November 29, 2023 • 25 mins
Dovid Efune is the Publisher of The New York Sun and Chairman and Founder of The New York Sun Company.
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, everybody, Welcome to the Buck Brief. In this episode,
we're joined by our friend David Efoon. He is the
publisher of the New York Son, which I recommend to
you and tell you that you should subscribe to. David,
Thanks for being here. Let's dive into the situation right
now of the multi day ceasefire hostage exchanges. Tell me
(00:41):
what's going on with this Israel Hamas war as we
sit here and we're as up to date as we
can be.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well, you know, obviously following the horrendous, I mean unspeakable
attack of October seventh, that's been a very obvious and
clear shift in the Israeli mentality of the defense establishment,
certainly across the nation, where you know, after years of
thinking about dealing with some of its most dangerous enemy
(01:10):
in terms of containment, now it's all about preemption and
eliminating threats where they are. And obviously, first and foremost,
the nation has turned its attention to the Hamas threat
in the southwest of the country in Gaza, it took
a little bit of time to get the strategy together,
but they've gone in. Now they have Hamas against the
(01:32):
ropes in avery in a very tough spot, which is
exactly where they want them to be. And you know,
as a product of that, you know, Harmas has really
been begging for a ceasefire, if you will, and you
can see that by the terms in which they have
come to Israel, where they're now sort of taking the
(01:53):
opportunity to release prisoners at a slow drip, release hostages
sorry that they had seized from southern Israel, including a
lot of women and children, mothers and grandmothers and grandfathers,
in exchange for pauses in the fighting, which I think
at this age Hamas sees as being an existential matter.
(02:14):
So these Radis are concerned. You know, obviously, it's a
democratic country. They answer to the people, including the families
of the hostages, and even though this presents for them
a military setback, they're prepared to allow it in order
to be able to release as many of those innocent
civilians as possible. And I think we'll we'll see this
(02:38):
go for as long as Israel feels like it can
bring back civilians out of harm's way, and then we're
going to see all hell break loose again and the
final and hopefully complete demolition of Hamas as a governing
and military entity.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Is their unity in Israel behind net and Yahoo on
this mission to destroy Hamas as an entity in a
way that there similarly was broad unity in the US
after nine to eleven to destroy al Qaeda and finemin Laden.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Absolutely. I mean, look, there is a huge amount of
frustration with the government over how this was able to
happen in the first place, and the response and this
and that, and basically everybody who's in any kind of
position of leadership or punishment or leadership or responsibility is
going to be punished by the electorate. I mean, it's
(03:32):
hard to see a way out of this. In the
end of the day, the buck stops with Niahu and
the military establishment, and you know they will pay the
price for it eventually. In terms of the objectives of
this war, you know, it's it's it's hard to sort
of understate just how unified the country is. I mean,
(03:53):
you do see a lot of international calls for a
permanent ceasefire or you know, hopefully the ceasefire can be extended.
It's just not going to happen. You know, the folks
who are saying things like that, talking about you know,
I saw a BBC political correspondent talking about how Europreme
pressure is going to be so much on Israel they
(04:14):
won't be able to stay. The Israelis. Do not give
a fake what the Belgians or the Spanish or the
Irish chef to say. You know, this is about their security.
It's ex ebstential. And you know, the Hummus has really
sort of poked a sleeping bearness, sleeping giant. Any government
(04:35):
leader or military leader who wants to slow down, you know,
this goal of complete definition demolition of Hummus is going
to get handed out of office.
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your livelihood. It's amazing patriotdefender dot com. How has it
gone so far in terms of the Israeli expectation of
(06:12):
the resistance they would get from Hamas and the speed
with which they would be able to roll up different
elements of that terrorist entity. Is this more or less
what was expected? Has it been tougher fighting? How would
you assess that?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Look, there were obviously major military failures that led to
the attack itself, but ever since that point, the Israelis
have fought like lions and brilliantly and have been incredibly effective.
You know, the last time they went into Gaza was
twenty fourteen, and you know, casualties were a lot higher
(06:46):
than they than they would have liked. I mean, obviously
they don't want any casualties, but higher than they would
have liked and higher than they expected. See, the Israelis
have had about nine years to think and plan and
strategize and build technologies that are specifically designed for exactly
this theater of combat. And you can see now they've
(07:08):
learned a great deal and they put in who act
into into action. And no, I don't know how much
time we have. Obviously there's a lot you can go into.
But one example is and not a lot of people
know this. The Iron Dome missile defense system is quite
famous for intercepting every single that's rarely armored vehicle, including
the America of Ar four BARAQ tanks that came into
(07:31):
operation earlier this year and the NAMA APCs that are
the two main vehicles that Israel is operating in the
Gars of Strip. Every single one of them is fit
is fitted with a mini iron Dome system, you know,
the joint jointly developed with the Americans. Americans call it
the Trophy system, and it's on many ABRAMS tanks as well.
The Israelis called it the Windbreaker, but it intercepts RPGs
(07:54):
and other projectiles and that's saved you know, countless lives,
you know, in the Gars of Strip. But on top
of that, I mean just the most advanced technologies. You know,
some of these tanks have three hundred and sixty degree
digital ai a I inspired and optimized battlefield management systems.
(08:16):
I mean, you know, really smart, sophisticated stuff. And at
the same time, I think what the Israelis have realized
and in this they've sort of taken a page out
of Alexander the Great Book, and you know, They've used
quite a few battle strategies that were made popular by
Alexander the Great and had studied at West Point, at
San Jas and other military colleges. You know. One of
(08:37):
them was this idea divide Gaza into and go straight
for the command center. That was a a strategy Alexander
deployed against the Persians Derias. But the other one is
that they understand that Hamas needs to be on all
the time and they can take their time to a taxi.
You see, had this three week pause at the beginning
where Hamas needed to be on twenty four hours a day.
(08:59):
Israel was sort of resting its troops, you know, taking
the time to get its forces and battle strategy in place,
but at the same time depleting Hamas Amasa's reserves. So
now you know, because Israel has let a lot of
supplies in due to this deal, the hostage deal, so
you may see that they again sort of go back
to the siege, take their time to let Hamas reserves deplete,
(09:23):
and then you know, strike again with full force. You know,
shortly after.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That, David, when we look at the end goal here
in Gaza, what do what do you think that will
be meaning we know that success is the destruction of Hamas.
What comes after Hamas in Gaza? Who's in charge? Who
runs this place? Or what does it look like? What happens?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Look I had a piece about this in Thermals Street
Journal a couple of weeks ago. I was there in
two thousand and five when Israel with forcefully Withdrewid citizens
in the Gaza strip. I saw it first hand. I
heard what people were saying at the time. Israeli's wanted
to give it a shot. I mean, Israeli people are
desperate for peace, They're desperate to give piece of chance.
(10:10):
And you know, there was certainly a case to be
made that you know, this would create a new opportunity
for Palestinians. You know, they left a lot of economic infrastructure,
their agricultural infrastructure, greenhouses, you know, and it was all destroyed.
Her must took over within a couple of years. And
now this is the fifth war against Israel that they
that they've launched, you know, not to mention, you know,
tens of thousands of missiles. So the Israelis have learned
(10:34):
their lesson. You know, they cannot risk the possibility that
this goes back to what it had become. You know,
people have spoken about putting the pasting and authority in charge.
Well we tried that before and Hamas knocked them out
soon after. I don't think the areas are going to
rely on international forces. You know, international forces are pretty
(10:55):
much as good. You know, it's useful. You know, they're
useful until basically a gun is pointed at them and
then they run. We've seen that happen many times in
the past. So the only option, the way that I
see it now that Israelis consider is as rarely control
of the Strip, and you know they're not new to
it as well, control the Strip since ninety sixty seven.
Sometimes it was you know, they allowed certain degrees of
(11:17):
autonomy or self governance, you know, but non military and
obviously controlling the borders. But you know, I don't see
that the Israelis will allow anything else at this point.
You know, that's what you're going to see for the
foreseeable future, until some viable alternative becomes available. There certainly
isn't one right now.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
David, I want to ask you about this Washington Post
report from over the weekend that Biden a few weeks
back was behind closed doors apologizing to Muslim leaders in
the US. So we're going to dive into the politics
of this. In just a second, we're speaking to Dovidafoon,
publisher of the New York Sun. Come back in a moment.
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All right, David, why would Biden feel the need to
apologize to Muslim American leaders behind closed doors at the
(12:59):
White House for overly doubting Hamas based casualty figures.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Look, Biden's a politician, and a pretty slimmy one at that.
And this is what Simi. Politicians do. You know, they
speak out of the two sides of their mouths. They
say to their audiences what they think their audiences are
going to want to hear. And you know, I wouldn't
be surprised that this is exactly what is that play
(13:28):
over here. You know, the question of civilian casualties in
Garza is a big question because effectively it's the most
potent tool that Hamas has against Israel right now. You know,
claim that the damage is so enormous, so disapprotionate, that
the humanitarian disaster is so extreme beyond anything that any
(13:51):
Western country has ever done before to protect its citizens
and try and externally induce a degree of international pressure
that forces Israel into halting its campaign against Hamas and Gaza.
This is their strategy, it's their only game, it's their
only advantage. What's shocking is just how many supposedly you know,
(14:16):
let's say, clear thinking or or or or at least
you know, entities that are supposed to be responsible, are
just swallowing this Humas propaganda hook line and sinker. And
you're talking about yes, international world leaders from a lot
of different countries, international organizations, supposed to human rights groups,
(14:37):
age scroups, journalists, celebrities. I mean, god, you've got to
see what Hollywood has come up with. But in the
end of the day, this is just Hamas propaganda. There
is no and I mean none is zero, none at
all verification for these numbers. There's no source for these
numbers outside of Hamas. And you know, the New York
(14:58):
Times has put together this, you know, extensive article over
the weekend, which you know, uses all kinds of smoke
and mirrors to try and lead the reason reader to
believe that they have any more information. But of the day,
they just don't. And there are some very obvious questions
that need to be asked about these numbers, and nobody
(15:20):
nobody that I've seen in the Western press that the
big newspapers of record are asking these very obvious questions.
And you know, the question. I can go through some
of them if we have time for that, but the
question of why is a big one that a lot
of people are wondering. And you know, it explains why
distrust in news publications in America today is at historic loads,
(15:43):
and it's just being reinforced at a moment like this
when there are obvious truths, obvious questions that are being
so brazenly and blatantly ignored, you know, in the service
of a certain narrative, in a certain perspective, which those
publications of record favor.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Well, you know, it's what you mentioned, the so called
publications of record, dovid and for the left and the
political elite in this country, those would generally be New
York Times, Washington Post, and a handful of others. And
what we've seen is an effort on their on their
side to be I guess they would call it even
handed when it comes to believing, say, Israeli government information
(16:23):
and believing Hamas provided information. What's interesting to me is,
I remember during the Trump administration, the Washington Post The
New York Times, both from the newsroom as well as
the editorial page, openly saying that what we have to
be effectively anti Trump, because to be for the truth
is to be anti Trump. Well, I mean it would
(16:45):
seem that Hamas would certainly fall in the category of
maybe the truth isn't on their side either, folks.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, that's that's exactly right, and it's the reason why
the trust of these publications, you know, really that really
is in the toilet. I mean, there are so many
dis solvious questions. I mean, I must puts out numbers.
It makes no distinction between civilians and terrorists that would
kill I mean, is the New York Times even going
to ask, you know, how many of these deaths were
(17:13):
militants versus citizens, I mean, as civilians. Beyond that, I mean,
it's just you know, I interviewed some folks who were
involved in processing the bodies that were brought in, you know,
after the terror attack that I must committed against Israels
in southern Israel. They were brought to a central base
in Ramla Shura base it's called it's run by the
(17:36):
IDs chief Rabbinet, and you know, they had a morgue
that contained that space about two hundred bodies, so you know,
twelve hundred victims. They had to bring in ten shipping
containers shipping containers just to hold the bodies for processing. Right,
and here you have claims that ten, eleven, twelve times
the amount dead of victims of bodies you know, are
(18:03):
in Gaza, and Israel is responsible for it. Has anybody
seen has anybody seen a morgue where the bodies are stored?
Has anybody seen the graves? I mean, we've seen some
pictures of maybe a couple of dozen or one hundred
bodies being buried in a mass grave, But I mean,
these numbers are so enormous, you know, it's impossible that
(18:24):
if they exist, there shouldn't be some visualization of them
that the world press and international bodies or human rights
groups or the New York Times can gain access to.
And if they're not asking these questions, you know, it's
clear that they don't have an interest in the truth.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That would seem to be where we are with some
of these entities that they perhaps they view their obligation
to take the side of the so called victimized. In
the case of Palestinians, they somehow the victimization of is
really Jews doesn't factor into this equation for them, But
they're willing to excuse so much and even lie about
(19:04):
things in order to take aside in this Dovid speaking
of excusing abhorrent and the inexcusable atrocities the college campus
stuff that we've seen in terms of support for the Palestinians,
I want to ask your opinion on this, and basically
we'll come to this in a moment. Are you surprised
or did you expect this kind of a reaction to
(19:27):
what we see going on over there on US campuses.
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college campus pro Palestinian thing where there they got kids
chanting from the river to the sea and all this stuff.
I've known there's been this affinity on campuses for the
Palestinian cause, the same way that you have idiots walking
around who are you know, big supporters of like climate
(20:48):
change and the LGBTQ plus agenda with Chay Gavara shirts on.
You know, they maybe just don't know, they're deeply ignorant,
and so they think that Jay Gavar, the Communists would
have somehow been their friend. But with the Palestinian issue,
I mean, after the mass terror attack against Israelis, for
college kids to be walking around so desperately supporting Hamas,
(21:13):
surprised when you see this expected and how did this happen?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, I'm not surprised. And you know, there are sort
of ideological underpinnings frankly that run you know, from from
Hamas in Gaza, you know, straight to the center of
our most elite college campuses. And you know, if you
have to sort of put a finger on it, you
know what it boils down to is, you know, whether
you sort of view the world through the lens of
(21:40):
victim victim hood victims and oppressors, of course, or you know,
through through the lens of of you know, responsibility, right,
the culture of victimhod and the culture of responsibility in
the end of the day, the American way, the Israeli whey,
certainly the Judeo Christian way is a culture of responsibility.
(22:01):
It means building a better future. The culture of victimhood,
which says, you know, the whole world is the divided
into victims and oppressors. It's obviously prelevant, im prevalent in
Palestinian society and also prevalent on American college campuses that
you know, you don't have responsibility for your own future.
(22:24):
You can't do anything about and you can't do anything
about it. It's just about finding somebody to blame and
and you know, tearing them down effectively. And it's interesting,
you know, to look at the dynamic. You know, we've
heard this from a lot of folks, even frankly from
I saw the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs
in the United States, this idea that terrorism is a
(22:45):
product of hardship, it's a product of persecution, it's a
product difficulty. I mean, you know this from from your background.
I mean, someone in Laden was a wealthy guy. You know,
he came from from an affluent everyone background. I mean,
and you know, if you compare sort of the response
that the Palestinians have had, you know, nationally, to the
(23:10):
hardship that they've been through to you know, the hardship
for example, that Jews who were sort of persecuted in
Arab countries and were forced into Israel. You know, it's
a very very different mentality. You know, I don't see
Holocaust survivors going and blowing themselves up, you know, massacring
or raping German women for example. You know, it's it's
(23:31):
a mindset and it runs, it's a cultural mindset and
it runs, you know, straight from Gaza, you know, to
the center of American college campuses. I don't want to
say that every individual Palestinian holds holds these views. I mean,
there are a lot of Palestinians who want a better future, who,
if you gave them a choice, would rather live in
(23:53):
Israel and become part of a free society. You're seeing
a ton of Palestinians now in the Gaza strip, now
that Hamasa's stranglehold on the strip is weakening. Talking about
you know, how terrible Hamas is. But you know, there
is certainly an overarching theme that is taught in the
Palestinian institutions that mirrors almost precisely the theme that is
(24:18):
taught you know, in sort of the woke you know,
anti racism. If you want to call it tradition on
American college campuses. So you know, in that sense there's
a very strong thread that ties them together and there
should be no surprises at all that you know. This
message is resonating, you know, from the middle of Gaza
(24:40):
to the middle of Harvard.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
You know, David Ifoo and everybody. David's the publisher of
New York Sun. Go to n y s u N
dot com New York Sun. Peace up right now. If
this pause in the Gaza conflict is allowed to turn
into a durable ceasefire, it would be a decisive defeat
for Israel. That's by Conrad Black. Great stuff up at
the New York Son, David, appreciate you being with me,
my friend.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Good to see you. Always a pleasure book.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
All right, that was great man, Thanks so much. I'll
let you know what it's out, probably be tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Fantastic. Thank you. Rich out that in Florida.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Florida's good, man, Florida's good. Do you ever make it
down here.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I think we can have an upbassl party. Actually, but
it's it's on. It would
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, everybody, Welcome to the Buck Brief. In this episode,
we're joined by our friend David Efoon. He is the
publisher of the New York Son, which I recommend to
you and tell you that you should subscribe to. David,
Thanks for being here. Let's dive into the situation right
now of the multi day ceasefire hostage exchanges. Tell me
(00:41):
what's going on with this Israel Hamas war as we
sit here and we're as up to date as we
can be.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well, you know, obviously following the horrendous, I mean unspeakable
attack of October seventh, that's been a very obvious and
clear shift in the Israeli mentality of the defense establishment,
certainly across the nation, where you know, after years of
thinking about dealing with some of its most dangerous enemy
(01:10):
in terms of containment, now it's all about preemption and
eliminating threats where they are. And obviously, first and foremost,
the nation has turned its attention to the Hamas threat
in the southwest of the country in Gaza, it took
a little bit of time to get the strategy together,
but they've gone in. Now they have Hamas against the
(01:32):
ropes in avery in a very tough spot, which is
exactly where they want them to be. And you know,
as a product of that, you know, Harmas has really
been begging for a ceasefire, if you will, and you
can see that by the terms in which they have
come to Israel, where they're now sort of taking the
(01:53):
opportunity to release prisoners at a slow drip, release hostages
sorry that they had seized from southern Israel, including a
lot of women and children, mothers and grandmothers and grandfathers,
in exchange for pauses in the fighting, which I think
at this age Hamas sees as being an existential matter.
(02:14):
So these Radis are concerned. You know, obviously, it's a
democratic country. They answer to the people, including the families
of the hostages, and even though this presents for them
a military setback, they're prepared to allow it in order
to be able to release as many of those innocent
civilians as possible. And I think we'll we'll see this
(02:38):
go for as long as Israel feels like it can
bring back civilians out of harm's way, and then we're
going to see all hell break loose again and the
final and hopefully complete demolition of Hamas as a governing
and military entity.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Is their unity in Israel behind net and Yahoo on
this mission to destroy Hamas as an entity in a
way that there similarly was broad unity in the US
after nine to eleven to destroy al Qaeda and finemin Laden.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Absolutely. I mean, look, there is a huge amount of
frustration with the government over how this was able to
happen in the first place, and the response and this
and that, and basically everybody who's in any kind of
position of leadership or punishment or leadership or responsibility is
going to be punished by the electorate. I mean, it's
(03:32):
hard to see a way out of this. In the
end of the day, the buck stops with Niahu and
the military establishment, and you know they will pay the
price for it eventually. In terms of the objectives of
this war, you know, it's it's it's hard to sort
of understate just how unified the country is. I mean,
(03:53):
you do see a lot of international calls for a
permanent ceasefire or you know, hopefully the ceasefire can be extended.
It's just not going to happen. You know, the folks
who are saying things like that, talking about you know,
I saw a BBC political correspondent talking about how Europreme
pressure is going to be so much on Israel they
(04:14):
won't be able to stay. The Israelis. Do not give
a fake what the Belgians or the Spanish or the
Irish chef to say. You know, this is about their security.
It's ex ebstential. And you know, the Hummus has really
sort of poked a sleeping bearness, sleeping giant. Any government
(04:35):
leader or military leader who wants to slow down, you know,
this goal of complete definition demolition of Hummus is going
to get handed out of office.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
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your livelihood. It's amazing patriotdefender dot com. How has it
gone so far in terms of the Israeli expectation of
(06:12):
the resistance they would get from Hamas and the speed
with which they would be able to roll up different
elements of that terrorist entity. Is this more or less
what was expected? Has it been tougher fighting? How would
you assess that?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Look, there were obviously major military failures that led to
the attack itself, but ever since that point, the Israelis
have fought like lions and brilliantly and have been incredibly effective.
You know, the last time they went into Gaza was
twenty fourteen, and you know, casualties were a lot higher
(06:46):
than they than they would have liked. I mean, obviously
they don't want any casualties, but higher than they would
have liked and higher than they expected. See, the Israelis
have had about nine years to think and plan and
strategize and build technologies that are specifically designed for exactly
this theater of combat. And you can see now they've
(07:08):
learned a great deal and they put in who act
into into action. And no, I don't know how much
time we have. Obviously there's a lot you can go into.
But one example is and not a lot of people
know this. The Iron Dome missile defense system is quite
famous for intercepting every single that's rarely armored vehicle, including
the America of Ar four BARAQ tanks that came into
(07:31):
operation earlier this year and the NAMA APCs that are
the two main vehicles that Israel is operating in the
Gars of Strip. Every single one of them is fit
is fitted with a mini iron Dome system, you know,
the joint jointly developed with the Americans. Americans call it
the Trophy system, and it's on many ABRAMS tanks as well.
The Israelis called it the Windbreaker, but it intercepts RPGs
(07:54):
and other projectiles and that's saved you know, countless lives,
you know, in the Gars of Strip. But on top
of that, I mean just the most advanced technologies. You know,
some of these tanks have three hundred and sixty degree
digital ai a I inspired and optimized battlefield management systems.
(08:16):
I mean, you know, really smart, sophisticated stuff. And at
the same time, I think what the Israelis have realized
and in this they've sort of taken a page out
of Alexander the Great Book, and you know, They've used
quite a few battle strategies that were made popular by
Alexander the Great and had studied at West Point, at
San Jas and other military colleges. You know. One of
(08:37):
them was this idea divide Gaza into and go straight
for the command center. That was a a strategy Alexander
deployed against the Persians Derias. But the other one is
that they understand that Hamas needs to be on all
the time and they can take their time to a taxi.
You see, had this three week pause at the beginning
where Hamas needed to be on twenty four hours a day.
(08:59):
Israel was sort of resting its troops, you know, taking
the time to get its forces and battle strategy in place,
but at the same time depleting Hamas Amasa's reserves. So
now you know, because Israel has let a lot of
supplies in due to this deal, the hostage deal, so
you may see that they again sort of go back
to the siege, take their time to let Hamas reserves deplete,
(09:23):
and then you know, strike again with full force. You know,
shortly after.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That, David, when we look at the end goal here
in Gaza, what do what do you think that will
be meaning we know that success is the destruction of Hamas.
What comes after Hamas in Gaza? Who's in charge? Who
runs this place? Or what does it look like? What happens?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Look I had a piece about this in Thermals Street
Journal a couple of weeks ago. I was there in
two thousand and five when Israel with forcefully Withdrewid citizens
in the Gaza strip. I saw it first hand. I
heard what people were saying at the time. Israeli's wanted
to give it a shot. I mean, Israeli people are
desperate for peace, They're desperate to give piece of chance.
(10:10):
And you know, there was certainly a case to be
made that you know, this would create a new opportunity
for Palestinians. You know, they left a lot of economic infrastructure,
their agricultural infrastructure, greenhouses, you know, and it was all destroyed.
Her must took over within a couple of years. And
now this is the fifth war against Israel that they
that they've launched, you know, not to mention, you know,
tens of thousands of missiles. So the Israelis have learned
(10:34):
their lesson. You know, they cannot risk the possibility that
this goes back to what it had become. You know,
people have spoken about putting the pasting and authority in charge.
Well we tried that before and Hamas knocked them out
soon after. I don't think the areas are going to
rely on international forces. You know, international forces are pretty
(10:55):
much as good. You know, it's useful. You know, they're
useful until basically a gun is pointed at them and
then they run. We've seen that happen many times in
the past. So the only option, the way that I
see it now that Israelis consider is as rarely control
of the Strip, and you know they're not new to
it as well, control the Strip since ninety sixty seven.
Sometimes it was you know, they allowed certain degrees of
(11:17):
autonomy or self governance, you know, but non military and
obviously controlling the borders. But you know, I don't see
that the Israelis will allow anything else at this point.
You know, that's what you're going to see for the
foreseeable future, until some viable alternative becomes available. There certainly
isn't one right now.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
David, I want to ask you about this Washington Post
report from over the weekend that Biden a few weeks
back was behind closed doors apologizing to Muslim leaders in
the US. So we're going to dive into the politics
of this. In just a second, we're speaking to Dovidafoon,
publisher of the New York Sun. Come back in a moment.
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All right, David, why would Biden feel the need to
apologize to Muslim American leaders behind closed doors at the
(12:59):
White House for overly doubting Hamas based casualty figures.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Look, Biden's a politician, and a pretty slimmy one at that.
And this is what Simi. Politicians do. You know, they
speak out of the two sides of their mouths. They
say to their audiences what they think their audiences are
going to want to hear. And you know, I wouldn't
be surprised that this is exactly what is that play
(13:28):
over here. You know, the question of civilian casualties in
Garza is a big question because effectively it's the most
potent tool that Hamas has against Israel right now. You know,
claim that the damage is so enormous, so disapprotionate, that
the humanitarian disaster is so extreme beyond anything that any
(13:51):
Western country has ever done before to protect its citizens
and try and externally induce a degree of international pressure
that forces Israel into halting its campaign against Hamas and Gaza.
This is their strategy, it's their only game, it's their
only advantage. What's shocking is just how many supposedly you know,
(14:16):
let's say, clear thinking or or or or at least
you know, entities that are supposed to be responsible, are
just swallowing this Humas propaganda hook line and sinker. And
you're talking about yes, international world leaders from a lot
of different countries, international organizations, supposed to human rights groups,
(14:37):
age scroups, journalists, celebrities. I mean, god, you've got to
see what Hollywood has come up with. But in the
end of the day, this is just Hamas propaganda. There
is no and I mean none is zero, none at
all verification for these numbers. There's no source for these
numbers outside of Hamas. And you know, the New York
(14:58):
Times has put together this, you know, extensive article over
the weekend, which you know, uses all kinds of smoke
and mirrors to try and lead the reason reader to
believe that they have any more information. But of the day,
they just don't. And there are some very obvious questions
that need to be asked about these numbers, and nobody
(15:20):
nobody that I've seen in the Western press that the
big newspapers of record are asking these very obvious questions.
And you know, the question. I can go through some
of them if we have time for that, but the
question of why is a big one that a lot
of people are wondering. And you know, it explains why
distrust in news publications in America today is at historic loads,
(15:43):
and it's just being reinforced at a moment like this
when there are obvious truths, obvious questions that are being
so brazenly and blatantly ignored, you know, in the service
of a certain narrative, in a certain perspective, which those
publications of record favor.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Well, you know, it's what you mentioned, the so called
publications of record, dovid and for the left and the
political elite in this country, those would generally be New
York Times, Washington Post, and a handful of others. And
what we've seen is an effort on their on their
side to be I guess they would call it even
handed when it comes to believing, say, Israeli government information
(16:23):
and believing Hamas provided information. What's interesting to me is,
I remember during the Trump administration, the Washington Post The
New York Times, both from the newsroom as well as
the editorial page, openly saying that what we have to
be effectively anti Trump, because to be for the truth
is to be anti Trump. Well, I mean it would
(16:45):
seem that Hamas would certainly fall in the category of
maybe the truth isn't on their side either, folks.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, that's that's exactly right, and it's the reason why
the trust of these publications, you know, really that really
is in the toilet. I mean, there are so many
dis solvious questions. I mean, I must puts out numbers.
It makes no distinction between civilians and terrorists that would
kill I mean, is the New York Times even going
to ask, you know, how many of these deaths were
(17:13):
militants versus citizens, I mean, as civilians. Beyond that, I mean,
it's just you know, I interviewed some folks who were
involved in processing the bodies that were brought in, you know,
after the terror attack that I must committed against Israels
in southern Israel. They were brought to a central base
in Ramla Shura base it's called it's run by the
(17:36):
IDs chief Rabbinet, and you know, they had a morgue
that contained that space about two hundred bodies, so you know,
twelve hundred victims. They had to bring in ten shipping
containers shipping containers just to hold the bodies for processing. Right,
and here you have claims that ten, eleven, twelve times
the amount dead of victims of bodies you know, are
(18:03):
in Gaza, and Israel is responsible for it. Has anybody
seen has anybody seen a morgue where the bodies are stored?
Has anybody seen the graves? I mean, we've seen some
pictures of maybe a couple of dozen or one hundred
bodies being buried in a mass grave, But I mean,
these numbers are so enormous, you know, it's impossible that
(18:24):
if they exist, there shouldn't be some visualization of them
that the world press and international bodies or human rights
groups or the New York Times can gain access to.
And if they're not asking these questions, you know, it's
clear that they don't have an interest in the truth.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That would seem to be where we are with some
of these entities that they perhaps they view their obligation
to take the side of the so called victimized. In
the case of Palestinians, they somehow the victimization of is
really Jews doesn't factor into this equation for them, But
they're willing to excuse so much and even lie about
(19:04):
things in order to take aside in this Dovid speaking
of excusing abhorrent and the inexcusable atrocities the college campus
stuff that we've seen in terms of support for the Palestinians,
I want to ask your opinion on this, and basically
we'll come to this in a moment. Are you surprised
or did you expect this kind of a reaction to
(19:27):
what we see going on over there on US campuses.
We'll get to that in a moment. You can determine
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Well.
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Enter promo code b U c K. I have these
towles at home. They are amazing, all right, David. The
college campus pro Palestinian thing where there they got kids
chanting from the river to the sea and all this stuff.
I've known there's been this affinity on campuses for the
Palestinian cause, the same way that you have idiots walking
around who are you know, big supporters of like climate
(20:48):
change and the LGBTQ plus agenda with Chay Gavara shirts on.
You know, they maybe just don't know, they're deeply ignorant,
and so they think that Jay Gavar, the Communists would
have somehow been their friend. But with the Palestinian issue,
I mean, after the mass terror attack against Israelis, for
college kids to be walking around so desperately supporting Hamas,
(21:13):
surprised when you see this expected and how did this happen?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, I'm not surprised. And you know, there are sort
of ideological underpinnings frankly that run you know, from from
Hamas in Gaza, you know, straight to the center of
our most elite college campuses. And you know, if you
have to sort of put a finger on it, you
know what it boils down to is, you know, whether
you sort of view the world through the lens of
(21:40):
victim victim hood victims and oppressors, of course, or you know,
through through the lens of of you know, responsibility, right,
the culture of victimhod and the culture of responsibility in
the end of the day, the American way, the Israeli whey,
certainly the Judeo Christian way is a culture of responsibility.
(22:01):
It means building a better future. The culture of victimhood,
which says, you know, the whole world is the divided
into victims and oppressors. It's obviously prelevant, im prevalent in
Palestinian society and also prevalent on American college campuses that
you know, you don't have responsibility for your own future.
(22:24):
You can't do anything about and you can't do anything
about it. It's just about finding somebody to blame and
and you know, tearing them down effectively. And it's interesting,
you know, to look at the dynamic. You know, we've
heard this from a lot of folks, even frankly from
I saw the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs
in the United States, this idea that terrorism is a
(22:45):
product of hardship, it's a product of persecution, it's a
product difficulty. I mean, you know this from from your background.
I mean, someone in Laden was a wealthy guy. You know,
he came from from an affluent everyone background. I mean,
and you know, if you compare sort of the response
that the Palestinians have had, you know, nationally, to the
(23:10):
hardship that they've been through to you know, the hardship
for example, that Jews who were sort of persecuted in
Arab countries and were forced into Israel. You know, it's
a very very different mentality. You know, I don't see
Holocaust survivors going and blowing themselves up, you know, massacring
or raping German women for example. You know, it's it's
(23:31):
a mindset and it runs, it's a cultural mindset and
it runs, you know, straight from Gaza, you know, to
the center of American college campuses. I don't want to
say that every individual Palestinian holds holds these views. I mean,
there are a lot of Palestinians who want a better future, who,
if you gave them a choice, would rather live in
(23:53):
Israel and become part of a free society. You're seeing
a ton of Palestinians now in the Gaza strip, now
that Hamasa's stranglehold on the strip is weakening. Talking about
you know, how terrible Hamas is. But you know, there
is certainly an overarching theme that is taught in the
Palestinian institutions that mirrors almost precisely the theme that is
(24:18):
taught you know, in sort of the woke you know,
anti racism. If you want to call it tradition on
American college campuses. So you know, in that sense there's
a very strong thread that ties them together and there
should be no surprises at all that you know. This
message is resonating, you know, from the middle of Gaza
(24:40):
to the middle of Harvard.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
You know, David Ifoo and everybody. David's the publisher of
New York Sun. Go to n y s u N
dot com New York Sun. Peace up right now. If
this pause in the Gaza conflict is allowed to turn
into a durable ceasefire, it would be a decisive defeat
for Israel. That's by Conrad Black. Great stuff up at
the New York Son, David, appreciate you being with me,
my friend.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Good to see you. Always a pleasure book.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
All right, that was great man, Thanks so much. I'll
let you know what it's out, probably be tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Fantastic. Thank you. Rich out that in Florida.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Florida's good, man, Florida's good. Do you ever make it
down here.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I think we can have an upbassl party. Actually, but
it's it's on. It would
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