the other actors,
and the audience never gets to see that.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
I mean never, And it's kind of like a pointy can.
Like you know, I grew up watching westerns with my dad.
I wanted to do westerns like that was kind of
one of my goals. I mean, that's things changed. But
so when I you know, and especially with Taylor's stuff.
I was really excited about Taylor stuff before I met
him and had asked to work on his thing. And
then yeah, you want to be in Western with Taylor Sheridan, Yes,
(36:56):
I do. Where's my horse? What a suit?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
A huh?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
They're riding horses because you know, we went off the
cowboy camp and you know a few of the guys
never rode and and I had horses and I rode,
and yeah, Jefferson was one of my but you're not
supposed to have been written stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
It's so funny, but I feel like this is so
dramaturgically valid because you poor Wes is stuck, just like
Jamie is kind of ripped away from the ranch, sent
off to Harvard Law when he's a kid, kept away
from this beautiful cathartic You know how much real estate
in Yellowstone is spent talking about the beautiful experience of
(37:40):
riding out in nature, and Jamie never gets to touch.
Jamie is sort of.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Oh no, ke is cage. I know that I get
to read these amazing scenes where how you guys just
wax poetic about yeah, like you said, Montana and the beauty.
I'm flipping through his pages like, wow, that's going to
be a beautiful scene. And I turn it and all
I see is a someone's dragging me down the hallway,
kicking me in the face, and I'm crying. Oh okay,
(38:07):
shit real.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Jamie sits sad.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
No snacks on set that day, no other beneficial but
they just keep piling on to make it miserab.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Where is it incredibly tight tie, you know, barely swallow.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
You know what's crazy too, is these horses are some
of the best horses I will ever get a chance
to ride, because they are They're not just regular set horses, right,
you guys know you're the ones who have to ride them.
They are award winning, like crazy trained horses, and so
that made it especially exciting, especially when were like learning
how to cut, Like I got really into cutting. I
(38:42):
thought I was pretty good at it. It seemed like
they said I was good. To the point where I
was telling Jim when we ran into each other, was like,
I'll maybe go do this competition. It didn't work out
for me, but I love all that stuff. Yeah. I
was really really bumped, and to the point where I
won't even go ride, you know, on my off days
because it just don't want to get the hopes up
or whatever that you know, this might change. I think
(39:03):
my ship sailed though, Wes.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
As always, it is an absolute joy to speak with you.
We feel so so grateful for your time. You're one
of my favorite actors in the world. So thanks for
five years of this incredible performance. Thanks for five years
of your friendship. I treasure it dearly.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Oh, thank you so much, And that's really nice to you.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Wes Bentley. You are one of my favorite people, and
thank you so much for taking the time to talk
to us today. And I can say from me and
the entire Yellowstone family. We cannot wait to see what
happens next.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
It really is starting to line up like I don't
know how everybody could survive this. It's starting to feel
like somebody very close to us is not going to
survive this. But all is not lost. While we wait
for the second half of Yellowstone Season five, I am
so stoked to dig into the journey of nineteen teen
(40:00):
twenty three and the only Official Yellowstone podcast is going
to be right here with you the whole way.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
That's right, So listeners, do not forget to subscribe and
listen to the Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
See you next time. Thanks for being here, Bye guys.
The Official Yellowstone Podcast is a production of one oh
one Studios and Paramount. This episode was produced by Scott Stone.
Brandon Goetchis is the head of Audio for one oh
one Studios. Steve Rasis is the executive vice president of
the Paramount Global Podcast Group. Special thanks to Megan Marcus,
(40:37):
Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow, Jason Red and Whitney
Baxter from Paramount, and of course David Glasser, David Huckin,
and Michelle Newman from one oh one Studios
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