June 14, 2023 • 36 mins
Former Vice President Mike Pence joins Clay and Buck to discuss the Trump indictment, why he's running for president, and repeatedly refuses to commit to pardoning Donald Trump. C&B react strongly to Pence's refusal to say if he'll pardon Trump. C&B take calls on the Pence interview.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in our number three Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.
For those of you out there following this news, the
FED has decided not to raise interest rates in their
most recent meeting. That news just coming down in the
last three or four minutes, so mercifully, at least for now,
interest rates paused. We're joined now by a candidate for
(00:26):
the twenty twenty four Republican presidential nomination. He is former
Vice President Mike Pence. Appreciate you joining us today.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Sir Clay Travis buck Sexton. Thanks for having me on. Guys,
it's an honor to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thanks all right, so we are pleased to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
And I got to begin with the question I said,
and you may have heard it when Ron DeSantis was
honest right with us right after he grad right after
he announced, I said, I think you need to consider
announcing that you will pardon Donald Trump in the event
he has charged. President Trump has now been charged. Yeah,
(01:01):
I mean even yes, convicted. But if you are president
in January of twenty twenty five, I think you would
agree this is a political prosecution. Why am I wrong
to think that it is important for whoever the Republican
president is in the event that it is not Trump,
to pardon him. And why would you not want to
pardon him.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, first off, let's let me take a step back,
but I'm going to answer your question. Yesterday was a
sad day for this country. I mean, the very specter
of a former president of the United States in the dock,
in the court indicted. It's nothing I thought i'd ever
live to see in this country. And I think that
(01:44):
millions of Americans we're downhearted about what we saw. But
in this country, first principles is what you guys talk
about all the time. No one's above the law, and
every one of us is entitled to the presumption of innocent, innocent,
and to a proven guilty.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So that's where we start. And former President Trump's entitled
the Presumption of Innocence. Now I have read the indictment.
I would tell you all, as someone that spent years
on the International Relations Committee, I had the highest level
of clearance when I was your vice president. These are
serious charges. I mean, the handling of classified information bears
(02:22):
upon our national security, the safety of our armed forces,
and I will just say to you, as I've said
another place, I can't defend what has been alleged, but
the former president is entitled to his day in court.
And frankly, after seven years of politicization at the Department
of Justice that I lived through, I was in that
(02:44):
campaign in twenty sixteen when the head of the FBI
said that he was not going to bring charges against
Hillary Clinton for much the same facts that have now
resulted in an indictment against Donald Trump. I was there
in the White House during two and a half year
years of the Russia hoax. I saw the big media,
big tech, you know, collude to essentially suppress the Hunter
(03:07):
Biden laptop story. All the things you guys get covered
with great distinction. But you know, so it's hard for
me to believe that politics did not play a role here.
And it's one of the reasons why last week I
called on the Attorney General, Merrick Garland, to come before
the American people and talk about the reasons for this decision,
(03:27):
to answer questions about the basis of it, because the
American people have lost confidence in the Department of Justice.
And what I will tell you is that should I
have the great privilege of being president of the United States.
We're going to restore confidence in the Department of Justice.
We're going to clean house in all the senior offices.
We're going to put men and women of unimpeachable integrity
(03:52):
in those positions, and we're going to restore the confidence
of the American people in equal treatment under the law.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
As part of that, the Vice President pens Can, I
ask you, would you consider the appointment of a special
counsel to look into what seems to be now increasingly
obvious and raising corruption affecting the Bidens.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Guys, why would we wait for that? I'm demanding it now.
I demanded it on national television this morning. Look, I
want to see the Department of Justice bring equal vigor
to the investigation into allegations concerning President Biden, concerning members
of his family. I'd like to see them bring equal
(04:35):
vigor to the investigation into President Biden's handling of classified documents.
I mean, some of these documents dayed back decades, not
just to when he was Vice president, but when he
was a member of the United States Senate. That's what
I want to see, equal treatment under the laws, that
everybody gets the same everybody gets the same treatment. I'm
going to continue to call on that, but that you
(04:58):
know that the Lady Justine, this is blind and we
ought to be able to demand as Americans that the
law be upheld, but that it'd be evenly and equally
applied to everyone. And I will tell you maybe you know,
I got two members of my immediate family that serve
in the armed forces of the United States. My sons
a captain in the Marine Corps. My son in law
(05:19):
is a lieutenant in the Navy. And I will never
diminish the importance of protecting our nation's secrets. But all
that being said, you know, as I said, I, having
lived through all these years of politicization, I promise you,
if I have the opportunity to be president of the
United States, we're in a clean house. Give the American
(05:40):
people a fresh start, and restore confidence in the rule
of law.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So so, Vice President of penns.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
This is the most basic question, but I think in
a lot of ways it would be the most important
one for you, which is you served under President Trump.
Why are you running, Why do you think you would
do a better job, or what would you be doing differently?
As a matter of policy from what a lot of
the listeners feel like was a overall very successful first
four years of Trump.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Look, I'm incredibly proud of the record of the Trump
Pen's administration. I know there are some candidates in this
Republican primary who have taken to criticizing our record, but look,
I stand by it shoulder to shoulder every single day.
Other than the difficult time that we had at the
end that I spoke about in my announcement speech last week,
(06:25):
where I stood on the Constitution of the United States,
every single day I was there as we worked to
rebuild our military, revived our economy, we cut taxes, rollback regulations,
achieved energy independence, we secured our border, and we appointed
three of the justices to the Supreme Court of the
United States that gave America a new beginning for life.
I'm proud of that record, but I'm running because I
(06:47):
think this country's in a lot of trouble. I mean, frankly,
in two and a half years, President Joe Biden and
the Democrats have weakened America at home and abroad. And
I think those of us that have the experience, which
experience ranges not just from being Vice president but I
was governor of the state of Indiana, where we balanced budgets,
we doubled an educational choice program, We stood for life
(07:09):
and liberty. And also I was a leading House Conservative
for twelve years. I battled against the big spenders in
my own party. That was when I first came into
contact with the late and great Rush Limbaugh. He saw
me as a backbencher that was fighting against big government
Republicanism back in the day. And I would tay. I
(07:30):
just think those of us that have the experience and
those of us that had the proven commitment to the
conservative agenda that's carried us not just to Republican victories,
but to great victories for the American people over the
last fifty years, have an obligation to step forward. And
that's why my wife and I, after a great deal
of prayer and deliberations, announced our intention to seek the
(07:52):
Republican nomination for President of the United States. And any
one of your listeners all over the country that would
like to know more or even help us out, go
to Mike Pence twenty twenty four dot com.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
All right, we're talking to former Vice President Mike Pence,
running for president as the Republican contender here in the primary.
And I want to circle back to the first question
there because I don't think you directly answered it. So
let's presume you're fortunate enough take out of office January
twenty twenty five, you become the next president of the
United States. Donald Trump is convicted of what I think
(08:23):
you would agree are clearly to a large degree, political
based charges. He is facing time in prison, maybe they
even put handcuffs on him and walk him into a prison.
Would you pardon him from those federal charges?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Well, first off, these are serious charges, and as I said,
I can't defend what's been alleged, but the president does
deserve to make his defense. And I would say to
each one of you, Look, I've been a former governor,
I've actually granted pardons to people, and I take the
pardon authority very seriously. It's an enormously important power of
(09:00):
someone in an executive position, and I just think it's
premature of any conversation about that right now, guys, why
would you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But hold on, let me just ask you that because, look,
I think as a matter of principle, I think, as
a matter of principle, if you believe, as both Buck
and I do that Donald Trump is being prosecuted to
a large extent for political based reasons, something that has
never happened in the two hundred and forty plus year
history of the United States. That we are setting an
(09:28):
awful precedent here, and I think it's important to look
at this even before the case has taken place. You've
read the indictment. You know what the allegations are. They
are serious. But to me, what is gained by allowing
Donald Trump to be put in prison in the event
he was convicted, is we lose infinitely more by not
(09:49):
just taking a principled stand and saying, as a matter
of principle, this shouldn't happen.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I'm not going to allow it. To me.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
If you're the executive, you are the ultimate decider, with
all due respect. When you you aren't telling us what
your decision would be, I think you're dodging the question
and and frankly not stepping up on the on the
front of leadership, which in the past you've been willing
to do so to me, not answering as a no.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, look, number one, I don't think you know what
the president's defense is, do you. I mean, what are
the facts. I mean, look, we either believe in our
judicial process in this country or we don't. We either
stand by the rule of law we don't. I just
what I would tell you is, I think as someone.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
But what I'm hearing is you're find with Donald Trump
being put in prison, sir, and that to me, since
you were his vice president, feels pretty disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
I had a standard rule. I don't know about hypotheticals. Look,
we don't know what the president's defense here is. I
think he's entitled to make his defense, entitled to have
his day in court. And uh, look, let's you know,
let's take it one step at a time. But I
would just tell you that I I but if you.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Know that these are pulling charges and you do, this
is not this is not a difficult decision.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I think we've made.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I think we've gotten. I think we've gotten what we're
going to get here. In terms of an answer to
this one.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, I just think any I think any conclusion by
anyone running for the presidency of the United States that
would prejudge the facts in this case, or prejudge the
investigation into President Biden or his family, it's premature. Let's
let Let's let the process play out, Let's follow the facts,
and I promise you, as president of the United States,
(11:29):
I'll do just that.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
What would you do differently from either Trump or any
of the other Republicans running, sir? What where where do
you differentiate yourself? I mean, because for me, if you
feel like the four years under Trump were so great, well,
then why why run yourself? If if the guy who
was at the top of the ticket is running again,
you know what I mean? I mean, honestly, I'm curious
about that.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, it's a it's a great question. Look, you know,
I joined the Republican Party when Ronald Reagan was in
the White House. You guys are probably in great school
at the time ran for office the first time when
he was when he was actually in his last year
in office. I joined the Reagan Revolution. I'm some of
that believes that in a strong national defense, in American
(12:10):
leadership in the world. I think we are the leader
of the free world, the arsenal of democracy. And when
I hear the former president and others, frankly in this
race that are minimizing America's leading role in the world
and talking about pulling back or can't decide who should
win after Russia's unconscionable invasion into Ukraine. I push back
(12:34):
on that. I think we have an obligation to provide
the soldiers of Ukraine with the resources they need to
go and win that fight and repel the Russian invasion.
I also think that's the best way to send a
message to the Chinese that would diminish their military ambition. Secondly, look,
we are facing a debt crisis in this country the
likes of which we have never seen. We have a
(12:56):
national debt the size of our nation's economy for the
first time since World War II, and it's about the
increase by a factor of five times. If we're not
willing to engage the American public and bring principled and
compassionate reforms to the entitlements that are driving three quarters
of our national debt now, Joe Biden's policy is insolvency.
(13:19):
Though frankly, Donald Trump's policy is the same as Joe
Biden is. Neither one of them are even willing to
talk about the national debt, talk about bringing common sense
reforms of social security and medicare. I will, I have
been will continue to. Finally, Look, I'm pro life. I
don't apologize for it. I'm incredibly proud that our administration
appointed three of the justices that sent roversus way to
(13:42):
the ash heap of history where it belongs. We've got
this new era of life before us. And yet I
hear my former running mate talking about some pro life
measures being too harsh, suggesting that overturning Roe v. Wade
cost US elections in the midterm elections, and I see
other candidates beginning to shy away from the right to life. Look,
I believe the cause of life is the calling of
(14:05):
our time, and I'm going to continue to stand strong
with states around the country that are advancing protections to
the unborn. As President of the United States, I'll support
efforts to protect the sanctity of life at the federal
level as well.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Former President Vice President Mike Pence running for president. Appreciate
the time, sir.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Hey guys, thanks for having me on playing Buck.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
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They don't have the hutzpah, they don't have the testosterone,
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of them in the Biden White House. That's why we
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(15:38):
said Buck Sexton show.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Well, we just spoke to a Vice President Pence there.
We're getting a lot of comments from a lot of you.
Want to open up the lines to you eight hundred
two eight two two eight eight Q clearly not committing
to a pardon of Donald Trump, not not committing to it,
and not answering it one way or the Clay Will.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You got so fired up because I kept asking him
this same question. Buck, But I'm so fired up about this.
I think Mike Pence's campaign is over. I think he
just ended it in that interview because if your campaign,
let me just explain what my theory here, because I
think if your campaign is I'm the guy who will
stand on principle. I refuse to do what Donald Trump
(16:18):
wanted me to do on January sixth, because constitutionally I
didn't do it. I'll make the hard decisions and I
will stand on principle. I don't know how you can
stand on principle more than saying trying to put a
former president in prison for political reasons is wrong, and
I'll make the hard choice and keep him out of prison.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Book Book.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
He's he's the vice president of Trump, right, he's running
against Trump. That's never occurred in the history of our republic.
You want to talk about disloyalty, Okay, you asked him.
He's got an answer. He thinks they'll do a better job.
I don't agree personally, but he would let his former
president be put in handcuffs by Joe Biden and won't
(17:01):
tell us.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I won't let that happen. That's done to me.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
If they if they come after you, Clay, I promise
I'll part of you.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
That's what I'm saying. I hand hand to God right now,
hand on the Bible.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
If the Feds come after Clay with some politicized nonsense,
he's getting to pardon from president, but.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I'm not gonna let them put you in handcuffs and
and and and purp walk you into a prison. I
make that pledge to carry in your mom and dad
right now. He knew that question was coming, and my
mind is blown. We'll take some of your calls. Can
I just how does he not have an answer for that?
I mean the answer is basically, he's not gonna pardon him.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I mean, yes, this is why I'm just like that.
I think it's very clear. I think it's very clear
that you know he's he's not gonna wait. His answer,
to be fair is he won't give an answer on
this until we see the trial. That's his real answer.
But for a lot of us, it's what is that.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Just our BS already, like, I don't even need to
know the trial to know what I would do. That's
what leadership is. He's done. I think his campaign's over
Verizon AT and T T Mobile. If you're still with him,
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Save an additional fifty percent off your first month Welcomeout
getting Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. A lot of you
want to weigh in on our interview with Mike Pence,
which I think will soon be ricocheting around the interwebs
(19:11):
and the cable news networks and beyond, and I'll just
let you guys react Again. I've been pretty straightforward. I
would pardon Donald Trump if I were president of the
United States. I think the principle of it is important
to set that we don't try to put political candidates
in jail for political process based crimes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I think that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Mike Pence claims that he is a candidate of principle,
and he certainly claims that based on his behavior.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
On January sixth.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I think it's a matter of principle that you should,
if you're running as a Republican candidate, say that you
will pardon Donald Trump in the event that he's convicted.
I just don't see that as a difficult decision or choice.
And by the way, if you disagree, own it. I
think Pence sounded like a typical politician, and that's why
we kind of p on it. But a lot of
you want to weigh in. You can agree or disagree. Certainly,
(20:03):
the first amendments alive and well on this show. Who
is up first?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Here?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
JC and Cincinnati. I believe Jac. What do you think?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (20:12):
I couldn't agree with you more. On principle, I think
this interview you had with Pence was very revealing. You
could see right through him. I think he's completely out
of touch, and he's using tropes from the old Republican Party.
He's comparing himself to Ronald Reagan, which they all do,
which they have no right to do. They're hiding behind
(20:36):
right to life, They're hiding behind all kinds of things
in order to not answer questions. He's an old rhino
with McConnell and McCarthy, and you know, I'm just so
sick and tired of it. I'm tired of hearing these things.
I'm forty three years old, I'm the same age as
you guys, and his quipped about you being young and uh, well,
(21:00):
Ronald Reagan was in office is foolish and demeaning, and
I think he's got to go on principle. The principle
matter is these people are using the law and executing
in a way that's unlawful, and that's what we say
when we say no, that's wrong. He should be parted.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I think, thank you God.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I think do you think he was a little bit
rattled there, Buck, because when he said, you guys are
probably still in grade school. We were, We were young
when Ronald Reagan was president. Guess what, we also have
the balls to say we would pardon Trump unlike Pence.
So maybe age doesn't factor in that much with who's
got a better legacy of Reagan?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Marty in Florida. Yeah, what do you got for us?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Marty?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Hey, Hey clam Brook, Hey clam Book, I love your show.
I just wanted to weigh in on what just happened
with Mike Pence. I believe that Mike Pence actually does
his own grave and this wolf culture, what we're going
through right now. I believe that the wolf community will
starve him to the hand, to the bottom of the
bare bone. He just showed that he doesn't know how
(22:04):
to make a decision in relation to something that is
at a serious magnitude. If Trump asks him to be
his VP, how can you how can you turn your
back on somebody? How can you not be able to
make a decision? When the rest of the country, everybody,
even certain Democrats, even though they're not or they're not
(22:25):
exposed to it publicly, they even agree that this is political.
So the whole country is content that this was the
political prosecution. Accept the Biden regime, accept the Bidens, and
with that it should be a slam done. It's a
no brainer. So what Mike Fince just told me was
he don't deserve my vote, he don't want my vote,
and he and he's been a politician for way too long,
(22:47):
which is really what he just showed us is that
some of these people they've been on Capitol Hill way
too long. It's time for them to go home. And
we got to put an age limit or a tenure
on how long these people who can be in on
Capitol Hill. Because he shouldn't even have made the statement that, well, well,
when you guys were in school, well I was going
(23:08):
to with the rigging.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
That doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
What matters is can you can You can't do what
America needs in order to put us back on the
right track. And if you keep closed the door on
what the what the Democrats have done to Donald Trump
and the presidency of the United States of America, then
you're not the person we need to have in the
Oval office.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Marty and Florida thank you for calling in, but he
appreciate it. Marty's got a lot of fire, a lot
of passion that I could tell you is no really,
It's reflected in all the emails we're getting to and
people are very fired up right now.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I think that one of the challenges for anybody who look.
I know, we did get some we got some people
called last week just to rewind the tape for a second,
who were very positively disposed toward the former vice president.
We did get those calls. Remember that did happen? And
I just think, though, in what world is Donald Trump
sitting in a prison set well, based on what the
(24:02):
charges are, never mind even if they're true or not, like,
just based on the kind of things that they said happen.
We know what they're saying happened, and what world wild
Trump sitting in a cell. Be a good thing for
the country, be a fair thing, be a just thing.
That's that's the challenge to me. This is not a
difficult question.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And the fact, I mean, Eddie and New York, what
did you think, right of the Penn's response there, Oh.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, Howard did. How Howard and Hollywood Floor a lot
of fellow Floridians today. What's up, Howard Berts.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
I want to say one thing. I don't support Donald
Trump for president necessarily, but I really have issues with
what Mike Kent said. He's talking about the pencils principles
of democracy and there's no place in a democracy for
political persecution. So just for him to say he's, you know,
supporting the principles of democracies and not recognize that Meret
(24:56):
Stalin is going against all the principles about democracy. So
for him to not go against that and did not
be able to say I would, I would not, I
would call it. Trump to me says she's not really
with the times that it's not the right person for president.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Thank you, thank you, Howard.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I just say it also whenever I start hearing look
that the debt is super important, but no one really
you know, there are other things that feel more imminent
right now for the country to fix and more realistic
for the country to fix. It's a little bit like
remember we Paul played Paul Ryan, I think it was yesterday.
He said, you know, I don't really care about the
culture wars. I just want to confront China and deal
(25:39):
with the debt. It's like, well, he did neither of
those things when he was Speaker of the House, and
we've gained really very little ground on either of those things,
with the exception of Trump and his policy towards China
on trade, not on the debt. Though we can all
do the math. We can all look at the debt
clock and understand what's going on. So yeah, I think
people have to understand we're in it. We're in a
(26:00):
country now where they're going to lock up people that
disagree with them. I mean, to me, that's the most
fundamental issue you can possibly have, the most fundamental issue. Yes, So,
I mean we're to lock people up because you don't
like them, and find excuses to lock them.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You can always find that excuse to lock somebody up.
We've talked about this, was it Harvey's silver Gate. I
think Three Felonies A Day wrote a book about this
many years ago. How people commit crimes.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
They don't even realize a're comitting crimes, but a fair prosecutor,
if there's no injury, no bad thing happens, they go okay, Well,
you know, we're going to let that go based on
the common sense understanding of whether you should actually lock
somebody in a sell or not. But that's changed now.
That's changed now, and at a time when we're seeing
some of these political issues, you know, they're already they're
(26:43):
already looking at more laws, Clay. I mean not to
just bring this into the transgender youth debate right away,
but parents are going to find themselves in the wrong
side of the law in some of these blue states
if they don't want their kids to have transgender surgery.
You're gonna tell me, you're gonna walk away from that fight.
You're gonna that doesn't matter to you. Right So the
legal fight, to me, becomes central to everything else, because
(27:04):
if you can't win on that, how are you gonna win.
You're never gonna have the power, You're never gonna have
the political sway to be able to tackle things like
confronting China.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I just come back, buck.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Mike Pence's entire campaign is predicated on I'm the guy
who will stand on principle. That is his entire campaign.
I don't know how you can more stand on principle
than by saying I'm not going to let a chief
political adversary of the person in charge be put in
(27:40):
cuffs and put in prison.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I just I question why Mike.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Pence is even running for president if that's his answer
on a question, which it clearly was, and by the
way he is, he owes the reason that he can
run for president to Donald Trump selecting him to be president.
It's not like if he hadn't been vice president that
some random governor of Indiana or whatever, senator or whatever
(28:08):
Pence is is going to have a profile to even
have people care about him at all without Trump.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
He's Asa Hutchinson. Right. Oh, I'm sorry, sorry for We're
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I mean, I mean I could have a higher percentage
to be president of the United States right now than
Asa Hutchinson.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Pence is Asa Hutchinson, but for Trump elevating him and
putting him on a national ticket. So the idea that
you would let the man you served as president be
put in cuffs and put in prison for the rest
of his life if you were president, I'm sorry, to me,
that's a disqualifying answer. I don't dislike Mike Pence, but
(28:49):
I don't see how any Republican in the country any
actual Republican could vote for him based on the answer
that he gave on this show. I mean maybe if
you hate Trump, But if you truly hate Trump, I
don't really think you're a publican. I think you're the
Lincoln Project. You might prefer somebody else. You might like
to say, Atis or Tim Scott or Nikki Haley or
anybody out there. Well, I mean there is there's a
difference between. You know, some people were saying everyone needs
(29:12):
to like not campaign anymore and just yeah, Raly behind Trump. No,
that's that's actually not a fair thing. That's not a
fair standard or a smart standard. But would you pardon
Trump if.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
This thing goes all the way and you happen to
become the next president for any of the candidates. It's
not only a fair question, I think it's become an
essential question. And I think we're all seeing why that is.
Can I just put this out there if anyone disagrees
or likes the truck? Can we can we put that
out Well, let's see if anyone will call in, because
we have endless people that are calling in that feel
like there was a dodge there. Does anyone think that
(29:45):
that they agree with the Pen's answer.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Maybe you think that I was too aggressive in the questioning,
you're free to say like, hey, Clay, I didn't think
you handled it that well. Right, I mean, it's again
the first amendments alive. And well you're not going to
agree with every single thing. You shouldn't every single thing
that's said on this program, or every thing that's said
by a.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Guest or certainly a caller. And you can also send
us an email at Clayanbuck dot com. Please become a
v IP and I look, you know, Clay was salty today,
but he was a little salty yesterday. Everybody making fun
of the elevated treadmill walking community. All right, he's playing.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
For people who are your age, not elderly people. I
just didn't expect, n all right, a treadmill.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
But I get I'm in my forties now, and I
get knee pain and shoulder pain and other things too,
like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
All right, just gonna put this out there.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Everyone who wrote in was like, I think walking on
the treble's great exercise, and the science agrees with you.
But look, regardless of whatever you do with the gym,
chances are you're going to experience some pain.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And soreness.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
I certainly do, but thanks to our friends at relief Factor,
it doesn't have to be so bad. You see, I
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That's right.
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Speaker 1 (31:37):
You don't know what's you don't know right, but you could.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
On the Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast, all.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Right, we're gonna be closing up in a few minutes
here on Clay and Buck. Great time to remind you
the iHeartRadio app. Download it and you can stream our
show live anywhere you have sell or Wi Fi service
with the iHeartRadio app, and can also listen on demand
to the Klaan Buck podcast. Please subscribe because there's cool
stuff going to the feed.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
You know.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Pete Ext's a good friend of mine, good friend of Clay's.
He joined that podcast is up today, but we're not
putting on radio only on the podcast, so Pete and
I talk about twenty twenty four a lot of other stuff.
Tutor Dix also has her podcast going into the Claan
and Buck feed, so it's free. This is a free app,
the iHeartRadio App. Please download it today if you haven't,
and certainly subscribe to our podcast Clayanbuck dot com. Become
(32:26):
a VIP. If you want to email us, go to
Clayanbuck dot com for that one. We got a bunch
of emails in this one. This one, this one landed.
Clay effectively ended Mike Pence's presidential campaign. Pence will poll
lower than Kamala in South Carolina in twenty nineteen. Clay
is a hero. Buck was like a ref at an
mma fight when the loser is on the ground getting bummeled.
(32:50):
Clay had Mike on the ground, was ploodying him. Buck
came in and pulled Clay off of traitor Mike.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I mean, I was, I had not Like, I'm still
fired up that Pence's answer is as bad and unprincipled
as it was, and a Buck A lot of times
when I'm listening, I'm also thinking, like if we feel
very fortunate to get to talk and interview people who
want to be president of the United States, but that
(33:18):
sometimes means you have to press them on questions because
as you all know, everybody, all these politicians are very
skilled at getting into their talking points. And Pence kept dodging,
and when you dodge, Look, if he had come out
we were talking about this off air Buck, if he
had come out and just said, as a matter of principle,
I think Trump is the wrong choice for America. I
will not pardon him. He should have to reef the
(33:39):
consequences of his behavior. I would disagree, but that's an answer.
And if he had said, as a matter of principle,
I don't believe anyone should be prosecuted politically like this,
and they should not be allowed to be sent to prison.
Would It's obviously the opinion I have. But to do
this mealy mouthed, middle of the road answer, which is
total and frankly, I think is disrespectful of both us
(34:04):
asking the question, but more than that and more importantly
of the audience that is out there to make a
decision about who you support. I just I'm still flabbergasted
that he was that bad at responding.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Okay, so we have one, we put it out, and
we're only going to take calls from people that want
to take an alternative, alternative point of view right now
about either the Penn's candidacy or how that interview went.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Matt in your town, Virginia. What have you got for.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
Us, Matt claim book?
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Good happen?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I make this quick.
Speaker 6 (34:33):
I don't agree with Pence.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
I think he should have answered, But if he genuinely
has a policy or habit of not commenting on hypotheticals
like you point it out, then I think he does
have an out there.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
If it's genuine, let me just push back a little
bit on that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
It's not a hypothetical now, that the indictment is out
and he's read the indictment. When you are charged with
a criminal offense, you're either not guilty, in which case
you walk away as a free man, or you're guilty
and they put handcuffs on you and you go to prison.
So it isn't hypothetical to know that there is a
very strong chance that Trump could be convicted and put
in prison. So I understand, like hypothetically, before the charges
(35:09):
were filed, I would have a little bit more respect
for that answer, but I don't have any respect for
it now. Frankly, I think you have to make a choice.
That's what being a politician's about. Letting us know what
your choices are and what your leadership decisions would be,
and we don't we'll have to agree with them. I mean, look,
every president makes one hundred and a thousand decisions every day,
(35:29):
whatever the number is.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
We're not all going to agree with everyone.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
But I think you owe it to the audience to
be honest about your opinions on the biggest issues, and
this is the biggest issue right now, all right.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Matt, Okay, Well, Matt, yeah, Matt, Matt. Look, Matt, Matt's
just saying that if he has a rule, maybe he's
sticking to that rule. But Clay, Clay, don't make me
have to pull you off another person.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Here, don't.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I'm still fired up about this, Like Buck, this is
a matter of such principle to me, you can't let
the president be put in handcuffs and put in print
by his political opposition. I feel like I'm taking crazy
pills sometimes because this is such an awful precedent. And
by the way, you can disagree with me, I would
apply it for Democrats too. I don't want the idea
(36:12):
being set that everybody who runs for political office suddenly
has to risk being in prison for the rest of
their lives.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
You know, it's gonna be interesting when we have Chris
Christie on the show and you ask him this question,
because uh, you know, that's you know, separating you tube.
I don't know if I don't know if I have
the forearm strength for it. I mean, that's that's gonna be.
That's gonna be tough. But because I think he's I
don't want to put words in his mouth. I think
he's gonna go in the Trump deserves it direction. I
(36:39):
don't know, We'll see, but we're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Aim idle to that opinion own it. Don't be dishonest
to this audience if he thinks that Trump should go
to prison, and he's running for the Republican nomination, Chris
Christy should tell this audience that's his right.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Christy, he's gonna join us some point.
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in our number three Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.
For those of you out there following this news, the
FED has decided not to raise interest rates in their
most recent meeting. That news just coming down in the
last three or four minutes, so mercifully, at least for now,
interest rates paused. We're joined now by a candidate for
(00:26):
the twenty twenty four Republican presidential nomination. He is former
Vice President Mike Pence. Appreciate you joining us today.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Sir Clay Travis buck Sexton. Thanks for having me on. Guys,
it's an honor to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thanks all right, so we are pleased to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
And I got to begin with the question I said,
and you may have heard it when Ron DeSantis was
honest right with us right after he grad right after
he announced, I said, I think you need to consider
announcing that you will pardon Donald Trump in the event
he has charged. President Trump has now been charged. Yeah,
(01:01):
I mean even yes, convicted. But if you are president
in January of twenty twenty five, I think you would
agree this is a political prosecution. Why am I wrong
to think that it is important for whoever the Republican
president is in the event that it is not Trump,
to pardon him. And why would you not want to
pardon him.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, first off, let's let me take a step back,
but I'm going to answer your question. Yesterday was a
sad day for this country. I mean, the very specter
of a former president of the United States in the dock,
in the court indicted. It's nothing I thought i'd ever
live to see in this country. And I think that
(01:44):
millions of Americans we're downhearted about what we saw. But
in this country, first principles is what you guys talk
about all the time. No one's above the law, and
every one of us is entitled to the presumption of innocent, innocent,
and to a proven guilty.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So that's where we start. And former President Trump's entitled
the Presumption of Innocence. Now I have read the indictment.
I would tell you all, as someone that spent years
on the International Relations Committee, I had the highest level
of clearance when I was your vice president. These are
serious charges. I mean, the handling of classified information bears
(02:22):
upon our national security, the safety of our armed forces,
and I will just say to you, as I've said
another place, I can't defend what has been alleged, but
the former president is entitled to his day in court.
And frankly, after seven years of politicization at the Department
of Justice that I lived through, I was in that
(02:44):
campaign in twenty sixteen when the head of the FBI
said that he was not going to bring charges against
Hillary Clinton for much the same facts that have now
resulted in an indictment against Donald Trump. I was there
in the White House during two and a half year
years of the Russia hoax. I saw the big media,
big tech, you know, collude to essentially suppress the Hunter
(03:07):
Biden laptop story. All the things you guys get covered
with great distinction. But you know, so it's hard for
me to believe that politics did not play a role here.
And it's one of the reasons why last week I
called on the Attorney General, Merrick Garland, to come before
the American people and talk about the reasons for this decision,
(03:27):
to answer questions about the basis of it, because the
American people have lost confidence in the Department of Justice.
And what I will tell you is that should I
have the great privilege of being president of the United States.
We're going to restore confidence in the Department of Justice.
We're going to clean house in all the senior offices.
We're going to put men and women of unimpeachable integrity
(03:52):
in those positions, and we're going to restore the confidence
of the American people in equal treatment under the law.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
As part of that, the Vice President pens Can, I
ask you, would you consider the appointment of a special
counsel to look into what seems to be now increasingly
obvious and raising corruption affecting the Bidens.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Guys, why would we wait for that? I'm demanding it now.
I demanded it on national television this morning. Look, I
want to see the Department of Justice bring equal vigor
to the investigation into allegations concerning President Biden, concerning members
of his family. I'd like to see them bring equal
(04:35):
vigor to the investigation into President Biden's handling of classified documents.
I mean, some of these documents dayed back decades, not
just to when he was Vice president, but when he
was a member of the United States Senate. That's what
I want to see, equal treatment under the laws, that
everybody gets the same everybody gets the same treatment. I'm
going to continue to call on that, but that you
(04:58):
know that the Lady Justine, this is blind and we
ought to be able to demand as Americans that the
law be upheld, but that it'd be evenly and equally
applied to everyone. And I will tell you maybe you know,
I got two members of my immediate family that serve
in the armed forces of the United States. My sons
a captain in the Marine Corps. My son in law
(05:19):
is a lieutenant in the Navy. And I will never
diminish the importance of protecting our nation's secrets. But all
that being said, you know, as I said, I, having
lived through all these years of politicization, I promise you,
if I have the opportunity to be president of the
United States, we're in a clean house. Give the American
(05:40):
people a fresh start, and restore confidence in the rule
of law.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So so, Vice President of penns.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
This is the most basic question, but I think in
a lot of ways it would be the most important
one for you, which is you served under President Trump.
Why are you running, Why do you think you would
do a better job, or what would you be doing differently?
As a matter of policy from what a lot of
the listeners feel like was a overall very successful first
four years of Trump.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Look, I'm incredibly proud of the record of the Trump
Pen's administration. I know there are some candidates in this
Republican primary who have taken to criticizing our record, but look,
I stand by it shoulder to shoulder every single day.
Other than the difficult time that we had at the
end that I spoke about in my announcement speech last week,
(06:25):
where I stood on the Constitution of the United States,
every single day I was there as we worked to
rebuild our military, revived our economy, we cut taxes, rollback regulations,
achieved energy independence, we secured our border, and we appointed
three of the justices to the Supreme Court of the
United States that gave America a new beginning for life.
I'm proud of that record, but I'm running because I
(06:47):
think this country's in a lot of trouble. I mean, frankly,
in two and a half years, President Joe Biden and
the Democrats have weakened America at home and abroad. And
I think those of us that have the experience, which
experience ranges not just from being Vice president but I
was governor of the state of Indiana, where we balanced budgets,
we doubled an educational choice program, We stood for life
(07:09):
and liberty. And also I was a leading House Conservative
for twelve years. I battled against the big spenders in
my own party. That was when I first came into
contact with the late and great Rush Limbaugh. He saw
me as a backbencher that was fighting against big government
Republicanism back in the day. And I would tay. I
(07:30):
just think those of us that have the experience and
those of us that had the proven commitment to the
conservative agenda that's carried us not just to Republican victories,
but to great victories for the American people over the
last fifty years, have an obligation to step forward. And
that's why my wife and I, after a great deal
of prayer and deliberations, announced our intention to seek the
(07:52):
Republican nomination for President of the United States. And any
one of your listeners all over the country that would
like to know more or even help us out, go
to Mike Pence twenty twenty four dot com.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
All right, we're talking to former Vice President Mike Pence,
running for president as the Republican contender here in the primary.
And I want to circle back to the first question
there because I don't think you directly answered it. So
let's presume you're fortunate enough take out of office January
twenty twenty five, you become the next president of the
United States. Donald Trump is convicted of what I think
(08:23):
you would agree are clearly to a large degree, political
based charges. He is facing time in prison, maybe they
even put handcuffs on him and walk him into a prison.
Would you pardon him from those federal charges?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Well, first off, these are serious charges, and as I said,
I can't defend what's been alleged, but the president does
deserve to make his defense. And I would say to
each one of you, Look, I've been a former governor,
I've actually granted pardons to people, and I take the
pardon authority very seriously. It's an enormously important power of
(09:00):
someone in an executive position, and I just think it's
premature of any conversation about that right now, guys, why
would you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But hold on, let me just ask you that because, look,
I think as a matter of principle, I think, as
a matter of principle, if you believe, as both Buck
and I do that Donald Trump is being prosecuted to
a large extent for political based reasons, something that has
never happened in the two hundred and forty plus year
history of the United States. That we are setting an
(09:28):
awful precedent here, and I think it's important to look
at this even before the case has taken place. You've
read the indictment. You know what the allegations are. They
are serious. But to me, what is gained by allowing
Donald Trump to be put in prison in the event
he was convicted, is we lose infinitely more by not
(09:49):
just taking a principled stand and saying, as a matter
of principle, this shouldn't happen.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I'm not going to allow it. To me.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
If you're the executive, you are the ultimate decider, with
all due respect. When you you aren't telling us what
your decision would be, I think you're dodging the question
and and frankly not stepping up on the on the
front of leadership, which in the past you've been willing
to do so to me, not answering as a no.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, look, number one, I don't think you know what
the president's defense is, do you. I mean, what are
the facts. I mean, look, we either believe in our
judicial process in this country or we don't. We either
stand by the rule of law we don't. I just
what I would tell you is, I think as someone.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
But what I'm hearing is you're find with Donald Trump
being put in prison, sir, and that to me, since
you were his vice president, feels pretty disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
I had a standard rule. I don't know about hypotheticals. Look,
we don't know what the president's defense here is. I
think he's entitled to make his defense, entitled to have
his day in court. And uh, look, let's you know,
let's take it one step at a time. But I
would just tell you that I I but if you.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Know that these are pulling charges and you do, this
is not this is not a difficult decision.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I think we've made.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I think we've gotten. I think we've gotten what we're
going to get here. In terms of an answer to
this one.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, I just think any I think any conclusion by
anyone running for the presidency of the United States that
would prejudge the facts in this case, or prejudge the
investigation into President Biden or his family, it's premature. Let's
let Let's let the process play out, Let's follow the facts,
and I promise you, as president of the United States,
(11:29):
I'll do just that.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
What would you do differently from either Trump or any
of the other Republicans running, sir? What where where do
you differentiate yourself? I mean, because for me, if you
feel like the four years under Trump were so great, well,
then why why run yourself? If if the guy who
was at the top of the ticket is running again,
you know what I mean? I mean, honestly, I'm curious
about that.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, it's a it's a great question. Look, you know,
I joined the Republican Party when Ronald Reagan was in
the White House. You guys are probably in great school
at the time ran for office the first time when
he was when he was actually in his last year
in office. I joined the Reagan Revolution. I'm some of
that believes that in a strong national defense, in American
(12:10):
leadership in the world. I think we are the leader
of the free world, the arsenal of democracy. And when
I hear the former president and others, frankly in this
race that are minimizing America's leading role in the world
and talking about pulling back or can't decide who should
win after Russia's unconscionable invasion into Ukraine. I push back
(12:34):
on that. I think we have an obligation to provide
the soldiers of Ukraine with the resources they need to
go and win that fight and repel the Russian invasion.
I also think that's the best way to send a
message to the Chinese that would diminish their military ambition. Secondly, look,
we are facing a debt crisis in this country the
likes of which we have never seen. We have a
(12:56):
national debt the size of our nation's economy for the
first time since World War II, and it's about the
increase by a factor of five times. If we're not
willing to engage the American public and bring principled and
compassionate reforms to the entitlements that are driving three quarters
of our national debt now, Joe Biden's policy is insolvency.
(13:19):
Though frankly, Donald Trump's policy is the same as Joe
Biden is. Neither one of them are even willing to
talk about the national debt, talk about bringing common sense
reforms of social security and medicare. I will, I have
been will continue to. Finally, Look, I'm pro life. I
don't apologize for it. I'm incredibly proud that our administration
appointed three of the justices that sent roversus way to
(13:42):
the ash heap of history where it belongs. We've got
this new era of life before us. And yet I
hear my former running mate talking about some pro life
measures being too harsh, suggesting that overturning Roe v. Wade
cost US elections in the midterm elections, and I see
other candidates beginning to shy away from the right to life. Look,
I believe the cause of life is the calling of
(14:05):
our time, and I'm going to continue to stand strong
with states around the country that are advancing protections to
the unborn. As President of the United States, I'll support
efforts to protect the sanctity of life at the federal
level as well.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Former President Vice President Mike Pence running for president. Appreciate
the time, sir.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Hey guys, thanks for having me on playing Buck.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
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it out for yourself. C choq dot com. That's Chalk
with a Q as in c choq dot com. Choq
dot com my name Clay in the purchase process, the
truth compass pointing do right every day the Clay Travis
(15:38):
said Buck Sexton show.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Well, we just spoke to a Vice President Pence there.
We're getting a lot of comments from a lot of you.
Want to open up the lines to you eight hundred
two eight two two eight eight Q clearly not committing
to a pardon of Donald Trump, not not committing to it,
and not answering it one way or the Clay Will.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You got so fired up because I kept asking him
this same question. Buck, But I'm so fired up about this.
I think Mike Pence's campaign is over. I think he
just ended it in that interview because if your campaign,
let me just explain what my theory here, because I
think if your campaign is I'm the guy who will
stand on principle. I refuse to do what Donald Trump
(16:18):
wanted me to do on January sixth, because constitutionally I
didn't do it. I'll make the hard decisions and I
will stand on principle. I don't know how you can
stand on principle more than saying trying to put a
former president in prison for political reasons is wrong, and
I'll make the hard choice and keep him out of prison.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Book Book.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
He's he's the vice president of Trump, right, he's running
against Trump. That's never occurred in the history of our republic.
You want to talk about disloyalty, Okay, you asked him.
He's got an answer. He thinks they'll do a better job.
I don't agree personally, but he would let his former
president be put in handcuffs by Joe Biden and won't
(17:01):
tell us.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I won't let that happen. That's done to me.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
If they if they come after you, Clay, I promise
I'll part of you.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
That's what I'm saying. I hand hand to God right now,
hand on the Bible.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
If the Feds come after Clay with some politicized nonsense,
he's getting to pardon from president, but.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I'm not gonna let them put you in handcuffs and
and and and purp walk you into a prison. I
make that pledge to carry in your mom and dad
right now. He knew that question was coming, and my
mind is blown. We'll take some of your calls. Can
I just how does he not have an answer for that?
I mean the answer is basically, he's not gonna pardon him.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I mean, yes, this is why I'm just like that.
I think it's very clear. I think it's very clear
that you know he's he's not gonna wait. His answer,
to be fair is he won't give an answer on
this until we see the trial. That's his real answer.
But for a lot of us, it's what is that.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Just our BS already, like, I don't even need to
know the trial to know what I would do. That's
what leadership is. He's done. I think his campaign's over
Verizon AT and T T Mobile. If you're still with him,
by the way, he's welcome to come on again. I
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Save an additional fifty percent off your first month Welcomeout
getting Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. A lot of you
want to weigh in on our interview with Mike Pence,
which I think will soon be ricocheting around the interwebs
(19:11):
and the cable news networks and beyond, and I'll just
let you guys react Again. I've been pretty straightforward. I
would pardon Donald Trump if I were president of the
United States. I think the principle of it is important
to set that we don't try to put political candidates
in jail for political process based crimes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I think that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Mike Pence claims that he is a candidate of principle,
and he certainly claims that based on his behavior.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
On January sixth.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I think it's a matter of principle that you should,
if you're running as a Republican candidate, say that you
will pardon Donald Trump in the event that he's convicted.
I just don't see that as a difficult decision or choice.
And by the way, if you disagree, own it. I
think Pence sounded like a typical politician, and that's why
we kind of p on it. But a lot of
you want to weigh in. You can agree or disagree. Certainly,
(20:03):
the first amendments alive and well on this show. Who
is up first?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Here?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
JC and Cincinnati. I believe Jac. What do you think?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (20:12):
I couldn't agree with you more. On principle, I think
this interview you had with Pence was very revealing. You
could see right through him. I think he's completely out
of touch, and he's using tropes from the old Republican Party.
He's comparing himself to Ronald Reagan, which they all do,
which they have no right to do. They're hiding behind
(20:36):
right to life, They're hiding behind all kinds of things
in order to not answer questions. He's an old rhino
with McConnell and McCarthy, and you know, I'm just so
sick and tired of it. I'm tired of hearing these things.
I'm forty three years old, I'm the same age as
you guys, and his quipped about you being young and uh, well,
(21:00):
Ronald Reagan was in office is foolish and demeaning, and
I think he's got to go on principle. The principle
matter is these people are using the law and executing
in a way that's unlawful, and that's what we say
when we say no, that's wrong. He should be parted.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I think, thank you God.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I think do you think he was a little bit
rattled there, Buck, because when he said, you guys are
probably still in grade school. We were, We were young
when Ronald Reagan was president. Guess what, we also have
the balls to say we would pardon Trump unlike Pence.
So maybe age doesn't factor in that much with who's
got a better legacy of Reagan?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Marty in Florida. Yeah, what do you got for us?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Marty?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Hey, Hey clam Brook, Hey clam Book, I love your show.
I just wanted to weigh in on what just happened
with Mike Pence. I believe that Mike Pence actually does
his own grave and this wolf culture, what we're going
through right now. I believe that the wolf community will
starve him to the hand, to the bottom of the
bare bone. He just showed that he doesn't know how
(22:04):
to make a decision in relation to something that is
at a serious magnitude. If Trump asks him to be
his VP, how can you how can you turn your
back on somebody? How can you not be able to
make a decision? When the rest of the country, everybody,
even certain Democrats, even though they're not or they're not
(22:25):
exposed to it publicly, they even agree that this is political.
So the whole country is content that this was the
political prosecution. Accept the Biden regime, accept the Bidens, and
with that it should be a slam done. It's a
no brainer. So what Mike Fince just told me was
he don't deserve my vote, he don't want my vote,
and he and he's been a politician for way too long,
(22:47):
which is really what he just showed us is that
some of these people they've been on Capitol Hill way
too long. It's time for them to go home. And
we got to put an age limit or a tenure
on how long these people who can be in on
Capitol Hill. Because he shouldn't even have made the statement that, well, well,
when you guys were in school, well I was going
(23:08):
to with the rigging.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
That doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
What matters is can you can You can't do what
America needs in order to put us back on the
right track. And if you keep closed the door on
what the what the Democrats have done to Donald Trump
and the presidency of the United States of America, then
you're not the person we need to have in the
Oval office.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Marty and Florida thank you for calling in, but he
appreciate it. Marty's got a lot of fire, a lot
of passion that I could tell you is no really,
It's reflected in all the emails we're getting to and
people are very fired up right now.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I think that one of the challenges for anybody who look.
I know, we did get some we got some people
called last week just to rewind the tape for a second,
who were very positively disposed toward the former vice president.
We did get those calls. Remember that did happen? And
I just think, though, in what world is Donald Trump
sitting in a prison set well, based on what the
(24:02):
charges are, never mind even if they're true or not, like,
just based on the kind of things that they said happen.
We know what they're saying happened, and what world wild
Trump sitting in a cell. Be a good thing for
the country, be a fair thing, be a just thing.
That's that's the challenge to me. This is not a
difficult question.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And the fact, I mean, Eddie and New York, what
did you think, right of the Penn's response there, Oh.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, Howard did. How Howard and Hollywood Floor a lot
of fellow Floridians today. What's up, Howard Berts.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
I want to say one thing. I don't support Donald
Trump for president necessarily, but I really have issues with
what Mike Kent said. He's talking about the pencils principles
of democracy and there's no place in a democracy for
political persecution. So just for him to say he's, you know,
supporting the principles of democracies and not recognize that Meret
(24:56):
Stalin is going against all the principles about democracy. So
for him to not go against that and did not
be able to say I would, I would not, I
would call it. Trump to me says she's not really
with the times that it's not the right person for president.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Thank you, thank you, Howard.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I just say it also whenever I start hearing look
that the debt is super important, but no one really
you know, there are other things that feel more imminent
right now for the country to fix and more realistic
for the country to fix. It's a little bit like
remember we Paul played Paul Ryan, I think it was yesterday.
He said, you know, I don't really care about the
culture wars. I just want to confront China and deal
(25:39):
with the debt. It's like, well, he did neither of
those things when he was Speaker of the House, and
we've gained really very little ground on either of those things,
with the exception of Trump and his policy towards China
on trade, not on the debt. Though we can all
do the math. We can all look at the debt
clock and understand what's going on. So yeah, I think
people have to understand we're in it. We're in a
(26:00):
country now where they're going to lock up people that
disagree with them. I mean, to me, that's the most
fundamental issue you can possibly have, the most fundamental issue. Yes, So,
I mean we're to lock people up because you don't
like them, and find excuses to lock them.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You can always find that excuse to lock somebody up.
We've talked about this, was it Harvey's silver Gate. I
think Three Felonies A Day wrote a book about this
many years ago. How people commit crimes.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
They don't even realize a're comitting crimes, but a fair prosecutor,
if there's no injury, no bad thing happens, they go okay, Well,
you know, we're going to let that go based on
the common sense understanding of whether you should actually lock
somebody in a sell or not. But that's changed now.
That's changed now, and at a time when we're seeing
some of these political issues, you know, they're already they're
(26:43):
already looking at more laws, Clay. I mean not to
just bring this into the transgender youth debate right away,
but parents are going to find themselves in the wrong
side of the law in some of these blue states
if they don't want their kids to have transgender surgery.
You're gonna tell me, you're gonna walk away from that fight.
You're gonna that doesn't matter to you. Right So the
legal fight, to me, becomes central to everything else, because
(27:04):
if you can't win on that, how are you gonna win.
You're never gonna have the power, You're never gonna have
the political sway to be able to tackle things like
confronting China.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I just come back, buck.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Mike Pence's entire campaign is predicated on I'm the guy
who will stand on principle. That is his entire campaign.
I don't know how you can more stand on principle
than by saying I'm not going to let a chief
political adversary of the person in charge be put in
(27:40):
cuffs and put in prison.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I just I question why Mike.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Pence is even running for president if that's his answer
on a question, which it clearly was, and by the
way he is, he owes the reason that he can
run for president to Donald Trump selecting him to be president.
It's not like if he hadn't been vice president that
some random governor of Indiana or whatever, senator or whatever
(28:08):
Pence is is going to have a profile to even
have people care about him at all without Trump.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
He's Asa Hutchinson. Right. Oh, I'm sorry, sorry for We're
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I mean, I mean I could have a higher percentage
to be president of the United States right now than
Asa Hutchinson.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Pence is Asa Hutchinson, but for Trump elevating him and
putting him on a national ticket. So the idea that
you would let the man you served as president be
put in cuffs and put in prison for the rest
of his life if you were president, I'm sorry, to me,
that's a disqualifying answer. I don't dislike Mike Pence, but
(28:49):
I don't see how any Republican in the country any
actual Republican could vote for him based on the answer
that he gave on this show. I mean maybe if
you hate Trump, But if you truly hate Trump, I
don't really think you're a publican. I think you're the
Lincoln Project. You might prefer somebody else. You might like
to say, Atis or Tim Scott or Nikki Haley or
anybody out there. Well, I mean there is there's a
difference between. You know, some people were saying everyone needs
(29:12):
to like not campaign anymore and just yeah, Raly behind Trump. No,
that's that's actually not a fair thing. That's not a
fair standard or a smart standard. But would you pardon
Trump if.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
This thing goes all the way and you happen to
become the next president for any of the candidates. It's
not only a fair question, I think it's become an
essential question. And I think we're all seeing why that is.
Can I just put this out there if anyone disagrees
or likes the truck? Can we can we put that
out Well, let's see if anyone will call in, because
we have endless people that are calling in that feel
like there was a dodge there. Does anyone think that
(29:45):
that they agree with the Pen's answer.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Maybe you think that I was too aggressive in the questioning,
you're free to say like, hey, Clay, I didn't think
you handled it that well. Right, I mean, it's again
the first amendments alive. And well you're not going to
agree with every single thing. You shouldn't every single thing
that's said on this program, or every thing that's said
by a.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Guest or certainly a caller. And you can also send
us an email at Clayanbuck dot com. Please become a
v IP and I look, you know, Clay was salty today,
but he was a little salty yesterday. Everybody making fun
of the elevated treadmill walking community. All right, he's playing.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
For people who are your age, not elderly people. I
just didn't expect, n all right, a treadmill.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
But I get I'm in my forties now, and I
get knee pain and shoulder pain and other things too,
like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
All right, just gonna put this out there.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Everyone who wrote in was like, I think walking on
the treble's great exercise, and the science agrees with you.
But look, regardless of whatever you do with the gym,
chances are you're going to experience some pain.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And soreness.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
I certainly do, but thanks to our friends at relief Factor,
it doesn't have to be so bad. You see, I
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That's right.
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Relief Factor is one hundred percent free, was created by
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Speaker 1 (31:37):
You don't know what's you don't know right, but you could.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
On the Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast, all.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Right, we're gonna be closing up in a few minutes
here on Clay and Buck. Great time to remind you
the iHeartRadio app. Download it and you can stream our
show live anywhere you have sell or Wi Fi service
with the iHeartRadio app, and can also listen on demand
to the Klaan Buck podcast. Please subscribe because there's cool
stuff going to the feed.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
You know.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Pete Ext's a good friend of mine, good friend of Clay's.
He joined that podcast is up today, but we're not
putting on radio only on the podcast, so Pete and
I talk about twenty twenty four a lot of other stuff.
Tutor Dix also has her podcast going into the Claan
and Buck feed, so it's free. This is a free app,
the iHeartRadio App. Please download it today if you haven't,
and certainly subscribe to our podcast Clayanbuck dot com. Become
(32:26):
a VIP. If you want to email us, go to
Clayanbuck dot com for that one. We got a bunch
of emails in this one. This one, this one landed.
Clay effectively ended Mike Pence's presidential campaign. Pence will poll
lower than Kamala in South Carolina in twenty nineteen. Clay
is a hero. Buck was like a ref at an
mma fight when the loser is on the ground getting bummeled.
(32:50):
Clay had Mike on the ground, was ploodying him. Buck
came in and pulled Clay off of traitor Mike.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I mean, I was, I had not Like, I'm still
fired up that Pence's answer is as bad and unprincipled
as it was, and a Buck A lot of times
when I'm listening, I'm also thinking, like if we feel
very fortunate to get to talk and interview people who
want to be president of the United States, but that
(33:18):
sometimes means you have to press them on questions because
as you all know, everybody, all these politicians are very
skilled at getting into their talking points. And Pence kept dodging,
and when you dodge, Look, if he had come out
we were talking about this off air Buck, if he
had come out and just said, as a matter of principle,
I think Trump is the wrong choice for America. I
will not pardon him. He should have to reef the
(33:39):
consequences of his behavior. I would disagree, but that's an answer.
And if he had said, as a matter of principle,
I don't believe anyone should be prosecuted politically like this,
and they should not be allowed to be sent to prison.
Would It's obviously the opinion I have. But to do
this mealy mouthed, middle of the road answer, which is
total and frankly, I think is disrespectful of both us
(34:04):
asking the question, but more than that and more importantly
of the audience that is out there to make a
decision about who you support. I just I'm still flabbergasted
that he was that bad at responding.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Okay, so we have one, we put it out, and
we're only going to take calls from people that want
to take an alternative, alternative point of view right now
about either the Penn's candidacy or how that interview went.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Matt in your town, Virginia. What have you got for.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
Us, Matt claim book?
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Good happen?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I make this quick.
Speaker 6 (34:33):
I don't agree with Pence.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
I think he should have answered, But if he genuinely
has a policy or habit of not commenting on hypotheticals
like you point it out, then I think he does
have an out there.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
If it's genuine, let me just push back a little
bit on that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
It's not a hypothetical now, that the indictment is out
and he's read the indictment. When you are charged with
a criminal offense, you're either not guilty, in which case
you walk away as a free man, or you're guilty
and they put handcuffs on you and you go to prison.
So it isn't hypothetical to know that there is a
very strong chance that Trump could be convicted and put
in prison. So I understand, like hypothetically, before the charges
(35:09):
were filed, I would have a little bit more respect
for that answer, but I don't have any respect for
it now. Frankly, I think you have to make a choice.
That's what being a politician's about. Letting us know what
your choices are and what your leadership decisions would be,
and we don't we'll have to agree with them. I mean, look,
every president makes one hundred and a thousand decisions every day,
(35:29):
whatever the number is.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
We're not all going to agree with everyone.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
But I think you owe it to the audience to
be honest about your opinions on the biggest issues, and
this is the biggest issue right now, all right.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Matt, Okay, Well, Matt, yeah, Matt, Matt. Look, Matt, Matt's
just saying that if he has a rule, maybe he's
sticking to that rule. But Clay, Clay, don't make me
have to pull you off another person.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Here, don't.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I'm still fired up about this, Like Buck, this is
a matter of such principle to me, you can't let
the president be put in handcuffs and put in print
by his political opposition. I feel like I'm taking crazy
pills sometimes because this is such an awful precedent. And
by the way, you can disagree with me, I would
apply it for Democrats too. I don't want the idea
(36:12):
being set that everybody who runs for political office suddenly
has to risk being in prison for the rest of
their lives.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
You know, it's gonna be interesting when we have Chris
Christie on the show and you ask him this question,
because uh, you know, that's you know, separating you tube.
I don't know if I don't know if I have
the forearm strength for it. I mean, that's that's gonna be.
That's gonna be tough. But because I think he's I
don't want to put words in his mouth. I think
he's gonna go in the Trump deserves it direction. I
(36:39):
don't know, We'll see, but we're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Aim idle to that opinion own it. Don't be dishonest
to this audience if he thinks that Trump should go
to prison, and he's running for the Republican nomination, Chris
Christy should tell this audience that's his right.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Christy, he's gonna join us some point.
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