March 31, 2023 • 37 mins
Former federal prosecutor Andy McCarthy joins Clay and Buck with his take on the Trump indictment, what comes next, how long it will take to go to trial and the possibility Trump could get convicted and elected president. Clay and Buck take calls and read VIP emails on the political ramifications of the indictment: Does it help or hurt Trump?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hour or two of Clan Buck starts right now, and
our friend Andy McCarthy is with us with his latest
thoughts on the crazy world we live in now of
the Democrats celebrating the indictment of Donald Trump by Alvin
Bragg in New York City, and we have Andy, of course,
(00:20):
is a Fox News contributor. He is a former prosecutor
from the Southern District of New York Or for twenty
years there. Andy, great to have you back on, sir.
Let's just start with your We just want the Andy
reaction to Wow, they actually are doing it. They're doing it.
You know, I really they told me Buck, because I
(00:42):
thought when they said the grand jury was gone for
a month, it looked like he was folding. And obviously
same here by the way, we just assumed it's that
seems like a weird head fake. Well, you know, I
think what they wanted to do was get all twenty
three grand juries there to vote on it, because they
probably it's not the kind of case you would want
to vote with less than close to the full amount.
(01:05):
They probably wanted to get them there with as little
fans there as possible, so they could get in and
do what they thought they needed to do, and so
it worked it with good head take all, right, what now,
you've you've been involved in high profile cases in New
York City for a long time, granted on the federal side,
this is the state side. What would you anticipate happening now?
(01:26):
For everybody out there that is listening and trying to think, uh,
you know, procedurally where we are headed, what the time
frame will look like? What next? Well, I think you know, obviously,
we have the circus in town on Tuesday, which is
a pretty pro form you know, normal event in a
(01:46):
criminal case. They're going to bring the former president and
he's not going to be arrested. He'll be brought in
in the custody of the Secret Service to the DA's
office and ONEPD will be there. The DA's office, for
those who don't know, in Lower Manhattan, is connected to
the courthouse during the same complex. So he'll be processed,
(02:10):
which means fingerprints and mug shots, and then he'll be
brought before a judge who will take a plea. He'll
plead not guilty and then as as The New York
Post is reporting that Trump thinks that the judge is
already selected and that it's the judge who had the
case involving his financial guy at the trunk organization, Alan Weisfelberg,
(02:34):
a judge by the name of Merchahn, will have to
see if that's true or not. But what will happen
once two day is done is if Trump's not going
to have bail conditions. This is a non violent crime,
so he'll be released on his own cognizance, and then
the case will be in the hands of the judge
(02:55):
who will be responsible for thereafter. And there's going to
be a slow of motion practice because this is the
unusual case where there's probably a lot of reasons, very
culortable reasons to move to dismiss the case. So it's
a congested court, which means even normal cases don't get
tried for a very very long time. And here the
(03:18):
complications attendant to it are immense. And Guys, that's even
assuming for the sake of argument that Noah the prosecute
or files charges, which we I don't think can safely assume.
So Andy, can I ask on the let's assume that
it doesn't if it has that judge who I think
we could say is an anti Trump judge, Our guy
(03:38):
who's not inclined. This is not the judge of Trump
would want there. The Trump people have already said Trump's
lawyer I saw last night there's a couple of lawyers.
One of them said Trump will absolutely not take a
plea deal because I would assume in a non violent,
low level campaign finance issue, right usually this would be
something that probably someone pays a fine riety, you know,
(04:00):
and they'd offer that, oh, you pay a fine, plead guilty.
But if Trump says no, there is there a real
possitive Could this have any jail time attached to it?
I mean, could someone actually go to I think, But
in principle, the answer to that question would have to
be yes, because what he's trying to do is inflace
(04:20):
the missemeter into a felony. Right now, as a as
a matter of law, I don't think he can do it.
So I think he's bragg is going to lose on that.
But let's just say, for argument's sake that he's indicted
him for felonies, and he could get convicted of felonies.
Each of those felonies is a four year town And
(04:40):
that's a long winded way of bringing me to my
next point, which I don't think has gotten enough attention,
but um is something we should keep our eye on,
and that is apparently this is a thirty four count indictment,
and it's a it's a kind of a typical prosecutorial
of abuse, which in Justice Department in federal cases has
(05:03):
guidance against. Gran's telling federal prosecutors not to do this,
that if you don't have a serious crime, what you
try to do is camouflage with quality or quantity what
you don't have in quality. You take something that shouldn't
even be indicted at all, and you turn it into
thirty four felony counts, and you hope to signal to
(05:24):
the jury that, gee, the government wouldn't have charged thirty
four counts unless this was a really serious bad So
any this is like the count of countless counts, right,
so you know, look, any prosecutor can do this kind
of thing. Like you know, if if we three died,
were you know, sitting around looking at our stolen property,
(05:45):
and we were passing it back and forth to each other.
In theory, each time we passed it back and forth,
I could charge a transfer of stolen property acount. Right,
A felon account, but in reality we're just sitting there
with stolen property, right and on account would be plenty,
And good prosecutors, ethical prosecutors who have serious passes, don't
(06:06):
bring a million towns because you don't need a million pouns.
The Justice Department guidance says that in any but the
most serious tenses, you shouldn't have more than fifteen towns
in an indictment. So to turn this thing, which the
federal authority who had a jurisdiction over it, the Justice Department,
in the Federal Election Commission, they didn't pursue Trump on this,
(06:29):
to turn it not only into a felony, but say felony,
but thirty four felonies by a district attorney who doesn't
have jurisdiction over it is mind bodeling it. Okay, that
goes into what you just kind of hinted at. We're
talking to Annie McCarthy, who is a formal former federal
prosecutor in New York City. Okay, so this case may
(06:53):
eventually go to a jury, there may be a resolution.
I would presume, and you correct me if I'm wrong,
that this would theoretically happen sometime in twenty twenty four,
legitimately potentially in the middle of a presidential election year,
which is crazy right by itself, But I believe that
there are And this is me putting my lawyer head on.
(07:16):
You're a far more skilled criminal lawyer than I am,
so I want your opinion on this. When I read
and analyze this, it seems to me there are clear
statute of limitations issues, Okay. And it also seems, and
you talked about this with us the last time you
were on that trying to peg in many ways a
state violation to federal election law violations is a very tenuous,
(07:41):
without precedent in many ways method of which President Trump
is being charged. I think that as we move up
in the appeals process and it becomes a question of
law for judges both in New York and maybe then
as it crosses over to higher level courts, theoretically this
go all the way the Supreme Court, somebody is going
(08:01):
to toss this out like the Supreme Court did. Buck
mentioned it earlier, the Bob McDonald charges that were convictions
were obtained for in Virginia. Do you think that's likely?
And if it is, this is a multi year legal
process where I mean Trump could theoretically be president of
the United States before this thing has ever resolved. Yeah,
(08:26):
but I would say you're not only talking about multi years.
Your comparison to McDonald is a good one to make
this point. McDonald was a federal case, So you have
a straight line to the Supreme Court. Right, You get
your appeal to the Circuit Court of Appeals, and then
you automatically go up to the Supreme Court. In the
(08:46):
state system, Trump would have to go all the way
through the state process, the state court that he's in,
the appellate division to appeal it, the New York State
Court of Appeals, and then when his whole New York
thing is run, which takes years. Is if there's some
federal issue that impacted the case, the Supreme Court could
take it. And I say that as somebody who agrees
(09:07):
with you that there are multiple reasons where why. And
I don't want to put worth in your out here,
but I think it's likely that this thing, if the
judge is doing a job right, this thing will be
thrown out before it ever gets the trial. But what
I would caution people is once a case is in
the court, that is, once you've indicted the case and
(09:28):
it judges a sign the prosecutor loses any control over
the schedule. So a lot of this will have to
do with the proclivity of the judge and some of
them to be a little eccentric. Even if this is
the only case brought against Trump, even if the Fulton
County people do nothing in the special counter fool does nothing.
(09:50):
I don't see this case getting to trial, you said
twenty twenty four. I would say, yes, no earlier than that,
unless it gets thrown out before trial. Okay, building on that,
we simultaneously. Have you just mentioned the Fulton County case,
You've got now the New York City case. Also you
have the investigation going on into the Mara Lago classified
(10:12):
documents as well as January sixth, I floated this idea.
I'm curious what your expectation. This is the political as
much as it is the legal. More so probably that
I expect eventually for the Biden administration to come out
and adopt what I'm calling the Shaggy defense, which is saying,
for those of you who remember the song back in
the day, it wasn't me right that Biden can say, hey,
(10:35):
this is a state court, I'm not involved in this
at all, and that this could take Merrick Garland off
of having to bring any federal charges, because really what
Democrats want is Trump to face charges in some way,
and if he gets him maybe in Atlanta, and he's
got him in New York City, the federal aspect of this,
(10:56):
Biden could even say, Hey, I'm going to pardon Trump
and look like the good guy, but it wouldn't impact
whether those state courses could still be proceeding. Do you
buy into that idea, Yeah, I think it's entirely possible.
What cuts against it is that it looks right now
like the Special Cancel is stepping up his investigative activity,
(11:18):
you know, the pursuit of having Pence testifying, the grand jury,
the bringing. I guess what I'm saying, Andy, is Biden
could look like the good guy by saying there's clear
violations here, but I think it's bad for the country
for my Department of Justice to be charging Trump with crimes.
We're not going to do it, and then he still
gets the benefit of the state courts doing it while
(11:40):
also looking like a good guy. But I not But
any it sounds like you think that because I think
this that there may actually be federal charges coming to Yeah,
I think that, you know two things. To Clay's point,
I think there's no hurry on the federal side. Right
the yptional limitations on this stuff is not going to
(12:02):
run still earliest twenty twenty five, so they don't have
to plant their feet. Biden can't, I don't think, come
out and say I don't want my Justice Department getting
involved in this, because he's been a stickler from the
beginning of saying that the White House has nothing to
do with how the Justice Department is run. And because
of the jeopardy that the Biden family is in, he
(12:24):
can't afford to be taking the public position that he's
actually willing and dealing and controlling what the Justice Department does.
So I don't see him doing that, but I could
see him doing a silent version of it. Whereas like
the Justice Department has a lot of investigative activity like
they're doing now, but they don't actually charge anything. They
get all the benefit of the circus going on in
(12:46):
the safe proceedings, and in the meantime they can afford
to keep their powdered dry because they don't have to
charge Trump until twenty twenty five, the earliest andy in
your mind, just one more for you, then we got
to run to a break. Is there a realistic chance
that they put Donald Trump in his cell at some
point with all these different investigations in your mind? Or
are you worried that that's actually what they think is
(13:08):
going to happen. I don't unless he gets convicted of something, buck,
I don't see that. If he gets convicted, then it's
going to depend on what he gets convicted. If it's
this nonsense in New York, you know, I'm tempted to
say there's no way except you know, you guys mentioned
the accountant before A Weislberg is sitting in Rikers Island,
you know what. That's why. That's why to me it
(13:31):
has to be taken seriously, because his accountant, they got
him on the most kind of low level mickey mouse nonsense. Well,
but also he's got Supreme Court sorry, he's got Secret
Service protection. So I don't even know how you could
put him in you like, but what would happen if
Trump were elected president and simultaneously he was found guilty
of a state court charge. Could he be president of
(13:53):
the United States from a jail cell. I mean, I'm
just I legally, I'm just trying to even think through
the perfectations here, Andy, And I think what the Supreme
Court would say is if the Senate, if that, if
the Congress does not impeach and remove him, then what
the constitution sentence is, you have to be over thirty five,
a natural board United States citizen, and resident in the
(14:17):
country for fourteen years. If you meet those qualifications. The
American people, if they want to, if they want to
elect someone who's doing time in leaven Worth, there's nothing
the constitutions that they can so. I mean literally, he
could run the presidency from Rikers Island. Well, that remains
to be seen. I mean that to me, that would
be a good reason why. Um, you know you have
(14:37):
to start thinking about impeachment if we got to that point.
But you know, this is so unfriend. Anyone tells you
that they know how this is going to work out
with all the things we're now going to go through
that we've never gone through before. Who I mean, it's
like a league. That's the key, Andy, Like you're just
kind of throwing out random things that have never happened before.
I mean, this is it's wild because no one knows
where where it's gonna go. Andy, we need to do
(14:57):
like a like a two hour sit down podcast with
you about this, and we'll have to talk to your
people about it. We gotta run your break now. Everyone
look for Andy National Review and on Fox News Andie
McCarthy always illuminating, sir, Thanks for being with us. Thanks guys,
have a great weekend. You know, Clay, one quick thing
and I just keep for I just want to introduce
in the conversation because I've been meaning to say this.
(15:20):
The reason they're one of the reasons they're doing this
charge too, why this is the first one, because it's
they were trying to humiliate Trump. It's about the nature
of the charge too. The Democrats really get excited about that.
They really want to talk about porn stars and payoffs,
and they want to make it as this is much
more personal than the Georgia election issue, right, This is
(15:41):
much more personal. So it just gives you a sense
of the mindset they're really doing it, try to humiliate
the guy. It's grotesque, all right. It pays to prepare
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The Voices of Sanity in an Insane World Clay Travis
sad Buck Sexton, quick turn here because we just had
(17:09):
such an interesting conversation with Andy McCarthy. We're gonna take
more of your calls when we come back for the
rest of the show again. Benjamin Hall going to join
us in the third hour. He was horribly injured in Ukraine.
Fox News reporter. I think you will enjoy that conversation
as we finish off the show on Friday. But I
want your calls here. Eight hundred two eight two two
(17:29):
eight eight two. We've discussed the indictment. What is the
political ramification of that indictment? Does it help or hurt Trump?
That is I think the most interesting aspect of this
going forward. Let's discuss that. Good calls, good interaction. Both
fucking myself will be sharing our opinions on how exactly
(17:50):
that all breaks down. We will discuss with you when
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two thirty two sixty nine sleeve Travis and Buck Sexton
(18:58):
on the front lines of Trues. You guys are all
fired up obviously we're in unprecedented times. What the Democrats
have done is you know, you you have to be
careful with the words here. I was gonna say, you know, shocking,
(19:19):
and but we've known they were completely unethical. We've known
that they were planning to do something like this, So
in some sense, I guess we were prepared, even though
we realize how bad this is for the country. It's
it's it's just it's it's crazy. It's crazy. I try
to think of other words that I could say in
the radio without getting in trouble. Let's get to some
of your calls. All see your emails. By the way,
(19:41):
Clayan Buck vi IP go to Clonbuck dot com. Please
become a VIP subscriber. You can emails directly. It's kind
of like the Bat phone, but it's the Clay and
Buck well, but it's an email box, so that doesn't
really work. So it's the bat email box, which doesn't
make any sense. So I'm just gonna step away from
that one. Let's get U in Houston, Texas. Todd, You've
(20:01):
got some thoughts on the politics of this indictment. What's
going on? Yeah, good afternoon, guys. I don't think that
that's You're right on the Democrats not warning him to run.
I think they're scared of him to run. We need
to remember that President Trump only lost by forty thousand
votes and that's between you know, the states of Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin,
(20:22):
and Michigan. And uh, you know, giveing Arizona, Arizona, I think, Andy,
can I can I give you? By the way, I
am by no means saying that your theory or your
ideas is incorrect. You may may very well be totally
spot on. What do you think though about that was
when he was an incumbent. Now he's running as a challenger.
Do you think that matters a lot? No, I don't.
(20:45):
I think he'll be strong. And you guys even have
reference recently Luncoln's success in Virginia. You know that with
that state maybe being in play, and I think a
lot of those that you said would stay at home
the last time, and what's going on now? And on
top of can I say something at Todd that I
think I think it is in line with your theory also,
(21:06):
or rather would add to your sense of this because
by the way, I don't pretend to know and no
one knows, right, but your your sensibility here, or rather
your analysis, I think is very astute. It was COVID.
I mean, we had an election, you know, forget about
everything else and the and the ballot, the COVID year.
It was people weren't themselves. The whole psychology of the
(21:27):
country was turned upside down. So this would be just
based on that alone, a very different election. Todd's asking
the most important question from a political perspective, right, not
the legal, not the precedent going forward. Let's presume that
we're squaring up and it's going to be Trump versus
Biden rematch twenty twenty four. Okay. The question that I
(21:48):
think is the most paramount here is eighty one million
people according to the tally. I don't want to get
all the emails about oh they okay, eighty one million
people showed up and voted for Joe Biden according to
the tally. In twenty around seventy five million showed up
and voted for Donald Trump in twenty twenty. We see
(22:10):
rematches all the time in sports, right, outcome can be different,
happens all the time. My question, and I don't claim
to know the answer. I don't think anyone can know
the answer. Of the eighty one million votes that Joe
Biden got in twenty twenty, how many of those people
would show up and vote for Joe Biden again in
twenty twenty four. Of the seventy five million that Trump got,
(22:32):
how many of those seventy five million would show up
and vote for Trump again? And significantly, how many, let's
say there's one hundred and fifty six million votes that
came in, how many of those people out there who
voted in twenty twenty would change their opinion? The callers right,
twenty thousand vote opinion change right. But Wisconsin, Arizona, and Georgia,
(22:55):
if you change twenty thousand votes in those three states,
donald Trump wins the election. That's how close it was
would have been two sixty nine. Two sixty nine House
of Representatives would have decided who the president was in
twenty twenty. So, to me, the question you have to
ask is, how does the calculus change in twenty twenty
(23:16):
four if Trump's the guy? And remember Trump lost. Trump
lost because suburban voters. These are the same voters that
didn't vote for herschel Walker. Outside of Atlanta, the voters
that did not vote for Donald Trump outside of Milwaukee.
Voters that did not vote for Donald Trump actually in
the Phoenix area. Are those people more likely to change
(23:40):
their opinions because I think most of the states would
stay the same forty four or so of them. So
we also got an email in from a VIP who
has a different take on this than Todd Susan writes
in the constant beating of the drums last night that
the GOP now has no choice but to unite behind
Trump as the only candidate. Is offensive. I want Alvin
(24:02):
Bragg to pick my candidate like I want a hole
in my head. Trump might bring out the worst in
these hacks, but he was the one who knew Stormy Daniels.
He was the one who hired Michael Cohen. He is
the one that tried to rely upon silly voting machine attorneys.
His bad judgment never ends and is very tiresome. If
the Democrats stick with Trump as the GOP candidate, I
will be very bummed. Is that the goal or what
(24:25):
Biden is quiet? Because he could be right behind them,
right behind him thoughts, Let me just say this is there.
We have diverse perspectives on the issue. Of the GOP's
future among this audience and before anyone, I swear that
is an email from a VIP Okay, this is actually
coming from the listen. I think the question that we
got from our caller in Houston, and you say that
(24:46):
with Susan, who you're reading a VIP email from. Yeah,
these are very astute answers and questions that are being asked.
And here's the reality. No one knows. Right. So if
you're out there right now like, oh, this guarantees that
X is going to happen, I would just say you
are to be fair crazy because we're nine months away
(25:06):
still from the first votes in the primary season being cast.
We don't know how this is going to play out
in the short term. Buck, I don't think there's any doubt.
I think this benefits Trump. I just put up a
poll question and I said, does this make you more
or less likely to vote for Donald Trump? Right? What
just happened? More or less likely? Thousands of you have
(25:27):
voted already, and seventy eight percent are saying makes me
more likely to vote for Donald Trump. Twenty two percent
are saying less likely. Okay, so how is that going
to play over time? And to what extent. How does
Trump handle this buck? I think there's now reports that
he's going to be arraigned at two fifteen on Tuesday,
(25:51):
that is going to be a zoo in New York City.
He then has the opportunity to come out and speak
on the courthouse steps and what will probably be one
of the most watched comments slash moments of Donald Trump's
political career. What does he say? Last night? I said
the message should be not that he's a victim, in
(26:11):
my opinion, but that this is everything wrong with America
and that if you wanted to continue to be a
banana Republic, you have to support Joe Biden. Or is
he gonna come out, he's gonna take shots at the scantis.
Is he gonna say awful victim? Yeah? Yeah. I would
say that the fact that they went with this charge
(26:32):
at this stage, after all the stuff that we have heard,
it would be one thing. If I don't know, they
caught Trump taking money from Chinese and Ukrainian business interest
to the tune of millions of dollars that he didn't
pay taxes on and was clearly trying to hide through LLC's.
You can't really defend that right, unless you're Joe Biden's son,
(26:53):
in which case it doesn't matter. But I'm just saying,
if they had him on something where we all would
have to say, you know, oh, I mean, you did
really break the law and it does kind of matter,
that would be an entirely different conversation. They've gotten him
on something that we can sit here in good faith
and say, Annie McCarthy Klanaro just saying this off air too.
(27:14):
Always a straight knows the stuff backwards and fords, but
it's always a straight shooter too. He doesn't say what
he thinks people want to hear on one side of
the other. And he's sitting here, He's like, this is crazy.
This is just crazy that they're bringing this indictment. So
that's part of why I think it's not just they're
indicting a former president. And I think this is a
really important separation to to establish they are indicting a
(27:36):
former president in a way or or on a basis
that should get the prosecutor disbarred. That's how egregious and
flimsy and absurd and politicize this is. And so it
might get him the governor's office. Alb And this this
is what we told you for I haven't heard a
(27:57):
lot of people talk about this either. It can be
nationally a poor decision for Alvin Bragg to bring these
charges for purposes of his state political standing. He has
elevated himself to a level that every district attorney in
America is jealousy of Democrat for anyone, and our our
(28:18):
wr audience certainly knows this backwards and forwards, although a
lot of them who live in some of the outlying
suburbs and Staten Island deal with this a whole lot less.
But for anyone who doesn't know what it's like that
for people living in a place like New York, imagine
you're in a room with you know, with ten people,
and nine of them think that double masking alone outside
(28:39):
because Fauci says so is a great idea. They think that,
you know, Kamala Harris is a great leader of the
future and we should all unite behind her. They think,
you know, go down the list. Nine of the ten
people in the room with you think that that is
New York City. That's the way it is in some
of these Democrats strongholds. So just there is no voice
of reason. That's why that's why I'm trying to just
(29:01):
establish this for everybody. There's no one really saying, hey,
hold on a second, we have to get a handle
on things. So anyway, we'll take more calls, more emails,
because this is it looks it's important that all of
you have your voices heard by your fellow conservatives and
fellow patriots all across the country. So we'll bring more
of that in. Then we have coming up. Obviously, we're
(29:22):
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out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with Clay
and Buck podcasts. A new episode every Sunday. Find it
on the iHeart Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
(30:47):
I'm gonna run through some of your calls here to
close out in the second hour of the program. Obviously,
we are reacting to the indictment. First time in the
two hundred and forty year history of the United States
that a former president or president when running for office
like this, has been indicted. Gretchen in Georgia, what do
you think? Well, what I think is whatever they try
(31:09):
to do to Trump, Trumpsters are going to vote for Trump.
I know a lot of small town Democrats that voted
for Biden don't want him to run again. They think
he's too old and too incompetent, and they don't like Trump.
So what I think is going to happen is those
Democrats won't vote at all. It could be a plus
for Trump. Yes, it's a great that's look. The reality is, Buck,
(31:30):
we don't know. But the question I'm asking, which I
think you all have to consider as we move through
all of this crazy process, is eighty one million people
voted for Joe Biden in twenty twenty And I'm not
going to have an argument about like, oh, well they
changed like eighty one million people. Okay, As one of
our callers pointed out, twenty thousand voters change their minds
(31:51):
in Wisconsin, in Georgia, in Arizona, Trump wins, right, how
many of those eighty one million will show up for
Biden and how many of the seventy five million will
show up for Trump? What would change in twenty twenty four?
That's a theory, Gretchen says, some of those people who
voted against Trump and Buck, I think your point on Hey,
it was COVID right. People were fearful. They thought that
(32:13):
Biden was going to return normalcy. He hasn't done it.
My biggest fear about the rerun in twenty twenty four.
If we get it, it should be a referendum on
Biden if Trump runs, but it won't be always about
But it won't be this is the problem. Well, you
and I both know that Biden is irrelevant. He's a
stand in for Democrat. He is you know, he is
(32:35):
the supermarket on the shelf, store brand version of a Democrat.
It just doesn't matter. No one votes for him, they
vote against Tron, or they just vote Democrat because that's
who they are. So this is why we oft understand.
It's it's a question of machinery. And I want everyone
to be ready for this too. Let's assume it is
(32:57):
going to be Trump this time around. If it's Trump
is the nominee, there needs to be a willingness to say, hey,
don't hire idiots, don't hire people who are morons. People
have to be willing to say that to him. I'm
just you know, this is the part of it, and
say it like a coach whose heart and soul is
with the team that he wants to win. Because there
(33:19):
were a lot I went through this a lot of
people in twenty twenty. Oh you know, don't he knows
exactly what he's doing, don't. His campaign one of his
campaign manager at some point was arrested shirtless on the
front lawn in Florida or whatever. You remember that. Oh yeah, yeah, Okay,
he did know exactly what he's doing. We're here to
help because we want him to be the best version
(33:40):
of him so that he can save the country and
he can beat these lunatic communists. So that's one thing
I want to just throw down with right now. The
personnel side. The man. You love him, I love him.
He needs help on personnel full stop. So I just
want ever to get ready for that if if he is,
in fact, you know, the nominee. And look, even Andy said,
(34:01):
can I just put out there? I said, Andy, do
you think they might actually try to lock him up?
It wasn't. No, he's you know, it's not likely, but
it's not a zero chance if he takes this thing
all the way. Yeah, I don't think he's gonna go
away for a long time. But Clay, if you won't
take a plea bargain, it's a felony. Yeah, what do
they do. With a felon who won't take a plea bargain,
(34:21):
they lock them up if they're convicted. That's why I'm saying,
when you're in law school, Buck, the way you get
judged is you have final exams and your professors come
up with all sorts of crazy hypotheticals. That's why I
was saying, is there a hypothetical universe where Trump could
(34:42):
be convicted of New York state law, sentenced to prison,
and simultaneously after that elected as United States President, and
he is the president from a New York City jail
or prison. We're getting a little far down the theory theory.
The question that I've been asking, which no one seems
(35:03):
to even think about, is how do you put someone
with Secret Service protection in jail? Congress would have to do
do it. Congress would have to probably take some action
to address it. I don't know how you can't take
away the Secret Service protection of Trump because somebody would
kill him in prison. Do you have any doubt about Like,
the whole thing is crazy, but you're not gonna have
(35:25):
to it. I can't believe we've been talking about this.
They would clearly put him in some sort of administrative
segregation where he'd be held. But look, he's not going
I don't think he's going to prison for any of
This is when we say he may he may be
found guilty. Understand, we know he didn't do anything. We
know this whole thing is a farce, but they may
see it through. This is why the New York judges
(35:48):
need to toss out this indictment because legally it isn't supportable.
And again I think a jury would convict him. Kevin
and Cincinnati has a really good question, and I'm gonna
be honest with you, Kevin, I don't know the answer,
but float your question. This goes back to what you
guys were talking about before with the whole breaking of
(36:08):
the damn analogy. If he does end up getting indicted
in Georgia, can Brian Kemp pardon him? Yes, fantastic for
state law violations. Would the governor of Georgia be able
to pardon Trump? And wouldn't that be interesting? Wouldn't that
be quite a turn about? Brian Kemp could step in,
and by the way, I think he I think he should.
(36:29):
Yeah in Remember some people are like, oh, Trump can
pardon himself, which is a crazy legal theory the president. Well,
also only if it's federal charges, right, You can't pardon
someone for state charges, which is why I'm saying Biden
can throw up his hands and be like, I'm not
involved in New York City or Georgia, but the governor
of Georgia is Brian Kemp, who Trump has been tuting
(36:51):
with for years now. Like, there's so again, this is
such a crazy spot. We'll break it down more for
you when we're returned playing Bucket Play Travis and Buck
Sexton on the front lines of truth.
Hour or two of Clan Buck starts right now, and
our friend Andy McCarthy is with us with his latest
thoughts on the crazy world we live in now of
the Democrats celebrating the indictment of Donald Trump by Alvin
Bragg in New York City, and we have Andy, of course,
(00:20):
is a Fox News contributor. He is a former prosecutor
from the Southern District of New York Or for twenty
years there. Andy, great to have you back on, sir.
Let's just start with your We just want the Andy
reaction to Wow, they actually are doing it. They're doing it.
You know, I really they told me Buck, because I
(00:42):
thought when they said the grand jury was gone for
a month, it looked like he was folding. And obviously
same here by the way, we just assumed it's that
seems like a weird head fake. Well, you know, I
think what they wanted to do was get all twenty
three grand juries there to vote on it, because they
probably it's not the kind of case you would want
to vote with less than close to the full amount.
(01:05):
They probably wanted to get them there with as little
fans there as possible, so they could get in and
do what they thought they needed to do, and so
it worked it with good head take all, right, what now,
you've you've been involved in high profile cases in New
York City for a long time, granted on the federal side,
this is the state side. What would you anticipate happening now?
(01:26):
For everybody out there that is listening and trying to think, uh,
you know, procedurally where we are headed, what the time
frame will look like? What next? Well, I think you know, obviously,
we have the circus in town on Tuesday, which is
a pretty pro form you know, normal event in a
(01:46):
criminal case. They're going to bring the former president and
he's not going to be arrested. He'll be brought in
in the custody of the Secret Service to the DA's
office and ONEPD will be there. The DA's office, for
those who don't know, in Lower Manhattan, is connected to
the courthouse during the same complex. So he'll be processed,
(02:10):
which means fingerprints and mug shots, and then he'll be
brought before a judge who will take a plea. He'll
plead not guilty and then as as The New York
Post is reporting that Trump thinks that the judge is
already selected and that it's the judge who had the
case involving his financial guy at the trunk organization, Alan Weisfelberg,
(02:34):
a judge by the name of Merchahn, will have to
see if that's true or not. But what will happen
once two day is done is if Trump's not going
to have bail conditions. This is a non violent crime,
so he'll be released on his own cognizance, and then
the case will be in the hands of the judge
(02:55):
who will be responsible for thereafter. And there's going to
be a slow of motion practice because this is the
unusual case where there's probably a lot of reasons, very
culortable reasons to move to dismiss the case. So it's
a congested court, which means even normal cases don't get
tried for a very very long time. And here the
(03:18):
complications attendant to it are immense. And Guys, that's even
assuming for the sake of argument that Noah the prosecute
or files charges, which we I don't think can safely assume.
So Andy, can I ask on the let's assume that
it doesn't if it has that judge who I think
we could say is an anti Trump judge, Our guy
(03:38):
who's not inclined. This is not the judge of Trump
would want there. The Trump people have already said Trump's
lawyer I saw last night there's a couple of lawyers.
One of them said Trump will absolutely not take a
plea deal because I would assume in a non violent,
low level campaign finance issue, right usually this would be
something that probably someone pays a fine riety, you know,
(04:00):
and they'd offer that, oh, you pay a fine, plead guilty.
But if Trump says no, there is there a real
possitive Could this have any jail time attached to it?
I mean, could someone actually go to I think, But
in principle, the answer to that question would have to
be yes, because what he's trying to do is inflace
(04:20):
the missemeter into a felony. Right now, as a as
a matter of law, I don't think he can do it.
So I think he's bragg is going to lose on that.
But let's just say, for argument's sake that he's indicted
him for felonies, and he could get convicted of felonies.
Each of those felonies is a four year town And
(04:40):
that's a long winded way of bringing me to my
next point, which I don't think has gotten enough attention,
but um is something we should keep our eye on,
and that is apparently this is a thirty four count indictment,
and it's a it's a kind of a typical prosecutorial
of abuse, which in Justice Department in federal cases has
(05:03):
guidance against. Gran's telling federal prosecutors not to do this,
that if you don't have a serious crime, what you
try to do is camouflage with quality or quantity what
you don't have in quality. You take something that shouldn't
even be indicted at all, and you turn it into
thirty four felony counts, and you hope to signal to
(05:24):
the jury that, gee, the government wouldn't have charged thirty
four counts unless this was a really serious bad So
any this is like the count of countless counts, right,
so you know, look, any prosecutor can do this kind
of thing. Like you know, if if we three died,
were you know, sitting around looking at our stolen property,
(05:45):
and we were passing it back and forth to each other.
In theory, each time we passed it back and forth,
I could charge a transfer of stolen property acount. Right,
A felon account, but in reality we're just sitting there
with stolen property, right and on account would be plenty,
And good prosecutors, ethical prosecutors who have serious passes, don't
(06:06):
bring a million towns because you don't need a million pouns.
The Justice Department guidance says that in any but the
most serious tenses, you shouldn't have more than fifteen towns
in an indictment. So to turn this thing, which the
federal authority who had a jurisdiction over it, the Justice Department,
in the Federal Election Commission, they didn't pursue Trump on this,
(06:29):
to turn it not only into a felony, but say felony,
but thirty four felonies by a district attorney who doesn't
have jurisdiction over it is mind bodeling it. Okay, that
goes into what you just kind of hinted at. We're
talking to Annie McCarthy, who is a formal former federal
prosecutor in New York City. Okay, so this case may
(06:53):
eventually go to a jury, there may be a resolution.
I would presume, and you correct me if I'm wrong,
that this would theoretically happen sometime in twenty twenty four,
legitimately potentially in the middle of a presidential election year,
which is crazy right by itself, But I believe that
there are And this is me putting my lawyer head on.
(07:16):
You're a far more skilled criminal lawyer than I am,
so I want your opinion on this. When I read
and analyze this, it seems to me there are clear
statute of limitations issues, Okay. And it also seems, and
you talked about this with us the last time you
were on that trying to peg in many ways a
state violation to federal election law violations is a very tenuous,
(07:41):
without precedent in many ways method of which President Trump
is being charged. I think that as we move up
in the appeals process and it becomes a question of
law for judges both in New York and maybe then
as it crosses over to higher level courts, theoretically this
go all the way the Supreme Court, somebody is going
(08:01):
to toss this out like the Supreme Court did. Buck
mentioned it earlier, the Bob McDonald charges that were convictions
were obtained for in Virginia. Do you think that's likely?
And if it is, this is a multi year legal
process where I mean Trump could theoretically be president of
the United States before this thing has ever resolved. Yeah,
(08:26):
but I would say you're not only talking about multi years.
Your comparison to McDonald is a good one to make
this point. McDonald was a federal case, So you have
a straight line to the Supreme Court. Right, You get
your appeal to the Circuit Court of Appeals, and then
you automatically go up to the Supreme Court. In the
(08:46):
state system, Trump would have to go all the way
through the state process, the state court that he's in,
the appellate division to appeal it, the New York State
Court of Appeals, and then when his whole New York
thing is run, which takes years. Is if there's some
federal issue that impacted the case, the Supreme Court could
take it. And I say that as somebody who agrees
(09:07):
with you that there are multiple reasons where why. And
I don't want to put worth in your out here,
but I think it's likely that this thing, if the
judge is doing a job right, this thing will be
thrown out before it ever gets the trial. But what
I would caution people is once a case is in
the court, that is, once you've indicted the case and
(09:28):
it judges a sign the prosecutor loses any control over
the schedule. So a lot of this will have to
do with the proclivity of the judge and some of
them to be a little eccentric. Even if this is
the only case brought against Trump, even if the Fulton
County people do nothing in the special counter fool does nothing.
(09:50):
I don't see this case getting to trial, you said
twenty twenty four. I would say, yes, no earlier than that,
unless it gets thrown out before trial. Okay, building on that,
we simultaneously. Have you just mentioned the Fulton County case,
You've got now the New York City case. Also you
have the investigation going on into the Mara Lago classified
(10:12):
documents as well as January sixth, I floated this idea.
I'm curious what your expectation. This is the political as
much as it is the legal. More so probably that
I expect eventually for the Biden administration to come out
and adopt what I'm calling the Shaggy defense, which is saying,
for those of you who remember the song back in
the day, it wasn't me right that Biden can say, hey,
(10:35):
this is a state court, I'm not involved in this
at all, and that this could take Merrick Garland off
of having to bring any federal charges, because really what
Democrats want is Trump to face charges in some way,
and if he gets him maybe in Atlanta, and he's
got him in New York City, the federal aspect of this,
(10:56):
Biden could even say, Hey, I'm going to pardon Trump
and look like the good guy, but it wouldn't impact
whether those state courses could still be proceeding. Do you
buy into that idea, Yeah, I think it's entirely possible.
What cuts against it is that it looks right now
like the Special Cancel is stepping up his investigative activity,
(11:18):
you know, the pursuit of having Pence testifying, the grand jury,
the bringing. I guess what I'm saying, Andy, is Biden
could look like the good guy by saying there's clear
violations here, but I think it's bad for the country
for my Department of Justice to be charging Trump with crimes.
We're not going to do it, and then he still
gets the benefit of the state courts doing it while
(11:40):
also looking like a good guy. But I not But
any it sounds like you think that because I think
this that there may actually be federal charges coming to Yeah,
I think that, you know two things. To Clay's point,
I think there's no hurry on the federal side. Right
the yptional limitations on this stuff is not going to
(12:02):
run still earliest twenty twenty five, so they don't have
to plant their feet. Biden can't, I don't think, come
out and say I don't want my Justice Department getting
involved in this, because he's been a stickler from the
beginning of saying that the White House has nothing to
do with how the Justice Department is run. And because
of the jeopardy that the Biden family is in, he
(12:24):
can't afford to be taking the public position that he's
actually willing and dealing and controlling what the Justice Department does.
So I don't see him doing that, but I could
see him doing a silent version of it. Whereas like
the Justice Department has a lot of investigative activity like
they're doing now, but they don't actually charge anything. They
get all the benefit of the circus going on in
(12:46):
the safe proceedings, and in the meantime they can afford
to keep their powdered dry because they don't have to
charge Trump until twenty twenty five, the earliest andy in
your mind, just one more for you, then we got
to run to a break. Is there a realistic chance
that they put Donald Trump in his cell at some
point with all these different investigations in your mind? Or
are you worried that that's actually what they think is
(13:08):
going to happen. I don't unless he gets convicted of something, buck,
I don't see that. If he gets convicted, then it's
going to depend on what he gets convicted. If it's
this nonsense in New York, you know, I'm tempted to
say there's no way except you know, you guys mentioned
the accountant before A Weislberg is sitting in Rikers Island,
you know what. That's why. That's why to me it
(13:31):
has to be taken seriously, because his accountant, they got
him on the most kind of low level mickey mouse nonsense. Well,
but also he's got Supreme Court sorry, he's got Secret
Service protection. So I don't even know how you could
put him in you like, but what would happen if
Trump were elected president and simultaneously he was found guilty
of a state court charge. Could he be president of
(13:53):
the United States from a jail cell. I mean, I'm
just I legally, I'm just trying to even think through
the perfectations here, Andy, And I think what the Supreme
Court would say is if the Senate, if that, if
the Congress does not impeach and remove him, then what
the constitution sentence is, you have to be over thirty five,
a natural board United States citizen, and resident in the
(14:17):
country for fourteen years. If you meet those qualifications. The
American people, if they want to, if they want to
elect someone who's doing time in leaven Worth, there's nothing
the constitutions that they can so. I mean literally, he
could run the presidency from Rikers Island. Well, that remains
to be seen. I mean that to me, that would
be a good reason why. Um, you know you have
(14:37):
to start thinking about impeachment if we got to that point.
But you know, this is so unfriend. Anyone tells you
that they know how this is going to work out
with all the things we're now going to go through
that we've never gone through before. Who I mean, it's
like a league. That's the key, Andy, Like you're just
kind of throwing out random things that have never happened before.
I mean, this is it's wild because no one knows
where where it's gonna go. Andy, we need to do
(14:57):
like a like a two hour sit down podcast with
you about this, and we'll have to talk to your
people about it. We gotta run your break now. Everyone
look for Andy National Review and on Fox News Andie
McCarthy always illuminating, sir, Thanks for being with us. Thanks guys,
have a great weekend. You know, Clay, one quick thing
and I just keep for I just want to introduce
in the conversation because I've been meaning to say this.
(15:20):
The reason they're one of the reasons they're doing this
charge too, why this is the first one, because it's
they were trying to humiliate Trump. It's about the nature
of the charge too. The Democrats really get excited about that.
They really want to talk about porn stars and payoffs,
and they want to make it as this is much
more personal than the Georgia election issue, right, This is
(15:41):
much more personal. So it just gives you a sense
of the mindset they're really doing it, try to humiliate
the guy. It's grotesque, all right. It pays to prepare
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The Voices of Sanity in an Insane World Clay Travis
sad Buck Sexton, quick turn here because we just had
(17:09):
such an interesting conversation with Andy McCarthy. We're gonna take
more of your calls when we come back for the
rest of the show again. Benjamin Hall going to join
us in the third hour. He was horribly injured in Ukraine.
Fox News reporter. I think you will enjoy that conversation
as we finish off the show on Friday. But I
want your calls here. Eight hundred two eight two two
(17:29):
eight eight two. We've discussed the indictment. What is the
political ramification of that indictment? Does it help or hurt Trump?
That is I think the most interesting aspect of this
going forward. Let's discuss that. Good calls, good interaction. Both
fucking myself will be sharing our opinions on how exactly
(17:50):
that all breaks down. We will discuss with you when
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(18:58):
on the front lines of Trues. You guys are all
fired up obviously we're in unprecedented times. What the Democrats
have done is you know, you you have to be
careful with the words here. I was gonna say, you know, shocking,
(19:19):
and but we've known they were completely unethical. We've known
that they were planning to do something like this, So
in some sense, I guess we were prepared, even though
we realize how bad this is for the country. It's
it's it's just it's it's crazy. It's crazy. I try
to think of other words that I could say in
the radio without getting in trouble. Let's get to some
of your calls. All see your emails. By the way,
(19:41):
Clayan Buck vi IP go to Clonbuck dot com. Please
become a VIP subscriber. You can emails directly. It's kind
of like the Bat phone, but it's the Clay and
Buck well, but it's an email box, so that doesn't
really work. So it's the bat email box, which doesn't
make any sense. So I'm just gonna step away from
that one. Let's get U in Houston, Texas. Todd, You've
(20:01):
got some thoughts on the politics of this indictment. What's
going on? Yeah, good afternoon, guys. I don't think that
that's You're right on the Democrats not warning him to run.
I think they're scared of him to run. We need
to remember that President Trump only lost by forty thousand
votes and that's between you know, the states of Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin,
(20:22):
and Michigan. And uh, you know, giveing Arizona, Arizona, I think, Andy,
can I can I give you? By the way, I
am by no means saying that your theory or your
ideas is incorrect. You may may very well be totally
spot on. What do you think though about that was
when he was an incumbent. Now he's running as a challenger.
Do you think that matters a lot? No, I don't.
(20:45):
I think he'll be strong. And you guys even have
reference recently Luncoln's success in Virginia. You know that with
that state maybe being in play, and I think a
lot of those that you said would stay at home
the last time, and what's going on now? And on
top of can I say something at Todd that I
think I think it is in line with your theory also,
(21:06):
or rather would add to your sense of this because
by the way, I don't pretend to know and no
one knows, right, but your your sensibility here, or rather
your analysis, I think is very astute. It was COVID.
I mean, we had an election, you know, forget about
everything else and the and the ballot, the COVID year.
It was people weren't themselves. The whole psychology of the
(21:27):
country was turned upside down. So this would be just
based on that alone, a very different election. Todd's asking
the most important question from a political perspective, right, not
the legal, not the precedent going forward. Let's presume that
we're squaring up and it's going to be Trump versus
Biden rematch twenty twenty four. Okay. The question that I
(21:48):
think is the most paramount here is eighty one million
people according to the tally. I don't want to get
all the emails about oh they okay, eighty one million
people showed up and voted for Joe Biden according to
the tally. In twenty around seventy five million showed up
and voted for Donald Trump in twenty twenty. We see
(22:10):
rematches all the time in sports, right, outcome can be different,
happens all the time. My question, and I don't claim
to know the answer. I don't think anyone can know
the answer. Of the eighty one million votes that Joe
Biden got in twenty twenty, how many of those people
would show up and vote for Joe Biden again in
twenty twenty four. Of the seventy five million that Trump got,
(22:32):
how many of those seventy five million would show up
and vote for Trump again? And significantly, how many, let's
say there's one hundred and fifty six million votes that
came in, how many of those people out there who
voted in twenty twenty would change their opinion? The callers right,
twenty thousand vote opinion change right. But Wisconsin, Arizona, and Georgia,
(22:55):
if you change twenty thousand votes in those three states,
donald Trump wins the election. That's how close it was
would have been two sixty nine. Two sixty nine House
of Representatives would have decided who the president was in
twenty twenty. So, to me, the question you have to
ask is, how does the calculus change in twenty twenty
(23:16):
four if Trump's the guy? And remember Trump lost. Trump
lost because suburban voters. These are the same voters that
didn't vote for herschel Walker. Outside of Atlanta, the voters
that did not vote for Donald Trump outside of Milwaukee.
Voters that did not vote for Donald Trump actually in
the Phoenix area. Are those people more likely to change
(23:40):
their opinions because I think most of the states would
stay the same forty four or so of them. So
we also got an email in from a VIP who
has a different take on this than Todd Susan writes
in the constant beating of the drums last night that
the GOP now has no choice but to unite behind
Trump as the only candidate. Is offensive. I want Alvin
(24:02):
Bragg to pick my candidate like I want a hole
in my head. Trump might bring out the worst in
these hacks, but he was the one who knew Stormy Daniels.
He was the one who hired Michael Cohen. He is
the one that tried to rely upon silly voting machine attorneys.
His bad judgment never ends and is very tiresome. If
the Democrats stick with Trump as the GOP candidate, I
will be very bummed. Is that the goal or what
(24:25):
Biden is quiet? Because he could be right behind them,
right behind him thoughts, Let me just say this is there.
We have diverse perspectives on the issue. Of the GOP's
future among this audience and before anyone, I swear that
is an email from a VIP Okay, this is actually
coming from the listen. I think the question that we
got from our caller in Houston, and you say that
(24:46):
with Susan, who you're reading a VIP email from. Yeah,
these are very astute answers and questions that are being asked.
And here's the reality. No one knows. Right. So if
you're out there right now like, oh, this guarantees that
X is going to happen, I would just say you
are to be fair crazy because we're nine months away
(25:06):
still from the first votes in the primary season being cast.
We don't know how this is going to play out
in the short term. Buck, I don't think there's any doubt.
I think this benefits Trump. I just put up a
poll question and I said, does this make you more
or less likely to vote for Donald Trump? Right? What
just happened? More or less likely? Thousands of you have
(25:27):
voted already, and seventy eight percent are saying makes me
more likely to vote for Donald Trump. Twenty two percent
are saying less likely. Okay, so how is that going
to play over time? And to what extent. How does
Trump handle this buck? I think there's now reports that
he's going to be arraigned at two fifteen on Tuesday,
(25:51):
that is going to be a zoo in New York City.
He then has the opportunity to come out and speak
on the courthouse steps and what will probably be one
of the most watched comments slash moments of Donald Trump's
political career. What does he say? Last night? I said
the message should be not that he's a victim, in
(26:11):
my opinion, but that this is everything wrong with America
and that if you wanted to continue to be a
banana Republic, you have to support Joe Biden. Or is
he gonna come out, he's gonna take shots at the scantis.
Is he gonna say awful victim? Yeah? Yeah. I would
say that the fact that they went with this charge
(26:32):
at this stage, after all the stuff that we have heard,
it would be one thing. If I don't know, they
caught Trump taking money from Chinese and Ukrainian business interest
to the tune of millions of dollars that he didn't
pay taxes on and was clearly trying to hide through LLC's.
You can't really defend that right, unless you're Joe Biden's son,
(26:53):
in which case it doesn't matter. But I'm just saying,
if they had him on something where we all would
have to say, you know, oh, I mean, you did
really break the law and it does kind of matter,
that would be an entirely different conversation. They've gotten him
on something that we can sit here in good faith
and say, Annie McCarthy Klanaro just saying this off air too.
(27:14):
Always a straight knows the stuff backwards and fords, but
it's always a straight shooter too. He doesn't say what
he thinks people want to hear on one side of
the other. And he's sitting here, He's like, this is crazy.
This is just crazy that they're bringing this indictment. So
that's part of why I think it's not just they're
indicting a former president. And I think this is a
really important separation to to establish they are indicting a
(27:36):
former president in a way or or on a basis
that should get the prosecutor disbarred. That's how egregious and
flimsy and absurd and politicize this is. And so it
might get him the governor's office. Alb And this this
is what we told you for I haven't heard a
(27:57):
lot of people talk about this either. It can be
nationally a poor decision for Alvin Bragg to bring these
charges for purposes of his state political standing. He has
elevated himself to a level that every district attorney in
America is jealousy of Democrat for anyone, and our our
(28:18):
wr audience certainly knows this backwards and forwards, although a
lot of them who live in some of the outlying
suburbs and Staten Island deal with this a whole lot less.
But for anyone who doesn't know what it's like that
for people living in a place like New York, imagine
you're in a room with you know, with ten people,
and nine of them think that double masking alone outside
(28:39):
because Fauci says so is a great idea. They think that,
you know, Kamala Harris is a great leader of the
future and we should all unite behind her. They think,
you know, go down the list. Nine of the ten
people in the room with you think that that is
New York City. That's the way it is in some
of these Democrats strongholds. So just there is no voice
of reason. That's why that's why I'm trying to just
(29:01):
establish this for everybody. There's no one really saying, hey,
hold on a second, we have to get a handle
on things. So anyway, we'll take more calls, more emails,
because this is it looks it's important that all of
you have your voices heard by your fellow conservatives and
fellow patriots all across the country. So we'll bring more
of that in. Then we have coming up. Obviously, we're
(29:22):
gonna have the interview and we're looking forward to speaking
to Benjamin Hall about his book and his story, which
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out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with Clay
and Buck podcasts. A new episode every Sunday. Find it
on the iHeart Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
(30:47):
I'm gonna run through some of your calls here to
close out in the second hour of the program. Obviously,
we are reacting to the indictment. First time in the
two hundred and forty year history of the United States
that a former president or president when running for office
like this, has been indicted. Gretchen in Georgia, what do
you think? Well, what I think is whatever they try
(31:09):
to do to Trump, Trumpsters are going to vote for Trump.
I know a lot of small town Democrats that voted
for Biden don't want him to run again. They think
he's too old and too incompetent, and they don't like Trump.
So what I think is going to happen is those
Democrats won't vote at all. It could be a plus
for Trump. Yes, it's a great that's look. The reality is, Buck,
(31:30):
we don't know. But the question I'm asking, which I
think you all have to consider as we move through
all of this crazy process, is eighty one million people
voted for Joe Biden in twenty twenty And I'm not
going to have an argument about like, oh, well they
changed like eighty one million people. Okay, As one of
our callers pointed out, twenty thousand voters change their minds
(31:51):
in Wisconsin, in Georgia, in Arizona, Trump wins, right, how
many of those eighty one million will show up for
Biden and how many of the seventy five million will
show up for Trump? What would change in twenty twenty four?
That's a theory, Gretchen says, some of those people who
voted against Trump and Buck, I think your point on Hey,
it was COVID right. People were fearful. They thought that
(32:13):
Biden was going to return normalcy. He hasn't done it.
My biggest fear about the rerun in twenty twenty four.
If we get it, it should be a referendum on
Biden if Trump runs, but it won't be always about
But it won't be this is the problem. Well, you
and I both know that Biden is irrelevant. He's a
stand in for Democrat. He is you know, he is
(32:35):
the supermarket on the shelf, store brand version of a Democrat.
It just doesn't matter. No one votes for him, they
vote against Tron, or they just vote Democrat because that's
who they are. So this is why we oft understand.
It's it's a question of machinery. And I want everyone
to be ready for this too. Let's assume it is
(32:57):
going to be Trump this time around. If it's Trump
is the nominee, there needs to be a willingness to say, hey,
don't hire idiots, don't hire people who are morons. People
have to be willing to say that to him. I'm
just you know, this is the part of it, and
say it like a coach whose heart and soul is
with the team that he wants to win. Because there
(33:19):
were a lot I went through this a lot of
people in twenty twenty. Oh you know, don't he knows
exactly what he's doing, don't. His campaign one of his
campaign manager at some point was arrested shirtless on the
front lawn in Florida or whatever. You remember that. Oh yeah, yeah, Okay,
he did know exactly what he's doing. We're here to
help because we want him to be the best version
(33:40):
of him so that he can save the country and
he can beat these lunatic communists. So that's one thing
I want to just throw down with right now. The
personnel side. The man. You love him, I love him.
He needs help on personnel full stop. So I just
want ever to get ready for that if if he is,
in fact, you know, the nominee. And look, even Andy said,
(34:01):
can I just put out there? I said, Andy, do
you think they might actually try to lock him up?
It wasn't. No, he's you know, it's not likely, but
it's not a zero chance if he takes this thing
all the way. Yeah, I don't think he's gonna go
away for a long time. But Clay, if you won't
take a plea bargain, it's a felony. Yeah, what do
they do. With a felon who won't take a plea bargain,
(34:21):
they lock them up if they're convicted. That's why I'm saying,
when you're in law school, Buck, the way you get
judged is you have final exams and your professors come
up with all sorts of crazy hypotheticals. That's why I
was saying, is there a hypothetical universe where Trump could
(34:42):
be convicted of New York state law, sentenced to prison,
and simultaneously after that elected as United States President, and
he is the president from a New York City jail
or prison. We're getting a little far down the theory theory.
The question that I've been asking, which no one seems
(35:03):
to even think about, is how do you put someone
with Secret Service protection in jail? Congress would have to do
do it. Congress would have to probably take some action
to address it. I don't know how you can't take
away the Secret Service protection of Trump because somebody would
kill him in prison. Do you have any doubt about Like,
the whole thing is crazy, but you're not gonna have
(35:25):
to it. I can't believe we've been talking about this.
They would clearly put him in some sort of administrative
segregation where he'd be held. But look, he's not going
I don't think he's going to prison for any of
This is when we say he may he may be
found guilty. Understand, we know he didn't do anything. We
know this whole thing is a farce, but they may
see it through. This is why the New York judges
(35:48):
need to toss out this indictment because legally it isn't supportable.
And again I think a jury would convict him. Kevin
and Cincinnati has a really good question, and I'm gonna
be honest with you, Kevin, I don't know the answer,
but float your question. This goes back to what you
guys were talking about before with the whole breaking of
(36:08):
the damn analogy. If he does end up getting indicted
in Georgia, can Brian Kemp pardon him? Yes, fantastic for
state law violations. Would the governor of Georgia be able
to pardon Trump? And wouldn't that be interesting? Wouldn't that
be quite a turn about? Brian Kemp could step in,
and by the way, I think he I think he should.
(36:29):
Yeah in Remember some people are like, oh, Trump can
pardon himself, which is a crazy legal theory the president. Well,
also only if it's federal charges, right, You can't pardon
someone for state charges, which is why I'm saying Biden
can throw up his hands and be like, I'm not
involved in New York City or Georgia, but the governor
of Georgia is Brian Kemp, who Trump has been tuting
(36:51):
with for years now. Like, there's so again, this is
such a crazy spot. We'll break it down more for
you when we're returned playing Bucket Play Travis and Buck
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