The Emotional Toll of Incarceration and Loss

In this episode of TMI  hosts Tamika D. Mallory and Mysonne discuss the importance of supporting Black-owned brands like Actively Black, while reflecting on personal experiences with brands that have disrespected the Black community such as LuLu Lemon. Later in the episode, they interview Robert "Ricks" Brooks' father, who shares his grief and the impact of his son's death on their community. The conversation emphasizes the need for accountability in the justice system and the hope for change through community support and personal growth. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tamika D.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Mallory and the ship Boy my Son in general.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are your host of t M.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, motivation and.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Inspiration name New Energy. What's going on, my son, Lennon.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
I'm okay today.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
Good.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
You know, it's a beautiful day. I got my actively
Black on the gym.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
You know, at this point everybody should know what that
actively black is the thing.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, this is the best. This is the best sports
way that they have. Absolutely quality. Look, this is like
the winner.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
You got to lift it up.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
So the people, you know, you gotta see this because
it got it got.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
The wind.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Some of that.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
This is a whole They got a thing going on
actively Black.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
So no, I mean and for black people, black women,
but black people in general. It appears that we are
going to have to make sure that actively Black gets
really picked up. As the U Lululemon. Now, I am
a Lululemon girl. I wear Lululemon every single day of

(01:13):
the week if I don't have to go anywhere. After
I got rid of Nike, I went to Lululemon and
I literally wear Lululemon for everything, all day, every day.
And I wear Sweaty Betty. Shout out to my girl,
Lisha Keys, who told me, you gotta go check out
Sweaty Betty. And I like Sweaty Betty, so I wear

(01:35):
some of this stuff too. But Lululemon has stores everywhere,
so I'm always stopping in picking up this, that, and
the third. And they have leggings that I have on
today that I really love. But I cannot deny that
over the last year, I keep seeing videos that I'm
be honest with you, I have attempted to ignore it
because I don't want to know everything about everything all

(01:57):
the time. It is not fair that I have to
be one of these Yeah, I don't want to everybody
nobody else do people wearing Nike just going up and down.
They don't disrespect the Kyrie. Irvin, we took a stand.
You started it. I agreed with you, and I decided
to stop wearing Nike, which is fine. I don't even
miss it. At the time when we did it, I

(02:18):
was kind of like, damn, what are you gonna wear?
Because I had so many Nike tech suits excuse me,
every color from pink to gray to any special thing
they came out with. I have all the sneakers, everything
you could think of. We had it all because Nike
was the thing that I wore when I didn't wear Lululemon.

(02:39):
So I don't want to always have to know everything
and always have to get rid of my brands. I
don't wear Gucci. I got a whole thing of Gucci
that I haven't figured out what to do with it yet.
But I don't even know if I'm gonna give it.
I don't know what I'm gonna do. Maybe one day
a black person will become the head of Gucci and

(03:01):
will change my feelings about it. It's just sitting there.
It's too expensive right now for me to consider giving
it away. But I have it and I don't touch it.
I don't wear anything from Gucci except perfume. I do
wear that. I'm not gonna lie about that I do.
But I don't wear anything from Gucci. No clothes, no belts,
no nothing, no bags. Okay, then I gave up something else.

(03:26):
I don't know, but it's been a lot of things.
I don't even feel like going down my list today
because in case I decided to start going back to it,
I don't even want nobody to hold me. But it's
several brands that you waffle House people. Man, the waffle
House was packed somewhere that I was recently and it
and it just it wasn't so much that I wanted
the food, because I know that that's killer food, but

(03:48):
it just looked like it was popping at the waffle House.
But I bet you I went step out. It was
if there was nothing else to eat in the world.
I would never go on waffle House because of the
way that Shakisha Clemens was treated. So I got Kyrie,
I got Shakisha Clements, I got Blackface. I got so

(04:09):
many different things here, y'all come with the one thing
that I need in my life, which is my leggings
and my damn sweatshirts and T shirts and my sports bras.
I mean, what is happening here? But I cannot deny
I was about I've see. I was so busy talking
about myself. But over the last year, I keep seeing

(04:32):
videos popping up of black women being disrespected in Lululemen's stores.
Not to mention the owner of the owner right because
you know they love I saw the new or the CEO.
I can't say he's new, but I saw the CEO
responding to something that the original owner and founder said

(04:54):
and making it clear that they do not support the
statements that were made. And it was pretty much the owner, CEO,
owner whatever, saying that he did not he did not
create Lululemon for people that looked like me, for bodies

(05:14):
like mine. He created it basically for white girls, for
white women, And so you know, obviously that was crazy.
But then when the CEO slash whatever. I don't know
if he's the CEO, a new CEO or has been
a CEO, because I didn't look into it that deeply.
But when I saw him talking about their values and

(05:35):
how the brand is for everybody, and that they didn't
support those words, I'm like, all right, I ain't getting
in this one. Y'all take on this fight. I'm not
getting in this fight. But then I saw a video
the other day that I think Bev Smith commented on
somebody someone sent it to me Mindaventoya, But this black
girl was being accused of stealing a hat even though

(05:58):
she had spent six hundred dollars. Now, by the way,
Lululemon is mad expensive. I'm not even gonna lie to you,
but it's good quality so whatever, she spent six hundred
dollars and they were still trying to say she stole
a hat. And this happened in New York City Police officers.
NYPD was in there, one disrespectful ass white cop. A
woman was in there encountering, you know, going back and

(06:20):
forth with the woman. She felt super disrespected. My heart
was broken, she was embarrassed. It was just wrong. And
then there have been other incidents. Then I saw a
group of African women who clearly have gone through some
other type of incident talking about them having to disassociate
themselves with lululemen also. And as I start to see
all of that, I'm saying to myself, I don't think

(06:43):
I'm gonna be able to rock with the brand. I don't,
you know, I just I just I just don't think
I can do it. I don't think that I'm at
a place where I'm gonna get rid of what I
already have, because I literally mean I already got rid
of all my Nike stuff, and this is my Pilates clothes.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Out here we are are trying to tell you actively.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Well, so now I have a new side of my
dresser that is getting filled up with Actively Black stuff.
The guys sent me some of the material and then
I ordered something. Now I'm trying to get the summer colors,
so I you know, and by the way, the Actively

(07:29):
Black material is nice. It's all different types of material
and it's all quality, all quality. I've got this dress
that I cannot wait to wear that's so super cute.
So I think that I'm gonna have to say to
all the black women who are listening and black men,
if you are listening to me.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Shut up to my brother Actively Black.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Absolutely missus Smith, who is a wonderful individual. And I
think I have to say that I've decided that I'm
not going to be out here buying products that black
women are telling me that they feel disrespected when going
into those stores. And so I'm so excited because Actively
Black has my back. Look at that I want my

(08:14):
credit for this new thing. Actively Black has my back.
Let me tell you what my thought of the day,
because today we're going to air a guest interview that
is I want to say it's heartbreaking, but heartbreaking is

(08:34):
like it's like not the word. It's got to be
something like it's painful. It's painful, but I need a
word like rage, like fire up in my bones, like
I need a difference. No, I need not the and

(08:54):
not the gas, like in the theoretical sense, but like
really I feel like somebody is lighting me with gas.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's because when you listen to him, it feels like,
not only are we denied justice in humanity, but our
parents are feeling that right. Like you're like, it's not
supposed to be that your parents bury you, you know,
And when you listen to this man and you hear

(09:25):
the pain and just all of it, it's just.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
It's a lot.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, and so by for people who are listening. When
you talk about the parents, we're talking about the father
of Robert Brooks, who is the forty three year old
guy who was killed, beat to death, wild handcuffed in
Marcy Correctional Facility in upstate New York and his father,

(09:54):
Robert Rix joined us for a previously taped interview that
we're going to be playing today, so we'll be getting
to that. But I want to talk about my thought
of the day, and Robert Brooks feeds right into my
thought of the day. I don't know how we're supposed
to remain sane. I was out the other evening at

(10:16):
a nice party for a good friend at Brooklyn chop
House and everybody's having a good time, and I love that.
I mean, the music was so good. The DJ, he
would be my DJ for the rest of my life.
I got like five gonna be my DJs for the
rest of my life every party. It's so sad that
now I have three DJs at almost every party because

(10:40):
I love them all as something different. And he was
so good. He was bringing a live songs in me
that I was like, I ain't hear that in a
long time, or I definitely didn't hear it in combination
with that, And that's what I like about. You know,
my sister and I think that we're DJs. So Sharon
believe that she could do it herself if given the turntables,

(11:04):
because she knows transition. I can't stand a DJ that
does not know how to transition into the same vibe
and take you on a ride.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
A lot of them, I think a new thing is
that they don't try to give you a seamless transition.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think they try to just.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Give you the popping song.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, they don't like it. Used to be like that
was the thing, like you wanted. You wanted to keep
a vibe and you wanted to keep Now they.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
Just give you the song. It could be.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Reggae right, anything and like messing me up. But this
guy was so good and so for a while I
was escaping all the things because on my way to
the event, I was watching, as I'm doing every second
of the day, my TV on any news station that's
showing the devastation that's happening in California. Not to mention

(11:57):
that Candice Grace, miss Diddy, who's always gonna be Diddy
to us. I've been on the phone with her and Lindsay,
our other dear sister, literally by the minute, calling every minute,
where are you? What's happening? They're dealing with smoke inhalation.
Lindsey evacuated. Did he tried to stay for as long
as possible, but then the smoke started getting into her

(12:19):
lungs and it started getting closer and she could literally
while she was out at the store, you could see
she was literally showing me where the smoke was, and
it was it's so many people, Vlicia Kelly Coleman. I'm
just checking on people, calling people, trying to see what's
happening to my friends, checking on Jada, checking on Trish,
checking on all these different people. MC light that in

(12:42):
and of itself, even though I'm not in California, even
though you're not in California, even though most of us
the rest of the world is not in California, the
stress of your friends being there and you trying to
check on them and be a support system is in
of itself a lot of stress, and then not more

(13:02):
than distress that they are going through, which also hurts.
At the same time, when I talk to Linda in
the same day that I'm going out to this event,
I talk to Linda and she's telling me about babies
freezing in Palestine, literally freezing to death. She's telling me
about the stress that is being caused on elderly people

(13:26):
who live here in the States watching what's happening there.
It's all too much. It's too much, people having heart attacks,
all types of things happen. And we do this every
other day. We share stories about the stress and all
the commotion that's going on inside of us. So in
this same day I listen to that. We also we

(13:49):
also taped, excuse me, we also taped mister Rick's the
same day. So I got Robert Brooks Linda talking to
me about the Palestinian struggle, the stuff we already deal with,
we already know about. It's a thing, a thing, a
thing and a thing. And then on top of that,
worrying like hell about people who are suffering in California.

(14:11):
Trey is out there trade of truth. He's out there
doing what he does, and I don't see no damn
mask on his face. So I'm mad about that too.
And I'm now I'm in this place and everybody is
like oundstanding girl, you knocked me out, And I'm happy,
But then it just occurs to me, like.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
You shouldn't even be happy.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
What are we doing?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Were living in We're living in surreal times, were living
in you know, uncharted water. I don't think there's been
a generation at Delt with the levels of just difficulty
at one time. I mean in a long time. You know,
there probably has been a generation, you know, because we
look back to slavery, so we know that there was

(14:55):
times that were bad.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
But when we look at this now, I think.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
In our no, but you there was times that was bad,
but everything happening everywhere wasn't being televisioned what.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, that's what. I think, that's what.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
And the social You got the TV on and the
phone in your hand all at the.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Same time, too much, And these kids are doing both.
They're playing games. My son's is on the game, they're
on YouTube about the game, and then they're watching the game,
and I'm like, yeah, it's not too much for you
at one time.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
So it's like we're.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Getting all this information stimulation.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
You're getting war, you're getting fire, you're getting beating the jail,
you're getting somebody shot, somebody, kids shot.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
In the streets, and a fourteen year old stabbed to
death in the Bronx. Then it was a fire in
the Bronx, just like the day before, and there was
the main water main break and the sewage was out
in the street of your area. I mean, all of
this stuff going on, not to mention people texting, Hey,
you got fifty dollars that I can hold because I'm

(16:00):
going through this. And then you got your parents that
you want to you know, are they okay? You know,
you got your children, you got your grandchild. It's a lot,
and I just don't know how we're supposed to remain
sane and if you're anything like us. You're also watching
American politics, right I was yesterday. I saw that one

(16:21):
of these people, and I wouldn't dare give whoever it
is enough of my time to go read up on
what his name is. I don't care he's about to
be confirmed or they are trying to get him confirmed
for something that eventually I'm gonna have to know what
his name is, but I can't tell you it is
anyway he's talking about. He wants to see all the

(16:44):
monuments restored, all of the monuments of these people that
have been taken down because they were warlords or war
excuse me, warlords, or they held enslaved people, they raped people,
they raped black people, black women, they did some of
the most disgusting acts against humanity. And he's and they

(17:08):
and these statues were removed because they do not or
they should not represent American values and where we are today.
Not to say that it doesn't represent the America that
we've always been, but the direction, there's nothing for us.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
To be celebrating.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
You know, when we look at when we look at
those statues that were taking down, you look at the
history of those individuals, they weren't something to celebrate, you know,
especially if we if we're true to who we say
we are in America today, we don't we don't have
those values or we shouldn't have those values.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
But then it depends on who's holding the keys, because
if the people in power, if the if those values
represent the people in power, then they want to make
sure that their monuments are there to hold space for
what they believe and how they see people who look
like you and me. Now is other people in the

(18:03):
world that if I bought this up, they'd be like,
first of all, I don't even know that the monuments
got removed because they just don't pay attention. But we
are not like that. And so I'm listening and paying
attention as we begin to see the unfolding of America.
And it is very disheartening. And I sat just this

(18:24):
week and attended the Martin Luther King celebration at the
Department of Justice, which coupled as the end of Kristen
Clark's era there as the Assistant Attorney General of the
Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice. This was
her last These are her last days. Christen is my

(18:46):
friend and for the last four years, while she has
been in her position, I have. While we've still worked
together on cases, She's kept all of us up to
day as to the the status of some of the
civil rights cases that we are definitely behind, certainly Breonna Taylor.
So I'm not going to say we don't talk, because

(19:08):
that would be the biggest lie ever. But I tried
to play it cool with her because when she was
going through her confirmation hearings, I was one of the
people that was brought up as someone that they grilled
her over while calling me whatever whatever they came up
with that day, and they were trying to make the

(19:29):
case that her allegiance and support to certain people made
her problematic, and I was one of the people that
they brought up. This woman is a consummate professional. She
is a true believer in justice. She has a resume
of fighting for black people and other marginalized communities for
a long time. She is amazing. She's sweet, she's strong,

(19:49):
she's courageous, she's bold, she's all the things. And she
deserved that position. And when she got in her position,
she went to work immediately, and we have witnessed as
a result. It's a pale comparison. Let's put William barrs
that who was the attorney general under Trump, all the
Trump people, all y'all Trump people that tell us that

(20:11):
we're bugging and that it's not what you think. Let's
put William Barr's resume up against Kristen Clark's resume and
just make a comparison. This woman William Barr tell me
how many officers he was able to or that he
even cared to prosecute and get convictions and position police

(20:32):
departments with a consent decree, which meant that the federal
government would now have oversight and be involved in their
internal affairs to make sure that they're doing what they're
supposed to be doing and that they're not violating the
rights of the residents and the people that they're supposed
to be serving. That's the type of work that Kristin
Clark was doing and will continue to do until her

(20:55):
last second. Okay, between the consent to with Louisville, Kentucky
that just happened after the killing of Breonna Taylor. They
went in there, they did the research and they found
many things. Many the report is we've had say Senator
now Katurahran as well as Attorney Lanita Baker and City

(21:17):
councilwoman Shamika Paris. Right, we already had them on. They
talked about the long laundry list of things that the
Department of Justice found. Also Tyree Nichols. Right, we see
prosecution happening there where they stepped right in and said
there's a federal charge that needs to be filed against
these officers who beat Tyrie Nichols to death. Brianna Taylor,

(21:40):
after all the shit that we went through for four years,
she was able Kristen Clark and her team to secure
a conviction against the officer one of the officers who
fired into Breonna Taylor's house and the apartment's next door
on that evening, George Floyd. I could go on, Ahmad Rbrey.

(22:02):
She did the work. And to know that she is
now leaving her position, young and vibrant, when she could
have continued to make change is very difficult. And so
all I'm saying is it's very difficult to keep your
mind in any positive place. I mean, your health is there,

(22:22):
and you thank God for the good things and the
blessings all around you, but you cannot ignore that the
world has some deep, deep, deep serious issues. So I'm
just telling you I find it hard at this time
not to have to stop several times in a day
and take deep breaths.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
WUSA.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Well, you know, sometimes you just got to take deep
reps and we you know, I found myself doing it
a lot. Like I told you weeks ago, I found
myself like at a crossroad where I was just confused.
I didn't feel like it was working. I didn't feel
like the things were doing was mattering. It just felt
like the world was like turning in a direction. I
had to just chill with myself and just get deep

(23:01):
in my own thoughts and then rejuvenate my energy.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
So I think sometimes you gotta take a deep breath,
you do. You know, you gotta look at where we
are in the world. You gotta make decisions, and you
just got to say what what does it mean to me?

Speaker 5 (23:15):
Right?

Speaker 2 (23:15):
You know what I'm saying, Like, what am I willing
to do? Is am I going to be a spectator?
Am I just gonna fall back? Do I have the
energy to continue?

Speaker 3 (23:23):
You know?

Speaker 2 (23:23):
What is God saying to me? And sometimes you just
gotta to hear God, you do, it's just got to
hear God.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
I think that's where we are is just having to
listen to God because we're gonna have to act at
some point. So I think that, uh, for today, we
should just get into our interview. I think that you know,
what we discussed with uh, mister Ricks is so powerful
that we shouldn't belabor it. I know that for me,

(23:51):
I'm committed to whatever it is that we need to
do to fight, not just for Robert Brooks, but because
I know or a fact that there are many people
who are incarcerated hoping that this situation will spark some
type of movement to help them with their situation. When
I listen to people like our sister Lucinda Cross talk

(24:15):
about her experience, I listen to you talk about your experience.
I've not been incarcerated for any long period of time,
but what I do know is that what you all
describe and then what we see on video, we saw
it in Parchment, we saw it in the Brooklyn Detention Center,
and we've seen it in other places. My brother Derek,

(24:36):
when he talks about his experiences, it's inhumane and we
should have a system. We should have a system where
you are held accountable somehow, but certainly not a system
where people are able to use their either racial bias,
or their ignorance, or their whatever, their freakiness, whatever they

(25:00):
got going on, and inflicted upon people who are in prison.
I just don't think that's right.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
So and I agree one hundred percent agree with you.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
You know, the system is terrible, and this situation just
highlights it. You know, Unfortunately, you very rarely get to
see visuals of what goes on inside of prisons because
before there was no cameras inside of prison, so they
could do what they want. So I'm definitely happy for
the edition of the body cams that gave us the

(25:33):
opportunity to see what's happening, so, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
The fact that the body cam had an additional.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Bash up that they didn't even realize, that.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
They didn't even know was taping them. That's good for
their asses, that's right, all right. So you know, we
have a guest here with us today. We just told
you about this story. Most of you who are followers
of my son or me, and certainly followers of our

(26:02):
podcasts and anything that we do, you know how serious
it is to us to hold law enforcement accountable for
the corruption that exists in our system. So many of
you have been heartbroken over the story of Robert Brooks,
and after a lot of work with community, so many

(26:26):
different individuals who have been wrapping their arms around mister
Brook's family, we finally have an opportunity to speak with
his family and specifically his father, Robert Ricks. Many of
you may have seen mister Ricks at a rally in

(26:46):
New York City or have heard him on a number
of media outlets, and today, mister Ricks, I just want
to thank you so much for taking the time to
come to TMI, to our podcast so that we can
help our audience to have more of an understanding about
what has happened, where this situation currently stands, and moreover,

(27:11):
what you need from us from the larger community to
help to support you in getting justice for your son,
Robert Brooks. And so I guess we can really kind
of just kick it off by first of all asking
you with all that has been happening. I know it's
always a daunting question, how are you, how is your family?

(27:33):
And also I don't believe you are a New York resident,
so your community one here in New York that is hurting.
But I'm sure wherever you live there are a number
of individuals who are concerned as well for your well
being and the well being of your family.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
So thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 6 (27:50):
Definitely that, and thank you all so much for having
me in providing me with this opportunity. Absolutely correct. There's
a lot of a lot of pain, a lot of discomfort,
a lot of questions, a lot of fears, a lot

(28:10):
of uncertainty in our community because you don't you don't
just see something like this, and then if you have
someone that's incarcerated, not wonder is this going to happen
to your son, or your daughter, or your mother or
a father.

Speaker 5 (28:29):
Today. I close my eyes.

Speaker 6 (28:31):
Anytime I close my eyes, I see my son in
the body bag. That's that's what I see when I
close my eyes. So you can imagine the discomfort that's
associated with that. My son had his own set of
friends and his own people that he associated with.

Speaker 5 (28:55):
I am.

Speaker 6 (28:57):
I have a youth organization called Interest Inspiring Boys and Girls,
and my goal for the last thirty two years has
been to touch and change young lives. That's what I do.
That's what I did. That's not a job for me,
it's a it's a calling. And for this to happen
to my son.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
It really it really hit hard. It really hit hard
in the community.

Speaker 6 (29:27):
So I say that to say that that, yeah, there's
a lot of there's a lot of pain.

Speaker 5 (29:33):
There's a lot of pain.

Speaker 6 (29:35):
And more so, there's a lot of questions. But I
generally answer the question because the question is why what
did he do to provoke this this? And my response
is that there is nothing he could have done to

(29:55):
provoke that type of evil being bestowed on him, Nothing
he could have done to warrant that. But I know
my son, and so he wasn't the I'm going to
jail and I'm gonna lift weights and I'm gonna do
push ups, and I'm gonna pump iron and I'm gonna
be rough and tough. He wasn't like that in the

(30:17):
and in jail, and he wasn't like that in the streets.
He was very much loved, very much respected. He was
but I definitely wasn't perfect. But but he was a
He was a He was a loving, caring person, took
care of his kids and loved his family and hung out.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
And yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I could I could hear the pain in your voice,
mister Ricks. You know, I often asked in this situation.
How were you notified about what happened to your son?

Speaker 6 (30:53):
Initially they notified my son's son, my grandson mm hmmm,
and then my grandson notified his grandmother, and then the
grandmother my son's mother notified me. So she called me

(31:15):
and I was like, I was in the middle of
doing a creative writing class with my kids, and she said,
I need to speak to you. And I'm like, what's
going on, Mary? And she said, no, I need to
speak to you in person. And so I know when
she says something like that, it must be something big.
And I know it was concerning my son because most
of the time wouldn't hearn I converse in reference to him,

(31:37):
And so I went over to a house and she
told me, and it was, it was, it was. It
was really hard to believe, just because because he wasn't there.
You know what I'm saying. He wasn't there. He wasn't
He wasn't that type of person. And the many, many,
many conversations him and I had, the thing he would

(31:59):
always say is, Dad, I'm standing out the way I'm
standing out the way I'm trying to get home. You know,
I want to make this negative into a positive. I'm
writing you know, I'm taking sign language classes, I'm taking
horticulture classes. I got my ged. You know, I want
to do what you do. I want to touch young lives.

(32:21):
I'm writing a book about you know, how do you
how do you work with? Way were kids for parents?
So why or how this happened to him? Just it
just it just floors me.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
So I hope I.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
Answered your question. How much time did he have left
in a twelve year sentence?

Speaker 6 (32:42):
In his twelve year sentence, he was coming up on
his eighth year, so he would have been home in
a year. So he had did almost seven years. He
would have been home in a little over a year.

Speaker 5 (32:56):
So that's.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
But that also makes it that also makes it really
really unfortunate that he served eight years and like you said,
he would have been home and his life was taken
before he had the chance to do so. And you know,
I don't want to divert this conversation because we understand

(33:20):
that what happens in the care of professionals is one area,
and that's what we're talking about right now.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
These are people who are paid to do.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
A job, and it is not to become the executioner
of anyone who is incarcerated. Their job is actually the
safety of incarcerated individuals and everyone who is inside of
those buildings and in those compounds and facilities.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
But I think that, especially.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Being a woman, as part of this conversation, I would
be remiss not to mention that there are many people
who know about some of the details, and we're not
going to get into them today. That he had been
incarcerated for a violent crime. And again I don't want

(34:12):
to debate that because we're talking about something very specific.
And the one thing I know is that the media,
as well as elected officials and others, they love to
divert the conversation to other things on purpose to avoid
the thing that's right here. But when I hear you
say eight years he served, one would have to also

(34:37):
acknowledge that that is a long time for a person
to be incarcerated. Where we would hope if, as you're saying,
he's telling you, I'm staying out the way, I'm trying
to get home.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I want to be more like you and do these things.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
So for anybody who's out there who may have a question,
for eight years he served time for a crime that
he was convicted of, and sentenced for and after eight
years of being incarcerated, even he deserves to be able
to return to society, to pick up where he left off,
and to make the significant changes in his life. So

(35:13):
I'm unwilling to just for anybody who's listening, you're not saying.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
This, mister Riggs. I'm speaking for myself.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
I'm not here to debate that back and forth, because
a man or woman who serves that amount of time
has every single right to be able to make good
on anything that they may have done in previous years
of their lives, their life, and I want you to
please walk with that, you know, to walk with that
that you don't have to explain that because you weren't

(35:42):
You weren't there, you're not involved in all of that.
But you do know that your son's life was taken
by people who have a responsibility to protect him and
anyone else that's in that in these facilities.

Speaker 6 (35:55):
Definitely, Definitely, I'm of the mindset that you can't teach
where you do what you don't know, and you can't
leave where you don't go. I'm a member of the
Second Chance Club some of the same one Way's dead
ends and do not enters that my son walked down,
I walk down. I came out of of I came

(36:23):
through those situations, in those circumstances a much better man,
a much better man. Had I not gone through the
things that I've gone through, I wouldn't be as effective
as I am working with young people. I wouldn't have
a testimony and a story to tell them that makes
them understand that you ain't seen nothing that I haven't seen,

(36:46):
you haven't done anything that I haven't done, and you
can be all that I am and more. My son
was sentenced to twelve years. He wasn't given a life sentence,
he wasn't given a sentence of execution. He was given

(37:08):
a sentence of twelve years. He had done eight He
was scheduled to come home the next year, and he
was coming home as a member of the Second Chance Club.
And I put things in place so that he would
have opportunities once he got here to take care of
himself and to impart the information, impart the experiences that

(37:32):
he had to the commun kids in the community, telling
them that they don't have to go down that road
that he's he's he's done the research form and this
is where it's going to end him up. So a
little just a little background, like the relationship that he

(37:56):
was in. That relationship started when they was fifteen years old.
They have been together since they was fifteen years old.
When he went in jail, he was thirty three. Today,
she came to his repast. She hugged his mother, She

(38:18):
hugged me. She told me she loved me. She told
me that she loved him.

Speaker 5 (38:26):
So no to her.

Speaker 6 (38:33):
But but there was mitigating circumstances that brought that about.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
So you don't have to, you don't have to get
into that today. You don't have to. But we would
like to know more about your son, Okay, just who
he was.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
And I know you mentioned that he faced some challenges
that people really don't know about. While there are many
media outlets that have told the story about what happened in.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
That jail, they don't know him.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
And no one can tell the story of Robert Books
the way that his family can.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
So we love to hear more from you about that.

Speaker 6 (39:17):
Okay, Well, he was. He was a well liked, very
respectful young man and an adult. He he loved music,
he loved writing, he loved his sons, he loved his family.

(39:41):
Him and I have done book by giveaways together, we
have done you socials together. I'm also a playwright, so
we've done stage productions together. He was a very loving, caring, insightful,

(40:12):
intelligent young man. Yeah, mm hmm. That's that's that's that's
the best way that that I can can explain who
he was.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
So as as of now, you know, I don't believe,
and you know I don't. I haven't heard anything. The
officers have not been charged for the murder of yourself.
H What do you think about that?

Speaker 5 (40:48):
I think that it's a process.

Speaker 6 (40:53):
You know, you're talking about a system that it's struck
shirt and designed for a certain class.

Speaker 5 (41:06):
Of people to win.

Speaker 6 (41:08):
And then you're talking about a system that was put
in play to keep a certain class of people in place.
So for me to think that these officers are going

(41:33):
to commit this atrocity and then right away they're going
to be handcuffed and put in the prison. In today's society,
the way things is, the way thing is structured, the
way things is set up, and has been set up
like that ever since we got off the boat over here.
I'm not even I was not even under the impression

(41:55):
that that might happen like that. What I am hoping
is that at the end of the day, because of
the pressure that the community is going to put on
the government, law enforcement, the community, that justice will be done.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (42:15):
That's that's that's my hope, that's my prayer.

Speaker 6 (42:18):
M HM.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
And I and I and I definitely agree that it
definitely has to be pressure. You are a lot more
you give a lot more on what I say, Grace,
than I would, you know, in this situation, in just
any situation, because it's it's not okay that we have
to accept that the system won't work for us the

(42:41):
way it works against us, right because we know that
had one of us committed that we'd be in jail,
we'd be under the jail we've been starting trial last right,
We we know that. And I'm not okay with understanding
knowing that the system is set up for those who
are paid to protect and care, custody and control that

(43:05):
they can take our lives and and and there's no
real retribution, there's no real consequences and repercussions for that.
So I share the fact I want that to happen,
but I think it should happen in a timely manner.
I don't think it should take six months for someone

(43:26):
to look at that situation because, like you said, there's
there's no justification, there's no reasoning for why he was
handcuffed and he was being beaten like that by those officers.
And at least you know, I don't mind us having
to wait for the trial to start. I don't mind
them having to go through the hearings, but those officers

(43:48):
should be trialed, I mean, should be charged immediately, right right,
I agree.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
With you about that. I agree, Yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I was just gonna say I agree with you about that,
and I think both of you are right. We know
the realities versus what we know it should be, and
every time that we engage in one of these unfortunate situations,
we have to be fighting for the immediate as well
as a long term solution to address these things. Because

(44:21):
the reason why these officers were able to or the
reason why they have not been charged at this point,
is because people do.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Not respect that.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Our communities will in fact elect different people if we
don't like those who are who should be responsible for this.
So now you have a special prosecutor who has been
assigned to deal with this issue. We have to make
it very clear that in the next election cycle, if
you have not handled this situation properly, you will be

(44:55):
voted out of office. The governor needs to be held responsible.
I've had a few conversations with the Attorney General, and
you know, have understood some of the reasons why she
could not participate in this particular case. But nonetheless, none
of those things should be an excuse for why we
have not seen something happen here to hold these police officers,

(45:18):
these correction officers, excuse me, accountable. Also, we know that
if this had been a group of black male or
black male and female officers who did this to Robert.

Speaker 4 (45:32):
Brooks, they would have been charged.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
We saw that in Memphis, Tennessee with Tyree Nichols, where
you know Attorney Ben Crump, who we worked very closely with,
was involved in that situation. Justice just that fas they
were ready to put those offices in jail, they pert
walked them. And that was because it was on video.
And they have no problem saying when the blacks kill

(45:57):
the blacks, you know, we'll hold them accountable. But these
these are a group of white men who are in
the state closer to upstate area where those offices believe
that they have unmitigated ability to do anything that they
want to do. And so I agree with both of you.
We know the realities, but we also need to make

(46:19):
sure we paint the picture for our listening.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Audience and beyond that.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Part of the issue here is that we have to
turn up the value and make it clear that what
has happened here is not acceptable and that there will
be political consequences if this is not addressed properly.

Speaker 6 (46:39):
I agree as well. However, I'm a realist. I'm a realist.
The reality is is that is that we don't live
in a jest society, and oftentimes we're loyal to a

(47:00):
system that knows no loyalty. So I'm just not I don't.
I don't, I don't hold on to to thoughts or
ideas that I know are are just far beyond what

(47:22):
is real and what's like right here and what's happening
and what I see every day, what I.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
What.

Speaker 6 (47:34):
A phrase that I often use is that the power
conceives nothing without a demand, which was said by Frederick Douglas.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
And so.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
We have to demand it, and not just demanded today,
but demand it today and demanded tomorrow we have to
work together collectively to change it, because I mean, like
that was some real bold stuff. I mean that was
like that's like like like I don't care nothing about you.

(48:14):
There is nothing you can do. You're absolutely powerless over
me and my and what I.

Speaker 5 (48:19):
Do as a group.

Speaker 6 (48:24):
For people, some kind of way we have allowed people
to think or to believe that that's okay.

Speaker 5 (48:33):
And until.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I just but how did it make you feel when
you first seen that video? How did you feel when
you saw it?

Speaker 5 (48:43):
What I was saying is that.

Speaker 6 (48:48):
Until we're until until we're able to fight, I mean real,
really fight, really combine our resources, refine our talents, and
work towards whatever, work towards any any specific goal, any
specific need, any specific desire that that we need or

(49:13):
want as a race of people, Things like this is
going to continue to happen. So until we get there,
I'm not going to I'm not going to believe that
anything different is going to happen.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
I don't.

Speaker 6 (49:28):
I don't the level of justice that I think is
going to come as a result of this, I don't
think it's going to be comparable to what would have
happened the black officers would have would have would have
if this would have happened to black officers, would have
perpetrated this on another black man or uh.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
A European you.

Speaker 6 (49:47):
I don't. I don't believe that. I tell my kids
every day that that if anything is going to change,
we're going to change it. I don't think that we
we have to run down the streets and bus windows
and loot and turn over police cars and set fires.

(50:08):
I don't believe we have to do that. I believe
that as a people, we have to make a decision
and we can change some stuff. If we decide not
to go to work, America will falter. If we decide
not to go to shopping at Walmarts or Wegmans or
any of these major stores, America will falter. So until

(50:30):
we collectively decide that we are going to make a
change in our community, for ourselves, for our community, for
our kids, for our grandkids, then things are going to
be This is going to be business as usual.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
This is a wee thing.

Speaker 6 (50:48):
So so yeah, that's that's those are my Feelingsson.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Asked you, how did you feel when you saw that video?
And I love to hear what were the conversations that
the authorities had with you after you were you know,
after you engage with them.

Speaker 6 (51:12):
The basically the conversation was that we're going to do
everything within our power to assure the fact that justice
is served. I hold on to that idea because of

(51:32):
one of the gentlemen that I spoke to. I believe
that that some justice will be served. But after watching
that video, it's hard for me to buy into anything
that anyone in their power structure says.

Speaker 5 (51:50):
I don't. I'll believe it when I see it.

Speaker 6 (51:53):
Watching that video was that was That's that's evil, that's
you're evil. That's evil from the gates of hell. Nobody.
I mean, I couldn't. I couldn't do that to somebody
that was trying to take my life. Once I got
the gun out their hand or the knife out of
their hand, I couldn't do that. I couldn't stop them

(52:14):
in the growing beat them with a shoe. That's evil,
That's what That's how I felt. I felt like a
bunch of evil men were attacking my child like wild animals,
like wolves.

Speaker 5 (52:28):
That's how I felt.

Speaker 6 (52:29):
And I couldn't do nothing to protect him. I couldn't
protect him I couldn't stop them.

Speaker 5 (52:36):
That's how I felt. I felt powerless.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
That's a lot, man, because I can I can only
imagine that, you know, having three sons, and I wouldn't
I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I couldn't watch that
happen to myself. I would want to do anything in
my power. And I know that's what you were thinking
to yourself. So you know, hand, that was a lot.

Speaker 6 (53:02):
It was, it was, and it still is today. It
still is a lot today. The other I mean, at
any given time, I just break down because yet, by
the case of God, there goes I, you know, And
and there's hundreds of thousands of our mothers, fathers, sons

(53:26):
and daughters caught up in this system, a system that
makes it inevitable that some of them will go there.
It's inevitable the way the system is structured is structured
for them.

Speaker 5 (53:40):
To go there.

Speaker 6 (53:42):
Today it's it's it's it's organized slavery, you know.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
So I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
It's it's not being formally incarcerated. I tell people all
the time, and I've been having this conversation as relate
that this is not an isolated incident This is not
something that happens rarely. You know, police officers who believe
they are I mean correction officers who believe they are
above the law do this to prisoners all the time.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
And then some of them are black, yes, right, because
we said that, you know, we talked about if it
had been black.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
Oh, it is black officers as well.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
They are doing it, they just weren't on camera in
this particular situation, right right, right, And.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
The reality is it happens a lot. So unfortunately, you know,
mister Brooks lost his life and he and we've seen
this on cam. But there are a lot of prisoners
who are beat by officers who want to impose their
will every day and they're thrown into sales and told

(54:59):
that the they're lying. You know, they starved themselves. They
haven't getting not given shots be to I get emails
every day regularly from prisoners who experienced this, you know,
and they not believed. So, you know, unfortunately, mister Brooks
lost his life. But hopefully this right here can bring

(55:19):
some change to destructure in the system, and it can
bring accountability and make sure that no one else receives.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
This kind of treatment.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
You know, mister Riggs. I think also what's important to
say here is that you seem to be more than
capable of helping to take on this fight, and oftentimes
we run into families that, for different reasons, they're not
prepared nor do they want to have to be on

(55:51):
the front lines to bring awareness to anything other than
specifically what happened to their child. But listening to you,
I'm pretty confident that we all, working together, can truly
strategize on what it looks like to use your son's
situation as a catalyst for change across this state. And ultimately,

(56:16):
they say, what happens in New York, everyone wants to copy.
We need to make that happen across this country as well.
Where are you from originally or now now?

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Like, where are you located?

Speaker 6 (56:31):
I'm in Rochester, New York, Okay, born in Oppa Laca, Alabama,
So that's Southern blood in me.

Speaker 5 (56:39):
And I I didn't. I didn't.

Speaker 6 (56:43):
I didn't want this fight. I didn't ask for this fight.
At one point because of just some other situations and
circumstances around family, I had decided that I wasn't going
to take on this fight. But I have a god

(57:06):
and a god and my fight that this this is
your fight. My grandson told me that this is your platform.
Go get justice from my dad. Having said that, I'm
locked and loaded, I'm ready. I don't I don't know

(57:28):
I know how to advocate for young people. I've gone
to Aubany to advocate for more funding for inner city schools.
You know, I've marched with Rosemary Rivera for a fair
fair wages. But most of my work has been in

(57:51):
advocating for for young people. That has been my calling
and the reason why that our calling is because I
know that a lot of times our kids are forced
to make decisions when they're constitutionally incapable of making good decisions,

(58:16):
and sometimes those decisions put their lives on a trajectory
that they have absolutely that it would take a divine
intervention for them not to end up with a record.
And so I try to get them as young as
I possibly can get them, and I try to pour
into him as much and as often as I possibly
can to let them know that somebody loves them, that

(58:40):
somebody's cares, that you have other options. But I'm asking
I'm sending out a so os help me fight this fight,
but not just dis fight, because this is the end
of the road.

Speaker 5 (58:56):
The end of the road is when.

Speaker 6 (58:57):
Our kids receive a felony, have felony on stake for
across their forehead and they're trying to find a job.

Speaker 5 (59:04):
That's the end of the road, well almost the end
of the road. Help me stop it from getting there.
Let's fight this fight, and then let's fight the fight
to prevent it. I know, with me, I just not
even for a traffic ticket. But in order for.

Speaker 6 (59:25):
Me not to do that, I had to have people
that was loving me, that was caring for me, that
was supporting me, that was putting their foot of my
butt when I was wrong, and standing beside me when
I was right or when I was wrong.

Speaker 5 (59:39):
This is a this is a this is a.

Speaker 6 (59:43):
This is a black thing. And once we get up,
then there is no stopping us. Once we get up,
it'll stop.

Speaker 5 (59:52):
It'll stop. They'll stop beating our kids.

Speaker 6 (59:54):
Do you know how many parents, how many mothers have
sent me emails and text messages talking about what people
have done to their son. How I've had two people
call me and told me their.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
Kids just disappear. They don't have no idea where they're
at in the system. So have you and my son?
Have you received my son?

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Have you received a lot of calls up with folks
from Marsie specifically because we have we've been receiving calls
from people who have had specific issues in Marcie Correctional Facility.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Have you received that as well?

Speaker 6 (01:00:30):
I've received quite a few Facebook messages. I had a
young man sent me a Facebook message the other day
that was like, I did time with your son. I
don't know how this happened to him. He used to
cook for the whole rock you know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
I don't. I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:00:47):
I don't know how this happened to him because that
wasn't who he was. So so yes to answer your question, Yes, thank.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
You, mister Rix. We appreciate you for taking the time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I notice is not an easy, you know, conversation to have,
and then you're having it every day and everybody's asking
you the same things, and but we appreciate you, and
we know that it's so important for us to tell
the story as well and not allow anyone else to
define for you your son's worth, uh and the outrageous

(01:01:22):
behavior of those individuals who took his life.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
And we also also, like I told you yesterday. Mister Ricks.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
You know, I'm here on the front lines with you
whatever you need, and you know, and however you're willing
to fight, I'll be right along with you.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
Unmute.

Speaker 6 (01:01:45):
Now, let's touch base offline. I welcome any help or
any support that I can get from from open like
a cotton line, cotton feels to Louisiana liquor steals. Come on,
let's fight, let's fight for change.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Thank you, you're very.

Speaker 6 (01:02:08):
Welcome, and again, thank you all so very much for
providing me with this opportunity.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
Absolutely, we'll be in touch, please do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
That was a very emotional, very passionate interview. You know,
I spoke to mister Ricks a couple of times, and
like you said, he seems like he's capable of this fight.
You know, he doesn't seem like he really wanted to
do it, but he seems like he's capable.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Yeah, you know, I heard him saying what we all know,
which is that we have to stand up on this
and not depend on other people to do right because
they're not going to if they can get away with it.
The reason why we probably haven't heard of any charges

(01:02:56):
against these offices yet is because they're in a position
in the state where they have people scared to challenge
them for any reason because of their political power. White
folks upstate who as you get closer and closer to
what is it Buffalo right, as you get into those areas,

(01:03:20):
there are people up there who are extremely racist. And
what we saw on that video are folks who come
from that. They come from the KKK mindset and therefore,
because the one thing about it is that they do
use their political power, and folks are trying to make

(01:03:42):
a calculation of the best way to approach this situation
where it does not tip the scales because they it's
not like there's a bunch of people upstate that's like, nah,
this is wrong and rallying for Robert Brooks.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
So they have to deal with the political calculation around
what they should do. And we should be saying that
you're making one calculation, but we've already calculated. And the
bottom line is we will not lay down a rollover
while this man was killed in the way that he
was and we all had an opportunity to see it.

(01:04:20):
And I think what you said today is perfect mice
that this is not a isolated or an isolated issue.
It is not an isolated incident. I talked about that
after George Floyd was killed in the speech that I
made in Minneapolis that ultimately went viral. I talk about
it in my book State of Emergency. It is not isolated.

(01:04:43):
This is happening every single day, and Robert Brooks unfortunately
lost his life and now or he was killed. He
didn't just lose his life, but he was killed, and
now we have a responsibility to make something of it.
I know I won't say anything else after this, and
you can take it from here, but I know there

(01:05:04):
are people out there who know. And I didn't want
to make his father feel like he came up here
to defend his son's honor because his son is not
the person responsible for the murder that took place on
December ninth or tenth, or whatever that date was. There
was We know who was responsible for that, and the
Department of Corrections has to correct it. However, I know

(01:05:30):
there are people who have a serious sensitivity to the
fact that he was involved in a violent crime and
he what the you know, we didn't ask his dad,
but what I read was that he stabbed a woman.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
That's a hard thing. For people.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
You have victims of domestic violence, violence in general. You
have women out here and advocates for women who wants
you harm a woman, a child. They throw you in
the trash and they don't ever, they don't care what
happens to you, because ultimately you have committed an act

(01:06:08):
that cannot be forgiven. So we know that. So I
don't want people to think we're scared to talk about
that or we're trying to ignore it. No, we're putting
it on front street. But what we know is that
this man served eight years eight years. And if you
can't go to jail for eight years and then come
back a changed individual, I don't know what the hell

(01:06:30):
we're doing.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
Then we should just get rid of jails.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
I just think for me, and the reality of the
situation is, I'm always an advocate against anything that happens
to women.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Right, And I think that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
If a man was convicted of a crime and he
was serving his time, then that man was supposed to
beild to serve his time, right, And those officers was
not the judge and the jury for that situation. You know,
the people that come home that murder daily, and we
have to work with them they have served their you know,

(01:07:06):
their debt to society, and they come home and they
did become valuable members of society, you know. And Robert
Brooks deserved after his rehabilitation, after his you know, his
the consequences for his actions, to come home, and those
officers shouldn't didn't have the right to take that from
So anybody who thinks otherwise, You're entitled.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
To your own opinion and your belief, but I don't.
There's no way or no justification for those officers killing
that men.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
Yeah, absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
And I hope that people will not allow others to
make them afraid, you know, to get involved and to
advocate because the all the reality is there are people
in prison who didn't commit the crime that they've.

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
Been accused of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
You know, I know I said I wasn't going to
say anything, but I think that's important. There are people
in prison that didn't even commit the crime that they've
been accused of and convicted of, and they are also
experiencing the same treatment. So what we should do is
have a system that holds people accountable. Fine, you are
locked away, you know, you should not be. I'm not

(01:08:13):
looking for you to be living in a house on
the prairie or any of that. We know the conditions
of these jails and what people have to experience.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Is hard enough.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
But no man nor woman should feel that they have
the right to do what we saw happened to that
man on camera at all.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
This is my other don't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
You know, it's a lot of people been talking, you
know about two people that I know really good, Kim
and Jim Jones, and you know, they've been going back
and forth, and I really don't I don't get it.
I don't get why they're going back and forth, right,
because the reason why I don't get it is because
the issues that they have are old issues, right. None
of them are talking about something happened the other day,

(01:08:56):
something happened new. These are friends who've been friends for
twenty us probably thirty almost thirty years, probably thirty plus years,
and now they're rehashing issues that they had twenty and
fifteen years ago that they talked about that everybody knows
about it, and it's coming back. So I don't really
get it. But what I do think, I think this

(01:09:16):
is a play, right. But these are two businessmen, right,
I think Cam and Jim are playing y'all.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
And they figured out how to move the algorithm.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
They figure out how to utilize social media because it's
the biggest thing everywhere. I believe that Jim is behind
the Justin Le boy or Justin La Boyle, however you
say his name.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
I think he's behind that podcast. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
This is the first show he comes out. He says
something about Cam. Cam comes right back, says something about him,
the same issues that they've been talking about for years.
Fifty cent fees into it. Jim's dropping music, he got
the Harlem remix, He's speaking about stuff on records. You know,
they both going back and forth. I think it was
a play. I think to me, Jim and them said you,

(01:10:00):
I'm about to do this podcast we're gonna talk about
because I know everybody want to hear about me and Cam.
Cam probably said something and he knows that Cam is
just as petty as he is. He gonna go back
and say something. And maces in the background not saying nothing,
eating popcorn.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
All of this is for the algorithm.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
I don't I do not believe that these these men,
at fifty years old, it's rehashing issues that they had
twenty and fifteen to twenty years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Did they speak about it?

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
And if they are, If they are this, I just
gave y'all the way out. Y'all should say we played
everybody now. You should put put.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Cam on a HALLM remix.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Cam should be on a HALLM remix because I just
seen he dropped a remix for it. Cam should be
on a Hallow remix. Y'all should be in Harlem because
Harlem need to stick together. Y'all faces of Harlem. Y'all
been doing this too long. I do not believe that
they really be. I just don't believe it. I don't
get it, and that's why I don't believe it because
it does. It just doesn't make sense at this stage
in both of their lives. They both doing They both

(01:11:00):
have you know, evolved in their careers. In their space,
they mental space, They doing big things. I do not
believe right now that these two brothers can I say
brothers and I use it for real. Brothers should really
be on Internet arguing, going back and forth with each other.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
So I'm giving y'all a way out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Y'all should come out, do the interview, do a video,
put cam on the remixer Harlem. Cam should be on
the remix of Harlem. Y'all should come out and say
we fool y'all, the algorithm gonna go crazy. Come out
to the new Dipset tour. Y'all go out and get money.
This does not make no sense, and that's why I
don't get it, and I need y'all to fix it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
That's it, Okay, that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Fix it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Get on the phone. I heard Mace saying that he
tried to get you on the phone. That might be
part of the plot too, but listen, let Mace fix it.
Let's fix it, bro. I want to see all three
of y'all in the room together. Y'all should do your
own podcast. Bring matter of fact, Kim, bring Jim on
the podcast and talk about it and squash it and
hug and shake hands. Y'all need to bury all of this.
I've been seeing this back and forth for years, and

(01:12:04):
I hate it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
I put they been doing this for years.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
They've been back and forth, and that's why it don't
make sense no more because all of the stuff that
they talk about we heard about before.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
It's not new this. None of this is new new.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
All of this it's old stuff, and they rehashit it
and they know that, y'all. They know that the internet
loves to see some type of turmoil. They love to
see beef and beef and beefing. And they just they
just tricked. The algorithms say, they're on every website. Everybody's
blowing up and they making money and I love it.
And that's what y'all need to do. And now come
out and tell them. We tricked, y'all and we're getting money.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
I wish I had something to add.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
You don't need to add that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
This all cam Mace, we got it, Jim, we got it.
We sold got it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
So with that said, that brings us to the end
of another episode. Please make sure you continue to make
us the number one podcast in the world. Let us
know who you want to see, let us know you
love us, let us know you hate us, let us
know anything. Follow us at TA My Underscore Show on
Instagram and tm my PC on YouTube. Follow us and

(01:13:08):
make sure you continue to make us.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
Number one, number one, number one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I'm not gonna always be right, Tamika d Maverage, not
gonna always be wrong, but we will both always and
I mean always be authentic peace.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
That's how we own it,