March 26, 2024 • 27 mins
A source from a mafia-connected family introduces a true crime podcaster to a KGB-trained sex spy. What could possibly go wrong?
Show Credits:
- Produced by Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeart Podcasts
- Host/Writer: Neil Strauss
- Guest: Aliia Roza
- Executive Producers: Neil Strauss, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey
- Lead Producer and Editor: Tristen Bankston
- Additional Editing: Miles Clark and Christian Brown
- Supervising Producer: Tracy Kaplan
- Consultants: Nooshin Valizadeh, Chelsey Goodan and Jaime Albright
- Cover Art Design: Byron McCoy
- Original Music: Makeup and Vanity Set, with additional music by Ben Fleisch
- Mixed and Mastered: Dayton Cole
- Theme song: Killer Shangri-lah by Pshycotic Beats featuring Pati Amor
- Special thanks to: Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, Oren Segal, Rebecca Jensen, Rose Baruc, The Nord Group, Meredith Stedman, and Alex Vespestad
For free, confidential, 24/7 support for survivors of sexual assault, as well as information and resources, visit rainn.org, or call 1-800-656-4673.
For more podcasts like To Die For, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us at tenderfoot.tv.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All eight episodes of The Die For are available now
to bitch absolutely free, but for ad free listening and
exclusive bonuses, subscribe to tendorfoot Plus at tenderfoot plus dot
com or on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Warning, the following episode contains explicit language and sexual themes.
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
My test, Mike test cool, Yeah, good, Yeah, we're okay.
I never said this to anymore. Every woman can seduce
a man, and it doesn't matter how does she look.
It's all about your skills, what do you say, how
(00:59):
do you touch, and how you're good and sex. That's it.
The most important thing. Not to give him everything at
the same moment, so you cannot go to bed and
slippit him at the first day, unless it's a special
mission where you have to kill your target.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Some spies use poisons, others use guns. But for Lea Rosa,
who's sitting in front of me right now, her body
is made into a weapon by the Russian military her
mission to seduce powerful men for their secrets or sometimes
their lives. This type of intelligence work is known as
(01:47):
sex bionage, and it's much more dangerous than you think.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
What is sexpionage? Actually? These sex becomes like a drug,
and your target becomes like drug addicted. When a drug
dealer wants to put someone on the needle, he gives
a little bit. He doesn't give straight away everything. So
the same way you do. You give a little bit sex,
(02:14):
you give a little bit taste, and you tease, you
tease till you make sure that your target becomes addicted
to you because you put so many anchors around him
and his brain in his body. Basically the body gets
used to you, so he physically cannot be with someone else.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
To really sorry.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Episode one, chapter one, the meeting. Our story begins with
the mafia.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I call from a mafia family.
Speaker 6 (03:46):
It's a real mafia family.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I mean, not like some of the people that you.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
You know that will be say I'm connected in all that.
My father actually did go before Robert Kennedy and McClelland
and the interview you're listening to me many years ago,
speaking with Johnny Fratto, also known as the Beverly Hills Gangster.
His father worked under al Capone and his brother was
killed in the tragic plane crash that also took the
life of boxer Rocky Marciano. I have a question about
(04:15):
the mom, has it changed, right?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
That's all movies.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It doesn't exist, never did.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I was publishing a book with Johnny about his colorful
and controversial life. We'd get together and he'd tell stories
for hours.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
I could judge.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I don't belong in here.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
I'm twenty four years old.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
My wife is now pregnant with my son, Johnny. I
don't belong with him.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
After Fratto moved to Los Angeles, he set his sites
more on fame than racketeering, and unexpectedly became a recurring
guest on The Howard Stern Show. The son he just
mentioned grew up and wanted to leave the family business
and get into the film business.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
This is Johnny.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Introducing his son, Johnny Junior, to stan Lee, the legendary
Marvel Comics writer. My sight, he thinks he can you
write a movie.
Speaker 8 (05:02):
Everybody who's written his first movie has never written a
movie before, and why couldn't he.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
Do it right? At least as I look like a writer,
I look like one.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Of the foudios as.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Not long after this, Johnny Fratto died of lung cancer
at the age of sixty one. I didn't talk to
his son, Johnny Junior much after that. But one afternoon,
after years of silence, he called with an incredible story.
Speaker 7 (05:29):
So I have got a weird thing, like it's gonna
sound fucking strange to you, and I don't even really
know how to catch this to you.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Where where do I begin? Because you wrote the book
The Game. I met this girl.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
That basically says she knows how to seduce men, pick
up men, do whatever, you know, Like basically, she can
own any man in two fucking seconds.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
What Johnny's referring to here is an infamous book I
wrote over a decade ago. Two years I spent undercover
in a secret society of pickup artists.
Speaker 7 (06:04):
And here's the crazy par She says she was a
Russian spy at one time. I mean, it's the craziest
she ever heard. She told me that there's like a
school that she had to attend in Russia where she
had to like literally like have sex with her teachers
in front of the class, and have sex with different
relationship from the class, and learn how to give perfect
(06:26):
blow jobs.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And I'm sitting here, I've literally never heard of anything
like this, and frankly found it hard to believe. I'm
sure the crude way Johnny Junior was speaking about it
wasn't helping any She was trained by the like Russian
government to seduce men and like get their secrets or whatever.
Speaker 7 (06:42):
Yeah, she was trained by Russia. She says to uh,
you know, fucking give the perfect blowjob to fuck a
guy perfectly. And I kind of believe her, man, I mean,
I really do think she's telling the truth. And it's
a little weird, but I thought, you know, if there's
any one guy in the fucking world that it would
be up hiss aally it's you.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And can I asksk the obvious question, which is how
did you meet her?
Speaker 7 (07:06):
I met her through an Armdian guy named Art, and
Art's adapper, probably the most dapper little guy I've ever met.
And he said, you know, Johnny, there's somebody that you
got to meet. You got to come over here.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It's very special.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
I said, Okay, well what is it? So I get there.
He introduces me. Obviously, she's beautiful, I mean, like she says,
she was trained to go in and fucking do with
like fucking heads of state and shit like that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
And then how would you described like her just as
a person in general?
Speaker 7 (07:34):
You know, she's very kind of like a cool seductress
that looks you straight in the eye all the time
and kind of always knows the right thing to say.
Every single thing I was saying to her, she just
had the perfect retort because I was, you know, I'm
not trying to be an asshole, but you know, look,
this town is hard.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
A couple more questions, how do we know she's not
still working for the Russian government?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Johnny said.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I could ask her that question and any others I
had when I met her. I figured if the Russian
government wanted to get me, they were probably easier ways.
Speaker 7 (08:20):
May man, what's going on you?
Speaker 6 (08:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (08:23):
I really miss you, man. I mean, Jesus, last time
I saw you was what my dad's funeral or something?
Was funeral Jesus Christ.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Johnny introduced me to the woman standing next to him.
She was tall, with dyed blonde haircut short and stylish,
and wearing what looked like very expensive designer clothing. This
was the reputed former Russian spy Aliah.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
Rosa Rosa Neil Strauss, I want you guys to meet
each other.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Thank you so much for an introduction, Neil.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
I'm telling you by the end of the night, you
guys are going to be best.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
We sat down for dinner with a few other people
that invited to get their take on the situation, including
a former top breaking agent at the CIA.
Speaker 6 (08:59):
That's what you have both on the spot.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Do you want to tell a little bit about a liah?
Speaker 7 (09:03):
And then I always have to get permission first because
the story is kind of crazy. Do I have permission
to basically get fucking crazy with it? Tell her what
you're really fantastic. I'm gonna tell the true. So I'm
gonna say somethe this woman right here and this is
no ship what through a training thing.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
That Johnny Junior then repeats much of what he told
me earlier in the same crass language.
Speaker 7 (09:30):
I know that sounds the bad, but but it just
I'm just telling true.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
So anyway, that's it is that that is That is
that introduction.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Pretty thoughts of the introduction.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Okay, I'm I mean it was authentic, right, So it's authent.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Right, I'm just going about I'm just saying what I
you know, I know, yes, I know, But there's much
more to the story.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
It's clear that Aliyah is a little uncomfortable and that
there's a lot more.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
To her story.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Never ever before I shared this story with anyone, including
my parents. Nobody knows those people who knew they were killed.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
After the dinner, I spoke with my source from the CIA,
who didn't want his name or voice to be used,
and asked what he thought. She seems credible, He replied,
but her story is incredible. Anything that was a great dinner,
that's one. It was an odd dinner. It's basically the CIA,
(10:31):
the KGB, and the mafia. And I was left with
more questions about Aleia Rosa than answers, And to me,
that's always a good sign to move forward. Chapter two,
(10:56):
A dirty organization. After meeting Aliyah, I decided to look
more into her story. There wasn't a lot online, but
I did find a few items legitimizing her, a few
items delegitimizing her, and a social media page that was
(11:16):
very influencery. Then I looked into actual evidence of a
seduction program operated by the Russian government, and there was
no in depth information online. It seemed like something out
of a spy movie.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
You made such a bold entrance into a little drama.
Two doesn'ts appreciate the occasion With Twist's mister Bond.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
James I probably wouldn't have believed it at all if
not for a strange experience I had a decade earlier.
I received a call out of the blue from a
special agent at the FBI. We are dedicated to national
security investigations of the highest order, he told me. He
went on to reveal two things that shocked me. The
first is that my book The Game was required reading
(12:00):
for his agents. The second was that he'd like me
to fly to Washington and train a group of field
agents and analysts on the art of seduction. It was
an offer I couldn't say no to talking.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
You know, I would say, what do you feel like
doing that web feels right for you? You know, because
I'm talking in your ranche was I'm talking to visual person.
I'm like, what do you see yourself doing today? How
do you see yourself going out to this world? Because
I know they're going to be visualizing and these things
are really key for getting reports.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Talking.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
It's all modalities. If you want to talk in their
primary modality, and this is.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
This is that I'll be with.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
So I called Robin Dreeke, one of the agents who
was present at that session and the former head of
the FBI's Behavioral Analysis program to ask why was the
FBI learning the art of seduction?
Speaker 8 (12:46):
We brought you in. A benefit of what you brought
to us was a deep understanding of human psychology. And
in our work where you're developing confidential human sources and
recruiting spies, the understanding of how to develop for poor
and attraction is key and critical minus going for romantic interactions.
A lot of those other techniques are extremely effective. And
(13:08):
you brought a vast amount of personal, real life experience
to that with the book, and you're coming in and
training with us.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
It's so interesting, so I'll feel you it and get
your getting your thoughts. And at dinner, Eliah said she'd
worked for a Russian intelligence agency called the FSB, which
I never heard of before, so I asked Robin to
give me a little background on how Russian spy programs operate.
Speaker 8 (13:31):
So in general at mirrors ours pretty closely, and like
their SVR is the equivalent of our CIA, and their
GRU that's the Russian military intelligence is the equivalent of
our DIA Defense Intelligence Agency. Their FSB is the equivalent
of our FBI. They see intelligence more as a as
(13:53):
a factory event in the sense of this an assembly line.
I don't remember the exact number, but at the height
of the cold or before the KGB broke into the
SVR and the FSB, I think that the number of
employees that were part of the KGB were in the
millions compared to a handful of our operatives overseas. For
(14:13):
the like the CIA and DA and A are an
intelligence machine. They suck it all in and they collect it.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
All Why, I asked Robin, does Russia have this evidently
deserved reputation as the world capital of spying?
Speaker 8 (14:29):
The gross domestic product GDP of Russia it's like Italy's
or Texas. I mean, it's not huge. And when you're
a country that relies on hydrocarbons for your economy and
that can fluctuate as much as it has been fluctuated
definitely in the last bunch of years, you don't have
They don't have a huge economy. It's not very strong.
And so when you're cash strapped and you're trying to
(14:49):
be the big boy on the world stage, if you
don't have the military because you can't support it, you're
going to do it in another way. And they do
it in intelligence because intelligence collection, the way they do
it is a lot cheaper than anything else. And they
send their messages whether they're going to publicly, even though
they say it's not public, but you know, killing people
with depleted uranium, there's a lot of other ways that
(15:12):
take someone out silently. Those things are made for public
statements saying we can find you anywhere in the world
and we'll take you out, And that's intelligence operations, and
it's a lot cheaper doing that than anything else, and
so that's why they utilize their intelligence organizations to do
just that.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I feel in Robin who spent twenty two years recruiting
Russian spies at Aalah's seduction training with the FSB, and
ask him what he thinks.
Speaker 8 (15:35):
Anecdotally and totally believable, the FSB that is a dirty organization.
You know, it's an organization that is founded on doing
things just like that. I mean, they use honey traps
and use it with Clayton Loan Tree, and I know
there's been others that just don't hit the news.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
We'll get into the story of Clayton Loan Tree and
some of those others later in this podcast, and we'll
also talk more about honey traps. The honey in this
term is the agent who's seducing a target, and the
trap is, now that I have evidence you've slept with me,
or now that you've fallen completely in love with me,
here's what I want from you.
Speaker 8 (16:17):
No one volunteers to the FSB. That's why they have
to use honey traps and train people to do that,
because they're dicks. If you're a foreign diplomat over in
their country, they're going to harass, to live in hell
out of you, and then they're going to try to
trap you and coerce you into cooperation. That is not
the way to recruit a human being. That does not
make anyone feel safe.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
I ask if the United States has seduction spies, and
Robin claims that they do.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Not.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Even taking a source to a strip club and using
government money for that, he says, would be a political liability.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
When she was talking.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
About her experience, You're just there and you stay there
out of fear. There's like if you leave, your life's
going to be destroyed.
Speaker 8 (16:57):
I mean, you know this, for the world you've been in,
that's a broken toil, and broken toys have an unhealthy
outlook on the world unless they've realized that they've been
through counseling.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Now find what you mean by a broken toy.
Speaker 8 (17:13):
First of all, people that are susceptible to being recruited
or trafficked, because basically she's human. Trafficked is what she is.
There was a need in her life that wasn't being
fulfilled somewhere else, and the FSB came in and fulfilled
that need to be seen, heard, and valued by others,
and then they manipulated that against her.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Keep in mind that I don't know a lot yet
about Leah's story or how she was recruited and needed
is Robin, He's basing this analysis on his intelligence experience.
Speaker 8 (17:46):
To me, there's no difference between a child predator and
what they did to her. Welcomed to the world of
Russian Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Chapter three, The Target.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
Nice to see.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I'm really excited to share it with you.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It's a sunny Wednesday afternoon in Malibu and Alia Rosa
has come over to discuss the podcast. When someone says
they've been trained their whole life in the art of seduction,
you tend to question everything they say and do and
wonder if it's all a manipulation.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I love your shoes.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
They're so cool.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yes, Mary, I have not seen anything like this, really stylish,
like my son would really love it.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
There's a controversial and often hurtful technique that the pickup
artists in the game taught, and it called the nag.
You give someone what appears to be a compliment and
then say something slightly backhanded so that they're not quite
sure if they're being complimented or insulted. And that's exactly
what Leah just did to me. Elee's brought over a
(19:15):
bottle of wine, which doesn't often happen in the meetings
I attend. I handle the corkscrew well, I go to
check on my son. When I get back, the wine
is unopened, and she hands the corkscrew back to me.
I get the funny feeling that she's trying to prove
to me that she hasn't tampered with the wine.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Okay, cheers first, cheers, have your Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yes, but did you purposely not open the wine or
so like you knew it was.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I could trust the wine.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
You left to see to check on your son, I
could drop something you know, you know, like yeah, I
know that you have this kind of like assaults it's
normal you and putting. You are the same type.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Believe it or not.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
You protect yourself, your environment, your family. Of course it's
a good thing. That's not putting us. He also protects
his country.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
I'm not sure how to feel about that put In comment,
and that's probably just what Aleah wants. Another nag. She
then shares something else that really messes with my mind,
something that just may be true given what Robin Drake
from the FBI just shared with me.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Actually, like you'd be surprised. There's so many agents working
in America, Like so many, Yeah, even in Malibu, Like
you know, seriously, just be aware. Don't say anything about putting.
I mean yeah, I sound like like kind of like
(20:44):
don't say it is kind of like putting some fears,
but like it's better not really too. I mean, when
Americans discussed like Biden, no Trump, it's kind of like, yeah, okay,
But once they discuss about like putting, there are always
many years around.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
I turned the discussion to the podcast. Even though the
period of lie is talking about as many years ago,
I assume Putin still wouldn't be happy about her sharing
state secrets. Speaking that are their concerns for safety in
speaking out and telling your story and sharing all this information.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
To say I'm not scared, I would lie. Yes, of course,
I am a mother of thirteen years old son. Yes
of course I'm scared. I don't know what might happen.
Right if I will beat that tomorrow, Let's say I
know that my son, even it would be so hard
(21:56):
for him, he will grow up and he will respect
me for that. At least I had enough courage and
bravery to stand up and speak out against this evil.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
That evil, she explains, is more than.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Just puttin sharing that life events is a proof of
how corrupted the whole system is and how the male
dominance is just so strong there that being a female
(22:38):
in Russia, it means that you're almost like you have
the same rights like a dog. And it's it's just
not even like it's not right. But this is if
this isn't a human.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
The other question is if we're going to go.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Tell the story, are you comfortable just just sharing all
your experiences, good or bad, and no matter.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
What people may think.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I don't feel comfortable at all. Honestly, I don't want
people to think that I like I can kill people.
I'm a murder. You know, it's a bad kind of like,
you know she could kill people, then maybe she can
do it now, who knows? You know, she doesn't have
this stop because on the good side, I protected my
(23:38):
country great and I tried to survive. On the bad side,
I'm still a murderer. I still killed some people, and
I still feel guilty for that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And asked Johnny when I first spoke to him, Oh,
how do I know she's not still working for Russian Intelligence?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
You know what, I don't know how johnswer this question? Really,
how do you know if i'm if I'm like, I
may still work for puts in right, because I will
reveal the real truth was going on there and what
(24:23):
was happening before. When I heard about the Ukrainian War,
I felt that moment that I really want to speak out.
I felt like I can't just sit down there and
just be silenced like I was all this time.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Looking back in the time you were in Russian intelligence,
do you think you were a hero or a victim?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Definitely victim, But brain was that I was a hero.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I plainly.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
In my interview with Robin Drake, she pauses and reflects
when he calls her a broken toy, I ask her
what she's thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I mean, for so many years I didn't feel that
I was broken. But it's hard, you know, Neil, It's
so hard to accept that because it's such a big guilt.
(25:33):
It's such a big pain when you realize and when
you accept that I was a part of this evil system.
So yeah, I guess I am broken, and yes I
am a toy.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
As Leah talks further, I'm reminded of the grim reality
that the victims and sexpionage are not just the targets,
but the seducers themselves. Over this, it's been an intense discussion,
and I totally afterward that I would like to move
forward and share the story of her training, her espionage work,
(26:17):
and her escape from the Russian military. I just have
one last question. Is she ever able to turn off
the role she was forced to play? Her answer confirms
one of my deepest fears.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
No, I mean, like seduction is I think, Yeah, it's
a lifestyle. It's definitely a lifestyle once you learn it.
It's just like habit. You go everywhere with this, you
live like that. I wanted to work with you and
you in this case, like warm my target. So I
(26:56):
did it for this goal which we are having great now,
and it's yeah, I can tell this a seduction, and
then I realize that you are my perfect target. I
seduce to.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
We will continue in episode two, available now along with
all eight episodes of TODE for volume one. Continue listening
for free on Apple Podcasts.
All eight episodes of The Die For are available now
to bitch absolutely free, but for ad free listening and
exclusive bonuses, subscribe to tendorfoot Plus at tenderfoot plus dot
com or on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Warning, the following episode contains explicit language and sexual themes.
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
My test, Mike test cool, Yeah, good, Yeah, we're okay.
I never said this to anymore. Every woman can seduce
a man, and it doesn't matter how does she look.
It's all about your skills, what do you say, how
(00:59):
do you touch, and how you're good and sex. That's it.
The most important thing. Not to give him everything at
the same moment, so you cannot go to bed and
slippit him at the first day, unless it's a special
mission where you have to kill your target.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Some spies use poisons, others use guns. But for Lea Rosa,
who's sitting in front of me right now, her body
is made into a weapon by the Russian military her
mission to seduce powerful men for their secrets or sometimes
their lives. This type of intelligence work is known as
(01:47):
sex bionage, and it's much more dangerous than you think.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
What is sexpionage? Actually? These sex becomes like a drug,
and your target becomes like drug addicted. When a drug
dealer wants to put someone on the needle, he gives
a little bit. He doesn't give straight away everything. So
the same way you do. You give a little bit sex,
(02:14):
you give a little bit taste, and you tease, you
tease till you make sure that your target becomes addicted
to you because you put so many anchors around him
and his brain in his body. Basically the body gets
used to you, so he physically cannot be with someone else.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
To really sorry.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Episode one, chapter one, the meeting. Our story begins with
the mafia.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I call from a mafia family.
Speaker 6 (03:46):
It's a real mafia family.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I mean, not like some of the people that you.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
You know that will be say I'm connected in all that.
My father actually did go before Robert Kennedy and McClelland
and the interview you're listening to me many years ago,
speaking with Johnny Fratto, also known as the Beverly Hills Gangster.
His father worked under al Capone and his brother was
killed in the tragic plane crash that also took the
life of boxer Rocky Marciano. I have a question about
(04:15):
the mom, has it changed, right?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
That's all movies.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It doesn't exist, never did.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I was publishing a book with Johnny about his colorful
and controversial life. We'd get together and he'd tell stories
for hours.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
I could judge.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I don't belong in here.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
I'm twenty four years old.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
My wife is now pregnant with my son, Johnny. I
don't belong with him.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
After Fratto moved to Los Angeles, he set his sites
more on fame than racketeering, and unexpectedly became a recurring
guest on The Howard Stern Show. The son he just
mentioned grew up and wanted to leave the family business
and get into the film business.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
This is Johnny.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Introducing his son, Johnny Junior, to stan Lee, the legendary
Marvel Comics writer. My sight, he thinks he can you
write a movie.
Speaker 8 (05:02):
Everybody who's written his first movie has never written a
movie before, and why couldn't he.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
Do it right? At least as I look like a writer,
I look like one.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Of the foudios as.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Not long after this, Johnny Fratto died of lung cancer
at the age of sixty one. I didn't talk to
his son, Johnny Junior much after that. But one afternoon,
after years of silence, he called with an incredible story.
Speaker 7 (05:29):
So I have got a weird thing, like it's gonna
sound fucking strange to you, and I don't even really
know how to catch this to you.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Where where do I begin? Because you wrote the book
The Game. I met this girl.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
That basically says she knows how to seduce men, pick
up men, do whatever, you know, Like basically, she can
own any man in two fucking seconds.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
What Johnny's referring to here is an infamous book I
wrote over a decade ago. Two years I spent undercover
in a secret society of pickup artists.
Speaker 7 (06:04):
And here's the crazy par She says she was a
Russian spy at one time. I mean, it's the craziest
she ever heard. She told me that there's like a
school that she had to attend in Russia where she
had to like literally like have sex with her teachers
in front of the class, and have sex with different
relationship from the class, and learn how to give perfect
(06:26):
blow jobs.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And I'm sitting here, I've literally never heard of anything
like this, and frankly found it hard to believe. I'm
sure the crude way Johnny Junior was speaking about it
wasn't helping any She was trained by the like Russian
government to seduce men and like get their secrets or whatever.
Speaker 7 (06:42):
Yeah, she was trained by Russia. She says to uh,
you know, fucking give the perfect blowjob to fuck a
guy perfectly. And I kind of believe her, man, I mean,
I really do think she's telling the truth. And it's
a little weird, but I thought, you know, if there's
any one guy in the fucking world that it would
be up hiss aally it's you.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And can I asksk the obvious question, which is how
did you meet her?
Speaker 7 (07:06):
I met her through an Armdian guy named Art, and
Art's adapper, probably the most dapper little guy I've ever met.
And he said, you know, Johnny, there's somebody that you
got to meet. You got to come over here.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It's very special.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
I said, Okay, well what is it? So I get there.
He introduces me. Obviously, she's beautiful, I mean, like she says,
she was trained to go in and fucking do with
like fucking heads of state and shit like that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
And then how would you described like her just as
a person in general?
Speaker 7 (07:34):
You know, she's very kind of like a cool seductress
that looks you straight in the eye all the time
and kind of always knows the right thing to say.
Every single thing I was saying to her, she just
had the perfect retort because I was, you know, I'm
not trying to be an asshole, but you know, look,
this town is hard.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
A couple more questions, how do we know she's not
still working for the Russian government?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Johnny said.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I could ask her that question and any others I
had when I met her. I figured if the Russian
government wanted to get me, they were probably easier ways.
Speaker 7 (08:20):
May man, what's going on you?
Speaker 6 (08:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (08:23):
I really miss you, man. I mean, Jesus, last time
I saw you was what my dad's funeral or something?
Was funeral Jesus Christ.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Johnny introduced me to the woman standing next to him.
She was tall, with dyed blonde haircut short and stylish,
and wearing what looked like very expensive designer clothing. This
was the reputed former Russian spy Aliah.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
Rosa Rosa Neil Strauss, I want you guys to meet
each other.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Thank you so much for an introduction, Neil.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
I'm telling you by the end of the night, you
guys are going to be best.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
We sat down for dinner with a few other people
that invited to get their take on the situation, including
a former top breaking agent at the CIA.
Speaker 6 (08:59):
That's what you have both on the spot.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Do you want to tell a little bit about a liah?
Speaker 7 (09:03):
And then I always have to get permission first because
the story is kind of crazy. Do I have permission
to basically get fucking crazy with it? Tell her what
you're really fantastic. I'm gonna tell the true. So I'm
gonna say somethe this woman right here and this is
no ship what through a training thing.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
That Johnny Junior then repeats much of what he told
me earlier in the same crass language.
Speaker 7 (09:30):
I know that sounds the bad, but but it just
I'm just telling true.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
So anyway, that's it is that that is That is
that introduction.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Pretty thoughts of the introduction.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Okay, I'm I mean it was authentic, right, So it's authent.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Right, I'm just going about I'm just saying what I
you know, I know, yes, I know, But there's much
more to the story.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
It's clear that Aliyah is a little uncomfortable and that
there's a lot more.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
To her story.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Never ever before I shared this story with anyone, including
my parents. Nobody knows those people who knew they were killed.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
After the dinner, I spoke with my source from the CIA,
who didn't want his name or voice to be used,
and asked what he thought. She seems credible, He replied,
but her story is incredible. Anything that was a great dinner,
that's one. It was an odd dinner. It's basically the CIA,
(10:31):
the KGB, and the mafia. And I was left with
more questions about Aleia Rosa than answers, And to me,
that's always a good sign to move forward. Chapter two,
(10:56):
A dirty organization. After meeting Aliyah, I decided to look
more into her story. There wasn't a lot online, but
I did find a few items legitimizing her, a few
items delegitimizing her, and a social media page that was
(11:16):
very influencery. Then I looked into actual evidence of a
seduction program operated by the Russian government, and there was
no in depth information online. It seemed like something out
of a spy movie.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
You made such a bold entrance into a little drama.
Two doesn'ts appreciate the occasion With Twist's mister Bond.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
James I probably wouldn't have believed it at all if
not for a strange experience I had a decade earlier.
I received a call out of the blue from a
special agent at the FBI. We are dedicated to national
security investigations of the highest order, he told me. He
went on to reveal two things that shocked me. The
first is that my book The Game was required reading
(12:00):
for his agents. The second was that he'd like me
to fly to Washington and train a group of field
agents and analysts on the art of seduction. It was
an offer I couldn't say no to talking.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
You know, I would say, what do you feel like
doing that web feels right for you? You know, because
I'm talking in your ranche was I'm talking to visual person.
I'm like, what do you see yourself doing today? How
do you see yourself going out to this world? Because
I know they're going to be visualizing and these things
are really key for getting reports.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Talking.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
It's all modalities. If you want to talk in their
primary modality, and this is.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
This is that I'll be with.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
So I called Robin Dreeke, one of the agents who
was present at that session and the former head of
the FBI's Behavioral Analysis program to ask why was the
FBI learning the art of seduction?
Speaker 8 (12:46):
We brought you in. A benefit of what you brought
to us was a deep understanding of human psychology. And
in our work where you're developing confidential human sources and
recruiting spies, the understanding of how to develop for poor
and attraction is key and critical minus going for romantic interactions.
A lot of those other techniques are extremely effective. And
(13:08):
you brought a vast amount of personal, real life experience
to that with the book, and you're coming in and
training with us.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
It's so interesting, so I'll feel you it and get
your getting your thoughts. And at dinner, Eliah said she'd
worked for a Russian intelligence agency called the FSB, which
I never heard of before, so I asked Robin to
give me a little background on how Russian spy programs operate.
Speaker 8 (13:31):
So in general at mirrors ours pretty closely, and like
their SVR is the equivalent of our CIA, and their
GRU that's the Russian military intelligence is the equivalent of
our DIA Defense Intelligence Agency. Their FSB is the equivalent
of our FBI. They see intelligence more as a as
(13:53):
a factory event in the sense of this an assembly line.
I don't remember the exact number, but at the height
of the cold or before the KGB broke into the
SVR and the FSB, I think that the number of
employees that were part of the KGB were in the
millions compared to a handful of our operatives overseas. For
(14:13):
the like the CIA and DA and A are an
intelligence machine. They suck it all in and they collect it.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
All Why, I asked Robin, does Russia have this evidently
deserved reputation as the world capital of spying?
Speaker 8 (14:29):
The gross domestic product GDP of Russia it's like Italy's
or Texas. I mean, it's not huge. And when you're
a country that relies on hydrocarbons for your economy and
that can fluctuate as much as it has been fluctuated
definitely in the last bunch of years, you don't have
They don't have a huge economy. It's not very strong.
And so when you're cash strapped and you're trying to
(14:49):
be the big boy on the world stage, if you
don't have the military because you can't support it, you're
going to do it in another way. And they do
it in intelligence because intelligence collection, the way they do
it is a lot cheaper than anything else. And they
send their messages whether they're going to publicly, even though
they say it's not public, but you know, killing people
with depleted uranium, there's a lot of other ways that
(15:12):
take someone out silently. Those things are made for public
statements saying we can find you anywhere in the world
and we'll take you out, And that's intelligence operations, and
it's a lot cheaper doing that than anything else, and
so that's why they utilize their intelligence organizations to do
just that.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I feel in Robin who spent twenty two years recruiting
Russian spies at Aalah's seduction training with the FSB, and
ask him what he thinks.
Speaker 8 (15:35):
Anecdotally and totally believable, the FSB that is a dirty organization.
You know, it's an organization that is founded on doing
things just like that. I mean, they use honey traps
and use it with Clayton Loan Tree, and I know
there's been others that just don't hit the news.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
We'll get into the story of Clayton Loan Tree and
some of those others later in this podcast, and we'll
also talk more about honey traps. The honey in this
term is the agent who's seducing a target, and the
trap is, now that I have evidence you've slept with me,
or now that you've fallen completely in love with me,
here's what I want from you.
Speaker 8 (16:17):
No one volunteers to the FSB. That's why they have
to use honey traps and train people to do that,
because they're dicks. If you're a foreign diplomat over in
their country, they're going to harass, to live in hell
out of you, and then they're going to try to
trap you and coerce you into cooperation. That is not
the way to recruit a human being. That does not
make anyone feel safe.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
I ask if the United States has seduction spies, and
Robin claims that they do.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Not.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Even taking a source to a strip club and using
government money for that, he says, would be a political liability.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
When she was talking.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
About her experience, You're just there and you stay there
out of fear. There's like if you leave, your life's
going to be destroyed.
Speaker 8 (16:57):
I mean, you know this, for the world you've been in,
that's a broken toil, and broken toys have an unhealthy
outlook on the world unless they've realized that they've been
through counseling.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Now find what you mean by a broken toy.
Speaker 8 (17:13):
First of all, people that are susceptible to being recruited
or trafficked, because basically she's human. Trafficked is what she is.
There was a need in her life that wasn't being
fulfilled somewhere else, and the FSB came in and fulfilled
that need to be seen, heard, and valued by others,
and then they manipulated that against her.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Keep in mind that I don't know a lot yet
about Leah's story or how she was recruited and needed
is Robin, He's basing this analysis on his intelligence experience.
Speaker 8 (17:46):
To me, there's no difference between a child predator and
what they did to her. Welcomed to the world of
Russian Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Chapter three, The Target.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
Nice to see.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I'm really excited to share it with you.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It's a sunny Wednesday afternoon in Malibu and Alia Rosa
has come over to discuss the podcast. When someone says
they've been trained their whole life in the art of seduction,
you tend to question everything they say and do and
wonder if it's all a manipulation.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I love your shoes.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
They're so cool.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yes, Mary, I have not seen anything like this, really stylish,
like my son would really love it.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
There's a controversial and often hurtful technique that the pickup
artists in the game taught, and it called the nag.
You give someone what appears to be a compliment and
then say something slightly backhanded so that they're not quite
sure if they're being complimented or insulted. And that's exactly
what Leah just did to me. Elee's brought over a
(19:15):
bottle of wine, which doesn't often happen in the meetings
I attend. I handle the corkscrew well, I go to
check on my son. When I get back, the wine
is unopened, and she hands the corkscrew back to me.
I get the funny feeling that she's trying to prove
to me that she hasn't tampered with the wine.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Okay, cheers first, cheers, have your Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yes, but did you purposely not open the wine or
so like you knew it was.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I could trust the wine.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
You left to see to check on your son, I
could drop something you know, you know, like yeah, I
know that you have this kind of like assaults it's
normal you and putting. You are the same type.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Believe it or not.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
You protect yourself, your environment, your family. Of course it's
a good thing. That's not putting us. He also protects
his country.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
I'm not sure how to feel about that put In comment,
and that's probably just what Aleah wants. Another nag. She
then shares something else that really messes with my mind,
something that just may be true given what Robin Drake
from the FBI just shared with me.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Actually, like you'd be surprised. There's so many agents working
in America, Like so many, Yeah, even in Malibu, Like
you know, seriously, just be aware. Don't say anything about putting.
I mean yeah, I sound like like kind of like
(20:44):
don't say it is kind of like putting some fears,
but like it's better not really too. I mean, when
Americans discussed like Biden, no Trump, it's kind of like, yeah, okay,
But once they discuss about like putting, there are always
many years around.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
I turned the discussion to the podcast. Even though the
period of lie is talking about as many years ago,
I assume Putin still wouldn't be happy about her sharing
state secrets. Speaking that are their concerns for safety in
speaking out and telling your story and sharing all this information.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
To say I'm not scared, I would lie. Yes, of course,
I am a mother of thirteen years old son. Yes
of course I'm scared. I don't know what might happen.
Right if I will beat that tomorrow, Let's say I
know that my son, even it would be so hard
(21:56):
for him, he will grow up and he will respect
me for that. At least I had enough courage and
bravery to stand up and speak out against this evil.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
That evil, she explains, is more than.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Just puttin sharing that life events is a proof of
how corrupted the whole system is and how the male
dominance is just so strong there that being a female
(22:38):
in Russia, it means that you're almost like you have
the same rights like a dog. And it's it's just
not even like it's not right. But this is if
this isn't a human.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
The other question is if we're going to go.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Tell the story, are you comfortable just just sharing all
your experiences, good or bad, and no matter.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
What people may think.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I don't feel comfortable at all. Honestly, I don't want
people to think that I like I can kill people.
I'm a murder. You know, it's a bad kind of like,
you know she could kill people, then maybe she can
do it now, who knows? You know, she doesn't have
this stop because on the good side, I protected my
(23:38):
country great and I tried to survive. On the bad side,
I'm still a murderer. I still killed some people, and
I still feel guilty for that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And asked Johnny when I first spoke to him, Oh,
how do I know she's not still working for Russian Intelligence?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
You know what, I don't know how johnswer this question? Really,
how do you know if i'm if I'm like, I
may still work for puts in right, because I will
reveal the real truth was going on there and what
(24:23):
was happening before. When I heard about the Ukrainian War,
I felt that moment that I really want to speak out.
I felt like I can't just sit down there and
just be silenced like I was all this time.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Looking back in the time you were in Russian intelligence,
do you think you were a hero or a victim?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Definitely victim, But brain was that I was a hero.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I plainly.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
In my interview with Robin Drake, she pauses and reflects
when he calls her a broken toy, I ask her
what she's thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I mean, for so many years I didn't feel that
I was broken. But it's hard, you know, Neil, It's
so hard to accept that because it's such a big guilt.
(25:33):
It's such a big pain when you realize and when
you accept that I was a part of this evil system.
So yeah, I guess I am broken, and yes I
am a toy.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
As Leah talks further, I'm reminded of the grim reality
that the victims and sexpionage are not just the targets,
but the seducers themselves. Over this, it's been an intense discussion,
and I totally afterward that I would like to move
forward and share the story of her training, her espionage work,
(26:17):
and her escape from the Russian military. I just have
one last question. Is she ever able to turn off
the role she was forced to play? Her answer confirms
one of my deepest fears.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
No, I mean, like seduction is I think, Yeah, it's
a lifestyle. It's definitely a lifestyle once you learn it.
It's just like habit. You go everywhere with this, you
live like that. I wanted to work with you and
you in this case, like warm my target. So I
(26:56):
did it for this goal which we are having great now,
and it's yeah, I can tell this a seduction, and
then I realize that you are my perfect target. I
seduce to.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
We will continue in episode two, available now along with
all eight episodes of TODE for volume one. Continue listening
for free on Apple Podcasts.
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