February 19, 2025 • 58 mins
A caller experiences an episode of existential dread after taking some time off work, and shares their perspective on romance, figuring shit out, and just being alive in 2025. He called at a time that I was also experiencing existential dread so we got pretty into it. He was a good guy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Oh hey, Lyle, what's up man? How you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm all right? What's it called? I was, you know,
I had a little bit of time to myself. I
got like a month and a half off of work
and I got a you know, apartment to myself and
a lot of free time. And at first I was
having a good time, and then existential dread, you know,
(00:25):
started to set in.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Yes, all right, let's talk let's talk about this, let's
talk about this. And you know, last episode of this podcast,
I went on a whole rant about how solving your
problem or about how what is it that talking about
your problems doesn't really solve them? But I am curious
(00:51):
from your perspective. I want to know about your existential
crisis because I'm also in the midst of a strong
existential crisis. And I don't know why, but it's something
about your voice mode. You seem like a normal human
being that I can connect with, and so.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I want to know. I want to know about.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Your existential crisis and about your life.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Sure, So, you know, since I have a lot of
free time to think, I just want to preface this
whole thing real quick with so I do see a
therapist and I do see a therapist regularly, and I
know you're not, you know, like a certified therapist. And
you know, I was just hoping to get some like,
you know, perspective on some things. And I think it
(01:37):
all kind of goes back to I think two callers
ago you were talking about how you feel lonely at times.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Right, Yes, yes, I was talking about this.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah. So you know, for a long long time, I've
been dealing with depression and anxiety, and you know, very recently,
I you know, have had a very drastically different view
on how I view my defession anxiety. Like a lot
of you know, difficult moments in life, I'm learning the
(02:14):
gifts that they have to offer, right. You know, my
last relationship was like four.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Years ago, and you know, throughout these past four years,
you know, I've felt differently about loneliness as of right now,
you know, I have my spikes of loneliness, but they're kind.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Of they're filled with like like a sweet sadness, you know,
where I'm like, Okay, I'm lonely. You know, why what
is it I'm seeking out of a connection? You know,
is it like for somebody to hold me and tell
me you know that you know that I'm I'm good
enough that you know I'm doing a great job. Well,
(02:56):
I can. I can validate myself, you know, get the
validation from inside. So the gift that loneliness is offering
is you know, self love, you know, self validation, right,
pat yourself on the back. But you know, but I
I don't know, like I guess because I have all
(03:19):
this freet time and I'm not occupied. There's no action
that's being taken, you know, I'm just like, you know,
going out for a run, going out for a walk,
you know that like loneliness, Like I'm I don't know,
I just don't feel like a sense of urgency to like,
I don't know, like tackle it. And I'm having a
(03:39):
good time most of the time. So I'm just like,
what's the need for to go out there and like
actively look for a partner? You know, there's no you know,
I I just don't feel like putting in the effort there.
And at the same time, like I don't want to
be alone either, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yes, I do know what you mean. Yeah, I mean
idle Idle hands belong to the devil, and the devil
comes in many forms.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeh.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, Lately the devil for me is coming in the
form of looking at reddits and seeing a bunch of
like just insane things every day on there. But yeah,
I mean, you gotta do something or else. I mean,
that's what life is.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Really. Life is trying to fill your day with things
to do so that you don't die.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Now, I mean, not not so that you don't die,
so that you don't get depressed existential. Now, it's kind
of a privilege to be depressed existential in the sense that,
for like most of the world, the thing that they
focus on that they distract them from most of the world,
The thing that people are distracting themselves with so they
(05:00):
don't feel existential is their own pure survival.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's like what most people distract themselves with. If you're lucky,
you take some sense of pride in whatever it is
that you do to survive, or maybe whatever it is
you do to survive is supplemented by other things that
(05:28):
distract you, like you know, friends and family and a
dog or whatever the fuck. But yeah, I mean that's
it's just life is just trying to find ways to
not think.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Right. And you know, like so much of my life
is just like you know, it's not like, you know,
I'm like well off, you know, I'm like, you know,
I'm doing really well financially because I'm not. I'm like
fairly both most of the time. Right, But there's so
much good about my life where my social network, you know,
my friends. I've known everybody for such a long time,
(06:05):
like eighteen fifteen years, and I've a lot of really
solid friendships. My network is really supportive and loving all
the time and really understanding, you know. And but like
when it comes to like a search for a partner, right,
you know, that's like the difficult part for me where
(06:26):
I don't you know, I'm not in school, you know,
I'm not in college or anything. So there's that avenue
is like blocked off. Right. My job is like it's
a pretty messed up job, so you know, there's no
there's no you know, women around to interact with their right,
so that avenue is blocked off. And in the past,
(06:48):
like my relationships, you know, the ones I had, there's
just been friendships that like all of a sudden like
transition into a relationship, you know, and I never really
had to do any work, you know, in regards to
like courtship and ship right right, and now the only
avenue that's open is online dating, you know, yea, yeah,
(07:14):
you know, my therapist has been telling me, my friends
have been telling me, like, hey, you got to do
this thing, right, you got to give it a shot.
So all right, let me see what this whole thing
is about. And almost immediately it was like anxiety inducing.
You know, I've never really yeah, I could never really
(07:35):
articulate what it is precisely that I don't like about
online dating. You know, I'd say things like, oh, like
people just go through in the middle of the conversation.
That's frustrating, Or I don't like how fast pace everything is,
you know, like I'm just used to like slow paced
development of into like a intimate relationship, you know, from
(07:57):
a friendship, and everybody has a sense of urgency on
these dating apps where it's just like one after the
other's swipe through, swipe through, and you know, I see
it's not only anxiety inducing. I just see a lot
of problem with it. You know. It feels like, you know,
like how do I explain it? Like society is like
(08:20):
everybody like the idea that they have a falling in
love like, for example, like you wake up, you walk
out the door, and you're walking down the street and
you trip and fall and like a girl helps you up,
or you help up a girl that's falling down, right,
and you guys like, you know, make eye contact, and
you guys ask for each other's name. You guys go
(08:40):
out to a coffee shop. You guys like meet up
over the course of the next couple of weeks, months,
figuring out like each other's values, like what are you about,
where are you going? Who do you want to be?
You know, And it's like a slow, steady process of
falling in love, right, And there's none of that. I mean,
(09:02):
I think that's beautiful, right, and it's high risk and
it's beautiful. And online dating just ships you all of
that stuff, right of the slow sweetness of falling in love.
It's just like, oh, this person is like val.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Sly because I mean online online dating is just a
way of meeting people, you know what I mean. So look,
it's very possible that you can meet a lady on
the dating apps and you guys start talking and then
you know, maybe you start texting back and forth, and
you know, you just become friends. The way that like,
(09:42):
I mean, everyone forget about online dating specifically. I mean
everyone's like meeting each other and finding each other on
fucking discord and Instagram and.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
All these things.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And it's just like, you know, you could pretty easily
find not easily, but you know you can find someone
on these apps that you just start kind of gradually,
you know, texting or being with right. And here's the
here's the thing. I saw this in a Reddit comment
(10:14):
a long time ago. I'm gonna quote a Reddit comment, okay,
that that, uh, dating is for people who are either
dating is for people who are either patient or lucky.
So you have to be one of those two things.
And if you're not, you will you will fail.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You either have you either have to be super fucking lucky.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
To find love or you have to be super fucking patient.
And by being super fucking patient, it means like being
able to very easily brush off, you know, all the
common things like getting getting ghosted, getting rejected, not getting
any matches, whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
It is like you have to just be a to keep.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Brushing it off and just grind and for years, you know,
like actual true patients, like for years and not getting frustrated,
or you just get super lucky and you immediately log
in the first person you meet.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Up with off the app.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
You're attracted to them, they're attracted to you. You like
each other as human beings, and you get married.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You can or you can be super lucky. If you're lucky.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
If you're lucky, you're lucky, you know what I mean.
But if you're not lucky, you're just patience. Patience is
the only other answer to that, because looks like it's
like as everything, if you continue to put effort into
the search and it doesn't drive you fucking completely insane,
and you just keep being patient and you keep trying, eventually.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
It's like you'll find something.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I mean, we had a guy on the podcast come
in here talking about how he went on over one
hundred dates before he found the woman who he's currently
having a kid with, So you know it might take
one hundred dates.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
So so you know, I I kind of have like
an issue. I'm not saying in it of itself, that's
like a problem that a person is going on one
hundred dates and that's how somehow like morally or sthy
incorrect in some way. I'm not saying that at all,
right for me, personally. The issue I have with that,
right is when you're swiping through person after person, there's
(12:32):
this constant idea in the back of your mind. You
might not consciously acknowledge it, but let's say like you're
in a middle of a conversation with a girl online
that you match to it right, and things are just
going phenomenal. You're like, oh, man, we have so much
in common, Like, she's phenomenal. We have our political values
are aligned, you know, or you know or etcetera, etcetera
(12:54):
is aligned. But in the back of your mind you
know that any second now I might match with somebody
who's maybe slightly more attractive than her, or maybe slightly
more in tune with me, right sure, and online dating
in that way perpetuates the idea that love is about idealization.
(13:17):
We're looking for a perfect person. It's about idealization. It's
not about acceptance. The value of like going on less dates,
interacting with less people is that that slow, sweet grind
of getting to figure somebody out. There's so much acceptance
in that, right, because along the way, you're like, man,
(13:40):
I don't see eye to eye with her on these views,
but she's so great in so many other ways, but
I love her. She's great, right, And it becomes about acceptance,
which I personally think is what loves out to be
about at least.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So the going through iteration after iteration of people, it's like,
you know, it's like an access of something, right, Like
if you look at if you look at like, uh,
like back in my country, right, whenever we went over
to somebody's house.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And where is your country?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I was born in Pakistan? Okay, cool, in a very
very very small town. You know, no one's heard of
it at all. So it's like when I when I
was growing up, man, we were like we were forget
about cars. We were like riding around on like buggies
and horses and stuff, right to get around. And when
you go go over to somebody's house and they give
(14:38):
you a coca cola and a bottle, it was like whoa,
Like there, this is special, right, this is a special thing. Right.
It's not like every night in Pakistan we were having
like a can of coke with with their dinner or whatever.
Right now we have like an access of coca cola.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
You can get coca cola.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Any fucking time, right, And it's it kind of loses.
It's like, uh, I don't know, like there's an access
of it, it loses. It's like uh specialness to it. Right,
the way I see online dating, it's like an it's
like an axis of sexuality that's on top of it,
commodified through a capitalist system. Right, yeah. And before I
(15:21):
get through the even the head direction.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
No, go ahead, go ahead, you're you're you're speaking. Look
look look you're speaking total fat. Look I have agreed
with everything that you have said so far. I have
things to add on top of it, but god, yeah please.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. So you know, because in this system, the primary
motive for anything, like take education, healthcare, it's for profit.
It's for the bottom line. Online dating is no different.
Like I'm not going to pretend that. Like companies like
tint and Hinge Hinge and Tinder are out there and
(15:58):
the primary motive is to help me fall in.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Love because it's.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
For it's for them.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
For me, it's for me to engage as much as
possible in their apps so they can sell my data
to advertise this. Right, So it's not in their best
interest for me to find love. And uh, you know,
there was this a Harvard professor that did a study
on connection and love and online dating. And there was
a journalist that asked that Harvard professor and uh sex
(16:28):
worker the same exact question, do the algorithm's work. Both
of them said the same exact thing, No, they do not.
I found that kind of, you know, funny and interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Well look, look, look, here's the thing. Here's here's here's
everything you everything.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
You said is correct.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yes, these apps are incentivized to make you want to
continue to engage with them.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yes, it's a for profit system, all these things.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But but all so at the end of the day, look, man,
it's a it's a.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
For a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
A lot of people get fucked on the apps, for sure,
but for a lot of people it's a beneficiary transaction.
You know, the company makes money because they engage with
you and send you ads. And I know eight billion
people who fucking met their significant other on Tinder or hinge,
(17:31):
and so to completely utterly disregard any positive value that
these apps can bring is a mistake. But I think,
I think what you said about love being about acceptance
instead of idealization is also one hundred percent correct. And
(17:55):
you know it's interesting because it's like, yeah, I fully
agree with you that love is about except versus idealization.
But also at the same time, it's like, well, what
you have to kind of decide for yourself. Okay, what
can I not accept?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And then like what.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Do I what do I like like, make your list,
you know, make your list ideally as small as possible,
and then yeah, and then and then try to accept, uh,
and then try to do the work, because yeah, you'll
never fucking find like the I mean, sometimes you do
(18:36):
sometimes that by the way, that totally happens to some people.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It but it mainly happens to.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
People who are who are just really really physically attractive,
and that's not most people. So it's so it's probably
not gonna happen to ninety nine point nine nine percent
of the people, uh who are listening and or to
me or to you.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
But right right, Yeah, so you know, and I was saying,
you know what, I actually fucked that, even no, I actually
fuck that, even really hot people still I think have
there's levels of acceptance to that.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I actually I think I take that back.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mm hmm. Well, you know, in regards to you
saying like, uh, you know, we can't ignore the value
that it does have Let me let me just say, like,
right right there, that I know, I also know people
in my life that have met people online. They're married,
and they couldn't be a better fit for each other.
They're absolutely in love with each other. Their relationship is
(19:37):
successful and successful for many years. So I'm not you know,
by pointing out, you know, like a that there's a
mindless algorithm working behind the scenes to help you find
love and capitalism blah blah blah, that it somehow has
no value. It does, it does work, it does have value.
(19:58):
And I'm not saying that. You know, if I personally
happen to find somebody online and it works out that
somehow our love is tainted by the hands of capitalism, right,
it is not. It's just two people in love, right,
And I acknowledge that, you know this. This is like
my big problem is that, you know, there's so many, many,
(20:20):
many things in the system that I wholeheartedly disagree with
but nonetheless still participate in. Right, Like I might not
agree with certain corporations supporting certain wars out there, you know,
and nonetheless I'm gonna end up giving them my money,
you know, sure, And I have to, you know, there's
(20:43):
no ethical consumption under capitalism, you know, like that whole thing. Sure,
so I have to like pick and choose my battle.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Sure, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
In the process of trying to determine is this where
I draw my line with capitalism? Is this the one
thing that I pick? Like, you know what, I'm willing
to support some world out there with my money, with
my sack, ballace, whatever, but through my participation in the system.
But love, that's one thing I'm gonna hold sacred and
(21:12):
I'm going to remove myself from any participation in this
online dating shit and whatever happens happens, you know, as look.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Me, if that godhead you can finish, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You know. The way I look at it in life,
like the best case scenario is you get to do
the things that you want and be the person that
you wanted to be, and at the end of the day,
when you're on your deskbed, you had somebody long for
the ride. That's the best case scenario. Yeah, second best
case scenario. You know, you didn't get to do the
things you wanted, you didn't become the person you wanted
(21:47):
to become, but at least you have somebody long for
the ride. The worst case scenario, you didn't do the
things you wanted to do, you didn't become the person
you wanted to become, and you had nobody w loong
for the ride. I at least want to make sure
at the end of my life, on my deathbed that
I can say, you know, I had no one along
(22:08):
for the ride, but at least I was genuine and
authentic and was myself and got to do the things
that wanted right, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Like I know, I know, I know exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
How old are you so you know it's like I'm
thirty one?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Okay? Cool?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Cool?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Do you feel like as as of your life so
far that you've gotten to do all those things and
be the person that you've wanted to be and do
the things you've wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Honestly? Man, Like that's tough. Like it's only even the
past year of my life where I feel like I'm
kind of like waking up to like like joy and
happiness most of the time, you know, and and peace
and human constent. There's a couple of things, big things
(23:01):
that I really want to do for myself that you know,
I haven't gotten to do yet. And yeah, so there's
definitely things to let you know, left a cross off
of my list for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You know what's interesting is that.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And by the way, what I'm about to say is
not about romance, but about people.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Doing all the thing.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
It's tough, right because doing all the things that you
want to do with no one along the ride along
for the ride, it's a little all the ship depends
on who you are, because there's all these motherfuckers. I
don't I don't know how happy these people are, but
there was all these people on Instagram that are.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Like, I solo traveled for nine months through.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
All of Southeast Asia, all this stuff, and I'm like,
I used to want to do I've done stuff like that,
not for nine months, and I've lived life like that.
I've done lots of solo travel. I've done lots of
like amazing, cool, great stuff, and I'm so happy I
got to do it. But like the way I look
(24:09):
at it now, it's just like, ah, like, having to
do that all like alone, seems like tiresome at this age.
And at this point, you know what I mean, And
maybe that's say I don't know, I don't know what
that is. What is the one of the things that
you want to do that you said that you don't
know if you have time.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
For or or not that you don't have. If you
have time for that you haven't done yet.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Honestly, Like the biggest thing right is for me to
actually I want to be a behavioral therapist. And I
went to college many many, many years ago, and you know, actually,
in the pursuit of love, kind of gave that up
and moved across the country, uh, you know, for you know,
(24:59):
for my my girlfriend at the time. And you know,
things don't work out, I try to, you know, get
back to it. Things are gonna work out again, and
you know, so that's like one thing I want to
do is become a behavioral therapists, you know. And that's
a that's a long world ahead, that's many many years
of work, you know. And and the other thing I mean,
(25:23):
you know, is I was actually thinking about like what
is it that I ultimately want and and I thought
to myself, like, you know, if I have a studio
apartment in a relatively safe area, and I have my
behavioral therapy, you know, I'm a behavioral therapist. I have
(25:45):
my degree and I'm seeing a few clients. I have
a ten year old Corolla. Then, and you know, I'm
able to live and eat comfortably and not wake up
to like, you know, three dollars and twenty three cents
in my bank account. I'm like, you know, I'm going
to be perfectly happy. I know I would be happy
with that situation. I don't need, you know, I don't
(26:06):
I know, I don't need the fastest car and the
biggest house to be happy, right, But that kind of
kind of goes into like the you know, and then
and then I started thinking, Okay, I would be happy
with that, but what if I had a partner? Would
she be happy with that? And you know, is my
(26:31):
lack of desire for things themming from the fact that
I don't want to quote unquote participate in the capitalist
machine and so detach myself from material desires. So is it?
Uh huh?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
So if if you had a partner, right or like
in your in your so you know, we talked about
like love being acceptance, right, like if you could could
you But like we talked about love love is acceptance.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But it's good to have a few rules.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Is that one of your rules that she she can,
she has to join you in your rejection of capitalism.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
No, no, well, you know, I actually that's a really
good question. So many people around me have drastically different views,
you know, like my best friend, you know, drastically different
views regarding religion, political ideology, economic ideology, et cetera. But
when I think about like my partner, and I love
(27:29):
all of them and I'm very close to them. But
when I think about my partner not sharing this, I
don't need my partner to think the same way exact
way I do about social you know, Marxist socialism. But
you know, yeah, that's that's tough. Yeah, I know, I don't.
(27:50):
I don't want her to live exactly the way I do.
If she wants to consume things and have the fastest car. Good,
I just wouldn't want her to feel bad that I'm
not that way, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
So it's like she she well, that makes perfect sense, right.
It's like she doesn't have to be this way, but
she does have to accept that I am this way.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah. And even if she accepted it, right, I think
to myself, like, oh God, I hope there's no resentment
in her heart. And she doesn't think that I'm lacking
ambition in me. You know, this guy is living in
a studio, partner with a ten year old Corolla. I
hope that's like somehow brew like resentment in her heart.
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I mean that's the fucking that's the fucking dance of it,
you know, that's the that's the that's the that's the
acceptance dance, you know, acceptance verse resentment versus. It's a
big fucking dance. It's a big, ever evolving puzzle.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And you know, it aside from like a potential future
partner and how she might view my ambition or lack
of right, it also made me think about like my
family that I love and they love me so much
and my whole Like how would they view me Like
this guy he's like, you know, fifty five years old
and he's still driving a shitty car. You know, like
(29:11):
he's still like you know, just you know, just he's
getting by. He's independent, but he's not like thriving. We
thought he'd do so much, you know, And it was
such a conflicting thought because but eventually I stopped thinking
about it and I was like, you know what, this
is not the way to go about this thought process.
I have to decide in myself, like, am I okay
(29:36):
with it? Right?
Speaker 6 (29:37):
Right?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
And I can't make up my mind about that. I
can't figure out if my lack of ambition or lack
of desire for material things is coming from some sort
of like spiritual anti capitalist angle and you know, in
my mind or but but but that I think that
I'm not capable of accomplishing those things because you know,
ooh oh.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Oh, that's fascinating, that's fascinating. That's that's very that's that's
kind of hilarious. Actually, that is kind of hilarious. It
is kind of hilarious to be like to be like, like,
you know, like you're you're picketing for fucking uh like whatever,
You're You're like, I'm anti capitalists, you know, fuck the system,
(30:20):
blah blah blah. And then in the back of your
mind you're like, what if I'm only doing this because
I think I would.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Like sucking have a good job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's extremely funny, and it's extremely funny, and it's quite
possible that that might be the case that you just like,
I mean, yeah, if you're like super anti capitalists and
you're super not materialistic, it's like maybe you're just like
I think I'm just like a little fucking I just
don't want to work that hard. But you okay. But
(30:54):
here's the thing from talking to you is that you're
not like you're not like, oh, I just want to
like jerk off all day and play video.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
I don't want to do anything.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You're just like I don't wanna look heusing pretty much everyone, yeah,
just wants to be able to I think it's a
universal goal that everyone just wants to not have to
worry about money. Everyone just wants to not have to
worry about like their own survival and just like do
(31:30):
whatever they want to fucking do. That's like, I think
that's literally everyone, you know, from like hyper capitalists whatever
the fuck people to hyper you know, anti capitalist people.
Everyone is like that. So I don't think that's like
a completely uncommon.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Way to be. And you have like desires.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
You want to be a fucking behavioral therapist, you want
to help people, you want to do stuff, but you
just don't care about It's okay to not care about
making that much money or like not care about having
a nice car or not care about like how you
present to other people in terms of your like material status.
But like if you don't care about fucking anything, then yeah,
(32:14):
you're gonna be depressed, you know, but you clearly care about.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Definitely, And uh, you know, like I'm it sucks because
like I am, like you know, surrounded by people who
are doing really well, right, Like everybody you know is
really successful, and everybody's like, uh, you know, well off,
and uh, you know, it's it's a lot about like,
(32:43):
you know, getting getting more comfortable with myself. I think,
you know, like I said, you know, it's been only
so recently that I'm you know, becoming more of a
confident person more uh you know, a lot of like
you know, you know, practicing a lot of self love
and all that other.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Well where's that?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Where is all that coming? Where is all that coming from?
That you feel like you're becoming a better, happier person.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
This time last year, I was actually uh ended up
in a psyche ward right voluntarily, right a year ago,
and you know, coming out of it, like it was
a terrible experience in this cype where it was it
was pretty awful, right and coming out of it. I
(33:32):
just felt really empty, like completely empty. And my my
mom and my sisters, they they needed a lot of
financial help. And you know, I worked like a minimum
a job and I was just like, you know, I
don't think I can do anything in life right now,
(33:53):
like zero things. I think the only thing I'm capable
of doing is like just going to lay down somewhere
and then never getting up again.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But the love that I have for my mom and
my sisters who have been so kind, loving and supportive,
I was like, no, Like, if there's one thing I
gotta do is I got to make sure I can't.
I gotta get this money to them. Right. So I
was like, I'm just gonna do one thing. I'm just
gonna do. I'm completely empty, I have no desire of anything.
(34:26):
I'm just gonna do one thing. I'm just gonna go
to work and do my fucking job and then give
them money, right Yeah. And from and then from that,
I felt like a sense of purpose and know I
was like, Okay, I'm I'm contributing something. I'm producing something
and then contributing something, I'm helping them. And then gradually
(34:50):
I was like you know what, you know, I was
I was like pretty pretty overweight and ended up losing
like fifty pounds and this whole process, and I was like,
you know what. One day, I was like, it's been
a month and a half of me going to work
consistently on time every day. Let me just try like
working out, you know. Yeah, I started working out. And
(35:12):
then a month and a half after that, I was like,
you know what, I'm going to work and working out.
Let me try and eat a little bit better. I
don't have to eat like shit all the time, right,
And then gradually, like I just kept adding one more
thing and one more thing. I was like, one day,
I was like, you know, let me start meditating, you know.
And I started meditating and that helped profoundly. I was like,
(35:33):
you know what, let me start meditating and journaling and
on and on and on. So I like woke up
and I was just like, holy shit, Like I feel
very content, you know, I feel very at peace.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, Like yeah, because you're doing stuff, You're not just
like floating around in an endless ocean of of every
of everything and nothing at once.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And you know I think, uh, you know,
like I don't I don't have like a you know,
I don't have my own like room to sleep in,
and shit, right, I've like spent like three hours at
the house during the weekdays. Uh, you know, and that's
just like come home after the working gym, shower and
go right to sleep. And you know, it was it's
(36:19):
you're being thirty one and not having any fucking privacy, right,
It's rough, man. But you know I I one day
I was just like feeling really down about it, you know,
after you know, there's like two months, three months after
the site where I was just like, holy shit, I'm broke.
I'm like sleeping on on the floor in a living room.
(36:41):
I don't have privacy. This fucking sucks, right. So I
started meditating and I was like, you know what, every
time I feel anxiety in my life, every time I
feel like some pressure, I always try and distract myself
from it. I'll always try to fucking run away. But
I'm just gonna sit here for ten minutes it and
I'm just gonna sit with this anxiety. I'm just gonna
(37:02):
sit with this feeling of like I just fucking sucks, right.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
You know It's so funny though, you know, it's what's
really funny about this is that it feels, is that
sitting with that feeling for ten minutes feels like an eternity.
And yet I have, like, I like escape, and yet
every fucking time mode escaping that feeling by browsing Reddit
for for an hour, it takes way more time.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Isn't that insane?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
It is everything that you do to escape the feeling
takes way more time than actually like addressing.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Its addressing it right right? No, absolutely, And you know
I mean that I've distracted myself in one hundred ways.
Reddit is one, you know, just ah, fuck, I feel anxiety,
let me just like, you know, smoke the weed real quick. Right.
I'm not saying smoking weed is bad whatever. I smoke
eat all the fucking time. But when you're feeling anxiety,
(38:02):
in order to deal with it, like self medicating shit, right,
that's another way to distract yourself from it. There's a
hundred other ways. But you know, as I was like
sitting there with that feeling, and you know, I just
took some deep breaths, you know, five minutes later, I
was like, whoa, I'm safe here, Like I'm safe here.
(38:23):
And then in a living room with that room, yeah,
in this house, I am safe. I was like, I
have a place to sleep, Okay, I can get rest
and I'm safe. And I was like, wait, I have
love of like my mother and my sisters here right,
and I like, damn near shutter tear. And I was like, yo,
(38:45):
of course, Like that doesn't mean that I shouldn't strive
for independence, as I desperately want to it and I'm
working on it. But in that moment, right, just sitting
that feeling, it did me wonders. And that's kind of
like my thing on like h like, even with like
the loneliness thing, right, every time that feeling comes up,
(39:08):
I don't like, I don't try to like run away
from like no, no, no, Like now, I know I got
to sit with it, you know what I mean, because
it has gifts to offer. It has so many gifts
to offer. You know, as long as you're kind to yourself,
you know, you treat yourself with love. These these feelings,
you know, they have so many gifts to offer, the
gifts of patience, the gifts of understanding, you know, the
(39:32):
gifts of feeling content.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
So I think that's like ultimately what like spark the.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Awakening, you know, you know, you know, you know, Mo,
You're You're really I I just everything we've been talking
about over the past forty minutes. I really I'm really
with you on you know. We It's just the thing
is like there's we like we need I think, and
I'm not going to put this in like political science terms.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
I'll put this in like.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Uh, maybe I'll maybe I'll put this in like self
love terms. In a sense, it's like I'm like, I
don't know the exact numbers, but I think the right
there's it's like a yin and yang. And I talked
about this a little bit on a couple episodes. Is
like I think, like for my I'll use this just
(40:22):
as an example, and but this is like kind of
a microcosm for a larger concept of like, uh, you know,
I accept my body as it is, uh, and I
and I you know, I love myself and you know,
I accept myself and whatnot. But also yeah, but you know,
also I shouldn't be such a fat piece of shit
(40:43):
all the time, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Like, there's those two those two ideas.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
I really just believe so deeply that they can coexist
because if you only believe, because if you if you're
too hard on, like if I went too hard on
like accepting myself exactly as I am, I would be
fucking miserable. I would be depressed. I would never get
out of my bed. I would be eating from the
(41:11):
seven to eleven ten thousand calories of candy every single day.
It would be miserb If that, like, that's full acceptance
right there, that's a hundred percent acceptance. I think, do
you need like fifty percent acceptance and then fifty percent
I'm gonna not be I'm gonna not eat candy and
stop being a.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Fat piece of shit.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
But if you're if you're if I'm one hundred percent,
like I'm a piece of shit, I suck, I'm you know,
I'm fat and asia if then that you're just anxious
and miserable all the time, you know, So you need
That's why we need. We need like I don't know
what it is?
Speaker 1 (41:48):
What is there? What's between capitalism and socialism? We need that? Like,
what's something we need that?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
We need those two things combined divided by two because
I really have been because here's another thing. Here's here's
two more idea, here's two conflicting ideas. Is I've really
genuinely intrinsically have sincerely been enjoying having this conversation with
you about you know, capitalism and uh uh you know.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Acceptance and let and all these things.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
And I'm also totally gonna put an ad break afterwards
so that I can make money. I'm going to do
both of those things.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Can we get how do.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
We combine these two things? There's something There's gotta be
something in the middle that is the perfect Yin and
yang way to live because you know, because right because
if it's all because we don't want like like like
a billion dollars is too much money, you know we're
gonna get.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I don't know what we're getting into.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
But like yeah, well, well, you know, in regards to
like you saying, you know, I accept myself completely, I
love myself completely, right, and you know, there's I think
there's like this whole thing going on in society right now,
and it's like stemming from these like upscale yoga studios
(43:16):
where people are like chilling over their crystals a lot,
and they're they're turning these like profound truths right on
how to be into something like really like overused in cliche.
You know, like this whole idea of like I love myself.
Speaker 6 (43:36):
Completely, right, there's just so much of like spirituality and
psychology that's turning into like pop spirituality psychology, right.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
And the way a lot of these like I don't know,
what do you want to call like influencers or you know,
self proclaimed yoga gurus, right, the way that they promote
these things the same exact thing you said, I love
myself fully. It's coupled with this like sense of there's
no like they don't take the responsibility to like break
(44:12):
that down a little bit further. They just promoted as that, right,
And it's I don't know, it's like kind of like
coupled with like a sense of consumption, and there's somewhere
it's kind of like attached to that, you know. And
and and I think that that's like the problem like
these when these just simple truths about life that everybody
(44:34):
pretty much knows, when they start to become cliche. It's
just like, you know, because I heard a lot of
this shit when I was like trying to I don't know,
you want to call it better myself, right, Like when
I heard first heard the word mindfulness, I kind of
like laughed at that idea. Right, I'm like, yo, what
is this like you know, yoga studio bullshit? You know, yeah,
(44:54):
because I associate that completely with like people like rubbing
on crystals, talking about like hippy dippy ship. But when
I looked into mindfulness, when I like read about it,
when I you know, when I read books from like
Don Miguel Reeve's Junior and donal Miguil Reeves, like I
was like, Oh, this is actually genuinely profound, This is
actually genuinely helpful. You know. I think a lot of
(45:17):
these things become so cliche, you know, they have a
sense of like pop culture attached to them, and I
think that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, I well, yeah, I agree with that too. I
don't like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I also don't like the kind of like overly flowery
presentation of mindfulness and self love because it's it makes it,
you know, it's like it's.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Like putting too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
It's just yeah, it's but it's it's it's it's helpful
stuff when you're actually get into it.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I don't know, man, I everything you're saying makes a
lot of sense. Everything you're saying makes a lot of sense.
I'm trying to remind myself of a lot of these
concepts as well as I have my own personal existential crisises.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
You know.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
You know you said you feel two collars ago. I
believe it was I would like listening in and out,
you know, but one of the things you had said
was like you feel uh directionless?
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Right, Yeah, I do often feel directionless.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Sure, I would just I mean, if you feel comfortable,
I mean, you know, like expanding on that, like sharing
a bit about it. If you don't, that's completely fine,
you know, sure.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
I mean, yeah, fuck it, Sure, I mean, well, I
I like doing this podcast, you know, especially when I
get to have conversations like.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
These that I really enjoy.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Right, But you know, I'm and you know also like
I'm engaged right now, I'm like actually doing something in
this very moment talking to you. But like a lot
of the time, I feel I kind of let myself
go a little bit.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
I feel a little.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Unengaged, and I'm like, uh, you know, what should I
do to Like, I'm just trying to figure out like
what to do next, Like I think I always with
the Gecko thing, I was always like, well, what should
I do next with this? Like, because this is gonna
be like a you know, I guess the thing that
I can do something else with And right now where
I'm doing is I'm just like.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
I've decided that.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Sitting and trying to think about the direction that you
want your life to go in next is a little
stupid because your life doesn't move forward. Oh fuck, I
just knock something over on the table. Your life doesn't
move for your life doesn't move forward as a result
of you like thinking, like I mean, you think a
(48:06):
little bit, right, it's another yin yang thing, but like
you know, you think.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Too much, you go into a spiral.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
And so I'm just like, you know what, I'm just
gonna do things that I think are cool. Like I'm
I think by the time this episode airs, I'll be
walking through rural Japan with my boy Jason. I'm gonna
I'm doing an art gallery. I think that'll be cool.
So I'm just like, I'm just I'm in a let
(48:36):
me try shit, because you know, I built this audience
with this podcast and it's cool, and I'm like, well,
what else can I do? You know that would just
be fun or cool or interesting or exciting, because uh,
you know, I don't want to be stuck in the same.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Routine over like I.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Don't like And I'm also just I'm like, man, I'm
gonna be as I'm getting older, I'm realizing that all
the ages I thought I would never be, I'm going
to be like, like, if you told me at nineteen
that one day I would be twenty seven, I just.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Wouldn't believe you. And now I am that.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
And so now I'm having this existential crisis where I'm like, oh, no,
one day I'm going to be fifty six years old,
What the hell is my life gonna look like? Am
I gonna be wearing this gecko suit when I'm fifty
six years old? You know people do that, like people
like musicians or whatever, like you know people, you know,
I'm just like, what the hell is my life going
to look like? So I just gotta keep trying new,
(49:35):
different things that I think maybe could be cool or
interesting to try to find a new path for it.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Because I've tried to.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I've like thought of I've like, I've like journaled endlessly
about what I might wanna do with myself. But it's
just kind of and especially like with the you know, like,
how do I, you know, do more things in person
that I think would be cool, because you know, I
really feel like I enjoy being out in the real
(50:07):
world more than I do in the uh in the
computer world, and so I'm just.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Trying to figure out how to do that stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
And I've and I've and again you fall into the
trap of like, oh, I'm gonna journal until I come
up with the perfect idea of something to do. And
I don't think I think that's a bad strategy. So
I'm just kind of like, okay, let me my My
ultimate anecdote to my directionlessness has been okay, let me
just start like doing things that could potentially be interesting.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
And then now again, you know, on my we.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
Talked about the deathbed, and I'm like, look, when I'm
on my deathbed, I'm not going to regret having tried
these various things that might be cool or interesting to do.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
See that's my that's my little spiel.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
You know, there's two things you said. I think like
you like nailed on the head right, Like one thing,
I mean, I'll just coum it up with like you
know you said, uh pretty much. You know, uh, it's
not that motivation comes first and then you take action.
Right now, you you take action first, and then motivation
(51:11):
eventually comes, you know, yeah, yeah, you gotta do shit, right.
And the second thing you said is like, you know
you're journaling, journaling, journaling, kind of come up with the
perfect thing that that that's like a huge, you know, hurdle. Actually,
it's good to journal, it's great to journal, uh, but
like to think of like what is the optimal the
(51:33):
number one option in my life right now? The perfect option? Right,
I'm gonna wait until I come up with that and
then do that. Right, That's exactly That is a massive hurdle.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
It's exactly what I've been doing for years. It's it's yeah,
it's a massive hurdle. It's almost akin to like idealization
versus acceptance, right.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Right, right, yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, you know,
and you know they're just like this is one song
I listened to almost every single day, right, and there's
a line in it that I absolutely love. That helps
me out a lot, because you know, like I don't know,
like I'm working this job right now, that's like feels
(52:20):
I know it's not meaningless, and I definitely know that
deep down that it's not meaningless, right, But at times
when it does start to feel feel meaningless, right, I
always keep this like line in my mind, you know,
which is I got it translated from a different language
to English, which I think it would translate to. I
(52:41):
put two paper wings on my heart and watch it
float away where I thought it would go. It didn't.
My heart might be directionless, but it's not distracted, and
that helps me.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
But it's not distract I'm putting that on a I'm
getting that branded on my ass, yo.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
You know, And I've heard you know, I've seen a
lot of your clips, so much of that shit is hilarious, right,
But I've seen also seen the stuff like you're interview
with logic. I saw all of that, right, And you know,
I mean, I don't know you personally. You know, you
seem like a person with a good heart. If I
was to take a wild fucking guess, but who knows,
(53:31):
you might be just a dude dressed up as a
get go with green kite on his face, murdering people
in a basement already. But as far as I can tell,
right like, you seem like a pretty a person with
a good heart, right, with good intentions. You know that
alone you, I think, is like you should take a
little bit of comfort in that. Right, it's gonna, it's gonna,
(53:51):
it's gonna take you right right.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
I'm gonna. I'm trying my best. Man, I'm trying my best.
Oh man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
I'm trying my best to be Uh, I don't know,
I guess my well, my main motivations lately have just
been like to you know again, escape from despair. Yeah,
this has been my main motivation. You know sometimes I
(54:21):
think sometimes I think, you know, as funny as I think.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead? No, no, yeah, I forget
what what what? What? What were you going to say?
Speaker 3 (54:31):
And then you know, I I have to I have
to end this call sort of soon because I think
you've tricked me into being vulnerable. No not actually not
actually well, I mean a little bit actually, but it's okay,
it's it's okay, I accept it.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
What were you going to say this call?
Speaker 2 (54:51):
I know you're you're in Japan right now, right, I
don't want to take up too much of your time.
But have you heard of the movie called Perfect Days?
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Perfect Days? Oh? That's uh, yeah, I have heard of
that movie. I never watched it, though, I.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Think you might get something out of it if you
have the time to check it out. I think the
based on all the conversations that we just had right now,
if you get the time to check it out, and
I think it'd be super special while you check it
out in Japan as a Japanese Willee, you know, mm.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
Hmm okay, cool, maybe I'll watch it, might enjoy Yeah, yeah,
okay maybe, oh.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah, definitely. Well thanks, man, I really appreciate you talking
to me. I really appreciate you, you know, balancing ideas
off and such. This is actually this felts great. Like
I was sitting here and I was just about to meditate,
but I was like, you know what, let me see
if Lyle happens to cover. So this really put us
(55:50):
bile on my face. Man, I feel I feel really happy,
you know. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Thank you, Mo.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
I appreciate it, sincerely, very very good talking to you.
This feel I feel like today today the the Therapy
Gecko was was therapy.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
This is the.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
Therapy mode episode you Therapy geckoed the Therapy Gecko today,
So thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
When I when I when I officially become a therapist,
I'll see you as my first client.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Man, that would be uh. That sounds like a conflict
of interest, but I'm down. I'm game, all right.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Man, you have a good time in Japan, you know.
Thank you. I hope you go do your thing.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
Man, take it easy, thank you, thank you. Take it easy.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
Later on, Man, that was a nice phone call. I
really enjoyed talking to Mo.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
It it's you know, it's interesting. I went again.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
I went on a rant uh last episode about talking
about your problems, not really solving them, but it helps you.
It does help you think, like I mean again, and
it's a yin yang fucking thing. There's like fifty percent
thinking and fifty percent. I don't know what the exact
ratios are, but it's some math equation that's part thinking
(57:11):
and part taking actual action. And I think if you're
and I'm definitely a neurotic person, I'm definitely an overthinker,
and so I think, I h I think I think
too much. Is a spiral of thinking. But it is
good to kind of have a conversation like that that
gets you with another person.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
MO definitely described a lot of things that I have
cooking in my brain as well. And it's nice when
you get to talk to somebody like that because it
makes you feel like you're not crazy, you know, for
having you.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
You're actually you.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
What you may think is some kind of unique human
experience has actually been fucking observed and recorded by other
people who are not you, which is comforting sense. So yeah,
I appreciate uh MO for calling in, and do I
(58:09):
have anything else to say? I hope that conversation was beneficial
for the people of the computer to listen to. And
I'm a gecko and thank you guys for listening. Goes
on the line, taking your phone calls every night, demand
goes to ride.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
He's teaching you a loud in the memorial line, but
he's not really an expert.
Hello, Oh hey, Lyle, what's up man? How you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm all right? What's it called? I was, you know,
I had a little bit of time to myself. I
got like a month and a half off of work
and I got a you know, apartment to myself and
a lot of free time. And at first I was
having a good time, and then existential dread, you know,
(00:25):
started to set in.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Yes, all right, let's talk let's talk about this, let's
talk about this. And you know, last episode of this podcast,
I went on a whole rant about how solving your
problem or about how what is it that talking about
your problems doesn't really solve them? But I am curious
(00:51):
from your perspective. I want to know about your existential
crisis because I'm also in the midst of a strong
existential crisis. And I don't know why, but it's something
about your voice mode. You seem like a normal human
being that I can connect with, and so.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I want to know. I want to know about.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Your existential crisis and about your life.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Sure, So, you know, since I have a lot of
free time to think, I just want to preface this
whole thing real quick with so I do see a
therapist and I do see a therapist regularly, and I
know you're not, you know, like a certified therapist. And
you know, I was just hoping to get some like,
you know, perspective on some things. And I think it
(01:37):
all kind of goes back to I think two callers
ago you were talking about how you feel lonely at times.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Right, Yes, yes, I was talking about this.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah. So you know, for a long long time, I've
been dealing with depression and anxiety, and you know, very recently,
I you know, have had a very drastically different view
on how I view my defession anxiety. Like a lot
of you know, difficult moments in life, I'm learning the
(02:14):
gifts that they have to offer, right. You know, my
last relationship was like four.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Years ago, and you know, throughout these past four years,
you know, I've felt differently about loneliness as of right now,
you know, I have my spikes of loneliness, but they're kind.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Of they're filled with like like a sweet sadness, you know,
where I'm like, Okay, I'm lonely. You know, why what
is it I'm seeking out of a connection? You know,
is it like for somebody to hold me and tell
me you know that you know that I'm I'm good
enough that you know I'm doing a great job. Well,
(02:56):
I can. I can validate myself, you know, get the
validation from inside. So the gift that loneliness is offering
is you know, self love, you know, self validation, right,
pat yourself on the back. But you know, but I
I don't know, like I guess because I have all
(03:19):
this freet time and I'm not occupied. There's no action
that's being taken, you know, I'm just like, you know,
going out for a run, going out for a walk,
you know that like loneliness, Like I'm I don't know,
I just don't feel like a sense of urgency to like,
I don't know, like tackle it. And I'm having a
(03:39):
good time most of the time. So I'm just like,
what's the need for to go out there and like
actively look for a partner? You know, there's no you know,
I I just don't feel like putting in the effort there.
And at the same time, like I don't want to
be alone either, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yes, I do know what you mean. Yeah, I mean
idle Idle hands belong to the devil, and the devil
comes in many forms.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeh.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, Lately the devil for me is coming in the
form of looking at reddits and seeing a bunch of
like just insane things every day on there. But yeah,
I mean, you gotta do something or else. I mean,
that's what life is.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Really. Life is trying to fill your day with things
to do so that you don't die.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Now, I mean, not not so that you don't die,
so that you don't get depressed existential. Now, it's kind
of a privilege to be depressed existential in the sense that,
for like most of the world, the thing that they
focus on that they distract them from most of the world,
The thing that people are distracting themselves with so they
(05:00):
don't feel existential is their own pure survival.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's like what most people distract themselves with. If you're lucky,
you take some sense of pride in whatever it is
that you do to survive, or maybe whatever it is
you do to survive is supplemented by other things that
(05:28):
distract you, like you know, friends and family and a
dog or whatever the fuck. But yeah, I mean that's
it's just life is just trying to find ways to
not think.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Right. And you know, like so much of my life
is just like you know, it's not like, you know,
I'm like well off, you know, I'm like, you know,
I'm doing really well financially because I'm not. I'm like
fairly both most of the time. Right, But there's so
much good about my life where my social network, you know,
my friends. I've known everybody for such a long time,
(06:05):
like eighteen fifteen years, and I've a lot of really
solid friendships. My network is really supportive and loving all
the time and really understanding, you know. And but like
when it comes to like a search for a partner, right,
you know, that's like the difficult part for me where
(06:26):
I don't you know, I'm not in school, you know,
I'm not in college or anything. So there's that avenue
is like blocked off. Right. My job is like it's
a pretty messed up job, so you know, there's no
there's no you know, women around to interact with their right,
so that avenue is blocked off. And in the past,
(06:48):
like my relationships, you know, the ones I had, there's
just been friendships that like all of a sudden like
transition into a relationship, you know, and I never really
had to do any work, you know, in regards to
like courtship and ship right right, and now the only
avenue that's open is online dating, you know, yea, yeah,
(07:14):
you know, my therapist has been telling me, my friends
have been telling me, like, hey, you got to do
this thing, right, you got to give it a shot.
So all right, let me see what this whole thing
is about. And almost immediately it was like anxiety inducing.
You know, I've never really yeah, I could never really
(07:35):
articulate what it is precisely that I don't like about
online dating. You know, I'd say things like, oh, like
people just go through in the middle of the conversation.
That's frustrating, Or I don't like how fast pace everything is,
you know, like I'm just used to like slow paced
development of into like a intimate relationship, you know, from
(07:57):
a friendship, and everybody has a sense of urgency on
these dating apps where it's just like one after the
other's swipe through, swipe through, and you know, I see
it's not only anxiety inducing. I just see a lot
of problem with it. You know. It feels like, you know,
like how do I explain it? Like society is like
(08:20):
everybody like the idea that they have a falling in
love like, for example, like you wake up, you walk
out the door, and you're walking down the street and
you trip and fall and like a girl helps you up,
or you help up a girl that's falling down, right,
and you guys like, you know, make eye contact, and
you guys ask for each other's name. You guys go
(08:40):
out to a coffee shop. You guys like meet up
over the course of the next couple of weeks, months,
figuring out like each other's values, like what are you about,
where are you going? Who do you want to be?
You know, And it's like a slow, steady process of
falling in love, right, And there's none of that. I mean,
(09:02):
I think that's beautiful, right, and it's high risk and
it's beautiful. And online dating just ships you all of
that stuff, right of the slow sweetness of falling in love.
It's just like, oh, this person is like val.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Sly because I mean online online dating is just a
way of meeting people, you know what I mean. So look,
it's very possible that you can meet a lady on
the dating apps and you guys start talking and then
you know, maybe you start texting back and forth, and
you know, you just become friends. The way that like,
(09:42):
I mean, everyone forget about online dating specifically. I mean
everyone's like meeting each other and finding each other on
fucking discord and Instagram and.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
All these things.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And it's just like, you know, you could pretty easily
find not easily, but you know you can find someone
on these apps that you just start kind of gradually,
you know, texting or being with right. And here's the
here's the thing. I saw this in a Reddit comment
(10:14):
a long time ago. I'm gonna quote a Reddit comment, okay,
that that, uh, dating is for people who are either
dating is for people who are either patient or lucky.
So you have to be one of those two things.
And if you're not, you will you will fail.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You either have you either have to be super fucking lucky.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
To find love or you have to be super fucking patient.
And by being super fucking patient, it means like being
able to very easily brush off, you know, all the
common things like getting getting ghosted, getting rejected, not getting
any matches, whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
It is like you have to just be a to keep.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Brushing it off and just grind and for years, you know,
like actual true patients, like for years and not getting frustrated,
or you just get super lucky and you immediately log
in the first person you meet.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Up with off the app.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
You're attracted to them, they're attracted to you. You like
each other as human beings, and you get married.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You can or you can be super lucky. If you're lucky.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
If you're lucky, you're lucky, you know what I mean.
But if you're not lucky, you're just patience. Patience is
the only other answer to that, because looks like it's
like as everything, if you continue to put effort into
the search and it doesn't drive you fucking completely insane,
and you just keep being patient and you keep trying, eventually.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
It's like you'll find something.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I mean, we had a guy on the podcast come
in here talking about how he went on over one
hundred dates before he found the woman who he's currently
having a kid with, So you know it might take
one hundred dates.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
So so you know, I I kind of have like
an issue. I'm not saying in it of itself, that's
like a problem that a person is going on one
hundred dates and that's how somehow like morally or sthy
incorrect in some way. I'm not saying that at all,
right for me, personally. The issue I have with that,
right is when you're swiping through person after person, there's
(12:32):
this constant idea in the back of your mind. You
might not consciously acknowledge it, but let's say like you're
in a middle of a conversation with a girl online
that you match to it right, and things are just
going phenomenal. You're like, oh, man, we have so much
in common, Like, she's phenomenal. We have our political values
are aligned, you know, or you know or etcetera, etcetera
(12:54):
is aligned. But in the back of your mind you
know that any second now I might match with somebody
who's maybe slightly more attractive than her, or maybe slightly
more in tune with me, right sure, and online dating
in that way perpetuates the idea that love is about idealization.
(13:17):
We're looking for a perfect person. It's about idealization. It's
not about acceptance. The value of like going on less dates,
interacting with less people is that that slow, sweet grind
of getting to figure somebody out. There's so much acceptance
in that, right, because along the way, you're like, man,
(13:40):
I don't see eye to eye with her on these views,
but she's so great in so many other ways, but
I love her. She's great, right, And it becomes about acceptance,
which I personally think is what loves out to be
about at least.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So the going through iteration after iteration of people, it's like,
you know, it's like an access of something, right, Like
if you look at if you look at like, uh,
like back in my country, right, whenever we went over
to somebody's house.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And where is your country?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I was born in Pakistan? Okay, cool, in a very
very very small town. You know, no one's heard of
it at all. So it's like when I when I
was growing up, man, we were like we were forget
about cars. We were like riding around on like buggies
and horses and stuff, right to get around. And when
you go go over to somebody's house and they give
(14:38):
you a coca cola and a bottle, it was like whoa,
Like there, this is special, right, this is a special thing. Right.
It's not like every night in Pakistan we were having
like a can of coke with with their dinner or whatever.
Right now we have like an access of coca cola.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
You can get coca cola.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Any fucking time, right, And it's it kind of loses.
It's like, uh, I don't know, like there's an access
of it, it loses. It's like uh specialness to it. Right,
the way I see online dating, it's like an it's
like an axis of sexuality that's on top of it,
commodified through a capitalist system. Right, yeah. And before I
(15:21):
get through the even the head direction.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
No, go ahead, go ahead, you're you're you're speaking. Look
look look you're speaking total fat. Look I have agreed
with everything that you have said so far. I have
things to add on top of it, but god, yeah please.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. So you know, because in this system, the primary
motive for anything, like take education, healthcare, it's for profit.
It's for the bottom line. Online dating is no different.
Like I'm not going to pretend that. Like companies like
tint and Hinge Hinge and Tinder are out there and
(15:58):
the primary motive is to help me fall in.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Love because it's.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
For it's for them.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
For me, it's for me to engage as much as
possible in their apps so they can sell my data
to advertise this. Right, So it's not in their best
interest for me to find love. And uh, you know,
there was this a Harvard professor that did a study
on connection and love and online dating. And there was
a journalist that asked that Harvard professor and uh sex
(16:28):
worker the same exact question, do the algorithm's work. Both
of them said the same exact thing, No, they do not.
I found that kind of, you know, funny and interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Well look, look, look, here's the thing. Here's here's here's
everything you everything.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
You said is correct.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yes, these apps are incentivized to make you want to
continue to engage with them.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yes, it's a for profit system, all these things.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But but all so at the end of the day, look, man,
it's a it's a.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
For a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
A lot of people get fucked on the apps, for sure,
but for a lot of people it's a beneficiary transaction.
You know, the company makes money because they engage with
you and send you ads. And I know eight billion
people who fucking met their significant other on Tinder or hinge,
(17:31):
and so to completely utterly disregard any positive value that
these apps can bring is a mistake. But I think,
I think what you said about love being about acceptance
instead of idealization is also one hundred percent correct. And
(17:55):
you know it's interesting because it's like, yeah, I fully
agree with you that love is about except versus idealization.
But also at the same time, it's like, well, what
you have to kind of decide for yourself. Okay, what
can I not accept?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And then like what.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Do I what do I like like, make your list,
you know, make your list ideally as small as possible,
and then yeah, and then and then try to accept, uh,
and then try to do the work, because yeah, you'll
never fucking find like the I mean, sometimes you do
(18:36):
sometimes that by the way, that totally happens to some people.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It but it mainly happens to.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
People who are who are just really really physically attractive,
and that's not most people. So it's so it's probably
not gonna happen to ninety nine point nine nine percent
of the people, uh who are listening and or to
me or to you.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
But right right, Yeah, so you know, and I was saying,
you know what, I actually fucked that, even no, I actually
fuck that, even really hot people still I think have
there's levels of acceptance to that.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I actually I think I take that back.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mm hmm. Well, you know, in regards to you
saying like, uh, you know, we can't ignore the value
that it does have Let me let me just say, like,
right right there, that I know, I also know people
in my life that have met people online. They're married,
and they couldn't be a better fit for each other.
They're absolutely in love with each other. Their relationship is
(19:37):
successful and successful for many years. So I'm not you know,
by pointing out, you know, like a that there's a
mindless algorithm working behind the scenes to help you find
love and capitalism blah blah blah, that it somehow has
no value. It does, it does work, it does have value.
(19:58):
And I'm not saying that. You know, if I personally
happen to find somebody online and it works out that
somehow our love is tainted by the hands of capitalism, right,
it is not. It's just two people in love, right,
And I acknowledge that, you know this. This is like
my big problem is that, you know, there's so many, many,
(20:20):
many things in the system that I wholeheartedly disagree with
but nonetheless still participate in. Right, Like I might not
agree with certain corporations supporting certain wars out there, you know,
and nonetheless I'm gonna end up giving them my money,
you know, sure, And I have to, you know, there's
(20:43):
no ethical consumption under capitalism, you know, like that whole thing. Sure,
so I have to like pick and choose my battle.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Sure, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
In the process of trying to determine is this where
I draw my line with capitalism? Is this the one
thing that I pick? Like, you know what, I'm willing
to support some world out there with my money, with
my sack, ballace, whatever, but through my participation in the system.
But love, that's one thing I'm gonna hold sacred and
(21:12):
I'm going to remove myself from any participation in this
online dating shit and whatever happens happens, you know, as look.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Me, if that godhead you can finish, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You know. The way I look at it in life,
like the best case scenario is you get to do
the things that you want and be the person that
you wanted to be, and at the end of the day,
when you're on your deskbed, you had somebody long for
the ride. That's the best case scenario. Yeah, second best
case scenario. You know, you didn't get to do the
things you wanted, you didn't become the person you wanted
(21:47):
to become, but at least you have somebody long for
the ride. The worst case scenario, you didn't do the
things you wanted to do, you didn't become the person
you wanted to become, and you had nobody w loong
for the ride. I at least want to make sure
at the end of my life, on my deathbed that
I can say, you know, I had no one along
(22:08):
for the ride, but at least I was genuine and
authentic and was myself and got to do the things
that wanted right, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Like I know, I know, I know exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
How old are you so you know it's like I'm
thirty one?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Okay? Cool?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Cool?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Do you feel like as as of your life so
far that you've gotten to do all those things and
be the person that you've wanted to be and do
the things you've wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Honestly? Man, Like that's tough. Like it's only even the
past year of my life where I feel like I'm
kind of like waking up to like like joy and
happiness most of the time, you know, and and peace
and human constent. There's a couple of things, big things
(23:01):
that I really want to do for myself that you know,
I haven't gotten to do yet. And yeah, so there's
definitely things to let you know, left a cross off
of my list for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You know what's interesting is that.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And by the way, what I'm about to say is
not about romance, but about people.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Doing all the thing.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
It's tough, right because doing all the things that you
want to do with no one along the ride along
for the ride, it's a little all the ship depends
on who you are, because there's all these motherfuckers. I
don't I don't know how happy these people are, but
there was all these people on Instagram that are.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Like, I solo traveled for nine months through.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
All of Southeast Asia, all this stuff, and I'm like,
I used to want to do I've done stuff like that,
not for nine months, and I've lived life like that.
I've done lots of solo travel. I've done lots of
like amazing, cool, great stuff, and I'm so happy I
got to do it. But like the way I look
(24:09):
at it now, it's just like, ah, like, having to
do that all like alone, seems like tiresome at this age.
And at this point, you know what I mean, And
maybe that's say I don't know, I don't know what
that is. What is the one of the things that
you want to do that you said that you don't
know if you have time.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
For or or not that you don't have. If you
have time for that you haven't done yet.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Honestly, Like the biggest thing right is for me to
actually I want to be a behavioral therapist. And I
went to college many many, many years ago, and you know, actually,
in the pursuit of love, kind of gave that up
and moved across the country, uh, you know, for you know,
(24:59):
for my my girlfriend at the time. And you know,
things don't work out, I try to, you know, get
back to it. Things are gonna work out again, and
you know, so that's like one thing I want to
do is become a behavioral therapists, you know. And that's
a that's a long world ahead, that's many many years
of work, you know. And and the other thing I mean,
(25:23):
you know, is I was actually thinking about like what
is it that I ultimately want and and I thought
to myself, like, you know, if I have a studio
apartment in a relatively safe area, and I have my
behavioral therapy, you know, I'm a behavioral therapist. I have
(25:45):
my degree and I'm seeing a few clients. I have
a ten year old Corolla. Then, and you know, I'm
able to live and eat comfortably and not wake up
to like, you know, three dollars and twenty three cents
in my bank account. I'm like, you know, I'm going
to be perfectly happy. I know I would be happy
with that situation. I don't need, you know, I don't
(26:06):
I know, I don't need the fastest car and the
biggest house to be happy, right, But that kind of
kind of goes into like the you know, and then
and then I started thinking, Okay, I would be happy
with that, but what if I had a partner? Would
she be happy with that? And you know, is my
(26:31):
lack of desire for things themming from the fact that
I don't want to quote unquote participate in the capitalist
machine and so detach myself from material desires. So is it?
Uh huh?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
So if if you had a partner, right or like
in your in your so you know, we talked about
like love being acceptance, right, like if you could could
you But like we talked about love love is acceptance.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But it's good to have a few rules.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Is that one of your rules that she she can,
she has to join you in your rejection of capitalism.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
No, no, well, you know, I actually that's a really
good question. So many people around me have drastically different views,
you know, like my best friend, you know, drastically different
views regarding religion, political ideology, economic ideology, et cetera. But
when I think about like my partner, and I love
(27:29):
all of them and I'm very close to them. But
when I think about my partner not sharing this, I
don't need my partner to think the same way exact
way I do about social you know, Marxist socialism. But
you know, yeah, that's that's tough. Yeah, I know, I don't.
(27:50):
I don't want her to live exactly the way I do.
If she wants to consume things and have the fastest car. Good,
I just wouldn't want her to feel bad that I'm
not that way, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
So it's like she she well, that makes perfect sense, right.
It's like she doesn't have to be this way, but
she does have to accept that I am this way.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah. And even if she accepted it, right, I think
to myself, like, oh God, I hope there's no resentment
in her heart. And she doesn't think that I'm lacking
ambition in me. You know, this guy is living in
a studio, partner with a ten year old Corolla. I
hope that's like somehow brew like resentment in her heart.
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I mean that's the fucking that's the fucking dance of it,
you know, that's the that's the that's the that's the
acceptance dance, you know, acceptance verse resentment versus. It's a
big fucking dance. It's a big, ever evolving puzzle.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And you know, it aside from like a potential future
partner and how she might view my ambition or lack
of right, it also made me think about like my
family that I love and they love me so much
and my whole Like how would they view me Like
this guy he's like, you know, fifty five years old
and he's still driving a shitty car. You know, like
(29:11):
he's still like you know, just you know, just he's
getting by. He's independent, but he's not like thriving. We
thought he'd do so much, you know, And it was
such a conflicting thought because but eventually I stopped thinking
about it and I was like, you know what, this
is not the way to go about this thought process.
I have to decide in myself, like, am I okay
(29:36):
with it? Right?
Speaker 6 (29:37):
Right?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
And I can't make up my mind about that. I
can't figure out if my lack of ambition or lack
of desire for material things is coming from some sort
of like spiritual anti capitalist angle and you know, in
my mind or but but but that I think that
I'm not capable of accomplishing those things because you know,
ooh oh.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Oh, that's fascinating, that's fascinating. That's that's very that's that's
kind of hilarious. Actually, that is kind of hilarious. It
is kind of hilarious to be like to be like, like,
you know, like you're you're picketing for fucking uh like whatever,
You're You're like, I'm anti capitalists, you know, fuck the system,
(30:20):
blah blah blah. And then in the back of your
mind you're like, what if I'm only doing this because
I think I would.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Like sucking have a good job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's extremely funny, and it's extremely funny, and it's quite
possible that that might be the case that you just like,
I mean, yeah, if you're like super anti capitalists and
you're super not materialistic, it's like maybe you're just like
I think I'm just like a little fucking I just
don't want to work that hard. But you okay. But
(30:54):
here's the thing from talking to you is that you're
not like you're not like, oh, I just want to
like jerk off all day and play video.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
I don't want to do anything.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You're just like I don't wanna look heusing pretty much everyone, yeah,
just wants to be able to I think it's a
universal goal that everyone just wants to not have to
worry about money. Everyone just wants to not have to
worry about like their own survival and just like do
(31:30):
whatever they want to fucking do. That's like, I think
that's literally everyone, you know, from like hyper capitalists whatever
the fuck people to hyper you know, anti capitalist people.
Everyone is like that. So I don't think that's like
a completely uncommon.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Way to be. And you have like desires.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
You want to be a fucking behavioral therapist, you want
to help people, you want to do stuff, but you
just don't care about It's okay to not care about
making that much money or like not care about having
a nice car or not care about like how you
present to other people in terms of your like material status.
But like if you don't care about fucking anything, then yeah,
(32:14):
you're gonna be depressed, you know, but you clearly care about.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Definitely, And uh, you know, like I'm it sucks because
like I am, like you know, surrounded by people who
are doing really well, right, Like everybody you know is
really successful, and everybody's like, uh, you know, well off,
and uh, you know, it's it's a lot about like,
(32:43):
you know, getting getting more comfortable with myself. I think,
you know, like I said, you know, it's been only
so recently that I'm you know, becoming more of a
confident person more uh you know, a lot of like
you know, you know, practicing a lot of self love
and all that other.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Well where's that?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Where is all that coming? Where is all that coming from?
That you feel like you're becoming a better, happier person.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
This time last year, I was actually uh ended up
in a psyche ward right voluntarily, right a year ago,
and you know, coming out of it, like it was
a terrible experience in this cype where it was it
was pretty awful, right and coming out of it. I
(33:32):
just felt really empty, like completely empty. And my my
mom and my sisters, they they needed a lot of
financial help. And you know, I worked like a minimum
a job and I was just like, you know, I
don't think I can do anything in life right now,
(33:53):
like zero things. I think the only thing I'm capable
of doing is like just going to lay down somewhere
and then never getting up again.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But the love that I have for my mom and
my sisters who have been so kind, loving and supportive,
I was like, no, Like, if there's one thing I
gotta do is I got to make sure I can't.
I gotta get this money to them. Right. So I
was like, I'm just gonna do one thing. I'm just
gonna do. I'm completely empty, I have no desire of anything.
(34:26):
I'm just gonna do one thing. I'm just gonna go
to work and do my fucking job and then give
them money, right Yeah. And from and then from that,
I felt like a sense of purpose and know I
was like, Okay, I'm I'm contributing something. I'm producing something
and then contributing something, I'm helping them. And then gradually
(34:50):
I was like you know what, you know, I was
I was like pretty pretty overweight and ended up losing
like fifty pounds and this whole process, and I was like,
you know what. One day, I was like, it's been
a month and a half of me going to work
consistently on time every day. Let me just try like
working out, you know. Yeah, I started working out. And
(35:12):
then a month and a half after that, I was like,
you know what, I'm going to work and working out.
Let me try and eat a little bit better. I
don't have to eat like shit all the time, right,
And then gradually, like I just kept adding one more
thing and one more thing. I was like, one day,
I was like, you know, let me start meditating, you know.
And I started meditating and that helped profoundly. I was like,
(35:33):
you know what, let me start meditating and journaling and
on and on and on. So I like woke up
and I was just like, holy shit, Like I feel
very content, you know, I feel very at peace.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, Like yeah, because you're doing stuff, You're not just
like floating around in an endless ocean of of every
of everything and nothing at once.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And you know I think, uh, you know,
like I don't I don't have like a you know,
I don't have my own like room to sleep in,
and shit, right, I've like spent like three hours at
the house during the weekdays. Uh, you know, and that's
just like come home after the working gym, shower and
go right to sleep. And you know, it was it's
(36:19):
you're being thirty one and not having any fucking privacy, right,
It's rough, man. But you know I I one day
I was just like feeling really down about it, you know,
after you know, there's like two months, three months after
the site where I was just like, holy shit, I'm broke.
I'm like sleeping on on the floor in a living room.
(36:41):
I don't have privacy. This fucking sucks, right. So I
started meditating and I was like, you know what, every
time I feel anxiety in my life, every time I
feel like some pressure, I always try and distract myself
from it. I'll always try to fucking run away. But
I'm just gonna sit here for ten minutes it and
I'm just gonna sit with this anxiety. I'm just gonna
(37:02):
sit with this feeling of like I just fucking sucks, right.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
You know It's so funny though, you know, it's what's
really funny about this is that it feels, is that
sitting with that feeling for ten minutes feels like an eternity.
And yet I have, like, I like escape, and yet
every fucking time mode escaping that feeling by browsing Reddit
for for an hour, it takes way more time.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Isn't that insane?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
It is everything that you do to escape the feeling
takes way more time than actually like addressing.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Its addressing it right right? No, absolutely, And you know
I mean that I've distracted myself in one hundred ways.
Reddit is one, you know, just ah, fuck, I feel anxiety,
let me just like, you know, smoke the weed real quick. Right.
I'm not saying smoking weed is bad whatever. I smoke
eat all the fucking time. But when you're feeling anxiety,
(38:02):
in order to deal with it, like self medicating shit, right,
that's another way to distract yourself from it. There's a
hundred other ways. But you know, as I was like
sitting there with that feeling, and you know, I just
took some deep breaths, you know, five minutes later, I
was like, whoa, I'm safe here, Like I'm safe here.
(38:23):
And then in a living room with that room, yeah,
in this house, I am safe. I was like, I
have a place to sleep, Okay, I can get rest
and I'm safe. And I was like, wait, I have
love of like my mother and my sisters here right,
and I like, damn near shutter tear. And I was like, yo,
(38:45):
of course, Like that doesn't mean that I shouldn't strive
for independence, as I desperately want to it and I'm
working on it. But in that moment, right, just sitting
that feeling, it did me wonders. And that's kind of
like my thing on like h like, even with like
the loneliness thing, right, every time that feeling comes up,
(39:08):
I don't like, I don't try to like run away
from like no, no, no, Like now, I know I got
to sit with it, you know what I mean, because
it has gifts to offer. It has so many gifts
to offer. You know, as long as you're kind to yourself,
you know, you treat yourself with love. These these feelings,
you know, they have so many gifts to offer, the
gifts of patience, the gifts of understanding, you know, the
(39:32):
gifts of feeling content.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
So I think that's like ultimately what like spark the.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Awakening, you know, you know, you know, you know, Mo,
You're You're really I I just everything we've been talking
about over the past forty minutes. I really I'm really
with you on you know. We It's just the thing
is like there's we like we need I think, and
I'm not going to put this in like political science terms.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
I'll put this in like.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Uh, maybe I'll maybe I'll put this in like self
love terms. In a sense, it's like I'm like, I
don't know the exact numbers, but I think the right
there's it's like a yin and yang. And I talked
about this a little bit on a couple episodes. Is
like I think, like for my I'll use this just
(40:22):
as an example, and but this is like kind of
a microcosm for a larger concept of like, uh, you know,
I accept my body as it is, uh, and I
and I you know, I love myself and you know,
I accept myself and whatnot. But also yeah, but you know,
also I shouldn't be such a fat piece of shit
(40:43):
all the time, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Like, there's those two those two ideas.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
I really just believe so deeply that they can coexist
because if you only believe, because if you if you're
too hard on, like if I went too hard on
like accepting myself exactly as I am, I would be
fucking miserable. I would be depressed. I would never get
out of my bed. I would be eating from the
(41:11):
seven to eleven ten thousand calories of candy every single day.
It would be miserb If that, like, that's full acceptance
right there, that's a hundred percent acceptance. I think, do
you need like fifty percent acceptance and then fifty percent
I'm gonna not be I'm gonna not eat candy and
stop being a.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Fat piece of shit.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
But if you're if you're if I'm one hundred percent,
like I'm a piece of shit, I suck, I'm you know,
I'm fat and asia if then that you're just anxious
and miserable all the time, you know, So you need
That's why we need. We need like I don't know
what it is?
Speaker 1 (41:48):
What is there? What's between capitalism and socialism? We need that? Like,
what's something we need that?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
We need those two things combined divided by two because
I really have been because here's another thing. Here's here's
two more idea, here's two conflicting ideas. Is I've really
genuinely intrinsically have sincerely been enjoying having this conversation with
you about you know, capitalism and uh uh you know.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Acceptance and let and all these things.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
And I'm also totally gonna put an ad break afterwards
so that I can make money. I'm going to do
both of those things.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Can we get how do.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
We combine these two things? There's something There's gotta be
something in the middle that is the perfect Yin and
yang way to live because you know, because right because
if it's all because we don't want like like like
a billion dollars is too much money, you know we're
gonna get.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I don't know what we're getting into.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
But like yeah, well, well, you know, in regards to
like you saying, you know, I accept myself completely, I
love myself completely, right, and you know, there's I think
there's like this whole thing going on in society right now,
and it's like stemming from these like upscale yoga studios
(43:16):
where people are like chilling over their crystals a lot,
and they're they're turning these like profound truths right on
how to be into something like really like overused in cliche.
You know, like this whole idea of like I love myself.
Speaker 6 (43:36):
Completely, right, there's just so much of like spirituality and
psychology that's turning into like pop spirituality psychology, right.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
And the way a lot of these like I don't know,
what do you want to call like influencers or you know,
self proclaimed yoga gurus, right, the way that they promote
these things the same exact thing you said, I love
myself fully. It's coupled with this like sense of there's
no like they don't take the responsibility to like break
(44:12):
that down a little bit further. They just promoted as that, right,
And it's I don't know, it's like kind of like
coupled with like a sense of consumption, and there's somewhere
it's kind of like attached to that, you know. And
and and I think that that's like the problem like
these when these just simple truths about life that everybody
(44:34):
pretty much knows, when they start to become cliche. It's
just like, you know, because I heard a lot of
this shit when I was like trying to I don't know,
you want to call it better myself, right, Like when
I heard first heard the word mindfulness, I kind of
like laughed at that idea. Right, I'm like, yo, what
is this like you know, yoga studio bullshit? You know, yeah,
(44:54):
because I associate that completely with like people like rubbing
on crystals, talking about like hippy dippy ship. But when
I looked into mindfulness, when I like read about it,
when I you know, when I read books from like
Don Miguel Reeve's Junior and donal Miguil Reeves, like I
was like, Oh, this is actually genuinely profound, This is
actually genuinely helpful. You know. I think a lot of
(45:17):
these things become so cliche, you know, they have a
sense of like pop culture attached to them, and I
think that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, I well, yeah, I agree with that too. I
don't like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I also don't like the kind of like overly flowery
presentation of mindfulness and self love because it's it makes it,
you know, it's like it's.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Like putting too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
It's just yeah, it's but it's it's it's it's helpful
stuff when you're actually get into it.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
I don't know, man, I everything you're saying makes a
lot of sense. Everything you're saying makes a lot of sense.
I'm trying to remind myself of a lot of these
concepts as well as I have my own personal existential crisises.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
You know.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
You know you said you feel two collars ago. I
believe it was I would like listening in and out,
you know, but one of the things you had said
was like you feel uh directionless?
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Right, Yeah, I do often feel directionless.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Sure, I would just I mean, if you feel comfortable,
I mean, you know, like expanding on that, like sharing
a bit about it. If you don't, that's completely fine,
you know, sure.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
I mean, yeah, fuck it, Sure, I mean, well, I
I like doing this podcast, you know, especially when I
get to have conversations like.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
These that I really enjoy.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Right, But you know, I'm and you know also like
I'm engaged right now, I'm like actually doing something in
this very moment talking to you. But like a lot
of the time, I feel I kind of let myself
go a little bit.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
I feel a little.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Unengaged, and I'm like, uh, you know, what should I
do to Like, I'm just trying to figure out like
what to do next, Like I think I always with
the Gecko thing, I was always like, well, what should
I do next with this? Like, because this is gonna
be like a you know, I guess the thing that
I can do something else with And right now where
I'm doing is I'm just like.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
I've decided that.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Sitting and trying to think about the direction that you
want your life to go in next is a little
stupid because your life doesn't move forward. Oh fuck, I
just knock something over on the table. Your life doesn't
move for your life doesn't move forward as a result
of you like thinking, like I mean, you think a
(48:06):
little bit, right, it's another yin yang thing, but like
you know, you think.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Too much, you go into a spiral.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
And so I'm just like, you know what, I'm just
gonna do things that I think are cool. Like I'm
I think by the time this episode airs, I'll be
walking through rural Japan with my boy Jason. I'm gonna
I'm doing an art gallery. I think that'll be cool.
So I'm just like, I'm just I'm in a let
(48:36):
me try shit, because you know, I built this audience
with this podcast and it's cool, and I'm like, well,
what else can I do? You know that would just
be fun or cool or interesting or exciting, because uh,
you know, I don't want to be stuck in the same.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Routine over like I.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Don't like And I'm also just I'm like, man, I'm
gonna be as I'm getting older, I'm realizing that all
the ages I thought I would never be, I'm going
to be like, like, if you told me at nineteen
that one day I would be twenty seven, I just.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Wouldn't believe you. And now I am that.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
And so now I'm having this existential crisis where I'm like, oh, no,
one day I'm going to be fifty six years old,
What the hell is my life gonna look like? Am
I gonna be wearing this gecko suit when I'm fifty
six years old? You know people do that, like people
like musicians or whatever, like you know people, you know,
I'm just like, what the hell is my life going
to look like? So I just gotta keep trying new,
(49:35):
different things that I think maybe could be cool or
interesting to try to find a new path for it.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Because I've tried to.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I've like thought of I've like, I've like journaled endlessly
about what I might wanna do with myself. But it's
just kind of and especially like with the you know, like,
how do I, you know, do more things in person
that I think would be cool, because you know, I
really feel like I enjoy being out in the real
(50:07):
world more than I do in the uh in the
computer world, and so I'm just.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Trying to figure out how to do that stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
And I've and I've and again you fall into the
trap of like, oh, I'm gonna journal until I come
up with the perfect idea of something to do. And
I don't think I think that's a bad strategy. So
I'm just kind of like, okay, let me my My
ultimate anecdote to my directionlessness has been okay, let me
just start like doing things that could potentially be interesting.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
And then now again, you know, on my we.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
Talked about the deathbed, and I'm like, look, when I'm
on my deathbed, I'm not going to regret having tried
these various things that might be cool or interesting to do.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
See that's my that's my little spiel.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
You know, there's two things you said. I think like
you like nailed on the head right, Like one thing,
I mean, I'll just coum it up with like you
know you said, uh pretty much. You know, uh, it's
not that motivation comes first and then you take action.
Right now, you you take action first, and then motivation
(51:11):
eventually comes, you know, yeah, yeah, you gotta do shit, right.
And the second thing you said is like, you know
you're journaling, journaling, journaling, kind of come up with the
perfect thing that that that's like a huge, you know, hurdle. Actually,
it's good to journal, it's great to journal, uh, but
like to think of like what is the optimal the
(51:33):
number one option in my life right now? The perfect option? Right,
I'm gonna wait until I come up with that and
then do that. Right, That's exactly That is a massive hurdle.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
It's exactly what I've been doing for years. It's it's yeah,
it's a massive hurdle. It's almost akin to like idealization
versus acceptance, right.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Right, right, yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, you know,
and you know they're just like this is one song
I listened to almost every single day, right, and there's
a line in it that I absolutely love. That helps
me out a lot, because you know, like I don't know,
like I'm working this job right now, that's like feels
(52:20):
I know it's not meaningless, and I definitely know that
deep down that it's not meaningless, right, But at times
when it does start to feel feel meaningless, right, I
always keep this like line in my mind, you know,
which is I got it translated from a different language
to English, which I think it would translate to. I
(52:41):
put two paper wings on my heart and watch it
float away where I thought it would go. It didn't.
My heart might be directionless, but it's not distracted, and
that helps me.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
But it's not distract I'm putting that on a I'm
getting that branded on my ass, yo.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
You know, And I've heard you know, I've seen a
lot of your clips, so much of that shit is hilarious, right,
But I've seen also seen the stuff like you're interview
with logic. I saw all of that, right, And you know,
I mean, I don't know you personally. You know, you
seem like a person with a good heart. If I
was to take a wild fucking guess, but who knows,
(53:31):
you might be just a dude dressed up as a
get go with green kite on his face, murdering people
in a basement already. But as far as I can tell,
right like, you seem like a pretty a person with
a good heart, right, with good intentions. You know that
alone you, I think, is like you should take a
little bit of comfort in that. Right, it's gonna, it's gonna,
(53:51):
it's gonna take you right right.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
I'm gonna. I'm trying my best. Man, I'm trying my best.
Oh man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
I'm trying my best to be Uh, I don't know,
I guess my well, my main motivations lately have just
been like to you know again, escape from despair. Yeah,
this has been my main motivation. You know sometimes I
(54:21):
think sometimes I think, you know, as funny as I think.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead? No, no, yeah, I forget
what what what? What? What were you going to say?
Speaker 3 (54:31):
And then you know, I I have to I have
to end this call sort of soon because I think
you've tricked me into being vulnerable. No not actually not
actually well, I mean a little bit actually, but it's okay,
it's it's okay, I accept it.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
What were you going to say this call?
Speaker 2 (54:51):
I know you're you're in Japan right now, right, I
don't want to take up too much of your time.
But have you heard of the movie called Perfect Days?
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Perfect Days? Oh? That's uh, yeah, I have heard of
that movie. I never watched it, though, I.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Think you might get something out of it if you
have the time to check it out. I think the
based on all the conversations that we just had right now,
if you get the time to check it out, and
I think it'd be super special while you check it
out in Japan as a Japanese Willee, you know, mm.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
Hmm okay, cool, maybe I'll watch it, might enjoy Yeah, yeah,
okay maybe, oh.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah, definitely. Well thanks, man, I really appreciate you talking
to me. I really appreciate you, you know, balancing ideas
off and such. This is actually this felts great. Like
I was sitting here and I was just about to meditate,
but I was like, you know what, let me see
if Lyle happens to cover. So this really put us
(55:50):
bile on my face. Man, I feel I feel really happy,
you know. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Thank you, Mo.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
I appreciate it, sincerely, very very good talking to you.
This feel I feel like today today the the Therapy
Gecko was was therapy.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
This is the.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
Therapy mode episode you Therapy geckoed the Therapy Gecko today,
So thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
When I when I when I officially become a therapist,
I'll see you as my first client.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Man, that would be uh. That sounds like a conflict
of interest, but I'm down. I'm game, all right.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Man, you have a good time in Japan, you know.
Thank you. I hope you go do your thing.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
Man, take it easy, thank you, thank you. Take it easy.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
Later on, Man, that was a nice phone call. I
really enjoyed talking to Mo.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
It it's you know, it's interesting. I went again.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
I went on a rant uh last episode about talking
about your problems, not really solving them, but it helps you.
It does help you think, like I mean again, and
it's a yin yang fucking thing. There's like fifty percent
thinking and fifty percent. I don't know what the exact
ratios are, but it's some math equation that's part thinking
(57:11):
and part taking actual action. And I think if you're
and I'm definitely a neurotic person, I'm definitely an overthinker,
and so I think, I h I think I think
too much. Is a spiral of thinking. But it is
good to kind of have a conversation like that that
gets you with another person.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
MO definitely described a lot of things that I have
cooking in my brain as well. And it's nice when
you get to talk to somebody like that because it
makes you feel like you're not crazy, you know, for
having you.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
You're actually you.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
What you may think is some kind of unique human
experience has actually been fucking observed and recorded by other
people who are not you, which is comforting sense. So yeah,
I appreciate uh MO for calling in, and do I
(58:09):
have anything else to say? I hope that conversation was beneficial
for the people of the computer to listen to. And
I'm a gecko and thank you guys for listening. Goes
on the line, taking your phone calls every night, demand
goes to ride.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
He's teaching you a loud in the memorial line, but
he's not really an expert.
Host
Lyle Drescher
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