August 21, 2024 • 45 mins
In this episode of TMI, Tamika D. Mallory and Mysonne interview Dr. Benjamin Chavis, a political and civil rights icon. They discuss the importance of understanding history and the struggles that have taken place in Black America. Dr. Chavis shares his personal experiences growing up in a racially segregated America and his involvement in the civil rights movement. He emphasizes the need for education, self-love, and unity within the Black community. The conversation also touches on the significance of the DNC convention, the rise of Black women in leadership, and the challenges faced by Black youth.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tamika D.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Mallory and it Shit Boy my Son in General.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
We are your host of TMI.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, Motivation and Inspiration New Energy.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Hello everybody, this is a new episode of TMI, and
it is the summer. It's August, and so you know,
things have been a little bit different in terms of
what we've been doing with the show during this month.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But we will be.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Back to our regularly scheduled programming come September after our
semi vacation, but it's not really a vacation because we
still have been bringing you all very very important content.
Last week, my son sat down with a group of
brothers many that I respect, all of them that I respect,
(00:52):
and had a really really powerful conversation and I hope
that you all have an opportunity to listen into that.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We're back to my Son the General. You're back. We're
here for.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Another week, and today we're jumping straight into an interview
with a very very important political and civil rights icon.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
We are at the convention.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
We're literally in Chicago at the DNC, and so there's
so much happening. If you could see everything going on
on the other side, of this device, you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Would know how how busy it is.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
But it was very important for us to bring context
because one of the things that I think we both know,
my son, is that the Internet is telling us all
types of things. Misinformation, people uninformed, people don't know history,
people really don't understand the road that has been traveled
(01:50):
to get not only to this moment, but the fights
that have taken place and the struggle that has gone
on in our world and certain me in America, in
Black America for a long time. And so we asked
this icon to join us this morning. And if you
don't know who he is, please do your research. We
(02:13):
are talking with doctor Benjamin Chaevs, not just Ben Chavis
we so used to calling him ben Chaevs. His doctor
Benjamin Schaevs. And he his current job is the President
and CEO of the National Newspaper Publishers Association. That's the
National Newspaper Publishers Association n NPA. But he has you
(02:38):
have you are here with us so many other things
that make you a legend.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That's your current.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Work that you are involved in, which is still a
form of activism, telling our stories to us by us
in Black newspapers all across the country, and I'm shore
you there. You know it expands beyond that, but you
are truly a legend in the civil rights movement. We
just want to welcome you and thank you so much
for joining us this morning.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Well, thank you, Tamika my son. I'm so honored to
be in your presence. You know, Fredick doesn't said it best.
Freedom is a conscious rugg say. Each generation I'm so
proud of has risen to the occasion. And it's not
just a simple matter of passion. At the time, I
wish it was that simple. It was really how to
(03:29):
renew and regenerate our consciousness as a people. Who are
we in the world, Who are we in America? Not
only what our past has been, but how does our
pass inform our presence and our future. That's why I'm
so honored to be here with you at the Democratic
National Convention, this pivotal moment in world history. You know,
(03:51):
you know, soroart the system. I want you to know
all of my family, my mother, my sisters, my grandmother,
all akas so I got a lot of pink and
green in Oxford, North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Oh so your family, your family picked the right sorority
to be a part of. I just want to make
sure everybody knows very serious matter. And Vice President Harrison
also an AKA, so you know we're on the right track.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Absolutely absolutely. But I'm a native of Oxford, North Carolina.
I was born in nineteen forty eight, so I grew
up in the nineteen fifties when everything was racially segregated.
But you know, even though things were segregated, I learned
so much about black history, black knowledge, black scholarship, black excellence,
(04:38):
and you know, I didn't know that much about white
people because I was separated from you know, I knew
about your question. I knew about a popeive, but I
never saw a white student to my sophomore year in college.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Wow, and what college did you go to that to bend?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
The first college was sant of Dustin's College at HBCU
and Ralegh, North Carolina, and transferred to UNC. I was
a chemistry nator And when I tried to get into
UH the North Carolina State, which is the white school
or UNC the West, they told me they were not
accepting black students unless I majored in music. That was
(05:16):
I said, no, I want to major in science and
Young Robert music, but that wasn't my field, and so
I was dissuaded. Which is fine because going to the
HBCU the first couple of years was the best decision
of my life. And uh he gave me a grounder.
So by the time I transferred to University of North
(05:37):
Carolina to finish my chemistry degree, I actually was ahead
of the white student. They used to say, well, where
did you come from? Who taught you this organic chemistry
and physical chemistry? And uh, you know nucle can, I said,
some black teachers at a black school. That's what talk.
Because you know, I think sometimes we underestimate not only
(05:59):
where we get education, but how we get our education.
And so I grew up in the movement. I was
got my na CITP car when I was twelve years old.
I started working for SELC Doctor my little kingdom. When
I was fourteen. Put my age up. We're not supposed
to drive to sixteens. I put my age up. I
had mobility. I was driving. You know, I grew up fast.
(06:23):
James Bonder now became very close friends and he used
to tell me them party some writing that the pen
is powerful them to sow it. So I started writing
for the Black Press when I'm eleven years old in
the sixth grade. And now, as God would have it,
for the last eleven years, I've been to president of
the CEO of Other Black Press of America National Newspaper
(06:44):
public and Association. But as to me, could say it
in the intro, what I do now is informed by
many decades of other struggle. To me, when you have challenges,
that's preparation. I once asked Reginald Lewis, who was the
first Black building. I said, Regel, tell me one word
out of the English language that led to your financial success,
(07:06):
and he said, preparation, preparation. We have to prepare ourselves
to deal with the struggles. We have to prepare ourselves
to learn. And then I started working in the African
liberation movements in Africa. I joined the a n C.
I used to write for the a n C, the
Afghan Acts and youth publication of the SPARE while I
(07:30):
was you know, in college and high school. And then
from nineteen sixty three to nineteen sixty eight, I was
the youth coordinator for Selan Crisis Leadership COMPS until the
day that doctor King was killed in nineteen sixty eighty
and eight. So I've been around the blocks a few times.
But you know what, my son and Tamika, most of
them sister in the community that they don't know about
(07:52):
the nap or the mean Man March. They know me
from the movie Ballet. I was the minister in Bellet.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You know, I just told you that I was about
I was about to bring that up.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Just now.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I go to anyhood and they said, that's the minister
from fail. But that shows you the importance though not
only our all tradition, but our our our image, our
visual tradition, particularly now among millennials and generation disease. Not
only what we hear or even what we see us
(08:24):
a hip hop. Hip hop is what you feel. It's
just not what you see, but what you hear is
what you feel. And so I think our movement has
been successful to the extent to which we can not
only yes, people can feel our impression oh pressure, but
can people feel our liberation and people feel what we
(08:45):
need to do to change our quality of life. And
that's why I have so much respect for you what
you're and Tanika do, because you help people feel the
reality of our struggle for freedom, justice, and required, and
I'm sorry. I'm gonna give you a short answers to
no no.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I just want to say, first of all, it is
an honor to be able to interview you, to be
able to know you, to be in space with you,
to get you know, be able to be tutored by
just listening to you, you know, last night, talking all
the times I've been in your presence, and just hearing
the wisdom that you have and knowing how legendary who
you are. And it's a shame that our youth are
(09:25):
not only no belly, right, is only no belly. But
when you listen to the history you know that you've
you've been through. I just want to know, like what
what were some of the things that you you picked
up working with doctor King?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Well, I picked up working doctor King. Is that you
know the eloquence behind the podium, The eloquence on the
stage of life is informed by what happens off the stage.
It's informed by what happens before you get to the
before you get the mic. You know, before you can
(10:03):
drop the mic. You got a hold of mincy, know
what I'm saying. So as we pick up the mic
of like I'm talking about as we broadcast as back
we're doing now, as we articulate, as we disseminate information.
You know, we're informed by our lived experience, and so
I've been blessed to me and my sign too. I
(10:25):
have had lived experiences with Doctor King, live experiences with
Malcolm X, lived experiences with Minister Farra Con, lived experiences
with doctor Doctor Height, lived experiences with Rose a Pause,
lived experiences, you know, Nelson Mandela winning Mandela. I was
with Cuban troops on the ground, and I was being
(10:48):
a fox over to the troops fighting the South African
potactic DA in the mid nineteen eighties. Because one of
the things I found out that you know, it's one
thing to talk liberation. It's one thing uh engage in armstructure.
It's another thing to engage in putting your life on
the front line. You know. Look, I spent most of
the nineteen seventies in prison because I be very honest.
(11:11):
I was mad. I was mad as hell, and they
killed Doctor King in nineteen sixty eight. But I learned
the channel my anger into something a modus operandi that
could help inspire to make sure his dream was not assassinated.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
How long were you incarcerated, doctor.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Ben six and a half years, but I had a
thirty four year sentence. I spent most of the nineteen
seventies in prison. The women to ten case, that's the
whole I could talk to you about, the whole program
that they just on the Wilmington tent on all I'm
so proud of the young people and women's in All
Carolina who stood up to racial white supremacy in the
(11:46):
school system. And because they stood up eight high school
student leaders, sixteen seventeen, eighteen year olds, myself, I was
only twenty three years old and a white anti poverty
work a woman who was also a hotelmness with ten
of us were sent us to two hundred and eighteen
years in prison, and I had to lunch since thirty four,
(12:08):
thirty four years. And so the analogy is when I
heard that Donald Trump had thirty four convictions, thirty four felons,
I said, with damn, I wonder how much sand he's
gonna get it, you know. And of course we got
that time because we bought white supremacy. But one of
the things I learned from doctor King that is.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
So big, But I really don't I don't want you.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
To brush bast that because that's real, that is so
so significant, not that you were, which you know, we
don't have any judgment on this show around what people
may have done and how they you know, what road
they traveled, but you weren't scamming and killing or any
(12:52):
of that. Your path to being incarcerated was because of
your involvement in the civil rights movement.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yes, absolutely, and I think that to me, I'm always
indebted to my mentors. I had great mentors, Floyd Mchison
who founded the Conservational Quality you know, Marcaine the Kingdom
founded the Solitary's Leadership Conference. I used to drive I
told the car. Yes, I used to drive his father,
(13:24):
Cleave Sellers and Stoker Comack around when they were in Snick.
Because back in the day, you just want any one black,
oder says you in every black if it was black,
I'm in. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That sounds like my parents and my life. How I
grew up in Harlem. We went to the Nation of Islam.
We went to National Action Network, we went to the
Black Church, we went to the street corners, we went
to anything that had to do with black empowerment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
At the slave theater.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
My parents were dead, so it was one thing I
guess I should point out anthropologically and geneologically. I was
really blessed to me could and my son to be
born in a family. The land we live on in Oxton,
North Carolina has been in my family for over two
hundred years. My great great great great grandfather was the
(14:12):
Reverend John Chambers. He was the first brother to Bill
Dain as a presidter in minister. But what significant is
it was a freedom fighter. He was an educator. Now
this was before the Nat. Turner Insurrection. My grandfather was
born in seventeen sixty seven, fought in the Revolutionary War,
came an ordained minister, the educator. But in the early
(14:33):
nine eighteen thirty then Turner Insurrection happened. The state of Virginia,
the state of North Carolina, the state of South Carolina,
the state of Georgia, State of Alabama, and Statelissis passed
the law making it a fella and to teach black
Side to read and write a felon. So my great
great grandfather was an educator, so he set up an
(14:54):
underground school in Grandma County, my home county, Native County.
His county, and so he taught white students by day
and black students secretly by night. But they caught up
with him. My grandfather was beating the death back in
the day there were no cars. They had horse and bugget,
and they beat him to death, hid his body, cut
(15:17):
the head off of his horses, and took the head
of his horse to his wife. And we never found
his grade. They didn't want us to honor him in
a funeral. So I grew up with that kind of
history in my family. I come from a generation, yes,
of educators menisince i'man all they minister myself. But the
(15:38):
underlying common donative common denominated for the males and females
in my family were freedom fighters. So I had no choice, man,
you know. And I was in the fourth grade strip
uh uh. Going back to the first grade, I knew
what racism was and and and I knew that something
that we should not have been tolerated. So I was
(15:59):
one of the impatient. Yeah, I was impatient in my family.
And that's why by the time I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
I thought I was grown. I'm ready to get it on.
But get it on from the wisdom of the past,
and like I said, I had great mentors, and that's
when I try to be now to our brothers and
sisters today as a mentor, not just as a leader,
(16:21):
but as a mentor, because none of us will be
here forever. But while we are blessed to be here,
let's pass something on. Let's pass something wrong, so the
next generation won't have to go through the same things
that we go through.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
You know, well, doctor Ben, before you go, before you
go forward on that because one of the reasons why
we wanted to talk with you today. As we sat
together last night in a very private meeting, you know,
I was thinking a lot about my son and I
have been talking about the history of this whole idea
(17:01):
of the Convention. Right, we know this is not the
first time in Convention history that there has been major
tension around different social issues. And the meeting that we
were at last night, we were specifically dealing with the
issue of black and Palestinian liberation and how our struggles
(17:24):
are intertwined. And it made me think so much about
nineteen sixty eight and the climate for which that particular
convention took place. And I know you have so much
that you can share with us about that, and so
just you know, want to give you, you know, an
opportunity to talk about nineteen sixty eight, who were the operators,
(17:49):
what was give us the team on what was going down.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
I was a young youth delegate from all Calina, my
home state, nineteen sixty eight. And keep in mind, the
nineteen six convention happened in the wake of doctor King's assassination.
They happened in the wake of Robert Kennedy's assessments. And
then you had Richard Nixon running for president with Spiro Agnue,
(18:16):
the former governor of Maryland, who were running on a
law and order campaign, and so lor and O. It
wasn't just with the Republicans the Democrats. Also. Mayor Dale
was a Democratic mayor, but he sik the police on
the protest, brutally beating people down as they tried to
exercise their person in the right. I was inside the
(18:37):
convention center and I was telling somebody last night to me,
what a change time brings. From sixty eight to two
thousand and four, we couldn't even we had to fight
even to get be able to sit down in a
convention in nineteen They didn't want black people to be delicates.
They didn't want black people to be pages. They didn't
(18:59):
want black people to have a media station. They don't
want They were trying to exclude black folks in nineteen sixty.
In fact, Julian Bob finding Lou Hayman had to go
to court just to get the right to sit down
in the convention. So now we run in the convention.
Black women are running the convention. You know what I'm saying.
And a lot of times to me, I'm glad you
(19:21):
asked that question, because we live in the present and
sometimes the president evil overwhelms us or underwhelms us. Well,
we we think that what's happening today is suspended in
today's reality. But this is a long evolutionary struggle, you know,
even in the DNC. And let me just point something out, Uh,
(19:44):
the Democrats were the original white supremacists. And my home
state of North Carolina, the Democrats were the original white
supremacists who attacked women to North Carolina. Because blacks have
formed a fusion with the Republicans, look out the script
this flip. The Republican Party was once a part of Lincoln.
Now it's the party of the white supremacists. Now it's
(20:07):
the party of of of far white uh racism and
the semitism you just named.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Where was the switch again, sir? Because there's always.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Late late eighteen hundreds, okay, late.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Always this thing that the Republicans is actually the party
for black people, and this and that that you don't.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Know, y'all, No, no history. You got to know that history.
The script was flip flipped, you know. Uh. Jessic Hams
used to be a Democrat. He became a Republican with
the Desocrats. And UH. These are the people who fought
when Sturgood Marshingtom got the Brown Decision in nineteen such four,
UH saying that UH surrogate's schools was unconstitutional. You had
(20:50):
all these people who wanted to assassinate Tilgod Marshall, you know,
because of that litigation, because they didn't want black and
white kids toy ever go to school together. Because we
may find out something, and that is there's no such
thing as white superiority. There's no such thing in UH.
While it is an ideology of white supremacy, it's a
(21:13):
fake ideology. It has no substance, It has no answer
bout other than the brutal translantic slavery that they engage us.
And I want to plug a book that's coming out
in September to make I gotta get through my son,
uh Sayty Brown, one of our writers, and the Nytry
we just published, you know, it's coming out in September.
(21:36):
And the Translanta slave trade, because Translanta slatrade didn't just
started in sixteen nineteen, It started in fifteen hundreds. The
translation staty was going on one hundred years before they
brought the first slave to the Virginia shore. And this brutality,
this inhumanity, uh you know. So to me, going back
(21:57):
to Tamika's question, I'm honored just to witness what's going
on here, But it also means we have the responsibility
that what are those struggles, what are those alloness? We
should have? Well, what can we learn? What do we
know about the Middle East? What do we know about
nineteen forty eight? What do we know about the United Nations?
(22:18):
What do we know about World War two? My father
was a better than of World War One? Do we
know the sacrifice that Black troops made going to the
front line in France fighting for democracy and then they
get wounded and they can't even come back home on
the ship. They came back home on the ship the
German prisons. German prisons was treated better than black soldiers
(22:40):
who fought the Germans. I mean, all this stuff, and
so I used to ask my fatsid dad, what's going on?
He said, sons, one day you understand and appreciate the
sacrifices that we made. We know that racism, but we
fought for America because hopefully one day America the chine
and yes, America is changing, but still ain't changing fast enough,
(23:02):
you know, And that's our role. Each generation has to
push that envelope, push those questions and push that reelly.
But at the same time, I am concerned about our
state of consciousness as a people. You know, I was
involved in the Black Power when Look when I was
a kid. If you call somebody black, that was a
cuss work, people will cut you out. They think we
(23:25):
were so ashamed of our blackness, would sure a claim
of our color, were so ashamed of I have was
sure a shamed of our nose, our lips because let
me just chaw with you. When I was in the
first grade, even though there was a black elementary school
because of segregation, the white school system told us what
books we had to read. So I learned how to
read out of a book called Sambo. And Sambo was
(23:51):
a of a disfigured little African brother who only ate
pancakes with dripping served you all jip down there, you know.
It was like they made him like somebody. Well, I
don't want to be like sample, but but but but
planting it in the seats of black students in the
(24:12):
first place. So well, I don't want to be black,
I want to be white. That's why I when the
bullets study with black dogs and white dogs, A lot
of black children true white dogs, because that's how they've
been miseducated. You know, college wasn't headed right, the miseducation
of the negro you know. And so one of the
(24:33):
fights we have in twenty twenty four, it's about education,
it's about uh, it's about curriculum, it's about consciousness.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I'm glad you went there.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I'm glad you a part of Project twenty twenty five,
which is the conservative Republican platform that we know Donald
Trump endorses.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
While he says he does not. We know why he's
denying it.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
But Project twenty twenty five we know, had some very
very dangerous components. One of the things in it, however,
has attracted a number of people that I know, doctor
Ben Black folks who have said closing the Department of Education.
They believe that that may be sensible, right. I don't
think that Project twenty twenty five is doing it for
(25:20):
the reasons that Black folks want something to happen.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
They want to change how children are educated to ensure
that we are less conscious. As you said, that their
own children learn less about our movements and our struggle,
and they would like to deposit into us and our
people and our children whatever it is that they want,
(25:47):
that serves only the purpose of white supremacy.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That's what we know.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
However, there are people who have children right now in
public schools across this country that have and obviously Department
of Education is supposed to be the governing body, and
people do not feel good about how their children are
being educated. They feel their kids are being left behind.
(26:13):
They don't feel that when they approach the Department or
you know, or administration, that there's anything really being done
to deal with the disparities in education for our youth.
And so what would you say to someone who's looking
at that and saying, well, maybe for that particular reason,
Project twenty twenty five is good.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Well, thank you. Project twenty twenty five is the latest
rendition from the Heridge Foundation of the institutionalized white supremacy, institutionalization.
And I think when I listened to you, to me,
you know what came to mind. The Will of Lynch level.
(26:56):
Project twenty five is an expansion of the Will of
Lynch uh uh letter that told the white supremacists how
to keep black people divided, how to keep us at
each other's strokes, how to miseducate us. And so I
think that keep in mind, education is really not controlled
(27:16):
by the federal Education is controlled by these local school
boards by just let the state. While the Department Education
may pass a policy, but who implements the police. You
know a lot of states have gotten funds, and because
you have these reactions and governments, they don't even distribute
to the funds. And a lot of hpc us should
be getting funded. And and that's why what Biden herdsmans
(27:39):
have done so significant by putting billions and dollars back
into hpcus. But think about all the years well we
didn't get that front, you know, and so and then
people try to equate, you know, Harbored with Howard, though
more House with Stamford. But the resources were dramatically under servius,
(28:00):
under source. So I think there's brother and sisters who
are concerned about education. Yeah, that's right, But what is
the solution to the education club. I think education process
is starting the home. We give our children off to
teachers we don't know. We give our children off to
curriculums we have not investigated. We go to PTA meetings.
(28:20):
Who shows up at the PTA meetings? Who shows up
at the school board meetings? Who shows up at the
city councilor who shows up at the county commissioner meetings?
You know? Who just rupts the state legislature. I'm so
glad that one of my mentors the names Golden French
City and State Field Center s CLCE. We got some
man with the state legislature in North Carolina. So while
(28:42):
they were in session, we got transferred truck row of
chickens and we backed it up and turned the chickens
to loose in the state legislature as a protest to
what the state legislature has done. So I learned something
about positive action around education. The reason why the Wilmington
Tyn went to tail cause of education. I'm so proud
(29:02):
of young people will put their lives on the line
to fight for education. Some of you know here in
the a here in the city of Chicago, at the
United Centers, there's a statue of the greatest one of
the greatest basketball players, you know, And I think that
(29:25):
we need to realize that what we've been through in
the education process, Yes we have demands, Yes we have grievances,
but the solution to our agreements is is not Qroject
twenty twenty five. You know, the solution to our agreements
is not accommodating from the Herrigge Foundation, which I'm view
(29:48):
is it me and month of million dollar enterprise that
puts out uh fake information and then passes that out uh.
You know, I think that they there's a debate about scholarship.
There is a debate about what truth is. There's a
debate about where you find it, and then once you
find the truth, how you disseminate their truth amidst this
(30:11):
atmosphere of all the misinformation, this information. You know, look
what happened in two twenty sixteen when Trump and Press
got elected. He shouldn't have won that election, but there
was so many Russian interference that leaving today fake accounts.
I get so many when I go on social media.
I said, this ain't really no black personsbody to be black,
(30:32):
you know, you know? And then I saw it was
a sad commentary. Recently, I saw a brother in Georgia
wearing a T shirt Niggas for Trump, and he was
proud of it. He was proud to call himself a nigga.
He was pulling himself to call himself Trump. This self destruction,
Malcolm talked about, uh, you know self, Patrick, He talked
(30:54):
about not loving oneself, But you get love for oneself
person in your heart home, you get love of self
in your church, in your community. Then you take that
self love to the schools and demand that. Uh. Not
only our students learned the truth about our history, but
my students also need to learn the truth because they
(31:15):
wanted they've been missed miss educate.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Also, y'all, I wanted to ask you about the gang
conference you did because I do a lot of work
with with at risk youth in the community, gang members.
So this black murder campaign that we created. You know,
(31:37):
it's around just trying to gear and just connect our
youth and stop the self hate and stop the violence
and community.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Can you give me? Yeah. In nineteen ninety three, I
was so proud. I just become the young director of
the NWSP and we held the first Gang Something. Actually,
the first Gang Some was planned before I went to
the NAC, planned by the United trich to Christ Commisigation
Justice and other grassroots groups. As you know in early
(32:06):
now as there was a war going on between East
and West gangs. You know, uh, it really has not
not so much to do with territory. They asked us
much to do with how we defined or misdefine who
the enemy was. And we decided we need to put
a stop to this. So we said, well, well we're gonna
have the first Gang Something. We said we're gonna do
(32:26):
it in the middle of the United States. So the
brothers from the East Coast had to go to the
middle of the brothers from the West clubs coming in.
So we chose Kansas City, Kansas City, Missouri, and hundreds
of Bloods, Crypts, gangst the site, all kind of brothers
and sisters.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Well, it was mainly brothers. There were a few sisters
main and brothers. H All the what they call shop
callers in the streets came and Uh, I remember the
end was if he asked me, you're still gonna have
this gang something, I said, absolutely, we're gonna have it,
and uh, we're now on it and estabish the truth,
which was important. But more importantly, we found out that
(33:06):
we don't have to allow other people to define who
we are. And we decided to train change the name
from games to street organizations. We decided to change the name.
You can still be the Blood and Crisps, but whether
you're doing to serve the community, you know, what is
our service to our liberation? What is our service uh
(33:28):
to uh uh to combat and police brutality? You know,
it's one thing for us to get upset when white
folks brutalize us, but we don't get upset when we
googlize each other. There's something wrong with that script and
we wanted to change it. And I'm gonna want to
give you good news that once we got people around
the table, my son, people found out they had common
(33:51):
interest wether than contrary interests, rather than contradictory interests. We
have commonness. You know, when we'll stopped by the police,
the police ain't gonna ask you were your blood or
crypto against the cycle. You know, they don't care what
it is, your blackness, it is your it is what
we've been through is the people that determines our faith.
(34:13):
And so that was very successful. And after the Kansas
City summer, we had regional summers around uh the country. UH.
And then of course you know when the uh Rodney
King thing, have you know?
Speaker 3 (34:31):
UH?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
A year or so later, uh, we went out to
l A. I stayed in Nicholson Gardens, Jordan Downs. I
stayed in the projects and a lot of the end
of us you own doctor staying at the Bannabnu Hotel
downtown and low that said, no, I'm staying with the struggle.
Is if something going down in l A, I'm going
down with some rise up. I'm rising up with it.
(34:55):
And I was so proud of the young people in
South Central because we had the truth. Look, I saw
bloods and clips protecting mamas and daughters. I saw working together. Well,
your color was red, Well, your color was blue. I
remember one of the foundings of the Crypts, who's gonna
give me his a car. I said, no, man, I
(35:19):
can't drive your car because people may think that I'm
identifying with one group of another. I said, I'll walk,
you know, give me, give me, give me some bullod
to walk through these communities. And one of the things
to me, cause you would be proud today. You know
who the shot calls are today in the community running
the projects run in South central you know. And because
(35:42):
a lot of the buller's in the joint, a lot
of in the cemetery. So black women has risen to
the occasion to take over the quality of life and
those what we call projects. Of course, the Chicago, they
they dismantled and destroyed all the projects, made people flee
the city. And that's why the city always looks at
(36:02):
the demographics have changed. Same thing in DC. Chocolate City
used to be a black city is no longer because
you're being pushed out because of gentrification. But you know,
I just think that I want to make sure that
whatever I say today on the program, that I give
some hopes of inspiration.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
I don't want to see this would be your final words,
So please give us some inspiration.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Well, thank you, first of all, looking at you and
my song. I get reinspired because I see the future
in you too. I see the future in the colleagues
that you organize and the colleagues that you mobilize. And
I remember when we start had the anniversaries of the
Men Man March, you start showing up because you're an organizer,
you know, putting stuff together. I was so proud of you.
(36:52):
And I know a lot of people came down on
you because of your association with UH, that grassroots mobilization.
But you know what, it made you stronger. And I'm
gonna say this. I don't want people to think that
I said, go look for some adversity that make you stronger. No,
that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the state
of affairs of our people, we have to either let
(37:15):
those affairs break us or make us stronger. You know
we we yes, we're resilient. Where resilians come from standing up,
resisians that I've come from osmosis, Well, you know we
we have we have to lift ourselves up. Ain't nobody
gonna come lift us up. We have to lift ourselves up.
We have to hold our heads up with dignity, with purpose,
(37:35):
with intergity, and you know, I want to close on
this point. This is the year of the Black woman.
Lord have us. I'm so proud of black women. You know,
they not on took over this DNC convention. Guess whom
taking all the grassroots organizations in our community? Sisters, sister readers,
sister me. I mean, I'm so glad, you know, uh,
you know, if we had to do another Belly movie,
(37:58):
it'll be about these systems soldiers taking over.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I just want to ask question, and I feel the
same way that you feel about our women taking over.
But what do you say to the brothers who are
feeling threatened by that?
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Because it's such a pushback. You know, I celebrate our
black women.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I've been very good and a very good question.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I'm going to vote for Kamala Harris because it's a
black woman. I want to see a win. And there's
so many black men right now who are threatened by that.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
So what do you say?
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Well, I'm close out with this answer. As a black man,
I should not and cannot be intimidated by the rise
of black women, because then black women arise. Guess who
I see riots, I see my mama, raps I see
my grandmother rise, and you know, I see queen arising,
(38:53):
I see the warriors, warriors, sisters. See. That's what I'm saying.
But it's so important that we learn our history. All
the warriors were not brothers. Yes, the brother's the warriors,
but sisters the warriors too, you know. Yes we had kings,
but also had queens, you know. And so I think
that this dynamic sticking now by someone, well, some brothers
(39:17):
intimidated by the rise of black women, and they're using
it as an excuse not to vote for Kamra Harris.
I'm gonna tell brothers, study our history, study of our consciouces.
We should, in fact, we should all be inspired as
black men by the rise of black women. Because when
black women rise, the whole family rights, when black men rise,
(39:39):
the whole family rights. We can't afford this conflict between
black men and black women. What we need to do
is embrace one another, embrace the success of one another.
And if one of us fall, whether they're a sister
or brother, let's pick that brother or that sister up.
Let's march together. Let's fight together. And if we watch
together and together, my son, we will win together.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
And you said it all.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Doctor ben We appreciaiate you, We love you, thank you
for everything that you're young and you continue to do.
And I'm just great gracious to be able to have
you as one of the individuals that I could reach
out to.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Please, thank you, God bless you. Okay, thank you for this.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Thank you. I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
By shout out to doctor ben Chaves. As you know,
we are in the DNC and Tamika had to go
to a panel, so shout out to her for this
amazing discussion. When you listen to brothers like doctor ben Chaevis,
who has so much deep history, and you listen to
what he's accomplished and the errors he would like, it's
(40:43):
a shame that they want to do away with history
like that. They don't want to notify you and educate
you about brothers like doctor ben Chavers.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
When you when you listen to this is what this is.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
A person that they would call a DEI high right,
they would talk about identity policy, But when you listen
to this man, he is probably one of the most
intelligent people in the world. He told you how he
went to an HBCU and then when he transferred to
North Carolina. He was ahead of the game, right, So
they might they try to make you seem like the
(41:15):
education in HBCUs isn't equal, equal or superior to you know,
education in other schools. But that's obviously not the truth
because when you look at our brilliant Black people who've.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Done so much throughout history, who who.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Have acclimated and ascended in every area of life, you
know a lot of them come from HBCUs. So now
they try to weaponize this DEI tag and this identity politics.
I tell people all the times I have no problem
with identity politics. I'm with everybody black. I want to
(41:54):
see black people get equity. I want to see them
get justice. I want to see us get to the
level that we deserve to be at because we've been
denied those things. So me wanting to see positive things
for my people does not mean that I want to
see negative for anybody else. I just want to see
my people reach the level that everybody else's people and
there's nothing wrong with that. And people will try to
(42:16):
make you think it's something wrong with that. As I'm
at this DNC convention, surrounded by black excellence, as I
watched the DNC conference last night and seeing black excellence
and seeing leaders that I know came from grass roots organizations,
people that I know is on the ground with me,
be in positions of power to be able to change
and make laws and policy. As I see a black
(42:37):
woman running for president and ahead in the polls, I am.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
I am motivated.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I am motivated because I feel like things to happen,
and I feel like there's things happening. Anybody who's not
motivated by that as a black person, I don't know
what to tell you.
Speaker 5 (42:56):
I don't know what your motivation is. But I know
I'm motivated.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I know when our kids look into a room like that,
they know what they can be. When you hear someone
like doctor Chavis and understand what he the way he paved.
He talked about how his grandfather lost his life, He
lost his life to teach right so that he can
be where he is today right. And every generation is
(43:20):
responsible for his own liberation. So now it's time for
us to be responsible for our liberations. So I'm gonna
do everything I possibly can to contribute to that. I'm
gonna stand ten toes down. I'm not gonna be distracted
by haters, by bots by whoever you try to send
to determ me. I'm gonna speak truth to power every time,
(43:40):
because when you tell the truth, you don't gotta.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
You can sleep good at night every night when you
tell the truth every night. I'm gonna sleep good at
night because I know I tell the truth, and I
stand firm more truth and everything that I say, I
believe in my heart.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
There's nothing that can sway me from.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
My beliefs unless you could tell me something that is
that conflicts that's right, unless you can tell me a
truth that conflicts my truth, that tells me that the
truth that I have is wrong. I'm staying firm and
I'm ten toes down on that, and with that brings
me to another end. It brings me to the end
(44:18):
of another episode of TMI. Shout out to Tamika Hope
she's having a dope panel. Shout out to doctor ben Chevis.
Shout out to all of the fans. We appreciate y'all.
We're gonna try to give you more content from the DNC.
I'm gonna go out and see who else I can meet,
who else I can interview, so that y'all can get
some of this knowledge, because this black knowledge that they
trying to not put in these books is out here.
(44:39):
And we got historians like doctor Ben Chavis, and there's
so many others out here. So hopefully I'll run into
some and we get some of these interviews and get
you some of this information. But a twill, then I
appreciate you. I'm not gonna always be right, Tamika D.
Mallori is not gonna always be wrong, but we will
both always and I mean always be authentic until next time.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
So that that's so.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Check out the video version of TMO.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Every single Wednesday on Iwoman dot TV.
Speaker 5 (45:15):
That's how we yoned
I'm Tamika D.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Mallory and it Shit Boy my Son in General.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
We are your host of TMI.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, Motivation and Inspiration New Energy.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Hello everybody, this is a new episode of TMI, and
it is the summer. It's August, and so you know,
things have been a little bit different in terms of
what we've been doing with the show during this month.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But we will be.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Back to our regularly scheduled programming come September after our
semi vacation, but it's not really a vacation because we
still have been bringing you all very very important content.
Last week, my son sat down with a group of
brothers many that I respect, all of them that I respect,
(00:52):
and had a really really powerful conversation and I hope
that you all have an opportunity to listen into that.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We're back to my Son the General. You're back. We're
here for.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Another week, and today we're jumping straight into an interview
with a very very important political and civil rights icon.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
We are at the convention.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
We're literally in Chicago at the DNC, and so there's
so much happening. If you could see everything going on
on the other side, of this device, you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Would know how how busy it is.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
But it was very important for us to bring context
because one of the things that I think we both know,
my son, is that the Internet is telling us all
types of things. Misinformation, people uninformed, people don't know history,
people really don't understand the road that has been traveled
(01:50):
to get not only to this moment, but the fights
that have taken place and the struggle that has gone
on in our world and certain me in America, in
Black America for a long time. And so we asked
this icon to join us this morning. And if you
don't know who he is, please do your research. We
(02:13):
are talking with doctor Benjamin Chaevs, not just Ben Chavis
we so used to calling him ben Chaevs. His doctor
Benjamin Schaevs. And he his current job is the President
and CEO of the National Newspaper Publishers Association. That's the
National Newspaper Publishers Association n NPA. But he has you
(02:38):
have you are here with us so many other things
that make you a legend.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That's your current.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Work that you are involved in, which is still a
form of activism, telling our stories to us by us
in Black newspapers all across the country, and I'm shore
you there. You know it expands beyond that, but you
are truly a legend in the civil rights movement. We
just want to welcome you and thank you so much
for joining us this morning.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Well, thank you, Tamika my son. I'm so honored to
be in your presence. You know, Fredick doesn't said it best.
Freedom is a conscious rugg say. Each generation I'm so
proud of has risen to the occasion. And it's not
just a simple matter of passion. At the time, I
wish it was that simple. It was really how to
(03:29):
renew and regenerate our consciousness as a people. Who are
we in the world, Who are we in America? Not
only what our past has been, but how does our
pass inform our presence and our future. That's why I'm
so honored to be here with you at the Democratic
National Convention, this pivotal moment in world history. You know,
(03:51):
you know, soroart the system. I want you to know
all of my family, my mother, my sisters, my grandmother,
all akas so I got a lot of pink and
green in Oxford, North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Oh so your family, your family picked the right sorority
to be a part of. I just want to make
sure everybody knows very serious matter. And Vice President Harrison
also an AKA, so you know we're on the right track.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Absolutely absolutely. But I'm a native of Oxford, North Carolina.
I was born in nineteen forty eight, so I grew
up in the nineteen fifties when everything was racially segregated.
But you know, even though things were segregated, I learned
so much about black history, black knowledge, black scholarship, black excellence,
(04:38):
and you know, I didn't know that much about white
people because I was separated from you know, I knew
about your question. I knew about a popeive, but I
never saw a white student to my sophomore year in college.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Wow, and what college did you go to that to bend?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
The first college was sant of Dustin's College at HBCU
and Ralegh, North Carolina, and transferred to UNC. I was
a chemistry nator And when I tried to get into
UH the North Carolina State, which is the white school
or UNC the West, they told me they were not
accepting black students unless I majored in music. That was
(05:16):
I said, no, I want to major in science and
Young Robert music, but that wasn't my field, and so
I was dissuaded. Which is fine because going to the
HBCU the first couple of years was the best decision
of my life. And uh he gave me a grounder.
So by the time I transferred to University of North
(05:37):
Carolina to finish my chemistry degree, I actually was ahead
of the white student. They used to say, well, where
did you come from? Who taught you this organic chemistry
and physical chemistry? And uh, you know nucle can, I said,
some black teachers at a black school. That's what talk.
Because you know, I think sometimes we underestimate not only
(05:59):
where we get education, but how we get our education.
And so I grew up in the movement. I was
got my na CITP car when I was twelve years old.
I started working for SELC Doctor my little kingdom. When
I was fourteen. Put my age up. We're not supposed
to drive to sixteens. I put my age up. I
had mobility. I was driving. You know, I grew up fast.
(06:23):
James Bonder now became very close friends and he used
to tell me them party some writing that the pen
is powerful them to sow it. So I started writing
for the Black Press when I'm eleven years old in
the sixth grade. And now, as God would have it,
for the last eleven years, I've been to president of
the CEO of Other Black Press of America National Newspaper
(06:44):
public and Association. But as to me, could say it
in the intro, what I do now is informed by
many decades of other struggle. To me, when you have challenges,
that's preparation. I once asked Reginald Lewis, who was the
first Black building. I said, Regel, tell me one word
out of the English language that led to your financial success,
(07:06):
and he said, preparation, preparation. We have to prepare ourselves
to deal with the struggles. We have to prepare ourselves
to learn. And then I started working in the African
liberation movements in Africa. I joined the a n C.
I used to write for the a n C, the
Afghan Acts and youth publication of the SPARE while I
(07:30):
was you know, in college and high school. And then
from nineteen sixty three to nineteen sixty eight, I was
the youth coordinator for Selan Crisis Leadership COMPS until the
day that doctor King was killed in nineteen sixty eighty
and eight. So I've been around the blocks a few times.
But you know what, my son and Tamika, most of
them sister in the community that they don't know about
(07:52):
the nap or the mean Man March. They know me
from the movie Ballet. I was the minister in Bellet.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You know, I just told you that I was about
I was about to bring that up.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Just now.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I go to anyhood and they said, that's the minister
from fail. But that shows you the importance though not
only our all tradition, but our our our image, our
visual tradition, particularly now among millennials and generation disease. Not
only what we hear or even what we see us
(08:24):
a hip hop. Hip hop is what you feel. It's
just not what you see, but what you hear is
what you feel. And so I think our movement has
been successful to the extent to which we can not
only yes, people can feel our impression oh pressure, but
can people feel our liberation and people feel what we
(08:45):
need to do to change our quality of life. And
that's why I have so much respect for you what
you're and Tanika do, because you help people feel the
reality of our struggle for freedom, justice, and required, and
I'm sorry. I'm gonna give you a short answers to
no no.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I just want to say, first of all, it is
an honor to be able to interview you, to be
able to know you, to be in space with you,
to get you know, be able to be tutored by
just listening to you, you know, last night, talking all
the times I've been in your presence, and just hearing
the wisdom that you have and knowing how legendary who
you are. And it's a shame that our youth are
(09:25):
not only no belly, right, is only no belly. But
when you listen to the history you know that you've
you've been through. I just want to know, like what
what were some of the things that you you picked
up working with doctor King?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Well, I picked up working doctor King. Is that you
know the eloquence behind the podium, The eloquence on the
stage of life is informed by what happens off the stage.
It's informed by what happens before you get to the
before you get the mic. You know, before you can
(10:03):
drop the mic. You got a hold of mincy, know
what I'm saying. So as we pick up the mic
of like I'm talking about as we broadcast as back
we're doing now, as we articulate, as we disseminate information.
You know, we're informed by our lived experience, and so
I've been blessed to me and my sign too. I
(10:25):
have had lived experiences with Doctor King, live experiences with
Malcolm X, lived experiences with Minister Farra Con, lived experiences
with doctor Doctor Height, lived experiences with Rose a Pause,
lived experiences, you know, Nelson Mandela winning Mandela. I was
with Cuban troops on the ground, and I was being
(10:48):
a fox over to the troops fighting the South African
potactic DA in the mid nineteen eighties. Because one of
the things I found out that you know, it's one
thing to talk liberation. It's one thing uh engage in armstructure.
It's another thing to engage in putting your life on
the front line. You know. Look, I spent most of
the nineteen seventies in prison because I be very honest.
(11:11):
I was mad. I was mad as hell, and they
killed Doctor King in nineteen sixty eight. But I learned
the channel my anger into something a modus operandi that
could help inspire to make sure his dream was not assassinated.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
How long were you incarcerated, doctor.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Ben six and a half years, but I had a
thirty four year sentence. I spent most of the nineteen
seventies in prison. The women to ten case, that's the
whole I could talk to you about, the whole program
that they just on the Wilmington tent on all I'm
so proud of the young people and women's in All
Carolina who stood up to racial white supremacy in the
(11:46):
school system. And because they stood up eight high school
student leaders, sixteen seventeen, eighteen year olds, myself, I was
only twenty three years old and a white anti poverty
work a woman who was also a hotelmness with ten
of us were sent us to two hundred and eighteen
years in prison, and I had to lunch since thirty four,
(12:08):
thirty four years. And so the analogy is when I
heard that Donald Trump had thirty four convictions, thirty four felons,
I said, with damn, I wonder how much sand he's
gonna get it, you know. And of course we got
that time because we bought white supremacy. But one of
the things I learned from doctor King that is.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
So big, But I really don't I don't want you.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
To brush bast that because that's real, that is so
so significant, not that you were, which you know, we
don't have any judgment on this show around what people
may have done and how they you know, what road
they traveled, but you weren't scamming and killing or any
(12:52):
of that. Your path to being incarcerated was because of
your involvement in the civil rights movement.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yes, absolutely, and I think that to me, I'm always
indebted to my mentors. I had great mentors, Floyd Mchison
who founded the Conservational Quality you know, Marcaine the Kingdom
founded the Solitary's Leadership Conference. I used to drive I
told the car. Yes, I used to drive his father,
(13:24):
Cleave Sellers and Stoker Comack around when they were in Snick.
Because back in the day, you just want any one black,
oder says you in every black if it was black,
I'm in. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That sounds like my parents and my life. How I
grew up in Harlem. We went to the Nation of Islam.
We went to National Action Network, we went to the
Black Church, we went to the street corners, we went
to anything that had to do with black empowerment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
At the slave theater.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
My parents were dead, so it was one thing I
guess I should point out anthropologically and geneologically. I was
really blessed to me could and my son to be
born in a family. The land we live on in Oxton,
North Carolina has been in my family for over two
hundred years. My great great great great grandfather was the
(14:12):
Reverend John Chambers. He was the first brother to Bill
Dain as a presidter in minister. But what significant is
it was a freedom fighter. He was an educator. Now
this was before the Nat. Turner Insurrection. My grandfather was
born in seventeen sixty seven, fought in the Revolutionary War,
came an ordained minister, the educator. But in the early
(14:33):
nine eighteen thirty then Turner Insurrection happened. The state of Virginia,
the state of North Carolina, the state of South Carolina,
the state of Georgia, State of Alabama, and Statelissis passed
the law making it a fella and to teach black
Side to read and write a felon. So my great
great grandfather was an educator, so he set up an
(14:54):
underground school in Grandma County, my home county, Native County.
His county, and so he taught white students by day
and black students secretly by night. But they caught up
with him. My grandfather was beating the death back in
the day there were no cars. They had horse and bugget,
and they beat him to death, hid his body, cut
(15:17):
the head off of his horses, and took the head
of his horse to his wife. And we never found
his grade. They didn't want us to honor him in
a funeral. So I grew up with that kind of
history in my family. I come from a generation, yes,
of educators menisince i'man all they minister myself. But the
(15:38):
underlying common donative common denominated for the males and females
in my family were freedom fighters. So I had no choice, man,
you know. And I was in the fourth grade strip
uh uh. Going back to the first grade, I knew
what racism was and and and I knew that something
that we should not have been tolerated. So I was
(15:59):
one of the impatient. Yeah, I was impatient in my family.
And that's why by the time I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
I thought I was grown. I'm ready to get it on.
But get it on from the wisdom of the past,
and like I said, I had great mentors, and that's
when I try to be now to our brothers and
sisters today as a mentor, not just as a leader,
(16:21):
but as a mentor, because none of us will be
here forever. But while we are blessed to be here,
let's pass something on. Let's pass something wrong, so the
next generation won't have to go through the same things
that we go through.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
You know, well, doctor Ben, before you go, before you
go forward on that because one of the reasons why
we wanted to talk with you today. As we sat
together last night in a very private meeting, you know,
I was thinking a lot about my son and I
have been talking about the history of this whole idea
(17:01):
of the Convention. Right, we know this is not the
first time in Convention history that there has been major
tension around different social issues. And the meeting that we
were at last night, we were specifically dealing with the
issue of black and Palestinian liberation and how our struggles
(17:24):
are intertwined. And it made me think so much about
nineteen sixty eight and the climate for which that particular
convention took place. And I know you have so much
that you can share with us about that, and so
just you know, want to give you, you know, an
opportunity to talk about nineteen sixty eight, who were the operators,
(17:49):
what was give us the team on what was going down.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
I was a young youth delegate from all Calina, my
home state, nineteen sixty eight. And keep in mind, the
nineteen six convention happened in the wake of doctor King's assassination.
They happened in the wake of Robert Kennedy's assessments. And
then you had Richard Nixon running for president with Spiro Agnue,
(18:16):
the former governor of Maryland, who were running on a
law and order campaign, and so lor and O. It
wasn't just with the Republicans the Democrats. Also. Mayor Dale
was a Democratic mayor, but he sik the police on
the protest, brutally beating people down as they tried to
exercise their person in the right. I was inside the
(18:37):
convention center and I was telling somebody last night to me,
what a change time brings. From sixty eight to two
thousand and four, we couldn't even we had to fight
even to get be able to sit down in a
convention in nineteen They didn't want black people to be delicates.
They didn't want black people to be pages. They didn't
(18:59):
want black people to have a media station. They don't
want They were trying to exclude black folks in nineteen sixty.
In fact, Julian Bob finding Lou Hayman had to go
to court just to get the right to sit down
in the convention. So now we run in the convention.
Black women are running the convention. You know what I'm saying.
And a lot of times to me, I'm glad you
(19:21):
asked that question, because we live in the present and
sometimes the president evil overwhelms us or underwhelms us. Well,
we we think that what's happening today is suspended in
today's reality. But this is a long evolutionary struggle, you know,
even in the DNC. And let me just point something out, Uh,
(19:44):
the Democrats were the original white supremacists. And my home
state of North Carolina, the Democrats were the original white
supremacists who attacked women to North Carolina. Because blacks have
formed a fusion with the Republicans, look out the script
this flip. The Republican Party was once a part of Lincoln.
Now it's the party of the white supremacists. Now it's
(20:07):
the party of of of far white uh racism and
the semitism you just named.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Where was the switch again, sir? Because there's always.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Late late eighteen hundreds, okay, late.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Always this thing that the Republicans is actually the party
for black people, and this and that that you don't.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Know, y'all, No, no history. You got to know that history.
The script was flip flipped, you know. Uh. Jessic Hams
used to be a Democrat. He became a Republican with
the Desocrats. And UH. These are the people who fought
when Sturgood Marshingtom got the Brown Decision in nineteen such four,
UH saying that UH surrogate's schools was unconstitutional. You had
(20:50):
all these people who wanted to assassinate Tilgod Marshall, you know,
because of that litigation, because they didn't want black and
white kids toy ever go to school together. Because we
may find out something, and that is there's no such
thing as white superiority. There's no such thing in UH.
While it is an ideology of white supremacy, it's a
(21:13):
fake ideology. It has no substance, It has no answer
bout other than the brutal translantic slavery that they engage us.
And I want to plug a book that's coming out
in September to make I gotta get through my son,
uh Sayty Brown, one of our writers, and the Nytry
we just published, you know, it's coming out in September.
(21:36):
And the Translanta slave trade, because Translanta slatrade didn't just
started in sixteen nineteen, It started in fifteen hundreds. The
translation staty was going on one hundred years before they
brought the first slave to the Virginia shore. And this brutality,
this inhumanity, uh you know. So to me, going back
(21:57):
to Tamika's question, I'm honored just to witness what's going
on here, But it also means we have the responsibility
that what are those struggles, what are those alloness? We
should have? Well, what can we learn? What do we
know about the Middle East? What do we know about
nineteen forty eight? What do we know about the United Nations?
(22:18):
What do we know about World War two? My father
was a better than of World War One? Do we
know the sacrifice that Black troops made going to the
front line in France fighting for democracy and then they
get wounded and they can't even come back home on
the ship. They came back home on the ship the
German prisons. German prisons was treated better than black soldiers
(22:40):
who fought the Germans. I mean, all this stuff, and
so I used to ask my fatsid dad, what's going on?
He said, sons, one day you understand and appreciate the
sacrifices that we made. We know that racism, but we
fought for America because hopefully one day America the chine
and yes, America is changing, but still ain't changing fast enough,
(23:02):
you know, And that's our role. Each generation has to
push that envelope, push those questions and push that reelly.
But at the same time, I am concerned about our
state of consciousness as a people. You know, I was
involved in the Black Power when Look when I was
a kid. If you call somebody black, that was a
cuss work, people will cut you out. They think we
(23:25):
were so ashamed of our blackness, would sure a claim
of our color, were so ashamed of I have was
sure a shamed of our nose, our lips because let
me just chaw with you. When I was in the
first grade, even though there was a black elementary school
because of segregation, the white school system told us what
books we had to read. So I learned how to
read out of a book called Sambo. And Sambo was
(23:51):
a of a disfigured little African brother who only ate
pancakes with dripping served you all jip down there, you know.
It was like they made him like somebody. Well, I
don't want to be like sample, but but but but
planting it in the seats of black students in the
(24:12):
first place. So well, I don't want to be black,
I want to be white. That's why I when the
bullets study with black dogs and white dogs, A lot
of black children true white dogs, because that's how they've
been miseducated. You know, college wasn't headed right, the miseducation
of the negro you know. And so one of the
(24:33):
fights we have in twenty twenty four, it's about education,
it's about uh, it's about curriculum, it's about consciousness.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I'm glad you went there.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I'm glad you a part of Project twenty twenty five,
which is the conservative Republican platform that we know Donald
Trump endorses.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
While he says he does not. We know why he's
denying it.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
But Project twenty twenty five we know, had some very
very dangerous components. One of the things in it, however,
has attracted a number of people that I know, doctor
Ben Black folks who have said closing the Department of Education.
They believe that that may be sensible, right. I don't
think that Project twenty twenty five is doing it for
(25:20):
the reasons that Black folks want something to happen.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
They want to change how children are educated to ensure
that we are less conscious. As you said, that their
own children learn less about our movements and our struggle,
and they would like to deposit into us and our
people and our children whatever it is that they want,
(25:47):
that serves only the purpose of white supremacy.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That's what we know.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
However, there are people who have children right now in
public schools across this country that have and obviously Department
of Education is supposed to be the governing body, and
people do not feel good about how their children are
being educated. They feel their kids are being left behind.
(26:13):
They don't feel that when they approach the Department or
you know, or administration, that there's anything really being done
to deal with the disparities in education for our youth.
And so what would you say to someone who's looking
at that and saying, well, maybe for that particular reason,
Project twenty twenty five is good.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Well, thank you. Project twenty twenty five is the latest
rendition from the Heridge Foundation of the institutionalized white supremacy, institutionalization.
And I think when I listened to you, to me,
you know what came to mind. The Will of Lynch level.
(26:56):
Project twenty five is an expansion of the Will of
Lynch uh uh letter that told the white supremacists how
to keep black people divided, how to keep us at
each other's strokes, how to miseducate us. And so I
think that keep in mind, education is really not controlled
(27:16):
by the federal Education is controlled by these local school
boards by just let the state. While the Department Education
may pass a policy, but who implements the police. You
know a lot of states have gotten funds, and because
you have these reactions and governments, they don't even distribute
to the funds. And a lot of hpc us should
be getting funded. And and that's why what Biden herdsmans
(27:39):
have done so significant by putting billions and dollars back
into hpcus. But think about all the years well we
didn't get that front, you know, and so and then
people try to equate, you know, Harbored with Howard, though
more House with Stamford. But the resources were dramatically under servius,
(28:00):
under source. So I think there's brother and sisters who
are concerned about education. Yeah, that's right, But what is
the solution to the education club. I think education process
is starting the home. We give our children off to
teachers we don't know. We give our children off to
curriculums we have not investigated. We go to PTA meetings.
(28:20):
Who shows up at the PTA meetings? Who shows up
at the school board meetings? Who shows up at the
city councilor who shows up at the county commissioner meetings?
You know? Who just rupts the state legislature. I'm so
glad that one of my mentors the names Golden French
City and State Field Center s CLCE. We got some
man with the state legislature in North Carolina. So while
(28:42):
they were in session, we got transferred truck row of
chickens and we backed it up and turned the chickens
to loose in the state legislature as a protest to
what the state legislature has done. So I learned something
about positive action around education. The reason why the Wilmington
Tyn went to tail cause of education. I'm so proud
(29:02):
of young people will put their lives on the line
to fight for education. Some of you know here in
the a here in the city of Chicago, at the
United Centers, there's a statue of the greatest one of
the greatest basketball players, you know, And I think that
(29:25):
we need to realize that what we've been through in
the education process, Yes we have demands, Yes we have grievances,
but the solution to our agreements is is not Qroject
twenty twenty five. You know, the solution to our agreements
is not accommodating from the Herrigge Foundation, which I'm view
(29:48):
is it me and month of million dollar enterprise that
puts out uh fake information and then passes that out uh.
You know, I think that they there's a debate about scholarship.
There is a debate about what truth is. There's a
debate about where you find it, and then once you
find the truth, how you disseminate their truth amidst this
(30:11):
atmosphere of all the misinformation, this information. You know, look
what happened in two twenty sixteen when Trump and Press
got elected. He shouldn't have won that election, but there
was so many Russian interference that leaving today fake accounts.
I get so many when I go on social media.
I said, this ain't really no black personsbody to be black,
(30:32):
you know, you know? And then I saw it was
a sad commentary. Recently, I saw a brother in Georgia
wearing a T shirt Niggas for Trump, and he was
proud of it. He was proud to call himself a nigga.
He was pulling himself to call himself Trump. This self destruction,
Malcolm talked about, uh, you know self, Patrick, He talked
(30:54):
about not loving oneself, But you get love for oneself
person in your heart home, you get love of self
in your church, in your community. Then you take that
self love to the schools and demand that. Uh. Not
only our students learned the truth about our history, but
my students also need to learn the truth because they
(31:15):
wanted they've been missed miss educate.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Also, y'all, I wanted to ask you about the gang
conference you did because I do a lot of work
with with at risk youth in the community, gang members.
So this black murder campaign that we created. You know,
(31:37):
it's around just trying to gear and just connect our
youth and stop the self hate and stop the violence
and community.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Can you give me? Yeah. In nineteen ninety three, I
was so proud. I just become the young director of
the NWSP and we held the first Gang Something. Actually,
the first Gang Some was planned before I went to
the NAC, planned by the United trich to Christ Commisigation
Justice and other grassroots groups. As you know in early
(32:06):
now as there was a war going on between East
and West gangs. You know, uh, it really has not
not so much to do with territory. They asked us
much to do with how we defined or misdefine who
the enemy was. And we decided we need to put
a stop to this. So we said, well, well we're gonna
have the first Gang Something. We said we're gonna do
(32:26):
it in the middle of the United States. So the
brothers from the East Coast had to go to the
middle of the brothers from the West clubs coming in.
So we chose Kansas City, Kansas City, Missouri, and hundreds
of Bloods, Crypts, gangst the site, all kind of brothers
and sisters.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Well, it was mainly brothers. There were a few sisters
main and brothers. H All the what they call shop
callers in the streets came and Uh, I remember the
end was if he asked me, you're still gonna have
this gang something, I said, absolutely, we're gonna have it,
and uh, we're now on it and estabish the truth,
which was important. But more importantly, we found out that
(33:06):
we don't have to allow other people to define who
we are. And we decided to train change the name
from games to street organizations. We decided to change the name.
You can still be the Blood and Crisps, but whether
you're doing to serve the community, you know, what is
our service to our liberation? What is our service uh
(33:28):
to uh uh to combat and police brutality? You know,
it's one thing for us to get upset when white
folks brutalize us, but we don't get upset when we
googlize each other. There's something wrong with that script and
we wanted to change it. And I'm gonna want to
give you good news that once we got people around
the table, my son, people found out they had common
(33:51):
interest wether than contrary interests, rather than contradictory interests. We
have commonness. You know, when we'll stopped by the police,
the police ain't gonna ask you were your blood or
crypto against the cycle. You know, they don't care what
it is, your blackness, it is your it is what
we've been through is the people that determines our faith.
(34:13):
And so that was very successful. And after the Kansas
City summer, we had regional summers around uh the country. UH.
And then of course you know when the uh Rodney
King thing, have you know?
Speaker 3 (34:31):
UH?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
A year or so later, uh, we went out to
l A. I stayed in Nicholson Gardens, Jordan Downs. I
stayed in the projects and a lot of the end
of us you own doctor staying at the Bannabnu Hotel
downtown and low that said, no, I'm staying with the struggle.
Is if something going down in l A, I'm going
down with some rise up. I'm rising up with it.
(34:55):
And I was so proud of the young people in
South Central because we had the truth. Look, I saw
bloods and clips protecting mamas and daughters. I saw working together. Well,
your color was red, Well, your color was blue. I
remember one of the foundings of the Crypts, who's gonna
give me his a car. I said, no, man, I
(35:19):
can't drive your car because people may think that I'm
identifying with one group of another. I said, I'll walk,
you know, give me, give me, give me some bullod
to walk through these communities. And one of the things
to me, cause you would be proud today. You know
who the shot calls are today in the community running
the projects run in South central you know. And because
(35:42):
a lot of the buller's in the joint, a lot
of in the cemetery. So black women has risen to
the occasion to take over the quality of life and
those what we call projects. Of course, the Chicago, they
they dismantled and destroyed all the projects, made people flee
the city. And that's why the city always looks at
(36:02):
the demographics have changed. Same thing in DC. Chocolate City
used to be a black city is no longer because
you're being pushed out because of gentrification. But you know,
I just think that I want to make sure that
whatever I say today on the program, that I give
some hopes of inspiration.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
I don't want to see this would be your final words,
So please give us some inspiration.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Well, thank you, first of all, looking at you and
my song. I get reinspired because I see the future
in you too. I see the future in the colleagues
that you organize and the colleagues that you mobilize. And
I remember when we start had the anniversaries of the
Men Man March, you start showing up because you're an organizer,
you know, putting stuff together. I was so proud of you.
(36:52):
And I know a lot of people came down on
you because of your association with UH, that grassroots mobilization.
But you know what, it made you stronger. And I'm
gonna say this. I don't want people to think that
I said, go look for some adversity that make you stronger. No,
that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the state
of affairs of our people, we have to either let
(37:15):
those affairs break us or make us stronger. You know
we we yes, we're resilient. Where resilians come from standing up,
resisians that I've come from osmosis, Well, you know we
we have we have to lift ourselves up. Ain't nobody
gonna come lift us up. We have to lift ourselves up.
We have to hold our heads up with dignity, with purpose,
(37:35):
with intergity, and you know, I want to close on
this point. This is the year of the Black woman.
Lord have us. I'm so proud of black women. You know,
they not on took over this DNC convention. Guess whom
taking all the grassroots organizations in our community? Sisters, sister readers,
sister me. I mean, I'm so glad, you know, uh,
you know, if we had to do another Belly movie,
(37:58):
it'll be about these systems soldiers taking over.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I just want to ask question, and I feel the
same way that you feel about our women taking over.
But what do you say to the brothers who are
feeling threatened by that?
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Because it's such a pushback. You know, I celebrate our
black women.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I've been very good and a very good question.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I'm going to vote for Kamala Harris because it's a
black woman. I want to see a win. And there's
so many black men right now who are threatened by that.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
So what do you say?
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Well, I'm close out with this answer. As a black man,
I should not and cannot be intimidated by the rise
of black women, because then black women arise. Guess who
I see riots, I see my mama, raps I see
my grandmother rise, and you know, I see queen arising,
(38:53):
I see the warriors, warriors, sisters. See. That's what I'm saying.
But it's so important that we learn our history. All
the warriors were not brothers. Yes, the brother's the warriors,
but sisters the warriors too, you know. Yes we had kings,
but also had queens, you know. And so I think
that this dynamic sticking now by someone, well, some brothers
(39:17):
intimidated by the rise of black women, and they're using
it as an excuse not to vote for Kamra Harris.
I'm gonna tell brothers, study our history, study of our consciouces.
We should, in fact, we should all be inspired as
black men by the rise of black women. Because when
black women rise, the whole family rights, when black men rise,
(39:39):
the whole family rights. We can't afford this conflict between
black men and black women. What we need to do
is embrace one another, embrace the success of one another.
And if one of us fall, whether they're a sister
or brother, let's pick that brother or that sister up.
Let's march together. Let's fight together. And if we watch
together and together, my son, we will win together.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
And you said it all.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Doctor ben We appreciaiate you, We love you, thank you
for everything that you're young and you continue to do.
And I'm just great gracious to be able to have
you as one of the individuals that I could reach
out to.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Please, thank you, God bless you. Okay, thank you for this.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Thank you. I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
By shout out to doctor ben Chaves. As you know,
we are in the DNC and Tamika had to go
to a panel, so shout out to her for this
amazing discussion. When you listen to brothers like doctor ben Chaevis,
who has so much deep history, and you listen to
what he's accomplished and the errors he would like, it's
(40:43):
a shame that they want to do away with history
like that. They don't want to notify you and educate
you about brothers like doctor ben Chavers.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
When you when you listen to this is what this is.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
A person that they would call a DEI high right,
they would talk about identity policy, But when you listen
to this man, he is probably one of the most
intelligent people in the world. He told you how he
went to an HBCU and then when he transferred to
North Carolina. He was ahead of the game, right, So
they might they try to make you seem like the
(41:15):
education in HBCUs isn't equal, equal or superior to you know,
education in other schools. But that's obviously not the truth
because when you look at our brilliant Black people who've.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Done so much throughout history, who who.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Have acclimated and ascended in every area of life, you
know a lot of them come from HBCUs. So now
they try to weaponize this DEI tag and this identity politics.
I tell people all the times I have no problem
with identity politics. I'm with everybody black. I want to
(41:54):
see black people get equity. I want to see them
get justice. I want to see us get to the
level that we deserve to be at because we've been
denied those things. So me wanting to see positive things
for my people does not mean that I want to
see negative for anybody else. I just want to see
my people reach the level that everybody else's people and
there's nothing wrong with that. And people will try to
(42:16):
make you think it's something wrong with that. As I'm
at this DNC convention, surrounded by black excellence, as I
watched the DNC conference last night and seeing black excellence
and seeing leaders that I know came from grass roots organizations,
people that I know is on the ground with me,
be in positions of power to be able to change
and make laws and policy. As I see a black
(42:37):
woman running for president and ahead in the polls, I am.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
I am motivated.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I am motivated because I feel like things to happen,
and I feel like there's things happening. Anybody who's not
motivated by that as a black person, I don't know
what to tell you.
Speaker 5 (42:56):
I don't know what your motivation is. But I know
I'm motivated.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I know when our kids look into a room like that,
they know what they can be. When you hear someone
like doctor Chavis and understand what he the way he paved.
He talked about how his grandfather lost his life, He
lost his life to teach right so that he can
be where he is today right. And every generation is
(43:20):
responsible for his own liberation. So now it's time for
us to be responsible for our liberations. So I'm gonna
do everything I possibly can to contribute to that. I'm
gonna stand ten toes down. I'm not gonna be distracted
by haters, by bots by whoever you try to send
to determ me. I'm gonna speak truth to power every time,
(43:40):
because when you tell the truth, you don't gotta.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
You can sleep good at night every night when you
tell the truth every night. I'm gonna sleep good at
night because I know I tell the truth, and I
stand firm more truth and everything that I say, I
believe in my heart.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
There's nothing that can sway me from.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
My beliefs unless you could tell me something that is
that conflicts that's right, unless you can tell me a
truth that conflicts my truth, that tells me that the
truth that I have is wrong. I'm staying firm and
I'm ten toes down on that, and with that brings
me to another end. It brings me to the end
(44:18):
of another episode of TMI. Shout out to Tamika Hope
she's having a dope panel. Shout out to doctor ben Chevis.
Shout out to all of the fans. We appreciate y'all.
We're gonna try to give you more content from the DNC.
I'm gonna go out and see who else I can meet,
who else I can interview, so that y'all can get
some of this knowledge, because this black knowledge that they
trying to not put in these books is out here.
(44:39):
And we got historians like doctor Ben Chavis, and there's
so many others out here. So hopefully I'll run into
some and we get some of these interviews and get
you some of this information. But a twill, then I
appreciate you. I'm not gonna always be right, Tamika D.
Mallori is not gonna always be wrong, but we will
both always and I mean always be authentic until next time.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
So that that's so.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Check out the video version of TMO.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Every single Wednesday on Iwoman dot TV.
Speaker 5 (45:15):
That's how we yoned
Hosts And Creators
Mysonne
Tamika Mallory
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