February 10, 2023 • 47 mins
Do you need another water bottle? How about another pair of leggings?
If you’ve been seeing de-influencing videos on your social media feed telling you not to buy new stuff, this is the episode for you.
Bridget joins Sam and Anney at Stuff Mom Never Told You to dig into why de-influencing is all over our social media feeds and what it says about where we’re all at.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production
of My Heart Radio and Unbust Creative. I'm Bridget Todd,
and this is there Are No Girls on the Internet.
We are popping in again from hiatus to have a
much needed conversation all about de influencing. If you're on TikTok,
(00:25):
you've probably already seen content about de influencing, which is
pretty much exactly what it sounds like. We're influencing tries
to influence you to buy certain things. D influencing says,
wait a minute, actually, do you need to buy another
water bottle when you already have five in your cabinet.
I am fascinated by the phenomena that is de influencing,
(00:46):
and more importantly, what this de influencing trend says about
our current social and economic climate. So I joined my
friends Samantha and Annie over at the podcast stuff. Mom
never told you to dig into de influencing and why
we are seeing it all over our social media feeds,
So I hope you enjoy. I have a theory that,
(01:06):
especially during times that are like turbulent or uncertain, the
pandemic would definitely fit into this um. Many of us,
myself very very much included really turned to online shopping
for a quick serotonin boost or a quick you know
this is gonna feel good, or like I got into
this habit of enjoying the feeling of kind of giving
myself Christmas every day, like, oh, there's gonna be when
(01:28):
I come home, there's gonna be a present waiting for me,
you know, from past me. And so this is not
just my theory. I do have a little bit of
research to back it up. People really leaned into online
shopping during the pandemic. According to the most recent annual
retail Trade Survey release from the Census, e commerce sales
increased by two hundred and forty four point two billion
dollars or um the first year of the pandemic, rising
(01:53):
from five hundred and seventy one point to billion in
nine to eight hundred and fifteen point four billion. Uh.
And people again, myself, very shamefully included, uh, really relied
on online retailers, specifically like Amazon. Unsurprisingly, Amazon stock hit
a new all time high during and it's only now
(02:15):
like pretty recently starting to fall from that huge booth
during the beginning of the pandemic. And a quick disclaimer
here that like I just people need to say that. Obviously,
we're gon, we're gonna be talking about our online shopping habits,
but there are a whole bunch of folks who rely
on online shopping for very legitimate, real reasons. Folks with
disabilities or chronic illnesses, you know. For them, online shopping
(02:38):
can be a lifeline being a swamped parent or a
caregiver who can't always you know, pop out to the
store for one thing. It's also a reason why somebody
might really really lean on online shopping. I don't want
to make it seem like anybody who is pressing by
online is just leaning into bad habits that they should question. Um,
So I'm not talking about those folks. I'm really taught
(03:00):
talking about the quick purchase of things that you really
don't need or maybe even really don't want because an
algorithm on social media told you to do so. And
I want to talk about why the tide is maybe
sort of turning on this a little bit. Okay, Yeah,
I mean it has been. I have a friend who
loves Target, not a sponsor, but she loves like the
(03:22):
Target app, and like she will text me as if like, yeah,
Christmas has come early. The Target app has updated, and
I feel like this wasn't a thing during the pandemic,
and we've talked about it because it is clearly like
a emotional it's something she does when she's stressed, and
then like, I feel that during the pandemic, I have
(03:46):
seen that a lot more where people are like, I
need something that will make me feel better for a
little bit. Also, this is a great point that you
brought out, because I did. I hate it when people
are like judging folks for I don't know, getting groceries
delivered or whatever. And there's a lot of impact of that.
But for some people that's not like laziness, right. I mean,
(04:09):
we definitely relied on it during the pandemic as something
that when we didn't want to go out, we didn't
want to spread things. We were very concerned people who
were even compromised, and it was a resource that was
necessary that really did help try to maintain the spread.
And it's that that was the first time you really
understood why this could be beneficial. But yeah, that definitely
(04:33):
could be abused and I know this is a whole
different thing, and that's the whole conversation of like people
with disabilities have to rely on things like this, and
it's a service that that should have been happening previously. Absolutely,
we absolutely should not be like judging or shaming people
for whom they really rely on this for a lifeline.
And I think that's one of the reasons why it's
so important that the people who are you know, doing
(04:55):
the grocery delivery, who are the workers and the staff,
they should be treated well, they should be compensated well,
they should have protections like and people with disabilities should
not have to rely on like private some pretty exploitative
like grocery delivery apps like we like, everybody deserves better
and we shouldn't be judging anybody who is just trying
to live their life. Um. But I do think that
(05:17):
we are in a place where people who again myself included,
maybe got into some bad online shopping habits without really
hitting pause and really thinking about whether those habits, you know,
maybe got us through a tough time emotionally during but
maybe aren't really serving us so well or wallets so
(05:39):
well if you're me here right right. It's kind of
interesting because I think we've talked about this for I'm
a big fan of TikTok, I can get lost in
it for hours and hours at a time. I get
that so many things and like, yeah, it starts to
read me and I'm like, okay, stop that. Why are
you sitting at me? An add about this And it's
(06:01):
not necessarily an add but it's someone that I trust,
or say trust uh and quotes because it's someone that
I like and follow and they seem like good people
you never know, uh. And then they're like, oh, yeah,
these are my five Amazon fines and these are my
five Costco fines and I'm like, yes, you are correct.
I need those things. Have did I know that it existed? No?
(06:23):
But I absolutely need those things, and it's getting to
be more and more. The five Amazon stuff always gets me.
And I have this thing with like there's so many
creators on TikTok, which I'm also addicted to. Uh, so
I feel you on that, Sam, but like TikTok ers
who are all about you know, like, oh, here's like
here's what my really organized desk or workspace looks like
(06:45):
Like I clearly have some kind of emotional hang up
around the way that work gets done in my life,
and so I subsequently follow a lot of creators for
who mets their niche, and so they're like, here's what
my notion looks like, Here's what my dot journaling looks like.
You're is what my laptop or workstation looks like, and
that I clearly have some kind of a like hang
up about that internally, and so I watch a lot
(07:07):
of that, And so whenever they're like, my, you know,
go to my Amazon store front my five you know,
the five things that really helped me stay productive, I
know that I'm kind of vulnerable and prime to just
click by without even thinking about it because it speaks
to some sort of internal like the issue I have
where I'm like, I must think that, oh, the way
that work gets done in my life is not up
(07:29):
to par with the way that work gets done in
the lives of other creative people or something. And so
it's really I think part of it really is like
knowing your triggers and knowing knowing the the vulnerabilities that
you have that we're so likely to try to fill
by hitting by now or by buying a thing that
we really ultimately might not even need. And so you
(07:52):
know that if I had to give this this conversation
like a so what it's that we should really be
in a headspace of asking some questions when it feels
like the algorithm or the app or the platform is
the one in control and we are passive. I think
that what is really important is if we switch that
dynamic so that we, the human, the person who makes
(08:13):
the money and makes the decisions about how the money
gets spent, is the one in control and that we
are not, you know, at the behest of algorithms and
influencers who we don't even know, and you know, apps
and platforms, and so in service of that, I think
it kind of makes sense to kind of talk about
how we got here, like a little bit of a
(08:33):
look back on influencing and how how we got to
this point. Or maybe people are kind of starting to
ask a few questions about the role that social media
influencing has on our life. So if I had to
ask you, what do you think used to be the
main app on social media where a lot of influencing
was taking place, what would you say? Instagram? Instagram? Instagram.
(08:56):
It's absolutely Instagram. You know, back in the goals, the
era of Instagram, it looked good, it had a good layout,
it was easy to use, it was understandable. It was.
It was it was a different time, right, and so
I think like one it felt back then this one
I'm gonna say, like this is liketeen is when I
would kind of situate this. So it felt kind of
(09:19):
clear how one would get engagement. So if you were
on the if you were an influencer, if you were
on the influencer side of things, you probably had a
pretty clear sense of like what the algorithm was going
to reward. It rewarded images of faces, for instance, and
so the rules seemed pretty doable. You know, post every
day post natively from the Instagram app as opposed to
(09:40):
adding a picture later. Like it was pretty clear like
what you needed to do to to do well on Instagram.
Algorithmically speaking, I think that us, as the audience who
was consuming the content that influencers made on Instagram, we
also had a pretty good sense of what to expect.
You know, you were gonna get conventionally attractive women who
were giving you like life envy and making it seem like,
(10:02):
oh well, if you bought this specific item, your life
could be like mine, right, And like, obviously this is
like a curated, manufactured lie that could absolutely be harmful
to people who were consuming it um as researchers like
very clear, but I would argue that there was something
familiar to it, right, Like we understood what to expect
as an audience who was consuming the content of influencers.
(10:26):
But now here. There are two big things that are
happening that I believe have really shifted this Golden Instagram
age and thus shifted how folks are maybe feeling about influencers.
The first is that the social media landscape is really
really changing and really seeing some seismic shifts. We've seen
this play out in a couple of ways. One, people
(10:47):
just are not using Instagram like they were in the
golden era of you know, a new report in the
Atlantic that came out last month called Everyone Is Over
Instagram said that Instagram is slowly and steadily losing its
relevant specifically with young users, and like that's the user
base that any social media platform really needs to court,
like young people. You want young people to really be
(11:09):
using your platform for to feel like really relevant, right right.
And It's funny because I I am not on TikTok,
but I've noticed that Instagram is just like videos now
it's like to talk, which is a different thing. It's
a different thing. Um, but it is interesting to me.
I love I'm fascinated by kind of these like shifts.
(11:31):
Why do people like, like why are people into TikTok
over like Instagram? Why why is that happening? Um? But yeah,
I mean why why is it that Instagram has lost favor?
Why is it fading? That's a great question. I would
say one is just that, like when the rules become
less transparent or just less doable, I think people find
(11:54):
it less kind of worth it to post there, right,
And so I think that if the rules felt clear
in Tony four teen, today, it seems like every month
Instagram announces a new things are going to be prioritizing.
It used to be static images, then it's going to
be video. You know. It used to be like if
you posted once a day, that was enough. Then Instagram
put out guidance for creators that was like, oh, you
(12:15):
need to be making four reels a day. That's a
lot of content. It's just not possible. And so if
Instagram decides we're going to algorithmically reward people who follow,
this like difficult to follow and also difficult to understand
and constantly changing set of guidelines, and if you don't
follow those, we're not going to show your post to anybody,
(12:36):
even your friends, even the people who want to see
your posts. It just eventually starts to feel like, well,
what's the point, right, Like that's one of the reasons
why personally, like I've used Instagram less. It's because whatever
the guidance is they give to creators to try to
get more engagement on the platform, it's just too much.
Right Like I have at work, I don't. It's like,
Instagram is not my job. For some people, it is
their job, and so I can understand, you know, playing
(12:59):
the game a willle bit more, but it's not what
I do. I have do other things in my life.
And so if then I'm going to be kind of
I use this word very lightly, but like punished algorithmically
by having my content not shown to people, even people
who I know, even people who are my friends who
I know want to see that content. What is the point? Like?
Why why jump through those hoops if that's how you're
(13:20):
gonna gonna be treated on a platform, you know, right?
You know? And I was thinking as with Instagram when
we were talking about yes, there's all these reels and
the younger people are getting frustrated. They also changed the algorithm.
I know there was like a whole year long campaign
of people just asking can you see this post um,
And even for our posts at stuff mo, I've never
told you we are verified. We have our thirty thousand followers.
(13:42):
We rarely get more than four or five likes because
we don't post but every other day. And like when
you look up, how do you get you know, followers
or views. It's literally like you said the post four things,
but now it's adding post this, putting it on the reel,
put it on the like the videos, and you have
to do all three of those things. So you're literally
taking four post times three to put it on the
(14:03):
same site, and it doesn't sound like it's worth it anymore.
And then the suppression alone with the algorithm, why just
why exactly? And you have to basically be a one
person like studio, right because like you have to make
the post turn it into a real comments and it's
like you have a job, dude, Like you're a podcaster.
It's like your job is not doing Instagram. And I've
(14:24):
actually worked with like um social media managers, like professional
social media managers to help grow my account. And you know,
this was a few years ago, so I can't speak
to whether or not this is good advice now, So
don't try this thinking this is this is how you
grow Instagram now because I really don't know. But something
that she did is like, oh yeah, I just spend
a good amount of time commenting on content of accounts
(14:47):
that are similar to you in what they post. And
so you know, she would spend like two hours a
day this being like great posts. Yeah, I love this,
and like, who has time for that? Right? Like I
was doing a little experiment to see if it woul help,
and it actually did help grow my account. But like,
am I going to sit there and do that? Absolutely not, right, Like,
and so I can see why people are just like, yeah,
(15:09):
I'm not gonna do that. Don't need that. And I
think any I think that you mentioned that, um, when
you go to Instagram now, what you've kind of see
is a lot of reels that are really TikTok's that
you saw on TikTok if you have that platform, you know,
a week ago, and so it kind of I think separately,
I think that Instagram is really confused about what role
(15:32):
they are trying to play in our lives and in
our social media diets. I don't think that they know.
I think that like one day it will be images,
one day it'll be real. It's like not clear and
it's so funny because, um, someone else who is really
impressed about this are the Kardashians. Folks might recall that
over the summer, um, Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian both
posted an image saying, make Instagram Instagram again. Stop trying
(15:55):
to be TikTok. I just want to see cute photos
of my friends. And this is really kind of not
surprising to me because the Kardashians are so good at
being Instagram friendly or the friendly for the version of
Instagram that Instagram used to be, right, Like, they're all beautiful,
they all take beautiful pictures. They're all really good at
looking kind of Instagram perfect and polished. TikTok takes it
(16:18):
in a completely different skill set. You kind of have
to be funny or engaging, or you know, you have
to have something that's gonna make Like, just looking good
on TikTok is not enough. You have to bring something else.
And no shade to the Kardashians that is not my
skill set either, So I'm not I'm not trying to
put them down or anything. And so what's interesting is
that after the Kardashians said, like, oh, go back to
(16:40):
cute pictures of my friends, the head of Instagram responded
over the summer saying that Instagram they just needed to
focus on video and reels to survive and grow as
a platform. Um. But then just last week he posted
that you know that was the wrong move. He did
a complete about face, and he said that Instagram quote
over folk is on video last year, and so now
(17:02):
the platform is going back to balancing the amount of
photos and video shown to users. UM. In one example
that he gave, you said that Instagram will consider how
often a person likes some comments on photos versus videos
to determine which content will appear first in their feeds.
And so this really tells me they're like, they don't
know what they're doing. They're not sure of their strategy.
You know, it's not clear to them what they're trying
(17:23):
to be. And I think it's no wonder how people
are like, yeah, I'll let y'all figure it out. And
while you'll figure it out, I'm gonna be on TikTok
or or just be getting rid of social media altogether.
(17:45):
You know, I think it's kind of funny because I
think of this analogy. When you think of Instagram, I
think of the elder millennials as me. Don't don't. I
don't want to hear it, because I've been between the
xers and the millennials. I came at the right of
the cup. But like elder millennials trying to be cool
and hip and talk to those gen z ears who
(18:06):
would be the TikTok goods and all, that's what's happening.
What we see is like Instagram trying to be really
cool and really relevant. It's just kind of missing the
mark because we are no longer at that point in life.
And I find it funny because that's all I can
think of TikTok versus Instagram. I'm trying to become TikTok,
and TikTok's like I don't care about you, so nothing
(18:27):
is like more. I mean, I love I love this
contact because I think that like gen z younger folks,
I like, I love it when they come for us
elder millennials. Um, sometimes they'll be like things that millennials
really need to stop doing on Instagram, and they I'm
always like yes, drag me like like no more boomerang,
you can fix us, thank you, and you know the
(18:48):
other part of that. And again, I think this has
a lot to do with the generational changes, and again
I love it is like, yeah, Instagram really gave birth to,
as we said, influencers and selling us things and selling
us ideas and selling us things that we will never
be and try to what what we try to still attain,
which is the Kardashians. You know, they were really big
(19:08):
force uh in that. But with TikTok, it seems like
the younger generations that was really into it was like,
we're tired of celebrities. We want a chance to see
regular people who have a lot of good ideas and content.
And the TikTok is for the people. Because I know
there's been a lot of pushback as celebrities are not
jumping on TikTok, but people, I stop it, this is
(19:29):
not for you. Oh my god, I could talk about
this for hours. This is something I find so fascinating.
So I think because TikTok is a younger platform, they
just have a completely different relationship with digital life than
like them then millennials have and so I absolutely agree
with you that, especially for younger folks who are spending
time on TikTok, and TikTok is the is the fastest
(19:49):
growing social media app out there right now. I think
the audience is very different from the curated Instagram audience
and that they do want more real stuff, but they
want authenticity, not that like fake like oh my house
is so messy, authenticity like really authenticity, and they are vocal,
like they will call you out. There was a whole
(20:10):
thing with um. I think it was Bethanie Frankel going
on TikTok and her transition to TikTok wasn't very smooth,
and I think part of it is because like celebrities
maybe are used to being able to say certain things
and get everybody fawning all over them on Instagram or
on other social media platforms, and they're not finding that
reception on TikTok. Like TikTok is the app for like
(20:32):
regular people to talk, it's not for celebrities to like
hawk their perfect lives. And there's actually a influencer right now,
like a big influencer michaela Nigeria. I apologize I been
saying her last name wrong, but um, it's in very
hot water for trying to do a mascara brand like
sponsored content while allegedly wearing false lashes. And so obviously
(20:55):
you can't be like this. A mascara is so great.
Look look at the way it should transform my lad
to where it's like, I think those are freak flashes, um,
And so people are calling this person out because that
doesn't fly there, right, And so I think that, like,
you're exactly right, Sam, that the audience that is big
on TikTok is a lot more vocal, a lot more savvy,
(21:15):
and they will call you out if they feel like
they're being pushed something that's just like like a fantasy
that's not real. Maybe on on Instagram you might get
away with that, but not on TikTok. Well, I will
say the thing about TikTok is there are TikTok sluts
that that is their intent and entire content is like
to call out the falsehood of other content. It is
(21:38):
the rabbit holes I have gone down where I'm like,
I don't even know this person. I have never even
seen them on TikTok, but apparently they're faking having a
scar to get clouts. I need to reach a thousand
comments and spend six hours of my time on this
despite only having one one life to live on this
green nurse. And I know what you're talking about, and
(21:58):
I hate that. I know what you're talking about out
because I did the dance same thing. What is this
that to do with it? Like, it has nothing to
do with me. This isn't even somebody who I follow
or I'm invested in, like you get you're like people
the evidence that people compile. It's like, I'm fascinated if
if anything ever happens to me. I guess I shouldn't
say that, but like the way that like TikTok's flues
(22:20):
are able to like investigate the nitty gritty, that really
doesn't matter. My hats are off to them. The petty.
The petty is real, and if it's all in good fun,
there's definitely seriousness that we definitely talked about before. But
the pettiness is real. And when you get invested in,
you're just like, well, well well, and you can't help
but be the voyor and you feel a little guilty.
(22:40):
I will say that, um, but you can't put one
over on them. And it continues to baffle me because
as as you're talking about TikTok is one of the
younger ones, the way that it has grown exponentially, I'm like,
is it going to be able to keep up with
that demand? Yeah, that's such a great question. I actually
(23:03):
this is a this is a a fuego take. So
you know, whatever is my opinion. I think that we
are going to see government legislation of TikTok in This
is like my big tech prediction. I think that it's
growing so much. I think there are national security questions.
(23:24):
I guess I'll just put it that way. I think
that you know, there have been there is like rarer
bipartisan support for doing something about TikTok. It's already been
banned on I think federal government devices can't have TikTok
on them. A handful of states have banned having TikTok
on state run devices, and that number is growing. Universities
(23:45):
are the same at numbers growing of universities that have
banned TikTok from state state owned devices. I think that
we are seeing enough traction in government in a in
a bipartisan way and also civil society and institutions that
I do think that like something is going to happen
or be done to combat TikTok's growth, because their growth
has just been like if folks want to look it up,
(24:07):
like it is wild, how many users it is gaining.
It's just it's just like exploding. One of the things
that I think about TikTok becoming kind of the new
place where people are spending their time online on social media. Um,
why that might be fueling a kind of backlash against
influencing is that this moves a lot faster than Instagram,
which fuels what they call micro trends. And so if
(24:29):
a trend is something that it's in style for a
little bit of time, a micro trend is something that
becomes in style or in vogue very quickly and then
burns out just as quickly. Something can be iconic and
very popular one month, and by the end of the
month people are talking about it being out of style.
A great example is like, um, this clothing brand I
(24:49):
really doubled down on and like went for a hard
house of sunny. They make this like very bright colored
clothing that really pops on social media, and I was like,
oh my god, and I bought like a sweater and
address and this and that. Maybe a month later people
were like, oh, would already looks so dated. And so
if you think about what is sort of in style,
how quickly it becomes sort of pass I think that
TikTok becoming a place where people spend more of their
(25:12):
digital time online is one of the reasons why trends
are kind of flaming out so quickly, and so if
you're an influencer, you know that's just a lot having
to like it is exhausting to be in even this
in the audience, to be told you need to buy
a new thing over and over and over again, and
in in January, it's this water bottle. In February that
(25:34):
water bottles out. Now it's this water bottle. It's it's
no wonder that people can't really keep up with that
because it's too fast. That's so funny. I feel like
I'm the like millennial person that comes in like, oh,
I finally got this thing, and they're like, that's three
years ago, what are you doing. It does feel like
it moves very very quickly, and actually an interesting implication
(25:55):
of this kind of thing is like, because I also
do a food podcast, is the thing like the feta pasta,
like feta cheese, like couldn't you couldn't find it anywhere,
And it was because of TikTok. And then a month
later everyone was like, what are you talking about? But
for that one month, nobody could find feta cheese. Yeah,
I see it with food. It's so interesting when it
(26:17):
happens with food because it does correlate with when you
go to the grocery store. It's just like not there. Um,
I've heard that tinned fish is like the new thing
right now, which if you don't want to talk about
like our economic climate, the fact that like tinned fish
that go just having our tinned fish date that tells
me something. I'm like, oh, people are thinking about our
economic climate in some perhaps like less than cheery outlook,
(26:41):
which brings us to what we've been talking about. Is
another piece of this is like like like what I
was saying with myself my friends, is this anxiety of
this like maybe if I buy this thing, I'll feel better,
like maybe this will make things better. And that's not
unique absolutely, And so the second thing that we're seeing
(27:03):
that's really I think shaping all this is this kind
of feeling of like economic unease and uncertainty that is
impacting the way that people are responding to influencing. I
think that a lot of folks are concerned about an
economic downturn. We're seeing like layoffs and a lot of
sectors like tech and media. I don't I think people
are perhaps wary about spending money on things that they
(27:24):
see online and maybe doing it in a different way
than maybe once we're in And I think that, like
more importantly, I think that as we go into times
that are uncertain, economically uncertain, economically unstable, people don't really
want to open up their phone and see people living
the high life, right Like, it just doesn't feel good
(27:45):
to be worried about inflation, worried about food being on
the shelves, worried about how you're gonna make rent, if
you're gonna be laid off, and open your phone and
see an influencer trying to sell you that their life
is perfect and that your life can be perfect too
if you buy this thing that you don't need, don't
have money for, and don't even really want. I think
that people are just not feeling that vibe anymore. I
(28:07):
think there was a time where that had a time
and a place and it felt very familiar. I think
right now we're not loving it. Yeah, yeah, it just
feels kind of like out of touch. And and and you
brought up the Kardashians earlier, and they're big, like they've
even been in the news recently for like lawsuits, but
they were really big about this of like selling you
a thing. It just felt like they weren't kind of
(28:30):
reading the room. I guess, like totally. I remember they
and I talked about this in an episode of There
Are No Girls on the Internet, my own podcast Around
the Holidays. I remember, I think it was last year
or the year before, they posted their Easter spread, and
it was like the most opulent thing, like even for
Kardashian standards, the most opulent thing you've ever seen. It
(28:53):
was like life like life size Teddy Bears, full size,
like five full size gumball machine means, was like pink
gum in them for bicycles. It was like the most
elaborate and lavish opulent spread, even by Kardashian standards, that
I have seen. And the response was not like, Wow,
how cool for them. The response was over consume much like,
(29:16):
and I think that that really shows us that we
are in a place where when they posted that, they
probably thought everyone was gonna love it, but in reality,
most people were like, this is a little opulent, seems
a little tacky, seems a lot of a little out
of touch for one holiday, Like, at what point do
we start asking questions about the value of over consumption
and whether or not that's a value that is like
inherently good or healthy or like serving us in our lives, right,
(29:41):
And I mean Instagram and that that's kind of thing,
is like you're presenting this really curated version of your life,
um and then kind of at least in my case.
And I think there's been some says about this, but
like feeling bad because you'd see other people's pictures are
like their life is way better than mine. But also,
(30:03):
and I could be wrong about this, but I feel
like a lot of the influencers I saw on Instagram
were women, Like a lot of the people who were like, Hey,
you need to buy this thing, And maybe that's just
an algorithm for me, but it's not just you. I
think this is inherently gendered. The lion share of influencers
are women and girls. According to a study by the
(30:24):
influencer marketing agency Isaiah, women accounted for more than of
sponsorships made as influencers. But I should know if that,
because this is America. There is also an influencer pay gap.
Even though there are more like women make up the
bulk of influencing, they're still paid less than men for influencing,
which is a real head scratcher. But yeah, I think
(30:45):
it's women and girls who are being sold all of
this and they're not. It's we're not. It's being sold products.
We are being sold products as a proxy for like
getting your life together, or like succeeding being a woman,
or or I think that we're being sold on the
idea that you can consume your way into the kind
of life that you want. And I think that capitalism
(31:05):
and consumption as a means of perpetuating gender roles has
always been a thing. And I think right now, I
think a lot of women are just exhausted. We have
been burdened with so much, we have had our rights,
just like, it's not a very rosy time to be
a woman. What I'm saying, I don't want. I feel
like if I go into it, I'll be all here
all day. But you know, I think that a lot
(31:27):
of women are just like, on top of everything else
that we have to shoulder. I don't have the emotional
bandwidth two buy into this idea that tells me that
I have to buy this product on Instagram to be
a more complete woman. You know, I think more women
are calling bs on this idea, especially younger women, right.
I will say so immediately after the New Year. The
(31:48):
first thing and what are the first and I think
you were superviral. Is this girl laying down in bed
in TikTok and saying you don't need this. Here are
the five products you don't need and then goes down
is of all the trends and that this is about you.
You're not going to use this, You're not gonna ever
see it again, don't buy it. You're only good Like
that was the first video I saw. It was like,
(32:08):
oh what is this? And the next one was the
girl who was like, hey, I have a bought every
single expensive hair product. These are both in Here are
the products you should go to go to CVS. This
is much better. Don't buy those expensive things. And I
was like, what is happening. Yeah, so that is a
great example of the influencing which is all over TikTok
right now. So what is the influencing, Well, basically, again,
(32:30):
it's exactly what it sounds like. Rather than trying to
convince you to buy something, it's telling you you don't
actually need to buy this. So creators will be telling
you like, you don't need another water bottle if you're me,
you don't need another notebook that you you know, are
not gonna use when you already have like twenty on yourself,
or telling you how different TikTok or social media famous
products are actually not worth the money, not worth it.
(32:52):
According to the newsletter Glossy, the hashtag de influencing has
twenty one point four million views and has increased in
popularity even in just the last week. They spoke to
a creator who goes by L Gray or Basic of course,
who pointed to the impact of the economy on consumer
spending and the ability or lack thereof to buy based
on influencer recommendations as one of the reasons why de
(33:14):
influencing is becoming so popular. L says, in the last
twelve months, we've seen an extreme slowdown in the global economy.
As we enter into a recession, people are starting to
feel the effects and are taking a closer look at
their spending and consumption. Many people have gotten fed up
with the constant barrage of micro trends and must have items,
especially as they take a closer look at their bank accounts.
(33:34):
And so, you know, I think that this creator is
probably onto something that you know, we started this conversation
today talking about the things that we and again myself
very guilty of this uh over consumed online in I
think that de influencing is a response to some of
these over consumption habits that a lot of us just
(33:55):
sort of picked up during the pandemic and like just
kept having in our life. And now we're like, wait
a minute, is this actually a good idea? Is it
actually good that I, you know, we'll just click by
now and get something without really thinking about if I
need it, if I want it, Like, is that something
I actually truly need? Probably not, I will say, I
(34:28):
feel like and maybe it's just the side of TikTok
I'm on because we know it is very curated. These
the influencers who are trying to help you save money
and tell you what it is and tell you what's working,
what's not working. It's almost the way of women supporting women,
or you know, the marginalized supporting the marginalized, Like you're
the one, I know this is aimed towards you. Typically
women are typically you know, those who are in like
really harsh places. So I'm going to help you and
(34:50):
tell you not to do this. And on top of that,
the same conversation about the gen z ears again I'm
still in all of them, is that they are all
about calling out the bs. So when they see an
influencers saying this is amazing, and then they start realizing
this person is all about the money. This person is
not genuinely doing things, kind of like the mascara, We're
going to call you out until you don't do this
(35:12):
again as a way to protect other consumers slash other women.
I love how you put that. I absolutely have seen
a million times that women and other marginalized people telling
each other the truth and leveling with each other and
breaking down for each other. That is more powerful than
a million dollar pr AT campaign, than a million well
(35:34):
paid like you know, pr agents working over time. Nothing
is more powerful than women sharing their truths with each other,
and that can like, yeah, it doesn't, It doesn't matter
what like expensive marketing firm that you've that you've contracted.
Women sharing each other's truths with each other will always
be more powerful. Absolutely, yeah. And I find it interesting
(35:56):
because it's those kind of like that same girl I
was talking about who was saying don't buy does, and
she's now gone viral. Being honest, being truthful and trying
to protect others has really built her audience, and she's
become an influencer slash the influencer and is now getting
credibility and may be able to go viral enough to
like start having her own outlets. Whether it is who knows.
(36:17):
I know several people from TikTok as well as YouTube,
but that's the whole thing. Have shows, get shows, get
brand deals, and get specific deals that are genuinely good
because they are honest, and it's building them up. So
it's interesting to see how this the opposite of that
has grown them. That makes sense. It makes so much
(36:37):
sense that I've been I think it's I think it
marks a shift, and I think it's good. I think
that like we should question why the powers that be
are so quick to reward people who make their entire
thing about stuff that you should buy over consumption. We
could be instead building up honest platforms and platforms that
(36:59):
say like, well, you really aren't going to use this,
or you really don't need this. Like I love watching
on TikTok people who do closet clean out and they're like,
these are the top five things I like remove from
people's closets, or like the top ten things people don't
actually wear, because it might actually help create that shift
of being a little bit more in tuned and intentional
(37:20):
about what you buy. And I think that's really important.
I mean, like, it has so many implications, not you know,
not the least of which is the environmental impact of Like,
you know, I had a little bit of a of
a fast fashion thing myself, like I would buy from
this brand she she in, where you know, it's like
it's so it's so cheap, but it like it looks
it looks like the fancier stuff, but it's so cheap.
(37:42):
Then it's like, well, you're like, actually it is one
of the biggest offenders a fast fashion that ends up
you know, polluting our world. And it's like I don't
want to be I don't. I don't want, like, I
don't want my unexamined emotional need to translate to a
worst world for the next generation to come. And so
(38:03):
I really kind of solve the like need for me
to do a little bit of thinking and unpacking and
intention around my own consumption habits and what I was
trying to fill by buying things and the longer term
consequences for generations to come. I know that sounds like
a lot, but like you're gonna start somewhere right, No,
it is absolutely goes hand in hand again with the
(38:24):
new creators that the people who are getting big on
TikTok are those who are like, hey, you're doing these
things and it could be of course, this is a
whole different conversation about diagnosing and assuming everybody's one thing
or another, but it does call call out to be like, hey,
you have this reaction which could be costing you money,
costing your time because of a trauma, so you're focusing
(38:45):
on the wrong thing. Like I do love seeing them
correlate actual action to internalized trauma or uh maybe reasoning
however you want to say it. But it is encouraging
to see that there's more correlations that these influencers slash
TikTok people are talking about out loud, So you start
considering the actual basis of trying consuming too much or
(39:08):
consuming way too fast, or not thinking about it. It's
both encouraging and kind of scary to see how quickly
this can flip, because we really did go from a
generation of we have to be perfect, we have to
look perfect, we have to be the Kardashians, uh, white
girl version of what I mean by that is the
skinny skinny version you you know, yeah, I know what
(39:30):
I'm talking about um too. But to like coming into
loving your body, do things that are healthy for you,
do things that make you happy, do things that bring
you joy, and then going into and that comes to
having peace of mind. And this is how you do it.
And so it's kind of interesting to see how we
flip there. But we are at this cusp of like
(39:51):
it could flip again, and is it going to be
healthy or unhealthy? I think again, TikTok is being is
encouraging to me to see the creators that I'm seeing.
That's such a good point and I think, you know,
the bottom line of this is that you cannot consume
yourself into feeling like a complete version of yourself to
(40:12):
feeling whole. You know, I talked earlier about how I
get really kind of stuck on these like people who
are full time creatives or full time creative professionals and
and the way that that work gets done in their lives,
and how it looks so good to me. It looks
like they're very together, like they've got lists, they look
very organized and very cozy and very peaceful. And that
(40:32):
clearly that is speaking that some kind of perception that
I have internally that I am not enough. There's something
I can buy that it's going to make me feel enough.
I have to just get there through self work, through growth,
through introspection. I I completely understand the need to like
just hit by now and like if I get everything
that this woman has in her house, maybe I'll get it,
(40:52):
but I won't. You can't consume your way into I guess,
feel good about what you've got, feeling good about who
you are, you know, feeling good at like feeling like
yourself and feeling like that's enough. There's just not a
product that's going to do that. It's gonna take It's
gonna take work, and so I think, you know that's
(41:13):
it's definitely easier to just buy a thing, and I,
boy do I keep trying, but I know I just
got some tease that I went viral. We won't talk
about that more. Oh, it's like this is I don't
want this to sound judging, because like who amongst us right,
like I am, we're all works on progress. But but
if you were interested in trying to unwork, unpack some
(41:36):
of this, like de influence yourself, first, I should say, like,
I'm not a professional. So if you if you are
someone listening and you think that you really might have
a true issue with like buying things and shopping that
you might need to talk to somebody about, you should
do that. Talk to a professional if you feel like
your issue rises beyond you know what we're talking about here.
But a couple of tips that might help folks de
influence themselves. My favorite sleeper tip is that if you
(41:59):
have an I phone or I think I think it
works on injury to um using your phone in gray scale.
My phone is in gray scale probably of the time.
You can go into your accessibility settings on your iPhone
and change your your phone to gray scale, and I
have it so that the little button on the side,
the power button, if I hit that three times, it
flips from gray scale to color. So if somebody sends
(42:21):
me a picture where it's like, oh, I need to
see this in color to get the context, I can easily,
you know, flip it to color, flip it back. When
I tell you that, it makes things on your phone
looks so much less enticing and less appealing. And I
can absolutely feel it when I'm looking at my phone
and color. I can feel the little synapses and neurons
(42:43):
going off in my brain that tell me by this,
click that, look at that, read that, And it makes
the experience of using social media more boring, but in
a good way. I'm just I feel a lot more
in control when all of these bright colors that are
literally designed by people who make lots and lots of
(43:04):
money to to like, you know, fire things in your
brain and to get you to be as as as
tuned in and it's plugged in as you can. And
so I'm a big fan of like trying to to
throw our wrench in this techno hacking that messes with
all of our brains. So trying to put your phone
in gray scale. I love it. Another one is that
(43:25):
when you feel that twitch in your brain that says
I need this, don't click by right away, right like,
ask yourself, does this fill a legitimate need in my life?
If you're Samantha's partner? Is it just another vessel with
which to drink coffee or liquids? That do? I already
have a vessel or several vessels that make that need.
(43:48):
I throw it out and then like, notice your emotions,
like when you feel influenced, really asked, like, do I
feel the need to buy this because it is serving
an emotional need or feeling an emotional hole that I have?
And what's that about? You can really just start small,
just asking isn't that interesting? Be curious about the emotions
that are sparked for you when you're using social media.
(44:11):
My therapist always says that judgment and curiosity cannot coexist.
And so rather than being like, oh, you just are
so bad with the money, you just throw money away,
You just cannot stop shopping online. That's judgment. And so
when you're judging the way that you feel, when you're
judging your emotions, you can't be curious about them. Curiosity
is how we get to some place better and like
(44:32):
move forward, and then lastly, learn to love what you
already have. You know, I spent so long chasing micro
trends and quick hit trends that when I look at
my closet, there are things in there that I love
that I don't even really know where they are. I
don't even have access to them or see them because
my closet is so full of the stuff that I
bought that I didn't even really think about, and so
(44:54):
it makes it harder for me to love the things
that I actually do have that feel good and so
the things that I really do value in life. Because
there are plenty of things that I bought where I'm like,
oh that was I do not regret that choice. That
was a goodbye. It makes it harder to really appreciate
the things that are good byes and have them stand
out when you just buy so much crap that you
don't even really need right organized, because you will find
(45:16):
that thing you love that you forgot about for two.
If you do that, you shop your closet exactly. Yes,
during the pandemic, I remember there were a couple of
times where I was like I really really want this thing,
and then I would look through my closet. I already
have that thing. Yes, I can't tell you how many
(45:37):
times it's happened. Where'm like, I'm like doing reruns, Like
I like, I'm already in reruns on my closet, like
what is this? And then like, if you're me anyway,
I wear like the same T shirt like for an
entire week. So yeah, buying new clothes just to wear
your uniform every day? Like what are we doing? Right? Yes? Well,
(45:58):
thank you as always for it for bringing this topic
to us. It was very informative for me. I've not
heard of this. This is amazing. I love it. I
love it. I love it. Yes, where can the good
listeners find you? Well, you can always tune into my
podcast on this very same network. There are no girls
on the internet. You can follow me on Instagram at
Bridget Brian d C. I will not influence you. I
(46:21):
can't promise that I will never, but you know, like
we gotta eat. No, I'm just kidding. On Twitter at
Bridget Murray I love it. Yes, go go check that
us out if you haven't already, listeners, thank you again
Bridget for coming. We love having you, can't wait to
have you again. Yes, yes uh. And the listeners I
(46:41):
who would like to contact us, you can or email.
It's definitely a mom Stuff that I Hurt Me dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at moms to podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok what that stuff Mom Never
told You? Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
Thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff When
Never Told You. Protection by Heart Radio. For more podcast
my Heart Radio, you can check out the radio app
Apple Podcast, where you listen to your favorite shops m
There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production
of My Heart Radio and Unbust Creative. I'm Bridget Todd,
and this is there Are No Girls on the Internet.
We are popping in again from hiatus to have a
much needed conversation all about de influencing. If you're on TikTok,
(00:25):
you've probably already seen content about de influencing, which is
pretty much exactly what it sounds like. We're influencing tries
to influence you to buy certain things. D influencing says,
wait a minute, actually, do you need to buy another
water bottle when you already have five in your cabinet.
I am fascinated by the phenomena that is de influencing,
(00:46):
and more importantly, what this de influencing trend says about
our current social and economic climate. So I joined my
friends Samantha and Annie over at the podcast stuff. Mom
never told you to dig into de influencing and why
we are seeing it all over our social media feeds,
So I hope you enjoy. I have a theory that,
(01:06):
especially during times that are like turbulent or uncertain, the
pandemic would definitely fit into this um. Many of us,
myself very very much included really turned to online shopping
for a quick serotonin boost or a quick you know
this is gonna feel good, or like I got into
this habit of enjoying the feeling of kind of giving
myself Christmas every day, like, oh, there's gonna be when
(01:28):
I come home, there's gonna be a present waiting for me,
you know, from past me. And so this is not
just my theory. I do have a little bit of
research to back it up. People really leaned into online
shopping during the pandemic. According to the most recent annual
retail Trade Survey release from the Census, e commerce sales
increased by two hundred and forty four point two billion
dollars or um the first year of the pandemic, rising
(01:53):
from five hundred and seventy one point to billion in
nine to eight hundred and fifteen point four billion. Uh.
And people again, myself, very shamefully included, uh, really relied
on online retailers, specifically like Amazon. Unsurprisingly, Amazon stock hit
a new all time high during and it's only now
(02:15):
like pretty recently starting to fall from that huge booth
during the beginning of the pandemic. And a quick disclaimer
here that like I just people need to say that. Obviously,
we're gon, we're gonna be talking about our online shopping habits,
but there are a whole bunch of folks who rely
on online shopping for very legitimate, real reasons. Folks with
disabilities or chronic illnesses, you know. For them, online shopping
(02:38):
can be a lifeline being a swamped parent or a
caregiver who can't always you know, pop out to the
store for one thing. It's also a reason why somebody
might really really lean on online shopping. I don't want
to make it seem like anybody who is pressing by
online is just leaning into bad habits that they should question. Um,
So I'm not talking about those folks. I'm really taught
(03:00):
talking about the quick purchase of things that you really
don't need or maybe even really don't want because an
algorithm on social media told you to do so. And
I want to talk about why the tide is maybe
sort of turning on this a little bit. Okay, Yeah,
I mean it has been. I have a friend who
loves Target, not a sponsor, but she loves like the
(03:22):
Target app, and like she will text me as if like, yeah,
Christmas has come early. The Target app has updated, and
I feel like this wasn't a thing during the pandemic,
and we've talked about it because it is clearly like
a emotional it's something she does when she's stressed, and
then like, I feel that during the pandemic, I have
(03:46):
seen that a lot more where people are like, I
need something that will make me feel better for a
little bit. Also, this is a great point that you
brought out, because I did. I hate it when people
are like judging folks for I don't know, getting groceries
delivered or whatever. And there's a lot of impact of that.
But for some people that's not like laziness, right. I mean,
(04:09):
we definitely relied on it during the pandemic as something
that when we didn't want to go out, we didn't
want to spread things. We were very concerned people who
were even compromised, and it was a resource that was
necessary that really did help try to maintain the spread.
And it's that that was the first time you really
understood why this could be beneficial. But yeah, that definitely
(04:33):
could be abused and I know this is a whole
different thing, and that's the whole conversation of like people
with disabilities have to rely on things like this, and
it's a service that that should have been happening previously. Absolutely,
we absolutely should not be like judging or shaming people
for whom they really rely on this for a lifeline.
And I think that's one of the reasons why it's
so important that the people who are you know, doing
(04:55):
the grocery delivery, who are the workers and the staff,
they should be treated well, they should be compensated well,
they should have protections like and people with disabilities should
not have to rely on like private some pretty exploitative
like grocery delivery apps like we like, everybody deserves better
and we shouldn't be judging anybody who is just trying
to live their life. Um. But I do think that
(05:17):
we are in a place where people who again myself included,
maybe got into some bad online shopping habits without really
hitting pause and really thinking about whether those habits, you know,
maybe got us through a tough time emotionally during but
maybe aren't really serving us so well or wallets so
(05:39):
well if you're me here right right. It's kind of
interesting because I think we've talked about this for I'm
a big fan of TikTok, I can get lost in
it for hours and hours at a time. I get
that so many things and like, yeah, it starts to
read me and I'm like, okay, stop that. Why are
you sitting at me? An add about this And it's
(06:01):
not necessarily an add but it's someone that I trust,
or say trust uh and quotes because it's someone that
I like and follow and they seem like good people
you never know, uh. And then they're like, oh, yeah,
these are my five Amazon fines and these are my
five Costco fines and I'm like, yes, you are correct.
I need those things. Have did I know that it existed? No?
(06:23):
But I absolutely need those things, and it's getting to
be more and more. The five Amazon stuff always gets me.
And I have this thing with like there's so many
creators on TikTok, which I'm also addicted to. Uh, so
I feel you on that, Sam, but like TikTok ers
who are all about you know, like, oh, here's like
here's what my really organized desk or workspace looks like
(06:45):
Like I clearly have some kind of emotional hang up
around the way that work gets done in my life,
and so I subsequently follow a lot of creators for
who mets their niche, and so they're like, here's what
my notion looks like, Here's what my dot journaling looks like.
You're is what my laptop or workstation looks like, and
that I clearly have some kind of a like hang
up about that internally, and so I watch a lot
(07:07):
of that, And so whenever they're like, my, you know,
go to my Amazon store front my five you know,
the five things that really helped me stay productive, I
know that I'm kind of vulnerable and prime to just
click by without even thinking about it because it speaks
to some sort of internal like the issue I have
where I'm like, I must think that, oh, the way
that work gets done in my life is not up
(07:29):
to par with the way that work gets done in
the lives of other creative people or something. And so
it's really I think part of it really is like
knowing your triggers and knowing knowing the the vulnerabilities that
you have that we're so likely to try to fill
by hitting by now or by buying a thing that
we really ultimately might not even need. And so you
(07:52):
know that if I had to give this this conversation
like a so what it's that we should really be
in a headspace of asking some questions when it feels
like the algorithm or the app or the platform is
the one in control and we are passive. I think
that what is really important is if we switch that
dynamic so that we, the human, the person who makes
(08:13):
the money and makes the decisions about how the money
gets spent, is the one in control and that we
are not, you know, at the behest of algorithms and
influencers who we don't even know, and you know, apps
and platforms, and so in service of that, I think
it kind of makes sense to kind of talk about
how we got here, like a little bit of a
(08:33):
look back on influencing and how how we got to
this point. Or maybe people are kind of starting to
ask a few questions about the role that social media
influencing has on our life. So if I had to
ask you, what do you think used to be the
main app on social media where a lot of influencing
was taking place, what would you say? Instagram? Instagram? Instagram.
(08:56):
It's absolutely Instagram. You know, back in the goals, the
era of Instagram, it looked good, it had a good layout,
it was easy to use, it was understandable. It was.
It was it was a different time, right, and so
I think like one it felt back then this one
I'm gonna say, like this is liketeen is when I
would kind of situate this. So it felt kind of
(09:19):
clear how one would get engagement. So if you were
on the if you were an influencer, if you were
on the influencer side of things, you probably had a
pretty clear sense of like what the algorithm was going
to reward. It rewarded images of faces, for instance, and
so the rules seemed pretty doable. You know, post every
day post natively from the Instagram app as opposed to
(09:40):
adding a picture later. Like it was pretty clear like
what you needed to do to to do well on Instagram.
Algorithmically speaking, I think that us, as the audience who
was consuming the content that influencers made on Instagram, we
also had a pretty good sense of what to expect.
You know, you were gonna get conventionally attractive women who
were giving you like life envy and making it seem like,
(10:02):
oh well, if you bought this specific item, your life
could be like mine, right, And like, obviously this is
like a curated, manufactured lie that could absolutely be harmful
to people who were consuming it um as researchers like
very clear, but I would argue that there was something
familiar to it, right, Like we understood what to expect
as an audience who was consuming the content of influencers.
(10:26):
But now here. There are two big things that are
happening that I believe have really shifted this Golden Instagram
age and thus shifted how folks are maybe feeling about influencers.
The first is that the social media landscape is really
really changing and really seeing some seismic shifts. We've seen
this play out in a couple of ways. One, people
(10:47):
just are not using Instagram like they were in the
golden era of you know, a new report in the
Atlantic that came out last month called Everyone Is Over
Instagram said that Instagram is slowly and steadily losing its
relevant specifically with young users, and like that's the user
base that any social media platform really needs to court,
like young people. You want young people to really be
(11:09):
using your platform for to feel like really relevant, right right.
And It's funny because I I am not on TikTok,
but I've noticed that Instagram is just like videos now
it's like to talk, which is a different thing. It's
a different thing. Um, but it is interesting to me.
I love I'm fascinated by kind of these like shifts.
(11:31):
Why do people like, like why are people into TikTok
over like Instagram? Why why is that happening? Um? But yeah,
I mean why why is it that Instagram has lost favor?
Why is it fading? That's a great question. I would
say one is just that, like when the rules become
less transparent or just less doable, I think people find
(11:54):
it less kind of worth it to post there, right,
And so I think that if the rules felt clear
in Tony four teen, today, it seems like every month
Instagram announces a new things are going to be prioritizing.
It used to be static images, then it's going to
be video. You know. It used to be like if
you posted once a day, that was enough. Then Instagram
put out guidance for creators that was like, oh, you
(12:15):
need to be making four reels a day. That's a
lot of content. It's just not possible. And so if
Instagram decides we're going to algorithmically reward people who follow,
this like difficult to follow and also difficult to understand
and constantly changing set of guidelines, and if you don't
follow those, we're not going to show your post to anybody,
(12:36):
even your friends, even the people who want to see
your posts. It just eventually starts to feel like, well,
what's the point, right, Like that's one of the reasons
why personally, like I've used Instagram less. It's because whatever
the guidance is they give to creators to try to
get more engagement on the platform, it's just too much.
Right Like I have at work, I don't. It's like,
Instagram is not my job. For some people, it is
their job, and so I can understand, you know, playing
(12:59):
the game a willle bit more, but it's not what
I do. I have do other things in my life.
And so if then I'm going to be kind of
I use this word very lightly, but like punished algorithmically
by having my content not shown to people, even people
who I know, even people who are my friends who
I know want to see that content. What is the point? Like?
Why why jump through those hoops if that's how you're
(13:20):
gonna gonna be treated on a platform, you know, right?
You know? And I was thinking as with Instagram when
we were talking about yes, there's all these reels and
the younger people are getting frustrated. They also changed the algorithm.
I know there was like a whole year long campaign
of people just asking can you see this post um,
And even for our posts at stuff mo, I've never
told you we are verified. We have our thirty thousand followers.
(13:42):
We rarely get more than four or five likes because
we don't post but every other day. And like when
you look up, how do you get you know, followers
or views. It's literally like you said the post four things,
but now it's adding post this, putting it on the reel,
put it on the like the videos, and you have
to do all three of those things. So you're literally
taking four post times three to put it on the
(14:03):
same site, and it doesn't sound like it's worth it anymore.
And then the suppression alone with the algorithm, why just
why exactly? And you have to basically be a one
person like studio, right because like you have to make
the post turn it into a real comments and it's
like you have a job, dude, Like you're a podcaster.
It's like your job is not doing Instagram. And I've
(14:24):
actually worked with like um social media managers, like professional
social media managers to help grow my account. And you know,
this was a few years ago, so I can't speak
to whether or not this is good advice now, So
don't try this thinking this is this is how you
grow Instagram now because I really don't know. But something
that she did is like, oh yeah, I just spend
a good amount of time commenting on content of accounts
(14:47):
that are similar to you in what they post. And
so you know, she would spend like two hours a
day this being like great posts. Yeah, I love this,
and like, who has time for that? Right? Like I
was doing a little experiment to see if it woul help,
and it actually did help grow my account. But like,
am I going to sit there and do that? Absolutely not, right, Like,
and so I can see why people are just like, yeah,
(15:09):
I'm not gonna do that. Don't need that. And I
think any I think that you mentioned that, um, when
you go to Instagram now, what you've kind of see
is a lot of reels that are really TikTok's that
you saw on TikTok if you have that platform, you know,
a week ago, and so it kind of I think separately,
I think that Instagram is really confused about what role
(15:32):
they are trying to play in our lives and in
our social media diets. I don't think that they know.
I think that like one day it will be images,
one day it'll be real. It's like not clear and
it's so funny because, um, someone else who is really
impressed about this are the Kardashians. Folks might recall that
over the summer, um, Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian both
posted an image saying, make Instagram Instagram again. Stop trying
(15:55):
to be TikTok. I just want to see cute photos
of my friends. And this is really kind of not
surprising to me because the Kardashians are so good at
being Instagram friendly or the friendly for the version of
Instagram that Instagram used to be, right, Like, they're all beautiful,
they all take beautiful pictures. They're all really good at
looking kind of Instagram perfect and polished. TikTok takes it
(16:18):
in a completely different skill set. You kind of have
to be funny or engaging, or you know, you have
to have something that's gonna make Like, just looking good
on TikTok is not enough. You have to bring something else.
And no shade to the Kardashians that is not my
skill set either, So I'm not I'm not trying to
put them down or anything. And so what's interesting is
that after the Kardashians said, like, oh, go back to
(16:40):
cute pictures of my friends, the head of Instagram responded
over the summer saying that Instagram they just needed to
focus on video and reels to survive and grow as
a platform. Um. But then just last week he posted
that you know that was the wrong move. He did
a complete about face, and he said that Instagram quote
over folk is on video last year, and so now
(17:02):
the platform is going back to balancing the amount of
photos and video shown to users. UM. In one example
that he gave, you said that Instagram will consider how
often a person likes some comments on photos versus videos
to determine which content will appear first in their feeds.
And so this really tells me they're like, they don't
know what they're doing. They're not sure of their strategy.
You know, it's not clear to them what they're trying
(17:23):
to be. And I think it's no wonder how people
are like, yeah, I'll let y'all figure it out. And
while you'll figure it out, I'm gonna be on TikTok
or or just be getting rid of social media altogether.
(17:45):
You know, I think it's kind of funny because I
think of this analogy. When you think of Instagram, I
think of the elder millennials as me. Don't don't. I
don't want to hear it, because I've been between the
xers and the millennials. I came at the right of
the cup. But like elder millennials trying to be cool
and hip and talk to those gen z ears who
(18:06):
would be the TikTok goods and all, that's what's happening.
What we see is like Instagram trying to be really
cool and really relevant. It's just kind of missing the
mark because we are no longer at that point in life.
And I find it funny because that's all I can
think of TikTok versus Instagram. I'm trying to become TikTok,
and TikTok's like I don't care about you, so nothing
(18:27):
is like more. I mean, I love I love this
contact because I think that like gen z younger folks,
I like, I love it when they come for us
elder millennials. Um, sometimes they'll be like things that millennials
really need to stop doing on Instagram, and they I'm
always like yes, drag me like like no more boomerang,
you can fix us, thank you, and you know the
(18:48):
other part of that. And again, I think this has
a lot to do with the generational changes, and again
I love it is like, yeah, Instagram really gave birth to,
as we said, influencers and selling us things and selling
us ideas and selling us things that we will never
be and try to what what we try to still attain,
which is the Kardashians. You know, they were really big
(19:08):
force uh in that. But with TikTok, it seems like
the younger generations that was really into it was like,
we're tired of celebrities. We want a chance to see
regular people who have a lot of good ideas and content.
And the TikTok is for the people. Because I know
there's been a lot of pushback as celebrities are not
jumping on TikTok, but people, I stop it, this is
(19:29):
not for you. Oh my god, I could talk about
this for hours. This is something I find so fascinating.
So I think because TikTok is a younger platform, they
just have a completely different relationship with digital life than
like them then millennials have and so I absolutely agree
with you that, especially for younger folks who are spending
time on TikTok, and TikTok is the is the fastest
(19:49):
growing social media app out there right now. I think
the audience is very different from the curated Instagram audience
and that they do want more real stuff, but they
want authenticity, not that like fake like oh my house
is so messy, authenticity like really authenticity, and they are vocal,
like they will call you out. There was a whole
(20:10):
thing with um. I think it was Bethanie Frankel going
on TikTok and her transition to TikTok wasn't very smooth,
and I think part of it is because like celebrities
maybe are used to being able to say certain things
and get everybody fawning all over them on Instagram or
on other social media platforms, and they're not finding that
reception on TikTok. Like TikTok is the app for like
(20:32):
regular people to talk, it's not for celebrities to like
hawk their perfect lives. And there's actually a influencer right now,
like a big influencer michaela Nigeria. I apologize I been
saying her last name wrong, but um, it's in very
hot water for trying to do a mascara brand like
sponsored content while allegedly wearing false lashes. And so obviously
(20:55):
you can't be like this. A mascara is so great.
Look look at the way it should transform my lad
to where it's like, I think those are freak flashes, um,
And so people are calling this person out because that
doesn't fly there, right, And so I think that, like,
you're exactly right, Sam, that the audience that is big
on TikTok is a lot more vocal, a lot more savvy,
(21:15):
and they will call you out if they feel like
they're being pushed something that's just like like a fantasy
that's not real. Maybe on on Instagram you might get
away with that, but not on TikTok. Well, I will
say the thing about TikTok is there are TikTok sluts
that that is their intent and entire content is like
to call out the falsehood of other content. It is
(21:38):
the rabbit holes I have gone down where I'm like,
I don't even know this person. I have never even
seen them on TikTok, but apparently they're faking having a
scar to get clouts. I need to reach a thousand
comments and spend six hours of my time on this
despite only having one one life to live on this
green nurse. And I know what you're talking about, and
(21:58):
I hate that. I know what you're talking about out
because I did the dance same thing. What is this
that to do with it? Like, it has nothing to
do with me. This isn't even somebody who I follow
or I'm invested in, like you get you're like people
the evidence that people compile. It's like, I'm fascinated if
if anything ever happens to me. I guess I shouldn't
say that, but like the way that like TikTok's flues
(22:20):
are able to like investigate the nitty gritty, that really
doesn't matter. My hats are off to them. The petty.
The petty is real, and if it's all in good fun,
there's definitely seriousness that we definitely talked about before. But
the pettiness is real. And when you get invested in,
you're just like, well, well well, and you can't help
but be the voyor and you feel a little guilty.
(22:40):
I will say that, um, but you can't put one
over on them. And it continues to baffle me because
as as you're talking about TikTok is one of the
younger ones, the way that it has grown exponentially, I'm like,
is it going to be able to keep up with
that demand? Yeah, that's such a great question. I actually
(23:03):
this is a this is a a fuego take. So
you know, whatever is my opinion. I think that we
are going to see government legislation of TikTok in This
is like my big tech prediction. I think that it's
growing so much. I think there are national security questions.
(23:24):
I guess I'll just put it that way. I think
that you know, there have been there is like rarer
bipartisan support for doing something about TikTok. It's already been
banned on I think federal government devices can't have TikTok
on them. A handful of states have banned having TikTok
on state run devices, and that number is growing. Universities
(23:45):
are the same at numbers growing of universities that have
banned TikTok from state state owned devices. I think that
we are seeing enough traction in government in a in
a bipartisan way and also civil society and institutions that
I do think that like something is going to happen
or be done to combat TikTok's growth, because their growth
has just been like if folks want to look it up,
(24:07):
like it is wild, how many users it is gaining.
It's just it's just like exploding. One of the things
that I think about TikTok becoming kind of the new
place where people are spending their time online on social media. Um,
why that might be fueling a kind of backlash against
influencing is that this moves a lot faster than Instagram,
which fuels what they call micro trends. And so if
(24:29):
a trend is something that it's in style for a
little bit of time, a micro trend is something that
becomes in style or in vogue very quickly and then
burns out just as quickly. Something can be iconic and
very popular one month, and by the end of the
month people are talking about it being out of style.
A great example is like, um, this clothing brand I
(24:49):
really doubled down on and like went for a hard
house of sunny. They make this like very bright colored
clothing that really pops on social media, and I was like,
oh my god, and I bought like a sweater and
address and this and that. Maybe a month later people
were like, oh, would already looks so dated. And so
if you think about what is sort of in style,
how quickly it becomes sort of pass I think that
TikTok becoming a place where people spend more of their
(25:12):
digital time online is one of the reasons why trends
are kind of flaming out so quickly, and so if
you're an influencer, you know that's just a lot having
to like it is exhausting to be in even this
in the audience, to be told you need to buy
a new thing over and over and over again, and
in in January, it's this water bottle. In February that
(25:34):
water bottles out. Now it's this water bottle. It's it's
no wonder that people can't really keep up with that
because it's too fast. That's so funny. I feel like
I'm the like millennial person that comes in like, oh,
I finally got this thing, and they're like, that's three
years ago, what are you doing. It does feel like
it moves very very quickly, and actually an interesting implication
(25:55):
of this kind of thing is like, because I also
do a food podcast, is the thing like the feta pasta,
like feta cheese, like couldn't you couldn't find it anywhere,
And it was because of TikTok. And then a month
later everyone was like, what are you talking about? But
for that one month, nobody could find feta cheese. Yeah,
I see it with food. It's so interesting when it
(26:17):
happens with food because it does correlate with when you
go to the grocery store. It's just like not there. Um,
I've heard that tinned fish is like the new thing
right now, which if you don't want to talk about
like our economic climate, the fact that like tinned fish
that go just having our tinned fish date that tells
me something. I'm like, oh, people are thinking about our
economic climate in some perhaps like less than cheery outlook,
(26:41):
which brings us to what we've been talking about. Is
another piece of this is like like like what I
was saying with myself my friends, is this anxiety of
this like maybe if I buy this thing, I'll feel better,
like maybe this will make things better. And that's not
unique absolutely, And so the second thing that we're seeing
(27:03):
that's really I think shaping all this is this kind
of feeling of like economic unease and uncertainty that is
impacting the way that people are responding to influencing. I
think that a lot of folks are concerned about an
economic downturn. We're seeing like layoffs and a lot of
sectors like tech and media. I don't I think people
are perhaps wary about spending money on things that they
(27:24):
see online and maybe doing it in a different way
than maybe once we're in And I think that, like
more importantly, I think that as we go into times
that are uncertain, economically uncertain, economically unstable, people don't really
want to open up their phone and see people living
the high life, right Like, it just doesn't feel good
(27:45):
to be worried about inflation, worried about food being on
the shelves, worried about how you're gonna make rent, if
you're gonna be laid off, and open your phone and
see an influencer trying to sell you that their life
is perfect and that your life can be perfect too
if you buy this thing that you don't need, don't
have money for, and don't even really want. I think
that people are just not feeling that vibe anymore. I
(28:07):
think there was a time where that had a time
and a place and it felt very familiar. I think
right now we're not loving it. Yeah, yeah, it just
feels kind of like out of touch. And and and you
brought up the Kardashians earlier, and they're big, like they've
even been in the news recently for like lawsuits, but
they were really big about this of like selling you
a thing. It just felt like they weren't kind of
(28:30):
reading the room. I guess, like totally. I remember they
and I talked about this in an episode of There
Are No Girls on the Internet, my own podcast Around
the Holidays. I remember, I think it was last year
or the year before, they posted their Easter spread, and
it was like the most opulent thing, like even for
Kardashian standards, the most opulent thing you've ever seen. It
(28:53):
was like life like life size Teddy Bears, full size,
like five full size gumball machine means, was like pink
gum in them for bicycles. It was like the most
elaborate and lavish opulent spread, even by Kardashian standards, that
I have seen. And the response was not like, Wow,
how cool for them. The response was over consume much like,
(29:16):
and I think that that really shows us that we
are in a place where when they posted that, they
probably thought everyone was gonna love it, but in reality,
most people were like, this is a little opulent, seems
a little tacky, seems a lot of a little out
of touch for one holiday, Like, at what point do
we start asking questions about the value of over consumption
and whether or not that's a value that is like
inherently good or healthy or like serving us in our lives, right,
(29:41):
And I mean Instagram and that that's kind of thing,
is like you're presenting this really curated version of your life,
um and then kind of at least in my case.
And I think there's been some says about this, but
like feeling bad because you'd see other people's pictures are
like their life is way better than mine. But also,
(30:03):
and I could be wrong about this, but I feel
like a lot of the influencers I saw on Instagram
were women, Like a lot of the people who were like, Hey,
you need to buy this thing, And maybe that's just
an algorithm for me, but it's not just you. I
think this is inherently gendered. The lion share of influencers
are women and girls. According to a study by the
(30:24):
influencer marketing agency Isaiah, women accounted for more than of
sponsorships made as influencers. But I should know if that,
because this is America. There is also an influencer pay gap.
Even though there are more like women make up the
bulk of influencing, they're still paid less than men for influencing,
which is a real head scratcher. But yeah, I think
(30:45):
it's women and girls who are being sold all of
this and they're not. It's we're not. It's being sold products.
We are being sold products as a proxy for like
getting your life together, or like succeeding being a woman,
or or I think that we're being sold on the
idea that you can consume your way into the kind
of life that you want. And I think that capitalism
(31:05):
and consumption as a means of perpetuating gender roles has
always been a thing. And I think right now, I
think a lot of women are just exhausted. We have
been burdened with so much, we have had our rights,
just like, it's not a very rosy time to be
a woman. What I'm saying, I don't want. I feel
like if I go into it, I'll be all here
all day. But you know, I think that a lot
(31:27):
of women are just like, on top of everything else
that we have to shoulder. I don't have the emotional
bandwidth two buy into this idea that tells me that
I have to buy this product on Instagram to be
a more complete woman. You know, I think more women
are calling bs on this idea, especially younger women, right.
I will say so immediately after the New Year. The
(31:48):
first thing and what are the first and I think
you were superviral. Is this girl laying down in bed
in TikTok and saying you don't need this. Here are
the five products you don't need and then goes down
is of all the trends and that this is about you.
You're not going to use this, You're not gonna ever
see it again, don't buy it. You're only good Like
that was the first video I saw. It was like,
(32:08):
oh what is this? And the next one was the
girl who was like, hey, I have a bought every
single expensive hair product. These are both in Here are
the products you should go to go to CVS. This
is much better. Don't buy those expensive things. And I
was like, what is happening. Yeah, so that is a
great example of the influencing which is all over TikTok
right now. So what is the influencing, Well, basically, again,
(32:30):
it's exactly what it sounds like. Rather than trying to
convince you to buy something, it's telling you you don't
actually need to buy this. So creators will be telling
you like, you don't need another water bottle if you're me,
you don't need another notebook that you you know, are
not gonna use when you already have like twenty on yourself,
or telling you how different TikTok or social media famous
products are actually not worth the money, not worth it.
(32:52):
According to the newsletter Glossy, the hashtag de influencing has
twenty one point four million views and has increased in
popularity even in just the last week. They spoke to
a creator who goes by L Gray or Basic of course,
who pointed to the impact of the economy on consumer
spending and the ability or lack thereof to buy based
on influencer recommendations as one of the reasons why de
(33:14):
influencing is becoming so popular. L says, in the last
twelve months, we've seen an extreme slowdown in the global economy.
As we enter into a recession, people are starting to
feel the effects and are taking a closer look at
their spending and consumption. Many people have gotten fed up
with the constant barrage of micro trends and must have items,
especially as they take a closer look at their bank accounts.
(33:34):
And so, you know, I think that this creator is
probably onto something that you know, we started this conversation
today talking about the things that we and again myself
very guilty of this uh over consumed online in I
think that de influencing is a response to some of
these over consumption habits that a lot of us just
(33:55):
sort of picked up during the pandemic and like just
kept having in our life. And now we're like, wait
a minute, is this actually a good idea? Is it
actually good that I, you know, we'll just click by
now and get something without really thinking about if I
need it, if I want it, Like, is that something
I actually truly need? Probably not, I will say, I
(34:28):
feel like and maybe it's just the side of TikTok
I'm on because we know it is very curated. These
the influencers who are trying to help you save money
and tell you what it is and tell you what's working,
what's not working. It's almost the way of women supporting women,
or you know, the marginalized supporting the marginalized, Like you're
the one, I know this is aimed towards you. Typically
women are typically you know, those who are in like
really harsh places. So I'm going to help you and
(34:50):
tell you not to do this. And on top of that,
the same conversation about the gen z ears again I'm
still in all of them, is that they are all
about calling out the bs. So when they see an
influencers saying this is amazing, and then they start realizing
this person is all about the money. This person is
not genuinely doing things, kind of like the mascara, We're
going to call you out until you don't do this
(35:12):
again as a way to protect other consumers slash other women.
I love how you put that. I absolutely have seen
a million times that women and other marginalized people telling
each other the truth and leveling with each other and
breaking down for each other. That is more powerful than
a million dollar pr AT campaign, than a million well
(35:34):
paid like you know, pr agents working over time. Nothing
is more powerful than women sharing their truths with each other,
and that can like, yeah, it doesn't, It doesn't matter
what like expensive marketing firm that you've that you've contracted.
Women sharing each other's truths with each other will always
be more powerful. Absolutely, yeah. And I find it interesting
(35:56):
because it's those kind of like that same girl I
was talking about who was saying don't buy does, and
she's now gone viral. Being honest, being truthful and trying
to protect others has really built her audience, and she's
become an influencer slash the influencer and is now getting
credibility and may be able to go viral enough to
like start having her own outlets. Whether it is who knows.
(36:17):
I know several people from TikTok as well as YouTube,
but that's the whole thing. Have shows, get shows, get
brand deals, and get specific deals that are genuinely good
because they are honest, and it's building them up. So
it's interesting to see how this the opposite of that
has grown them. That makes sense. It makes so much
(36:37):
sense that I've been I think it's I think it
marks a shift, and I think it's good. I think
that like we should question why the powers that be
are so quick to reward people who make their entire
thing about stuff that you should buy over consumption. We
could be instead building up honest platforms and platforms that
(36:59):
say like, well, you really aren't going to use this,
or you really don't need this. Like I love watching
on TikTok people who do closet clean out and they're like,
these are the top five things I like remove from
people's closets, or like the top ten things people don't
actually wear, because it might actually help create that shift
of being a little bit more in tuned and intentional
(37:20):
about what you buy. And I think that's really important.
I mean, like, it has so many implications, not you know,
not the least of which is the environmental impact of Like,
you know, I had a little bit of a of
a fast fashion thing myself, like I would buy from
this brand she she in, where you know, it's like
it's so it's so cheap, but it like it looks
it looks like the fancier stuff, but it's so cheap.
(37:42):
Then it's like, well, you're like, actually it is one
of the biggest offenders a fast fashion that ends up
you know, polluting our world. And it's like I don't
want to be I don't. I don't want, like, I
don't want my unexamined emotional need to translate to a
worst world for the next generation to come. And so
(38:03):
I really kind of solve the like need for me
to do a little bit of thinking and unpacking and
intention around my own consumption habits and what I was
trying to fill by buying things and the longer term
consequences for generations to come. I know that sounds like
a lot, but like you're gonna start somewhere right, No,
it is absolutely goes hand in hand again with the
(38:24):
new creators that the people who are getting big on
TikTok are those who are like, hey, you're doing these
things and it could be of course, this is a
whole different conversation about diagnosing and assuming everybody's one thing
or another, but it does call call out to be like, hey,
you have this reaction which could be costing you money,
costing your time because of a trauma, so you're focusing
(38:45):
on the wrong thing. Like I do love seeing them
correlate actual action to internalized trauma or uh maybe reasoning
however you want to say it. But it is encouraging
to see that there's more correlations that these influencers slash
TikTok people are talking about out loud, So you start
considering the actual basis of trying consuming too much or
(39:08):
consuming way too fast, or not thinking about it. It's
both encouraging and kind of scary to see how quickly
this can flip, because we really did go from a
generation of we have to be perfect, we have to
look perfect, we have to be the Kardashians, uh, white
girl version of what I mean by that is the
skinny skinny version you you know, yeah, I know what
(39:30):
I'm talking about um too. But to like coming into
loving your body, do things that are healthy for you,
do things that make you happy, do things that bring
you joy, and then going into and that comes to
having peace of mind. And this is how you do it.
And so it's kind of interesting to see how we
flip there. But we are at this cusp of like
(39:51):
it could flip again, and is it going to be
healthy or unhealthy? I think again, TikTok is being is
encouraging to me to see the creators that I'm seeing.
That's such a good point and I think, you know,
the bottom line of this is that you cannot consume
yourself into feeling like a complete version of yourself to
(40:12):
feeling whole. You know, I talked earlier about how I
get really kind of stuck on these like people who
are full time creatives or full time creative professionals and
and the way that that work gets done in their lives,
and how it looks so good to me. It looks
like they're very together, like they've got lists, they look
very organized and very cozy and very peaceful. And that
(40:32):
clearly that is speaking that some kind of perception that
I have internally that I am not enough. There's something
I can buy that it's going to make me feel enough.
I have to just get there through self work, through growth,
through introspection. I I completely understand the need to like
just hit by now and like if I get everything
that this woman has in her house, maybe I'll get it,
(40:52):
but I won't. You can't consume your way into I guess,
feel good about what you've got, feeling good about who
you are, you know, feeling good at like feeling like
yourself and feeling like that's enough. There's just not a
product that's going to do that. It's gonna take It's
gonna take work, and so I think, you know that's
(41:13):
it's definitely easier to just buy a thing, and I,
boy do I keep trying, but I know I just
got some tease that I went viral. We won't talk
about that more. Oh, it's like this is I don't
want this to sound judging, because like who amongst us right,
like I am, we're all works on progress. But but
if you were interested in trying to unwork, unpack some
(41:36):
of this, like de influence yourself, first, I should say, like,
I'm not a professional. So if you if you are
someone listening and you think that you really might have
a true issue with like buying things and shopping that
you might need to talk to somebody about, you should
do that. Talk to a professional if you feel like
your issue rises beyond you know what we're talking about here.
But a couple of tips that might help folks de
influence themselves. My favorite sleeper tip is that if you
(41:59):
have an I phone or I think I think it
works on injury to um using your phone in gray scale.
My phone is in gray scale probably of the time.
You can go into your accessibility settings on your iPhone
and change your your phone to gray scale, and I
have it so that the little button on the side,
the power button, if I hit that three times, it
flips from gray scale to color. So if somebody sends
(42:21):
me a picture where it's like, oh, I need to
see this in color to get the context, I can easily,
you know, flip it to color, flip it back. When
I tell you that, it makes things on your phone
looks so much less enticing and less appealing. And I
can absolutely feel it when I'm looking at my phone
and color. I can feel the little synapses and neurons
(42:43):
going off in my brain that tell me by this,
click that, look at that, read that, And it makes
the experience of using social media more boring, but in
a good way. I'm just I feel a lot more
in control when all of these bright colors that are
literally designed by people who make lots and lots of
(43:04):
money to to like, you know, fire things in your
brain and to get you to be as as as
tuned in and it's plugged in as you can. And
so I'm a big fan of like trying to to
throw our wrench in this techno hacking that messes with
all of our brains. So trying to put your phone
in gray scale. I love it. Another one is that
(43:25):
when you feel that twitch in your brain that says
I need this, don't click by right away, right like,
ask yourself, does this fill a legitimate need in my life?
If you're Samantha's partner? Is it just another vessel with
which to drink coffee or liquids? That do? I already
have a vessel or several vessels that make that need.
(43:48):
I throw it out and then like, notice your emotions,
like when you feel influenced, really asked, like, do I
feel the need to buy this because it is serving
an emotional need or feeling an emotional hole that I have?
And what's that about? You can really just start small,
just asking isn't that interesting? Be curious about the emotions
that are sparked for you when you're using social media.
(44:11):
My therapist always says that judgment and curiosity cannot coexist.
And so rather than being like, oh, you just are
so bad with the money, you just throw money away,
You just cannot stop shopping online. That's judgment. And so
when you're judging the way that you feel, when you're
judging your emotions, you can't be curious about them. Curiosity
is how we get to some place better and like
(44:32):
move forward, and then lastly, learn to love what you
already have. You know, I spent so long chasing micro
trends and quick hit trends that when I look at
my closet, there are things in there that I love
that I don't even really know where they are. I
don't even have access to them or see them because
my closet is so full of the stuff that I
bought that I didn't even really think about, and so
(44:54):
it makes it harder for me to love the things
that I actually do have that feel good and so
the things that I really do value in life. Because
there are plenty of things that I bought where I'm like,
oh that was I do not regret that choice. That
was a goodbye. It makes it harder to really appreciate
the things that are good byes and have them stand
out when you just buy so much crap that you
don't even really need right organized, because you will find
(45:16):
that thing you love that you forgot about for two.
If you do that, you shop your closet exactly. Yes,
during the pandemic, I remember there were a couple of
times where I was like I really really want this thing,
and then I would look through my closet. I already
have that thing. Yes, I can't tell you how many
(45:37):
times it's happened. Where'm like, I'm like doing reruns, Like
I like, I'm already in reruns on my closet, like
what is this? And then like, if you're me anyway,
I wear like the same T shirt like for an
entire week. So yeah, buying new clothes just to wear
your uniform every day? Like what are we doing? Right? Yes? Well,
(45:58):
thank you as always for it for bringing this topic
to us. It was very informative for me. I've not
heard of this. This is amazing. I love it. I
love it. I love it. Yes, where can the good
listeners find you? Well, you can always tune into my
podcast on this very same network. There are no girls
on the internet. You can follow me on Instagram at
Bridget Brian d C. I will not influence you. I
(46:21):
can't promise that I will never, but you know, like
we gotta eat. No, I'm just kidding. On Twitter at
Bridget Murray I love it. Yes, go go check that
us out if you haven't already, listeners, thank you again
Bridget for coming. We love having you, can't wait to
have you again. Yes, yes uh. And the listeners I
(46:41):
who would like to contact us, you can or email.
It's definitely a mom Stuff that I Hurt Me dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at moms to podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok what that stuff Mom Never
told You? Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
Thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff When
Never Told You. Protection by Heart Radio. For more podcast
my Heart Radio, you can check out the radio app
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