April 9, 2025 • 47 mins
Morgan DeBaun is a visionary entrepreneur, strategist, and the powerhouse founder and CEO of Blavity, Inc., a digital media empire dedicated to amplifying the voices of Black millennials and equipping them with the tools to thrive. Over the past decade, she has redefined what it means to create economic equity, using storytelling, wealth-building, and advocacy to uplift underrepresented communities. Morgan continues to inspire as a mentor, investor, and speaker. And with her new book, Rewrite Your Rules, she’s guiding professionals to create a bespoke frame for their success—one that prioritizes authenticity, ambition, and financial empowerment on their own terms.
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The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session four or six of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after word from our sponsors. Have you heard the
news Therapy for Black Girls is launching our community on Patreon.
It's your space to be seen, heard, and understood in
(01:17):
an even more connected way. We're exciting to bring you
new segments like so my Therapist said, where we break
down viral therapy hot takes with real mental health professionals,
TBG community chats, where we unpack trending pop culture topics
that have us all in our feelings and opportunities to
connect with other sisters all over the world. Sign up
(01:39):
now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash join Patreon
for all the details about what we're planning and to
be the first to know when the doors are open.
We can't wait to see you inside. Morgan Devon is
a visionary entrepreneur, strategists, and the powerhouse founder and see
(02:00):
of Blavity, Inc. A digital media empire dedicated to amplifying
the voices of black millennials and equipping them with the
tools to thrive. Over the past decade, she has redefined
what it means to create economic equity, using storytelling, wealth building,
and advocacy to uplift underrepresented communities. A trailblazer in media
(02:21):
in tech, Morgan has secured thirteen million dollars in venture
capital for Blavity, expanding its influence across news, culture and
professional development. She's also the force behind Afrotech, one of
the largest black tech conferences in the nation, fostering innovation
and generational wealth in the industry. Morgan continues to inspire
(02:41):
as a mentor, investor, and speaker, and with her new book,
Rewrite Your Rules, she's guiding professionals to create a bespoke
frame for their success, one that prioritizes authenticity, ambition, and
financial empowerment on their own terms. If something resonates with
you while enjoying our conversation, please yere with us on
social media using the hashtag TBG in session. Here's our conversation.
(03:09):
So good to see you again, Morgan.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It's good to see you too.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I always like to do a check in with the
authors because I know what this is, the ramp up
time must be feeling like, So, how are you doing?
How are you taking care of yourself? Right now?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I'm feeling good. I did a rotten bed weekend as
much as one can with a toddler, and yeah, I
just spent some time at home chilling before the travel
schedule gets crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Mm hmmm, yeah, that's good. That's much needed. So tell
me about rewrite the rules. At what moment did you
know I need to write this down and offer it
to the world.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
From an early age, I felt like all the rules
and expectations that were put on me four things I
just wasn't going to follow. Like I was just one
of those people where it's like you tell me to
go left, why can't I go right. I'm happy to
go left, but what's wrong with right? And I think
that was something that helped me along the way as
(04:05):
I was like building businesses and buying companies, was this
idea of like, well, why can't I do it this
other way? Who says that when you first start a
company you have to wait ten or fifteen years before
you acquire another company, Who says that I can't raise money,
who says that I can't do these things? And I
think that it just became part of my success criteria
(04:26):
was being able to say, hmm, if this doesn't work
for me, then I can just change it. And leading
into that has been one of the greatest ways that
I've been able to defy the odds and actually really
also advise and work with people around me.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So we had a podcast episode called Shedding the Shoulds,
and so as I was reading your book, that episode
came to mind because I think that there are a
lot of shoes that we have, especially as black women. Right,
So when you talk about that in your book, what
are some of the shoods you feel like you have
had to unlearned and let go of throughout your life?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So many I mean, I remember the first, this one
more recently was when I was thinking about moving, so
I moved from LA and left the big city and
moved to Nashville, Tennessee. And even to this day, when
I say, when people are like, oh, you live in
New York or you live in LA, and I'm like, no,
I live in Nashville, Tennessee, everyone's like so surprised, because
(05:18):
there's this perception that in order to be successful you
have to live on a big coast or in a
big city, and that if you're not living in one
of those cities, then you're throttling your success to an
extent and you're not maximizing your success. And it was
a bit of an ego hit, like people's initial reactions
like I wasn't expecting it, And so when I would
(05:40):
introduce myself, I would find myself saying, but I just
moved from LA, or like I lived in LA, or
started my company in California in Silicon Valley, to try
to provide context that I was relevant. And then over
time I was like, wait, who gives a shit? Like
I am successful already, Like I'm already doing the things.
I own this company, we're growing, we make an MP
packed every single day. I don't need to justify my
(06:04):
location as a fully remote company to anybody besides my board. Really, So,
I think there's been many times in my life that
I have asked myself, why am I feeling friction? Why
am I feeling like I am over emphasizing something or
my brain is overprocessing something, And oftentimes it's a reaction
(06:26):
to being perceived by somebody else.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So the book is you are the CEO of a
huge company, and I think many people will be surprised
to find that the book is not really just about
being a CEO in terms of entrepreneurship. You talk about
it as being the CEO of our lives. So talk
about some of the things that you feel like you
have learned in business that you feel like really helped
translate to other people taking care of themselves in their lives.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah. I believe everybody should consider themselves the SEE of
their lives because whether they do or not, they are.
They are the person who is making the decisions. They're
managing their own P and L or your profit and
loss statement, how much money's coming in, how much expenses
are going out. They're deciding and building the team around
them and if they're looking for a team or a
village to help them with their kids, their career. That's
(07:12):
an organizational chart, whether you like it or not. And
the more that you can develop a mindset and a
framework to help you think through Okay, I want to
quit my job one day. Okay, great, you're clear. Why
do you want to quit your job? Okay? I want
to quit my job because I want more freedom. Okay,
is quitting your job going to actually give you more freedom?
(07:33):
Let's talk about that going deeper helping people. This book
is designed to help people think through the question underneath
the question, and to help them and give them framework
so they can do that. And what I learned through
Blavity was I started off with as an entrepreneur where
my identity was tied to my company. You could literally
(07:57):
walk down the street in San Francisco and be like hey,
and I would turn around because that's how much it
was tied to who I was. And over time I realized, wait,
there is no end to entrepreneurship. There's no finishing entrepreneurship.
It's a part of my identity. So I need to
figure out how I'm going to have a full life.
A full life full of love and fun and joy
(08:21):
and not just success at work. And that is really
where I said, Okay, you got to do something different,
you got to get off this hamster wheel. For me,
that looked like finding my life partner, having a family.
For me, it looks different than what it might look
like for you or someone else listening to this.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
M hm. Yeah, And it feels like that is kind
of what we talk about in the book about finding
your purpose, right, and like really identifying your purpose and
and not being tied to other people. Right, So your
identity as a business owner, your identity as a mom
or a wife, And so I think that that can
be hard because I think that is kind of what
many of us are socialized to kind of show up
as is like this thing. How do you help the
(08:59):
kind of ease that out, especially because I think it
is interesting to hear you talk about it like on
the other side of the success, right. But I think
a lot of people who will pick this up will
be young women who are kind of wanting to follow
in your footsteps and be successful. So what would you
say to them before they even find themselves needing to
look back and redo some things?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, it's called your purpose principle. It's basically this idea
that your purpose has to be tied to you. And
just like you're saying, your purpose can't be for the
betterment of other people's happiness. It has to be based
off your intrinsic happiness. So let's take a mom for example. Right,
there's a lot of women who they're like, I'm a mom.
(09:38):
That is my thing. Whether you're stay at home mom
or a working mom, doesn't matter. You're still like, I'm
a mom and that's part of my identity. And it's like, Okay, yes,
that is your title, that is your role in parenting,
is part of your responsibility. But you're more than just
one thing and mommy it is not a verb. So
(10:00):
what about being a mom is core to who you are?
Is it nurturing, is it teaching? Is it wellness and
care providing? What is it about the title? And I
think that's what I'm really pushing people in the book
to consider, is not just the title. It's not just
ourble wife. It's I enjoy building somebody else up and
(10:24):
being there for them and listening to them, because it's
based off your enjoyment. And when you start with that
center it's really hard for people. It's very difficult to
do because it actually does require you to be selfish,
and a lot of the world is telling us don't
be selfish, and a lot of people are unhappy, I
think because of that.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So what would you say to people who are listening,
who are thinking, like, Okay, I want to be more selfish.
I want to dive in and feel my you know,
figure out what my purpose is. How do I get
started and figuring that out?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So the first thing is to figure out what you're
doing naturally, like when no one is looking, if no
one was paying you, what could you do all day,
all night. So for me, one of those things is painting.
Like I could sit in with my watercolors. I don't
care how crappy the water colors are. I could just
paint up store because that's just part of who I am,
and it's part of something that I enjoy, is creativity.
(11:14):
Or same thing with gardening. I'm a very bad gardener.
I kill pretty much everything, but I love the attempt.
Like I went to home Depot this weekend. Actually I
went to Low's because home Depot doesn't stanbard De and I,
but I went to Low's I was going to home
Depot and then I was reminded, so I went to
Low's and I bought cucumbers. Is it too early for cucumbers? Yeah, probably,
but I'm traveling, so I wanted to get them in
the ground and just pray that there's no frost because
(11:37):
I want to do it. It makes me happy. So
for anyone who's trying to figure out who am I
and what's my purpose and what is my purpose and
identity outside of these roles or titles that I carry
at work or in my home life, think about what
you're doing naturally. Is it baking? Is it because you
enjoy putting meals together, nourishing meals for your family. Is
(11:59):
it you enjoy driving? I mean, there's no judgment on
what it is that you enjoy. It's really hard to do.
What would you say yours is ooh? Well? What I say?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Mine is I think connecting? Yeah, connecting? Yeah, I think
connecting the dots and connecting people.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I think that's right. You do
things that are irrational because you enjoy the exercise of connectivity.
M yeah. Right. And that has turned into a career,
and that has turned into this show. And that has
turned into all these other things and that's fantastic. But
the reason why it's important to have a purpose principle
is because when something hits the fan and something doesn't
(12:42):
work out, if it's tied to an outcome and not
just tied to the enjoyment, then it becomes really difficult
to work through.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So how do you help And you laid us out
in the book, like how to help people get over
the heel when they do eventually run into things, right,
Because whether you're just running your life or running your business,
there are always obstacles to overcome. So what are some
of the steps for kind of moving past those obstacles.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, So one of the chapters is all about fear,
because fear it's broken down into so many different things.
But for me, fear is broken down into fear of success,
fear of failure. And you have to identify what is
the thing that's holding you back, Like what is that
mindset framework that you need to work through that is
causing you not to reach your full potential or not
(13:28):
to be able to push forward. So there's a variety
of different chapters in the book that identify some of
these things. But let's just talk about fear. So for me,
what I suggest is that you get more comfortable being
bad at things. So I just told you all straight up,
I'm a bad gardener. I still do it. The more
you become comfortable with it, this is through exposure therapy,
(13:49):
then you're able to basically ground yourself in the reality
that it's just not that bad. What's the worst thing
that could happen? They say, no, the cucumber dies, you
don't get the extra upgrade at the hotel room that
you asked for, at the front lobby, whatever it is.
It just helps you practice this idea that failure is
not actually the worst outcome that your brain is thinking through.
(14:11):
And same thing with fear of success. There were times
in my career where I literally would not respond to
emails or go to events because I didn't want the
responsibility of all the people wanting something from me and
those new connections. I'm an introvert, maybe unlike you, I
was like more people budding things for me, no thank you.
(14:33):
So I was literally fearful of people noticing my value
and then wanting to move forward and collaborate or do
something next. Because I didn't feel like I had the
capacity to succeed with those folks. I was partially scared
of operating at that level. I was partially scared of okay,
(14:54):
and then what what if I can't handle all these
things that will come my way if I go to
this conference and I leave the conference from what if
I can't handle all the emails that come in my way.
Once an investor says yeah, I'm interested in this deck,
well I've got to actually respond to the pitch deck
and actually make the call and make the ask. So
I had to work through both my fear of failure
at times and my fear of success. But being able
(15:17):
to actually manage those is what has been my ability
to get to the next level. And I think for
most people listening to this, you are one hundred percent
capable of getting anywhere that you want to go in life.
But just like a CEO, it's your responsibility to make
the tough calls and to fix whatever thing you need
to work through.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
More from our conversation after the break, I'm glad you
bring that up, Morgan, because I think fear of success
is often a bigger fear for people like I think
we talked a lot about a fear of failure. But
I think, you know, we're getting more comfortable talking about
(15:56):
like what happens once you are successful and then there's
this next step, there's this next scaling and you are
no strangers to that, right Like you scaled your companies,
Levity is like one umbrella company with tons of things underneath.
And so what are some of the challenges and how
have you managed to kind of navigate the fear of
success in figuring out how to scale and put yourself
(16:16):
in new rooms and do the continuing expanding that you've done.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
You know, the thing is, at our company, there's a
lot of fear all the time because we are changing
so much. We are constantly evolving, and we're evolving in
a time where the market is changing right underneath this.
So we may say we've got a good plan to
manage traffic and advertising, and then the algorithm changes, right,
and so everybody's been heads down for six months working
(16:40):
on this thing and then that thing doesn't matter anymore,
and that can be really frustrating, and some people have
been like, I don't want to be a part of
this because it's hard because you've put this time in,
the time in is not necessarily getting the outcome that
you asked for or that you wanted. And the question
really is how do you become okay with I'm going
(17:01):
to do my best and I'm going to give it
my best effort, my max effort as I call it
in the book, and then I'm going to let the
chips follower it may the outcome is the outcome, and
I'm going to be okay with the outcome. I'm going
to dress it head on. I'm going to look at
the data, and then I'm going to make a decision
and decide what I want to do next. And then
how do you speed up that innovation cycle? And I
(17:21):
think the thing with success and fear is like the
faster that you can speed up your innovation cycle, the
faster you can make decisions and take action, get a result,
and then start over again. That's actually how people get
to the next level. It's not that they're better at
like the thing, they're better at being successful or they're
(17:42):
better at failure. They do it faster.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
How have you taken care of your mental health throughout
all of these changes, scaling your companies, writing the book,
I mean, there's just so many layers here. What kinds
of things have been really critical for you in terms
of taking care of your mental health.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You know, I'll be honest, I haven't always been good
at it. I mean there's definitely times I'd say you're
three to six at Blavity was pretty rough, rough for me,
rough for our employees, rough time pre COVID, during COVID,
and I talk about that a little bit, like what
do you do when you wake up in the morning
and you're like, I don't even like being the CEO
of this group, Like you guys all hate me, and
I don't like me either. I don't want to make
(18:19):
these decisions. I don't want to be the person deciding
our payroll and our benefits and our running the checks
to the bank. I don't want to do this either.
What do you do when you wake up and you
don't like you? And for me, the first thing that
I practice was meditation, was like just getting centered. Meditation
I think helped me get grounded when I felt like
(18:42):
my brain was all over the place. And then the
second thing was higher help and I hired people who
were experts at things that I had a lot of
anxiety around. Experts in finance, legal, et cetera. And then
eventually I hired a therapist when I was moving from
LA to Nashville and I was making that big transition,
(19:03):
And the reason I made that transition was again because
I was trying to rebalance how I was spending my
time so that I had more time for myself and
less time for the business, which had completely taken over
my life. And I wanted someone to hold me accountable
to that commitment because I knew how easy it was
going to be to just go with the flow and
(19:24):
to go with all the things that people wanted from
me all the time. And so I hired a therapist
that I could walk to her couch, and every two weeks,
I walked to that couch and she would hold me
accountable to what I said I wanted to do. I
did that for about six months until I felt like, Okay,
I feel like we've gone through this transition and we
have those habits. And then I'm kind of one of
(19:47):
those people who hires therapists as like advisors. So I
have an executive coach, and then I also have a
therapist currently that's a relationship therapist, because my fiance is
also a entrepreneur, so we have a lot going and
on in our house, and so just helping us through
that transition of wedding and babies and all of the
(20:08):
things that go into building a life together.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So it sounds like you're really kind of identifying these
six pillars that you talk about in the book, right,
that are necessary for you to be the visionary of
a company and your own life. Can you talk more
about those pillars and how people might do some assessing
in their own lives.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, So the pillar framework, there's six pillars that I
basically live by and I suggest most people live by
them as well. At any given point, you can prioritize
three of them. And this is where people are like,
oh man, you know I would love to you cannot
do all the things. You just can't. Like that whole
saying of like you can have it all but not
At the same time, I completely agree with that. You
(20:45):
absolutely can have it all, but you've got to prioritize
a couple things first and then put everything else in
maintenance mode, just like if you're on a diet, just
put it in a maintenance mode. So the pillars are pretty straightforward. Stability.
How stable do you feel do you feel grounded. Do
you feel like things are chaotic? Freedom? Are you free
(21:09):
to make your own decisions? Are you spending your time
the way you want to spend your time? Is it
dictated by yourself or is it dictated by others? Money?
Do you have the discretionary income that you need or
you want need first and then want passions? What are
you doing just for you? Are you spending time doing
something that makes you happy that is not for monetary
(21:33):
gain but is purely for yourself. Relationships, relationships with God,
relationships with your community, relationships and your personal life. And
then lastly wellness. So how healthy are you? None of
this matters if you don't feel good, if your mind
is all over the place, if you don't feel grounded.
But then also of course taking care of your body
(21:56):
and any given point in any given season, these three
are going to rotate. Out of these six, three of
them are going to rotate to the front. So right now,
for me, freedom is a priority. Relationships, my family is
super important. Got a young kid, he's a sponge, you know,
he needs a lot of my time and attention. And
then I'd probably say stability to some extent. It's a
(22:18):
crazy world right now, and I'm doing my best to
keep our company and our family stable despite everything going
on in the world. Wellness, your girl misses her pilate's appointments,
just canceled one last night. You're doing the best that
we can't out here. I had all intention of going,
but I don't say, oh, man, like, I don't shame
(22:39):
myself for canceling it. I let myself cancel it, you know,
so certain things fall to the wayside. I still have
all intentions of doing it, but I don't beat myself up.
It doesn't mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I'm glad you added that because I was definitely gonna ask, like,
you know, because I think that is a lot of
us get really critical of ourselves, right and like, oh
I messed up my pillars and that kind thing. But
it is about giving yourself grace and like, Okay, I
can start over again tomorrow and figure out what the
priority is going to be.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
You can change your pillars at any given point, and
I recommend it. I do an audit of myself. Every
quarter is just like, okay, what's the priority this upcoming quarter?
Just like in business, every quarter, we've got a game plan,
we have a goal, we know where we're going. We
have risks that we have to actively manage, and we
change our goals as things adjust, as the changes in
(23:26):
the market happen, we might adjust our projections and manage
our own expectations. That's fine, you know, we have to
be willing to be flexible with how we operate in
this world. But it is important, I believe, for everybody
to have some clarity on where they're going.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Mm hmm. And one of the ways that you talk
about a lot in the book by that really offer
you clarity is knowing your data. So what are the numbers?
And as somebody who like doesn't always love to like
deal in the numbers, like it's not my thing, I
was like, she has a point here, Like I can
see it. So talk about the importance of being really
data driven in our lives and like being aware of
our numbers, both in buses, this and personally.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
If there is one thing in the book that will
change your life or thing at all, it's knowing your numbers.
It's knowing what is happening. In reality, too many of
us are just aware that data is around us, aware
that our data is being tracked, aware that there's something
on our watch this clock in our steps. We're aware
(24:24):
of it, but we're not using it to make informed
decisions that could really make our lives easier. And this
isn't just about work. This is in wellness, This is
in relationships. I give examples in the book on how
you can apply this to every single pillar. But the
point of it is to get more comfortable saying and
being really sitting in the truth of this is where
(24:45):
I am. I can't tell you how many entrepreneurs ask
me for advice or coaching and I say, well, how
much money did you make last month? And they can't
tell me. They can't tell me, Or I'd say, well,
in the last six months, what's your product that's gotten
you the best results, like has the highest product margin.
(25:06):
They can't tell me. They can tell me what they want.
They can tell me where they think they're going. Before
we can even talk about where you're going. I need
to understand what's working already so that we can build
from your strengths, which is going to be easier than
building from your weaknesses. Same thing with customers, Same thing
with my sales team. When I'm coaching and advising our
sales team and they're coming up with these big sales plans.
(25:28):
They want to make a million dollars this year, two
million dollars this year. Whatever. Don't send me a lead
list that's from scratch. Show me what you made last year.
Make me a list to all the accounts from last
year and what they spent last year, and then make
a decision on is this going to grow? Is this
going to decline? Then that's your baseline. Now we can
figure out what the gap is from there. Okay, well
(25:49):
you're already at six fifty, so now we just got
to get another three to fifty to be able to
fill it in. Right, So knowing your data just really
helps provide clarity on an action realistic plan instead of
a pie in the sky pipe dream that so many
people are walking around with.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So you've kind of alluded to this a couple of times, Morgan,
but Blevity, it sounds like really took off for you
in twenty sixteen following the death of Michael Brown, right
like you kind of found yourself feeling like, Okay, I
want to be doing more. I mean, we find ourselves
now where DEI is being slashed and so many rollbacks
and so as the CEO the company that you lead
(26:27):
right blevity, you find yourself I think at a very
interesting intersection. So can you talk about how you think
through the outside world and how it impacts what happens
in your actual company.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
One hundred percent. Man, it is really rough right now
for everyone. It's rough for small business owners that are
managing the political climate and the increasing costs of labor
and increasing costs of just cost of goods, whether you're
materials because you're in construction, or the cost of the
things that are being shipped in because you're in retail. Whatever.
(26:58):
It's expensive doing this today, more expensive today than it
was two years ago, and certainly more expensive than five
or ten years ago. At the same time, there's things
that are outside of our control that are happening related
to the political climate. For most black businesses, they had
their best year ever in twenty twenty two and maybe
twenty twenty three, maybe early twenty twenty one to twenty
(27:21):
twenty three. They were getting local news, they were getting
white people buying their products. They never had white customers before.
I mean, they were getting the spotlight for blavity. It
was an interesting time because we were also dealing with
COVID and we have a huge events business. Right we
have the largest tech conference in the world that's for
(27:43):
black audiences. We have a huge festival business, blavity Fest,
which is coming to Atlanta in a few months, and
we had to figure out how do you keep the
community alive in a virtual world. So when it comes
to managing macro risks to figure out first what's in
your control, which is pretty much nothing, and then you
(28:03):
have to decide, Okay, how risky am I going to
be in this season? Am I going to try to
beat theachts? Or am I going to try to basically
make the market. So for me, that looks like managing
my expectations around goals. There's been years where I'm like,
double it, double the conference, double our revenue, double our profits.
(28:27):
This year, I was like, honestly, cheaper the keeper. I'd
be happy if we did what we did last year,
which is a little bit more profitable. I'm not even
gonna sweat You'll just give me what you gave me
last year, and I'm gonna figure out how to manage
the costs on the back. Like I have to manage
my expectations, because that's what realistic is looking like for today,
and that helps me also manage the mental of my employees.
(28:49):
If I go to an employee and I say you
got to double affrotech in a market in which all
of our clients are pulling back on DEI, they're gonna
look at me like I'm nuts, and they're gonna have a
lot of anxiety. So part of my responsibility as a
leader is to also set realistic expectations for the people
around me so they can do their best work and
they can be in their code of genius. So when
(29:10):
it comes to DENI and even someone who might be
listening to this and say like, Okay, well what do
I do? Here's the thing. There's some fundamental businesses and
there's fundamental services and values that aren't going to change.
What I mean by that, if your product is really good,
it doesn't matter that you were black owned or not
Being black owned during a time where there's a lot
(29:31):
of spotlight on us was helpful because it allowed us
to get equal opportunity to access to the opportunity. It
gave us access to the funding, It gave us access
to more customers. It gave us access to retail shelves.
But once you get on the shelves, your product should
be good enough that you should be able to stay there.
(29:51):
And here's the thing, nothing is required of these companies.
These are for profit entities. So this entitlement to equal
retention not performing at the same level as the other companies,
they're not required for you to stay there because this
is a for profit business. What what was required was equal
opportunity to get into the door. Now there's all these
(30:13):
reasons for systemic racism where a lot of companies can't
have equal value. Maybe they don't have access to funding,
they don't have this right team, there's all these other reasons,
but that's not that company's job. Their job was to
give you access to the shelf at Target. It's up
to you to stay there. And I think what we're
saying now is that all that grace that was given
it's just completely gone. But the real businesses that were
(30:35):
really strong, they're still there. Just like Afrotech is going
to exist. We're gonna be fine. Am I gonna make
as much money as I used to? Probably not, but
it's going to exist and it's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So you would encourage entrepreneurs and people who maybe have
been thinking about like, Okay, how do I keep this
thing afloat to really focus on, like making a good product.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I mean, I know it's not so basic, but yeah,
like is it good? Take black out of it? Is
your product good? Is your service good? Are you delivering
on the promise for your customer? If you are a
curly girl, you know I use Camille Rose on my
hair this morning. It's a good product. Like it works.
(31:16):
This is softy, no crunch, it's good. So I don't
care if this could be owned by a random Chinese man.
It's not as black owned, but like it could be
owned by somebody, it wouldn't matter. I use olaplex why
because it's good. I don't know who owns Olaplex is
probably a private equity firm. I do not care because
it works. Right, So be really excellent at what you do,
(31:39):
so much so that people can't take it away from
you when that opportunity becomes not trending anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Got it more from our conversation after the break. Have
you heard the news Therapy from Black Girls is launching
our community on Patreon. It's your space to be seen, heard,
and un in an even more connected way. We're excited
to bring you new segments like so my Therapist said,
(32:06):
where we break down viral therapy, hot takes with real
mental health professionals, TBG community chats where we unpack trending
pop culture topics that have us all in our feelings,
and opportunities to connect with other sisters all over the world.
Sign up now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash
join Patreon for all the details about what we're planning
(32:28):
and to be the first to know when the doors
are open. We can't wait to see you inside. So
one of the key to your success has also been
really leaning into community and like making the right hires.
So I was really excited to hear you talk more
about like meeting Jackie, I think, and kind of being
(32:48):
the person who really helps to kind of ignite some
of those early hires for blavity. And I think many
of us are socialized to be very quiet about the
things we're struggling with, right and so I'm thinking, like,
if you had not share with Jackie that I really
need help in this area, you might not have had
those hires that you did. How can people get more
comfortable kind of peeling back the layers and being you know,
(33:10):
more honest and transparent about the things we're struggling with
in our businesses.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
You have to assume that most people are good and
most people want to help if they can, and if
you tell them exactly what you need, people will show
up for you. And I've learned that even on this
book tour, you know, I've had people text me and
be like, I know you're not going to ask, so
this is what I'm going to do to help you
with your book tour, you know, And I'm like, you
are so sweet, this is so helpful, you know. And
I mean even you're like, yeah, of course, let's talk
(33:35):
right Like, So I think first it's just starting from
a place of abundance of most people want to help
if they can't, and so it's on you to identify
how other people can help and make it easy for them. Now,
my girlfriend Jackie, she was a receptionist at the time,
and she is just so lovable and she is so warm,
(33:57):
and she is so she like loves people. She is
that is like one of her core pillars is like
I'm obsessed with just interesting people and I'm like, I
would prefer to sit in the darken code and sit
with my laptop and figure out how to make this
make sense. And so I was just like really struggling,
(34:20):
and she was on her couch because I was raising
money and I couldn't afford hotel room. So she lived
in Oakland, So I was raising money in the Bay
and I was just complaining and she was like, I
can help you with that. I can't help you find
people to work for you. And even people that she
hired are still with us at Blavity today ten years later.
(34:41):
I mean, that's how good of a recruiter she is,
and fundamentally changed our entire business because she was really
good at persuading people to take this really, really risky
step in their career to work for a twenty six
year old black girl from Saint Louis who had barely
raised half a million dollars full time and be a
(35:02):
part of this mission and this vision of this thing
that we were trying to build. And I'm forever grateful
to her. But I think the key of this story
is you don't know who's in your own rolodex. I mean,
how many people do we go to high school or
college with and we look on LinkedIn and we're like, damn, girl,
I didn't know you did that because you're still thinking
of them in their high school or college days. You're
(35:24):
not necessarily thinking them as somebody who's now the senior
media buyer at Laoreel, who could be your first sponsor
for your event that you're doing on the side, right,
So part of it is just teaching people to reframe
their mindset around bartering and around building relationships and using
the tribe that they have. You don't always have to
spend money. Now. Jackie is a boss Silicon Valley recruiter.
(35:48):
Like I said, she went from receptionist to recruiter. We
were her first clients, so we were her first case study, right,
and that helped her on her trajectory. So you also
do never know who you're helping by giving them an
opportunity to help you.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
What kinds of and things need to be put in
place when you are working with people kind of in
your circle, right, Because I think it's different if you
just hire somebody off a fiver or something. If it's
your girl, well you got to be careful. I think
sometimes that can be excellent, like in your case, and
sometimes not so good. So how do you think through
kind of protecting the relationship and your business when you're
hiring friends and family. Maybe yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I mean there was a time when we fired each other.
You know, Jackie is no longer recruiter for Blavity, And
first things first, when I could afford to pay her,
I did. I really tried to make sure that we
had a clear transaction. I believe we had a contract,
so we had to mutual understanding. And the second thing
that I did was make sure that it wasn't just
me making decisions, like she went through the process of
(36:42):
recruiting for other people, and they were evaluating her at
the face level of being a recruiter, regardless of my
relationship with her, but at least the best of my ability,
And I think that was really helpful. So I wasn't
the only person interacting with her, and I think that
allowed us to have some objectivity of like, when is
this relationship to a point where I'm not a good
client for you and you're not a good recruiter for us,
and it's time for us to expand those options. Because
(37:03):
we had other people in the room. So I think
for anyone who's evaluating, when is it time to you know,
I got the homie helping me with legal I've got
the homie, like coaching me on the side or whatever
it is. Figure out a way to be objective and
make sure you have some sort of contract or some
sort of milestone in place so that there's a natural end.
(37:25):
So you might say a time frame three months, six months,
or it might be if you're doing something like, hey,
this person's going to help me with interior designing my house. Okay, cool.
Like provide some sort of cap and I talk about
this in the book, but like, provide some sort of
boundaries and cap to this relationship so that you know
you're not shortchanging yourself and you're not shortchanging somebody you
also care about.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, that's important. So something else you talk about is
like the differences between contentment and happiness and how contentment
really should be a goal for us as opposed to happiness.
What are the differences for those things? In your mind?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
When people ask you, you know, I want to be happy,
I want to feel happy. People typically only say that
when they don't feel happy, Like when people are like,
how's it going, I'm like, everything's going good because I'm content.
So I think that we have conflated the two. But
contentment is really what you're striving for, which is I
(38:20):
feel like peace with my day to day. I wake
up every morning and I feel joy, and I have
little moments throughout my day where everything is like perfect
is great, not too high and not too low. There
are moments of happiness that I feel, but I do
not strive to be happy as a state. I strive
(38:42):
to be content, and I think that that also has
managed my expectations of what it's like to live a
really stable, grounded life, full of love, full of family,
full of challenges at work and personal challenges. That that
is a part of my life, something that I'm grateful for,
to have such a full life where I can have
(39:03):
those ups and downs, but never to be back in
the place where I was when I first started the company,
where the lows felt just terrible, pick me off the floor.
I cannot move on lows, and where the highs were,
oh my gosh, we had a million dollars in the bank,
like where we going, let's pop bottles too high and
(39:23):
too low. I prefer to be right in the middle
and to have different moments. Hopefully that resonates with people.
I think it's a bit counterintuitive, but when you feel
that level of peace, you know you've made it because
you're like wow, like, yeah, life is good. I mean,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah, I definitely think we have completed the two. I
think a lot of people are chasing happiness, and it's
sometimes it's really hard to quantify that. But you know,
I think good visualization exercises, like if you were happy tomorrow,
what would that look like, help people get closer to contentment,
which is what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, And usually it's when I ask people that question,
usually they need to fix one of their pillars, Like
for them to be happy, it's because they feel unstable,
or for them to be happy, they need a little
bit more money to be able to make ends meets like,
it's usually because something is off. It's usually not like
a plus side. It's usually fixing something that's not working
the way that they want it to work.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah. So as much as you are encouraging people to
rewrite their rules, you even share it in the book,
you're dad not being super happy when you're like, I'm
leaving this till all a valid job, And I can
imagine other readers will also identify with like people in
their lives not being super excited or like really understanding
this new vision they're writing for themselves. What would you
(40:41):
say to people who are facing some pushback from people
in their lives around this new vision they have for themselves.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I think it's important to communicate it to the people
around you, because there's something in the magical that happens.
When you start to share with people your intentions of
change and where you're trying to go, people magically start
to help you. People magically start to help you move
these mountains that are in front of you. At the
same time, when you do communicate these things in these big,
juicy visions of your life and where you want to go,
(41:11):
You're going to get people who say, why are you
taking on this risk? Everything is fine, You've worked so
hard to get to where you are. Why do you
want to change? And unfortunately that was my own father.
There were times when I didn't even come home from
La or San Francisco because I could not stand sitting
at the dinner table and my dad calling blavity a hobby.
(41:34):
It would drive me nuts. I would cry, It would
drive me nuts. It was so painful because I'm sacrificing
everything for this vision and you're calling a hobby and
it's not did my job. I'm not making any money,
but it's my job. And I think that you have
to learn to live for yourself. I think that it
(41:58):
took me until my miss in twenties to really realize
and accept I'm the one that wakes up every morning
and has to live my life. I'm the one that
has to sit with the consequences of my choices. I'm
the one doing these things. It's not my mom and
my dad anymore. That disassociation from that expectation that we
(42:19):
have as a child and parent relationship. Some people get
it earlier, for better or worse, in high school, some
people when they went to college. For me, it took
longer to live for myself and not have that expectation
of them. Now, I still have core values that are
part of our family kind of upbringing. But my core
values of our upbringing I'm actually still honoring, which is
(42:41):
help other people do the right thing, support black folks
and with the work that you do, and be of service.
Like he wanted me to be a doctor. If he
didn't read the book yet, that's TLDR. Like every other
black dad in America. He wanted to be a doctor
or a lawyer, and I was like, yeah, no, I'm
(43:01):
not going to do that. I don't think it was
until I got into maybe I was in like a
Black Enterprise magazine or Essence magazine. Mind you, I had
already raised like a couple million, but I finally got
in one of the magazines, and I think he was
then like, Oh, Okay, this looks like it's real, and
now he's my greatest fan. Like my dad travels to
(43:23):
Nigeria and brings blavity stickers all the way to Canos.
So people will change their minds. But it was important,
I think for me to figure out for myself who
I was, regardless of my parents' expectations.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
So how are you hoping that readers will engage with
rewrite your rules? What are you hoping they do on
the other end of reading.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I'm really excited for people to read this book. I
designed it as a toolkit. I designed it for people
to use this to help them make decisions about how
they're going to move through the world, so that they
can move with more success and more ease, and hopefully
faster than what they would have done if they hadn't
had this tool in this resource. My hope is also
(44:02):
that people revisit this book when they're in seasons will change.
So maybe you go through it in one time and
because you're trying to figure out how to quit your
job and be a full time entrepreneur, and then throughout
the book you realize, actually, I want to keep my
day job because I actually value stability, but I'm going
to take my discretionary income from my day job and
investing in my side hustle. And then your side hustle
(44:24):
starts to get so big and you're like, okay, wait,
maybe it's time for me to quit again. Let me
read it back through the book. Let me look at
my team again, let me look at my data again,
let me evaluate what's holding me back. Right, Like, my
goal is that this is the book that people are
able to revisit and revisit these steps most importantly throughout
their lives because it's what I do and it's allowed me,
I think, to have a lot more ease with how
(44:45):
I operate.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So where can we stay connected with you? Where can
we get our copy of the book? And what do
you have coming up with levity that you want to share?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, you can go to rewrite your Rules dot com.
I also have a worksheet for people who submit their receipts.
So if you want kind of basically the workbook to
be able to show you how to do these steps,
you can get that on my website Rewrite your Rules
dot Com. Then I also have a podcast where I
talk through my journey. It's called The Journey by Morgan Debon,
and I just walk through the ups, the downs. I
(45:14):
talk about di I talk about scaling businesses, I talk
about getting married, I talk about everything kind of going on.
Because I think it's important for people to share how
they live out loud and operate out loud. You know,
we all have a privilege of being able to operate
in the space at this level. It's important that we
share it and give it back to other people as well.
(45:34):
So I look forward to hearing everybody's success stories and
sending me the dms of all their frameworks and how
they're applying it in their everyday lives.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Perfect and where can we find you on social You.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Can find me at Morgan Debon everywhere on the internet.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Beautiful. We sure to include all of that in the
show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time
with us today.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Wagon thanks for having me. Of course, I'm so.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Glad I'm working could join us for today's conversation to
learn more about her and rewrite your rules. Be sure
to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot
com slash Session four five, and don't forget to text
two of your girls right now and tell them to
check out the episode. Did you know? You can leave
us a voicemail with your questions for the podcast. If
you want to suggest movies or books for us to review,
(46:21):
or even give thoughts around topics you'd like to hear
discussed on the podcast. Drop us a message at Memo
dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us
know what's on your mind. We just might feature it
on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapists in
your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls
dot com slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis,
(46:43):
Indie Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.
Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.
I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all
real soon. Take good care
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session four or six of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after word from our sponsors. Have you heard the
news Therapy for Black Girls is launching our community on Patreon.
It's your space to be seen, heard, and understood in
(01:17):
an even more connected way. We're exciting to bring you
new segments like so my Therapist said, where we break
down viral therapy hot takes with real mental health professionals,
TBG community chats, where we unpack trending pop culture topics
that have us all in our feelings and opportunities to
connect with other sisters all over the world. Sign up
(01:39):
now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash join Patreon
for all the details about what we're planning and to
be the first to know when the doors are open.
We can't wait to see you inside. Morgan Devon is
a visionary entrepreneur, strategists, and the powerhouse founder and see
(02:00):
of Blavity, Inc. A digital media empire dedicated to amplifying
the voices of black millennials and equipping them with the
tools to thrive. Over the past decade, she has redefined
what it means to create economic equity, using storytelling, wealth building,
and advocacy to uplift underrepresented communities. A trailblazer in media
(02:21):
in tech, Morgan has secured thirteen million dollars in venture
capital for Blavity, expanding its influence across news, culture and
professional development. She's also the force behind Afrotech, one of
the largest black tech conferences in the nation, fostering innovation
and generational wealth in the industry. Morgan continues to inspire
(02:41):
as a mentor, investor, and speaker, and with her new book,
Rewrite Your Rules, she's guiding professionals to create a bespoke
frame for their success, one that prioritizes authenticity, ambition, and
financial empowerment on their own terms. If something resonates with
you while enjoying our conversation, please yere with us on
social media using the hashtag TBG in session. Here's our conversation.
(03:09):
So good to see you again, Morgan.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It's good to see you too.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I always like to do a check in with the
authors because I know what this is, the ramp up
time must be feeling like, So, how are you doing?
How are you taking care of yourself? Right now?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I'm feeling good. I did a rotten bed weekend as
much as one can with a toddler, and yeah, I
just spent some time at home chilling before the travel
schedule gets crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Mm hmmm, yeah, that's good. That's much needed. So tell
me about rewrite the rules. At what moment did you
know I need to write this down and offer it
to the world.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
From an early age, I felt like all the rules
and expectations that were put on me four things I
just wasn't going to follow. Like I was just one
of those people where it's like you tell me to
go left, why can't I go right. I'm happy to
go left, but what's wrong with right? And I think
that was something that helped me along the way as
(04:05):
I was like building businesses and buying companies, was this
idea of like, well, why can't I do it this
other way? Who says that when you first start a
company you have to wait ten or fifteen years before
you acquire another company, Who says that I can't raise money,
who says that I can't do these things? And I
think that it just became part of my success criteria
(04:26):
was being able to say, hmm, if this doesn't work
for me, then I can just change it. And leading
into that has been one of the greatest ways that
I've been able to defy the odds and actually really
also advise and work with people around me.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So we had a podcast episode called Shedding the Shoulds,
and so as I was reading your book, that episode
came to mind because I think that there are a
lot of shoes that we have, especially as black women. Right,
So when you talk about that in your book, what
are some of the shoods you feel like you have
had to unlearned and let go of throughout your life?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So many I mean, I remember the first, this one
more recently was when I was thinking about moving, so
I moved from LA and left the big city and
moved to Nashville, Tennessee. And even to this day, when
I say, when people are like, oh, you live in
New York or you live in LA, and I'm like, no,
I live in Nashville, Tennessee, everyone's like so surprised, because
(05:18):
there's this perception that in order to be successful you
have to live on a big coast or in a
big city, and that if you're not living in one
of those cities, then you're throttling your success to an
extent and you're not maximizing your success. And it was
a bit of an ego hit, like people's initial reactions
like I wasn't expecting it, And so when I would
(05:40):
introduce myself, I would find myself saying, but I just
moved from LA, or like I lived in LA, or
started my company in California in Silicon Valley, to try
to provide context that I was relevant. And then over
time I was like, wait, who gives a shit? Like
I am successful already, Like I'm already doing the things.
I own this company, we're growing, we make an MP
packed every single day. I don't need to justify my
(06:04):
location as a fully remote company to anybody besides my board. Really, So,
I think there's been many times in my life that
I have asked myself, why am I feeling friction? Why
am I feeling like I am over emphasizing something or
my brain is overprocessing something, And oftentimes it's a reaction
(06:26):
to being perceived by somebody else.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So the book is you are the CEO of a
huge company, and I think many people will be surprised
to find that the book is not really just about
being a CEO in terms of entrepreneurship. You talk about
it as being the CEO of our lives. So talk
about some of the things that you feel like you
have learned in business that you feel like really helped
translate to other people taking care of themselves in their lives.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah. I believe everybody should consider themselves the SEE of
their lives because whether they do or not, they are.
They are the person who is making the decisions. They're
managing their own P and L or your profit and
loss statement, how much money's coming in, how much expenses
are going out. They're deciding and building the team around
them and if they're looking for a team or a
village to help them with their kids, their career. That's
(07:12):
an organizational chart, whether you like it or not. And
the more that you can develop a mindset and a
framework to help you think through Okay, I want to
quit my job one day. Okay, great, you're clear. Why
do you want to quit your job? Okay? I want
to quit my job because I want more freedom. Okay,
is quitting your job going to actually give you more freedom?
(07:33):
Let's talk about that going deeper helping people. This book
is designed to help people think through the question underneath
the question, and to help them and give them framework
so they can do that. And what I learned through
Blavity was I started off with as an entrepreneur where
my identity was tied to my company. You could literally
(07:57):
walk down the street in San Francisco and be like hey,
and I would turn around because that's how much it
was tied to who I was. And over time I realized, wait,
there is no end to entrepreneurship. There's no finishing entrepreneurship.
It's a part of my identity. So I need to
figure out how I'm going to have a full life.
A full life full of love and fun and joy
(08:21):
and not just success at work. And that is really
where I said, Okay, you got to do something different,
you got to get off this hamster wheel. For me,
that looked like finding my life partner, having a family.
For me, it looks different than what it might look
like for you or someone else listening to this.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
M hm. Yeah, And it feels like that is kind
of what we talk about in the book about finding
your purpose, right, and like really identifying your purpose and
and not being tied to other people. Right, So your
identity as a business owner, your identity as a mom
or a wife, And so I think that that can
be hard because I think that is kind of what
many of us are socialized to kind of show up
as is like this thing. How do you help the
(08:59):
kind of ease that out, especially because I think it
is interesting to hear you talk about it like on
the other side of the success, right. But I think
a lot of people who will pick this up will
be young women who are kind of wanting to follow
in your footsteps and be successful. So what would you
say to them before they even find themselves needing to
look back and redo some things?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, it's called your purpose principle. It's basically this idea
that your purpose has to be tied to you. And
just like you're saying, your purpose can't be for the
betterment of other people's happiness. It has to be based
off your intrinsic happiness. So let's take a mom for example. Right,
there's a lot of women who they're like, I'm a mom.
(09:38):
That is my thing. Whether you're stay at home mom
or a working mom, doesn't matter. You're still like, I'm
a mom and that's part of my identity. And it's like, Okay, yes,
that is your title, that is your role in parenting,
is part of your responsibility. But you're more than just
one thing and mommy it is not a verb. So
(10:00):
what about being a mom is core to who you are?
Is it nurturing, is it teaching? Is it wellness and
care providing? What is it about the title? And I
think that's what I'm really pushing people in the book
to consider, is not just the title. It's not just
ourble wife. It's I enjoy building somebody else up and
(10:24):
being there for them and listening to them, because it's
based off your enjoyment. And when you start with that
center it's really hard for people. It's very difficult to
do because it actually does require you to be selfish,
and a lot of the world is telling us don't
be selfish, and a lot of people are unhappy, I
think because of that.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So what would you say to people who are listening,
who are thinking, like, Okay, I want to be more selfish.
I want to dive in and feel my you know,
figure out what my purpose is. How do I get
started and figuring that out?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So the first thing is to figure out what you're
doing naturally, like when no one is looking, if no
one was paying you, what could you do all day,
all night. So for me, one of those things is painting.
Like I could sit in with my watercolors. I don't
care how crappy the water colors are. I could just
paint up store because that's just part of who I am,
and it's part of something that I enjoy, is creativity.
(11:14):
Or same thing with gardening. I'm a very bad gardener.
I kill pretty much everything, but I love the attempt.
Like I went to home Depot this weekend. Actually I
went to Low's because home Depot doesn't stanbard De and I,
but I went to Low's I was going to home
Depot and then I was reminded, so I went to
Low's and I bought cucumbers. Is it too early for cucumbers? Yeah, probably,
but I'm traveling, so I wanted to get them in
the ground and just pray that there's no frost because
(11:37):
I want to do it. It makes me happy. So
for anyone who's trying to figure out who am I
and what's my purpose and what is my purpose and
identity outside of these roles or titles that I carry
at work or in my home life, think about what
you're doing naturally. Is it baking? Is it because you
enjoy putting meals together, nourishing meals for your family. Is
(11:59):
it you enjoy driving? I mean, there's no judgment on
what it is that you enjoy. It's really hard to do.
What would you say yours is ooh? Well? What I say?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Mine is I think connecting? Yeah, connecting? Yeah, I think
connecting the dots and connecting people.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I think that's right. You do
things that are irrational because you enjoy the exercise of connectivity.
M yeah. Right. And that has turned into a career,
and that has turned into this show. And that has
turned into all these other things and that's fantastic. But
the reason why it's important to have a purpose principle
is because when something hits the fan and something doesn't
(12:42):
work out, if it's tied to an outcome and not
just tied to the enjoyment, then it becomes really difficult
to work through.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So how do you help And you laid us out
in the book, like how to help people get over
the heel when they do eventually run into things, right,
Because whether you're just running your life or running your business,
there are always obstacles to overcome. So what are some
of the steps for kind of moving past those obstacles.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, So one of the chapters is all about fear,
because fear it's broken down into so many different things.
But for me, fear is broken down into fear of success,
fear of failure. And you have to identify what is
the thing that's holding you back, Like what is that
mindset framework that you need to work through that is
causing you not to reach your full potential or not
(13:28):
to be able to push forward. So there's a variety
of different chapters in the book that identify some of
these things. But let's just talk about fear. So for me,
what I suggest is that you get more comfortable being
bad at things. So I just told you all straight up,
I'm a bad gardener. I still do it. The more
you become comfortable with it, this is through exposure therapy,
(13:49):
then you're able to basically ground yourself in the reality
that it's just not that bad. What's the worst thing
that could happen? They say, no, the cucumber dies, you
don't get the extra upgrade at the hotel room that
you asked for, at the front lobby, whatever it is.
It just helps you practice this idea that failure is
not actually the worst outcome that your brain is thinking through.
(14:11):
And same thing with fear of success. There were times
in my career where I literally would not respond to
emails or go to events because I didn't want the
responsibility of all the people wanting something from me and
those new connections. I'm an introvert, maybe unlike you, I
was like more people budding things for me, no thank you.
(14:33):
So I was literally fearful of people noticing my value
and then wanting to move forward and collaborate or do
something next. Because I didn't feel like I had the
capacity to succeed with those folks. I was partially scared
of operating at that level. I was partially scared of okay,
(14:54):
and then what what if I can't handle all these
things that will come my way if I go to
this conference and I leave the conference from what if
I can't handle all the emails that come in my way.
Once an investor says yeah, I'm interested in this deck,
well I've got to actually respond to the pitch deck
and actually make the call and make the ask. So
I had to work through both my fear of failure
at times and my fear of success. But being able
(15:17):
to actually manage those is what has been my ability
to get to the next level. And I think for
most people listening to this, you are one hundred percent
capable of getting anywhere that you want to go in life.
But just like a CEO, it's your responsibility to make
the tough calls and to fix whatever thing you need
to work through.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
More from our conversation after the break, I'm glad you
bring that up, Morgan, because I think fear of success
is often a bigger fear for people like I think
we talked a lot about a fear of failure. But
I think, you know, we're getting more comfortable talking about
(15:56):
like what happens once you are successful and then there's
this next step, there's this next scaling and you are
no strangers to that, right Like you scaled your companies,
Levity is like one umbrella company with tons of things underneath.
And so what are some of the challenges and how
have you managed to kind of navigate the fear of
success in figuring out how to scale and put yourself
(16:16):
in new rooms and do the continuing expanding that you've done.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
You know, the thing is, at our company, there's a
lot of fear all the time because we are changing
so much. We are constantly evolving, and we're evolving in
a time where the market is changing right underneath this.
So we may say we've got a good plan to
manage traffic and advertising, and then the algorithm changes, right,
and so everybody's been heads down for six months working
(16:40):
on this thing and then that thing doesn't matter anymore,
and that can be really frustrating, and some people have
been like, I don't want to be a part of
this because it's hard because you've put this time in,
the time in is not necessarily getting the outcome that
you asked for or that you wanted. And the question
really is how do you become okay with I'm going
(17:01):
to do my best and I'm going to give it
my best effort, my max effort as I call it
in the book, and then I'm going to let the
chips follower it may the outcome is the outcome, and
I'm going to be okay with the outcome. I'm going
to dress it head on. I'm going to look at
the data, and then I'm going to make a decision
and decide what I want to do next. And then
how do you speed up that innovation cycle? And I
(17:21):
think the thing with success and fear is like the
faster that you can speed up your innovation cycle, the
faster you can make decisions and take action, get a result,
and then start over again. That's actually how people get
to the next level. It's not that they're better at
like the thing, they're better at being successful or they're
(17:42):
better at failure. They do it faster.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
How have you taken care of your mental health throughout
all of these changes, scaling your companies, writing the book,
I mean, there's just so many layers here. What kinds
of things have been really critical for you in terms
of taking care of your mental health.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You know, I'll be honest, I haven't always been good
at it. I mean there's definitely times I'd say you're
three to six at Blavity was pretty rough, rough for me,
rough for our employees, rough time pre COVID, during COVID,
and I talk about that a little bit, like what
do you do when you wake up in the morning
and you're like, I don't even like being the CEO
of this group, Like you guys all hate me, and
I don't like me either. I don't want to make
(18:19):
these decisions. I don't want to be the person deciding
our payroll and our benefits and our running the checks
to the bank. I don't want to do this either.
What do you do when you wake up and you
don't like you? And for me, the first thing that
I practice was meditation, was like just getting centered. Meditation
I think helped me get grounded when I felt like
(18:42):
my brain was all over the place. And then the
second thing was higher help and I hired people who
were experts at things that I had a lot of
anxiety around. Experts in finance, legal, et cetera. And then
eventually I hired a therapist when I was moving from
LA to Nashville and I was making that big transition,
(19:03):
And the reason I made that transition was again because
I was trying to rebalance how I was spending my
time so that I had more time for myself and
less time for the business, which had completely taken over
my life. And I wanted someone to hold me accountable
to that commitment because I knew how easy it was
going to be to just go with the flow and
(19:24):
to go with all the things that people wanted from
me all the time. And so I hired a therapist
that I could walk to her couch, and every two weeks,
I walked to that couch and she would hold me
accountable to what I said I wanted to do. I
did that for about six months until I felt like, Okay,
I feel like we've gone through this transition and we
have those habits. And then I'm kind of one of
(19:47):
those people who hires therapists as like advisors. So I
have an executive coach, and then I also have a
therapist currently that's a relationship therapist, because my fiance is
also a entrepreneur, so we have a lot going and
on in our house, and so just helping us through
that transition of wedding and babies and all of the
(20:08):
things that go into building a life together.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So it sounds like you're really kind of identifying these
six pillars that you talk about in the book, right,
that are necessary for you to be the visionary of
a company and your own life. Can you talk more
about those pillars and how people might do some assessing
in their own lives.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, So the pillar framework, there's six pillars that I
basically live by and I suggest most people live by
them as well. At any given point, you can prioritize
three of them. And this is where people are like,
oh man, you know I would love to you cannot
do all the things. You just can't. Like that whole
saying of like you can have it all but not
At the same time, I completely agree with that. You
(20:45):
absolutely can have it all, but you've got to prioritize
a couple things first and then put everything else in
maintenance mode, just like if you're on a diet, just
put it in a maintenance mode. So the pillars are pretty straightforward. Stability.
How stable do you feel do you feel grounded. Do
you feel like things are chaotic? Freedom? Are you free
(21:09):
to make your own decisions? Are you spending your time
the way you want to spend your time? Is it
dictated by yourself or is it dictated by others? Money?
Do you have the discretionary income that you need or
you want need first and then want passions? What are
you doing just for you? Are you spending time doing
something that makes you happy that is not for monetary
(21:33):
gain but is purely for yourself. Relationships, relationships with God,
relationships with your community, relationships and your personal life. And
then lastly wellness. So how healthy are you? None of
this matters if you don't feel good, if your mind
is all over the place, if you don't feel grounded.
But then also of course taking care of your body
(21:56):
and any given point in any given season, these three
are going to rotate. Out of these six, three of
them are going to rotate to the front. So right now,
for me, freedom is a priority. Relationships, my family is
super important. Got a young kid, he's a sponge, you know,
he needs a lot of my time and attention. And
then I'd probably say stability to some extent. It's a
(22:18):
crazy world right now, and I'm doing my best to
keep our company and our family stable despite everything going
on in the world. Wellness, your girl misses her pilate's appointments,
just canceled one last night. You're doing the best that
we can't out here. I had all intention of going,
but I don't say, oh, man, like, I don't shame
(22:39):
myself for canceling it. I let myself cancel it, you know,
so certain things fall to the wayside. I still have
all intentions of doing it, but I don't beat myself up.
It doesn't mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I'm glad you added that because I was definitely gonna ask, like,
you know, because I think that is a lot of
us get really critical of ourselves, right and like, oh
I messed up my pillars and that kind thing. But
it is about giving yourself grace and like, Okay, I
can start over again tomorrow and figure out what the
priority is going to be.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
You can change your pillars at any given point, and
I recommend it. I do an audit of myself. Every
quarter is just like, okay, what's the priority this upcoming quarter?
Just like in business, every quarter, we've got a game plan,
we have a goal, we know where we're going. We
have risks that we have to actively manage, and we
change our goals as things adjust, as the changes in
(23:26):
the market happen, we might adjust our projections and manage
our own expectations. That's fine, you know, we have to
be willing to be flexible with how we operate in
this world. But it is important, I believe, for everybody
to have some clarity on where they're going.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Mm hmm. And one of the ways that you talk
about a lot in the book by that really offer
you clarity is knowing your data. So what are the numbers?
And as somebody who like doesn't always love to like
deal in the numbers, like it's not my thing, I
was like, she has a point here, Like I can
see it. So talk about the importance of being really
data driven in our lives and like being aware of
our numbers, both in buses, this and personally.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
If there is one thing in the book that will
change your life or thing at all, it's knowing your numbers.
It's knowing what is happening. In reality, too many of
us are just aware that data is around us, aware
that our data is being tracked, aware that there's something
on our watch this clock in our steps. We're aware
(24:24):
of it, but we're not using it to make informed
decisions that could really make our lives easier. And this
isn't just about work. This is in wellness, This is
in relationships. I give examples in the book on how
you can apply this to every single pillar. But the
point of it is to get more comfortable saying and
being really sitting in the truth of this is where
(24:45):
I am. I can't tell you how many entrepreneurs ask
me for advice or coaching and I say, well, how
much money did you make last month? And they can't
tell me. They can't tell me, Or I'd say, well,
in the last six months, what's your product that's gotten
you the best results, like has the highest product margin.
(25:06):
They can't tell me. They can tell me what they want.
They can tell me where they think they're going. Before
we can even talk about where you're going. I need
to understand what's working already so that we can build
from your strengths, which is going to be easier than
building from your weaknesses. Same thing with customers, Same thing
with my sales team. When I'm coaching and advising our
sales team and they're coming up with these big sales plans.
(25:28):
They want to make a million dollars this year, two
million dollars this year. Whatever. Don't send me a lead
list that's from scratch. Show me what you made last year.
Make me a list to all the accounts from last
year and what they spent last year, and then make
a decision on is this going to grow? Is this
going to decline? Then that's your baseline. Now we can
figure out what the gap is from there. Okay, well
(25:49):
you're already at six fifty, so now we just got
to get another three to fifty to be able to
fill it in. Right, So knowing your data just really
helps provide clarity on an action realistic plan instead of
a pie in the sky pipe dream that so many
people are walking around with.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So you've kind of alluded to this a couple of times, Morgan,
but Blevity, it sounds like really took off for you
in twenty sixteen following the death of Michael Brown, right
like you kind of found yourself feeling like, Okay, I
want to be doing more. I mean, we find ourselves
now where DEI is being slashed and so many rollbacks
and so as the CEO the company that you lead
(26:27):
right blevity, you find yourself I think at a very
interesting intersection. So can you talk about how you think
through the outside world and how it impacts what happens
in your actual company.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
One hundred percent. Man, it is really rough right now
for everyone. It's rough for small business owners that are
managing the political climate and the increasing costs of labor
and increasing costs of just cost of goods, whether you're
materials because you're in construction, or the cost of the
things that are being shipped in because you're in retail. Whatever.
(26:58):
It's expensive doing this today, more expensive today than it
was two years ago, and certainly more expensive than five
or ten years ago. At the same time, there's things
that are outside of our control that are happening related
to the political climate. For most black businesses, they had
their best year ever in twenty twenty two and maybe
twenty twenty three, maybe early twenty twenty one to twenty
(27:21):
twenty three. They were getting local news, they were getting
white people buying their products. They never had white customers before.
I mean, they were getting the spotlight for blavity. It
was an interesting time because we were also dealing with
COVID and we have a huge events business. Right we
have the largest tech conference in the world that's for
(27:43):
black audiences. We have a huge festival business, blavity Fest,
which is coming to Atlanta in a few months, and
we had to figure out how do you keep the
community alive in a virtual world. So when it comes
to managing macro risks to figure out first what's in
your control, which is pretty much nothing, and then you
(28:03):
have to decide, Okay, how risky am I going to
be in this season? Am I going to try to
beat theachts? Or am I going to try to basically
make the market. So for me, that looks like managing
my expectations around goals. There's been years where I'm like,
double it, double the conference, double our revenue, double our profits.
(28:27):
This year, I was like, honestly, cheaper the keeper. I'd
be happy if we did what we did last year,
which is a little bit more profitable. I'm not even
gonna sweat You'll just give me what you gave me
last year, and I'm gonna figure out how to manage
the costs on the back. Like I have to manage
my expectations, because that's what realistic is looking like for today,
and that helps me also manage the mental of my employees.
(28:49):
If I go to an employee and I say you
got to double affrotech in a market in which all
of our clients are pulling back on DEI, they're gonna
look at me like I'm nuts, and they're gonna have a
lot of anxiety. So part of my responsibility as a
leader is to also set realistic expectations for the people
around me so they can do their best work and
they can be in their code of genius. So when
(29:10):
it comes to DENI and even someone who might be
listening to this and say like, Okay, well what do
I do? Here's the thing. There's some fundamental businesses and
there's fundamental services and values that aren't going to change.
What I mean by that, if your product is really good,
it doesn't matter that you were black owned or not
Being black owned during a time where there's a lot
(29:31):
of spotlight on us was helpful because it allowed us
to get equal opportunity to access to the opportunity. It
gave us access to the funding, It gave us access
to more customers. It gave us access to retail shelves.
But once you get on the shelves, your product should
be good enough that you should be able to stay there.
(29:51):
And here's the thing, nothing is required of these companies.
These are for profit entities. So this entitlement to equal
retention not performing at the same level as the other companies,
they're not required for you to stay there because this
is a for profit business. What what was required was equal
opportunity to get into the door. Now there's all these
(30:13):
reasons for systemic racism where a lot of companies can't
have equal value. Maybe they don't have access to funding,
they don't have this right team, there's all these other reasons,
but that's not that company's job. Their job was to
give you access to the shelf at Target. It's up
to you to stay there. And I think what we're
saying now is that all that grace that was given
it's just completely gone. But the real businesses that were
(30:35):
really strong, they're still there. Just like Afrotech is going
to exist. We're gonna be fine. Am I gonna make
as much money as I used to? Probably not, but
it's going to exist and it's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So you would encourage entrepreneurs and people who maybe have
been thinking about like, Okay, how do I keep this
thing afloat to really focus on, like making a good product.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I mean, I know it's not so basic, but yeah,
like is it good? Take black out of it? Is
your product good? Is your service good? Are you delivering
on the promise for your customer? If you are a
curly girl, you know I use Camille Rose on my
hair this morning. It's a good product. Like it works.
(31:16):
This is softy, no crunch, it's good. So I don't
care if this could be owned by a random Chinese man.
It's not as black owned, but like it could be
owned by somebody, it wouldn't matter. I use olaplex why
because it's good. I don't know who owns Olaplex is
probably a private equity firm. I do not care because
it works. Right, So be really excellent at what you do,
(31:39):
so much so that people can't take it away from
you when that opportunity becomes not trending anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Got it more from our conversation after the break. Have
you heard the news Therapy from Black Girls is launching
our community on Patreon. It's your space to be seen, heard,
and un in an even more connected way. We're excited
to bring you new segments like so my Therapist said,
(32:06):
where we break down viral therapy, hot takes with real
mental health professionals, TBG community chats where we unpack trending
pop culture topics that have us all in our feelings,
and opportunities to connect with other sisters all over the world.
Sign up now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash
join Patreon for all the details about what we're planning
(32:28):
and to be the first to know when the doors
are open. We can't wait to see you inside. So
one of the key to your success has also been
really leaning into community and like making the right hires.
So I was really excited to hear you talk more
about like meeting Jackie, I think, and kind of being
(32:48):
the person who really helps to kind of ignite some
of those early hires for blavity. And I think many
of us are socialized to be very quiet about the
things we're struggling with, right and so I'm thinking, like,
if you had not share with Jackie that I really
need help in this area, you might not have had
those hires that you did. How can people get more
comfortable kind of peeling back the layers and being you know,
(33:10):
more honest and transparent about the things we're struggling with
in our businesses.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
You have to assume that most people are good and
most people want to help if they can, and if
you tell them exactly what you need, people will show
up for you. And I've learned that even on this
book tour, you know, I've had people text me and
be like, I know you're not going to ask, so
this is what I'm going to do to help you
with your book tour, you know, And I'm like, you
are so sweet, this is so helpful, you know. And
I mean even you're like, yeah, of course, let's talk
(33:35):
right Like, So I think first it's just starting from
a place of abundance of most people want to help
if they can't, and so it's on you to identify
how other people can help and make it easy for them. Now,
my girlfriend Jackie, she was a receptionist at the time,
and she is just so lovable and she is so warm,
(33:57):
and she is so she like loves people. She is
that is like one of her core pillars is like
I'm obsessed with just interesting people and I'm like, I
would prefer to sit in the darken code and sit
with my laptop and figure out how to make this
make sense. And so I was just like really struggling,
(34:20):
and she was on her couch because I was raising
money and I couldn't afford hotel room. So she lived
in Oakland, So I was raising money in the Bay
and I was just complaining and she was like, I
can help you with that. I can't help you find
people to work for you. And even people that she
hired are still with us at Blavity today ten years later.
(34:41):
I mean, that's how good of a recruiter she is,
and fundamentally changed our entire business because she was really
good at persuading people to take this really, really risky
step in their career to work for a twenty six
year old black girl from Saint Louis who had barely
raised half a million dollars full time and be a
(35:02):
part of this mission and this vision of this thing
that we were trying to build. And I'm forever grateful
to her. But I think the key of this story
is you don't know who's in your own rolodex. I mean,
how many people do we go to high school or
college with and we look on LinkedIn and we're like, damn, girl,
I didn't know you did that because you're still thinking
of them in their high school or college days. You're
(35:24):
not necessarily thinking them as somebody who's now the senior
media buyer at Laoreel, who could be your first sponsor
for your event that you're doing on the side, right,
So part of it is just teaching people to reframe
their mindset around bartering and around building relationships and using
the tribe that they have. You don't always have to
spend money. Now. Jackie is a boss Silicon Valley recruiter.
(35:48):
Like I said, she went from receptionist to recruiter. We
were her first clients, so we were her first case study, right,
and that helped her on her trajectory. So you also
do never know who you're helping by giving them an
opportunity to help you.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
What kinds of and things need to be put in
place when you are working with people kind of in
your circle, right, Because I think it's different if you
just hire somebody off a fiver or something. If it's
your girl, well you got to be careful. I think
sometimes that can be excellent, like in your case, and
sometimes not so good. So how do you think through
kind of protecting the relationship and your business when you're
hiring friends and family. Maybe yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I mean there was a time when we fired each other.
You know, Jackie is no longer recruiter for Blavity, And
first things first, when I could afford to pay her,
I did. I really tried to make sure that we
had a clear transaction. I believe we had a contract,
so we had to mutual understanding. And the second thing
that I did was make sure that it wasn't just
me making decisions, like she went through the process of
(36:42):
recruiting for other people, and they were evaluating her at
the face level of being a recruiter, regardless of my
relationship with her, but at least the best of my ability,
And I think that was really helpful. So I wasn't
the only person interacting with her, and I think that
allowed us to have some objectivity of like, when is
this relationship to a point where I'm not a good
client for you and you're not a good recruiter for us,
and it's time for us to expand those options. Because
(37:03):
we had other people in the room. So I think
for anyone who's evaluating, when is it time to you know,
I got the homie helping me with legal I've got
the homie, like coaching me on the side or whatever
it is. Figure out a way to be objective and
make sure you have some sort of contract or some
sort of milestone in place so that there's a natural end.
(37:25):
So you might say a time frame three months, six months,
or it might be if you're doing something like, hey,
this person's going to help me with interior designing my house. Okay, cool.
Like provide some sort of cap and I talk about
this in the book, but like, provide some sort of
boundaries and cap to this relationship so that you know
you're not shortchanging yourself and you're not shortchanging somebody you
also care about.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, that's important. So something else you talk about is
like the differences between contentment and happiness and how contentment
really should be a goal for us as opposed to happiness.
What are the differences for those things? In your mind?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
When people ask you, you know, I want to be happy,
I want to feel happy. People typically only say that
when they don't feel happy, Like when people are like,
how's it going, I'm like, everything's going good because I'm content.
So I think that we have conflated the two. But
contentment is really what you're striving for, which is I
(38:20):
feel like peace with my day to day. I wake
up every morning and I feel joy, and I have
little moments throughout my day where everything is like perfect
is great, not too high and not too low. There
are moments of happiness that I feel, but I do
not strive to be happy as a state. I strive
(38:42):
to be content, and I think that that also has
managed my expectations of what it's like to live a
really stable, grounded life, full of love, full of family,
full of challenges at work and personal challenges. That that
is a part of my life, something that I'm grateful for,
to have such a full life where I can have
(39:03):
those ups and downs, but never to be back in
the place where I was when I first started the company,
where the lows felt just terrible, pick me off the floor.
I cannot move on lows, and where the highs were,
oh my gosh, we had a million dollars in the bank,
like where we going, let's pop bottles too high and
(39:23):
too low. I prefer to be right in the middle
and to have different moments. Hopefully that resonates with people.
I think it's a bit counterintuitive, but when you feel
that level of peace, you know you've made it because
you're like wow, like, yeah, life is good. I mean,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah, I definitely think we have completed the two. I
think a lot of people are chasing happiness, and it's
sometimes it's really hard to quantify that. But you know,
I think good visualization exercises, like if you were happy tomorrow,
what would that look like, help people get closer to contentment,
which is what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, And usually it's when I ask people that question,
usually they need to fix one of their pillars, Like
for them to be happy, it's because they feel unstable,
or for them to be happy, they need a little
bit more money to be able to make ends meets like,
it's usually because something is off. It's usually not like
a plus side. It's usually fixing something that's not working
the way that they want it to work.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah. So as much as you are encouraging people to
rewrite their rules, you even share it in the book,
you're dad not being super happy when you're like, I'm
leaving this till all a valid job, And I can
imagine other readers will also identify with like people in
their lives not being super excited or like really understanding
this new vision they're writing for themselves. What would you
(40:41):
say to people who are facing some pushback from people
in their lives around this new vision they have for themselves.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I think it's important to communicate it to the people
around you, because there's something in the magical that happens.
When you start to share with people your intentions of
change and where you're trying to go, people magically start
to help you. People magically start to help you move
these mountains that are in front of you. At the
same time, when you do communicate these things in these big,
juicy visions of your life and where you want to go,
(41:11):
You're going to get people who say, why are you
taking on this risk? Everything is fine, You've worked so
hard to get to where you are. Why do you
want to change? And unfortunately that was my own father.
There were times when I didn't even come home from
La or San Francisco because I could not stand sitting
at the dinner table and my dad calling blavity a hobby.
(41:34):
It would drive me nuts. I would cry, It would
drive me nuts. It was so painful because I'm sacrificing
everything for this vision and you're calling a hobby and
it's not did my job. I'm not making any money,
but it's my job. And I think that you have
to learn to live for yourself. I think that it
(41:58):
took me until my miss in twenties to really realize
and accept I'm the one that wakes up every morning
and has to live my life. I'm the one that
has to sit with the consequences of my choices. I'm
the one doing these things. It's not my mom and
my dad anymore. That disassociation from that expectation that we
(42:19):
have as a child and parent relationship. Some people get
it earlier, for better or worse, in high school, some
people when they went to college. For me, it took
longer to live for myself and not have that expectation
of them. Now, I still have core values that are
part of our family kind of upbringing. But my core
values of our upbringing I'm actually still honoring, which is
(42:41):
help other people do the right thing, support black folks
and with the work that you do, and be of service.
Like he wanted me to be a doctor. If he
didn't read the book yet, that's TLDR. Like every other
black dad in America. He wanted to be a doctor
or a lawyer, and I was like, yeah, no, I'm
(43:01):
not going to do that. I don't think it was
until I got into maybe I was in like a
Black Enterprise magazine or Essence magazine. Mind you, I had
already raised like a couple million, but I finally got
in one of the magazines, and I think he was
then like, Oh, Okay, this looks like it's real, and
now he's my greatest fan. Like my dad travels to
(43:23):
Nigeria and brings blavity stickers all the way to Canos.
So people will change their minds. But it was important,
I think for me to figure out for myself who
I was, regardless of my parents' expectations.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
So how are you hoping that readers will engage with
rewrite your rules? What are you hoping they do on
the other end of reading.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I'm really excited for people to read this book. I
designed it as a toolkit. I designed it for people
to use this to help them make decisions about how
they're going to move through the world, so that they
can move with more success and more ease, and hopefully
faster than what they would have done if they hadn't
had this tool in this resource. My hope is also
(44:02):
that people revisit this book when they're in seasons will change.
So maybe you go through it in one time and
because you're trying to figure out how to quit your
job and be a full time entrepreneur, and then throughout
the book you realize, actually, I want to keep my
day job because I actually value stability, but I'm going
to take my discretionary income from my day job and
investing in my side hustle. And then your side hustle
(44:24):
starts to get so big and you're like, okay, wait,
maybe it's time for me to quit again. Let me
read it back through the book. Let me look at
my team again, let me look at my data again,
let me evaluate what's holding me back. Right, Like, my
goal is that this is the book that people are
able to revisit and revisit these steps most importantly throughout
their lives because it's what I do and it's allowed me,
I think, to have a lot more ease with how
(44:45):
I operate.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So where can we stay connected with you? Where can
we get our copy of the book? And what do
you have coming up with levity that you want to share?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, you can go to rewrite your Rules dot com.
I also have a worksheet for people who submit their receipts.
So if you want kind of basically the workbook to
be able to show you how to do these steps,
you can get that on my website Rewrite your Rules
dot Com. Then I also have a podcast where I
talk through my journey. It's called The Journey by Morgan Debon,
and I just walk through the ups, the downs. I
(45:14):
talk about di I talk about scaling businesses, I talk
about getting married, I talk about everything kind of going on.
Because I think it's important for people to share how
they live out loud and operate out loud. You know,
we all have a privilege of being able to operate
in the space at this level. It's important that we
share it and give it back to other people as well.
(45:34):
So I look forward to hearing everybody's success stories and
sending me the dms of all their frameworks and how
they're applying it in their everyday lives.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Perfect and where can we find you on social You.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Can find me at Morgan Debon everywhere on the internet.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Beautiful. We sure to include all of that in the
show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time
with us today.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Wagon thanks for having me. Of course, I'm so.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Glad I'm working could join us for today's conversation to
learn more about her and rewrite your rules. Be sure
to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot
com slash Session four five, and don't forget to text
two of your girls right now and tell them to
check out the episode. Did you know? You can leave
us a voicemail with your questions for the podcast. If
you want to suggest movies or books for us to review,
(46:21):
or even give thoughts around topics you'd like to hear
discussed on the podcast. Drop us a message at Memo
dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us
know what's on your mind. We just might feature it
on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapists in
your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls
dot com slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis,
(46:43):
Indie Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.
Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.
I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all
real soon. Take good care
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