S02 - Ep. 12: It Takes Every Voice

Caroline and Rebecca sit down with survivors Chelsea Filer, Chelsea Maldonando, and Katherine Kubler for a conversation about this season, the work they have been doing individually and their hopes for the future. The season closes out with a word from Paris Hilton as we look towards the work still left to do.

To learn more and get involved, head to TrappedInTreatment.com 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following episode contains disturbing and graphic accounts of survivor experiences.
It may not be suitable for younger audiences. Please listen
with care.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
From iHeartRadio London Audio and executive producer Paris Hilton. This
is Trapped in Treatment. We're your hosts. I'm Rebecca Mellinger Brown.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
And I'm Caroline Cole. Over the last twelve weeks, we've
been on a journey uncovering the history of the Worldwide
Association of Specialty Programs in Schools, one of the largest
networks of Trouble Team programs in the world, their leaders,
and the slew of allegations against them. But more importantly,
it's led us to take a hard look at why

(00:51):
and how justice has been fleeting for us survivors. Hardly
anyone has been held accountable for their alleged actions at
WASP programs. Instead, many of them are walking free and
still running their own programs. But with a vast survivor
network and momentum from our fight for change, there was

(01:12):
no stopping us as we expose the truth and hell
that is the Troubled teen industry.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
This journey is constantly evolving as we bring this season
to a close Caroline and I wanted to focus on
survivor stories and their advocacy in the present day. WASP
may no longer exist, but its influence still does and
its effects are permanent. Caroline and I had the chance
to sit down with some close friends and WASP survivors

(01:41):
to hear more about their personal experiences and the work
they're doing to dismantle the troubled teen industry every single day.
We're in the final episode of season two of Trapped

(02:03):
in Treatment. It has been an absolute wild ride as
we investigate the worldwide association of specialty programs in schools
and today we have some really amazing advocates who not
only experienced WASP as teenagers, but are working today to
change the industry for good, to make sure that no
more children are trapped in treatment. And we have Chelsea

(02:25):
f Chelsea M and Catherine Koopler. Chelsea M. Why don't
you take it off?

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah? So, I'm Chelsea Maldonado.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
I am a survivor of Tranquility Bay and I'm also
a researcher for Trapped in Treatment.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
Hi. I'm Chelsea Filer. I am the executive director of
I Kappa Network. Also I've been running WASP Survivors, the
Facebook support group for the last wow more than ten years,
twelve years now, and it has been quite oh wild ride.

(03:01):
I have to agree with that.

Speaker 6 (03:03):
Hi.

Speaker 7 (03:05):
I'm Kathain Kuebler.

Speaker 8 (03:06):
I went to the WASP Program Academy at Ivy Ridge
in Ogdensburg, New York for fifteen months when I was
sixteen years old, and I also directed and executive produced
the Netflix docu series about my time in the program,
and WASP called the program conscults and kidnapping.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, thank you three so much for joining Caroline and
I to close out season two of Trapped in Treatment.
And you know, for those that spoke on this season
of the podcast, which was Caroline, Chelsea, and Chelsea about
your lived experience in WASP, I would just really love
to know what it was like retelling your stories for
this season of the podcast. And I'd love to start
with you, Caroline.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
So I've told my story publicly, whether on social media
or in some of the advocacy work that we've done
for our federal bill and also the state legislation that
we've worked on, but telling my story with my mom
was something that I have not done yet and hearing

(04:08):
my mom and you'll hear or have heard our story
in episode six. There were so many things as I
sat in the room with her as she was interviewed
for that episode that I didn't I haven't heard yet,
and I needed to hear things that she said, like
I made mistakes as a parent, I had trauma that

(04:30):
I needed to heal from and that affected the way
that I parented my daughter. So I think for me
being able to tell my story this season was so healing,
and I think it also allowed my mom to be
a part of the advocacy work that we're doing, which
I think so many parents who sent their kids away
they don't feel like they have a space to engage really,

(04:53):
So that was a really remarkable experience for me.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
And in terms of your relationship with your mom, has
that aided in kind of this sense of closure for
you both?

Speaker 1 (05:06):
It has in a sense, I think when you go
through something horrific as a child, and really the blame
lies on your parents for subjecting you to that, there's
a lot of resentment, there's a lot of animosity, and
so I think her being a part of this project
this season allowed both of us to really take that

(05:28):
next step in working together in this advocacy space and
not feeling like she's on the outside. And so in
a lot of ways, it's helped me release some of
that resentment and sadness.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
And Chelsea m I mean, what was it like retelling
your story for Trapped in Treatment and how does it
feel to have your story out there so publicly.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
I mean, so I've been telling my story in a
lot of different ways over the years, but this is
definitely like the biggest platform that I've had to talk
about my experiences. And I talked a lot about, you know,
what kind of brought me into the program, including experiencing
a sexual assault before coming to Tranquility Bay, and I
just think that's such an important element of the survivor experience,

(06:11):
especially for women. So many of us were victims of
sexual violence, and we were the ones who were ultimately
sent away.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Will ultimately, you know, our abusers stayed free.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
So I think bringing that up was very it was
it was hard, you know, it's a vulnerable feeling to
talk about that on you know, such a big podcast,
but I think it's important to get it out there,
and it's like it feel a little bit lighter to
have it off my chest.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
So it's been a really good experience go wrong.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, we're really really proud of you for that, and
I'm sure there's so many other survivors that have come
out and shared their lived experience that is similar to
yours too. And you know, it really does take. It
takes hearing stories to relate and obviously a lot of
that start with Paris's documentary and that's how a lot
of us were connected. And so it is a beautiful

(07:06):
thing when you when you hear something that is similar
to yours and you can relate and utilize it for good.
Chelsea Filer, I mean, how do you feel retelling your story?

Speaker 5 (07:17):
I would definitely have to say that telling my story
has always been part of my healing process, and it
really does give you a purpose to be able to
channel that pain into progress, helps you to put it
into perspective. The things that we went through were horrific

(07:41):
and there's absolutely no excusing it, but to be able
to make it part of your purpose and make it
part of your life, to be able to share your
story as kind of a call to action where you

(08:02):
can convince someone who would otherwise send their child into
one of these places without any knowledge of what was
really going on behind those doors, and give them the
insight into what it was like to be in the program,
what it was like to be trapped in treatment, and

(08:24):
you can change people's lives just with that knowledge. I
think that there's been a lot of parents who have
come to me and come to other advocates throughout the
years and said, Wow, you really helped me to change
my mind. I was going to make a big mistake.
I was going to send my child, but because I

(08:44):
heard you, because I heard all of these voices that
rang through and said, you know, there's better options. It
makes a difference in people's lives. And that's ultimately what
makes it worth it. That's what makes you know everything
that I went through ultimately not in vain, because now

(09:07):
we can save other kids.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
I do really want to thank you, Chelsea, because you
not only were one of the most prominent voices of
this season because of how you were able to describe
WASP and really take us through the journey over the years,
but you also have been one of the most prominent
voices of the movement, you know, since the early two thousand,

(09:31):
since you got out, and so I would love for
you to tell us a little bit more about your
advocacy journey, you know, since coming out of WASP and
where you are today.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
Well, I think it started with pretty much the day
that I got out. I even before I got out,
I said I got to do something about this, and
because I just leaving my friends in there felt heartbreaking
knowing that I was free, but they weren't a real

(10:03):
sense of survivor's guilt there. And the first thing that
I did was call the police and I told them
what was going on down in Mexico, and they said
there's nothing we could do about that, and I just
didn't give up. From there, I just reported what happened
to anybody I could that would listen, and ultimately, yeah,

(10:27):
I kind of felt a little bit crazy going off,
there's something going on in Mexico you don't understand. But
it really it paid off because finally I got in
front of the right people and I ended up speaking
to the FBI, and the FBI was able to take
my report and do something about it. They went down

(10:47):
into Mexico and they shut COSA down. They had a
joint task force with the Mexican federal allies and they
were able to shut CASA down in two thousand and four.
The reasons that they got shut down for were minimal
compared to what was really going on there. But ultimately,

(11:10):
I do feel that just that one phone call that
I was able to make made a huge difference. And
feeling empowered like that, knowing that our voices could have
the power to actually stop the abuse, to stop this corruption,

(11:32):
to shut these places down, I just found it as
my purpose. I said, I'm I'm going to do this
until all WASP is gone. And from there it became
a little bit of a snowball effect. We did start
a lawsuit on behalf of three hundred and fifty plaintiffs

(11:55):
that had a pretty integral role in taking down WASP.
And I've said to several other survivors that have felt like, oh, well,
I haven't I haven't done enough, But you did. You
shared your story and it had such an impact. Sharing
your story with that lawsuit alone took WASP down. And

(12:19):
that's three hundred and fifty survivors that came forward and
spoke their truth and it had such an impact. Now
we can't say that the WASP program model is gone.
It permeates the industry. It is definitely part of it's
the cornerstone of how these programs are run. But I

(12:40):
can say that there has absolutely been progress with the
widespread awareness of these programs and the abuse in congregate,
Karen general, we have a much better per perspective now

(13:02):
as a society as to you know, sending your kid
away isn't glamorous, sending your kid away to some fancy
boarding school is there, and there absolutely should be a
stigma to that, And I think that we're changing the
way that this concept is really seen on a public scale.

(13:28):
So I really do have to give a lot of
credit to Paris of course for using her platform and
opening this up. It's gotten way more, It's gotten way
more views obviously on social media and with the documentary
and everything, and that really did open us up for
the opportunity to to speak and to speak widely and

(13:51):
to have our voices heard.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think mainstream media does allow the
acceleration of movements, and so documentary and Catherine's documentary and
all the different stuff that every single person on this roundtable,
as well as so many survivors you know, have done
on social media is truly aiding in this movement for change,

(14:14):
which is incredible, and so Caroline, I would just really
love for you to give us some insight into where
the movement is today. You have obviously been working side
by side with us at eleven eleven to help pass
laws to reform the troubled teen industry and make sure
that no more children are trapped in treatment.

Speaker 7 (14:29):
So where are we?

Speaker 3 (14:32):
So?

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Really, you know, survivors have been speaking out for a
couple of decades and we really started to see things
change as Paris came out with her documentary This is Paris,
and really since then it has become an issue that
most people know about. In fact, just yesterday I was

(14:54):
speaking with a random stranger that I bumped into because
that's just kind of the person that I and she
was asking me about what I do for work, and
I was explaining the advocacy work that we do around
youth residential treatment facilities, and she said, you know what,
I actually just saw a documentary about that, and she

(15:16):
already knew about it. And so it's incredible what we've
been able to create and build by telling our stories,
which of course has taken a lot of time. But
I think what we see now with the movement is
that things are ramping up now that the awareness is there,
the eyes are there. We have journalists who are actively
watching situations, waiting for something to happen so they can

(15:37):
report on it. And that is really the transparency and
accountability that we've needed with this industry for many, many years.
And so with that, of course, our goal is to
prevent any other survivors from having to go through what
we've been through. But I will say one of the
biggest changes that I've noticed is now have elected officials

(16:02):
who come to us, We have states who are wanting
to take action, who are already taking the lead on
the issue in their own state. And I think that
that's really the biggest part of any social movement is
once people feel that burden on their shoulders that they
need to do something about it, then that's really where
change is made.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
And Catherine, I have to give it to you because
your critically acclaimed docuseries the program has absolutely made incredible
waves in our efforts to not only raise awareness, but
truly educate and bring people in on what it feels
like to experience all the punitive you know, punishment and

(16:44):
methods that you for you know uniquely and so unfortunately
had to experience And so I want to kind of
dive into that a little bit. Why why was it
so important for you to tell your story?

Speaker 8 (16:58):
Well, it's funny because for a long time, when I
first started working on the documentary back in twenty ten,
I was not going to include my story. I am
much more comfortable behind the camera than in front of it.
And I also felt like I didn't have the worst
of it, like I was there and just the base
level of it is bad enough for sure. But I
wanted to make the documentary about the industry and explain

(17:20):
the methodology have these places. I never wanted to center myself,
and it took a lot of convincing to get me
to put my story in it. And once we found
that the building was abandoned with all of our files
in it, and I found my own personal file and
I'm looking.

Speaker 7 (17:35):
Through it, I'm like, oh shit, I'm gonna have to
be in this now.

Speaker 8 (17:37):
Because when you're looking for you know, as a director,
when you're looking for people to feature, it's like, Okay,
well who knows about this, who can explain it well?
And who do we have a good archive for? And
so not only did we have my file, but if
you watch the series, I filmed everything my whole life,
like I had this amazing archive of childhood, Like everything

(18:00):
was documented. So I was like, Okay, fine, if I'm
going to tell my story, then I'm going to tell
it the way I would tell a story, which was
very snarky and with a lot.

Speaker 7 (18:07):
Of dark humor.

Speaker 8 (18:08):
But I am going to bring all my friends along
for the ride, because not all the stuff happened to
me in particular, but I know the people it did
happen to. So I'll use myself as this narrative thread
to bring all these other survivors and storylines along and
just jump down that rabbit hole along with me.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So I also think it's so interesting that you told
the story over the course of ten years, which is
a really long time to live in your lived experience
in the way that you did. And so I'm curious,
I mean, did that impact you. What was it like
filming for that long of a period.

Speaker 8 (18:46):
Yeah, I mean, well it was in spurts as well,
because there's definitely a dormant period. I got out of
the program in two thousand and five, had very dark years.
We all do trying to adjust to society when we
first get out two thousand and six. I went to
film school, and so when I graduated in twenty ten,
I was like, all.

Speaker 7 (19:03):
Right, hit the ground running.

Speaker 8 (19:04):
Time to start filming and find out the facts, because
there really were not many resources out at the time
when I first got out, and I will say much later,
I really built on work that Chelsea Filer had, like
they were creating. Chelsea really created with Will survivors, gathering
all the information that wasn't available for us when we
first got out of the program. I remember googling trying

(19:26):
to find out like any information because I didn't know
these places exist and existed.

Speaker 7 (19:31):
Until I was in it.

Speaker 8 (19:32):
And I was like, if people knew about this, they'd
be furious. They'd be like, send the cameras.

Speaker 7 (19:37):
Let's let's get this sou.

Speaker 8 (19:41):
From twenty ten to twenty thirteen, I was just flying
all over the country, putting things on my credit cards,
trying to find anyone to talk to me. And it
was really Maya Salovitz's book Help at any Cost, How
the troubled teen industry, COM's parents and hurts kids that
blew opened this whole world for me. I think she
really the first person to kind of piece everything together,

(20:04):
and it was amazing.

Speaker 7 (20:05):
It was so validating.

Speaker 8 (20:06):
Was the first time that an adult and an authority
figure said hey, what happened to is not right and
here's why and spelled it out. Because you have to remember,
when we got out of the programs, we were told
that what happened to us was normal and that we
deserved it, and I just refused to normalize it. I
was like, no, this is not okay. I don't really

(20:27):
know why. I don't have the vocabulary or education to
articulate that yet, but I'm going to find out. For me,
the process of making the documentary and doing this investigation
was very therapeutic because that's how I coped. That's how
I tried to make sense of the trauma that I
experienced and what happened to me.

Speaker 7 (20:47):
It just didn't make sense, and so I tried to
make sense of it the way I always did is
through film.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
I do see a lot of you know, head nodding
as we talk about this, and as you know Captain
shares her experience. I'm just curious from anybody who you
know wants to jump in and chair, did you have
that same reckoning when you got out and you were like,
this is not okay, I'm not going to believe this,
or you know, for some of you did you believe it,

(21:14):
and it didn't come till later when you really found
your voice.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
Both honestly, like I, at first, I knew what I
went through was wrong, but kind of like what Catherine
was saying, like I didn't, I didn't have the vocabulary
or the understanding of why. So that came like several
several years later that I actually understood exactly why it
was wrong, that it was abuse, you know what kind
of abuse it was, you know, and then could actually

(21:39):
like do any sort of meaningful advocacy.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
But I can relate to that a lot.

Speaker 5 (21:46):
I certainly relate to the experience of reading my selves
of its book and just being mind blown with how
validating it was. It truly put it into perspective. You
did a lot of great research into that. It is
still to this day, probably the most accurate she wrote

(22:10):
the book on the trouble tea industry. Quite literally, it
really broke it down into it leaves you with so
many questions, like how is this still a thing I
can understand? Before the dawn of the Internet, that these
people were getting away with locking children in closets and

(22:33):
dog cages and you know, abusing them and threatening to
break their legs and all the sexual abuse that was
going on in these places is completely rampant. But that
doesn't make sense in this day and age. It doesn't
make sense. It's almost like there's no excuse because now
there is so much information online. How are these places

(22:57):
still operating? How are the same abusers still in business?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
If you have made it all the way to episode
twelve of Trapped in Treatment, then hopefully we have helped
to answer really those exact questions that you just laid out, Chelsea.
I mean, that was our goal, so hopefully if you're listening,
you understand it a little bit better.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
One thing that I felt that was really originally hard
to explain was seminars, but I love the way it
has been presented in the program. Just the visual representation
finding those wrapped up towels and the palms up, palms down,

(23:44):
just it was so gripping. It's hard to explain it
unless you're there and you put us back in the program.
We've gotten you lots of good responses from in the
wasat survivors support group lots of people coming forward and
telling their story now, and said, this is the first

(24:07):
time I've ever been able to explain what happened to
me to other people, to my family, to my friends,
and it's really helped to make those conversations easier than
it had been previously. I think we can all agree
that talking about the program kind of makes you feel crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
So I want to I want to go back to
present day both you know, Catherine to start, but also Caroline,
because of your loved experience with Ivory Ridge. How how
does this momentum feel like when it comes to your
particular program.

Speaker 8 (24:41):
I mean, I'm cautiously optimistic. What is more encouraging to
me is that we finally have convinced parents. I don't
know if legal stuff or you know, what will happen
with the New York AG and with Ivory Ridge in particular,
but at least this can help parents understand what has
happened and give a framework for them to believe us.

(25:04):
Because the number one thing that shuts down programs is awareness.
And usually people don't want to talk about this stuff
because it's embarrassing, it's the most traumatic, it's the most
you know, dirty laundry part of our lives. Who wants
to talk about it, who wants to expose it? But
you know, abuse thrives in silence, and these programs banked

(25:26):
on us not talking about it. They did not want
us to find each other after the program.

Speaker 7 (25:30):
They did not. When we first got out, my space
was just becoming a thing.

Speaker 8 (25:33):
Look what we have now now everyone's online speaking out
about this. So that is what gives me hope, is
the fact that our stories are out there now for
everyone to know, so they can't hide behind this facade
of what they pretend the program is and how they
market it to parents.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Carolyn, do you feel the same or do you feel
a little bit differently about it.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
When I first kind of started having this reckoning with
my own story, I of course was like, I've got
to do something. I've got to sue someone. Someone has
to pay the price, you know, for what happened. I
was just like, you know, just having this internal rage
of figuring out what can I do? And so I
had actually met with an attorney and several of us

(26:19):
survivors from the academy at Ivy Ridge had you know,
submitted our testimonies to this attorney and it was so
frustrating to me because at the time, and this was
just maybe four years ago or so, and he was like, yeah, listen, like,
you know, due to statute of limitations and other limitations,

(26:40):
wasp by now has already been dissolved as an entity.
So there's really not anyone that you can pursue. And
so I am reluctant to say that, you know, my
fear is is that we'll end up in that same
situation with the New York Attorney General. But I do think,
you know, the fact that their office is putting resources

(27:02):
to this says something. And just as you know, this
has now become an issue that most people know. I
think in the state of New York, this is an
issue that New Yorkers are going to know because it
is so close to home. So I think in that way,
the change that has been made is significant.

Speaker 5 (27:22):
You know. I might actually point out that New York
is one of the states that sends the most kids
out from their state into Utah, for instance, into the
troubled team industry. So the more that states like New

(27:42):
York are paying attention to this issue, the more opportunity
we have to prevent kids from getting sent to these places,
prevent these places from even being able to run within
the States. So no matter it comes from this investigation,
it is opening the door for conversation to be had

(28:07):
for progress. We are hoping to be able to pass
more legislation in New York, and I know that there
are plenty of programs in New York right now. There
has been some uh, some efforts and some real wins
for survivors in New York. They were able to pass

(28:30):
a law that increased the statute of limitations on sexual abuse,
and they were able to get some convictions or actually,
i'm sorry, they were able to get a lawsuit going
and it was successful.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
So and I think what the underscore is too is
just that you know, survivors had really have really had
to take this issue into their own hands. And almost
every example of progress that's been made over the course
of twenty years, which is really thanks to the four
people on this call, has been survivor and lived experience

(29:10):
led which is wild. And you know, Caroline, you touched
on an important point that while WASP is dissolved, the
influence has lived on the influence is alive today and
there are still programs operating that have that WASP influence,
and you know one of those is in Jamaica. And

(29:35):
Chelsea Maldonado, you just have such a miraculous story and
you recently traveled to Jamaica and you set foot on
Tranquility Bay for the first time in twenty years since
you got out. And so if you could just walk
us through the circumstances in which you returned, and you
know what it was like for you to do so

(29:55):
as an independent adult and not a team.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, it's been a wild journey.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
So I was actually I was contacted by a parent
who had a child at a facility in Jamaica that
had been shut down and their child was taken into
child welfare custody there in Jamaica CPFSA, and so, you know,
I began chatting with the parent kind of learning more
about what was going on, and discovered that actually eight

(30:24):
children had been taken from this facility and there were
very serious allegations of abuse and neglect. One of the
children had been returned to the United States, but the
other seven were actually being held in group homes in Jamaica.
And so that really just like motivated me to go

(30:44):
ahead and book a trip to Jamaica and contact Paris
and the team and loop in some different attorneys and
experts and just kind of take a stab at seeing
if we could help. So that was a really it
was a good reason to travel back to the island.
And it was definitely surreal to return to Treasure Beach
and to see Tranquility Bay like with my own eyes,

(31:07):
you know. And I left, I always kind of envisioned
returning and doing something to like help the kids that
were still trapped in Tranquility Bay. I don't know, I
have lots of dumb plans, but I never did. So
I felt really guilty about like never, I guess, never
doing anything to help anyone else, like this kind of
survivor's guilt. So this was a way I was able
to kind of heal some of that, I guess. So
that's been exciting.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
And has it? I mean we're going to we're going
to go through some more about your journey, but what
you know.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Did it?

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Did it heal it? Being in the town for such
a long period of time, Like what what new revelations
or feelings do you have about that town now?

Speaker 6 (31:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (31:49):
So it was I mean something that was always really
important to me and something I've talked about since leaving
is that, you know, I kind of knew this was
a very special place, right, Like Treasure Beach is this
very new, in artsy and very beautiful town. And I
didn't want my experience at Tranquility Bay to take away
my ability to like experience and enjoy you know, both

(32:10):
the culture and people of Jamaica. And so you know,
coming back and spending a month in Treasure Beach like
definitely hammered home that, like, yes, I love this town,
like despite all the horrible things that I went through
there as a team, like as an adult, I genuinely
love the area. And it was nice to I guess,
be able to like experience normalcy and fun and lightness

(32:33):
and all of these you know, human dignity, these things
that we didn't have in Tranquility Bay, you know, in
the same place.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
So that was healing. That was definitely healing.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
It was strange to see Tranquility Bay itself like it
has not changed much at all, Like the facility looks
pretty much exactly the same. So that was really strange
to see and to be there. But also like, yeah,
healing in a way because I was able to like
walk out the gate, you know, at the end of it,

(33:04):
like goodbye.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
So that was great.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Well, it's important, and we're so proud of you because
I can't even imagine what it is like. I mean,
Catherine can imagine, because Catherine's done it too, She's gone
back to Academy at Ivy Ridge. But it does it
takes so much courage to step back there as an
independent adult and obviously do what you've done, which is
continue to advocate and protect kids, even if it wasn't

(33:28):
at the same program, but it's at a different one.
And so I would love for you to shed a
little bit of light on what happened at Atlanti's Leadership
Academy in Treasure Beach.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
So Atlanta's Leadership Academy was a fairly small residential program
that was operating in Treasure Beach. It was actually started
by a survivor of WASP who then went on to
become an employee for WASP. It's been operating for several
years and there were eight youths being housed there and
the allegations that they reported were incredibly horrific. I mean,

(34:00):
these boys described being eaten They described being starved, subjected
to horrific stress positions, just stuff that's, you know, some
of the most horrific stuff that I have read in
terms of survivor stories. And I've been doing this a
really long time, so that was really hard. And then

(34:22):
just seeing these kids kind of in limbo for so long.
I mean, they were they were taken in early February.
There are still two boys in Jamaica right now, and
so there's a lot of uncertainty, you know, around what
happens next. You know, where am I going? Are my
parents going to come and get me, do they care,
do they believe me? You know, will I'd be sent
to another program? Will I ever be able to come home?

(34:46):
So yeah, that's that's been a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
You touched on this a tiny bit, but I am curious.
You know, you said that there was a connection to
WASP and at Lanternship Leadership Academy. Can you kind of
share a little bit more about that.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Atlanti's Leadership Academy's founder Randy Cook, he's actually a survivor
of Paradise Coat in Samoa, which we discussed on the
podcast this season, and then from there he went on
to actually work in wasp's corporate office. His mom was
actually the editor of The Source, which was the newsletter
that we all loved and appreciated that was put out.

(35:25):
And it's my understanding that he may have also operated
some other facilities. So Randy Cook has denied all the
allegations and continues to deny them. But yeah, so he
worked for WAST and went to Treasure Beach where WASP
previously opened Tranquility Bay, and opened his own facility there.

(35:45):
And at least some of the staff were previously employed
at Tranquility Bay before coming to Atlantis Leadership Academy.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
And so, you know, I had the incredible opportunity to
go with you to Jamaica and Chelsea. You really did
pull together, really like this family of just people who
care about it. I mean, you brought in Don Post,
You brought in Mike McFarlane, who's an incredible lawyer too.

(36:15):
You brought in Decca, who was the first journalist who
ever got access to Tranquility Bay, and she's you know,
obviously a big part of our episode about Tranquility Bay.
What was it like reconnecting with Decca and bringing her
into another breaking story in the same town.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
I mean that was just kind of like a fangirl
dream come true. To be honest, I mean I have
shared Decca's story about Tranquility Bay probably like one hundred
times a year since it came out. It's like my
go to article of like what was Tranquility Bay, like
like here part one and part two of The Guardian,
and so you know, even just like having her on
the podcast was really exciting for me, And so when

(36:56):
I reached out to her, I thought, you know, there's
probably a I don't know first limit that she would
do this. She's not you know, generally doing investigative journalism anymore,
Like this is a much smaller facility. So it was
amazing that she actually responded and she was interested, and
then to finally like meet with her and work with
her own project was honestly just like a dream come true.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
So very very exciting.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
And so from your perspective, I mean, what was the
outcome of what happened when all of us kind of
rated in on Jamaica. I mean, we this for the
people listening, and we do we do describe it so
accurately in the podcast about Tranquility Bay. But this is
a tiny, tiny town with like one main road. I mean,

(37:43):
every single person knows each other in this town, and
so you know, Chelsea, what was it like having you know,
Paris and our team at eleven eleven and Decca and
all of these incredible human rights lawyers kind of descend
on Treasure Beach to help these kids.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
I mean, that was one of the coolest things I
think I've ever seen, right, Like to see all of
these people pull together, you know, travel to this remote
destination that's really hard to get to, that's you know,
definitely out of the way. Things were kind of dicey
safety wise at times. You know, we didn't know like
who we could trust, who we could not trust, you know,
who was telling the truth to us. Yeah, that was

(38:25):
that was so awesome, and especially to Paris, Like for
Paris to come all the way out to the courthouse
in Santa Cruz, which is I mean, very very few
people I think have ever meant to Santa Cruz, Jamaica,
you know in general from America. So like that that
was just cool to see. And then the actual press
that came out of it, right, Like, I think this

(38:45):
could have easily been something that no one ever heard about.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
I think that was actually kind of the intent.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Had we not done that, there's a very strong likelihood
that they could have either quietly reopened or transferred these
kids to other TTI facilities. So I think we were
able to actually make a really positive outcome for a
lot of these these youth.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
And I just I loved Paris was so moved by
the experience, because you know, a lot of the work
that we do is policy work. We're meeting with lawmakers,
we're talking about the issues, but we don't get to
see really like the active influence that we can have
on like a young person, and so being there and

(39:31):
just seeing them so lost and just like having people
that were truly there for them was like a life
changing experience for me, for Paris and for everybody else
who had that opportunity. And you know, when Paris got
home from that crazy day in Jamaica, she made that TikTok.

(39:54):
She was just like, I will find you, and I
do think that you know, they're there are so many
survivors here that are working day in and day out
to track the movements of these facilities and try to
get to the bottom of it and legitimately try to
save human beings lives, and so Chelsea, I mean, you

(40:18):
exposed a ginormous international loophole. That is something that we
will continue to dive down and will continue to try
and fix. I mean, in Jamaica, there are kids, mostly
formally adopted youth, who are being placed in Jamaican facilities
because their parents don't want them and they're left there
until they turn eighteen. They're being used as diversion programs.

(40:41):
It's just it's just truly mind boggling, and the United
States needs to figure out a way to track and
a way to get these youth back home because you know,
what you brought to light is really really horrific, and
I'm sure that we're going to see a lot more,
you know, in terms of where this comes from.

Speaker 8 (41:04):
I love that WASP has just created a generation of
armshair detectives. We're all keeping tabs on everything, you know, Chelsea, Caroline,
everyone just like we're all in this network of survivors
being like, what have you heard? What's the latest tip?

Speaker 7 (41:20):
Who's there?

Speaker 5 (41:20):
What a lake?

Speaker 8 (41:21):
So they can't get away with it now with us
watching them at the very least, like we're on to them.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
I love being in our detective It's like the most
fun part of this work.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
So yeah, I love that.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
No.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
I mean, you we talked a lot about what Chelsea
Filer has been doing, you know, over the course of
the last two decades, what Catherine's been doing, what Caroline's
been doing with all the policy work. But you've been
behind the scenes too for a very, very, very long time.
Is there anything that we do not know about the
work that you've done?

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Oh, they don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
Maybe I just usually am behind the scenes. I'm much
more comfortable like doing the research reports and putting together
all the information we use for you know, our various
projects and podcasts and posts.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
So yeah, I'm like the fact binder person.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
There's a lot up in your brain.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
I know, we're all walking encyclopedias of WASP and TTI
related information, and I mean you pretty much have to
create documentaries and websites just to dump it all off somewhere,
and you know, I think that that's actually been one
of the best things about us becoming these armchair detectives

(42:44):
is that we really have put a ton of information
online that was not there previously, and that helps parents
to make more educated decisions when it comes to finding
placements for their kids. Ultimately, I I'm pretty proud of us.
I think that that has made it a really big difference.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
Like I mean, the boys from Atlanta's Leadership Academy, Like
the first thing that they did when they got access
to Internet was they discovered Reddit trouble Teens, and it
was like this mind blowing experience for them to feel like,
oh my god, Like other people have talked about Atlanta's,
like other people have talked about this industry, and so like,
I mean, I remember when there wasn't read at trouble teens,
Like I think we all were early contributors to Reddit

(43:26):
trouble teens. Like it's cool to know that that work
is actually like doing something and it's being read by
people who actually, you know, need to read it.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
So so that's exciting and that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
And I think for that reason, parents and child placing
agencies now really don't have an excuse to not know
because it's there, it's googleable, the information is out there,
the stories are out there. And I think you know,
in my mom's case, when when you heard her story
this season, you know that in for me wasn't there

(44:00):
at the time, or it was really difficult to find
and it was hidden under all of these layers of
you know, marketing and you know SEO that the industry
had done to make themselves more available. But now, and
I think that's really again just the most powerful thing
that we've been able to create is the information is there.
There's reliable news stories, there's survivors stories, and so you know,

(44:25):
we have to find better resources for kids. So this
is not the only option that pops up. And I
actually I did an experiment on my TikTok recently and
I asked people to Google. Right, so these are people
as far as like Scotland, Australia, all throughout the United States.
I asked them to Google help for my team. And

(44:47):
if you guys remember from earlier this season, that's that's
exactly what parents were googling twenty days ago. And guess
what was popping up Troubled Team programs. And so the
same thing is even happening now. These Trouble teen programs
are continuing to pop up. But the interesting thing that
I noticed from this little social experiment that I did

(45:07):
is that anyone who was international, anyone who was in
another country, the first thing that popped up was mental
health resources, it was counseling, it was not these Trouble
teen programs. But right as soon as you scroll past
those sponsored ads, which are these TTI programs, then all
of a sudden you see the survivor stories.

Speaker 8 (45:28):
By everyone coming forward, sharing their stories, putting online, getting
all this stuff out there. You know, like you said, Caroline,
no one has an excuse anymore when they google, because
they won't just see the marketing, they'll see the prime.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
That's there, the trauma m and so, you know, with
all of the work that has been done by you
all and by so many other members of this survivor community,
I'm just curious, you know, and I would love a
brief note from each of you. You know, where do
each of you want to go from here? And let's
start with Chelsea Maldonado.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
I mean, I feel like I'm on a really good
path now, you know, between researching and working with y'all
on policy and advocacy, Like I really like the work
that I'm doing with eleven eleven, so continuing that, continuing
to be the girl with all of the spreadsheets and
the random information and fact sheets.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, forever, facts forever.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
And what about you, Catherine.

Speaker 8 (46:28):
Oh Man well, honestly, after finishing the documentary, pardon me,
just wants to rest. It feels like I've been running
this marathon for so long, just trying to get the
story out there and you know, do my art, and
so I want to recover, you know, but you also
can't go through something like what we all went through

(46:48):
and continue just living a normal life knowing that.

Speaker 7 (46:51):
There are kids still trapped in these places.

Speaker 8 (46:53):
So I don't know if I can ever not stop,
you know, investigating, exploring and you know, randomly flying out
to what other programs are going on and getting footage
of what's happening and reporting it because it's just you know,
once you know, you can't unsee it, and you know,
it's just you just got to keep going and find

(47:14):
out what's next until it stops.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
And Chelsea Tyler, what about you.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
Well, I'm really encouraged to see that we're going to
continue on down the path with legislation both on state
and federal levels. We have seen quite a bit of
success on the state level. That's extremely exciting. We at

(47:41):
I Kappa are working on a multi state compact, which
we're really excited about. Of course, there's federal legislation, Sika
I Kappa. We're really excited to see the progress there.
We're going to focus on that. We're going to focus
on trying to rain the sind, to control it, and

(48:01):
to track these kids. None of these kids should be untraceable,
especially if they're getting sent into a state where these
programs aren't even licensed. So there needs to be something
in place. And I do see this as kind of
like a long term thing in general. We're just going
to keep taking it step by step, even when the
first step is, hey, we don't know what's going on here,

(48:23):
where's the data to prove that there's a problem. Okay,
pass a law, Let's get that data. Okay, next step,
next step, let's enforce this, let's come up, come up
with new rules. So I do see a lot of
opportunity here for us when it comes to legislation, and
we're going to keep fighting for those kids because we
know what they're going through.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
And you know, really just echoing Chelsea's sentiment is that
like the work is never done.

Speaker 7 (48:50):
It really is whack a mole.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Once you take care of one thing and you pass
one law, then there's another issue that pops up. So
I think that we still have a lot of work
ahead of us. And if you're listening to this and
you're drawn to want to do something, I definitely encourage
you to visit our website, Stop Institutional child Abuse dot com,
connect with us, join the fight, join the mission. And

(49:13):
so we are going to continue working on passing legislation
in all fifty states and our federal bill to Stop
Institutional Child Abuse Act. And then, you know, personally, really
where I feel like my heart is drawn is working
on the preventative side of things. How do we get
resources to kids? How do we connect parents, their families,

(49:35):
child placing agencies with the resources that they actually need.
And I a conversation that I've continued to have with
survivors and even with some folks here today who are
on this roundtable, is you know, how different would my
life have looked if I actually got the help that
I needed back then, if there was actually some kind

(49:57):
of therapy or counseling or other mentorship resource something like
that that could have intervened when I was fourteen, fifteen,
sixteen years old? And what kind of stress and further
trauma would that have prevented in my life? And so
I as much as I think regulating this industry is

(50:19):
so crucial and a key aspect of what we're doing,
I also think that we have to work towards getting
people the resources that they need. That's why people are
relying on this industry so much, is it's just not there.

Speaker 7 (50:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (50:34):
Absolutely, the whole reason this industry exists is because there
just haven't been good resources for families in a crisis.

Speaker 7 (50:41):
And you know, the.

Speaker 8 (50:43):
Question people always ask is, Okay, if not these programs,
then what then what's the answer?

Speaker 7 (50:49):
And I mean there's not going to be one simple answer.

Speaker 8 (50:53):
And these programs like to make parents think that there
is one answer, that there is one one stop shop,
one size fits all.

Speaker 7 (50:58):
Approach towards deal with a wide variety of behavioral issues
and children, and there's just not. So it's never going
to be easy.

Speaker 8 (51:07):
It's like get this one law passed, or just do
this one thing. It's a complicated, multifaceted approach, and it's
going to vary from child to child to family and family.
But if we can hopefully create some sort of resource
toolkit and you know, pull all this shared knowledge from
what we've all gone through, what we experienced, what we know,

(51:27):
what we wish we had when we were in this
and make that available so that the next generation of
children and families don't have to go through what we
went through.

Speaker 7 (51:36):
That would be great.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Well, you four truly, truly just inspire me. And I've
learned so much from all four of you and from
so many others who have been part of this movement
over the last four years and beyond. And I'm so
grateful that you have vulnerably shared your story with the world.
And I really, adamantly do believe that you know, you

(52:00):
for in Paris and everybody else are going to be
catalyst for change. So thank you for being a part
of this. I know this conversation and this work will
never stop. We're all going to be like ninety years old,
still on Zoom having these conversations, but it's worth it.
And I can't remember who said it, but like once
you know, you know, and I truly do feel like

(52:23):
that's the case. So I hope we've inspired everybody who's listening,
who got through the program, who got through season two
of Trapped in Treatment to get involved in help. And
you're right that there's no you know, there's no one
fit approach, and so I think everybody's backgrounds and everybody's expertise,

(52:43):
no matter what it is, can aid in this fight
for justice for survivors and for protection and rights for
children still trapped in treatment or who will be unfortunately
trapped in treatment. So with that, I just wanted to
say thank you so much, and we appreciate you.

Speaker 9 (53:04):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Rebecca.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
That was so powerful. I love having any opportunity to
talk with my fellow survivors about their personal experiences. And
hearing what Chelsea Maldonado had to say about returning to
Tranquility Bay after twenty years really hit home for me.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
It really did, and getting to see Chelsea Maldonado in
Jamaica in real time experiencing and healing was truly one
of my favorite moments over the past four years of advocacy.
And it's just still so unnerving to me that while
a business entity can close, if the people at the
helm of it aren't held accountable, then there's still nothing

(54:00):
stopping them from continuing to opening programs. I hope that
all of the listeners are inspired by these stories and
that they stand up and join this cause, because to me,
once you know about the abuse that happens at the
hands of this industry, you can't turn away. And because
this is the final episode of season two of Trapped

(54:20):
in Treatment, we also sat down with Paris to hear
her thoughts on the past few years, this podcast and
all of the work we've been doing together. Let's take
a listen to kind of you know, take a step
back for a second. It's been a true honor for
me to watch you both come into your voice and

(54:40):
come into your story, and I think this conversation is
is very interesting to watch you both in terms of
how you talk about your experience and the different aspects
that you share now is so different than what you shared,
you know two years ago. Has sharing your story kind
of brought up so much more for you in terms

(55:00):
of your understanding of the industry.

Speaker 6 (55:03):
So much It's just been just this whole journey of
like self discovery and realizing so many things about myself
and why I am the way I am. And it
just like how many things stem back to this place
that I had, you know, no idea until I had
the time to actually think about it and talk to
other people who've experienced the same things. When you're in there,

(55:25):
you just it's you don't you forget like who you are,
and they just tear you down so much where and
you're not allowed to speak, like you're silent the whole time.
You can't talk to anyone, you can't say anything, so
like when you finally get out of there, like you
don't even know how to like communicate with people in
the outside world because you've just been silenced for so
long that it's hard to even put things into words.

(55:48):
And just the shame that they instill in you, where
you think that you're the bad kid and you are
constantly being told that you're worthless and you're never going
to amount to anything, and just I don't know, I
just like forgot who I was in there, and it
was really hard just to like rebuild myself coming out
of there. It was like not even until like a

(56:10):
few years ago for my documentary This is Paris, when
I finally open up about this, where I literally just
had no clue who I was. I just like all
of my kind of all the like walls I built
and like all the the coping mechanisms that I guess
I developed from just the torture of being at these places.

Speaker 10 (56:33):
Just I don't know.

Speaker 6 (56:35):
I'm like finally figuring out and finding myself now, but
it's just crazy to me that it took so many
years to do that. But now I'm noticing that's that's
a normal thing that happens to basically every single person
who goes through these places.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
You can like physically hear it in your voice actually,
which is it's a really really cool thing to be
a part of. Is like seeing how open and free
you are and how much easier it is to express
your experience and how you feel, and kind of what
the last two years have been. So I applaud you
for that because it's really it's been amazing work.

Speaker 6 (57:11):
Yeah, I definitely held it in for so long that
I did not even know how to put it into words.
So it does feel really like a lot of weight
off my shoulders and knowing that I'm speaking for others
and I have such a massive platform that could reach
all around the entire world, and I'm so proud to

(57:33):
be able to use it in this way to make
an impact and difference just to stop this happening from
other children. And I'm so proud that just of everything
that's happened so far, because this has made so much impact,
and it's just opened up the door for so many
other people to come and feel safe to tell their stories.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
I mean, being a parent, now you have a parent perspective.
Caroline does as well, and she illuminates on that throughout
the episode. But I had the pleasure of speaking to
Caroline's mom during this season, and that was episode six
about the parent.

Speaker 6 (58:04):
Mom was amazing. I was just listening to her. She
has obviously been through hell with these places, but I
was just so impressed with the way, like I would
love for her to speak to my mom and just
talk with her about it.

Speaker 10 (58:17):
I want, I want.

Speaker 6 (58:18):
As I was listening, I'm like, I want my mom
to listen to this episode because I feel like she
just feels, you know, so guilty and so upset because
she had no idea. But when you listen to these episodes,
you understand it's not the parents' fault. Like they're completely
lied to, completely manipulated.

Speaker 10 (58:35):
They have no idea.

Speaker 6 (58:36):
They think that they're saving their child, and there's these
experts telling them all this, and it's just it's just
so disgusting that this has went on for decades and
decades and these people are getting away with it and
still are today. You know, I know that we've made
so much impact and difference with the whole survivor community,
all of us speaking out, But you know, it's it's

(58:59):
not an en.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I mean, we're breaking down barriers of a ginormous industry.
This is an industry that praise on children, but it
is equally an industry that puys on the parents. Yes,
and so I think that came across really clear in
that episode. So I want to ask you both this question,
and you can choose Caroline or Paris who you want

(59:21):
to go first. But I'm curious what one or two
of the most memorable moments over the last two years
of advocating for reforming the troubled teen industry has been.

Speaker 10 (59:32):
The most memorable.

Speaker 9 (59:34):
Paris, you can go first, the most memorable.

Speaker 6 (59:36):
There's been so many amazing moments, just first, like going
to Provocanian School and being outside there with hundreds of
other survivors and reconnecting with people and just all coming
together and telling our story and walking in front of

(59:57):
Provo and letting them all see us, even when and
they called the police on us, just to kind of
like see like, oh wow, now you guys are scared,
like you scared all of us for a long time,
and now you guys are going to know how it feels.
And then again when we are in Utah at the
state Capitol, it was really hard to be up there

(01:00:20):
and testify and tell my story, but so empowering to
be able to be up there in front of all
the senators on the committee telling my story and to
see some of them getting really emotional, like some of
them had tears in her eyes, and then hearing their
words after how all of them said they had no
idea this was happening. So just the fact to be

(01:00:41):
able to tell people what is happening in their state,
and then to have SB one seven past and then
going to Washington, d C. All the moments I could say,
like one hundred moments. It's just been amazing just meeting
the community and just see how far that we've come.

(01:01:01):
We have a lot more work to do, but it's
it's been very healing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
So I think one of my most favorite memories is
also from Utah and specifically when we were testifying in
the Senate Judiciary Committee, and I think we were at
that time done with our testimonies and the senators were
starting to respond to what we had said, and Senator

(01:01:29):
Kitchen looked at us and he apologized. He said, I
am so sorry that we have failed you. And I
remember hearing that in that moment, like it makes me
emotional even thinking about it now, but it was like
hearing him say sorry and actually having someone own what

(01:01:51):
happened to us.

Speaker 10 (01:01:52):
Was like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
So healing on such a deep level. And I think
that's probably one of the most mood being memories I have.
But we have We've done a lot in the past
couple of years, and definitely going to the Capital in
DC is you know, massive and has sparked incredible conversation
and I think that we're going to see a great change,
you know, on that level too. But that memory sticks

(01:02:15):
out to me the most.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
I think one that really sticks out for me is
when we were outside of the capital with the solitary
confinement booth, and obviously hundreds of survivors and family members
who've been impacted by the industry were there with us,
And it was after you had gone into the solitary
confinement booth and you walked out and you walked up
to the aunt of a child that had died in

(01:02:39):
a UHS facility, and they are a whole community of
family members of children who have passed away. And she
started bawling, and she just said, I had been waiting
for you for so many years. I had been waiting
for you. I had been waiting for you, and just
watching you embrace her, and just the feeling that like

(01:02:59):
You're story has truly impacted these individuals on such a
deep level. Was I don't know, it will kind of
just like forever be edched in my mind.

Speaker 10 (01:03:10):
I'll never forget that that woman that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:14):
Broke my heart to hear her speak and then for
her to say those words to me just meant so
much to me, and so many words people have said
to me, you know, just to be able to make
such change and to have such an effect in a
positive way on people's lives has been.

Speaker 10 (01:03:33):
It's made it worth it to me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I think also, what I'm hearing you say is like
some of these experiences, being an advocate or an activist,
you know, whatever you want to call yourself is harrowing
and vulnerable and hard and so paris I'm curious. You
have many names and many titles. If you think back

(01:03:58):
to your time in provo and also over the last years.
Could you ever have imagined that, you know, one of
those titles was going to be Advocate?

Speaker 10 (01:04:07):
No, I don't think anyone ever would either.

Speaker 6 (01:04:11):
By all of the titles and names that I'm called,
it's the one that I'm most proud of, and I
think it's definitely the one that's the most unexpected. I
don't think that, you know a few years ago that
anyone would have put the word advocate in Paris Hilton
in the same sentence. But I am so proud of

(01:04:33):
of being an advocate and standing up for what's right.
And you know, I didn't What I went through was
just so painful and traumatic. I never thought I would
even tell the story, So I didn't ever think that
anything like this would happen. But it's just changed my
life in so many ways, and I've never felt more strong, brave,

(01:05:00):
and courageous and just have this fight in me where
I just.

Speaker 10 (01:05:08):
I'm not going to stop until change is made.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Do you think the troubled teen industry advocacy work has
given you more confidence to share kind of all the
pieces of you.

Speaker 10 (01:05:23):
Definitely.

Speaker 6 (01:05:25):
I just feel so empowered by this amazing resilient community
of survivors who've really just help give me that strength.
And just reading letters from people who've experienced the same
thing as me, and on social media and getting emails

(01:05:46):
and just messages from thousands and thousands of people who
have been through the same thing that I have, and
just hearing people's stories every single day.

Speaker 10 (01:05:58):
I'm just.

Speaker 5 (01:06:01):
It.

Speaker 6 (01:06:01):
Just like I said, it doesn't It makes me feel
like I'm not alone anymore. And I'm not ashamed at all.
And I'm proud that I survived this because you're not.
You know, some people aren't. I haven't been able to
because these places break you down so much where some

(01:06:21):
people just don't want to even live anymore. And yeah,
I especially after my book and just seeing it, reading
it out and then just having it all finally written down,
It's just I'm like, Wow, I am like a badass warrior,
like the fuck that I could get through all of

(01:06:42):
us and you know, and now be just be the
hero that I needed when I was a little girl.
And that just makes me feel so proud. And just
seeing these places starting to get shut down, seeing know,
we having parents contact us and having their kids pulled

(01:07:03):
out of Provo and other facilities, like that. So that
just makes me confident even more, just to keep on
speaking and telling my truth and talking about really uncomfortable
things that are hard to talk about that I would
have been too embarrassed and shy and you know, ashamed
to even say to anyone, But it's so important, you know,

(01:07:27):
for myself, And I want to thank all the other
people who are so brave to come out and tell
their stories as well, because it empowers me as well
as so many other people. So anyone listening, and if
you've been holding it in and it's something that.

Speaker 10 (01:07:46):
I don't know that you just haven't been.

Speaker 6 (01:07:47):
Able to say out loud, I really just I don't
know a piece of advice. I promise you that talking
about it and speaking about it with others, especially in
this community, is just so it's comforting and it's also
so incredibly healing, and it's it will help others as well,

(01:08:10):
and holding on to that is only just poisonous inside
of you, and you let it go. It's just like
it's just it's hard to describe it. It's just like
you just have this weight off your shoulders and it's
just like getting rid of this like toxic energy because
it's shame that you should not hold on to It's
a shame that you should put out to these other

(01:08:30):
people and hold them accountable for what they've done to you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
And that's really why we created the podcast. So I'm curious,
you know, we're at the end of our second season.
What you're most proud of about Trapped in Treatment.

Speaker 6 (01:08:44):
Well, I'm proud of both of you girls. I could
not do this without you by my side. And every
episode is just so interesting and scary and terrifying and
brings up so many more memories for me, which is
a bad thing in some ways, but also really good

(01:09:05):
thing because then I'm able to then tell those stories
as well, and then that also sparks conversation for others
who may be blocked out, because you know, when you
go through these things, you just block out that energy
and you don't even I don't know, sometimes you don't remember,
but then it will come back. But I just all

(01:09:25):
the research that you both have done, and all the
interviews and finding all these people and getting people to
talk about it, like ex employees who I'm sure were
terrified to ever speak about it, and making them feel
safe and able to tell these you know, really scary stories,
and especially you know, having to work at these places
and be one of the people in charge. I can't

(01:09:48):
even imagine the guilt that they experience. But I'm sure
by coming on talking to both of you about it,
it's also I'm sure very healing for them that they're
letting that out, something that they've held on to for
so long.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Over the last two years, I've been supporting you and
finding your voice and changing laws, and we've obviously done
such amazing things, but throughout this work of helping you
find yours, you've helped me find mine, and so I'm
just so appreciated. I'm so appreciative to you of the

(01:10:25):
platform and the confidence that you've instilled in us to
keep fighting. And when we were in DC, like it's
just change is so tangible. And that's a very fortunate
and privileged thing to say, of course, because you know,
we've been taught how to change laws, but as we

(01:10:45):
were there, it just made me feel like two years
ago I was I wasn't doing trivial stuff, but like,
in two years, my life has changed so much. And
I think through this podcast, through all the different work
we can do, like we can really inspire people to
know that they can use their voice for change, no

(01:11:06):
matter what the theme or issue area is. And I
think if I was to leave a mark on this
world at all, I think that's what it would be.
Is like, as Amanda Winn says, is penn your own
civil rights into existence. And the three of us here
among you know, all the hundreds of thousands of survivors
that are with us, and all of the listeners that

(01:11:28):
are listening to this and participating and telling their friends
about the podcast and telling their friends about the work.
And obviously it's kind of like a train that keeps
on chugging along. But it really is super, super tangible,
and none of that would happen without you, know, your
trust in us to support you in this way. So
we love you and appreciate you.

Speaker 10 (01:11:48):
I love you too.

Speaker 9 (01:11:49):
Oh, we love you.

Speaker 10 (01:11:51):
I love you girls.

Speaker 6 (01:11:52):
And I'm just just so proud of everything, and I
love you both so much, and wow, like this has
been such an amazing journey and.

Speaker 10 (01:12:03):
This is just the beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
This is just the beginning. We will continue to expose
predatory trouble team programs that capitalize on vulnerable youth and
fight for better solutions alongside Paris.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
To anyone listening who wants to join this fight, there
are so many ways to get involved. You can donate
to the cause, participate in the legislative process by sending
your legislator's emails about the issue, share information on your
social media platforms, and volunteer with us to end institutional
child abuse. Go to www dot Stop Institutional child abuse

(01:12:44):
dot com, and of course, follow Paris and us on
Instagram and TikTok at Trapped in Treatment.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Thank you for your support, for listening and for being
a part of this movement.

Speaker 9 (01:13:00):
We see you, survivor, Hey, it's Paris.

Speaker 6 (01:13:17):
Thanks for listening to season two of Trapped in Treatment.
WASP is just one of thousands of programs that have
left a trail of trauma and the tti. I hope
the season has helped raise awareness. It was our goal
to uncover the past to understand the present in order
to shape the future. I'm not here to pretend the
work is done. It certainly isn't. But together, I'm confident

(01:13:38):
if we use our collective voices to fight, we can
make the change we wish to see in the world.
Thank you for being on this journey with us.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
This season of Trapped in Treatment was brought to you
by London Audio and Telepictures in collaboration with Warner Brothers Television.
Hosted by Rebecca Mellinger, Groene and Caroline Whole. Executive produced
by Paris Hilton, Bruce Gersh and Bruce Robertson. Produced by
Christine Ahanitu, written by Christina Hanitou and Lena Grossman. Music

(01:14:12):
and sound design by Christina Honitou, Mixed and mastered by
Esther Navarez. Research by Chelsea Maldonado. Special thanks to Bob Moehler,
Stephanie Schwartz, David Song, Nicole Cambero, Marissa Somerville, and Noah Young.

Speaker 8 (01:15:00):
Attatatatatatattattattattattatta