January 28, 2025 • 33 mins
Starting the year with a number of executive orders targeting diversity, equity, and inclusion as well as anti-affirmative action legislation impacting schools around the country, there are so many questions around how and where to get quality education for Black students. To help us get a better understanding of what solutions are out there, Aziah Siid and Quintessa Williams talk about a number of issues they have reported on for Word In Black’s education beat.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
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(00:55):
Starting a year with a number of executive orders targeting diversity, equity,
and inclusion, as well as anti affirmative action legislation impacting
schools around the country, there are so many questions around
how and where to get quality education for black students.
To help us get a better understanding of what solutions
are out there, Aja Said and Quintessa Williams of Word
(01:16):
in Black join us to talk about a number of
the issues they've reported on for the Word in Black's
Education Beach. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation.
Please share with us on social media using the hashtag
tvgu Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining
(01:38):
me today, Aja and Quintessa. I'm very excited to talk
about all things education with you. I would love for
us to start by hearing you share a little bit
more about your backgrounds and what you specifically do at
Word in Black. We'll start with you, Aja.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
My name is Aja said, I am the K through
twelve education reporter for Word in Black. Before I have
into what I do. Word in Black is a national
newsroom founded by ten legendary black publishers from across the nation,
and our reporting is focused on confronting racial inequalities and
amplifying solutions that Black America needs to know and here
(02:15):
to bring about equity and justice. And so that description
right there basically sums up what I do within the
K through twelve sector of it. We take a look
at what educators, teachers, other professionals are doing to help
improve learning and just equitable solutions for Black students all
across the country.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
What about you, Quinteta, I am the education data reporter
for Word in Black. I currently have been here since
last July, and my work involves pretty much the same
thing that Aja explained, but it also using data to
kind of explain the inequities. So it definitely delves a
(02:57):
little bit into more of the numerical disparities and what
those mean for black students across the nation.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And we know, you know, there's been so much talk
about like just the field of journalism and you know,
students being interested in going in journalism, but what's the
job market looking like? And so I'd love to kind
of start also by hearing your thoughts on you know,
like your journey in journalism and why journalism education is important,
and maybe some of your influences in the field.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I am a proud graduate of Morgan State University,
and I had the opportunity to have a really immersive
experience while I was there, and similar to other journalism
programs that some of my friends have attended at other HBCUs,
having the opportunity to learn from the blackest and the
brightest in the field and getting in front of the camera,
(03:50):
behind the camera, exposed to audio. I never knew how
to create a website and so just being able to
do that as a student journalist kind of solidify the
fact that, yeah, I want to do this for a living,
and this is something that I know people my age
may not think is a sustainable life because we hear,
like you said, about oh, there's not enough money, there's
(04:12):
not enough opportunity. You know, it's predominantly white, all the
things that will tell you not to do it. But
when you do get in the field and you are
experiencing what we do every day and making a difference
and having people like Therapy for Black Girls reach out
to us and want to have these conversations, it kind
of makes all the complaints and the smaller picture go
(04:34):
away when you know that what we do matters. And
I think that's the biggest thing when choosing a career,
choose something that matters to you. And I was able
to do that out the gate, and some of my
biggest inspirations, I have to say, would be one of
my advisors at that time, Milton Kent. He was a
longtime writer, a sports writer, but he was able to
(04:56):
just use that knowledge and kind of show us there
are so many different ways to use what you know
besides writing about sports, and so he's definitely one of
them absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And for me, I told Ozha this before, I wish
that I had had the opportunity to have went to
an HBCU. I went to a PWI here in Florida
where I live, and it really made me wish that
I had the opportunity to have went to an HBCU
because a lot of the work that I do now
dels so much into the black experience. And I think
(05:28):
with my writing career, when I begin to write about
the issues and the inequalities that we face, something just
kind of clicked in me, and I do wish that
I had gotten that HBCU experience. But working with Word
in Black has kind of been like my HBCU experience
because I get to work with ASJA and learn so
(05:50):
much more about the educational inequalities.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So the Supreme Court decision to repeal affirmative Action has
left many questioning how colleges and universities going to approach
diversity in admission specifically going forward. I wonder how you
anticipate this ruling in any kind of corresponding new executive orders.
How do you think that will impact Black students' access
to higher education.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So the unfortunate thing is that it's for the pwi's
and the what they consider the elite institutions. It's really
going to depend on for them if they are willing
to still champion diversity at the end of the day.
Is this something that still matters to you. Are you
(06:35):
still going to champion this when it's unpopular, when everybody
else is telling you to tear down these programs, and
are you still going to fight for it. So a
lot that side of it is definitely going to depend
on what decisions that they make, because some pwi's have
kept some of their DEI programs and some of their
(06:55):
enrollment is still consistent At Yale, Brown Universities drop significantly,
but some are still working to make sure that their
data and black student enrollment is still consistent. So for
that is definitely going to depend on at the end
of the day, are they still willing to champion it
(07:17):
Given that situation. The good news is that there are
so many other alternatives like freedom schools that are working
with students to try and give them a sense of
black more black representation. If this school is not offering
this class or this program, come here. You know. There
(07:38):
are freedom schools being held at churches at other locations
where people are trying to I think it was around
last year they did a report from Florida that said
that students were giving up their saturdays to go and
learn about black history because their schools where they are
are no longer teaching black history. And so I think
(07:59):
there are so many other alternatives like freedom schools. And
then you also have educators who are making a presence
on social media where a lot of us are spending
our time, and so they are trying to make this
content relevant and accessible, because that's another issue that black
students face as well, is lack of access to resources.
(08:19):
So you have those educators going on social media like
TikTok and Instagram to try to make it a resource
in itself, if that makes sense. So there's a good
and a bad to it in that regard.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I'll definitely second Quintessa on her second point about options
and just opening your mind and your palette to it.
At first, it was an option if you wanted to
do the PWY, if you wanted to do the HBCU life.
That was something that with affirmative action, we felt was
feasible for all of us. And now that it has
(08:54):
been stripped away, you are forced to kind of think
about those alternatives, and I think it's important for us
to put that on the forefront as well, that there
are other places that we can get our information. There
are other places and other outlets that people are teaching
and learning, and so familiarize yourself with that. There's a
ton of experts who are creating entities within themselves, creating
(09:15):
schools themselves because they see through their work, through their research,
that there is a need for it, and affirmative action
being stripped down to shows that. So I would definitely
seck at that point about exploring your options.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You brought up a great point, Aza. You know, last
year we saw HBCUs, like Howard and Spelman talk about
a record high applications, and so it does feel like
there is this trend of students pivoting more towards HBCUs.
I wonder, Quintessa, can you talk about the numbers there.
Have you seen anything interesting in the data that speaks
to this is becoming more of a thing.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Definitely, Howard and fam you saw record applications. I know
for Howard, I think it was like a two hundred
percent higher record of applications. Fam you as well, from
what I can remember, it's about ten HBCUs that have
seen record highs and enrollment. And so their concern right
now is making sure that all of those students feel
(10:12):
welcome and that all those students have a place to go.
So like, for example, in Atlanta, we have about eight
HBCUs in Atlanta. So with Spelman and more House getting
these record numbers, they're doing the hard work of trying
to figure out, not figure out, but let them know
that you have a place to go. Don't feel because
(10:32):
it might be not space here at Warhouse, that you
don't have a place at Clark Atlanta. So I feel
like they're doing the hard work to speak to these
record numbers.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, and you know, I think one of the things
that it feels like comes up every year. HBCUs tend
to be smaller, right, like they historically have been smaller,
so accommodations in terms of residence halls and like the
dining halls, like they just tend to be smaller and
can't accommodate a large number. And so I wonder if
you've seen anything in terms of legislation or interesting innovative
(11:04):
projects that maybe some campuses are doing to try to
keep up with the amount of students who may be
wanting to pursue HBCU educations in the near future.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, I know, for for institutes like Morgan, we see
President David Wilson. He's been honored a few times for
the work that he's done in expanding the campus and
creating just state of the art facilities that they had
not seen prior to him becoming president. And so within
(11:33):
I think he's been president for about twelve years now,
twelve to thirteen years now. Within those years, he was
able to build a whole new housing development for that
influx of students, so that the communities understand the need
for the funding, the state understands the need for the
funding to create places in beautiful spaces, not just any
random place for our students to be housed or to sleep.
(11:57):
You see that those projects are happening and they are successful,
and you know, it's a reflection of the quality of
our campuses and a reflection of what matters.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So I'd love to hear more about some of your
reporting that has focused in the past couple of years.
We've seen countless attacks on critical race theory, although that
is not taught in K through twelve, But we know
that has resulted in like banned books and like limiting
conversations around history and just lots of things that students
actually do need to know. And I'm wondering if you've
seen and how are you thinking about like executive orders
(12:30):
in this new administration, how that impacts the experience and
the quality of education for K through twelve students.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
While you're absolutely right, it's been a mess. I joined
Word in Black in twenty twenty two, where they also
saw a record amount of banned books and band titles
all across the country in libraries and student classrooms, and
so I kind of joined when things were really really heated.
But in terms of impact, it's pretty obvious when it
(13:04):
comes to taking away or not giving it at all,
the history and the knowledge that all students, not just
black students, deserve to know about the full extent of
American history, and when the efforts to take them out
of schools or keep them out of schools is as
intense as it is right now, we Word in Black
have focused on outlets and other resources that are trying
(13:28):
to fill in those gaps because students got to know
the information somewhere you know, these libraries have to have
these books stopped somewhere, and so I'm thinking about this
organization called barbershop Books. You go into a local barbershop
and you might have a shelf full of top band
titles and books for you know, you who come in
(13:50):
and get their haircut to get those books. And so,
you know, you have these really innovative ideas that are
popping up all across the country to kind of fill
in that gap because it is impacting our students. And
there are students who is interested in knowing these things
and they want the knowledge, and they want to seek
the knowledge beyond just you know, Google. And so for
(14:11):
a while there there was this push to make sure
that African American AP courses were in schools, and we
saw all of the teachers' unions come together for that.
We've seen a ton of local grassroot organizations push for
that because it's needed. And you see a lot of
community within within this whole era of CRT and banned books.
(14:34):
You see the communities and you see them banding together
and making sure that if they aren't being taught in school,
they're being taught at their local church about it. If
they don't have the books that they need inside the classroom,
they could go get it at their local barbershop. And
so you know, that has been the sole focus of
(14:54):
our coverage of this whole ordeal, because we want to
make sure that they understand once again that there are
other options, you know, especially when it comes to legislation
and pushing back on it. As just a regular average
person who just wants to go to school. That might
be a little difficult for a sixteen year old. But
going to the corner where you see a little free
(15:16):
library that provides free books all across the country. They
have like little pop ups. That's something that you can
do as a sixteen year old that you know might help.
You can go get that book and recycle it and
reuse it and give it to a friend, And there
are ways to get around it. But obviously we want
this coverage in school. We want this curriculum in our
(15:38):
schools for.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Students, absolutely. And I second that I was just point.
I feel like the beautiful thing that came out of
the banning of curriculum and books is that you saw
everyone else band together and kind of say, Okay, this
is necessary, let's try to fight for this to be
put in schools. But with them banning things, if we
(16:00):
end up at a wrong turn there, then let's create
these freedom schools, these like Aja mentioned, these little free libraries,
these programs outside of these schools. It was unfortunate, but
a beautiful thing came out of it, as far as
saying like, okay, they banned this, but then we banded together,
if that makes sense, And.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
If I can add one more thing I just thought about. Actually,
last Black History Month, I did a ton of coverage on,
you know, places in Georgia, in Florida that were literally
sending home permission slips to learn about black history, to
watch a video on Martin Luther King. The most you know,
the most basic lessons that they should know became optional
(16:43):
and parents were able to opt their students out of
it if they tried. And so you see a lot
of things like that happening. But I will say when
they do, a lot of people up north aren't understanding
that these are the realities. Because their curriculum isted, they're
a lot more protected than a lot of these other
conservative states. And so when things like this continue to happen,
(17:06):
it kind of puts just how heavy the k through
told world is on the forefront for everybody, because that
may not be the first conversation you have when you
wake up, like, oh, it's optional for kids to learn
about black history in Florida. But last year it was
a really big thing that made people realize like, oh,
this is really real, you know, and this is not
(17:27):
something that's just impacting one student or one district or no,
it's affecting whole states. It's affecting whole districts and in
parts of this country that you may not care to
know or even realize you should know until it's viral
on your ex or your Instagram timeline. And so I
would definitely say impact wise, we're seeing, We're seeing people
(17:51):
are learning, and they're hearing, and they want to be
more progressive and want to be a part of these
conversations that they may not have been before because it
didn't directly impact them.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
More from our conversation after the break, Yeah, I mean,
and there are lots of downsides to banning books, but
we know, you know, it sometimes takes lots of tries
to find things kids like to read, right, and so
you know, one thing that happens when books are banned
(18:23):
is that kids maybe are not as interested in reading altogether.
Last year, the National Assessment of Education Progress reported that
just seventeen percent of black fourth graders were literate. And
so I would love to hear you talk anything you
know about, like what some of the biggest factors impacting
literacy in the black community are and then what do
we see down the line as students are entering college
(18:46):
or into the workforce the impact that this difficulty with
literacy has.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I'll take that while one of the biggest things would
definitely be chronically absent students, which are students who are
absent more than ten times out of the school year.
And so when our students aren't showing up for school,
they're obviously not getting the learning that they need. They're
not getting the excitement and the energy and the entertainment
(19:11):
around learning that they might experience had they been in school.
And so that is a really big thing about getting
our students to school so that they can actually learn.
And so that's really big And another one I definitely
want to note, there's just a lot of external factors
in terms of their personal life. A lot of our
students are homeless, and homelessness is obviously a major issue.
(19:34):
Youth homelessness is a major issue that needs to be
addressed before we can even address why students aren't going
to school. Some of them have nowhere to sleep, some
of them haven't had a real meal in days, and
so there are a lot of external factors within a
student's personal life that schools and other people who can
assist them need to address before they even talk about
(19:57):
getting them to learn. And so when you to shift
the conversation away from hey, all of our black fourth
graders are literate versus hey, most of our fourth graders
didn't eat last night. You know, it's all about the
narrative of the conversation that they choose to have. And obviously,
different places, different districts have certain things that is specifically
(20:19):
related to them. For some districts it's transportation. You know,
a lot of our students can't even get to school.
They have to travel over an hour to get there.
And so these are all factors. Everything is a factor,
to say the least, and through our reporting at Word
in Black, you kind of see that when even the
smallest things might have huge implications on our students and
(20:41):
how they learn what they want to learn about, what
they're interested in learning about and so yeah, that definitely
will have an impact, and it can have an impact
on the young adults entering high school, middle school, all
the way up until college if our educators and our
system in general don't do enough to it sooner rather
(21:01):
than later.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Yes, And I also wanted to add, I think there's
also an over emphasis on standardized testing. I think that
that is something that has really impacted black students, given
that the standards that they set for these standardized testing
requirements are not culturally competent. So you set these standards
and then expect black students to meet them, or you say,
(21:26):
you know, you have to meet this to be considered
literally efficient if that makes sense, efficient enough. But if
what you're using to set these standards are not culturally
competent enough for black students, they're not going to meet
those standards. And it's so much of that versus actually
teaching students and trying to get an understanding of what
(21:49):
they know and what they think about things, getting them
to think critically, versus telling them you need to meet
this quota or you need to meet this guideline in
order to be consumed that are literate and I think
that's a huge problem as well in the black community
because the way that they use these guidelines and set
up these standards are not culturally competent enough. They have
(22:11):
a racism in itself as well, So I think that's
something that is also an issue. And when you think
about that early on, that that's happening as young as
fourth grade, and that continues in their trajectory at school.
By the time they get to college interested in reading,
that's not something that's a priority for them because they
(22:32):
have this process of because I didn't meet these standards,
I don't have this agency to try to have an
interest in reading because when I was in school, I
was told that I wasn't efficient enough anyway. So I
definitely think that's an issue that ends up carrying on
the way up to college.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I'm glad when Tessa brought that up, because we are
seeing a lot of states try to shift away and
exit exams to and from many of these grades are handled,
and just how heavily weighted they are on, you know,
the overall assessment of a student. So you know, we're
seeing SATs and other exams become opt out optional, and
(23:14):
we're seeing you know, states like New York, who has
what we call a regents exam. They recently proposed a
couple months ago to have the regents become optional. And
that's like a staple exam for students to pass and
to actually graduate. You can have be a straight A
student and if you don't pass that regens, you'll have
to take that class over, meaning you won't graduate. And
(23:35):
so this is a real conversation for a lot of
lawmakers and a lot of people who want to see
our students win. And part of that is understanding that
the way they are tested, the way they are weighted,
is it's not the same and it's not equitable, and
so they are going back to the drawing board and
looking at other alternatives. And so I'm glad when Tessa
(23:56):
brought that.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Up as well more for our conversation after the break.
One of the things that school districts, and I think
the entire educational system frankly, is still dealing with the
repercussions of the pandemic. And we knew there was a
(24:17):
shift to virtual school and online school. And as you've
already mentioned, Naja, you know, we know if people don't
have homes or access to technology, like that impact whether
they were able to show up for those kinds of things.
What kinds of things are we seeing in terms of
effects on students as it relates to mental health and
performance as a result of what we saw during the pandemic, Well.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
We know that our students, particularly our black students, specifically
our black girls, are in a mental health crisis. And
we saw what the pandemic did. They kept them home,
They kept them away from their friends, It kept them
away from their communities that they enjoy and that they
love and use as an outlet. And a lot of
(25:03):
them are still struggling. And a lot of students that
I've spoken with over the years have come out of
kind of that dark tunnel, that dark path, but a
lot of them are still trying to readjust and get
back to themselves before twenty twenty, twenty nineteen, and so
when you couple that with just being young and learning yourself,
and it was a lot on them, and it took
(25:24):
a toll on them. And we saw a lot of
schools try their best to create resources and create innovative
ways for students to have an outlet and reel them
back in, and some successful, some maybe not. Just yet,
but that's been a really big thing. And it's like,
we received one hundred and ninety one billion dollars in
(25:46):
COVID relief funds directly for schools, and eighty percent of
those funds were used to fill gaps like hiring teachers, tutors,
making sure students have access to updated technology, but only
about three three point three percent was directly used to
address the mental health of students and teachers. And that's
(26:07):
obviously a huge problem. And so although there have been
schools and places that have been more effective in helping
our students kind of bounce back, there obviously just wasn't
enough resources allocated for that.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah, and I was also going to mention the data.
I'm glad that AZA brought up the one hundred and
ninety one billion dollars because data wise, that's what it
shows is that some progress has been made, but there's
still a ways to go. And then unfortunately, we have
to understand the natural disasters that have taken place since
we've had hurricanes, the wildfires. Now there's like for black
(26:47):
students especially, there's been an additional pandemic for them. So
while they're recovering from the COVID nineteen, you have the
hurricanes that have taken place that have displaced a lot
of black families and students, and then now the wildfire.
So it's like, yes, some progress has been made, but
there's still so so much work that still needs to
be done.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, and you mentioned earlier, Quintessa, like so many schools
are just set up to be like are these metrics
being met? Right? Like talking about like teachers teaching towards
the tests, and like things have become so structured that
there isn't even a lot of space in the day
or in the curriculum to assess intends to students mental
health needs. So like, when would this even be happening?
(27:27):
Are there even the resources in terms of staff to
talk about mental health with students?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Right?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
There's been so much emphasis on meeting this goal and
meeting that goal, and it's it's been it's been really unfortunate.
But I definitely feel like that's another reason why so
many alternatives have been created, because it feels like with
schools right now, they're pushing us out of those spaces
(27:55):
and trying to justify why they no longer need to
prioritize diversity and culturally competent programs, and so I feel
like that's why other people are banning together to say, Okay,
where else can we go? It's like that rhetorical question
of where else can we go? And I see that
a lot of people have pivoted to social media, a
(28:15):
lot of people have pivot into grassroot organizations. AJA covered
a piece last year about book ban organizations that are
working to help with literacy and getting students exciting about
reading again and things like that. So I feel like
that's another reason why people pivoted. You know, It's like
(28:36):
we're made to feel like we're being pushed out of
these spaces. It's not that we don't know how to
teach this in the classroom or that we don't want to,
but we feel pushed out where else can we go?
And I think people are trying to find those additional
and creative ways to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
What would you say you're most excited about, are most
hopeful about? As it relates to some of these Miller
grassroots kinds of things popping up in terms of providing
additional educational spaces for students.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I think just hearing the people that we've spoken to
recently and how much they've navigated for the importance of
them and how they are willing to say, We're going
to do this no matter what executive order or what
they try to tear down. When I covered freedom schools
last year with Asalah, which is an organization created by
(29:27):
Cartegie Woodson, and they were doing the freedom schools on
the weekends, the person I spoke with she made it
very clear, We're going to teach Black history no matter what.
So I think this level of black educational resistance that
they have and are speaking of has been very inspiring
for us and our reporting.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I think for me that's tricky. I think what I'm
most excited about is them bringing people who may not
be under this umbrella of advocacy se and you know,
just have a soul of activism that you were just
born with, you know, just bringing those people under their umbrella.
(30:09):
I love to see when people engage in conversations when
it comes to our k through twelve students that may
not have had any interest before in it, that realize
like they are our future. And even if I don't
have a kid in public education, even if I don't
want kids, I still have a responsibility if I can
to be a part of these conversations. And I think
(30:29):
with these organizations that we're referencing, with the work that's
being done in and outside of public education, it is
making it is making it a real conversation for people.
And I'm most excited to see what where those people
come in and what additional help and resources they bring,
because we all have something to say, and we all
(30:50):
have something to bring to the table, and it may
not be you know, it may not always be on
the same page, it may not always be the same
thoughts as you know, somebody who shares your or whatever
the case may be. But it's a conversation. And I
think progress starts with conversations, and if they're not being had,
then progress will be slow. And so, you know, I
(31:11):
even did a piece around election season when well Canada's
was still in the campaign trail, why was education left
off the debate stage? And we knew that that would
be the only one live televised debate that they would have,
and education was not at the forefront of any of
the conversations. It was like a quick snippet. And so
(31:32):
when people who want to run for president for this country,
isn't even prioritizing speaking about all the strife that our
students are going through on these stages. It leaves room
for other people to join the conversation and speak for them.
We'll put it on the forefront. We'll make sure that
the masses know this and the masses know that. So,
you know, I'm most excited to see what new conversations
(31:55):
and new people join this fight. I am.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
So it has been such a treat to hear from
both of you. I would love for you to share
where can we stay connected with you with what you're
writing and new stories that you're doing. So your website
as well as any social media handles you'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Will We can be found at wordomblack dot com. That
is our official website, our Instagram same name. We're also
on threads, We're on YouTube, We're on TikTok. You literally
cannot miss us as long as you type in word
and black. Also on Facebook. Our digital editor Nadara Jameson.
She does an amazing job of making sure that our
(32:32):
audiences stay connected and stay involved, and so you definitely
can't miss us if you want to find us. And so, yeah,
we enjoyed this conversation and like I said earlier, I
think it's super super important for all of us to
join in these conversations. And you know, even if it's
not a priority to you, it's a priority to somebody else,
and one voice can make a difference.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Thank y'all so much for that, and thank y'all for
spending some time with me today. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Thank you, Thank you so much everything you guys are
doing in your platform, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm so glad Aja and Quintessa were able to join
me for this conversation. To learn more about their work
at Word in Black, be sure to visit the website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash tvgu and don't
forget to text this episodes to two of your girls
right now and tell them to check it out. If
you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our
therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.
(33:31):
This episode was produced by at Least Ellis and Tyrie Rush.
Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much
for joining me again this week. We'll look forward to
continuing this conversation with you next month. Take it care
Congratulations you've been accepted into Therapy for Black Girls University
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(00:55):
Starting a year with a number of executive orders targeting diversity, equity,
and inclusion, as well as anti affirmative action legislation impacting
schools around the country, there are so many questions around
how and where to get quality education for black students.
To help us get a better understanding of what solutions
are out there, Aja Said and Quintessa Williams of Word
(01:16):
in Black join us to talk about a number of
the issues they've reported on for the Word in Black's
Education Beach. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation.
Please share with us on social media using the hashtag
tvgu Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining
(01:38):
me today, Aja and Quintessa. I'm very excited to talk
about all things education with you. I would love for
us to start by hearing you share a little bit
more about your backgrounds and what you specifically do at
Word in Black. We'll start with you, Aja.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
My name is Aja said, I am the K through
twelve education reporter for Word in Black. Before I have
into what I do. Word in Black is a national
newsroom founded by ten legendary black publishers from across the nation,
and our reporting is focused on confronting racial inequalities and
amplifying solutions that Black America needs to know and here
(02:15):
to bring about equity and justice. And so that description
right there basically sums up what I do within the
K through twelve sector of it. We take a look
at what educators, teachers, other professionals are doing to help
improve learning and just equitable solutions for Black students all
across the country.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
What about you, Quinteta, I am the education data reporter
for Word in Black. I currently have been here since
last July, and my work involves pretty much the same
thing that Aja explained, but it also using data to
kind of explain the inequities. So it definitely delves a
(02:57):
little bit into more of the numerical disparities and what
those mean for black students across the nation.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And we know, you know, there's been so much talk
about like just the field of journalism and you know,
students being interested in going in journalism, but what's the
job market looking like? And so I'd love to kind
of start also by hearing your thoughts on you know,
like your journey in journalism and why journalism education is important,
and maybe some of your influences in the field.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I am a proud graduate of Morgan State University,
and I had the opportunity to have a really immersive
experience while I was there, and similar to other journalism
programs that some of my friends have attended at other HBCUs,
having the opportunity to learn from the blackest and the
brightest in the field and getting in front of the camera,
(03:50):
behind the camera, exposed to audio. I never knew how
to create a website and so just being able to
do that as a student journalist kind of solidify the
fact that, yeah, I want to do this for a living,
and this is something that I know people my age
may not think is a sustainable life because we hear,
like you said, about oh, there's not enough money, there's
(04:12):
not enough opportunity. You know, it's predominantly white, all the
things that will tell you not to do it. But
when you do get in the field and you are
experiencing what we do every day and making a difference
and having people like Therapy for Black Girls reach out
to us and want to have these conversations, it kind
of makes all the complaints and the smaller picture go
(04:34):
away when you know that what we do matters. And
I think that's the biggest thing when choosing a career,
choose something that matters to you. And I was able
to do that out the gate, and some of my
biggest inspirations, I have to say, would be one of
my advisors at that time, Milton Kent. He was a
longtime writer, a sports writer, but he was able to
(04:56):
just use that knowledge and kind of show us there
are so many different ways to use what you know
besides writing about sports, and so he's definitely one of
them absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And for me, I told Ozha this before, I wish
that I had had the opportunity to have went to
an HBCU. I went to a PWI here in Florida
where I live, and it really made me wish that
I had the opportunity to have went to an HBCU
because a lot of the work that I do now
dels so much into the black experience. And I think
(05:28):
with my writing career, when I begin to write about
the issues and the inequalities that we face, something just
kind of clicked in me, and I do wish that
I had gotten that HBCU experience. But working with Word
in Black has kind of been like my HBCU experience
because I get to work with ASJA and learn so
(05:50):
much more about the educational inequalities.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So the Supreme Court decision to repeal affirmative Action has
left many questioning how colleges and universities going to approach
diversity in admission specifically going forward. I wonder how you
anticipate this ruling in any kind of corresponding new executive orders.
How do you think that will impact Black students' access
to higher education.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So the unfortunate thing is that it's for the pwi's
and the what they consider the elite institutions. It's really
going to depend on for them if they are willing
to still champion diversity at the end of the day.
Is this something that still matters to you. Are you
(06:35):
still going to champion this when it's unpopular, when everybody
else is telling you to tear down these programs, and
are you still going to fight for it. So a
lot that side of it is definitely going to depend
on what decisions that they make, because some pwi's have
kept some of their DEI programs and some of their
(06:55):
enrollment is still consistent At Yale, Brown Universities drop significantly,
but some are still working to make sure that their
data and black student enrollment is still consistent. So for
that is definitely going to depend on at the end
of the day, are they still willing to champion it
(07:17):
Given that situation. The good news is that there are
so many other alternatives like freedom schools that are working
with students to try and give them a sense of
black more black representation. If this school is not offering
this class or this program, come here. You know. There
(07:38):
are freedom schools being held at churches at other locations
where people are trying to I think it was around
last year they did a report from Florida that said
that students were giving up their saturdays to go and
learn about black history because their schools where they are
are no longer teaching black history. And so I think
(07:59):
there are so many other alternatives like freedom schools. And
then you also have educators who are making a presence
on social media where a lot of us are spending
our time, and so they are trying to make this
content relevant and accessible, because that's another issue that black
students face as well, is lack of access to resources.
(08:19):
So you have those educators going on social media like
TikTok and Instagram to try to make it a resource
in itself, if that makes sense. So there's a good
and a bad to it in that regard.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I'll definitely second Quintessa on her second point about options
and just opening your mind and your palette to it.
At first, it was an option if you wanted to
do the PWY, if you wanted to do the HBCU life.
That was something that with affirmative action, we felt was
feasible for all of us. And now that it has
(08:54):
been stripped away, you are forced to kind of think
about those alternatives, and I think it's important for us
to put that on the forefront as well, that there
are other places that we can get our information. There
are other places and other outlets that people are teaching
and learning, and so familiarize yourself with that. There's a
ton of experts who are creating entities within themselves, creating
(09:15):
schools themselves because they see through their work, through their research,
that there is a need for it, and affirmative action
being stripped down to shows that. So I would definitely
seck at that point about exploring your options.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You brought up a great point, Aza. You know, last
year we saw HBCUs, like Howard and Spelman talk about
a record high applications, and so it does feel like
there is this trend of students pivoting more towards HBCUs.
I wonder, Quintessa, can you talk about the numbers there.
Have you seen anything interesting in the data that speaks
to this is becoming more of a thing.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Definitely, Howard and fam you saw record applications. I know
for Howard, I think it was like a two hundred
percent higher record of applications. Fam you as well, from
what I can remember, it's about ten HBCUs that have
seen record highs and enrollment. And so their concern right
now is making sure that all of those students feel
(10:12):
welcome and that all those students have a place to go.
So like, for example, in Atlanta, we have about eight
HBCUs in Atlanta. So with Spelman and more House getting
these record numbers, they're doing the hard work of trying
to figure out, not figure out, but let them know
that you have a place to go. Don't feel because
(10:32):
it might be not space here at Warhouse, that you
don't have a place at Clark Atlanta. So I feel
like they're doing the hard work to speak to these
record numbers.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, and you know, I think one of the things
that it feels like comes up every year. HBCUs tend
to be smaller, right, like they historically have been smaller,
so accommodations in terms of residence halls and like the
dining halls, like they just tend to be smaller and
can't accommodate a large number. And so I wonder if
you've seen anything in terms of legislation or interesting innovative
(11:04):
projects that maybe some campuses are doing to try to
keep up with the amount of students who may be
wanting to pursue HBCU educations in the near future.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, I know, for for institutes like Morgan, we see
President David Wilson. He's been honored a few times for
the work that he's done in expanding the campus and
creating just state of the art facilities that they had
not seen prior to him becoming president. And so within
(11:33):
I think he's been president for about twelve years now,
twelve to thirteen years now. Within those years, he was
able to build a whole new housing development for that
influx of students, so that the communities understand the need
for the funding, the state understands the need for the
funding to create places in beautiful spaces, not just any
random place for our students to be housed or to sleep.
(11:57):
You see that those projects are happening and they are successful,
and you know, it's a reflection of the quality of
our campuses and a reflection of what matters.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So I'd love to hear more about some of your
reporting that has focused in the past couple of years.
We've seen countless attacks on critical race theory, although that
is not taught in K through twelve, But we know
that has resulted in like banned books and like limiting
conversations around history and just lots of things that students
actually do need to know. And I'm wondering if you've
seen and how are you thinking about like executive orders
(12:30):
in this new administration, how that impacts the experience and
the quality of education for K through twelve students.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
While you're absolutely right, it's been a mess. I joined
Word in Black in twenty twenty two, where they also
saw a record amount of banned books and band titles
all across the country in libraries and student classrooms, and
so I kind of joined when things were really really heated.
But in terms of impact, it's pretty obvious when it
(13:04):
comes to taking away or not giving it at all,
the history and the knowledge that all students, not just
black students, deserve to know about the full extent of
American history, and when the efforts to take them out
of schools or keep them out of schools is as
intense as it is right now, we Word in Black
have focused on outlets and other resources that are trying
(13:28):
to fill in those gaps because students got to know
the information somewhere you know, these libraries have to have
these books stopped somewhere, and so I'm thinking about this
organization called barbershop Books. You go into a local barbershop
and you might have a shelf full of top band
titles and books for you know, you who come in
(13:50):
and get their haircut to get those books. And so,
you know, you have these really innovative ideas that are
popping up all across the country to kind of fill
in that gap because it is impacting our students. And
there are students who is interested in knowing these things
and they want the knowledge, and they want to seek
the knowledge beyond just you know, Google. And so for
(14:11):
a while there there was this push to make sure
that African American AP courses were in schools, and we
saw all of the teachers' unions come together for that.
We've seen a ton of local grassroot organizations push for
that because it's needed. And you see a lot of
community within within this whole era of CRT and banned books.
(14:34):
You see the communities and you see them banding together
and making sure that if they aren't being taught in school,
they're being taught at their local church about it. If
they don't have the books that they need inside the classroom,
they could go get it at their local barbershop. And
so you know, that has been the sole focus of
(14:54):
our coverage of this whole ordeal, because we want to
make sure that they understand once again that there are
other options, you know, especially when it comes to legislation
and pushing back on it. As just a regular average
person who just wants to go to school. That might
be a little difficult for a sixteen year old. But
going to the corner where you see a little free
(15:16):
library that provides free books all across the country. They
have like little pop ups. That's something that you can
do as a sixteen year old that you know might help.
You can go get that book and recycle it and
reuse it and give it to a friend, And there
are ways to get around it. But obviously we want
this coverage in school. We want this curriculum in our
(15:38):
schools for.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Students, absolutely. And I second that I was just point.
I feel like the beautiful thing that came out of
the banning of curriculum and books is that you saw
everyone else band together and kind of say, Okay, this
is necessary, let's try to fight for this to be
put in schools. But with them banning things, if we
(16:00):
end up at a wrong turn there, then let's create
these freedom schools, these like Aja mentioned, these little free libraries,
these programs outside of these schools. It was unfortunate, but
a beautiful thing came out of it, as far as
saying like, okay, they banned this, but then we banded together,
if that makes sense, And.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
If I can add one more thing I just thought about. Actually,
last Black History Month, I did a ton of coverage on,
you know, places in Georgia, in Florida that were literally
sending home permission slips to learn about black history, to
watch a video on Martin Luther King. The most you know,
the most basic lessons that they should know became optional
(16:43):
and parents were able to opt their students out of
it if they tried. And so you see a lot
of things like that happening. But I will say when
they do, a lot of people up north aren't understanding
that these are the realities. Because their curriculum isted, they're
a lot more protected than a lot of these other
conservative states. And so when things like this continue to happen,
(17:06):
it kind of puts just how heavy the k through
told world is on the forefront for everybody, because that
may not be the first conversation you have when you
wake up, like, oh, it's optional for kids to learn
about black history in Florida. But last year it was
a really big thing that made people realize like, oh,
this is really real, you know, and this is not
(17:27):
something that's just impacting one student or one district or no,
it's affecting whole states. It's affecting whole districts and in
parts of this country that you may not care to
know or even realize you should know until it's viral
on your ex or your Instagram timeline. And so I
would definitely say impact wise, we're seeing, We're seeing people
(17:51):
are learning, and they're hearing, and they want to be
more progressive and want to be a part of these
conversations that they may not have been before because it
didn't directly impact them.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
More from our conversation after the break, Yeah, I mean,
and there are lots of downsides to banning books, but
we know, you know, it sometimes takes lots of tries
to find things kids like to read, right, and so
you know, one thing that happens when books are banned
(18:23):
is that kids maybe are not as interested in reading altogether.
Last year, the National Assessment of Education Progress reported that
just seventeen percent of black fourth graders were literate. And
so I would love to hear you talk anything you
know about, like what some of the biggest factors impacting
literacy in the black community are and then what do
we see down the line as students are entering college
(18:46):
or into the workforce the impact that this difficulty with
literacy has.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I'll take that while one of the biggest things would
definitely be chronically absent students, which are students who are
absent more than ten times out of the school year.
And so when our students aren't showing up for school,
they're obviously not getting the learning that they need. They're
not getting the excitement and the energy and the entertainment
(19:11):
around learning that they might experience had they been in school.
And so that is a really big thing about getting
our students to school so that they can actually learn.
And so that's really big And another one I definitely
want to note, there's just a lot of external factors
in terms of their personal life. A lot of our
students are homeless, and homelessness is obviously a major issue.
(19:34):
Youth homelessness is a major issue that needs to be
addressed before we can even address why students aren't going
to school. Some of them have nowhere to sleep, some
of them haven't had a real meal in days, and
so there are a lot of external factors within a
student's personal life that schools and other people who can
assist them need to address before they even talk about
(19:57):
getting them to learn. And so when you to shift
the conversation away from hey, all of our black fourth
graders are literate versus hey, most of our fourth graders
didn't eat last night. You know, it's all about the
narrative of the conversation that they choose to have. And obviously,
different places, different districts have certain things that is specifically
(20:19):
related to them. For some districts it's transportation. You know,
a lot of our students can't even get to school.
They have to travel over an hour to get there.
And so these are all factors. Everything is a factor,
to say the least, and through our reporting at Word
in Black, you kind of see that when even the
smallest things might have huge implications on our students and
(20:41):
how they learn what they want to learn about, what
they're interested in learning about and so yeah, that definitely
will have an impact, and it can have an impact
on the young adults entering high school, middle school, all
the way up until college if our educators and our
system in general don't do enough to it sooner rather
(21:01):
than later.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Yes, And I also wanted to add, I think there's
also an over emphasis on standardized testing. I think that
that is something that has really impacted black students, given
that the standards that they set for these standardized testing
requirements are not culturally competent. So you set these standards
and then expect black students to meet them, or you say,
(21:26):
you know, you have to meet this to be considered
literally efficient if that makes sense, efficient enough. But if
what you're using to set these standards are not culturally
competent enough for black students, they're not going to meet
those standards. And it's so much of that versus actually
teaching students and trying to get an understanding of what
(21:49):
they know and what they think about things, getting them
to think critically, versus telling them you need to meet
this quota or you need to meet this guideline in
order to be consumed that are literate and I think
that's a huge problem as well in the black community
because the way that they use these guidelines and set
up these standards are not culturally competent enough. They have
(22:11):
a racism in itself as well, So I think that's
something that is also an issue. And when you think
about that early on, that that's happening as young as
fourth grade, and that continues in their trajectory at school.
By the time they get to college interested in reading,
that's not something that's a priority for them because they
(22:32):
have this process of because I didn't meet these standards,
I don't have this agency to try to have an
interest in reading because when I was in school, I
was told that I wasn't efficient enough anyway. So I
definitely think that's an issue that ends up carrying on
the way up to college.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I'm glad when Tessa brought that up, because we are
seeing a lot of states try to shift away and
exit exams to and from many of these grades are handled,
and just how heavily weighted they are on, you know,
the overall assessment of a student. So you know, we're
seeing SATs and other exams become opt out optional, and
(23:14):
we're seeing you know, states like New York, who has
what we call a regents exam. They recently proposed a
couple months ago to have the regents become optional. And
that's like a staple exam for students to pass and
to actually graduate. You can have be a straight A
student and if you don't pass that regens, you'll have
to take that class over, meaning you won't graduate. And
(23:35):
so this is a real conversation for a lot of
lawmakers and a lot of people who want to see
our students win. And part of that is understanding that
the way they are tested, the way they are weighted,
is it's not the same and it's not equitable, and
so they are going back to the drawing board and
looking at other alternatives. And so I'm glad when Tessa
(23:56):
brought that.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Up as well more for our conversation after the break.
One of the things that school districts, and I think
the entire educational system frankly, is still dealing with the
repercussions of the pandemic. And we knew there was a
(24:17):
shift to virtual school and online school. And as you've
already mentioned, Naja, you know, we know if people don't
have homes or access to technology, like that impact whether
they were able to show up for those kinds of things.
What kinds of things are we seeing in terms of
effects on students as it relates to mental health and
performance as a result of what we saw during the pandemic, Well.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
We know that our students, particularly our black students, specifically
our black girls, are in a mental health crisis. And
we saw what the pandemic did. They kept them home,
They kept them away from their friends, It kept them
away from their communities that they enjoy and that they
love and use as an outlet. And a lot of
(25:03):
them are still struggling. And a lot of students that
I've spoken with over the years have come out of
kind of that dark tunnel, that dark path, but a
lot of them are still trying to readjust and get
back to themselves before twenty twenty, twenty nineteen, and so
when you couple that with just being young and learning yourself,
and it was a lot on them, and it took
(25:24):
a toll on them. And we saw a lot of
schools try their best to create resources and create innovative
ways for students to have an outlet and reel them
back in, and some successful, some maybe not. Just yet,
but that's been a really big thing. And it's like,
we received one hundred and ninety one billion dollars in
(25:46):
COVID relief funds directly for schools, and eighty percent of
those funds were used to fill gaps like hiring teachers, tutors,
making sure students have access to updated technology, but only
about three three point three percent was directly used to
address the mental health of students and teachers. And that's
(26:07):
obviously a huge problem. And so although there have been
schools and places that have been more effective in helping
our students kind of bounce back, there obviously just wasn't
enough resources allocated for that.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah, and I was also going to mention the data.
I'm glad that AZA brought up the one hundred and
ninety one billion dollars because data wise, that's what it
shows is that some progress has been made, but there's
still a ways to go. And then unfortunately, we have
to understand the natural disasters that have taken place since
we've had hurricanes, the wildfires. Now there's like for black
(26:47):
students especially, there's been an additional pandemic for them. So
while they're recovering from the COVID nineteen, you have the
hurricanes that have taken place that have displaced a lot
of black families and students, and then now the wildfire.
So it's like, yes, some progress has been made, but
there's still so so much work that still needs to
be done.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, and you mentioned earlier, Quintessa, like so many schools
are just set up to be like are these metrics
being met? Right? Like talking about like teachers teaching towards
the tests, and like things have become so structured that
there isn't even a lot of space in the day
or in the curriculum to assess intends to students mental
health needs. So like, when would this even be happening?
(27:27):
Are there even the resources in terms of staff to
talk about mental health with students?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Right?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
There's been so much emphasis on meeting this goal and
meeting that goal, and it's it's been it's been really unfortunate.
But I definitely feel like that's another reason why so
many alternatives have been created, because it feels like with
schools right now, they're pushing us out of those spaces
(27:55):
and trying to justify why they no longer need to
prioritize diversity and culturally competent programs, and so I feel
like that's why other people are banning together to say, Okay,
where else can we go? It's like that rhetorical question
of where else can we go? And I see that
a lot of people have pivoted to social media, a
(28:15):
lot of people have pivot into grassroot organizations. AJA covered
a piece last year about book ban organizations that are
working to help with literacy and getting students exciting about
reading again and things like that. So I feel like
that's another reason why people pivoted. You know, It's like
(28:36):
we're made to feel like we're being pushed out of
these spaces. It's not that we don't know how to
teach this in the classroom or that we don't want to,
but we feel pushed out where else can we go?
And I think people are trying to find those additional
and creative ways to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
What would you say you're most excited about, are most
hopeful about? As it relates to some of these Miller
grassroots kinds of things popping up in terms of providing
additional educational spaces for students.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I think just hearing the people that we've spoken to
recently and how much they've navigated for the importance of
them and how they are willing to say, We're going
to do this no matter what executive order or what
they try to tear down. When I covered freedom schools
last year with Asalah, which is an organization created by
(29:27):
Cartegie Woodson, and they were doing the freedom schools on
the weekends, the person I spoke with she made it
very clear, We're going to teach Black history no matter what.
So I think this level of black educational resistance that
they have and are speaking of has been very inspiring
for us and our reporting.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I think for me that's tricky. I think what I'm
most excited about is them bringing people who may not
be under this umbrella of advocacy se and you know,
just have a soul of activism that you were just
born with, you know, just bringing those people under their umbrella.
(30:09):
I love to see when people engage in conversations when
it comes to our k through twelve students that may
not have had any interest before in it, that realize
like they are our future. And even if I don't
have a kid in public education, even if I don't
want kids, I still have a responsibility if I can
to be a part of these conversations. And I think
(30:29):
with these organizations that we're referencing, with the work that's
being done in and outside of public education, it is
making it is making it a real conversation for people.
And I'm most excited to see what where those people
come in and what additional help and resources they bring,
because we all have something to say, and we all
(30:50):
have something to bring to the table, and it may
not be you know, it may not always be on
the same page, it may not always be the same
thoughts as you know, somebody who shares your or whatever
the case may be. But it's a conversation. And I
think progress starts with conversations, and if they're not being had,
then progress will be slow. And so, you know, I
(31:11):
even did a piece around election season when well Canada's
was still in the campaign trail, why was education left
off the debate stage? And we knew that that would
be the only one live televised debate that they would have,
and education was not at the forefront of any of
the conversations. It was like a quick snippet. And so
(31:32):
when people who want to run for president for this country,
isn't even prioritizing speaking about all the strife that our
students are going through on these stages. It leaves room
for other people to join the conversation and speak for them.
We'll put it on the forefront. We'll make sure that
the masses know this and the masses know that. So,
you know, I'm most excited to see what new conversations
(31:55):
and new people join this fight. I am.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
So it has been such a treat to hear from
both of you. I would love for you to share
where can we stay connected with you with what you're
writing and new stories that you're doing. So your website
as well as any social media handles you'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Will We can be found at wordomblack dot com. That
is our official website, our Instagram same name. We're also
on threads, We're on YouTube, We're on TikTok. You literally
cannot miss us as long as you type in word
and black. Also on Facebook. Our digital editor Nadara Jameson.
She does an amazing job of making sure that our
(32:32):
audiences stay connected and stay involved, and so you definitely
can't miss us if you want to find us. And so, yeah,
we enjoyed this conversation and like I said earlier, I
think it's super super important for all of us to
join in these conversations. And you know, even if it's
not a priority to you, it's a priority to somebody else,
and one voice can make a difference.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Thank y'all so much for that, and thank y'all for
spending some time with me today. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Thank you, Thank you so much everything you guys are
doing in your platform, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm so glad Aja and Quintessa were able to join
me for this conversation. To learn more about their work
at Word in Black, be sure to visit the website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash tvgu and don't
forget to text this episodes to two of your girls
right now and tell them to check it out. If
you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our
therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.
(33:31):
This episode was produced by at Least Ellis and Tyrie Rush.
Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much
for joining me again this week. We'll look forward to
continuing this conversation with you next month. Take it care
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