January 30, 2024 • 33 mins
Shortly after the shooting - Pat Chisenhall voluntarily speaks with law enforcement and agrees to film a reenactment video of his version of events of October 12, 2013. The team dives into this reenactment video and shares the questions it raises.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi guys, it's Hillary here. Just a quick note, this
series does deal with a lot of tough subject matter
that may be difficult for some listeners, so please keep
this in mind when and where you choose to listen
to these episodes. Patchisenhall, dressed in a crisp white button
(00:20):
down tucked into a pair of jeans, stands outside of
his house. He looks into the camera, takes a deep breath,
and begins reciting what happened the day Christian was shot.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So I loved it myself. That took some time, I guess,
and when I came.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
In, he was coming.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
At last episode, we heard the various nine to one
to one calls from Pat and Katie documenting the tragic
events of October twelfth, twenty thirteen. On this episode, we
will continue to explore what happened immediately following Christian's death,
including the various testimonies Pat Chisenhall gave law enforcement. I'm
(01:04):
Hillary Burton Morgan and this is true crime story. It
couldn't happen here. All right, you guys, it's Hillary Burton
Morgan here. And you know our team by now. We
have Dan, Poe and Andrew and so we've talked a
(01:26):
lot about the Chisenhall's version of events and Pat's justification
for shooting Christian. That Christian was threatening both Pat Chisenhall
and his daughter Katie. Christian allegedly broke through the window
on their front porch and Pat had to shoot Christian
in order to defend himself and his daughter. So on
(01:49):
October fifteenth, twenty thirteen, just three days after this all happens,
Pat voluntarily comes into the local police station.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Just as sleep right here, right here's fighting mis Pat
I had this is to take the uh specary of war.
This hat ches and holls gid to meet yourself.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
He wants to talk with you a few minutes about
uh things that he had spoke with I think with
Katie this night.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I had no word around.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
I wanted to become my I went to some s
counseling this morning with the chaplain for the Kerry Police Department.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
Somebody who me up with uh and it's I I uh, uh.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
He's hit. Well, let me ask you this, pa w
what what is your interest today? What is it that
you've came to us about today? Well?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I was.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Se Saturday. I was like, it's in a state of shop.
You know, just it seems so real.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
I I'm sometimes Saturday night of Sunday, something happened and
I just I've had panic attack after panic attacks, which
I've never had before and not mayors, and everything's a
fragmented fog and it's like a mental block and the
things I don't I don't even remember about Saturday, and uh,
(03:13):
I can't guess there because I said I need to
come Monday at nine.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Somebody told me Monday at nine, and I'll just have had.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
Major panic attack early that morning and my son was
gonna bring me and I saw my grandson and just
seeing him, I just fell apart.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And all the way over here, I was in trouble
and I got here.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
And I thought it was having a stroke, but it
was a panic attack and I've never known that before.
And I just my mind is like a m that
fear and that chaos and that and that and everything
is like it just something broke in me and I
what w what are you fear?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
At this point, I don't feel.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
I'm just my mind. I just I can't remember. I
don't fear. It's just the fear of that moment Saturday.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
It just something flashed in my enemyen and so I
just wanted to come and and because I had to
leave you, they took me to the hospital yesterday night.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And are you doing okay today? And you still look
like you're sick or under away.
Speaker 6 (04:21):
Basically, my mind is just not right that Saturday, just
the intensity of the fear of that moment.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
And everything just Saturday, Saturday night, Sunday, it's when.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
It hit me and my son in law, my grandchild, It's.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
All just hit me.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
So he's saying he didn't make the statement he was
supposed to make, and now he's back because he knew
he was supposed to come in, but he was having
a panic attack.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
In a death. How many times have you got experienced
law enforcement putting off their interviews because someone's having panic
attacks or just not feeling up to it.
Speaker 8 (05:09):
I think that happens.
Speaker 9 (05:11):
I think he did make his statements on the day
of and I think what I heard Pat saying is
that he tried to come in Sunday to talk and
they were like, you need to come back tomorrow at
nine when there's people here to take your statement. He
gave statements on Saturday, but then he had his panic
attacks and he wanted to talk again on Sunday.
Speaker 10 (05:27):
Yeah, this is his They did get the statement on
the day off.
Speaker 8 (05:30):
But now he's kind of he's saying that it's all
a blur and he's no.
Speaker 10 (05:34):
This is weird. This is weird. He's made a statement
officially to the police on the day of. They have
a written statement somewhere, and he's coming in two days
later to talk about his feeling and his fuzziness.
Speaker 8 (05:46):
No, but he's also saying that they asked him to
come back in but he could.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
He came voluntarily, So he's not been named a suspect.
He's not been taking I.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
Mean, they know he killed him.
Speaker 10 (05:54):
So okay. Wait, so when they say, just to be clear,
when they say you volunteer to conversation, they ask you, okay,
a volunteer to come to the station. He makes an
unsolicited visit to the Sheriff's department to speak to them.
That is really unusual and the content is really strange.
Speaker 8 (06:13):
Yeah, because the content he's just going on about his
brain and his panic attacks. And he's not saying, you know,
I know I was unclear. I want to try to
make sure my statements are clear. I'm trying to remember,
he's not talking about any of that, He's just stating
his state. What else does he go on?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I want to play this other clip because I think
it does add clarity. To be clear, there is no
expectation for Pat Chisenhol to come into law enforcement Sunday
or any other day, because they already got a statement
from him the day of Christian's death on Saturday.
Speaker 8 (06:46):
I mean, they generally do in a case like this,
especially for the person who pulled the trigger, interview them
more than once. So there would be an expectation that
he would do another interview. But he isn't waiting for
them to ask him. He's doing it on his own volition.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
He's just coming in.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
So you're currently not on anything you okay?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Did well? I mean are you here?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Did?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Did you come other than a touch basis?
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Were you expecting to try to take that polygraph today
if you want?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, I don't.
Speaker 11 (07:21):
I don't know if we can actually schedule you today.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
I was just asking. And the reason I say this
is because I just lost my train of thought. Reason.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
A polygraph session takes usually about three to four hours,
and Lieutenant Taylor, who does the polygraphs, has one at
one o'clock. So if you were interested, and if what
brought you here today is to reschedule that, then we
can reschedule it for you and notify you of the rescheduling.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Right because we weren't under the impression your doctor wanted to
relax for a couple of days, so we we' we
were gonna give you that time to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So these are the kinds of things that I wish
we could include in the show, but we don't have
time for because it just goes to show that, I mean,
everybody involved in the situations confused. Do you hear law
enforcement ask like why are you here? They're sitting there
in silence for an uncomfortable amount of time, and mister
Chisenhall isn't saying anything, and so finally law enforcement's like,
(08:25):
I mean, I guess polygraph task, you know, like Drew.
Speaker 9 (08:28):
It sounds to me like on the day of the
shooting when they spoke with patches in Hall, there must
have been some discussion of you know, oh, I'll take
a polygraph if you want me to, or somehow they
discussed the possibility of doing that. Because now they're yeah,
they're saying, why are you here? Did you come in
to take that polygraph or why are you here? And
he doesn't seem like he really has an answer of
why he's here. He's like, yeah, I'll take the polygraph
(08:50):
if you want me to. But he doesn't seem to
have a clear reason of why he came in that
day to speak to them.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Why do you think he came in that day to
speak with them?
Speaker 9 (08:58):
I think? I mean, I would take him at as work.
If he's saying, I'm like just upset and having panic
attacks and freaking out, maybe he just thinks like talking
about it again, I don't have no idea really.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
But he's not talking about it. That's what's weird is
that he's not doing that, you know. I mean, I'd say,
from the perspective of a defense attorney, I would look
at it and say, he's trying to establish that his
brain isn't working right and he's not necessarily a reliable narrator.
That's what I would do if I were a defense attorney.
I mean, I don't know. Maybe he's just freaking out
(09:31):
and he's just I mean, if I were involved in that,
I would be a hot mess. I'd be having panic
attacks and nightmares. I would be wandering around. I don't
know what i'd be doing, but it's not unfathomable that
I would be doing what he's doing. It's weird because
he doesn't seem to have a purpose other than telling
them his state of mind, but it's not unreasonable, right.
(09:51):
But from a more cynical or if you're looking at
it from a different angle, like as a defense attorney,
than I could look at it and say he's trying
to establish that maybe what he said isn't totally clear
because he's reiterating over and over again that he can't
remember things, things are fragments, he doesn't know. So I mean,
he could even be doing that from a nonsense yeah,
that could be an earnest.
Speaker 10 (10:13):
Right, So there are two points of view that you
could take it. He's absolutely being totally earnest, and he's
entirely messed up and traumatized and he just needs to
talk to somebody and has come in and they're saying, well,
why are you talking to us, why are you here?
And that's all genuine and true, or it's cynically, as
you stated, it's a backtrack, you know, where he's basically
(10:35):
telling the officers that he's all fuzzy, he's not really
sure about the details, all the while knowing that he
has actually given a statement of details on the day
of the shooting.
Speaker 9 (10:46):
It could be something like that, you know, if somebody
wanted to hold him on those details, he's now possibly
provided a cover saying, Oh, I don't know if I
was correct in those details. I really don't remember. He
walks in. He says, I just I don't remember. Things
are hazy, I'm stressed, and they're not quite sure why
he's there, Like, what else do you want to say?
So eventually, as they're talking in this room, they're in
(11:07):
the police interview room, and the investigator suggests, like, well,
would you Obviously they're feeling that he wants to say
something to them, right, and it's not clear what he
wants to say. So the investigators actually suggest, would you
be okay actually going back to the scene and walking
us through what happened? And I think that's their way
(11:27):
of saying, you're here and you're not sure why you're here,
how about we do a walkthrough so we could actually
get it all down exactly. You're step by step of
what your story is that day?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Good after the David Adams with a Horney County Sheriff's Office.
We're out at the home of Pat Chisenhall. October to twelve,
twenty thirteen. We had an incident here that occurred about
eleven o'clock am. Mister Patt Chisenhall has agreed to come
out and do a reenactment of Saturday is advance president
(12:02):
at the time, but failman is detected brain.
Speaker 8 (12:05):
So the video starts with the officer introducing it. They're
standing in front of Katie's house, which is part of
the Chisenhall compound. There are two separate living structures, and
they're standing in front of the house, and then Pat
is walking from the driveway around the house, pointing to
the porch and taking us in front and around the house,
(12:26):
explaining what he says unfolded.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
What does Pat look like?
Speaker 8 (12:29):
I mean, Pat is a middle aged guy. He's wearing
a white shirt, jeans with a belt. He's got gray
hair that's maybe a little thinning, and his eyes are swollen.
He's putting his face down. He's not opening them big
or you know, he's looking the part of what he
described to them how he's feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
No, I don't agree, No, I meant his face when
he starts the video. Here's what I see. I see
as an actor, someone telling me they're distraught, someone telling
me that their brain is not functioning properly, someone telling
me they are at the lowest point in their life.
And what I see is a man who has combed
his hair and slicked his hair back and put on
an ironed dress shirt and tucked it into his nice
(13:09):
laundered pants with a little belt, and has put together
an outfit and himself in a way that says, I'm
an upstanding member of this community, and look how put
together I am.
Speaker 8 (13:20):
He does not look disheveled. He does not look the
part physically, there's not one hair out of place, that's right.
What I meant was he begins the video, his face
is down. He doesn't look up to the camera for
a really long time. Once he starts getting revved up,
he starts being much more perky. But at the beginning
he's got that voice of like, oh, he can barely
get it out, and he's got his face down and
(13:40):
he's not looking. And so that's what I meant about.
He looks the part. It's like he's doing that, but
meanwhile his physical appearance is very well put together, so.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
Just a quick sort of setup for this walkthrough video.
There are two houses next door to each other. The
house on the left is patchisen Hall in his wife's house.
The house on the right is where Katie lives. So
Pat sets up this video saying that Christian has pulled
into the driveway of Katie's house and that's where Pat
(14:25):
and Christian are talking outside of Katie's house. Meanwhile, Katie
has gone over to patchisen Hall's house next door and
is on the porch and eventually goes inside patchisen Hall's house.
So while Pat's having the argument with Christian in front
of Katie's house, Katie is inside her father's house. Right,
(14:46):
That's the sort of dynamic we have here. So then
as Pat tells the story, he's saying that the argument
moves from in front of Katie's house to in front
of his own house.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
There's a lot I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
He ran and got on the porch and was banging
on the doors, banging on the windows, yelling, cursing, demanding
Katie come out. He was all over the place and
he was running everywhere yelling.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
It was truly truly scary.
Speaker 9 (15:23):
And largely he's saying that once Katie goes inside her parents' house,
that Christian is at the window of that house banging
to be let in, and Katie is inside, not letting
him in.
Speaker 8 (15:33):
But we don't know if that's the front window. In fact,
he kind of intimates that she's on a side window,
not in the living room where everything's supposedly transpired.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But he says.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
Christian's running back and forth, and he sees him over
at the tree on the phone, and then he says
he sees him on the opposite side.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
He would yell at me and get right in my face.
And I've never seen a rage like that in my life.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Okay, at some point y'all got up to the house
and y'all were separated.
Speaker 10 (16:02):
Well, I was.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Over here, somewhere in here. I moved up here, somewhere
in here.
Speaker 12 (16:20):
At the moment, I think if he always came up here,
I think, and all over the place seemed like I
saw him standing with that under that tree down there,
talking on a cell phone.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
But I'm not sure what that was about. I can't,
I can't.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I'm not sure on that.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
And I remember the nine one one person saying I
don't remember all.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I said the questions, and she said something about hospital
or something.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Do you feel threatened? And I said yes.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
So there's a long stretch back and forth from one
side of his house to the other side of his
house and beyond. He's saying it's happening with Christian's movements.
Speaker 12 (17:03):
So where was where was chrished at the whole file
say this time, I'm I'm not sure, all over the place,
running around. I came back after she said safe place,
somewhere right in here, and I looked and his car
(17:25):
was on the other side of that truck.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Oh no, not his car, Caden's car, and.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
He was in it, het up in the doors and
was rummage and throw it back, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And I thought, passed my chance to get in the house,
cause I I couldn't get in the house.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I thought that that's my chance, alright.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
So at that point, you may At that point I
walked the first time, I remember, fast, without looking out,
I walk.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And he saw me.
Speaker 9 (17:57):
I started running, you basically saying, Katie goes in the
house and Christian's banging on the door, banging on the window,
demanding to be let in. Right then he says Christian
goes into Katie's car, which is parked in front of
her parents' driveway, right.
Speaker 8 (18:11):
To the opposite side of her house. So he's now
gone to the left side if you're facing the house
from where they were over on the right side, right.
Speaker 9 (18:18):
And that seems to be where he's saying, is his
opportunity while Christian's in the car to get into the house.
Speaker 8 (18:24):
Right, So then he goes in. He opens the door
with a lock, and he notes that Katie is not
in that living room that he's entering through the front door,
but she's over this other window.
Speaker 9 (18:33):
Right, so she could have run over and you know,
helped him close the door. But it's interesting though. On
the nine one one call, it's a little different. You know,
Pat's outside and saying that Christian's on the porch at
the window, demanding to be let in. And then that's
when he says, this is my chance to go into
the house. So not in the car, out in the
front porch.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Now this I didn't remember. My daughter told me this
this morning. I thought she let me. She said, I
got in with the key. I asked her, I said,
did you let me in? She said no, She said
she was looking out that round window.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Which round window down that road from inside this home.
Yeah right, yeah, okay, but run her out there, okay,
And I said, did you let me in?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
She said no, She said I heard the.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Key and I came running, so I unlocked it myself.
That took some time, I guess, And when I came in,
he was coming up, and she was she was somewhere
right here.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I darted in and I don't remember her pushing, but
she said she helped me push the door.
Speaker 10 (19:45):
Okay, let us move inside the home mouth.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
And show us how the door was closed.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
A smoot van.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I guess I came in. I tried to push it. John,
I guess I got.
Speaker 13 (20:09):
It somewhere along in there, and I guess Katie was
right here, and so we started pushing and he was
pushing the opposite. So we were pushing fiercely, like Liz,
and I don't believe how long, but we managed.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I guess with her him to get it closed.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
And I love that.
Speaker 9 (20:25):
Yeah, he's very clear to say about the details he
doesn't remember. He's like, I'm fuzzy on the details. I
don't really remember exactly I think I was here, But
about the logistics, of where he was. He seems to
be clear on I came in here as pushing the door.
Katie helped me to push the door closed. I was
standing on this side, Katie was behind me. He's articulate
(20:46):
about those positions, but the actual like that, I don't
know when he came through, what I did next, I
don't remember. I'm fuzzy. So it is this interesting combination
of being very clear about specific things and then not
remembering a lot of the details.
Speaker 8 (20:59):
I think that does happen in traumatic moments. I'm not
saying that I agree.
Speaker 9 (21:03):
I mean I have a hard time sort of really
judging his performance. You know, like you're saying, he's walking
us through this, but I don't know how I would react.
I mean I would be if I shot somebody legitimately
out of self defense, I'd be a wreck, And if
I was trying to hold myself together.
Speaker 8 (21:20):
He doesn't feel like a wreck. When he's talking, he
feels very clean. Then he'll say, oh, it's so terrible,
and he'll do something kind of dramatically put his heads
in his hand. But then the way he's kind of
explaining certain things doesn't feel like a wreck.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
They won't long this because I was still here.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I remember that because here's where my mind really gets fried,
and because.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
This was horrified.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I mean, you say, you imagine, but I couldn't imagine.
There was a rage, a monstrous rage in him that
I have ever seen.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
And I was here and all of.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
A sudden, the wind that just just and my daughter,
I fant somewhere here. I remember before my eye she
just went the zerk with terror. I've never seen terror
like that, and now I don't. And she was running.
I don't know what happened much after that, now I'm not.
(22:14):
I got somewhere here and.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
I look and he was coming well, we weren't coming
in at that point.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
His head was sticking in and I don't remember the specifics,
but he said, I'll kill you. And I remember my
daughter was screaming, and I've said here and I don't
know how long it's you know exactly what I did,
and then I knew he was right there.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So what Pat is telling us is that the second
he walked through that door, his daughter was at his side,
and together they pushed the door closed on Christian.
Speaker 8 (22:48):
Who was beating and trying to get in.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Which would have left some physical evidence, so we will
look for that. But also as soon as the door
is closed, that is, when the window is broken, and
there's this very like performative, like he uses his whole
body in his arms to show law enforcement the trajectory
of the glass as it came in.
Speaker 8 (23:12):
And the words that he's using about like this abject
terror that he's describing that Katie, which I would feel
too if there was a you know, a man who's
threatening violence and smashing in the window. But yeah, he
throws his arms up, she makes this noise, and he
embodies this busting glass and Katie's fear, and then we
also have a weird time logistic conundrum happening.
Speaker 10 (23:36):
I think that's interesting that when you see the video
it feels like a performance. When you read the transcript,
it doesn't feel like a performance.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That's a great point. If we were just reading this,
this would be really terrifying. Okay, So from the point
where he says, all right, the glass blew throughout the house,
(24:09):
then patches and hall walks us through going to get
the gun, and where he took aim, how he took aim.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
When the window was forward and the blinds were forward,
pinned against the caps there.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
What side of the window was he coming in?
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Can you recall do you remember any parts of the body, head, leg, anything.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
First thing that faced the face of rage, and then
I ran.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I don't remember that. I ran roun here. There was
a twenty two riffle up there. I see there was
a twenty two there?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Where was Kadi at this at this farm?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
But I grabbed that.
Speaker 11 (25:02):
I can't running in here and this I I don't
know now you don't I don't know it. My mind
has just I saw. My mind is just it's all frightened.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And uh it's just uh, I r I think I
think I fired from heating okay, but.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I cannot say for sure.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
Did you go the sock up to your shoulder and
take aim or did you hold it kind of like
at the waistline.
Speaker 7 (25:36):
And I had I don't know. I I think I.
I think I from the shoulder other than and I
and I think it was from there. And after that,
it's like it's a it's a horrifying.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Can you recall after the last shot.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
What you did with the farmer?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
No?
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I I don't know what in the world is No,
I'm can you call how any shots?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
If I know I don't know.
Speaker 8 (26:05):
But he says always, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 8 (26:07):
I'm not sure. I think I was here. I think
I was here. I think I was here. What I'm
seeing here is not police one hundred percent. I mean,
they're very friendly, but they are questioning once when not
getting answers, circling back and questioning twice. And the police
are asking the same questions we were.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So here's what stood out to me is that law
enforcement asks two specific questions and patchisen Hall does not
even acknowledge that they're asking a question. He just rolls
on with his monologue. They ask him about which side
of the window Christian's body was coming through, and he
just rolls through it. And then they ask him when
(26:45):
they're standing at the door, which side, and he just
rolls right through to the things that he feels need
to be shared. And then when they go back into
the bedroom and they ask him as he's showing them where.
Speaker 8 (26:58):
The guns were in the closet.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
In the closet, they're like, well, where's Katie.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
All the two.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Bits I remember after all of that, when it's like
in a cloud was coming back in here opening this
door from Kadi being in their crime.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
After he had.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Coming after any there and yeah, this was a was afterwards.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
She was in here on the floor crying O door clothes.
I don't say anything to you, No to say, don't
I don't remember. I just remember her crime.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
And he says, yes, no I did, No, I didn't
I did.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, they doubled back on those questions because he, you know.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
Didn't answer them, and also because those are key questions
because they have evidence. They have evidence from crime scene photos,
and they have evidence from the telephone calls.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, so we listened to the nine to one one
calls last episode and really dove into each one. But
I think it bears repeating that all of this happened
in a short amount of time.
Speaker 9 (27:56):
It was like two minutes, less than two minutes. He
he takes his key, unlocks the door, goes into the house,
closes the door behind, and Christian's pushing against the door.
He and Katie are pushing the door. They finally get
the door closed, get the door locked. Then Christian breaks
the window, has his head inside the window, pat then
(28:17):
goes to the closet, retrees his gun, shoots six times,
and then calls nine one again.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And so while he doubles down that he's fuzzy on
the details. I feel like we get a pretty clear
account of what he experienced that day, what Pat says happened,
and then we have the nine to one one calls
in this walk through video. And while law enforcement did
(28:45):
ask some pretty good questions during the walkthrough, they really
didn't seem to do anything further with that information. They
don't pump the brakes. They don't say like, huh, maybe
we should look at things just like a little bit
close or you know. Everybody just seems to accept Pat's
narrative that this was an act of self defense. They
(29:07):
do not interview Tony Griggs until October seventeenth, that's two
full days after Pat's interview and recreation walk through. The
Tony's asked to come down to the Sheriff's office and
he meets with Lieutenant Webb and Detective Armstrong, and that
is when Tony discovers that Pat has retained a lawyer,
(29:28):
he's refused a polygraph, and that he is using the
Castle doctrine as his defense, which, just as a reminder
to all of you, that's a law in North Carolina
that states if someone comes into your home and they
threaten you. You have the right to protect yourself and
your home. And so Tony is not being asked for
a statement in that moment, He's just being told this
(29:51):
is what's happening.
Speaker 14 (29:52):
I can't there's no way to describe to Philly. You
see it on the news, common people being shot being killed,
and you never think it would happen to you, and
then when it happens to you, y'ars just blown away.
Just I didn't know how to respond my emotions and
(30:13):
who I was for.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Months on end is just damaged.
Speaker 14 (30:19):
To walk in and find my son laying on supposedly
his following laws front porch and this guy shot him
and killed him. I just can't put it together.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
He is on the phone with Christian while the altercations
are going on, and he's the first person on scene
after Christian's been shot.
Speaker 10 (30:37):
So Tony is a witness, Yeah, a key witness. Where
is his statement on the day of, or the day.
Speaker 8 (30:46):
After or the day after that?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, to never gather a statement, just to pull him
in and tell him what the resolution of the case
is is incredibly frustrating to Griggs was on site before
the shooting. He left he was called to come back,
and by the time he got there, his son was dead.
And so he was very much a part of that
crime scene and the events that morning. And so when
(31:13):
the local news begins to cover this case, Tony just
happens to see the story when he's watching TV with
his family, and the photos from the crime scene don't
match the scene Tony witnessed when he arrived the day
Christian was shot. And so we'll explore the crime scene
photos as well as the autopsy report, which contains information
(31:35):
that seems very at odds with what Patchisenhall reported in
his reenactment. That's it for this week's episode of True
Crime Story. It couldn't happen here, But be sure to
join us next week as we dive deeper into the
(31:55):
Christian Griggs case.
Speaker 14 (31:58):
When we saw the photographs of crime scene, the window
had been bashed and pushed in, and the first thing
my mom said was that didn't look like that. When
we were there, I was like, no, it didn't.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Join us next week as we continue to roll up
our sleeves and dig in. Thank you so much for
joining us. If you haven't watched Sundance TV's True Crime Story,
it Couldn't Happen Here. You can catch all of our
episodes streaming on AMC Plus. For more information about this
and other cases we've covered, follow at ic HH stories
(32:36):
on Instagram. True crime story It Couldn't Happen Here was
produced by Mischief Farm in association with Bungalow Media and Entertainment,
Authentic Management Productions, and Figdonia in partnership with Sundance TV.
Executive producers are me, Hillary Burton, Morgan Liz Accessor, Robert Friedman,
(32:56):
Mike Powers and Meg Mortimer. Producer are Maggie Robinson Katz
and Libby Siegel. Our audio engineer is Brendan Dalton, with
original music by Philip Radiotis. We want to say a
special thank you to everyone who participated, but especially the
family's impacted by our cases.
Hi guys, it's Hillary here. Just a quick note, this
series does deal with a lot of tough subject matter
that may be difficult for some listeners, so please keep
this in mind when and where you choose to listen
to these episodes. Patchisenhall, dressed in a crisp white button
(00:20):
down tucked into a pair of jeans, stands outside of
his house. He looks into the camera, takes a deep breath,
and begins reciting what happened the day Christian was shot.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So I loved it myself. That took some time, I guess,
and when I came.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
In, he was coming.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
At last episode, we heard the various nine to one
to one calls from Pat and Katie documenting the tragic
events of October twelfth, twenty thirteen. On this episode, we
will continue to explore what happened immediately following Christian's death,
including the various testimonies Pat Chisenhall gave law enforcement. I'm
(01:04):
Hillary Burton Morgan and this is true crime story. It
couldn't happen here. All right, you guys, it's Hillary Burton
Morgan here. And you know our team by now. We
have Dan, Poe and Andrew and so we've talked a
(01:26):
lot about the Chisenhall's version of events and Pat's justification
for shooting Christian. That Christian was threatening both Pat Chisenhall
and his daughter Katie. Christian allegedly broke through the window
on their front porch and Pat had to shoot Christian
in order to defend himself and his daughter. So on
(01:49):
October fifteenth, twenty thirteen, just three days after this all happens,
Pat voluntarily comes into the local police station.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Just as sleep right here, right here's fighting mis Pat
I had this is to take the uh specary of war.
This hat ches and holls gid to meet yourself.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
He wants to talk with you a few minutes about
uh things that he had spoke with I think with
Katie this night.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I had no word around.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
I wanted to become my I went to some s
counseling this morning with the chaplain for the Kerry Police Department.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
Somebody who me up with uh and it's I I uh, uh.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
He's hit. Well, let me ask you this, pa w
what what is your interest today? What is it that
you've came to us about today? Well?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I was.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Se Saturday. I was like, it's in a state of shop.
You know, just it seems so real.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
I I'm sometimes Saturday night of Sunday, something happened and
I just I've had panic attack after panic attacks, which
I've never had before and not mayors, and everything's a
fragmented fog and it's like a mental block and the
things I don't I don't even remember about Saturday, and uh,
(03:13):
I can't guess there because I said I need to
come Monday at nine.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Somebody told me Monday at nine, and I'll just have had.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
Major panic attack early that morning and my son was
gonna bring me and I saw my grandson and just
seeing him, I just fell apart.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And all the way over here, I was in trouble
and I got here.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
And I thought it was having a stroke, but it
was a panic attack and I've never known that before.
And I just my mind is like a m that
fear and that chaos and that and that and everything
is like it just something broke in me and I
what w what are you fear?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
At this point, I don't feel.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
I'm just my mind. I just I can't remember. I
don't fear. It's just the fear of that moment Saturday.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
It just something flashed in my enemyen and so I
just wanted to come and and because I had to
leave you, they took me to the hospital yesterday night.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And are you doing okay today? And you still look
like you're sick or under away.
Speaker 6 (04:21):
Basically, my mind is just not right that Saturday, just
the intensity of the fear of that moment.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
And everything just Saturday, Saturday night, Sunday, it's when.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
It hit me and my son in law, my grandchild, It's.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
All just hit me.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
So he's saying he didn't make the statement he was
supposed to make, and now he's back because he knew
he was supposed to come in, but he was having
a panic attack.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
In a death. How many times have you got experienced
law enforcement putting off their interviews because someone's having panic
attacks or just not feeling up to it.
Speaker 8 (05:09):
I think that happens.
Speaker 9 (05:11):
I think he did make his statements on the day
of and I think what I heard Pat saying is
that he tried to come in Sunday to talk and
they were like, you need to come back tomorrow at
nine when there's people here to take your statement. He
gave statements on Saturday, but then he had his panic
attacks and he wanted to talk again on Sunday.
Speaker 10 (05:27):
Yeah, this is his They did get the statement on
the day off.
Speaker 8 (05:30):
But now he's kind of he's saying that it's all
a blur and he's no.
Speaker 10 (05:34):
This is weird. This is weird. He's made a statement
officially to the police on the day of. They have
a written statement somewhere, and he's coming in two days
later to talk about his feeling and his fuzziness.
Speaker 8 (05:46):
No, but he's also saying that they asked him to
come back in but he could.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
He came voluntarily, So he's not been named a suspect.
He's not been taking I.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
Mean, they know he killed him.
Speaker 10 (05:54):
So okay. Wait, so when they say, just to be clear,
when they say you volunteer to conversation, they ask you, okay,
a volunteer to come to the station. He makes an
unsolicited visit to the Sheriff's department to speak to them.
That is really unusual and the content is really strange.
Speaker 8 (06:13):
Yeah, because the content he's just going on about his
brain and his panic attacks. And he's not saying, you know,
I know I was unclear. I want to try to
make sure my statements are clear. I'm trying to remember,
he's not talking about any of that, He's just stating
his state. What else does he go on?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I want to play this other clip because I think
it does add clarity. To be clear, there is no
expectation for Pat Chisenhol to come into law enforcement Sunday
or any other day, because they already got a statement
from him the day of Christian's death on Saturday.
Speaker 8 (06:46):
I mean, they generally do in a case like this,
especially for the person who pulled the trigger, interview them
more than once. So there would be an expectation that
he would do another interview. But he isn't waiting for
them to ask him. He's doing it on his own volition.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
He's just coming in.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
So you're currently not on anything you okay?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Did well? I mean are you here?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Did?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Did you come other than a touch basis?
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Were you expecting to try to take that polygraph today
if you want?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, I don't.
Speaker 11 (07:21):
I don't know if we can actually schedule you today.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
I was just asking. And the reason I say this
is because I just lost my train of thought. Reason.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
A polygraph session takes usually about three to four hours,
and Lieutenant Taylor, who does the polygraphs, has one at
one o'clock. So if you were interested, and if what
brought you here today is to reschedule that, then we
can reschedule it for you and notify you of the rescheduling.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Right because we weren't under the impression your doctor wanted to
relax for a couple of days, so we we' we
were gonna give you that time to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So these are the kinds of things that I wish
we could include in the show, but we don't have
time for because it just goes to show that, I mean,
everybody involved in the situations confused. Do you hear law
enforcement ask like why are you here? They're sitting there
in silence for an uncomfortable amount of time, and mister
Chisenhall isn't saying anything, and so finally law enforcement's like,
(08:25):
I mean, I guess polygraph task, you know, like Drew.
Speaker 9 (08:28):
It sounds to me like on the day of the
shooting when they spoke with patches in Hall, there must
have been some discussion of you know, oh, I'll take
a polygraph if you want me to, or somehow they
discussed the possibility of doing that. Because now they're yeah,
they're saying, why are you here? Did you come in
to take that polygraph or why are you here? And
he doesn't seem like he really has an answer of
why he's here. He's like, yeah, I'll take the polygraph
(08:50):
if you want me to. But he doesn't seem to
have a clear reason of why he came in that
day to speak to them.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Why do you think he came in that day to
speak with them?
Speaker 9 (08:58):
I think? I mean, I would take him at as work.
If he's saying, I'm like just upset and having panic
attacks and freaking out, maybe he just thinks like talking
about it again, I don't have no idea really.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
But he's not talking about it. That's what's weird is
that he's not doing that, you know. I mean, I'd say,
from the perspective of a defense attorney, I would look
at it and say, he's trying to establish that his
brain isn't working right and he's not necessarily a reliable narrator.
That's what I would do if I were a defense attorney.
I mean, I don't know. Maybe he's just freaking out
(09:31):
and he's just I mean, if I were involved in that,
I would be a hot mess. I'd be having panic
attacks and nightmares. I would be wandering around. I don't
know what i'd be doing, but it's not unfathomable that
I would be doing what he's doing. It's weird because
he doesn't seem to have a purpose other than telling
them his state of mind, but it's not unreasonable, right.
(09:51):
But from a more cynical or if you're looking at
it from a different angle, like as a defense attorney,
than I could look at it and say he's trying
to establish that maybe what he said isn't totally clear
because he's reiterating over and over again that he can't
remember things, things are fragments, he doesn't know. So I mean,
he could even be doing that from a nonsense yeah,
that could be an earnest.
Speaker 10 (10:13):
Right, So there are two points of view that you
could take it. He's absolutely being totally earnest, and he's
entirely messed up and traumatized and he just needs to
talk to somebody and has come in and they're saying, well,
why are you talking to us, why are you here?
And that's all genuine and true, or it's cynically, as
you stated, it's a backtrack, you know, where he's basically
(10:35):
telling the officers that he's all fuzzy, he's not really
sure about the details, all the while knowing that he
has actually given a statement of details on the day
of the shooting.
Speaker 9 (10:46):
It could be something like that, you know, if somebody
wanted to hold him on those details, he's now possibly
provided a cover saying, Oh, I don't know if I
was correct in those details. I really don't remember. He
walks in. He says, I just I don't remember. Things
are hazy, I'm stressed, and they're not quite sure why
he's there, Like, what else do you want to say?
So eventually, as they're talking in this room, they're in
(11:07):
the police interview room, and the investigator suggests, like, well,
would you Obviously they're feeling that he wants to say
something to them, right, and it's not clear what he
wants to say. So the investigators actually suggest, would you
be okay actually going back to the scene and walking
us through what happened? And I think that's their way
(11:27):
of saying, you're here and you're not sure why you're here,
how about we do a walkthrough so we could actually
get it all down exactly. You're step by step of
what your story is that day?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Good after the David Adams with a Horney County Sheriff's Office.
We're out at the home of Pat Chisenhall. October to twelve,
twenty thirteen. We had an incident here that occurred about
eleven o'clock am. Mister Patt Chisenhall has agreed to come
out and do a reenactment of Saturday is advance president
(12:02):
at the time, but failman is detected brain.
Speaker 8 (12:05):
So the video starts with the officer introducing it. They're
standing in front of Katie's house, which is part of
the Chisenhall compound. There are two separate living structures, and
they're standing in front of the house, and then Pat
is walking from the driveway around the house, pointing to
the porch and taking us in front and around the house,
(12:26):
explaining what he says unfolded.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
What does Pat look like?
Speaker 8 (12:29):
I mean, Pat is a middle aged guy. He's wearing
a white shirt, jeans with a belt. He's got gray
hair that's maybe a little thinning, and his eyes are swollen.
He's putting his face down. He's not opening them big
or you know, he's looking the part of what he
described to them how he's feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
No, I don't agree, No, I meant his face when
he starts the video. Here's what I see. I see
as an actor, someone telling me they're distraught, someone telling
me that their brain is not functioning properly, someone telling
me they are at the lowest point in their life.
And what I see is a man who has combed
his hair and slicked his hair back and put on
an ironed dress shirt and tucked it into his nice
(13:09):
laundered pants with a little belt, and has put together
an outfit and himself in a way that says, I'm
an upstanding member of this community, and look how put
together I am.
Speaker 8 (13:20):
He does not look disheveled. He does not look the
part physically, there's not one hair out of place, that's right.
What I meant was he begins the video, his face
is down. He doesn't look up to the camera for
a really long time. Once he starts getting revved up,
he starts being much more perky. But at the beginning
he's got that voice of like, oh, he can barely
get it out, and he's got his face down and
(13:40):
he's not looking. And so that's what I meant about.
He looks the part. It's like he's doing that, but
meanwhile his physical appearance is very well put together, so.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
Just a quick sort of setup for this walkthrough video.
There are two houses next door to each other. The
house on the left is patchisen Hall in his wife's house.
The house on the right is where Katie lives. So
Pat sets up this video saying that Christian has pulled
into the driveway of Katie's house and that's where Pat
(14:25):
and Christian are talking outside of Katie's house. Meanwhile, Katie
has gone over to patchisen Hall's house next door and
is on the porch and eventually goes inside patchisen Hall's house.
So while Pat's having the argument with Christian in front
of Katie's house, Katie is inside her father's house. Right,
(14:46):
That's the sort of dynamic we have here. So then
as Pat tells the story, he's saying that the argument
moves from in front of Katie's house to in front
of his own house.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
There's a lot I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
He ran and got on the porch and was banging
on the doors, banging on the windows, yelling, cursing, demanding
Katie come out. He was all over the place and
he was running everywhere yelling.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
It was truly truly scary.
Speaker 9 (15:23):
And largely he's saying that once Katie goes inside her parents' house,
that Christian is at the window of that house banging
to be let in, and Katie is inside, not letting
him in.
Speaker 8 (15:33):
But we don't know if that's the front window. In fact,
he kind of intimates that she's on a side window,
not in the living room where everything's supposedly transpired.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But he says.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
Christian's running back and forth, and he sees him over
at the tree on the phone, and then he says
he sees him on the opposite side.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
He would yell at me and get right in my face.
And I've never seen a rage like that in my life.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Okay, at some point y'all got up to the house
and y'all were separated.
Speaker 10 (16:02):
Well, I was.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Over here, somewhere in here. I moved up here, somewhere
in here.
Speaker 12 (16:20):
At the moment, I think if he always came up here,
I think, and all over the place seemed like I
saw him standing with that under that tree down there,
talking on a cell phone.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
But I'm not sure what that was about. I can't,
I can't.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I'm not sure on that.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
And I remember the nine one one person saying I
don't remember all.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I said the questions, and she said something about hospital
or something.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Do you feel threatened? And I said yes.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
So there's a long stretch back and forth from one
side of his house to the other side of his
house and beyond. He's saying it's happening with Christian's movements.
Speaker 12 (17:03):
So where was where was chrished at the whole file
say this time, I'm I'm not sure, all over the place,
running around. I came back after she said safe place,
somewhere right in here, and I looked and his car
(17:25):
was on the other side of that truck.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Oh no, not his car, Caden's car, and.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
He was in it, het up in the doors and
was rummage and throw it back, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And I thought, passed my chance to get in the house,
cause I I couldn't get in the house.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I thought that that's my chance, alright.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
So at that point, you may At that point I
walked the first time, I remember, fast, without looking out,
I walk.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And he saw me.
Speaker 9 (17:57):
I started running, you basically saying, Katie goes in the
house and Christian's banging on the door, banging on the window,
demanding to be let in. Right then he says Christian
goes into Katie's car, which is parked in front of
her parents' driveway, right.
Speaker 8 (18:11):
To the opposite side of her house. So he's now
gone to the left side if you're facing the house
from where they were over on the right side, right.
Speaker 9 (18:18):
And that seems to be where he's saying, is his
opportunity while Christian's in the car to get into the house.
Speaker 8 (18:24):
Right, So then he goes in. He opens the door
with a lock, and he notes that Katie is not
in that living room that he's entering through the front door,
but she's over this other window.
Speaker 9 (18:33):
Right, so she could have run over and you know,
helped him close the door. But it's interesting though. On
the nine one one call, it's a little different. You know,
Pat's outside and saying that Christian's on the porch at
the window, demanding to be let in. And then that's
when he says, this is my chance to go into
the house. So not in the car, out in the
front porch.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Now this I didn't remember. My daughter told me this
this morning. I thought she let me. She said, I
got in with the key. I asked her, I said,
did you let me in? She said no, She said
she was looking out that round window.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Which round window down that road from inside this home.
Yeah right, yeah, okay, but run her out there, okay,
And I said, did you let me in?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
She said no, She said I heard the.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Key and I came running, so I unlocked it myself.
That took some time, I guess, And when I came in,
he was coming up, and she was she was somewhere
right here.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I darted in and I don't remember her pushing, but
she said she helped me push the door.
Speaker 10 (19:45):
Okay, let us move inside the home mouth.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
And show us how the door was closed.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
A smoot van.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I guess I came in. I tried to push it. John,
I guess I got.
Speaker 13 (20:09):
It somewhere along in there, and I guess Katie was
right here, and so we started pushing and he was
pushing the opposite. So we were pushing fiercely, like Liz,
and I don't believe how long, but we managed.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I guess with her him to get it closed.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
And I love that.
Speaker 9 (20:25):
Yeah, he's very clear to say about the details he
doesn't remember. He's like, I'm fuzzy on the details. I
don't really remember exactly I think I was here, But
about the logistics, of where he was. He seems to
be clear on I came in here as pushing the door.
Katie helped me to push the door closed. I was
standing on this side, Katie was behind me. He's articulate
(20:46):
about those positions, but the actual like that, I don't
know when he came through, what I did next, I
don't remember. I'm fuzzy. So it is this interesting combination
of being very clear about specific things and then not
remembering a lot of the details.
Speaker 8 (20:59):
I think that does happen in traumatic moments. I'm not
saying that I agree.
Speaker 9 (21:03):
I mean I have a hard time sort of really
judging his performance. You know, like you're saying, he's walking
us through this, but I don't know how I would react.
I mean I would be if I shot somebody legitimately
out of self defense, I'd be a wreck, And if
I was trying to hold myself together.
Speaker 8 (21:20):
He doesn't feel like a wreck. When he's talking, he
feels very clean. Then he'll say, oh, it's so terrible,
and he'll do something kind of dramatically put his heads
in his hand. But then the way he's kind of
explaining certain things doesn't feel like a wreck.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
They won't long this because I was still here.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I remember that because here's where my mind really gets fried,
and because.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
This was horrified.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I mean, you say, you imagine, but I couldn't imagine.
There was a rage, a monstrous rage in him that
I have ever seen.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
And I was here and all of.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
A sudden, the wind that just just and my daughter,
I fant somewhere here. I remember before my eye she
just went the zerk with terror. I've never seen terror
like that, and now I don't. And she was running.
I don't know what happened much after that, now I'm not.
(22:14):
I got somewhere here and.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
I look and he was coming well, we weren't coming
in at that point.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
His head was sticking in and I don't remember the specifics,
but he said, I'll kill you. And I remember my
daughter was screaming, and I've said here and I don't
know how long it's you know exactly what I did,
and then I knew he was right there.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So what Pat is telling us is that the second
he walked through that door, his daughter was at his side,
and together they pushed the door closed on Christian.
Speaker 8 (22:48):
Who was beating and trying to get in.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Which would have left some physical evidence, so we will
look for that. But also as soon as the door
is closed, that is, when the window is broken, and
there's this very like performative, like he uses his whole
body in his arms to show law enforcement the trajectory
of the glass as it came in.
Speaker 8 (23:12):
And the words that he's using about like this abject
terror that he's describing that Katie, which I would feel
too if there was a you know, a man who's
threatening violence and smashing in the window. But yeah, he
throws his arms up, she makes this noise, and he
embodies this busting glass and Katie's fear, and then we
also have a weird time logistic conundrum happening.
Speaker 10 (23:36):
I think that's interesting that when you see the video
it feels like a performance. When you read the transcript,
it doesn't feel like a performance.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That's a great point. If we were just reading this,
this would be really terrifying. Okay, So from the point
where he says, all right, the glass blew throughout the house,
(24:09):
then patches and hall walks us through going to get
the gun, and where he took aim, how he took aim.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
When the window was forward and the blinds were forward,
pinned against the caps there.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
What side of the window was he coming in?
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Can you recall do you remember any parts of the body, head, leg, anything.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
First thing that faced the face of rage, and then
I ran.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I don't remember that. I ran roun here. There was
a twenty two riffle up there. I see there was
a twenty two there?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Where was Kadi at this at this farm?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
But I grabbed that.
Speaker 11 (25:02):
I can't running in here and this I I don't
know now you don't I don't know it. My mind
has just I saw. My mind is just it's all frightened.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And uh it's just uh, I r I think I
think I fired from heating okay, but.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I cannot say for sure.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
Did you go the sock up to your shoulder and
take aim or did you hold it kind of like
at the waistline.
Speaker 7 (25:36):
And I had I don't know. I I think I.
I think I from the shoulder other than and I
and I think it was from there. And after that,
it's like it's a it's a horrifying.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Can you recall after the last shot.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
What you did with the farmer?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
No?
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I I don't know what in the world is No,
I'm can you call how any shots?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
If I know I don't know.
Speaker 8 (26:05):
But he says always, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 8 (26:07):
I'm not sure. I think I was here. I think
I was here. I think I was here. What I'm
seeing here is not police one hundred percent. I mean,
they're very friendly, but they are questioning once when not
getting answers, circling back and questioning twice. And the police
are asking the same questions we were.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So here's what stood out to me is that law
enforcement asks two specific questions and patchisen Hall does not
even acknowledge that they're asking a question. He just rolls
on with his monologue. They ask him about which side
of the window Christian's body was coming through, and he
just rolls through it. And then they ask him when
(26:45):
they're standing at the door, which side, and he just
rolls right through to the things that he feels need
to be shared. And then when they go back into
the bedroom and they ask him as he's showing them where.
Speaker 8 (26:58):
The guns were in the closet.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
In the closet, they're like, well, where's Katie.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
All the two.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Bits I remember after all of that, when it's like
in a cloud was coming back in here opening this
door from Kadi being in their crime.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
After he had.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Coming after any there and yeah, this was a was afterwards.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
She was in here on the floor crying O door clothes.
I don't say anything to you, No to say, don't
I don't remember. I just remember her crime.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
And he says, yes, no I did, No, I didn't
I did.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, they doubled back on those questions because he, you know.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
Didn't answer them, and also because those are key questions
because they have evidence. They have evidence from crime scene photos,
and they have evidence from the telephone calls.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, so we listened to the nine to one one
calls last episode and really dove into each one. But
I think it bears repeating that all of this happened
in a short amount of time.
Speaker 9 (27:56):
It was like two minutes, less than two minutes. He
he takes his key, unlocks the door, goes into the house,
closes the door behind, and Christian's pushing against the door.
He and Katie are pushing the door. They finally get
the door closed, get the door locked. Then Christian breaks
the window, has his head inside the window, pat then
(28:17):
goes to the closet, retrees his gun, shoots six times,
and then calls nine one again.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And so while he doubles down that he's fuzzy on
the details. I feel like we get a pretty clear
account of what he experienced that day, what Pat says happened,
and then we have the nine to one one calls
in this walk through video. And while law enforcement did
(28:45):
ask some pretty good questions during the walkthrough, they really
didn't seem to do anything further with that information. They
don't pump the brakes. They don't say like, huh, maybe
we should look at things just like a little bit
close or you know. Everybody just seems to accept Pat's
narrative that this was an act of self defense. They
(29:07):
do not interview Tony Griggs until October seventeenth, that's two
full days after Pat's interview and recreation walk through. The
Tony's asked to come down to the Sheriff's office and
he meets with Lieutenant Webb and Detective Armstrong, and that
is when Tony discovers that Pat has retained a lawyer,
(29:28):
he's refused a polygraph, and that he is using the
Castle doctrine as his defense, which, just as a reminder
to all of you, that's a law in North Carolina
that states if someone comes into your home and they
threaten you. You have the right to protect yourself and
your home. And so Tony is not being asked for
a statement in that moment, He's just being told this
(29:51):
is what's happening.
Speaker 14 (29:52):
I can't there's no way to describe to Philly. You
see it on the news, common people being shot being killed,
and you never think it would happen to you, and
then when it happens to you, y'ars just blown away.
Just I didn't know how to respond my emotions and
(30:13):
who I was for.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Months on end is just damaged.
Speaker 14 (30:19):
To walk in and find my son laying on supposedly
his following laws front porch and this guy shot him
and killed him. I just can't put it together.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
He is on the phone with Christian while the altercations
are going on, and he's the first person on scene
after Christian's been shot.
Speaker 10 (30:37):
So Tony is a witness, Yeah, a key witness. Where
is his statement on the day of, or the day.
Speaker 8 (30:46):
After or the day after that?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, to never gather a statement, just to pull him
in and tell him what the resolution of the case
is is incredibly frustrating to Griggs was on site before
the shooting. He left he was called to come back,
and by the time he got there, his son was dead.
And so he was very much a part of that
crime scene and the events that morning. And so when
(31:13):
the local news begins to cover this case, Tony just
happens to see the story when he's watching TV with
his family, and the photos from the crime scene don't
match the scene Tony witnessed when he arrived the day
Christian was shot. And so we'll explore the crime scene
photos as well as the autopsy report, which contains information
(31:35):
that seems very at odds with what Patchisenhall reported in
his reenactment. That's it for this week's episode of True
Crime Story. It couldn't happen here, But be sure to
join us next week as we dive deeper into the
(31:55):
Christian Griggs case.
Speaker 14 (31:58):
When we saw the photographs of crime scene, the window
had been bashed and pushed in, and the first thing
my mom said was that didn't look like that. When
we were there, I was like, no, it didn't.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Join us next week as we continue to roll up
our sleeves and dig in. Thank you so much for
joining us. If you haven't watched Sundance TV's True Crime Story,
it Couldn't Happen Here. You can catch all of our
episodes streaming on AMC Plus. For more information about this
and other cases we've covered, follow at ic HH stories
(32:36):
on Instagram. True crime story It Couldn't Happen Here was
produced by Mischief Farm in association with Bungalow Media and Entertainment,
Authentic Management Productions, and Figdonia in partnership with Sundance TV.
Executive producers are me, Hillary Burton, Morgan Liz Accessor, Robert Friedman,
(32:56):
Mike Powers and Meg Mortimer. Producer are Maggie Robinson Katz
and Libby Siegel. Our audio engineer is Brendan Dalton, with
original music by Philip Radiotis. We want to say a
special thank you to everyone who participated, but especially the
family's impacted by our cases.
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