Listen to Joey breakdown TikTok’s crisis of femininity on Stuff Mom Never Told You: https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-mom-never-told-you/tiktoks-crisis-of-femininity
A Straight Woman Walks Into a Lesbian Bar… And Generates TikTok Controversy: https://www.them.us/story/tik-tok-lesbian-bar-drama-controversy-explained
Bluesky is now open for anyone to join: https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/06/bluesky-is-now-open-for-anyone-to-join/
Conservative influencers are using AI to cover up photos of sex workers: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/conservative-influencers-are-using-ai-cover-photos-sex-workers-rcna137341
Gina Carano Sues Disney Over ‘Mandalorian’ Firing In Lawsuit Funded by Elon Musk: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/gina-carano-sues-disney-mandalorian-firing-lawsuit-elon-musk-1235817466/
SpaceX accused of sexual harassment and discrimination in ex-workers’ suit: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/feb/06/spacex-accused-sexual-harassment-discrimination
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production
of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
is there Are No Girls on the Internet. Joeye, welcome
back to the show. I am so happy that you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, Bridget, it's great to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So I'll just jump right into it in lieu of banter.
I have been dying to get your thoughts on something.
Did you see that viral TikTok and the responses to
it about the straight sis woman who went to a
lesbian bar in Brooklyn with her straight sis male friend
(00:43):
and it sounds like maybe the friend was asked to leave.
She made a TikTok about it. Do you know what
I'm talking about?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I did, Yes, I did watch the original video and
the follow up and all of.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
The various commentaries.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So many follow ups.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
There were so many follow ups. So the bar in
question actually was not in Brooklyn. It's Cubby Hole, which
is in the West Village of Manhattan. I actually have
never been there. A big reason why I have not
been there is because it's tiny.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Like it is a like, and that is something that
a lot of the.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Kind of commentary on this pointed out as the fact
that cubby Hole is like it's it's tiny, it's probably
like literally like the size of my apartment. But yeah,
this has been all over my TikTok. I could spend
the entire episode talking about it. But yeah, no, it
was weird. I you know, I feel like this has been.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
A good reminder that straight women.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Sometimes can be just as bad as straight this men
in terms of just like absolutely missing the whole situation.
I just I don't know my favorite respont so this
whole thing so far was like like being like, hey,
why do you want to be in the lesbian bar
to begin with?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Like it's a lesbian bar, Like what are you?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
What are you gonna do? Like that's such a good
point one of the one of the TikTok responses, and
something something about this TikTok really got people talking, so
if folks, so, just to give a little bit more context,
the woman who makes the TikTok is one of those
tiktoks where she's doing a story time doing her makeup,
and she's explaining how at a night out at cubby Hole,
(02:32):
someone that she sort of describes as like a mean
lesbian comes up to her friend that is like who,
why are you here? Who are you with? And she's like, oh,
he's with me. And as a straight person in a
lesbian bar, it's a little bit much to be like,
oh he's with me. I'm someone's guest and I have
a guest. And so basically she's like, is this a
(02:53):
new thing where you're not allowed to be in the
lesbian bar if you are straight?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
She specifically says like, is there a rule like ye, school,
and it's like, no, there's no rule.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That you can't go to a gay bar if you're straight.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
It's just there's also no rule that people aren't gonna
be like why are you here?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Like yes. So the response that I saw that really
made me think, well, one, I've never been in the
cubby hole either, but seeing how small it is, I
was like, Okay, I can kind of get a sense
of like maybe what was going on. Also, that woman
who made the first TikTok, she was like, oh there
were other men there, you know, like he wasn't the
(03:34):
only man there, And so part of me was like
nobody was walking up to those people and being like
you're straight, what are you doing here? How did someone
like I just have a hard time believing that somebody
just singled this guy out knew that he was straight,
walked up to him and was like, what are you
doing here? I feel like something about his behavior, something
about what they were doing, must have at least at
(03:55):
the very at the very baseline, have been obnoxious, Like
in a small space.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, exactly did you?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Did you see the follow up from the woman who
was the lesbian in the video or that was being
talked about, She made a follow up and she was
like she was just kind of like, yeah, I was
like trying to find the bat well. I think she
was like trying to find the line for the bathroom,
and this dude was in the way, and she asked
him if he could like move or like, I don't know,
like he just it sounds like apparently he was just
(04:22):
acting sort of weird about it. He was being sort
of a dick about it, and she was kind of like, oh, well,
like are you here with anybody? Like are you here
with friends? And he immediately was like, oh well would
it would it be okay? It would it not be
okay if I wasn't here with anybody?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Was like, I don't what is up with straight people?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
And like straight CIS men specifically like making up fake
scenarios where they're being attacked. Like literally nobody he was
the one to be like, oh, it wouldn't be not okay,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, man, I like weird it was.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
It was good at least to see how quickly I
think people jumped to defend the uh supposed me and
lesbian in the video and you know, actually address the
fact that a lot of the stuff that the original
video said were like weirdly homophobic, and even the out
the comment about like oh there were all these like
(05:16):
flamboyant gay men there and.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, I don't know, and once again like it's a
tiny bar, it's a spaceport.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well this is the bigger issue.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
And I think the reason this like really blew up
and like resonated with a lot a lot of people
right now is because like there is a tiny number
of like lesbian bars that are actually operating in the US.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I looked up, only twenty three lesbian bars exist in
the United States.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, and like you know, this is in the West Village,
which is like where Stonewall is. It's like was the
big gay neighborhood for a while in New York now.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It really is anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
But there's all these like really important historic gay bars,
and in terms of lesbian bars, it's kind of just
like Henrietta's and Cupyhole and that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And again Cupyhole is.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
A tiny space that is like the reason these bars
exist is because you know, queer people were excluded from
or you know the whole, well, the whole like cis
straight woman. Argument is like, oh, well, I just feel
more comfortable and like gay bars that I do in
straight bar. But then it's like, how do you think
gay people feel?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Like it is a whole other level. Yeah, which it's
so like these these spaces exist for a reason. They
exist because they're responding.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
To the fact that queer people were excluded from straight spaces.
And it's so weird now to be seeing straight people
be so up in arms about it. Like imagine scenario
when they're being told they can't go into the spaces
that were created because they excluded.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Us from other spaces, Like it's weird.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, it's basically like like you can't be in our space, Okay,
we'll make our own space. I want in that space.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Right, Look, I know, like queer women are cool now, like.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
But.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Please like just give up. This is like we have
so little that is just for I don't know, and
even I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
There was another TikTok I saw with the whole comment
about like, oh well, there were all these gay men there,
that was like, hey, it's like weird, how like how
do you know they're gay men?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Also, it's like, yeah, it's a gay bar. There's gay
men at the gay bar.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
There's gay women that cod to gay male bars that
they're like, I don't know. There's just a different like
kind of attitude about gender that straight people just like.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Do not even want to think about.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
What do you think? It has been a long time
since I've seen something that was regional specific, like happening
in one city, circulated in one bar, that got such
a big reaction from people who like, maybe you have
never even been to New York City. I've never been
to that bar. Do you think Do you think it's
the feeling of like feeling nationally like queer spaces are
(08:06):
being pushed out, and so this need to use online
platforms to loudly like say that and to like there's
like a chorus of people who are like actually this
is really messed up. Here's why do you think that's
what's going on and why it resonated so much.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I think it's like exactly that.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I think it's just, you know, whatever part of the
country you're in, you know, either your rights are actively
like being debated in your state government right now, or
being taken away from you, or yeah, you're briefly keep
if you're in a place like New York that's like
supposed to be more accepting, but these queer spaces are
(08:45):
becoming like few and far apart, and uh, there's been
more and more sort of co opting of those spaces
by straight folks, and I think, you know, I think that, Yeah,
it is like a big part of this is just
that it's part of this bigger trend of like these
spaces closing and going away, and then also the few
(09:09):
spaces we have left straight people coming into them and
only really coming in to sort of prove that they
can be there, which seems to be the biggest issue here. Like,
I don't know, that's just the thing that gets me
every time, is it's this whole like this whole conflict.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Ay, they kind of.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Made it, not made it up, but it was like
an imagined thing, like nobody was telling him he couldn't
be there. And then also it's like, but yeah, why
are you like so insistent on invading this ban, which
it's interesting, like what as somebody there was a one
of the videos that I saw like responding to this
was like talking about how you know, originally there was
all these like straight women that were coming to gay
(09:47):
bars because they were like you know, quote unquote felt
more safe there, and then would sometimes not all the times,
but like occasionally then you know, act in a way
that was making the gay patrons of the bar not
feel safe. And then also now it's happening is a
lot of like straight cis men are coming into gay
(10:08):
bars and are coming into gay male bars quote unquote
or like lesbian bars or whatever, because they're following these
like straight women that are going there. And now it's like, yeah,
like I've had the experience of being hit on by
sis straight men at a lesbian bar and is so infuriating.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
It's like is there nowhere where like heterosexuality doesn't have
to be centered like there's a gay bar.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Right And the stupidest thing about it is like these
are the same people that then are gonna come to
that and be like, oh, well, look do you how
do you do you know that I'm It's just people
know that fears Like nobody who's not a CIS man
would respond to that with like, oh well, look, how
did you know that I'm Like.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's so stupid. It's like.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
It's this like self victimization going into the spaces of
the people that you're actually oppressing, or like, you know,
have I've created these oppressive structures for Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Anyways, Yeah, clearly I have a lot of feelings about this.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
No I thought you would. I'm glad to get your takes.
I have a this might be a hot take. I
agree with everything that you've laid out. It makes so
much sense. I would also yes, and that and add
I think there was something about that original person, that
original woman's TikTok where it just sounded so smug and
(11:28):
like self assured. And let me just say this, Yeah,
if I had gone out to any kind of space
where someone came up to me and it became clear
that I was doing something that was making them uncomfortable,
it was making them feel some kind of a way
they didn't want me there. They were asking me questions
about you know why I was there. I don't think
after the fact I would I would make a video
that was like okay, so I made them uncomfortable, Like
(11:51):
you know what I'm saying. I was. I was surprised
how how comfortable she was taking the position of we've
done nothing wrong. He did nothing wrong. It's actually this big,
mean lesbian who's done something wrong. That was really I
think there's something about that that just like gets under it.
It's just kind of gets under people's skin. And maybe
(12:12):
that's one of the reasons why people are like, I
gotta sbit some facts for that.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
This one, well, it's I mean, she's like doing her
makeup in the video and look like look usually I
have not for like internet pilods people like whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Sometimes people do stupid things and make mistakes. In this case, yeah,
it's the like smugness of it.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And then she ended up like deleting it and making
an apology video and then later deleted the apology video.
But in the apology video, she's a still doing her makeup.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, she's doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
That's a whole thing, And she says it in the
same tone where she's like, I was just asking a
like question, Like I don't understand you were not just
asking a question. Like you cannot come in and like
spew homophobic kind of tropes and then expect people not
to get mad about that. You cannot go into a
queer space and like yeah, create like have that kind
(13:05):
of response and then be surprised when people react negatively
to you, you know, doing.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That, Yes, and let's be real, like there is a
tone of voice, like there is a way to convey
seriousness via a TikTok doing your makeup and being like, well,
I'm just asking questions. Everybody knows what you are trying
to convey. It is very clear what you're trying to convey.
I really don't like it when people make content like
(13:33):
that and then they try to they try to like
throw a rock and hide their hands. It's like, you
clearly made this video, you know, don't try to act
like you were just asking questions and you weren't trying
to be disrespectful or smug. Now, if that's how you feel,
that's how you feel. It's like a there's this thing
online that I see a lot where people will be
trying to convey a certain tone or a certain smugness
(13:55):
or a flippancy if that's a word. I don't know.
Check check that if that is or not. I don't know.
But and then when they're called on it, they're like, oh,
that's just I wasn't I didn't mean it that way.
I feel like she meant it how she meant it,
it was received the way that it was intended. And
the fact that she had to delete her apology video
as well. I don't know, I really it really tells
(14:17):
me something.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Right, like, that's not an apology. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I look, I think straight women, straight white women like
y'all can be just as homophobic as your straight boyfriends.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Like.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
But anyways, I could go on about this for the
whole episode.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Bridget. I'm sure you've got many more stories.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Let's get into it.
Let's start with Blue Sky. So Blue Sky, for folks
who don't know, is a Twitter alternative funded by Twitter
co founder Jack Dorsey. It used to be invite only,
and there was a time where people would be like, oh,
who has a Blue Sky invite? Like, who's got a code?
Who's got a code? Well, good news if you're interested
(15:01):
in checking it out. Blue Sky is now available to everyone.
So blue Sky, I've used it a bit. It's it
looks a lot. It looks and feels a lot like Twitter. However,
it is open source, so that means that there is
more transparency into how it is run because it is
open source. So tech Crunch had a piece that really
put this into perspective. Before opening to the public, Blue
(15:23):
Sky had about three million sign ups now that anybody
can join. Can Blue Sky meaningfully stand up to threads
is one hundred and thirty million monthly active users or
Mastodon's one point eight million active users. It is a
fair question. The answer is I don't know. TBD. However,
I I don't know. I think it's kind of exciting. Like,
(15:44):
on the one hand, I am definitely experiencing a kind
of like fatigue slash exhaustion in our current digital media
landscape where you know, I just feel like you're meant
to be everywhere, You're meant to be branding yourself everywhere
if you want to do anything at all, and the
(16:06):
you know, the landscape keep shifting beneath my feet, and
SOA's like, oh, here's how you succeed on Twitter here,
and then that changes, and then it's like, oh, here's
how you succeed on Instagram, and then that changes. And
I am feeling a little bit of fatigue of feeling
like I have to show up everywhere and not really
knowing how to do that, and feeling like that is
like tied to my success as a creative person. That's
(16:28):
a whole other conversation. However, I don't know. I'm choosing
to sort of be excited about Blue Sky opening up
to everybody. I am really challenging myself to use Twitter less.
I deleted it from my phone and that's really helped.
I don't think that showing up on Twitter is good
for me anymore, and so I'm excited about just having
(16:49):
a new platform. In the mix, Joey, have you ever
used a Blue Sky?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I have not yet.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
I also kind of had some men of like I
don't know, like round this was.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I came out when there were all these like Twitter
knock off platforms that were coming out, and I think
I've made.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
A mastered on account. I made an account for one
of them.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Honestly, I don't remember which app it was, which I
think is so telling of just like how much stuff
was coming out then I like, but yeah, I think
I'm also like, I haven't really used my Twitter much
in the past couple of months, kind of been switched
over to like TikTok and and and Instagram with that.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
But you know, this is good here.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I feel like Blue Skuy is one of the ones
that I like heard about early on and I still
care about. So maybe maybe it's maybe it's taking off.
Who's to say Threads has been disappointing.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
So you know, I'm really trying. I mean, if folks
are having experiences with new platforms, let me know how
those experiences are going. I've tried Threats, so I've tried Threads,
I've tried Spill. We had a senior leader from Spill
on the podcast a few months ago. She was great, like,
(18:05):
really made me excited for the platform. My not using
it a lot is not an indication that it's not
a good platform. It's just like again that fatigue I
was speaking to you earlier. Masddon, I tried. Producer Mike
really enjoys Mastadon. Masddon just doesn't feel weird enough for me.
I kind of need a little bit of like a
little bit of freaky d he in my social media platforms.
(18:27):
I need to be like, there are weirdos here doing
Weirdoh shit, that's what I think makes is the secret
sauce of social media platforms. Mastadon. It's like smart people
having smart conversations. But like, no, as far as I know,
nobody is like getting weird. Maybe that's there and I
haven't seen it, and I haven't really used it a ton,
So if it's there, let me know. Threads I feel
(18:48):
is similar, Yeah, Threads. Every time I open Threads, it
is just people that I like, like podcast people, creative people,
people who make things, journalists, whatever, media folks kind of
bemoaning rightly so, but bemoaning the state of media right now.
And I'm depressed as enough as it is. It's like,
I don't like opening my social media platform and being
(19:11):
reminded of all the stuff I'm not doing and need
to be doing in the ways that I'm falling behind
in like digitally marketing myself. And I think that on Threads,
I feel like the people who are really showing up
and showing out on Threads are the people who are like,
I need to use this platform to like, grow my platform,
grow my own brand, grow my platform, which I get
(19:33):
and respect, but I don't know. Part of why I
use social media is just for fun, for shits and giggles,
And something about thread just makes me feel this reminds
me of all the ways that I'm not setting up
the sub stack or not doing the things I should do.
It's just a space where I think folks feel really
concerned about, you know, using platforms for their own brand.
(19:56):
Blue Sky. When I first got it, it was sort
of like memes and jokes and people like it kind
of felt like the early days of social media. But
I haven't really used it enough to really say what
it's like now.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, I it'll be interesting to see what happens with it.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I feel like I've had, yeah, the same experience with Threads,
where it feels so corporate, it feels so like so
much of what I'm saying is like brands, and it
almost kind of feels like the like cleaned up version
of what's happening on Twitter right now, where I'm getting
a lot of tweets stuff that I don't care about,
but instead of like Twitter just being like off the rails,
(20:32):
weird stuff like Threads is just the most like mild
centrist middle of the line, but also still weird and
like kind of offensive stuff going around. It feels like
I which, yeah, they're definitely like it's the same thing
what you said about like Massa not not really having
that like weird space.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Like I feel like Threads.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Doesn't have that either, But it doesn't even have like
the people having.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Nice interesting conversations too.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It's just like, I don't know, just very corporate, very
brand friendly.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes, I feel the exact same way. It's like weirdly
offensive but somehow also boring at the same time. It's
like this is not even engaging but also weirdly I
feel a little offended by it. Right, So we're actually
going to be speaking on the podcast with someone from
Blue Sky very soon, So if you want to try
it out, now is a good time to do that.
(21:26):
And if you use a blue Sky and have questions
for senior folks there, let me know and I will
ask them when we have them on the podcast. And
in the meantime, you can follow me on blue Sky
where I am bridget Todd first name, last name, because
I was an early adopter so I got the like
first name, last name, but follow me there. I don't
post a goddamn thing, but if you want to follow
(21:48):
me you can.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
You know what, maybe I'll make mine after this The
next step sod all be I'll have a blue sky.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
To yes for everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Follow Joey on Blue Sky Name TVD. Yeah, let's take
a quick break at our back. Okay, So we talked
(22:25):
before about how people are using AI to manipulate women's
images to make them appear undressed. We talked about that
Taylor Swift deep fakes. We've talked about deep fakes to
make women it look nude or look like they're in
sexual situations. Well, now we have people who are using
that same AI technology to add clothing to women who
want to appear undressed in online images. And it really
(22:48):
all boils down to the same thing, people using tech
to take away someone's agency in terms of how they
want to present themselves online. So Dignify ai is a
social media count that has almost three thousand followers where
they use AI to put clothes on to women's images
online and cover them up. So what the account will
(23:09):
do will be like directly applying to women who who
post pictures of themselves in like bikinis or whatever, and
they will post pictures of them in various stages of
undress that these women have voluntarily put online, next to
images that they have used AI to manipulate and edited
them to look more modest and covered up. They will
(23:29):
usually have some kind of a mocking caption that's like
keep your dignity or here, I used AI to give
you your dignity back. So in case someone is thinking like, oh, well,
maybe they're doing this legitimately because they want to empower
women somehow, like maybe they think like, oh, this is
really like I'm really like doing the right thing here.
It is pretty clearly done as a troll. Media Matters
(23:53):
reported that folks who were posting these kind of images
were saying things like, quote AI porn makes them angry,
but use AI to clothe them, remove their tattoos and piercings.
The seething will echo through the ages. Media Matters reports
at that same user then said that it would be
mimetic perfection and likened it to the four Chance campaigns.
(24:14):
Islam is right about women and it's okay to be white.
So this is not done for any kind of like,
I mean, even if even if these people were thinking like, oh,
we're like supporting and empowering the women, that would still
be no good. But these people are pretty clearly just
trying to shame women who put their images out onto
the internet.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, that's so gross first of all.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Second of all, how big of a loser do you
have to be, like photoshop clothing back on to somebody, Like,
I don't know, that's so stupid.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
It is already so like demeaning and I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
It's the whole thing about, Yeah, you can't be anything
if you're a woman, you're wearing too much clothes or
too little clothes or whatever. You're getting your clothes foot
to shopped off you were on you but already Yeah,
like damn, that's so weird.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, and that's that's like you really nailed it. It's like,
if you are modestly dressed online, they will use AI
and technology to make you appear undressed. If you're like, okay,
I want to be not really dressed online, they will
use technology to make you appear more dressed. It's like,
the point it doesn't matter how you show up online.
(25:28):
The point is they should be the ones deciding how
you show up online, not you. It's like, like this
whole thing about giving women dignity. Not only is that
obviously meant to be a troll, but it's not about
that at all. It is about control and humiliation and
shame and using technology to strip the agency away from people.
Like that's like clearly what it's about.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, Like and just to be clear, like what if
yeah if that's if you find it empowering to be
more modest or to dress more modest modestly.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Like all power to you.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Love that like them in and people should be able
to wear whatever they want, you know, like I'll support
that idea, but yeah, it is it's it's so it's
so weird and like gross and it the at the
end of the day, it's about being.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Able to control women's bodies.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It's not about what's empowering to them or what's dignifying
to them.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It's about you being able to say what they're wearing exactly.
It is about taking away control and agency. Like if
you want to dress modestly or not dress modestly, the
point is it should be up to you, not a
bunch of chuds on four chand who are using AI
to strip you of that choice, and I think it's
telling that they're not just putting clothes on them, they're
(26:41):
removing their tattoos and piercings and changing their hair color.
So obviously this is not just about how they choose
to dress, it is how they choose to present themselves physically.
Right wing online provocateur Ian Miles Cheong wrote, when given
pictures of thirst traps, AI imagines what could have been
if they had been raised by strong fathers. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, Also, you know that those.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Like dresses are probably like super ugly, like let's be rid, Yes,
probably put in the ugliest outfits where it's like nobody
would wear this to begin with.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, that's so weird.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
So NBC talked to Isla David, a sex worker and
sex educator who is one of the women who somebody
used AI to make her appear more modest, and she
really nails the way this conversation is really not about sex,
it is about using technology to humiliate and shame women.
She said, it does not matter whether you're a woman
like Taylor Swift who is denying access to her nude
(27:39):
body or someone like me who is offering access to
my nude body. It is a tool to ensure that
women never retain soul autonomy over our body and images online.
She also goes further to say that she thinks that
these images really fit into the current tread wife social
media trend and that these guys are using AI to
turn her into this kind of fac modest woman who
(28:02):
is a traditional wife who dresses modestly and has kids
around her. But that's not who she is, and they're
using technology to sort of be like, oh, well, this
is what she would look like if she had made
better choices. NBC spoke to mike's Stable, the director of
public affairs for the Free Speech Coalition, which which is
an organization that lobbies on behalf of the adult industry,
who said, this is about controlling representations of women in society.
(28:25):
It's that ultimately women cannot be trusted to make their
own decisions about whether or take off their clothes, get tattoos,
or put on clothes. It's infantilization and ultimately, these men
by and large are going to make the decision. If
you don't want to do it, at least in their world,
they're going to change that. And I do think that
this is sort of grounded in this attitude that women
are not capable of, or do not deserve, control over
(28:49):
our bodies and the decisions that we make for ourselves.
And so you know, all that is to say, we've
been talking a lot about deep stakes and AI and
the intersections of identity, but really AI and deep THINKES
is a is a tool. What this is really about
is this pervasive attitude that marginalized people we don't deserve
(29:10):
to control our own our own choices, and our own bodies,
and the way that this technology is being used to
further that attitude.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, absolutely, it is. It's it's so like weird and gross.
I don't know, I'm so stuck at it.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
There's something so particularly I hate I hate that he
that late earlier you mentioned that one of them, like
in this four Chane Threads said something about like, oh,
people are more mad about you removing the tattoos and
making them more modest than they are about leaking their nudes.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
But in a weird way.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It almost is kind of like it's not grosser obviously
like leaking or like fake nudes or like that's terrible,
it's gross, but it's like it's so weird to be
putting to Yeah, like to be not just like hyper
sexualizing somebody, but putting them into this mold of who
you think they should be based on like gendered expectations,
and like, yeah, there's this weird like we're in such
(30:03):
a weird moment right now too, which I was just
on stuff Mom never told you talking about some of
the sort of like treads on TikTok right now around
girlhood and like womanhood. But we're in such a weird
point where there has been a really really strong, like
kind of resurgence to like in resurgence of like pressure
to go into these very gender and very highly gendered
(30:26):
molds and very you know, particularly for women.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Like there's this this.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
This return of like the trad wife is kind of
it's you know, everybody obviously like kind of knows the
trad wife is like the most extreme, but there's been
all these weird sort of pressures for women to like
become more feminine and present more feminine, and it just
this just feels like another manifestation of that that's so
weird and creepy and the meaning and not not great
(30:55):
for like the future to come, I guess.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, And if you who there is nothing wrong with
me and a girly girl. I would necessarily consider myself
a girly girl, but like, if that's what you want
to do, you should do that, and that's I like, Yes, However,
I do think that you're right. There is something I
think there we're experiencing something that's like if you aren't
like obviously it's better if you don't have tattoos, have
(31:20):
your natural hair color, or modestly dressed, have kids around you.
And even if that's even if that's not the choice
that you have made for yourself in your life, someone
out there is going to use technology to give the
world a window into what it would look like if
you had made this choice that we all know is better,
you know, And I do think there's something we're just
I don't know. I can't wait to listen to your
(31:41):
episode on stuff Mom Never told You, because there is
I do think there's something going on with feminine like
hyper feminine accessories and bows and like, I don't know something.
I think we're in an interesting moment and I can't
wait to hear your takes on stuff I'm Ever told you.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Thank you, I have been.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
There is a point of the episode where I try
to explain what Coquette is too.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I'm really badly trying.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
To explain what Coquette is to Samantha, But I definitely
kind of go back onto a whole episode about Cocatt
because the same like all, if that is what like
the kind of aesthetics and like fashion you're into, love
that for you, Like a lot of that stuff is
really cool and really cute. That being said, whatever, it's
a like pressure to put this onto other people. I
am not a feminine person at all. That is just
(32:25):
not a way that I'm comfortable presenting. If somebody were
to take a photo of me and like photoshop my
hair longer and like a dress.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Like that's gross. That is so weird and gross. And yeah,
it's just everything is weird. There's genders weird, gender is weird.
I think we should just not police each other's genders.
That would be really nice.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, and certainly not policing it via AI deep
fakes of strangers, because that's just weird. Let's let's not
do it. Stop doing that. It's gross. It's weird. It's
not the like epic troll you think it is. It
just makes you look really weird. So if You're like,
that's not that anybody who does that is listening.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
This is like the male version of like, oh my god,
I could save her, I could fix her, I can
remove her tattoos.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
He's like, AI more after a quick break, let's get
right back into it. Okay, speaking of creepy growth guys
(33:39):
and technology, is there something you want to ask me, Joey?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Uh yeah, Bridget what has Elon jone?
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Now? Well, Elon has doing a couple of things. First,
he is funding actor Gina Carreno from The Mandalorian. He's
funding her lawsuit. So remember way back when when Elon
Musk was like, anybody who faces repercussions for things they
say on Twitter, I will pay for their legal I
will pay for their legal defense. There is no limit.
(34:09):
I gotta eat crow on this one. Because people who
listen to this show regularly know that whenever there is
a financial promise being made from Elon Musk, I'm always like,
he's not gonna do it. Don't take that deal. He's
not gonna do it. But apparently he is making good
on that promise because he's funding Gina's lawsuit against Disney
from after she aspired from the Mandalorian.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
But he's doing it for this, Does this mean he's
gonna do it for every single lawsuit?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I don't know. Still, I still think you have.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Some some truth there with I mean, maybe not the
most like there are.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I mean there are plenty of people who have
been who have been like let go from their jobs
for speaking up for Palestine or drug like. I would
be curious to know where this begins and ends with
Elon Musk, like you, Joey, I suspect that he might
do this one time and then make a big show
of this if he pays. Lawsuits are expensive, they involve
(35:06):
lots of recurring bills. So I mean, I'm basically saying like,
it wouldn't surprise me if he's like, I'll pay one bill,
but I'm not paying all the bills. We will see, however,
I bet that this will not be a recurring thing.
That he will not take up the cause of anybody
who faces repercussions for what they post on Twitter. So
did you watch The Mandalorian at all?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I did. I have not.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Watched the most recent season because I heard it wasn't
very good, but I watched the first two.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, this whole thing was weird.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
So basically she was let go from The Mandalorian after
tweeting some like conspiracy theory kind of vibes. So what
does she tweet exactly? I would say it's kind of
your garden variety takes, Like she tweeted Jeff Epstein didn't
kill himself. Of course, Also remember this was in twenty twenty.
It just the vibes were like very people had a lot.
(36:00):
There was a lot going on in twenty twenty. I
guess I'll just say that. And so this was back
when Yeah, I don't I don't know if you remember.
I mean, I joke, but I literally had to like
going back to that mentally. I was like, oh, yeah,
that did happen. Oh yeah, that did happen. Like in
a lot of ways, I feel like I've blocked a
lot of that out and so yes, and so this
(36:22):
was back when like people were acting like being asked
to wear a mask was the biggest civil rights violation
of our time. And so I think she'd had a
tweet where I guess she was comparing like people who
didn't want to wear masks to Jewish people during the Holocaus.
She tweeted most people today don't realize that to get
to the point where Nazi shouldiers could easily round up
thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors
(36:45):
hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any
different from hating someone for their political views? So that
was a tweet. This one, I think is pretty funny.
She tweeted a picture of two men wearing masks over
their eyes with the cab. Democratic government leaders now recommend
we all wear blindfolds along with masks so we can't
(37:06):
see what's really going on. I gotta say, when I
was like eighteen, I might have snuck a retweet on
that one like that that would have spoken to young
me like, yeah, they don't want us to see the truth.
They want us in blindfolds. And then I have a
drawn anarchy symbol on my notebooks.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Oh my god, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
There's something very like that's.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
The most I've met one of many annoying, horrible things
about this. It's like sometimes these like weird orating people
will say stuff that it's.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Like, oh, that is kind of funny. I can't do it,
Like you're crazy, but that's all right.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I completely agree, Like, oh, I'll oh, this is like
y'all know, I have my problematic thaves. Whoever was the
first person to come up with chillery Kilton and then
the s is a dollar time. I'm gonna give it
to you on that one. I was like that one,
that's it's it's not like I like no, but like
(38:08):
it was clever. I see what you did there. Like
sometimes they sometimes they come up with these turns of
phrases and some are better than others. Because I remember
in two thousand and eight it was oh bummer and
I was like, oh, that one you could have like
workshopped that one a little better, like that didn't have.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
The yeah, like thanks Obama, that was a good one,
Like yeah, respond with like thanks Obama.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Thanks bomba.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Sometimes when you know when you're right here. Yeah, that
one didn't hit. I'm gonna give that a two out
of ten on that one. So she was really not
into the time. In twenty twenty when there was restrictions
on people gathering, she tweeted, open up your businesses in
churches because people are dropping like flies from depression and
suicide overdoses, murder all caps. Her tweets about the twenty
(38:57):
twenty election are very interesting to me, she tweet. We
need to clean up the election process so that we're
not left feeling the way we do today. Put laws
in place that protect us against voter fraud, investigate every state,
film the counting, flush out fake votes, require ID make
voter fraud end in twenty twenty, fix the system. So
that might all sound reasonable on the surface, but we
(39:21):
saw so much of that sentiment after the election, because
like you had people like Evanka Trump being like, oh,
count every legal vote, which again sounds reasonable, but it
gives the impression as if there is widespread voter fraud
and voting irregularities, which just is not happening. It's never happened.
It's not a thing. But when you say, like, I
just think we should count every legal vote. I just
(39:43):
think that we should make sure that you know we're
not counting fake votes. It really it's like a tricky
way of sowing distrust in our voting process, because that's
like not there aren't widespread voting irregularities, and so when
you adopt this lang which that makes it seem like
there are, it's a very sly way of just kind
(40:05):
of like chipping away at people's confidence in our democratic process.
So this last one is also really interesting to me.
She tweeted, I'm not against trans lives at all. They
need to find less abusive representation. And so when she
tweeted that, there was some back and forth on Twitter
where basically it seemed like what she was saying was like,
I don't have a problem with trans people. No, no, no, no,
(40:25):
I'm I'm out of trans phobe. I just think there's
spokespeople are very mean. Like that seemed to be like
what she was trying to get at.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Wait, I see these were finally adjusting the real problems
in this episodes, the mean trans people and the mean
lesbians that are kicking the straight people out of lesbian
bars and star wars.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Very mean, very rude. Did not care for your tone.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, I remember like all of this going down, because yeah,
I think like at the time the Mandaloriin was still
like a really big show, and I remember all this
going down, and it was like one thing after another
room it was like like come on, like you're also
like you're so I don't Yeah, yeah, it was it
was like what are the most despicable but also just
(41:10):
like stupid takes.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I can take.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, So I actually think that that's exactly what happened here.
Like I have no inside information from Disney or Lucasfilms
or whatever, but I bet that when you are a
very much a supporting actor in a piece, I bet
that they were just like, this is not worth a headache.
After a while, like thing after thing after thing after
a thing, I can imagine they're just like, we gotta
(41:35):
get rid of this person because they are just like
going rogue on Twitter and we can't have it. Like
I could see if it was just one or two tweets,
but like I can understand why this was not something
Disney was thrilled about getting brought into or mired into,
and were just like, oh, it's easier just to just
to not recast her. So, according to The Hollywood Reporter,
(41:56):
the complaint that she filed and a California federal court
alleges that she was fired for voicing right being opinions
on social media and seeks a court order that would
force Lucasfilms to recast her in The Mandalorian. According to
the complaint, Disney and Lucasfilms harassed and defamed her for
refusing to conform with their viewpoints on issues relating to
Black Lives Matter pronouns, and disproven claims of election interference.
(42:20):
While she was allegedly fired for her cultural and religious beliefs,
she argues that the entertainment giant turned a blind eye
to her male co stars who allegedly made offensive comments
directed toward Republicans. She points to Pedro Pascal's twenty seventeen
post comparing Donald Trump to Hitler, so when she says
that she has a gender discrimination complaint, she's saying that, like, oh,
they did this because I was a woman. Pedro Pascal
(42:43):
can compare Trump to Hitler, but I can't like say
my conspiracy theories without being fired. I will say. The
suit does kind of make it seem like Disney gave
her a few outs. The suit says that Disney required
her to meet with a representative from the Gay and
Lesbian Alliance Against Discrimination and demanded a public apology. She refused,
(43:05):
and after she refused, she was told to meet with
Lucasfilm's president, Kathleen Kennedy and forty five employees who identify
as LGBTQ plus. According to the suit, she declined and
was terminated shortly thereafter from The Mandalorian, as well as
other titles in the Star Wars universe, including Rangers of
the New Republic. So it kind of sounds like that
tweet that she made about trans people meeting better representation
(43:29):
or whatever, it sounds like maybe that was like a
real sticking point with Disney because they were like, oh,
you need to meet with Glad, you need to meet
with LGBTQ folks, and she declined. And she says that
because Disney terminated her, that was the impetus for Uta
and her lawyer both dropping her as a client, which
to me is kind of It does kind of seem like,
you know, if you tweet some spicy takes and then
(43:51):
your lawyer and your agent are like, we don't want
to be associated with this. That's not I'm not a lawyer,
but I don't see how that Disney's fault. You're the
one who said it, Like, I don't kind of get
it right.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Yeah, it's also always weird that she's the argument she's
making is it's her culture. She was fired for her
cultural and religious beliefs, Like.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah, I guess that's the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Is like weird break wing Christian like people are saying
that like homophobian transphobia is whatever, it's a part of
our religious police. But it's like what like being I
don't know that's it just feels like that feels like
such a stretch of cultural and religious beliefs, especially if
you're saying the like cultural and like the equivalent of
that is like Petro Piscoal making fun of Donald Trump. Like,
(44:36):
I don't know, that's such a stretch. I also cannot
emphasize this like enough. She played like a tiny role
as like a space cop in Star Wars. And this
was also around the time when like the Mandalorian was
doing really good, so they had announced like a ton
of new TV shows, half of which have already been canceled.
(44:58):
So it's like, I don't know, like I feel like
one of those things where it's like I don't necessarily
think her career was like headed in a really like
you know, prestigious direction if it weren't for all of it,
Like it is like kind of I don't know, it
feels like this is a really convenient opportunity for her
to stay relevant. Is I guess maybe where I'm going
(45:21):
with this, But yeah, this whole thing is so weird.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Joey, are you suggesting this is a stunt?
Speaker 2 (45:27):
What?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Absolutely not?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
What she's like besties with Ben Shapiro too? What?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I know? It's bad. So Twitter can't figure out how
to keep deep fakes off their platform, but they've got
time for this. And in case you're curious, what else
Elon Musk has been up to you so ironically, while
he's been funding Gina Carano's sexual harassment suit against Disney,
Elon Musk himself is simultaneously being hit with yet another
(45:56):
sexual harassment lawsuit. Let's talk about it. So, I know,
so surprise. Who could have ever seen a coming? It
might shock y'all to know this, but Elon Musk's company
SpaceX has a frat boy atmosphere filled with crude sexual
jokes and gender base harassment. This is according to a
new lawsuit filed by a group of former employees in
(46:17):
a civil rights complaint. So we all, like, if you
follow Elon Musk on Twitter or like, have ever seen
his tweets reteted into your timeline, you probably already know
that he loves to make bad like sex jokes, bad
jokes about women, and former employees say that they were
illegally retaliated against by being fired for calling him out
on it. According to a report in the new complaint
(46:39):
to the California Civil Rights Department and in interviews, the
seven former employees say that SpaceX executives routinely dismissed their
concerns or harass them by excluding them from meetings, promoting
colleagues above them, and joking about a sexual harassment accusation
against Musk. So folks might remember that Elon Musk was
accused of sexually harassing a flight attended on one of
(47:00):
his flights, And it sounds like an HR person at
SpaceX was laughing and joking about that and being like, oh,
I've never had a problem with that. I guess I'm
not hot enough. Ha ha ha ha ha. So Paige
Hollin Theelen, one of the complainants, says, I was left
out of so many meetings that I was supposed to
be in. I was left out of so many decisions
that were mine to make. I was forgotten on projects.
(47:23):
I was forgotten and planning. She says that in twenty
eighteen she was hired at SpaceX as a basic level engineer,
below her male colleagues, given seniority despite a similar level
of qualifications and experience. Bringing things to light is the
first step of actually making them better, she said. And
she says that when she complained about this to her
higher ups at SpaceX, they said that she was being
too emotional, and that when she complained that a male
(47:45):
colleague was taking credit for her work, they told her
that she should be more humble. Another thing that's interesting
here is that she alleges that the jokes, like the
gendered sexual jokes that Elon Musk would make basically took
center stage at space She says, basically anything that would
make a freshman frat and the sit laugh was fair
game in large parts of the company. And so yeah,
(48:07):
the fact that like one of the things that they
were senior employees were joking about were Elon's stupid jokes
and antics just shows that, like, this is a top
down problem, Like the problem the rot starts at the top.
If you can't even talk about the comments that your boss, boss,
tippy top boss is making without getting slapped with a
gender harassment lawsuit, the problem starts at the top.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Yeah, that's interesting because I always wondered, like all of
this weird, like Elon Musk obviously has like a terrible
sense of humor, Like you could tell from his tweets
that he has a horrible sense of humor. Like, so
the people around him like also feel like that, Like
did they encourage that or like I don't know, it's
always like it feels like it would suck to be
in a meeting with this dude. But yeah, I guess
(48:50):
that makes sense that they all are probably in the
same like brain set, mindset, you know that is that's yeah,
like not surprising unfortunately, but also like so gross to
have to navigate.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Elon Wants joked that he was going to start a
new educational facility called the Texas Institute of Technology and
Science com t I t S or tits. So that's
the whole joke is that it spells out tits.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
You gotta that's not even like.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
It's like I mean calling that like freshman frat jokes
is like that's that's even too low for that, like
out of come.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
On, Yeah, this is this is a grown man. He
has children.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
He is a grown man, a father of lots of kids,
and he is still thinks it's thinks the word tits
is hilarious. Thanks spelling out the word. It's like it's
like it reminds me of when I was teaching like
second graders and they would all find the dictionary and
look up the word sex and just thought it was
so funny. It is like it is like calling yeah
(49:58):
freshman frat is like way too generous for the level
that this this kind of humor is.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
And like a college radio show that I worked on
that the acronym for it ended up being tits. But
it was like like we all thought it was fun
We were like well, like our group chat for each other,
like it was all like, but that was it, Like
that was the farthest the joke wet because you know,
hah it says tits, that's funny, but like I don't know,
that's not.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I just it's what a weird What a weird dude?
I think I would be.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
So it would be so infuriating working at one of
these companies, obviously because of the terrible environment, but also
can you imagine like having that be like this down
like being the funniest person in the office, but like
nobody else acknowledging it because this is the type of
humor that they have, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
So.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
This is something I have always thought about Elon Musk
is that he has billions of dollars, He's politically connected,
he has anything that he could want. He could have,
except he he really wants people to think he is funny.
I think that is why one of the reasons why
he bought Twitter, why he has, you know, tweaked the
algorithm so that his tweets get more views and more engagement.
(51:12):
I think that he desperately needs to be thought of
as funny and charming. He desperately wants people to like him.
And it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or a chillionaire.
You can't buy that like you can't. You can't. I'm
sure that in your little bubble that is your boardroom
or whatever, you can force people to laugh at your
tits jokes, But if you're not funny in real life,
(51:35):
you can't force people to think that you're funny. And
I think that's really something that's important to him. And
from all the research I've done on Elon Musk, he
is somebody who loves to surround himself with sycophants. I
could imagine having to be a sycophant and like be like,
be a yes person to my boss's terrible ideas, having
to fake laugh at jokes that are not funny. I
(51:57):
would have to draw the line. I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Oh, Bridget, I'm sorry. This is where I've got to
tell you that you, oh the last of the Joey.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
No, no, I couldn't. I this is it's so annoying.
He's such a like clown of a man. But it's
it's so like, it's such a sad It's so sad.
It is so sad. This man just wants to be
seen as funny and charming, so bad that like he's
tanking the entire world to get to that and still not.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
I don't know. That's some weird, weird stuff.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
I will quote one of my favorite New York based poets,
Countess Luandela SEPs money can't buy a class. Joey, thank
you for always having so much class and talking to
these news stories with me. You were talking about the
episode that you did on the podcast stuff I've never
told you about Girlhood and TikTok. It's done the fascinating
(53:05):
How can folks listen?
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Of course you can check out that episode. It's called
TikTok's Crisis of Femininity. It would have come out February seventh.
We can put it in the notes that people are
interested in. But it is just kind of overall about
all of the weird conversations. It was basically what started
with me trying to write an episode about girl dinner
(53:28):
and girl math and all of those things, and then
spiraled it to me talking about all of the weird
conversations about girlhood that are happening on TikTok, and we
go from trad wives to all the different aesthetic trends
and you know, lots of fun stuff girl dinner, girl hobbies.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Girl math math.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
You know, you get trying to take critical look.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Do you get into like because the aesthetics, it's something
that I It changes so quickly, and it's like I
thought we were doing there, supposed to be doing clean girl,
and now we're doing mob life. Like I can't, who
can keep up?
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Yeah, well, it's it's crazy because that's the whole thing
about it, isn't it goes so quick. It changes so quick.
I talk about it in the episode which Rigid. I'm
sure you could resonate with this. It's it's interesting because
the whole idea of having an aesthetic, and like an
online aesthetic, like is something that has always been a
big part of online culture and like was a really
(54:25):
big part of like Tumbler and all that. And it's
been interesting with TikTok it's really just become like, instead
of being about personal style, it's turned into like the
latest fast fashion trend and how some of those trends
have been really really you know, staked in this idea
of girlhood and womanhood and femininity and there's some.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Sort of strange messages about consumerism and all.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
That there that I get into in the episode if
you're interested in hearing more about that, and just kind
of trying to take a critical look at some of
the messages around femininity and girlhood that are you know,
circulating on TikTok right now, and how a lot of
(55:12):
that ties into consumerism and some sort of more concerning
trends on a political level we're seeing with like the
gender binary being very strictly enforced.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
And all of that. So, you know, fun, fun, light stuff,
but yeah, check that, check an episode out.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
As always, do you want to hear more of my work,
you can also check out Afterlives, the Leali and Flanco story,
follow me and all the social media's maybe blue Sky soon.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Who's to say?
Speaker 3 (55:42):
At pat dot Pratt, that's Patt n otcr Att.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Thank you so much for being here and thanks to
all of you for listening. I will see you on
the Internet. If you're looking for ways to support the show,
check out our workstore at tenggodi slash store. Got a
story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want
to say hi, You can reach us at Hello at
tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's
(56:09):
episode at tenggody dot com. There Are No Girls on
the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a
production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey Pat
Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our
producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer.
I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help
us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For
(56:30):
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production
of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
is there Are No Girls on the Internet. Joeye, welcome
back to the show. I am so happy that you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, Bridget, it's great to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So I'll just jump right into it in lieu of banter.
I have been dying to get your thoughts on something.
Did you see that viral TikTok and the responses to
it about the straight sis woman who went to a
lesbian bar in Brooklyn with her straight sis male friend
(00:43):
and it sounds like maybe the friend was asked to leave.
She made a TikTok about it. Do you know what
I'm talking about?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I did, Yes, I did watch the original video and
the follow up and all of.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
The various commentaries.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So many follow ups.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
There were so many follow ups. So the bar in
question actually was not in Brooklyn. It's Cubby Hole, which
is in the West Village of Manhattan. I actually have
never been there. A big reason why I have not
been there is because it's tiny.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Like it is a like, and that is something that
a lot of the.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Kind of commentary on this pointed out as the fact
that cubby Hole is like it's it's tiny, it's probably
like literally like the size of my apartment. But yeah,
this has been all over my TikTok. I could spend
the entire episode talking about it. But yeah, no, it
was weird. I you know, I feel like this has been.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
A good reminder that straight women.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Sometimes can be just as bad as straight this men
in terms of just like absolutely missing the whole situation.
I just I don't know my favorite respont so this
whole thing so far was like like being like, hey,
why do you want to be in the lesbian bar
to begin with?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Like it's a lesbian bar, Like what are you?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
What are you gonna do? Like that's such a good
point one of the one of the TikTok responses, and
something something about this TikTok really got people talking, so
if folks, so, just to give a little bit more context,
the woman who makes the TikTok is one of those
tiktoks where she's doing a story time doing her makeup,
and she's explaining how at a night out at cubby Hole,
(02:32):
someone that she sort of describes as like a mean
lesbian comes up to her friend that is like who,
why are you here? Who are you with? And she's like, oh,
he's with me. And as a straight person in a
lesbian bar, it's a little bit much to be like,
oh he's with me. I'm someone's guest and I have
a guest. And so basically she's like, is this a
(02:53):
new thing where you're not allowed to be in the
lesbian bar if you are straight?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
She specifically says like, is there a rule like ye, school,
and it's like, no, there's no rule.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That you can't go to a gay bar if you're straight.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
It's just there's also no rule that people aren't gonna
be like why are you here?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Like yes. So the response that I saw that really
made me think, well, one, I've never been in the
cubby hole either, but seeing how small it is, I
was like, Okay, I can kind of get a sense
of like maybe what was going on. Also, that woman
who made the first TikTok, she was like, oh there
were other men there, you know, like he wasn't the
(03:34):
only man there, And so part of me was like
nobody was walking up to those people and being like
you're straight, what are you doing here? How did someone
like I just have a hard time believing that somebody
just singled this guy out knew that he was straight,
walked up to him and was like, what are you
doing here? I feel like something about his behavior, something
about what they were doing, must have at least at
(03:55):
the very at the very baseline, have been obnoxious, Like
in a small space.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, exactly did you?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Did you see the follow up from the woman who
was the lesbian in the video or that was being
talked about, She made a follow up and she was
like she was just kind of like, yeah, I was
like trying to find the bat well. I think she
was like trying to find the line for the bathroom,
and this dude was in the way, and she asked
him if he could like move or like, I don't know,
like he just it sounds like apparently he was just
(04:22):
acting sort of weird about it. He was being sort
of a dick about it, and she was kind of like, oh, well,
like are you here with anybody? Like are you here
with friends? And he immediately was like, oh well would
it would it be okay? It would it not be
okay if I wasn't here with anybody?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Was like, I don't what is up with straight people?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
And like straight CIS men specifically like making up fake
scenarios where they're being attacked. Like literally nobody he was
the one to be like, oh, it wouldn't be not okay,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, man, I like weird it was.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
It was good at least to see how quickly I
think people jumped to defend the uh supposed me and
lesbian in the video and you know, actually address the
fact that a lot of the stuff that the original
video said were like weirdly homophobic, and even the out
the comment about like oh there were all these like
(05:16):
flamboyant gay men there and.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, I don't know, and once again like it's a
tiny bar, it's a spaceport.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well this is the bigger issue.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
And I think the reason this like really blew up
and like resonated with a lot a lot of people
right now is because like there is a tiny number
of like lesbian bars that are actually operating in the US.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I looked up, only twenty three lesbian bars exist in
the United States.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, and like you know, this is in the West Village,
which is like where Stonewall is. It's like was the
big gay neighborhood for a while in New York now.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It really is anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
But there's all these like really important historic gay bars,
and in terms of lesbian bars, it's kind of just
like Henrietta's and Cupyhole and that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And again Cupyhole is.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
A tiny space that is like the reason these bars
exist is because you know, queer people were excluded from
or you know the whole, well, the whole like cis
straight woman. Argument is like, oh, well, I just feel
more comfortable and like gay bars that I do in
straight bar. But then it's like, how do you think
gay people feel?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Like it is a whole other level. Yeah, which it's
so like these these spaces exist for a reason. They
exist because they're responding.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
To the fact that queer people were excluded from straight spaces.
And it's so weird now to be seeing straight people
be so up in arms about it. Like imagine scenario
when they're being told they can't go into the spaces
that were created because they excluded.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Us from other spaces, Like it's weird.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, it's basically like like you can't be in our space, Okay,
we'll make our own space. I want in that space.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Right, Look, I know, like queer women are cool now, like.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
But.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Please like just give up. This is like we have
so little that is just for I don't know, and
even I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
There was another TikTok I saw with the whole comment
about like, oh well, there were all these gay men there,
that was like, hey, it's like weird, how like how
do you know they're gay men?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Also, it's like, yeah, it's a gay bar. There's gay
men at the gay bar.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
There's gay women that cod to gay male bars that
they're like, I don't know. There's just a different like
kind of attitude about gender that straight people just like.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Do not even want to think about.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
What do you think? It has been a long time
since I've seen something that was regional specific, like happening
in one city, circulated in one bar, that got such
a big reaction from people who like, maybe you have
never even been to New York City. I've never been
to that bar. Do you think Do you think it's
the feeling of like feeling nationally like queer spaces are
(08:06):
being pushed out, and so this need to use online
platforms to loudly like say that and to like there's
like a chorus of people who are like actually this
is really messed up. Here's why do you think that's
what's going on and why it resonated so much.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I think it's like exactly that.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I think it's just, you know, whatever part of the
country you're in, you know, either your rights are actively
like being debated in your state government right now, or
being taken away from you, or yeah, you're briefly keep
if you're in a place like New York that's like
supposed to be more accepting, but these queer spaces are
(08:45):
becoming like few and far apart, and uh, there's been
more and more sort of co opting of those spaces
by straight folks, and I think, you know, I think that, Yeah,
it is like a big part of this is just
that it's part of this bigger trend of like these
spaces closing and going away, and then also the few
(09:09):
spaces we have left straight people coming into them and
only really coming in to sort of prove that they
can be there, which seems to be the biggest issue here. Like,
I don't know, that's just the thing that gets me
every time, is it's this whole like this whole conflict.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Ay, they kind of.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Made it, not made it up, but it was like
an imagined thing, like nobody was telling him he couldn't
be there. And then also it's like, but yeah, why
are you like so insistent on invading this ban, which
it's interesting, like what as somebody there was a one
of the videos that I saw like responding to this
was like talking about how you know, originally there was
all these like straight women that were coming to gay
(09:47):
bars because they were like you know, quote unquote felt
more safe there, and then would sometimes not all the times,
but like occasionally then you know, act in a way
that was making the gay patrons of the bar not
feel safe. And then also now it's happening is a
lot of like straight cis men are coming into gay
(10:08):
bars and are coming into gay male bars quote unquote
or like lesbian bars or whatever, because they're following these
like straight women that are going there. And now it's like, yeah,
like I've had the experience of being hit on by
sis straight men at a lesbian bar and is so infuriating.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
It's like is there nowhere where like heterosexuality doesn't have
to be centered like there's a gay bar.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Right And the stupidest thing about it is like these
are the same people that then are gonna come to
that and be like, oh, well, look do you how
do you do you know that I'm It's just people
know that fears Like nobody who's not a CIS man
would respond to that with like, oh well, look, how
did you know that I'm Like.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's so stupid. It's like.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
It's this like self victimization going into the spaces of
the people that you're actually oppressing, or like, you know,
have I've created these oppressive structures for Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Anyways, Yeah, clearly I have a lot of feelings about this.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
No I thought you would. I'm glad to get your takes.
I have a this might be a hot take. I
agree with everything that you've laid out. It makes so
much sense. I would also yes, and that and add
I think there was something about that original person, that
original woman's TikTok where it just sounded so smug and
(11:28):
like self assured. And let me just say this, Yeah,
if I had gone out to any kind of space
where someone came up to me and it became clear
that I was doing something that was making them uncomfortable,
it was making them feel some kind of a way
they didn't want me there. They were asking me questions
about you know why I was there. I don't think
after the fact I would I would make a video
that was like okay, so I made them uncomfortable, Like
(11:51):
you know what I'm saying. I was. I was surprised
how how comfortable she was taking the position of we've
done nothing wrong. He did nothing wrong. It's actually this big,
mean lesbian who's done something wrong. That was really I
think there's something about that that just like gets under it.
It's just kind of gets under people's skin. And maybe
(12:12):
that's one of the reasons why people are like, I
gotta sbit some facts for that.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
This one, well, it's I mean, she's like doing her
makeup in the video and look like look usually I
have not for like internet pilods people like whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Sometimes people do stupid things and make mistakes. In this case, yeah,
it's the like smugness of it.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And then she ended up like deleting it and making
an apology video and then later deleted the apology video.
But in the apology video, she's a still doing her makeup.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, she's doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
That's a whole thing, And she says it in the
same tone where she's like, I was just asking a
like question, Like I don't understand you were not just
asking a question. Like you cannot come in and like
spew homophobic kind of tropes and then expect people not
to get mad about that. You cannot go into a
queer space and like yeah, create like have that kind
(13:05):
of response and then be surprised when people react negatively
to you, you know, doing.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That, Yes, and let's be real, like there is a
tone of voice, like there is a way to convey
seriousness via a TikTok doing your makeup and being like, well,
I'm just asking questions. Everybody knows what you are trying
to convey. It is very clear what you're trying to convey.
I really don't like it when people make content like
(13:33):
that and then they try to they try to like
throw a rock and hide their hands. It's like, you
clearly made this video, you know, don't try to act
like you were just asking questions and you weren't trying
to be disrespectful or smug. Now, if that's how you feel,
that's how you feel. It's like a there's this thing
online that I see a lot where people will be
trying to convey a certain tone or a certain smugness
(13:55):
or a flippancy if that's a word. I don't know.
Check check that if that is or not. I don't know.
But and then when they're called on it, they're like, oh,
that's just I wasn't I didn't mean it that way.
I feel like she meant it how she meant it,
it was received the way that it was intended. And
the fact that she had to delete her apology video
as well. I don't know, I really it really tells
(14:17):
me something.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Right, like, that's not an apology. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I look, I think straight women, straight white women like
y'all can be just as homophobic as your straight boyfriends.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Like.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
But anyways, I could go on about this for the
whole episode.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Bridget. I'm sure you've got many more stories.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Let's get into it.
Let's start with Blue Sky. So Blue Sky, for folks
who don't know, is a Twitter alternative funded by Twitter
co founder Jack Dorsey. It used to be invite only,
and there was a time where people would be like, oh,
who has a Blue Sky invite? Like, who's got a code?
Who's got a code? Well, good news if you're interested
(15:01):
in checking it out. Blue Sky is now available to everyone.
So blue Sky, I've used it a bit. It's it
looks a lot. It looks and feels a lot like Twitter. However,
it is open source, so that means that there is
more transparency into how it is run because it is
open source. So tech Crunch had a piece that really
put this into perspective. Before opening to the public, Blue
(15:23):
Sky had about three million sign ups now that anybody
can join. Can Blue Sky meaningfully stand up to threads
is one hundred and thirty million monthly active users or
Mastodon's one point eight million active users. It is a
fair question. The answer is I don't know. TBD. However,
I I don't know. I think it's kind of exciting. Like,
(15:44):
on the one hand, I am definitely experiencing a kind
of like fatigue slash exhaustion in our current digital media
landscape where you know, I just feel like you're meant
to be everywhere, You're meant to be branding yourself everywhere
if you want to do anything at all, and the
(16:06):
you know, the landscape keep shifting beneath my feet, and
SOA's like, oh, here's how you succeed on Twitter here,
and then that changes, and then it's like, oh, here's
how you succeed on Instagram, and then that changes. And
I am feeling a little bit of fatigue of feeling
like I have to show up everywhere and not really
knowing how to do that, and feeling like that is
like tied to my success as a creative person. That's
(16:28):
a whole other conversation. However, I don't know. I'm choosing
to sort of be excited about Blue Sky opening up
to everybody. I am really challenging myself to use Twitter less.
I deleted it from my phone and that's really helped.
I don't think that showing up on Twitter is good
for me anymore, and so I'm excited about just having
(16:49):
a new platform. In the mix, Joey, have you ever
used a Blue Sky?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I have not yet.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
I also kind of had some men of like I
don't know, like round this was.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I came out when there were all these like Twitter
knock off platforms that were coming out, and I think
I've made.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
A mastered on account. I made an account for one
of them.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Honestly, I don't remember which app it was, which I
think is so telling of just like how much stuff
was coming out then I like, but yeah, I think
I'm also like, I haven't really used my Twitter much
in the past couple of months, kind of been switched
over to like TikTok and and and Instagram with that.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
But you know, this is good here.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I feel like Blue Skuy is one of the ones
that I like heard about early on and I still
care about. So maybe maybe it's maybe it's taking off.
Who's to say Threads has been disappointing.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
So you know, I'm really trying. I mean, if folks
are having experiences with new platforms, let me know how
those experiences are going. I've tried Threats, so I've tried Threads,
I've tried Spill. We had a senior leader from Spill
on the podcast a few months ago. She was great, like,
(18:05):
really made me excited for the platform. My not using
it a lot is not an indication that it's not
a good platform. It's just like again that fatigue I
was speaking to you earlier. Masddon, I tried. Producer Mike
really enjoys Mastadon. Masddon just doesn't feel weird enough for me.
I kind of need a little bit of like a
little bit of freaky d he in my social media platforms.
(18:27):
I need to be like, there are weirdos here doing
Weirdoh shit, that's what I think makes is the secret
sauce of social media platforms. Mastadon. It's like smart people
having smart conversations. But like, no, as far as I know,
nobody is like getting weird. Maybe that's there and I
haven't seen it, and I haven't really used it a ton,
So if it's there, let me know. Threads I feel
(18:48):
is similar, Yeah, Threads. Every time I open Threads, it
is just people that I like, like podcast people, creative people,
people who make things, journalists, whatever, media folks kind of
bemoaning rightly so, but bemoaning the state of media right now.
And I'm depressed as enough as it is. It's like,
I don't like opening my social media platform and being
(19:11):
reminded of all the stuff I'm not doing and need
to be doing in the ways that I'm falling behind
in like digitally marketing myself. And I think that on Threads,
I feel like the people who are really showing up
and showing out on Threads are the people who are like,
I need to use this platform to like, grow my platform,
grow my own brand, grow my platform, which I get
(19:33):
and respect, but I don't know. Part of why I
use social media is just for fun, for shits and giggles,
And something about thread just makes me feel this reminds
me of all the ways that I'm not setting up
the sub stack or not doing the things I should do.
It's just a space where I think folks feel really
concerned about, you know, using platforms for their own brand.
(19:56):
Blue Sky. When I first got it, it was sort
of like memes and jokes and people like it kind
of felt like the early days of social media. But
I haven't really used it enough to really say what
it's like now.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, I it'll be interesting to see what happens with it.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I feel like I've had, yeah, the same experience with Threads,
where it feels so corporate, it feels so like so
much of what I'm saying is like brands, and it
almost kind of feels like the like cleaned up version
of what's happening on Twitter right now, where I'm getting
a lot of tweets stuff that I don't care about,
but instead of like Twitter just being like off the rails,
(20:32):
weird stuff like Threads is just the most like mild
centrist middle of the line, but also still weird and
like kind of offensive stuff going around. It feels like
I which, yeah, they're definitely like it's the same thing
what you said about like Massa not not really having
that like weird space.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Like I feel like Threads.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Doesn't have that either, But it doesn't even have like
the people having.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Nice interesting conversations too.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It's just like, I don't know, just very corporate, very
brand friendly.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes, I feel the exact same way. It's like weirdly
offensive but somehow also boring at the same time. It's
like this is not even engaging but also weirdly I
feel a little offended by it. Right, So we're actually
going to be speaking on the podcast with someone from
Blue Sky very soon, So if you want to try
it out, now is a good time to do that.
(21:26):
And if you use a blue Sky and have questions
for senior folks there, let me know and I will
ask them when we have them on the podcast. And
in the meantime, you can follow me on blue Sky
where I am bridget Todd first name, last name, because
I was an early adopter so I got the like
first name, last name, but follow me there. I don't
post a goddamn thing, but if you want to follow
(21:48):
me you can.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
You know what, maybe I'll make mine after this The
next step sod all be I'll have a blue sky.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
To yes for everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Follow Joey on Blue Sky Name TVD. Yeah, let's take
a quick break at our back. Okay, So we talked
(22:25):
before about how people are using AI to manipulate women's
images to make them appear undressed. We talked about that
Taylor Swift deep fakes. We've talked about deep fakes to
make women it look nude or look like they're in
sexual situations. Well, now we have people who are using
that same AI technology to add clothing to women who
want to appear undressed in online images. And it really
(22:48):
all boils down to the same thing, people using tech
to take away someone's agency in terms of how they
want to present themselves online. So Dignify ai is a
social media count that has almost three thousand followers where
they use AI to put clothes on to women's images
online and cover them up. So what the account will
(23:09):
do will be like directly applying to women who who
post pictures of themselves in like bikinis or whatever, and
they will post pictures of them in various stages of
undress that these women have voluntarily put online, next to
images that they have used AI to manipulate and edited
them to look more modest and covered up. They will
(23:29):
usually have some kind of a mocking caption that's like
keep your dignity or here, I used AI to give
you your dignity back. So in case someone is thinking like, oh, well,
maybe they're doing this legitimately because they want to empower
women somehow, like maybe they think like, oh, this is
really like I'm really like doing the right thing here.
It is pretty clearly done as a troll. Media Matters
(23:53):
reported that folks who were posting these kind of images
were saying things like, quote AI porn makes them angry,
but use AI to clothe them, remove their tattoos and piercings.
The seething will echo through the ages. Media Matters reports
at that same user then said that it would be
mimetic perfection and likened it to the four Chance campaigns.
(24:14):
Islam is right about women and it's okay to be white.
So this is not done for any kind of like,
I mean, even if even if these people were thinking like, oh,
we're like supporting and empowering the women, that would still
be no good. But these people are pretty clearly just
trying to shame women who put their images out onto
the internet.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, that's so gross first of all.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Second of all, how big of a loser do you
have to be, like photoshop clothing back on to somebody, Like,
I don't know, that's so stupid.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
It is already so like demeaning and I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
It's the whole thing about, Yeah, you can't be anything
if you're a woman, you're wearing too much clothes or
too little clothes or whatever. You're getting your clothes foot
to shopped off you were on you but already Yeah,
like damn, that's so weird.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, and that's that's like you really nailed it. It's like,
if you are modestly dressed online, they will use AI
and technology to make you appear undressed. If you're like, okay,
I want to be not really dressed online, they will
use technology to make you appear more dressed. It's like,
the point it doesn't matter how you show up online.
(25:28):
The point is they should be the ones deciding how
you show up online, not you. It's like, like this
whole thing about giving women dignity. Not only is that
obviously meant to be a troll, but it's not about
that at all. It is about control and humiliation and
shame and using technology to strip the agency away from people.
Like that's like clearly what it's about.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, Like and just to be clear, like what if
yeah if that's if you find it empowering to be
more modest or to dress more modest modestly.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Like all power to you.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Love that like them in and people should be able
to wear whatever they want, you know, like I'll support
that idea, but yeah, it is it's it's so it's
so weird and like gross and it the at the
end of the day, it's about being.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Able to control women's bodies.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It's not about what's empowering to them or what's dignifying
to them.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It's about you being able to say what they're wearing exactly.
It is about taking away control and agency. Like if
you want to dress modestly or not dress modestly, the
point is it should be up to you, not a
bunch of chuds on four chand who are using AI
to strip you of that choice, and I think it's
telling that they're not just putting clothes on them, they're
(26:41):
removing their tattoos and piercings and changing their hair color.
So obviously this is not just about how they choose
to dress, it is how they choose to present themselves physically.
Right wing online provocateur Ian Miles Cheong wrote, when given
pictures of thirst traps, AI imagines what could have been
if they had been raised by strong fathers. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, Also, you know that those.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Like dresses are probably like super ugly, like let's be rid, Yes,
probably put in the ugliest outfits where it's like nobody
would wear this to begin with.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, that's so weird.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
So NBC talked to Isla David, a sex worker and
sex educator who is one of the women who somebody
used AI to make her appear more modest, and she
really nails the way this conversation is really not about sex,
it is about using technology to humiliate and shame women.
She said, it does not matter whether you're a woman
like Taylor Swift who is denying access to her nude
(27:39):
body or someone like me who is offering access to
my nude body. It is a tool to ensure that
women never retain soul autonomy over our body and images online.
She also goes further to say that she thinks that
these images really fit into the current tread wife social
media trend and that these guys are using AI to
turn her into this kind of fac modest woman who
(28:02):
is a traditional wife who dresses modestly and has kids
around her. But that's not who she is, and they're
using technology to sort of be like, oh, well, this
is what she would look like if she had made
better choices. NBC spoke to mike's Stable, the director of
public affairs for the Free Speech Coalition, which which is
an organization that lobbies on behalf of the adult industry,
who said, this is about controlling representations of women in society.
(28:25):
It's that ultimately women cannot be trusted to make their
own decisions about whether or take off their clothes, get tattoos,
or put on clothes. It's infantilization and ultimately, these men
by and large are going to make the decision. If
you don't want to do it, at least in their world,
they're going to change that. And I do think that
this is sort of grounded in this attitude that women
are not capable of, or do not deserve, control over
(28:49):
our bodies and the decisions that we make for ourselves.
And so you know, all that is to say, we've
been talking a lot about deep stakes and AI and
the intersections of identity, but really AI and deep THINKES
is a is a tool. What this is really about
is this pervasive attitude that marginalized people we don't deserve
(29:10):
to control our own our own choices, and our own bodies,
and the way that this technology is being used to
further that attitude.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, absolutely, it is. It's it's so like weird and gross.
I don't know, I'm so stuck at it.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
There's something so particularly I hate I hate that he
that late earlier you mentioned that one of them, like
in this four Chane Threads said something about like, oh,
people are more mad about you removing the tattoos and
making them more modest than they are about leaking their nudes.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
But in a weird way.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It almost is kind of like it's not grosser obviously
like leaking or like fake nudes or like that's terrible,
it's gross, but it's like it's so weird to be
putting to Yeah, like to be not just like hyper
sexualizing somebody, but putting them into this mold of who
you think they should be based on like gendered expectations,
and like, yeah, there's this weird like we're in such
(30:03):
a weird moment right now too, which I was just
on stuff Mom never told you talking about some of
the sort of like treads on TikTok right now around
girlhood and like womanhood. But we're in such a weird
point where there has been a really really strong, like
kind of resurgence to like in resurgence of like pressure
to go into these very gender and very highly gendered
(30:26):
molds and very you know, particularly for women.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Like there's this this.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
This return of like the trad wife is kind of
it's you know, everybody obviously like kind of knows the
trad wife is like the most extreme, but there's been
all these weird sort of pressures for women to like
become more feminine and present more feminine, and it just
this just feels like another manifestation of that that's so
weird and creepy and the meaning and not not great
(30:55):
for like the future to come, I guess.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, And if you who there is nothing wrong with
me and a girly girl. I would necessarily consider myself
a girly girl, but like, if that's what you want
to do, you should do that, and that's I like, Yes, However,
I do think that you're right. There is something I
think there we're experiencing something that's like if you aren't
like obviously it's better if you don't have tattoos, have
(31:20):
your natural hair color, or modestly dressed, have kids around you.
And even if that's even if that's not the choice
that you have made for yourself in your life, someone
out there is going to use technology to give the
world a window into what it would look like if
you had made this choice that we all know is better,
you know, And I do think there's something we're just
I don't know. I can't wait to listen to your
(31:41):
episode on stuff Mom Never told You, because there is
I do think there's something going on with feminine like
hyper feminine accessories and bows and like, I don't know something.
I think we're in an interesting moment and I can't
wait to hear your takes on stuff I'm Ever told you.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Thank you, I have been.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
There is a point of the episode where I try
to explain what Coquette is too.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I'm really badly trying.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
To explain what Coquette is to Samantha, But I definitely
kind of go back onto a whole episode about Cocatt
because the same like all, if that is what like
the kind of aesthetics and like fashion you're into, love
that for you, Like a lot of that stuff is
really cool and really cute. That being said, whatever, it's
a like pressure to put this onto other people. I
am not a feminine person at all. That is just
(32:25):
not a way that I'm comfortable presenting. If somebody were
to take a photo of me and like photoshop my
hair longer and like a dress.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Like that's gross. That is so weird and gross. And yeah,
it's just everything is weird. There's genders weird, gender is weird.
I think we should just not police each other's genders.
That would be really nice.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, and certainly not policing it via AI deep
fakes of strangers, because that's just weird. Let's let's not
do it. Stop doing that. It's gross. It's weird. It's
not the like epic troll you think it is. It
just makes you look really weird. So if You're like,
that's not that anybody who does that is listening.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
This is like the male version of like, oh my god,
I could save her, I could fix her, I can
remove her tattoos.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
He's like, AI more after a quick break, let's get
right back into it. Okay, speaking of creepy growth guys
(33:39):
and technology, is there something you want to ask me, Joey?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Uh yeah, Bridget what has Elon jone?
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Now? Well, Elon has doing a couple of things. First,
he is funding actor Gina Carreno from The Mandalorian. He's
funding her lawsuit. So remember way back when when Elon
Musk was like, anybody who faces repercussions for things they
say on Twitter, I will pay for their legal I
will pay for their legal defense. There is no limit.
(34:09):
I gotta eat crow on this one. Because people who
listen to this show regularly know that whenever there is
a financial promise being made from Elon Musk, I'm always like,
he's not gonna do it. Don't take that deal. He's
not gonna do it. But apparently he is making good
on that promise because he's funding Gina's lawsuit against Disney
from after she aspired from the Mandalorian.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
But he's doing it for this, Does this mean he's
gonna do it for every single lawsuit?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I don't know. Still, I still think you have.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Some some truth there with I mean, maybe not the
most like there are.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I mean there are plenty of people who have
been who have been like let go from their jobs
for speaking up for Palestine or drug like. I would
be curious to know where this begins and ends with
Elon Musk, like you, Joey, I suspect that he might
do this one time and then make a big show
of this if he pays. Lawsuits are expensive, they involve
(35:06):
lots of recurring bills. So I mean, I'm basically saying like,
it wouldn't surprise me if he's like, I'll pay one bill,
but I'm not paying all the bills. We will see, however,
I bet that this will not be a recurring thing.
That he will not take up the cause of anybody
who faces repercussions for what they post on Twitter. So
did you watch The Mandalorian at all?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I did. I have not.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Watched the most recent season because I heard it wasn't
very good, but I watched the first two.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, this whole thing was weird.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
So basically she was let go from The Mandalorian after
tweeting some like conspiracy theory kind of vibes. So what
does she tweet exactly? I would say it's kind of
your garden variety takes, Like she tweeted Jeff Epstein didn't
kill himself. Of course, Also remember this was in twenty twenty.
It just the vibes were like very people had a lot.
(36:00):
There was a lot going on in twenty twenty. I
guess I'll just say that. And so this was back
when Yeah, I don't I don't know if you remember.
I mean, I joke, but I literally had to like
going back to that mentally. I was like, oh, yeah,
that did happen. Oh yeah, that did happen. Like in
a lot of ways, I feel like I've blocked a
lot of that out and so yes, and so this
(36:22):
was back when like people were acting like being asked
to wear a mask was the biggest civil rights violation
of our time. And so I think she'd had a
tweet where I guess she was comparing like people who
didn't want to wear masks to Jewish people during the Holocaus.
She tweeted most people today don't realize that to get
to the point where Nazi shouldiers could easily round up
thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors
(36:45):
hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any
different from hating someone for their political views? So that
was a tweet. This one, I think is pretty funny.
She tweeted a picture of two men wearing masks over
their eyes with the cab. Democratic government leaders now recommend
we all wear blindfolds along with masks so we can't
(37:06):
see what's really going on. I gotta say, when I
was like eighteen, I might have snuck a retweet on
that one like that that would have spoken to young
me like, yeah, they don't want us to see the truth.
They want us in blindfolds. And then I have a
drawn anarchy symbol on my notebooks.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Oh my god, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
There's something very like that's.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
The most I've met one of many annoying, horrible things
about this. It's like sometimes these like weird orating people
will say stuff that it's.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Like, oh, that is kind of funny. I can't do it,
Like you're crazy, but that's all right.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I completely agree, Like, oh, I'll oh, this is like
y'all know, I have my problematic thaves. Whoever was the
first person to come up with chillery Kilton and then
the s is a dollar time. I'm gonna give it
to you on that one. I was like that one,
that's it's it's not like I like no, but like
(38:08):
it was clever. I see what you did there. Like
sometimes they sometimes they come up with these turns of
phrases and some are better than others. Because I remember
in two thousand and eight it was oh bummer and
I was like, oh, that one you could have like
workshopped that one a little better, like that didn't have.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
The yeah, like thanks Obama, that was a good one,
Like yeah, respond with like thanks Obama.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Thanks bomba.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Sometimes when you know when you're right here. Yeah, that
one didn't hit. I'm gonna give that a two out
of ten on that one. So she was really not
into the time. In twenty twenty when there was restrictions
on people gathering, she tweeted, open up your businesses in
churches because people are dropping like flies from depression and
suicide overdoses, murder all caps. Her tweets about the twenty
(38:57):
twenty election are very interesting to me, she tweet. We
need to clean up the election process so that we're
not left feeling the way we do today. Put laws
in place that protect us against voter fraud, investigate every state,
film the counting, flush out fake votes, require ID make
voter fraud end in twenty twenty, fix the system. So
that might all sound reasonable on the surface, but we
(39:21):
saw so much of that sentiment after the election, because
like you had people like Evanka Trump being like, oh,
count every legal vote, which again sounds reasonable, but it
gives the impression as if there is widespread voter fraud
and voting irregularities, which just is not happening. It's never happened.
It's not a thing. But when you say, like, I
just think we should count every legal vote. I just
(39:43):
think that we should make sure that you know we're
not counting fake votes. It really it's like a tricky
way of sowing distrust in our voting process, because that's
like not there aren't widespread voting irregularities, and so when
you adopt this lang which that makes it seem like
there are, it's a very sly way of just kind
(40:05):
of like chipping away at people's confidence in our democratic process.
So this last one is also really interesting to me.
She tweeted, I'm not against trans lives at all. They
need to find less abusive representation. And so when she
tweeted that, there was some back and forth on Twitter
where basically it seemed like what she was saying was like,
I don't have a problem with trans people. No, no, no, no,
(40:25):
I'm I'm out of trans phobe. I just think there's
spokespeople are very mean. Like that seemed to be like
what she was trying to get at.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Wait, I see these were finally adjusting the real problems
in this episodes, the mean trans people and the mean
lesbians that are kicking the straight people out of lesbian
bars and star wars.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Very mean, very rude. Did not care for your tone.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, I remember like all of this going down, because yeah,
I think like at the time the Mandaloriin was still
like a really big show, and I remember all this
going down, and it was like one thing after another
room it was like like come on, like you're also
like you're so I don't Yeah, yeah, it was it
was like what are the most despicable but also just
(41:10):
like stupid takes.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I can take.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, So I actually think that that's exactly what happened here.
Like I have no inside information from Disney or Lucasfilms
or whatever, but I bet that when you are a
very much a supporting actor in a piece, I bet
that they were just like, this is not worth a headache.
After a while, like thing after thing after thing after
a thing, I can imagine they're just like, we gotta
(41:35):
get rid of this person because they are just like
going rogue on Twitter and we can't have it. Like
I could see if it was just one or two tweets,
but like I can understand why this was not something
Disney was thrilled about getting brought into or mired into,
and were just like, oh, it's easier just to just
to not recast her. So, according to The Hollywood Reporter,
(41:56):
the complaint that she filed and a California federal court
alleges that she was fired for voicing right being opinions
on social media and seeks a court order that would
force Lucasfilms to recast her in The Mandalorian. According to
the complaint, Disney and Lucasfilms harassed and defamed her for
refusing to conform with their viewpoints on issues relating to
Black Lives Matter pronouns, and disproven claims of election interference.
(42:20):
While she was allegedly fired for her cultural and religious beliefs,
she argues that the entertainment giant turned a blind eye
to her male co stars who allegedly made offensive comments
directed toward Republicans. She points to Pedro Pascal's twenty seventeen
post comparing Donald Trump to Hitler, so when she says
that she has a gender discrimination complaint, she's saying that, like, oh,
they did this because I was a woman. Pedro Pascal
(42:43):
can compare Trump to Hitler, but I can't like say
my conspiracy theories without being fired. I will say. The
suit does kind of make it seem like Disney gave
her a few outs. The suit says that Disney required
her to meet with a representative from the Gay and
Lesbian Alliance Against Discrimination and demanded a public apology. She refused,
(43:05):
and after she refused, she was told to meet with
Lucasfilm's president, Kathleen Kennedy and forty five employees who identify
as LGBTQ plus. According to the suit, she declined and
was terminated shortly thereafter from The Mandalorian, as well as
other titles in the Star Wars universe, including Rangers of
the New Republic. So it kind of sounds like that
tweet that she made about trans people meeting better representation
(43:29):
or whatever, it sounds like maybe that was like a
real sticking point with Disney because they were like, oh,
you need to meet with Glad, you need to meet
with LGBTQ folks, and she declined. And she says that
because Disney terminated her, that was the impetus for Uta
and her lawyer both dropping her as a client, which
to me is kind of It does kind of seem like,
you know, if you tweet some spicy takes and then
(43:51):
your lawyer and your agent are like, we don't want
to be associated with this. That's not I'm not a lawyer,
but I don't see how that Disney's fault. You're the
one who said it, Like, I don't kind of get
it right.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Yeah, it's also always weird that she's the argument she's
making is it's her culture. She was fired for her
cultural and religious beliefs, Like.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah, I guess that's the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Is like weird break wing Christian like people are saying
that like homophobian transphobia is whatever, it's a part of
our religious police. But it's like what like being I
don't know that's it just feels like that feels like
such a stretch of cultural and religious beliefs, especially if
you're saying the like cultural and like the equivalent of
that is like Petro Piscoal making fun of Donald Trump. Like,
(44:36):
I don't know, that's such a stretch. I also cannot
emphasize this like enough. She played like a tiny role
as like a space cop in Star Wars. And this
was also around the time when like the Mandalorian was
doing really good, so they had announced like a ton
of new TV shows, half of which have already been canceled.
(44:58):
So it's like, I don't know, like I feel like
one of those things where it's like I don't necessarily
think her career was like headed in a really like
you know, prestigious direction if it weren't for all of it,
Like it is like kind of I don't know, it
feels like this is a really convenient opportunity for her
to stay relevant. Is I guess maybe where I'm going
(45:21):
with this, But yeah, this whole thing is so weird.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Joey, are you suggesting this is a stunt?
Speaker 2 (45:27):
What?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Absolutely not?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
What she's like besties with Ben Shapiro too? What?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I know? It's bad. So Twitter can't figure out how
to keep deep fakes off their platform, but they've got
time for this. And in case you're curious, what else
Elon Musk has been up to you so ironically, while
he's been funding Gina Carano's sexual harassment suit against Disney,
Elon Musk himself is simultaneously being hit with yet another
(45:56):
sexual harassment lawsuit. Let's talk about it. So, I know,
so surprise. Who could have ever seen a coming? It
might shock y'all to know this, but Elon Musk's company
SpaceX has a frat boy atmosphere filled with crude sexual
jokes and gender base harassment. This is according to a
new lawsuit filed by a group of former employees in
(46:17):
a civil rights complaint. So we all, like, if you
follow Elon Musk on Twitter or like, have ever seen
his tweets reteted into your timeline, you probably already know
that he loves to make bad like sex jokes, bad
jokes about women, and former employees say that they were
illegally retaliated against by being fired for calling him out
on it. According to a report in the new complaint
(46:39):
to the California Civil Rights Department and in interviews, the
seven former employees say that SpaceX executives routinely dismissed their
concerns or harass them by excluding them from meetings, promoting
colleagues above them, and joking about a sexual harassment accusation
against Musk. So folks might remember that Elon Musk was
accused of sexually harassing a flight attended on one of
(47:00):
his flights, And it sounds like an HR person at
SpaceX was laughing and joking about that and being like, oh,
I've never had a problem with that. I guess I'm
not hot enough. Ha ha ha ha ha. So Paige
Hollin Theelen, one of the complainants, says, I was left
out of so many meetings that I was supposed to
be in. I was left out of so many decisions
that were mine to make. I was forgotten on projects.
(47:23):
I was forgotten and planning. She says that in twenty
eighteen she was hired at SpaceX as a basic level engineer,
below her male colleagues, given seniority despite a similar level
of qualifications and experience. Bringing things to light is the
first step of actually making them better, she said. And
she says that when she complained about this to her
higher ups at SpaceX, they said that she was being
too emotional, and that when she complained that a male
(47:45):
colleague was taking credit for her work, they told her
that she should be more humble. Another thing that's interesting
here is that she alleges that the jokes, like the
gendered sexual jokes that Elon Musk would make basically took
center stage at space She says, basically anything that would
make a freshman frat and the sit laugh was fair
game in large parts of the company. And so yeah,
(48:07):
the fact that like one of the things that they
were senior employees were joking about were Elon's stupid jokes
and antics just shows that, like, this is a top
down problem, Like the problem the rot starts at the top.
If you can't even talk about the comments that your boss, boss,
tippy top boss is making without getting slapped with a
gender harassment lawsuit, the problem starts at the top.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Yeah, that's interesting because I always wondered, like all of
this weird, like Elon Musk obviously has like a terrible
sense of humor, Like you could tell from his tweets
that he has a horrible sense of humor. Like, so
the people around him like also feel like that, Like
did they encourage that or like I don't know, it's
always like it feels like it would suck to be
in a meeting with this dude. But yeah, I guess
(48:50):
that makes sense that they all are probably in the
same like brain set, mindset, you know that is that's yeah,
like not surprising unfortunately, but also like so gross to
have to navigate.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Elon Wants joked that he was going to start a
new educational facility called the Texas Institute of Technology and
Science com t I t S or tits. So that's
the whole joke is that it spells out tits.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
You gotta that's not even like.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
It's like I mean calling that like freshman frat jokes
is like that's that's even too low for that, like
out of come.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
On, Yeah, this is this is a grown man. He
has children.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
He is a grown man, a father of lots of kids,
and he is still thinks it's thinks the word tits
is hilarious. Thanks spelling out the word. It's like it's
like it reminds me of when I was teaching like
second graders and they would all find the dictionary and
look up the word sex and just thought it was
so funny. It is like it is like calling yeah
(49:58):
freshman frat is like way too generous for the level
that this this kind of humor is.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
And like a college radio show that I worked on
that the acronym for it ended up being tits. But
it was like like we all thought it was fun
We were like well, like our group chat for each other,
like it was all like, but that was it, Like
that was the farthest the joke wet because you know,
hah it says tits, that's funny, but like I don't know,
that's not.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I just it's what a weird What a weird dude?
I think I would be.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
So it would be so infuriating working at one of
these companies, obviously because of the terrible environment, but also
can you imagine like having that be like this down
like being the funniest person in the office, but like
nobody else acknowledging it because this is the type of
humor that they have, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
So.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
This is something I have always thought about Elon Musk
is that he has billions of dollars, He's politically connected,
he has anything that he could want. He could have,
except he he really wants people to think he is funny.
I think that is why one of the reasons why
he bought Twitter, why he has, you know, tweaked the
algorithm so that his tweets get more views and more engagement.
(51:12):
I think that he desperately needs to be thought of
as funny and charming. He desperately wants people to like him.
And it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or a chillionaire.
You can't buy that like you can't. You can't. I'm
sure that in your little bubble that is your boardroom
or whatever, you can force people to laugh at your
tits jokes, But if you're not funny in real life,
(51:35):
you can't force people to think that you're funny. And
I think that's really something that's important to him. And
from all the research I've done on Elon Musk, he
is somebody who loves to surround himself with sycophants. I
could imagine having to be a sycophant and like be like,
be a yes person to my boss's terrible ideas, having
to fake laugh at jokes that are not funny. I
(51:57):
would have to draw the line. I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Oh, Bridget, I'm sorry. This is where I've got to
tell you that you, oh the last of the Joey.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
No, no, I couldn't. I this is it's so annoying.
He's such a like clown of a man. But it's
it's so like, it's such a sad It's so sad.
It is so sad. This man just wants to be
seen as funny and charming, so bad that like he's
tanking the entire world to get to that and still not.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
I don't know. That's some weird, weird stuff.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
I will quote one of my favorite New York based poets,
Countess Luandela SEPs money can't buy a class. Joey, thank
you for always having so much class and talking to
these news stories with me. You were talking about the
episode that you did on the podcast stuff I've never
told you about Girlhood and TikTok. It's done the fascinating
(53:05):
How can folks listen?
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Of course you can check out that episode. It's called
TikTok's Crisis of Femininity. It would have come out February seventh.
We can put it in the notes that people are
interested in. But it is just kind of overall about
all of the weird conversations. It was basically what started
with me trying to write an episode about girl dinner
(53:28):
and girl math and all of those things, and then
spiraled it to me talking about all of the weird
conversations about girlhood that are happening on TikTok, and we
go from trad wives to all the different aesthetic trends
and you know, lots of fun stuff girl dinner, girl hobbies.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Girl math math.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
You know, you get trying to take critical look.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Do you get into like because the aesthetics, it's something
that I It changes so quickly, and it's like I
thought we were doing there, supposed to be doing clean girl,
and now we're doing mob life. Like I can't, who
can keep up?
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Yeah, well, it's it's crazy because that's the whole thing
about it, isn't it goes so quick. It changes so quick.
I talk about it in the episode which Rigid. I'm
sure you could resonate with this. It's it's interesting because
the whole idea of having an aesthetic, and like an
online aesthetic, like is something that has always been a
big part of online culture and like was a really
(54:25):
big part of like Tumbler and all that. And it's
been interesting with TikTok it's really just become like, instead
of being about personal style, it's turned into like the
latest fast fashion trend and how some of those trends
have been really really you know, staked in this idea
of girlhood and womanhood and femininity and there's some.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Sort of strange messages about consumerism and all.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
That there that I get into in the episode if
you're interested in hearing more about that, and just kind
of trying to take a critical look at some of
the messages around femininity and girlhood that are you know,
circulating on TikTok right now, and how a lot of
(55:12):
that ties into consumerism and some sort of more concerning
trends on a political level we're seeing with like the
gender binary being very strictly enforced.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
And all of that. So, you know, fun, fun, light stuff,
but yeah, check that, check an episode out.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
As always, do you want to hear more of my work,
you can also check out Afterlives, the Leali and Flanco story,
follow me and all the social media's maybe blue Sky soon.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Who's to say?
Speaker 3 (55:42):
At pat dot Pratt, that's Patt n otcr Att.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Thank you so much for being here and thanks to
all of you for listening. I will see you on
the Internet. If you're looking for ways to support the show,
check out our workstore at tenggodi slash store. Got a
story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want
to say hi, You can reach us at Hello at
tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's
(56:09):
episode at tenggody dot com. There Are No Girls on
the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a
production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey Pat
Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our
producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer.
I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help
us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For
(56:30):
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
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