Mafia Bets, Missing Jewels, and Shocking Surrogacy Scams

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It is a Monday, Oh goodness,
October twenty seventh.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Where is the time going?

Speaker 3 (00:10):
And guess what?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
We have a stacked night of headlines. I'm Stephanie Lei
Decker and I head a KT Studios, where we make
true crime podcasts like in Cells and the Idaho Massacre
season three out now please listen, and documentaries like the
Pike County Murders also on Peacock and the Idaho Student
Murders on Peacock and listen. We have so many headlines

(00:32):
to get to. I'm here with Courtney Armstrong, my true
crime mate, and also Body move In, my other true
crime mate, and we have Taha and Sam and Adam
in the house as well, and we.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Are coming off of a tough weekend.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
And also, first and foremost, we must say that our
hearts and prayers are with Jamaica right now. This you know,
really scary category five ugh hurricane. Hopefully they are not
going to get a direct hit. Our love is going
out to the nice who's a dear friend of the
show and her family who are hunkered down. And again,

(01:10):
anyone whose family and friends are being affected in any way,
please know that our thoughts are really with you.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
And this weekend was a tough one.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
We had three major shootings throughout the country, getting a
lot of minimal coverage, you know, frankly, so we definitely
just want to acknowledge that so much has happened over
the weekend. Saturday am in North Carolina at a Halloween festivity,
kind of a really big party, two killed, eleven wounded.
And then Saturday night in Pennsylvania, another homecoming festivity, another shooting,

(01:44):
leaving one dead and six others injured. Again, our hearts
really go out to their families and their loved ones
of the victims. Can you imagine these are supposed to
be festivities and happy times, and how harrowing that they're
ending so sadly and destructively. And then this NBA scandal

(02:06):
has made us all insane, you know, Federal prosecutors, if
you haven't been following along, officially charged NBA coach Chauncey
Billips and player from Miami, Terry Rosier, and thirty two
others in this very high stakes basically mafia gambling scheme.
And the question is will there be more arrests. This

(02:29):
is just the tip the iceberg. It is straight out
of a movie and there's really so much to unpack there,
and it's so disappointing because people work so hard for
their careers, professional athletes, their entire lives are dedicated to
their sport, and you know, as a fan, it's so
so upsetting. And then straight to Paris the Loup. Two

(02:52):
have been arrested in this major jewel heist. The jewels
have not been found yet, you know, the assertion is
that perhaps they've already been melted down. We've also heard
other accounts that sometimes thieves keep the jewels because they
want to have something to bargain with. But two have
been arrested too, apparently still at large, and we're going

(03:14):
to break down all of the facts regarding that. Plus
Ditty's got a release date just as an FYI, so
we'll be revisiting that.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Also.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Ex Illinois Deputy Sean Grayson is standing trial currently for
the death of Sonya Macy. She was shot very tragically
in her home. He's been charged with first degree murder
and closing arguments could soon start even tomorrow. And really,
I want to know one thing, where are the Epstein files.

(03:45):
Why are they not being released? So we are revisiting
some of the cases that we've been talking about, getting
some updates on Luigi, Like I said, Diddy a little
bit on Epstein and the Palisades fire.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
That trial is going to happen really quickly.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
So the person who has been accused is looking at
a trial date in December.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
So where should we begin, Ladies?

Speaker 3 (04:07):
First of all, how are you? That was a lot? Sorry,
but it's going on.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
There's a lot going on in the world.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
People have no jobs, the federal government is closed, airlines
are getting shut.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Commet heading toward the planet.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Like the commet.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
What is happening with this alleged commet heading toward us
or the Sun? We have been talking about this all
day around. I'm too scared to look, and we just
don't know what's true. We really take the sourcing so seriously,
making sure that we're getting it on all sides. And
in this particular comment, that is an apparently an interstellar event,

(04:42):
the third of its kind in Earth's history, is apparently
happening very very soon. So we've heard all sides of it.
We don't know what's true in this case. If you
do please, please, please jump in share the information. It's
really bad. I'm too scared.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
I don't want to hear it.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I also just watched the series Paradise for the very
first time.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I don't know if anyone's seen it.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
It's on Hulu now and it stars Sterling Brown from
This Is Us and also Julianne Nicholson.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
She's so good.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
If you guys haven't seen.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
That, that's a real binge watch, and it seems incredibly
timely and a real quick watch. So by quick, I
mean you know, twelve hours or so if you start
right now after the show.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
We can talk about it tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
But it kind of touches on all of these really scary,
harrowing things. So anyway, we're so glad to be with
you tonight. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Jump in.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
We want to hear your talkbacks as always, keep them coming. Hey,
we've gotten a few little cleaning tips and also some
hotel tips, so we want to share those lots of
great information that we can't wait to share.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
So yeah, where should we begin, ladies.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
I think we start with what's doing with this MBA
slash mafia business? Because this is this is something federal prosecutors.
They've charged NBA coach coach Chauncey Billups and player Tayor
Terry Rosier.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Excuse me, my pronunciations off today.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
So those two guys and thirty two others in two
major federal indictments, and they're exposing how members of four
New York mafia families use technology, They use professional athletes
as well as intimidation to run this multi million dollar
illegal betting and rigged poker operation. This happened across eleven states,

(06:42):
so it really does seem like out of a movie.
The two cases, the titles are amazing. One was called
Operation Nothing But Bet and the other is Operation Royal Flush,
and they mark the most sweeping mafialing gambling prosecutions in years.
And the indictment connects La Costro Nochra's enduring influence with

(07:05):
modern sports corruption and implicating high profile NBA figures in
these schemes. So it's kind of old school extortion and
cutting edge tech fraud. I've really never heard anything like it.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, this is two part because this hits in a
couple of different categories. First off, the mafia and the
mob old school reco charges. This is where Rico charges began. Obviously,
we saw those being played out in a different way
when Ditty was charged.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Reco charges in.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
You know, crime families is a really big deal because
you're you know, it's a whole group. It's very rare
for them to be working together, usually these crime families
or opposing crime families. In this case, it appears that
four of them were kind of incahoots working in collaboration.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
So A, that's very very unique. B.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
The technology is pretty unbelievable, so you know, we're way
past card counting. This is like real tech tables that
were warm that they could actually read cards, special glasses.
You know, these were high stakes games that were being
set up in various states, and then wealthy people who

(08:16):
like celebrities were being lured to the table to throw
down real money. And then NBA insiders, which to me
is just crushing on behalf of all sports. NBA insiders
were essentially or allegedly throwing the game or sharing insider
information that would not normally be publicly known if you

(08:38):
weren't an insider. And again there's a lot of chatter
that you know, these guys, meaning the coach that's now
been indicted and of course the player from Miami who's
also been indicted that they're just the tip of the iceberg.
I mean, imagine being a Miami Heat player. You're making
hundreds of millions, right, those are like major contracts, and

(08:59):
you throw it all away over a card game.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Allegedly, he would basically.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Say, oh yeah, I'm gonna play for nine and a
half minutes and then I'm gonna fake an injury and
then the bet would go in the other way and
then they would make millions.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
Right, it's gonna take an injury and they can bet
on his underperformance.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Right. That's crazy exactly. God, oh, all of it.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
And this really goes hand in hand with the proliferation
in the past, you know, five to seven years of
so much more betting and all of these bettings, you know,
being announced in the middle of games and stuff. So
there's so many more ways to bet as well. Right,
but four families are involved, the Gambino, the Giovac, the Laksi,

(09:47):
and the Bano no Banajo.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
So all of those families in crime family.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's very scary. Remembers snitches get stitches in the crime family.
You don't want to mess around. I wonder if if
maybe these guys were pulled in or they were gambling
or had debts of their own that they had to
pay off. Again, this is this is just a theory,
not a fact in any university. But is it possible
that you know, they got in over their head and
if they didn't show up for the game to play

(10:17):
or give the information as needed, that they would be harmed?
Isn't that the isn't that sort of the playbook for
the mob allegedly allegedly allegedly.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
It absolutely is.

Speaker 5 (10:29):
And the player Rosier allegedly tipped off associates that he
would fake injuries and this happened during a March twenty
twenty three Hornets Pelican game, and that allowed them to
place over two hundred thousand dollars in bets on his underperformance.
Authorities have also identified seven different NBA games between February

(10:51):
twenty three and March twenty four that are under scrutiny.
This involves the Lakers, the Raptors, thunder Bucks, Hornets, Pelicans,
and the Bulls. So that's the score side, yeah, and
then on the poker side, so people were brought in,
they were lured into these high stakes poker games, that

(11:14):
it appeared really legit, really exclusive, but they were rigged
with such crazy technology. We're not talking about just counting cards.
It was hidden cameras in the tables. It was X
ray card reading tables, special contact lenses that could read
the mark cards. And this, yeah, this poker ring allegedly

(11:37):
stole almost seven million dollars and some individuals lost up
to almost two million dollars. So it's really far it's
far reaching.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
And by the way, for these guys, for coach Chauncey Billips,
this is really upsetting. And if this is true, what
a stain for your team and the people who have
dedicated themselves so diligently to your word, right and again
for the player in the Miami Heat, what a bummer
for your teammates, Like, talk about a real Judas move.

(12:10):
This is your this is your NBA family. So is
this just the tip of the iceberg?

Speaker 3 (12:15):
You know?

Speaker 1 (12:15):
There has been chatter that coach Chauncy Phillips when he
went to court to face these federal charges, he arrived
kind of in this brown hoodie and on the hoodie
there was a logo that said Clutch Sports Group and
Clutch Sports Group allegedly this part is not allegedly, but

(12:38):
you know, Lebron James is involved in that group. There's
very high profile names in that Clutch group. And you know,
many are saying online that this was like a bat
call basically to say, hey, look, I'll take the hit
right now, but you better come find me and you
better come help me, or you're going to go down
with me. And that chatter is pretty real. And this

(13:00):
is a little outside of my purview. But you know,
was that intentional that we do not know or was
that just the choice of a sweatshirt? But I would
have to assume these two guys aren't the only ones
playing dirty.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And if that's the case. If that's the case, it's
just a bummer.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
So the people playing the games were just regular people
like the Pulker games.

Speaker 5 (13:24):
They were regular, they were people with money, they were
it was sort of you know, because these were not
ten dollars bets. If you're there losing, you know, one
guy one point eight million dollars that.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
He lost on a bet.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
And by the way they're being these bets are being
set up and engineered in these very fancy schmancy places
in locations, so they're they're really luring in a very
specific type. They're getting in the people that are high
rollers that have money to spend. Little do they know
they're walking into a total con job. And the NBA
people are feeding some insider information, so not on long

(14:01):
are they doing you know, card reading at the most
advanced level, Like if you see the machines online, You're like,
how who is making who is taking the time to
even do this? Why are we not channeling that that
smarts and that big brain for something positive? It takes
so much work to do this. You know, these people

(14:21):
could be making the world better. And then ultimately these
men would walk away, you know, a million plus dollars
in the hole.

Speaker 5 (14:29):
And when players refused, when they refuse to pay, mafia
and forcers are brought in and robbery, assault and extortion
were involved, including there was one gunpoint robbery, another incidant
where a victim was punched in the face.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah, be called what's the movie called? I think it's
shooting hoops or something.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Bad fellas saft Lunch, Operation Royal Flush, Operation Royal Flush.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
Will stay tuned for that.

Speaker 6 (14:57):
Well.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
They finally called the two suspects in the loop Jewel
Feast thanks to DNA, but the Crown Jewels themselves have
vanished without a trace.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Plus the latest Luigi.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Mangione keeper right here, True Ground Tonight.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and body move in and we are jamming
through headlines happening tonight. Listen, I might have said a
three year old in the last segment at the shooting
on Friday in Washington, d C.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
It was a.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Thirteen year old, So if I misspoke, please and you
know again five injured there.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
And then moving on now to Boddy.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
I know you've been following this case so closely about
the deputy and what his fate will be.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
Yeah. So Sean Grayson. He is the former Illinois sheriff
deputy on trial for the twenty twenty four killing of
Sonia Macy. He took the stand today in his own defense,
which is kind of a rare thing, right when defendants
take the stand to testify on their own behalf. He
testified today that he perceived Sonia Macy as a threat
and argued that firing his gun was necessary to gain compliance.

(16:18):
So Sonia Macy. She was a thirty six year old
black mother of two. She called nine one one to
report a suspected prowler in her Springfield, Illinois home. In
that you know, prompted Deputy Sean Grayson and Dawson Farley
to respond right well. During the encounter, Sonia, she held
this pot of water in her kitchen and Sean Grayson

(16:41):
lethally shot her and what he claims was an act
of self defense.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Right.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
I think there's his body, can't putage. It's horrific. Excuse me.
He testified today that he did not use his stun
gun because he was unsure if it would penetrate her
clothing and function effectively. He also said that he approached
Sonia to check for other potential weapons and intended to

(17:08):
handcuff her. He intended to handcuff her for alleged aggravated
assault on a police officer. He also said that Sonia
turned off the burner on the stove, picked up the pot,
and she starts walking toward me. He said he believed
the pot was hot because she used oven myths to

(17:28):
pick it up. Here's what he said. I wasn't quite
sure what she was going to do. He told the
court Grayson, this is again the officer. Grayson said, he
started backing away from her and she asked, where are
you going. He told her that he was not moving,
that he was moving away from your hot, steaming water.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
This is so odd.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
The exchange was captured on bodycam video, which we've all seen.
I've seen it many times.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
It's terrible.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
It was publicly released and it was played in court.
So after grabbing this, you know, pot of water, Sonia
Macy told the depututies, I rebuke you in the name
of Jesus, to which the deputy replied and he said,
you better effing not. I swear to God, I'll effing
shoot you in your effing face. Well, last week the

(18:20):
prosecution called expert witnesses in police training who testified that
Sean Grayson was not facing a credible threat and that
he escalated the situation with his reaction. You know, we
often hear about these police encounter de escalation techniques, right, Well,
he didn't employ any of those.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
And you know, we've seen the tape and I don't
even know if I encourage anyone listening to go see it,
because it's extremely raw and extremely triggering and really upsetting.
What I'm curious about is what happened prior to that?
We see the same footage here is you know, mom
feels that there's a prowler in and around her home.
She calls nine to one one, nine one one arrives

(19:03):
and that in her That exchange is confusing to me because.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
We don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
How did it journed from suddenly her being the suspect
and being you know, he's in her house and they're
already in this heated, really scary conversation.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
And but what happened.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Prior to that? Where is the help that she was
asking for?

Speaker 4 (19:24):
Well, she had some mental health challenges, which again, these
police de escalation techniques are supposed to recognize. Right, the
police are trained and well they're starting to be trained
in these these issues that the community has. Right, We've
all got problems, but Sonia had some some some you know,
some problems. And I don't know what happened, but I'm

(19:45):
going to guess that maybe her behavior he perceived as
a rabbit, and maybe maybe that started a confrontation of
some kind.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I will say is pretty real. You know, if someone's
going to throw boiling water as shoes. That real.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I don't know, no, of course, no knowing what we
know now, it.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Seems insane, but you know, in a flash of a minute,
in a split second, those are the decision points that
people are put into. You have to just sort of
look at the tape. I'm surprised he took the stand.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
I am too, Courtney, what were you going to say?

Speaker 5 (20:17):
But yeah, Grayson's own partner, which is very rare Dawson Farley.
He also mentioned that Grayson did not de escalate, that
he was the one who ratcheted up the situation.

Speaker 7 (20:31):
And didn't his partner also say he didn't feel that
she was a threat, like he felt it was fine,
So I find that unusual as and then when.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
He went to go render first aid, he said, don't
even bother, basically.

Speaker 7 (20:43):
Don't help, and that Grayson turned his own camera off
or for some reason his camera wasn't running.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
His camera wasn't running, but his excuse me, I've got
a frog in my throat.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh that's a little you have a little men in
your throat?

Speaker 4 (20:58):
What's going on?

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, a little hiccup. Because this is also a really
tough topic, right, you know, you watch that tape. This
is a mom of two, and if she's experiencing some
sort of mental break or some issues. Again, you don't
just roll into somebody's house and shoot them down.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
It's brutal.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
No, And it's very curious the mention that he worried
that his stun gun wouldn't be effective.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, I've just never heard that.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
They seem effective in every situation I've ever read about his.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Partner, Deputy Farley, he testified that Sonya never acted in
a way that made him feel threatened. And he you know,
he made an initial report, well he revised it after
Sean got indicted to clarify that it was Sean's actions,
not the hot water, that caused his heightened sense awareness

(21:54):
his own. Basically, the officer was making the other officer uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Right, and think about it, are you turning on your partner?
You know that's also very rare. Let's be real, right,
I have to commend that deputy Deputy Valley, for you
spot a lot of courage. It's like like this that
give you know, police officers just a bad rap.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Right.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
So you know, we're seeing sort of the language that
was being used in the aggression that was being used
that was not de escalating, quite the opposite, right, So yeah,
it's it's just real messy and it's heartbreaking, it is.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
So yeah, the defense we have to sell both sides, right.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
The defense called its own expert witness who argued that
use of force can also be a de escalation technique
and said Sean Grayson's use of force was appropriate. So
we're going to find out. We could have a decision
maybe you know, Wednesday, so we'll we'll follow up on it.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
Yeah, we will keep you updated. This is true Crime tonight.
We're on iHeartRadio. Courtney here with Body Movin and Stephanie Leidecker.
We've been talking about the case of Sean Grayson, a
former Illinois Charity sheriff deputy, and he's on trial for
killing Sonya Macy.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
We will stay on with that. We would love to
hear your thoughts.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
We're at eighty eight three one crime, So give us
a call if you have questions about anything crime related,
or you can always set us on the talkbacks on
the iHeartRadio app up right hand corner, press little microphone,
leave a message.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
And you are on the show. Now. I wanted to
give a quick update on the loof.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, I mean this story with Macy it makes me so.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Sad and mad.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
So not that the Louver thing is lighter by any means.
You know, thieving is not okay. But tell us take
us to Paris, Courtney, Let's go to Paris.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
Wait haven't you already been there?

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Courtney? Oh, I've actually been looking enough a couple of times.
She's suffering from jet lag, right as Ed points it
out that Sunday, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Oh we miss you, Ed.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
You're keeping close eyes on this court new yar. I'm
not you making sure got your back.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
That's all right.

Speaker 5 (24:12):
So two suspects in the Louver Crown Jewel highest have
been arrested, and.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
That happened using DNA evidence.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
However, the stolen eighty eight million or so dollars in
jewels remain missing, and the hunt for additional thieves is
continuing as well. So last Sunday, if you've been asleep
for a little bit, last Sunday, four thieves broke into
one of the galleries at the Louver.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
This happened in broad daylight.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
It was about nine am on a Sunday morning, and
using power tools to drill into display cases and threatening
guards before escaping on scooters. So it was not the
most high tech heist in the world.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Know when they were very sloppy on the way out
because they were leaving things left, right and backwards for
all this DNA to actually catch them by the wait
one of them was on a plane to Algeria when
he was really taken off the clowning. Yeah, like literally
like why are you leaving all of this behind? That
is not a very clean operation. They actually pulled it off,

(25:15):
got up on that crane, took the crane back, got
on scooters, and yet you're leaving behind all of this
you know, basic stuff right right.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
Well, we don't know if there are other partners who
are prepared that they ditched them off to to then
manage what the manipulation of the jewels, whether it's the
you know, burning it down or melting it down rather.
But what these guys lacked in high tech getting in,
they they made up for in knowing that there was

(25:47):
weak security coverage. There were gaps in the CCTV and
misaligned exterior cameras. So this is all of those were
what allowed the heights to occur.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
And aside, you know, how do you not look at
that as being slightly an inside job somewhere in the systems.

Speaker 5 (26:07):
Yes, and in one's mind will go there exactly right.

Speaker 7 (26:11):
I'm the only ones super shocked at there would be
such weak security at this room.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yes, I mean it's offense if it is to go
to the loover too. It's like you have to wait
in that line. It is expensive. You know, these are
crown jewels that should be guarded, you know, in.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Such a special way.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Also, these two guys, again my personal theory, I think
there's probably two to three others out there that left.
These guys that take the They were like, lose these two,
the messy ones.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
You know, we got what we needed.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
We're out of here.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
You guys get tickets to go to Algeria or wherever.
Only one of them and you know, cut cut bait
and get on with the show.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I don't know that they're going to find the other ones.
In my head, that's George Clooney's part with Brad Pitt
and the coutting off into this absolutely wearing crowns.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
Well, I'm imagining they're being questioned on things and they're
you know, activities being tracked for the last week.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Were they not wearing masks, they had likes.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Kind of situation.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Can you imagine how scary it would be to be
on your way back. You have the jewels, they're in
your possession, You're on the crane.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
It's so slow going down, even.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Though it's fast, but it looks pretty slow at the
same time, like you must be losing your mind with
fear of being caught.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
Then to get on a scooter successfully the.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
Scooter is I mean, I said, none of this is funny,
but the scooters give me a bit of a giggle.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
The scooters make sense to me because like those streets
are molded, they can go in and out of I'm
literally thinking of like Jason Bourne, Jason wore Oh my god,
like Jason Bourne would have percent had a new identity
at this point. Exactly I can see him on.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
A scooter in the streets of Paris, you know, and yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Oh one thing.

Speaker 5 (28:12):
So, the security guards at the Loop have been getting
a little slack because what they did was, you know,
run away. However, they were threatened, and the Paris officials
have made it clear that they are absolutely one hundred trained.
If there is any threat to human beings themselves or anyone.
It is the absolute priority to get people out. So

(28:35):
I just I feel a little bit batter.

Speaker 7 (28:36):
I think.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
I think none of this stuff is worth dying for,
right exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
What are they going to get into a shootout and
put their lives on the line over you know, a
crown that's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
No, thank god, everybody's okay.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
And there were no casualties, right right, Yeah, So these
two men, they're in their thirties, both with prior jewel
theft conviction stop it.

Speaker 7 (28:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
And so those the two that were arrested and that followed.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
And jewel thievery. I never heard of this before. I
think there were the last two in on the conversation.
They were like this the big scheme. Guys were like,
and then we're going to get those two silly thieves
that get caught every time, and we're going to be
like God, and then we're going to be off into
the sunset with our new identities tan and living our
best lives someplace else.

Speaker 8 (29:26):
You know.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
I mean they had to be they had to be
looked up somehow, to be contacted, right, Like to show
me people who have jewel thieves, convictions or something.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Maybe they could look at maybe they can look at
Google searches and see who searchs right.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
Well, And the authorities didn't need to look all that
far because these arrested suspects did live behind. They left gloves,
they left a walkie talkie, they left a vest, and
they left a can of gasoline at the crime scene.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
They left the.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Vest they like, and they were like, I don't where
all the DNA came from. I don't know all of
the items left behind.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
In under four.

Speaker 5 (30:05):
Minutes, throwing the glove off their hand, poopoo done with this.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Well, I guess the takeaway here is, glove, don't if
you're gonna pull something like this off, don't hire people
who've already been convicted for it, right exactly. Obviously they
failed once before at least, and the DNA's in the system,
So that's a takeaway. I'm gonna I don't.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Think that big of a scheme. Is that small minded?

Speaker 4 (30:28):
No, that's true, that's true.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
I'm so interested and curious to see how this all
plays out. And to your point, the security teams that
are working there again, they're getting so much sup and
you know, everybody lay off. That's right, listen, did he
is getting a release date. It's officially set for May eighth,
twenty twenty eight, and he's allegedly having a little bit

(30:51):
of a hard time behind bars. He's definitely craving his
transfer to a lower security prison. Some sort of a
friend of his seems to be saying that he has
has been attacked behind bars and that he woke up
to a to a knife.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
To his throat five days ago.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
So listen, it's not an easy road where he is
right now, and allegedly he wants to be transferred and
be transferred quick. Obviously we don't want him being harmed
behind bars, but yeah, it's scary getting attacked, and it
also must be scary for one of his victims who's
allegedly been punched in the face, you know, a bajillion

(31:26):
times and have had their lives threatened. So I feel
a little divided about this one. But his date has
been set, and Mark Erragos his not his actual attorney.
His actual attorney is Tenny Geragos, who is the infamous
Mark Garragos's daughter follow me here anyway, So Mark Erragos

(31:49):
is saying that, listen, did he is going to have
a comeback like no other.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
Really hmmm, stranger though I don't know. It feels like
smooth bo looks like mirrors. I think it's a thing
that you say, like that sounds great creazy to show confidence,
right exactly? To show confidence? And who am I?

Speaker 3 (32:07):
Perhaps that is true, but I don't know.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
Are you bringing Who's bringing their teenage daughter to his concert?
Who's buying there at the Shawn John line for their
middle school boy? Who's I don't know because time will tell, though.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
I guess time will tell. People have small attention spans,
and you know, we're covering some stories even tonight with
some updates that it's like, oh, remind me again when
it was the biggest case of the time. Right, So
now fast forward to May twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
What will the vibe be by then?

Speaker 1 (32:44):
If Diddy's on his best behavior, he's going to a
fairly low security prison from here, you know, he'll be
in good shape.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
He will be clean and.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Sober, allegedly allegedly allegedly, and maybe off to a new start.
You know, people are very forgiving and love a comeback.
It makes me kind of nauseous when I think about it,
But stranger things really have happened, and there is a
possibility that he will get pardon. The President Trump has
that option, and his defense attorneys have made the official request.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Wow, I'll be surprised if that happens. Actually, you know what,
what will you?

Speaker 4 (33:22):
What am I thinking?

Speaker 3 (33:23):
What am I thinking? I will be too, though, I
will be.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
I'm going to put my I'm going to put my
my my sights on happier, higher pastures. And I would
be really surprised if that happens as well.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah, I'd be. It'd be shocking a little bit.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
I think as shocking as Gaylaine Maxwell in the Epstein case,
you know, Jeffrey Epstein's co conspirator, if she is released,
that too would also.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Be upsetting and surprising. Mess. Should we go to a talkback?

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I know, I feel like I'm bringing all the down
our subjects. I don't know, is there like a lie
a topic or a talkback?

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Taha?

Speaker 7 (34:03):
Yeah, let's go to a talkback. We've got a couple.

Speaker 9 (34:07):
My husband ran major hotels in the nation, and I
bring my own blanket, I bring my own pillowcase, and
I always bring plastic bags to stick around the remote
because they never clean those remotes. I never use an
ice bucket because people are known to pee in them.
So never, ever, ever, ever, ever use and ice bucket.

(34:28):
They are disgusting.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Ok, I'm in love.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
By the way, this is per our conversation from last
night when we were talking about hotel rooms. By the way,
on Diddy's watch, Remember, the most luxurious hotel rooms imaginable
were literally put out of order because there were so
much grossness and like the carpets.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Would be soaked with like people's stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
I mean, just think about it, so and imagine that's
the high high, high class ones.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
What about the less class ones? Right?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
So this is a girl after my own heart. Insider
information there. I like it, the remote control in the bucket,
in the bucket.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
I work in the hotel industry, as you all know.
I live in Las Vegas, and I work in hospitality
and the work in you know, computers and stuff. And
I have to tell you this doesn't resonate with me
or very clean like I'm not going to tell you
like the casinos I work for, but there they take
a lot of pride in in the cleanliness of the
hotel rooms.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
That gives me very It isn't a lot of this
doesn't track for me.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Now listen, I don't know you know what other hotels
are doing that I can. I can tell you that,
you know they it's taken very serious. They take it
very seriously.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
There was a time that I was on the Yeah,
I was on the road at so many different hotels
throughout the country, and a pretty i would say, a
one to two star maybe it's.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
A one star hotel chain, but a well known one.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
And I used to we used to get little like
sleeping bags and sleeping as the being bag over the beds.

Speaker 7 (36:01):
Open the beds so you wouldn't even get in the sheets,
or oh.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Wow, the ice bucket bothers me because listen, I'm obsessed
with ice. I have an ice. I can't drink. You
have to have ice.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
You just can't drink anything without ice.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
When I went to Europe in Malaysia and I would
get like the looks because I'd ask for ice.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
You know, they're like, what are you talking? I use
the baggie, the baggie, I.

Speaker 7 (36:27):
Used that clear plastic bag. Yeah that's what you're supposed
to use.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
But I guess, But think about it, it's a really
good point. You're out boozy. The boys are boozing a
little too mun and the ice bucket.

Speaker 7 (36:38):
The bathroom is three feet away.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
People.

Speaker 5 (36:42):
You guys have different friends than I do.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Listen, again, there was a lot of there's a lot
of people in and out period the end. So we're
adding to the packing scenario. Some plastic bags, throw those in,
bring the pillowcase, throw that in and boom, you're off
to the races.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Great talk back.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Thank you for the tips.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
Yes, thank you for that.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
I think.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
Stephanie's neurosis grows before control.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
That never occurred to me.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
I would never use the ice bucket period again, regardless,
but the remote control good one.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, that's a really good one.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
Well listen, this is true Crime tonight. We're on iHeartRadio.
I'm Courtney here with my buddy Body Movin and the
impeccably clean Stephanie Leidecker, and we are just enjoying some
tips from a talkback. Thank you very much on hotel friendliness.
So give us your tips. Eight at eighty three to
one Crime. I wanted to give you an update on

(37:45):
Jonathan Rindernickah. So, yeah, he is the man who was
arrested for the arson of the deadly Palisades fire. He
has pleaded not guilty. His child discussed dueled soon. It's
scheduled for December sixteenth, and the twenty nine year old

(38:06):
is accused of starting the fire. It happened in January
of this year. It feels like it was dog years
and I can't imagine for you, Stephanie, even more than that,
But it was January.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Of this year.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
Twelve people were killed, more than twenty three thousand acres
were destroyers destroyed and rendered. It basis federal charges that
include destruction of property, arson, affecting property used in interstate commerce,
and setting timber afire, with potential prison time up to
forty five years.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
And I'm still not understanding.

Speaker 5 (38:43):
Why the twelve people who lost their life are not
included in the indictment.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
It's really confusing. I think we should have a legal expert.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Maybe Jerik can come on and discuss it, because the
fact that they're not being listed, I think is a tell.
The fact that it's a federal trial that's being scheduled
so quickly. How many trials do we talk about that
are still out here easier? You know, we're we're we're
all looking for information on Tyler Robinson and where's the information,
where's the information?

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Where's the information?

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Rex Zerman, there's like like very little exactly correct body.
So this guy, they're like, oh yeah, he's the one.
You know, Arson, as we've learned, is very hard to prove.
You know, I am obviously a little personally attached to
it and want justice more than most and on behalf
of all of the palisades. Everybody deserves answers.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
But I don't know, is it just also a little political?

Speaker 1 (39:39):
You know, is is the governor going to run for president?

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Is this a bad look?

Speaker 1 (39:44):
I mean, it was so destructive and you know, let's
let's get the guy.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
I hope it is the guy and that there is
some justice to be had, but I don't know. They're
they're there, they are big amounts of of evidence. Also
seems I don't know, it's circumstantial.

Speaker 7 (40:06):
But I do think we need an expert to come
back on or someone we had.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
That he was great, Yeah, he was great investigator. He
was really good.

Speaker 7 (40:16):
He was really interesting, and I think maybe he might
have some insight as to why they're going that approach
of not going I mean, there are twelve people that died,
So it just doesn't make sense.

Speaker 5 (40:25):
To me, right, So it again it's it's happening speedily.
There's going to be a status conference on November twelfth,
which again is an advance two weeks. Yes, and that
is a status conference in advance of the trials supposed
to start December sixteenth, which is insane. Mirinder, Nicked will

(40:45):
remain in federal custody. In federal custody, a judge has
denied his attorney's requests for release, and his defense claims
that this is he's being totally unfairly blamed for the fire.
They plan to fight aggressively challenged the charges. They argue
he has no prior criminal record, no mental health issues,

(41:06):
and no history of drug use. Of course it's the
defense attorneys per view to do that, but this will
be one to watch. And Stephanie, I think it's interesting
what you bring up about Governor Newsom and tying this
up in need he would be convenient.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
We're talking about Luigi Tyler, like these are the biggest
cases and that they're still out there in the ether.
There's no dates being said, there's more conversation between attorneys.
This guy is going to be in court in a month,
literally month and a half max and charged federally.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
Well, speaking of Luigi, really I have an update on
that because he's also being charged federally and we're still
waiting a year now, while almost a year it's been.
He was arrested in on December ninth, so it's almost
been a year. It's been about ten months. So he
has a trial in Pennsylvania because he was arrested in

(42:05):
Pennsylvania and he was charged for carrying a firearm without
a license, forgery, tampering with records, IDs false identification to
law enforcement, and possessing instruments of a crime. Well, they're
denying him the ability to appear in person and he's
refusing to appear remotely, So the judge is ordered that

(42:27):
it's on hold right now, like his hearing in Pennsylvania
is officially on hold. As a reminder, Luigi is accused
of killing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson outside a Manhattan hotel,
which triggered this multi day manhunt from Central Park. Remember
that backpack they found in Central Park full of Monopoly money? Yes,

(42:48):
all the way to Altoona, Pennsylvania. He faces both state
and federal charges including murder, weapons offenses and federal charges
that could possibly carry the death penalty. So right now
that it's on hold of his Pennsylvania because they really
want him to appear in person. I don't know why.
I don't know why. I don't know if this is
a tactic or if this is you know, for delay purposes,

(43:11):
or if he really wants to travel to Pennsylvania to
appear in person.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
An if he does want to travel, is that like
does he.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
Want to escape or something like?

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, no, because everybody thinks he's so handsome. There have
been like hot Boy Luigi competitions. He's getting more male
than celebrities get behind bars. People are obsessed with him.
They actually like him and applaud what he's done. So yeah,
maybe making a public appearance in his mind or the

(43:39):
defense's mind would bring him some favor and by then
a way, you know, making an assertion that the Pacific
Palisades accused man and Luigi probably the timeline. Even as
I'm talking it out with myself, the Palisades guy isn't
up for a death penalty trial, so maybe that's slowing
the process. But I am just saying, as an in general,

(44:03):
this feels real quick.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Oh, we got the guy.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
He was like, started a different fire at a different places,
just arrested. He was just arrested, and yep, he's gonna
go away, And that to me just seems weird.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
Although I don't I mean, if we're gonna talk about this,
I don't necessarily see the federal government trying to help
Gavin Newsom out. Fair that's a fair point, I don't think, right,
I just don't see that happening.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Yea, And Governor knewsim ps he has come out and
publicly said that he confirmed he's considering the twenty twenty
eight presidential run.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Convenient.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
Yeah, not that this is any big shock, but it
is official as of a day ago.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
And by the way, it's not that even if this
guy did do it, but I guess this is the fear. Yes,
if this guy did do it, okay, let's go, let's
have a trial and find out. But there were so
many things along the way that were there were no
checks and balances. I experienced it firsthand, from there not
being water in hydrants and the lack of infrastructure and

(45:06):
the lack of preparation. Why was a fire eleven miles
away even simmering for that long? Was it not checked
out enough where there are enough resources deployed to that,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I think there's
a lot of hands in this one that have affected.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
A lot of people.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Twelve people died, and why are their names not in
the indictment?

Speaker 7 (45:27):
Right?

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Well, as far as Luigi's concerned, the judge ordered that
every sixty days, the court must be updated on Luigi's
ability to appear. Also, Luigi and his defense have fourteen
days to file a formal request to appear in person
or reconsider applying or appearing remotely.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
We will keep you updated on that.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
And also I have a quick correction for myself regarding
the louver. I said that the jewels were alleged to
be worth eighty eight million dollars. It's eighty eight million euro.
So quick correction, but stick with us. We have the
latest in Tyler Robinson, the man charged with killing Charlie Kirk,
and much more true Crime Tonight.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong. Body move in and listen. If you've missed
any of the first hour of the show, Bam, it
is flying by.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
What just happened? Where do the hour go?

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Already?

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Please check it out as a podcast and also if
you want to join us please eight eight eight three
one crime let's go to we talk Back.

Speaker 10 (46:46):
Hi, guys, it's Aliah in BC Canada. I just wanted
to send a message out to all those shy people
sending dms and not doing a talk back. Facts are
super easy, and yeah, I kind of don't like the
sound of my voice when I hear it, but it's
pretty exciting when I get to hear myself on the show,

(47:07):
So don't be afraid to send in a talkback. And
thank you to everybody on the show there for playing
my talkbacks even though I'm silly.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
We love silly talk.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Oh oh that was so good. But way where did
we didn't pay her to say that?

Speaker 1 (47:22):
And by the way, I think we always say that,
you know, we always are saying like we have to
talk back and boom, you're on the show, but it's
not like you're live.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
You know, you can.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Call us live.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
By the way, it's very exciting and we love that too.
But you could just leave a talkback, think of it.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Like a little voice memo, and then we'll play it
on the show. We would all just zip it a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
We'd have more time for the talkbacks, right, So we
want more talkbacks. And by the way, it's talkback Tuesday tomorrow,
so we're gonna GM through. I'm gonna zip my lips
shut and be white mouse. A little mouse.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
Tuesday is my favorite because I don't have to do anything,
so I guess had to listen and that's my favorite.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Yeah, we love it.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
We love the top backs. We get such a kick
out of it. And the dms are great as well.
H and again calls live that's always fun.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
Mm hmm, yeah, no, thank you for that. So I
have an update on Sarah Grace Patrick. Do you guys
remember her?

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Of course, she.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
Is the girl accused of fatally shooting her mother and
stepfather back in February. Well, she has plied not guilty
and she's gonna she got a trial date. It's going
to be set for January fifth of twenty twenty sixth.
Wow again Sarah Grace Patrick. She's a teenager from Carl Harlton.
She was arrested on July eighth, and remains in the

(48:40):
Carroll County Jail under isolation for her own safety. She
is charged with multiple counts, including malice and felony murder,
aggravated assault, and possession of a firearm during the commission
of a felony. Do you guys remember she was the
TikToker and she was reaching out to true crime people
on TikTok saying you should cover my mom and dad's case,

(49:03):
and she would be making videos crying and whatnot. She
wanted people to cover her case. And now she's been
charged with it. It's kind of frightening.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
It's like familial side, right, It's very rare. And you
know this was also on the heels when we were
talking a lot about the Menendez brothers and their hope
for release, which seems far away.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, it's brutal.

Speaker 5 (49:28):
You have to think that whatever whatever led up to.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
This night, it's just very sad.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
It's very sad.

Speaker 5 (49:38):
Whatever the circumstances, whatever was happening or not happening in
Sarah Grace Patrick's life, you know, whatever is happening with
her mother and her stepfather. Of course, Sarah Grace Patrick's
I believe around six year old sister who found her
own parents.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
That part is so like, if Sarah Grace Patrick is
responsible for this, that's the part to me that is so.
I mean, the whole thing is absolutely tragic, but letting
your little sister be the one to find your mom
and dad is diabolical.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
And they were sleeping at the time, right, So mom
and stepdad were murdered by her. And to your point,
she was very theatrical and performative, allegedly allegedly allegedly during
her tiktoks and the eulogy that she she had.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
At mom's funeral.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
You know, but listen, the other side of the family
has really positive things to say about her, and they
do are also standing by her. So either, I mean,
this could be a lot of things, right, is this
massive mental illness unchecked and at play?

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Totally agree with your body.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
The fact that you're setting up your six year old
sister to find her own mother and stepfather, you know,
dead in that manner is unthinkable. Was there perhaps something
else happening behind the scenes in Sarah Grace's life that
you know, would would lead a young girl, you know
she's a teenager to do such a thing, or you know,

(51:08):
many have said it was a cry for popularity and
fame and all of the tiktoking and you know social
media stuff.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Would would maybe you know, would follow that.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I find that impossible to believe because that just seems
so so heinous. But I also don't want a victim
shame any of the family dynamics without having the facts right.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
And whatever the facts that the prosecutors did present to
the judge, Judge just Dustin high Tower denied the bond
and it was because of evidence and concerns from the
victim's family and it seemed like they were potentially expressing
fear for their own safety.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
Yeah, I read that.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
The stepfather's family, right, Courtney. I believe that's correct.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
It's important to know so character witnesses, including family and
a pastor, testified in support of her during the monitoring,
while members of his family, the stepfather, expressed fear for
their own safety.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
That's scary.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Alleged allegedly that she did not have a strong relationship
perhaps with stepdad. Who knows what those dynamics are. Who
knows what the dynamics are on all sides. Now add
a young girl's lack of I don't know what are
your frontal lobes developed at that point? Is solitary confinement
The answer that also is probably not the best for

(52:34):
mental health, and certainly murdering your mom and stepdad isn't either.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
So this is a tough one. I think we really
got to follow it closely.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
We will in her.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
Like I said, her trial is scheduled to begin on
January fifth, of twenty twenty six, and we've got it
on the calendar, so we will definitely be following.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
Up on that one absolutely. I wanted to give you
guys an update. If you recall, there was a surrogacy story.
A Los Angeles couple has under FBI investigation for alleged
surrogacy fraud, for child endangerment, and for multiple other legal violations.

(53:13):
This was brought to bear when a woman named Halle Weaver,
who was a surrogate from Georgia, gave birth to a
son who was intended for the couple, and this woman,
Haley Weaver, contracted with Mark Surrogacy, a company the name
of a company to carry a child for the couple

(53:33):
in question, who purportedly misrepresented themselves as.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Just a typical Los Angeles family.

Speaker 5 (53:41):
But the people on trial the authorities discovered that this
couple had those twenty one children born to different surrogants
or through very suspicious circumstances, and this prompted an investigation
into child abuse, financial fraud, and potential surrogacy these scams.

(54:01):
So the couple, Sylvia who she is in her thirties,
and the man Guam. They are currently out on bond,
which is very surprising to me.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
To me, me too, that's very surprising to me.

Speaker 5 (54:19):
But they also have not yet been formally charged. So
the authorities are continuing with this investigation into the allegations
of abuse and neglect of all I mean, twenty one
very young children.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
It's a lot of children and the little uh one
of the infants was hospitalized for traumatic injuries. So like,
I'm having a hard time understanding why they're having a
hard time finding charges, Like I maybe they.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Can't go There may not also be any law on
this that has really been maybe you know, played out.
This might be the first of its kind. Also, like,
first of all, what a phacoctamus this is? I know
what is going on with these two? First and foremost, like,
have some beautiful family, you know, women are you know
giving you their children? That is such a intense thing,

(55:11):
and what an intense event only to find out that
this child that you thought you carried for the betterment
of another couple in their growing family. This is real
brutal stuff, sensitive stuff. And don't they have a crazy
age difference? And I misremembering and she's thirty eight, right,

(55:32):
Not that that's any indication, yeah, fun fact, I mean,
nothing to prove there in my head.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
The story in my head is that it's in my.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Head is that maybe because he's older, not that that's
old at all, but that he wants to, you know,
leave a seed, you know, behind one he gets. I
mean at some point, I don't know what is the
actor that we all love on? What's that I'm forgetting
his name? How many kids does he have? The host

(56:01):
is a mass singer?

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Oh Cannon?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
How many kids does Nick Cannon have?

Speaker 4 (56:06):
That's true?

Speaker 7 (56:06):
Yeah, that's true. Did you see the Netflix documentary about
the guy who was had like a thousand kids or
something crazy?

Speaker 11 (56:15):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Wasn't he the doctor though, the fertility doctor or something
inseminating everybody?

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (56:21):
No, he was. He was going to every like sperm bank,
if you will, in the world, and he was Yeah,
it was really uh, it was crazy. But anyway, but
there are people out there who want.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Just thank you.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
He only has twelve kids, so you know, but he
would say like he wants to have a team, right,
So wow, I mean Nick can afford them.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
I suppose.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
I don't know why I'm suddenly down a Nick Cannon path,
but I always found it interesting at the bare mid
I like that one on selling sunset what's.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Her name free?

Speaker 1 (56:51):
So you know, according to her, it all works out fine.
And you know, what the hell am I to say? Hey,
the kids are healthy, do you?

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (57:00):
These kids were not happy and healthy and no therese
kids were suffering, suffering.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:06):
At least fifteen of the children have been removed from
the home. They've been placed to protective custody, and six
others were located with family and friends, So it seems
like all of the children are someplace safe and sound.
And then, now, speaking of one of you, I believe
it was Stephanie, mentioned there might not even be sort

(57:26):
of legal groundwork for this well. Two additional surrogates were
reportedly carrying children for the couple at the time of
the suspicious circumstances came to light, and now there's further
legal complications on top of the FBI investigation.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Right, so they don't want to hand over their their
new unborn child to this mess of a situation.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
That would be twenty three kids now, right.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
We need a therapist to unpack this. This is this
is like.

Speaker 4 (57:57):
Some really weird like the boarding of you know, like
some people hoard cats because they think they're saving the cats, right,
and they horn cats.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
It's just like warning children or something.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
I don't know to what end? What was the identical here?
Was there financial gain to be had in any of this?

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Were they play?

Speaker 4 (58:12):
That's what we thought initially.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Remember we were looking at the LLC that they created this, right,
so has that weird LLC?

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Yeah, so that's.

Speaker 5 (58:20):
A front, is what it's being called for, a circus
case steam. But then the couple also faces separate civil
lawsuits that include claims of wage theft, wrongful termination, and
assault from a former employee. And that's regarding their real
estate company, Yado Investments. So this is a lot too

(58:42):
untangle is certainly we will keep you updated on it.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
It's really interesting.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
It's such a sensitive thing though, you know, people try
so hard they want to have children in fertility is
such a real thing. It is for so many and boy,
this is really playing on people's emotions. And you know,
the hopes of growing a family for someone is really
selfless to be a.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
Yeah, as somebody who had fertility, well who has fertility issues.
You know, I was pretty at one point desperate and
I might have done something like this, you know, not this,
but I mean that, you know you you want to
have children, and you know, I think I would have
been a really good mom and I really wanted to be.
And you know, I just I just feel like people

(59:25):
like this are you know, gross, and I just.

Speaker 7 (59:28):
Don't like it.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
I agree, by the way, you still can you be
a great mom?

Speaker 3 (59:32):
I would?

Speaker 1 (59:33):
You are a great mom to p I have two
beautiful nieces that I love very much, So that's all
I need. Maybe you can get maybe you can adopt
a child, and I can adopt a puppy and.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
So stuff.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Not to make light of something so serious, but Tyler
Robinson update.

Speaker 4 (59:59):
Yeah, we only got a couple of minutes. But do
we have a quick one?

Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
Mm?

Speaker 9 (01:00:03):
Hm?

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Well the type first of all, yeah, Court, do you
have the Tyler Robinson update?

Speaker 5 (01:00:08):
Well, Utah judge has ruled and that on October twenty
seventh that Tyler Robinson, the man who's charged with killing
conservative influencer Charlie Kirk, that he now can wear civilian
clothes during the pre trial hearings. So that's what it was,
back and forth between the lawyers. But on the one hand,

(01:00:30):
he can wear civilian clothes, however he must remain restrained.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Interesting.

Speaker 7 (01:00:36):
So I heard about that, and I've been dying to ask,
maybe the three of you might know, why would that
be so important to wear civilian clothes.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
Because you don't want to look guilty and convicted of something.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
You look like you're a jailbird.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
You know, you look as such you're already guilty of something.
Optics is such a big part of a court case.
And you know, we saw this with Diddy. He saw
this in the pike did massacre. That was such a
big thing. People coming in in shackles. You could hear
the shackles down the hallway.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
It has a.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
This is what Luigi Mangioni is upset about that he
was doing a purp walk when he hadn't been convicted
in you know, the the outfit and the shackles, and
you know that implies guilty and the optics can sometimes
be very real, so.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
It just gives the impression of guilt before conviction. And
most people will wear civilian clothes, you know, clothing pre trial.
But most people are also shackled, but they their hands
under the desk or you know whatnot.

Speaker 7 (01:01:38):
Something right right?

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Got it jumpsuit?

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
Yeah, it is reasonable, it is reasonable. Well, it's almost Halloween.
So this week we are sharing some of the scariest
true crime stories we've heard. Tonight, We've got one one
so frightening it influenced Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Keep it right here, Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
To true Crime tonight on iHeart Radio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong,
Body Move In and Taha, Adam and Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
So, you know, Halloween week is upon us.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Hopefully you've you've considered what your costume will be and
that you've gotten some candy for the kids. Don't be
the house that doesn't have candy or gives out looking candy.
Let's get ahead of this because body, you're raising your
hand right now, you.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
Have to candy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
You can't be that house that's like gad candy karma.

Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
Well, the kids. First of all, they don't go trick
or treating anymore. They do trunk or treating and they
go to they don't come to the house. And Yogi,
he's so crazy and he knocked at the door. He's
gonna lose his mind. So I'm literally the house with
all the lights off the house. Don't loock on her house.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
That's a little pot.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Outside or something with some candy in it for.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
You don't come. I'm telling the kids don't come.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
The neighborhood kids don't come to the houses.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
They don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Goodness well, because you always have the lights off and
no candy there. You've trained them, You've trained You're onto
something because I have rediscovered the miniature Reese's peanut butter cups,
so so oh, I.

Speaker 5 (01:03:22):
Forget how much I love a Nestley crunch until this
timing year.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
The text, Yes, I'm getting the big.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Speaking out all day.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
Hey days, there's gonna be the peanuts.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
I love those.

Speaker 7 (01:03:35):
Days.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Really, you like a may Day?

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
You know what? My favorite, though is Almond Joys. And
we just said that.

Speaker 7 (01:03:41):
I enjoy Courtney. I both disagree, right, Cilantro.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
It's very divisive of Halloween week. And again, if you
haven't had any costumes. You know, we can give you
some suggestions, or Frankie, I should take the suggestions. Not
always terrible, always historically horrible, but has going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
A big debut, done, done, done.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
I feel like we need some walk on music.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Is going to tell us a very scary Halloween tale
that he's been keeping to himself under under lock in
Halloween key.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Oh are you ready?

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Written read back from commercial? He was wearing a scary mask,
scary Hannibal Lecter mask, scary Taha.

Speaker 7 (01:04:22):
We all just to get everyone, get everyone in the
you know, in the spirit, in the mood. But okay,
so speaking, this is a true story, So this is
kind of it's really creepy and scary. But sit back, Okay,
I'm going to give you a little headline synopsis. First
of all, it's one of California's most chilling unsolved murders.
It's a real life cabin in the woods nightmare. On

(01:04:42):
April eleventh, nineteen eighty one, four people, three of them
were from the same family. They were killed inside of
Cabin twenty eight at the Ketty Resort, which is deep
in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. So I had to look
that up. That's in California. For those who don't know,
the scene was gruesome, multiple weapons buying and signs of rage.
Twelve year old Tina Sharp vanished that night. Her remains

(01:05:05):
wouldn't be found for three years miles away in another forest,
and decades later, the case remains open, remains open, and
the story of that Cabin twenty eight has become a legend,
part true but part ghost story. I know this one,
you do, Okay, Well, some people might know it because

(01:05:25):
there was a film that they based off of this
true case. There was a film from twenty seventeen called
the Cabin called Cabin twenty eight, and then there was
another one called The Strangers in Tights.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
That is the scariest movie. And that's how I know
this one is The Strangers. It's lived time and fantastic
in it. It's scary, really scary.

Speaker 7 (01:05:46):
Yeah, don't watch it alone. And maybe in the daytime
here was someone else. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
I don't know the ghost elements. So I'm I'm literally
sad for the story to.

Speaker 7 (01:05:55):
Hawky, Okay, all right, here we go. Let me tell
you so the Sharp family they had moved to Ketty California.
It was a quiet mountain town. It was like surrounded
by pine trees and old cabins. They were basically hoping
for a fresh start, really nice, you know this how
things would start off well. On the night of April eleventh,
nineteen eighty one, Sue Sharpened, her children, and a friend
were inside the cabin. And this is inside a cabin

(01:06:18):
twenty eighty at a resort. At some point during the night,
at least two intruders entered the cabin. No one outside
heard screams or a sign of a struggle. Well, the
next morning, their fourteen year old, the fourteen year old
Sheila sharp She came home from a sleepover and discovered
the horror inside her mother. Sue, her brother John, and

(01:06:38):
his friend Dana Wingate had all been beaten, stead and
tied with electrical cords and medical tape. So it's a
really horrific story. The cabin's phone cords were rip from
the walls, the lights were still on, but the killers
were gone. But in a nearby bedroom, three young boys,
two of son's sons, and a friend were found asleeppletely unharmed.

(01:07:01):
One knows, but no one knows why they were there
were spared like they.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Were in the house. They were in the cabin.

Speaker 7 (01:07:06):
In the same cabin, but their lives were spared. So
maybe whoever this person was took pity on children. But
we don't know the details of that because to this day,
the person behind this has not been caught. Well, twelve
year old Tina Sharp was missing, and despite an intensive
search of the woods, she was never found. Three years later,

(01:07:27):
there was like an anonymous man that called the Sheriff's
office and asked, I wonder if the remains found at
Camp eighteen belonged to Tina Sharp. That caller he was
never identified, but the remains were hers. So that weird
caller made that sort of call, they found the body.
I don't know why they couldn't trace back and figure

(01:07:49):
out who.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
That person was.

Speaker 7 (01:07:50):
But anyway, well that part.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Is nineteen eighty that's true.

Speaker 7 (01:07:54):
Very good point. Yeah, so to this day they still
don't know what happened. I'm going to kind of zip
along a little bit. But over the years, crucial evidence
went missing, a lot of the files were lost, the
statements were destroyed, and the investigation was sort of riddled
with a lot of gaps. So the mystery continued for years.
In twenty sixteen, they did find a hammer that matched

(01:08:17):
one of the missing ones from the cabin that was
founded in a nearby pool up nearby pond, and later
some DNA found from the binding tapes that reportedly it
matched a living suspect, but no arrests were made. So
we're just going to kind of move forward a little
bit to the two thousands. That area Keddy has become

(01:08:37):
a ghost town. Cabin twenty eight was demolished in twenty
twenty four, but people still say it feels cold and
unnerving when you're there, and there have been reports that
people have said you can hear footsteps, whispers, and children's
laughter in the woods where the cabin once stood, like
a lot of people actually hear weird.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
I think there's probably a lot of ghost hunters and
what not to go there.

Speaker 7 (01:09:01):
A lot of them go to that area, so it's
a popular one. So this this story, you know, stood
out to me when I first heard it. But it's
haunting and frightening. But as I mentioned, in twenty seventeen,
they made a film Having twenty eight and it was
direct was based directly on this and it was almost
shot scene for scene based on what happened, So that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Went out interesting that so there was nobody in the area.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Could it have been you know, some pretend maybe pretend
law enforcement that went to the door and was like knock, knock,
pretend police are here, And then you know that's why
the door was opened so easily, and you know, maybe
they were smart enough to clean up a little bit
but also leave it like a very scary scene that

(01:09:49):
would throw it off their tail.

Speaker 7 (01:09:51):
I got a good think of.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
That DNL they found. I didn't know about that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:55):
The d they found some tape.

Speaker 7 (01:09:58):
This was in June, so this is June of this.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
So this is really red.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
You have to get CC on it. NA Queen of
DNA that she's fine. She was, but so but did
they name who the suspect was?

Speaker 7 (01:10:14):
No, that's part of it. They said that they found
DNA evidence. The medical tape was found, but there's not.
It didn't match to a living suspect, so it really didn't.
It has not. Yeah, so it's reigniting the case. So
a lot of people are back into it because of
this recent DNA update. So again this week, say this

(01:10:34):
a lot. DNA is really bringing a lot of cold
cases to life again. So wait, this is one what
did I say something wrong?

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
Says there is a living suspect. Oh yeah, yeah, jus
breaking news the new DNA evidence found on medical tape
from the Kenny Cabin crime scene was reportedly matched to
a living suspect. Now this is June.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
You're still kind of sus it out.

Speaker 7 (01:11:00):
But they don't have they don't have a suspect in
anyone right now.

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
So I think we have a name, right, they name
the person right?

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Maybe?

Speaker 4 (01:11:11):
Oh you know what, They're probably going to do some
voice analysis too, to determine if the caller or remember
somebody called with the right right right, check for the
remains of Cavin eighteen the.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
Wheels turning body already.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
Yeah, some voice analysis to determine if the living suspect
is the caller.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
It's amazing to me that even from the seventies and
eighties or even the sixties, that they hold on to
all of this stuff, and when we see this pretty
often that suddenly there's just like this paper box and
it has like key information in it from a thousand
years ago. You know, hats off that law enforcements able
to go back that far in time.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Didn't they have, didn't they suspect the neighbors or something.

Speaker 7 (01:11:52):
At one point, You're right, there was something with the neighbors.
Their neighbors, Martin Smart and John I think it's Bobadie.
They became prime suspects. Smart later told a counselor he said,
I killed Sue and her daughter. But the confession weirdly
went nowhere, and neither man was charged. So again a
peculiar mystery and everything that took place with it. But

(01:12:13):
but you're right, good memorybody, you definitely know the story.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
And then the daughter that survived. The daughter that survived,
she was staying at a neighbor's home overnight, right, and
she comes home to this grizzly scene.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
This poor girl horrible. I've always thought about.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
What happened to her.

Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure, but telling you guys good.
A very good scary movie is Strangers. It came out
in two thousand and eight, I think two thousand and nine,
so it's from that era, you know of like teen
scary kind of scream and whatnot, So it has that
feel to it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
It is very scary.

Speaker 7 (01:12:50):
I might like to my list. I like a good
horror movie.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
But it's one of those scary movies that's like real like,
so it makes it ultra scary. It's not like it's
not like demons or ghosts or that. That's a real,
real people doing really bad things. So it makes it
like extra scary.

Speaker 7 (01:13:07):
Extra scary. I wouldn't what's your favorite scary movies since
we're talking scary movies.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
Oh, my gosh, probably The Ring. I'm so scared. Ring
scares one scary.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
Step.

Speaker 7 (01:13:20):
I want to hear you well.

Speaker 5 (01:13:21):
I actually was about to put Sam and Adam on
the spot that let's do.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
It feels fun in this moment.

Speaker 7 (01:13:26):
I know they have a good horror movie.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
Will I try?

Speaker 7 (01:13:28):
And okay, think about it. YouTube stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
We'll buy you some time. I'm not I'm not a
big scary movie person.

Speaker 10 (01:13:38):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
I don't know. They just freaked me out. But I
do like David Lynch a lot, the director do.

Speaker 6 (01:13:43):
I think those movies are pretty scary in their own way.
I like, uh like Lost Highway David, that one, it's
really good. There's a lot of like there's like the
camera just slowly turns into a dark corner and there's
just and then like no, you know, spoiler alert, But
like nothing really pops out at you or happens. You're

(01:14:04):
just looking into darkness a lot of the time, and
that's pretty freaking.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
That kind of stuff freaks me out.

Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
Yeah, it just does.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
And then it's also just very bizarre and.

Speaker 7 (01:14:14):
Right right, yeah, I went, now, what's your Sam?

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Sam?

Speaker 11 (01:14:19):
Probably The Shining probably my favorite, and I swear the
scariest movie I think is still the original Texas Chainsaw
Mask a real and I just remember when I was
first watching it, just like the end where that one
girl is just screaming, and then my parents walking like

(01:14:39):
were you watching and I'm like, I don't know, I'm
just waiting for.

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
All.

Speaker 7 (01:14:45):
Right, now you've had.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
There's a see. I saw so many way too young.

Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
I'm talking I'm five, I'm six, I'm seven years old.
And I actually became all of this on my sister Aaron,
who was eight year is older than I am, and
she she'd take care she you know, I was she
had to take care of me basically, just hold my
mom was at work. She was my guardian fun. Then
she would have fun. So we'd be watching freaking polter Geist.

(01:15:13):
I'm five years old. Cut to I'm maybe eight years old.
Her and her friend are bored, putting on no joking around,
panty hose on their face, and like.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
Holding a chasing me around the house. So I'm kind
of scared of everything.

Speaker 4 (01:15:27):
I used to do that to my brother.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Yeah you did, because you're older.

Speaker 4 (01:15:32):
I'm the oldest.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
I would so mean so many my hands.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
I would put fingernail polish on my hands and then
set them on fire and chase.

Speaker 7 (01:15:40):
Him on fire.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
He broke his collarbone.

Speaker 4 (01:15:45):
Because of me, because running away from you with my
hands I was. I tortured my poor brother. Oh literally,
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
My brother's tortured me too.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
I only have older brothers, and they would like take
me to scary movies totally freak me out at the
young age, imaginable, and then they would like put me
in a room and then one of them would like
go out in the backyard and like run by the
window at night like you're a d And then.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
The pantyhose and the head thing that was real.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
You know, just thinking about it right now makes me
kind of nauseous.

Speaker 7 (01:16:15):
You remember which movie they took you to that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Scharedule, Oh yeah, it was the same with Courtney and
I apparently lived in the same block because it was
you know, it was the poulterguy's.

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
Days all of us when we were little.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Was terrifying, like with the hands on the TV, but
also even the prompt Carol, all the you know, all
the Halloweens. Yeah, I love my you know my dear
jud Degree in the even recent Halloween.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Recommended if you haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
I like to go to a scary movie in the
theater with friends because then it seems a little more
ridiculous and people can.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Like scream agal and it seemed not so scary.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
I could never watch it by myself, or I don't
even like the idea of watching it with someone on
the television in a dark house.

Speaker 4 (01:16:59):
I'll never go to sleep.

Speaker 7 (01:17:01):
Mine is the Exorcist to this.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
Oh oh it's horrible. I saw that that was a scary.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Oh in Silence of the Lambs.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
I don't know if that falls into the scary movie category.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
But nothing, I think we work and try.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
That changed my DNA, Like there was something so scary
about that that I don't even like discussing it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
That's so scary I find it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Yeah, we want to hear your tips too, if you
have any any stories to share eight eight eight three
one crime.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
Yeah, definitely love it. I saw I saw Exorcise when
I was a little It traumatized me for the rest
of my life. Stick stick around. We've got more to
dig into. Talk back Tuesday tomorrow, but we've got a
sneak peek coming up next. Keep it right here, a
true friend tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been
talking true crime all the time. I'm staff here with
Courtney and body Ta. You did a fantastic job. A
little applause from laws audience and say it loud to
the back of the room. Question, but you told a
very scary story and to ask you, yes, I mean

(01:18:18):
and again listen, we want to go to some walk backs.
But I'm curious, Tah, do you have a Halloween costume
in mind?

Speaker 7 (01:18:24):
Funny you should ask, because even though I showed you
that mask today, each day I'm going to show you
one of my costumes that I've worn through the past,
and I'm going to lead up to the one I'm
going to wear Stopriday night, Halloweener.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
You love it, I.

Speaker 7 (01:18:37):
Mean, I also live in West Hollywood, so we're kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):
Don't you know how to do it correctly. You're not
dressed like I'm going to be a fifties girl and
wear I'm a hobo. Yes, so terrible.

Speaker 7 (01:18:51):
So I'm going to leave that for you to judge
and tell me what you think of my costume that
I'm going to wear.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
So I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Well. I did not like the mask.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
I thought it was very scary and very startling and
covering your perfect face seeing unnecessary.

Speaker 7 (01:19:05):
So let that smile going to get scary each night.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
So I loved it.

Speaker 5 (01:19:10):
If you guys, remember I told you a while ago,
my mom is a funny quote funny trick put the
Hannibal Lecter being on the front of Time magazine on
my bed.

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
So that's when I pulled back the covers. I saw
annimal elector face in my bed and were in the
best way. I wouldn't for the world.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
But boy, what's the benefit of having a younger sister
if you can't portray get them up?

Speaker 4 (01:19:37):
The benefit of being the older sister for me was
the torture my brother.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
You know, I haven't had that luxury.

Speaker 5 (01:19:42):
If you lit your fingernails on fire, your fingers with
a fingernail polish remover, because it's flammable.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Wait, don't that is not a tip that we should
be sharing. Tempted to like try that on my own
and you know what would happen? That would wow?

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
Like literally did you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
Ever get an injury from that?

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
Oh, but my brother did.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
Running away from me.

Speaker 7 (01:20:06):
I'm so jealous of this because I'm an only child
and I can't imagine how much fun it sounds like
a fun time.

Speaker 4 (01:20:12):
That we were on Ferrel. We were literally Ferreal's.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
Gen x right, like my mom worked.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
I was babysitting my brother, like six years old, and so,
oh the worst things?

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
Do you guys?

Speaker 4 (01:20:26):
Can we talk about this real quick?

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
Of course?

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
I am god, I'm such a bad sister, Eric, I'm
so sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
Back in the day, we had.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
The rotary phones right well, back in the day in Michigan,
at least in Detroit, you could make your phone ring
by calling your number and hanging up twice with on
the dial, So you would dial your number, hang up twice,
and then your phone would ring. So I'm babysitting my brother,
I'm like, I don't know, I think I'm six or seven.
My mom is at work, and I'm like, I'm gonna

(01:20:56):
play a trick on my brother. So I made the
phone ring, I answer it. Hello, Oh oh my gosh, okay,
thank you, and I hang up right and my propose
what's wrong?

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
My brothers like, okay, what's wrong? What happened?

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
And I hang out Mom is dead? Oh my gosh,
and he just starts crying. My poor brother, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
So happy to see her when she wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:21:26):
So a little surprised by my poor brother is crying
and hysterics. And I'm like, you know, thinking that he
wasn't gonna believe me. I don't know what, dude the worst?
So my mom comes home obviously she was a waitress
at a truck stop. Got yer. She comes home and.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
He's like, Deana told me dead, And I'm like he's lying, and.

Speaker 4 (01:21:52):
I, oh, Eric, I'm so work out for Eric?

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
Is Eric?

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
Yeah, can you call us?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
We're curious what we're doing?

Speaker 6 (01:22:05):
Yea?

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
What is it called safety checket?

Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
Oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
But that's probably why I don't love Halloween.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
I feel like I was the brunt of the I
was a brunt of a lot of scams and scandals
and tricks, and you know, like I still get scared
when I turn around the corner. Sometimes, you know, if
I know, even if I don't know, I'm an easy
one to make.

Speaker 7 (01:22:28):
I think it's fun that that's the fun of it.
Like this, I like to just get a little scared
and then later laugh at it. I mean, in the moment, yeah,
your heart starts.

Speaker 4 (01:22:36):
EAT's like you feel alive. Your heart is saying like
you're anticipating something, and then okay, okay, I'm good.

Speaker 9 (01:22:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
That's why I can't scream.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
I had I had throat surgery a thousand years ago,
and I was like nineteen, and I my vocal cords.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
I can't scream.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
So for me, if someone like tries to make me
go be scared, like ah, it's so fine.

Speaker 7 (01:22:59):
It's not scream.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (01:23:03):
Like Joseph Coter, It's like h.

Speaker 7 (01:23:08):
And I'm embarrassed to say that. I'm on the flip side,
like I scream like a teenage girl when I scream
at the top of my lugs.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
So it's a real gift. My scream is so loud.

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
When I went uh skydiving, which happened one time, the
guy said he's like some people can be heard from
the ground as we jump out of the mine, and
I think you are one of them. My stream is loud.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
It takes very impossible even to imagine. Your scream is
so loud.

Speaker 3 (01:23:36):
It's so skydiving.

Speaker 12 (01:23:38):
Yeah, something scary, nothing scarier than weird.

Speaker 4 (01:23:52):
Do you guys go to Do you guys go to
haunted houses?

Speaker 3 (01:23:55):
Oh? Yeah, I hate love it?

Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
You do love it? Courtney? Do you go?

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
Yes? Yes, And I'm a very.

Speaker 4 (01:24:04):
Love to go to not scary farm.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
They jump at you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
It's like people scaring you.

Speaker 7 (01:24:13):
Queen Mary joke, what's Queen Mary?

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
Oh my god, Mary, Oh my god Mary.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
The Haunted Ship.

Speaker 7 (01:24:21):
Oh, I didn't know they made it haunted. Yeah, I
didn't know. They turned it into a Haunted Events.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
Oh yeah, it's a big deal.

Speaker 5 (01:24:28):
No, you should really look into it. It's a big
It's a Hollywood production. It's so so scary, it is
so scary.

Speaker 8 (01:24:38):
Another company was spond you know speaking Yeah, yeah, I sponsors, right,
we need to we need to go back and do
a lab.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
And that's like should be sponsoring us with our true
crime and chill.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
That's for sure. I want some under cream. I'll talk
about it every day, just like.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
In my neighborhood where I grew up. There was a cemetery,
a little a small, ancient, little cemetery. It was a
native of American, very small. Some of the headstones didn't
even have names on it. Scary just thinking about it.
And then my brothers used to tell the story. I
don't know if this is true.

Speaker 8 (01:25:10):
I have to fact check, but it stuck with me
and I feel it to be true that there was
a ghost from the cemetery named Mary, and they would
go to Mary's grave, probably in high school, like they
would go to Mary's grave and it was like this infamous,
scary place because apparently Mary haunts it because somebody captured

(01:25:31):
her and they put her in a noose and then
she was put on a block of ice.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
Mary.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
That's a horrible taunting.

Speaker 7 (01:25:43):
Thought, right, that's awful.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
Until I got for Halloween.

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
So yeah, it set into it. I like the.

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
Candidate, yea terrible yeah, no, wonder you're.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
Scared of I think that's comments of Richard. I think.

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
This might have been my brothers.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
But and by the way, anybody from stage to myigh school,
if this is an accurate story, please let us please
call Mary's grave.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
Though I like it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:10):
Yeah, well, let's try to let's try to reset here.
This is true Crime tonight on nine Heart Radio. We're
talking true crime all the time. Give us a call
eighty eight thirty one Crime or leave us a talk back.
Let's do a talk back right now. A.

Speaker 13 (01:26:22):
Hi, this is Julie again. I was just listening to
the latest episode of the Idaho Massacre, the story of
Steven and Olivia, and it brought me such joy that
something so good came.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
Out of what happened.

Speaker 13 (01:26:36):
However, Stephen mentioned that his sisters have lost friends because
the friend's parents don't want them to associate with his
sisters because of everything had happened.

Speaker 3 (01:26:46):
And that made me profoundly sad.

Speaker 13 (01:26:48):
I think that's really terrible.

Speaker 7 (01:26:49):
What are your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Yeah, really really sad.

Speaker 4 (01:26:53):
We Yeah, the ripple effect, right, not only did they
lose their sisters, you know, the Consales family has been
really outspoken, right, They've kind of been the public face
for this horrible crime. You know, she's talking about the
victims of the Idaho for the student murderers, Kaylee Gonsalves,
Madison Mogan, Sana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. They were murdered

(01:27:16):
by PhD student in Washington Brian Coberger, who is now
serving four consecutive life sentences in the state of Idaho.
Just a quick recap for those who aren't familiar, and
the Gonsalvest family. You know, there's four families that are affected.
The Gonsalvest family have been the most outspoken, right, wouldn't

(01:27:37):
you guys say? They've kind of been the public face
of this. And I can see, you know, they've got
you know, uh, they have five kids. Kaylee was like
the middle and you know, she's got two younger sisters
that you know, are still in high school and now
just going off to college for the first So I
can see parents of those two young girls their friends

(01:28:00):
being like, you know what, I don't really want you
over there because like news cameras are there, and I mean,
you know, this was a massive, massive crime, and you know,
these poor, poor, all these families were just constiling.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
Yeah, just day after day.

Speaker 4 (01:28:17):
You know, we talk about the ripple effect.

Speaker 3 (01:28:18):
I never even thought about that, the using friends.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
It was a very profound part of that interview. Also,
you know, we've talked about this on the documentary we made,
The Idaho Student Murders. Please check it out on Peacock
If you haven't had a chance to.

Speaker 3 (01:28:34):
That was sort of what brought these two together.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
So Olivia, isn't that crazy, you know, Gonzo offense, you
will match maker refer to it. I'd like to say
I take full credit, but I think director Catherine Park
it's the credit, and Alison Finston, who were as podcast,
she's really the matchmaker initially. But yeah, the shoot brought
them together. He was, you know, he was so sad, broken,

(01:29:01):
and you know you could kind of feel it when
you even watch the dock. You know, it was still
so so raw. So then to hear him now at
the at the other side of it, you never really
get to the other side of it. But you know,
with Olivia, you know they have now fallen in love
and are getting married. For anyone who doesn't know she

(01:29:21):
was reporting on the case. In fact, Kayleie Gonzalvez is
had befriended her on Facebook and only after the murders
did she really realize that. So in a way, it's
like Kayleie Gonzalvez, the victim kind of brought her brother
and this journalist who was covering the case, who Kaylee

(01:29:42):
had also friended on social media. It seems sort of
is it possible that there's something divinely guided about their
relationship not to put too much pressure on it, right,
you know, even just hearing their voices though now like
he's so much lighter and I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:30:01):
Love.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
Love will conquer many things, you know, and we've said
it before. Even in the darkest times, you know, light
things can break through, right, even in the crack.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
I like to call it where light comes through.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
I like to call it Kaylee's gift. Yes, Like it's
kind of like forgiven as I think about it. I know, yeah,
I mean, you know, there was a lot of controversy
around it. Yeah, but I like to call it Kaylee's gift, like,
you know, like it's okay, gone, so move you know,
I want you to move on and I want you
to be happy, and this is my gift to you.
I kind of that's how I that's how I prefer

(01:30:34):
to look at it, rather than like a cynical eye, right,
I prefer to be like, this is Kaylee's gift.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
I think it's you wanted to kind of end the
documentary with them in that new development, but then it
was like, oh, we don't want to put too much
pressure on a relationship, you know. So I mean, look,
they're going to plan a wedding after you know, a
lot of tough years and you know, the Gonzalvez family,
you know, may they have a very merry wedding and
much to sell break and then yeah, to your point,

(01:31:01):
he did make that mention that the younger sisters are
getting blown off and stuff. And again the ripple effect,
and we hear this on you know, even the assail
in side, on Brian Coburger's side, you know, the family
is also they take such a hit, you know, and
another version of sadness continues because you're.

Speaker 4 (01:31:20):
Reef is compounded now right, You've just lost your beloved
sister in this like horrific crime. Well two sisters really
because Maddie too. They consider Maddie Madison Mogan. You know,
they were sister friends, you know, and so they've lost
their sisters and now their friends are kind of like
backing away slowly, right wow. And they're young in high.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
School and that's when you really need the support. That's
what you really want to fit in. You want to
be loved the most and well most backup.

Speaker 4 (01:31:50):
Grief is is awful. It comes in waves too, and
it can be overpowering. And I mean I've only experienced
grief a couple of times in my life, and I
had the iFIT of being an adult, you know, not
I was never a teenager, you know, you know how
emotional teenagers are, right, So I just I just can't
imagine having grief on top of it, you know, and

(01:32:13):
having to go to high school and see people and
that you care about love maybe not being able to
be your friend anymore. And that's just really really really sad.
And this ripple effect is horrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
Yeah, I know you think about it too, even for
young kids, you know. You know, listen, those are that's
a time when you need girlfriends and friends the very most.
And sometimes, you know, somebody at that age goes through
something so traumatic, maybe their friend group feels they can't
relate to the trauma they've experienced, right, So it's a
tough one.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
But you know what would they say?

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
Grief is love with nowhere to go, you know, so
you know, the heavier the heart, the more love is there.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
So that's beautiful.

Speaker 7 (01:32:54):
I've never heard that, but I like that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
Which I could give credit to the proper person where
I heard it. It's an original thought, but I find it,
you know, comforting, right, So and listen, you know, just
to wrap up, you know, to Jamaica, We're thinking about you,
we're wishing for you overnight, and we'll be sending you
our prayers throughout the night. More more to come tomorrow,

(01:33:18):
and remember talk back tuesdays tomorrow, everyone, so leave those talkbacks.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
You heard the caller.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
We can't wait to hear more from you and everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:33:27):
Please stay safe out there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Thank you for being with us tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:33:31):
We love you. Good night,

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