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March 20, 2024 82 mins

In this episode, Tamika and Mysonne discuss various topics, including finding balance between work and personal life, issues with bouncers and security personnel, and  the journey of building a brand. Moreover, they were joined by the founder of the hair brand “ Curls” Mahisha Dellinger, who discusses her journey as a black entrepreneur and shares insights into marketing strategies and the challenges faced by black brands. She emphasizes the importance of investing in sampling and creating a positive consumer experience.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Yeah, Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up. Family. It's your girl to mek A D.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
Mallard and your boy, my son and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
And we are your host of t M I.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Tamika and my song's information, truth, motivation and inspiration.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm feeling you get about like a lot of people
like t M I.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
What's that?

Speaker 4 (00:28):
I like?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Like, I'm not already had anyone say I don't think well,
actually moste mallories like I like street politicians.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I don't understand why I'm what you are, but you know,
sometimes you gotta grow. We always gonna street polists, always always.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
But I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it.
What's up family out there? Thanks for tuning in for
yet another week of t M I.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
The Week of tm You know, it's been a long week.
It's been along a couple of weeks. A lot of
things been going on. So I'm really just back into
my whole workout thing. You know, probably working out like
three or four days a week, and my body is
just really sore, like really really sore. But I've been
working out with my little brother. I've been taking him
to the gym and you know, a lot of these

young boys think that they can really do it until
they actually get in the gym. You know what I'm saying.
You get him in the gym and he's talking to yeah, come,
we're gonna go work out. And after about we jogged
for about ten fifteen minutes and he's like, yeah, I
got this. Next, you know, we do two workouts. He's
about to pass out in the gym. He drinking water
every five seconds. He's sitting out. We've been all hard

and it's crazy just to watch. And I see this
happen all the times with younger individuals. They just think
because you're older, that they got more energy than you.
And I'll be trying to tell you, I can't just
come to that gym playing around. You know, it's a
serious thing in that gym. So, you know, that's been
the thing I've been doing, like really getting back into.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Health because health as well.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
You know, I used to really you know, I used
to be a personal train I used to do all
those things. In probably the last couple of months, I've
got that love for working out again.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
So young boys coming to gym with me, you may
be ready to work out.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
I love for work it out.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
It's a little it's extreme. Love is a love thing.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I do it. I like it, but I don't know
about loving it. I don't know about loving it. But
what I am doing that you know, I've really been
focusing on for the last several months, is really trying
to find a balance between craziness at work and your
own personal peace of mind. That has been that, that's

like the next thing, get the workout together. I got
the scheduling around that together. But now it's more so
like people like, how do you balance to two? Because
every I used to be and I used to live
by the idea that there is no balance. And I
still know that the idea of balance sounds really good,
but it's not necessar severally realistic because at times, either

your family life, your personal life, your work life, all
of those things require a little bit more from everybody.
So balance is real difficult, but you have to do.
You do have to have a balance over your peace
of mind, and that through therapy, through going through so
many trials and tribulations, I began to understand that the

balance of peace of mind is not the same thing
like balancing work and play or work home life. I'm
talking about being able to control how much you sit
and obsess over getting things done, responding to everybody, and
how you could just be okay with the fact that
maybe this person is going to be upset. I may

not have I may not have shown up for all
the things the way that people wanted me to, But
when it got to the point that I felt it
was too much, I pulled away. And that for me,
is a very difficult task. It's a very difficult task,

but it's something that I realized I have to work on.
And I wouldn't say it comes with the privilege since
we're talking about age. It comes with the privilege of age,
because when you're younger and you're trying to find your
way in the world, you just kind of like go
not just young in age, also young in time in
a space. So you're the new hairstylist, you the new whatever.

You going hard trying to get yourself known. Once you
come to a place where you have already established a brand,
you do have to find a way to back yourself
up a little bit to and also to have ability
to get a vision for what life looks like going forward.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
I think for me, you know, my experience in my
life experiences being incarcerated and losing out on a lot
of things, a lot of different opportunities. I think my
mind stay, it's hard for me to do that, right
because when you when you're twenty years old and you're

on the custom of being the next big, biggest hip
hop artist, and then it's taken from you and you
spend seven years in prison, right, you never get that back.
You don't even know what it looks like. And then
you become content with that reality. You just say, hey,
that's what happened. That was God's plan. But you don't
ever want to lose any other opportunities, So you don't

want to stop doing anything or stop working. Wow, you're
creating what you're creating, so you don't even know what
it's like to be able to sell O care. I'm
gonna step back from some because there's no guarantee. I
realized in my life that there's no guarantee. There's no
guarantee to anything and certain there I don't think I'm

in a position where I've created generation of well like,
if I don't work for a few weeks, if I
don't do things or create things, there's a strong possibility
that I won't be able to survive in real time.
And I think a lot of us that come from
you know where I come from. That's how that's the
way that we operate. So it's hard. So I hear

people say and I see people do it all the time,
and to me, it's kind of like a luxury because
it's a luxury that I would love to be able
to say, you know what, let me just deal with
my mentor I don't even know what that looks like,
you know what I'm saying. Hard, it's a real hard
thing to do because I want to be able to
just but every day I'll be like, Okay, I gotta
figure this out, and I gotta move in this and

I gotta work, and I gotta figure these things out.
So you know, it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, I think that it's also a tool of white
supremacy to make us believe that we have to be
on a hamster will all the time, because I think
management of our time and management of our money better,
because we as American and probably everybody over in the world,

there's so much waste if we really just look at
like the difference between how often we cook, which by
the way, groceries is ridiculous. But just saying how often
we cook versus how often we eat out, you know,
whether or not. My dad will say in a minute,
y'all need to learn how to do your own hair.

Like why y'all always got to pay people to do
your hair? Whatnot? Right, So I know we're not gonna
do those things. It's not gonna happen. It's our guilty
pleasures and whatever else. But if we just look at
how many times we drink during a week or two,
how much gas we spend without just walking to a

place or whatever. If you if you add it up,
you will find that there are resources there for us
to be a little bit more like, Okay, I don't
have to kill myself, but we want to live with
the luxuries of LFE. It's actually the opposite, and my
opinion of what you're saying. The luxury is that we

want to have these things and go these places because
I'm not going to miss one thing that somebody invites
me to that I want to go to. So I
have a schedule from April all the way until July. People,
my cousins, this thing, somebody having this that I want
to go. So what am I going to do in
order for me to get there? I gotta spend money,

I gotta be able to pay my credit card. I
gotta be able to do all these things. So it
does make me hustle. But if I took if I
just said, you know what, I'm just gonna sit at home,
make sure I do the bare minimum and then I
can focus on my mental health and whatever, I could
actually probably do that.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
But the idea is, but I hear what you're saying,
and I mean cut you off. What is that actually
you doing what you want to do?

Speaker 5 (08:49):

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Because if you're saying that I'm not going to miss
none of these events, right, because that means.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
That you want to go to the events.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
But it's a sacrifice, you sacrificing what for what you
second for your men's comfort, for your mental health?

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well yeah, because because because because mental health is a
different type of thing. I'm saying that, yes, your comfort
is a part of the enjoyment that helps you find peace.
But if you are working yourself literally to death where
you are not able to calm down and relax for

a minute and have days where you just lay still
or you just sit quietly and you're not on the
time clock. If I gotta answer the phone, do the thing,
get it up. That is a problem. It's an issue,
and it's a lot of us. It's not just the
black thing, it's not just whatever. The reason why I
say it's a toulo white supremacy is because we have
been taught that being an overachiever is what makes us

a great example of you know whatever, and that that
mindset is actually not helpful. It's also a tool of
white white supremacy to make us believe that we have
to be perfect, right, perfection, all of these things, they
have been tools that make you feel like you're a
failure when you're actually not. You're not a failure because
you're not you. It's okay to be missing sometimes from

the conversation. You don't have to be at the front
every time. It's something that we're driven by because we
believe that if we're not, then we're going to be
out of what you call it, out of sight, out
of mind.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's also it's also what we see, right, It's what
we celebrate. It's who we celebrate, right, we don't the
people that we celebrate and we call successful in our
culture are the people who are always present, right or
when they present, or that when they are present, it's.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Damn But that's the thing, and that that what you
just said is exactly the point, and thank you for
bringing it home. It's that sometimes the more you do,
the less quality that is existing because you don't have
time to prepare. Right, you're moving from one place to that.
I've been in that where I'm moving from this place

to that place. I feel tired. I'm not myself. I
walk in the room, my speech is not finished. I
don't feel as confident. But when I have time to
focus on the big things. And that's why I shout
out to Marvette Brittle, publicists and brand manager forever for
a whole bunch of people, from Ria, Carrey, the you

name it. She's worked with the greats. She will tell
you that it's important, like you can't take everything that
comes your way. And a lot of times we find
ourselves we want the fifteen hundred dollars, the three thousand,
the five thousand, to twenty thousand and twenty five thousand,
and instead we should really be again sacrificing. It's saying
no to some things, not the things that's important to you.

Some people don't got money to pay you a lot,
But the things that are important to you you have
to do. But the things that are not you kind
of say no sometimes so that you could focus on
being your best self when you do get the ten
thousand to five thousand, two twenty five thousand dollars speaking engagement,
because if you're running yourself ragging, you're not showing up

as your best self. So I'm just trying to figure
out what that looks like. Because what we do with
this work that is constantly trauma and going and going.
It's not easy to tell some a family or not
to be present in places. But I am finding a
way to be okay with not being there and not
sitting at home beating myself to death that oh my god,

I should have gone, I should have done it, I
should have wanted it, not because I would make myself
feel bad. So anyway, it's not something I have an
answer to. But my therapist says that it is very
necessary because if you don't do it, you find yourself
spiraling backwards. And then his other point has been that
when you finally get to a place where you can't

where you're not in demand, or you're not whatever. You
don't even know what to do with yourself at that
point because you're so used to being out. So you
have to train yourself that it's okay that sometimes y'all
don't hear from me. You know, there are many viral
videos out there that shows bouncers, club, bouncers, security body

slamming people doing whatever. I've had my own, you know,
I have literally gotten into almost physical altercations with a
number of bouncers, and I've had experiences that other people
that I know or places that I've been, they have
been significant, significant issues. And of course, as I said,

there are viral videos. I think it was a video
just in April with some women was into it with
the bouncer or the bouncer whatever, whatever, and the bouncers
started slamming them, went out into the parking lot to
continue to deal with whatever. Once they get you out
the venue, it should be done from their perspective, and
now you're in the street, So then at that point

there should be no reason for a bouncer to even
be behind you or with you at your car, or
down in the parking lot or any of that. This
last week, a young person that I know in Atlanta
was beaten and followed by the way. Even the uber

driver says, no, no, I was already outside. I watched it.
It didn't just happen right outside the door. Three bounces
followed this young man into the parking lot, which was
disconnected from the bar where he was, and they commenced
to beating him up and whatever, and it all. I
understand that when you are in an environment where people
are intoxicated, if you don't maintain a certain level of

discipline and control over a space, it could get out
of hand. It's unsafe for everybody, including you as security
as well as other patrons. Things could get completely out
of hand. And people do drink a lot, so when
it go out, you're not as and I know it's
happened to me, you're not as aware. Your self awareness

certainly tampered or whatever you call it. It's it's not
at the level that it should be when you have
been drinking alcohol, right, and then some people are doing
other drugs, so it's a lot of things that goes
on right. However, there is an issue with the emotional

intelligence and the level of de escalation skills that bouncers
have across the country, and it is a problem. They
start more ship than they actually do to diffuse and
keep things under in control. Now there are some places
where there are bouncers and and and very very much.

I would say that one of the groups that a
group that has let me, a group that has produced
many of the bounces that we see out here, people
who are supposed to be security or whatever. One of

the groups that has produced lots of them is the FOI,
which is the food of this mom.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
They have.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
And you can tell when you are being approached by
someone that is FOI who is working at a club.
You can tell the way in which they speak to you.

Speaker 3 (16:25):

Speaker 2 (16:26):
You know, I need you to calm down. You guys
have to move out the way. They're not to say
that they're pushovers, because we all know they're firmed, but
it's a certain way that they deal with you, and
you can tell. But these other people that somehow are
beget I don't know, and I need to do Oh
by the way, I'm going to do the research because
I'm going to be the person that is going to

fight for whether it be legislative changes or for there
to be some way that people can hold no. I
want to see venues held responsible for incidents with their
bounces in a stronger way. It's not as much as
it should be. There are a lot of these owners

that either close the door, don't answer the phone calls,
and their security people are treating people with a level
of disrespect that is not okay. It's not okay.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
It's a liability, so they should be.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
They should be liable if you're doing something where you're
violating people's rights, and.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
There should be a way to determine when people's rights
are being violated. I believe that we may even be
at the point where at a lot of these popular
nightclubs or whatever, some of these bounces need to have
body cameras on them because the way, and by the way,
the terminology bouncer, I don't know where it came from,

because this is all the research that I'm seriously gonna do.
My friend's son, he is a young boy who is
not problematic, and what happened to him is dead wrong,
and by all accounts of the people around, the bouncer
was an antagonist. He was basically picking on this young kid.
And I have seen it happen so many times and

and and the way in which you you know people,
especially when you know people have been drinking, you have
to actually get your tone and the way in which
you're approaching them, you know, in a manner that allows
them to feel respected while being able to move them.
I don't know who's training them.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
I don't know where they're where there, what accreditation they
have or.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
But it must it must change.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Then it is different criterias, right, So they got you
got the guys are just big, so they just say, hey,
you can be the security, have any criteria.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Then you got off duty police officers who don't who.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Have the same mindset as on duty ones that we
already have.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
So you're dealing with You're dealing with those things right there.
And they think they especially when they're in that situe,
they just think they're all way above the law. They
still got the street element because now on they're outside,
they ain't got they they're not tied to the uniform
as much, but they still know that they got their badge.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
So they dealing with you from that aspect.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
And then like you said, people are intoxicated and nobody
wants to be told to sit on the line or
way to move so you got to understand that. And
there's no real training. I'm telling you. I know, I
know people who've been bouncers that's never done anything. They
just the bouncer at the club.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
That's not that That to me is unhealthy. It doesn't work,
and there has to be some way that that is changed.
And I am going to investigate and be reporting on
what it looks like. And I know there are a
lot of people that's like, oh, there you go, like
you now all of a sudden, you know, here you
come into an environment when these people, some of them

just coming home, some of them are coming from different situations,
can't get this job, need extra pay, And I think
we should do all of that. I think that you
know that as a space that especially a lot of
men are in where they could get income. I support
it one hundred percent. But it does not mean that
people need to be abused or that you're going to
you should be able to bring that nastiness that too

many of these people have and the way in which
they treat people. There has to be and I think
that yes, absolutely the actual security person needs to help
be held accountable. But the way to actually address it
is to make the owners of these properties, the owners
of these clubs, make them responsible when these issues come up,

and I and going forward, I'm going to make myself
available to be more involved in cases where people feel
they have been harmed, discriminated against, or whatever, because that's
a call that in the past, if I get a
call about, you know, a bouncer beat me up or
something happened, it's not necessarily something that I would get

to involve them because I don't have the capacity. But
I am definitely going to make myself available going forward
because I hear about it too often and when people
are like, well the patron, they was drunk the while
they was doing a list. That is what happens when
you work somewhere. And it's the same thing that we
say about police officers. If the police officer and the

civilian are acting the same way and carrying on the
same way and have the same attitude, and the civilian
or the police officers responding to the civilian without the professionalism,
then what the hell do we need the police officer?
Officer for the point of having the police officers. You've

been to the training, you have a weapon, you have
a responsibility. So when you pull over a civilian who
is late to work or not in the mood, or
maybe they have done something wrong. It is not your
responsibility or even your privilege to be the judge, the
jury and every adam executioner in some instances, right there

on the spot. You have a job to do where
you are supposed to be professional. And it's too many
of the culture of the security guards. Because, by the way,
a lot of people don't have power in their own life,
in their own world where they traveling from one place
to the next, they.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Have no power.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
They have no power. So therefore, when they get into
environments where they've been given a little badge or a
flashlight or something, now, all of a sudden, you the
big guy, and because you got muscles or whatever, or
some of these females, because you're in a position of
power now it gives you. It makes you feel you
have the right to be disrespectful and harmful to people.

It's correction offices. It's all of those people that are
in that lane around security. And there's so many cops
that are on the beat at night at these clubs
that they end up becoming friendly with the club owners.
And therefore, when you have a complaint. They don't even
want to like in this particular situation, the young man

was abused and the report says nothing about what he states.
They automatically called him the aggressive and if it were
not for the uber driver saying no, I saw with
my own eyes, he would have nobody to back him up,
because you know, the club's gonna say they lost the footage.
They don't have the footage. It renews every night, and
he wants the bouncer arrested and he should be.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
You know, I have a lot of experience with bounces
in the club. You know, a lot of them go
away above and beyond. A lot of them want to
impose it well, especially when you have some level of
notoriety in the name, they want to show that they're
tougher than you. It's a lot of things that they're
going to that and I think definitely, you know, the.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Establishments need to be held accountable for that.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
They should be They should be forced to hire the
proper kindages training. There should be protocol, they should be training.
There should be you know, levels of ds just like
anybody else. I want to give a shout out to
officer who pulled me over this morning. You know, I
was fumbling with my phone and then a little bit
of traffic on the George Washington Bridge. He pulled me

over and I explained to him here, I was fumbling.
I was trying to get an address. I apologize, you know,
and he looked at me and he was like, I'm
going to give you a warning, man, because you respect
for it.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
You know. I don't want to hold you up.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
And he's like, you know, you just need to be
more careful, more mind phone. I said, I appreciate you, officer,
and it was respectful, and so it just goes to
show you that it is possible. And they are office.
I don't know the officer's name, but they are officers
will respect you. And he probably doesn't want his name.
But he had his camera on so he wasn't out
of the skin. He didn't do anything illegal, but he
just realized I have the discretion to be able to

give you a warning based on the way that you
handle the situation, based on just the situation in general.
And it shows that there is the possibility that there
are are officers who understand.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Of course, there are security guy exactly said the nation,
like I go to spots and I see the nation's
security and the first thing they say is hold on, brother,
how you doing?

Speaker 3 (25:09):
You know?

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Wait, no, not, you know.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
There's no levels of aggression. These are big strone dudes.
They're not soft, but they humble. How you doing, brother?
This kid, you give me a second cause you move
to the sude because we're dealing with this and and
I have no problem with you know, just respect, having
respect and reissue and that respect. So you know, shout
out to the offices who do it right. But and

we got a hold accountable those who do it wrong
for sure. So that brings me to my music segment.
You know, there's something poet of our newer segments, and
we highlight music either from up and coming artists or
established artists that has like a positive message good. Well,

I think it's good and positive. It's reality based, you
know what I'm saying, because I think a lot of
music is not reality based. And being an artist, I
know that positivity doesn't look the same in everybody, you
know what I'm saying. So when like when I thought
about Slipping and Falling and Dmax the song him telling

his story and how you related to that, like damn
I went through all that. Some people are like, damn,
the situation to them might have been crazy, but it
was something that I was able to relate to.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
It's something that a lot of people from our communities
were able to relate to, and it actually got you
thinking outside of just, you know, the normal things that
we see in our communities, and it woke you up
to certain realities that people are dealing with. So this
song right here is from you know, one of my
young boys, five year four Rent, and it's Cooled Storytime,

and it's him telling the story about a guy that's
in the hood. You know, he gets locked up and
he goes through all types of things in jail, and
you know, you just I want you to go look
at the video.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
You don't if you haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
So I don't want to give the whole story with
but it's a it's a real compelling telle that if
I was a young boy and I'm following the drill
scene and all listen and I hear five year who's
one of like the premier drill artists, and he gives
this perspective, it would make me just listen, Damn, it's
called Storytime.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Storytime. Go look it up.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Man shout out to five years for this video. You know,
five years. Like I said, he's one on my young boys.
I always kick it to kick it with him from.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Time to time.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Sometimes he's a little you know, he goes on the
customers some saying some things that I don't always agree with.
But I'm into counsel culture that cancel culture. So a
lot of times I sit and have comps. I might
da him as, hey, you know, just understand that this
is what your platform is. And when you say such
and such, you know you're inspiring and motivating these type

people or these type of activities.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
So I do that to him a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
I mean every time we have been in space with him,
he seems to be just a very just a good guy,
you know, a nice kind person. Of course, when I
heard him say recently, first of all, I'm gonna go
listen to a storytime so I can be up on
these these songs, I think it's like you said, it's

a message, whether or not everybody thinks it's a positive
message or I'm not saying storytime isn't. I'm just saying
whatever in this segment. The message, whether you think it's
positive or not. Sometimes it's just what someone needs to
hear in order for them to make a change or
to keep going in a difficult situation. So for our

Women's History Month segment today, I'm really into this topic
because you know, online there's a lot of people who
have so many opinion You know how I feel. I
think I feel like every week I'm talking about the
opinions on the internet. But there's a difference between the
opinions of those of us who are somewhat more mainly

inexperienced in areas and people who actually have experience, who
are actually doing business and who have actually grown businesses
from start to finish and really you know, got themselves
into these places that become a beacon for the rest
of us who are working towards it. And so today
there is a black woman that we're bringing on who

has a brand that is well known to black people.
You're not going to really know, even though she might
have some tips for you too.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
You don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yes, anyway, See this is why I can't, I really can't.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
But we are.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Just because your grandma, anyway, can we talk about it?
And so we're bringing a beautiful woman on today with us.
Mahisha Dellinger and Mahesha launched Curls, a beauty brand that
began in two thousand and two. I know curls, like
all the girls know curls, especially you know Black women

who have natural hair or like to wear their locks
and their curls. She started this brand in two thousand
and two from her home in her garage in Sacramento.
And at the time, there were no textured brands, like
textured hair aisles. So when you go into the store,
you know, they got everything for everybody else but us.

But that's changing. And I like to think, and I'm
sure you know, as we bring Mahisha on, she can
talk about how her brand was one of those to
sort of begin the process of people paying attention to
the kinks, the coils, the curls, and our hair, our
actual natural texture. And today I'm really excited that this

woman who has built an empire of estimated to be
over twenty million dollars in this haircare world in one
hundred thousand stores.

Speaker 3 (31:09):

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Huge, huge, So let's let's let's welcome our guest. Ms Dellon,
Jermis Mahisha to the show today and I love it
too because she's got a black name like Tamika Mas.
You know what I'm saying, Thank you Black Month, and
we just finished Black and Black Month and now it's

Happy Women's History.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Yes, Happy Women's History months, all my beautiful black women.
And otherwise red is your colors. Thank you, darling, thank
you so tell us.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Tell us. I mean there's so much that we can discuss.
We ultimately want to get to this idea. You know,
Black folks be like, why we why we can't just
keep all of our stuff? Why we got to involve
other people in our stuff? And you know, every time
we see the my Ls and the main Choices and others,
these brands that really came behind you, right when they

scale they sell, you know, people feel a way about it.
They feel the product has changed, They feel so many things,
and we want to get into that. But before we
go there, talk to us about your journey Sacramento in
the garage. To get to where you are now, you
have to have some faith and some talent.

Speaker 5 (32:26):
Yes, well, it was a lot of faith and a
lot of frustration obviously in corporate America because I was
dealing with the racist manager at Intel Corporation that targeted
me and was helping on getting rid of me. Despite
being an exceptional employee, despite you know, killing every single
level of achievement I'm supposed to, despite being the first

one in, the last one out, I was targeted. And
so when I was put on a corrective action plan
to get rid of me in six months, I was
a young single mother without anyone to look for to
help me. My mom love me, but she can provide
a resources. Her dad left me when I was six
months pregnant. It was all on me. So that really
changed how I viewed corporate America how I viewed because

I thought before that I was gonna retire from Mentel.
I was a proud and tell employee. I was looking
forward to doing all the things and just scale up
that ladder quickly. And I was disillusioned really quickly, right size,
left sized, ostracized in corporate America, and realized that that
wasn't the path for me. So that experience ultimately led

me to my destiny. And so I thanked this gentleman
on Facebook because I saw how he you know, he
steals an Intel. I found him and sent him a
to word google our message and Facebook and said google
me because I want him to know that what he
tried to do wasn't gonna happen. I actually scaled to

where I needed to be, So I thanked him for that.
But you know, my journey was one that was because
I felt my back was against the wall in corporate
I had no one else to fall back on. I
had to find another path and I was newly natural mother.
As I mentioned, I had a young daughter. Was looking
for products for me and my daughter. The aisle, as

you mentioned and for us, was non existent, and the
options we had were like pink lotion, breeze, Jerry Cole juice,
all the things we've used going up. And sometimes my
hair looked cool. Sometimes it would look like Jerry curl,
sometimes it looked like all whatever. Right, It was never consistent,
but most importantly I wanted something that was natural, and

she was young. I don't want to call the chemicals
on her hair.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
And that's how it was birth.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
So the frustration of corporate America, the lack of options
on market, and being a consumer myself, that trifecta brought
together the birth of curls. And I don't think that
without that experience in corporate that I may have, I
may I might have stepped out into that path. But
I was pushed because I saw that in six months
I was about to be let go and I had

to start working out the path to get to something else.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
So what was that journey? Like, I hear the path?
So when you first, what was the first thing you did?
Because just meet this hearing. Okay, you know what, it's
not the like a lot of people, especially people in
our communities, we feel impression like we want to do things,
but we see the end and we were like it's
too hard.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
I can't. I gotta do this.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
I'm gonna do that. I'm gotta do this. So what
what did you do? Like how did you just start
and just get up and say look, I'm gonna look.
Did you do some research?

Speaker 5 (35:33):
Like what was that process that I'm gonna tell you
that process before? I want to say though that the
black female entrepreneurs are the fastest growing segment of entrepreneurs
because we are so disenfranchised with corporate that we're finding
other ways to make our livelihood happen. But what I
did was I started by doing my due diligence which

was my research and I wanted to see, one, what
does it take to start a business in hair care?
And the first thing I learned, of course, I needed
was a cosmetic chemist, someone that was going to make
the formula of the recipe right. And finding that person,
I was like, Okay, cosmetic chemists, Awesome, where I go now?
So I went to the Society Cosmetic Chemists and joined

that organization and met some chemists and interviewed through that process,
and then from there I found someone and Gary Gallanti,
I've never forget his name, Gary Gallanti, and I hired
him and he started. We started with four initial products,
just four, and we went through the process of R
and D, which looked like, let's talk about what you

want in the products, what don't you want in the products?
And then it would sample them, send me batch samples
of each like eight or so or ten each of
the products. I would test them, give back feedback, and
then we kept going. That was a nine month process
right until we got it perfect it. And along the
way as he was doing that, we created the website.
We started to design the low go, the labels, you know,

picking packaging all that. So during that whole process, of
R and D, which is nine months. I'm doing everything
else also, so then we're ready to launch right April second,
turn the switch on the on the website. And it
was funny, I had eight orders that day. I was like, whoa,
I have eight orders.

Speaker 1 (37:21):

Speaker 2 (37:21):
I was so excited, and it was.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
That was the beginning of it. It was an e
commerce only journey for a few years, several years. And
so one thing I do when I mentor my mentees,
do not think when you launch a product and have
something in the market two point five seconds, that you
should go straight to retail. Retail can wipe you clean

if you do not have a good structure in place,
if you don't have the turns. Every store every week
has to sell a certain amount. If you don't keep up,
they will delete you. And with that deletion comes bill
that will hit you in the post that will can
take your business out. So I did it the conservative

and strategic way, which was dot com for a while.
Built up my demand, my consumer base understood her needs,
wants and demands on what she was looking for, what
she was missing. So we instantly went from just four
to eight. We bought in the kids line and then
from that we grew to like twenty five and then
we kept going, so twenty five meeting between two lines

of kids of blind and adult life, and then we
perfected them before we're ready to be exposed on that level.
So take the time, and I always say to take
the time that while you're kind of obscure, to get
those things right and understand your market, understand that you
have enough of a base to support retail, and then
go pitch. And that's the little proach I took.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
And you used your products on your yourself and your
daughter for a while before you decide, and I'm sure
friends or who never was in your your space that
you could use it on. That's another thing that I
notice that there are a lot of people who want
to sell a product and they're so quick to try
to get it out there right, But it takes time.

It sounds like you were baking for a while and
figuring it out that and I think social media has really,
unfortunately given us the impression that the timeline can be
so quick, and it doesn't give people an opportunity to
build their business beyond their product, like you may have

been using your shade, but a mixture for a while,
But that doesn't mean that it's ready to be sold
to other people and that you have the capacity to
take on what it looks like to have an actual business.
I mean, I think that's what I hear you saying
absolutely one hundred and ten percent. You have to have
the systems in place, you have to have operations solid,

you have to have a strong consumer monthly demand every
single month. You have to to a point to know
that when you're slow month sard. If you don't know
that already, then you have been in business long enough.

Speaker 5 (40:05):
I'm slow between January and February, or I'm slow October
and November, that's the time to re up. Or do
you know more investment or I know that you know
that my customer base is eighteen to twenty five and
therefore they need X y Z for me. If you
don't know your base, your processes, who you are, who
you're selling to, and what your levels of commitment could

be to a retailer because they're going to expect a
lot from you, then you're not ready. And I just
had someone come to me that went to retail and
she her company got they brought them in during after
George Floyd. Right, they carriated this, you know, this whole
accelerator program for black brands. And now fast forward to today,

no more focused. She's an indie brand and a sauce business.
She has a sauce, a wing sauce brand, and they're
deleting her. So the support went away. She's getting deleted now.
I helped her negotiate to not have that chargeback feet
I told you about that would let you come for
your pocketbook. I helped to negotiate that out, so she's
at least exiting without that big bill. That doesn't usually happen.

But we're gonna use that story and her experience to teach.
So we're gonna have this big We're gonna do a
live We're gonna do an event to talk about retail
readiness with a buyer that buys for a national retailer,
so that we can help other brands blackbrass specifically know
how to do this right.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
So I want to ask another question before we get
into that. You know, you started your business before there
was really like a big Internet presence and a lot
of Internet marketing, and that was in two thousand and two.
Do you do you think it's easier now or do
you feel like it's helped your business or was it
a lot better for you be forwards Internet because you

were more into it, or there was a ground.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
What are you compared to I think it's definitely easier
back then or worth you know, you can go hire
an influencer or influencers to support your brand, your launch.
It was definitely a lot more gorilla marketing if you
didn't have the dollars supporting you to do the heavy marketing,
which I did not, So it was a lot of
definitely going where the consumer, was a lot of sampling,
et cetera. But definitely it was before MySpace, I mean

think about it. So it was a different approach then,
and so the brand grew over time, and so now
you know, after over one hundred and you know, eighty
million dollars worth of sales. You know, over the course
of the time, we've seen the different different the lifespans
of this industry, from the life of the industry to
technology to how to go to market, it's changed substantially.

And so one of the things what was your.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Marketing too then? Without so I feel like it means
your product must have been and must be and of
course I know it because I know your product, like
you're a legend and your products are legendary. But you
must have had some real good shit, because how did
you get you know what I mean? It must have

been a staple brand for people to love it the way.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
Well, you know a lot of things that people that
we did then at the beginning was a lot of sampling.
You we not those little packets you get when you
go to like get in a magazine, No, I mean
those premium two ounces. We invested in that because that's
going to give you one enough of experience to feel it, right.
But we know that if a black woman fought loved

something and she loves it, so she'll buy it again.
So we needed her to experience it. So we invested
heavily and sampling and then went to where she was
right So whether that be you know, concerts were sampling
at or events wherever black women were didn't have to
be hair related, just where audience was that that's where
we would be. And so we were on the ground

a lot, and we had lots of curls and backs
that were out all the different cities doing a lot
of sampling, and you know, no, no, no requirements, do anything.
Here's you know the product, tell you about it, how
you can love it, it's great for you. Hear what
to do with it and where to buy it. And
that turned over to continual and repeat customers. You spent

a lot of money. Yeah, and I think it's an investment.
I'm always you. You want people to really experience the brand.
But then as they got to love the brand, then
you need to bring it back to what is the
brand offering for me beyond just a product. So that's
where you know, bringing that DNA of the brand owner
into the product. For me, it's giving back to black entrepreneurs.

And I created my Black Women and Million's Academy. That
academy helping women become millionaires is to help them when
you launch a product, usher them to and through success.
So that's a part of the DNA. What else am
I going to do for my consumers besides give her
a product? I can help her. She's the fastest growing
segment of entrepreneurs become successful through this program. So, and

it's something I was doing before curl LL before I
became successful during Curls, helping people with their businesses. So
I think it's twofold, and people really buy into when
they see something authentic, right, you can't get that from
a pantein. You're never gonna be the touch of panteen,
you know, the founder that you're not going to be
the connect. They're not going to care about the community.

And I think supporting black brands and black brands are
getting back should be where we place our money.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
So that brings me to my question.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
So we know that black brands have you know, we
I listen to content a lot of times, although kindes
are crazy, but he says a lot of things that
I've realized that this seems to be a ceiling for
black brands. There's always the siling for black brands. And
no matter how big you are, how big you are,
you don't reach to be the Pantings. You don't.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
They don't allow you to do that.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
And a lot of times what we do is we
merge with other companies. We merge bigger you know, parents
and companies, and sometimes it works up, sometimes it doesn't.
What do you think is going to take, as somebody
who's done probably everything possible in this business, is going
to take for black businesses to emerge without the health

of the you know, other organizations of other people.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Would I like people, Okay, collaboration.

Speaker 5 (46:29):
Bottom line, we're gonna have to be the work together
the way that other communities do. We unfortunately don't do
that well. Yet some do, but I strive not on
a big enough platform to impact change. If all of
the people say, think about all the how many billionaires
we have in our community? I know they're not a
lot of billionaires in our community. How many millionaires? How

many multi millionaires? Like it has to be a strategic
approach to this that we want to build something that
we can you know, others and also build others up.
I think Richly was trying to do that, right, but
we need more than just the one right? How many
are doing that?

Speaker 1 (47:09):
You know?

Speaker 5 (47:09):
Like what if what if Okay, Beyonce just created her
hair Caroline right, I don't know if you try to yet. Okay,
what if jay Z and they're not they're not cool anymore?
But jay Z and Kanye came together and created some
sort of platform that could bring together a whole bunch
of black brands and the umbrella and lift them up
and bring and give them a level of education, the

level the access, the resource, the tools whatever they need
to get to an acquisition, right from maybe another black brand.
What if Magic Johnson bought black brands instead of his
what all the different brands he's buying and Shaquille O'Neil
and you know, the people who are investing in other
white brands, we need them to invest in the black brands.

That's what's gonna take collaboration.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Okay, So I like that. I mean I see a
lot of pushback of that out the mergers and the acquisitions,
as you said online right, as we see some of
the ladies and men. But it's generally, as you said,
at this point, a lot of women brands, once they
get to a particular place, they're looking to scale, they're

looking to sell their bit. Especially you want to sell
while you're hot, right, because that's that's the time when
you're when you're going to be most successful. But there
are people who feel like, why do we have to
sell outside of our community? To Maison's point, like, and
we know we don't have propit and gambles, you don't
have those big things. Would you say, like, what is it?

I mean, I want to articulate properly what I'm thinking
It's like, what's the point if you build something and
then you just have to sit in your in your
small studio with it. Is it not the point that
you're trying to grow to the to the place where
you become a multimillion if not billion dollar brand that

hires your own people, that allows other artists, talented whatever
we want to call them, chemists and all the things,
to then therefore start their own brands. But I think
that a lot of people don't know is that even possible.
Once these folks come in, they buy you, do you
still are you still in a position to grow other

smaller businesses once you get to that place or do
you just kind of get knocked out the box and
now it's just your face and someone else is running everything.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
Well, it can work different ways depending on whatever structure
you put in place, right, but you could there For example,
say I want to say before I go into an answer,
when you create a business, you should have the end
goal in mind. You need to know that the exit
plan should be known when you launch. So if my
plan is to launch a brand and I know that

in five years, ten years i'm a scale and sell it,
that's fine, Or is my goal to create this business,
have generational wealth and have my children take it over.
That's fine. Whatever your plan is, you need to know
what the exit is because we don't live forever, you know, right,
We're not we have mortality here, So figure out that
exit plan out the gate. But can you like celebrate

and then scal others? Absolutely, it's a choice of deciding
how you use your resources, how use your talent, how
use your treasures? Right, so, as you sell and you
make your change and put some in your pocketbook, are
you reaching back to up others? Are you gonna, you know,
bring another another business to up? That's a personal decision
and that's what I hope that we are able to create.

And that was to my other point about collaboration. We
need to find a way to do that. And each
person has their own way and their own approach. And
for me, it's always been to who much is given,
much is required. So I have been doing this before
the sell. Now I can do it a larger sale
and a larger scale I can. I'm able to help
more businesses with free resources and make when people partner

with me, they know they're going have to give back
to my community in some way, So it's gonna be
it's gonna come to territory. We can ask that when
you're on at the top of your game and you
have buyers wanting you, you can then put that into
your deal.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Right, you can negotiate what's absolutely right.

Speaker 5 (51:20):
Yeah, and I like, you know, I totally If you're
talking to me and you're bringing something to the table,
you better believe you're gonna expect something that's going to
be given back to my people as well, because that's
just a part of my DNA.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
So what does it so do they control or is
that something you can negotiate. Also, the integrity of the brand,
because I think that's the critique that I hear the most,
is that people feel like when they love the product
and then it sells and now it's not the same
product anymore. Talk about that process.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
Well, if you say your brand is sold, and they
come together and usually these people are being counters, so
they are counting the beans at a higher level and go, Okay,
it's costing you, Mahisha fifty cents to make this amazing
condition everyone loves. But if we move it over to China,
we can make it for twelve cents. We're gonna say

X amount of million a year, we're moving to China.
They can do that, and a lot of times those
bean counter decisions can negatively impact the business, the brand.
It can negative impact the experience with the customer, and
sometimes they don't care. So you have to be involved
at the level where you go. I'm not changing my formalsts,
I'm not changing my people. When Coma Coatreil sold pro

Line back in the eighties, he was one of the
pioneering brands you know of our time, right black brands.
He sold all the you know, hair food, all the
hair greases. We used to buy Coma control. When he
sold to Lorel, he put in his deal that all
his people had to go to Lorel with his company.
So you can do those kind of things if you're

looking out for your people, your brand, your products. It's
a matter of if you Sometimes some people may say
no and walk away from a deal. You just got to,
you know, see if you're really about that life or not.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Yes, And that's what I said.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
I said, you know for me, because we was having
a conversation and I'm like, for me, like when I
like a brand, you know, there's certain things I like
about the brand and what I know, this is a
lot of times when certain brands that you get, when
they're in the infantry of you know, their production, the
quality is just different, you know, and the once it's
taken over about correlations, it just it just lacks a

little bit of a lot of quality certain things that
you enjoy about.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
You know. And so I understand.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
And then when we were talking about we understand that
the price points and you know that the company gets
in and they were trying to figure out how they
make the most money to spend the less. I just
think for me as a consumer, you know, we want
to keep we want to keep the things as pure
and natural from the beginning of it. So I just
want I just my last question for you is what
advice would you just give someone just entering into this

as you know, ambitious as you are, you know, based
on stakes, based on the things that you've done.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
That's right, just one good piece of advice that you
would give.

Speaker 5 (54:11):
Absolutely, But before I do give that, I want to
say that I don't want to scare some away, someone
away from potentially selling by saying that your you know,
your your formas could be impacted if you have the
right partner that cares about it. You can have a
great experience where your brand is not impact in a
way that they're going to change your foremasts, because that
hasn't happened for everyone, right, So I just want to

make that clear because there are people who care about
keeping that integrity there. And so if you're a brand
owner and looking to sell, just your due diligence. And
this is to my now to my my answer. If
you're looking to sell, I have a few different pieces
of advice. If you're a product owner and you're looking
to sell, my biggest piece of advice is to court

them like you're courting and dating for a potential husband
or wife. Pray about it. Number one, lay it before
God and see what their tensions are for your brand.
Don't be so thirsty to take what you see on paper,
but get an understand as to what they plan to
do with their brand. Now, they're going to come with

the money, but what happens after you signed on that
dot line? Are they gonna protect what your legacy created?
That is one thing that you want to be sure of.
So you know, do your little happy dance. We see
those zeros, but make sure you keep the integrative of
your brand. Now, if you're starting out as a new
brand owner of any company, the biggest thing I say

is definitely do your due diligence. This sounds simple, but
really a lot of people tend to have a great
idea and then go to market and I see it
time and time again. I mentor a lot of people
and I have to remind them, like we'll wind it
backwards and do your research to see is this a
sustainable business?

Speaker 2 (55:56):
How many is it really is?

Speaker 5 (55:57):
It's a great idea, but do I have customers for it?
Is there a customer demand for it? That's research that's
going to be you diving in and figuring out who
my competitors are. And if there aren't any competitors, that
could be a good thing, or it could be a
sign that that's not a need for that product that
you have or a service. So before you launch, because
eighty percent will fail within five years, make sure that

take the time to dig into that research. And then
another thing I want to say is your operations. So
many great business leaders that I see that have so
much potential and great products, but the operations it's like
building a house on sand. The foundational work isn't done,
and so you're spending money without knowing that you've overspent

because you're not following these pos or knowing how much
you should spend, and you're just throwing money at problems
without knowing what you're doing. So the operational foundation has
to be in place and strong, and I think that
that comes with sometimes lack of experience. Also from us
always feel like we are matriarchs and we should do

it and go it alone and not asking for help,
ask for help, don't. It's not a don't be prideful.
Don't be prideful. Ask for help for things you'll know.
You shouldn't know everything. You shouldn't. If you know everything,
then you probably spread too thin. The hire people smarter
than you to give you those answers that you need.
The operations will matter. You can make twenty million and

if you if you spend nineteen, then.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
What have you done?

Speaker 5 (57:32):
Okay? So I think those are two biggest things for
the brand new owners. But then you know, I would
love for us to also find a mentor that's really
invested in your growth, join a program like my Black
Women Make a Man's Academy that that's what we're doing
is really helping women get to success, find a way
to find people like you that you can touch and

tap into.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yeah, you know, and we have to wrap, and I
know you have to go. Thank you so much for
your time. And he said, I'm sitting here thinking as
you're talking, and you've already answered this question. But the
woman or the younger girl, woman who's in her garage
right now, doing what you did, starting where you started,

what would you say to her about the journey and
having to have that faith to keep going.

Speaker 5 (58:24):
When you just don't know if it's going to work out.
I would say to her, keep going, baby girl. The
harder you work, and the more committee you are to
your path and your journey, and the more open you
are to receive help, you will get to where you
want to be. Just don't be discouraged. You will have
bumps along the way. It's part of the journey.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Just receive it.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
But most importantly, do not let it any of those
challenges or failures disrupt your heart or make you feel
bad about yourself. Don't take it personally. Make sure you
separate your your being and your feelings from those failures,
and remember that failure isn't final. Failure is a lesson

and a part of the journey.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Legendary, legendary Mansiadllinger.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
We appreciate you continue, thank you, and you deserve all
the flowers.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
You know, you've been doing this work for so long.
And I know the brain even.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Though I don't, you know, men know really most music.
But I've seen it in sisters, mothers, everybody's house. Continue
to be a household name and continue to break down areas.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
And men, can you really don't they didn't?

Speaker 5 (59:44):
We do? We tell you guys take it from there,
the women's showers whatever.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
I've used it once in a while. I know I've
used it because IVE seen it in the shadow.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
When you just put it in whatever you're saying, it
hasn't been intentional. Well, we got the words the curls.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
I'm like that, I'm not I'm supposed to use this
your sneaky using real quickly.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
Thank you guys for having me. This is a pleasure.
I had a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Thank you so much. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
A lot of people they do just listening to her.
You tell her she's very intentional about wanting to, you know,
pass the knowledge forward and you know, leave a legacy
and see someone else be successful.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah. I mean she talked about
when signing deals, you have to make sure that you
put in your deal that this partner, whoever you're working with,
whoever is purchasing your brand or whatever, that they have
to give back to your community. And oftentimes we're so
it's not I'm not even gonna I will not judge everybody,

because sometimes you just don't know. And that's one area
that while we have learned how to be good workers,
we've learned everything as black and brown people about being
good workers. And we get some of our leadership qualities
from watching how our grandmothers and grandfathers and how they

had the little restaurant in the community and they did,
you know, washing clothes for people in the back in
the backyard, like we know, but no one has really
sat us down and taught us business like real business.
You can go to business school and even we know
you go to people who go to these business schools.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
You know what you know, I want to say, it's
a lot of before there was business, there was people
who was leading, there were people who created. So the
business model, I think that's something that has been created,
I think, but I think the leadership and the willingness
to do it has to be something that you're born.
I don't think you could teach someone how to lead
like you if you if you're teaching a bunch of

fathers how to lead, they never going to be a lead.
Like I've seen people who who you know, are in
position leadership that just will you like, I don't even
know how you in this position because you're not really leader.
And then I've seen people who are not in position
leadership that you can just tell a born leaders because
they leave innate, because they just do what comes natural
to them, because they understand.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
That the time is to lead. So, you know, you
can teach people.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
What I'm saying business, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying
that we learned leadership because, like I said, our families
have always owned the local restaurant, the you know, like
I said, cleaner services shoot without even having an actual
cleaners building. Our families we had elderly people, or at

that time they weren't necessarily elderly, but they were washing
clothes for the neighbors in the in their yard or
in their home, like we have always had businesses, but
learning how to operate a business. She talked about operations.
That's a very important thing. We know so many of
our businesses. You try to go online, or you try

to get your hand done, or you're whatever, and people
don't have good business acumen. They just don't they their
business skills and their and their communication and keeping the
time being timely, you know, just all of that it's off.
It's off the products, how they send things to you,

making sure they follow up. It's really a challenge. And
I think more that's something like what she was talking about.
And you can tell this is a woman who knows
what the hell she's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
But it also was just just listening to her story.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Right, she was working and she was doing and then
she won't realize that I have to do something different, right, Like,
that's what the leadership because the business like it's so
many different, you know, situations I can talk about. I
was listening to an interview today about Anthony Davidson and
Charles Balffley has said he's just never been a leader.
And he's always been the top scorer on this team.

He's always been, you know, the premium player, but he
just lacked the leadership quality, and he never wanted to
be the leader.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
And he said, he's like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
You know, I don't have the I don't have the meaning,
I don't have all the things that people might say
as a leader. So I don't lead in that way,
but I don't want to not be in So a
lot of times people are pushing positions that they're not
supposed to be in. But then a lot of times
the people like her who identify leadership and then they
they grab on to the business Appramen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
They get talked about the business and they want to learn.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Right, if you don't run, if you don't run the
business of your home properly, more than likely when if
you start a business, it doesn't transfer well, you know
what I'm saying. So that's so you have to and
that's what I'm saying. Other communities, from young they are
learning about business and they're they're there, they are around

and in environments that teach it as a second language,
like it's just a part of their every day. With us,
as black folks, we don't necessarily learn money management right as.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Creatives, right because if you look at Black people just
just historically, we're very creative, very creative, so we we
are sold in the process of the creativity that the
monetization of all those things we don't even think, we
just we so well, that's creativity.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
That's why I always say it's important for us to
understand from whence we came to know where we are going, right.
I truly believe that because in all the environments that
I've been in, where my teachings have come from, and
the study of our elders, they always talk about understanding
where we came from, and this is and this is

and this is, this is important. The creative side of
us was exploited, so they always encouraged us to be created, right,
because they needed our creativity to build every damn thing
that this world, everything we have. Somewhere along the line,
African people or people of African descent were involved in

how it came to be. They did not want us
to read books stuff right. They did not want us
to learn business acumen or to learn how to operate
business because they did not want us to be educated
in that way. So that's why I'm saying that other
communities is just a part of what they do. I

think about when we think about Linda, right, Linda Sarsua,
our dear Muslim sister, and I just think about the
way in which her mind works and how much she
has taught me over time. You know that she was
raised in a household where learning how to operate businesses,

how to deal with money, you know, money management, all
of that. That's something that was very, very much so
ingrained in her. When she when she brings that to us,
and then we have all the other components. It builds
the soup. The pot is rich, and it's great. But
but I'm just saying, we work. That's not something that

they ever really wanted us to learn. It was actually
stripped from us on purpose so that we would only
be able to work for the man and help them
build what they wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Because it was you took advantage something you've seen. You've
seen how a person was, you know, pretty much cash cow.
You're like, wow, this person is so talented. I don't
even know how to exactly. Don't understand that they work
millions and billions of dollars. So I ain't gonna tell them.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
You know, I'm gonna get them there and here sign this.
You know you would me were good. You're gonna be good, and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
You don't know how much you actually exactly by the
time you realize that they don't have one hundred million
and you don't have five hundred thousand, and all the
time and music all the time, it's like, you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
Know, I think, I think, I think we're at stage
now as.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Just you know, as creators, as business people, just as
just individuals that we understand that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
We're coming up. Oh no, that that whole. I mean,
now you've got you have you have economic development becoming
a part of the second language of us as well. Now,
I mean there we're teaching kids. They are a program.
I promise you that as soon as my grand daughter
is able to talk, to speak well enough and understand
she already understand, but to speak, she is going to

be in some type of class for little people knowing
how to use money, how to save money, and what's
how to even invest these There are kids out here
that are learning that now. And I love how black
people are developing and growing in this area. But I
just want us to be clear that as people are
listening in, don't think that there's something wrong with you

because you don't know. You should you need to be
away that this was actually designed to be this way
where we would only be as good as to help
build something for somebody else. So yeah, so what you're
donna get to that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
So as me talking about music business, you know businessness
online chatter ever since pretty much, you know, killing Mike
one Grandmy, there's been just a lot of chatter here
and there.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
They were talking about NAS winning, you know, willing to Grandy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Had the last Hip Hop Awards and I'm at the
Greens and he won the last Grammys, and it's just
been this chatter and it was based off you know
something I heard Gilly said and who also is an
elder the rapper, and he was saying, yeah, yeah, he
started off rapping and and it's it's it's something that

a lot of people say and they don't see why,
you know, older hip hop artists are getting awards while
they don't stop.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
And for me, what I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Don't get what do you mean why they gonna stop
just pretty much stop rapping.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
They want No, it's not he didn't say that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
I'm this is this is a common theme and it
started out when we were young, you know, like I
don't nobody want to hit the old rappers.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
You're too old. You got too old. You got too old.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
And what I don't get that's starting to be older
and realizing that I can actually rap, I'll rap most
of the young dudes in my mind is shopper. You know,
It's not like a sport where you're playing sports and
you physically can't move your knees hurt, you can't jump
as high, you know what I'm saying, You can't play
on the court that well. You can see that you're
diminishing in your skills set. Why in hip hop is

the only genre of music that we think that our
artists as their age have to disappear or we want
to discredit them, or we want to say that they
need to retire, like you know, and all time I
watched Kenny Rodgers winning awards at seventy years old winning.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Paltrow is still getting very like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
So for me, it's like, why do hip hop artists
and and people of the hip hop culture want to
tell older hip hop artists that they need to sound
or they don't give them the same credit that every
other form of music gives their elders. So, you know,
I just really don't get it, and I think that
we have to move past that and hip hop, you know,

because first of all, it's a lot of older rappers
that will wrap a lot of younger rappers around the pole,
you know, And just there should be levels of respect,
right if somebody's been doing something and they have a
level of skill, and they've been doing something for long,
there's a level of mastery that right. So not to
knowledge the mastery that comes with age in an off

form like music, it's crazy to me, Like you, those
are people you should want to learn from, you know, you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
Should want to sit up and listen.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Because they probably forget not more about it, probably about rapping.
You probably will ever know the things that I've learned
over the last twenty plus years about music that I
didn't know, that I possibly couldn't have known. That I
was taught by elder individuals, that people like DMX taught
me about cadence and taught me about infliction and taught

me about you know, just doing so many different things.
Double Triple On Turna just taught me about everything within
hip hop.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
The things that you can learn from somebody that's been
here long enough, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
You should want that, and we we should never wanted
to violate the ends and people who've done because it's
a violation, because if you tell me, I would say, well,
I think it's a violation to me because if I've
been if it's like your grandmother, right, good grandmothers gave
you don't know nothing, grandmother.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
That's a violation to me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Well that's but that's not well. I mean, I listened
to some of this commentary in different places, and I
don't think that people are saying you don't know anything.
I think they're saying that as the younger generation is
coming getting you know, the younger generation is coming into
their own, there needs to be things and a celebration

of their art form as well. Right, and and that
at some point, which I do understand, you give people
flowers when their time, when they're in their prime, and
therefore it makes room for more people to be acknowledged.
I think one of the biggest issues, and I think
we're talking about two different things, is that is that

the Grammys, in and of itself, it is just way
too important.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
It's not so much. I don't think it's that. I
think it is.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
I think it's.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
But the thing is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
That the hip hop artists be talking about now they
created what it is to win it bring me in
that category. Right, So this new sound and the sub
gene that the new kids, they have to define what
that is like, you got to create your own. When
when hip hop first came out and they was doing
it wasn't accepted in the Grammy.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
There wasn't there wasn't no Hip Hop War Awards in
the Grammar. And they still they still fighting for that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
So what I'm trying to say is in order for
you to be celebrated for what it is that you do,
you have to make what you do something that they
feel like they need to celebrate.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
So the BT was not no it is it is
And that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
So what happens that the BT Awards takes at the
new genre of rap that they come They have their
own categories, right, That's why you you you listen, you
very rarely are going to hear older rappers in those
categories because it's more pop music, and it's more extream,
it's more what's popular to the new the culture right now,
and and and you know, in contrary to what the

world has already gravitated to. So what has to happen
is I think that the young artists who are paving
their way and hit are hot. You gotta get hot
in Europe, you gotta get hot in Germany, you gotta
get hot in Dubai.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
Right, the sound that you have has to go over
there and be like, No.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
I'm saying that because because the pushback that I got
on the Killer Mike piece was he can't be better
than Drake, right, which you know, now there is debate
about whether Drake is even hip hop but whatever, but
Drake was nominated for But that's the thing, right, So
that's what they're trying to say. They're like, why would which,

by the way, I still think killing. I know that
you conserve it, but I'm just saying what.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Happen is this. Let me explain to you. There's pop music,
and there's grammy music. There's substance music. Like Drake put
together a body of work that was to disappeal to
people who like pop music.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
He put he didn't there's no there's no real substance.
It's dope music.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
When you listen to it, you can go to covet
but there's no direction, right, There's no there's no movie
in it. There's nothing in this in Drake's new album.
That's gonna tell you something about Drake we didn't know before.
That's gonna make you feel like, damn, I connect through
Drake on a different level. When you listen to Grammy music,
it's like it's just like going to the Oscars when
they want you to play a role that when they

look at it, people identify.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
People might cry about it, people are like, damn you,
that touched me in a different way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
So if you just putting out a body of work,
that's okay. I know the sounds that everybody want to hear.
Right now, I'm put to get all these beats and
I'm just gonna put some dope raps on him, put
the features that I want to put on him. That's
not what the Grammy looks for. The Grammy's gonna look
for that in music. So it's not saying he's better
than Drake. Will not better than Drake. It's just the
body of work that he put out. Wasn't a Grammy

nominated by his work. And it's a lot of artists
that make good music. I'm not saying that they don't
make good music. I'm just saying, if you're looking for
a criteria that comes with the Grammys.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
There's a certain day.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Explain to you the the guy who wanted who you know,
is the Grammy, the person who's in charge of Grammys.
He broke down exactly what they look for when they're
looking for albums and rings, when they're looking for songs
and rings.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
If you are not checking those boxes, you will not win.
To grant me.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
So what I'm trying to say is, well, I'm not
saying they're always right. Of course, it's a lot because
you know why, because hip hop culture is black culture.
Black culture is black people are thirteen percent of the population.
That's just the reality of what it is. And it's
moved past that. The reason why they have t acknowledge
because we've infiltrated into every other population.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
So what I'm trying to say is the new subgenre of.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Hip hop has not integrated that far into the culture
to different cultures. Yet they're still deigning what the drill
music is and they still they hear it and it's great,
but it has not infiltrated into the culture like pure
hip hop and what we call pure hip hop is.
And that's why you see a lot of this pushback

from pioneers and hip hop. They're saying, well, you know
that's the music, but they need to call it something
different because it does.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
It just doesn't have the same appeal. It doesn't have
the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
I mean all the time, I want to say this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
But we don't call Louise music and R and B
the same thing. Lose and R and B is something different.
And even though they came from hip, r and B
came from blues and it came from rhythm.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
But if they don't call it the same thing, they
don't just keep putting everything in one category. And I
think that's what.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
The problem is different from hip hop exactly. So that's
what you so you wouldn't get nominated in the category
because it's hip hop, Well, then the Grammys is wrong
because they should be. I'm find a way to make
it that they.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):
Need to do.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
The thing is also we need to do better too,
because you know what, if they're not respect they're just like,
if they don't respect what you do, you got to go.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Do it harder.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
If people want to create your own and really focus
on it, and that's a whole other. When I say
your own about your own award shows your own likes
and people have to actually show up take it seriously.
Got to create it, people have to show up. They
have to take it seriously, be invested in it the

same way they are when they win the Grammys.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Or how people feel like if you created something and
you expected somebody to be more serious about what you create.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
You know, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying
is that the experiences like these award chills and what
we put into it right. Because you hear people talking
about the BET Awards and a lot of people go
and people do take it seriously. I'm not saying they don't,
but it'll be like, uh, you know, it's like, oh, yeah,
I'm just going to the BET Awards. Now You've got

folks showing up at the BET Awards dressed like, you know,
I don't know what this stuff is.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
You're not going to the Grammys with that same attitude.
When people go to the Grammys, they act like they're
going to the biggest moment of the life, like this
is it. So we have to approach our own things.
If it might not be to b ET Awards, but
whatever it is, which I think it should be. But
it doesn't have to be whatever it is. We need

to approach it like it is that type of quality,
because when we put that much interest into it, the
world will recognize it, and therefore we get an opportunity
to acknowledge and do all the things for all the
different genres and all the things that our people are
interested in. But when we are so quick to celebrate
and to hold up a hold so high something that's

been created by somebody else that made their definition of
what it should be, then we're beholding to their standards.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
So I agree with that. I don't know first of all.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Yes, Mahisha Deelinger of Curls of.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
Curls, she's amazing just what she's done, you know, and
I know she's inspired so many others to do the same.
So continue to do what you do, Queen. We appreciate you.
Another great episode with tm my. You know what I'm saying, formally,
three politicians, new new name.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
My song information to marriage could say my whole government email. No,
but that's not in the title. The title is my song.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
It's not oh, it's not you, it's Tamika and my songs.
So we'll get into that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
I'm not gonna always be right to me, is not
gonna always be wrong. We're both always and I mean
always that.

Speaker 3 (01:21:42):
Please check out the.

Speaker 5 (01:21:54):
Video version of t M every single Wednesday on I
Woman dot TV.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
That's how we are on me
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