From the PC to the Track with Prodigy Racing

This week, Katherine is supporting a select group of sim racers as they try out real life racing as Driver Coach for Guild Racing in the Prodigy Racing League. Seb Hawkins, team leader of Guild, joins Katherine to discuss the role of sim racing in driver development and the skills virtual drivers bring to the track. They also discuss Guild's work with Sky Broadband to bring women into sim racing. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to this

(00:23):
edition of Throttle Therapy with me Katherine Legg. So I
am excited to share one of the things that I've
been up to this year, which is Racing Prodigy. And
Racing Prodigy is a series, a brand new series that
is televised that y'all can watch, and it basically brings
SIM racing into the real world. So we take a

(00:45):
series of sim races that have been pre selected at
Prodigy Week, which happened last year, and we take the
best of them. We allocate them to teams, and I'm
also allocated to a team. I am driver coach for
Guild Racing, and we see how much of the skill
set that they have from SIM racing crosses over into
real life racing. It's basically a series where we go

(01:08):
to different tracks that they've never been to before, we
put them in radical real life race cars and we
see do they have what it takes to be professional
race car drivers? I'm going to introduce you to a
gentleman called Seb Hawkins. Now. Seb Hawkins is team principal

(01:29):
of Guild Racing at Prodigy, the team that I am
the driver coach for, and Seb has a very wide
background in all things SIM related and some racing, and
so I wanted to get his take on the crossover
from the sim world to Prodigy, coming at it completely
differently to me, who's come at it from real world

(01:50):
to Prodigy. So SIM racing is a relatively new phenomenon
that's only been around for a couple of decades now.
It really wasn't around when I was a kid. But
what it does is it enables anybody really to go
out and buy a steering wheel, and they have computers.
Most people have computers at home now and they can
get online and they can race as if they were

(02:12):
real life racing drivers in any series that they want
on programs like I Racing, and so they develop a
skill set, they can set the cars up, they can
be their own engineers, they can do literally anything that
we do in real life racing they can do on
their computer at home. And so it's been shown that
that experience crosses over pretty well into real life. So

(02:33):
this is a search the Racing producty is a search
to see if we can get any of these mostly
young adults that are good and sim racing, that are
really competitive in the gaming online world, whether those skills
translate well enough that we can make them into professional drivers,
and how that looks. And it's actually it's a reality

(02:54):
TV show as well. So what we're doing is we're
finding out, Okay, what skills do they have outside just
the driving? Do they have what it takes to have
the emotional maturity and the fitness and the commercial acuity
to make all of that work so that they can
become the next Catherine. This week we are joined by

(03:24):
the wonderful Seb Hawkins.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Now.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Seb is the team leader. He's the boss of Guild
Racing in the Prodigy Racing League, and we are going
to explain to you what Prodigy Racing is all about,
how we got involved, and what we hope for the future.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
So welcome, Seb.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Ah, You're more than welcome. Obviously, we've been working together
for a while now. I think we share some of
the same hopes and dreams and visions for the future.
We come at it from a different standpoint. Now, I've
come a Prodigy from real world racing standpoint, where I
haven't grown up doing SIM racing. I mean, as a driver,

(04:05):
you get put on professional sims and you get to
train and do tire models and set up changes and
all that good stuff for manufacturers and for teams and things.
But I did not grow up doing I racing and
all the cool things you're doing, and you came at
it from a totally different standpoint. So to me, it's

(04:26):
fascinating to see, like how they have transcended both worlds
and how good they are in the real world.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
And I want you.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Really to explain your background, how Guild is involved in Prodigy,
and like what you think we will get from it.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, so I guess I'll start with my background, which
is the most crazy roller coaster story which I'll try
to summarize. But yeah, I guess when I started SIM racing,
it was my hopes and dreams were to one day
have the ability to drive a car in real life
speed and ever. Like a young kid as I was,
want to have the chance to drive a car. But

(05:05):
I think I was also just mad about anything with
an engine and ultimately just wanted to drive or do anything.
I mean, I loved the idea of being in the
Air Force flying. I was with my dad going to
rally events when I was young, and so I was
just always kind of around cars and mechanicing and it
was just kind of very natural to me. But I
never really knew what sim racing was when I was younger.

(05:27):
It was it was different then, and I had heard
of it, but I was also at a stage where
I didn't really have a PC or any way of
actually doing it. Through a family friend of mine actually
picked up my first sort of sim racing steering wheel
and was able to plug it into my laptop at
the time and get on to what was our factor,
which was prehistoric before I racing.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
I loved it. Was great.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, our factor one. You could modify. You could make
it be all about touring cars. You can make it
all be about endurance racing. And I was doing everything wrong.
The whole thing definitely was not set up as a simulator.
But I was loving it, and I was doing rallying
and all sorts, and I kind of kept it going
as a hobby. It was just something I was really
passionate about a lot of people didn't really relate to
it at that time when I was growing up, and

(06:08):
when I got to college, I went off and pursued
a career in film and tving, so I became a
camera operator. I was somebody that was very technical. I
like touching cameras, anything electronic, and always said I started
off by breaking everything and never repairing it, and then
I got to the stage where I started pairing things,
so it was it was good, but it was similar
with mechannighing as well. I mean, my dad took me
to rallies where he was driving and it was all

(06:30):
club and level, so we were all hands on helping
out and it all kind of linked in, and it
was a really nice kind of entry into almost in
a way, motorsport. If you were starting now, it would
be clasters entering motorsport in a way that you're doing
virtual motorsport and you're kind of starting somewhere on that
pyramid to potentially do it in real life. But I
think for me, I kind of pursued film and TV
but always had a passion for cars, and I didn't

(06:51):
know how I was going to get there or what
I was going to do.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
So you're a racing fan, yeah, massive, what kind of
racing floats you boat more than anything else.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
It's a real tough one because I literally watch everything
every motorsport and every weekend I will skip through the
channels of what local kind of motorsports are on you
name it.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
You and my dad.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Like he will literally watch anything with four wheels just
like that. Like he'll be out in the gym and
he'll be watching some random Romanian F four championship or
something and he'll be like, it's motivating.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I love it so much.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, I'm exactly the same. And I always remember it
was like ITV four in the UK would have like
the Sunday which was touring cars, Toccer juniors, like everything,
and it would go through and I remember it just
being fron for like eight hundred minutes it said at
the time, and like an old TV guide and me
and my dad would just watch it all day. I'd
love it, and then immediately afterwards would go upstairs to
my sym at the time and literally tried to drive

(07:48):
all the cars. I just seen every single track and
that was kind of my fun for it. But I
never really thought of it being a career and I
was always doing it, and I helped out with software
development and hardware development with a few friends that set
companies from global manufacturers for SIM racing to hardware in
all different kinds, and I just love doing it alongside.

(08:08):
And I remember Williams Racing put a post on Facebook
and they said, what would you like to see more
on our socials and I just put, like, I've never
done this before. I just can't ed but career opportunities
for esports because at the time I was managing esports teams,
which were junior esports teams. I know, I was driving
competing as well and loving it and managing everything. And
we had like two or three teams.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
And was that for you yourself?

Speaker 3 (08:31):
It was kind of for me. It was for a
company that just started out that had started making SIM
racing boots, cartoon boots and gloves, and they were called
a Bruisy, which has now gone on to be owned
part owned, so a good friend of mine part owns
it and the other part owner is now Jimmy Broadbent,
who is one of the biggest content creators in SYM racing.
So crazy how I was literally in voice zero zero one.

(08:53):
I remember buying the first product, and we've always kept
in touching, so it's crazy. I started out there and
that was a big passion for I was still doing film,
and it kind of got to the stage where just
before COVID, things slowed down with film and there was
all this kind of freak out and I'd sent that
message to Williams and they said, well, hey, let's have
a chat. So I kind of poured all of what
I've just said in my heart onto an email and thought,

(09:14):
this is do or die. Let's see what happens, and
literally got an email back saying, hey, let's chat. You
know we're already exploring esports, let's talk. Let's see what's
going on. And I had this really bad shoot that happened.
I'd been talking to him for a few months. I
had this shoot that I came all the way down
to London for. I wasn't living in London and it
was an awful shoot. It was terrible. I really hated it.

(09:36):
And I've never walked off a shoot before or a job.
I'd always persevere and I left and drove home. It
was a night shoot, so I was really tired. I
stopped on the way home and I had had the
contract come through from Williams for an offering to join
and be team manager of an esports team, and I
was like, oh wow, crazy, So that kind of kick
started it.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
One door closes, another door opened.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, And I remember literally like closing one Instagram account
and being like, okay, I guess we move on to
sim racing now. I don't know what this world is
like and where it will go. And we went through
you know, COVID having the f on Virtual Grand Prix
where we had George and Nicky with us at the time,
working with them closely to LAM on Virtual just I

(10:18):
met so many drivers it was crazy.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Did that race, by the way, the virtual and I
was so terrible.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
I had this old steering wheel that was.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Literally from like the nineties that I had found or
done something with and it was really glitchy and I
made I embarrassed myself so badly. And it was then
I vowed like, Okay, if I'm ever doing anything like
this again, I need to get the proper equipment.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
There are so many.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Different sin manufacturers and stuff out there now that it's
it's hard to know what's what unless you've got your
finger on the pulls.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, and I think the innovation that happened with everything
and the time in the industry. Then you know, there
was kind of a flagship model that you should buy,
and now there's like twenty or thirty of those, and
you know they're all the same. It's just they all
look slightly different. And it's crazy that the innovation that's
happened in the last kind of ten years has just
been been insane. So whennam kick started everything, we were

(11:10):
trackside in real life motorsport. I was talking to f
one drivers. I was having chats in the paddock of
Miami with Bruno Setter and the fitted parodies, and I
remember just not being able to take it all in,
just just thinking this is crazy, but I'm just going
to enjoy whatever sim racing it's got us too, and
hope that I could also pass this on to drivers.
So my goal. We had fifty drivers, fifteen engineers. We

(11:32):
were competing in I think two hundred events a year.
It was crazy and it was a really small team
of us delivering it, and you know, I loved every minute.
It was great, and we went around had the opportunity
to take the kids that were driving. Now that we're
passionate about being at track, just giving them the opportunity
to be F one racers, and yeah, just just it
was a crazy kickstart to it all. And then you know,

(11:52):
years went by. I left Williams and kind of was
going to go down this route of consulting with SIM
racing again, not really sure where to go. Didn't know
if I wanted to do professional sim racing or really
step into the world of more coaching driver performance and
also kind of the discipline of microsport from a sim
racing angle of how to you know, mentally be strong
and how to prepare yourself for racecraft and development. And

(12:15):
her long story short ended up at Guild, which was
an invite to Guild from now my colleague, but at
the time was personal. I was head to head against
when he was at Red Bull in F one esports
and we were competing at the highest level, and the
driver's briefings and you know, looking at the rule books
were also eighty ninety pages long about how to race
and sim racing. So SIM racing just built into this
like really crazy, completely unique just sport and it was

(12:38):
crazy and it was exactly the sim as mark sport
and I remember so many people just not believing that
this world was sided, and my grandparents having still I think,
no clue what I do now, but just loving it.
I remember my dad was a big fan of votes
for obviously, and I remember the years where I was
rattling my steering wheel at the above the living room
and it was making this horrendous noise and I knew

(12:58):
how much it was irritating, but I want to drive.
And there was this moment where we were at there
so that the F one factory at Williams just has
all the heritage in one circle. We kind of stead
and looked to each other and I was like a
bit crazy how that went from there to being in
the F one factory. So yeah, so then that kind
of leads us to where I am today with Guild,
and Guild is an esports team. When I joined, they
were throwing through esports with everything but SIM racing, and Luke,

(13:23):
who's there, the VP of Esports, Gaming and Commercial, was
looking to bring in the best people for SIM racing
and develop what kind of had sort of dangled the carrot,
and just yesterday we launched a full sym facility in
the HQ. You know, we've got massive movement going on
in both national level SIM racing international, we're looking at

(13:44):
another year of pro sim racing as well, and obviously Prodigy,
which was a conversation that started about this time last year,
and it also didn't feel like that was going to
be a real project.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, so I suppose we should probably sort of circle
back to the beginning here a little bit, and we
should explain what Prodigy is it's all about, and how
we both got connected as well. So why don't you
try and explain how Prodigy is trying to take those
SIM races and give them real world opportunities, and what

(14:14):
the schedule is like and how that looks, and how
that all came about.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Prodigy started with this idea of democratizing the entry to
motorsport was the goal and the motto they were going
for by really involving all of SIM racing. I think
SIM racing has so many different titles and so many
different entry points that you can have a sim racing
competition in every single one of those. And there was

(14:37):
a period of time where some of those would reward
with real life drives and then or test days, but
nothing really gave a place where you could actually compete
for a season.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Didn't this and do something at some point I think
I remember, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
This and did GT Academy, And then we had things
like World's Fastest Gamer as well, So all kind of
similar projects, but all starting off on only one simulator, okay,
a one sim title, whereas this kind of opened up
to all of the sims and different competitions from time
trial competitions to race competitions and then also mobile gaming,
which is incredible and even new to me that aspect. Yeah,

(15:12):
so it was really interesting and it got pitched to
me as you know, do you want to be a
team that's involved in this, And I was like, if
we're taking some racis to real life, definitely that's awesome.
And then the story of actually how these sym racs
get there came out even more so. They take a
kind of group of drivers that have qualified through all
these different competitions and then they put them into extensive

(15:34):
medical testing, fitness testing, media testing, you name it, and
then they whittle them down to this group and they
call it Prodigy Week and then as teams, we get
to just choose based on this day to our drivers.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
It reminds me of school, you know, where you line
everybody up and you're like, which team do you want
to be on? And you're like, I want Dave, I
want this guy, you know, like, yeah, it reminds me
very much of that. But then they get to drive
the Radical, which is just bonkers me like putting them
in such a high powered car.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
And I knew from the time that I'd spent with
sim racis who had gone to real life and you know,
the real life drivers that come to SIM racing. I
knew that the skills were transferable. I'd never actually seen
it happen in real time, so picked the drivers. A
couple of months went by, and then it was the
first round at Nilafe, which was just crazy.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Well before that, you and I got hooked up by
Prodigy themselves because they wanted some coaches to bring some
different skills in. Obviously you've got racing skills and coaching skills,
but you don't have as much like real life skills.
So I think that we compliment each other really well.
I think how I'm so proud of our team and
how we're doing. I think we should be leading right now,

(16:44):
but we're We're right there, kind of tied in P
two and I've put so much weight on sim racing
and what it can do, and I've used it to
learn tracks before, and I've used it to kind of
keep sharp when there wasn't anything going on in COVID.
Even though I'm absolutely rubbish at anything that's not as
real life as the big simulators that the manufacturers have.

(17:07):
Then it's fine because then it's like, to me, it's
way more similar when I can go try take down
one flat and put it in the wall and then
to push reset. It's like there's a bit of a
disconnect with me. But I wanted to be involved. And
then when they introduced us, I think we clicked immediately
because we had the same goals and we're both very competitive,
and I think that they've done a good job. I mean,

(17:27):
how many teams are there in Prodigy right now?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Six teams and then there's a practice squad as well,
which sits with the drivers that were picked by the
fans almost to go along and be there as preserved drivers.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
What an opportunity for these kids.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, it's crazy. I always say, sits in a few
of these channels, and it's never really found its entity properly.
It's not worked out where he wants to sit. But
you have an esports channel which is about being the
best at driving that specific game, putting every single hour
in every single day to the point where you just

(18:02):
know every pixel of that game, you know every way
of making the cargo around the track the quickest, but
only in that title. And it doesn't mean that driver
doesn't have the skill set to do that in another game.
Just means the driver that they meet in the other
game is probably going to beat them straight away until
they get up to speed with that sim And some
sims compliment the driving style and that creates that kind
of esports world. But then you have what you kind

(18:23):
of talk about there, which is using sim racing as
a training tool. So how to test your cognitive load,
how to test the ability to stay focused, you know,
to deliver a qualifying lap when you need to. And
it's less about the physical performance you can do in
the simulating in comparison to real life. But say if
you do a one minute thirty lap time, you know
when you say to yourself that is going to be
my push lap and target that's the lap I'm going

(18:45):
to do, and actually hitting that and then you're learning
that skill set of actually I need to deliver and
jumping in out of the sim and using it as
just a training tool for real life. And then you
have this crazy gaming world of sim racing, which is
all about drifting on the streets and all the random
stuff that with it, which is the kind of fun
have a left far the falls of Horizon world as
I call it, which is you can do what you

(19:05):
want in any car you like. But yeah, so I
think Prodigy is that middle channel.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
It's the tie that ties the real world to the
same world. I mean, having said that, our drivers and
a lot of the other drivers do have some real
world experience, whether it's go karting or like Mazda or
something or other that ties them. But we've had what
two races so far now, and they basically pitch the
teams against each other. So it's very much a team

(19:32):
sport as opposed to so the format of the weekend
is practice practice, one driver out of the team qualifies
and then we race as a team. So it's not
like a specific driver is. I mean, they do get
the kudos when they win and everything, but it's it's
a very much team sport, which is slightly different to

(19:54):
what I'm used to. But what it does is it
forces them to work together. It forces us to work
with them, and I think then they're different experiences, just
like your different experiences from racing and coaching in sim
world and mine from real world. Like I think we've
seen it lately, for example with a couple of our drivers,

(20:15):
where it's learning how hard to push, whether they can
overdrive not overdrive, and so there's a lot of synergies,
but there's also a lot of differences, and I think
it's just very unique.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, And I think like it's also been a case
of you know, the shock of the real world, right,
you can everybody can be fast in the sim, but
transferring those skills over and I think it's completely different.
But the skill set that the sim racers learn is
to be so focused and analytical of data and everything,
and it's because it's almost a blessing and a curse.

(20:48):
They've got too much time in the sim and then
in the real world they have no time, so it's
it's like how so it's almost like compacting all of
that and then targeting the key things so look at
because they try to fix everything straight away, which is
impots and that's where the experience and the years of
driving different machinery and different tracks and coming across all
these different scenarios is, you know, the bit that kind

(21:08):
of outweighs their skills. But equally, I've been so impressed
with all the drivers on the whole grids. For just
like the first race I watched, we weren't even in
it and I had goose sprinkles and I was like,
I just I'm really nervous like this. This is something
that we've been as an industry because all the teams,
Lot's rivals, we're all working together to try and create
this and keep building on simmraating being a possible route

(21:31):
to motorsport and having its own space. And so it's
been a nice realization that they can do it. And
like you say, I know some of them have had
that kind of carting background, but it's all new machinery,
new tracks, and realistically not a lot of time to
get up to speed as well. So I think it's
been quite impressive to see how many of them are
so close together.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
I have two things have shocked me actually three. One
how good they are right like straight away, how good
they are. Two how quickly they've got up to speed,
and how quickly they've been able to go out on
track and just lay a good lap time down and
three like, how quickly they've been able to get used
to the car and everything as well. Like, I was

(22:13):
not expecting them to be as good as they are.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
And I'm kind of in the twilight of my.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Career now, I've got a few good years left, but
I don't, you know, I'm not at the beginning, and
I would be worried if I was a racing driver
now of these young kids coming up that are so talented.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
In your opinion, having.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Watched the first couple of races, what you expected it
to be and what it isn't like, what has surprised
you and what hasn't like?

Speaker 2 (22:51):
What did you actually expect?

Speaker 3 (22:53):
I expected more crashes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's another thing.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Absolutely, I'd really expect that. And I think what's crazy
about it is, obviously, you know, sim racing, you can
see everything from every single angle, so you get to
a real motor sport which is at you know, still
at a great level, but there's no TV broadcast. We
can't see what's happening every single corner, so we're only
looking at the onboards either the same day or the
day after, right, And I look, you know, two wide

(23:17):
and Decebering, and you're thinking, okay, wow, and they're both
close together, they're you know, the control of the cars
and the field that they have is a bit. I
think that shrucks me the most. You know, the lack
of fear seems to just be something that's shine through
most of the grid.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
That's normal, though, I feel like in real life and
SIM racing, I think that's a crossover thing. Also, if
you remember back, it's not as long as me, but
when I was sixteen to twenty two, which is kind
of the age group of these kids, I also had
no fear. Like I wasn't worried about crashing. I wasn't
worried about failing. I thought it was better than everybody,

(23:53):
you know. So I think that's also an age thing too.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. And I think, like
you say, it is that kind of simble feeling you
get from SIM racing as well. So yeah, so I
think in a way I expected, I kind of expected
both ends of this right Expectively, there are just lots
of crashes in the first round and difficult conversation with
the organizers about making sure to fix this problem and
to be all told off about racecraft and all the

(24:16):
rest of it right. But then equally, I really hoped
and I was quite confident in what I've seen with
all the drivers that have ever crossed over from James Baldwin,
Tomorrow's learner drivers that I've worked with that I've crossed
over to real wood and just been superb. Still they've
had that reality check. They've not been instantly the best
drivers in the world from the moment they get in
the car, but they've been able to go with the
right mindset. But yeah, I was hoping everybody would kind

(24:39):
of go that side of the sort of spectrum of
success for me. But I wasn't expecting that we'd be
sat here talking so in detail about the cars and
the setup so quickly. I thought that we would be
more limited by talent than we would be car setup.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
I am amazed, especially at Will, honestly he was on
our team. How good his feedback is, like how much
they feel the seat of their pants in the stream
or having not done too much. And I mean they're
very well studied and they want it, And one of
the things that I look like look for as the
coach is how much work are they putting in behind

(25:12):
the scenes mentally to want it really, really badly, And
I think that we see that with all of our drivers.
It's been so impressive the research that Will did with
the car and how what it needs, what we can
do setup wise, getting us all the information, like they
know the tracks inside out, they know literally. I love
that because I think you have to be that hungry

(25:33):
to want to make it. The other thing is the
media savvy, right Like Prodigy is televised, you'll be able
to watch it, so there's a certain element of drama
and we have to like exaggerate some things, but I
think that that's going to help to bring it more mainstream.
And just how well as a first year series they've

(25:53):
been doing. So all of these things have blown my mind.
How do you think the Prodigy organizers and the show
has been going in terms of for you commercially as guild.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
The expectation going in was that it was either going
to sink or swim, But I think what we saw
from just round ones round two was not that they'd
done anything wrong in round one, but they just, for example,
just needed a bit more resource and kind of underestimated
what they needed for track side support, and then by
round two has kind of fixed all those problems. And
I'm sure that you know the next round is going

(26:26):
to be just the same leap in what they do.
But from the broadcast standpoint and the kind of whole
documentary side, I think it was a shock at first
because I wasn't expecting it to be as the scale
it was. I thought it was going to be a
little bit lower down that and it feels very much
like Drive to Survive, which is exciting, and it.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Does actually you're right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, it's kind of okay into a dark room. I've
put a lot of makeup on in the last two rounds,
which I wouldn't expect in.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Else make up. By the way, we really need to
make sure that they're using.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
L I last next time. But yeah, so I think
it's going to be excited to see the documentary. I
think there's more to come in terms of them doing
more live TV stuff. I know they're doing that as
live broadcasts at a minute, but I think they're also
finding their feet still for us, it's been a great success.
I mean, our partners at Guild have been amazed that
we're actually track side with Guild on the side of

(27:18):
a car. And you know, a crazy part of this
whole thing is you forget insim rating the many roles
that are involved. There's been a lot of commentators that
have gone and done real life commentary, and a lot
of engineers that have gone off after doing their university
degrees where they've done a load of sim racing to
then go off and become real engineers, which is incredible.
But you also forget about the people that do the
graphic design. I think four of the liveries in Prodigy

(27:40):
are designed by the same person who started out as
a livery.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Design so good though, right, they really stand out speaking
of liveries and stuff like this Sucker Punch team, I
really think that we need a rival pickle. We need
to get some sponsors on the car so we also
have cool snacks and things in our bit.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, sucker Punches was interesting. I actually thought Socker Punch
was the sport like company. At first, I thought they
were just running the cars. I didn't realize they were
a massive company that sell pickles. But yeah, I mean,
even that story in itself is great. That's another person.
I mean Brian who runs Soucker Punch. You know, he
saw this as an opportunity and when he met David

(28:22):
the CEO, David had spent fifteen years I think it
was in Mazda m X five cup stuff and was
helping develop talent. And you know, Brian really has invested
in that whole idea of getting simracis to track and
has really believed in this project. And it takes those people,
and it takes them as from the SIM racing world
to prove that it can happen, right, And I think

(28:43):
it's been a perfect synergy so far that it will
only get better and better. And you've already seen their
testing for the next So we're on the P three
Championship at the minute, with the goal that will carry
talent to P two and then P one all overlap which.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Is the whole series and a ladder, and it's been
like the IndyCar ladder where you start in a Formula
car and then you go to the Indie lights or
what is Indy next now and then IndyCar and it's
going to be the same thing on the SIM racing side.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
I think that's a great idea.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, And as more SIM titles come out, you know
there's going to be more competitions, ways to enter, and
they really are just expanding, like to completely international audience
to pick up talent and put them in real cars,
which I think is just incredible.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Then maybe we can go international with a race series
as well and do like European Race or something like that.
We go home, what do you see your future? Do
you think you and Guild would go up into the
P two Championship and be a team that's involved and
you want to be team principal forever or is this
a diputeu in the water and then see what happens.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
I hope that with we go right through to P one,
right through all the championships and keep going, but that
this is also just a part of the journey for
Guild Racing that we also can then go on and
you know, potentially do more motorsport whereas whether it's you know,
national level or whatever. I work closely with with Motorsport
UK as well, so on the they have an esports committee,

(30:06):
which was also a crazy kind of realization. So I'm
part of the Sports committee for the second year yeah,
and it's about you know, governing and creating you know
a bit of regulation around sim racing, but also creating
googe events that are backed by the Motorsport UK you
know team, but also that the FIA are involved in
those competitions, you know, where I'm speaking to stewards and

(30:27):
people from the FAA about how we regulate sim racing
so that it's not only a safe environment for not
in terms of actual safety, but safe in terms of
safeguarding and making sure that there's a there's a rule book,
but it's situated in a way that it kind of
takes what's good in microsport, it takes the sim world
and combines to too. So yeah, I mean for me, you know, personally,

(30:48):
my goal is to do more stuff track side. And
I think as we spoke about kind of the transition
and talent development, we you know, a lot of us
that are the team principles. This is us in that
kind of period as well, so figuring out how we
could transition and do stuff, and you know, I think
that's opening a lot of exciting opportunities. And there's a
lot of people that I'm friends with that I've learned

(31:09):
a lot from them from being coaches in real life,
from being you know, individuals that do management of teams
or operations. So I think there's a big yeah, yeah exactly.
And the drivers that have come out of driving to
do other roles as well, and so there's there's you know,
lots of different people in this network of SIM racing
and motorsport, and so I think it's it's really exciting

(31:30):
and the beauty of the industry. It's kind of good
and bad.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Right.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
We don't really know where it's going in sim racing,
but to be there at the right time is the
key thing. And I think one of us have been there,
yeah yeah, and it could really boom.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, I think it already is.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
I mean, I think this is testament to how good
you know a training ground it can be for a
lot less money as well. Like if you think about it,
to get to the level that they're racing it in
those radicals, if you've done it real world racing, it
would have probably cost you for hundred thousand pounds or
five hundred thousand dollars just to get to that level.
And they've done it on what like a couple of

(32:07):
grands worth of equipment in their bedroom.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
So that's pretty impressive.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
And I think now is that, you know, using Prodigy,
using all of the things kind of we spoke about,
it's understanding where SIM races now can find gateways into
mitrosport and where it still works that you know, a
lot of the SIM racing businesses try to look at
ways of changing motorsport, which I think is almost impossible, right,
It's going to be difficult to change the way the

(32:32):
motorsport works financially. You know, these seats are still going
to cost money and they're still going to need partners
and people there. But what it is a case of
doing is showing that there's talent in some racing and
that you've put if you put them trackside and helping
them build their cvs, they can actually be some of
the best drivers in the world. And so it's almost
like kind of preaching to the am drivers that when
you want your pro driver, try to bring in a
SIM racer and you know where. I think that's the bit.

(32:54):
It's that discovery process of where is the kind of
top of the pyramid, as well as Prodigy, which is incredible.
I think what's important is after somebody's done the P
three P two and P one Championship that they actually
now then get onto the proper microsport ladder and are
up against price.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Well, I think that should be a price, right, Like
I think if they win the P one Championship, then
they should get an IMS ride with a team or
something like that so that they see that there's no
barrier to entry then and they see this prize at
the end of it, and then you can literally become
a professional driver without having to invest any money yourself.
Although I do think there are skills that you need

(33:29):
to learn about finding sponsors, working with sponsors, looking at
the commercial side, looking at the business side, how to
market yourself as a brand, et cetera, et cetera. But
I think that could definitely be added on. But in
my crazy mind too, it's like if racing ever didn't
become a thing because of emissions and because we're going
electric and because of all these things, then would sim

(33:51):
racing actually take over as something that was watched globally
by fans as the real racing racing? You know, because
I guessarantee you that if you took real world drivers
out of the real world and put them in the SIMS,
I don't think they would win championships against the SIM drivers.
I really don't some of them maybe. Oh the other

(34:11):
thing I wanted to say, Actually, you were saying about safety,
and I have seen a couple of real world drivers
get in trouble by what they say on when they're racing,
on the forums that you guys use, and so how
do you stop bullying and that kind of thing to you.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
So safeguarding in SIM racing is really important and for
many years people didn't realize that it was so important
as well. But I think you're never going to remove
these things. You can educate around them. But I think
what we've done really well is so part of the
British British Efform Championship, the Sports Championship is we actually
managed to bring in race with respect. So it's very
easy nowadays to crash them, be out of a race,

(34:52):
or be involved in an incident and somebody to send
you a private message and kick off at you. What
I always do with the drivers is work with the
drivers to say, your teams to support you, so as
a driver you don't need to answer back to it,
you don't need to fight your own corner and feel
alone and feel like you have to defend yourself, but
we're here as a team to support you, and so
we're working with proper stewards in my export UK that
will listen to supporters. But we actually managed to bring

(35:14):
in race with respects last year. It was quite a
big achievement to be able to bring that in and
there was actually a kind of hearing available for some
of the comments that we'd had sent to us to
one of the drivers and I said, you know, we
don't need that. The work is done. Why you bringing
in race with respect which is your real life policy?
And again this year has been properly embedded across the
championship and you know that's really important. But I think

(35:34):
you know it's hard online. There's a lot of controversy
that happens in some racing. Everybody likes to chip in.
You know, I've been on the receiving end of that.
You know, it is what it is, and that you've
just got to accept and move on from. And it's
across all of the sports as well, So it happens
all the time and within a week it's old news,
or within a day it's old news nowadays. But I
think a lot of drivers aspire to be real life drivers,

(35:57):
so I think there's often a period where those drivers
maybe lose bit of kind of respect those real life
drivers from what they say. But it's also very easy,
and we see it in real life where people say
things they don't particularly mean. I mean, a dayta un
and twenty four hours is a perfect prime example of
people falling out and then shaking hands and then carrying on.
So I think it's you know, I think there was
a bit with Vettel said it in a press conference once,

(36:19):
which is as a high performance athlete, you say things
sometimes you don't mean, but you don't mean to say
them to that person. And I think that's true to life,
like everybody does that. We do that every day, right.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Controlling emotions, especially the age and everything that they're at.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yeah, yeah, And we try to work on that when
they're at a young age, when they're sim racing, try
to build that and get them to learn that, you know,
how to keep control in those moments, and constantly putting
them in the high pressure situations is important because we
want them to do that so that we can teach
them not to do it right. So it's one of
those things. But it's hard, and you know, we have

(36:53):
to kind of look out for each other in this industry.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
I think the other thing I'm going to find interesting
that I haven't quite put my finger on yet is
the fitness aspect. Like it is easy ish to drive
a sim even with force feedback, however high you said it,
whatever you're doing, it's not real life g forces. Like
I wonder if they're fit enough and strong enough to
do three hour stints in a car that's one hundred

(37:18):
degrees and it's brutal. Are they training enough do you
think in preparation or are not yet?

Speaker 3 (37:25):
No? I don't think so. I think you know, a
SIM racer can go out and do two decent laps
and be on it straight away, but then starts to
feel the strange straight away, and there's no amount of
preparation that they can do to limit that, really, because
they don't know what preparation is unless they've got a
personal trainer that's in motorsport that can target those areas.
So I think you can have assimiration with very good
physical fitness and you know, core strength and all the

(37:47):
rest of it. But I think those forces are always
going to be a shock to the system. You know,
some SIM races use high forces and everything, some use low.
I think probably one of the things that you can
train really well with the SIM is been able to
put good breaking force into a pedal. You know, I'm
somebody that uses like a crazy amount of force on
a brake pedal. But the flip side is that, you know,

(38:09):
any sports actually using a very low amount can be
actually quite good. So you've kind of got all these
different extents to it in different variables, and everybody's in
races in a different way. But I think there's ways
of using a SIM to train yourself to be able
to do things. You can turn stuff up, you can
again use it as a training tool to target key areas.
But ultimately, you know, that's the shock to the system.
The neck and everything is the bit that I think

(38:30):
most drivers will have felt in Prodigy straight away.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
And we're lucky in Prodigy we have Jim Leo, who
obviously is pitfit and so he's telling them what they
need to be doing.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
I just hope that.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
They are doing it away from the race track because
they're also like they're at college, or they've got jobs,
or their time management is going to be key for
that as well.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah, and I think, you know, they are really taking
it on board. I think it's just, you know, probably
a bit like staring at the data. There's just so
much to take on board. And that's where that experience
comes in, where the more you're racing, the more you know,
oh okay, I need to work on this area. And
it's less about working on everything. It's more about targeting
a certain area for you know, a certain car. But
you know, generally they're improving, and I think at least
with the Radical, you know, you do need a good

(39:11):
overall fitness, but at least it's not too extreme. And again,
you know they're probably going to notice it as they
go up through P three, P two and P one,
which is probably quite a good thing as well.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah. At Seabring, I drove the Radical and I drove
the Revolution that they're evaluating for next season. And the
Revolution had power steering map on the wheel where you
could either turn it up or turn it down, which
I thought was really good because maybe then you can
train yourself. I like a heavy wheel because I came
from open wheel and it's kind of heavy. I don't

(39:41):
like the power assistans steering so to a degree, I
will say to a degree. So I thought that was
really cool that they would have the chance then to
make it you know, like keep turning it up and
keep getting used to that.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, that's a good point and that probably fits really
nicely into the training for them as well, because I
think it's also hard, you know, to be strong and
then also at the correct weight as well, which is
a big factor. Right, So yeah, I think it's a
massive learning for all of them. You know, even the
fitness work that they do with them at Prodigy Week
is you know, how many push ups can you do?

(40:14):
You know, how quickly does your body recover when it's
been at one hundred and ninety beats per minute for
ten minutes? You know, all the stuff that you probably
don't really think about when you go on your own
to the gym to go and do a workout. And
also there's a million and one pieces of information online
and everything says it's the best piece of information and
you should do the certain ding And actually I think
just getting in the car and being engulfed in the

(40:35):
whole racing Prodigy series, they're just going to learn so much, like.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, there's nothing like it it's the same with like
training your neck. I've found nothing like it apart from driving.
It's like, unless you're actually out there racing, you can learn,
but it doesn't it doesn't go in in the same way.
You know, you don't you don't figure it out as quickly.

(41:07):
I'm excited to get to Homestead. I am so competitive
for you and for our four drivers. I do think
that we have two of the best drivers on the grid. Honestly,
I believe in them one hundred and ten percent, so
I'm expecting great things.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
I would like to see them kind.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Of be a bit more confident, come into their own
and being able to showcase a little bit more of
what they're capable of, and I'm sure that they will
in Homestead. The team that we're up against is also
really good, and I think we have definitely showed that
we are the cream of the crowd. Pass too. Yeah,
what are you expecting.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
I think we're going to be good. We've now kind
of got to a track that has a new part
to it with the banking, so I think that's the
bit that we're going to see. Basically, all the hard
work you do on the infield disappear when you get
onto the banking and somebody just overtakes you because they've
just got the slipstream right. So I think racecraft is
probably going to be quite key in this one, and
I think that's anaria that a few of them have

(42:03):
struggled in. But I think getting up to speed, they'll
be fine, and I think that we've seen that they've
been pretty confident in that. I think Nathan is one
that I'm hoping pulls it back a bit from being
his usual driving style of being really over the limit
and just puning it back and trying to work on himself.
But I think, yeah, I think it'll be an exciting track.
The banking is a bit that's going to be unique,
and it'll be their first time on banked long corner as.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Well, So yeah, I think there's a lot of emphasis
put on that, and I think once they get on
the banking, they're going to be like, huh, kind of
boring because it's going to be kind of flat and easy.
And then yeah, I let you say the racecraft, but
I know you said some of them have struggled, and
some of them have, but I've been impressed with our
guys in their racecraft. They haven't made any touch wood yet.
They haven't made any crazy moves. They've been very conservative

(42:48):
and the moves that they have done, they've committed to
and made work. And I have to say it's as
the first level into their real life racing for a
I think it's great.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah, it's good. I think we're just at the stage
where some of them sometimes are a bit overconfident and
maybe make a mistake trying to send a move and
are quite as in control as they thought. But yeah,
I mean, yeah, it's I'm definitely being too critical on them,
but I think and I think this is certainly a
circuit that will force them to have to do more
in terms of racecraft. I think the racecraft where they've
known they've had the pace advantage or they've had good

(43:23):
corners they can overlap and make moves on, they've been
really good and confident and clear and making those moves.
And I don't think there's been a silly move really.
It's been some crazy side by side, which was a
testament to drivers, like even from the other teams. Just
the respect has been really good. But I think and
maybe towards the end of the season, we're going to
see a little bit closer action, but I think, yeah,

(43:44):
the rivalry we've got with TC is good. Obviously they've
got some great drives as well, so I'm expecting a
good race there. But I think Homestead will just just
have its own characteristic a little bit like Nola did.
And obviously the cars are two hundred percent for us
as well, so they've been limited the whole time. Now
we get to see kind of full performance going to
come at term on with quite a lot of speed

(44:04):
as well, So yeah, there's a couple of things to work.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
On with all speed too.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, I think it'll probably be the fastest those guys
have ever been in real life.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
And I have been super impressed with their teamwork, Like
I feel like our team gelled, and they all help
each other and they all try and make each other better.
There is no politics or backstabbing or anything that I
kind of was expecting, you know. I think they've all
been great, and I've just been so impressed with the
camaraderie and gelling.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
I guess, yeah, I remember a pick of them thinking
Laurence is a pilot, professional pilot, He's going to be yeah, right,
crazy just and he's doing this as well, and it's mad,
but he's you could be analytical and smart with data
and very accurate. I knew Will had good experience in
real life, which which would help. And you know the

(44:57):
the Nathan and Amy both showed really good comment ffidence
when I first met them, really confident and just passionate
about about racing. So I thought it was a good group.
Obviously politics to one side. If they were going to
bring any drama, we would never know, but in terms
of what they had as assets and their mindset, I
think it could have been a good group. Yeah, So
it's been really nice to see that. And even I
remember Nathan the first time I saw him at Round one.

(45:20):
You know, he arrived at the airport, he was flying
on the same flight as me, and he turned up
with this confidence that was either going to be he
could be fantastic or he was just going to spin
and just the confidence would disappear, and he's just gone
on to be mega, you know, and I love that
as well. So yeah, so they're a really good group,
really good teamwork. They work well together. They all want
to win, they want to support each other. There's there's
bits of on board where you know, they're communicating with

(45:42):
their hands about who to overtake, when to overtake. There's
just really good synergy and they you know, it gets
to qualify and we have to pick a fastest drive.
We have to pick the drive we think is right,
and we can have a really adult, professional conversation about it.
You know, we think this for this, and this give
the reasons, and they're very happy to go with whatever decision,
which I think is really nice and a lot of
respect for them.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, they've all been really great at that actually, and
we haven't necessarily picked on speed or whatever as well.
We've been working on strategy behind the scenes. So I'm
very happy with how that's coming along. I will say
I think Amy has a lot of talent, a lot
of natural talent. I wish she was more confident. I
wish there was a way I could bring out the

(46:23):
inner animal in Amy so that she would push harder
straight away. It goes to show how women approach things,
definitely to men, and I've seen this a lot. Girls
tend to like take baby steps and creep up at
the limit, whereas the guys are innately more confident and
they'll go out and they'll stick it on the limit
or over the limit and bring it back because they're
confident in their own ability to be able to do that,

(46:43):
whereas the girls will kind of creep up at it,
and we just don't have that much time that we can.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Creep up with it.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
So I've tried making her angry, I've tried motivating her
with you know, we believe in you. I just wish
I wish I could shake her and be like, we
know you can do it. We need you to know
that you can do it and go out there and
do it from the get go. But that leads me
into my final question actually, which is does esports have
more women? Is it more accessible to women, is it

(47:12):
more friendly to women? Is it a way that we
can get more women in racing.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Yeah, so gild literally works with Sky to create a
campaign to bring in women races into SIM racing. I
think there is a lack of female races in sim racing,
and you know, we have a platform that is still
difficult to enter with esports and sim racing, but it's
more accessible than mitorsport.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
What percentage of drivers in SIM racing do you think
of are women?

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Right now?

Speaker 3 (47:38):
I'd say it's probably like ten or fifteen percent.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Wow, it's still loves. Do you think that girls just
don't like racing as much as boys do.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
It's really interesting. So my story at the minute of
the talent that we literally have in our academy that
joined this year. She came in off the street for
her first time. She'd never sim race before, she'd had
no interest in microsport. She got in the simric and
just had the ability to drive and loved it. Was
really good Super Analytica then. So she didn't actually win

(48:07):
the competition, but we signed her. We've wanted to in
the in the team, and I'm going to work with
her really closely to see how well she she was
driving the F one game. So we're going to put
her into iras and get her in things like Master's
MX five's F fours and really play around and just
see where her skill set sits. But she loves it.
And I think they're still a barrier to entry with
SIM racing. It's obviously a lot a lot lower than motorsport.

(48:29):
I think we, you know, have seen a big shift
in motorsport. I also think we're waiting for the generations
to come through a lot of work has been done
in the last you know, four or five years with
women in motorsport, but I just don't think those generations
have come through. And I'm hoping that when that flood
comes through, we also see it in sim racing as well,
because there are no end of parents pushing their kids
to get into to cuts and go to Formula one.

(48:51):
And I'm sure we're going to see it with with
female races as well. So we're big advocates of Guild
to try and create that, and you know, that's that's
really important, and you know, I think we will see more,
I hope.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
So that's my hopes and dreams for this as well,
is that it's a lot more accessible and maybe you
don't feel like such a different standout or you know,
I've always felt a little bit like I'm on my
own little Catherine Island, being one of the only ones,
and so I would like to think that there is
support and positive role models, because to see it is

(49:23):
to be it, right, Like if you see other girls
doing it and then they'll talk about it like the
boys do, and then maybe it will be like a
snowball effect.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Or that's at least what I'm hoping.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
And I think that's it's definitely happening. Yeah, it's just
it's just taken a little bit of time. But there's
so much work being done and you know, some great
organizations that are promoting you know, women in my export
as well. So I think simmirating again is a great
place where we can help to push that and our
sympacility that's just open is over to the public. And
I think there was a really good percentage there of

(49:54):
the people that were coming off the street or coming
from schools was about thirty to forty percent. It was gills.
So if we can keep that up, we can get
to a nice number, then that could be really good.
And again we now open up kind of this disability
to take a driver from off the street into a SIM,
be able to go through all the SIM competitions and
potentially qualify for Prodigy, right, And that's our literal a

(50:15):
to B of putting a girl into a car, which
would be incredible.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah, I mean it is literally the only spot on
the planet that we can compete at equally. So and
I will say thank you very much for joining me.
I will see you there, Thanks.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
For having me. And yeah, hopefully we go get another
couple of wins.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Thanks for listening to throttle Therapy. We'll be back next
week with more updates and more overtakes.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
We want to hear from you.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts and tell us
what you want to talk about. It might just be
the topic for our next show. Throttle Therapy is hosted
by Katherine Lege. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz, and
our supervising producer is Grace Fuse. Listen to Throttle Therapy
on America's number one podcast network, I Heart. Open your

(51:03):
free iHeart app and search throttle Therapy with Catherine Leigh
and start listening.