“I MIGHT DOWNSIZE TO A VAN”

A caller talks fatherhood, considers moving into a van, and tries to figure out what to do with their life. 

Afterwards a caller sends videos of himself farting, a caller learns more about humanity thru his photography business, and a final caller is very happy they got fired.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Hey, how's it going? Hey?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
What's up? Man? What's your name?

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Oh? Gary?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary? I think, Uh, I think I'm
gonna just call you.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
I think I feel like I should just call everyone
caller because I forget everyone's names and it's supposed to
be anonymous anyway, you know, some I'll just call you
a caller from now on, maybe unless I changed my
mind at some point. Whenever I feel like it, call her.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
What's up? What'd you want to talk about today?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Oh? Nothing's just been trying to call you for fucking
years now.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh cool? Cool? Okay? How long how long have you
been doing? Thank you man? I appreciate that. How long
have you been listening to the show for?

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (00:44):
Fuck?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
How long have you been around? Since you've been on
a public U? Public Reddit or whatever it was?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Five years? Crazy shit, the years start coming. D you
have a whole ass kid?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah? Since U I started listening to you.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, how's that going?

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
It's going. Uh, it's tough. It's fun having the kid.
It's just everything comes with it, like, he's great.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
What inspired you to want to have a kid?

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Uh, you know, not fear pulling out?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I guess Oh it was an accident.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
How'd you feel when you found out that, uh uh,
you were gonna have a kid? Was it like, were
you considering like, oh shit, let's maybe not do this,
or was it like, all right, well, let's just do it.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
No, I was scared of shit, but it wasn't. I
was prepared to do whatever she decided.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, yeah, do you? I mean I guess looking now,
how how old is your kid now?

Speaker 1 (01:54):
He's about two and six months or so.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Okay, So comparing how you feel now to how you
felt when you were scared of shit? How do you
compare those two feelings? So it was the fear warranted
or are you like, all right, I'm over that fear.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
It was definitely warranted. Like you know, your life changes.
You fucking can't do a lot of things that you
used to be able to do. But I guess I'm
resigned at this point, but also happy because I love them.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
What sorts of things could you not? Can you not
do anymore that you that you thought you wanted to
do or that you do want to do?

Speaker 1 (02:38):
I guess just do whatever I wanted pretty much like
I'm not you know, I don't have to carry a
baby with me.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Well, I guess if if we're gonna get specific, I mean,
is there anything specifically that you wanted to do that
you can't do?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Now?

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Play video games whenever I want? Yes, true, he requires
a lot of attention.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah that's true. Well you can you Are you able
to play video games while he's in the room?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Uh? Yeah, except for he likes He always wants my attention,
you know, and I have feel guilty if I don't
give it to him.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, that's good, that's good.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
I guess when you're how old two and a half?
How old do kids start playing video games at? I'm
trying to remember when I got my Game Boy Advance?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Are you in? Are you in Nintendo?

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh? Yeah, I would say four or five?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Four or five?

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Okay, all right, So I guess in a couple of years,
you guys can start playing games together.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Super Smash Brothers, Mario.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Kart Yoh yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. I remember when I was.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Got Let's see, the GameCube came out in two thousand
and one, so I was like three or four or five,
and I remember the GameCube came out and I was
a little too young to be able to like understand
the controls of Super Mario Sunshine. So I just sat
and I watched my dad play and that was really nice.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Oh that's nice. Yeah, I want to be there playing
with him because my dad left when I was two,
so I didn't get to really experience that. Well it
must yeah it was. It was it nice for you.
It was a real good bonding moment.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
It was, man, it was.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
That's something I've been thinking a lot lately about kids
and whatnot. I mean, I still I feel like I
got a few solid amount more years before I gotta
figure that shit out.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
But like, m yeah, people have kids when they're like
forty five. I mean you got time.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, well how old are you?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Thirty two?

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Cool man? Cool? Yeah? So do you did you ever
rekindle with your dad?

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Uh? He lives way far away, kind of just avoid him. Yeah,
be honest, that might be more on me than him.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Do you feel like, but do you feel like what
happened with your dad is kind of like informs your
relationship with your own kid?

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah? Because I didn't get to see my kid for
two weeks or I guess a week and a half
this week and last week, so I'm I'm I felt
like I missed a lot, you know, mmm, and that
kind of that kind of weighs on me.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
What why did you miss the week?

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Just you know, personal shit and work and the baby mama.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Are you and the baby mama cool?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well? I thought we were, but yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Goes okay, So do you are you guys don't live together?

Speaker 1 (05:56):
No, No, we haven't lived together for about months, But
it's all right. I just uh, I just fear he's
not gonna have I'm not gonna be able to spend
enough time with him. M What have you been?

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Uh? What have you been up to in those seven months?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
I'm working and figuring out what I'm gonna do because
it's uh, we were together for like eight years and
now I have this like kind of freedom and uh,
I don't know what the fuck to do with myself.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Ooh interesting, tell me? Can I do you want to
talk about that?

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, we can talk about it. What I got? Uh
I got it means you got what I got? Plans?

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, hit me with the plans.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
I'm thinking about, uh, not selling my house but renting
it out, maybe living in a van and then just
on the weekends when I have the kid, staying with
the mother. You know, and just kind of living my life.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Would you drive the van around or would you do
or like, would you go on like driving across the
country or just live out of the van with a
van parked, live out of the.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Van and take like a lower paying job, less stressful,
more time with the kid.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's cool. What
do you do now?

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Electrical work?

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Is that a lot of stress?

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah, it can be, it has, it stays and the
traveling sucks, but not too bad.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
So you're gonna downsize to a van, get a lower
paying job that's less stressful, and then just chill and
spend more time with your kid.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, and just family in general. I guess I.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Like that idea. I like that idea. I think that's cool.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
I like it too. But pulling the triggers hard why.
It's just I don't know. I guess just because for
so long I just did whatever I needed too or
whatever everybody else wanted to do. And now I got freedom,
you know, except for the kid. But he's not locking
me down on anything, you know, I want to do

(08:20):
stuff with him.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Is this something that you've been wanting to do for
a while? Moving to a Van.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, I think so, but I knew I could never
do it because I had, you know, the girl and
the kid, and I was like, well that dreams a crapshoot.
So I'll just you know, live my life, go to
work and be happy and die. But now I got freedom.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Are you excited about having freedom?

Speaker 1 (08:56):
I don't know. I'm going to talk about therapist here.
Shortly figure that out. I guess.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Have you talked to your therapist about this before?

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Kind of? But there's there's always new developments in my
life that I gotta talk to her. M I don't
know if she helps her not be honest.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Why not?

Speaker 6 (09:20):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I guess because you don't really see the benefits of it.
But it's just nice to talk to somebody. Maybe I can.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I ask you, like.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
In the in looking for help or looking for benefits,
if you were to picture or imagine what that help
or benefit might look like, what would what would that be?

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah? I think that's my problem because that's what she
keeps asking me. It's like, what do you want? And
I'm like, I have no fucking clue.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Well, you want to live an event?

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well, I mean from talking to you for two seconds,
you sound like you want to spend more time with
your family and you want to be less stressed.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah I've been. I've been a lot less
stressed and pretty happy. Uh from something you said, so you, uh,
you got somebody into Pokemon a long time ago and
they went broke, right, So I did the same thing

(10:32):
with Magic the Gathering. So I went pretty broke, but
I was already broke, so but it more broke. And
so that was that was because of the Pokemon thing.
You need to find something you like to do, go
do it. So I took that advice. And then after

(10:53):
I got over being broke, you had another call where
you were like, oh, you can't kill yourself, you got
to do this. Yeah. So I've been playing every Monday,
so I can't kill myself because I gotta go play
Magic on Monday.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Great, I'm extreme. I'm extremely happy to hear that you
you're not gonna kill yourself because you have Magic tournaments
on Mondays. That's uh, that's good. Do you still play
in them?

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Uh? Yeah. They're more casual though, because it's the casual
format where you can just go to a bar. Yeah
kind of nice.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah you need some ship? Well yeah, bro you need
to have something. I think.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
I think one of the things I've learned is you
need to have a place where you can go where
it's that. It's that, it's cheers, dude, it's where everybody
knows your name.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, you gotta have you gotta have that place.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Where you go and you know everyone, and and you
leave and you say goodbye to a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
You gotta have that place.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
And if you don't have that place, you gotta it
takes it takes a little bit of time and energy
to develop it, but you gotta have it.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
It's it's like a key to.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Oh yeah, anxiety inducing. But I probably only did it
because of your podcast.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Oh I'm happy to hear that. I'm happy to hear that.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
So do you have a you have a nice community
of folks in the Magic Universe that you hang out with.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Oh yeah, it's much better than like the game store
because it's at a bar, so it's kind of like
more socially adjusted people.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, sure, sure, Ah, that's wonderful. I'm super happy to
hear that the podcast, Uh inspired you to do that? Yeah,
I mean, especially as like we're getting I think one thing,
one reason I'm optimistic about society is. I do think
that as we get I think there is a pendulum
shift that like, as we get more and more sucked

(12:51):
into our digital universe, there's going to be more and
more demand for like in person shit people to be
more and more like, oh wait, I actually want to
be out and about and in the universe and not
on fucking uh discord and uh right it all the time.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah. The more I socialize, the more I figure out
I'm very terminally online because I'll say some shit that's
like a quote from a meme or something, and I
just get a blank fucking stare and I'm like, fuck,
I'm I'm an idiot.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
You're not an idiot. You're not.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
I don't think you're an idiot, but I think that, Yeah,
you can become more terminally online. But it's great because
there are places where weird nerdy people hang out and socialize,
you know, and you don't have to feel like a
crazy person.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah. The community at this bar is great. I love it.
That's uh much better than any game store I've been to.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Wow, why are the game stores weird?

Speaker 1 (13:58):
They're a lot more competitive they Uh, it's not like, oh,
I'm glad you're here, or like I really like playing
with you. It's more like when win this game and
go on to the next one and shake hands but
not talk to the person at all.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah playing.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
I play in melee tournaments and sometimes actually shout out.
There's this bar in uh Manhattan called os They run
Melee Wednesday, and I go. I go like once a
month something like that, and uh, eighty percent of the
time when I like have a match with someone, they're

(14:40):
we're just sitting down and chatting and it's cool and whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
But then like twenty percent of the twenty percent of the.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Time I could tell they were like fucking into it
and they were like and like like I'll like I'll win,
and they like are all fucking sad, and I'm like,
oh man, come on, we're just having fun playing the game.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah. I had one guy get up on me and
get mad, and I'm like, shit that that it just
feels bad. Yeah, And that's that's how I feel every
time at the game store. But at the bar, it's
just like it's always just fun. Nobody cares if they lose.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, they also have smash tournaments at that bar too,
that's cool.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, I feel like I feel that way with uh,
I feel that way with I mean those have been
my like two big hobbies for my life is uh
a stand up and the smash Bros. And I feel
like I feel like I stand up to Like a
lot of people in stand up are like also very competitive,
but it's like, bro, I don't know a lot of
this ship. It's like at the end of the day,
we're all just at the end of the day, we're

(15:39):
all just trying to get out of the house, you know.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, they seem more like uh critical then, like because
they're trying to help you out, but they just come
off as an asshole. Maybe that's for stand up.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Or well, nah mean mainly just just may may I
think mainly just people being like this person's sir, this
is lame or whatever.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Fuck. It's like, we're just trying to get out of
the house.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Man.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
But anyway, what's your name? Gary?

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Gary? Yeah, Gary, Gary Gary, Gary?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
All right, So you're fucking you got your magic tournament
that you're not killing yourself for.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
That's good.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
You're gonna try to take a lower paying job to
have less stress, live out of a van.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, be with Kid Moore. Yeah, stop drinking too, Stop
drinking it just yeah, it just sucks because all the
stuff at the bars, so you know, alcohol is always there.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah. What inspired you to quit drinking?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
I think a long time ago. I like when I
was twenty seven, I was fucking drinking and playing Rocket
League every night and I was getting plastered. And uh,
one one birthday, I drink almost a whole fifth by
myself playing Rocket League and I felt like it almost
killed me mm hmm, and I was like, I need
to stop doing this. I'm too old.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
M was that your rock bottom?

Speaker 6 (17:08):
No?

Speaker 1 (17:09):
No, my rock bottom was right out of high school.
Uh shit, eating mick chickens and drinking four locos.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
That living in the car.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah that sounds fun for a day.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah yeah, yeah it Uh it wasn't great.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
How long you've been off alcohol for?

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh I'm not off. I just uh, I just cut
back a lot, and I'm trying to not drink, but
going to the bar all the time, especially with the
family drinking too.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
The family.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, like my whole anytime we go for a birthday
or anything like that, it's oh what bar are we
going to?

Speaker 6 (17:55):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Well, oh do you have a lot of family where
you live.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Now are you close with them?

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, I'm pretty close. Yeah, definitely with the mother.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Do you have a
lot of friends.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
Now?

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Most of them are online? And then you know, I
got the people who all know my name and I
know their name, and we may sometimes go to people's
houses and play magic. But I don't know if they're
friends yet. I don't. I wouldn't say they would call
me a friend.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
So I'm curious about this.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Uh, and yeah, you know you should talk to a
real therapist about this, But I'm just I'm curious. As
I'm talking to you, is like, you're you got all
you got your You've got all this well rounded stuff.
You know, you got a plan, You're cutting down on drinking,
You're you know, you're on an upward trajectory, making friends,

(18:56):
hang out with family.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
What when you say you're.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
What was the thing you were gonna talk to your
therapist about, like trying to find like trying to figure
out what the fuck to do?

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well? She always asked me, what I what do I
want out of those therapy sessions? And I don't know
what the fuck to tell her.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
But you said that you you said before that you
were like, I'm gonna I gotta talk to my therapists
about like what the fuck am I gonna do?

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Uh Yeah, but then that's not her job to tell
me what I'm gonna do. So it's like, I think
I'm expecting something from a therapist that I'm never gonna get.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah, that's possible, that's possible. But I mean in terms
of figuring out what you're gonna do, because you're already
doing a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah. Yeah. The last two weeks when I think you
can see my kid though, I was a little depressed
and I didn't really do anything though, and I was
it felt bad. So I was kind of forced myself
to go to magic and I feel a lot better. Now.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Where is your Uh do you have a nice enough
relationship with the baby mama that you guys can like,
you know, fucking co parent the kid.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I thought we did.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
It sucks, Yeah it does, but shit happens.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, life is crazy.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
That says crazy. Yeah, Gary, it's.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Been nice talking to you. Is there is there.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
I know you said you've been trying to call in
for a while. Uh, is there any thing. I guess
while we're still on the phone, is there anything else
that you wanted.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
To say or talk about before we go?

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I don't mean down to Ashville alle Yeah, I've.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Heard things about Ashville. I've heard cool things about Ashville.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, don't go downtown, go on Heywood Road.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
I you know I'm not touring this year. I might
next year. I got to think of something to tour.
I got to come up with some shit. I'm laser
focused on trying to make YouTube videos this year and
spend less time touring so I can work on my
videos and you know, do the podcast and shit. But
if I tour again in twenty twenty six, I'll put Nashville.
I'll put Asheville on there. I've heard a lot of

(21:28):
good things about Ashville.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, we're small, but we got we got people who
would want to see you. We've got tons of breweries
and bars and everything.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
That sounds like a fun ass time. Well, is there
anything else you want to say at all before? I
guess that was the thing, But anything else before we
actually go this.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Now there's nothing knocking around in my head.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Cool, good luck, Gary, take care man?

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, YouTube get I like that.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Guy that goes cool. Yeah, I'm happy.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
I'm stoked that, uh the podcast inspired him to go
out and do shit. I'm a big fan of going
out and do shit, doing shit. I'm a big fan
of avoiding thoughts. I think, I don't know everyone's so
everyone's wired very differently. But I find that like the
more engaged I am, I find like I'm like a shark.
Like if I'm not engaged in life, if I'm not

(22:24):
like out and about and doing something or talking to
something someone or you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Like That's why That's why I love cities so much.
I love fucking you know, being out and engaged in life.
I love being like you know, I find if I'm
not doing that, I'm just like I'm spiraling fucking hard, dude,
spiraling hard. Yes, I loved you know, touring and uh,
I mean that.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
That got you know, it can sometimes get a little overwhelming,
but overall, I feel much more relaxed and calm when
I'm like present in in life. You know, Like I'll
spend a whole morning inside and I'm like fucking depressed,
and then I go outside and I see like people
walking around and the sun is.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Out and I'm like, oh, well, the you know, you
gotta yetta do shit? Yeah, do shit. And it doesn't
always it doesn't always have to cost a lot of
money to do shit. Like every every city has free
ship that you can go and do.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
You can even show you can even like fucking go
out to some bar that has some fucking trivia or
magic or whatever and buy like a diet coke.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
You know, doesn't have to be crazy expensive.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
Hello is this the Therapy?

Speaker 4 (23:34):
Agree?

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yes? Who is this?

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Hello?

Speaker 5 (23:37):
My name is Alex.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
What's up Alex? How you doing? Man?

Speaker 5 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not too bad. I just before we
start this conversation, I just I wanted to say that
I have I have called you before, and I've been
listened to you a little bit this evening, and you
and you've expressed the distaste for people who call you
multiple times. So I don't know, I don't know whether
you would want to talk to me again or if
you want to have a different conversation than perhaps we

(24:02):
had last time.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Yeah, you know, it is true that I prefer to
talk to new people because you know, I know that
there's a lot of people who want to talk on
the show that haven't gotten the chance to talk before.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
What I mean, when how recently did we talk?

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well?

Speaker 5 (24:19):
So I actually the first time that I spoke to you,
I met you in person at show in London. I
came and the last time I called you, I told
you about the time that I met you at the
show and you said that perhaps that you had been
moved to tears or something, and.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, you were the guy, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were
the guy who you were the guy who?

Speaker 4 (24:37):
Who?

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Who?

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Who read the letter on stage?

Speaker 5 (24:41):
No no, no, no no no no that wasn't me, that
was someone else. But I came up to you after
a show and I said to you that the show
had helped me for the better and it helped my life.
And I spoke to you about, you know, the something
that you had talked about called the tax of life,
which like you know, how you accepting some move on
in your life difficult and stuff like that. And I

(25:01):
came up to you after the show and told you
about that, and then I called you. Last time I
called you was about just before the Vice documentary came out.
It was literally working like the day before the Vice
documentary came out. And I spoke to you then and
I called you and we spoke for about forty five
minutes and then by the end and I think the
whole conversation was me trying to reassure you that that

(25:22):
you're doing a great job and the podcast is a
good thing. And I felt like in that conversation we
spoke for about forty five minutes about you, and I
was trying to I was trying to therapy you. And
so I thought this time, if I called up, I
could maybe share something about myself. And it was but
that's only if you want to.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
You know what, you know what, you know what, you
know what? Hold on you know what?

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Alex.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
First of all, I I kind of I actually think
I do remember this now, I think I do. Right, Okay,
So UK, okay, you you didn't come this past November.
You came to my show in the summer of twenty
twenty three.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
Yeah, that's that's right. Yeah, so it was in London
and Camden. I came to see you and yeah, and
the reason is, to be honest with you, is because
I lived in a city called Birmingham and you haven't
been to Birmingham yetually at all. But it's the best
scene in the UK. It's the second largest city needs
to come. You need to come to my city and
come and hang out here. That's why. But yeah, I

(26:15):
love the show and I'd love to go.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Thanks Met. Well, yeah, of course, Well first of all,
yes we can. We can have this conversation. Yeah, I remember,
I do, Actually, I do remember that fucking I do
remember that phone call. Yeah, I do remember that phone call.
How are you doing? Man?

Speaker 5 (26:33):
What I'm doing good? I'm doing good. And I think
a lot of my life is like extremely extremely stressful
right now, but I feel quite I feel quite happy.
I feel good in the field. And I think I
know just moments ago that you said that you don't
you don't want to talk about extrastential dreads and so't
we won't talk about that, and I'll talk about happy things.
And but yeah, I can tell you about my life

(26:55):
if you want to know about me. And I think
last time, when I spoke to you and you asked
me some questions, I think that I tried to not talk.
I try not to not tell you too many details
about my life to be identifiable. But I actually I
think I don't mind. I think if you want to
talk about anything, then I'm happy to talk about literally anything.
With you as well. So if you if you want
to ask me something, then I'm oiles whatever you want

(27:19):
to talk about.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Sure, mat well listen.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
It sounds like you called in to want to talk
about something specific, so I'm down to talk about it.

Speaker 5 (27:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah I did. I did want to talk
about something specific.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
So I have something that I talk about. It is
like a funny thing sometimes it's like a bit of
a nice breakup and I think my partner, my partner
hates it because she it's really embarrassing, Like it's a
really embarrassing thing to talk about and tell people. But
I just wanted to get your opinion on like this

(27:51):
thing that I tell people about, and I want to
know what you where you think about it as well,
if that's okay, sure, Oh my god, Okay, my girlfriend's
she's she's just looking at me with her head on
her hands, her hands on her head. I think she
doesn't want me to say this, but I'm going to
tell you about it, okay. So have you have you
ever been poor and like desperate for money, like you
need to do something like really like like drastic tourn

(28:14):
some money. Have you ever been in that situation?

Speaker 3 (28:17):
I'm really lucky that I grew up, you know, not
having to like ever be like particularly stressed about money.
So I'm I'm too privileged to answer that question.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
Okay, have you ever have you ever thought to yourself,
what's the weirdest or like, what's the worst thing that
you'd be willing to do for money? Have you ever
had that thought cross from money?

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, I've had that thought across lunch for sure.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
Okay, okay, well, so I also had this thought come
across my mind many times, and I think, you know,
would you ever like sometimes I find myself thinking, like,
would I lick a homeless man's foot for fifty pounds?
And I mean that's like seventy five dollars. I think
something like that, And I think that, you know, I

(29:02):
probably wouldn't lick at homeless nuns for like fifty or
seventy five dollars or whatever. But I think my threshold
is a lot lower than like a lot of people,
so like what I'm willing to do to embarrass myself
for money? Like if that makes sense. So anyway, it
was about twenty twenty, you know, in the middle of

(29:22):
lockdown and COVID. I was a student at university, and
I was, you know, very poor, Like my partner lost
her job because of COVID. She was working in retail,
and we didn't have a lot of money. We were
eating like on the like reduced labels in like the store.
Like everything we were reading was like about to expire

(29:43):
and stuff like that was very bleak, Like we were
totally running out of cash. And I used to live
actually I won't say that the city, but I used
to live in a different city's where I live now.
And someone in that city posted on the city subreddit
that they were looking for a skinny, young white man
to fart for them for money, And so I replied

(30:08):
to the reddit comments saying that I was game for
a bit of fighting because I thought, you know, I'm
willing to fart my way out of my situation, you know,
if I if I had to. And this isn't this
is not a bit I'm being I'm being so serious
that this that this happened. So I like I made
myself like an alternative Snapchat for this this purpose, like
I was gonna I was serious about The sender guy

(30:31):
added me, and and so I asked him like what
he wanted specifically because I wanted the money. I was
serious about it, you know, I wanted to see like
what he wanted to he told me. He told me
what he wanted and he basically he said that he
wanted me to fart and like comment on it as
well if I could. So what I did was I

(30:53):
filmed myself. I filmed myself fighting, and I did like,
oh that really stinks, like that's something really like I
don't know, like I commented until how bad it's now?
And then I actually did that twice. I filmed too,
and then I sent him the first one and I said,

(31:14):
this one's free, but if you were more, you're gonna
have to pay. I was serious. And then he stole
my part video. He never paid me, and then that
was it. And then I just have Now I just
have two videos with myself buying on my phone.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Wait, but did he but he didn't really steal it.
He didn't really steal it. You gave it, you said it,
you said the first one's free.

Speaker 5 (31:35):
Well, because because I didn't really know, I've never done
something like this before, so I was very naive. I
was like twenty years old. I didn't really know. I
didn't really know what I was doing, so I thought, well,
I just want to show him that I've got the
goods and then if this is going to be like
a reoccurring arrangement, then then that was going to be happening.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
When I was from a business perspective, I think you
did the right thing.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
Yeah, okay, well this is the thing as well. And
in the conversations up to this, he had spoken about
doing this in person because he obviously he was local
to the or so he claims, he was local to
the city that I was living in. So in my mind,
I was thinking, like, this could be the start of
a beautiful business relationship and I could be you know,
fighting on this man form for vast amounts of money

(32:15):
and and you know, maybe one one day I won't
have to far on anyone. You know, That's what I
was thinking. But it didn't work out that way, and
you know, but I'm glad that it didn't, because I
think life is probably better now than if I had
built like some kind of fighting empire. But that that
was something that I was very serious about, and I
went to the point of, like, you know, degrading myself
and fighting on my phone, not not to say that

(32:37):
you know, I think, I don't know. Maybe I don't
really think that's sex work. Maybe it's sex I don't
I don't want to call myself a sex work and
I don't think less of people for being sex worky.
But obviously you know, but you know, it's it was
kind of crazy that I went through all that effort
to fart on my phone, that the ethical dynama, just
to get nothing, nothing from it? Do you know what
I mean?

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Hmmm, is that something you would you would do today?
Like how much money would somebody have to offer you
for a fart video nowadays?

Speaker 5 (33:08):
Well, that's that's a good question. Well what have you
ever considered? Like, I don't want to sip the question.
I think i'd need to address this. I think if
someone wanted me to send a video of me fighting,
I think I would do it for fifty pounds. I
think that's pretty fair of like a fifteen second video
of me fighting and coming on this now, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
I think i'd I mean, I've sent videos like that
in my like Facebook group chat of friends. I think
I sent a video of me farting in my on
the toilet and my Facebook group chat like a week ago,
and I did that for free.

Speaker 5 (33:42):
Yeah, but see that's okay, that's pretty normal, And I
think that maybe can I ask you another question, because
I think that's normal than mix friends, right, And this
is another thing. You know, I kind of prefaced this
thing as well by saying that, like my girlfriend she
really disapproves of this, this whole story and this whole scenario.
But I she also doesn't like it when I send
my friends like pictures of my nutsacks and stuff like that.

(34:04):
Do you ever do that?

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Not as much anymore, but like I've seen I sent.
I what I'll do is like I have a it like, Okay,
so we have a main group chat there's like nine people,
and then we have a little breakout group chat where.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
There's a little bit less people.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
And in that one, I've sent a video of me
like screaming with my like ass out, but then I
usually I'll delete it afterwards, okay, all right? Yeah, Or
like we'll send like pictures of each other, or like
we'll like I'll send like a like my friend, we'll
send like pictures of like the our toilets and stuff

(34:43):
in the smaller group chat. That stuff it wouldn't play
in the larger group chat, but it sometimes plays in
the smaller one. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think when I
was younger, I would send more like, oh, like a
picture of my nuts, like in the Facebook group chat,
but not not so much anymore.

Speaker 5 (35:01):
No, perhaps that's the learning curve. We're wrong, but yeah,
definitely now that now that maybe now that I'm older? Then,
So do you think that I should leave the fighting
face behind and I should not tell people about it?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Is it?

Speaker 5 (35:14):
Is it wrong that I or it should I experience
shame for that? Or I don't know? Like what do you.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Should you experience shame for I don't. I don't think
you should experience shame for it, But I don't what
do you mean by leave it behind?

Speaker 5 (35:27):
Well, like with my girlfriend, she tells me about like
I shouldn't. I shouldn't tell people about that. It's like embarrassing,
But I don't know.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
I don't think you should. I mean, do you want it?
I don't think you should not tell? Well, do you
want to tell people about it?

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Does it? Is it funny to you? Is it?

Speaker 4 (35:42):
Like?

Speaker 5 (35:43):
Well, it's funny to me, but it's you know. I
obviously I can't see you right now, so I don't
know what your reaction was when I started talking about no.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
I think I also think it's funny. It's objectively funny.
It's very funny for sure.

Speaker 5 (35:57):
Oh, okay, And I think I mean, you probably spoke
to a lot of people. I mean, you've probably spoken
to people who, like you fought on cakes and stuff like, right,
And I think it's the fighting just and coming on.
It's not that's not even the worst thing that you've
heard so so. But but I don't know, maybe maybe
you're like, maybe you're biased towards the fighting.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I don't know, uh, maybe, yeah, maybe, but like I
don't know, it's what Yeah, I think you don't really
have anything to be ashamed of to like feel like
you have to hide.

Speaker 5 (36:29):
Okay, okay, okay. Is that Is there anything else that
you want to talk about or ask me about? And
I'll talk about anything that you love anything.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
You sound like you have a thing, and I'm gonna
and I don't. I have I have no further questions
for you. But if you have further things that you
want to talk about, you can you can.

Speaker 5 (36:53):
Well there was nothing as such, but you know, just
in general, I guess I would say that I feel
like I put for a living, I also interview people
in a similar way that well, not in a similar
way that you interview people, but I often because I'm
also I'm twenty six years old, so I think I'm
a year younger than you. So I think a lot
of the time when I'm listening to you and I'm

(37:15):
like listening and watching the show, and I watched the
live quite often as well, I kind of I can
I think that from the perspective of someone who interviews
people for a living, that I kind of I sometimes
feel like I can think your thoughts. When I'm watching
the stream and I'm like watching you interview people, I
feel like the next question is that you ask. I

(37:38):
also I anticipate that you're going to ask them, So
sometimes I feel like I'm in your head a little bit.
But so I don't know whether but I don't know,
I don't know whether you would find it interesting to
talk about what I do for a living, who I
interview and when I interview them, or whether that's a conversation.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
You want to go down or not.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
I mean, I was, I was a little I was
a little curious, Yeah, who do you what do you
do to interview people?

Speaker 5 (38:02):
Well, so so for the last like five years or so,
I've been like a fraud investigator. So I used to
be a benefits buster for the government in the UK.
So so after all of the flying went away and
I wasn't poor anymore, the first job that I got
after the flying, I became like a government it was

(38:24):
it's called the job center in the UK. Do you know,
like welfare and stuff that you have in the US. Sure,
it's like that, but like.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
In the UK.

Speaker 5 (38:32):
So what I had to do for a while is
like help people find work. And then I did that
for like about a year, and then I got transferred
to be like a fraud investigator, and then it was
like my job to like investigate people who were like
stealing a lot of government money. And then the whole
my job, a part of that whole investigation was to
interview them and grill them about it and get them

(38:52):
to confess to like stealing you know, thousands and thousands
of pounds of people's money. So that was my job
for a while. And then now I do like visa interviews,
so like it's my job to decide whether someone's like
coming to this to the UK. It's like a genuine
person or not, and they like, Mostly I do like
student visa interviews and stuff like that. So mostly it's

(39:14):
about like interviewing people to work out whether they're like
genuinely coming here to study or whether they have like
some ulterior motives to come to the country and stuff
like that. So yeah, that's what I do at the moment.
But I also I study like full time as well,
so I'm doing like a full time master's degree as
well at the moment. So that's my tea. I don't
know if you have any questions about my tea, Lile,

(39:35):
or the interviewing or anything like that, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, I'll ask one question, what's the number one what's
the number one flag for you that makes you deny
someone's visa?

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Oh? Oh, that's well.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
I think the thing is like if I think they're
lying to me, So if so, a lot of the
questions when I ask people, and I think this is
again is like why sometimes I relate to you when
I when I listen to the podcast and stuff, is
because I think when I'm questioning people in interviews when
it was fraud as well, like when I was like
not immigration stuff, when it was financial stuff, you want

(40:13):
to try and ask people about their motivations for like
whatever they do, and because you can't really if you
when you live your life, you live your life hopefully
with your doing the things that you are intentionally doing,
and so you have some kind of motivation for stealing
money or faking of EASA or whatever. So if I'm
asking you questions about like, for example, if you're coming

(40:34):
to my country to study a course, if I'm asking you,
like what you're most excited to specifically study on that
that course that you're applying for, then like, if you're
really genuinely excited about that, you would be able to
express that to some extent in like an interview and
you would have something that you've been wanting to learn
more about or something like that. So yeah, it's really

(40:55):
for me anyway. It's about like asking people about around
their like motivation. And if I think that I'm listening
to you and your motivation is really poor, and I
don't think that I believe that what you're saying makes
any sense, and I will then I will fail you
and I will not give you a visa to come
to the UK. But there are there are there are
specific things as well, some people. I sometimes I catch
people in lines very often, which is like then then

(41:18):
it's e gps to pet someone's for that. So well, yeah,
I don't know. Did I answer your question?

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I did answer my question.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Yeah, the answered my question about your ability to perceive
whether or not somebody is lying to you.

Speaker 5 (41:33):
Okay, And do you think that you have that ability
as well?

Speaker 2 (41:38):
No, I'm pretty good at uh.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
I mean, I don't know good at but I I
I tend to take folks at face value. I tend
to not think about or press upon whether or not
somebody is lying to me, because it usually is irrelevant
for me whether or not somebody is lying. And in
both this both both both on this show and in
my real life.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
And in your real life, so you never really questioned
whether someone's sending you the truth or not not.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Really. No, I don't have really much of an incentive
to in most cases.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Hmm.

Speaker 7 (42:17):
Okay, Okay, that's interesting unless if something, I mean unless,
unless if someone unless if somebody tells me something that's
like blatantly unbelievable, like if someone's like, oh I less,
if someone's like, you know, I have a like I
have a pet.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Unicorn or something like that that I'm inclined to believe
that they're lying. But if if they're like, oh, I'm
coming to the UK to visit my grandmother, it's like,
I'm not going to press whether or not they're lying
about that.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Oh okay, okay, I see. Well, I think that's quite good.
I think I tried to do the same in my
personal I think I take people that face value as well.
But yeah, I don't know. Do you think of that
that what I said was unfair about the visa thing.
I'm taking people at face.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I don't think it was.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
I don't think it was inherently unfair. I mean, I
don't know. I don't. I don't.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
I don't have a real I don't I this. The
interviews I do on this show are far less real
than the interviews that you do for visas. You know,
I don't really. I guess that you have more of
an incentive to try to determine whether or not somebody
is lying than I do, because if somebody is lying,

(43:24):
it's like I never know, And also it's relatively harmless,
you know.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I feel like it's different. I think it's different for
for each of us. Hey, Alex, Hey, what's up? Is
there anything else you want to say to the people
of the computer before we go?

Speaker 5 (43:45):
No, I love you, I love everyone. And this this
is going to be the last time. I think we
told live.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
I think I think, oh, no, that makes me kind
of sad. Now the way you said that, that makes
me sad.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
But you know, at the start of this conversation we
had the whole bit about whether we were whether it
was okay or not. But and I feel like, yeah,
I feel like I exhausted this, this conversation. I don't
know if I was to call you again, whether whether
we would be able to milk anything out I did.
I did my whole bartit.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, we Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Maybe if I if I come back to the if
I come back to the UK, maybe I'll see you.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
Okay. And when was the when I just as a
time frame, when when did the Vice doorcumentary come out?
Do you remember?

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:25):
It was January of twenty twenty four.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
So yeah, so that was like a year and a
half ago. Okay, Well, I might call you in a
year and a half time and I have something more
interesting to say.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I give you formal permission to call me again in
a year and a half.

Speaker 5 (44:40):
Okay, okay, that sounds good. All right, keep it real eye,
I'm going to go bye bye by Alex.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Take care. Hello.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
Hello, can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah? I can.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
What's your name?

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Man?

Speaker 4 (44:53):
My name is Will?

Speaker 2 (44:55):
What's up?

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Will?

Speaker 2 (44:55):
How you doing?

Speaker 4 (44:56):
You know? I'm hanging in there, dude. It's been a day.
It's been a life fun a year. But we're still standing.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
I like that. What would you want to talk about today? Man?

Speaker 4 (45:08):
Yeah? Man, I guess.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
So.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
I'm like in a phase where I'm building a photography
business right now, and I quit a full time job
that I was doing that was making like CBD and
HEMP coummies for like a year and a half, and
now I'm just trying to build this up. And I'm

(45:32):
in the space of like a little bit of a
purgatory with it, you know, trying to get business, trying
to balance out of social life, trying to do all
that stuff, and it gets overwhelming, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, Yeah, definitely tell me more if you if you want.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
To, Yeah, for sure. So I do like the photography
business I'm doing. I'm a wedding photographer. I was like
worked is one for since like twenty seventeen, so eight years.
Worked for a company for a while doing like a
lot of contract work, left working weddings for other people,

(46:13):
and started my own business doing it. So it's like
this weird balance of like actually trying to get people
to hire me because I've done like two hundred and
fifty plus weddings. But this whole thing is like starting
a business and having to be your own like advertising
and like client outreach and like all this other stuff.

(46:35):
It's not something they really tell you in college that
you're going to have to do, especially in this whole
land of social media and everything. So yeah, I don't know.
I'm a little bit nervous because I've been trying to
call you for so long that I've seen you live
like three times, I think, and I'm just actually extremely
surprised I actually got through here. This is like the
most wild thing for me.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
So where did you? Where did you see the live shows?

Speaker 4 (47:01):
The first one I saw was at Lincoln Lodge in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Cool.

Speaker 4 (47:05):
I think that was twenty twenty two. He actually interviewed
a friend of mine and he kept talking about excidential dread,
and you were like, I can't help you with that.
We should talk about something else, but all he could
talk about was existential dread and it was a very
funny moment. And then I saw you twice in Milwaukee.
Once at the back Room, which is like the smaller ones.

(47:27):
You had a hold David Kruber chant that went on,
and then won at Turner Hall last year. So all
been amazing, man, I appreciate you coming in.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Oh thanks man. Yeah, I've been thinking. I've been reminiscing
about those shows recently. I'd like to go out again.
I just don't.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
I don't know when I'm going to do it or what.
But tell me more about the photography land.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I've been doing photography since I
was fifteen, Like I bought my first camera from a
friend then and then it kind of just built up
from there, a bunch of senior photos and stuff when
I was in high school. I shot my first wedding
when I was seventeen actually, and then kind of went
off to school. Was like, Okay, I'm not going to
get a job in photography. It's like way too astronomical,

(48:13):
and so I switched my major to graphic design and
then I graduated with a major in graphic design, and
then I've gotten like fired from all of my graphic
design jobs, and then all of the photography jobs and
gigs like that are the ones that actually stuck around.
So it's just the way I learned to kind of
like see people, and like I think, working a lot

(48:35):
of events and like concerts or corporate events or weddings
or whatever it may be, like music festivals too, it
like teaches you like a sense of empathy, and like
I think it shows you like a better way of
seeing people outside of this like self consciousness that I

(48:56):
think a lot of us feel on like social media
and everything like that like very rewarding. They have someone
who's like, I'm awkward in photos and then you take
like a nice picture of it and they look at
it and they're like I like that, and you're like, yeah,
you look great. You know. I think we're all living
this wildly like extremely and too self conscious of a world,
you know, based around all of that. So trying to
find a way to like break through that noise to people, you.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Know, tell me more about how it's given you more empathy.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
I think, like I think I've always been like an
empathetic person. But I think just working in this space
and like being around so many different kinds of people,
whether you know, whatever the event may be, it just
allows at least me to like kind of get in
and like be a little bit more of a fly

(49:44):
on the wall. And I think it like, I don't know,
it's like a built in icebreaker, and so it cuts
through a lot of small talk, which is like kind
of what drew me to it, and I think people
end up being a little bit more authentic to themselves
and therefore, like I have a better view on other people,
like regardless of whatever their views are or anything like that. Yeah,

(50:11):
I don't know. It's a little bit more abstract in
some ways. I think it's just like a built thing
that it's continued to throw in throughout my years doing it.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Why would you ever see yourself doing anything else?

Speaker 4 (50:27):
I've thought about that a lot. Actually. I think there's
like another life where I would have gone into like
psychology or you know, something like that, because I feel
like I can read people well enough in some regards.
But there's also it's it's just not something that like
I want to go back to school for or anything.

(50:47):
You know. It's like I did my time with that.
But yeah, I mean outside of it, I think just
like anything people oriented would be something where like a
lot of that lies. I don't know, it's a hard question.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Yeah, I also I also enjoy things that are people
oriented for sure.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
Like you were talking about on the stream earlier, you
were like, I like being in a city because it
keeps my brain busy and like you know, yeah, me
kind of involved. And I feel the same way like
I live in Milwaukee, but like spending time in Chicago
or New York or like anywhere else where, there's just
like a ton of people out all the time. It's
just like a there's an energy to it, you know, It's.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
True, it's very energizing. It makes you feel young, that
makes you feel good. Yeah, I love. I love living
in a city. I don't think I could ever live
in like a suburb or live in a far off place.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
No, I agree.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
I think that's the other things like why with like
photography and like working events, why I feel like really
comfortable in that space because it is just like so
many people and so many different things happening, and like
I'm not somebody that's like standing out. I'm there to
just like witness it and be a part of it.
You know, there's not anything where like a focus is
on me or anything like that, but you can still

(52:05):
be a part of something with a bunch of other people.
So I think that's like, you know, at the core
of it.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Well, let's see what is there. Do you have a
dream photography gig of some kind?

Speaker 4 (52:28):
I don't know, man. I feel like, you know, running,
like doing events and stuff like that is definitely really
fun and like where a lot of the passion lies.
Like whether it's like it'd probably be like concerts and
music festivals overall, especially festivals, and like just capturing festival
life and just like people hanging out with each other
and enjoying themselves, you know, being absolute weirdos. Like you know,

(52:52):
you've got a chance to go and like interview people
at Bonnarou and that's those are some crazy conversations. And
I think it's like the same thing on a photography
side of that too, where it's just like people outside
of their everyday environment just running around and doing them
and like not trying to be necessarily you know, a
corporate entity or you know, anything that they're not, so

(53:16):
just capturing people in environments that like they feel comfortable in,
I think is what I would really like to do,
whether it's portraiture, events, base or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Just people, you know, so do what are you the
most stressed out about? Now?

Speaker 4 (53:33):
I mean, it's just like living in today's society. I
think there is you know, like a fair amount of
existential dread that comes along with being alive right now.
Not to get into any of that, you know, because
that's just life, but yeah, I think it's just like
money's always a worry and then just like just being like, oh,

(53:57):
like you know, did I make the right decision? Or
like am I doing the right thing? And then I
always think about it and I'm just like I think
I did, because like nothing else really makes me feel
the way that you know, photography does, right, Like I
can do a lot of other stuff, but if I'm
not doing it, Like during the pandemic, when all the
gigs kind of shut down and I wasn't like working

(54:18):
photo stuff as much, there was like such a heavy
part of me that was just gone, like you know, missing,
and so like being able to come out of that
and still work and like find those gigs again has
been obviously very fulfilling. But yeah, I think the worry
is just like you know, what if it fails, right,
like just to be like super vulnerable with it. I

(54:40):
think it's just you know, you'll never know that you
made the right decision until the right things start happening,
I think, and I think that sometimes it takes a
long time to get to that point of like figuring
out what the right things are.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
If that make sense, Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Yeah, I think that there is definitely a lot of.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Joy to be had.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
And simply trying, Oh yeah, you know, definitely a lot
of joy to be had and simply trying.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
What if it doesn't work out? I don't know. I
don't fucking know, man, what do you what have you
been feeling existential about?

Speaker 4 (55:35):
I think it's like I don't know if it's like
like I've always had that existential stuff of just like
trying to figure out, you know, like get a grasp
on the world. I think, you know, ever since you
get like cursed with self awareness at a young age,
and it's like, I don't know if it's necessarily as
much like existential as it is just like overwhelmed of

(55:57):
like trying to do so much, and then there's also
so much happening in the world, you know, without diving
into any political stuff or anything like that, it's just
like the world's pretty chaotic right now. And then if
you're trying to like get your shit together or you know,
start something new or like build on something, I feel

(56:17):
like those things that you're trying to do can like
be made to feel very small in the grand scheme
of things.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
You know.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Yeah, maybe that's where the existentialism like lies, where it's
like not necessarily where I feel like I'm not doing
something that matters to me, but yeah, just trying to
feel like, okay, like in the grand scheme of things,
does this make an impact or a difference or like
whatever it may be?

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Right, Yeah, I mean that's that's trying to be like
beyond your mortal capacity. How do you mean like you're
you're trying to You're like, oh, does anything I do
matter in the grand scheme of things? And it's like,
well no, but do you You can't. No, no mortal

(57:05):
can ever do anything that matters in the grand scheme
of themes, not even if you're I mean, you can
get you can get pretty close. I mean you can
write like I'm like, I don't know, Like, look at
Mark Zuckerberg, right, he completely utterly changed the day to
day life of all human beings on earth. Yeah, in
the grand scheme of like how you can zoom out
far enough that that doesn't even fucking matter, you know,

(57:28):
So it's like, yeah, sure you can. You can take
whatever vantage point upon your life and your work as
you want. You're eventually gonna find one where it doesn't matter.
And if you're going to zoom in far enough to
just the one person you are the universe and it
matters to you, so then it matters, you know. It's

(57:48):
like it's whatever vantage point you want to pick.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
True.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
No, that's a good that's a good thing. I think.
It's like, yeah, it's very easy to get lost in
the existentialism or like that the whole topic of meaning,
when in reality, it's like, you know, I can get
an email from someone that I did their wedding or
like whatever it may be, or like a band hits
me up after doing their photos like these are great,
you know, yeah, and it's just like yeah, and it's

(58:13):
just something that like, yeah, finding the touch points that
are our grounding points in an overtly digital world. I
think as a perspective that can be hard to look into.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
I mean, just one person being, you know, fucking with you,
is is good?

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Is all you need?

Speaker 3 (58:30):
If just one person tells you that your work was
impactful to them, that's that's enough.

Speaker 4 (58:36):
I think I would I would agree with that. I
think that's also it's like, you know, it's I don't
know if it's also like this is also something that
you are you know, I feel like it is something
that you have expressed, that you've dealt with in terms
of like that existential realm. But I don't know if

(58:58):
it's just like the over use social media and like
playing that comparison game and like just getting lost in
the scroll, you know, and then not having to focus
to like put on the right things, like still getting
all the stuff done right, but like, yeah, like it

(59:18):
not necessarily searching for the meaning. It's just like looking
for the stuff that is actually there that does mean
something that you overlook when you're like, yeah, way too
high above it.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Mm hmmmm hm.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
So I think there's a good point. I think I
think you've you've you've helped me figure out the I
don't know, it's like a It's a scattered time to
be alive, and my brain is very scattered about all
of it. But yeah, it all comes down to the
grounding points, right, friend's family, doing what you like to do,
connecting with people, not letting silly things get in the way,

(59:56):
being nice, you know.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
So, I don't know, man, what's your name against sir?

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
It's will Will?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
How many times have I asked you that over the
course of our conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
I think only one. I guess that would be the
second time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Will I will? Will? I? I uh will? I've hit
my quota today for existentialism.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
So any any any furtherance of this conversation I will
be useless in so I'll I'll end it before we
get to that point.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Anything else you want to appreciate you taking that time?

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Yeah, of course, Man, Is there anything else you want
to say to the people of the computer before we go?

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Yeah, you could hire me to shoot your wedding.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
By the time I get married, I'll probably have forgotten
about this.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
Well, that's all good.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Oh wait, Sorr, are you talking about me specifically or
you talking about whoever's listening.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Oh? I was talking to the people of the computer,
but I mean obviously if.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Sorry, I forgot, I forgot, I forgot that that was
I forgot that that was the question that I asked you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Yeah no, but if you if you want to, you can.
You can give me a shout at Candid Hughes h
U E. S Dot Photo on Instagram. I'm always available
and looking to work with cool people. So if you're
looking to work with a fun photographer who makes you
that easy, give.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Me up beautiful, take care well, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah you as well?

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
Shout out asle bye.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
What's up?

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
Man?

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
How's it going do? What's your name?

Speaker 6 (01:01:31):
Ken? Like this from the eminem album I'm gonna go
with that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
I'm not familiar with that, but that sounds cool. What's up?

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Ken?

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Has life? Dude.

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
I got fired on Friday, those thirteenth this month, and
I've just been chilling. It's been amazing. I hated that job,
so it was like the best thing ever happened. And
now I'm just trying to figure out what i want
to do after that. I don't know, trying to scheme
on the internet and try to figure out what to
do next. It sucks, but it's also been amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
I'm so happy, all all right, Well, let's start with
why it sucks. Why does it suck?

Speaker 6 (01:02:07):
Oh, it's like, oh man, it's like just the endless
possibilities of what you could do or what you could
do next, you know, and like, man, I have no
clue what I want to do next, which is both
like so scary but also so amazing because like I
can go anywhere from here. But yeah, no, Like, as

(01:02:27):
an impulsive decision, I decided to just say fucking go
to Japan. So I got like a three week solo
trip coming up in about a month, uh and hopefully,
hopefully this month I could try to figure out what
I want to do with like a job and all that,
but then just again, chill out in Japan, have a

(01:02:49):
great time, and then go from there.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
I don't know, Yeah, I mean, Japan's fucking wonderful. Man,
what are you applying for?

Speaker 6 (01:02:58):
So I got a mechanical engineering bachelor's degree, but dude,
I have no clue if I even want to do
anything about that. Yeah. No, I haven't even been applying
because I'm trying to figure out what exactly I want
to do. So I've been talking to random people what
their jobs are, like, try to see if that's something
I want to do. Maybe uh, do like data science

(01:03:19):
or acture. You're out. I don't fucking know, dude, anything
anything that's not stressful. Because this last job paid really well,
but it was so stressful, wasn't even worth it. I
would rather make like half the money that I made
back then and just killed the fuck out, you know,
so trying to find something like that. It don't even
have to be engineering, man, it could be like like

(01:03:40):
that that one person that was selling ice cream out
of an ice cream truck. And when I heard that shit,
I was like, ooh, I'd be down to do that.
I would love that as long as it pays for
what I want to do.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
I guess.

Speaker 6 (01:03:52):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
You kind of remind me of the last caller who
was talking about how he yeah, you know, the guy
in the van who was talking about how he wants
to just just like take a lower paying job for
the more for less stress.

Speaker 5 (01:04:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
I respect.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
I mean, I mean, you could, dude, you could just
like fucking if you wanted to just be a barista
and hang out.

Speaker 6 (01:04:13):
True true as you but yeah, okay, okay. The only
downside is like at some point I do want to
settle down and like have family and all that and
have enough money to buy a house. So you I
always got that in the back of my head, like,
oh shit, I gotta work on my career so then
I have enough money to do all this shit in
the future. But also like I'm I'm about to be

(01:04:33):
twenty seven, I'm still decently young. I could still you know,
I I you know, I could still fuck around a
little bit, do some do some random side quests, and
then figure that shit out later. Well, I don't know.
It almost feels like a form of procrastination, you know.
It's just, dude, there's just again, there's so many choices,
so many annavenus I can go down, and it's just
trying to make sure I pick the right one, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Yeah, it's uh, it's a difficult balance. It's a difficult balance.
I mean, i'd be lying to you if I I
this is the part I don't have good advice because
I just got lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Right right, Yeah, but uh, it's a difficult balance. I mean,
I mean, I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:05:17):
Think I felt like I got lucky with the last job.
Even though I hated it, it paid me so much
money that I was able to save up, so now
I have like a good pushion. So like, in a sense,
I was I was pretty lucky that they found me
on LinkedIn and they're like, hey, do you want a job,
And I'm like, you're gonna pay me double what I
make right now? I mean, hell yeah. I didn't ask
any questions.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
So it's like fuck it.

Speaker 6 (01:05:37):
So like, yeah, in a sense, I was kind of
lucky too, But I don't know, I don't know it's
part of but no, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
I was just gonna ask a part of town you
live in.

Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
I am in the suburbs of Chicago, and I really
want to live in the city because I've been just
staying with my parents and saving up money, which has
been great. I don't regret it, but I kind of
want to go out there and and be and be
out there in the world and and just experience not
living with my parents. You know, I'm ready for that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 6 (01:06:10):
Having the income to do that is my first goal.
And you try, I don't hate my job.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Can you live with like, can you live with like
six other dudes and pay like like five hundred dollars rent?

Speaker 6 (01:06:24):
Dude? Okay, yeah. Yeah, Yeah, So before I got fired,
I wasn't going to move in with my one buddy
and the rent would have been like eight hundred bucks
because Chicago isn't that bad. Now. I'm not against living
with like six other people. Uh, I just worry that
someone's not gonna like each other and some shit's gonna happen. Uh.
But if everyone's chill, I would fucking love that. I

(01:06:44):
am all for like minimizing my costs so that I
can make very little money and then low stress jobs
and still like enjoy life and go out and do shit.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
That seems to be the theme of That seems to
be the theme of today's episode. That seems to be
the theme of today's episode. Yeah, I mean I respect that.
I think that, Uh, there's something to be said about that, especially.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
It's a hard balancing act because you're aware of the
fact that I think I think it's a hard balancing
I think it's a balancing act that our generation in particular,
is like trying to figure out, right, because the economy
is all like fucking crazy and we're all like I
think I feel like our generation is the most woke
to the fact that time is finite. You know, maybe

(01:07:36):
that's maybe that's wrong, Maybe maybe they figure that shit
out back in the you know, one thousands or whatever.
But I feel like, I feel like our generation is
pretty woke to the fact that time is finite. And
you know, it used to be like, all right, you're
gonna work for forty years and then at the very
end you retire, and but it's like, well, now that's
just guaranteed.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
You know, It's like, how do I It's like, how
do I. How do I.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Balance living my life for today but also saving money
so that, you know, if I do want to like
live the quote unquote American dreams fucking have a house
and afford you know, a family and all that shit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Yeah, it's a tough balancing act. Dude. It's a tough
balancing act.

Speaker 6 (01:08:17):
Yeah. I think it also depends on who you talk to.
Because I was telling my dad my parents were never
good with money. But I was telling my dad like,
I'm saving up for retirement. He's looking he looks at
me crazy, like you're too young to save up for retirement.
And I was like, dude, no, like the earlier you start,
the better, And I tried to explain, like compound interests
and all that stuff, and he just he just kind
of waved his hand. But yeah, no, I feel like

(01:08:38):
it definitely depends person to person. Maybe maybe earlier generations
were just like fuck it, I'm gonna live day by
day and see what happens. I don't know. Now, I'm
just kind of talking out of just like personal experiences,
but yeah, maybe we are. This generation is a lot
more like oh my future, but not not just like

(01:09:00):
making a bunch of money and then retiring early, but
also like making sure you're also enjoying what's going on now.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:09:09):
Anyways, well, I'm just most excited for my Japan trip.
That's been my way of not thinking about it too much.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Are you going by yourself?

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
Yeah, dude, Okay, so I'm definitely doing Mount Fuji. There's
like a random Japanese rock band I want to go see,
so I gotta get tickets for that too. And then
I'm just I've just been asking everybody like, where the
hell should I go. I have no like concrete plans

(01:09:38):
because I would hate to just like be in this
city for two days and then I have to go
over to this city for three days. I kind of
just want to land there and see what the hell happens,
see what I like most. Yeah, yeah, but that's gonna
be fucking dope.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Which cities are you going to?

Speaker 6 (01:09:56):
Or do you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Are? You?

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
Are?

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
You? Just?

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Are you just free bawing it?

Speaker 6 (01:10:00):
So I'm flying into Tokyo at like one am. I
figured that out after I bought the ticket, and I'm like,
oh shit, I'm probably have to sleep in the Internet
cafe the first day, but that's fine. And then Mount Fuji, Okay,
you could. You can now kind of tell how little
planning I've done, but I think Mount Fuji is pretty
close to Tokyo, so I could. I'm pretty sure I
could take a train from there. And then this concert

(01:10:21):
is like a three minute train ride from Tokyo. So
those are probably the first two things I'm gonna do.
Get get that off the list, and then uh, probably
check out Osaka next, and I don't know, probably jump
around from Osaka and Tokyo unless there's some other cities
I find, you know that I really want to check out.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
I mean, Tokyo rocks man, you can, I you could
spend I you could spend three weeks in Tokyo. I
spent two months in there this year is great.

Speaker 6 (01:10:50):
Oh shit, wait, what'd you do out there?

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
I was hanging out. I thought about moving there for
a little bit and then I decided not to. But I, uh, yeah,
I had a great time. Shout I gotta go if
you want to. If you want a recommendation, I gotta
I gotta give a shout out to my homies at
the Tokyo Comedy Bar. There's a great comedy club in
the middle of Shabuyah. But yeah, I mean, if you

(01:11:15):
want advice for like, I mean, there's all the like
you could you should just you could just walk the
entire fucking city. Like there's Shibuya, Shinjuku, Ueno, actually, yeah whatever,
There's there's a Akiabara. There's just all these like great
neighborhoods that you could just spend infinite amount of time
just walking around and hanging out in.

Speaker 6 (01:11:37):
Oh yeah, I think that. I think that's what I
gotta do.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
And so you do that and then figure out the future. Yeah,
there's a Again, it's a balancing act of of of
the present in the future.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
But if you always focus on the future, you're never
in the president. If you're always in the present, you're go,
you go broke, and it's a whole thing.

Speaker 6 (01:11:58):
And like when whenever in my life am I going
to be able to just take three random weeks and
just like say fucking and go fly somewhere. It's like yeah,
sure you yeah, Like like sure you can find a
job that gives you like three or four weeks of PTO.
That's fucking tough to do. But even then, are you
gonna want to spend all all your your whole years
of PTO to go to one place? Like I'm it's

(01:12:18):
like not, fuck it. It just makes the most sense
to do right now.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
And you have savings though, right, you're not going into yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:12:25):
Thank god, thank god.

Speaker 4 (01:12:27):
Dude.

Speaker 6 (01:12:27):
When they fired me, they're like, we're gonna give you
two months severance, And dude, I was so happy. The
the HR guy got mad that I was so happy,
Like I was like, man, you're telling me you're giving
me two months of severance. Fuck yeah, I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Let's go rock and roll man, Well oh yeah, then
go crazy, man, I have a good time. What's your
name again?

Speaker 6 (01:12:44):
Hell yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Ken?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Ken?

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Ken?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Is the anything else you want to say to the
people the computer before we go?

Speaker 6 (01:12:51):
Uh? Like you said dude, live in the present, fuck it,
you know, don't, don't think too much about it, and
just fucking ball out.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
I guess I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Beautiful, beautiful, take care Ken, Alright, see you.

Speaker 6 (01:13:05):
The rep Can goes on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
The line taking your phone calls every night.

Speaker 6 (01:13:10):
The repink Can goes doing his eye.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
He's teaching you how to live your life, but he's
not really an expert.