November 14, 2025 • 23 mins
Emily and Shane in Las Vegas for BravoCon this weekend and they’re giving you updates on your favorite cases. From Karen Read to the Murdaughs, they’re diving into it all.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
will be your host Emily Simpson. And I'm sorry I
forgot to say and and Shane, you forgot I was
in the right. I forgot you were here. Okay. So
we're going to do some updates on some cases that
we have spoken about previously. And one of my favorite
cases ever is the Karen Reid case, which we did.
(00:24):
We did a couple episodes on Karen Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Because it did one big episode and we talked about
it in another time, right.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
But I love talking about Karen Reid because there's just
so much to talk about. It's an unsolved mystery. I
don't think we'll ever know actually what happened that night.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
But who do you think did it?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well? I I think that possibly something happened inside that
house with the dog and the police officer.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh okay, so you think it was not Karen and
you think it was a police officer.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I think something happened to him inside that house and
then there was a cover up. That's that's what I
take away from it. But Karen Reid is not out
of the new anymore. There's been some new things going
on with Michael Proctor. And if you will remember, Michael
Proctor is the lead investigator during the case.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
At a conflict of interest or show.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yes, he was the one that had the text messages
that were inappropriate, and so he was actually fired and
then he appealed his firing. But then now some new
evidence or some new things have come up, so more
cases involving Michael Proctor are under review. This was an
NBC Boston article. Recent court documents show the Norfolk County
(01:31):
District Attorney's office has examined nearly twenty cases involving former
Massachusetts State Police trooper Michael Proctor. I'm not surprised that
the number is high. Before we're done, it might even
go higher, said NBC ten Boston legal analyst Michael Coin.
See now that's the problem because now what happens is
(01:52):
these defense attorneys that defended their clients and now all
this evidence is coming forward that was inappropriate that has
to do with these cases. Does that give them, depending
on what they're finding, a mistrial or a reason to appeal?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, well yeah, I don't know. That's a tough one
because where those defendants found guilty of their crimes, where
they found not guilty, they're not guilty. Ones aren't going
to like, well.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
They're not going to say a word. They're gonna be
really quiet. Prosecutors were ordered to review a federal investigation
of the Read case and turn over any evidence beneficial
to other defendants whose cases involved the former state trooper.
The cases were identified as part of a document involving
Brian Walsh, who was charged with killing and dismembering his wife,
Anna Walsh. Proctor investigated that case as well. Anytime that
(02:42):
you can use some of these mistakes that he's made
to help put doubt in the minds of a juror,
that is precisely what they're supposed to do. This is
what the legal analyst said. So it's unclear what if
any information was given to the defendants, with a lot
of the details coming from Proctor's cell phone. Here's what
I don't understand about Proctor. So first of all, they
got the inappropriate text directly from his phone, right, they
(03:04):
did like a forensic analysis, but he had deleted a
lot of things. So now this deeper dive with all
this new evidence coming forward, is because they've I don't know, like,
I'm not a cell phone expert. Clearly.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
No, you're just a legal podcast.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, I'm just a lowly legal podcast person. But wouldn't
someone that was a police officer, detective investigator understand that
he was if he's deleting things off his phone, that
they can still find it in the cloud.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, but my yes, my guess would be they delete
it so on its face value, it's not there. So
if someone were to look at their phone or something,
I don't think they deleted it thinking it's gone forever
and ever. But why why didn't just think about it
that far. It's sort of like wiping up blood. You
wipe it up. Yeah. Can you put the luminol or
(03:51):
whatever and find it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, I know. I like that word luminol.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'll turn you on.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yes, I like luminol.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So then, but people maybe clean it just on the
surface level, so someone will walk through they don't see it.
Maybe if someone were to look at his phone, they
wouldn't see.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So you're saying he hands over his phone they find Okay,
well there we go.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Proctor had been fighting to get his job back until
last month, when Norfolk County Prosecutors admitted in a court
filing that his personal cell phone data contained images of
intimate body parts. I would like more details on that. Please.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Do you want the intimate body part?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I want to I would like to see the images.
I want to know what we're talking about about intimate
body parts?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Google intimate?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Are we talking about the images you see?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Is it genitalia? Is that what he has photos of?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Probably? What else is intimate?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I don't know. I didn't know if it meant like
a close up of an ear? Is that an intimate
body part? No, now you're being silly, No one, No,
I meant I intimate. I know, I'm seriously. Does intimate
mean like it was like a close up of body parts?
Or does intimate mean? Okay, you're just staring.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
This explains a lot emily you not knowing what an
intimate part is.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Keep going, okay. The union that represents state police troopers
declined to continue paying for his lawyer, and Proctor withdrew
his request to be reinstated to the department. All right,
So that's our update on Karen Reid. We'll continue to
follow that because I think there's so many more things
that are going to come out about Michael.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Proctor and do you think Michael Proctor had to do
with it or do you think he was just fumbling
the uh like the prosecution and investigation of it. No.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I think he's just inappropriate And I think that he
was sharing images probably with friends and stuff from all
these cases he's investigating.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Okay, so after the crime was committed.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Or during I don't know, while he's investigating. Because while
he was investigating Karen Reid, he was sending photos of
her in text talking. Remember he was like talking about her,
didn't you make comments about her? She's hot, but she
doesn't have an ass and like things like that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh that was him that said that, Yes, Yes, that
was him.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
So I'm saying we already know that he sends highly
inappropriate text messages unprofessional, right, But it wasn't just a
Karen Reid. It's now goes back to at least twenty
cases that he investigated. So now this is opening a
whole can of worms on all these cases. You think
these defense attorneys in those cases are chomping at the
bit wanting to get a hold.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Of Yeah, it's like what I've seen. I've seen situations
where a cop is found to be crop planning a
drug in a car and then arresting that person, right,
And then they go back and there's dozens that they
have to release because then they go look in the
same because now he has an mo right, it was
like bodycam footage the way he sneare snuck it in
and claimed it was in the car, and then they
can see that pattern. Now they go back and the
(06:32):
people were getting released like left and.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right, right. So I'm saying this is the tip of
the iceberg because now all these cases, they're gonna want
they're going to want to know what it was that
he was saying, what's he's sending, who's he's sending it to,
what are the photos? So anyway, all right, let's move
on to the Delphi murders. If you remember, we also
did a podcast on the Delphi case, which was the
murder of the two young girls in Delphi, Indiana. I've
(06:55):
always told you guys, my opinion is that I believe
they have the wrong man that is currently been convicted.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
You felt that the interrogation showed that he was a
pretty genuine, decent person that had nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
To do with the Well, that was my gut feeling,
and that was my takeaway when I watched the interrogations.
And then also I felt that that one little piece
of evidence. Remember they found that gunshot. It wasn't a shell,
it was the actual the case spent round, right, but
it had striations that like matched him in his house.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
But that was it. That's old school. That's like, oh,
this hair follicle matches this hair. I'm saying, I supposed
a DNA where it's a black exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
There was no DNA that was matched to him.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Was this a CBS technician that happened to be taking
a walk on a bridge.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yes, he's the guy that reached out and said, hey,
I was there that day. And then right, his name's
Richard Allen.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
You know well you know it. You know his wife's
a little bit at fault because she made him call.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yes, well, I'm sure she feels.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Like extremely guilty. This crime investigation's like you were there, honey,
you should call and tell them. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So a judge release more than twelve hundred pages of
exhibits from del High murderer Richard Allen's case on Monday,
then sealed the exhibits, which signals that Allan's appeal is
about a month from being filed. Several news outlets published
the exhibits, which have since been blocked from public inspection.
The Journal and Courier downloaded the file from Fort Wayne's
(08:26):
Wayne five website on Tuesday and verified the filing of
two hundred and one pages of exhibits on Wednesday through
sealed court documents that detailed the number of pages. The
specific content, however, was no longer accessible to the public.
Among the exhibits are an affidavit from Todd Klik, a
former Rushville assistant police chief who investigated the possible involvement
(08:49):
in the killings of Odness in the eastern part of Indiana.
And do you remember we talked about this. This was
one of the things I actually pulled up that document.
Not this this is on appeal, But there's another document
that his defense attorney filed before he went to trial
that he wanted to get an evidence that there was
third party possible guilt with this satan satanic cult because
(09:13):
of the the very.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You called it. You called it someday, there was a
terminology for it where like they lay the sticks down
or they.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I just said satanic ritual.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Okay, yeah, that's that's right.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But it was the crime scene. Remember, it was like
one of the bodies was found underneath the tree and
there was a marking above it, and then it had
sticks laid in a certain way on top. And then
the other girl they were found naked. The other girl
had branches laid on top of her and they were
symbols from this. And then remember the guards that were
guarding him were odinous and they had odin his patches
on them.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I mean, it was just that stuff was there before.
Now I think about it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
What the branch the branches they were laying on top
of the bodies.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, I missed the memo on that one. Well, the
reason I say that is because in high school, my friend,
he's not a murderer. My friend, he would be at
church early. There was an early class, right, and he
would get dropped up early because his mom dropped him
off early. And he sat there and waited untill we
(10:12):
all got there. And he carved in the concrete no fate.
But that was because he was a Terminator fan and
that Terminator two came out, so he carved in no fate.
He thought he was like tough and stuff. Yeah, Well,
that month, soon after someone committed suicide on the sidewalk
nearby where it said no fate by coincidence. Not a
member of the church, not affiliate, just just unfortunately someone
(10:35):
that was committed suicide did right there, and everyone thought
that he carved in no fate and then killed himself.
Oh so, so I didn't know if the sticks were there,
But now you're telling me that on top of the body.
So my point is moot.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yes, exactly, So thank you for that anecdote.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's still a good story though.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
The exhibits also included transcripts of Indiana State Police interviews
with Kathy Allen, who is Richard's wife. After Allan's arrest
on October twenty six of twenty twenty two, he was
ordered to be housed in the Westville Correctional Facility, where
at least two guards wore patches on their uniforms that
tied them to Odinism. According to these exhibits, Max Baker,
(11:14):
who worked for Allan's defense team, filed an affidavit stating
that he witnessed the oldness patches on prison guards uniforms,
as well as one patch that read I hate people.
I mean, I feel like I could wear a patch
that says that too. I don't have to be an oldist.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
You don't have to wear badge. People know it.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Oh that's true. I don't need a patch. My face
says it all.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Your voice says it all okay.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Baker also reviewed video images recorded by prison guards that
showed Allan, who was in Westville Prison for safekeeping, had
been badly beaten and had two black eyes. The exhibits
filed on Monday include documents detailing theories of Oldness and
Delphi and Logan Sport, suggesting that they might be involved
along with the Oldness on the east side of the state.
(11:54):
It included questions and depositions about police investigation of and
dismissal of the theory that the branches and limbs, as
well as the positioning of the bodies and the f
that was painted on a tree with Libby's blood all
tied back to Odinism. Now, if you remember when we
talked about this earlier, he had tried. The defense attorney
tried previously back in September of twenty twenty three to
(12:15):
present that lengthy memorandum about how they were killed in
an out and it might have been tied to human sacrifices, which.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Then would not have connected the CBS technician right right,
because he was in that stuff where he could argue that,
you know, he has no signs of that anywhere.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
But the judge denied it and would not allow any
of that evidence.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Probably because the judge is part of the Satanic.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Group that I mean could be allegedly.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Judges could be part of it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Allegedly, Yeah, okay, but no, no, they could be. Well,
anyone could be.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That doesn't need to be. That's why you don't need
see alleged.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, back to Richard Allen. So this is another way
to try to get that information.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And this is a genuine question. What's another explanation for
those sticks someone came up after? Like if it wasn't
the if the CBS, well, I don't know, how could
those sticks be there other than the murder putting it there?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
It had that's the only way, other than what some
girl scouts came along later and boy scouts and put
them on the bodies.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So that means if they're able to introduce this evidence
and then they're able to point out to the defendant
that he is not affiliated anyway, there's no signs, there's
no history, there's no social media. There's nothing that ties
this guy to these sticks or any sticks, then he
should there should be some doubt.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right. Well, that's why if the judge allows this to
come in on appeal, it raises a reasonable doubt, right,
exactly right.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I was just saying it.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And you know, also I was reading with this case,
and this is another reason I said this before. Before
I even read this, I never felt like this is
something that one man could have done, because you're talking
about two girls that both of them had their clothes rooms,
he went across the water, he had he readdressed them.
He had to.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, but I disagree. I'm not saying who did it,
but one person could do it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I did exercise control over two young girls and put
fear in them and get them to comply.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I just don't see how he could have done it
in the timeframe and with it being a public I
don't know it just.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I see your point. I'm just saying it can't happen.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I mean it could happen, I just don't see it happening.
And they did, the police investigating it did think it
was Originally when they were first investigating, they felt that
it was a two man or more.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, it could have been too.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Let's move on to the Murdall murders. This was another
one of my favorite podcasts because I this family was
well Alec Alec Murdall was just so corrupt that allegedly, no,
he was convicted. Yeah inside this. Okay, so this is interesting.
(15:04):
So there is a scathing letter that Alex Murdoch's and
people told me it's Alec even though there's an ex
it's Alec, and it's Murdoch, even though well that's how
they pronounce it, and.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
That I give him some respect here.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, I'm trying to pronounce his name correctly because that's
that's what I heard, that he puts the murder in Murdach. Yes.
So a housekeeper came forward and wrote, this was in people.
So Blanca Rbiate Simpson. Oh my gosh, her nat last
name Simpson Shane.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Wait is she your cousin, Donny?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Is she?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Uh? This isn't the housekeeper that he killed.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
No, this is another housekeeper.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Did he kill her?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Not yet? So Blanca was a US Navy veteran and
former corrections officer who started working as one of the
family's housekeepers in two thousand and seven and she wrote
a new tell all called Within the House of Murder
amid a unique friendship Blanca and Maggie. That is a
long title and an exclusive excerpt from the book, Simpson writes, Alex,
(16:10):
have you adapted to your new life? Is your bed
made to your satisfaction? Are the sheets soft against your
sensitive skin? Do they make your bed with freshly pressed
sheet and are tight enough to bounce a quarter off?
In another part of the letter, she writes, I often
ask myself, at what point did greed, ambition, and lack
of empathy overpower you? You had love, family, friendship, respect
and privilege. You had it all, and you decimated everything
(16:32):
when you decided nobody deserved to be better off than
your family. Saying that she feels betrayed by Alec, Simpson writes,
what happened to you? What happened to the man who
was always entertaining by cracking jokes? What happened to the
man who nurtured and cared for his family? At what
point did you become so unhappy in your life that
you decided to kill your wife and son? She also
(16:55):
opens up a host of unanswered questions when she writes
about seeing an unnamed woman at the family's estate known
as Mozelle after the funerals.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
She was unnamed.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Her name's Blanca. She's writing about. She's writing about after
the funeral, she saw some woman. She's saying he's having
an affair.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Okay, I know you said unnamed woman. Well she didn't know.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
She doesn't know her name. Okay, she just saw a
random woman. She's basically coming forward after she worked for
them in two thousand and seven. Now she can profit
from a book. So she's coming forward and she's writing
a book, a tell all about all the things that
she saw.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I'm unknown, yes, yeah, because she does have a name.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, she doesn't know her name.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Okay. She finishes the letter by writing, in part I
may never find the answers that bring me full closure,
but for now I am releasing the emotional burden of
your betrayal and focusing on my own healing, praying for you, Blanca.
So I guess she's writing a tell all book. And
then she includes a letter to Alec Murdoch.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And so that's where I have a I mean, just
for conversation purposes. I have a problem with that because
It's like if you have if you had a problem
with him and you saw him as dangerous. Assuming that's
the case, then why are you telling us now after
the murder?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Short because she worked for them and she made money
she kept from mouse shut and now that it's now,
you can make money from a book. All right, all right,
let's move on to Susan Lawrence. If you remember the
name Susan Lawrence, he's the perfect neighbor. He is the
perfect neighbor.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Good job hat a lady.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You hate that lady. Everybody hates that lady.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I don't know who.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well, I felt like the catfish mom was probably the
most hated woman in the world at that short in time.
But then Susan Lawrence came along, and now every she
took the title. Yes she did. So here we are
with Susan Lawrence again. A jury found Susan Lorenz guilty
of manslaughter after she shot a j Owens her locked
front door, killing her. This is back in June of
(18:45):
twenty twenty three. Lorenz was sentenced to twenty five years
in prison and has maintained that she was the victim
of harassment from Owen's and Owen's.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Children of course.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Owen's mother, Pamela Dias, filed a wrongful death suit against
both Lorenz and the owner of the quedplex quadplex, sorry,
the owner of the quadplex.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Would you call it a quadplex? It's not a quadplex.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It's a quad plex.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Sounds like it's easily he's suffering from quid plex.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
It's a quad plex where she lived. The suit says
that Charles Gabbard, who was the one who owned the property,
should have known that Lorenz had a propensity for gross
negligence and or intentional harm. You know, we talked about that.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's a little bit of a stretch, but I totally
think there's something there.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
There might be There might be that he was on
notice of the problems than that.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
She was maybe a little that's not your property, that's
common area, or did he tell her put a no
trespassing sign on there? Therefore he's supporting her and kicking
the kids out, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So I know the headlines with this update a lot.
It says like Susan Lorenz writes letter, you know, and
but what people don't understand is she's writing the letter
because she's writing the letter as a response to the
wrongful death suit.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So this is her actual I don't think she's supposed
to writing a nasty letter.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
She's not just writing a letter, she's actually this is
her response to the wrongful destiny. And I from my takeaway,
I don't think she's represented by counsel. It seems like, well,
she's an attorney because she's a doctor, right, so now
she's representing herself. It seems like so. In a handwritten
letter filed with the court, Lorenz responds to allegations in
the lawsuit and reiterates her accusations that Owen's and her
(20:27):
children were the aggressors. Lorenz claims that Owen's children would
come over to my apartment and do ding dong ditch.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know, how how can that justify murder? Obviously it
never just like it's like I know I killed her,
but these kids were reading my doorbell, they.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Were loud, and I know they were playing for.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Playing frisbee, Lorenz says in the letter, kiss off.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
She pisses everyone off. Lorenz says in the letter that
she wants to quote counter suit for slander, libel, and
defamation of character for damages that exceed fifty thou dollars
against Owen's mother.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
The body cams didn't defame her.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Character, right, so she wants to counter sue against Owen's mother,
the minor children, and the property owner. Lorenz's letter says
that the property owner failed to secure the property correctly
and allowed the victim and her children to harass her.
Lorenz closes the letter by writing, quote completion of fact
(21:25):
and expert discovery to follow.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So you know what, my advice to the landlord is
a better background check when you get some tenants.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I don't know that what what would show up? She
probably had no prior.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, you know what. You call the prior landlord where
she lived and say what was she a problem? And
they'd be like hell, yeah, you're saying background check.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Don't just like pull up a like a criminal background check.
You're saying, call an act act.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yes, what he personality is like absolutely yeah. And then
if you're like, all this lady like doesn't have a job,
isn't doing anything, and she has a I mean that's
a reason though.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Look you shouldn't have a shotgun. She had a handgun.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, it's no better.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Court records do not list any attorney for Lorenz in
the civil case. No hearing dates have been set, but
that was what she was writing, was her response to
the wrongful death suit.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Because I did see the headline and it made it
seem like it did. She just outright wrote a letter,
right and had the goal to like send this out
to the families and stuff like that, right.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Which I mean, what she wrote is ridiculous, but she
did do it. And in response to the wrongful death
suit that's they filed again.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
She should respond.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
But here's my question though, I mean, filing a wrongful
death suit against her, what what are you going to?
She's in prison for twenty five years and the woman
doesn't have any assets, so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Maybe she has U renderous insurance?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Does insurance cover look up?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
All right?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Thanks guys for listening to our update episode. As always,
we appreciate it, and you can find us on our
own feed, so make sure you follow us there and
make sure you leave a review. So thanks so much
for listening.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Thank you people,
Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
will be your host Emily Simpson. And I'm sorry I
forgot to say and and Shane, you forgot I was
in the right. I forgot you were here. Okay. So
we're going to do some updates on some cases that
we have spoken about previously. And one of my favorite
cases ever is the Karen Reid case, which we did.
(00:24):
We did a couple episodes on Karen Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Because it did one big episode and we talked about
it in another time, right.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
But I love talking about Karen Reid because there's just
so much to talk about. It's an unsolved mystery. I
don't think we'll ever know actually what happened that night.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
But who do you think did it?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well? I I think that possibly something happened inside that
house with the dog and the police officer.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh okay, so you think it was not Karen and
you think it was a police officer.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I think something happened to him inside that house and
then there was a cover up. That's that's what I
take away from it. But Karen Reid is not out
of the new anymore. There's been some new things going
on with Michael Proctor. And if you will remember, Michael
Proctor is the lead investigator during the case.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
At a conflict of interest or show.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yes, he was the one that had the text messages
that were inappropriate, and so he was actually fired and
then he appealed his firing. But then now some new
evidence or some new things have come up, so more
cases involving Michael Proctor are under review. This was an
NBC Boston article. Recent court documents show the Norfolk County
(01:31):
District Attorney's office has examined nearly twenty cases involving former
Massachusetts State Police trooper Michael Proctor. I'm not surprised that
the number is high. Before we're done, it might even
go higher, said NBC ten Boston legal analyst Michael Coin.
See now that's the problem because now what happens is
(01:52):
these defense attorneys that defended their clients and now all
this evidence is coming forward that was inappropriate that has
to do with these cases. Does that give them, depending
on what they're finding, a mistrial or a reason to appeal?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, well yeah, I don't know. That's a tough one
because where those defendants found guilty of their crimes, where
they found not guilty, they're not guilty. Ones aren't going
to like, well.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
They're not going to say a word. They're gonna be
really quiet. Prosecutors were ordered to review a federal investigation
of the Read case and turn over any evidence beneficial
to other defendants whose cases involved the former state trooper.
The cases were identified as part of a document involving
Brian Walsh, who was charged with killing and dismembering his wife,
Anna Walsh. Proctor investigated that case as well. Anytime that
(02:42):
you can use some of these mistakes that he's made
to help put doubt in the minds of a juror,
that is precisely what they're supposed to do. This is
what the legal analyst said. So it's unclear what if
any information was given to the defendants, with a lot
of the details coming from Proctor's cell phone. Here's what
I don't understand about Proctor. So first of all, they
got the inappropriate text directly from his phone, right, they
(03:04):
did like a forensic analysis, but he had deleted a
lot of things. So now this deeper dive with all
this new evidence coming forward, is because they've I don't know, like,
I'm not a cell phone expert. Clearly.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
No, you're just a legal podcast.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, I'm just a lowly legal podcast person. But wouldn't
someone that was a police officer, detective investigator understand that
he was if he's deleting things off his phone, that
they can still find it in the cloud.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, but my yes, my guess would be they delete
it so on its face value, it's not there. So
if someone were to look at their phone or something,
I don't think they deleted it thinking it's gone forever
and ever. But why why didn't just think about it
that far. It's sort of like wiping up blood. You
wipe it up. Yeah. Can you put the luminol or
(03:51):
whatever and find it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, I know. I like that word luminol.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'll turn you on.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yes, I like luminol.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So then, but people maybe clean it just on the
surface level, so someone will walk through they don't see it.
Maybe if someone were to look at his phone, they
wouldn't see.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So you're saying he hands over his phone they find Okay,
well there we go.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Proctor had been fighting to get his job back until
last month, when Norfolk County Prosecutors admitted in a court
filing that his personal cell phone data contained images of
intimate body parts. I would like more details on that. Please.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Do you want the intimate body part?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I want to I would like to see the images.
I want to know what we're talking about about intimate
body parts?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Google intimate?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Are we talking about the images you see?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Is it genitalia? Is that what he has photos of?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Probably? What else is intimate?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I don't know. I didn't know if it meant like
a close up of an ear? Is that an intimate
body part? No, now you're being silly, No one, No,
I meant I intimate. I know, I'm seriously. Does intimate
mean like it was like a close up of body parts?
Or does intimate mean? Okay, you're just staring.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
This explains a lot emily you not knowing what an
intimate part is.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Keep going, okay. The union that represents state police troopers
declined to continue paying for his lawyer, and Proctor withdrew
his request to be reinstated to the department. All right,
So that's our update on Karen Reid. We'll continue to
follow that because I think there's so many more things
that are going to come out about Michael.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Proctor and do you think Michael Proctor had to do
with it or do you think he was just fumbling
the uh like the prosecution and investigation of it. No.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I think he's just inappropriate And I think that he
was sharing images probably with friends and stuff from all
these cases he's investigating.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Okay, so after the crime was committed.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Or during I don't know, while he's investigating. Because while
he was investigating Karen Reid, he was sending photos of
her in text talking. Remember he was like talking about her,
didn't you make comments about her? She's hot, but she
doesn't have an ass and like things like that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh that was him that said that, Yes, Yes, that
was him.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
So I'm saying we already know that he sends highly
inappropriate text messages unprofessional, right, But it wasn't just a
Karen Reid. It's now goes back to at least twenty
cases that he investigated. So now this is opening a
whole can of worms on all these cases. You think
these defense attorneys in those cases are chomping at the
bit wanting to get a hold.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Of Yeah, it's like what I've seen. I've seen situations
where a cop is found to be crop planning a
drug in a car and then arresting that person, right,
And then they go back and there's dozens that they
have to release because then they go look in the
same because now he has an mo right, it was
like bodycam footage the way he sneare snuck it in
and claimed it was in the car, and then they
can see that pattern. Now they go back and the
(06:32):
people were getting released like left and.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right, right. So I'm saying this is the tip of
the iceberg because now all these cases, they're gonna want
they're going to want to know what it was that
he was saying, what's he's sending, who's he's sending it to,
what are the photos? So anyway, all right, let's move
on to the Delphi murders. If you remember, we also
did a podcast on the Delphi case, which was the
murder of the two young girls in Delphi, Indiana. I've
(06:55):
always told you guys, my opinion is that I believe
they have the wrong man that is currently been convicted.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
You felt that the interrogation showed that he was a
pretty genuine, decent person that had nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
To do with the Well, that was my gut feeling,
and that was my takeaway when I watched the interrogations.
And then also I felt that that one little piece
of evidence. Remember they found that gunshot. It wasn't a shell,
it was the actual the case spent round, right, but
it had striations that like matched him in his house.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
But that was it. That's old school. That's like, oh,
this hair follicle matches this hair. I'm saying, I supposed
a DNA where it's a black exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
There was no DNA that was matched to him.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Was this a CBS technician that happened to be taking
a walk on a bridge.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yes, he's the guy that reached out and said, hey,
I was there that day. And then right, his name's
Richard Allen.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
You know well you know it. You know his wife's
a little bit at fault because she made him call.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yes, well, I'm sure she feels.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Like extremely guilty. This crime investigation's like you were there, honey,
you should call and tell them. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So a judge release more than twelve hundred pages of
exhibits from del High murderer Richard Allen's case on Monday,
then sealed the exhibits, which signals that Allan's appeal is
about a month from being filed. Several news outlets published
the exhibits, which have since been blocked from public inspection.
The Journal and Courier downloaded the file from Fort Wayne's
(08:26):
Wayne five website on Tuesday and verified the filing of
two hundred and one pages of exhibits on Wednesday through
sealed court documents that detailed the number of pages. The
specific content, however, was no longer accessible to the public.
Among the exhibits are an affidavit from Todd Klik, a
former Rushville assistant police chief who investigated the possible involvement
(08:49):
in the killings of Odness in the eastern part of Indiana.
And do you remember we talked about this. This was
one of the things I actually pulled up that document.
Not this this is on appeal, But there's another document
that his defense attorney filed before he went to trial
that he wanted to get an evidence that there was
third party possible guilt with this satan satanic cult because
(09:13):
of the the very.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You called it. You called it someday, there was a
terminology for it where like they lay the sticks down
or they.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I just said satanic ritual.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Okay, yeah, that's that's right.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But it was the crime scene. Remember, it was like
one of the bodies was found underneath the tree and
there was a marking above it, and then it had
sticks laid in a certain way on top. And then
the other girl they were found naked. The other girl
had branches laid on top of her and they were
symbols from this. And then remember the guards that were
guarding him were odinous and they had odin his patches
on them.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I mean, it was just that stuff was there before.
Now I think about it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
What the branch the branches they were laying on top
of the bodies.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, I missed the memo on that one. Well, the
reason I say that is because in high school, my friend,
he's not a murderer. My friend, he would be at
church early. There was an early class, right, and he
would get dropped up early because his mom dropped him
off early. And he sat there and waited untill we
(10:12):
all got there. And he carved in the concrete no fate.
But that was because he was a Terminator fan and
that Terminator two came out, so he carved in no fate.
He thought he was like tough and stuff. Yeah, Well,
that month, soon after someone committed suicide on the sidewalk
nearby where it said no fate by coincidence. Not a
member of the church, not affiliate, just just unfortunately someone
(10:35):
that was committed suicide did right there, and everyone thought
that he carved in no fate and then killed himself.
Oh so, so I didn't know if the sticks were there,
But now you're telling me that on top of the body.
So my point is moot.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yes, exactly, So thank you for that anecdote.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's still a good story though.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
The exhibits also included transcripts of Indiana State Police interviews
with Kathy Allen, who is Richard's wife. After Allan's arrest
on October twenty six of twenty twenty two, he was
ordered to be housed in the Westville Correctional Facility, where
at least two guards wore patches on their uniforms that
tied them to Odinism. According to these exhibits, Max Baker,
(11:14):
who worked for Allan's defense team, filed an affidavit stating
that he witnessed the oldness patches on prison guards uniforms,
as well as one patch that read I hate people.
I mean, I feel like I could wear a patch
that says that too. I don't have to be an oldist.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
You don't have to wear badge. People know it.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Oh that's true. I don't need a patch. My face
says it all.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Your voice says it all okay.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Baker also reviewed video images recorded by prison guards that
showed Allan, who was in Westville Prison for safekeeping, had
been badly beaten and had two black eyes. The exhibits
filed on Monday include documents detailing theories of Oldness and
Delphi and Logan Sport, suggesting that they might be involved
along with the Oldness on the east side of the state.
(11:54):
It included questions and depositions about police investigation of and
dismissal of the theory that the branches and limbs, as
well as the positioning of the bodies and the f
that was painted on a tree with Libby's blood all
tied back to Odinism. Now, if you remember when we
talked about this earlier, he had tried. The defense attorney
tried previously back in September of twenty twenty three to
(12:15):
present that lengthy memorandum about how they were killed in
an out and it might have been tied to human sacrifices, which.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Then would not have connected the CBS technician right right,
because he was in that stuff where he could argue that,
you know, he has no signs of that anywhere.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
But the judge denied it and would not allow any
of that evidence.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Probably because the judge is part of the Satanic.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Group that I mean could be allegedly.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Judges could be part of it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Allegedly, Yeah, okay, but no, no, they could be. Well,
anyone could be.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That doesn't need to be. That's why you don't need
see alleged.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, back to Richard Allen. So this is another way
to try to get that information.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And this is a genuine question. What's another explanation for
those sticks someone came up after? Like if it wasn't
the if the CBS, well, I don't know, how could
those sticks be there other than the murder putting it there?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
It had that's the only way, other than what some
girl scouts came along later and boy scouts and put
them on the bodies.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So that means if they're able to introduce this evidence
and then they're able to point out to the defendant
that he is not affiliated anyway, there's no signs, there's
no history, there's no social media. There's nothing that ties
this guy to these sticks or any sticks, then he
should there should be some doubt.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right. Well, that's why if the judge allows this to
come in on appeal, it raises a reasonable doubt, right,
exactly right.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I was just saying it.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And you know, also I was reading with this case,
and this is another reason I said this before. Before
I even read this, I never felt like this is
something that one man could have done, because you're talking
about two girls that both of them had their clothes rooms,
he went across the water, he had he readdressed them.
He had to.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, but I disagree. I'm not saying who did it,
but one person could do it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I did exercise control over two young girls and put
fear in them and get them to comply.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I just don't see how he could have done it
in the timeframe and with it being a public I
don't know it just.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I see your point. I'm just saying it can't happen.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I mean it could happen, I just don't see it happening.
And they did, the police investigating it did think it
was Originally when they were first investigating, they felt that
it was a two man or more.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, it could have been too.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Let's move on to the Murdall murders. This was another
one of my favorite podcasts because I this family was
well Alec Alec Murdall was just so corrupt that allegedly, no,
he was convicted. Yeah inside this. Okay, so this is interesting.
(15:04):
So there is a scathing letter that Alex Murdoch's and
people told me it's Alec even though there's an ex
it's Alec, and it's Murdoch, even though well that's how
they pronounce it, and.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
That I give him some respect here.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, I'm trying to pronounce his name correctly because that's
that's what I heard, that he puts the murder in Murdach. Yes.
So a housekeeper came forward and wrote, this was in people.
So Blanca Rbiate Simpson. Oh my gosh, her nat last
name Simpson Shane.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Wait is she your cousin, Donny?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Is she?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Uh? This isn't the housekeeper that he killed.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
No, this is another housekeeper.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Did he kill her?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Not yet? So Blanca was a US Navy veteran and
former corrections officer who started working as one of the
family's housekeepers in two thousand and seven and she wrote
a new tell all called Within the House of Murder
amid a unique friendship Blanca and Maggie. That is a
long title and an exclusive excerpt from the book, Simpson writes, Alex,
(16:10):
have you adapted to your new life? Is your bed
made to your satisfaction? Are the sheets soft against your
sensitive skin? Do they make your bed with freshly pressed
sheet and are tight enough to bounce a quarter off?
In another part of the letter, she writes, I often
ask myself, at what point did greed, ambition, and lack
of empathy overpower you? You had love, family, friendship, respect
and privilege. You had it all, and you decimated everything
(16:32):
when you decided nobody deserved to be better off than
your family. Saying that she feels betrayed by Alec, Simpson writes,
what happened to you? What happened to the man who
was always entertaining by cracking jokes? What happened to the
man who nurtured and cared for his family? At what
point did you become so unhappy in your life that
you decided to kill your wife and son? She also
(16:55):
opens up a host of unanswered questions when she writes
about seeing an unnamed woman at the family's estate known
as Mozelle after the funerals.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
She was unnamed.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Her name's Blanca. She's writing about. She's writing about after
the funeral, she saw some woman. She's saying he's having
an affair.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Okay, I know you said unnamed woman. Well she didn't know.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
She doesn't know her name. Okay, she just saw a
random woman. She's basically coming forward after she worked for
them in two thousand and seven. Now she can profit
from a book. So she's coming forward and she's writing
a book, a tell all about all the things that
she saw.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I'm unknown, yes, yeah, because she does have a name.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, she doesn't know her name.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Okay. She finishes the letter by writing, in part I
may never find the answers that bring me full closure,
but for now I am releasing the emotional burden of
your betrayal and focusing on my own healing, praying for you, Blanca.
So I guess she's writing a tell all book. And
then she includes a letter to Alec Murdoch.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And so that's where I have a I mean, just
for conversation purposes. I have a problem with that because
It's like if you have if you had a problem
with him and you saw him as dangerous. Assuming that's
the case, then why are you telling us now after
the murder?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Short because she worked for them and she made money
she kept from mouse shut and now that it's now,
you can make money from a book. All right, all right,
let's move on to Susan Lawrence. If you remember the
name Susan Lawrence, he's the perfect neighbor. He is the
perfect neighbor.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Good job hat a lady.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You hate that lady. Everybody hates that lady.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I don't know who.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well, I felt like the catfish mom was probably the
most hated woman in the world at that short in time.
But then Susan Lawrence came along, and now every she
took the title. Yes she did. So here we are
with Susan Lawrence again. A jury found Susan Lorenz guilty
of manslaughter after she shot a j Owens her locked
front door, killing her. This is back in June of
(18:45):
twenty twenty three. Lorenz was sentenced to twenty five years
in prison and has maintained that she was the victim
of harassment from Owen's and Owen's.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Children of course.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Owen's mother, Pamela Dias, filed a wrongful death suit against
both Lorenz and the owner of the quedplex quadplex, sorry,
the owner of the quadplex.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Would you call it a quadplex? It's not a quadplex.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It's a quad plex.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Sounds like it's easily he's suffering from quid plex.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
It's a quad plex where she lived. The suit says
that Charles Gabbard, who was the one who owned the property,
should have known that Lorenz had a propensity for gross
negligence and or intentional harm. You know, we talked about that.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's a little bit of a stretch, but I totally
think there's something there.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
There might be There might be that he was on
notice of the problems than that.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
She was maybe a little that's not your property, that's
common area, or did he tell her put a no
trespassing sign on there? Therefore he's supporting her and kicking
the kids out, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So I know the headlines with this update a lot.
It says like Susan Lorenz writes letter, you know, and
but what people don't understand is she's writing the letter
because she's writing the letter as a response to the
wrongful death suit.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So this is her actual I don't think she's supposed
to writing a nasty letter.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
She's not just writing a letter, she's actually this is
her response to the wrongful destiny. And I from my takeaway,
I don't think she's represented by counsel. It seems like, well,
she's an attorney because she's a doctor, right, so now
she's representing herself. It seems like so. In a handwritten
letter filed with the court, Lorenz responds to allegations in
the lawsuit and reiterates her accusations that Owen's and her
(20:27):
children were the aggressors. Lorenz claims that Owen's children would
come over to my apartment and do ding dong ditch.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know, how how can that justify murder? Obviously it
never just like it's like I know I killed her,
but these kids were reading my doorbell, they.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Were loud, and I know they were playing for.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Playing frisbee, Lorenz says in the letter, kiss off.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
She pisses everyone off. Lorenz says in the letter that
she wants to quote counter suit for slander, libel, and
defamation of character for damages that exceed fifty thou dollars
against Owen's mother.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
The body cams didn't defame her.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Character, right, so she wants to counter sue against Owen's mother,
the minor children, and the property owner. Lorenz's letter says
that the property owner failed to secure the property correctly
and allowed the victim and her children to harass her.
Lorenz closes the letter by writing, quote completion of fact
(21:25):
and expert discovery to follow.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So you know what, my advice to the landlord is
a better background check when you get some tenants.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I don't know that what what would show up? She
probably had no prior.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, you know what. You call the prior landlord where
she lived and say what was she a problem? And
they'd be like hell, yeah, you're saying background check.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Don't just like pull up a like a criminal background check.
You're saying, call an act act.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yes, what he personality is like absolutely yeah. And then
if you're like, all this lady like doesn't have a job,
isn't doing anything, and she has a I mean that's
a reason though.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Look you shouldn't have a shotgun. She had a handgun.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, it's no better.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Court records do not list any attorney for Lorenz in
the civil case. No hearing dates have been set, but
that was what she was writing, was her response to
the wrongful death suit.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Because I did see the headline and it made it
seem like it did. She just outright wrote a letter,
right and had the goal to like send this out
to the families and stuff like that, right.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Which I mean, what she wrote is ridiculous, but she
did do it. And in response to the wrongful death
suit that's they filed again.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
She should respond.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
But here's my question though, I mean, filing a wrongful
death suit against her, what what are you going to?
She's in prison for twenty five years and the woman
doesn't have any assets, so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Maybe she has U renderous insurance?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Does insurance cover look up?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
All right?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Thanks guys for listening to our update episode. As always,
we appreciate it, and you can find us on our
own feed, so make sure you follow us there and
make sure you leave a review. So thanks so much
for listening.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Thank you people,
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com