May 31, 2023 • 52 mins
Clay unleashes the fury. Trump goes after Kayleigh. Dawsen's Creek for the win! Ian Miller on the "illusion of control."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of The Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Welcome everybody. Wednesday edition of The Clay
Travis and Buck Sexton Show kicks off right now. Appreciates
you rollin' with us. We have a very stacked show today,
no surprise, it's going to be getting very busy day
in and day out as we enter this presidential election.
(00:23):
Cycled Also some interesting polling out that we can get
to in a moment. Eighteen percent. This is from Gallup.
Eighteen percent of Americans are satisfied with the state of
the nation. Now, you might say, well, are people always
a little curmudgeonly and salty about the state of the nation. Well,
it's usually about thirty five percent of people are satisfied,
(00:46):
So that's a substantial drop. Hmmm. You mean Joe Biden
and the lunatic communists around him are doing things that
make people less prosperous, safe, happy, and sane. Yes, we
tell you about this. We can come back to it
though in a second. Obviously, the House about to vote
on the debt limit bill. Has that happened just quite yet.
(01:08):
I think it's any It's gonna be happening shortly. Here
so we'll check the latest on that. Ron DeSantis kicked
off his campaign with a stop in Iowa. The Trump
DeSantis throwdown is getting, shall we say, more heated, more interesting.
(01:29):
Donald Trump. Also, those of you who are very online,
as in spend time on Twitter probably saw and some
of you might have even seen it on Facebook or
other places. Trump had some comments about his former Press secretary,
Kaylee mcinenny, who's a friend of mine, a friend of Clay's.
We will discuss what the former president's truth social post
(01:52):
was all about. That'll be coming up. There's some interesting
a lot of interesting stuff, even I think interesting stuff
going on in the sports world right now with the
Dodgers and now a Toronto Blue Jays player making the
requisite I'm sorry I offended the Wokeness hostage video. Clay
will lay some of that out for some of that
(02:13):
out for us. We've got a political development that I
want to dive into here in a second. But first, Clay,
I don't know how many of you remember the movie
road Trip, but there's a whole scene with what was
that comedian's name where he says was it Tom Green?
Is that right? Tom Green? And he says he's going
to unleash the fury. Clay just gotta. Clay just put
(02:35):
out a tweet and I was like, Clay, are you
unleashing the fury with a tweet about something happening at ESPN?
What happened? Clay? What's going on? And we can we
want to return to this in a little a little later.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, next hour. I'm going to dive into this in
a big way. But tomorrow is Pride Month, and you
all know that. I mean, it is the game day
of the year, and that's not meant as an insult.
June first is the gayest day of the year, where
everybody is bedecked in Pride flags and uh, and it
(03:10):
is impossible to mis gat a mistake the entire month.
Many people have pointed out that we get one day
to celebrate those who have died serving our country, we
get a full month to celebrate gay people. That obviously
always happens with Memorial Day coming in close consult with June.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
First, so ESPN. So there's evan.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I had to do research on this, Buck, and I
don't know if you are aware of this. Traditionally, the
Pride flag is just a rainbow, right, yes, because the
rainbow in theory would represent all colors. They have now
modified the rainbow because the rainbow was not inclusive enough
(03:52):
and they now have like some sort of like arrow.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That is a transflag trans flag. Well they consider to
be the trends like oh oh, I study leftism constantly.
I know they've changed this one, But isn't it fascinating
because this isn't the whole point of the rainbow that
it is all the colors, literally every whole point. The
whole point is that it's supposed to be everything.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, there literally could not be anyone not incorporated in
the rainbow flag, which was the entire purpose of the rainbow,
which now has been taken over by gay people.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I don't this happened.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
In conversation recently, one of my kids said, uh, you know,
every time I see an actual rainbow, I think now
about the gay pride flag because the gay community has
so taken over the rainbow.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You haven't, though, unleashed the furious so to speak, on
Twitter by breaking some news and then seeing all the
reaction to it. What's going on?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So this year ESPN is not just raising the gay flag.
I am told this is the first year that they
will be raising the t transgender gay flag. Now, some
of you out there may say, Okay, what's the significance here.
ESPN right now is foremost in advocating for men who
(05:12):
identify as women to be able to participate in women's athletics,
and in fact, ESPN ran and I believe we played
it on this show an advertisement Buck calling Leah Thomas
one of the women's sports heroes of the year. This
is a dude who was around the four hundredth best
college men swimmer, who became the best women swimmer, and
(05:35):
I believe the five hundred meter if I remember correctly
set the NCAA championship this past March. So they have
had a few brave people who have spoken out. Sam Ponder,
who some of you may know, Sage Steele. Two women
have come out and said this is ridiculous. I'm not
going to allow this to happen anymore without speaking out
(05:56):
on it. So this feels buck like a direct shot
back at those women. Sam Ponder was called a bigot
by USA Today for advocating for women's sports to only
be a part of women. So they are now having
a public flag raising of the transgender flag over the Bristol,
Connecticut campus of ESPN, as many of their female employees
(06:20):
who are speaking out are being called bigots and transphobes,
and so this feels like a direct corporate shot at
those employees who are speaking out on behalf of women's athletics.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It strikes me, Clay that it is entirely now, because
of a Supreme Court decision some years ago, legal to
burn the American flag as a form of speech. But
I have seen numerous stories recently of people not even
necessarily damaging a flag. But let's say, wasn't there someone
(06:53):
who I think left tire skid marks on a Pride
mural or something, yes, in the street, and that's a
hate crime. But burning, So if you burn a Pride flag,
if you own the flag, that is criminal. But if
you burn an American flag that has protected speech, do
I have that right? Because that's the way it seems.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I think it has not gone to the Supreme Court,
And so there are states that are prosecuting to you
what I'm saying right now, there are places where you
could so you can be.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Prosecuted for burning it. I just want every to be
clear on this, because there are cases people are prosecuted
for burning a Pride flag. You will not be prosecuted
for burning an American flag. In fact, the left will
tell you that's the highest form of patriotism.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, and I think in our staff can correct me
if I'm wrong on this. But I believe, and this
sounds like a made up hypothetical story that would be
in a law school exam. I believe a homeless man
they are now called unhoused people.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yes, I know that changed the term again. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, homeless man used a gay Pride flag to wipe
his bottom and was charged with a crime.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
In New York City for a crime. So that's right crime.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And so I suspect buck, this will go all the
way to the Supreme Court. And I am such a
free speech absolutist, and I understand some of you are
going to disagree with this. I actually think you should
be able to burn the American flag. I disagree with it.
I don't support it in any way. I want to
be clean, But.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Then should you be able to burn a Pride flag?
One hundred percent, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think this would go all the way to the
Supreme Court because it is a form of political commentary,
whether you agree with it or not, the logic and
consistency there would require that these statutes which seek to
punish people for doing so are unconstitutional.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And this is why hate crime laws are slippery slope.
There are crimes, right, There are crimes that people should
be punished for. The notion that there are things where
you could be punished for action that is otherwise entirely
legal because it offends certain people. No, I just agree
with that there are cases even in I remember actually
(09:03):
actually did my college thesis twenty years ago now on
campus speech codes and the various ways. Now I entered
this as private institutions, but they would find ways to punish,
and they would use criminal law as the basis for
it to punish people for doing things that would be
entirely protected under all circumstances, except the wrong feelings are
(09:24):
hurt and then all of a sudden there has to
be action. So I think that's an interesting side component
of this debate. We've kind of gotten deeper into this
now than we had anticipated, so we'll have to hold
some of the political discussion about the primary for a
few minutes. But Clay, can you tell me about this?
I think we have it right the Blue Here we
Go Blue Jays picture Anthony Bass apologize for a posting
(09:50):
a video endorsing boycotts of places like Target and bud
Light Play five.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I recognized yesterday I made a post that wass frightful
to the pride of the community, which includes friends of
mine and clost family members of mine, and I am
truly sorry for that. I just spoke with my teammates
and shire within my actions yesterday, I apologize with them
and as right now, I'm using the Blue Jays resources
(10:17):
to better educate myself.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh god, yeah, I can't. I can't, honestly, I can't.
I'm using the resources, but I'm I'm I'm excited to
go into the re education camp where my transgressions will
result in struggle sessions. Give me a break, Clay, Like,
I mean, this is this is why we actually need
you know, you need to take action. You need to
speak out because otherwise this happens to everybody. Well.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And and by the way, the groveling doesn't work because
a Toronto newspaper columnist has already demanded that this guy
be fired. Of course, right, because even when you throw
yourself prostrate on the apology Olympics here to try to
apologize for things that you actually believe that managed in
(11:03):
some way to upset someone. It isn't actually, it isn't
actually possible to do so.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
In Soulzanitsyn's Gulag Archipelago, there's a really haunting There are
some haunting passages really where he gets into your initial
arrest on your way to being sent to the Gulag
and the apparatus functionaries who would be there, you know,
interrogating you, torturing you and everything else. They knew you
were innocent, but they wanted you to give a confession
(11:33):
just because then that made the process of completely destroying
you even easier, and they would get more and more
frustrated the longer you held out on that confession. But
the point is confessing did nothing for you. Like they
would say, just confess and we'll make it stop. Just confess. No,
when you confess, then they send you to the Gulag
for ten or twenty years, and your you know, the
chance of survival is very very slim. That's the way
(11:55):
it is to bend the need to the woke mob.
It's not like your confession results in in some better
treatment for you. Your confession merely becomes admission of you being
a bad person that needs to be punished. Further so,
there's never any point in it. That's why this guy
I feel, Look, he's a picture. Is he a very
good picture? I have no idea. Is he a good player?
(12:16):
You know what? Buck?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
This is one of those things where I know a
lot about the Atlanta Braves.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
My chosen I.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Okay, buddy, put me on blast here for being inadequately
knowledgeable about the Toronto Blue Jays roster. Many of you
out there maybe Toronto Blue Jay roster experts.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I am not for the baseball fans of the audience.
Trust me. If this guy was a second string tight
end playing in the SEC twenty years ago, Clay would
Clay would tell you what his class schedule was. But okay,
Blue Jays, Yes, yeah, so anyway, but this guy apologizes
and what does he get for it? Nothing? But it's
it's fascinating. This is now when people are starting to say,
(12:58):
maybe we should step up. Remember this is for Butler.
He shared I think he shared or liked a video.
It wasn't even him talking about endorsement. I mean a
boycotting bud Light and boycotting Target, but because he liked
that action, which remember, in the Target situation, it's for
making bathing suits that hide men's penises that are supposed
(13:18):
to be women's bathing suits. Okay, that's really what.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
We're apologizing for, the thing like, what have you done
that's so transgressive?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So the I just it's the groveling. I hate when
they make people do this. I hate when they make
people do this, But it's it's not about him. I
would just know any one ever groveled for a left
wing opinion trying to think.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
There have problems. I mean, I'm sure we could find
some people who didn't say the right thing and the
left came after them.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, No, I mean for having too far left wing
of an opinion. Not like I misspoke and like said
something and people were mad at me. I mean, like
you said the most outlandish, far left wing thing imaginable.
I can't recall anyone ever being required to apologize.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
For that now I can't either. I think they always
leave space for that. But there's also maybe a lesson here,
which is that our side gets distracted fighting with each
other or trying to play kate the other side their
side has an amazing and consistent focus on destroying the country,
So there's something to be learned. Something to be learned.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Ever, apologize period, not if you sometimes misspeak. We might
say something stupid on this show. Trust us. I'm sure
you probably think we do it all the time. But
apology for misspeaking is different than apologizing for what you
actually believe in. You should never do the latter.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We have an announcement about somebody not like we are now,
Just to be clear, we're not announcing it, but there
is an announcement out there about somebody else who is
entering the presidential contest here on the Republican side. We
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Speaker 4 (16:22):
Truth seeking, reality telling The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. We've talked about Chris
Christi entering the race. Buck, as we start off our
number two here headline in the Messenger, which is a
new media startup, Former Vice President Mike Pence to launch
campaign for White House within two weeks. Pence, this is
(16:53):
the headline. Penns, who was pulling in single digits, believes
he hasn't laye with evangelicals in the GOP primary.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Buck.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
This is fascinating to me for a couple of reasons. One,
Donald Trump has not accused Mike Pence of disloyalty for
running for president against him.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Now, this is.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Interesting to me because there aren't very many precedents in
all of American politics when a vice president has competed
against a president for the nomination of a political party. Obviously,
we don't get a lot of opportunities for situations like
this to arise. To me, is evidence that Donald Trump
(17:37):
does not see Mike Pence as a threat. Hence he
hasn't branded his former vice president as disloyal for running
against him. Second part of this, with this news coming out,
Trump went after Kaylee mcinnaney really aggressively.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Last night.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Kaylee was sitting in leave for Laura Ingram on Fox News,
and many of you will remember and recall Kaylee was
among the most steadfast Trump defenders on the planet as
Trump's White House Press secretary, Buck is it fair to
say in terms of public employees that Kaylee would have
(18:22):
to be one of the ten most loyal Trump Trump
White House members in terms of having again public jobs
where you would go out and argue on behalf of
the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, absolutely. And she, unlike many of the people, particularly
in the in the calm side of the White House
and the strategic communication side, has remained loyal to both
Trump personally and to the policies that he pursued as
(18:57):
president without fail, including in the weeks after the twenty
twenty election and after January sixth too. She could have
very easily tried to do what some others have done,
which is turn their back on Trump and try to
leverage those moments for gain in the media. She didn't
(19:19):
do that. You and I both know, Kelly, we are
not unbiased in this conversation insofar as we both think
highly of Kelly, So yeah, we think highly of Trump
in some ways. But some days lately I'm getting a
little frustrated and I'm trying to just be fair about
(19:40):
all of this because I want this clay for everyone
to feel like, you know, throughout the primary, this is
their family dinner table. People are gonna disagree, people are
gonna call in, They're gonna email us, They're gonna like
some things that we're sharing on the air. They're gonna
disagree with some assessments and analysis. That's fine. It's a
primary that's gonna happen, But there are things that also
can happen. You go, hold on a second, what's what's
(20:02):
that all about? Come on, like, knock it off?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Have you?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
You want to tell everybody what the what the truth?
Social again?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, And I'm pulling it up right now to make
sure so for and I understand a lot of people
out there are not in sort of the social media ecosystem.
You're not looking at what Trump says or what somebody
else says back and forth on a day to day basis. Uh,
but here is what he said, uh Tuesday last night,
(20:31):
he said Kaylee milk toast mcainnaney. And by the way,
milk toast is not spelled milk and toast are, which
is how Trump spelled. It just gave out the wrong
poll numbers on Fox News. I am thirty four points
up on the sanctimonious, not twenty five. While twenty five
(20:55):
is great, it's not thirty four. She knew the number
was correct upwards by the group that did the poll.
The rhinos and globalist can have her. Fox News should
only use all caps real stars.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
So now the poll that Kaylee cited is a real poll.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So you and I have seen the poll that she cited,
and she wasn't taking an analytic position on them. She
wasn't saying this poll shows that Trump. She was just saying, look,
there's a poll out that says, Look, I mean, if
people can say whatever they want, they can justifight a
million ways. It's an unnecessary, cheap shot, and it was
a bad look, bad look. It's just not something that
(21:40):
there's so much to fight against. On the other side,
There's so much to point out of the failures of
the Biden regime. There's so much to talk about for
what Trump would want to do in the future, You're
gonna take a cheap shot of kale ol over nothing.
It'd be one thing if she started, and anyone who
tells me in the Twitter comments or whatever, she did
not she read a poll, and the poll was very
(22:01):
favorable for Trump.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Twenty five versus thirty four. It's a big lead either direction.
And the poll she cided was accurate. And here's the thing.
If you are going and it ties into me with
the Pence argument and also the Ronda Santis argument, If
you are going to argue that ron de Santis is
being disloyal to you by running for president of the
(22:26):
United States, how in the world can anyone out there
with a functional brain not say you just attacked your
press secretary, who defended you more zealously than almost anyone
on the planet, for first of all, accurately reporting on
a poll that showed that you were up twenty five points.
(22:50):
Loyalty is a one way street to Donald Trump. So
that's the sign. But don't lecture us that this is
some sort of transgression of a describable magnitude, that that
Desantius is running for president.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So I can say this also, I'm seeing this and
and I put this out there, we'll always you know,
if someone listening disagrees with this and they want to
have it, and we all need to be respectful of
each other all the time, I would be curious to
hear how this isn't just based on the logic of
argument and argumentation, how this isn't a problem. I see
(23:24):
people saying it's a primary anything goes to justify whatever
Trump says. And I'll see some of the same people say,
how dare Ron DeSantis or how dare Kaley or whomever
not be loyal to Trump? Hold on a second, is
it a primary anything goes? Or is it there's loyalty
to Trump? That has to be a principle that all
(23:45):
people keep. We need to It can't be both. It
can't be you know, this is a free for all. Interesting,
isn't it. There's that when when Trump does something that
I can't sit here and tell anybody that does anyone
want to take the position that what he said was
fair or a reasonable thing to do? Why do that?
Why lash out of Kaylee mcaninnie. She didn't even do anything.
If he one thing, if she was like I'm pro
(24:07):
DeSantis and I okay, I mean I still think you
shouldn't do. She just ran a poll and it was
a poll that showed Trump kicking DeSantis's butt, and that's
not good enough.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
She's not acceptable new in television. And I think you
can criticize Kaylee mcananey certainly like you can criticize anybody
in public sphere. We get ripped all the time for
everything under the sun. Not being good at television is
not the way that I would choose to go after
Kaylee mcananey. I mean, Carene Jean Pierre is the White
House Press secretary right now and she can't even answer
(24:41):
a basic question. She's incompetent. Kaylee in front of a
camera is a pretty good stud. So the idea, oh,
I'm gonna attack one of the foremost steadfast defenders of
my presidency and say she's not good enough on television
and she's boring is real a strange attack angle.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
And as I've said before with with the Kylee thing,
with what's happened here to anyone out there, Because sometimes
I get this, so and SO is being more fair
on this, They'll say so and SO is being more
fair of Trump on this. Find me the person who
has any significance in the conservative movement. That's like, yeah,
you know, what's a really solid call, you know, taking
(25:24):
a cheap shot at your former press secretary over nothing.
That's that's what the way this game is played. Show
me that person and then we'll have that person come
on this show and try to because what you see
going on here, there's a lot of cowardice play. People
don't want to say anything that's going to get anybody
right now upset at them, and I don't want to
upset anybody either. But we're going to tell the truth.
(25:46):
We're going to tell the truth as we see it.
And you know that's out of respect for the audience,
out of respect for what our mission is here every day.
And all I'm saying is I just want Trump to
focus on the things that matter that he wants to
do for the country. I want to I want to
truym talking to Okay, he mentioned how about another tweet
on how he's gonna I mean, I keep saying tweet truth.
I can't keep it all. But how about another post
(26:07):
on what he's going to do? You know with the anchor,
you know, anchor baby situation and birthrights citizenship, get into
the details a little bit. How about answering the question
why didn't you do it when you were in office
for the first four years? Right, use the platform for
something that matters to the American people, taking a shot,
taking shots at people who have been nothing but loyal
and on your team. I just I don't get it.
(26:29):
I don't understand how anybody thinks that's a good move.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Buck, How did this show make national news last week everywhere?
By me asking Desantists whether he would pardon Trump in
the event that he became president of the United States.
A couple of days before that, I came on the
show and I said, as a matter of principle and precedent,
I think every Republican candidate running for office should say
that they would pardon Donald Trump if they became president
(26:54):
of the United States.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I don't know how there could be a more trump
statement than that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I am literally saying on the air that I want
everyone running for the Republican nomination to pledge that they
will not allow Donald Trump to be locked up and
they will immediately free him from all federal charges as
a precondition to even getting elected.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Look, I I yeah, I mean, I think that's an
important to keeping.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Somebody out of jail is maybe the best thing you
could do it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
So just checked in. I come back to this and
I just say, this is not twenty sixteen. What you
got for a lot of the Trump presidency was people saying,
shut up, he knows what he's doing. And really there
are a lot of folks who won't say this openly,
but they'll talk about the four D chess and they
mean it in a snide way, like everyone always justified
everything Trump did because it was for D chess. Well,
(27:50):
now we've suffered a bad election in twenty eighteen, a
bad presidential election. Really wasn't that bad actually outside of
the presidency if you look at what happened in that House,
et cetera. But a bad twenty twenty election in that
regard and a highly disappointing twenty twenty two election. So
we can either discuss what would make things better and
(28:10):
what can lead to victory. You know, this is about
an economy that lets you pay your bills. This is
about the freedoms, the constitutional freedoms we have in this
country that we need to protect with everything we have.
This is about your family, your kids, your grandkids. What's
best for them. And if we're not going to have
a discussion about what's true in all of that, then
what's really the point just going along because we had
(28:34):
a great victory in twenty sixteen isn't going to serve
us in twenty twenty four. And I put it out
there again, anyone who wants to call in and tell
us that, you know, Clay and I obviously see the
KLi thing very similarly. But and I've told you this
that the advisors around Trump are not They're not politically
(28:57):
astute or virtuous. I'm just gonna say it, the advisors
around him right now or I think leading him astray.
I know who they are. I know them personally, not
all of them, but some of them. And it's a
bad scene. And we can keep going down this road.
Reverence says, don't criticize, don't talk. I'm not taking a
side in terms of who should win the primary. I'm
not saying that I don't think Trump. I'm just saying
(29:18):
we're going to call balls and strikes as they come through.
And isn't that what we should be doing otherwise otherwise?
I mean, I don't just mean us, I mean the
whole country isn't that why we're having a primary to
see how this all plays out. So for me, it's
just disappointing. I want to hear better things. I want
to hear more about policy. I want to hear what
the president, former president and possible future president Trump would
(29:40):
do to turn things around. I started off the show
Clay with eighteen percent of the country right now eighteen percent,
and they're probably just the crazy Libs who are happy
we have a Democrat president. Right it's basically twenty percent
of the country is AOC style left wing insane. That's
the problem, what's going on in the country and the lunatics.
(30:02):
Keley is on our team. She's on the team of
everybody listening. She's on President Trump's team. Let's keep it
real and remember this.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Joe Biden is the weakest potential incumbent president to ever
run for I think, statistically, to ever run for election
in our lives. The focus should all, I think, be
on him. That's the way to win.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
And if you disagree eight hundred two A two two
eight two lines are all open, cleared him out. Let
us know. I would I want to if there will
see well, I wonder this is one time, but I
wonder if we will get a single call. I wonder
if we will get a single call from across the
whole country saying, you know what, I think that that,
I think that him saying that Kelly is basically not
good at her job and his milk toast was okay,
(30:52):
no problem. I'm wondering. I don't know. We'll see eight
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I s X dot com. Sanity in an Insane World.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. I don't know
how many of you had a show that you uh
really remember very fondly growing up in your teenage years.
(32:18):
I think it's I think depending on what generation you are,
I don't know. For some of you, it might be
a happy days. For Clay, it's probably Mash, you know,
because he was a teenager when Mash was.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
And your insistence, by the way, based on three years
of difference, and I'm the same Am I the same
age as your older brother?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, you're the same age as my older brother.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Well.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
What I think is great, though, is people are just like, hey,
you gotta lay off Clay. Like, so he's a little
bit older. We were out to dinner the other day.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
People don't realize this, and and uh and they were like, uh,
somehow our ages came up and they said, Buck, you
look you look really young for your age, which implies
to me that I look super old for my age.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I tell you, Edward three years apart Clay, Like Clay,
I could have been on the same, like high school
athletics team. He could have been hating me.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
That's a good point in the locker room of and
a freshman when I was a senior.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yep, yep, we could have been on the same high
school team. But I do. I love this joke because
occasionally people kind of miss the joke and they're just like, hey, hey,
lay off you know Clay's you know, it's like it's
like Clay's anyway, you haven't been through the War of
three kids yet. Yeah, it will age you. They will
aige you.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I mean, the lack of sleep for about twenty straight
years or whatever it is, sixteen straight years of having kids.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Now that we're all grown up. You know, my mom,
who had four, she always says she she if she
could go back, she would have eight. And I'm always like, well,
is that because you've Is that because the four have
all grown up and you're now in grandma mode?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So it's I would, you know, I would keep having them.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
We had Katie, who you've met, has been with us
for almost nine years now, and initially she was in
charge of taking care of all the kids. Buck Now
she's kind of in charge of me, and she's having
a baby, and so I feel like we're having another baby.
I'm into the household, and I'm excited about it because
I would keep having So I'm encouraging you and Carrie,
however many kids you want?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Add one? Yeah, And one day I'll tell stories of
I actually had an English nanny growing up, and she
would walk around and she would just uh. She she
would get fearious. She'd be like, did you take m keys?
Did did I? Did we take her keys? And she
had always had them on a little necklace around her neck,
but we could never get her. She always thought I
was taking I was like five, like, I didn't take
your keys, lady, I swear anyway, she was very Misus Doubtfire. Oh, actually,
(34:30):
Missus Doubtfire. We look at this differently now, the whole
Missus Doubtfire situation one of the biggest movies of the nineties. Actually,
you know that I.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Would be totally unacceptable, although I made that argument, and
then people said, you know, Medea might be the one
that protects Missus doubtfire because.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
If you cancel miss doutfire, if you cancel media. So
how we got on this other other than other than
the silly stuff it was. I remember I grew up
and that the shows that had the most impact on
my on my formative you know, teenage years, would be
Beverly Hills nine o two and oh maybe this explains
a lot of my worldview and saved by the Bell right.
(35:08):
So Beverly Hills nine o two and OO would say
both both said in California, which is interesting to me now.
Would always say, I grew up thinking California was the
promised land that I would move to somewhere when I
was older. But for a lot of people, it was
Dawson's Creek, which I watched a little bit of. And
this is what got me thinking about this. How many
of you remember the show Dawson's Creek, Guys and Girls.
I liked it to forty five and under. I think,
(35:30):
would would you know, be probably Dawson's Creek, you know
from I don't know what the age limit would be.
A point being James Vanderbeek, who played Dawson in Dawson's Creek.
I haven't I haven't seen him in public in a
very long time. I don't know what the guy's been
up to. You know, he hopefully he's doing great, you know,
selling insurance out in Scottsdale or something. I have no
(35:51):
idea what he's doing. But here he is pointing out
that the DNC is just in this all out shutdown mode.
He says, no debate democracy, And that's an interesting point.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Play A cannot get over the fact that the Democratic
National Committee is saying they will not be a debate.
They assigned the nominee for president. Are you kidding me?
There's no debate. There's no debate over an eighty year
old man, if he lives, would be the oldest sitting
president in the history of the country. And if he
(36:24):
doesn't live as a vice president who's approval rating is
worse than his, how do we have a government? How
do we have a democracy? If we're letting a small,
little back room of people make all the important decisions
for us, that's not a democracy. And it doesn't work
because y'all have been wrong about a lot these last
(36:44):
couple of years in that back room. No debate nor democracy.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Dawson's Creek for the wind, Clay Boyden's something out here.
Democrats aren't allowed to even talk about the fact that
Biden's so old it's preposterous.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I talked about this on Fox News, and I never
would have believed that this would be the case that
we would be reacting to. James Vanderbeek aka Dawson Leary
aka Varsity Blues Johnny Moxon one of the all time
great high school sports movies high school movies maybe period.
(37:16):
He was phenomenal in that as a Texas high school
quarterback legend. But buck he also said Biden's got dementia
as a part of this, and it's fascinating to me
that Dawson Leary James Vanderbeek is more insightful on the
DNC process than anyone on MSNBC or CNN has been
(37:41):
so far throughout the primary season.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Isn't basic honesty a fascinating thing when it's getting swept
away for so long? There's not a single Democrat who
could make a case that Joe Biden is not beyond
the senior moments that would raise questions about this, not
a single one. Yeah, and yet they all go along
with this. It really does feel like a mass formation
(38:05):
or mass formation psychosis. It feels like everybody on the
Democrat side has to go along with this craziness that
they don't believe in. And then that brings me to this.
I got it. Look, I gotta say another friend, you know,
we talked about Kelly before, another friend of the show,
Bill O'Reilly right. I remember watching you know, back back,
god back when I was in college, and afterwards watching
Bill at eight pm on Fox for many years. Talented broadcaster,
(38:30):
you know, and he's been on the show a few
times talking about his books, and you will recall he
got one thing totally right. He came on and he said, well,
Buck is a brilliant guy and a genius, but he's
and then he got the thing wrong, and he said,
but he's totally wrong about Biden being the nominee. Now
Biden has announced, So in my head, I was thinking, look,
I don't want to be that guy that says, haha,
I got this right. But I was thinking to myself, well, haha, Bill,
(38:52):
I got this one right. I want to be clear, Bill,
we got him here. Bill is still sticking with the
prediction of Buddy and I I admire the gumption. Is
that the right word? That's yes, that's the right one.
I admire the gumption here. He still believes at this
point Biden will not be the nominee. Play nine.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
The problems that we are facing now, particularly with this
axis of evil, are very, very worrisome. And the open border,
as I said, oh boy, it's going to lead to
this real, real trouble. And he does not have control,
Biden of the federal branch of government, the executive branch,
he just doesn't have control of it.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
He will not run again.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
I sticking by my prediction he will not be the
Democratic nominee.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Can what's what's your sense of this one?
Speaker 2 (39:45):
So I I understand the argument of why Biden is
not going to be the nominee here's the challenge. Maybe
we need to get Bill O'Riley on to one.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
But do it. But do you do you agree or disagree?
Do you think he is or is not at this point?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So if he's not going to be the nominee, they
have to force him out by September. And the reason
why I say that is if they wait till after September,
Kamala Harris is going to be the nominee. And there
is a zero percent chance that they want Kamala as
the nominee. So the logic behind his opinion is Biden
(40:19):
is too weak of an incumbent to be the standard
bearer for Democrats in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I think Biden is going to be the weakest incumbent
president in any of our.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Lives, and I think he should lose. Not that he will,
but I think he should lose.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
The problem is the protection on some level for Biden
here buck is Kamala would be an even worse candidate.
So if they are going to try to force Biden out,
they have to open up the primary process and allow
an actual race to take place.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So I I think.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's the logical choice Buck, I really do, but I
think it has to happen by Labor Day.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
All right, Well, I'm just I'm doubling down on Biden's
gonna be the nominee. Everybody just to.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Be I were betting right now I would go Biden nominee. Remember,
like maybe a month ago, I felt like the long
knives were coming out when the Washington Post had their
story about how awful, and then nothing really came of it.
It kind of has faded. If they're going to force
him out, and it would be a force out, it
has to happen, by the way, to be clear, a
(41:26):
true and sudden health issue of some kind. Yeah, that's
not I mean that could still, but that can happen
to literally any president. That could happen to anyone who
is running for office. I mean, you know, God forbid,
but you never know. But in terms of the political
decision making and calculus at this point, I think I
think it has to be.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
But you know what we you know we should do.
Why don't we get Bill back on?
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Bill?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
We should have it back on because it has to happen.
You agree with me.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
If it's going to happen non health related, it would
have to happen in the next ninety days or so,
because they would not want Kamala if it happens next year,
Kamala is the nominee, right they we don't want Kamala
as a nominee, so the force out is to get
a better choice. Kamala is a worse choice than Biden.
Can I tell you something I think.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Some people think is crazy and light up those lines
with this debate we're having here eight hundred two two
two eight a two. I think Democrats think they have
a better chance of getting Kamala elected president than they
would avenusom. I really believe that. I think they think
that she would be better. Let's let's we let that
maritate a little bit. I could explain why, but we
come back. Yeah, we'll come back to it in a moment.
(42:30):
But you know, the other week, I got to host
an in depth interview online with an extraordinary market analyst
with a name that I know well, Nason Sexton. He's
also my dad. Look, I'm very proud of his career,
including what he's focusing on now what she calls the
Great Disruption of twenty twenty three. In the past on TV,
Dad predicted the stock market crash of nineteen eighty seven,
(42:51):
the top of the market before the COVID crash. He's
had many major calls that have been verified that are
in print. What he sees coming now is unlike anything
we've ever scene, and you can get in on it now,
so you know how to prepare and what to do.
In this interview, he revealed the exact date, in fact,
this July, when he thinks things turn ugly in the markets.
We've already already been seeing the signs of disruption. Banks
(43:13):
going under, real estate losing its value at a rapid
rate inflation, causing sticker shock at the grocery store. My
dad Mason will tell you why he thinks most analysts
are wrong about a coming lost decade in stocks. Why
what's coming could be much worse than many ways. This
is his first major prediction for the public in thirty years.
If you missed it, the video is still up you
(43:33):
can watch it. Go check it out. The replay is
available now at Disruption twenty twenty three dot com. That's
Disruption twenty twenty three dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Peek out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with
Clay and Buck podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
A new episode every Sunday.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Find it on the iHeart app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Welcome back. We've got our friend Ian Miller with us now.
He is a writer for out Kick and author of
a new book, Illusion of Control, COVID nineteen and the
Collapse of Expertise. Ian, Welcome back to the show. I'm
assuming this is not a lot of Fauci is brilliant
and right analysis. Tell us what you get into in
(44:15):
this book.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
That's that's a good assumption. Yeah, it is kind of
going in detail on Fauci and the CEC and a
lot of other experts about how they kind of mismanaged
virtually everything about the COVID pandemic and our response to it,
and the mistakes they made, and more importantly, you know,
pointing out how little accountability there was. You know, they've
never took any responsibility for the mistakes that they've made,
(44:38):
they've never acknowledged half of them, and a lot of cases
they're still kind of maintaining that a lot of these
policies were actually effective. And so the case of the
book has kind of make this comprehensive overview of why
that's wrong, how they got it wrong, and why we
need to hold them accountable going forward.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
So Ian, when you see arguments being made that Florida
COVID poorly, that the rate of death in Florida was bad,
this is actually the argument that Trump is now trotting
out against Ron DeSantis. You are a data guy, You
spent and you lived in California, so you had to
deal with all the craziness of Gavin Newsom. You shared
(45:17):
incredible charts over the years. How did Florida do relative
to the rest of the country.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
What sort of.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Benefit if any, did say New York and California gained
from shutting down? What is the raw data intelligently analyzed tell.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Us right, well, and it's the exact opposite conclusion of
what kind of the messaging has been. If you look
at age digested code of mortality, because obviously Florida has
a much more elderly population compared to New York and California,
Florida outperformed the rest of the country that had a
much lower age adjusted COVID death rate than New York.
Despite New Yors' lockdowns, had lower excess mortality than California,
(45:59):
meaning fewer people then over the expected normal died in
Florida and in California and Florida benefited because they kept
their economy open as much as possible and kept kids
in schools, and which is going to have huge positive
effects down the road. You know, California and New York
have both been losing huge numbers of people in New
York City lost almost half a million people in just
a couple of years. That's a huge that's a huge difference,
(46:20):
with a lot of them going to Florida because it
was open and because they could get their kids in schools. So,
you know, trying to revision his history of trying to
stay Florida didn't perform well, is just not backed up
by data at all.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Ian, is there any sign that you're seeing And as
part of the research for the book, did you find
meaningful maya culpas from major medical institutions from you know,
the science as it was known for a while, not
just from the faucies, the CDCs, the NIHS, et cetera,
(46:54):
but you know, major hospital systems, the so called consensus
about so much of this stuff that was shockingly wrong.
I mean, the data, as I've been talking about on
this show, the data on for example, the frenzy to
put everybody on ventilators shows they were killing people by
putting them on ventilators. There were a lot of people
(47:15):
who would have survived their first bout with COVID who
were put on a ventilator far too quickly because there
was a panic in the medical community. Is anyone saying
we're sorry, we're we got this wrong, or does everyone
just move past it in the medical field at these
big institutions and act like it didn't happen.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Definitely the latter. Pretty much everybody is just trying to
move on and kind of quietly dismiss everything and not
really take any responsibility or acknowledge that they were wrong
about this stuff. Like you said, ventilators are a huge issue,
you know, masking people forever and masking toddlers, And the
CDC director came out there not long ago and said,
you know, our guidance doesn't really change over time. We're
(47:53):
going to continue to recommend masking kids essentially forever. Based
off of community transmission. I think, you know, obviously public
health agencies, but in particular a lot of these hospital
systems that were very openly promoting all the vaccine passports
and things like that, they just kind of want to
move past it because I think everybody could see at
this point, or of people that have been paying attention,
that they were wrong. The data shows that were wrong.
(48:16):
Everybody got COVID anyway, despite what all these experts were
saying to do, and so I think they feel like
it would undermine their credibility if they admitted that they
got this wrong and that they made mistakes. So instead
they're just kind of trying to move past it. If anything,
there's been I mean a shocking lack of accountability as
opposed to kind of taking responsibility for their actions.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Ian now that we look back where three years removed.
I think you wrote an article at OutKick about the
fact that only now is air travel getting back to
where it was when we shut down in March of
twenty twenty, which is really kind of crazy to think
about the three years. What country did actually handle COVID?
(48:59):
The best is there now that we've got three years
of data and we can look and analyze all the
different perspectives. We talk about states, but is it Sweden?
Like if you could point to a European or United
States or you know, the North American country, is there
a country that you think handled COVID really well and
(49:19):
if so, who and what should we have done in retrospect?
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Yeah, it has to be Sweden. I mean they did
the most to keep their economy moving. They didn't close
schools if at all, or for very limited age groups.
We are very limited amount of time. You know, there
were no mask manmates generally for the whole country basically,
And what's so frustrating is that they essentially followed all
of these pre COVID pandemic planning documents that all these
(49:44):
public health agencies spent years developing. They followed it. Everybody
else panicked and threw it out, and you know, I
write a chapter about it in the book. But you
can compare Sweden to all these other countries, to European countries,
and basically in every comparison they come out looking really well,
where you know, they have lower excess mortality rates or
they overperformed compared to other countries that have some more populations.
(50:04):
And they did it all without disrupting their population as
much as we did in the United States and most
states especially or places like Australia or New Zealand that
went the entire opposite direction. And if you look Australia
has now had you know, huge excess mortality rates where
over the last year and a half. So I think
there's a there's a clear winner here in Sweden. And
it's not that they did anything particularly special. It's just
(50:26):
that they actually followed the guidance that everybody had set
out before COVID. For some reason, our experts just completely
panicked and throw it out, and they stayed strong.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
The book is Illusion of Control COVID nineteen and the
Collapse of Expertise. Ian Miller, thanks for being with.
Speaker 4 (50:42):
Us, well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
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Welcome to today's edition of The Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Welcome everybody. Wednesday edition of The Clay
Travis and Buck Sexton Show kicks off right now. Appreciates
you rollin' with us. We have a very stacked show today,
no surprise, it's going to be getting very busy day
in and day out as we enter this presidential election.
(00:23):
Cycled Also some interesting polling out that we can get
to in a moment. Eighteen percent. This is from Gallup.
Eighteen percent of Americans are satisfied with the state of
the nation. Now, you might say, well, are people always
a little curmudgeonly and salty about the state of the nation. Well,
it's usually about thirty five percent of people are satisfied,
(00:46):
So that's a substantial drop. Hmmm. You mean Joe Biden
and the lunatic communists around him are doing things that
make people less prosperous, safe, happy, and sane. Yes, we
tell you about this. We can come back to it
though in a second. Obviously, the House about to vote
on the debt limit bill. Has that happened just quite yet.
(01:08):
I think it's any It's gonna be happening shortly. Here
so we'll check the latest on that. Ron DeSantis kicked
off his campaign with a stop in Iowa. The Trump
DeSantis throwdown is getting, shall we say, more heated, more interesting.
(01:29):
Donald Trump. Also, those of you who are very online,
as in spend time on Twitter probably saw and some
of you might have even seen it on Facebook or
other places. Trump had some comments about his former Press secretary,
Kaylee mcinenny, who's a friend of mine, a friend of Clay's.
We will discuss what the former president's truth social post
(01:52):
was all about. That'll be coming up. There's some interesting
a lot of interesting stuff, even I think interesting stuff
going on in the sports world right now with the
Dodgers and now a Toronto Blue Jays player making the
requisite I'm sorry I offended the Wokeness hostage video. Clay
will lay some of that out for some of that
(02:13):
out for us. We've got a political development that I
want to dive into here in a second. But first, Clay,
I don't know how many of you remember the movie
road Trip, but there's a whole scene with what was
that comedian's name where he says was it Tom Green?
Is that right? Tom Green? And he says he's going
to unleash the fury. Clay just gotta. Clay just put
(02:35):
out a tweet and I was like, Clay, are you
unleashing the fury with a tweet about something happening at ESPN?
What happened? Clay? What's going on? And we can we
want to return to this in a little a little later.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, next hour. I'm going to dive into this in
a big way. But tomorrow is Pride Month, and you
all know that. I mean, it is the game day
of the year, and that's not meant as an insult.
June first is the gayest day of the year, where
everybody is bedecked in Pride flags and uh, and it
(03:10):
is impossible to mis gat a mistake the entire month.
Many people have pointed out that we get one day
to celebrate those who have died serving our country, we
get a full month to celebrate gay people. That obviously
always happens with Memorial Day coming in close consult with June.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
First, so ESPN. So there's evan.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I had to do research on this, Buck, and I
don't know if you are aware of this. Traditionally, the
Pride flag is just a rainbow, right, yes, because the
rainbow in theory would represent all colors. They have now
modified the rainbow because the rainbow was not inclusive enough
(03:52):
and they now have like some sort of like arrow.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That is a transflag trans flag. Well they consider to
be the trends like oh oh, I study leftism constantly.
I know they've changed this one, But isn't it fascinating
because this isn't the whole point of the rainbow that
it is all the colors, literally every whole point. The
whole point is that it's supposed to be everything.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, there literally could not be anyone not incorporated in
the rainbow flag, which was the entire purpose of the rainbow,
which now has been taken over by gay people.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I don't this happened.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
In conversation recently, one of my kids said, uh, you know,
every time I see an actual rainbow, I think now
about the gay pride flag because the gay community has
so taken over the rainbow.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You haven't, though, unleashed the furious so to speak, on
Twitter by breaking some news and then seeing all the
reaction to it. What's going on?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So this year ESPN is not just raising the gay flag.
I am told this is the first year that they
will be raising the t transgender gay flag. Now, some
of you out there may say, Okay, what's the significance here.
ESPN right now is foremost in advocating for men who
(05:12):
identify as women to be able to participate in women's athletics,
and in fact, ESPN ran and I believe we played
it on this show an advertisement Buck calling Leah Thomas
one of the women's sports heroes of the year. This
is a dude who was around the four hundredth best
college men swimmer, who became the best women swimmer, and
(05:35):
I believe the five hundred meter if I remember correctly
set the NCAA championship this past March. So they have
had a few brave people who have spoken out. Sam Ponder,
who some of you may know, Sage Steele. Two women
have come out and said this is ridiculous. I'm not
going to allow this to happen anymore without speaking out
(05:56):
on it. So this feels buck like a direct shot
back at those women. Sam Ponder was called a bigot
by USA Today for advocating for women's sports to only
be a part of women. So they are now having
a public flag raising of the transgender flag over the Bristol,
Connecticut campus of ESPN, as many of their female employees
(06:20):
who are speaking out are being called bigots and transphobes,
and so this feels like a direct corporate shot at
those employees who are speaking out on behalf of women's athletics.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It strikes me, Clay that it is entirely now, because
of a Supreme Court decision some years ago, legal to
burn the American flag as a form of speech. But
I have seen numerous stories recently of people not even
necessarily damaging a flag. But let's say, wasn't there someone
(06:53):
who I think left tire skid marks on a Pride
mural or something, yes, in the street, and that's a
hate crime. But burning, So if you burn a Pride flag,
if you own the flag, that is criminal. But if
you burn an American flag that has protected speech, do
I have that right? Because that's the way it seems.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I think it has not gone to the Supreme Court,
And so there are states that are prosecuting to you
what I'm saying right now, there are places where you
could so you can be.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Prosecuted for burning it. I just want every to be
clear on this, because there are cases people are prosecuted
for burning a Pride flag. You will not be prosecuted
for burning an American flag. In fact, the left will
tell you that's the highest form of patriotism.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, and I think in our staff can correct me
if I'm wrong on this. But I believe, and this
sounds like a made up hypothetical story that would be
in a law school exam. I believe a homeless man
they are now called unhoused people.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yes, I know that changed the term again. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, homeless man used a gay Pride flag to wipe
his bottom and was charged with a crime.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
In New York City for a crime. So that's right crime.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And so I suspect buck, this will go all the
way to the Supreme Court. And I am such a
free speech absolutist, and I understand some of you are
going to disagree with this. I actually think you should
be able to burn the American flag. I disagree with it.
I don't support it in any way. I want to
be clean, But.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Then should you be able to burn a Pride flag?
One hundred percent, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think this would go all the way to the
Supreme Court because it is a form of political commentary,
whether you agree with it or not, the logic and
consistency there would require that these statutes which seek to
punish people for doing so are unconstitutional.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And this is why hate crime laws are slippery slope.
There are crimes, right, There are crimes that people should
be punished for. The notion that there are things where
you could be punished for action that is otherwise entirely
legal because it offends certain people. No, I just agree
with that there are cases even in I remember actually
(09:03):
actually did my college thesis twenty years ago now on
campus speech codes and the various ways. Now I entered
this as private institutions, but they would find ways to punish,
and they would use criminal law as the basis for
it to punish people for doing things that would be
entirely protected under all circumstances, except the wrong feelings are
(09:24):
hurt and then all of a sudden there has to
be action. So I think that's an interesting side component
of this debate. We've kind of gotten deeper into this
now than we had anticipated, so we'll have to hold
some of the political discussion about the primary for a
few minutes. But Clay, can you tell me about this?
I think we have it right the Blue Here we
Go Blue Jays picture Anthony Bass apologize for a posting
(09:50):
a video endorsing boycotts of places like Target and bud
Light Play five.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I recognized yesterday I made a post that wass frightful
to the pride of the community, which includes friends of
mine and clost family members of mine, and I am
truly sorry for that. I just spoke with my teammates
and shire within my actions yesterday, I apologize with them
and as right now, I'm using the Blue Jays resources
(10:17):
to better educate myself.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh god, yeah, I can't. I can't, honestly, I can't.
I'm using the resources, but I'm I'm I'm excited to
go into the re education camp where my transgressions will
result in struggle sessions. Give me a break, Clay, Like,
I mean, this is this is why we actually need
you know, you need to take action. You need to
speak out because otherwise this happens to everybody. Well.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And and by the way, the groveling doesn't work because
a Toronto newspaper columnist has already demanded that this guy
be fired. Of course, right, because even when you throw
yourself prostrate on the apology Olympics here to try to
apologize for things that you actually believe that managed in
(11:03):
some way to upset someone. It isn't actually, it isn't
actually possible to do so.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
In Soulzanitsyn's Gulag Archipelago, there's a really haunting There are
some haunting passages really where he gets into your initial
arrest on your way to being sent to the Gulag
and the apparatus functionaries who would be there, you know,
interrogating you, torturing you and everything else. They knew you
were innocent, but they wanted you to give a confession
(11:33):
just because then that made the process of completely destroying
you even easier, and they would get more and more
frustrated the longer you held out on that confession. But
the point is confessing did nothing for you. Like they
would say, just confess and we'll make it stop. Just confess. No,
when you confess, then they send you to the Gulag
for ten or twenty years, and your you know, the
chance of survival is very very slim. That's the way
(11:55):
it is to bend the need to the woke mob.
It's not like your confession results in in some better
treatment for you. Your confession merely becomes admission of you being
a bad person that needs to be punished. Further so,
there's never any point in it. That's why this guy
I feel, Look, he's a picture. Is he a very
good picture? I have no idea. Is he a good player?
(12:16):
You know what? Buck?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
This is one of those things where I know a
lot about the Atlanta Braves.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
My chosen I.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Okay, buddy, put me on blast here for being inadequately
knowledgeable about the Toronto Blue Jays roster. Many of you
out there maybe Toronto Blue Jay roster experts.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I am not for the baseball fans of the audience.
Trust me. If this guy was a second string tight
end playing in the SEC twenty years ago, Clay would
Clay would tell you what his class schedule was. But okay,
Blue Jays, Yes, yeah, so anyway, but this guy apologizes
and what does he get for it? Nothing? But it's
it's fascinating. This is now when people are starting to say,
(12:58):
maybe we should step up. Remember this is for Butler.
He shared I think he shared or liked a video.
It wasn't even him talking about endorsement. I mean a
boycotting bud Light and boycotting Target, but because he liked
that action, which remember, in the Target situation, it's for
making bathing suits that hide men's penises that are supposed
(13:18):
to be women's bathing suits. Okay, that's really what.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
We're apologizing for, the thing like, what have you done
that's so transgressive?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So the I just it's the groveling. I hate when
they make people do this. I hate when they make
people do this, But it's it's not about him. I
would just know any one ever groveled for a left
wing opinion trying to think.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
There have problems. I mean, I'm sure we could find
some people who didn't say the right thing and the
left came after them.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, No, I mean for having too far left wing
of an opinion. Not like I misspoke and like said
something and people were mad at me. I mean, like
you said the most outlandish, far left wing thing imaginable.
I can't recall anyone ever being required to apologize.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
For that now I can't either. I think they always
leave space for that. But there's also maybe a lesson here,
which is that our side gets distracted fighting with each
other or trying to play kate the other side their
side has an amazing and consistent focus on destroying the country,
So there's something to be learned. Something to be learned.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Ever, apologize period, not if you sometimes misspeak. We might
say something stupid on this show. Trust us. I'm sure
you probably think we do it all the time. But
apology for misspeaking is different than apologizing for what you
actually believe in. You should never do the latter.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We have an announcement about somebody not like we are now,
Just to be clear, we're not announcing it, but there
is an announcement out there about somebody else who is
entering the presidential contest here on the Republican side. We
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Speaker 4 (16:22):
Truth seeking, reality telling The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. We've talked about Chris
Christi entering the race. Buck, as we start off our
number two here headline in the Messenger, which is a
new media startup, Former Vice President Mike Pence to launch
campaign for White House within two weeks. Pence, this is
(16:53):
the headline. Penns, who was pulling in single digits, believes
he hasn't laye with evangelicals in the GOP primary.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Buck.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
This is fascinating to me for a couple of reasons. One,
Donald Trump has not accused Mike Pence of disloyalty for
running for president against him.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Now, this is.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Interesting to me because there aren't very many precedents in
all of American politics when a vice president has competed
against a president for the nomination of a political party. Obviously,
we don't get a lot of opportunities for situations like
this to arise. To me, is evidence that Donald Trump
(17:37):
does not see Mike Pence as a threat. Hence he
hasn't branded his former vice president as disloyal for running
against him. Second part of this, with this news coming out,
Trump went after Kaylee mcinnaney really aggressively.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Last night.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Kaylee was sitting in leave for Laura Ingram on Fox News,
and many of you will remember and recall Kaylee was
among the most steadfast Trump defenders on the planet as
Trump's White House Press secretary, Buck is it fair to
say in terms of public employees that Kaylee would have
(18:22):
to be one of the ten most loyal Trump Trump
White House members in terms of having again public jobs
where you would go out and argue on behalf of
the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, absolutely. And she, unlike many of the people, particularly
in the in the calm side of the White House
and the strategic communication side, has remained loyal to both
Trump personally and to the policies that he pursued as
(18:57):
president without fail, including in the weeks after the twenty
twenty election and after January sixth too. She could have
very easily tried to do what some others have done,
which is turn their back on Trump and try to
leverage those moments for gain in the media. She didn't
(19:19):
do that. You and I both know, Kelly, we are
not unbiased in this conversation insofar as we both think
highly of Kelly, So yeah, we think highly of Trump
in some ways. But some days lately I'm getting a
little frustrated and I'm trying to just be fair about
(19:40):
all of this because I want this clay for everyone
to feel like, you know, throughout the primary, this is
their family dinner table. People are gonna disagree, people are
gonna call in, They're gonna email us, They're gonna like
some things that we're sharing on the air. They're gonna
disagree with some assessments and analysis. That's fine. It's a
primary that's gonna happen, But there are things that also
can happen. You go, hold on a second, what's what's
(20:02):
that all about? Come on, like, knock it off?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Have you?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
You want to tell everybody what the what the truth?
Social again?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, And I'm pulling it up right now to make
sure so for and I understand a lot of people
out there are not in sort of the social media ecosystem.
You're not looking at what Trump says or what somebody
else says back and forth on a day to day basis. Uh,
but here is what he said, uh Tuesday last night,
(20:31):
he said Kaylee milk toast mcainnaney. And by the way,
milk toast is not spelled milk and toast are, which
is how Trump spelled. It just gave out the wrong
poll numbers on Fox News. I am thirty four points
up on the sanctimonious, not twenty five. While twenty five
(20:55):
is great, it's not thirty four. She knew the number
was correct upwards by the group that did the poll.
The rhinos and globalist can have her. Fox News should
only use all caps real stars.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
So now the poll that Kaylee cited is a real poll.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So you and I have seen the poll that she cited,
and she wasn't taking an analytic position on them. She
wasn't saying this poll shows that Trump. She was just saying, look,
there's a poll out that says, Look, I mean, if
people can say whatever they want, they can justifight a
million ways. It's an unnecessary, cheap shot, and it was
a bad look, bad look. It's just not something that
(21:40):
there's so much to fight against. On the other side,
There's so much to point out of the failures of
the Biden regime. There's so much to talk about for
what Trump would want to do in the future, You're
gonna take a cheap shot of kale ol over nothing.
It'd be one thing if she started, and anyone who
tells me in the Twitter comments or whatever, she did
not she read a poll, and the poll was very
(22:01):
favorable for Trump.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Twenty five versus thirty four. It's a big lead either direction.
And the poll she cided was accurate. And here's the thing.
If you are going and it ties into me with
the Pence argument and also the Ronda Santis argument, If
you are going to argue that ron de Santis is
being disloyal to you by running for president of the
(22:26):
United States, how in the world can anyone out there
with a functional brain not say you just attacked your
press secretary, who defended you more zealously than almost anyone
on the planet, for first of all, accurately reporting on
a poll that showed that you were up twenty five points.
(22:50):
Loyalty is a one way street to Donald Trump. So
that's the sign. But don't lecture us that this is
some sort of transgression of a describable magnitude, that that
Desantius is running for president.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So I can say this also, I'm seeing this and
and I put this out there, we'll always you know,
if someone listening disagrees with this and they want to
have it, and we all need to be respectful of
each other all the time, I would be curious to
hear how this isn't just based on the logic of
argument and argumentation, how this isn't a problem. I see
(23:24):
people saying it's a primary anything goes to justify whatever
Trump says. And I'll see some of the same people say,
how dare Ron DeSantis or how dare Kaley or whomever
not be loyal to Trump? Hold on a second, is
it a primary anything goes? Or is it there's loyalty
to Trump? That has to be a principle that all
(23:45):
people keep. We need to It can't be both. It
can't be you know, this is a free for all. Interesting,
isn't it. There's that when when Trump does something that
I can't sit here and tell anybody that does anyone
want to take the position that what he said was
fair or a reasonable thing to do? Why do that?
Why lash out of Kaylee mcaninnie. She didn't even do anything.
If he one thing, if she was like I'm pro
(24:07):
DeSantis and I okay, I mean I still think you
shouldn't do. She just ran a poll and it was
a poll that showed Trump kicking DeSantis's butt, and that's
not good enough.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
She's not acceptable new in television. And I think you
can criticize Kaylee mcananey certainly like you can criticize anybody
in public sphere. We get ripped all the time for
everything under the sun. Not being good at television is
not the way that I would choose to go after
Kaylee mcananey. I mean, Carene Jean Pierre is the White
House Press secretary right now and she can't even answer
(24:41):
a basic question. She's incompetent. Kaylee in front of a
camera is a pretty good stud. So the idea, oh,
I'm gonna attack one of the foremost steadfast defenders of
my presidency and say she's not good enough on television
and she's boring is real a strange attack angle.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
And as I've said before with with the Kylee thing,
with what's happened here to anyone out there, Because sometimes
I get this, so and SO is being more fair
on this, They'll say so and SO is being more
fair of Trump on this. Find me the person who
has any significance in the conservative movement. That's like, yeah,
you know, what's a really solid call, you know, taking
(25:24):
a cheap shot at your former press secretary over nothing.
That's that's what the way this game is played. Show
me that person and then we'll have that person come
on this show and try to because what you see
going on here, there's a lot of cowardice play. People
don't want to say anything that's going to get anybody
right now upset at them, and I don't want to
upset anybody either. But we're going to tell the truth.
(25:46):
We're going to tell the truth as we see it.
And you know that's out of respect for the audience,
out of respect for what our mission is here every day.
And all I'm saying is I just want Trump to
focus on the things that matter that he wants to
do for the country. I want to I want to
truym talking to Okay, he mentioned how about another tweet
on how he's gonna I mean, I keep saying tweet truth.
I can't keep it all. But how about another post
(26:07):
on what he's going to do? You know with the anchor,
you know, anchor baby situation and birthrights citizenship, get into
the details a little bit. How about answering the question
why didn't you do it when you were in office
for the first four years? Right, use the platform for
something that matters to the American people, taking a shot,
taking shots at people who have been nothing but loyal
and on your team. I just I don't get it.
(26:29):
I don't understand how anybody thinks that's a good move.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Buck, How did this show make national news last week everywhere?
By me asking Desantists whether he would pardon Trump in
the event that he became president of the United States.
A couple of days before that, I came on the
show and I said, as a matter of principle and precedent,
I think every Republican candidate running for office should say
that they would pardon Donald Trump if they became president
(26:54):
of the United States.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I don't know how there could be a more trump
statement than that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I am literally saying on the air that I want
everyone running for the Republican nomination to pledge that they
will not allow Donald Trump to be locked up and
they will immediately free him from all federal charges as
a precondition to even getting elected.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Look, I I yeah, I mean, I think that's an
important to keeping.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Somebody out of jail is maybe the best thing you
could do it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
So just checked in. I come back to this and
I just say, this is not twenty sixteen. What you
got for a lot of the Trump presidency was people saying,
shut up, he knows what he's doing. And really there
are a lot of folks who won't say this openly,
but they'll talk about the four D chess and they
mean it in a snide way, like everyone always justified
everything Trump did because it was for D chess. Well,
(27:50):
now we've suffered a bad election in twenty eighteen, a
bad presidential election. Really wasn't that bad actually outside of
the presidency if you look at what happened in that House,
et cetera. But a bad twenty twenty election in that
regard and a highly disappointing twenty twenty two election. So
we can either discuss what would make things better and
(28:10):
what can lead to victory. You know, this is about
an economy that lets you pay your bills. This is
about the freedoms, the constitutional freedoms we have in this
country that we need to protect with everything we have.
This is about your family, your kids, your grandkids. What's
best for them. And if we're not going to have
a discussion about what's true in all of that, then
what's really the point just going along because we had
(28:34):
a great victory in twenty sixteen isn't going to serve
us in twenty twenty four. And I put it out
there again, anyone who wants to call in and tell
us that, you know, Clay and I obviously see the
KLi thing very similarly. But and I've told you this
that the advisors around Trump are not They're not politically
(28:57):
astute or virtuous. I'm just gonna say it, the advisors
around him right now or I think leading him astray.
I know who they are. I know them personally, not
all of them, but some of them. And it's a
bad scene. And we can keep going down this road.
Reverence says, don't criticize, don't talk. I'm not taking a
side in terms of who should win the primary. I'm
not saying that I don't think Trump. I'm just saying
(29:18):
we're going to call balls and strikes as they come through.
And isn't that what we should be doing otherwise otherwise?
I mean, I don't just mean us, I mean the
whole country isn't that why we're having a primary to
see how this all plays out. So for me, it's
just disappointing. I want to hear better things. I want
to hear more about policy. I want to hear what
the president, former president and possible future president Trump would
(29:40):
do to turn things around. I started off the show
Clay with eighteen percent of the country right now eighteen percent,
and they're probably just the crazy Libs who are happy
we have a Democrat president. Right it's basically twenty percent
of the country is AOC style left wing insane. That's
the problem, what's going on in the country and the lunatics.
(30:02):
Keley is on our team. She's on the team of
everybody listening. She's on President Trump's team. Let's keep it
real and remember this.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Joe Biden is the weakest potential incumbent president to ever
run for I think, statistically, to ever run for election
in our lives. The focus should all, I think, be
on him. That's the way to win.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
And if you disagree eight hundred two A two two
eight two lines are all open, cleared him out. Let
us know. I would I want to if there will
see well, I wonder this is one time, but I
wonder if we will get a single call. I wonder
if we will get a single call from across the
whole country saying, you know what, I think that that,
I think that him saying that Kelly is basically not
good at her job and his milk toast was okay,
(30:52):
no problem. I'm wondering. I don't know. We'll see eight
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I s X dot com. Sanity in an Insane World.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. I don't know
how many of you had a show that you uh
really remember very fondly growing up in your teenage years.
(32:18):
I think it's I think depending on what generation you are,
I don't know. For some of you, it might be
a happy days. For Clay, it's probably Mash, you know,
because he was a teenager when Mash was.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
And your insistence, by the way, based on three years
of difference, and I'm the same Am I the same
age as your older brother?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, you're the same age as my older brother.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Well.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
What I think is great, though, is people are just like, hey,
you gotta lay off Clay. Like, so he's a little
bit older. We were out to dinner the other day.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
People don't realize this, and and uh and they were like, uh,
somehow our ages came up and they said, Buck, you
look you look really young for your age, which implies
to me that I look super old for my age.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I tell you, Edward three years apart Clay, Like Clay,
I could have been on the same, like high school
athletics team. He could have been hating me.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
That's a good point in the locker room of and
a freshman when I was a senior.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yep, yep, we could have been on the same high
school team. But I do. I love this joke because
occasionally people kind of miss the joke and they're just like, hey, hey,
lay off you know Clay's you know, it's like it's
like Clay's anyway, you haven't been through the War of
three kids yet. Yeah, it will age you. They will
aige you.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I mean, the lack of sleep for about twenty straight
years or whatever it is, sixteen straight years of having kids.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Now that we're all grown up. You know, my mom,
who had four, she always says she she if she
could go back, she would have eight. And I'm always like, well,
is that because you've Is that because the four have
all grown up and you're now in grandma mode?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So it's I would, you know, I would keep having them.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
We had Katie, who you've met, has been with us
for almost nine years now, and initially she was in
charge of taking care of all the kids. Buck Now
she's kind of in charge of me, and she's having
a baby, and so I feel like we're having another baby.
I'm into the household, and I'm excited about it because
I would keep having So I'm encouraging you and Carrie,
however many kids you want?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Add one? Yeah, And one day I'll tell stories of
I actually had an English nanny growing up, and she
would walk around and she would just uh. She she
would get fearious. She'd be like, did you take m keys?
Did did I? Did we take her keys? And she
had always had them on a little necklace around her neck,
but we could never get her. She always thought I
was taking I was like five, like, I didn't take
your keys, lady, I swear anyway, she was very Misus Doubtfire. Oh, actually,
(34:30):
Missus Doubtfire. We look at this differently now, the whole
Missus Doubtfire situation one of the biggest movies of the nineties. Actually,
you know that I.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Would be totally unacceptable, although I made that argument, and
then people said, you know, Medea might be the one
that protects Missus doubtfire because.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
If you cancel miss doutfire, if you cancel media. So
how we got on this other other than other than
the silly stuff it was. I remember I grew up
and that the shows that had the most impact on
my on my formative you know, teenage years, would be
Beverly Hills nine o two and oh maybe this explains
a lot of my worldview and saved by the Bell right.
(35:08):
So Beverly Hills nine o two and OO would say
both both said in California, which is interesting to me now.
Would always say, I grew up thinking California was the
promised land that I would move to somewhere when I
was older. But for a lot of people, it was
Dawson's Creek, which I watched a little bit of. And
this is what got me thinking about this. How many
of you remember the show Dawson's Creek, Guys and Girls.
I liked it to forty five and under. I think,
(35:30):
would would you know, be probably Dawson's Creek, you know
from I don't know what the age limit would be.
A point being James Vanderbeek, who played Dawson in Dawson's Creek.
I haven't I haven't seen him in public in a
very long time. I don't know what the guy's been
up to. You know, he hopefully he's doing great, you know,
selling insurance out in Scottsdale or something. I have no
(35:51):
idea what he's doing. But here he is pointing out
that the DNC is just in this all out shutdown mode.
He says, no debate democracy, And that's an interesting point.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Play A cannot get over the fact that the Democratic
National Committee is saying they will not be a debate.
They assigned the nominee for president. Are you kidding me?
There's no debate. There's no debate over an eighty year
old man, if he lives, would be the oldest sitting
president in the history of the country. And if he
(36:24):
doesn't live as a vice president who's approval rating is
worse than his, how do we have a government? How
do we have a democracy? If we're letting a small,
little back room of people make all the important decisions
for us, that's not a democracy. And it doesn't work
because y'all have been wrong about a lot these last
(36:44):
couple of years in that back room. No debate nor democracy.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Dawson's Creek for the wind, Clay Boyden's something out here.
Democrats aren't allowed to even talk about the fact that
Biden's so old it's preposterous.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I talked about this on Fox News, and I never
would have believed that this would be the case that
we would be reacting to. James Vanderbeek aka Dawson Leary
aka Varsity Blues Johnny Moxon one of the all time
great high school sports movies high school movies maybe period.
(37:16):
He was phenomenal in that as a Texas high school
quarterback legend. But buck he also said Biden's got dementia
as a part of this, and it's fascinating to me
that Dawson Leary James Vanderbeek is more insightful on the
DNC process than anyone on MSNBC or CNN has been
(37:41):
so far throughout the primary season.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Isn't basic honesty a fascinating thing when it's getting swept
away for so long? There's not a single Democrat who
could make a case that Joe Biden is not beyond
the senior moments that would raise questions about this, not
a single one. Yeah, and yet they all go along
with this. It really does feel like a mass formation
(38:05):
or mass formation psychosis. It feels like everybody on the
Democrat side has to go along with this craziness that
they don't believe in. And then that brings me to this.
I got it. Look, I gotta say another friend, you know,
we talked about Kelly before, another friend of the show,
Bill O'Reilly right. I remember watching you know, back back,
god back when I was in college, and afterwards watching
Bill at eight pm on Fox for many years. Talented broadcaster,
(38:30):
you know, and he's been on the show a few
times talking about his books, and you will recall he
got one thing totally right. He came on and he said, well,
Buck is a brilliant guy and a genius, but he's
and then he got the thing wrong, and he said,
but he's totally wrong about Biden being the nominee. Now
Biden has announced, So in my head, I was thinking, look,
I don't want to be that guy that says, haha,
I got this right. But I was thinking to myself, well, haha, Bill,
(38:52):
I got this one right. I want to be clear, Bill,
we got him here. Bill is still sticking with the
prediction of Buddy and I I admire the gumption. Is
that the right word? That's yes, that's the right one.
I admire the gumption here. He still believes at this
point Biden will not be the nominee. Play nine.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
The problems that we are facing now, particularly with this
axis of evil, are very, very worrisome. And the open border,
as I said, oh boy, it's going to lead to
this real, real trouble. And he does not have control,
Biden of the federal branch of government, the executive branch,
he just doesn't have control of it.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
He will not run again.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
I sticking by my prediction he will not be the
Democratic nominee.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Can what's what's your sense of this one?
Speaker 2 (39:45):
So I I understand the argument of why Biden is
not going to be the nominee here's the challenge. Maybe
we need to get Bill O'Riley on to one.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
But do it. But do you do you agree or disagree?
Do you think he is or is not at this point?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So if he's not going to be the nominee, they
have to force him out by September. And the reason
why I say that is if they wait till after September,
Kamala Harris is going to be the nominee. And there
is a zero percent chance that they want Kamala as
the nominee. So the logic behind his opinion is Biden
(40:19):
is too weak of an incumbent to be the standard
bearer for Democrats in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I think Biden is going to be the weakest incumbent
president in any of our.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Lives, and I think he should lose. Not that he will,
but I think he should lose.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
The problem is the protection on some level for Biden
here buck is Kamala would be an even worse candidate.
So if they are going to try to force Biden out,
they have to open up the primary process and allow
an actual race to take place.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So I I think.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's the logical choice Buck, I really do, but I
think it has to happen by Labor Day.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
All right, Well, I'm just I'm doubling down on Biden's
gonna be the nominee. Everybody just to.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Be I were betting right now I would go Biden nominee. Remember,
like maybe a month ago, I felt like the long
knives were coming out when the Washington Post had their
story about how awful, and then nothing really came of it.
It kind of has faded. If they're going to force
him out, and it would be a force out, it
has to happen, by the way, to be clear, a
(41:26):
true and sudden health issue of some kind. Yeah, that's
not I mean that could still, but that can happen
to literally any president. That could happen to anyone who
is running for office. I mean, you know, God forbid,
but you never know. But in terms of the political
decision making and calculus at this point, I think I
think it has to be.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
But you know what we you know we should do.
Why don't we get Bill back on?
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Bill?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
We should have it back on because it has to happen.
You agree with me.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
If it's going to happen non health related, it would
have to happen in the next ninety days or so,
because they would not want Kamala if it happens next year,
Kamala is the nominee, right they we don't want Kamala
as a nominee, so the force out is to get
a better choice. Kamala is a worse choice than Biden.
Can I tell you something I think.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Some people think is crazy and light up those lines
with this debate we're having here eight hundred two two
two eight a two. I think Democrats think they have
a better chance of getting Kamala elected president than they
would avenusom. I really believe that. I think they think
that she would be better. Let's let's we let that
maritate a little bit. I could explain why, but we
come back. Yeah, we'll come back to it in a moment.
(42:30):
But you know, the other week, I got to host
an in depth interview online with an extraordinary market analyst
with a name that I know well, Nason Sexton. He's
also my dad. Look, I'm very proud of his career,
including what he's focusing on now what she calls the
Great Disruption of twenty twenty three. In the past on TV,
Dad predicted the stock market crash of nineteen eighty seven,
(42:51):
the top of the market before the COVID crash. He's
had many major calls that have been verified that are
in print. What he sees coming now is unlike anything
we've ever scene, and you can get in on it now,
so you know how to prepare and what to do.
In this interview, he revealed the exact date, in fact,
this July, when he thinks things turn ugly in the markets.
We've already already been seeing the signs of disruption. Banks
(43:13):
going under, real estate losing its value at a rapid
rate inflation, causing sticker shock at the grocery store. My
dad Mason will tell you why he thinks most analysts
are wrong about a coming lost decade in stocks. Why
what's coming could be much worse than many ways. This
is his first major prediction for the public in thirty years.
If you missed it, the video is still up you
(43:33):
can watch it. Go check it out. The replay is
available now at Disruption twenty twenty three dot com. That's
Disruption twenty twenty three dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Peek out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with
Clay and Buck podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
A new episode every Sunday.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Find it on the iHeart app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Welcome back. We've got our friend Ian Miller with us now.
He is a writer for out Kick and author of
a new book, Illusion of Control, COVID nineteen and the
Collapse of Expertise. Ian, Welcome back to the show. I'm
assuming this is not a lot of Fauci is brilliant
and right analysis. Tell us what you get into in
(44:15):
this book.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
That's that's a good assumption. Yeah, it is kind of
going in detail on Fauci and the CEC and a
lot of other experts about how they kind of mismanaged
virtually everything about the COVID pandemic and our response to it,
and the mistakes they made, and more importantly, you know,
pointing out how little accountability there was. You know, they've
never took any responsibility for the mistakes that they've made,
(44:38):
they've never acknowledged half of them, and a lot of cases
they're still kind of maintaining that a lot of these
policies were actually effective. And so the case of the
book has kind of make this comprehensive overview of why
that's wrong, how they got it wrong, and why we
need to hold them accountable going forward.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
So Ian, when you see arguments being made that Florida
COVID poorly, that the rate of death in Florida was bad,
this is actually the argument that Trump is now trotting
out against Ron DeSantis. You are a data guy, You
spent and you lived in California, so you had to
deal with all the craziness of Gavin Newsom. You shared
(45:17):
incredible charts over the years. How did Florida do relative
to the rest of the country.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
What sort of.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Benefit if any, did say New York and California gained
from shutting down? What is the raw data intelligently analyzed tell.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Us right, well, and it's the exact opposite conclusion of
what kind of the messaging has been. If you look
at age digested code of mortality, because obviously Florida has
a much more elderly population compared to New York and California,
Florida outperformed the rest of the country that had a
much lower age adjusted COVID death rate than New York.
Despite New Yors' lockdowns, had lower excess mortality than California,
(45:59):
meaning fewer people then over the expected normal died in
Florida and in California and Florida benefited because they kept
their economy open as much as possible and kept kids
in schools, and which is going to have huge positive
effects down the road. You know, California and New York
have both been losing huge numbers of people in New
York City lost almost half a million people in just
a couple of years. That's a huge that's a huge difference,
(46:20):
with a lot of them going to Florida because it
was open and because they could get their kids in schools. So,
you know, trying to revision his history of trying to
stay Florida didn't perform well, is just not backed up
by data at all.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Ian, is there any sign that you're seeing And as
part of the research for the book, did you find
meaningful maya culpas from major medical institutions from you know,
the science as it was known for a while, not
just from the faucies, the CDCs, the NIHS, et cetera,
(46:54):
but you know, major hospital systems, the so called consensus
about so much of this stuff that was shockingly wrong.
I mean, the data, as I've been talking about on
this show, the data on for example, the frenzy to
put everybody on ventilators shows they were killing people by
putting them on ventilators. There were a lot of people
(47:15):
who would have survived their first bout with COVID who
were put on a ventilator far too quickly because there
was a panic in the medical community. Is anyone saying
we're sorry, we're we got this wrong, or does everyone
just move past it in the medical field at these
big institutions and act like it didn't happen.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Definitely the latter. Pretty much everybody is just trying to
move on and kind of quietly dismiss everything and not
really take any responsibility or acknowledge that they were wrong
about this stuff. Like you said, ventilators are a huge issue,
you know, masking people forever and masking toddlers, And the
CDC director came out there not long ago and said,
you know, our guidance doesn't really change over time. We're
(47:53):
going to continue to recommend masking kids essentially forever. Based
off of community transmission. I think, you know, obviously public
health agencies, but in particular a lot of these hospital
systems that were very openly promoting all the vaccine passports
and things like that, they just kind of want to
move past it because I think everybody could see at
this point, or of people that have been paying attention,
that they were wrong. The data shows that were wrong.
(48:16):
Everybody got COVID anyway, despite what all these experts were
saying to do, and so I think they feel like
it would undermine their credibility if they admitted that they
got this wrong and that they made mistakes. So instead
they're just kind of trying to move past it. If anything,
there's been I mean a shocking lack of accountability as
opposed to kind of taking responsibility for their actions.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Ian now that we look back where three years removed.
I think you wrote an article at OutKick about the
fact that only now is air travel getting back to
where it was when we shut down in March of
twenty twenty, which is really kind of crazy to think
about the three years. What country did actually handle COVID?
(48:59):
The best is there now that we've got three years
of data and we can look and analyze all the
different perspectives. We talk about states, but is it Sweden?
Like if you could point to a European or United
States or you know, the North American country, is there
a country that you think handled COVID really well and
(49:19):
if so, who and what should we have done in retrospect?
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Yeah, it has to be Sweden. I mean they did
the most to keep their economy moving. They didn't close
schools if at all, or for very limited age groups.
We are very limited amount of time. You know, there
were no mask manmates generally for the whole country basically,
And what's so frustrating is that they essentially followed all
of these pre COVID pandemic planning documents that all these
(49:44):
public health agencies spent years developing. They followed it. Everybody
else panicked and threw it out, and you know, I
write a chapter about it in the book. But you
can compare Sweden to all these other countries, to European countries,
and basically in every comparison they come out looking really well,
where you know, they have lower excess mortality rates or
they overperformed compared to other countries that have some more populations.
(50:04):
And they did it all without disrupting their population as
much as we did in the United States and most
states especially or places like Australia or New Zealand that
went the entire opposite direction. And if you look Australia
has now had you know, huge excess mortality rates where
over the last year and a half. So I think
there's a there's a clear winner here in Sweden. And
it's not that they did anything particularly special. It's just
(50:26):
that they actually followed the guidance that everybody had set
out before COVID. For some reason, our experts just completely
panicked and throw it out, and they stayed strong.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
The book is Illusion of Control COVID nineteen and the
Collapse of Expertise. Ian Miller, thanks for being with.
Speaker 4 (50:42):
Us, well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
You know, as a writer, Ian is a perfect example
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and Fuck It.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Listen to the program live, catch up on any part
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Use your CNB twenty four to seven subscription to get
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