September 18, 2023 • 37 mins
WSJ piece on relationship between Biden and Garland. Avik Roy, President of the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity and Policy Editor at Forbes, joined Clay and Buck to discuss the unaffordable American healthcare system and how it can be fixed, like not subsidizing rich people and stimulating competition. New C&B Kalamazoo, Michigan affiliate WKZO, 590 AM / 106.9 FM.
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Well Good Now, number two, Monday Edition,
Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. We hope all of you
had fantastic weekends. And I had two birthday parties to celebrate.
Both of them went well. So I now have a
nine year old and a thirteen year old in addition
(00:22):
to the fifteen year old. So happy birthday to Lincoln
and Nash. We had a good time, went and watched
a football game, ran around, had a lot of pizza,
a lot of cake, as one would imagine, and that
was a lot of fun. Buck. I know you continue
to be deep in the weeds of writing your book,
which is not as much fun. But this morning I'm
(00:42):
reading the Monday edition to Wall Street Journal, and I
think this is important because we've been talking about for
those of you missed the first hour, Hunter Biden suing
the irs. By the way, we're going to be joined
by Ovic Roy at one point thirty. He's fantastic, so
you can put that on the ray. And Buck, I
(01:02):
saw this story and it reminded me of a front
page New York Times story that ran I think back
in like March or April, and that story front page
I believe it was a Sunday edition in New York
Times made it known that Joe Biden was unhappy with
the progress of Merrick Garland and his Department of Justice
(01:26):
as it pertained to investigations of Donald Trump. And shortly
thereafter there was the appointment of Jack Smith as the
Special counsel and then boom, boom boom, suddenly you get
federal charges in both South Florida and in and in DC.
And that was not coincidental. It was Joe Biden speaking
(01:49):
through the media to his Attorney general in a way
that he could not miss it. Today headline on the
front page, well the fourth page of the Wall Street
Journal probe's ad strain between President and Attorney General. And
I thought this was really interesting, Buck, because I remember
(02:11):
we were talking about last week. I wonder what the
relationship now is like between Merrick Garland and Joe Biden.
And the opening paragraph here says, the already frosty relationship
between President Biden and his Attorney General Merrick Garland is
now in a deep freeze. That's the opening paragraph of
(02:32):
their piece, Respect and Admiration among White House aids for
Garland has shifted for some into resignation and distrust. They
point to Garland having appointed not just a special counsel
to investigate Trump, but two others as well, one looking
into Biden and another into Hunter. Some Biden aides have
(02:57):
said they see Garland's handling of the in querries as
driven less by dispassionate pursuit of justice than by a
punctiliest desire to give the appearance that sensitive investigations are
walled off from political pressure. People familiar with the matter
say these Aids then Buck point out that they're upset
(03:21):
that the Biden classified documents investigation has not occurred, and
then buried down here at the end is adding to
the fraud relationship between the Justice Department and the White House.
Special Counsel Robert Her, remember him, Buck, We haven't heard
about Special Counsel Robert Her since he was appointed. That
is the guy who's looking into the Biden classified do
(03:42):
Biden documents was a total non event. But he's been
negotiating with Biden's lawyers, according to this story, for weeks
over an interview with the President, and they are unhappy
about how those negotiations have gone. All right, So do
you buy into this idea that the way that Biden
(04:06):
chooses to speak about Merrick Garland is actually through the media.
He knows everybody's going to read this, and that this
is designed to put pressure on Merrick Garland and basically say,
the White House is upset with you. Do you think
this is? You don't buy this? So what do you think?
What's the what's the impetus behind this article in your mind?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Then the impetus in my mind is And maybe I'm
I might be giving Democrats too much credit here, but
I think this is meant to give the impression that
Biden so upset that this super tough do OJ is
going after his son, and that it's out of his
(04:47):
hands now. And I think the fix is still in.
I think that the fix has been in all along here.
It's just Hunter is such a screw up. I mean,
Hunter is such a walking felony that it's become more challenging.
And the House Republicans have played a major role in this. Remember,
if the laptop isn't left right before, or the laptop
(05:08):
story she said doesn't come out right before the election,
if the laptop isn't left at that repair shop. None
of this ever really comes out right, Yeah, none of
this ever becomes a thing, correct. So this is like,
you know, when I point this out to people, I mean,
if I remember correctly, with Hillary Clinton, there was something
in the the Benghazi emails, the Bengazi hearings they saw
and then this is how they figured out that Hillary
(05:30):
had some So as reckless as Hillary's email scheme was,
she almost got away with it. Right now, I sound
like the guy at the end of the Scooby Doo
cartoon and like it wasn't for you, gosh.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Darn kids, I would have gotten away with it. But
she almost got away with it entirely scot free.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
The whole scam, which was just meant to make sure
that she had control overall communications, couldn't be foid because
of all the corruption that the Clinton Foundation. It was
a pay for play scheme was engaged in, and with Hunter,
I think he almost got away with it. So bringing
this back to you're asking me what i'd thing's going
on here, Merrick Garland appointed somebody who's not even legitimate
(06:05):
within DOJ's own regulations to be the special counselor to
Hunter Biden, who's a Hunter Biden partisan basically who had
been running the scam investigation beforehand, and Merrick Garland has
effectively bent over backwards to have the appearance of propriety
for the purposes of all things Hunter Biden, while doing
everything possible behind the scenes to actually scuttle any real
(06:28):
accountability for the Democrat president's son. So to me, I
think this is the Oh he's been so tough on
the Bidens that Merrick Garland, you know, think of the
sourcing from him he's been Because what's the benefit of
going against Merrick Garland in public this way? I don't
(06:48):
see it from the Democrat perspective. If anything, you'd want
to pressure him privately. So I think this is all
for show. That's my I think this is a show
to make it seem like Joe Biden so worried about
what's going on with this song because this big, mean
attorney general is going after him.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I'm not buying it. I think it's I know, I
think that's a very valid perspective you could have. And
if that's true, then the Wall Street Journal reporters of
this article got played right, because that if they are
putting out a message that is not actually rooted in truth.
(07:26):
Then they are being played to do what you're saying,
which is try to provide cover because it makes it
sound like, oh, Biden's really upset, but the reality is
he's not upset at all. And then in which case
they're writing a falsehood. But it makes it look like
Merrick Garland is independent because he's actually giving Merrick Garland
(07:48):
the cover here because he's claiming, oh, Merrick Garland is
being so tough on Joe Biden. Right, So it's it's
basically the opposite of the way that the story is conveyed.
It's more of a think about k than it is
a criticism.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
People will use that. You know, they'll use this phrase
to influence and to inform. Right, there's there's two things
you can think of simultaneously. It's not just to tell
someone something, it's to tell them something for a specific purpose.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And Biden. This is what the article says. Quote.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Some Biden aids have said they see Garland's handling of
the inquiries and the Biden family has driven less by
dispassionate pursuit than by punk what you read, punctilious desire.
Those aids point out that prosecutors yadaya YadA. What Biden
aids Clay are talking to the Wall Street Journal. Think
about that for a second too, right, who who.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Like to me this is play.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It all goes to, you know, Hunter, Biden's bringing the
indictment or not indictment.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
DA lawsuit against the I R S.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And now all look at how rough the attorney general's
relationship is with the president and all this stuff to
create this completely false premise that things are actually uh
you know that that that the system is working against
Hunter and the and that there's not effectively a get
out of jail free card waiting for him.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
At the end of this.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I mean that what White House says are gonna talk
to the Wall Street the Wall Street Journal, they know
is basically opposition media. I mean, the Wall Street Journal
reporters would disagree with that, but you know it's a
right of center paper. So I see this as as
they're meant. They're trying to influence as well as informed.
That is how I see this this article, and I
just know it's.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Interesting and I could see that argument the opening paragraph again,
the already frosty relationship between President Biden and his Attorney
General Merrick Garland is now in a deep freeze. Why
is it frosty?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But let me ask this question, what what is Merrik
Arland supposed to do?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What is I think they say it's frosty because he
appointed again. It's an interesting question. I think he's fascinated
by this, not to a point space.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
He waited and waited they were finding classified documents in
the corvette next to the old tennis rackets, and I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That the whole thing is crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
He has been holding out for the Bidens at every step.
He The Bidens want him on that wall, Clay, they
need him on that wall. The notion that Merrick Garland
is like why it up cleaning up the mess here
of the Biden White House is absurd. And that's why
when I see this piece, I look at it, I go,
(10:26):
why would anyone in the Biden orbit right now, going
this election year present this to the Wall Street Journal.
They're definitely not gonna fire Merrick Garland, right, there's no,
he can't do it, right, So what really is the
play here? And if it's in a deep freeze, is
this gonna make the relationship better?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
No?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So I think this is really interesting. I think that
it's possible. This is spy stuff. Clay. I'm going full
see and I'm analyzing because I see this story and
I'm like, this is a Monday Morning story. That's a
really strong opening paragraph. I see the story and I think, so,
why would it be in a d freeze. Let's pretend
(11:06):
that it is. Let's pretend that they're correct and that
they are not getting along. I think it would be
that the Biden administration has finally embarrassed Merrick Garland to
such an extent. Let me give you a couple of
examples of that. When they got the sweetheart deal for
Hunter Biden. Do you know what they did? They invited
(11:27):
Merrick Garland and Hunter to that. I think it was India.
At the state dinner. There's only like one hundred and
fifty people or whatever it is there, and you've got
your Attorney general mingling with the president's son that he
just gave a get out of jelfree I can see
Merrick Garland saying that is reckless. They put me in
a really bad position. I think the way that the
(11:48):
thing the hearing went down with Judge Noryeika. Even if
you are doing the dirty work of the client, which
you could argue Merrick Garland has been there is a
point where you moved from advocate to shameless partisan. And
I wonder if Merrick Garland believes that the Biden administration
(12:10):
has put him into the role of shameless partisan and
he's unhappy and uncomfortable with it. That's the only reason
I could see it be in deep freeze.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I think Merrick Garland has wholeheartedly embraced his role as
shameless partisan.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Let's not forget Merrick Garland.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
His DOJ was involved in the threat that parents pose
by objective get itchool.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
He's a disaster.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
He's as an Attorney general, and I think a lot
of people even years ago, I remember speaking to Andy
McCarthy about this, back when he was back when Merrick
Garland was up for that Obama appointed Supreme Court seat
if it could get through the Senate didn't get through,
and they were all telling us, and even in some
conservative if I remember correctly pardoned me Andy if I'm wrong,
but he said that Merrick was.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
A pretty pretty middle of the road guy.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And since then, since he's been Attorney General, everyone on
the right I know has said this guy is a hack,
and this guy is a scoundrel. And so it's with
that in mind that I see this as I mean,
to the point that you're making, is it possible that
they've pushed him so like people do have a breaking point,
there is a break Even lib media journals we've discussed this,
have their guys. I'll lie for you, but I won't
(13:21):
abjectly humiliate myself to my own audience for you. Right,
there's a line that they won't necessarily willingly go past.
They'll go past it, but they'll they'll whine about it.
But for me, I still see this as White House
aids trying to create the perception of the public's mind
that justice will be done here about Hunter Biden, when
there's plenty of indicators that the furthest possible thing is going.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
To be the end. So your take is an interesting one.
It's that the Wall Street Journal reporters got played. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Because I don't see why would these aids give the
Wall Street Journal this story at this time if it's true.
How many other times have we seen Biden White House
aides come forward to give what could be I don't
think it is, but could be damaging information about the regime.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I can't remember the last time that happened. No, I mean,
I see this, And the other question I would have
is from an editorial perspective, did the editors question it too?
Because it's not on the front page. So when I
read it, I was like, oh, this is interesting. They
put it on page four, like if they truly thought
they had a big scoop about discord between Biden and
(14:29):
his attorney general. That feels like to me, a you know,
a one top of the top of the fold story.
So I'm curious on that too.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Just putting it out there, folks, I think this could
have This could have been a stealth operation, a propaganda
mission through the through the journal life.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Well, we'll continue to watch this one. I just I
don't see if.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
You're in a reality based world, Clay, if you're Joe Biden,
you are thanking Merrick Garland every day for doing every
possible to give Hunter every opportunity to completely escape without
any consequences. I mean, short of I don't know what
I wonder, like, what else could he have possibly done
at this point? Remember the prosecutors tried to get that
(15:15):
deal through. Yeah, the federal prosecutors tried to give Hunter
Biden a deal. I mean that was like an Epstein
level deal. For those of you who know about the
original Epstein deal with the FEDS that actually cost a
Trump appointee his job and the Trump administration from when
he was US attorney. I believe it was a cost. Well,
I gotta check in the name, but it was the
(15:36):
most sweetheart deal imaginable. So anyway, we'll watch this one.
I'm curious aline. Cyber thieves are always evolving and have
gotten a lot more sophisticated, and with AI, or artificial intelligence,
now being available to all, you're that much more vulnerable
to their crimes. AI technology allows cyber thieves to create photos, videos,
and voice recordings of you or someone you might know
(15:57):
that are almost impossible to distinguish from reality. It's important
to understand how cybercrime and identity theft are affecting our lives.
Your personal information gets exposed so often, making it very
easy for a cyber criminal to steal your online identity.
Protecting your identity can be easy with LifeLock. Their systems
monitor online transactions and actions like new account openings.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
If you do become a victim of identity.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to
fix it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
That's going to be very helpful when you need it most.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
No one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all
transactions at all businesses, but it's easy to help protect
yourself with LifeLock. Join now save twenty five percent off
your first year with my name Buck as the promo code.
Call one eight hundred LifeLock or go online to LifeLock
dot com and use promo code Buck for twenty five
percent off.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Helping you separate truth from fiction every single weekday to
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
People are really concerned about the cost of well living
these days.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
The cost that's going by your day to day.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Life inflation still stubbornly high, soft landing for the economy
looking less and less likely. What does that mean, Well,
a lot of people have different opinions on that. But
how does healthcare and specifically the remnants or the remaining
components of Obamacare play into all of this. It could
(17:19):
be something that really becomes important. I think in the
twenty twenty four election. Healthcare is generally one of the
top issues. Clay, We've got our friend Ovic Royal be
joining us here in just a few minutes to talk about.
Is healthcare getting even more expensive than it has been,
which is too expensive to begin.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
With, no doubt, especially when you consider the results that
we get on healthcare in this country are actually not
as beneficial as other countries. The data reflects that we
could cut basically half of all health care spending and
not change outcome at all. I'm curious what Ovic would
say about all that. He's a smart guy also right
about a lot of the things related to COVID. I'm
(17:58):
curious what he thinks about the full post mortem for
our COVID response. Thinking about upgrading the sheets in your
home as temperature starts to get a little bit cooler.
My Pillow having a closeout sell on their per cow sheets.
Sheets are amazing. You'll want to roll all over them,
not get out of bed right now, available in a
wide variety of colors and sizes, all included in this
closeout sale. Queen size sheets regularly cost ninety bucks. Right
(18:22):
now they're thirty five dollars with our names Clay and
Buck as your promo code. The MyPillow perkal sheets made
to accommodate thick mattresses, made even more comfortable with a
mattress topper, which you can also get at MyPillow. Just
go to my pillow dot com click on the radio
listeners special square to get to my Pillow. Percalw sheets
for as low as twenty five bucks for a twin set,
(18:43):
thirty five bucks for a queen set. Enter the promo
code Clay and Buck. You can also call eight hundred
seventy nine to two thirty two sixty nine for this
great special that's my pillow dot Com. Use the code
Clay and Buck. Slee Travis and Buck Sexton on the
front lines of truth. Welcome back in Clay Travis buck
(19:05):
Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.
We're joined now by Ovik Roy, president of the Foundation
for Research on Equal Opportunity Policy, editor at Forbes. It's
done fantastic work for a variety of different issues. I
think the last time I saw you, Ovic was down
last year in Austin for the Alabama Texas game, which
is a lot of fun. And I think you're still
(19:27):
in aton where your organization is based. But you're a
big Michigan Wolverine fan. So before we dive into healthcare
policy issues, how would you assess we just got a
brand new affiliate in Detroit nine ten am. We're blowing
up all over the state of Michigan. How would you
assess the University of Michigan start to the season.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Well, those Lions fans are going nuts in Detroit. That's
been a hot topic out there. But yeah, I think
you know, so far the non conference schedule, I can't
say that Michigan has overperformed. There's been a I think
a lot of lack of chemistry on the offensive line.
The perimeter blocking in the run game hasn't been great,
whether it's the tight ends or particularly the wide receivers.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They did a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Better on that against Bowling Green, so that was a
good sign. Korm seemed to get his legs back, but
then JJ McCarthy had a couple of brain dead throws
and very unlike him with flashbacks the TCU. So they
obviously have to get that cleaned up. But they've got
all the pieces. Look, they have great offensive line in theory,
they have great two great running backs, first round caliber
(20:31):
running backs. They have a first round caliber quarterback. They
have fast receivers, they have great tight ends. On defense,
their defensive line is awesome Georgia level perhaps, and their
secondary is banged up a little bit but looking pretty good.
So they've got they've got all the pieces to go
very far, but they just have to put it all together,
(20:51):
and they haven't done that yet. And the Rutgers next
week is going to be an underrated test because Rutgers
is looking pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'm gonna do the nerve here and I'm gonna ask
you about healthcare policy if I can.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I know you guys are having fun.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I was thinking of you all of that with that
Alabama Texas game though the week before last, because that
would have been a fun one to see. I bet
you guys if you were there, I had a great time.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That was a phenomenal I was a phenomenal game, especially
because it was almost such a big upset. But a
lot of people out there have too much that they're
paying for healthcare premiums, healthcare visits across the board. You know,
I pulled this up right beforehand, Ovic, and I know
you're a healthcare policy expert, have been for many years
(21:34):
that affordability of healthcare when you average it between Democrat
and Republican in most of the major polls, that you
can pull for the last well, probably a long time.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It's certainly in the last twelve.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Monthslity of affordability of healthcare is a top two or
three issue, and poll after poll for people right now
usually just behind inflation and jobs. Those are the ones
that inflation, jobs, and then affordability of healthcare pops up
right alongside them.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I thought Obamacare was supposed to fix all that. What happened?
What happened? How are things getting more expensive? Ovic?
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah? They called it the Affordable Care Act, right, and
healthcare in fact Obama you'll remember this, Buck and Clay
you might as well. In two thousand and eight, when
Obama was campaigning for president, he promised repeatedly on the
campaign trail, and I've got the video to prove it,
that his plan would reduce the average family's healthcare premiums
(22:28):
by twenty five hundred dollars per year. He kept repeating
that promise, which came out of a random, you know,
liqive back of the envelope estimate from a couple of
Harvard professors who were kind of guessing basically. But he
ran with that and instead healthcare premiums for the average
consumer average family four went up by twenty five hundred
(22:49):
dollars for a family for in year one, and it's
only gotten worse over time. And now we have to
say that healthcare was expensive before Obamacare. Its prices were
growing faster than inflation before Obamacare. Obamacare made it worse
if you had to buy insurance on your own, so
if you weren't getting it from your employer, you weren't
(23:10):
getting it from the government, you were shopping for it.
And the old what was called the individual market for
health insurance, it used to be a lot cheaper. Under Obamacare,
those premiums doubled and tripled, and they've continued to go up.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So, Ovik, this is part and parcel of I think
a failure of the American healthcare system. And you tell
me if I'm wrong here. But the data that I
have seen suggests that if we had half as much
medical treatment, there would be no change really in the
amount of years of average life that are added, right,
(23:44):
In other words, the quality of the healthcare results would
not change with half of the amount of healthcare spending.
Do you buy that or do you think that's an
exaggerated analysis of our current system.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I do buy that there's stuff we do at the
end of life that you know, to kind of be heroes.
That may not make much of a difference. But the
problem is it's really hard. It's easy to look at
that in hindsight and say, oh, we shouldn't have done that,
or we shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
That didn't work.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
But you don't know until you try it, right, And
who's going to tell that seventy five year old or
that eighty year old don't do that, don't do that
thing that might save my life. Right, So that's a
hard thing to solve. But what you can solve, and
what's clearly true in the United States, is that unit
price of every piece of healthcare we deliver to people
(24:35):
is way higher here. Most people know that what you
pay for prescription drugs in the US is two to
five x what it is in other countries. That's true
of hospital care too, the average hospital stay. In the US,
we actually are very good at getting people out of
the hospital. A lot of the surgeries. You know, when
I tore my achilles five years or seven years ago,
it was done in a day. I was in and
out of the hospital a day. So in a lot
(24:56):
of other countries, that's a five day operation, or you're
in the hospital for seven days. So we're really good
at getting people in and out of the hospital, which
would save a lot of money. The problem is, each
day we spent in an American hospital costs five times
as it does five times as much as it does
in Switzerland or Germany or Scandinavi or any other.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Wealthy country that you can think of.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
So the problem in America is that the price of
the healthcare that we deliver is way higher than it
is elsewhere. And the reason for that is because we've
made eighty years of policy mistakes at the federal level
that have incentivized drug companies and hospitals and doctors and
lab test companies to charge you more and more every
(25:36):
year because you don't pay directly for those services. You know,
you think you bought insurance, your employer bought it for you,
and you have no sense of what anything costs or
what you paid for anything because you didn't directly pay
for it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So what are the parties offering right now for Democrat
Republic in twenty twenty four healthcare solutions? One thing I
asked Clay about, and I was talking about this off aras, like,
does anything even have.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
A healthcare plan that they're talking about right now? What
is it and what should it be? Maybe more importantly, yeah,
so far, not much.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
So Biden hasn't really talked about much on healthcare other
than you know, continuing to bail out Obamacare with more subsidies.
They did pass the Inflation Reduction Act Medicare prescription drug
price negotiation provisions last year, which I actually think is
reasonably good policy, and I can get into that if
(26:31):
you want so. I'm different from a lot of Republicans
on that particular piece. I think it's actually the pro
free market thing to do to let Medicare negotiate drug
prices to a limited degree. But if I talked to
the Republican field, there's not a lot at all now
that could change. You know, it's still early in the campaign.
It's possible that you'll see some of the candidates in
(26:53):
the Republican field talk about healthcare more as the as
the campaign goes along, but as of now, we don't
have a lot of details from the candidates. The closest
we've gotten, I think is Nikki Haley, who said at
the last debate that she's very concerned about the federal
deficit and debt and flagged healthcare is one of the
causes of that.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
But she didn't get into a lot of details as
to what her plan would be.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
So how do we fix it?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Well, you know, at my think tank, the Foundation for
Research on Equal Opportunity, we've talked about how to fix
it for a long time. In fact, there's a bill
that's been introduced in Congress in both the House and
the Senate based on our work called the Fair Care Act,
and it's the main sponsors in the House are a
Congressman from Arkansas named Bruce Westerman and one from Indiana
named Jim Banks. And then in the Senate it's an
(27:42):
Indiana Senator named Mike Brawn. And basically, the idea of
the Fair Care Act is pretty simple. Let's make healthcare
less expensive by unleashing the forces of competition innovation so
that people are competing for your business as a consumer.
Let's make sure that we're only subsidizing people who really
need to help. So one of the real things that
(28:03):
we do that's a mistake in America is you and
I pay taxes, and all your listeners pay taxes, so
that Warren Buffett and Mitt Romney can get some government
subsidized healthcare.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Why is that?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Why don't we actually subsidize healthcare only for the people
who truly struggle to afford it, whether it's because they're vulnerable,
they're sick, or they're low income or even middle income
people who just can't afford it. And let's stop subsidizing
health care for rich people. If we just stop subsidizing
healthcare for rich people and allow people to buy the
insurance they want to buy instead of having it forced
(28:34):
upon them by their employer or the government, you'd unleash
enormous synergies in terms of savings. Because at the end
of the day, what we all know about everything in
life is that if you're spending your own money, you're
going to be a lot more careful about how you
spend it. But if somebody else is spending somebody else's
money on your behalf, no one's going to care how
it's spent. And that's what allows everyone in the healthcare
(28:56):
industry to raise prices on you. So the left wing
solution to that is the government run it even more right,
have price controls, restrict access to expensive things, all the
things that you see in all those single payer countries.
But there's a free market way to do this, which
is you should control the healthcare dollars that are spent
on your behalf. If you spend the money, just like
on everything else you do in life, you're going to
(29:17):
spend it wisely. And yes, let's make sure that we
help the people who truly truly need the help.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
But that's a fraction of who we're subsidizing today.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Ovik, easy question. Example of that. I've had three kids.
Fortunately they have all had relatively smooth deliveries. We went
and toured all of the places in Nashville where you
have children, you know, hospitals. None of them could tell
me what it was going to cost. They could tell
me that they were going to have Wi Fi. They
(29:45):
could tell me that they were going to have bamboo floors.
They could tell me that we were going to have
private waiting rooms. None of them could tell me what
having a baby was going to cost. And I just
I couldn't gain ask that. When you would tour, it
gets his discretionary right. I could choose to go to
this hospital or that hospital. In every other facet there
would be price competition. They couldn't even tell me the cost, right.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
And there's no law preventing them from telling you the cost,
they just have no incentive to do so. How crazy
of all the government distortions. It's crazy. And if you
showed up.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Observabick, if you showed up to buy a car and
you just walked onto the car lot and no one
told you what a car costs, it would be madness.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
That's basically what happens oftentimes with healthcare, even when it's
a discretionary time. You know, it's not like this was
an emergency. You can pick where you're.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Going absolutely, and so uh.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
You know, one of the things I tell conservative Republicans
all the time is you hear some people say it's
not the federal government's job to fix healthcare and make
it more affordable for you. I understand that sentiment. But
what people need to understand is the reason healthcare is
so stupid and expensive and opaque to the patient and
the consumer is because the federal government has been messing
it up for eighty years. And so it is important
(31:03):
for members of Congress and senators to fix the things
that the federal government has messed up. That Congress has
messed up about healthcare for eighty years, and price transparency
is part of it. Not just price transparency, so you
as a patient or as a parent can know how
much it's going to cost you to get your baby delivered.
But one of the things that the Trump administration did
that I think is a really positive development that's going
(31:25):
to improve healthcare over the next several years is the
Trump administration passed some a series of regulations that force
insurers and hospitals to be transparent about the prices they
negotiate with each other. So if Blue Cross or United
or at N or whichever insurance plan you have, has
negotiated a certain price for that delivery of a baby
(31:47):
at a particular hospital, now that has to be disclosed
to the public. Now the hospital has been dragging their
feet and disclosing that data, and that's an area where
the government has to be more, has to do more
to force the transparency rules. But once you have that
data out there, then as an employer, you can see
whether or not your insurer has done a good job
of negotiating on your behalf. Because sometimes insurers are lazy,
(32:09):
they don't actually do a good job of negotiating on
your behalf, because actually, if healthcare prices are higher and
their operating margin is five percent of a bigger number,
they make more money. They actually make more money if
healthcare is more expensive in a paradoxical way. So as
a business, or as a consumer, or as an individual,
what you need to know is whether those insurers are
doing a good job negotiating on your bealth. And one
(32:31):
way for you to do that is to pay for
the premium yourself instead of having someone pay the premium
for you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
So another big reform.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
And part of the Fair Care Act, is, instead of
what we do now, which is given a big tax
break to the employer, if the employer buys health insurance
for you, why not give the money to you to
buy the health insurance that you want to buy. Then
you really unleash these forces of competition, just like the
exists in other parts of the economy. And that's what
we got to do if we want to not have
(32:57):
a socialized system. I think the thing that Republicans do
that concerns me is they're so scarred by the experience
of twenty seventeen, not failing to repeal in a place
Obamacare in seventeen that they just don't want to touch it.
They're like, you know what, we tried doing healthcare in seventeen.
We got our fingers burned on the stove. We don't
want to deal with them again. And that's a mistake
because healthcare keeps getting more expensive. Just as you said,
(33:18):
the polls show that it's a top concern of voters.
And if Republicans and Conservatives don't have a reform that's
going to work, then people are going to turn to Democrats.
And we know what Democrats are going to support. They're
going to support public options, they're going to support single payer,
they're going to support removing even further the role of
the private sector in healthcare.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Ovic Roy, president of the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity.
Ovic Always a pleasure, sir, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Great to see both.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
You're part of an audience that has plenty of entrepreneurs
listening in those men and women who are the source
of so many jobs created here in America. One of
those entrepreneurs is the founder of Chalk, a company that's
become known for their best in class supplements Chalk full
of natural ingredients. Chalk supplements are formulated for both men
and women. You can read all about their carefully curated
ingredients and what they can do for you online at
(34:06):
Chalk dot com spelled cchoq. For example, Chalk's Mail Vitality
Stack helps men realize their full energy potential. The leading
ingredient in Chalk's Mail Vitality Stack has been proven to
replenish diminished amounts of testosterone most men experience, and it
can increase it by twenty percent over three months time.
Look Chalk dot com. Choq dot COM's where you want
(34:28):
to go. You can save thirty five percent on the
Chalk subscription you choose when you use my name Buck
in your purchase process. That's chalkcchoq dot com. Use my
name Buck for thirty five percent.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Off, Download and use then you clayan Buck app. Listen
to the program live, catch up on any part of
the show you might have missed. Find every podcast as
their release, then listen. Find the Clay and Buck app
in your app store and make it part of your day.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We are not tired of winning here on the code play,
and we have another affiliate win to bring to everybody.
Thence It's in a state that is near and dear
to your heart up in Michigan, mister Clay Travis.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Tell everybody where they can listen. Now our newest affiliate edition,
we have added Kalamazoo. You just heard us talking to
Ovic Roy, who is a University of Michigan grad, and
we have now added yet another station. We continue to
just roll all of these up wk ZO AM five
ninety FM one oh six point nine FM, and that
(35:31):
is in Kalamazoo, Michigan. So all over Michigan people signing
up and beginning to listen all every single day from
twelve to three Eastern. We appreciate all of you listening
everywhere as we are just about I was asking about
this on one of our calls, about to hit over
five hundred affiliates, which is a pretty incredible number, with
(35:54):
more and more of those affiliates coming on board in
the near future. So we thank everybody who's signing up.
And if we are not yet on in your city
or your region, there's probably a very good chance that
at some point in the next year we will be
based on how the momentum is going, which is all
very positive, and that's thanks to you guys listening, also
downloading the podcast, consuming this so many different ways that's
(36:17):
because of you, and we come back, Buck. We got
a couple of funny stories to dive into. They have
changed the dress code in the Senate to fit John
Fetterman because evidently can't be bothered to wear something other
than shorts and a hoodie. Also, we tease this, but
it is pretty crazy that there is a fighter jet
(36:38):
missing somewhere in South Carolina. We have no idea where
it has ended up, and maybe we even need to
talk about this. A war in Bobert controversy is everywhere
associated with her in what was it the Beetlejuice play
in the Denver area.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, I haven't followed this one closely, but yes, I
didn't even know Beetlejuice was a stave.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I didn't know it was a play either,
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast. Well Good Now, number two, Monday Edition,
Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. We hope all of you
had fantastic weekends. And I had two birthday parties to celebrate.
Both of them went well. So I now have a
nine year old and a thirteen year old in addition
(00:22):
to the fifteen year old. So happy birthday to Lincoln
and Nash. We had a good time, went and watched
a football game, ran around, had a lot of pizza,
a lot of cake, as one would imagine, and that
was a lot of fun. Buck. I know you continue
to be deep in the weeds of writing your book,
which is not as much fun. But this morning I'm
(00:42):
reading the Monday edition to Wall Street Journal, and I
think this is important because we've been talking about for
those of you missed the first hour, Hunter Biden suing
the irs. By the way, we're going to be joined
by Ovic Roy at one point thirty. He's fantastic, so
you can put that on the ray. And Buck, I
(01:02):
saw this story and it reminded me of a front
page New York Times story that ran I think back
in like March or April, and that story front page
I believe it was a Sunday edition in New York
Times made it known that Joe Biden was unhappy with
the progress of Merrick Garland and his Department of Justice
(01:26):
as it pertained to investigations of Donald Trump. And shortly
thereafter there was the appointment of Jack Smith as the
Special counsel and then boom, boom boom, suddenly you get
federal charges in both South Florida and in and in DC.
And that was not coincidental. It was Joe Biden speaking
(01:49):
through the media to his Attorney general in a way
that he could not miss it. Today headline on the
front page, well the fourth page of the Wall Street
Journal probe's ad strain between President and Attorney General. And
I thought this was really interesting, Buck, because I remember
(02:11):
we were talking about last week. I wonder what the
relationship now is like between Merrick Garland and Joe Biden.
And the opening paragraph here says, the already frosty relationship
between President Biden and his Attorney General Merrick Garland is
now in a deep freeze. That's the opening paragraph of
(02:32):
their piece, Respect and Admiration among White House aids for
Garland has shifted for some into resignation and distrust. They
point to Garland having appointed not just a special counsel
to investigate Trump, but two others as well, one looking
into Biden and another into Hunter. Some Biden aides have
(02:57):
said they see Garland's handling of the in querries as
driven less by dispassionate pursuit of justice than by a
punctiliest desire to give the appearance that sensitive investigations are
walled off from political pressure. People familiar with the matter
say these Aids then Buck point out that they're upset
(03:21):
that the Biden classified documents investigation has not occurred, and
then buried down here at the end is adding to
the fraud relationship between the Justice Department and the White House.
Special Counsel Robert Her, remember him, Buck, We haven't heard
about Special Counsel Robert Her since he was appointed. That
is the guy who's looking into the Biden classified do
(03:42):
Biden documents was a total non event. But he's been
negotiating with Biden's lawyers, according to this story, for weeks
over an interview with the President, and they are unhappy
about how those negotiations have gone. All right, So do
you buy into this idea that the way that Biden
(04:06):
chooses to speak about Merrick Garland is actually through the media.
He knows everybody's going to read this, and that this
is designed to put pressure on Merrick Garland and basically say,
the White House is upset with you. Do you think
this is? You don't buy this? So what do you think?
What's the what's the impetus behind this article in your mind?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Then the impetus in my mind is And maybe I'm
I might be giving Democrats too much credit here, but
I think this is meant to give the impression that
Biden so upset that this super tough do OJ is
going after his son, and that it's out of his
(04:47):
hands now. And I think the fix is still in.
I think that the fix has been in all along here.
It's just Hunter is such a screw up. I mean,
Hunter is such a walking felony that it's become more challenging.
And the House Republicans have played a major role in this. Remember,
if the laptop isn't left right before, or the laptop
(05:08):
story she said doesn't come out right before the election,
if the laptop isn't left at that repair shop. None
of this ever really comes out right, Yeah, none of
this ever becomes a thing, correct. So this is like,
you know, when I point this out to people, I mean,
if I remember correctly, with Hillary Clinton, there was something
in the the Benghazi emails, the Bengazi hearings they saw
and then this is how they figured out that Hillary
(05:30):
had some So as reckless as Hillary's email scheme was,
she almost got away with it. Right now, I sound
like the guy at the end of the Scooby Doo
cartoon and like it wasn't for you, gosh.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Darn kids, I would have gotten away with it. But
she almost got away with it entirely scot free.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
The whole scam, which was just meant to make sure
that she had control overall communications, couldn't be foid because
of all the corruption that the Clinton Foundation. It was
a pay for play scheme was engaged in, and with Hunter,
I think he almost got away with it. So bringing
this back to you're asking me what i'd thing's going
on here, Merrick Garland appointed somebody who's not even legitimate
(06:05):
within DOJ's own regulations to be the special counselor to
Hunter Biden, who's a Hunter Biden partisan basically who had
been running the scam investigation beforehand, and Merrick Garland has
effectively bent over backwards to have the appearance of propriety
for the purposes of all things Hunter Biden, while doing
everything possible behind the scenes to actually scuttle any real
(06:28):
accountability for the Democrat president's son. So to me, I
think this is the Oh he's been so tough on
the Bidens that Merrick Garland, you know, think of the
sourcing from him he's been Because what's the benefit of
going against Merrick Garland in public this way? I don't
(06:48):
see it from the Democrat perspective. If anything, you'd want
to pressure him privately. So I think this is all
for show. That's my I think this is a show
to make it seem like Joe Biden so worried about
what's going on with this song because this big, mean
attorney general is going after him.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I'm not buying it. I think it's I know, I
think that's a very valid perspective you could have. And
if that's true, then the Wall Street Journal reporters of
this article got played right, because that if they are
putting out a message that is not actually rooted in truth.
(07:26):
Then they are being played to do what you're saying,
which is try to provide cover because it makes it
sound like, oh, Biden's really upset, but the reality is
he's not upset at all. And then in which case
they're writing a falsehood. But it makes it look like
Merrick Garland is independent because he's actually giving Merrick Garland
(07:48):
the cover here because he's claiming, oh, Merrick Garland is
being so tough on Joe Biden. Right, So it's it's
basically the opposite of the way that the story is conveyed.
It's more of a think about k than it is
a criticism.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
People will use that. You know, they'll use this phrase
to influence and to inform. Right, there's there's two things
you can think of simultaneously. It's not just to tell
someone something, it's to tell them something for a specific purpose.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And Biden. This is what the article says. Quote.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Some Biden aids have said they see Garland's handling of
the inquiries and the Biden family has driven less by
dispassionate pursuit than by punk what you read, punctilious desire.
Those aids point out that prosecutors yadaya YadA. What Biden
aids Clay are talking to the Wall Street Journal. Think
about that for a second too, right, who who.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Like to me this is play.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It all goes to, you know, Hunter, Biden's bringing the
indictment or not indictment.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
DA lawsuit against the I R S.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And now all look at how rough the attorney general's
relationship is with the president and all this stuff to
create this completely false premise that things are actually uh
you know that that that the system is working against
Hunter and the and that there's not effectively a get
out of jail free card waiting for him.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
At the end of this.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I mean that what White House says are gonna talk
to the Wall Street the Wall Street Journal, they know
is basically opposition media. I mean, the Wall Street Journal
reporters would disagree with that, but you know it's a
right of center paper. So I see this as as
they're meant. They're trying to influence as well as informed.
That is how I see this this article, and I
just know it's.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Interesting and I could see that argument the opening paragraph again,
the already frosty relationship between President Biden and his Attorney
General Merrick Garland is now in a deep freeze. Why
is it frosty?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But let me ask this question, what what is Merrik
Arland supposed to do?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What is I think they say it's frosty because he
appointed again. It's an interesting question. I think he's fascinated
by this, not to a point space.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
He waited and waited they were finding classified documents in
the corvette next to the old tennis rackets, and I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That the whole thing is crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
He has been holding out for the Bidens at every step.
He The Bidens want him on that wall, Clay, they
need him on that wall. The notion that Merrick Garland
is like why it up cleaning up the mess here
of the Biden White House is absurd. And that's why
when I see this piece, I look at it, I go,
(10:26):
why would anyone in the Biden orbit right now, going
this election year present this to the Wall Street Journal.
They're definitely not gonna fire Merrick Garland, right, there's no,
he can't do it, right, So what really is the
play here? And if it's in a deep freeze, is
this gonna make the relationship better?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
No?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So I think this is really interesting. I think that
it's possible. This is spy stuff. Clay. I'm going full
see and I'm analyzing because I see this story and
I'm like, this is a Monday Morning story. That's a
really strong opening paragraph. I see the story and I think, so,
why would it be in a d freeze. Let's pretend
(11:06):
that it is. Let's pretend that they're correct and that
they are not getting along. I think it would be
that the Biden administration has finally embarrassed Merrick Garland to
such an extent. Let me give you a couple of
examples of that. When they got the sweetheart deal for
Hunter Biden. Do you know what they did? They invited
(11:27):
Merrick Garland and Hunter to that. I think it was India.
At the state dinner. There's only like one hundred and
fifty people or whatever it is there, and you've got
your Attorney general mingling with the president's son that he
just gave a get out of jelfree I can see
Merrick Garland saying that is reckless. They put me in
a really bad position. I think the way that the
(11:48):
thing the hearing went down with Judge Noryeika. Even if
you are doing the dirty work of the client, which
you could argue Merrick Garland has been there is a
point where you moved from advocate to shameless partisan. And
I wonder if Merrick Garland believes that the Biden administration
(12:10):
has put him into the role of shameless partisan and
he's unhappy and uncomfortable with it. That's the only reason
I could see it be in deep freeze.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I think Merrick Garland has wholeheartedly embraced his role as
shameless partisan.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Let's not forget Merrick Garland.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
His DOJ was involved in the threat that parents pose
by objective get itchool.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
He's a disaster.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
He's as an Attorney general, and I think a lot
of people even years ago, I remember speaking to Andy
McCarthy about this, back when he was back when Merrick
Garland was up for that Obama appointed Supreme Court seat
if it could get through the Senate didn't get through,
and they were all telling us, and even in some
conservative if I remember correctly pardoned me Andy if I'm wrong,
but he said that Merrick was.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
A pretty pretty middle of the road guy.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And since then, since he's been Attorney General, everyone on
the right I know has said this guy is a hack,
and this guy is a scoundrel. And so it's with
that in mind that I see this as I mean,
to the point that you're making, is it possible that
they've pushed him so like people do have a breaking point,
there is a break Even lib media journals we've discussed this,
have their guys. I'll lie for you, but I won't
(13:21):
abjectly humiliate myself to my own audience for you. Right,
there's a line that they won't necessarily willingly go past.
They'll go past it, but they'll they'll whine about it.
But for me, I still see this as White House
aids trying to create the perception of the public's mind
that justice will be done here about Hunter Biden, when
there's plenty of indicators that the furthest possible thing is going.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
To be the end. So your take is an interesting one.
It's that the Wall Street Journal reporters got played. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Because I don't see why would these aids give the
Wall Street Journal this story at this time if it's true.
How many other times have we seen Biden White House
aides come forward to give what could be I don't
think it is, but could be damaging information about the regime.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I can't remember the last time that happened. No, I mean,
I see this, And the other question I would have
is from an editorial perspective, did the editors question it too?
Because it's not on the front page. So when I
read it, I was like, oh, this is interesting. They
put it on page four, like if they truly thought
they had a big scoop about discord between Biden and
(14:29):
his attorney general. That feels like to me, a you know,
a one top of the top of the fold story.
So I'm curious on that too.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Just putting it out there, folks, I think this could
have This could have been a stealth operation, a propaganda
mission through the through the journal life.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Well, we'll continue to watch this one. I just I
don't see if.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
You're in a reality based world, Clay, if you're Joe Biden,
you are thanking Merrick Garland every day for doing every
possible to give Hunter every opportunity to completely escape without
any consequences. I mean, short of I don't know what
I wonder, like, what else could he have possibly done
at this point? Remember the prosecutors tried to get that
(15:15):
deal through. Yeah, the federal prosecutors tried to give Hunter
Biden a deal. I mean that was like an Epstein
level deal. For those of you who know about the
original Epstein deal with the FEDS that actually cost a
Trump appointee his job and the Trump administration from when
he was US attorney. I believe it was a cost. Well,
I gotta check in the name, but it was the
(15:36):
most sweetheart deal imaginable. So anyway, we'll watch this one.
I'm curious aline. Cyber thieves are always evolving and have
gotten a lot more sophisticated, and with AI, or artificial intelligence,
now being available to all, you're that much more vulnerable
to their crimes. AI technology allows cyber thieves to create photos, videos,
and voice recordings of you or someone you might know
(15:57):
that are almost impossible to distinguish from reality. It's important
to understand how cybercrime and identity theft are affecting our lives.
Your personal information gets exposed so often, making it very
easy for a cyber criminal to steal your online identity.
Protecting your identity can be easy with LifeLock. Their systems
monitor online transactions and actions like new account openings.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
If you do become a victim of identity.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to
fix it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
That's going to be very helpful when you need it most.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
No one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all
transactions at all businesses, but it's easy to help protect
yourself with LifeLock. Join now save twenty five percent off
your first year with my name Buck as the promo code.
Call one eight hundred LifeLock or go online to LifeLock
dot com and use promo code Buck for twenty five
percent off.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Helping you separate truth from fiction every single weekday to
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
People are really concerned about the cost of well living
these days.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
The cost that's going by your day to day.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Life inflation still stubbornly high, soft landing for the economy
looking less and less likely. What does that mean, Well,
a lot of people have different opinions on that. But
how does healthcare and specifically the remnants or the remaining
components of Obamacare play into all of this. It could
(17:19):
be something that really becomes important. I think in the
twenty twenty four election. Healthcare is generally one of the
top issues. Clay, We've got our friend Ovic Royal be
joining us here in just a few minutes to talk about.
Is healthcare getting even more expensive than it has been,
which is too expensive to begin.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
With, no doubt, especially when you consider the results that
we get on healthcare in this country are actually not
as beneficial as other countries. The data reflects that we
could cut basically half of all health care spending and
not change outcome at all. I'm curious what Ovic would
say about all that. He's a smart guy also right
about a lot of the things related to COVID. I'm
(17:58):
curious what he thinks about the full post mortem for
our COVID response. Thinking about upgrading the sheets in your
home as temperature starts to get a little bit cooler.
My Pillow having a closeout sell on their per cow sheets.
Sheets are amazing. You'll want to roll all over them,
not get out of bed right now, available in a
wide variety of colors and sizes, all included in this
closeout sale. Queen size sheets regularly cost ninety bucks. Right
(18:22):
now they're thirty five dollars with our names Clay and
Buck as your promo code. The MyPillow perkal sheets made
to accommodate thick mattresses, made even more comfortable with a
mattress topper, which you can also get at MyPillow. Just
go to my pillow dot com click on the radio
listeners special square to get to my Pillow. Percalw sheets
for as low as twenty five bucks for a twin set,
(18:43):
thirty five bucks for a queen set. Enter the promo
code Clay and Buck. You can also call eight hundred
seventy nine to two thirty two sixty nine for this
great special that's my pillow dot Com. Use the code
Clay and Buck. Slee Travis and Buck Sexton on the
front lines of truth. Welcome back in Clay Travis buck
(19:05):
Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.
We're joined now by Ovik Roy, president of the Foundation
for Research on Equal Opportunity Policy, editor at Forbes. It's
done fantastic work for a variety of different issues. I
think the last time I saw you, Ovic was down
last year in Austin for the Alabama Texas game, which
is a lot of fun. And I think you're still
(19:27):
in aton where your organization is based. But you're a
big Michigan Wolverine fan. So before we dive into healthcare
policy issues, how would you assess we just got a
brand new affiliate in Detroit nine ten am. We're blowing
up all over the state of Michigan. How would you
assess the University of Michigan start to the season.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Well, those Lions fans are going nuts in Detroit. That's
been a hot topic out there. But yeah, I think
you know, so far the non conference schedule, I can't
say that Michigan has overperformed. There's been a I think
a lot of lack of chemistry on the offensive line.
The perimeter blocking in the run game hasn't been great,
whether it's the tight ends or particularly the wide receivers.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They did a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Better on that against Bowling Green, so that was a
good sign. Korm seemed to get his legs back, but
then JJ McCarthy had a couple of brain dead throws
and very unlike him with flashbacks the TCU. So they
obviously have to get that cleaned up. But they've got
all the pieces. Look, they have great offensive line in theory,
they have great two great running backs, first round caliber
(20:31):
running backs. They have a first round caliber quarterback. They
have fast receivers, they have great tight ends. On defense,
their defensive line is awesome Georgia level perhaps, and their
secondary is banged up a little bit but looking pretty good.
So they've got they've got all the pieces to go
very far, but they just have to put it all together,
(20:51):
and they haven't done that yet. And the Rutgers next
week is going to be an underrated test because Rutgers
is looking pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'm gonna do the nerve here and I'm gonna ask
you about healthcare policy if I can.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I know you guys are having fun.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I was thinking of you all of that with that
Alabama Texas game though the week before last, because that
would have been a fun one to see. I bet
you guys if you were there, I had a great time.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That was a phenomenal I was a phenomenal game, especially
because it was almost such a big upset. But a
lot of people out there have too much that they're
paying for healthcare premiums, healthcare visits across the board. You know,
I pulled this up right beforehand, Ovic, and I know
you're a healthcare policy expert, have been for many years
(21:34):
that affordability of healthcare when you average it between Democrat
and Republican in most of the major polls, that you
can pull for the last well, probably a long time.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It's certainly in the last twelve.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Monthslity of affordability of healthcare is a top two or
three issue, and poll after poll for people right now
usually just behind inflation and jobs. Those are the ones
that inflation, jobs, and then affordability of healthcare pops up
right alongside them.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I thought Obamacare was supposed to fix all that. What happened?
What happened? How are things getting more expensive? Ovic?
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah? They called it the Affordable Care Act, right, and
healthcare in fact Obama you'll remember this, Buck and Clay
you might as well. In two thousand and eight, when
Obama was campaigning for president, he promised repeatedly on the
campaign trail, and I've got the video to prove it,
that his plan would reduce the average family's healthcare premiums
(22:28):
by twenty five hundred dollars per year. He kept repeating
that promise, which came out of a random, you know,
liqive back of the envelope estimate from a couple of
Harvard professors who were kind of guessing basically. But he
ran with that and instead healthcare premiums for the average
consumer average family four went up by twenty five hundred
(22:49):
dollars for a family for in year one, and it's
only gotten worse over time. And now we have to
say that healthcare was expensive before Obamacare. Its prices were
growing faster than inflation before Obamacare. Obamacare made it worse
if you had to buy insurance on your own, so
if you weren't getting it from your employer, you weren't
(23:10):
getting it from the government, you were shopping for it.
And the old what was called the individual market for
health insurance, it used to be a lot cheaper. Under Obamacare,
those premiums doubled and tripled, and they've continued to go up.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So, Ovik, this is part and parcel of I think
a failure of the American healthcare system. And you tell
me if I'm wrong here. But the data that I
have seen suggests that if we had half as much
medical treatment, there would be no change really in the
amount of years of average life that are added, right,
(23:44):
In other words, the quality of the healthcare results would
not change with half of the amount of healthcare spending.
Do you buy that or do you think that's an
exaggerated analysis of our current system.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I do buy that there's stuff we do at the
end of life that you know, to kind of be heroes.
That may not make much of a difference. But the
problem is it's really hard. It's easy to look at
that in hindsight and say, oh, we shouldn't have done that,
or we shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
That didn't work.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
But you don't know until you try it, right, And
who's going to tell that seventy five year old or
that eighty year old don't do that, don't do that
thing that might save my life. Right, So that's a
hard thing to solve. But what you can solve, and
what's clearly true in the United States, is that unit
price of every piece of healthcare we deliver to people
(24:35):
is way higher here. Most people know that what you
pay for prescription drugs in the US is two to
five x what it is in other countries. That's true
of hospital care too, the average hospital stay. In the US,
we actually are very good at getting people out of
the hospital. A lot of the surgeries. You know, when
I tore my achilles five years or seven years ago,
it was done in a day. I was in and
out of the hospital a day. So in a lot
(24:56):
of other countries, that's a five day operation, or you're
in the hospital for seven days. So we're really good
at getting people in and out of the hospital, which
would save a lot of money. The problem is, each
day we spent in an American hospital costs five times
as it does five times as much as it does
in Switzerland or Germany or Scandinavi or any other.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Wealthy country that you can think of.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
So the problem in America is that the price of
the healthcare that we deliver is way higher than it
is elsewhere. And the reason for that is because we've
made eighty years of policy mistakes at the federal level
that have incentivized drug companies and hospitals and doctors and
lab test companies to charge you more and more every
(25:36):
year because you don't pay directly for those services. You know,
you think you bought insurance, your employer bought it for you,
and you have no sense of what anything costs or
what you paid for anything because you didn't directly pay
for it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So what are the parties offering right now for Democrat
Republic in twenty twenty four healthcare solutions? One thing I
asked Clay about, and I was talking about this off aras, like,
does anything even have.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
A healthcare plan that they're talking about right now? What
is it and what should it be? Maybe more importantly, yeah,
so far, not much.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
So Biden hasn't really talked about much on healthcare other
than you know, continuing to bail out Obamacare with more subsidies.
They did pass the Inflation Reduction Act Medicare prescription drug
price negotiation provisions last year, which I actually think is
reasonably good policy, and I can get into that if
(26:31):
you want so. I'm different from a lot of Republicans
on that particular piece. I think it's actually the pro
free market thing to do to let Medicare negotiate drug
prices to a limited degree. But if I talked to
the Republican field, there's not a lot at all now
that could change. You know, it's still early in the campaign.
It's possible that you'll see some of the candidates in
(26:53):
the Republican field talk about healthcare more as the as
the campaign goes along, but as of now, we don't
have a lot of details from the candidates. The closest
we've gotten, I think is Nikki Haley, who said at
the last debate that she's very concerned about the federal
deficit and debt and flagged healthcare is one of the
causes of that.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
But she didn't get into a lot of details as
to what her plan would be.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
So how do we fix it?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Well, you know, at my think tank, the Foundation for
Research on Equal Opportunity, we've talked about how to fix
it for a long time. In fact, there's a bill
that's been introduced in Congress in both the House and
the Senate based on our work called the Fair Care Act,
and it's the main sponsors in the House are a
Congressman from Arkansas named Bruce Westerman and one from Indiana
named Jim Banks. And then in the Senate it's an
(27:42):
Indiana Senator named Mike Brawn. And basically, the idea of
the Fair Care Act is pretty simple. Let's make healthcare
less expensive by unleashing the forces of competition innovation so
that people are competing for your business as a consumer.
Let's make sure that we're only subsidizing people who really
need to help. So one of the real things that
(28:03):
we do that's a mistake in America is you and
I pay taxes, and all your listeners pay taxes, so
that Warren Buffett and Mitt Romney can get some government
subsidized healthcare.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Why is that?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Why don't we actually subsidize healthcare only for the people
who truly struggle to afford it, whether it's because they're vulnerable,
they're sick, or they're low income or even middle income
people who just can't afford it. And let's stop subsidizing
health care for rich people. If we just stop subsidizing
healthcare for rich people and allow people to buy the
insurance they want to buy instead of having it forced
(28:34):
upon them by their employer or the government, you'd unleash
enormous synergies in terms of savings. Because at the end
of the day, what we all know about everything in
life is that if you're spending your own money, you're
going to be a lot more careful about how you
spend it. But if somebody else is spending somebody else's
money on your behalf, no one's going to care how
it's spent. And that's what allows everyone in the healthcare
(28:56):
industry to raise prices on you. So the left wing
solution to that is the government run it even more right,
have price controls, restrict access to expensive things, all the
things that you see in all those single payer countries.
But there's a free market way to do this, which
is you should control the healthcare dollars that are spent
on your behalf. If you spend the money, just like
on everything else you do in life, you're going to
(29:17):
spend it wisely. And yes, let's make sure that we
help the people who truly truly need the help.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
But that's a fraction of who we're subsidizing today.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Ovik, easy question. Example of that. I've had three kids.
Fortunately they have all had relatively smooth deliveries. We went
and toured all of the places in Nashville where you
have children, you know, hospitals. None of them could tell
me what it was going to cost. They could tell
me that they were going to have Wi Fi. They
(29:45):
could tell me that they were going to have bamboo floors.
They could tell me that we were going to have
private waiting rooms. None of them could tell me what
having a baby was going to cost. And I just
I couldn't gain ask that. When you would tour, it
gets his discretionary right. I could choose to go to
this hospital or that hospital. In every other facet there
would be price competition. They couldn't even tell me the cost, right.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
And there's no law preventing them from telling you the cost,
they just have no incentive to do so. How crazy
of all the government distortions. It's crazy. And if you
showed up.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Observabick, if you showed up to buy a car and
you just walked onto the car lot and no one
told you what a car costs, it would be madness.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
That's basically what happens oftentimes with healthcare, even when it's
a discretionary time. You know, it's not like this was
an emergency. You can pick where you're.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Going absolutely, and so uh.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
You know, one of the things I tell conservative Republicans
all the time is you hear some people say it's
not the federal government's job to fix healthcare and make
it more affordable for you. I understand that sentiment. But
what people need to understand is the reason healthcare is
so stupid and expensive and opaque to the patient and
the consumer is because the federal government has been messing
it up for eighty years. And so it is important
(31:03):
for members of Congress and senators to fix the things
that the federal government has messed up. That Congress has
messed up about healthcare for eighty years, and price transparency
is part of it. Not just price transparency, so you
as a patient or as a parent can know how
much it's going to cost you to get your baby delivered.
But one of the things that the Trump administration did
that I think is a really positive development that's going
(31:25):
to improve healthcare over the next several years is the
Trump administration passed some a series of regulations that force
insurers and hospitals to be transparent about the prices they
negotiate with each other. So if Blue Cross or United
or at N or whichever insurance plan you have, has
negotiated a certain price for that delivery of a baby
(31:47):
at a particular hospital, now that has to be disclosed
to the public. Now the hospital has been dragging their
feet and disclosing that data, and that's an area where
the government has to be more, has to do more
to force the transparency rules. But once you have that
data out there, then as an employer, you can see
whether or not your insurer has done a good job
of negotiating on your behalf. Because sometimes insurers are lazy,
(32:09):
they don't actually do a good job of negotiating on
your behalf, because actually, if healthcare prices are higher and
their operating margin is five percent of a bigger number,
they make more money. They actually make more money if
healthcare is more expensive in a paradoxical way. So as
a business, or as a consumer, or as an individual,
what you need to know is whether those insurers are
doing a good job negotiating on your bealth. And one
(32:31):
way for you to do that is to pay for
the premium yourself instead of having someone pay the premium
for you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
So another big reform.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
And part of the Fair Care Act, is, instead of
what we do now, which is given a big tax
break to the employer, if the employer buys health insurance
for you, why not give the money to you to
buy the health insurance that you want to buy. Then
you really unleash these forces of competition, just like the
exists in other parts of the economy. And that's what
we got to do if we want to not have
(32:57):
a socialized system. I think the thing that Republicans do
that concerns me is they're so scarred by the experience
of twenty seventeen, not failing to repeal in a place
Obamacare in seventeen that they just don't want to touch it.
They're like, you know what, we tried doing healthcare in seventeen.
We got our fingers burned on the stove. We don't
want to deal with them again. And that's a mistake
because healthcare keeps getting more expensive. Just as you said,
(33:18):
the polls show that it's a top concern of voters.
And if Republicans and Conservatives don't have a reform that's
going to work, then people are going to turn to Democrats.
And we know what Democrats are going to support. They're
going to support public options, they're going to support single payer,
they're going to support removing even further the role of
the private sector in healthcare.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Ovic Roy, president of the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity.
Ovic Always a pleasure, sir, Thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Great to see both.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
You're part of an audience that has plenty of entrepreneurs
listening in those men and women who are the source
of so many jobs created here in America. One of
those entrepreneurs is the founder of Chalk, a company that's
become known for their best in class supplements Chalk full
of natural ingredients. Chalk supplements are formulated for both men
and women. You can read all about their carefully curated
ingredients and what they can do for you online at
(34:06):
Chalk dot com spelled cchoq. For example, Chalk's Mail Vitality
Stack helps men realize their full energy potential. The leading
ingredient in Chalk's Mail Vitality Stack has been proven to
replenish diminished amounts of testosterone most men experience, and it
can increase it by twenty percent over three months time.
Look Chalk dot com. Choq dot COM's where you want
(34:28):
to go. You can save thirty five percent on the
Chalk subscription you choose when you use my name Buck
in your purchase process. That's chalkcchoq dot com. Use my
name Buck for thirty five percent.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Off, Download and use then you clayan Buck app. Listen
to the program live, catch up on any part of
the show you might have missed. Find every podcast as
their release, then listen. Find the Clay and Buck app
in your app store and make it part of your day.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We are not tired of winning here on the code play,
and we have another affiliate win to bring to everybody.
Thence It's in a state that is near and dear
to your heart up in Michigan, mister Clay Travis.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Tell everybody where they can listen. Now our newest affiliate edition,
we have added Kalamazoo. You just heard us talking to
Ovic Roy, who is a University of Michigan grad, and
we have now added yet another station. We continue to
just roll all of these up wk ZO AM five
ninety FM one oh six point nine FM, and that
(35:31):
is in Kalamazoo, Michigan. So all over Michigan people signing
up and beginning to listen all every single day from
twelve to three Eastern. We appreciate all of you listening
everywhere as we are just about I was asking about
this on one of our calls, about to hit over
five hundred affiliates, which is a pretty incredible number, with
(35:54):
more and more of those affiliates coming on board in
the near future. So we thank everybody who's signing up.
And if we are not yet on in your city
or your region, there's probably a very good chance that
at some point in the next year we will be
based on how the momentum is going, which is all
very positive, and that's thanks to you guys listening, also
downloading the podcast, consuming this so many different ways that's
(36:17):
because of you, and we come back, Buck. We got
a couple of funny stories to dive into. They have
changed the dress code in the Senate to fit John
Fetterman because evidently can't be bothered to wear something other
than shorts and a hoodie. Also, we tease this, but
it is pretty crazy that there is a fighter jet
(36:38):
missing somewhere in South Carolina. We have no idea where
it has ended up, and maybe we even need to
talk about this. A war in Bobert controversy is everywhere
associated with her in what was it the Beetlejuice play
in the Denver area.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, I haven't followed this one closely, but yes, I
didn't even know Beetlejuice was a stave.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I didn't know it was a play either,
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.