And, This Is Michael Savage

Gavin sits down with long-time conservative commentator Dr. Michael Savage to dissect his “Borders, Language, Culture” ideology.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is Gavin Newsom and this is Michael Savage. The
hell are you doing here? Why what are we doing here?
The two of us, of all people.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, we're supposedly political polar opposites, which we probably are. However,
as I say on my TV show, you don't have
to like my politics to like me. And a lot
of people seem to like me but hate my politics.
Some actually like me on my politics, which is the ideal.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I love it. So we've known each other, I mean
full disclosure. So folks may not know this. We've known
each other over the course, on and off for a
couple of decades, now right, I mean back, I remember you.
I was joking with Trump the other day in the
Oval office. I said, you know, before you know, you'd
calling me newscom is not novels discuss Savage had a
version of that early.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
On when I was mayor any twosome news Thank you
very much. Should I tell that story?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
No, you shouldn't all that stories.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's got your great father involved in it. He did
he get involved in it?

Speaker 1 (01:05):
No? I met.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
I was in a North Beach restaurant, which you remember
the heyday of the North Beach restaurant. Come on your
dad may rest in peace. Judge Newsom was there. I
was introduced to him and I said, you were the
Board of Supervisors chairman, and you had just introduced the
gay marriage at resolution. And I said, Judge, your son
just made the biggest career era of his life. He's finished.
And he said, you know, I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Michael. Well, guess what we were both wrong. He did
agree with you. By the way, he was always up.
He was come on old Irish Catholic west side of
San Francisco. And by the way, I remember you remember
this back in the day. That's why you probably shook
my hand. Back then, I ran as the conservative right, and.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I don't remember. Honestly, I don't know what you ran as.
I know that the city was. Look, I came here
in seventy four. I'm an immigrant to San Francisco. My
father was an immigrant to America. I'm a first generation American.
So I have one foot in the old world one
foot in the new. I still see a little bit
of the immigrant and the native of stuff, but I'm
new to the city. It was a great, wide open city.

(02:04):
You could do whatever the hell you wanted. And then
what happened was it went off the rails because ultra
tolerance led to or, as I put it, Governor Newsom,
when anything goes, everything goes.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Got it. It's a good line. It's a good line.
My line. I told my kids. I said, how you
do anything is how you do everything. It's true. So
you got to focus on the detail. How you make
your bed, and it's what how you do everything? You
actually make them make their bed, make them make their beds.
I make my bed too, by the way, But I
believe that. By the way, sometimes my wife doesn't even
believe it because they are a few days off. But

(02:35):
let's talk about you know, you've never taken any time
away from the bayar. I mean, for all, you've been
here since the seventies. Seventy four and you've seventy four.
You went to Berkeley PhD in seventy.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
I heard it in two and a two years and
seven months, which is a world record. No one knows
about it. I came here with two master's degrees. I
was blocked from a PhD in one of the master's
degrees because the field was too advanced. And I came
here and got worked for an independent PhD which was
unheard of. Only seven of them issued a year. At
the time, it was the toughest thing I ever did
in my life. I was so proud to get a

(03:08):
PhD from Berkeley because everyone said to me, that's your
union card. You get that PhD, you're going to be
hired as a professor. Unfortunately, hello, it kicked in. White
males need not apply. I was rejected from every position
I applied for, and I was told point blank that
we can't hire you because we have to fill quota,

(03:28):
as they told it to me.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
So they were very excited. Mean, that's because I remember
you wrote a poem in nineteen seventy seven, right about
white male. You saw that you wrote a poem which
you altered the white male, the Death of the White
in the seventh How do you know that you were
talking about that. Someone gave you a bangground on me.
I've been tracking you. We've been casing savage I did.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
I wrote a hot book called the Death of the
White Male, which no one knows about.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's a pamphlet. Trotzky or Lenin would understand that. By
the way, speaking of Trotsky and Lenin, you were hanging
out with Alan Ginsburg Lawrence fer linged, yes, quite literal. Maybe,
I mean Lawrence Port Lauriate, San Francisco. Oh yeah, many
moons later you had some you know, interesting moments back
there in North Be. Back to North Bes.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
I mean, ass was a friend of the family, Lawrence
and Janet and I. He meant he flew out to
with Alan Ginsburg. Lawrence and Alan flew they were on
the way to Adelaide Arts Festival in Australia, and we
had known them from New York. We know Alan from
New York. And I met Lawrence here and I said,
why don't you stop at our house in Awhi. I

(04:33):
was renting a house going to grad school there, and
they both stopped in. They spent a few days with us,
and that was that. But Lawrence and I stayed on
and on in the years, politically opposites again. Yeah, but
you don't have to hate someone who you don't agree with.
That's that's why I'm here, That's why you invited me here.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
I love that. And but it's I mean, it is
a remarkable journey for you. I mean, if I just
wrote out your resume, those early years, not only were
you in San Francisco and in the Bay Area getting
a pea HD. But it was the PhD in what
it was around nutrition eth no medicine.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Nutritionalth no medicine, which was an interdisciplinary PhD with epidemiology,
human nutrition, and anthropology in a combined hole, which was
an interdisciplinary PhD, which in order to get into that
program you had to go through the heaviest screening program
because a lot of people use bullshit to get into

(05:26):
discipline and do nothing. I had to go through the
toughest people at that university and explain why I wanted
to combine those fields in a new field. And it
was a tough interview. So I got to the PhD
blocked from it. I'd written seven books at the time,
but it still couldn't get a teaching job. So I
got very angry. Gavin, I'm an immigrant son. I want

(05:47):
to be a professor, it's all I want to be
and they're saying because of your race, you can't be hired.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
It's crazy, So you really, I mean, it was that indelibent?
Was that the big shift then for you in terms
of your politics? Did it really become you were like enough?
It was it?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, Gavin, I was a social worker in New York
before I came here, teach your social worker. And I
was going into houses of people on welfare who were
living better than I was. I was living at the
time in a rental apartment. I had wooden furniture crates.
We had a mattress on the floor and orange crates
en tables. So I go into the supervisor at the

(06:20):
welfare office and I say to her, blah blah blah.
She says, well, start writing out checks. Mister Smith gets
six hundred dollars for an end table, eight hundred dollars
for two chairs, nine hundred dollars for a bit. I said,
wait a minute, I don't have that. She said, just
keep writing the checks. And I said, something's wrong with
this system.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
And so you weren't raised necessarily with a strong ideological
Oh no, your parents weren't. That's your father, your mom.
I mean, they weren't out there marching the streets for
a Democrat or Republican. It was none of that.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Nobody knew a Republican in my family or in my circles.
My father was an immigrant, and he would walk the
streets and he would point things out to me and
teach me what the world was about but he would say,
I said, Dad, are you a Democratic Republican? And he
would say, you know, Michael, he said, all I know
is things are better for me when Democrats are in office.
I remember he came through the depression, right. He worked
in the WPA. He got a job as a kid

(07:08):
who had nothing, driving a car for a politician.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I still don't know how he got it. Who did
he know?

Speaker 2 (07:14):
He told me stories of driving some correct politician to
Saratoga Springs. I don't even know the rest of those stories.
So he to him the government intervened in the Great
Depression with the WPA, and it saved.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Him, right, so it shaved his perspective.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
But he didn't understand that. After JFK, who I voted for,
I loved JA. He was one of my heroes. I'll
never forget how he influenced me. When I saw that
picture of him and he said, don't ask what your
country can do for you, but what you can do
for your country. You know that that puts steel in
my spine. I wanted to go out of March and
do something for my country. I love that one good

(07:48):
line can influence a person for a long time.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, there's notion of responsibility, not just opera. It's the
one piece that I think our party continues we continue
to miss well. But we're going to get to that
in a moment. But I just want to talk about
those moments that shaped to you. I mean again, sitting
here talking about nutrition. You were working in a clinic
in San Francisco, Nutritionia. You're writing all these books you were,
I mean, dare I say, and here a bunch of

(08:12):
them right here, one of what, by the way, you
said seven, But you've done twenty nine nine.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Books published, several unpublished. So well, you know, there's two
novels in there, San Francisco. People don't read novels, Abuse
of Power and A Time for War. They're set in
San Francisco, in North Beach, in the North Beach Restaurant
and around there at the time of Lorenzo was alive.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Lorenzo Patroni, that's North Beach Restaurant. So he used three years.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Ago, all the Italian and all the Democrats would meet
in that restaurant, remember, in the back.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Room and the closet of Republicans.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
See, they'd meet there, and one of them once said
to him, he said, Michael, you know what they said
to me. I said, what they said to me? Are
you a right winger? He said, no, I'm not a
right wing. I'm a fascist. That's what Lorenzo said. May
you rest in peace.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
You rest in peace. By the way, I'm survived. He
survived as long as he did. He was usually three
or four bottles at lunch in and then went all night.
Poor man he was, but he was. He was like
a bear, a bear. He was a bear, old world bear,
different generation, but but it so we were shaped so similarly.
I mean, I was the kid in the corner with

(09:20):
my father, with George Moscone, the former mayor, Quentin Kopp,
the former State Center then become judge all that and
that shaped my political beginnings and sort of, you know,
gave me a sense of what the whole political scene
was about in North Beach was really the sort of
it was the neighborhood city hall where real deals were done.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
So, Gabrett, we want to talk about I'm sorry, the
personal stuff and the health stuff. I know that, but
if I don't ask some can I read the bullet points.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
You're bringing notes? I bring nothing. I got the questions.
Can you bring your question? Well, I want to let's
jump in. I'm gonna, but I want to start. Let's
start with this and we'll go back and forth. But
this whole from nutrition is really interesting because it's very contemporary.
Now you've got r fkgu You've got now new Health
and Gearing Service Secretary obviously Trump embracing this notion of

(10:05):
Maha make America healthy again. By the way, I love that.
I love that. Californiak at you. You're not a fat guy. No,
but it's not even about body weight. It's about just
health and wellness, all the stuff you've been preaching and practicing.
You were the original you were, I will say, your
original bunch of things, and we'll get to language, borders,
and culture. Oh wow, and Trump and Trump is because
you were you know, Trump was a Democrat when you

(10:28):
were practicing the full metal polio aware. But this whole
MAHA movement, I mean, you've got to feel pretty good
about that, or do you feel it's a little off
based and not necessarily is it well established in the
sort of cornerstone of your your more academic thinking.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, So I was a big element of the alternative
health movement in California from the time I got here
herbal medicine, homeopathy, nutrition, wrote books on it. I knew
all the leaders. I knew Linis Polling, I knew Bob Cathcot,
I knew Richard Kunyan. These were the genius geniuses in
the field. Here's the problem with RFK Junior. He said,

(11:01):
Johnny come lately to the field. I like what he's doing.
He doesn't have the nuance or the subtlety to understand
a lot of it. And even when he was appointed,
I was sending messages to Trump saying, you can't eliminate
the entire Health and Human Services Department. There are some
good sciences and the scientists and the nih You can't
throw the baby out with the bath water. Slow down.
All revolutionaries, as you know, left and right, want to

(11:23):
start from the beginning. You can't do it. You can't
fire every scientist. I try to tell him that, and
I try to get on the good side of RFK Junior.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Without any look.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Russ was skiing and asked, and if you were sitting,
you know who was on the chair next to him,
RFK Junior. So he said to him who he is?
And he says, you know who my dad is. And
he says Michael Savage, and he says, Wow, he's a
great guy.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
But you know, I've never talked to him RFK all
these years. No, I still haven't gotten to him. Interesting,
despite the fact that you've been at this longer than
he's been there.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I would like to help as an advisor on the
alternative medicine side of his revolutionary quest. And I also
would like to offer you, Gavin some as the governor
of this great state where I've been since seventy four,
don't you have a health task force alternative medicine?

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Of course, No, we've been. We're about wellness, about health care,
not sick care. We've been focused on all the issues
around ultra processed food, free meals, nutritious meals, focusing on
farm to fork, focusing on proximity to agriculture, focusing on
small farms and regentative farming, all the component parts and
all this, I mean a lot of it, of course,
is weaponized politically. I did quote unquote the Skittles Band

(12:29):
a couple of years ago. The same folks and the
right we're attacking the Skittles Band, which was about red dye.
Now they're embracing and celebrating it. The kinnam before.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
I wrote about it in nineteen seventy four in a
book called Bugs in the Peanut Butter.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (12:41):
It was a book for children about all the dangers
and everyday foods. People thought I was crazy.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
But do you have a commission on alternative health, homeopathy, nutrition,
herbal medicine.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
We have, you know, not full I mean it's represented
in health bodies, but it's not fully.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Represent the State of California should be leading the world
in all these alternative I think modalities. You have tons
of practitioners in those fields in this state.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Tell are you? I mean we may negotiate fifty cents.
I'm so curious. I mean, look, I joke about language
called borders, language called culture, my motto your I mean,
it's just indelible. I was listening to you as a supervisor,
is listening to you as mayor not just because we

(13:28):
ran into each other, not just because I knew your
son Russ and love your wife Janet. You're the most
entertaining person in personality period, full stop and storyteller. On
the radio, you were.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
I'm a good story Well, I tell stories because they're
part of life and education. Is about telling stories. A
good teacher tells a story, doesn't just beat you up
with facts. So if I can tell a story about
my life and it tell it makes a political point, fine,
So let me tell a political story. If I may
about five years ago I had a heart attack. Yeah, okay,
hearing Marin County. Yes, so I'm right to Marine General.

(14:01):
I have to wait online. It's filled with illegal aliens.
And the girl at the desk makes me wait. I said,
I'm dying. Do you want to say what I called?
The car he's waiting for me, and she starts driving
me through like hooks. I said no, and I walk
into the er room and they hooked me up and
do this stuff. So income too, huge two hundred and
fifty pound black bodyguards because they heard there was a

(14:22):
troublemaker in the emergency room. So here's this little Jewish
guy in the surny with wires and plugs in him.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
And I said, yeah, I'm the one who was causing
trouble out there.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
They laughed and they left, and I said, why do
I have to wait to get into an emergency room
when I pay more taxes than any ten thousand of them?

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Do you know what. That's why we do preventive care.
That's why with a different approach, because we have sick
care in the emergency room that's universal all across this country.
Well I told you above access all across the country
who's sailors instance as you are, and sabstantially higher prices
on the back end for the emergency.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
See, this is where we disagree, because you can't give
first world excellent medical ok to everyone on the planet.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Michael was going bankrupt. No, and I appreciate it, but honestly,
I mean that sincerely. What would you do to the
person that was just hit by a car, that was
here for fifteen years taking care of your elderly grandparents
in an elder care facility and they end up in
the emergency room. You say, no, you're not going to
get that.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Of course, you're going to give them care. First of all,
it's not only in your Maine, but it's available to them.
But that's not what we're talking about. There are people
coming over the border just for expensive surgeries, just for
expensive By.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
The way, a few years ago, I remember people going
south of the border into Tijuana from San Diego because
it was cheaper to get some quality care in Mexico.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Telebody, if you talk about borders, language and culture, which
you introduced, and I think it's very important.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Everyone knows it's my mantra. Why aren't you asking it?
By the way, when was it your mantra? I mean
ninety four were people talking like that in the early nineties.
They were starting to a little bit right now Prop
ninety seven in California. Oh you remember, so there was
a little of that, but you but you really coined
that frame.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Okay, So I created the poll of your society in
ninety four here in California, which no longer exists.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
And the motto, how to write a card up? What
do we stand for?

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Border's language, culture? So nobody truly understood it. But there's
not a country on earth that is not defined by
its borders, unified by its language, and doesn't have a
common culture. And when you lose all of that, you
lose the nation. I don't care what the nation is.
It could be a small African nation, a small Caribbean nation.
They're defined by their border's language and culture.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
How old does that?

Speaker 2 (16:23):
People understand? So when let me just finish the border thing.
Even China built the Great Wall of China to protect
its border. Why because the Mongols were invading China. So
I'm a total believer in the sovereignty of a nation.
I don't know how anyone can argue with that.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Right, And I mean there are some that obviously do,
but I'm not among them. By the way, California we
put down almost four hundred, three hundred and ninety four
National Guards since the week I first became governor to
supplement and support customs and border patrol at the border,
to address some of the issues of fentanyl and some
of the border security concerns.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
So I you agree with Trump then on cracking down
on the flood of illegals into the nation.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I think there's a way of doing it and approaching it,
and I think we have a broader problem, which is
immigration policy and asylum abuse. The asylum system is broken
in the United States. You have the power to do
something about it in the state, don't you. Well, not directly,
and we have no border direct border except for supplementing
our support, which we again have been doing for years
and years and years.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
So he has a great statement that no one's going
to expect from me, where I probably I am to
the left of view on something I love with immigration
that people don't understand. I know of a person who
was here twenty years from Mexico. He's worked seven days
a week, he's paid taxes. He can't become a citizen.
That's wrong.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
I'm with you. Something's wrong with that. That's why we
talk about the border, which is critical. Not even a
traffic ticket. I appreciate you. It's not even a traffic ticket.
Now you haven't So this is interesting. Just the last
comprehensive survey in the state of California, and this is
not a contemporary survey needs to be updated so that
that sixty seven percent of people that are here without
documentation in California have been here for ten plus years.

(18:00):
Is along the same and they paying sixties and paying taxes.
But here's the second majority of folks. The worker pays taxes,
but they have several dependents at home who don't live
on supplemental income from the state and the federal government.
That is a problem. And that's that and therein lies, yes,
some of the sort of dialectic you and I will
have to have in terms of what's the appropriate level

(18:20):
of support and how you deal with that's that reality,
the federal failure to address the issue of immigration, immigration policy,
and border We completely agree with the question is what's
that pathway to address the example you just provided, because
I how to do it, Gavin, I pay sixteen percent
in state taxes. You pay, well, then you need a

(18:41):
better accountant because it's thirteen point three percent. But there's
a millionaire's tax on top of it.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Well there's and I work, and I'm eighty three years
old and I still work, right, Okay, I have another
home in Florida. Yeah, I don't live there. I prefer
where I live. I've gotten used to the fog, to
the seagulls, to the cormorants.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
I know all the birds of the bay.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
I'm an avid, so I got used to watching the
fog rolling over the Morine Hills. I watch it roll
out in the afternoon.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
And I've always said, you got the ten zones, You've
got snow to the desert. So it's a perfect geographical
location for me. But there's a point at which I
will leave this stake, and that will be taxation. With
that representation, I can go to Florida and pay no
state tax.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Right right, Yeah, I mean The reality is you're we
have the highest tax rate, but not the highest taxes
in America. Who has a higher state tax tax rate?
The vast majority of people are not you. They're not
the one percent, which means ninety nine percent of other people.
I'm subraitizing them. No. But at the end of well,
we can get to that. But the bottom line, places
like you use Florida, they tax their low wage workers

(19:44):
more than.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
We tax the Gavin, I shouldn't be punished for succeeding.
It's and it's a disincentive to me.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
By the way, should I work? Why should I keep working?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Well, there's there's many reasons, and you don't need to work.
I know this. There's no going of course, you, of
all people not have to work. But I have it.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
I'm an immigrant son. I wore dead Man's pants as
a kid. Every nickel I have, I've worked as I'm
five years old. Young man drives to me. He's from Mexico.
He says, Michael, you're an inspiration to mean you keep
working at your age. I tell all my friends that
not all all white people and houses don't work. He says,
some of you keep working, And why said You're such
an inspiration to me. But work is a sou you know,

(20:25):
go again, I'm sorry. Rodan the great sculptor, Yeah, everyone
knows his work. It's in the Palace of Legion, amount
of all his work, right, love that museum. So I
read Rodan avidly and Rodin said work is the only salvation.
And I found that to be true.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
I love it. I was with Voltaire said work selves life,
three great evils, boredom, Vice and Need? Who said that Voltaire?
Voltaire boredom, boredom, Vice in Need? Look, I'm with you,
We're not, but I think it's important. Just in California,
the vast majority of middle class taxpayers pay less than
they do in California middle class than they do in

(20:59):
states like Texas well. Question of who you're for, we
have the highest again, to what level we are averaged
the slightly above average tax state. It's the one percent.
And by the way, we haven't raised your taxes at
the one percent since twenty eleven. And it wasn't I
wasn't governor, wasn't the lieutenant governor, all right, I just
became lieutenant was the voters of California that did that.

(21:19):
But I don't disagree with you.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Four people always vote for tax session on the rich.
That's what Carl Marx taught them to do.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
So the thing is, I'm not advocating for increasing taxes.
Haven't done in as governor of the state of California.
No income tax increases under my governorship. I've opposed them.
In fact, did five million dollars of ads to stop
Proposition thirty, which was a tax increase run by corporations
in the Bay Area that had their own special tax
increase where I did ads to oppose it and impose

(21:46):
the wealth tax in California. So we're trying to keep
you here, doctor Savage. Well, I will will leave taxes
go up. I know I'm working hard against.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
So look, I made a little as borders voting, illegal
aliens voting in the state.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Is that still illegal? Of course it was always illegal.
It wasn't never. I'll bring a vote. But what substance
of evidence is there to suggest that you have any
receipts to back up that all of these people are
voting illegally.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I don't know that all of them are, but I'll
ask you a question that everyone Look, I put this
on social media and they said, ask the governor. And
again I don't have to be contentious to ask you this,
though I appreciate. Why does it take so many months
or days to count the ballots in California the month?
India one day to count six and forty million votes,
Germany eight hours to counts fifty million votes, Argentina six

(22:35):
hours to count twenty seven million votes, California four weeks
to count sixteen million.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Vote It's ridiculous. Why it's ridiculous, it's because it's and
by the way, we've been having this conversation enough and
it's a first of all, we believe that every vote counts,
so we want to make sure every vote is counted.
Because of the provisional ballots, the fact we do all
mail in ballots, the fact that we have such a
huge investments in making sure that we increase that outreach.
We want to make sure again every vote counts. But

(23:01):
you're right the time right about the right. No, the right, absolutely,
the right is right, and you are right to criticize
the extended period. I'm not actually a right I'm an
independent independent conservative. I would what does that mean? Independent
meaning I'll make up my own mind about every issue.
So on the environment. I'm probably to the left of you.

(23:22):
You what I love about you. This is where we
have some interaction periodically. And I look at you as
you're an animal rights guy that absolutely big into the
animal rights advocates. Well, not burning down clinics or attacking
people who eat meat. You're conservationists, but you know the
environmentalists because there's a difference. Conservationists believe in conserving the environment.

(23:45):
Environmentalists use the environment as a political weapon or a
tool to advance I would say, a Marxist agenda. There's
a big difference. It's it's like anything else.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
I mean, you could be force something without using it
as a weapon against your political enemies.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
So everyone's saying the fires, the fires, the fires. Yeah,
can we talk about the fire. We need to talk
about the fires. It's this last decade has been extraordinary
and devastating, not just in Los Angeles, but the campfire
where I originally was with President Trump as governor of
elect walking there eighty five people lost their lives. We
live very close both of us now morin Santa Rosa.

(24:21):
The Tubs fire mount terrible fire, one hundred housing units loss.
So no, this is this is serious. Stuff, and you know,
God bless there's fires going on in the middle of
winter in south North Carolina and as we speak.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
But what about the rebuilding down in Pacific Palisades. This
is a hot button issue. Yeah, shouldn't it be a
I'm sorry, a special master to administer the funds? It
seems fishing to a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Administer which funds the FEMA.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Dollars the rebuilding of Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Well, there should be accountability across the specters whose accounting.
FEMA has rules and regulations overseen by Congress, and obviously
the distribution of those fun A lot of it's individual aid,
a lot of it's to the SBA, a lot of
it have very prescriptive requirements that are well established across
the country. But we're all for accountability. I'm for accountability
and I have no problem and I think in terms

(25:12):
of that transparency and accountability advocating for it and for
all our tax dollars, not just as it relates to reach.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
So here's one related to it from my friend Danny Harrowitz,
who's my attorney.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Great man. You got to meet Daniel Hope you never
have to meet him, But no, he's a great guy,
are you getting in trouble? I hate lawyers. I only
like my lawyer.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
He said, Please, he loves you, he says, he said,
please ask the governor the following he said. State Senator
Scott Wiener the SF has introduced SB six seven seven,
which his website says is designed to strengthen to a
California's landmark housing streamlining laws SB nine blah blah blah.
These bills would allow developers to override local zoning laws
and create high density housing in suburbs and places like

(25:51):
the burned down areas of LA. The bills allow this
intensified development without any provision for increased fire, police, or
water services. He says, Gavin, you signed SB nine and
S before two three. Given the devastating impact of the
Los Angeles fires, are you willing to rethink your support
of these bills and allow local communities to make their
own assessments.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Of fire and public safety? Right here so as it
relates to the specific bill that he referenced that Scott
Winner just introduces one of two thousand, Michael over two
thousand bills we're just introduced by the legislation. Too many bills.
There's not two thousand problems. I know you think there
are a lot of problems. They're not two. You don't
think they're two thousands. Don't think there are problems. I

(26:32):
don't think there's two problems. There's only three. Language of culture,
Language and culture. We'll get to language and culture in
a second. We talked a little bit about borders, but no,
so first of all, I haven't had chance to review
it's it's difficult to respond specifically about it. It's not
on my desk. It may never end up on my desk.
Which are these bills the bill that he was referencing

(26:54):
from scot Winner. But and that's not just me punting
on it. But let me talk about the rebuild in LA.
I'm not looking to up zone the palis Aes. We're
not looking to make this sort of developer friendly. In fact,
I waive the Coastal Act and I Wave Sequel, which
is our environmental reforms to allow people to rebuild like
units within one hundred and ten percent of the original

(27:14):
foot right with the original plans. Fast tracking that process,
we got the debris removed. And thank you to the EPA,
thank you Lee Zelden, thank you to President Trump directly
for helping. We got the debris for the hazardous waste
done in less than thirty days, unprecedented in US history.
We want to get the rest of this debris done
within nine months. Concurrently, we're already doing housing permits and

(27:36):
people were going to start reconstruction in a matter of months.
But you got to build back smarter better. You've got
to deal with the climate realities. You've got to deal
with fire issues, You've got to deal with redundancies and
systems related to Fire's going to slow everything down, not
going to slow you that we do this. Concurrently, we
do this and sort of stacking order. We're trying to
do this quickly, but safely and smartly because we don't

(27:57):
want to be as dumb as we possibly by building
back in the way that we built in the fifties
for a world that no longer exists today. And you
have to admit hots are getting hotter drys or dryer droughts,
well is atmospheric rivers. No, no, no, mister savage. Slow
science is my middle name. I know, but your I mean,
but your other your eyes tell you a different story too, right. No, No,

(28:21):
reality is reality. Let's talk about climate change. If you
brought it up.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
I up, I run up temperatures, and a lot of
this is total bullshit.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
They're all wrong on it.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
The science doesn't support it. And I'm going to give
you one piece of evidence that people don't want to
look at, real science evidence. I did it on my
YouTube channel yesterday because I was talking about the Pope
and his health. And the Pope is a radical leftist politically,
by the way, Saint Francis San Francisco. No, and I
wish him our patron's speedy recovery. But he was a radical,

(28:53):
you know, leftist guy, and he was wrong about environmental
things because I know who wrote his encyclical on this,
and the guy is a classic Marxist. So one piece
of evidence, which they'll cut right out of this tape.
They're called the vastork ice core samples. No one heard
of them, Okay, So Russia and France, you got left
and right scientists from both countries drill into the Antarctic shelf.

(29:18):
They drill down ten thousand feet two miles. They pull
up a core from the Antarctic. And why are you
looking at the core of the Antarctic Because you can
see climactic changes in the core. As you understand, and
guess what, there were carbon dioxide increases millennia ago, but
they always followed temperature increases. They didn't cause the temperature increases.

(29:41):
People don't understand that we had a period of great
flora enveloping the Earth, which produced a great deal of
carbon dioxide.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
So it now. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not
arguing for pollution. I'm a guy a bicycle every day.
I like a Berkeley graduate bicycles every day and writes
books about nutrition. I believe me. I hate police the
original I mean, the guy who's inspired so much of
what Trump is a fits. Well, let's talk about that
if you want. Let's talk about Trump and Trump is it.

(30:12):
But don't you and before that though, because to be
fair on the climate issue, I mean, but you'll you'll
acknowledge well you know, I mean seriously, just you know,
and you're you've got your northern California guy, you go
up to Lake Tahoe, just the snow levels. I mean,
these there's some trend lines here that are understandable. Headline,
climate has been changing for millennia, and what you'll acknowledge
it's changing. Well wait a minute, but it's not changing

(30:33):
in the direction you think it is. We're actually we're
actually entering a little ice period. People don't study history
long and in geological history, we're actually entering a cold phase,
not a hot phase. So climate. Remember in the.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Middle Ages of fifteen hundreds it was very cold in
Europe or read about me.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
You weren't around, Yeah, it wasn't, but it was frozen.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
England was for all of the Dickens novels set in
the snow in London because cold wave came through England.
It was a cold a little ice age.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
It was called.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
We're entering a small, little ice period on the Earth,
not the opposite. So there's a lot more to the science.
If you could let me sit down and I'll show
you data and your scientists they're not going to want
to hear it because people don't want to look at science.
They only want their doxies supported by the science they
approve of.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, no, I mean, look, I you don't have to
believe in science, but I do. I joked about believing
your own eyes. I mean, places, lifestyles, traditions, communities being
wiped off the mat. We had a three year historic doubt.
The most significant drought California's history, drought since statehood, and
it ended in three weeks with the wettest three weeks

(31:41):
since state correct the.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Wettest extreme is Nature always corrects, it's so extreme, correctly,
I come on, nature corrects.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
So wait, I'll tell you. Somebody does bat last bats
a thousand. Chemistry, biology, physics, that's all Mother Nature is.
I'll agree with you on that.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
But Gavin, listen, in eighteen seventy two, it was so
hot in the state of California before there was the
first internal combustion engine. Eighteen seventy two, the corn fields
exploded in the Sacramento Valley from a heat wave.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
No cars, no real factories yet.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Because the climate was changing, because it always changes.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Now, having said that, I'm not arguing for pollution. I
you know why I I'm a theft in my mind.
You know why I moved from New York pollution.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
I left New York in the sixties to get away
from the I would be deadified state.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
By the way, in nineteen sixty seven, Ronald Reagan, then governor,
agreed with you. He created the California Air Resources Board
because of the smog in LA. He wanted to clean
the Air, Clean Air Act nineteen seventy Did he do it?
And our waiver was caught out? That's what Trump's attacking
right now. There's a beautiful picture of Reagan in the
oval looking down at President Trump as he vandalizes Reagan

(32:51):
and Nixon's clean Trump on this podcast, even though you
would like me to but Snell, we're getting along Trump
and you and we still we spent an hour out
but he's look.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
How can you ask him for three hundred billion dollars
to rebuild California and spend and spend fifty millions and
spend fifty million attacking in house.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
We didn't spend fifty million attack We hope we don't
use a penny of it. We had. We were involved
in one hundred and twenty two lawsuits in the last
Trump administration. I was only involved in two years of that.
Governor Brown, who you know well have had on your
show and over the years, was I think I did
years ago, years ago? Yeah, And I said, I only
make the point that you're always someone that reaches out.
And I've always appreciated that.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I had Nancy Pelosi on my radio show proving the point.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Nobody would know it. I know. I had charl Schumer
on my radio show years ago. No one knows that. See,
you know why why politics makes strange, bad fellow. That's
why we're here up having a civil conversation. So look,
we didn't put that money up to go after proactively Trump.
We're doing to protect Ronald Reagan's leadership at the California
Resource Sport.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
If you make that start, If you want now look
on the environment, I can guarantee you that on the environment,
Trump and I don't get along. I can guarantee you sing. Yeah,
we knew that in the last administration. And in fact,
I can tell you a story about it if you'd
like to hear it.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
I was an Air Force one with him in the
flying Oval Office. I won't tell you the long story,
but we flew out of Moffitt Field to LA to
a fundraiser. I got on at the last minute, and
he didn't like me because I was criticizing him on
the radio about his environmental policies.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
I'm led into the Oval Office.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
I was let on the plane at almost the last minute,
and the guy I won't tell you who got me on,
he said it takes months for clearance we got you on.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
She gets me on. I'm on the plane and they have.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
A buffet and I tend to like wine, and I
was I hadn't dr so I started drinking more wine.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
On Trump's air force.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
He doesn't drink, but no, I know, yeah, I didn't
think i'd be meeting him. I thought I was just
getting a ride down to LA for another fundraiser. All
of a sudden, after I had three glasses of wine,
they said.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
He'll see you now.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I said, now, okay, So they bring me and I
swear to God, he's sitting in the most powerful chair
in the world. And the minute I walked through the
door to the guy who brings me, and he says,
he doesn't look at me. He says, what is he
doing here? Points at me like I'm a none person,
but I'm from Queen's on the other side of Junia Turnpike,
and I know how he works. She sits and he

(35:12):
goes like this, like bring the Hebrew in, you know,
sit him down, the king bring He sits me down
and I say, he says, what are you doing here?
Because he knew I was critical of him on animals
in the environment. I said, Donald, you need me because
I don't need you. I said, come on, knock it off.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
You have Hannity in.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Your back pocket like a sock puppet. I said, they
all kiss your ass. I said, you need me because
I speak to the educated people out there who want
the environment protected. I don't need you, and went on
and on. But you know, Gavin, after that we settled down.
We had fifteen minute flight. His valet brings out two
hot dogs. They were kosher, by the way, and I'm

(35:49):
not kosher, and I'm starving because i didn't need all day.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Show you how sensitive me is. You've met the man
oh many times.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
And he looks in my eyes and he sees my
eyes down onto the hot dogs, and he looks at
me and he.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Says, do you want one?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
The most powerful man in the world, holds up a
tray and asks me, I'll take one of his two
hot dogs. Being from New York, I said sure. Now,
last point, he's not a bad guy. He says to me,
mustard to catch him.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Well, that's obvious, right, No, I tell me you're a mustard.
I'm a mustard guy. Got but he put it on
my hot dog. So what is the point. The point
is that he's actually a very sensitive guy to other people.
I agree, by the way you are as well. But
I've always felt that about you. I am it's a compliment.
Thirty years ago. You came to a Thanksgiving party. Thirty
years ago, Gavin. Okay, I said, two decades, it's been three. Well, okay,

(36:37):
maybe in the radio in ninety four, we're Atalia Pharaoh,
which you can't even make up. You subbed for Ray
tel Oh, who is a liberal lion back in the day,
late later than I remember that case, late late caj
But then you and so that was obviously such a
success and you and obviously you woke a lot of people.
It wasn't a success.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
What happened was the program to I have to ask
me to fill in for a guy on kg I
never listened to because I'm not up in the middle
of the night. So I figured, y'all do radio. So
I go on kg O at night. I didn't even
know who he was, and I started talking about stuff
that I believe in, and people were pulling the most
hateful calls I ever had in my life. I drove
home that night to my family. I was shaken. Looking

(37:18):
in the rearview mirror. I was scared someone was going
to kill me.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
You literally except for raytali Affarah. I mean i'm talking
about let I mean Bernie Sanders is a right wing
to Ray Tali Affaarah, and he's he's sort of dominant.
But so you got your own show the next year. No.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, I went home and I said to my wife,
I'm never going to do radio again as long as
I live. It was the most hateful experience of my life.
I'm not doing it again. Next day, the phone rings
and the rest is history. She begged me to do
it again. I said, I'll never do that show again,
and I'll never do an overnight show again. And before
long they created KSFO, the Conservative Alternative. They made me
the afternoon drive host, and of course it took off

(37:55):
from there. Then it became syndicated, but not just took off.
I mean you had but nine million listeners are probably
closer to twenty million listeners.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Which is at the peak. So I mean you were
the I mean you talk about this whole space. I
mean we and you know how everything's changed. You've got
your podcast now radio, but you dominated this space. Well,
Rush was number one. It was you Rush, Rush, Hannity
and Savage and Hannie Yeah, yeah, but Hannity has no intellect. Rush.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
I won't say a word about because he's deceased. I
won't talk about the debt.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
You've never been shy about criticizing anybody and including myself.
Are you good about your good stuff? But I don't
want to you. I mean, I love even Joe. Even
Joe Rogan, which is interesting, called him a meathead.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Well, unfortunately he is a bit of a meathead. I mean, look,
you can't argue with success. No, and the fact is
that the most number one biggest podcaster in the country.
But ask yourself a question, why hasn't he had me on?

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Why?

Speaker 2 (38:50):
I don't because he's afraid to talk to me. He's
had people you never heard of on that podcast.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Understatement, most I don't I but you know, I don't
read the time. Look, I had three hour Pucket.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
I had Tucker Calson on my first TV show on
Newsmacs four weeks ago, which was a shock.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Why because he hadn't been back on TV and all I.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Didn't think Tucker would do an interview Number one interesting,
he's a giant Okay, and Tucker always liked me I
ran into him in San Francisco in a studio. We
were crossing doing a show. He was very friendly to me.
Then never talked to me again, and I invited him
on my TV show and he shockingly said yes. And
he's a very congenial intelligence.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
You thank him. I appreciate. But you don't like Glenn Beck.
You called him what he hemorrhoids with eyes.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Well, I believe that was then. I don't use those
terms anymore. I become older and wiser. But Gavin, you
know you should have Tucker on. He's very smart.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
I don't I agree. I think no, I'm fascinated by Tucker,
but I'm fascinated by.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, he's a liberal at heart. You know he's People
don't remember Tucker had a bow tie and was on MSNBC.
Do you remember that you had a three months show
on MSNBC.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
If people can't believe that either, Jesus, I remember that
I was watching you every night. Did you see the
night I apploaded that was well you You expressed a
strong opinion that was not necessarily shared by Manys and
it was a prank color I recall it was a
prank caller.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
They had their power to control it by cutting it
and editing it out, and they let it run because
they I was undermined by the team. Watch out for
your team, gam I was told in the media from
the beginning. It's always the people who run the cameras,
the lights and the microphones will control your future.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
But it's amazing you're resilience. But more important, I want
to go back though. You dominated this space and so
basically and you're still at it to the point you
don't need to do this obviously, you love doing it.
You're entertaining as hell. It's not all jaical plating edutainment.
Let's say there's a entertainment. Is that how you describe it?

(40:45):
Is it? I mean, and has that been the secret sauce?
It's I mean fact sure, but I mean you're talking
about what you're eating. You're talking about, yes, recipes.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
That was the that was the fun part of my
radio stuff. But on YouTube, I do cooking shows at
night in my house where I can curse politicians. So
if I'm cooking, if I'm cooking my Kla mari or
my shrimp at night on my pan and the cameras
on me and I say, this shrimp has more integrity
than Joe Biden. And I'm not kidding at least you
know it's a shrimp and where it came from. But okay,

(41:16):
but I would use cooking as a foil.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
It's a lot of fun. So what do you make
of today? What do you make of the Charlie Kirk
types and Tucker that. I mean, all these folks, these
new platforms, hundreds of me. I mean, they seem to
be profoundly influential in sort of building off the craft
you sort of led decades and decades ago. I mean
they're sort of the oh, forgive the frame, but og

(41:39):
so much would exist as well, just sort of the
well in the vernacular of you know, original gangster, you know.
I mean, I'm using, you know, just some language that
people can know now I understand, you know, but I
mean literally, it's the world you invented that didn't invent
and it existed before me. They was talking to in
New York. I never listened to it, by the way, Yeah,

(42:00):
I was not that interested. But you took it to
another level because I introduced a level of education and
knowledge and personality that never existed. People are not willing
to talk about their daily so if I would walk
in San Francisco and i'd go in a restaurant. I
eat a lot of cheap Chinese restaurants, which I love.
I would talk about the meal, and people were interested
in the meal as much as they were in the politics,

(42:23):
if not more so. And you also, as you're walking
the streets express you're what of you about the politics?

Speaker 2 (42:28):
And let's talk about San Francisco. Gavin, Please, I love
the city. I don't go over the bridge anymore.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Well, I mean you should. He's coming back. What happened back?
Here's what's happening about. Ten years ago. I was in
North North Beach restaurant just real in November. They called
me when I was in Florida, the new owners. Do
you know them?

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yes, And he asked me to come in. He said,
we know how important you are to this restaurant. But
by the way, I have three novels here. That restaurant's
featured in three of them. So I'm sitting in North
Beach having dinner. A man comes by, if you want
to call him, that takes his pants down and defecates
outside the window in the street.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Not excepting without.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Civility, there could be no civil order. In a country
I agree with. This shouldn't be permitted.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
It's not acceptable. The encampments nor the tents. I couldn't agree.
I mean, how you were driving? Accountability were drive? How
do you not cracked down on the well, remember I
did care, not cash. My body was burning effigy. It
became the defining issues. When I was mayor, we dropped.
We reduced the street population by third. We still population. Well,

(43:29):
it's not a static environment. I wasn't mayor. It's been decades.
PA the government half. I'm the governor, but I'm not
the mayor of California, and I want to see accountability
at every level of government. The state visus is realizingly
it's it is turning around. I still don't go, oh,
you got to you gotta Neighborhoods are thriving in San Francisco.

(43:52):
You got a new you got a new mayor, and
there's great he's he's pretty Daniel, yes, and he's cracked
down on the tents and the encampments, and you're seeing progress.
We're starting to see that. I hope I live long
enough to eat in San Francisco again. Come on, you
love eating in San Francisco. Scomas and the neverate Scoma's
in my life. You never did again, made it up.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
We should go to dinner in the North Peach restaurant.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
We have to.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Let's go in when you're ready for it, and then
I'll tell the story on my podcast. So, Gavin, the
homeless thing is the turning point. When that man defecated
outside the window, that was the beginning of the end
of San Francisco for it not only for me, but
for the whole city. Because the cops couldn't do anything

(44:37):
about it. The hands were tied by this small band
of radical left wingers who were saying they're sacred, you
can't touch them.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I mean, look when I was there, when I was mayor,
you may recall this. I did a sit Lie ordnance.
I did this anti panantling ordnance. I did care not cash,
converting welfare checks to services and accountability. We saw real progress.
I've been very AGGRESSI Savanna encampments, just did a new
executive order in the state and we're flooding the zone
with state support and a way we've never done in

(45:06):
the past. When I got there, Michael, this is important.
There was never a governor that actually there was no
homeless plan in the state of California. There was no
support for cities and counties, and it felt that way
we had under Schwartzenegger. It's not a knock on ar Old,
but goes back to two thousand and five. We had
one hundred and eighty eight thousand homeless in California. It's
not new. What's happened metastasized into a cancer after especially

(45:30):
during COVID and what's happening the street.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
We're blaming COVID, but you know, no civil society would
tolerate this, Gavin, And here's my position on it, and
it's something you're not going to like to hear. There
is a solution to the homeless problem, which is ended well,
you build camps for them in places outside cities, and
you give them the care that they need against their will.
You don't let them shoot up in the streets, you

(45:53):
don't let them defecate or urinate or beat up old
women in the streets. You take them off the streets.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yeah, I agree with focus A one hundred percent, agree
with broadly with that settiment in terms of cohercion. Just
so you know, we just did two major reforms we've
had all these old conservatorship laws that are weak. We
finally have strengthened conservativeship law so we can begin to
get people off the streets. We also established a new

(46:19):
paradigm called care Court, which is a whole new strategy
to also help in advance to address that subset of people.
And we did the most significant mental health reforms and
investments in state's history. That those resources are going out
to do regional centers along the lines of what you're suggesting,
taking them against the way different paradigm of thinking more

(46:40):
supportive care as opposed to substituted care in the vernacular
of all the quote unquote experts, and we're trying to
make up for this. And you'll appreciate this as a
California in nineteen fifty nine, at peak nineteen fifty nine,
California had thirty seven thousand mental health beds. Today five
five hundred corect. Oh you're agreeing, OK, reopen to the

(47:01):
mental hospitals for double the population today. So we had
half the population in the late fifties and sixties, of course,
and we had thirty seven thousand. So what we're doing,
we just did this initiative Proposition one to provide six
plus thousand new units that were all throughout the state.
And we're regionalizing along the lines of what you're saying,

(47:22):
mental hospitals, literally, behavior health, subsecuse mental health and literally
it's the biggest investments in US history, biggest investments. Or
do they have to comply? That's what the Conservatorship Reform
SB forty three was about. That's what our care Court
is about.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
And we so if a guide defecates outside a restaurant window,
a copkin and restaurants send him to one of these facilities.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
They can refer them through the care Court. In fact,
a police officer quite literally now because of my care
court can refer. In the past, they could not refer
that individual.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Well, I hope it works. Look, we all have a
lot at stake in this state and in this city.
It's why I don't leave, because I still love the
state in the city. But if it's intolerable at a
certain point, everyone will leave.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Business is a leaving. It's interesting, Well business, we have
more fortune five hundred companies than anytime the last deck.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Well, why did they kick SpaceX out?

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Why would you take SpaceX is not being kicked out, well,
they can't launch their rockets because of the coastal And
you saw what did I do? I joined in the law.
I literally said, I'm with Elon Musk attacking the Coastal Commission.
I couldn't have been I was very vocal, and then
you were really acceptable. We had fifty one launches last year,
which is a record since nineteen seventy four. Why would

(48:33):
you not want a rocket company in California. We have
the Mohave Desert, we have Vanderberg, and we have Rocket Beach,
which is Long Beach. We're starting to dominating this space
I hope so. And we have record breaking launches out
of Vanderberg. We're making with relativity, not just SpaceX all
of the year. You don't want to go to Mars,
do you? I'm not personally. I think a lot of

(48:53):
people like Elon want me to go to Mars. I
don't want to go. I don't even want to go
over the bridget talk one and we're out of time,
but I wanted just before we're done, I do want
to talk about Trump and Trump is you have to
be pretty proud that the issues of border in language
of culture. I mean, the president just came out saying
the English is that's right out of my mantra. Right,

(49:15):
I mean, this is stuff you've been preaching for decades. Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Salon Magazine, left wing magazine a number of years ago,
when Trump was president, wrote an article called the Father
of Trump a mania and it was about Michael Savage
and it was sort of middle ground, wasn't attacking. And
I was told by one of his chief architects, who
I will not mention, shortly after he was elected the
first time he visited me in my home in Florida,

(49:38):
and he said, Michael, we took all of your books,
we made talking points, he ran on your platform. I said, okay, fine,
because I know he was a liberal when he was
young in New York. I was a social worker and
a democrat. So people change one day. You may be
a conservative without even knowing it. But no, but Gavin,
so yeah, I'm the father of a lot of what

(50:00):
he's doing. I was honored to see Boarders life. But
no one's called me from the White House and said
we want to give you the Presidential Medal of Freedom,
and we recognize that you did this.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
We think you're great. No one's called how do you
think that's the case.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
It's interesting because in every political entity there are politics.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
I'm not involved at all with the in crowd. I
don't know them.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
You mentioned Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah, you don't know. I have all of these sea packs.
I've never spoken at any of these announts. I didn't
think about that you have. Do you have the equivalent
of a Presidential Medal of Freedom in the state of California?
We do California Hall of Fame? Here in the Radio
Hall of Fame. I'm in. I'm in the National Radio
Hall of Fame. But why am I? Okay? You know, Gavin,
it's by the way, thank you for asking that question.

(50:43):
It's a good question. I should be in it. You
want things to be lit up, you want me to
I want to build board on the highway again. I'm
going to announce you in the California Hall of Fame.
That will light things up, mister Savage.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
But I I came here in seventy four. Look what
I've done in this state.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
No, I'm believing you haven't left the state. For a
lot of these guys turn their back on California as
they're attacking it. You have it, so I admire that
I do.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I mean, I don't have to agree with you, nor
you with me. For us to sit and have a
civilized conversation. It's the only way we're going to solve
the problems of the state and the country. Right, and
I feel the same thing about the country itself. The
left and the right already each other's throats to hate
each other, and they would like me to have been
on this podcast and be screaming and yelling like a
foaming idiot. We get nowhere with that.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
It's idiotic and though, and the whole point of this
is not to have those conversations because those I can
hear twenty four to seven on Spotify.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
It's bad for my health, number one, and I don't
feel that that gets us anywhere. But before we leave,
you brought up Trump and the border's language culture, and
then you brought up the things you know. I have
to thank you for the Bancroft Library and the jets
in our barium. I think this should be in your
podcast because people say, why are you so nice to
Gavin us? Well, I'm not that nice to Gavin Newsom.

(51:53):
I just don't go out of my way to insult people.
Just for the sake of sounding like an idiot, so
a lot of people do.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I reached out to you about five years ago, and
I said that I have the University of Texas is
interested in collecting all of my writings, all of my manuscripts,
my journals. And I said, they really naturally belong here
in California. And you reached out and through the chain,
the Bancroft Library came back to me and they spent
two years with me in my archives, taking all of

(52:23):
my correspondence, my writings, and you know, they have the
largest collection of Mark Twain papers in the world. And
I said to the libraryan it was a lovely lady.
I said, don't you feel a little uncomfortable that I'm
so called a conservative? She said, Michael, we're not here
at the judge politics. We have conservative authors who are Californians,
liberal authors or Californians. And she said, you have done
so much in your life. She said, you have three phases.

(52:45):
You're a poet and a novelist, then you were a
botanist and a nutrition writer. Then you're a payment political writer.
And she said, we need that in our library. And
then I have a collection of medicinal plants, Gamant, they're
in the jets in her Barian They're in seven her
barrier around the world, Jepson is won. These are the
plants I collected, medicinal plants. Yeah, you know where else
they are or Moscow Herbarium. I've never been there. Q Gardens, London,

(53:08):
New York Botanical Garden, Chicago Herbarium, and the Honolu Bishop Museum.
So we have a rare collection of all my collections
in the jets in barbarium. Again, this is for scientists
to look at for agents, and it's here.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
And I want to thank you for.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Opening the doors because another governor just said, you know,
go pound sand I'm not interested.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
No, I appreciate it, and it was an honor to
be However, a health I don't know how much help
are you. I mean, this was on all of it,
on the merits substantively, and everyone doing the right thing.
But when they don't do the right thing, I call
it out. I can't stand cancel culture. I love free speech.
I can't stand when someone people I remember Bill Maher
was going to Berkeley or something and they said Bill's

(53:47):
too conservative, it was too controversial. I've never liked that
called it out then will continue to. So I don't
think anyone served in that respect, all these banning and
cultural purges that people have been on. I don't believe
in the mao cultural say No. I think a lot
of people assign and attach those points of view to me.
But let me ask you in closing, Oh are you

(54:08):
putting me in the California Hall of Fame? You're gonna
put me on this spot by the way you've made.
You just made the most compelling case you possibly could
have for the multi dimensionality. Here. There are people in
that Hall of Fame that have done basically one simple thing,
and here you are twenty nine books, best selling books
across the spectrum of issues and ahead a novelist, I know.

(54:30):
And you were banned from the UK. Oh yeah, and
you know that what they called you? What propaganda hate
or what was the exact phrase?

Speaker 2 (54:38):
I mean, the only hell American author banned in Britain. Yeah,
for things I didn't even say. It was a terrible,
terrible thing to do to me. And I woke up
that morning I saw it on the Drudge Report at
the time, and I said, oh my god, I'm banned
in England. So I went in the radio show and
I said, God, there goes the great cuisine that they're
known for in my dental care that I was looking
forward to of that line. But I think it's a

(55:01):
terrible thing to do to me, because first of all,
I didn't say the things they said I said. Secondly,
I spent four hundred thousand dollars to try to get
my name off the list, and I've not did not succeed.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
I gave up. I don't even care still on it. Yeah,
I can't go to England to this day, I cannot
enter England, the land of the Free and the land
of the Magna Carter does not let Michael Savage in,
but they let Jihadis run around screaming kill the Queen.
I'm not gonna argue with you, no, Stormer. I don't
I think we have met. Have you met? Smer bring

(55:32):
it up. We'll have to bring it up. Let me
ask you, just get me off the list. Let me
ask you this. Let me if you were going to list.
Speaking of lists, you know, Democrats, if they're not trying
to figure out what the hell just happened, they sure
as hell should right. So I'm serious about this. I'm
you know, I'm not asking for sort of a flippant

(55:54):
It's not a flipping question, and I hope certainly not patronizing,
But what the hell do you think our party needs
to do? And what what's the biggest lesson? Seriously, are
you really sei Michael Savage to the Democrat advice to
the Democratic Party was it because we're too woke? Because
we didn't focus on borders? I mean is it's what
is really straightforward? It is borders, language and culture. And

(56:17):
the thing that triggered most of the people who turned
against the Democrat Party this was this incessant drum beat
going back years vilifying the white male, white supremacy, white supremacy,
white remember that that became a mantra of the Democrat Party.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
They took all the working class white guys and said,
what the fuck you basically pardon me, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Man?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
We work, we are also citizens. Why are you turning
us into Hitler's because you know so, that's what was
one thing. Then the illegals getting free care, and then
the illegals voting in some municipal elections. Those, but the
big thing was the women. When you had people with
the right or whatever you want to know.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
The whole trans issue triggered the women who were normally liberal.
But when you have kids being brainwashed in school to
accept that stuff in little in kindergarten, Hey, I'm a
sexual libertarian. I want to be very clear. Okay, I
really don't care what people do to make themselves happy. Okay,
this is not my business. Life is very hard. If
you can be happy with someone, God bless you, but

(57:23):
leave the kids alone. That's the whole point. And when
you start crossing that line into the schools, you're going
to see what happened. That's what just happened. It was
the women and the schools. I think, Gavin interesting, So
I mean the trans issue. You thought that, I mean
that it was a children issue. It wasn't a trans
No one was against. So it was a gener assignment

(57:43):
surgeries for these miners. Yes, where Yeah, I felt that
our party was complicit in terms of creating those conditions.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
I don't think so promoting it to some degree, you
would argue, I wouldn't even go there. I would say
that the people had had enough. There were so many
more important issues God, faith in reason. I mean, there's
a spirit we didn't even get let's do another podcast.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
In a month. I know, talk about God and which
is a big part of your life. Faith? People don't
know that big part. I pray every day and have
for decades. You have, and you are, You're by the way,
And then we're going to close on this. You are
ascending to a unique status. Shocking, isn't it? Well, no,

(58:23):
tell us about it.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
The president of a local Jewish community. Yeah, and from
a very orthodox group of Jewish people. The guys that
wear black, the black hat people, they like me, and
I say to them, I'm not that religious. Why do
you want me to become reaching out to the community.
They said, you're more religious than us in some ways.
They watch my podcasts and they don't watch the media.

(58:46):
They know that there's a spiritual element to Michael that's palpable,
that emanates, and.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
They like it.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
It's that simple. But does that mean I'm holier than anyone?
I am such a fallen angel, Gavin.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Well, it's good to be with another fallen angel. Still
on that one. It's great to have you, Michael Savage.
Thanks for being here with