October 28, 2021 • 55 mins
The Woodlands, TX: Third Squad’s corpsman, Matthew Foreit, was responsible for treating injured Marines on the battlefield in Sangin. A decade later, Foreit tells Elliott he’s still grappling with the feeling that he could’ve done more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Third Squad is a documentary podcast about war. All episodes
contain strong language and graphic descriptions of violence that may
not be suitable for all listeners. M I don't break
(00:23):
down crying very often. It's not like I'm a tough
guy or anything. It just doesn't really happen, even in
the privacy of my own home, until one day it
does in the driver's seat of a rental car and
the departures lane at George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston.
(00:46):
I'm Elliott Woods. This is Third Squad Episode three, The Guilt.
It's the first Saturday of March. Third Squad producer Tommy
(01:08):
Andres and I have miles to cover between San Diego
and our next stop, Houston, Texas, where we're gonna visit
Manny Mendoza, that hard working kid from the Texas border
town who joined the Marines because of nine eleven. We
turn away from the Pacific Ocean and soon we're cutting
across the desert within sight of the Mexican border, West
(01:29):
Texas town of Mexicans we got. We hit El Paso
just after dark. We wolfed down some Mexican food, and
then we're back on I tent heading deep into the
(01:49):
heart of Texas. We're making great time, but we're not
supposed to be this far along yet. There was another
Third Squad veteran in the San Diego area who we
were hoping to meet up with. Third Squad's Navy corman,
Matthew for It, who the guys called Doc. Here. He
is telling me about his job back at patrol based
fires in two thousand eleven. Yeah, I'm pretty much supposed
(02:10):
to think of an actual doctor out here, but it
is a lot more than that, because I'm also handling
like not just the major emergencies, but minor emergencies as well,
like when these guys get like sick with colds or
when they get like a sucking like rash they know
any thing about, or whether you know, I'm the one
person they turned to. It wasn't hard to find for
its contact information when I started tracking down Third Squad
(02:32):
last winter, but my calls and text went unanswered for months,
and it's been pretty disappointing to think I might not
get to talk to him. Because none of the Third
Squad veterans had a more intimate perspective on the physical
destruction caused by I. E. D. S Or a more
crushing burden of responsibility in the immediate moments after an explosion.
(02:53):
But there's another reason I want to talk to for it.
Something big happened to him after I left Sangin, and
I've never heard a story firsthand. I just about given
up on for it when somewhere in West Texas, my
phone rings and I see his name on the caller.
I d We turn on the recorder. Yeah, I figured
(03:15):
I got your name. I got your name saved in
my phone. How are you doing? Man? All right? What's
what's new? What's going on? Under? You're gonna be in Yes,
before it cuts right to the chase, he says he's
going to be in Houston while we're there, and he'll
actually be staying with Mendoza, the same guy we're on
our way to see. He says he got my messages
(03:38):
and he's willing to talk, which is a huge relief,
But he says he doesn't have much time, so we
make a plan to meet up as soon as we
get into town. All right, well, cool, thanks for calling.
Bye bye. We drive into the early hours of the morning,
catch a few hours asleep at an off ramp hotel
(04:00):
an oil country, and we hit Houston the following afternoon.
In a stroke of luck, we find a last minute
airbnb just up the road from Mendoza's apartment. It turns
out to be a strange place, like it was decked
out by someone on a bad Honky tonk acid trip.
The walls are painted Fanta orange and decorated with no name,
(04:21):
forty five and cheap cowboy hats, and the only light
in the room comes from a single bulb and a
dingy ceiling fan. To make matters worse, every surface in
the place is rock hard, right up to the glass
coffee table, which means the acoustics are going to be terrible.
But to quote the late Donald Rumsfeld, you go into
an interview about war with the airbnb you have not
(04:43):
the one you want. We barely have time to settle
in before Mendoza's pick up pulls into the driveway. Howie, partners,
how's it going? All right? Yeah? Alright, yeah, I haven't
(05:04):
seen these guys in ten years. Mendoza looks more or
less the same, with a shock of gray hair and
a bit more roundness to his cheeks, but for it
looks totally different in the portrait I took of him
and sang in back in two thousand eleven. He's clean
shaven and has a strong tan line from his sunglasses
and helmet. His head is buzzed and his cheeks are
(05:25):
all hollowed out. But the guy standing before me now
has wavy red hair slicked back and hanging down to
his shoulders. He's got a full beard and black rimmed glasses.
He's wearing Doc Martin's with jeans and a black T
shirt stretched over his belly with the logo of a
metal band called Three Teeth. For It has apparently left
(05:47):
the high and tight military culture in the dust. We're
gonna catch up with Mendoza later. He hops in his
truck and takes off for work, and we step inside
with for It. Oh yeah, this place is kind of weird.
We looked for the closest Airbnb two okay where Mendoza lives,
(06:10):
and it's a little Yeah, it's a little strange. Somebody
really likes to decorate before it's got a flight back
to San Diego in the morning. We only have a
couple of hours and we have a lot to talk about,
so we grab a couple of shiner box from the
fridge and jump right into it. It's really great that
we were able to get in touch, and I'm really
(06:31):
glad that you're here. I was starting to think maybe
we weren't going to get to talk to you, So
thanks for agreeing to do it. I really appreciate it.
And it's important to say right up front that I
know a lot of this stuff was not easy to
talk about then and it's not easy to talk about now,
and it's pretty accurate. I'm interested to know what you
(06:51):
were feeling when you saw my messages and when you
you heard that I wanted to talk to you, and
why that made you nervous. And I'm not trying to
put you on the spot, but just what did that
conjure up for you or what were you feeling? You know?
I mean, I think it just brought back a lot
of bad memories from that time. So I kind of like,
I mean, you know, and really, like I said, I'm
not really good you know, these kinds of things and
(07:14):
these kinds of interviews and such, So I guess like
I got nervous. If you will, I can see four.
It's anxious. He's literally recoiling from the microphone. But back
in sang In he was one of the most open
of the whole bunch in his interview from two thousand
eleven has stuck with me more than most over the
last decade, especially his vivid descriptions of treating casualties during
(07:38):
the June curse. I remember you saying that after this
string of I e d S in June, that you
were justifiably, let's just say that all of your senses
were firing on all cylinders at all times. It accurate. Yeah,
I guess I'm just trying to understand like the daily
level of fear and anxiety and what that felt like, Like,
what did it feel like to live with at every day?
(08:03):
I guess so to as sent kind of aged me
a bit and kind of definitely I know, stress as
a lot has a big impact on your physical health.
We have a lot of guys who started to losing
their hair, started turning gray earlier, like dudes who are
in they're like not even past, started to get like
bald spots and gray hair. Everyone was worried about getting
(08:25):
blown up before it carried an extra load. He knew
that whenever an I e d went off, the casualties
lives would be in his hands, and he would have
a matter of minutes at most to stop the bleeding,
very large amount of pressure. As soon as you go out,
you never know, you know, is this day going to
be the day when something happens. And I'm the one
(08:50):
thing that's going to determine whether or not someone's going
to be able to go home again or whatnot. Back
when I met Ford and sang and he was just
trying to get through the days one at a time,
hoping like hell, there wouldn't be any more I E
d s, but always preparing himself for the next one.
(09:12):
He was impossibly far from the West Chicago suburbs where
he grew up. For it wasn't a gung ho teenage
recruit like some of the third Squad guys. In high school,
he got teased because of his weight two seventy pounds
at just five ft eleven inches tall. His size was
a big problem for him when he first started thinking
(09:33):
about joining the military. He told me about it when
I interviewed him at Peepee Fires in two thousand eleven,
Like I really tried wanted to join then about two
years ago. Um I had the weight though, because I
had traveled with my weight, like I was a little
bit like overweight, so i'd like worked out for a
little while and that I was able to join along
with this weight for it. Struggled in high school with
(09:55):
the learning disability called disc graphia that made it hard
for him to write clearly. He up bullied and had
a hard time making friends. In his own words, he
was a loner. He spent his free time playing computer
games and listening to metal and goth music. After graduation,
he took a crack at community college, but he dropped
out and got a couple of jobs working back room
(10:16):
stock at big box stores. He was twenty three and
still living with his parents when he started worrying that
his life was going nowhere, so he called a Navy recruiter.
At first, he thought it would be cool to be
a Master at Arms, basically the Navy's version of a
police officer. But by the time he cut enough weight
to ship to boot camp, that job wasn't available anymore,
(10:39):
and so they d me off the whole list of
different jobs, and they had told me about Corman. Asked
what Corman was Corman? Basically they said he do two thinks.
You neither a work in hospital or you go with
the Marines pretty much as a field medic. So I said, okay,
I'll take that. When for it, finally signed his enlistment papers.
He became the third generation in his family to join
(11:00):
the Navy before its. Parents were proud of him, but
it was a time of war and they worried about
his decision to become what's known as a greenside Corman,
one who serves with the Marines. Before it had made
up his mind, he went off to boot camp in
Hospital Corman School, close to home at Great Lakes Naval
Station north of Chicago, where he did pretty well. Back
(11:21):
when I was in high school, I was always good
at science and biology, and I used to be and
I used to being the boy Scouts, and I knew,
you know, already new a little bit about first aid
and ship. So that's why why when I got to
course school, it was pretty easy. There will be no
easy days after court school for its next stop was
(11:44):
Field Medical Training Battalion or fm TB at Camp Pendleton's,
where he learned how to treat casualties and the mayhem
of ground combat. Then he completed a grueling live tissue
course where he and his fellow trainees had to treat
live pigs and goats with real life threatening in reasons
simulated battles, the blood was real and live tissue training,
(12:05):
and four it took it seriously. He knew that he
was going to get fast tracked to Afghanistan, where the
life and death scenarios would not be simulations and where
the blood would be Marines. Pretty much like every day
on n FMTV, all we heard was just basically three five,
this and three you know, all the like. It was
(12:25):
like every day seemed like three five was taking casualties,
especially Corman. It seemed like they're losing Corman left and right.
When I got here, of the company that we replaced,
only like two of the original Corman remained. Everybody else
had either have been like blown up or shot or something.
So yeah, when I got here, I was paranoida as
(12:47):
hell for its paranoia was entirely reasonable. In two thousand eleven,
Sangin was one of the most dangerous places on the planet.
Three five, the battalion that for its unit replay, had
twenty five marines killed and a hundred and eighty four
wounded during their seven months tour. That's almost one in
(13:07):
every five Third Squad hit the ground that April, and
for a couple of months things were quiet, but the
grace period expired and on June twelve, two thousand eleven,
for its training would be put to the test in
the most serious way. We're going up to uh third
platoon was to resupply them. And I was like in
(13:29):
the back of which all when we first heard the explosion,
I saw this big as huge, sixty ft mushroom cloud
just shoved in the air, and I was just like
the first thing I did, I just spread it towards
the front of the patrol and as soon as I
(13:52):
crossed the bridge, that's when the second I e d
went up and that's what I got hit. When I
got blown up, like I lost my hearing for a
couple of seconds. I just stumbled. I kind of felt
straight to my knees. I ain't black out, but I
(14:15):
just cost sat there confused for a couple of seconds
to wanting what the hell was going on. And then
when the dust cleared, they died. The dude who was
in from the lance corporatellot, I just saw his entire
face was just covered in blood. First thing I did,
I just looked down to make sure I was still okay,
and make sure I still had my legs and arms,
and then I just went straight to McDaniels. He's talking
(14:38):
about Joshua McDaniels, Third Squads combat Engineer. When I got
to him, he had been pretty much like his legs
were gone almost at least the flesh round his legs
were gone, almost up to his waist, but pretty much
like I would say, six yes, six inches below his
hip was like where had stopped, and everything else below
(15:01):
that was just bone. The blast had shot straight up
into him, and like I said, his genitals had been well,
they were intact, had been pushed up into his abdomen,
and everything else around his perineum and on the other
(15:22):
side of his thighs were just torn up. It was
it looked like seed. It was pretty much just searried
raw flesh. First off, I tried getting the tourniquets on him. Um,
(15:43):
like I said, his the flesh around his leg was
pretty much gone, almost the point where it was like
it was hard to get a turning in on. I
go why I had like even like the metal, I
had a little bit difficulty just trying to get on
because it was like slipping off his leg almost so,
and I like, I applied like three TURNI kits on
his right leg and one metal one his left leg,
(16:07):
which had a little bit more flesh on it than
the other one, and then that began stuffing both his
wounds love as much gauze and combat cause that I
had just trying to get the bleeding stopped by tricking
an ivy start on him, but his veins were just
too blown out. He had lost too much blood, and
he was starting to go into unconsciousness and starting to
lose a pulse. What I did was, I like, I
(16:30):
grabbed an EpiPen and just injected with them. If you
give someone an emty pens at them with a drill
and it gets their pulse right back up and the
blood pressure backup. So that's what I did, and after
that I was able to actually get when pulse sign
him and then we got him on the brig So
(16:55):
what's going through your head when you're when you're doing
all that stuff? I was just basically like pretty much
just pretty much like it, just constantly saying to myself,
fuck my life over and over again. I just got
blown off myself. After that, I saw it was a
little bit panicky as well, but I just like just
win there and just like you know do I thought
(17:17):
was right to try to save them. McDaniels was beyond saving,
and the I E. D That killed him was only
the first of several that day. By the time the
dust settled, sixteen other men had been wounded, including for It.
Three of them lost limbs. For its ear drums got
blown out on June twelve, and he suffered a traumatic
(17:39):
brain injury that made him want to puke every time
he moved for days. The nausea eventually subsided, but he
couldn't stop obsessing over the details of that day. After
the incident, I was kind of like going through the
mine to myself, maybe I should have done this. May
ship done that. I told the core any other corner
around me would happen. They said, hey, you did you
know you'd do what you could do. You did the
(18:01):
best of you can. There's not a whole lot you
could have done for him for it. Had a new
appreciation for his training and a new awareness of its limits. See, like,
the problem with like course school is that like evil
with your patient assessment and you're like, okay, what you
do with again? Showing what if you do if you
got ampy tee and you know you you explain the
steps and blah blah. But it's not like you get
(18:21):
these clean cut wounds that are like, okay, I packed
you up, your guys. Now you get these wounds that
like you look at your like, holy sh it, how
am I going to fix that? For it learned with
McDaniels that there are some wounds that can't be fixed.
He also learned that his bonds with the Marines went
way beyond professional obligation. When you care for someone and
(18:44):
you tend to like work a little harder to like
for them, it's not just like some random person now,
it's it's like as someone you know. So when you
actually care about your go put them a little more
initiative into treating them, make sure they come back home
safe and alive, and if like something does happen to them,
you just feel like devastable when it does, it like
hits you really harder a lot more than it was
(19:05):
like some random stranger like a hospital or something, because
this is someone you'd like, because it's people like I've
I've spent time with, I like I like talked to
like chill with I consotly see on a regular basis.
Third Squad had become a second family to for it,
but his real family was back in the Chicago suburbs,
(19:26):
so far from Sangon they may as well have been
on another planet like our first mascasts happened. I did
get a chance to talk to my folks, but I
ain't tell them completely what happened because I didn't want
to scare the crap out of them. At least I
wanted to, like, I wanted to wait till we get
back and then tell him everything that happened. But then
they got an email from Templeton's wife explaining what happened
(19:48):
with McDonel's and O'Brien and there, and then I got
next time I took called them after that They're like, hey,
what's going on? And then I told him what was happening.
So now now everybody's pretty much scared out of their
minds sitting in the safety of the Houston suburbs together
all these years later. I want to know what sticks
with for it most from the deployment, I would say
(20:12):
for me, it would definitely be working on on McDaniels
and then afterwards being extremely shook up by the whole
thing and finding out that he passed away on the
bird and everything. The you know smell of like iron
from the blood and everything, and ah, that would be
(20:32):
probably one of the things that bothers me the most.
I would say that still kind of haunts me. There's
another clip from two thousand eleven that I've been thinking
about a lot ever since for it walked in the door. Actually,
I've been thinking about it a lot longer than that.
Tommy cues it up for us, people telling me, I
get get me. It doesn't really really hit you till
(20:52):
you get back to the state and you actually see
their families and ship and you see the guys walking
around with like prosthetics. So it's something. But I have
to probably deal with playing it back. But I mean
I just try to, like, I just try to move on.
That was weird hearing me say that benching prosthetics, I'd
(21:13):
end up with a prosthetic. That was a bit odd.
Here save it. The thing that everyone in third squad
was worried about happened to Ford. He stepped on an
I E. D. We'll be back after the break. So
(21:59):
just so I'm clear, what day was this again? What
was the date on AUGUSTA? Do you remember what you
guys were going out to do. I remember we were
going out to a farm. We found something suspicious by
some dudes house, some dudes farm, and we came back,
(22:20):
waited for e O D two to arrive, and then
we went back out there. That's Explosive Ordinance disposal, basically,
the bomb squad. We had just crossed one of the
canals and I remember taking a few steps forward and
I just the first thing I saw was this kind
of giant dust cloud kind of pop up in front
(22:42):
of me, and that's when you heard the boom. My
first thoughts were, all right, this is it. I'm gone.
I guess I fell to the ground owned I was
dazed for a bit. I know, I wasn't unconscious. I
(23:05):
was just dazed and a little confused for a moment.
Then dust kind of settled down and kind of like
just sat there for a couple of seconds. But I
kind of came to and I kind of first thing
I did was just I just kind of patted myself
down and and I'll be honest, yeah, the first thing
(23:27):
I packed down with my dick because that's a lot
what's That's what a lot of guys do pretty much
in all honesty, and I was like, okay, I'm somewhat okay,
I'm good. I'm still alive and I'm still here. And
that's when I felt the pain in my foot and
I realized that part of my foot was missing. My
(23:48):
guys came rushing forward. They started treating me kind of
like pointed out some things what to do, what not
to do, like to leave the boot on, because that's
kind of what's going to be holding my foot together.
All the Marines had basic medical training, but for it
was the expert, and now there he was coaching his
friends on how to help him. The one thing you
(24:09):
do in those situations, you don't take a lot of
people would want to take the boot off. You don't
do that. That's kind of acting as like accessory split.
So sort of help helping to keep all your stuff
together down there. So then I remember getting a hoist
onto the bird, getting sent to a leather neck. That's
(24:29):
when things kind of got hazy. That's when they started,
I guess, operating on me and everything. I don't really
remember a whole lot from that, I'll be honest to say,
I was high. Was it would be an understatement. I
was pretty much in fucking outer space, the amount of
pain pills I was on. Since you were the corman,
where you usually farther back in the ranger file further back. Yes,
that's why. I think that's why a lot of people
(24:50):
are kind of like shocked by that, because I was
usually the third person from the last, from the end
of the line, so a lot of people walk past it.
I mean that that happens that I forget who told me.
But they had actually done a little experiment where I
think it was the O D. They took a pressure
plate hooked up to a small amount of explosives, like
(25:11):
enough to fill like a firecracker, and they like drove
over it and it was like seventeen times for it
actually went off. The way it was out there, you
can step on one, but it won't go off, and
you never know you were stepping on one. That's how
scary that ship was. Anyone in third squad could have
(25:32):
stepped on that I E. D. And because he was
so far back in the patrol and the Marines marked
where they stepped, some of them probably did step on it.
For it was the unlucky one that day. But that's
not how he sees it. Honestly, I really lucked out.
I found out later on that it was about ten
pounds of explosives and only two pounds actually went off,
(25:54):
obviously if the whole thing went off, and the fact
that they also buried it kind of deep. It was
like pretty like I'd say, about two or three feet deep.
If it weren't for those variables, probably wouldn't be here
before it got meta Act back to the US by
way of Germany, first to San Antonio and then eventually
to his new home, Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego,
(26:14):
about an hour from Camp Pendleton. When is the first
time that you really take stock of your injuries? Right
when I landed in San Antonio, I has lifted up
and I just saw that my foot had looked like
a piece of chunk of meat with a bunch of
(26:35):
like skewers punched through it. They were using a bunch
of pins and to hold it together. And that's that's
when I kind of really realized, Oh wow, how bad
that was? And what did they tell you? What did
the doctors tell you when they first came to talk
to you? Oh, that that they're going to just do
whatever they can to save the foot and everything. The
(26:56):
unsanitary conditions the Marines were exposed to, and sang In
could make injuries like four, it's much worse. They had
no running water and went days sometimes weeks without bathing,
and they were constantly waiting through canals to avoid i e. D. S.
Those canals are basically that's where they throw all their garbage,
all their sewage, bones, stuff like that. At Balboa, for
(27:19):
Its doctors grew concerned about his lack of progress. They
told him those unsanitary conditions may have contributed to a
nightmare infection. The infectious disease doctor took a live culture
from my foot, and I believe what he said was
it was four different types of bacteria just pretty much
(27:42):
eating away at the flesh. He was the one that
noticed that there was this just big, giant like glava
pus leaking from the foot. And they must have had
you on gallons of antibiotics at that. Oh yeah, I
was like I had two separate I vs. In me
of antibiotics and pain killers. Four. It didn't want to
freak out his parents about how dangerous it was, and
(28:04):
sang in, but there was no hiding in anymore. They
flew from Chicago to San Diego as quickly as they
could to be by his bedside. They had to wear
head to tell isolation gowns and maintain distance because before
its weekend immune system he was dazed from the pain medication.
But it was a comfort to have them there, especially
(28:25):
as mom Darlene, So, what was it like for her
to come and find you injured? And she was just
glad I was alive pretty much, and she did get
a little bit emotional. I'm sure it was kind of
hard for her not to be able to touch me
and hugged me and everything. But she was there to
help you, Yeah, to sit out there for a month
with me and San Diego and to help me out
(28:45):
with the severity of his injuries. It was clear that
for it was going to be in the hospital for
a long time. The infection in his foot just kept
getting worse and the aggressive antibiotics didn't seem to be
having any effect. One of the Navy surgeon and laid
out a grim prognosis. He was talking with me and said,
you know, hey, we're gonna leave it up to you
(29:06):
whether or not you want to like take off the
leg or try to save it. We're gonna be honest
with you. We've seen this numerous times, and most of
the time people usually just end up getting it cut off.
They said if if if I tried to save it,
more than likely I'd be still in the impatient for
(29:27):
additional seven months. It was after they got done talking
to me, and actually, that's what I kind of agreed. Okay,
let's just take the leg off. The surgeon amputated for
(29:48):
its infected foot above the ankle, and with the foot gone,
he thought he could finally focus on healing. But then,
lying in his hospital bed at Balboa the night after
his amputation for it, got an unexpected call, Michael Dutcher
was dead. Well that happened, I had pretty much broke
(30:14):
down and started crying like a baby. I had just
gotten the lead cut off when I had heard about him,
and I kind of lost it. But I took his
his death pretty hard for it. Had a special fondness
(30:35):
for Dutcher because Dutcher always had four It's back when
I first got to got the platoon and didn't really
know a whole lot and didn't have any real experience
at the Marines. He kind of helped me out, and
you know when a lot of people weren't really will
willing to help me out, help me, you know, adjust
to the unit. He was always always there and everything.
(30:57):
That chubby kid who had to cut weight to joined
the Navy, struggled to keep up with the Marines, who
pride themselves on being physical beasts. The tactical stuff was
challenging to Dutcher was there to help smooth the way.
He was definitely one of the most helpful Marines. I knew.
He was always always there and everything. So that's probably
(31:21):
my best memories of him. When Ford found out about Dutcher,
he totally shut down. Yeah, that's why I do when I,
like GiB said, I just kind of I do kind
of isolate myself for a bit and then I kind
of move on and such. So, but you know, when
I heard about that, I was straight up devastated. Do
you remember the first person who you talked to about
(31:42):
it after the phone call? Yeah, my mother, she was there.
Third Squad wouldn't be home from Afghanistan for several weeks,
but a few of the guys from PB fires were
recovering with Forward at Balboa, including his original platoon sergeant
and squad leader and one of his fellow corman. They
scrambled to get permission from Naval Medical Command to fly
(32:05):
out for Dutcher's funeral on September for It was hardly
a week out of surgery when pumped full of drugs
and with his corman buddy pushing his wheelchair, he boarded
a plane for North Carolina to say goodbye to Dutch.
I have hard time remembering that right when I got
out of the hospital and I was on a lot
of medication. You know, I have like bits of pieces
(32:28):
of it in my mind. There are some things, for
it does remember clearly, the crowds of people who came
out to the Western Carolina State Veterans Cemetery to pay
their final respects, and the love he felt for the
wounded men who helped him make the trip. They pose
(32:52):
for a picture in front of a sloping field of
identical granite headstones, together, ten of them, five in wheelchairs,
their uniform pants pinned where their limbs used to be.
(33:17):
Back at Balboa, for It eventually healed up enough to
move into his own room and an outpatient facility for convalescence.
With his mom's help, he started learning how to live
as an amputee. Basically came back back and forth right
until I d I got comfortable walking out my prosthetic.
So again, like I said, going back to me and
how how you guys see me walk on my prost
(33:37):
egg right now? That took me like a couple of months.
But it was until, like I said, around April spring
of two thousand and twelve, that's I kind of got
really comfortable with walking on the prosst egg to the
point where I was, you know, almost got most of
my mobility back. The physical rehab was a distraction from
his grief. It gave him something tangible to work on,
(33:59):
and he made progress slowly, but surely. I'm glad they
gave me the choice. And honestly, and I think you
can both probably attest to it. Seeing the walk on
this thing, I feel like I made the right choice.
A lot of people don't even realize them in amputee
unless like show him this. So you're pulling up your
pant leg right now and showing your prosthetics. So tell us,
(34:20):
tell us about this technology. Tell us about your prosthetic,
what it's made out of, and all, okay, Well, the
main base right here is a carbon fiber. I can
just pull it up like this. You've got your your
pant leg rolled up, and there's a blue sock kind
of thing that's over your which would be your calf
basically up to your knee essentially. Yeah, right, I would
(34:41):
say right right up to my I'd say right here,
just past my ankle a bit. That's where that's how
much they took off. The stump swells and retracts with
changes in his diet, which means he has to get
his prosthetic recalibrated or change the number of socks he
wears from time to time. Before it says, all of
that is manageable, So you get around pretty well on
(35:01):
that Like people, people don't even notice. The only person
that really noticed was my own mother. She actually noticed
that a difference in my walk, So because she's my mother. Yeah,
moms tend to know us pretty well. Because of his
injury for it, was medically retired from the Navy in
(35:23):
November two thousand twelve, a little more than a year
after his surgery. And then, what are you doing with
yourself at that point? What you know, what are you
doing all day. I mean, I'm not looking I'm not
like a full blown alcoholic or anything, though. But there
was a while, kind of a few years after I
got out where I spent a lot of time kind
of to put lightly drinking and partying. So what if
(35:46):
you were not putting it lightly. I was really big
into the goth uncan metal seem growing. Um, so I
go some of the gothus in San Diego and I'd
get kind of really really fucked up. I remember, I
think one time kind of like puking on a park
(36:07):
bench somewhere. I think, you know, because when I got
I had, you know, a good deal of money in
the bank, and that combined with my mental health at
that time obviously not a good situation before it. Saw
a therapist when he was still at Balboa and got
diagnosed with PTSD. He continued seeking therapy off and on
(36:28):
in the years after he got out, which helped, but
there were other problems related to his traumatic brain injuries
that didn't seem to improve with therapy. To this day,
I have problems with like memory, remembering things, um, staying focused,
reacting a certain situations, sometimes overreacting. The drinking helped him
cope with his mental issues for a while, but it
(36:51):
also made him gain back the weight he'd worked so
hard to lose. He was on a cocktail of pain meds, too,
and he worried about becoming dependent. He'd come so far
from that aimless kid who called the Navy recruiter desperate
for a change, and he didn't want to go back there,
for it. Was determined not to let himself slide further,
(37:11):
so he cut down on his drinking and weaned himself
from the pain mets. He started hitting the gym and
got back to a healthier weight. He enrolled in college
and started working towards a psychology degree, but Sangin kept
dragging him back. So, for you, what do you think
was harder overcoming your physical injury or dealing with the
(37:31):
release of all that pressure and stress and dealing with
the memories of everything that happened? What do you what
do you think was at the time harder for you?
And what do you think is harder now? The second one,
both back then and now kind of because I mean
going back and remembering the day I lost this. Honestly,
that didn't I would say, mentally mess with me as
(37:54):
much as it did when McDaniels died. Yeah, take over again. Thanks,
We'll be back after the break. I told for It
(38:54):
that we would stop anytime. He wanted to take a
break and collect himself. So we grab a couple more
shiners from the free age, and after a few minutes
we picked back up talking about McDaniels that day. Going
back on that day, I would say that day definitely
has messed with him more e mentally than did Actually
losing the leg I learned to walk again wasn't really
that big of a deal for me, for It says
(39:17):
his biggest hurdle was his conscience. He blamed himself for
McDaniels death, and he worried that the McDaniels family would
blame him too. In two thousand thirteen, he had an
opportunity to meet Brent McDaniels, Josh's dad. I was a reunion.
We went to DC and got to visit the tum
(39:39):
of the Unknown Soldier for It spotted Brent McDaniels immediately
in the crowd of former Marines and family members. He
looked exactly like an older version of Josh. I know
he would say to me, I know if he would
if he'd like claim me for what happened. But we talked,
and I don't gett mootional, but yeah, we we talked
(40:03):
and he said he didn't you know, he understood everything
that happened, and that definitely did take a laugh my shoulders.
So take a breaking quick one. Okay, thanks, take a breath,
just breathe. We can stop, but just we're not gonna
stop rolling in front. Just breathe and and we'll pick
(40:25):
back up again when you're ready. Yeah, it's still something
that does bother me to this day. But you know,
listening to Brent and you know, hearing him how he said, like, hey,
I understand you did all you could do really did
help me out a lot. It helped me out in
(40:48):
more ways. Again, like I said, I'm trying to compose myself.
So but yeah, none of this is your fault. Survivor
is guilty, and so tell people who don't know what
survivor's skill is. Essentially, when you feel responsible for something
that I would say wasn't necessary, your fault in these
(41:09):
kinds of situations. So something that kind of dealt with
off and on throughout the years. For it, still has
trouble talking to his family about his war experiences and
the baggage he came home with, including his survivor's guilt.
But that second family, his military family, he can still
lean on them. Usually when I've talked with them, I
(41:31):
can be a little bit more kind of honest and
everything about it. When it comes to those kind of
like more kind of emotional and gruesome things that happened,
That's generally what I usually talk about with and with them,
you don't have to worry about freaking them out. Yeah,
that's what their reaction is going to be in everything.
(41:52):
And is it important to have those kinds of people
in your life, like people like Mendoza you can oh yeah,
I mean all the both my squad platoon. They've helped
me out a lot, So I definitely love them my family.
I'm really happy to hear you say that. Actually, thanks
(42:15):
the love between people who served together in such extreme circumstances.
And it really is love, isn't it before it says
that love makes it possible to live with the rest
of it. I feel like in the long run, I've
(42:36):
made a lot of really close connections with people. I mean,
if I had never joined, I'd never have been any
of these people I'd still be working a shitty job
in retail. You know. Physically, it's fucked me up, you know,
losing a leg, dealing with having PTSD and anxiety issues
and stress issues and issues with alcohol and such. But
(43:01):
be honest, I don't regret joining or anything, and then
necessarily don't regret you know, going to Afghanistan. It would
have been nice, nicer to have gotten a little bit
more training, to be a little bit more prepared because we,
like and we were just kind of rushed out the
door pretty much. But you did the best you could
with what you had. Yeah. Yeah, it has changed me
(43:23):
in terms of outlook on life and everything. Has maybe
very thankful for being alive and that you know, things
could have been a lot worse. Yeah. Fuck, it's not fair. Well,
life's not fair. So I mean, again going back by me,
(43:44):
I've never I don't really like to complain about these
things because you know, in general, I don't I've never
believe life, for the most part is necessarily should be fair.
I think that's just how it is. I think that's
just how the universe is and everything. It's you know,
that's just how things are. I guess I'm just glad
to be still here and talking to both of you.
(44:15):
I promised for it, I'd make him dinner. So I
tossed some Elk sausage and the skillet and warm up
left over sauer kraut and mashed potatoes. It feels good
to step away from the awkwardness of the mics and
stretch our legs. We keep rolling from a distance. I
think it's actually very courageous. Thank you. I really do.
(44:38):
You know, in some ways, I think it's easier to
go into a gunfight, that is, to talk about this,
so you know what I mean. Yeah, it's not fun.
It hurts like going back to what you said and
I'm talking about Nick Daniels's father. You know. It definitely
helped me out, But is that has taken a while
(45:02):
and I get over a bit. Well, you don't have
to get over you just have to grow around it.
I don't want to say I know what you've been through,
because I don't. I really don't. But if I can
suggest that I've tasted a sliver of it, I know
what it feels like to wonder why why somebody else
(45:26):
got it, didn't I tell for it? How two guys
from my unit got killed in a suicide bombing. It
was during my own deployment to a Rock in two
thousand four, And I tell him about losing more friends
over the years to the wars in a Rock and Afghanistan,
and how hard it's been to live with my own
sadness and guilt in my own life. Um, what I
(45:52):
come around too is that it's like a tree that
gets struck by lightning, or it's like somebody who loses
a limb. You can walk, but you're never gonna get
that one back. That tree that gets hit by lightning
and gets split in half but doesn't die, It's never
gonna be unsplit in half. It will grow around that injury,
will incorporate that injury into whatever it becomes. That thing
(46:16):
that it becomes would be just as alive, be just
as beautiful, it will be just as whole. Just we'll
have that scar. And sometimes a scar hurts, sometimes a
scarf robs. Sometimes you feel that missing limb, but you
grow around it. You don't have to forget it, you
don't have to move past it, you know, you know,
(46:37):
I actually get kind of upset when people are like, oh,
how do you find closure? How did you move past that,
or it's time for you to put this on. Yeah, yeah,
it's just the clear indicator. You have no fucking idea
what you're talking about. We drive for it back to
(46:59):
Mendoza apartment after dinner, and I offered to come back
in the morning to take him to the airport for
his ten am flight. Good morning, So do you know
what terminal you're flying out of? Oh? Yeah, American Airlines.
I think it's terminal too. Okay, all right, here we
go rocking the shorts. I like it. Yeah, it makes
(47:23):
a travel easier. Actually, yeah, so I don't have to
like show them the leg, right, I think the are
acs he makes it. It It just makes it more up streamlined.
They have to wipe down my leg and everything for
our security purposes. So it just makes like I said,
it just makes it my life way more easier, just
to wear shorts at the airport. On the drive, Ford
(47:44):
tells me he's giving up on his college plans once
and for all. He says he's going to become a plumber.
He's planning to move to Houston to enroll in a
nonprofit training program that's free for veterans, and to be
near Manny Mendoza, his friend from Third Squad. But for now,
for it's headed back home to San Diego, where he's
working as a security guard at a storage facility to
(48:06):
supplement his v A disability checks. Near the airport, we
passed a couple of huge glass and steel buildings with
the familiar name emblazoned in big red letters on a
sign out front Haliburton Headquarters. It's funny interack and Afghanist end,
and then yeah, Haliburton is the oil services beheamoth that
Dick Cheney ran before he became George W. Bush's vice president.
(48:30):
The company made tens of billions of dollars in government
contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan, one clear winner in the
war since nine eleven. You might call it the ability
of the beast. In our last few minutes together, I
asked for it. If he has any questions for me,
I mean the other other, I mean like, I mean,
(48:52):
how you feel I guess about you know, the situation
we're in over there? Oh boy, so we got the
point four miles terminal. I feel like we've made a
lot of mistakes that have gotten a lot of people
killed and a lot of people hurt. And cause a
(49:14):
lot of political and cultural problems that are going to
take generations to fix, if they can ever be fixed
at all. And I think, you know, for me, the
biggest frustration over the last fifteen years since I came
home from Iraq is that all of this suffering has occurred,
and most Americans don't seem to give it a passing
(49:37):
thought on a day to day basis. And for me,
that's just really frustrating, and it makes me really upset.
And you know, I had to spend years trying to
tamp down that anger and frustration and try to try
to channel it into something productive, which is a big
part of the reason why I wound around talking to
you guys, because you know, it helps me feel a
(49:59):
little bit less loan to reconnect to the people who
I was with as a journalist over there and to
people that I served with, to try to take our
stories and and remind people that all of this happened.
You know, it seems like at least I can do.
But no, I mean, I've been pretty upset about it
all these years. I've been pretty Yeah, i'd pretty I
(50:20):
would definitely say I feel kind of the same way
I've come coughed back and forth in my mind a
bit kind of try to like justify it, but overall
I completely agree with you on that. Yeah, well here
we are. I'll just pull up right up here. Thank
(50:47):
you very time. Good see me again. Goodn't see to
keep you in touch, and yeah, if anything, just let
me know, I will thank you. Thanks so much for
finally reaching out. I'm really glad to me, I'm kind
of looking at you. I think I'm black. I got
a lot of stuff off my chest, so good. Yeah, yeah,
(51:19):
h what are you feeling that? Just I could see
that as he was saying goodbye, saying that it actually
that he was glad that he talked, that he was
getting emotional, and I just think it's really brave for
(51:43):
people like him to be willing to to tell their stories.
And I just got so lucky. I just got so
fucking lucky in every single way to not get hurt physically,
to get out of all this ship with my brain
mostly whole um, and so to be around these guys
(52:04):
and for them to trust me to talk about the
most difficult things in their lives, and to bring up
all this stuff that they don't talk about with anyone
it's just a it's really hard. I mean it's it's
really hard, and it's really rewarding, but it's also feels
(52:24):
like a huge amount of responsibility, and you know, I
have to keep it together. I have to. I can't
break down in front of these guys. I have to
listen to them. It's kind of the story of the
story of my life in a certain way. So yeah,
sometimes it just sneaks up on me. Sometimes it just
(52:47):
sneaks up on me and grabs me when I least
expect it. Next time on third Squad, we stay right
(53:20):
here in the Houston suburbs to meet up with Manny Mendoza.
That is sound really fucked up, because I didn't want
to make her worried, so I told her I was
an electrician. Well, I was in the Marine Corps. Yeah,
I didn't tell ours infantry until the night before I left.
That's a big fun lie. Yeah. As soon as the
(53:42):
sun comes up and we're out there looking for pieces
and we found him everywhere. It feels wrong talking about
this um feels disrespectful when n't you know, I just
felt like I gave up, or actually I did give up.
(54:02):
I was like, let's just put it all away. Now,
Let's just put it all away. Third Squad is written
(54:23):
and produced by Elliott Woods, Tommy Andres, and Maria Byrne.
It's an Heirloom Media production distributed by iHeart Media, funding
support from the National Endowment for the Humanities and collaboration
with the Center for Warren Society at San Diego State University.
Original music by Mondo Boys, editing and sound design by
(54:43):
John Ward. Fact checking by Ben Kalin. Special thanks to
Scott Carrier, Benjamin Bush, Caitlin ash Carry, Gracie, Kevin Connolly,
and Lena Ferguson. If you'd like to see my photographs
from Sangin and from our road trip, please visit Ward
Squad dot com. You can find me on Instagram and
Twitter at Elliott Woods m
Third Squad is a documentary podcast about war. All episodes
contain strong language and graphic descriptions of violence that may
not be suitable for all listeners. M I don't break
(00:23):
down crying very often. It's not like I'm a tough
guy or anything. It just doesn't really happen, even in
the privacy of my own home, until one day it
does in the driver's seat of a rental car and
the departures lane at George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston.
(00:46):
I'm Elliott Woods. This is Third Squad Episode three, The Guilt.
It's the first Saturday of March. Third Squad producer Tommy
(01:08):
Andres and I have miles to cover between San Diego
and our next stop, Houston, Texas, where we're gonna visit
Manny Mendoza, that hard working kid from the Texas border
town who joined the Marines because of nine eleven. We
turn away from the Pacific Ocean and soon we're cutting
across the desert within sight of the Mexican border, West
(01:29):
Texas town of Mexicans we got. We hit El Paso
just after dark. We wolfed down some Mexican food, and
then we're back on I tent heading deep into the
(01:49):
heart of Texas. We're making great time, but we're not
supposed to be this far along yet. There was another
Third Squad veteran in the San Diego area who we
were hoping to meet up with. Third Squad's Navy corman,
Matthew for It, who the guys called Doc. Here. He
is telling me about his job back at patrol based
fires in two thousand eleven. Yeah, I'm pretty much supposed
(02:10):
to think of an actual doctor out here, but it
is a lot more than that, because I'm also handling
like not just the major emergencies, but minor emergencies as well,
like when these guys get like sick with colds or
when they get like a sucking like rash they know
any thing about, or whether you know, I'm the one
person they turned to. It wasn't hard to find for
its contact information when I started tracking down Third Squad
(02:32):
last winter, but my calls and text went unanswered for months,
and it's been pretty disappointing to think I might not
get to talk to him. Because none of the Third
Squad veterans had a more intimate perspective on the physical
destruction caused by I. E. D. S Or a more
crushing burden of responsibility in the immediate moments after an explosion.
(02:53):
But there's another reason I want to talk to for it.
Something big happened to him after I left Sangin, and
I've never heard a story firsthand. I just about given
up on for it when somewhere in West Texas, my
phone rings and I see his name on the caller.
I d We turn on the recorder. Yeah, I figured
(03:15):
I got your name. I got your name saved in
my phone. How are you doing? Man? All right? What's
what's new? What's going on? Under? You're gonna be in Yes,
before it cuts right to the chase, he says he's
going to be in Houston while we're there, and he'll
actually be staying with Mendoza, the same guy we're on
our way to see. He says he got my messages
(03:38):
and he's willing to talk, which is a huge relief,
But he says he doesn't have much time, so we
make a plan to meet up as soon as we
get into town. All right, well, cool, thanks for calling.
Bye bye. We drive into the early hours of the morning,
catch a few hours asleep at an off ramp hotel
(04:00):
an oil country, and we hit Houston the following afternoon.
In a stroke of luck, we find a last minute
airbnb just up the road from Mendoza's apartment. It turns
out to be a strange place, like it was decked
out by someone on a bad Honky tonk acid trip.
The walls are painted Fanta orange and decorated with no name,
(04:21):
forty five and cheap cowboy hats, and the only light
in the room comes from a single bulb and a
dingy ceiling fan. To make matters worse, every surface in
the place is rock hard, right up to the glass
coffee table, which means the acoustics are going to be terrible.
But to quote the late Donald Rumsfeld, you go into
an interview about war with the airbnb you have not
(04:43):
the one you want. We barely have time to settle
in before Mendoza's pick up pulls into the driveway. Howie, partners,
how's it going? All right? Yeah? Alright, yeah, I haven't
(05:04):
seen these guys in ten years. Mendoza looks more or
less the same, with a shock of gray hair and
a bit more roundness to his cheeks, but for it
looks totally different in the portrait I took of him
and sang in back in two thousand eleven. He's clean
shaven and has a strong tan line from his sunglasses
and helmet. His head is buzzed and his cheeks are
(05:25):
all hollowed out. But the guy standing before me now
has wavy red hair slicked back and hanging down to
his shoulders. He's got a full beard and black rimmed glasses.
He's wearing Doc Martin's with jeans and a black T
shirt stretched over his belly with the logo of a
metal band called Three Teeth. For It has apparently left
(05:47):
the high and tight military culture in the dust. We're
gonna catch up with Mendoza later. He hops in his
truck and takes off for work, and we step inside
with for It. Oh yeah, this place is kind of weird.
We looked for the closest Airbnb two okay where Mendoza lives,
(06:10):
and it's a little Yeah, it's a little strange. Somebody
really likes to decorate before it's got a flight back
to San Diego in the morning. We only have a
couple of hours and we have a lot to talk about,
so we grab a couple of shiner box from the
fridge and jump right into it. It's really great that
we were able to get in touch, and I'm really
(06:31):
glad that you're here. I was starting to think maybe
we weren't going to get to talk to you, So
thanks for agreeing to do it. I really appreciate it.
And it's important to say right up front that I
know a lot of this stuff was not easy to
talk about then and it's not easy to talk about now,
and it's pretty accurate. I'm interested to know what you
(06:51):
were feeling when you saw my messages and when you
you heard that I wanted to talk to you, and
why that made you nervous. And I'm not trying to
put you on the spot, but just what did that
conjure up for you or what were you feeling? You know?
I mean, I think it just brought back a lot
of bad memories from that time. So I kind of like,
I mean, you know, and really, like I said, I'm
not really good you know, these kinds of things and
(07:14):
these kinds of interviews and such, So I guess like
I got nervous. If you will, I can see four.
It's anxious. He's literally recoiling from the microphone. But back
in sang In he was one of the most open
of the whole bunch in his interview from two thousand
eleven has stuck with me more than most over the
last decade, especially his vivid descriptions of treating casualties during
(07:38):
the June curse. I remember you saying that after this
string of I e d S in June, that you
were justifiably, let's just say that all of your senses
were firing on all cylinders at all times. It accurate. Yeah,
I guess I'm just trying to understand like the daily
level of fear and anxiety and what that felt like, Like,
what did it feel like to live with at every day?
(08:03):
I guess so to as sent kind of aged me
a bit and kind of definitely I know, stress as
a lot has a big impact on your physical health.
We have a lot of guys who started to losing
their hair, started turning gray earlier, like dudes who are
in they're like not even past, started to get like
bald spots and gray hair. Everyone was worried about getting
(08:25):
blown up before it carried an extra load. He knew
that whenever an I e d went off, the casualties
lives would be in his hands, and he would have
a matter of minutes at most to stop the bleeding,
very large amount of pressure. As soon as you go out,
you never know, you know, is this day going to
be the day when something happens. And I'm the one
(08:50):
thing that's going to determine whether or not someone's going
to be able to go home again or whatnot. Back
when I met Ford and sang and he was just
trying to get through the days one at a time,
hoping like hell, there wouldn't be any more I E
d s, but always preparing himself for the next one.
(09:12):
He was impossibly far from the West Chicago suburbs where
he grew up. For it wasn't a gung ho teenage
recruit like some of the third Squad guys. In high school,
he got teased because of his weight two seventy pounds
at just five ft eleven inches tall. His size was
a big problem for him when he first started thinking
(09:33):
about joining the military. He told me about it when
I interviewed him at Peepee Fires in two thousand eleven,
Like I really tried wanted to join then about two
years ago. Um I had the weight though, because I
had traveled with my weight, like I was a little
bit like overweight, so i'd like worked out for a
little while and that I was able to join along
with this weight for it. Struggled in high school with
(09:55):
the learning disability called disc graphia that made it hard
for him to write clearly. He up bullied and had
a hard time making friends. In his own words, he
was a loner. He spent his free time playing computer
games and listening to metal and goth music. After graduation,
he took a crack at community college, but he dropped
out and got a couple of jobs working back room
(10:16):
stock at big box stores. He was twenty three and
still living with his parents when he started worrying that
his life was going nowhere, so he called a Navy recruiter.
At first, he thought it would be cool to be
a Master at Arms, basically the Navy's version of a
police officer. But by the time he cut enough weight
to ship to boot camp, that job wasn't available anymore,
(10:39):
and so they d me off the whole list of
different jobs, and they had told me about Corman. Asked
what Corman was Corman? Basically they said he do two thinks.
You neither a work in hospital or you go with
the Marines pretty much as a field medic. So I said, okay,
I'll take that. When for it, finally signed his enlistment papers.
He became the third generation in his family to join
(11:00):
the Navy before its. Parents were proud of him, but
it was a time of war and they worried about
his decision to become what's known as a greenside Corman,
one who serves with the Marines. Before it had made
up his mind, he went off to boot camp in
Hospital Corman School, close to home at Great Lakes Naval
Station north of Chicago, where he did pretty well. Back
(11:21):
when I was in high school, I was always good
at science and biology, and I used to be and
I used to being the boy Scouts, and I knew,
you know, already new a little bit about first aid
and ship. So that's why why when I got to
course school, it was pretty easy. There will be no
easy days after court school for its next stop was
(11:44):
Field Medical Training Battalion or fm TB at Camp Pendleton's,
where he learned how to treat casualties and the mayhem
of ground combat. Then he completed a grueling live tissue
course where he and his fellow trainees had to treat
live pigs and goats with real life threatening in reasons
simulated battles, the blood was real and live tissue training,
(12:05):
and four it took it seriously. He knew that he
was going to get fast tracked to Afghanistan, where the
life and death scenarios would not be simulations and where
the blood would be Marines. Pretty much like every day
on n FMTV, all we heard was just basically three five,
this and three you know, all the like. It was
(12:25):
like every day seemed like three five was taking casualties,
especially Corman. It seemed like they're losing Corman left and right.
When I got here, of the company that we replaced,
only like two of the original Corman remained. Everybody else
had either have been like blown up or shot or something.
So yeah, when I got here, I was paranoida as
(12:47):
hell for its paranoia was entirely reasonable. In two thousand eleven,
Sangin was one of the most dangerous places on the planet.
Three five, the battalion that for its unit replay, had
twenty five marines killed and a hundred and eighty four
wounded during their seven months tour. That's almost one in
(13:07):
every five Third Squad hit the ground that April, and
for a couple of months things were quiet, but the
grace period expired and on June twelve, two thousand eleven,
for its training would be put to the test in
the most serious way. We're going up to uh third
platoon was to resupply them. And I was like in
(13:29):
the back of which all when we first heard the explosion,
I saw this big as huge, sixty ft mushroom cloud
just shoved in the air, and I was just like
the first thing I did, I just spread it towards
the front of the patrol and as soon as I
(13:52):
crossed the bridge, that's when the second I e d
went up and that's what I got hit. When I
got blown up, like I lost my hearing for a
couple of seconds. I just stumbled. I kind of felt
straight to my knees. I ain't black out, but I
(14:15):
just cost sat there confused for a couple of seconds
to wanting what the hell was going on. And then
when the dust cleared, they died. The dude who was
in from the lance corporatellot, I just saw his entire
face was just covered in blood. First thing I did,
I just looked down to make sure I was still okay,
and make sure I still had my legs and arms,
and then I just went straight to McDaniels. He's talking
(14:38):
about Joshua McDaniels, Third Squads combat Engineer. When I got
to him, he had been pretty much like his legs
were gone almost at least the flesh round his legs
were gone, almost up to his waist, but pretty much
like I would say, six yes, six inches below his
hip was like where had stopped, and everything else below
(15:01):
that was just bone. The blast had shot straight up
into him, and like I said, his genitals had been well,
they were intact, had been pushed up into his abdomen,
and everything else around his perineum and on the other
(15:22):
side of his thighs were just torn up. It was
it looked like seed. It was pretty much just searried
raw flesh. First off, I tried getting the tourniquets on him. Um,
(15:43):
like I said, his the flesh around his leg was
pretty much gone, almost the point where it was like
it was hard to get a turning in on. I
go why I had like even like the metal, I
had a little bit difficulty just trying to get on
because it was like slipping off his leg almost so,
and I like, I applied like three TURNI kits on
his right leg and one metal one his left leg,
(16:07):
which had a little bit more flesh on it than
the other one, and then that began stuffing both his
wounds love as much gauze and combat cause that I
had just trying to get the bleeding stopped by tricking
an ivy start on him, but his veins were just
too blown out. He had lost too much blood, and
he was starting to go into unconsciousness and starting to
lose a pulse. What I did was, I like, I
(16:30):
grabbed an EpiPen and just injected with them. If you
give someone an emty pens at them with a drill
and it gets their pulse right back up and the
blood pressure backup. So that's what I did, and after
that I was able to actually get when pulse sign
him and then we got him on the brig So
(16:55):
what's going through your head when you're when you're doing
all that stuff? I was just basically like pretty much
just pretty much like it, just constantly saying to myself,
fuck my life over and over again. I just got
blown off myself. After that, I saw it was a
little bit panicky as well, but I just like just
win there and just like you know do I thought
(17:17):
was right to try to save them. McDaniels was beyond saving,
and the I E. D That killed him was only
the first of several that day. By the time the
dust settled, sixteen other men had been wounded, including for It.
Three of them lost limbs. For its ear drums got
blown out on June twelve, and he suffered a traumatic
(17:39):
brain injury that made him want to puke every time
he moved for days. The nausea eventually subsided, but he
couldn't stop obsessing over the details of that day. After
the incident, I was kind of like going through the
mine to myself, maybe I should have done this. May
ship done that. I told the core any other corner
around me would happen. They said, hey, you did you
know you'd do what you could do. You did the
(18:01):
best of you can. There's not a whole lot you
could have done for him for it. Had a new
appreciation for his training and a new awareness of its limits. See, like,
the problem with like course school is that like evil
with your patient assessment and you're like, okay, what you
do with again? Showing what if you do if you
got ampy tee and you know you you explain the
steps and blah blah. But it's not like you get
(18:21):
these clean cut wounds that are like, okay, I packed
you up, your guys. Now you get these wounds that
like you look at your like, holy sh it, how
am I going to fix that? For it learned with
McDaniels that there are some wounds that can't be fixed.
He also learned that his bonds with the Marines went
way beyond professional obligation. When you care for someone and
(18:44):
you tend to like work a little harder to like
for them, it's not just like some random person now,
it's it's like as someone you know. So when you
actually care about your go put them a little more
initiative into treating them, make sure they come back home
safe and alive, and if like something does happen to them,
you just feel like devastable when it does, it like
hits you really harder a lot more than it was
(19:05):
like some random stranger like a hospital or something, because
this is someone you'd like, because it's people like I've
I've spent time with, I like I like talked to
like chill with I consotly see on a regular basis.
Third Squad had become a second family to for it,
but his real family was back in the Chicago suburbs,
(19:26):
so far from Sangon they may as well have been
on another planet like our first mascasts happened. I did
get a chance to talk to my folks, but I
ain't tell them completely what happened because I didn't want
to scare the crap out of them. At least I
wanted to, like, I wanted to wait till we get
back and then tell him everything that happened. But then
they got an email from Templeton's wife explaining what happened
(19:48):
with McDonel's and O'Brien and there, and then I got
next time I took called them after that They're like, hey,
what's going on? And then I told him what was happening.
So now now everybody's pretty much scared out of their
minds sitting in the safety of the Houston suburbs together
all these years later. I want to know what sticks
with for it most from the deployment, I would say
(20:12):
for me, it would definitely be working on on McDaniels
and then afterwards being extremely shook up by the whole
thing and finding out that he passed away on the
bird and everything. The you know smell of like iron
from the blood and everything, and ah, that would be
(20:32):
probably one of the things that bothers me the most.
I would say that still kind of haunts me. There's
another clip from two thousand eleven that I've been thinking
about a lot ever since for it walked in the door. Actually,
I've been thinking about it a lot longer than that.
Tommy cues it up for us, people telling me, I
get get me. It doesn't really really hit you till
(20:52):
you get back to the state and you actually see
their families and ship and you see the guys walking
around with like prosthetics. So it's something. But I have
to probably deal with playing it back. But I mean
I just try to, like, I just try to move on.
That was weird hearing me say that benching prosthetics, I'd
(21:13):
end up with a prosthetic. That was a bit odd.
Here save it. The thing that everyone in third squad
was worried about happened to Ford. He stepped on an
I E. D. We'll be back after the break. So
(21:59):
just so I'm clear, what day was this again? What
was the date on AUGUSTA? Do you remember what you
guys were going out to do. I remember we were
going out to a farm. We found something suspicious by
some dudes house, some dudes farm, and we came back,
(22:20):
waited for e O D two to arrive, and then
we went back out there. That's Explosive Ordinance disposal, basically,
the bomb squad. We had just crossed one of the
canals and I remember taking a few steps forward and
I just the first thing I saw was this kind
of giant dust cloud kind of pop up in front
(22:42):
of me, and that's when you heard the boom. My
first thoughts were, all right, this is it. I'm gone.
I guess I fell to the ground owned I was
dazed for a bit. I know, I wasn't unconscious. I
(23:05):
was just dazed and a little confused for a moment.
Then dust kind of settled down and kind of like
just sat there for a couple of seconds. But I
kind of came to and I kind of first thing
I did was just I just kind of patted myself
down and and I'll be honest, yeah, the first thing
(23:27):
I packed down with my dick because that's a lot
what's That's what a lot of guys do pretty much
in all honesty, and I was like, okay, I'm somewhat okay,
I'm good. I'm still alive and I'm still here. And
that's when I felt the pain in my foot and
I realized that part of my foot was missing. My
(23:48):
guys came rushing forward. They started treating me kind of
like pointed out some things what to do, what not
to do, like to leave the boot on, because that's
kind of what's going to be holding my foot together.
All the Marines had basic medical training, but for it
was the expert, and now there he was coaching his
friends on how to help him. The one thing you
(24:09):
do in those situations, you don't take a lot of
people would want to take the boot off. You don't
do that. That's kind of acting as like accessory split.
So sort of help helping to keep all your stuff
together down there. So then I remember getting a hoist
onto the bird, getting sent to a leather neck. That's
(24:29):
when things kind of got hazy. That's when they started,
I guess, operating on me and everything. I don't really
remember a whole lot from that, I'll be honest to say,
I was high. Was it would be an understatement. I
was pretty much in fucking outer space, the amount of
pain pills I was on. Since you were the corman,
where you usually farther back in the ranger file further back. Yes,
that's why. I think that's why a lot of people
(24:50):
are kind of like shocked by that, because I was
usually the third person from the last, from the end
of the line, so a lot of people walk past it.
I mean that that happens that I forget who told me.
But they had actually done a little experiment where I
think it was the O D. They took a pressure
plate hooked up to a small amount of explosives, like
(25:11):
enough to fill like a firecracker, and they like drove
over it and it was like seventeen times for it
actually went off. The way it was out there, you
can step on one, but it won't go off, and
you never know you were stepping on one. That's how
scary that ship was. Anyone in third squad could have
(25:32):
stepped on that I E. D. And because he was
so far back in the patrol and the Marines marked
where they stepped, some of them probably did step on it.
For it was the unlucky one that day. But that's
not how he sees it. Honestly, I really lucked out.
I found out later on that it was about ten
pounds of explosives and only two pounds actually went off,
(25:54):
obviously if the whole thing went off, and the fact
that they also buried it kind of deep. It was
like pretty like I'd say, about two or three feet deep.
If it weren't for those variables, probably wouldn't be here
before it got meta Act back to the US by
way of Germany, first to San Antonio and then eventually
to his new home, Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego,
(26:14):
about an hour from Camp Pendleton. When is the first
time that you really take stock of your injuries? Right
when I landed in San Antonio, I has lifted up
and I just saw that my foot had looked like
a piece of chunk of meat with a bunch of
(26:35):
like skewers punched through it. They were using a bunch
of pins and to hold it together. And that's that's
when I kind of really realized, Oh wow, how bad
that was? And what did they tell you? What did
the doctors tell you when they first came to talk
to you? Oh, that that they're going to just do
whatever they can to save the foot and everything. The
(26:56):
unsanitary conditions the Marines were exposed to, and sang In
could make injuries like four, it's much worse. They had
no running water and went days sometimes weeks without bathing,
and they were constantly waiting through canals to avoid i e. D. S.
Those canals are basically that's where they throw all their garbage,
all their sewage, bones, stuff like that. At Balboa, for
(27:19):
Its doctors grew concerned about his lack of progress. They
told him those unsanitary conditions may have contributed to a
nightmare infection. The infectious disease doctor took a live culture
from my foot, and I believe what he said was
it was four different types of bacteria just pretty much
(27:42):
eating away at the flesh. He was the one that
noticed that there was this just big, giant like glava
pus leaking from the foot. And they must have had
you on gallons of antibiotics at that. Oh yeah, I
was like I had two separate I vs. In me
of antibiotics and pain killers. Four. It didn't want to
freak out his parents about how dangerous it was, and
(28:04):
sang in, but there was no hiding in anymore. They
flew from Chicago to San Diego as quickly as they
could to be by his bedside. They had to wear
head to tell isolation gowns and maintain distance because before
its weekend immune system he was dazed from the pain medication.
But it was a comfort to have them there, especially
(28:25):
as mom Darlene, So, what was it like for her
to come and find you injured? And she was just
glad I was alive pretty much, and she did get
a little bit emotional. I'm sure it was kind of
hard for her not to be able to touch me
and hugged me and everything. But she was there to
help you, Yeah, to sit out there for a month
with me and San Diego and to help me out
(28:45):
with the severity of his injuries. It was clear that
for it was going to be in the hospital for
a long time. The infection in his foot just kept
getting worse and the aggressive antibiotics didn't seem to be
having any effect. One of the Navy surgeon and laid
out a grim prognosis. He was talking with me and said,
you know, hey, we're gonna leave it up to you
(29:06):
whether or not you want to like take off the
leg or try to save it. We're gonna be honest
with you. We've seen this numerous times, and most of
the time people usually just end up getting it cut off.
They said if if if I tried to save it,
more than likely I'd be still in the impatient for
(29:27):
additional seven months. It was after they got done talking
to me, and actually, that's what I kind of agreed. Okay,
let's just take the leg off. The surgeon amputated for
(29:48):
its infected foot above the ankle, and with the foot gone,
he thought he could finally focus on healing. But then,
lying in his hospital bed at Balboa the night after
his amputation for it, got an unexpected call, Michael Dutcher
was dead. Well that happened, I had pretty much broke
(30:14):
down and started crying like a baby. I had just
gotten the lead cut off when I had heard about him,
and I kind of lost it. But I took his
his death pretty hard for it. Had a special fondness
(30:35):
for Dutcher because Dutcher always had four It's back when
I first got to got the platoon and didn't really
know a whole lot and didn't have any real experience
at the Marines. He kind of helped me out, and
you know when a lot of people weren't really will
willing to help me out, help me, you know, adjust
to the unit. He was always always there and everything.
(30:57):
That chubby kid who had to cut weight to joined
the Navy, struggled to keep up with the Marines, who
pride themselves on being physical beasts. The tactical stuff was
challenging to Dutcher was there to help smooth the way.
He was definitely one of the most helpful Marines. I knew.
He was always always there and everything. So that's probably
(31:21):
my best memories of him. When Ford found out about Dutcher,
he totally shut down. Yeah, that's why I do when I,
like GiB said, I just kind of I do kind
of isolate myself for a bit and then I kind
of move on and such. So, but you know, when
I heard about that, I was straight up devastated. Do
you remember the first person who you talked to about
(31:42):
it after the phone call? Yeah, my mother, she was there.
Third Squad wouldn't be home from Afghanistan for several weeks,
but a few of the guys from PB fires were
recovering with Forward at Balboa, including his original platoon sergeant
and squad leader and one of his fellow corman. They
scrambled to get permission from Naval Medical Command to fly
(32:05):
out for Dutcher's funeral on September for It was hardly
a week out of surgery when pumped full of drugs
and with his corman buddy pushing his wheelchair, he boarded
a plane for North Carolina to say goodbye to Dutch.
I have hard time remembering that right when I got
out of the hospital and I was on a lot
of medication. You know, I have like bits of pieces
(32:28):
of it in my mind. There are some things, for
it does remember clearly, the crowds of people who came
out to the Western Carolina State Veterans Cemetery to pay
their final respects, and the love he felt for the
wounded men who helped him make the trip. They pose
(32:52):
for a picture in front of a sloping field of
identical granite headstones, together, ten of them, five in wheelchairs,
their uniform pants pinned where their limbs used to be.
(33:17):
Back at Balboa, for It eventually healed up enough to
move into his own room and an outpatient facility for convalescence.
With his mom's help, he started learning how to live
as an amputee. Basically came back back and forth right
until I d I got comfortable walking out my prosthetic.
So again, like I said, going back to me and
how how you guys see me walk on my prost
(33:37):
egg right now? That took me like a couple of months.
But it was until, like I said, around April spring
of two thousand and twelve, that's I kind of got
really comfortable with walking on the prosst egg to the
point where I was, you know, almost got most of
my mobility back. The physical rehab was a distraction from
his grief. It gave him something tangible to work on,
(33:59):
and he made progress slowly, but surely. I'm glad they
gave me the choice. And honestly, and I think you
can both probably attest to it. Seeing the walk on
this thing, I feel like I made the right choice.
A lot of people don't even realize them in amputee
unless like show him this. So you're pulling up your
pant leg right now and showing your prosthetics. So tell us,
(34:20):
tell us about this technology. Tell us about your prosthetic,
what it's made out of, and all, okay, Well, the
main base right here is a carbon fiber. I can
just pull it up like this. You've got your your
pant leg rolled up, and there's a blue sock kind
of thing that's over your which would be your calf
basically up to your knee essentially. Yeah, right, I would
(34:41):
say right right up to my I'd say right here,
just past my ankle a bit. That's where that's how
much they took off. The stump swells and retracts with
changes in his diet, which means he has to get
his prosthetic recalibrated or change the number of socks he
wears from time to time. Before it says, all of
that is manageable, So you get around pretty well on
(35:01):
that Like people, people don't even notice. The only person
that really noticed was my own mother. She actually noticed
that a difference in my walk, So because she's my mother. Yeah,
moms tend to know us pretty well. Because of his
injury for it, was medically retired from the Navy in
(35:23):
November two thousand twelve, a little more than a year
after his surgery. And then, what are you doing with
yourself at that point? What you know, what are you
doing all day. I mean, I'm not looking I'm not
like a full blown alcoholic or anything, though. But there
was a while, kind of a few years after I
got out where I spent a lot of time kind
of to put lightly drinking and partying. So what if
(35:46):
you were not putting it lightly. I was really big
into the goth uncan metal seem growing. Um, so I
go some of the gothus in San Diego and I'd
get kind of really really fucked up. I remember, I
think one time kind of like puking on a park
(36:07):
bench somewhere. I think, you know, because when I got
I had, you know, a good deal of money in
the bank, and that combined with my mental health at
that time obviously not a good situation before it. Saw
a therapist when he was still at Balboa and got
diagnosed with PTSD. He continued seeking therapy off and on
(36:28):
in the years after he got out, which helped, but
there were other problems related to his traumatic brain injuries
that didn't seem to improve with therapy. To this day,
I have problems with like memory, remembering things, um, staying focused,
reacting a certain situations, sometimes overreacting. The drinking helped him
cope with his mental issues for a while, but it
(36:51):
also made him gain back the weight he'd worked so
hard to lose. He was on a cocktail of pain meds, too,
and he worried about becoming dependent. He'd come so far
from that aimless kid who called the Navy recruiter desperate
for a change, and he didn't want to go back there,
for it. Was determined not to let himself slide further,
(37:11):
so he cut down on his drinking and weaned himself
from the pain mets. He started hitting the gym and
got back to a healthier weight. He enrolled in college
and started working towards a psychology degree, but Sangin kept
dragging him back. So, for you, what do you think
was harder overcoming your physical injury or dealing with the
(37:31):
release of all that pressure and stress and dealing with
the memories of everything that happened? What do you what
do you think was at the time harder for you?
And what do you think is harder now? The second one,
both back then and now kind of because I mean
going back and remembering the day I lost this. Honestly,
that didn't I would say, mentally mess with me as
(37:54):
much as it did when McDaniels died. Yeah, take over again. Thanks,
We'll be back after the break. I told for It
(38:54):
that we would stop anytime. He wanted to take a
break and collect himself. So we grab a couple more
shiners from the free age, and after a few minutes
we picked back up talking about McDaniels that day. Going
back on that day, I would say that day definitely
has messed with him more e mentally than did Actually
losing the leg I learned to walk again wasn't really
that big of a deal for me, for It says
(39:17):
his biggest hurdle was his conscience. He blamed himself for
McDaniels death, and he worried that the McDaniels family would
blame him too. In two thousand thirteen, he had an
opportunity to meet Brent McDaniels, Josh's dad. I was a reunion.
We went to DC and got to visit the tum
(39:39):
of the Unknown Soldier for It spotted Brent McDaniels immediately
in the crowd of former Marines and family members. He
looked exactly like an older version of Josh. I know
he would say to me, I know if he would
if he'd like claim me for what happened. But we talked,
and I don't gett mootional, but yeah, we we talked
(40:03):
and he said he didn't you know, he understood everything
that happened, and that definitely did take a laugh my shoulders.
So take a breaking quick one. Okay, thanks, take a breath,
just breathe. We can stop, but just we're not gonna
stop rolling in front. Just breathe and and we'll pick
(40:25):
back up again when you're ready. Yeah, it's still something
that does bother me to this day. But you know,
listening to Brent and you know, hearing him how he said, like, hey,
I understand you did all you could do really did
help me out a lot. It helped me out in
(40:48):
more ways. Again, like I said, I'm trying to compose myself.
So but yeah, none of this is your fault. Survivor
is guilty, and so tell people who don't know what
survivor's skill is. Essentially, when you feel responsible for something
that I would say wasn't necessary, your fault in these
(41:09):
kinds of situations. So something that kind of dealt with
off and on throughout the years. For it, still has
trouble talking to his family about his war experiences and
the baggage he came home with, including his survivor's guilt.
But that second family, his military family, he can still
lean on them. Usually when I've talked with them, I
(41:31):
can be a little bit more kind of honest and
everything about it. When it comes to those kind of
like more kind of emotional and gruesome things that happened,
That's generally what I usually talk about with and with them,
you don't have to worry about freaking them out. Yeah,
that's what their reaction is going to be in everything.
(41:52):
And is it important to have those kinds of people
in your life, like people like Mendoza you can oh yeah,
I mean all the both my squad platoon. They've helped
me out a lot, So I definitely love them my family.
I'm really happy to hear you say that. Actually, thanks
(42:15):
the love between people who served together in such extreme circumstances.
And it really is love, isn't it before it says
that love makes it possible to live with the rest
of it. I feel like in the long run, I've
(42:36):
made a lot of really close connections with people. I mean,
if I had never joined, I'd never have been any
of these people I'd still be working a shitty job
in retail. You know. Physically, it's fucked me up, you know,
losing a leg, dealing with having PTSD and anxiety issues
and stress issues and issues with alcohol and such. But
(43:01):
be honest, I don't regret joining or anything, and then
necessarily don't regret you know, going to Afghanistan. It would
have been nice, nicer to have gotten a little bit
more training, to be a little bit more prepared because we,
like and we were just kind of rushed out the
door pretty much. But you did the best you could
with what you had. Yeah. Yeah, it has changed me
(43:23):
in terms of outlook on life and everything. Has maybe
very thankful for being alive and that you know, things
could have been a lot worse. Yeah. Fuck, it's not fair. Well,
life's not fair. So I mean, again going back by me,
(43:44):
I've never I don't really like to complain about these
things because you know, in general, I don't I've never
believe life, for the most part is necessarily should be fair.
I think that's just how it is. I think that's
just how the universe is and everything. It's you know,
that's just how things are. I guess I'm just glad
to be still here and talking to both of you.
(44:15):
I promised for it, I'd make him dinner. So I
tossed some Elk sausage and the skillet and warm up
left over sauer kraut and mashed potatoes. It feels good
to step away from the awkwardness of the mics and
stretch our legs. We keep rolling from a distance. I
think it's actually very courageous. Thank you. I really do.
(44:38):
You know, in some ways, I think it's easier to
go into a gunfight, that is, to talk about this,
so you know what I mean. Yeah, it's not fun.
It hurts like going back to what you said and
I'm talking about Nick Daniels's father. You know. It definitely
helped me out, But is that has taken a while
(45:02):
and I get over a bit. Well, you don't have
to get over you just have to grow around it.
I don't want to say I know what you've been through,
because I don't. I really don't. But if I can
suggest that I've tasted a sliver of it, I know
what it feels like to wonder why why somebody else
(45:26):
got it, didn't I tell for it? How two guys
from my unit got killed in a suicide bombing. It
was during my own deployment to a Rock in two
thousand four, And I tell him about losing more friends
over the years to the wars in a Rock and Afghanistan,
and how hard it's been to live with my own
sadness and guilt in my own life. Um, what I
(45:52):
come around too is that it's like a tree that
gets struck by lightning, or it's like somebody who loses
a limb. You can walk, but you're never gonna get
that one back. That tree that gets hit by lightning
and gets split in half but doesn't die, It's never
gonna be unsplit in half. It will grow around that injury,
will incorporate that injury into whatever it becomes. That thing
(46:16):
that it becomes would be just as alive, be just
as beautiful, it will be just as whole. Just we'll
have that scar. And sometimes a scar hurts, sometimes a
scarf robs. Sometimes you feel that missing limb, but you
grow around it. You don't have to forget it, you
don't have to move past it, you know, you know,
(46:37):
I actually get kind of upset when people are like, oh,
how do you find closure? How did you move past that,
or it's time for you to put this on. Yeah, yeah,
it's just the clear indicator. You have no fucking idea
what you're talking about. We drive for it back to
(46:59):
Mendoza apartment after dinner, and I offered to come back
in the morning to take him to the airport for
his ten am flight. Good morning, So do you know
what terminal you're flying out of? Oh? Yeah, American Airlines.
I think it's terminal too. Okay, all right, here we
go rocking the shorts. I like it. Yeah, it makes
(47:23):
a travel easier. Actually, yeah, so I don't have to
like show them the leg, right, I think the are
acs he makes it. It It just makes it more up streamlined.
They have to wipe down my leg and everything for
our security purposes. So it just makes like I said,
it just makes it my life way more easier, just
to wear shorts at the airport. On the drive, Ford
(47:44):
tells me he's giving up on his college plans once
and for all. He says he's going to become a plumber.
He's planning to move to Houston to enroll in a
nonprofit training program that's free for veterans, and to be
near Manny Mendoza, his friend from Third Squad. But for now,
for it's headed back home to San Diego, where he's
working as a security guard at a storage facility to
(48:06):
supplement his v A disability checks. Near the airport, we
passed a couple of huge glass and steel buildings with
the familiar name emblazoned in big red letters on a
sign out front Haliburton Headquarters. It's funny interack and Afghanist end,
and then yeah, Haliburton is the oil services beheamoth that
Dick Cheney ran before he became George W. Bush's vice president.
(48:30):
The company made tens of billions of dollars in government
contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan, one clear winner in the
war since nine eleven. You might call it the ability
of the beast. In our last few minutes together, I
asked for it. If he has any questions for me,
I mean the other other, I mean like, I mean,
(48:52):
how you feel I guess about you know, the situation
we're in over there? Oh boy, so we got the
point four miles terminal. I feel like we've made a
lot of mistakes that have gotten a lot of people
killed and a lot of people hurt. And cause a
(49:14):
lot of political and cultural problems that are going to
take generations to fix, if they can ever be fixed
at all. And I think, you know, for me, the
biggest frustration over the last fifteen years since I came
home from Iraq is that all of this suffering has occurred,
and most Americans don't seem to give it a passing
(49:37):
thought on a day to day basis. And for me,
that's just really frustrating, and it makes me really upset.
And you know, I had to spend years trying to
tamp down that anger and frustration and try to try
to channel it into something productive, which is a big
part of the reason why I wound around talking to
you guys, because you know, it helps me feel a
(49:59):
little bit less loan to reconnect to the people who
I was with as a journalist over there and to
people that I served with, to try to take our
stories and and remind people that all of this happened.
You know, it seems like at least I can do.
But no, I mean, I've been pretty upset about it
all these years. I've been pretty Yeah, i'd pretty I
(50:20):
would definitely say I feel kind of the same way
I've come coughed back and forth in my mind a
bit kind of try to like justify it, but overall
I completely agree with you on that. Yeah, well here
we are. I'll just pull up right up here. Thank
(50:47):
you very time. Good see me again. Goodn't see to
keep you in touch, and yeah, if anything, just let
me know, I will thank you. Thanks so much for
finally reaching out. I'm really glad to me, I'm kind
of looking at you. I think I'm black. I got
a lot of stuff off my chest, so good. Yeah, yeah,
(51:19):
h what are you feeling that? Just I could see
that as he was saying goodbye, saying that it actually
that he was glad that he talked, that he was
getting emotional, and I just think it's really brave for
(51:43):
people like him to be willing to to tell their stories.
And I just got so lucky. I just got so
fucking lucky in every single way to not get hurt physically,
to get out of all this ship with my brain
mostly whole um, and so to be around these guys
(52:04):
and for them to trust me to talk about the
most difficult things in their lives, and to bring up
all this stuff that they don't talk about with anyone
it's just a it's really hard. I mean it's it's
really hard, and it's really rewarding, but it's also feels
(52:24):
like a huge amount of responsibility, and you know, I
have to keep it together. I have to. I can't
break down in front of these guys. I have to
listen to them. It's kind of the story of the
story of my life in a certain way. So yeah,
sometimes it just sneaks up on me. Sometimes it just
(52:47):
sneaks up on me and grabs me when I least
expect it. Next time on third Squad, we stay right
(53:20):
here in the Houston suburbs to meet up with Manny Mendoza.
That is sound really fucked up, because I didn't want
to make her worried, so I told her I was
an electrician. Well, I was in the Marine Corps. Yeah,
I didn't tell ours infantry until the night before I left.
That's a big fun lie. Yeah. As soon as the
(53:42):
sun comes up and we're out there looking for pieces
and we found him everywhere. It feels wrong talking about
this um feels disrespectful when n't you know, I just
felt like I gave up, or actually I did give up.
(54:02):
I was like, let's just put it all away. Now,
Let's just put it all away. Third Squad is written
(54:23):
and produced by Elliott Woods, Tommy Andres, and Maria Byrne.
It's an Heirloom Media production distributed by iHeart Media, funding
support from the National Endowment for the Humanities and collaboration
with the Center for Warren Society at San Diego State University.
Original music by Mondo Boys, editing and sound design by
(54:43):
John Ward. Fact checking by Ben Kalin. Special thanks to
Scott Carrier, Benjamin Bush, Caitlin ash Carry, Gracie, Kevin Connolly,
and Lena Ferguson. If you'd like to see my photographs
from Sangin and from our road trip, please visit Ward
Squad dot com. You can find me on Instagram and
Twitter at Elliott Woods m
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