January 9, 2023 • 39 mins
Violence has always haunted the Dutton family and now we’re taking stock of those we lost. Deadline’s Lynette Rice joins Jefferson and Jen to look back at the heroes and villains that have departed the Yellowstone universe over the decades. From train station drop-offs to shootouts, they recap conflicts on the Dutton ranch that turned deadly and discuss how each death has impacted the plot, audience, and other characters in the series.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello everybody, Thank you so much for joining us again.
It's Jefferson White here, Jimmy Herdstrom on the PARAMOUNTA Networks, Yellowstone,
joined as always by Jen Land and Jen. How you doing,
Thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks Jeff, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I mean this, I gotta say I'm feeling it is
a pretty wild week in the Yellowstone universe here. So
not only in episode five oh eight of Yellowstone. In
season five, episode eight of Yellowstone, we've got danger on
the horizon, danger brewing, this seemingly intractable conflict between Jamie
(00:46):
Dutton and Beth Dutton boiling over, seeming like it's coming
to a head. It seems like it can only end
with terrible, perhaps fatal consequences. Not to mention in episode
three of nineteen twenty three, this absolutely shocking shootout, this
(01:07):
incredible action sequence, really wild time, exciting time to be
a Yellowstone fan.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
So, Jeff, what you're saying is the theme of today's
episode is death. It's going to be really cheery, and
later on we are going to be talking about the
five most significant deaths on Yellowstone, and we're going to
be doing that with our guest. We have Lynette Rice,
who's going to be joining us. She is a senior
reporter at Deadline. She's a huge fan of the show
(01:37):
and jeff She's a New York Times bestselling author.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, you've got your picks. I've got my picks. Lynette's
got her picks. I'm extremely excited to dig into it,
hash it out, get to the bottom of this right
after this.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Okay, we're back.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I'm super excited, as morbid as that sounds to talk
about death and all of the most significant and my
favorite ones.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And we are going to introduce you to our guests.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Now.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
This is Lynette Rice, again, a senior reporter Deadline, huge
fan of the show.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Hi, Lynnette, Hello, Hello, so great to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We're super excited to have you.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
I do want to ask Jefferson, have you ever asked
her to do one episode fully as Teeter? I mean,
she's not allowed to sound like Jen, she can only
be Teeter.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I've been begging her since the beginning. We did one
and then the producer called it incomprehensible.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Which I thought was a little little rude.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I was going to say that, actually notes came down
the line that I was incomprehensible on this show, but
not because of my annunciation, just because I told stories
like that Sleep with Me podcast guy, which the whole
point is they go nowhere.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
That would be a classic episode.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Lynnette.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
We feel it so lucky to have you with us
today as an expert all things, you know, entertainment and television,
and I'm excited to see you know, Jen and I
are a little bit biased in our opinions about the show,
so I'm excited for a little objective journalism. I'm excited
for a you know, a third party perspective and a
little bit of you know, rationality infused into this.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Sure, I guess I could bring that objectivity. I'll be
objective about the way Kevin Costner looks, I promise.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
So I can't help.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But notice, you know, we've been talking about Yellowstone, We've
been talking about the whole Taylor Shared and Extended universe.
Eighteen eighty three, nineteen twenty three. You know, in the
first episode of nineteen twenty three, we hear a voiceover
from Elsa Dutton who says that violence has always haunted
the Dutton family, and we've witnessed that not just in
(03:58):
the actions of Yellowstone, but also throughout the course of
eighteen eighty three and now through the first few episodes
of nineteen twenty three, this family seems to constantly be
under attack, to constantly have to resort to violence to
protect their history, their culture, their way of life. And
so we've witnessed the terrible ramifications of that haunting over
(04:23):
five seasons of Yellowstone. Now, so I thought it might
be fun to rank our top five deaths across Yellowstone
eighteen eighty three and nineteen twenty three. So I'm gonna
get us started, and then I'm gonna kick it to you, Lynnette.
My number five death is the death of Evelyn Dutton,
John Dutton's wife, as depicted by Gretchen mal in flashback
(04:47):
in season one of Yellowstone. We're talking about Beth's mom,
Casey's mom, the tragic formative loss that seems to have
kicked off a lot of the struggle that John Dutton
is now weighed down by not having this partner, you know,
In eighteen eighty three we see a pair. In nineteen
(05:08):
twenty three, we see Helen Mire and Anne Harrison Ford,
this pair, this couple fighting together against outside forces. John Dutton.
It seems is sort of sitting on the throne alone
and for want of a partner, seems to be struggling
to hold his family together. So for me number five,
that's Evelyn Dutton. What do you think when Itte?
Speaker 6 (05:30):
I totally agree there's so much drama there left on
the table. By the way, by killing her off. I
want to see Gretchen Maul's mom with Beth. I mean,
I feel like she'd be kind of shrewy, she would
be like, oh, it would be the kind of mother
daughter relationship we all live for in cinema. So it's
too bad we don't have that. So yeah, I totally agree.
Maya my five. Can you guys remember that journalist who
(05:52):
died in the first season?
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Yes, what the hell did she have to die?
Speaker 6 (05:56):
I mean, I guess this sets up the kind of
you know, pooh head that you know Jamie is. I
think as he was responsible for her death. I think
that was the case. It seems so long ago, doesn't it,
But I remember her death. It's like, dang, she's gone, Wow,
this is this family exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Not only Jamie killed her, So Jamie first sort of
spilled his guts to her about all these these sordid
details about the Dutton family's history and then killed her.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
The character's name is Sarah Wynn and the actress's name
is Mikaela Conlin.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
She was almost my number five pick. She got edged
out slightly, I think, probably by my number one pick.
But my five I can't talk about five without talking
about four. So my five and four, guys, I'm breaking
the rules. My five and four are Lee Dutton and
(06:49):
Robert Monica's brother because when Lee Dutton died played by
Dave Annabel, it was like the Sean Bean death and
Game of Thrones where I knew that nobody was safe,
that anybody at any moment could drop dead because they
killed him off. And number four being Robert Monica's brother,
(07:12):
because you know, now we have this like Romeo and
Juliet kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So those are my five and four.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, it's very Romeo and Juliet, right, because Robert Long
kills Lee yep, and then Casey kills Robert Long, which.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Really, does you know?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
It sets off the conflict of all of season one.
Season one is so much this kind of three headed
conflict between Rainwater, John Dutton, and Dan Jenkins, these people
who later managed to find common ground, but it takes
them a while. With such a rocky start. That's a
great one. So for me, Number four really mostly so
(07:50):
high on the list because of its how exciting and
fun a sequence. It was Rourke with the rattlesnake. Yeah,
rip in the river with the rattlesnake. You know, if
we're playing clue here. I found that incredibly satisfying. Rourke
was so expertly played as a smug asshole, interloping, getting
(08:12):
in far over his head, and then paying the ultimate
price for it.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I love that sequence.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Very kill Bill, you forgot to say hot.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
He was very hot, very sorry, very hot, gentleman, very hot.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Rourke was not on my top five, Jeff, but I
have a star on my notes. I made my own
section called favorite death, which, like, by the way, I
have more than one, but that was my favorite death.
I remember reading that in the script and being like.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Yes, my four, I'm gonna say Casey and Monica's baby.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Why did they do that?
Speaker 6 (08:48):
I mean, it's it's set up such an incredible season
for Kelsey. I mean, god, she's just been so depressed
and she's obviously done some of her best work on
the show. And really brought out in the dimension of
her character, of which I think was lacking, but that
still was kind of a wham. I mean, it's like, Wow,
what a thing to put on that little kid and
(09:09):
then to put her through and it involved it was
Was it.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
A buffalo that it was evolved with? It was a buffalo?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Right?
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Yeah? Bad newsman.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
The classic beginnings and endings, you know. So, season five,
episode one, John Dutton is elected governor. It's this moment
of perhaps triumph and then the tragic loss of Casey's son,
also named John. So for me number three and perhaps
there's a little bit of Jimmy bias here, it's Fred.
(09:39):
It's Fred from season one, the first guy we saw
take into the train station. For those who may not remember,
Fred was the massive glute expertly played by Luke Peck
and Paul who just beats the shit out of Jimmy.
And then we see this incredibly satisfying immediate revenge as
Rip and Low come to Jimmy's aid and really punish
(10:03):
him on the spot. It's when we first hear Rip's
iconic line there's no fighting on this ranch. If you
want to fight, you come fight me. I'll fight you
all goddamn day. So you know, Fred makes the terrible
mistake of beating up a branded man, and you know,
we learn a lot from this sequence. We learned the
(10:24):
consequences of beating up a branded man, we learned the
consequences of fighting on the ranch. And also Fred is
the first character we see taken to the train station,
which will obviously be a recurring theme no doubt throughout
the rest of our lists.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Jeff, when I was searching the internet for all the
people who had died on Yellowstone because I forgot, I
was surprised that an inordinate amount had to do with you.
And I always think of Jimmy as this like sweet,
peaceful guy. But maybe Jimmy is the villain because there
were like seven deaths related to you, more than any
(10:59):
other care character, perhaps seven, like.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
In Really Something Crazy. I was like, God, Jimmy, just
if you go around.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Me, you die.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
To be fair, I think Casey kills seven people in
the first three episodes of Yellowstone. They didn't make the list,
So Jimmy, listen, Jimmy. Jimmy only participates in Jimmy Is
Jimmy is perhaps also haunted by violence, haunted by tragedy.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
He's had a very hard life.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
This the mid season finale, when we saw you, Jefferson
Uh in your new settings, to me, you look like
a completely different guy, especially because in comparison to that
first season. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Nothing's changed
about you in the They changed your look, but you
seem so different to me, Like you know, you've come
(11:46):
into your own You're mister true cowboy. You know you
have the beautiful woman I.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Mean, Lynette listen. I was already a fan of your work.
We knew, we knew that you had a sort of
clear eye in incisive style of journalism and reporting on
the ground. But this is really demonstrating your ability to
cut through the bullshit and get straight to the facts
of the matter. Thank you, thank you very much for
(12:11):
saying that. With that, and now I'm going to turn
it back on you. Your number three death, Yellowstone number
three death, Who is it?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I didn't love that? Well, no, I took that back.
It was very interesting that we met Jamie's true dad.
I didn't love the character because he felt like a nuisance.
But I also still don't understand why Jamie killed him.
Because it's still his real dad, even though he was
kind of a butenski. I was shocked that Garrett, you,
(12:42):
obviously played by Will Patton, met his maker. That was
kind of a shocker because he was the only dude
left in Jamie's corner.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Really, yeah, it was brutal.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It really felt like about as machiavellian as Beth has
ever been. You know, Beth has Jamie for most of
their lives, certainly their whole adult lives. And forcing him
to kill his own father, sort of building this puzzle
box the only way out of which was killing his
own father, is perhaps as evil as Beth has ever been. Granted,
(13:21):
the argument can be made that Garrett Randall himself was
an evil man. He orchestrated the attempted hit on Beth
Casey John Dutton. So it's a complicated thing. And Taylor
loves to write these characters that aren't just bad guys
or good guys. They have redeeming qualities. Garrett, for how
sort of evil he himself was, also showed Jamie kindness
(13:45):
in a way perhaps no other character has, and Beth
for how much we love her, sometimes putting Jamie in
the position of having to shoot his own father in
the head. As you said, the only person that was
in his corner. About as evil as we've seen Beth
beat as well. Jen, I'm really excited to dig into
it and hear about your number three. But before we do,
(14:07):
let's go to.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
A quick break, all right, So we're on our number
three death, Lynnette. My number three pick is the same
(14:29):
as your number three pick, which of course is Garrett Randall,
played by Will Patton, Jamie's dad. Not just because I'm
obsessed with Will Patten as an actor, but because I
think that having to kill your own father crosses a
line of which you do not come back from Beth
(14:56):
by doing this. I think it's a monster of her
own creation. Him having to cross that line has created
a person that will cross any line, and I think
it's going to be and obviously he's looking like it already,
the biggest threat to Beth and John.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
I think what's most significant about this death and kind
of really speaks to Taylor's thinking and obviously how he's
thinking of ahead. That death gave Beth the first introduction
to the train station she followed Jamie. She took that picture,
which ultimately she uses as a tool in the mid
season finale as a way to blackmail him into doing
(15:37):
what he does. But there there's some people who think
that how would she not know about the train station
until now? But I can see how she would know
about the train station, right.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, it makes sense to him, Jeff, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I think it's it's plausible deniability, you know. I think
John has different soldiers for different tasks. He asks Rip
to take people to the train station, he asks Lloyd,
he asks Casey. I think Beth handles a completely different
side of the operation, and I think that, if anything,
it's smart leadership to keep those halves distinct. And there's
(16:13):
also I remember, very specifically, there's some stuff between Rip
and Beth where Beth asks Rip to tell her where
he's been, and he says, don't ask me that. That's
like the one thing I can't tell you. That's the
one thing I can't share with you. You know, they have
they are both soldiers for John, but in different arenas.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, it feels very much to me like both of
those men protecting Beth is a top priority, and so
to expose her to that in any way is dangerous
or deadly.
Speaker 6 (16:44):
And don't I don't want to get I don't want
to get too much in the weeds here, by the way.
But train station is that a cowboy state saying? Have
you guys heard that before? I mean, why take to
the strength train station? Why not like take to the more,
take to the fridge? Do you know if like where
he came up with train station of all places?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Is that a saying, Jeff, do you I don't think
it's I think it's an invention.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I think it's an invention of the lore of this world,
so of Taylor's world here. And I think what's fun
about it too, is it also has a kind of
intergenerational linguistic flair clever.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
It's very clever.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, because we don't know when people started doing this.
We don't know when the first time somebody went to
the train station was.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Yeah, Like you can also like you can say the
train station, like while you're you know, taking them to
the train station, while you're like sitting in a coffee shop,
you know, maybe getting your nails done. But you can't
be like take them to the morgue, you know, right
in the middle of a pedic Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
It's it's code, yes, total code.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, And it leads to this nice open secret because
Beth probably would have heard somebody say, oh, take them
to the train station and not necessarily understood what that meant.
There's this very shilling sequence in season one, I think
when Walker is in the back of Rip's truck and
Casey says to Walker, Hey, wait a second, where you
guys going, And Walker says, al, he's going to take
me to the train station because he doesn't know what
(18:04):
that implies. You know, it leads to it's it's a
sort of almost mafia like secret vocabulary for those.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
In the know.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
You're gonna go to the Bear's dramatically satisfying.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Just to we're just going to the beach, kid, Uh,
that intergenerational thing, Jeff, like I thought it was. I
was thinking about how you know, at a certain time,
when you board the train to go somewhere else, like
you're not coming back because it's an incredibly long, arduous
journey or whatever. But I wonder if Taylor is going
to pay that off in a literal way. I don't
(18:37):
think he is, but I wonder if there will be
a very literal moment in which we see a body
earlier kind of go to the train station in a
different way. It actually is put on a train. I
don't imagine that happened anything.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Yeah, oh well, didn't we get the origin of the
train station when we saw the flash? Was that so
the the the kid that young rip beat up? Do
you think that was the first body to the train
station or was the train station already established before that?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It seems to me to be implied that it was
already established before that, and that Rowdy being taken Rowdy's
body being taken to the train station was another entry.
So it seems like, you know, young Lloyd who takes
that body to the train station was already familiar with
that practice. I'm excited to see if nineteen twenty three
is the one that like introduces that concept, because now
(19:31):
that we've got this range war erupting in nineteen twenty three, yeah,
maybe for the first time there's some you know, conflict
about the cowboy way of life versus this modern, you know,
proper appropriate avenue of justice. I'm excited to see if
nineteen twenty three gives us our first trip to the
train station.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Jeff, do you want to do you want to give
us your number two?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Well, my number two has got a bit of a
Jimmy bias to it as well. So Jimmy's old life
kind of comes back to haunt him, particularly in seasons
Season two mostly you know, so Season two is a
violent season for Jimmy. He's confronted by some of his
(20:15):
old associates who end up beating his grandfather to death.
So his last living relative is his grandfather, Dirk Heardstrom,
who in the pilot episode of Yellowstone asks John Dutton, Hey,
will you take my good for nothing grandson onto the ranch?
Will you set him straight? So for Jimmy, I think
(20:36):
the death of Dirk Hurdstrom, his grandfather, represents the last
sort of tether to his old life and his old identity,
and in some ways represents this kind of rebirth. You know,
Rip says to Jimmy, I'm going to show you how
to take care of problem so they don't become bigger problems.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It feels like.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Those And then you know, the subsequent Jimmy and Rip
and the gang exploding the meth house trailer, killing Jimmy's
old associates. There's a series of very violent deaths that
seemed to me formative for this new Jimmy. The Jimmy
that we know now, you know, he has this kind
of rebirth away from his old associates and his old
(21:20):
way of life. So for me number two, it's Dirk
Hurdstrom and it's Jimmy's old associates, the drug dealers.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
What do you think, Lynnette, my.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Number two is going to be Jens. I think it
was her four or five. It's Dave Annabel. I think
her comparison to Sean Bean in Game of Thrones was
apt because Sean Bean's character at the time, he was
the moral center of Game of Thrones and he went away,
and Lee Dutton represented all that is good about the
(21:51):
rancher's life. There was nothing bad about this kid. He
was just a good hard worker and he loved his
family and he loved his land. And they killed him.
So that was sad to see. And I also really
liked Dave Annabel. I was a huge brother as a
Sisters fan. I loved him on that show, so it
was sad to say goodbye.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know. I can't help Leneppa draw some parallels between
the death of Lee Dutton and the death of John
Dutton Senior.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
In nineteen twenty three. As a result of this big shootout.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So, you know, you mentioned Dave Annabel the performance that
was robbed from us by the death of Lee Dutton.
I feel the same way about James Badge Dale, who
plays John Dutton Senior, because James is an incredible actor,
one of his generation's best character actors, and I was
(22:38):
really excited to see you many more episodes and a
similar situation. We're talking about the sort of oldest son,
the heir apparent, the steadfast, you know, steadfast kind of
moral center, perhaps the inheritor of their respective father's work,
ethic and sort of simple kind of sense of justice.
(23:03):
So it really, it does feel like both of the
deaths of both those characters, Lee Dutton and Yellowstone and
John Dutton Senior in nineteen twenty three feel like they're
very formative, and I'm really curious to see the ramifications
of that death in nineteen twenty three. You know, So
(23:23):
the death of John Dutton Senior also brings to mind
the sort of ominous prophecy that we hear at the
beginning of nineteen twenty three, Jen, will you dig into.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
That a little bit?
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Will you?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Will you break that down?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I mean, I don't know if I'm going to break
it down.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
But I can tell you the fear that it has
sparked in me, which is that I believe that what
Elsa says is that she says only one of them,
of her two brothers, only one of them will see
their children grow to be adults themselves. Right. So here
we have John Dutton senior, right, he is killed. We
(24:00):
have Jack Dutton, his son, right, who I consider to
be grown. So that leads me to believe that Spencer
Dutton is not safe because she says only one of
them will live to see theirs grown, their own children grow,
Which leads me to believe that while Spencer is alive now,
and while Spencer may have children, there's a good chance,
(24:24):
if the prophecy holds or the storytelling is you know
the tracks across, that he will die before his own
child becomes an adult.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Right, you know what I mean? Isn't that what she says?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Does she say only one of them will live to
see their own.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
She says she's only one of them will live to
see there's grown or something like that.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Sorry, that's my relief.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
And wonder now where we leave Spencer. We've seen Spencer
sort of fight his way through hell. In World War
not only in World War One, but now he's sort
of being haunted by violence across all of Africa. It
seems sort of chasing his own death. You know, he's
either being haunted by violence or he's haunting violence, because
(25:11):
it really seems like he's pursuing death in some way.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Yeah, and there's that great line that that Kara says,
Helen Maren's character character. I just always want to be
like Helen. I just want to connect to Helen Maren
as much as that she says. At the letter she
says and I add to a to a letter Dispenser's,
she says something along the lines of, I don't know
what war it is you're fighting inside or you know,
(25:37):
but you need to you need to put that aside
and come back home and fight this one.
Speaker 6 (25:42):
And well that was his war, his war days, right,
he's still carrying the heaviness of the war.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
There is a PTSD storyline, I think in that.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
Yeah, sure, I thought that that was some ballsy writing
by Taylor, because I when when I first heard else
to say that, I was a bit confused and I
had to stop and look at every you know, detail
available about what this new show was setting up, and
who's related to who? I got confused at first, but
now it's all very clear. He was obviously talking about
(26:11):
James Badge Dale's death. I don't want to believe that
Spencer dies because I really like that character and I
want to see where that marriage goes.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
He could die very late, he could he could die.
It takes like, let's say it takes twenty years for
a kid to grow up. Let's or eighteen.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
We got it.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
We got to carry on the Detton seed somehow, So
obviously somebody has to live.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
No, they don't, because you could have a kid, right,
you can have a kid. She they just I think
that I think it was that you just don't see
him grow up so correct, you know up till eighteen.
You know we can wherever that limit hits.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, this is so exciting, and it's what you guys
described earlier. Is this feeling that nobody's safe. I think
that's an atmosphere that Taylor has really expertly crafted on
nineteen twenty, on nineteen eight, on eighteen eighty three, and
on nineteen twelve, twenty three, this feeling that these beloved
characters are never safe. So going into every gun fight,
I find myself, you know, breathless, trying to track what's happening.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And that when when.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Our man shows up in the car with the Tommy gun,
that was such a sort of frightening image, you know,
the image of that modernity, just like all these guys.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It feels like it's you know, it's decades.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It's like the future showing up in the middle of
Montana with a Tommy gun and to say, you know,
sit down.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Yeah. And there's that moment earlier in the episode, which
like was very satisfying on a light version of that,
when the family is walking down the street and they
talk about the washing machine, you know that there's and
they talk about those things coming in and I don't
know when he when he got out of that car
with you know, I don't know enough about guns, but
I'm gonna call it like an automatic weapon.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Basically.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Suddenly the car and that weapon, it felt so deeply fair.
The fight no longer felt like a fight. And I
couldn't help but think about, you know, how Native American
tribes felt when settlers showed up with guns, when you know,
when they when they had bows and arrows.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
It seems to represent intergenerationally, the Duttons are often outmatched
by technology, by these sort of like legal maneuvers. It
feels like so much of what Market Equities is doing
is trying to make the parameters of their fight unfair.
They're trying to do whatever they can to sort of bring,
you know, the coercive American legal system to bear against
(28:39):
the Duttons. They're sort of trying to they can't win
the fight by the Duttons' rules, so they're trying to
shift the parameters of the fight. And it really feels
like that's what Bronner does in that moment as he says, Okay,
we can't fight your way.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I'm gonna fight my way.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I'm gonna, you know, hit you with a car and
shoot you forty times with a machine gun.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
I thought it was such a bitch and prop.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
It was very much like an Indiana Jones moment, remember
that from the first movie where he pulls out the.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Gun when you know they're the nights with them and
he just pulls up like shut up.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
I got giddy when I saw the prop. It was Now,
I don't know where Shepherd is going to get a
Tommy gun, but whatever.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Details details, I thought it was. It was pretty great.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Well, the choreography in that whole fight sequence, I just
have to say was so breathtaking. Moment to moment, I
have this reaction when I watch things that are like violence.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That is beautifully.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Choreographed, I like start crying, even though I don't feel sad,
And that happened during this fight sequence, even down to
like the detail of the entire family being on one
side of that fallen log and then going to the
other side and just like holding on for this narrow
margin of potential safety.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Jin it sounds like you've got a lot of insight
about Lynette's number two. I've yet to hear a number
two from you. So let's go to a break really quick,
and then when we come back, you're on the hook.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
Okay, Jan, I'm dying to here, get it, dying to
hear what you're number two is.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Okay, listen, my number two. While not technically a death,
it you know, or in the literal sense that we've
been you know, addressing things, Uh, it feels to me
like a death of a dream, a death of a possibility,
a death of and and I think that you know,
this feels like a death for a lot of women,
which is Beth's hysterectomy, and suddenly she cannot have she
(30:51):
cannot have children, and people I know who have been
told they cannot have kids. It feels very much like
a death. So that is my number two because I
cannot think about who Beth is without that loss sort
(31:14):
of interwoven into the animal that she is.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So that's my number two.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Cheery, excellent selection.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
And I remember, I mean the reveal on that was
so huge and I immediately went to the Internet to
look up the history of these clinics on the reservation
and that whole story is steeped in reality, which was
even more depressing. That one really hung on to me.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Okay, are we at number one? Are we going to
talk about number one deaths? I'm ready, I'll go because
mine's I'll just lead here and we'll go around this
way again. Okay, so my number one deaf, though I
do kind of want to change it. My number one
death is Evelyn and Dutton because I think the ultimate
wound is the mother wound.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
It's a really good one, Jen, I mean, the Evelyn
stuff is really I don't think it can be overstated
how much the you know, it feels like this generation
of Dutton's, their grip on this ranch is more precarious
than it's ever been. We see it sort of slipping
out of their fingers. From the very beginning, the ranch
is in crisis, and John Dutton bemoans over and over again, God,
(32:19):
if my wife could see how poorly I've done holding
our family together, if my wife could see the mess
I've made of things. It really feels like he's missing
this anchor. He feels in some ways like a sort
of cursed or haunted, kind of empty man. From the
(32:40):
very beginning of the show, and it really feels like,
you know, the loss of Evelyn also heavily informs the
relationship between Beth and John, which is one of the
critical relationships of the show. Beth's loyalty to John. So
much of what she does, this kind of destructive spree
that she's on, is in John's name, in part because
(33:01):
I think, I think, like you said, she doesn't have
this mother. She feels as though she has so much
responsibility to her father, especially because she feels responsible for
Evelyn's death. You know, we saw in that tragic flashback,
Beth feels responsible for Evelyn's death, and she will go
to the ends of the earth and sort of you know,
(33:22):
spite it all, cut it all down, to try to
redeem you know, what she feels she's responsible for.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
It's really it's very tragic.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Yeah, as you were talking, I was just thinking about
young Rip all of a sudden and of course, and
you know, young Beth and young Jamie, and how there's
a lot of these characters as children feel deeply responsible for,
you know, for deaths of individuals or for you know, Jamie,
(33:53):
the hysterectomy of Beth. That it's just a tremendous amount
of shame to carry into adulthood.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Grew up way too fast.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
All right, I'm going to my number one is all
the deaths at the end of eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, I think my
number one is similarly. Yeah, all these Duttons that have
come before. You know, by the time we get to
the action of Yellowstone, it feels like Kevin Costner John
Dutton is dragging behind the terrible weight of his ancestors.
It feels like he's got all of these skeletons almost
(34:30):
shackled to him. That he's trying so hard to drag
them along with him into the future. And I can't
help but feel like it's feudle. You know, I can't
help but feel like it's a doomed enterprise.
Speaker 6 (34:44):
This list, this is what makes TV so great. I mean,
this is why showrunners should never listen to fans, because
fans will always want to keep everybody alive. But there's
no conflict there, there's no drama. And if you think
back at the best television of your life, it's the
one you think about those great deaths. My one of
my all time favorites is when Josh Charles was killed
off on The Good Wife.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
I still remember it. I still watch it today and
it kills me.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
And so I mean, as sad as it is to
say goodbye to these characters, you need this to keep
the show fresh and interesting. In getting us to talk
about this and do lists like these, it's this great stuff.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yeah, hey, Jeff, since I know that you love death
so much and you were sad to be limited to
five significant ones, can we just get into some of
your your top five faves because they're Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Actually, I made a list of thirty thirty five. We're
going to start at number thirty five, here we go.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I think of myself as a bit of a Yellowstone historian.
So I just want to run down some of the
exciting deaths, you know, exciting defining deaths from the history.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Of the show.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
So Dan Jenkins, oh yeah, more went out for Dan Jenkins.
Dan Jenkins, that was a bit for me of a
moment of oh, how do we go back from this?
Because he had been such a sort of formative importance
and character in the first two seasons of the show.
It felt like he finally saw the light towards the
end of his life. Yeah, you know, he finally understood that.
You know, Kevin Costner John Dutton was maybe right, you know,
(36:13):
he he maybe sided with John Dutton against the Beck
Brothers right at the end of his life, but that
also cost him his life. Speaking of the Beck brothers,
oh man, absolute scumbags, very satis as far as you know,
satisfying deaths go. I would say, the deaths of the
Beck brothers really really got me going, really got me buzzing.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Well, actually, if you want to get into a t
and ay three. And I didn't realize this until recently
when I was reminded of it. You know Don OLIVERI
who plays the vixen, who's like pulling in Jamie right now.
She played Claire Dutton. Remember that whole sequence where her
daughters died and she decides it's not worth living and
she ends up staying there by his grave.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
That was brutal.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
That was freaking Bruce at all, totally.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
So yeah, that's that's up there.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
You can pour one out for her too.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, the past was bad. Overwhelmingly.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
As I'm watching eighteen eighty three and nineteen twenty three,
I'm reminded that the past pretty rough time to be alive.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, not so good, guys.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
As we've been exploring throughout this entire episode, all things
must end. All palaces are temporary palaces, This too shall pass,
and this unfortunately brings us to the conclusion of this episode.
So I'm so so grateful for you out there listening
to us, Lynnette. I'm so grateful that you joined us.
(37:36):
Thank you for bringing your perspective to all of this.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
What a joy.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
And I really hope that you end this episode with
Jen as Teeter saying, you know, sending Jimmy to the
train station.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Do you think you could do that, do a teeter
like a teter.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Dreaming in a fucking translation.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
I'll nice shit.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
There it, Lynette.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I've been begging her to do that for months. I've
been begging her to do the voice for months, and
all you had to do was ask.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I blacked out. What happened?
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Thank you so so much for joining us. We'll see
you real soon.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Don't forget to subscribe to the Official Yellowstone Podcast and
you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
you get your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is a
production of one oh one Studios and Paramount. This episode
was produced by Scott Stone. Brandon Getchis is the head
of Audio for one oh one Studios. Steve Rasis is
the executive vice president of the Paramount Global Podcast Group.
(38:44):
Special thanks to Megan Marcus, Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow,
Jason Reid, and Whitney Baxter from Paramount, and of course
David Glasser, David Huckin and Michelle Newman from one oh
one Studios
Hello everybody, Thank you so much for joining us again.
It's Jefferson White here, Jimmy Herdstrom on the PARAMOUNTA Networks, Yellowstone,
joined as always by Jen Land and Jen. How you doing,
Thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks Jeff, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I mean this, I gotta say I'm feeling it is
a pretty wild week in the Yellowstone universe here. So
not only in episode five oh eight of Yellowstone. In
season five, episode eight of Yellowstone, we've got danger on
the horizon, danger brewing, this seemingly intractable conflict between Jamie
(00:46):
Dutton and Beth Dutton boiling over, seeming like it's coming
to a head. It seems like it can only end
with terrible, perhaps fatal consequences. Not to mention in episode
three of nineteen twenty three, this absolutely shocking shootout, this
(01:07):
incredible action sequence, really wild time, exciting time to be
a Yellowstone fan.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
So, Jeff, what you're saying is the theme of today's
episode is death. It's going to be really cheery, and
later on we are going to be talking about the
five most significant deaths on Yellowstone, and we're going to
be doing that with our guest. We have Lynette Rice,
who's going to be joining us. She is a senior
reporter at Deadline. She's a huge fan of the show
(01:37):
and jeff She's a New York Times bestselling author.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, you've got your picks. I've got my picks. Lynette's
got her picks. I'm extremely excited to dig into it,
hash it out, get to the bottom of this right
after this.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Okay, we're back.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I'm super excited, as morbid as that sounds to talk
about death and all of the most significant and my
favorite ones.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And we are going to introduce you to our guests.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Now.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
This is Lynette Rice, again, a senior reporter Deadline, huge
fan of the show.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Hi, Lynnette, Hello, Hello, so great to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We're super excited to have you.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
I do want to ask Jefferson, have you ever asked
her to do one episode fully as Teeter? I mean,
she's not allowed to sound like Jen, she can only
be Teeter.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I've been begging her since the beginning. We did one
and then the producer called it incomprehensible.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Which I thought was a little little rude.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I was going to say that, actually notes came down
the line that I was incomprehensible on this show, but
not because of my annunciation, just because I told stories
like that Sleep with Me podcast guy, which the whole
point is they go nowhere.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
That would be a classic episode.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Lynnette.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
We feel it so lucky to have you with us
today as an expert all things, you know, entertainment and television,
and I'm excited to see you know, Jen and I
are a little bit biased in our opinions about the show,
so I'm excited for a little objective journalism. I'm excited
for a you know, a third party perspective and a
little bit of you know, rationality infused into this.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Sure, I guess I could bring that objectivity. I'll be
objective about the way Kevin Costner looks, I promise.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
So I can't help.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But notice, you know, we've been talking about Yellowstone, We've
been talking about the whole Taylor Shared and Extended universe.
Eighteen eighty three, nineteen twenty three. You know, in the
first episode of nineteen twenty three, we hear a voiceover
from Elsa Dutton who says that violence has always haunted
the Dutton family, and we've witnessed that not just in
(03:58):
the actions of Yellowstone, but also throughout the course of
eighteen eighty three and now through the first few episodes
of nineteen twenty three, this family seems to constantly be
under attack, to constantly have to resort to violence to
protect their history, their culture, their way of life. And
so we've witnessed the terrible ramifications of that haunting over
(04:23):
five seasons of Yellowstone. Now, so I thought it might
be fun to rank our top five deaths across Yellowstone
eighteen eighty three and nineteen twenty three. So I'm gonna
get us started, and then I'm gonna kick it to you, Lynnette.
My number five death is the death of Evelyn Dutton,
John Dutton's wife, as depicted by Gretchen mal in flashback
(04:47):
in season one of Yellowstone. We're talking about Beth's mom,
Casey's mom, the tragic formative loss that seems to have
kicked off a lot of the struggle that John Dutton
is now weighed down by not having this partner, you know,
In eighteen eighty three we see a pair. In nineteen
(05:08):
twenty three, we see Helen Mire and Anne Harrison Ford,
this pair, this couple fighting together against outside forces. John Dutton.
It seems is sort of sitting on the throne alone
and for want of a partner, seems to be struggling
to hold his family together. So for me number five,
that's Evelyn Dutton. What do you think when Itte?
Speaker 6 (05:30):
I totally agree there's so much drama there left on
the table. By the way, by killing her off. I
want to see Gretchen Maul's mom with Beth. I mean,
I feel like she'd be kind of shrewy, she would
be like, oh, it would be the kind of mother
daughter relationship we all live for in cinema. So it's
too bad we don't have that. So yeah, I totally agree.
Maya my five. Can you guys remember that journalist who
(05:52):
died in the first season?
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Yes, what the hell did she have to die?
Speaker 6 (05:56):
I mean, I guess this sets up the kind of
you know, pooh head that you know Jamie is. I
think as he was responsible for her death. I think
that was the case. It seems so long ago, doesn't it,
But I remember her death. It's like, dang, she's gone, Wow,
this is this family exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Not only Jamie killed her, So Jamie first sort of
spilled his guts to her about all these these sordid
details about the Dutton family's history and then killed her.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
The character's name is Sarah Wynn and the actress's name
is Mikaela Conlin.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
She was almost my number five pick. She got edged
out slightly, I think, probably by my number one pick.
But my five I can't talk about five without talking
about four. So my five and four, guys, I'm breaking
the rules. My five and four are Lee Dutton and
(06:49):
Robert Monica's brother because when Lee Dutton died played by
Dave Annabel, it was like the Sean Bean death and
Game of Thrones where I knew that nobody was safe,
that anybody at any moment could drop dead because they
killed him off. And number four being Robert Monica's brother,
(07:12):
because you know, now we have this like Romeo and
Juliet kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So those are my five and four.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, it's very Romeo and Juliet, right, because Robert Long
kills Lee yep, and then Casey kills Robert Long, which.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Really, does you know?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
It sets off the conflict of all of season one.
Season one is so much this kind of three headed
conflict between Rainwater, John Dutton, and Dan Jenkins, these people
who later managed to find common ground, but it takes
them a while. With such a rocky start. That's a
great one. So for me, Number four really mostly so
(07:50):
high on the list because of its how exciting and
fun a sequence. It was Rourke with the rattlesnake. Yeah,
rip in the river with the rattlesnake. You know, if
we're playing clue here. I found that incredibly satisfying. Rourke
was so expertly played as a smug asshole, interloping, getting
(08:12):
in far over his head, and then paying the ultimate
price for it.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I love that sequence.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Very kill Bill, you forgot to say hot.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
He was very hot, very sorry, very hot, gentleman, very hot.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Rourke was not on my top five, Jeff, but I
have a star on my notes. I made my own
section called favorite death, which, like, by the way, I
have more than one, but that was my favorite death.
I remember reading that in the script and being like.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Yes, my four, I'm gonna say Casey and Monica's baby.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Why did they do that?
Speaker 6 (08:48):
I mean, it's it's set up such an incredible season
for Kelsey. I mean, god, she's just been so depressed
and she's obviously done some of her best work on
the show. And really brought out in the dimension of
her character, of which I think was lacking, but that
still was kind of a wham. I mean, it's like, Wow,
what a thing to put on that little kid and
(09:09):
then to put her through and it involved it was
Was it.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
A buffalo that it was evolved with? It was a buffalo?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Right?
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Yeah? Bad newsman.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
The classic beginnings and endings, you know. So, season five,
episode one, John Dutton is elected governor. It's this moment
of perhaps triumph and then the tragic loss of Casey's son,
also named John. So for me number three and perhaps
there's a little bit of Jimmy bias here, it's Fred.
(09:39):
It's Fred from season one, the first guy we saw
take into the train station. For those who may not remember,
Fred was the massive glute expertly played by Luke Peck
and Paul who just beats the shit out of Jimmy.
And then we see this incredibly satisfying immediate revenge as
Rip and Low come to Jimmy's aid and really punish
(10:03):
him on the spot. It's when we first hear Rip's
iconic line there's no fighting on this ranch. If you
want to fight, you come fight me. I'll fight you
all goddamn day. So you know, Fred makes the terrible
mistake of beating up a branded man, and you know,
we learn a lot from this sequence. We learned the
(10:24):
consequences of beating up a branded man, we learned the
consequences of fighting on the ranch. And also Fred is
the first character we see taken to the train station,
which will obviously be a recurring theme no doubt throughout
the rest of our lists.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Jeff, when I was searching the internet for all the
people who had died on Yellowstone because I forgot, I
was surprised that an inordinate amount had to do with you.
And I always think of Jimmy as this like sweet,
peaceful guy. But maybe Jimmy is the villain because there
were like seven deaths related to you, more than any
(10:59):
other care character, perhaps seven, like.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
In Really Something Crazy. I was like, God, Jimmy, just
if you go around.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Me, you die.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
To be fair, I think Casey kills seven people in
the first three episodes of Yellowstone. They didn't make the list,
So Jimmy, listen, Jimmy. Jimmy only participates in Jimmy Is
Jimmy is perhaps also haunted by violence, haunted by tragedy.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
He's had a very hard life.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
This the mid season finale, when we saw you, Jefferson
Uh in your new settings, to me, you look like
a completely different guy, especially because in comparison to that
first season. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Nothing's changed
about you in the They changed your look, but you
seem so different to me, Like you know, you've come
(11:46):
into your own You're mister true cowboy. You know you
have the beautiful woman I.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Mean, Lynette listen. I was already a fan of your work.
We knew, we knew that you had a sort of
clear eye in incisive style of journalism and reporting on
the ground. But this is really demonstrating your ability to
cut through the bullshit and get straight to the facts
of the matter. Thank you, thank you very much for
(12:11):
saying that. With that, and now I'm going to turn
it back on you. Your number three death, Yellowstone number
three death, Who is it?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (12:18):
I didn't love that? Well, no, I took that back.
It was very interesting that we met Jamie's true dad.
I didn't love the character because he felt like a nuisance.
But I also still don't understand why Jamie killed him.
Because it's still his real dad, even though he was
kind of a butenski. I was shocked that Garrett, you,
(12:42):
obviously played by Will Patton, met his maker. That was
kind of a shocker because he was the only dude
left in Jamie's corner.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Really, yeah, it was brutal.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It really felt like about as machiavellian as Beth has
ever been. You know, Beth has Jamie for most of
their lives, certainly their whole adult lives. And forcing him
to kill his own father, sort of building this puzzle
box the only way out of which was killing his
own father, is perhaps as evil as Beth has ever been. Granted,
(13:21):
the argument can be made that Garrett Randall himself was
an evil man. He orchestrated the attempted hit on Beth
Casey John Dutton. So it's a complicated thing. And Taylor
loves to write these characters that aren't just bad guys
or good guys. They have redeeming qualities. Garrett, for how
sort of evil he himself was, also showed Jamie kindness
(13:45):
in a way perhaps no other character has, and Beth
for how much we love her, sometimes putting Jamie in
the position of having to shoot his own father in
the head. As you said, the only person that was
in his corner. About as evil as we've seen Beth
beat as well. Jen, I'm really excited to dig into
it and hear about your number three. But before we do,
(14:07):
let's go to.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
A quick break, all right, So we're on our number
three death, Lynnette. My number three pick is the same
(14:29):
as your number three pick, which of course is Garrett Randall,
played by Will Patton, Jamie's dad. Not just because I'm
obsessed with Will Patten as an actor, but because I
think that having to kill your own father crosses a
line of which you do not come back from Beth
(14:56):
by doing this. I think it's a monster of her
own creation. Him having to cross that line has created
a person that will cross any line, and I think
it's going to be and obviously he's looking like it already,
the biggest threat to Beth and John.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
I think what's most significant about this death and kind
of really speaks to Taylor's thinking and obviously how he's
thinking of ahead. That death gave Beth the first introduction
to the train station she followed Jamie. She took that picture,
which ultimately she uses as a tool in the mid
season finale as a way to blackmail him into doing
(15:37):
what he does. But there there's some people who think
that how would she not know about the train station
until now? But I can see how she would know
about the train station, right.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, it makes sense to him, Jeff, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I think it's it's plausible deniability, you know. I think
John has different soldiers for different tasks. He asks Rip
to take people to the train station, he asks Lloyd,
he asks Casey. I think Beth handles a completely different
side of the operation, and I think that, if anything,
it's smart leadership to keep those halves distinct. And there's
(16:13):
also I remember, very specifically, there's some stuff between Rip
and Beth where Beth asks Rip to tell her where
he's been, and he says, don't ask me that. That's
like the one thing I can't tell you. That's the
one thing I can't share with you. You know, they have
they are both soldiers for John, but in different arenas.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, it feels very much to me like both of
those men protecting Beth is a top priority, and so
to expose her to that in any way is dangerous
or deadly.
Speaker 6 (16:44):
And don't I don't want to get I don't want
to get too much in the weeds here, by the way.
But train station is that a cowboy state saying? Have
you guys heard that before? I mean, why take to
the strength train station? Why not like take to the more,
take to the fridge? Do you know if like where
he came up with train station of all places?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Is that a saying, Jeff, do you I don't think
it's I think it's an invention.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I think it's an invention of the lore of this world,
so of Taylor's world here. And I think what's fun
about it too, is it also has a kind of
intergenerational linguistic flair clever.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
It's very clever.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, because we don't know when people started doing this.
We don't know when the first time somebody went to
the train station was.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Yeah, Like you can also like you can say the
train station, like while you're you know, taking them to
the train station, while you're like sitting in a coffee shop,
you know, maybe getting your nails done. But you can't
be like take them to the morgue, you know, right
in the middle of a pedic Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
It's it's code, yes, total code.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, And it leads to this nice open secret because
Beth probably would have heard somebody say, oh, take them
to the train station and not necessarily understood what that meant.
There's this very shilling sequence in season one, I think
when Walker is in the back of Rip's truck and
Casey says to Walker, Hey, wait a second, where you
guys going, And Walker says, al, he's going to take
me to the train station because he doesn't know what
(18:04):
that implies. You know, it leads to it's it's a
sort of almost mafia like secret vocabulary for those.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
In the know.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
You're gonna go to the Bear's dramatically satisfying.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Just to we're just going to the beach, kid, Uh,
that intergenerational thing, Jeff, like I thought it was. I
was thinking about how you know, at a certain time,
when you board the train to go somewhere else, like
you're not coming back because it's an incredibly long, arduous
journey or whatever. But I wonder if Taylor is going
to pay that off in a literal way. I don't
(18:37):
think he is, but I wonder if there will be
a very literal moment in which we see a body
earlier kind of go to the train station in a
different way. It actually is put on a train. I
don't imagine that happened anything.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Yeah, oh well, didn't we get the origin of the
train station when we saw the flash? Was that so
the the the kid that young rip beat up? Do
you think that was the first body to the train
station or was the train station already established before that?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It seems to me to be implied that it was
already established before that, and that Rowdy being taken Rowdy's
body being taken to the train station was another entry.
So it seems like, you know, young Lloyd who takes
that body to the train station was already familiar with
that practice. I'm excited to see if nineteen twenty three
is the one that like introduces that concept, because now
(19:31):
that we've got this range war erupting in nineteen twenty three, yeah,
maybe for the first time there's some you know, conflict
about the cowboy way of life versus this modern, you know,
proper appropriate avenue of justice. I'm excited to see if
nineteen twenty three gives us our first trip to the
train station.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Jeff, do you want to do you want to give
us your number two?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Well, my number two has got a bit of a
Jimmy bias to it as well. So Jimmy's old life
kind of comes back to haunt him, particularly in seasons
Season two mostly you know, so Season two is a
violent season for Jimmy. He's confronted by some of his
(20:15):
old associates who end up beating his grandfather to death.
So his last living relative is his grandfather, Dirk Heardstrom,
who in the pilot episode of Yellowstone asks John Dutton, Hey,
will you take my good for nothing grandson onto the ranch?
Will you set him straight? So for Jimmy, I think
(20:36):
the death of Dirk Hurdstrom, his grandfather, represents the last
sort of tether to his old life and his old identity,
and in some ways represents this kind of rebirth. You know,
Rip says to Jimmy, I'm going to show you how
to take care of problem so they don't become bigger problems.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It feels like.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Those And then you know, the subsequent Jimmy and Rip
and the gang exploding the meth house trailer, killing Jimmy's
old associates. There's a series of very violent deaths that
seemed to me formative for this new Jimmy. The Jimmy
that we know now, you know, he has this kind
of rebirth away from his old associates and his old
(21:20):
way of life. So for me number two, it's Dirk
Hurdstrom and it's Jimmy's old associates, the drug dealers.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
What do you think, Lynnette, my.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Number two is going to be Jens. I think it
was her four or five. It's Dave Annabel. I think
her comparison to Sean Bean in Game of Thrones was
apt because Sean Bean's character at the time, he was
the moral center of Game of Thrones and he went away,
and Lee Dutton represented all that is good about the
(21:51):
rancher's life. There was nothing bad about this kid. He
was just a good hard worker and he loved his
family and he loved his land. And they killed him.
So that was sad to see. And I also really
liked Dave Annabel. I was a huge brother as a
Sisters fan. I loved him on that show, so it
was sad to say goodbye.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know. I can't help Leneppa draw some parallels between
the death of Lee Dutton and the death of John
Dutton Senior.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
In nineteen twenty three. As a result of this big shootout.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So, you know, you mentioned Dave Annabel the performance that
was robbed from us by the death of Lee Dutton.
I feel the same way about James Badge Dale, who
plays John Dutton Senior, because James is an incredible actor,
one of his generation's best character actors, and I was
(22:38):
really excited to see you many more episodes and a
similar situation. We're talking about the sort of oldest son,
the heir apparent, the steadfast, you know, steadfast kind of
moral center, perhaps the inheritor of their respective father's work,
ethic and sort of simple kind of sense of justice.
(23:03):
So it really, it does feel like both of the
deaths of both those characters, Lee Dutton and Yellowstone and
John Dutton Senior in nineteen twenty three feel like they're
very formative, and I'm really curious to see the ramifications
of that death in nineteen twenty three. You know, So
(23:23):
the death of John Dutton Senior also brings to mind
the sort of ominous prophecy that we hear at the
beginning of nineteen twenty three, Jen, will you dig into.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
That a little bit?
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Will you?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Will you break that down?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I mean, I don't know if I'm going to break
it down.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
But I can tell you the fear that it has
sparked in me, which is that I believe that what
Elsa says is that she says only one of them,
of her two brothers, only one of them will see
their children grow to be adults themselves. Right. So here
we have John Dutton senior, right, he is killed. We
(24:00):
have Jack Dutton, his son, right, who I consider to
be grown. So that leads me to believe that Spencer
Dutton is not safe because she says only one of
them will live to see theirs grown, their own children grow,
Which leads me to believe that while Spencer is alive now,
and while Spencer may have children, there's a good chance,
(24:24):
if the prophecy holds or the storytelling is you know
the tracks across, that he will die before his own
child becomes an adult.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Right, you know what I mean? Isn't that what she says?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Does she say only one of them will live to
see their own.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
She says she's only one of them will live to
see there's grown or something like that.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Sorry, that's my relief.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
And wonder now where we leave Spencer. We've seen Spencer
sort of fight his way through hell. In World War
not only in World War One, but now he's sort
of being haunted by violence across all of Africa. It
seems sort of chasing his own death. You know, he's
either being haunted by violence or he's haunting violence, because
(25:11):
it really seems like he's pursuing death in some way.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Yeah, and there's that great line that that Kara says,
Helen Maren's character character. I just always want to be
like Helen. I just want to connect to Helen Maren
as much as that she says. At the letter she
says and I add to a to a letter Dispenser's,
she says something along the lines of, I don't know
what war it is you're fighting inside or you know,
(25:37):
but you need to you need to put that aside
and come back home and fight this one.
Speaker 6 (25:42):
And well that was his war, his war days, right,
he's still carrying the heaviness of the war.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
There is a PTSD storyline, I think in that.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
Yeah, sure, I thought that that was some ballsy writing
by Taylor, because I when when I first heard else
to say that, I was a bit confused and I
had to stop and look at every you know, detail
available about what this new show was setting up, and
who's related to who? I got confused at first, but
now it's all very clear. He was obviously talking about
(26:11):
James Badge Dale's death. I don't want to believe that
Spencer dies because I really like that character and I
want to see where that marriage goes.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
He could die very late, he could he could die.
It takes like, let's say it takes twenty years for
a kid to grow up. Let's or eighteen.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
We got it.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
We got to carry on the Detton seed somehow, So
obviously somebody has to live.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
No, they don't, because you could have a kid, right,
you can have a kid. She they just I think
that I think it was that you just don't see
him grow up so correct, you know up till eighteen.
You know we can wherever that limit hits.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, this is so exciting, and it's what you guys
described earlier. Is this feeling that nobody's safe. I think
that's an atmosphere that Taylor has really expertly crafted on
nineteen twenty, on nineteen eight, on eighteen eighty three, and
on nineteen twelve, twenty three, this feeling that these beloved
characters are never safe. So going into every gun fight,
I find myself, you know, breathless, trying to track what's happening.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And that when when.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Our man shows up in the car with the Tommy gun,
that was such a sort of frightening image, you know,
the image of that modernity, just like all these guys.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It feels like it's you know, it's decades.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It's like the future showing up in the middle of
Montana with a Tommy gun and to say, you know,
sit down.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Yeah. And there's that moment earlier in the episode, which
like was very satisfying on a light version of that,
when the family is walking down the street and they
talk about the washing machine, you know that there's and
they talk about those things coming in and I don't
know when he when he got out of that car
with you know, I don't know enough about guns, but
I'm gonna call it like an automatic weapon.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Basically.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Suddenly the car and that weapon, it felt so deeply fair.
The fight no longer felt like a fight. And I
couldn't help but think about, you know, how Native American
tribes felt when settlers showed up with guns, when you know,
when they when they had bows and arrows.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
It seems to represent intergenerationally, the Duttons are often outmatched
by technology, by these sort of like legal maneuvers. It
feels like so much of what Market Equities is doing
is trying to make the parameters of their fight unfair.
They're trying to do whatever they can to sort of bring,
you know, the coercive American legal system to bear against
(28:39):
the Duttons. They're sort of trying to they can't win
the fight by the Duttons' rules, so they're trying to
shift the parameters of the fight. And it really feels
like that's what Bronner does in that moment as he says, Okay,
we can't fight your way.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I'm gonna fight my way.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I'm gonna, you know, hit you with a car and
shoot you forty times with a machine gun.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
I thought it was such a bitch and prop.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
It was very much like an Indiana Jones moment, remember
that from the first movie where he pulls out the.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Gun when you know they're the nights with them and
he just pulls up like shut up.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
I got giddy when I saw the prop. It was Now,
I don't know where Shepherd is going to get a
Tommy gun, but whatever.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Details details, I thought it was. It was pretty great.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Well, the choreography in that whole fight sequence, I just
have to say was so breathtaking. Moment to moment, I
have this reaction when I watch things that are like violence.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That is beautifully.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Choreographed, I like start crying, even though I don't feel sad,
And that happened during this fight sequence, even down to
like the detail of the entire family being on one
side of that fallen log and then going to the
other side and just like holding on for this narrow
margin of potential safety.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Jin it sounds like you've got a lot of insight
about Lynette's number two. I've yet to hear a number
two from you. So let's go to a break really quick,
and then when we come back, you're on the hook.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
Okay, Jan, I'm dying to here, get it, dying to
hear what you're number two is.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Okay, listen, my number two. While not technically a death,
it you know, or in the literal sense that we've
been you know, addressing things, Uh, it feels to me
like a death of a dream, a death of a possibility,
a death of and and I think that you know,
this feels like a death for a lot of women,
which is Beth's hysterectomy, and suddenly she cannot have she
(30:51):
cannot have children, and people I know who have been
told they cannot have kids. It feels very much like
a death. So that is my number two because I
cannot think about who Beth is without that loss sort
(31:14):
of interwoven into the animal that she is.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So that's my number two.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Cheery, excellent selection.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
And I remember, I mean the reveal on that was
so huge and I immediately went to the Internet to
look up the history of these clinics on the reservation
and that whole story is steeped in reality, which was
even more depressing. That one really hung on to me.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Okay, are we at number one? Are we going to
talk about number one deaths? I'm ready, I'll go because
mine's I'll just lead here and we'll go around this
way again. Okay, so my number one deaf, though I
do kind of want to change it. My number one
death is Evelyn and Dutton because I think the ultimate
wound is the mother wound.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
It's a really good one, Jen, I mean, the Evelyn
stuff is really I don't think it can be overstated
how much the you know, it feels like this generation
of Dutton's, their grip on this ranch is more precarious
than it's ever been. We see it sort of slipping
out of their fingers. From the very beginning, the ranch
is in crisis, and John Dutton bemoans over and over again, God,
(32:19):
if my wife could see how poorly I've done holding
our family together, if my wife could see the mess
I've made of things. It really feels like he's missing
this anchor. He feels in some ways like a sort
of cursed or haunted, kind of empty man. From the
(32:40):
very beginning of the show, and it really feels like,
you know, the loss of Evelyn also heavily informs the
relationship between Beth and John, which is one of the
critical relationships of the show. Beth's loyalty to John. So
much of what she does, this kind of destructive spree
that she's on, is in John's name, in part because
(33:01):
I think, I think, like you said, she doesn't have
this mother. She feels as though she has so much
responsibility to her father, especially because she feels responsible for
Evelyn's death. You know, we saw in that tragic flashback,
Beth feels responsible for Evelyn's death, and she will go
to the ends of the earth and sort of you know,
(33:22):
spite it all, cut it all down, to try to
redeem you know, what she feels she's responsible for.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
It's really it's very tragic.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Yeah, as you were talking, I was just thinking about
young Rip all of a sudden and of course, and
you know, young Beth and young Jamie, and how there's
a lot of these characters as children feel deeply responsible for,
you know, for deaths of individuals or for you know, Jamie,
(33:53):
the hysterectomy of Beth. That it's just a tremendous amount
of shame to carry into adulthood.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Grew up way too fast.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
All right, I'm going to my number one is all
the deaths at the end of eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, I think my
number one is similarly. Yeah, all these Duttons that have
come before. You know, by the time we get to
the action of Yellowstone, it feels like Kevin Costner John
Dutton is dragging behind the terrible weight of his ancestors.
It feels like he's got all of these skeletons almost
(34:30):
shackled to him. That he's trying so hard to drag
them along with him into the future. And I can't
help but feel like it's feudle. You know, I can't
help but feel like it's a doomed enterprise.
Speaker 6 (34:44):
This list, this is what makes TV so great. I mean,
this is why showrunners should never listen to fans, because
fans will always want to keep everybody alive. But there's
no conflict there, there's no drama. And if you think
back at the best television of your life, it's the
one you think about those great deaths. My one of
my all time favorites is when Josh Charles was killed
off on The Good Wife.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
I still remember it. I still watch it today and
it kills me.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
And so I mean, as sad as it is to
say goodbye to these characters, you need this to keep
the show fresh and interesting. In getting us to talk
about this and do lists like these, it's this great stuff.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yeah, hey, Jeff, since I know that you love death
so much and you were sad to be limited to
five significant ones, can we just get into some of
your your top five faves because they're Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Actually, I made a list of thirty thirty five. We're
going to start at number thirty five, here we go.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I think of myself as a bit of a Yellowstone historian.
So I just want to run down some of the
exciting deaths, you know, exciting defining deaths from the history.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Of the show.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
So Dan Jenkins, oh yeah, more went out for Dan Jenkins.
Dan Jenkins, that was a bit for me of a
moment of oh, how do we go back from this?
Because he had been such a sort of formative importance
and character in the first two seasons of the show.
It felt like he finally saw the light towards the
end of his life. Yeah, you know, he finally understood that.
You know, Kevin Costner John Dutton was maybe right, you know,
(36:13):
he he maybe sided with John Dutton against the Beck
Brothers right at the end of his life, but that
also cost him his life. Speaking of the Beck brothers,
oh man, absolute scumbags, very satis as far as you know,
satisfying deaths go. I would say, the deaths of the
Beck brothers really really got me going, really got me buzzing.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Well, actually, if you want to get into a t
and ay three. And I didn't realize this until recently
when I was reminded of it. You know Don OLIVERI
who plays the vixen, who's like pulling in Jamie right now.
She played Claire Dutton. Remember that whole sequence where her
daughters died and she decides it's not worth living and
she ends up staying there by his grave.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
That was brutal.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
That was freaking Bruce at all, totally.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
So yeah, that's that's up there.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
You can pour one out for her too.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, the past was bad. Overwhelmingly.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
As I'm watching eighteen eighty three and nineteen twenty three,
I'm reminded that the past pretty rough time to be alive.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, not so good, guys.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
As we've been exploring throughout this entire episode, all things
must end. All palaces are temporary palaces, This too shall pass,
and this unfortunately brings us to the conclusion of this episode.
So I'm so so grateful for you out there listening
to us, Lynnette. I'm so grateful that you joined us.
(37:36):
Thank you for bringing your perspective to all of this.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
What a joy.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
And I really hope that you end this episode with
Jen as Teeter saying, you know, sending Jimmy to the
train station.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Do you think you could do that, do a teeter
like a teter.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Dreaming in a fucking translation.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
I'll nice shit.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
There it, Lynette.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I've been begging her to do that for months. I've
been begging her to do the voice for months, and
all you had to do was ask.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I blacked out. What happened?
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Thank you so so much for joining us. We'll see
you real soon.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Don't forget to subscribe to the Official Yellowstone Podcast and
you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
you get your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is a
production of one oh one Studios and Paramount. This episode
was produced by Scott Stone. Brandon Getchis is the head
of Audio for one oh one Studios. Steve Rasis is
the executive vice president of the Paramount Global Podcast Group.
(38:44):
Special thanks to Megan Marcus, Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow,
Jason Reid, and Whitney Baxter from Paramount, and of course
David Glasser, David Huckin and Michelle Newman from one oh
one Studios
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