Legally Brunette: The Murder of Jennifer Dulos

Jennifer Dulos was a mother of five and the wife to an allegedly abusive husband. When their nanny realized Jennifer went missing one day in 2019, it was no surprise that her husband and his mistress became the primary suspects.

Emily and Shane dive into the many mistakes they made to cover up Jennifer’s murder & the question we’re all wondering… Where did they put her body?

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, guys, Welcome to a new episode of Legally Brunettes.
I will be your host Emily Simpson with my co
host Shane Shane. Okay, first of all, before we get
into the case we're going to talk about today, which
is the Jennifer Dulo's case, we have to talk about
Kim Kardashian not passing the bar exam. I feel like
it was it just happened. She made a statement. So

(00:24):
Kim Kardashian has revealed the result of her recent bar
exam as the reality TV star continues to pursue a
career in law. First of all, I have to say,
let me ask you your opinion, because you did take
the bar exam multiple times under the scrutiny, and first
of all, you had to take it up this same scrutiny,
not the same scrutiny, A low level of scrutiny. It
was the Bravo TV community scrutiny. She's taking it. And

(00:47):
it's a how many followers does she have on Instagram?
Like three hundred million or something, right, I mean that's
a lot of eyes on her. So what do you think, like,
what is that? What do you think to go to
have to take something at that big and then the
whole world knows about it. You have no opinion, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, it sucks for her, okay, but but you got
to think about it. She's worth nearly two billion dollars.
She's got a skims company, which is huge. I'm sure
that's very time consuming. As much as she wanted wanted
to be all the public appearances. How many kids does
she have? I think for yeah, and then she has
to deal with Kanye right, so she's got a lot

(01:29):
and a reality show. Oh and she's she's playing a
bad actress on it the Lawyer movie you watch or
show you watch? Yes, also, so she's got a lot
going on. It's amazing that she even wants to do this.
I don't know why she wants to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
You know, I don't either, But but like you said,
she's worth two billion dollars. But you have to give
her credit for wanting to do it and saying that
she's going to do it again. I know it takes
a lot, I know, of guts to publicly put yourself
out there.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
To say comments of people making Joe set her expense
or criticizing her, But it didn't stop her so you know,
good for her.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
So Kim wrote via her Instagram stories on Saturday, November eighth, Well,
I'm not a lawyer yet. I just play a very
well dressed one on TV. Six years into this law
journey and I'm still all in until I pass the bar.
No shortcuts, no giving up, just more studying and even
more determination. Thank you to everyone who has supported and
encouraged me along the way. Falling short isn't a failure,

(02:27):
it's fuel. I was so close to passing the exam
that only motivates me even more. Let's go. Do you
think she was close?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Who knows? The scores don't come out that early. She
posted it before scores came out.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
When did the scores come out?

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I don't think they come out to like Monday or
something like that, like the week after, or they get
mailed to you, I think, Or I don't know, but
I don't remember the scores coming out. It's just pass
or fail. On the friday that you check the results,
you punch in your number. It either says you're there
or says your name cannot be found. It doesn't give
you results. So I don't know how she knew that.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Unless she had some she's like special insider.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
She cheated, but apparently not good enough. Maybe.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
No, there was no way you can't cheat on the
can of bar exam. There's no way possible.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
But the only person that took a private jet to
take the California.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Bar or a private helicopter, she just landed on a
helipad and then went in the back door.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
I mean they obviously she took the baby bar too.
She had to take that a couple of times and
she didn't stop. Yeah, so the baby bar is when
you go to a non licensed school or what she did,
which was some mentoring program to take the baby bar
a year into it as a couple of subjects, and
she took that a couple of times and she passed it.
So she didn't quit on that one. Yeah, and I

(03:45):
kind of thought she would have.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Let's just talk for a second about her new HULO show.
It's called all Hulu. I said, who said Hulo, not
Hulo Hulu Hulu show it's called All's Fair. I'm sure
the term all All's fair is taken from the what
is the line All's fair? In love and war?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Right? So yes?

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I started watching it and it was so bad and
so campy. But I do have to admit that not
only I watched the whole thing, there were three episodes
that were released, and I watched all three. I think
I stayed up till three o'clock in the morning watching
all three episodes. So the acting, her acting, it's just there.

(04:25):
There's no acting, it's just her, Like how she is
in a reality show is just basically like how she
is on this scripted television show. Also, her outfits. There
is an outfit where she actually has a thong coming
out the back of her suit and you can see
the thong, and I'm like, what lawyer dresses like that?
It reminds me of Sex in the City. The second

(04:45):
movie where I feel like they just they threw out
the script. They were like, they were like, we don't
need content or good or good writing. We just will
wear fabulous outfits and go to the Middle East. And
I feel like that's kind of what they did with
All's Fair. They were like, all we need is Kim
Kardashi and some fabulous outfits and a ridiculous private jet
that looks like the inside of a of a Vegas hotel,

(05:09):
and that's all we need to make good TV.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
And so and and you and here you.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Are and I watch it. I did all right.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Lastly, Yeah, I'm kind of secretly glad she didn't pass
because if she passed, everyone would be like.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
What making fun of you? Yeah, they'd be like, Shane,
Shane couldn't pass it. But Kim Kardashian pass exactly.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, thank you, Kim.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yes, Shane feels better because of that. Well, we wish
Kim Kardashian luck. I hope she does eventually pass it.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
I do, yeah, and then I'll be submitting my job application.
You're gonna work for her? What are you gonna do?
Whatever she wants?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Oh my goodness. Okay, let's move on to the Jennifer
Doulos case. Jennifer. First of all, let me say I
have watched multiple things on this case. I think there's
something on Hulu. There's also been twenty twenties datelines, et cetera.
I don't know what it is, but this is one
of those cases. I watch a lot of true crime,
but I will tell you this is one of those
cases that just always stuck in my mind. I would

(06:11):
just always think of it. I kind of I don't
know why. Jennifer Dulos is just always It just always
stayed with it.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
So you've you've known about this case for a while.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, I have. I've known about it for a while.
I've watched things on it. I've watched a couple different
documentary type of shows on it, and I don't know,
it just always stayed with me. So I'm I'm so,
let's go into it.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
So.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Jennifer Farbar Dulos was a fifty year old mother of
five from New Canaan, Connecticut. She vanished on May twenty fourth,
in twenty nineteen after dropping her children off at school.
Jennifer was reported missing after she failed to show up
to several appointments and no one hadn't been able to
reach her for about ten hours. When officers checked Jennifer's home,
they found what appeared to be bloodstains on the floor

(06:51):
in the garage and on a vehicle parked inside. Police
would later find Jennifer's SUV located three miles away, but
there was no sign of her. During the investigation, police
obtained surveillance footage that showed her a strange husband photos Dulos,
who is Greek, and his mistress, Michelle Trecanis in and

(07:13):
around Hartford, Connecticut. The night of Jennifer's disappearance, they made
multiple stops dumping garbage bags into various bins throughout the city.
Police recovered these bags and found bloody clothing, cleaning supplies,
and sponges containing Jennifer's DNA. Her disappearance quickly became one
of the most high profile criminal cases in Connecticut, centering

(07:33):
around a bitter divorce and a bitter custody battle with
the children. Maybe it stuck with me because I think
when you start digging into the case and you watch it,
it shows, you know, all this aerial footage of her
home and his home, and he was a builder or developer,
and these are these huge, multi million dollar, beautiful homes
in this East Coast area of the United States. She's like.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Crime, right, I mean, like who beautiful.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
I'm talking like ten thousand square foot fifteen thousand square
foot homes on like sprawling land with five children. And
she's very attractive, and he's very attractive, and they're educated
and in their ages. Well she's fifty when she disappeared,
Oh she was.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
How old were their children? Do you know? I'm the
two daughters, right, I think.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Well, there's five kids altogether five. Okay, that's all right,
let's just talk about a little bit about who Jennifer
Doulos is. And May of twenty twenty five, a book
titled Murder in the Dollhouse The Jennifer Dulos Story was
written by Richard Cohen, a prolific journalist and author of
fourteen books. Cohen sketches the origin story of Jennifer Farber Dulos,
who is the niece of Liz Claiborne, an American fashion

(08:43):
designer and businesswoman, and the beloved daughter of a wealthy financier.
Before becoming a mother of five, Jennifer worked as a
playwright in New York City. Cohen pointed to her dream
of creating a life sized dollhouse for the inspiration behind
the title of his book. She had obsession with dollhouses
when she was a little girl, Cohen said, she had

(09:03):
this idea of creating a real dollhouse and building this
fantasy for real. In fact, that decor of her first
adult apartment had included an empty baby crib, so when
she was still unattached at thirty five, she began to panic.
At the time of her disappearance, Jennifer believed in curating
a dream domestic life, a dream that Colin believes she
was struggling with giving up. I think that's another reason

(09:24):
why she ended up in this bad marriage. I think
she had this idyllic idea of what she wanted her
life to be. And he was this good looking guy,
and he was Greek, and he was this builder and developer,
and they built this big, huge, beautiful home. And she
had this fantasy with dollhouses and creating this perfect image.
And I think in the back of her mind she

(09:45):
probably knew that.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
This was a What was the falling out of the
marriage for.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, I think he was controlling and violent throughout the marriage,
and then I think she just continued to ignore or
hope that he changed or you.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Know, so was this It was just budding heads And
I mean it wasn't like there was an affair or
something shady or why don't he wasn't like being lost or.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well he kept borrowing money from her parents. She had
wealthy parents. I believe her dad was a bank owned
a bank.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Was he was he No, he was Greek.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
I believe he got that.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
I believe he was an emigrant that came to the
United States, and that he married her. He married into
a wealthy family, and I think he had a lot
of ambition and he wanted to make a lot of money.
I believe he borrowed a lot of money from her
father or her family.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
But was he his business like viable like he was no.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
From what I understood in these and a lot of
these documentaries, I watched that he was losing money. He
was a developer and he kept building these. He played
the role of a big developer, but he kept having
to borrow money from her family to pay debts, and
I think he was always in debt, and I don't
know if he was actually making money. She was the
one though, Oh.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
So then yeah, okay, So then you have a divorce here,
and then she's going to still be okay financially, right
at least based on what you just said. Then he's
going to be screwed and he's probably gonna lose his
job in business.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
So two thousand and three to two two thousand and four,
Jennifer Farber and Photos Dulos relationship begins. So in the
December of two thousand and three, Jennifer runs into photos Dulos,
who is currently married at an Aspen Airport. Jennifer and
Photos had attended Brown at the same time, but never
had a relationship. Photos emails Jennifer tests, are you there,
that's very romantic? M hm. In March of two thousand

(11:22):
and four, photos Dulos files for divorce from his first wife.
He officially signs the divorce papers in July of four,
and then in August of four, less than one month later,
Photos Dulos marries Jennifer Farber and they end up having
five children together, two sets of twins and one son.
Then we get to twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. This

(11:42):
is the marital breakdown. This is when it really starts
to you know, you.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Always want to go south. The first spouse. Yeah, they're like, dang,
I escape that one. I'm glad that I didn't have
kids with that guy. I'd be dead now, right.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
So in June of twenty seventeen, Jennifer Farber Dulos files
for divorce from her been, citing fear for her safety.
She accuses him of controlling behavior, threats, and having an
affair with Michelle Trecanus, one of his employees at his company,
which was called Four Group. Incorporated in twenty seventeen to
twenty nineteen, so this is a two year A bitter

(12:17):
custody battle unfolds. Jennifer has granted temporary sole custody of
their five children, with photos getting limited to supervise visitation.
Court records show Jennifer repeatedly expressed fear that photos would
harm her. So clearly he's exhibiting. I mean that he's
not only controlling, but he's viola as well. I think

(12:37):
in the documentary they are. In some of the things
that I watch, they talk about I believe he like
drove a truck at her really like fast, like he
was going to hit her. He like strangle or grabbed
her by her neck. I think there was like some stalking,
refollowder and allegations like that. And they have five children,
so clearly in regards to money and child support, he

(13:01):
wants the kids as much as possible. Correct.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And probably because he's worried, fear full
for his business. If her parents, if his in laws
are actually helping on the business side, they might pull
from that. I was just looking up she was fifty seven.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well, no, she'd be fifty seven now. She was fifty
she was fifty in twenty nineteen. Met okay, so tell
me the ages of the kids when she around the
time that she has the.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Time of her disappearance, which we know it was the death.
She had five kids, he said, two sets of twins
and at Singleton and all between the ages of eight
and thirteen. So they lost their mother at the age
of between eight and thirteen and then their father going
to jail.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
So in twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen we were talked
about a bitter custody battle unfolds, and the custody battle
obviously he wants as much custody as possible because he
wants her to pay child sport. I would assume she's
the one that's financially secure. She's the one that has
the wealthy parent. She's the one you know that's going
to be fine.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
He's got the upper hand in that area of finance
and playment.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
But she's clearly been able to prove to a court
that he is violent because he has supervised visitations, which
I'm sure has just pushed him to Oh, I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
I mean, he probably well deserved, but man, that has
got to be really a blow to the ego.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Right, So I would say, as a man and having
five children and wanting as much custody as possible because
you want as much child support as possible, or he
doesn't and then to have to have supervised visits, or.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Just he's he's a madman and he does rather killer
than deal with anything at all, because clearly when they
were married he tried to run her over with a
truck or whatever.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
So Thursday May twenty third, twenty nineteen, Jennifer attends a
school event with her children in New Canaan. She exchanges
texts and emails with friends that evening and everything seems
normal and she's making plans for the weekend. On Friday,
May twenty fourth, tw nineteen, this is the last day
that Jennifer's ever seen alive. Eight am Jennifer drops her

(15:05):
children off at New Canaan Country School. At eight oh
five am, Jennifer returns to her rented home at sixty
nine Wells Lane. At ten twenty five am, Jennifer misses
her children's orthodontia's appointments, which is uncharacteristic for her. You know,
she has a nanny that takes care of the kids
as well, and the nanny was also very frightened of

(15:25):
the potus. Do you have photus?

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (15:28):
And then nanny is the one who repeatedly tries to
get a hold of her, and she's not answering her phone,
which she said has never ever happened, that she's never
not been able to get a hold of her. And
also she doesn't show up at the Orthodonna's appointment to
meet her with the children. Then the nanny knows immediately
that she.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Had an appointment that day, the day of her disappearance.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, I just said that, Yeah, yeah, it was the
same day. It was the same day she had, well
it was the children had Ordonna's appointment.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, but she dropped him off at school in the morning.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
She dropped him off at school in the morning, and
then the nanny had them later in the day, and
then the nanny was taking them to an orthodonots But
where she was meeting up with.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
The nanny after school? Okay, confused, I thought was during school.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
So the nanny gets worried and calls the police to
report Jennifer missing. This is around eleven AM. At seven pm,
police locate Jennifer's black Chevy Suburban abandoned on Lapham Road
near Waveney Park. Inside her home, detectives find blood splatter
and evidence of an attempted cleanup, later confirmed as Jennifer's blood.
So when they go back and they search her house,

(16:27):
I remember that the nanny said that she had just
she remembered that she had just opened a brand new
role of like those paper towels from Costco where you.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Have multiple rolls of multi pack.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Multi pack, right, and she had put them in the cabinet.
And then later that day when the police were searching,
there was only like two rolls left, which meant he,
what are there like twelve rolls in there or something?

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, I don't, oh yeah, So that means eight six
were missing, right.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
So someone had gone through multiple rolls of paper towels
within that short period of time. So that evening surveillance
cameras capture photos Dulos and his girlfriend Michelle trecanis driving
a Ford Raptor pickup truck through Hertford. They are seen
making over thirty stops, thirty stops, thirty.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Stops at like different locations each time.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, disposing of garbage bags along Albany Avenue.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Almost dumber because now there's thirty locations where that DNA
is spread around, right, And I don't know thirty opportunities
to have you on camera or witnesses.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
I don't understand how you wouldn't think that there would
be some type of surveillance camera that would pick that up.
This is in twenty nineteen, it's not like we're talking
about the eighties or nineties before, you know. I mean,
we're talking.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Digital footprint everywhere, right.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
And he has a cell phone, which is like, you know,
putting him in all these da.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
I always say, and it's hard to have him, but
people wouldn't commit crimes and think they were going to
get away with it. So he didn't kill her and
then not know how to get and then worry he
wasn't going to get away with it. He knew he
planned this, Right, we're going to get into it, but
he planned it.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Wasn't like it was the moment, right, It wasn't like
they got in a fight.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
So he plans it, And if he planned it, that
means he thought this plan was full proof.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
That's when you're a narcissist.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Oh well, clearly, what do you want to say? He's
a killer? And you're yeah, that's we got a bigger problem.
He's a murderer.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
You're saying, killer goes first. At the end.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Of the day, he killed someone, so who cares what
the diagnosis.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
But I'm saying the part of where you you just
honestly believe that you're selling.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Don't like the word narcissist.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
I know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
You'll call me a narcissist, and then you call this
murder narcissist. So I'm in the same category as potus.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
No, you're not. I'm saying he's a narcissist killer, but
I'm saying the reason that he thinks he's going to
get away with it is because he finds himself to
be so much more legent and better than everyone else,
which is a trade of narcissism. That that's what leads
them to do it, because he doesn't he can't fathom
the idea that he would get caught.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Right That, okay, was a long way of saying what
I just said.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Okay. So June through December of twenty nineteen, arrests and
evidence start building. So in June first of twenty nineteen,
Photus Dulos and Michelle Trecanas are arrested and charged with
tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution. Both were held on
a five hundred thousand dollars bond. The arrest came after
investigators descended onto two locations connected to photos and his company.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
The four Group.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
According to the arrests warrant, there were several blood saints
found on the garage floor in Jennifer's home, and that
blood was found in Potus's garage when officials looked as well.
The warrant had said that Photus's phone had pinged him
traveling back and forth between two properties he owns in
Farmington throughout the day on May twenty fourth. You know, also,
I believe what happened. I think he had a very

(20:01):
elaborate plan. He ended up like riding a bicycle.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
No, no, no, he well, partly true. Yeah, he borrowed a
truck right from.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
One employee, sang right from an employee.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
And he drove it there at her house. So, because
that was when I was reading up on this, I realized, like,
why is he doing that? But then she's not living,
they're not living together day right, he lives, So he
parked his car in front of her house, she'd know,
and he's violent and whatever. So he borrowed a truck,
parked wait for her, waited for her. She comes, he
does whatever, you'll discuss it. Then when he goes, and

(20:36):
then he uses her vehicle to to place what three
miles away from the house or whatever, as a distraction.
Then he there's cameras of her car being driven at
ten twenty five am, but she's not driving it. He is.
Then there's I think there's cameras of him riding a
bicycle back to the house and getting in the employees
truck and leaving.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Where did he park the employee's truck though, somewhere.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Hidden, like across the street or something. That didn't say,
but the idea was it was an unrecognizable truck. So
then when she came home from taking kids to school,
he knew he knew the kids' schedule, right, so he
knew when she was going to be home. So she
comes home.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
And he's hiding in the garage. Yeah, and then waiting
he's lying in wait.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, no, exactly right. Yeah, he's a psycho, oh sorry, narcissist.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
And psycho yeah, and murder yeah. So June eleven, twenty nineteen,
Photus and traconas that's a girlfriend. Are released on bond
in September of twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Six million dollars bond. By the way, So I don't
know where.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
He got that money, probably because he has properties. I
don't know if he put it up for collateral or something. Yes,
Photos is taken into custody once more, and the arrest warrant.
State Police said that Treconis admitted back on June second
that she could not account for potus whereabouts on the
morning Jennifer went missing. The warrant also stated that Photos
and Traconas were wrote alibi scripts detailing where they were,

(22:02):
but Treconis reportedly later stated the details were false. At
the time, police also believed that Photos had driven Jennifer's
suburban with her body inside, along with items to help
clean up the evidence. Then we get to January of
twenty twenty. Photos Dulos is charged with felony murder, kidnapping,
and murder. He was held on a six million dollar bond.

(22:23):
That's what you were talking about. It was held on
a six million dollar bond the second time he gets arrested.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Okay, it's a second time. Sorry, So I just find
that always funny. It's like innocent before proven guilty, but
you probably did it, So six million dollars because it's
going to run away.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Well, the first time he gets arrested, he's charged with
tampering with evidence.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Because it was just the hindering the relocations he had
been in put moving the car, parking it far away,
say there's no body using up paper towels.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yes, using a lot of paper towels to clean up
a crime scene. So the first time he's arrested, it's
only with tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution. That's why
it's a six hundred thousand dollars bond, and he gets
on bond easily, and Traconis does too.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
The girlfriend, she was in the car when they were
running around.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
And that's the problem with not being able to locate
a body, which is what we talked about earlier in
the Crystal Rogers case, Like her body's never been discovered.
No either, So there's no body, but there was enough.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Blood my understanding was enough blood that the expert testimony
saying it was likely death. Right.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
So then later when he gets arrested for the second time,
when he gets arrested because now they have enough evidence, right,
they've been building a case. They've been they've been interviewing
Traconas and they're getting you know, her statements which contradictory,
conflicting statements, right, And they're pulling up his his forensics
on his phone, and they have all the surveillance of
him and the experts with the blood saying that she's

(23:43):
likely to do.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
So how do you get involved with she was an
employee of his? Yeah, I mean it's like, Hey, my
wife's leaving me because she's accusing me of beating her
up and driving her over with the truck, and you
want to murder her with me? Yeah? Okay, No, No.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's like I'll do the actual murder. I just need
you to help me dispose of everything.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, I get passengers so we can get in the
carpool lane. Please these thirty I got thirty places to go.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
You know, I don't understand the kind of woman that
is so in love with someone or so in It's
not love, it has to be infatuation. Right. He's a
good looking guy. I don't Yeah, I mean he's Yeah,
he's a good looking guy. But that's not enough for
me to commit what is I mean? It would have
to be more than just a good.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Looking so there so there is a number.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
There might be so when he's arrested the second time
for felony murder, kidnapping, and murder, he is held on
a six million dollar bond. Michelle Traconis was arrested in
charge with conspiracy to commit murder. Kent Mawinny this is
his attorney, So Kent Mwenney got it.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
I gotta look this guy up.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
You're yeah, Kent Mawenny is photos Doulos's attorney. It's not
I don't think it's his defense attorney.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
He's last name Mwennie.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
It's m A w h I n n e y.
He's not his defense attorney. He's just like his attorney.
I don't know if in real estate transactions or like
a friend that's an attorney.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah. Well, let's see what kind of law he practiced.
He so.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Kent Maweney, who was a friend and lawyer for Potus,
was also charged with conspiracy to commit murder with them
and Mwennie's warrant. His name appeared in both Traconis's and
photuses alibis for the morning Jennifer was reported missing. Mlweni
was interviewed twice by police afterwards. So what did they think?
They think if they write out these alibis that are

(25:29):
that match each other, like, let's ride out alibis. That'll
be fun. It'll be like a fun date night. We'll
go out to dinner and we'll write our matching alibis.
And I know, let's use my friend who's a lawyer,
because that gives him credibility or gives us credibility. If
a lawyer says that he was also with us and
saw us that morning, and then what lawyer agrees to
be a part of that Kent Kent First officials said

(25:54):
he claimed there was no meeting scheduled between Photos and
himself on the morning of Jennifer's disappearance. In a second interview,
he reportedly stated that there was a pre arranged meeting
with Photus, stating he arrived at Photos's home just before
eight am, where he stood for almost an hour before
leaving without seeing him. The warrant said phone record showed

(26:14):
Mowenni had called Photus the night of May twenty fourth,
when Photos was allegedly dumping bloody bags of evidence in Hartford,
but Mowenni denied any phone contact with Photos that day. See,
that's another thing I don't understand. This guy is an attorney,
and he doesn't understand that they can get the forensics
off of his phone to show that he made multiple
phone calls, or where the phone calls were made from,

(26:35):
or where his cell phone is pinging.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, and I bet you he passed the bar the
first time. I don't make a difference. He still be a.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Crap MOWENNI had been arrested before. Well, so this is
he's clearly has very high ethical standards.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
I just looked him up. He's in real estate law,
in like construction law.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
I don't know. Yeah, so this guy was obviously an
attorney that Photos had used that he'd become friendly with.
He's not a stand up guy. He's been arrested previously.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
And then he gets stupid. Is thought like, oh, attorney
client privilege. I just I can't say anything, So I'll
do a lot of the work and then they'll ask
me and I won't tell him anything. He's probably that
stupid and doesn't yet.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
But they interviewed him twice saying that contradicts himself. He
can't even keep a story straight, and he's he agrees
to be part of this alibi. So Photuses and Michelle
Treconis's alibi is that they had a meeting with this guy,
this real estate.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I don't know what people are. He's just hoping for
more business from this client. I mean, I don't know.
It's one thing to take your client out to dinner
and host them somewhere. It's another thing to help him
commit murder and can cover it up.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
So.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Mawhinney had been arrested before.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
He says, how does this Photus guy get these people
so committed? He's got this girlfriend that's helping him out,
this attorney that's helping him out. He is getting the
in laws to fund his development business.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
He's smooth. He's smooth. He's a smooth character.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
I can't even get you to make me a turkey
pot pie. I know this guy is he could sell
a book.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, so again, I've read this line like five times now.
Moweni had been arrested previously. He's facing an allegation of
sexual assault and was charged with violating a protective order
filed by his estranged wife. See that's what they have
in common, That's where that's it. They bond over they

(28:25):
bond over the violence towards their previous spouses. She also
stated that she believed that Maweni was trying to kill her.
Oh see, that's his ex wife. Sate states that also
in Mowenie's arrest warrant, the Windsor Rod and Gun Club
was mentioned. Two members were reportedly hunting on the land
when they came across a large hole in the ground
that appeared to be hidden. One of the members described

(28:47):
the hole as one human grave. You know, the place was.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Six feet by two feet in the dimensions. Yeah, I
don't know about depth, but that was it. And it
was lined with a tarp.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, but they did not find any human remains, but.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
It was lined with the tarp and limestone lime juice.
I was like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Where is that part of the murder limestone? It's it
covers up I believe the decay and the smell so
that animals don't dig it up. That's why you have
to use the limestone. But they you are not a
good murderer because you would be using lime juice and
pride in not being a good murder That's good, all right,
But anyway, this human grave that they came across it
did not have any human remains in it, So I

(29:32):
don't know if they pre dug it. And that was
the plan. That was where they were going to get
rid of her body, and then something happened and they
ended up not burying her there.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
And then and then he was pinged around that area.
He said, right, yeah, I mean it was it was
a little And then I read that he after the disappearance,
he never went to the club.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Again, Lotus or the attorney.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
The attorney, so it's like they were there. He was there,
he was floating around there was there a lot like
heavily and then boom vanished.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, because he dug a murder hole and he doesn't
want to be a there.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
We call a murder hole a murder hole, shallow.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Grave, a shallow grave. So in January twenty eighth of
twenty twenty, Photus fan it might.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Have been for his ex wife.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Oh you mean too holes?

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Was it too hold? I think so, I don't know.
That might have been for his ex wife.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Which you're talking about photuses attorney's attorney's X wife. Yeah,
so their plant that's what they bought.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Maybe that was that was part two of their big plan.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
They were going to bury both women there.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, or I don't know, because where is Jennifer? We
don't know, we don't know. So clearly they had a
better hiding spot for her.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, but they had the better height eating spot was
a last minute hiding spot, and they did they dumpsters.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
I don't know they it's at least they put the
evidence in the.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
They put the evidence of the murder in the dumpsters.
But her body has never been located right this way.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
That's because if there was thirty locations that he dumped
stuff in, they probably didn't retrieve it in time, Like
if they find out days later that they're tracking his whereabouts,
but then they go and the dumpsters are gone by then,
so it's too late.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, but they found the evidence that he dumped in
those dumpsters, not all thirty.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
You're gonna tell me. They went to all thirty, retrieved thirty.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
So you're saying that he could have dumped the body
in one of those dumps right.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
I've thought this all along, that they didn't get to
some of the dumpsters in time, and some they did, But.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
I feel like they would have searched the dump site
where those dumpsters.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, like a five square foot or square five square
mile radius.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
They had before I've seen please.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, And sometimes they find you, sometimes they don't.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
All right. In January twenty eighth of twenty twenty, Photos
fails to appear in court. Police find him unconscious at
his home in Farmington after attempting to take his own
life by inhaling poisonous carbon monoxide inside his Farmington, Connecticut home.
Photos allegedly had handwritten a suicide note, which was attained
obtained by ABC News, which he addressed to all, dear All.

(31:56):
It was littered with self serving statements to clear his
entraconus his names. He said, if you are reading this,
I am no more. I refuse to spend even an
hour more in jail for something I had nothing to
do with. He had nothing to do with it. However,
he's on video dumping bloody, bloody, bloodyel cowels and into dumpsters, and.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
His DNA was mixed in some of the blood right.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
In thirty different locations. But the fact that this man
has the audacity to write a suicide note saying here's
what I got to do with it is beyond me.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, here's what I got out of it. He committed
suicide so quickly after being charged. That makes me think
his lawyer or whatever he looked it up and thought,
oh man, the evidence is against me. I'm dead. I'm
going to jail. So he killed himself. It's not like
he tried to fight it. He went to trial and
then he was sentenced and he thought, I can't live

(32:50):
like this. He did it in the beginning because you
would fight it. You would try if you truly didn't
have anything to do with it, you would try to
fight it. Wouldn't be so quick yourself.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, I mean, he took himself out because knew. Yeah,
because he knew he was guilty, and he knew he
was going to go to prison, he was going to
get a death penalty. I don't know if there's a
death penalty.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
And together going to come see him, you know. And
I just looked it up. There was two shallow grays
Doug at the gun club. Okay, so it's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
That is too. Yeah, wow, maybe the attorney. Maybe there
was further plans for the attorney to also eliminate his wife,
and that's why they said. I know, but now that
you said there were that there was definitely two shallow graves.
That makes me think limestone, limestone, not lime juice. We're
not making fajitas. It's limestone. Yeah no, But that makes
me think that maybe that was the connection that allowed

(33:40):
the two of them.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Spouses right, Why.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Would they Why would you dig a shallow grave at
a gun club where there's a lot of people hunting
and walking around.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
It might have been large property or something, or who knows,
why would you kill your spouses? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
I have lots of questions about that. I don't know.
So and he says, if you're reading this, I am
no more. Refuse to spend even an hour more in
jail for something I had nothing to do with. I
wanted to be known that Michelle Trecanas had nothing to
do with Jennifer's disappearance, and neither did Kent. Kent wasn't
involved here. I just want everyone to know that. He
goes on to write, my attorney can explain what happened

(34:15):
with the bags out on Albany Avenue, and also ads,
please let my children know that I love them. I
would do anything to be with them, but unfortunately we
all have our limits. The state will not rest until
I rot in jail. I don't know what his attorney
was going to explain he had to do with the
bags and that he dumped in the thirty different locations.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
But I don't know. It's bad when your attorney can't
represent you because he's also being indicted with the murder charges.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Well, he's referring to his defense attorney was Cantry.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
He had to go get a defense attorney because because
Kent was also being charged.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Right, So January thirtieth of twenty twenty, this is two
days after photos is found unconscious at his home. He
does end up dying and New York hospital.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Wait, did you mention how he committed suicide? Right?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, he did the carbon I don't was. I don't
know if it was in the Did he do it
in the car in the garage?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
I understand was it was in the garage and he
had a vacuum tube or some type of hose that
went from the exhaust to inside his car to accelerate it.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
And then he sat in the car and he closed
the garage door.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, and then you just go to sleep a lot.
Sometimes you take sleeping pills or something just kind of
like pass out. Yeah, don't wake up.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Well, he had so much carbon monoxide poisoning that he
did end up dying.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, you know this is ridiculous, Like, Oh, I don't
want to go to jail for something I didn't do,
so I'm gonna kill myself. Well, what about taking care
of your kids? If you didn't do it? Like so,
then what you just quit on your five kids too?

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yep, all right, So then we get to twenty twenty
to twenty twenty three, there are legal proceedings continue because
we still have Michelle Traconis the girlfriend and Kent the attorney.
So the murder case against Photus is officially dismissed due
to his death. However, prosecutors continue building cases against Michelle
Traconne and can Tom Winnie. Custody of Jennifer's five children

(36:03):
is permanently granted to her mother, Gloria Farber, who also
files and wins a civil suit against Photus's estate. Twenty
twenty four, Michelle Treconas goes to trial. So in January
of twenty twenty four, Michelle Tracona's trial begins in Stanford, Connecticut.
The prosecution presents hundreds of exhibits, including surveillance footage, phone data,

(36:24):
and testimony that Traconas helped photos cover up the murder
and clean up the evidence. You know, here's the other thing.
Do you think Michelle Traconis knows where the body is?
Because obviously if she did, she would use that as
as leverage for a plea deal.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Right, Well, yeah, I don't know. I think the body
is divvied up. I mean, why would you go to
thirty different locations that I know? I keep going back
to that. But they chopped it up, you think, yeah,
they did drop one piece of paper towel in each
of the thirty dumpsters.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
No, because I'm saying, how do you go from digging
a grave so where you're going to carry the body?

Speaker 2 (37:00):
I don't know, change plans. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Man to cut up a body. It takes a sick
individual to be able to do something like that.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Well, or to beat someone to death. It also takes
a sick person. Then they had to go clean the blood.
Then they had to go borrow a truck and he
had to ride it. I mean there was a lot,
there was a lot of forethought. Oh yeah, of thinking. Yeah,
it was opportunities for ing to say no, this is
not a good idea, right, and he kept doing it
and doing it and doing it and doing it.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
So in March first, at twenty twenty four, Michelle Traconis
has found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and two
counts of tampering with physical evidence. I don't know. I
still don't know if I. So, you think the body
parts are in the dumpsters, Well.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
What's your explanation for going to thirty dumpsters because dumpster diving?

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Well, because there was so much clean up afterwards that ye.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
So you think paper towels spread all out like that way,
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
So, I don't know. But they didn't find any body
parts at all. None, well, and they found they found
garbage bags of the cleanup material, but there was no
actual body parts. I'm saying the fact that they found zero,
to me, means that I think he disposed of the
body somewhere else and then went to thirty locations to
try to throw off police or whatever the rasoning was

(38:17):
for that.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
So either way, we know she's dead, we know he
likely did it obviously, So I don't know. They don't
think that she was there, Michelle was there. No, she
was after the fact. Yeah, that's why she gave conflicting statements,
and she was trying to cover up because I think
at one point she said she was she vouched as
an alibi for him. Well, changed the story.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Well, they had their alibis worked out, and then Kent
because they both were claiming that they had a meeting
with the attorney.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Kent. Yeah, you're right. It's not a good idea when
your alibi is your co conspirator. Right.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
So, in May thirty, twenty twenty four, Michelle traconis a
sentenced to fourteen and a half years in prison.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Then we get to June, sentenced to twenty and she
can not eligible to be released until fourteen and a
half years. So she was said, So she's gone for
nearly fifteen years, right.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Again, not. My question is she must not know what
happened to the body and she must not know where
it is, because if she did, and the guy's dead,
he killed himself, right, So it's not like she has
to be loyal to him or keep her mouth shut
for him anymore. That's why I'm saying, if she knew
where the body was, she would have used that as
a bargaining tool to get a lesser shape. Did she
plead guilty, So a trial jury found her guilty. So

(39:37):
all right then, so now she's in jail maybe time.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, you're right. So if she was gonna use the
body location as a bargaining chip, yeah, it would have
to be done prior to a trial. So yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I'm just saying that. I feel as if she doesn't know.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
What do? You make a good point? I don't have
an answer for you, but you make a good point.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
So then we get to recent Actually, this just happened
in June thirteenth of twenty twenty five, so this summer,
Kimp Maweney is sentenced. So Kimp Maweney entered an Alford plea,
that is a plea where the defendant does not admit
guild but acknowledges the prosecution has enough evidence to convict him.
So he enters this plea to a lesser charge of
interfering with police. And remember he was originally charged with

(40:30):
conspiracy to commit murder and the disappearance and presume death
of Jennifer. He was sentenced to eleven months in jail
time he had already effectively served, and the original conspiracy
murder charge was dropped due to insufficient evidence to prove
it beyond a reasonable doubt. Mowenni maintains that he did
not conspire to kill Jennifer and has stated publicly that

(40:51):
he does not know what happened to her or where
her body is located. I did see him give an
interview or something, and he does claim that if he
knew where the body was, he would he would tell,
he would give it up, he would make so. I
don't think tri Furtis.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Went rogue a little bit and deviated from the plan,
That's what I think, and panicked or whatnot, didn't obviously
avoid a shallow grave, and.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
I think something happened and something got messed up or
hindered where that he wasn't able to dispose of her
body in the grave that they originally had planned to
put her in. I think he did something with the body.
I don't know, Maybe he threw it off a ravine
or in a river or something. I don't know, but
I would guess that Kent and Michelle don't know where
the body is. Otherwise I feel as if they would

(41:33):
have used that in their defense. What impact did Jennifer
Dulos's murder have so in June of twenty twenty one,
Jennifer's Law was signed into Connecticut law. Jennifer's Law named
in honor of Jennifer Farbar Dulos and Jennifer Magnano, which
are two Connecticut women who were killed by their husbands
after suffering years of abuse. The law was created to

(41:53):
expand the legal definition of domestic violence beyond physical abuse,
recognizing that many victims experienced psychological, emotional, and financial control
long before violence turns physical. Under Jennifer's Law, Connecticut now
legally recognizes coercive control as a form of domestic abuse.
This means that behaviors such as isolation from friends or family,

(42:17):
monitoring communications or movements, financial control, threats, intimidation or manipulation, gaslighting,
and emotional degradation can all be considered forms of domestic
violence even if no physical harm has occurred. What do
you think about that?

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, that's just that's a tough one to really, those are.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Tough to prove, that's for sure. I mean the physical
violence obviously is like that's when you have photos or
pattern Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
And exercising severe control over the person or as opposed
to just like you know, he would let me call
my mom today.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Before Jennifer's Law, Connecticut's legal system typically only recognized physical
or sexual violence and domestic abuse cases. This often left victims,
especially those like Jennifer Doulo's who who express fear for
her safety during her divorce, without strong legal protections. You know,
here's here's the problem. Also, even if it was more

(43:10):
recognized previously that financial control, threats, stalking, following gas lighting,
emotional abuse are considered abuse and you can get a
restraining order. It doesn't have to just be evidence of
physical abuse. The problem is that someone like Fotus, he
doesn't do you think he's going to abide by He's

(43:32):
not going to abide by a protective a restraining order.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
No.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
He's a narcissist, yes, and a murderer and a psychopath.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
He's not a real follower no.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
So you know, being able to get a restraining order
can only go so far for a female. At the
end of the day, if someone like him, a restraining order,
a piece of paper is not going to keep him.
It doesn't matter if she got a restraining order because
he was psychologically you know, abusive or physically abusive. Someone

(44:02):
like that that planned the murder, that premeditated, that had
people involved, that through the cover of the night, borrowed
a truck, drove to her house, laid in wait, murdered
her in the garage, cleaned it up to row a.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Bible somewhere, rode a bike back, dumpsters exactly.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
That is not someone that's going to be deterred by
a piece of paper. The new law allows victims experiencing
coercive control to obtain restraining orders before violence escalates, present
non physical evidence such as texts, financial records, witness statements,
et cetera, and court and receive broader protection through family

(44:39):
court proceedings, including custody hearings. Jennifer's law represents a major
step forward and domestic violence reform, aiming to prevent tragedies
by intervening earlier in the abuse cycle. It also inspired
other states to consider similar legislation, expanding the definition of
abuse to include psychological and financial domination domin I mean,

(45:01):
that's good, and I'm glad that it's been expanded, because
obviously we know that abuse comes in many forms. It's
not just physical, Like a woman can be severely abused
and he could never lay a hand on her. It
could all be psychological. But again when it when someone's
abusive like that, and a restraining order can only do
so much. I mean maybe it deters some men, but
not someone like him. I mean, as we discussed, do

(45:25):
you have anything else about this case?

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Oh? Yeah, the so he posted six million dollars bond,
he did, and then he commits suicide. Yeah, so what
happens to the bond?

Speaker 1 (45:34):
I don't know what happens to the bond goes to
the state. Oh, they get the six million dollars. It
doesn't like go to his children.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
No, that sucks. Yeah, And I don't know if it's
because he committed suicide, like intentionally didn't appear in court.
Yeah that is versus if he got a car accident,
what would happen. But I think that's kind of weak
because the bond is meant to make sure you go
to court right, so you get ready back. So I

(46:00):
get it, he didn't go to court right, But it's
not like he's skipped it. I mean that so the
bond is not serving a purpose anymore. It's not like
he skipped town and they're gonna hold on the bond tilly,
you know, until they can get him into or it's like,
you know, he forfeited that and that's just his penalty.
It's like he's dead and there's five kids which now

(46:21):
live with the grandma. Yeah, you know what about them,
the mother's mother.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yeah, so Jennifer Doulos's mother has the children cast.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Right, so if she secured them and they're in privacy,
it said, and they're not in the public eye, right.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
I did read that the son made a statement or
wrote something, and this this was really he was I
don't remember his exact age around the time that his
mother was murdered, but I'm thinking it was like twelve
thirteen or something like that. That age, well at the
age they were eight to thirteen, Okay, so I think
he was around the thirteen age. Anyway, he wrote something.

(46:56):
I read that he said that during that time when
his mother disappeared and was murdered, he was not getting
along with her very well. And I think he had
a lot of the son because I mean, first of all,
let's look at his age. We you and I. We
have Annabelle. She's twelve almost thirteen. That's a very critical
age for kids. That's just they and then there's a

(47:19):
there's a divorce.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
The dad psychodad, the.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Dad's moved out, the mom's trying to protect the kids.
Kids at that age they don't understand that you're trying
to protect them. I mean, we constantly have conversations with
Annabel that we're not limiting things or taking things away
or not allowing her to do things because we're mean
and we're terrible people and we want her to have
a terrible life. We're doing it because we're protecting her
and we love her and we care about her. But

(47:43):
that age, it's very difficult. They don't see it that way.
My point is is that he has now said that
he did not have the opportunity to ever say to
his mother. Now he realizes that all the things that
he was that he was upset about was just her
trying to techt him, and that he was at that
teenage critical angst age where he was just upset with

(48:05):
her and he was mad at her, and you know,
he was arguing with her. And now right he's devastated
that his last interactions with his mother before she was
taken from his life were these teenage angst interactions where
he was mad at her, he was upset with her,
and he can't ever get that time back. He can't
ever say what he really thinks. He can't say that,

(48:25):
he can't say I now understand that you were trying
to protect me, that you were an amazing mom. And
that's what's so sad, is just this mom was taken
away from these five children and was.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
The only hope they well, now they're with the grandma,
but prior to that, she was their hope. You know,
she was protecting him. He was the one that's more aggressive.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
So so it was that's a sad story. Anyway, there's
a lot of different documentaries out there on Jennifer Dulos.
If you'd like to investigate it further and watch it,
I would. I think it's an interesting story. I guess
I take away from it because I'm the same age
as her and I have children, and I.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Just here nice though, the happy and the happy ending.
The nice note to leave it on is all five
are together. They're with the grandma. I think they moved
to a different state.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Did they moved down?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
And they're in privacy, and so you know, they can
kind of try and live forward.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
That way, a normal life as much as possible.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
And I hate to say this, but I mean maybe
it's better their dad's dead instead of in jail, where
it's kind of always lingering that your dad's there.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Is probably reaching out.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
To letters or fearful that he might come out one day,
or you know, I don't know, yeah, I mean all right.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Thanks guys for listening to Legally Brunette. We appreciate it.
And again, we are on our own feeds, so please
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feel free to do that, and thanks so much for listening.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Thank you,