March 31, 2023 • 45 mins
We're all in the Trump bunker now. Rush predicted this! Andy McCarthy breaks down the indictment. Injured journalist Benjamin Hall with an incredible story of hope.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of The Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Welcome man, it is a Friday edition
of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, and you
need to buckle up because it's gonna be a wild
ride today. As many of you, all of you, I
(00:20):
probably should say no. Yesterday afternoon evening, Donald Trump officially
indicted by New York City District Attorney Alvin Bragg. We
have not yet seen exactly what the charges are, but
every report is that it's somehow related to the Stormy
Daniels hundred and thirty thousand, maybe also the hundred and
fifty thousand dollars that went to Karen McDougal, two different stories.
(00:43):
You heard us talking about some of the particulars of
those yesterday, and we will certainly be talking about them
a great deal today. Giving you a little bit of
a heads up. Andy McCarthy, who I think is probably
the best legal analyst in all of the country. The
only thing I have against him as he's a Jets
and a Mets fan, which is an awful combo. He
(01:04):
is going to be on with us a little bit
after one o'clock Eastern, so about an hour from now,
and I bet I'm just gonna put a pin in this.
I bet that will be the most intelligent discussion you
will hear about the legal aspects surrounding these charges and
what we know right now. Again, that is in one
hour we will talk with him. Also, this was scheduled
(01:26):
in advance. I think this will be a really interesting
conversation for all of you to be able to enjoy
as we go into the weekend, to put everything in
kind of perspective. At two thirty Eastern, that's eleven thirty
on the West Coast, Benjamin Hall, who was horribly injured
in Ukraine, Fox News reporter, he will join us. He
(01:46):
has got a book out and he will be just
talking about his recovery from those injuries that he suffered
in that attack in Ukraine. So that is the roadmap
of where we are going. But this is no great
surprise by a large The entire show is going to
be about the Trump indictment. It's impact all of the
legacy aspects of this as well. It's also Friday, eight
(02:10):
hundred two eight two two eight eight two. And what
I would encourage callers is we don't want your opinion
necessarily right now, intelligent questions, intelligent thoughts, further the conversation.
If you want to call in and discuss this incident,
this indictment with both Buck and myself, that's what we're
(02:30):
looking for, not just hey, you know, let's waive the
Trump flag. Hey, this is a big, big deal in
terms of the twenty four primary season. We will talk
about all of that, but I'm interested in your smart,
reasoned takes that can further our conversation into a more
intelligent fashion. Because Buck, to me, this is I'm putting
(02:53):
my history nerd cap on here. You and I are
both history nerds. This is an unpressed, sended act in
the two hundred and forty year history of the United
States of America. Never before has there ever been a
president or former president who has faced charges, certainly not
being brought by an elected Democrat district attorney in a
(03:17):
state that is rife with political opposition. So my biggest
takeaway here, regardless of what happens with Trump, is this
is a cross the Rubicon moment where it used to
be unheard of that a president, or a presidential candidate
or a former president would ever face charges, particularly those
rooted clearly in political animus. Now, I'm unfortunately of the
(03:40):
opinion that it is going to become standard. And you
want to talk about actual threats to democracy. This is
what democrats have been screaming since Trump came down the
escalator in the Trump Tower, that he is an unparalleled
threat to our democracy. Democrats, with the raid on Mara
Lago and now with the charges being brought against Trump,
(04:00):
have broken two hundred and forty years of political tradition
and they have engaged in behavior that, in my opinion,
is a direct attack upon the foundations of our democracy.
Whatever you might think about Donald Trump himself, the purpose
of this, I think Clay is And you know, I
was trying to just sort of relax yesterday on the
(04:20):
couch the wife text message start flooding in. You know.
You know you have that too in our business when
you're when it's you know, after sort of standard working
hours and you get fifteen text messages in a row
for different people. And I remember thing, I was like,
oh God, it's a Trump in Diamond, isn't it. But
year only when you get your phone blows up like that.
I think one of two things. Either something crazy has
(04:43):
happened in the news or my wife is mad at
me because of something one of the kids have done.
There's no for me that that's one of the only
two things that could be. So the precedent is the
point here, and I think that's really important for everyone
to understand. My first thought with this is we are
now all in the Trump bunker, because everybody on the
(05:03):
right understands. And I know a lot of people were before,
but I'm saying now everybody on the right is in
the Trump bunker. Ronda Santis put out a statement right away,
by the way, saying that he would not participate in
the extradition of Donald Trump from Florida because of the
obvious politicization here. I think that's noteworthy. Ron's a guy
who knows the law obviously very well, and he recognizes
(05:26):
on illegal and also on ethical grounds, on moral grounds,
standing with Trump in this moment for our country is
the right thing to do. The setting of the precedent here,
I would argue Clay is likely, and this this is
Andy McCarthy was the first person that I think said
this publicly, so all credit him, and I know he's
(05:46):
coming on the show later, but it's likely. The breaking
of the damn moment. It's gonna be a lot of
metaphors everybody, a lot of metaphors, maybe cliches, even when
something like this happens. But it is a breaking of
the damn. I think because there's the Georgia indictment about
I forgot the specific charge. There could be a bunch
of different charges, but it's essentially inducement to commit election
(06:10):
fraud something along those lines, almost like conspiracy to commit
election fraud. The specific Georgia's statutory language maybe a little
bit different. There's also the Moro Lago documents thing. By
the way, I don't see that because of the Biden issue, right,
they have to They're not trying to keep the veneer
of legality going for our side. We already know that
(06:33):
this is a political attack, but their own side, there
are Democrats who want to believe that this is legitimate
at some level. So that's the only thing I think
that holds them back. They want to be able to
tell their democrats, see, we're upholding the rule of law,
and in their simplistic fashion, they'll believe them. So I
think this is the beginning of other indictments, and it
could even include and this is the one that I
(06:55):
think is the one they really want is seditious insurrection
effectively or the conspiracy to commit insurrection or fraud against
the United States. That would be the federal charge that
Merrick Garland would have to go with. Eventually, maybe we
don't get there, maybe we don't go there. This also
allows them to see how the escalation plays out, right,
(07:17):
This allows them with a much more minor charge. Let's
see how far they get with this. Let's see what
the reaction from the right is. I do think, and
maybe I'm too much of an optimist Clay, although I
don't think people usually would accuse me of that. I
think that they will be surprised by how united around
Trump the right has become on this issue. We had
(07:37):
a bit of this with a Maralago raid where everybody
I was thinking back to that last night, a very
similar feel to what happened yesterday. But I think that
they're going to see a unified right. I think it's
also very likely pushed Donald Trump to an unassailable position
in the Republican primer. I wouldn't say it's over and
done with, but I would say it has certainly been
(07:58):
a boost for him in that direct and this is
about a lot more than a frivolous indictment based on
a payoff to an individual for a nuisance lawsuit or whatever.
This is about the ability of the apparatus of the
Democrats of the left to target individuals for political purposes
brazenly and openly and use the law as a weapon
(08:19):
to do it. Buck, here's another angle. And I think
everything you said is right. The bidendj and the Biden
White House, I keep waiting for this to happen. I
don't believe they've issued any statement yet. They're going to
be able to say this isn't us. Remember the Shaggy defense,
It wasn't me back in the day, the popular popular
(08:41):
song gets caught cheating, just says it wasn't me. The
Department of Justice and the Biden administration can say it's
not us. That's the New York City Prosecutor, Alvin Bragg.
He's not a federal agent. If the charges are brought
in the State of Georgia, they can say this is
not us, this is an investigation the state of Georgia.
(09:01):
It actually lets Merit Garland off the hook, and it
even allows Biden potentially to play statesman by saying these
are not federal charges that by and large are being
brought by my Department of Justice. I don't think it's
appropriate that I should be involved in any way in
going after a chief political opponent. But I'm not in
(09:23):
charge of the decisions that individual prosecutors make in their
particular jurisdictions. And that is to me, as I was
sitting back and thinking about this, that is the tiny
little thread that allows Biden to get all of the
benefits of charges being filed against Trump while being able
to hold his hands and palms to the sky and
(09:44):
say it wasn't me. I didn't do this. This is
the United States justice system, individual jurisdictions going after Trump.
We're not involved at all. And that's where I think
we probably end up. I think charges are going to
be brought in George as well, and then you'll have
a two fronted eagle war. And I still think because
of the Biden classified documents of fiasco that Merritt Garland
(10:06):
ultimately will will come out and say I'm not going
to be able to get involved in bringing charges against Trump.
I've decided against it. I'm gonna wag my finger on
the docks and think about you think about January sixth
as well. I think I think even on January sixth, yes,
because now they're getting the benefit of Trump being charged. Look,
the mug shot, the purp walk, the fingerprinting, all of
(10:27):
that is what they really want. And here's here's my
big picture thought. Aside from the historical awfulness of this buck,
they want Trump. They want Trump in the ring against
Biden because they believe, and it may be a misguided opinion,
that the only person Joe Biden can beat is Donald Trump.
So this helps them, I believe, get Trump in that
(10:51):
boxing ring with them for the rematch of twenty twenty.
Let's be very honest with each other here, everybody about
First of all, you know what the message that has
been sent by this is, which is you, meaning everyone listening,
better stay in line and obey and shut your mouth
and do what the left wants, or else you challenge
(11:11):
the system, they'll come after you. That's the message. Now,
they're not going to come after everybody, but they don't
have to. As the point, they will. They have the
ability to come after absolutely everyone. And I think it's
important to remember that the Russia collusion hoax, which we
all sit around now and say, wow, that was crazy,
that was so it was it was insane, it was wrong.
(11:33):
It's really evil too to put the country through that.
Democrats view it as success, and you really have to
let that sink in from them. With the Democrats view
Russia collusion as at least a partial success, it meant
that Trump spent how much of his time, how much
of his energy, and his staffers, and his White House
(11:54):
and his press allies and people in the media who
supported them, people like you and me. How much time
did we have to end playing defense against a fantasy. Ye,
now we're going to be playing defense against Yes, grotesque
abuse of the law, politicized indictments. But for them it's
all upside, just like how our initial assessment of brag
(12:16):
Um was there's nothing but upside for him to bring
the charges. Apparently they had two grand juries going by
the way, which is what threw us when they said
the one was being delayed for a month, right, they
were multiple was intentional leak though, because they're trying to
I mean, I think they played the media like a
fiddle there because they were able to make people think, oh,
like even the Trump people at Marlago were like, oh,
(12:37):
let's let's let's pause a little bit, like this is
not necessarily was to make look it was it was tactics.
You're one hundred percent right, and we can't you know,
I'm not in that grand jurm. You're not in that
Grand juram. So we can only go based off of
what the reporting is. But the message is very clear.
We all understand. This is a moment where we're calling
in the cavalry on the right. Everyone's coming together and saying,
(12:57):
hold on a second, there's something deeply ethically morally wrong.
This is doing violence to the Constitution. I know people say, oh,
it's just a state charge, or it's not that big
a deal. No, it is a huge deal. It's a
conspresidential candidate. It's a huge deal, and we all know that.
But we also have to understand what do they really want. Yes,
they want Donald Trump and handcuffs, Yes they want the
(13:19):
perp walk, but also they want to win. Yep. So
if we want justice, it's not just Trump beating this
meaning the charge. It's a Republican, it's Donald Trump, it's
somebody for our side in the White House in twenty
twenty four. We have to keep our eye on the prize,
no doubt. I want to talk more about the state
(13:39):
aspect of these charges and what it might mean as
a precedent going forward, because I think that's hugely significant.
We'll talk about that and more coming up. Obviously, we're
breaking down every possible angle associated with Donald Trump officially
being indicted. In the meantime, most colleges carry a claim
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and Buck four Hillsdale dot com. That's Clay and Buck
four Hillsdale dot com. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton voices
(15:04):
of sanity and insane World. If you wanted a prescient
vision of the future from our past, you couldn't do
any better than the one and only rushed Limball. This
(15:26):
was back on January eighth of twenty twenty one, on
the issue of a Trump indictment. We wanted to bring
in Rush's voice here play it. I know they desperately
want Trump gone, and I know that they desperately want
it codified that Trump cannot run again, because make no mistake,
they remain scared to death of you, and they remained
(15:48):
scared to death of Trump. Trump seventy five million, eighty
million votes, and I'm going to tell you You're not
going anywhere even if Trump does, You're not. They can't
separate you from the ideas, they can't separate you from MAGA,
they can't separate you from Make America Great Again, which
(16:12):
I think remains one of our big campaign strength going forward.
They believe that they can destroy this bond that exists
between you and Trump if they somehow make Trump look bad,
make Trump look like a reprobate, embarrass you about Trump.
They can't do it because you came before Trump, Clay.
(16:36):
I think what's so critical and Rush saw this was
that it's not enough even for Trump to not be
in office. For the Democrats, they have to destroy the movement.
And the movement is among Trump supporters. The movement is
among people who believe in him and what he stood
for for four years and wishes to stand for again.
And I think that, and I think Rush saw this
(16:58):
more than anything else, is pushing what's going on right
now with this indictment. Yeah, and when we come back,
and I think that was well said. When we come back,
I want to talk about the precedent more because all
over America there are elected Democrat prosecutors that we've been
focused on because they aren't keeping their cities safe. You've
(17:21):
seen crime waves surge up like never before in the
twenty first century. And all of these Democrat prosecutors now
are looking at Alvin Bragg and they're jealous of the
attention that he got, of the big fish that he
has reeled in. Why would they not do the same
thing to try to charge anyone they could with any
(17:44):
crime in an effort to elevate their own political profile.
I think this is going to be one of the
big lessons that everybody needs to take note of, because
it's not going to stop with Alvin Bragg and Trump.
We're just beginning a new era in American policy. I
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(18:06):
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the number two t dot org. Our friend Andy McCarthy
(19:16):
is with us with his latest thoughts on the crazy
world we live in now of the Democrats celebrating the
indictment of Donald Trump by Alvin Bragg in New York City,
and we have. Andy, of course, is a Fox News contributor.
He is a former prosecutor from the Southern Districtrict of
(19:38):
New York Or for twenty years. There. Andy, great to
have you back on, sir. Let's just start with your
We just want the Andy reaction to Wow, they actually
are doing it. They're doing it. You know, I really
they told me Buck, because I thought when they said
the grand jury was gone for a month, it looked
(19:58):
like he was folding and same same here by the way,
we just assumed it's that seems like a weird head fake. Well,
you know, I think what they wanted to do was
get all twenty three grand jurors there to vote on it,
because they probably it's not the kind of case you
would want to vote with less than close to the
full amount. They probably wanted to get them there with
(20:19):
as little fans there as possible, so they could get
in and do what they thought they needed to do.
And so it worked. It was good head fake. All right,
what now, you've you've been involved in high profile cases
in New York City for a long time, granted on
the federal side, this is the state side. What would
you anticipate happening now? For everybody out there that is
(20:39):
listening and trying to think, uh, you know, procedurally, where
we are headed, what the time frame will look like,
what next Well, I think, you know, obviously, we have
the circus in town on Tuesday, which is a pretty
pro form uh you know, normal event in a criminal case.
They're going to bring the former president and he's not
(21:02):
going to be arrested. He'll be brought in in the
custody of the Secret Service to the DA's office. NYPD
will be there. The DA's office, for those who don't know,
in Lower Manhattan, is connected to the courthouse during the
same complex. So he'll be processed, which means fingerprints and mugshots,
(21:25):
and then he'll be brought before a judge who will
take a plea. He'll plead not guilty, and then as
as The New York Post is reporting that Trump thinks
that the judge is already selected and that it's the
judge who had the case involving his financial diet the
Trump organization, Alan Weiselberg, a judge by the name of
(21:47):
merch On. We'll have to see if that's true or not.
But what will happen once to day is done is
if Trump's not going to have bail conditions. This is
a non file violent crime, so he'll be released on
his own cognizance, and then the case will be in
the hands of the judge who will be responsible for thereafter.
(22:10):
And there's going to be a slew of motion practice
because this is the unusual case where there's probably a
lot of reasons, very culpable reasons to move to dismiss
the case. So it's a congested court, which means even
normal cases don't get tried for a very very long time.
And here the complications attendant to it are immense. And Guys,
(22:34):
that's even assuming for the sake of argument, that no
other prosecute or files charges, which we I don't think
can safely assume them. So Andy, can I ask on
the let's assume that it doesn't if it has that
judge who I think we could say is an anti
Trump judge or guy who's not inclined. This is not
the judge of Trump would want there. The Trump people
(22:55):
have already said Trump's lawyer I saw last night. There's
a couple of lawyers. One of them said Trump will
absolutely not take a plea deal because I would assume
him in a non violent, low level um campaign finance issue. Right,
Usually this would be something that probably someone pays a
fine rioty, you know, and they'd offer that, oh, you
pay a fine, plead guilty. But if Trump says no,
(23:18):
there is there a real possitive Could this have any
jail time attached to it? I mean, could someone actually
go to I think, But in principle the answer to
that question would have to be yes, because what he's
trying to do is inflace the misseemeter into a felony.
Right now, as a as a matter of law, I
don't think he can do it, So I think he's
(23:40):
bragg is. It'll lose on that. But let's just say,
for argument's sake that he's indicted him for felonies, and
he could get convicted of felonies. Each of those felonies
is a four year town And that's a long winded
way of bringing me to my next point, which I
don't think he's gotten enough attention, but something we should
keep our eye on, and that is apparently this is
(24:03):
a thirty four count indictment, and it's a it's a
kind of a typical prosecutorial abuse, which in justice Department
in federal cases, has guidance against gens, telling federal prosecutors
not to do this, that if you don't have a
serious crime, what you try to do is camouflage with
(24:25):
quality or quantity what you don't have in quality. You
take something that shouldn't even be indicted at all, and
you turn it into thirty four felony counts, and you
hope to signal to the jury that, gee, the government
wouldn't have charged thirty four counts unless this was a
really serious So any this is like the count of
countless counts, right, So you know, look, any prosecutor can
(24:49):
do this kind of thing. Like you know, if if
we three guided were, you know, sitting around looking at
our stolen property, and we were passing it back and
forth to each other. In theory, each time we passed
it back and forth, I could charge a transfer of
stolearn property account right a felony account. But in reality
we're just sitting there with stolen property right in, one
(25:11):
count would be plenty, And good prosecutors, ethical prosecutors who
have serious passes don't bring a million pouns because you
don't need a million pouns. The Justice Department guidance says
that in any but the most serious tenses, you shouldn't
have more than fifteen counts in an indictment. So to
have to turn this thing, which the federal authority who
(25:33):
had a jurisdiction over it, the Justice Department, in the
Federal Election Commission, they didn't pursue Trump on this. To
turn it not only into a felony, but say felony,
but thirty four felonies by a district attorney who doesn't
have jurisdiction over it is mind bodling. Okay, that goes
(25:54):
into what you just kind of hinted at. We're talking
to Annie McCarthy, who is a formal former federal prosecutor
in New York City. Okay, so this case may eventually
go to a jury, there may be a resolution, I
would presume, and you correct me if I'm wrong, that
this would theoretically happen sometime in twenty twenty four, legitimately
(26:17):
potentially in the middle of a presidential election year, which
is crazy right by itself, but I believe that there
are and this is me putting my lawyer head on.
You're a far more skilled criminal lawyer than I am,
so I want your opinion on this. When I read
and analyze this, it seems to me there are clear
statute of limitations issues, Okay. And it also seems, and
(26:39):
you talked about this with us the last time you
were on that trying to peg in many ways a
state violation to federal election law violations is a very tenuous,
without precedent in many ways method of which President Trump
is being charged. I think that as we move up
(27:01):
in the appeals process and it becomes a question of
law for judges both in New York and maybe then
as it crosses over to higher level courts, theoretically this's
go all the way to the Supreme Court. Somebody is
going to toss this out like the Supreme Court did.
Buck mentioned it earlier, the Bob McDonald charges that were
convictions were obtained for in Virginia. Do you think that's
(27:25):
likely And if it is, this is a multi year
legal process where I mean Trump could theoretically be president
of the United States before this thing has ever resolved. Yeah. Quite,
I would say you're not only talking about multi years.
Your comparison to McDonald is a good one to make
this point. McDonald was a federal case, so you have
(27:50):
a straight line to the Supreme Court. Right, you get
your appeal to the Circuit Court of Appeals, and then
you automatically go up to the Supreme Court. In the
state system, Trump would have to go all the way
through the state process, the state court that he's in
the appellate division to appeal it, the New York State
Court of Appeals, and then when his whole New York
(28:10):
thing is run, which takes years, if there's some federal
issue that impacted the case, the Supreme Court could take it.
And I say that as somebody who agrees with you,
that there are multiple reasons where why. And I don't
want to put work in your out here, but I
think it's likely that this thing, if the judge is
doing a job right, that this thing will be thrown
(28:32):
out before it ever gets the trial. But what I
would caution people is once a case is in the court,
that is, once you've indicted the case and a judges assigns,
the prosecutor loses any control over the schedule. So a
lot of this will have to do with the proclivities
of the judge, and some of them to be a
(28:53):
little eccentric. Even if this is the only case brought
against Trump. Even if the Fulton County people do nothing
in the special Cantle fool does nothing. I don't see
this case get into trial, you said twenty twenty four.
I would say, yes, no earlier than that, unless it
gets thrown out before trial. Okay. Building on that, we simultaneously.
(29:15):
Have you just mentioned the Fulton County case, You've got
now the New York City case. Also you have the
investigation going on into the Mara Lago classified documents as
well as January sixth, I floated this idea. I'm curious
what your expectation. This is the political as much as
it is the legal. More so probably that I expect
(29:35):
eventually for the Biden administration to come out and adopt
what I'm calling the Shaggy defense, which is saying, for
those of you who remember the song back in the day,
it wasn't me right. That Biden can say, hey, this
is a state court, I'm not involved in this at all,
and that this could take Merrick Garland off of having
to bring any federal charges, because really what Democrats want
(30:00):
Trump to face charges in some way, and if he
gets him maybe in Atlanta, and he's got him in
New York City. The federal aspect of this, Biden could
even say, hey, I'm going to pardon Trump and look
like the good guy, but it wouldn't impact whether those
state courses could still be proceeding. Do you buy into
that idea, Yeah, I think it's entirely possible. What cuts
(30:21):
against it is that it looks right now like the
Special Cancel is stepping up his investigative activity, you know,
the pursuit of having pense, testifying, the grand jury, the bringing.
I guess what I'm saying, Andy, is Biden could look
like the good guy by saying there's clear violations here,
(30:42):
but I think it's bad for the country for my
Department of Justice to be charging Trump with crimes. We're
not going to do it. And then he still gets
the benefit of the state courts doing it while also
looking like a good guy. But not. But Andy, it
sounds like you think that because I think this, that
there may actually be federal charges coming. Yeah. I think that,
(31:02):
But you know two things. To Clay's point, I think
there's no hurry on the federal side. Right The estion
of limitations on this stuff is not going to run,
so it earliest twenty twenty five, so they don't have
to plant their feet. Biden can't, I don't think, come
out and say I don't want my Justice Department getting
(31:24):
involved in this, because he's been a stickler from the
beginning of saying that the White House has nothing to
do with how the Justice Department is run. And because
of the jeopardy that the Biden family is in, he
can't afford to be taking the public position that he's actually,
you know, willing and dealing and controlling what the Justice
Department does. So I don't see him doing that, but
(31:45):
I could see him doing a silent version of it.
Whereas like the Justice Department has a lot of investigative
activity like they're doing now, but they don't actually charge anything.
They get all the benefit of the circus going on
in the safe proceedings, and in the meantime, they could
afford to keep their powdered dry because they don't have
to charge Trump until twenty twenty five, the earliest. So Andy,
(32:07):
in your mind, just one more for your then we
got to run to a break. Is there a realistic
chance that they put Donald Trump in a cell at
some point? With all these different investigations? In your mind,
or are you worried that that's actually what they think
is going to happen. I don't unless he gets convicted
of something, Buck, I don't see that. If he gets convicted,
(32:27):
then it's going to depend on what he gets convicted.
If it's this nonsense in New York, you know, I'm
tempted to say, there's no way except you know, you
guys mentioned the accountant before Weifelberg is sitting in Rykers Island,
you know what would That's why. That's why to me
it has to be taken seriously because his accountant they
got him on the most kind of low level mickey
(32:48):
mouse nonsense. Well, but also he's got Supreme Court sorry,
he's got Secret Service protection. So I don't even know
how you could put him in you like, but what
would happen if Trump were elected president and simultaneously he
was found guilty of a state court charge. Could he
be President of the United States from a jail cell?
(33:08):
I mean, I'm just legally, I'm just trying to even
think through the permutations here, Andy, And I think what
the Supreme Court would say is if the Senate that
if the Congress does not impeach and remove him. Then
what the constitution sentence is, you have to be over
thirty five, a natural board United States citizens, and resident
(33:29):
in the country's for fourteen years. If you meet those qualifications,
the American people, if they want to, if they want
to elect someone who's doing time in Leavenworth, there's nothing
the constitutions that they can so, I mean literally, he
could run the presidency from Rikers Island. Well, that remains
to be seen. I mean, to me, that would be
a good reason why, you know, you have to start
(33:49):
thinking about impeachment if we got to that point. But
you know, this is so unfrin anyone tells you that
they know how this is going to work out with
all the things we're now going to go through that
we've never gone through. I mean, it's that's the key,
Like where you're just kind of throwing out random things
that have never happened before. This is it's wild because
no one knows where it's where it's gonna go. Andy,
we need to do like a like a two hour
(34:10):
sit down podcast with you about this, and we'll have
to talk to your people about it because we got
to run your break now. Everyone look for Andy National
Review and on Fox news Andie McCarthy always illuminating. Sir,
thanks for being with us. Thanks guys, have a great weekend,
you know, Clay, one quick thing and I just keep
for I just want to introduce in the conversation because
I've been meaning to say this. Um the reason they're
(34:33):
one of the reasons they're doing this charge too. Why
this is the first one, because it's they were trying
to humiliate Trump. It's about the nature of the charge too.
The Democrats really get excited about that. They really want
to talk about porn stars and payoffs, and they want
to make it as this is much more personal than
the Georgia election issue, right, This is much more personal.
(34:54):
So it just gives you a sense of the mindset
they're really doing it, try to humiliate the guy. It's grotesque,
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Insane World Glade Travis sad Buck Sexton We are joined
(36:20):
now by Benjamin Hall, who was in Ukraine. Fox News
reporter has an incredible story to share with so many
of you out there that I think you guys would
love this is now let me go ahead and give
you the backstory here. The book is out, It is fabulous,
and it is saved a war reporter's mission to make
(36:42):
at home you were, Benjamin is with us. Now, what's
the last thing you remember before that attack happened? And
what was your immediate recollection when you became aware of
what happened with that attack? And we're so glad that
you have recovered and that you're going to be there
with your family for years and years to come. Yes, well,
(37:03):
I mean thanks claim back for having me on. I
really appreciate it. And yes, I think back to that
day every single day really, and I think the last
thing I remember was driving home thinking that we had
done our job really well that day, which filmed some
of the abandoned villagers that have been shelled, no one
in sight, and I just remember thinking in my head,
how are we going to edit this piece, what's the
story going to be? How are we going to put
it together? And out of nowhere, out of the sky.
(37:25):
The bomb started flying rock right at the car, targeted
at us. So that was the last moment that I
remember up to then and cash out and get out
of the car just before the second bomb hit right
next to us and knocked me out. And then, of
course I remember the rest of the day as well.
Managed to get out of the car, was on fire,
leg gone, foot gone, you know, shratting across my face,
(37:48):
badly injured. But then I just remember the forty minutes
of sitting there trying to think, how do I get home,
how do I survive? How do I get home to
my family? So I remember it all very clearly, and
you know, I think back to it every day because
I think it gives me strength to remember that. Hey Benjamin,
it's Buck Kim. What can you tell us about you know,
the rescue operation to get you out? You know, we
(38:08):
do not have a US military presence in country, so
this is a very different situation than correspondence, for example,
who would have been in Iraq or Afghanistan in previous years.
How did you get out of the country. Well, that's right, then,
Jen Griffin, or Pentagon correspondent, she found out quite quickly
and she spoke to John Kirby, who she was with
at the Pentagon, and he said, look, we cannot go
(38:30):
into Ukraine. It is government policy. No one's going in
to get him. If you can get him to the border,
then we will be there and the US military will
pick him up and help treat him. And so it
was on her to find a team who could come
and get that, and she knew the team from Save
Our Allies. This is the same incredible group led by
Sarah Verado who got thousands of people out of Afghanistan
when that country fell in the US pulled out and
(38:53):
theyme had this team together in Poland for all former military,
former intelligence, and they came in without knowing where I was.
They just knew that the team had been hit, and
they knew that two of the team were dead, and
they just started driving. They drove the twenty hours in
and they tracked me down badly injured in a small
Ukrainian hospital, but they couldn't get me out of the city.
(39:14):
The capital city of Key was almost surrounded by the
Russians at that point, and they couldn't fly me out.
They couldn't drive me out because the shrapnel in my neck.
But we found out through intelligence, or they found out
through intelligence that the Polish Prime Minister was on a
covert vision to meet to meet the Zelenski And if
we could reach the Polish Prime Minister's train inside Kiev,
(39:37):
which is their equivalent to Air Force one, then we
could get out with the Polish Prime Minister. But that
involved breaking through the curfew, thirty six hour curfew, and
that was chet point to checkpoint through the middle of
the night, and at each one didn't pull out of
the car by the Ukrainian soldiers at gunpoint. They thought
that we were Russian team coming in opening up my wounds,
(39:57):
checking my wounds with no pain meds at that point.
And so we have this mad dash through the city
to try and get to the train, and finally, with
minutes to spare, we got to this train and the
evacuation finally was able to continue to be completed. But
what is amazing in the book is that it is
about these people, these people who risked their own lives
to come in and save me, who took a look
at one picture and said, there's an American there who
(40:19):
needs help. We're going to go in and get him.
And I tell the backstory is some of the guys
who came in, people who had lost friends alongside him
in Afghanistan and Iraq, who had lost fathers, and they said,
we're not going to let another father die and leave
his children at home. And so it's an incredible story
about how they risked their lives to come and get
me and find a way to get me home and
get me out. We're talking to Benjamin Hall. The book
(40:40):
is Saved or Reporter's Mission to make It Home. What
do you It was almost exactly a year ago that
this happened to you. How have you changed since then?
What is different in your life? How do you value
things in your life differently? Many people have had these
near death experiences have massive changes in their life. How
would you assess your having changed since then? Yeah, in
(41:02):
many ways, you know, I feel exactly the same person sometimes,
and I feel like a totally different and new person
in many others. And I just think that my outlook
on life, the things that matter most have changed. And
all the small things that you know you worry about
in life, the little details, none of those matter anymore.
I have this incredibly wide picture of what matters in
the world, and it is family, It is helping others,
(41:25):
It is you know, the prior to your country doing
the big important things. If we do those things together,
then everything else will sort itself out. And you know,
I appreciate some of these things in a real emotional sense.
Now I feel it. I feel it inside. And now
I feel a love for my family and the prior
towards of America, my country, and so I feel different
in that sense. And I also just think that we
(41:46):
don't pay enough attention to those things sometimes in life.
You know, we have to work hard and we had
to do it for one another. And if we do that,
we're going to be in a better place. And that's
how I plan on continuing my life. Now, Benjamin, what
can you tell us about your Your plan's not going forward?
I mean, would would you? You're you're continuing, I know,
to work with Fox. What are your goals now? What
(42:07):
do you want to be doing now? Well, the most
important thing is I want to keep moving forward, you know.
And I do the book too, and of course I
talk about what happened to him, and it's an incredible story.
But in my mind, I'm looking forward, I'm looking at
what we can do next, not what happened in the past,
and I can't wait to get back to work. I
want to start telling stories of some of these heroes
that I met, the heroes who helped me, talking about
some of the incredible things out there, the community of
(42:29):
people out there. You know, I've spent fifteen years covering
wars and somehow I feel like there's a slight. You
asked you what have changed abound myself? And this is
a change in my work as well. The focus that
I want to want to look at has changed as well,
So I think that's where I want to go next.
But the main thing is I want to keep working again.
You know, having these injuries, you know, losing limbs, it's
(42:50):
don't stop you from doing anything in life. You know,
you've got to pick yourself up and you've got to
work hard and keep working. And that's that's exactly what
I plan to keep doing. And as soon as possible,
I've got a couple of operations up which have to
hold me back. I'll be off my legs for a while,
but as soon as those finished, I'll be be back
on Abby, back telling these incredible stories. What was it
like to see your kids and how much did they
(43:11):
impact your drive to get out of Ukraine and keep
yourself alive? Everything? Everything. The minute that I was lying
there on the ground that I know very badly injured,
I was telling Pr Camerman, who hadn't died at that point,
and I was saying, I've got to go. I'm so injured,
We've got to go home. And all I could think
of is how do I get back to my children?
What am I going to do? I'm going to crawl
(43:32):
to find them. And even when I was in hospital,
every day I thought, I'm going to get better every day.
I'm going to walk further today, and then if I
did two steps yesterday and do three steps today, because
I'm going to go home to see my children. And
actually when I got home, I remember being quite nervous
before I saw them, because I was so afraid that
they would be somewhat scared of me, that their lives
would change, that it would be harder for them. So
I entered my house. That when I finally came home
(43:54):
and I turned the corner and all those fears disappear
is they just ran. They ran, and they hugged me,
and you realize that nothing else Matt it's father and
son and all the other things disappear. And at that
moment of just total joy, where I realized I'd got
everything i'd worked for, everything I'd struggled for, was right
there hugging me. You know, my three girls were there,
and you know that's what drives me. That what drives
(44:16):
me every day. The book is Saved, a war reporter's
mission to make it home. Please get your copy today.
Benjamin Hall, the author, Benjamin amazing story or an inspiration,
my friend. Thank you so much for joining us, and
godspeed going forward claim back. Thanks so much for having me.
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Clay and Buck while getting behind the scene access to
special content for members only,
Welcome to today's edition of The Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Welcome man, it is a Friday edition
of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, and you
need to buckle up because it's gonna be a wild
ride today. As many of you, all of you, I
(00:20):
probably should say no. Yesterday afternoon evening, Donald Trump officially
indicted by New York City District Attorney Alvin Bragg. We
have not yet seen exactly what the charges are, but
every report is that it's somehow related to the Stormy
Daniels hundred and thirty thousand, maybe also the hundred and
fifty thousand dollars that went to Karen McDougal, two different stories.
(00:43):
You heard us talking about some of the particulars of
those yesterday, and we will certainly be talking about them
a great deal today. Giving you a little bit of
a heads up. Andy McCarthy, who I think is probably
the best legal analyst in all of the country. The
only thing I have against him as he's a Jets
and a Mets fan, which is an awful combo. He
(01:04):
is going to be on with us a little bit
after one o'clock Eastern, so about an hour from now,
and I bet I'm just gonna put a pin in this.
I bet that will be the most intelligent discussion you
will hear about the legal aspects surrounding these charges and
what we know right now. Again, that is in one
hour we will talk with him. Also, this was scheduled
(01:26):
in advance. I think this will be a really interesting
conversation for all of you to be able to enjoy
as we go into the weekend, to put everything in
kind of perspective. At two thirty Eastern, that's eleven thirty
on the West Coast, Benjamin Hall, who was horribly injured
in Ukraine, Fox News reporter, he will join us. He
(01:46):
has got a book out and he will be just
talking about his recovery from those injuries that he suffered
in that attack in Ukraine. So that is the roadmap
of where we are going. But this is no great
surprise by a large The entire show is going to
be about the Trump indictment. It's impact all of the
legacy aspects of this as well. It's also Friday, eight
(02:10):
hundred two eight two two eight eight two. And what
I would encourage callers is we don't want your opinion
necessarily right now, intelligent questions, intelligent thoughts, further the conversation.
If you want to call in and discuss this incident,
this indictment with both Buck and myself, that's what we're
(02:30):
looking for, not just hey, you know, let's waive the
Trump flag. Hey, this is a big, big deal in
terms of the twenty four primary season. We will talk
about all of that, but I'm interested in your smart,
reasoned takes that can further our conversation into a more
intelligent fashion. Because Buck, to me, this is I'm putting
(02:53):
my history nerd cap on here. You and I are
both history nerds. This is an unpressed, sended act in
the two hundred and forty year history of the United
States of America. Never before has there ever been a
president or former president who has faced charges, certainly not
being brought by an elected Democrat district attorney in a
(03:17):
state that is rife with political opposition. So my biggest
takeaway here, regardless of what happens with Trump, is this
is a cross the Rubicon moment where it used to
be unheard of that a president, or a presidential candidate
or a former president would ever face charges, particularly those
rooted clearly in political animus. Now, I'm unfortunately of the
(03:40):
opinion that it is going to become standard. And you
want to talk about actual threats to democracy. This is
what democrats have been screaming since Trump came down the
escalator in the Trump Tower, that he is an unparalleled
threat to our democracy. Democrats, with the raid on Mara
Lago and now with the charges being brought against Trump,
(04:00):
have broken two hundred and forty years of political tradition
and they have engaged in behavior that, in my opinion,
is a direct attack upon the foundations of our democracy.
Whatever you might think about Donald Trump himself, the purpose
of this, I think Clay is And you know, I
was trying to just sort of relax yesterday on the
(04:20):
couch the wife text message start flooding in. You know.
You know you have that too in our business when
you're when it's you know, after sort of standard working
hours and you get fifteen text messages in a row
for different people. And I remember thing, I was like,
oh God, it's a Trump in Diamond, isn't it. But
year only when you get your phone blows up like that.
I think one of two things. Either something crazy has
(04:43):
happened in the news or my wife is mad at
me because of something one of the kids have done.
There's no for me that that's one of the only
two things that could be. So the precedent is the
point here, and I think that's really important for everyone
to understand. My first thought with this is we are
now all in the Trump bunker, because everybody on the
(05:03):
right understands. And I know a lot of people were before,
but I'm saying now everybody on the right is in
the Trump bunker. Ronda Santis put out a statement right away,
by the way, saying that he would not participate in
the extradition of Donald Trump from Florida because of the
obvious politicization here. I think that's noteworthy. Ron's a guy
who knows the law obviously very well, and he recognizes
(05:26):
on illegal and also on ethical grounds, on moral grounds,
standing with Trump in this moment for our country is
the right thing to do. The setting of the precedent here,
I would argue Clay is likely, and this this is
Andy McCarthy was the first person that I think said
this publicly, so all credit him, and I know he's
(05:46):
coming on the show later, but it's likely. The breaking
of the damn moment. It's gonna be a lot of
metaphors everybody, a lot of metaphors, maybe cliches, even when
something like this happens. But it is a breaking of
the damn. I think because there's the Georgia indictment about
I forgot the specific charge. There could be a bunch
of different charges, but it's essentially inducement to commit election
(06:10):
fraud something along those lines, almost like conspiracy to commit
election fraud. The specific Georgia's statutory language maybe a little
bit different. There's also the Moro Lago documents thing. By
the way, I don't see that because of the Biden issue, right,
they have to They're not trying to keep the veneer
of legality going for our side. We already know that
(06:33):
this is a political attack, but their own side, there
are Democrats who want to believe that this is legitimate
at some level. So that's the only thing I think
that holds them back. They want to be able to
tell their democrats, see, we're upholding the rule of law,
and in their simplistic fashion, they'll believe them. So I
think this is the beginning of other indictments, and it
could even include and this is the one that I
(06:55):
think is the one they really want is seditious insurrection
effectively or the conspiracy to commit insurrection or fraud against
the United States. That would be the federal charge that
Merrick Garland would have to go with. Eventually, maybe we
don't get there, maybe we don't go there. This also
allows them to see how the escalation plays out, right,
(07:17):
This allows them with a much more minor charge. Let's
see how far they get with this. Let's see what
the reaction from the right is. I do think, and
maybe I'm too much of an optimist Clay, although I
don't think people usually would accuse me of that. I
think that they will be surprised by how united around
Trump the right has become on this issue. We had
(07:37):
a bit of this with a Maralago raid where everybody
I was thinking back to that last night, a very
similar feel to what happened yesterday. But I think that
they're going to see a unified right. I think it's
also very likely pushed Donald Trump to an unassailable position
in the Republican primer. I wouldn't say it's over and
done with, but I would say it has certainly been
(07:58):
a boost for him in that direct and this is
about a lot more than a frivolous indictment based on
a payoff to an individual for a nuisance lawsuit or whatever.
This is about the ability of the apparatus of the
Democrats of the left to target individuals for political purposes
brazenly and openly and use the law as a weapon
(08:19):
to do it. Buck, here's another angle. And I think
everything you said is right. The bidendj and the Biden
White House, I keep waiting for this to happen. I
don't believe they've issued any statement yet. They're going to
be able to say this isn't us. Remember the Shaggy defense,
It wasn't me back in the day, the popular popular
(08:41):
song gets caught cheating, just says it wasn't me. The
Department of Justice and the Biden administration can say it's
not us. That's the New York City Prosecutor, Alvin Bragg.
He's not a federal agent. If the charges are brought
in the State of Georgia, they can say this is
not us, this is an investigation the state of Georgia.
(09:01):
It actually lets Merit Garland off the hook, and it
even allows Biden potentially to play statesman by saying these
are not federal charges that by and large are being
brought by my Department of Justice. I don't think it's
appropriate that I should be involved in any way in
going after a chief political opponent. But I'm not in
(09:23):
charge of the decisions that individual prosecutors make in their
particular jurisdictions. And that is to me, as I was
sitting back and thinking about this, that is the tiny
little thread that allows Biden to get all of the
benefits of charges being filed against Trump while being able
to hold his hands and palms to the sky and
(09:44):
say it wasn't me. I didn't do this. This is
the United States justice system, individual jurisdictions going after Trump.
We're not involved at all. And that's where I think
we probably end up. I think charges are going to
be brought in George as well, and then you'll have
a two fronted eagle war. And I still think because
of the Biden classified documents of fiasco that Merritt Garland
(10:06):
ultimately will will come out and say I'm not going
to be able to get involved in bringing charges against Trump.
I've decided against it. I'm gonna wag my finger on
the docks and think about you think about January sixth
as well. I think I think even on January sixth, yes,
because now they're getting the benefit of Trump being charged. Look,
the mug shot, the purp walk, the fingerprinting, all of
(10:27):
that is what they really want. And here's here's my
big picture thought. Aside from the historical awfulness of this buck,
they want Trump. They want Trump in the ring against
Biden because they believe, and it may be a misguided opinion,
that the only person Joe Biden can beat is Donald Trump.
So this helps them, I believe, get Trump in that
(10:51):
boxing ring with them for the rematch of twenty twenty.
Let's be very honest with each other here, everybody about
First of all, you know what the message that has
been sent by this is, which is you, meaning everyone listening,
better stay in line and obey and shut your mouth
and do what the left wants, or else you challenge
(11:11):
the system, they'll come after you. That's the message. Now,
they're not going to come after everybody, but they don't
have to. As the point, they will. They have the
ability to come after absolutely everyone. And I think it's
important to remember that the Russia collusion hoax, which we
all sit around now and say, wow, that was crazy,
that was so it was it was insane, it was wrong.
(11:33):
It's really evil too to put the country through that.
Democrats view it as success, and you really have to
let that sink in from them. With the Democrats view
Russia collusion as at least a partial success, it meant
that Trump spent how much of his time, how much
of his energy, and his staffers, and his White House
(11:54):
and his press allies and people in the media who
supported them, people like you and me. How much time
did we have to end playing defense against a fantasy. Ye,
now we're going to be playing defense against Yes, grotesque
abuse of the law, politicized indictments. But for them it's
all upside, just like how our initial assessment of brag
(12:16):
Um was there's nothing but upside for him to bring
the charges. Apparently they had two grand juries going by
the way, which is what threw us when they said
the one was being delayed for a month, right, they
were multiple was intentional leak though, because they're trying to
I mean, I think they played the media like a
fiddle there because they were able to make people think, oh,
like even the Trump people at Marlago were like, oh,
(12:37):
let's let's let's pause a little bit, like this is
not necessarily was to make look it was it was tactics.
You're one hundred percent right, and we can't you know,
I'm not in that grand jurm. You're not in that
Grand juram. So we can only go based off of
what the reporting is. But the message is very clear.
We all understand. This is a moment where we're calling
in the cavalry on the right. Everyone's coming together and saying,
(12:57):
hold on a second, there's something deeply ethically morally wrong.
This is doing violence to the Constitution. I know people say, oh,
it's just a state charge, or it's not that big
a deal. No, it is a huge deal. It's a
conspresidential candidate. It's a huge deal, and we all know that.
But we also have to understand what do they really want. Yes,
they want Donald Trump and handcuffs, Yes they want the
(13:19):
perp walk, but also they want to win. Yep. So
if we want justice, it's not just Trump beating this
meaning the charge. It's a Republican, it's Donald Trump, it's
somebody for our side in the White House in twenty
twenty four. We have to keep our eye on the prize,
no doubt. I want to talk more about the state
(13:39):
aspect of these charges and what it might mean as
a precedent going forward, because I think that's hugely significant.
We'll talk about that and more coming up. Obviously, we're
breaking down every possible angle associated with Donald Trump officially
being indicted. In the meantime, most colleges carry a claim
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and Buck four Hillsdale dot com. That's Clay and Buck
four Hillsdale dot com. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton voices
(15:04):
of sanity and insane World. If you wanted a prescient
vision of the future from our past, you couldn't do
any better than the one and only rushed Limball. This
(15:26):
was back on January eighth of twenty twenty one, on
the issue of a Trump indictment. We wanted to bring
in Rush's voice here play it. I know they desperately
want Trump gone, and I know that they desperately want
it codified that Trump cannot run again, because make no mistake,
they remain scared to death of you, and they remained
(15:48):
scared to death of Trump. Trump seventy five million, eighty
million votes, and I'm going to tell you You're not
going anywhere even if Trump does, You're not. They can't
separate you from the ideas, they can't separate you from MAGA,
they can't separate you from Make America Great Again, which
(16:12):
I think remains one of our big campaign strength going forward.
They believe that they can destroy this bond that exists
between you and Trump if they somehow make Trump look bad,
make Trump look like a reprobate, embarrass you about Trump.
They can't do it because you came before Trump, Clay.
(16:36):
I think what's so critical and Rush saw this was
that it's not enough even for Trump to not be
in office. For the Democrats, they have to destroy the movement.
And the movement is among Trump supporters. The movement is
among people who believe in him and what he stood
for for four years and wishes to stand for again.
And I think that, and I think Rush saw this
(16:58):
more than anything else, is pushing what's going on right
now with this indictment. Yeah, and when we come back,
and I think that was well said. When we come back,
I want to talk about the precedent more because all
over America there are elected Democrat prosecutors that we've been
focused on because they aren't keeping their cities safe. You've
(17:21):
seen crime waves surge up like never before in the
twenty first century. And all of these Democrat prosecutors now
are looking at Alvin Bragg and they're jealous of the
attention that he got, of the big fish that he
has reeled in. Why would they not do the same
thing to try to charge anyone they could with any
(17:44):
crime in an effort to elevate their own political profile.
I think this is going to be one of the
big lessons that everybody needs to take note of, because
it's not going to stop with Alvin Bragg and Trump.
We're just beginning a new era in American policy. I
want to make an argument play as part of that discussion,
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the number two t dot org. Our friend Andy McCarthy
(19:16):
is with us with his latest thoughts on the crazy
world we live in now of the Democrats celebrating the
indictment of Donald Trump by Alvin Bragg in New York City,
and we have. Andy, of course, is a Fox News contributor.
He is a former prosecutor from the Southern Districtrict of
(19:38):
New York Or for twenty years. There. Andy, great to
have you back on, sir. Let's just start with your
We just want the Andy reaction to Wow, they actually
are doing it. They're doing it. You know, I really
they told me Buck, because I thought when they said
the grand jury was gone for a month, it looked
(19:58):
like he was folding and same same here by the way,
we just assumed it's that seems like a weird head fake. Well,
you know, I think what they wanted to do was
get all twenty three grand jurors there to vote on it,
because they probably it's not the kind of case you
would want to vote with less than close to the
full amount. They probably wanted to get them there with
(20:19):
as little fans there as possible, so they could get
in and do what they thought they needed to do.
And so it worked. It was good head fake. All right,
what now, you've you've been involved in high profile cases
in New York City for a long time, granted on
the federal side, this is the state side. What would
you anticipate happening now? For everybody out there that is
(20:39):
listening and trying to think, uh, you know, procedurally, where
we are headed, what the time frame will look like,
what next Well, I think, you know, obviously, we have
the circus in town on Tuesday, which is a pretty
pro form uh you know, normal event in a criminal case.
They're going to bring the former president and he's not
(21:02):
going to be arrested. He'll be brought in in the
custody of the Secret Service to the DA's office. NYPD
will be there. The DA's office, for those who don't know,
in Lower Manhattan, is connected to the courthouse during the
same complex. So he'll be processed, which means fingerprints and mugshots,
(21:25):
and then he'll be brought before a judge who will
take a plea. He'll plead not guilty, and then as
as The New York Post is reporting that Trump thinks
that the judge is already selected and that it's the
judge who had the case involving his financial diet the
Trump organization, Alan Weiselberg, a judge by the name of
(21:47):
merch On. We'll have to see if that's true or not.
But what will happen once to day is done is
if Trump's not going to have bail conditions. This is
a non file violent crime, so he'll be released on
his own cognizance, and then the case will be in
the hands of the judge who will be responsible for thereafter.
(22:10):
And there's going to be a slew of motion practice
because this is the unusual case where there's probably a
lot of reasons, very culpable reasons to move to dismiss
the case. So it's a congested court, which means even
normal cases don't get tried for a very very long time.
And here the complications attendant to it are immense. And Guys,
(22:34):
that's even assuming for the sake of argument, that no
other prosecute or files charges, which we I don't think
can safely assume them. So Andy, can I ask on
the let's assume that it doesn't if it has that
judge who I think we could say is an anti
Trump judge or guy who's not inclined. This is not
the judge of Trump would want there. The Trump people
(22:55):
have already said Trump's lawyer I saw last night. There's
a couple of lawyers. One of them said Trump will
absolutely not take a plea deal because I would assume
him in a non violent, low level um campaign finance issue. Right,
Usually this would be something that probably someone pays a
fine rioty, you know, and they'd offer that, oh, you
pay a fine, plead guilty. But if Trump says no,
(23:18):
there is there a real possitive Could this have any
jail time attached to it? I mean, could someone actually
go to I think, But in principle the answer to
that question would have to be yes, because what he's
trying to do is inflace the misseemeter into a felony.
Right now, as a as a matter of law, I
don't think he can do it, So I think he's
(23:40):
bragg is. It'll lose on that. But let's just say,
for argument's sake that he's indicted him for felonies, and
he could get convicted of felonies. Each of those felonies
is a four year town And that's a long winded
way of bringing me to my next point, which I
don't think he's gotten enough attention, but something we should
keep our eye on, and that is apparently this is
(24:03):
a thirty four count indictment, and it's a it's a
kind of a typical prosecutorial abuse, which in justice Department
in federal cases, has guidance against gens, telling federal prosecutors
not to do this, that if you don't have a
serious crime, what you try to do is camouflage with
(24:25):
quality or quantity what you don't have in quality. You
take something that shouldn't even be indicted at all, and
you turn it into thirty four felony counts, and you
hope to signal to the jury that, gee, the government
wouldn't have charged thirty four counts unless this was a
really serious So any this is like the count of
countless counts, right, So you know, look, any prosecutor can
(24:49):
do this kind of thing. Like you know, if if
we three guided were, you know, sitting around looking at
our stolen property, and we were passing it back and
forth to each other. In theory, each time we passed
it back and forth, I could charge a transfer of
stolearn property account right a felony account. But in reality
we're just sitting there with stolen property right in, one
(25:11):
count would be plenty, And good prosecutors, ethical prosecutors who
have serious passes don't bring a million pouns because you
don't need a million pouns. The Justice Department guidance says
that in any but the most serious tenses, you shouldn't
have more than fifteen counts in an indictment. So to
have to turn this thing, which the federal authority who
(25:33):
had a jurisdiction over it, the Justice Department, in the
Federal Election Commission, they didn't pursue Trump on this. To
turn it not only into a felony, but say felony,
but thirty four felonies by a district attorney who doesn't
have jurisdiction over it is mind bodling. Okay, that goes
(25:54):
into what you just kind of hinted at. We're talking
to Annie McCarthy, who is a formal former federal prosecutor
in New York City. Okay, so this case may eventually
go to a jury, there may be a resolution, I
would presume, and you correct me if I'm wrong, that
this would theoretically happen sometime in twenty twenty four, legitimately
(26:17):
potentially in the middle of a presidential election year, which
is crazy right by itself, but I believe that there
are and this is me putting my lawyer head on.
You're a far more skilled criminal lawyer than I am,
so I want your opinion on this. When I read
and analyze this, it seems to me there are clear
statute of limitations issues, Okay. And it also seems, and
(26:39):
you talked about this with us the last time you
were on that trying to peg in many ways a
state violation to federal election law violations is a very tenuous,
without precedent in many ways method of which President Trump
is being charged. I think that as we move up
(27:01):
in the appeals process and it becomes a question of
law for judges both in New York and maybe then
as it crosses over to higher level courts, theoretically this's
go all the way to the Supreme Court. Somebody is
going to toss this out like the Supreme Court did.
Buck mentioned it earlier, the Bob McDonald charges that were
convictions were obtained for in Virginia. Do you think that's
(27:25):
likely And if it is, this is a multi year
legal process where I mean Trump could theoretically be president
of the United States before this thing has ever resolved. Yeah. Quite,
I would say you're not only talking about multi years.
Your comparison to McDonald is a good one to make
this point. McDonald was a federal case, so you have
(27:50):
a straight line to the Supreme Court. Right, you get
your appeal to the Circuit Court of Appeals, and then
you automatically go up to the Supreme Court. In the
state system, Trump would have to go all the way
through the state process, the state court that he's in
the appellate division to appeal it, the New York State
Court of Appeals, and then when his whole New York
(28:10):
thing is run, which takes years, if there's some federal
issue that impacted the case, the Supreme Court could take it.
And I say that as somebody who agrees with you,
that there are multiple reasons where why. And I don't
want to put work in your out here, but I
think it's likely that this thing, if the judge is
doing a job right, that this thing will be thrown
(28:32):
out before it ever gets the trial. But what I
would caution people is once a case is in the court,
that is, once you've indicted the case and a judges assigns,
the prosecutor loses any control over the schedule. So a
lot of this will have to do with the proclivities
of the judge, and some of them to be a
(28:53):
little eccentric. Even if this is the only case brought
against Trump. Even if the Fulton County people do nothing
in the special Cantle fool does nothing. I don't see
this case get into trial, you said twenty twenty four.
I would say, yes, no earlier than that, unless it
gets thrown out before trial. Okay. Building on that, we simultaneously.
(29:15):
Have you just mentioned the Fulton County case, You've got
now the New York City case. Also you have the
investigation going on into the Mara Lago classified documents as
well as January sixth, I floated this idea. I'm curious
what your expectation. This is the political as much as
it is the legal. More so probably that I expect
(29:35):
eventually for the Biden administration to come out and adopt
what I'm calling the Shaggy defense, which is saying, for
those of you who remember the song back in the day,
it wasn't me right. That Biden can say, hey, this
is a state court, I'm not involved in this at all,
and that this could take Merrick Garland off of having
to bring any federal charges, because really what Democrats want
(30:00):
Trump to face charges in some way, and if he
gets him maybe in Atlanta, and he's got him in
New York City. The federal aspect of this, Biden could
even say, hey, I'm going to pardon Trump and look
like the good guy, but it wouldn't impact whether those
state courses could still be proceeding. Do you buy into
that idea, Yeah, I think it's entirely possible. What cuts
(30:21):
against it is that it looks right now like the
Special Cancel is stepping up his investigative activity, you know,
the pursuit of having pense, testifying, the grand jury, the bringing.
I guess what I'm saying, Andy, is Biden could look
like the good guy by saying there's clear violations here,
(30:42):
but I think it's bad for the country for my
Department of Justice to be charging Trump with crimes. We're
not going to do it. And then he still gets
the benefit of the state courts doing it while also
looking like a good guy. But not. But Andy, it
sounds like you think that because I think this, that
there may actually be federal charges coming. Yeah. I think that,
(31:02):
But you know two things. To Clay's point, I think
there's no hurry on the federal side. Right The estion
of limitations on this stuff is not going to run,
so it earliest twenty twenty five, so they don't have
to plant their feet. Biden can't, I don't think, come
out and say I don't want my Justice Department getting
(31:24):
involved in this, because he's been a stickler from the
beginning of saying that the White House has nothing to
do with how the Justice Department is run. And because
of the jeopardy that the Biden family is in, he
can't afford to be taking the public position that he's actually,
you know, willing and dealing and controlling what the Justice
Department does. So I don't see him doing that, but
(31:45):
I could see him doing a silent version of it.
Whereas like the Justice Department has a lot of investigative
activity like they're doing now, but they don't actually charge anything.
They get all the benefit of the circus going on
in the safe proceedings, and in the meantime, they could
afford to keep their powdered dry because they don't have
to charge Trump until twenty twenty five, the earliest. So Andy,
(32:07):
in your mind, just one more for your then we
got to run to a break. Is there a realistic
chance that they put Donald Trump in a cell at
some point? With all these different investigations? In your mind,
or are you worried that that's actually what they think
is going to happen. I don't unless he gets convicted
of something, Buck, I don't see that. If he gets convicted,
(32:27):
then it's going to depend on what he gets convicted.
If it's this nonsense in New York, you know, I'm
tempted to say, there's no way except you know, you
guys mentioned the accountant before Weifelberg is sitting in Rykers Island,
you know what would That's why. That's why to me
it has to be taken seriously because his accountant they
got him on the most kind of low level mickey
(32:48):
mouse nonsense. Well, but also he's got Supreme Court sorry,
he's got Secret Service protection. So I don't even know
how you could put him in you like, but what
would happen if Trump were elected president and simultaneously he
was found guilty of a state court charge. Could he
be President of the United States from a jail cell?
(33:08):
I mean, I'm just legally, I'm just trying to even
think through the permutations here, Andy, And I think what
the Supreme Court would say is if the Senate that
if the Congress does not impeach and remove him. Then
what the constitution sentence is, you have to be over
thirty five, a natural board United States citizens, and resident
(33:29):
in the country's for fourteen years. If you meet those qualifications,
the American people, if they want to, if they want
to elect someone who's doing time in Leavenworth, there's nothing
the constitutions that they can so, I mean literally, he
could run the presidency from Rikers Island. Well, that remains
to be seen. I mean, to me, that would be
a good reason why, you know, you have to start
(33:49):
thinking about impeachment if we got to that point. But
you know, this is so unfrin anyone tells you that
they know how this is going to work out with
all the things we're now going to go through that
we've never gone through. I mean, it's that's the key,
Like where you're just kind of throwing out random things
that have never happened before. This is it's wild because
no one knows where it's where it's gonna go. Andy,
we need to do like a like a two hour
(34:10):
sit down podcast with you about this, and we'll have
to talk to your people about it because we got
to run your break now. Everyone look for Andy National
Review and on Fox news Andie McCarthy always illuminating. Sir,
thanks for being with us. Thanks guys, have a great weekend,
you know, Clay, one quick thing and I just keep
for I just want to introduce in the conversation because
I've been meaning to say this. Um the reason they're
(34:33):
one of the reasons they're doing this charge too. Why
this is the first one, because it's they were trying
to humiliate Trump. It's about the nature of the charge too.
The Democrats really get excited about that. They really want
to talk about porn stars and payoffs, and they want
to make it as this is much more personal than
the Georgia election issue, right, This is much more personal.
(34:54):
So it just gives you a sense of the mindset
they're really doing it, try to humiliate the guy. It's grotesque,
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Insane World Glade Travis sad Buck Sexton We are joined
(36:20):
now by Benjamin Hall, who was in Ukraine. Fox News
reporter has an incredible story to share with so many
of you out there that I think you guys would
love this is now let me go ahead and give
you the backstory here. The book is out, It is fabulous,
and it is saved a war reporter's mission to make
(36:42):
at home you were, Benjamin is with us. Now, what's
the last thing you remember before that attack happened? And
what was your immediate recollection when you became aware of
what happened with that attack? And we're so glad that
you have recovered and that you're going to be there
with your family for years and years to come. Yes, well,
(37:03):
I mean thanks claim back for having me on. I
really appreciate it. And yes, I think back to that
day every single day really, and I think the last
thing I remember was driving home thinking that we had
done our job really well that day, which filmed some
of the abandoned villagers that have been shelled, no one
in sight, and I just remember thinking in my head,
how are we going to edit this piece, what's the
story going to be? How are we going to put
it together? And out of nowhere, out of the sky.
(37:25):
The bomb started flying rock right at the car, targeted
at us. So that was the last moment that I
remember up to then and cash out and get out
of the car just before the second bomb hit right
next to us and knocked me out. And then, of
course I remember the rest of the day as well.
Managed to get out of the car, was on fire,
leg gone, foot gone, you know, shratting across my face,
(37:48):
badly injured. But then I just remember the forty minutes
of sitting there trying to think, how do I get home,
how do I survive? How do I get home to
my family? So I remember it all very clearly, and
you know, I think back to it every day because
I think it gives me strength to remember that. Hey Benjamin,
it's Buck Kim. What can you tell us about you know,
the rescue operation to get you out? You know, we
(38:08):
do not have a US military presence in country, so
this is a very different situation than correspondence, for example,
who would have been in Iraq or Afghanistan in previous years.
How did you get out of the country. Well, that's right, then,
Jen Griffin, or Pentagon correspondent, she found out quite quickly
and she spoke to John Kirby, who she was with
at the Pentagon, and he said, look, we cannot go
(38:30):
into Ukraine. It is government policy. No one's going in
to get him. If you can get him to the border,
then we will be there and the US military will
pick him up and help treat him. And so it
was on her to find a team who could come
and get that, and she knew the team from Save
Our Allies. This is the same incredible group led by
Sarah Verado who got thousands of people out of Afghanistan
when that country fell in the US pulled out and
(38:53):
theyme had this team together in Poland for all former military,
former intelligence, and they came in without knowing where I was.
They just knew that the team had been hit, and
they knew that two of the team were dead, and
they just started driving. They drove the twenty hours in
and they tracked me down badly injured in a small
Ukrainian hospital, but they couldn't get me out of the city.
(39:14):
The capital city of Key was almost surrounded by the
Russians at that point, and they couldn't fly me out.
They couldn't drive me out because the shrapnel in my neck.
But we found out through intelligence, or they found out
through intelligence that the Polish Prime Minister was on a
covert vision to meet to meet the Zelenski And if
we could reach the Polish Prime Minister's train inside Kiev,
(39:37):
which is their equivalent to Air Force one, then we
could get out with the Polish Prime Minister. But that
involved breaking through the curfew, thirty six hour curfew, and
that was chet point to checkpoint through the middle of
the night, and at each one didn't pull out of
the car by the Ukrainian soldiers at gunpoint. They thought
that we were Russian team coming in opening up my wounds,
(39:57):
checking my wounds with no pain meds at that point.
And so we have this mad dash through the city
to try and get to the train, and finally, with
minutes to spare, we got to this train and the
evacuation finally was able to continue to be completed. But
what is amazing in the book is that it is
about these people, these people who risked their own lives
to come in and save me, who took a look
at one picture and said, there's an American there who
(40:19):
needs help. We're going to go in and get him.
And I tell the backstory is some of the guys
who came in, people who had lost friends alongside him
in Afghanistan and Iraq, who had lost fathers, and they said,
we're not going to let another father die and leave
his children at home. And so it's an incredible story
about how they risked their lives to come and get
me and find a way to get me home and
get me out. We're talking to Benjamin Hall. The book
(40:40):
is Saved or Reporter's Mission to make It Home. What
do you It was almost exactly a year ago that
this happened to you. How have you changed since then?
What is different in your life? How do you value
things in your life differently? Many people have had these
near death experiences have massive changes in their life. How
would you assess your having changed since then? Yeah, in
(41:02):
many ways, you know, I feel exactly the same person sometimes,
and I feel like a totally different and new person
in many others. And I just think that my outlook
on life, the things that matter most have changed. And
all the small things that you know you worry about
in life, the little details, none of those matter anymore.
I have this incredibly wide picture of what matters in
the world, and it is family, It is helping others,
(41:25):
It is you know, the prior to your country doing
the big important things. If we do those things together,
then everything else will sort itself out. And you know,
I appreciate some of these things in a real emotional sense.
Now I feel it. I feel it inside. And now
I feel a love for my family and the prior
towards of America, my country, and so I feel different
in that sense. And I also just think that we
(41:46):
don't pay enough attention to those things sometimes in life.
You know, we have to work hard and we had
to do it for one another. And if we do that,
we're going to be in a better place. And that's
how I plan on continuing my life. Now, Benjamin, what
can you tell us about your Your plan's not going forward?
I mean, would would you? You're you're continuing, I know,
to work with Fox. What are your goals now? What
(42:07):
do you want to be doing now? Well, the most
important thing is I want to keep moving forward, you know.
And I do the book too, and of course I
talk about what happened to him, and it's an incredible story.
But in my mind, I'm looking forward, I'm looking at
what we can do next, not what happened in the past,
and I can't wait to get back to work. I
want to start telling stories of some of these heroes
that I met, the heroes who helped me, talking about
some of the incredible things out there, the community of
(42:29):
people out there. You know, I've spent fifteen years covering
wars and somehow I feel like there's a slight. You
asked you what have changed abound myself? And this is
a change in my work as well. The focus that
I want to want to look at has changed as well,
So I think that's where I want to go next.
But the main thing is I want to keep working again.
You know, having these injuries, you know, losing limbs, it's
(42:50):
don't stop you from doing anything in life. You know,
you've got to pick yourself up and you've got to
work hard and keep working. And that's that's exactly what
I plan to keep doing. And as soon as possible,
I've got a couple of operations up which have to
hold me back. I'll be off my legs for a while,
but as soon as those finished, I'll be be back
on Abby, back telling these incredible stories. What was it
like to see your kids and how much did they
(43:11):
impact your drive to get out of Ukraine and keep
yourself alive? Everything? Everything. The minute that I was lying
there on the ground that I know very badly injured,
I was telling Pr Camerman, who hadn't died at that point,
and I was saying, I've got to go. I'm so injured,
We've got to go home. And all I could think
of is how do I get back to my children?
What am I going to do? I'm going to crawl
(43:32):
to find them. And even when I was in hospital,
every day I thought, I'm going to get better every day.
I'm going to walk further today, and then if I
did two steps yesterday and do three steps today, because
I'm going to go home to see my children. And
actually when I got home, I remember being quite nervous
before I saw them, because I was so afraid that
they would be somewhat scared of me, that their lives
would change, that it would be harder for them. So
I entered my house. That when I finally came home
(43:54):
and I turned the corner and all those fears disappear
is they just ran. They ran, and they hugged me,
and you realize that nothing else Matt it's father and
son and all the other things disappear. And at that
moment of just total joy, where I realized I'd got
everything i'd worked for, everything I'd struggled for, was right
there hugging me. You know, my three girls were there,
and you know that's what drives me. That what drives
(44:16):
me every day. The book is Saved, a war reporter's
mission to make it home. Please get your copy today.
Benjamin Hall, the author, Benjamin amazing story or an inspiration,
my friend. Thank you so much for joining us, and
godspeed going forward claim back. Thanks so much for having me.
Let us speak in Jim my friends. One of the
greatest things you can do for your family is preserve
(44:38):
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That company is Legacy Box. They send you a special
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