The Haunting Toy Box Killer, Ellen Greenberg Theories, and Unpacking ‘Phroggers’

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcomes True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We'll retalk true crime
all the time. It is Tuesday, it is October twenty eighth,
and we have a stacked night of talkbacks. Thank you
guys very much. Your outreach has been amazing. I'm Courtney
Armstrong here as always with my buddy body move in
Crime Analyst extraordinaire. It's very exciting in the studio in

(00:43):
this moment. Adam and Hotbud activity. I know, I kind
of like it. Adam and Sam are working in the county.
There's tech issues, there's microphone cords. We've got this screwdrivers out. Yeah,
it's a little bit of mayhem, but the perfect kind
for a talkback Tuesday. All that said, Stephanie will be
joining us shortly, but tonight we are going to be

(01:06):
listening to all your theories about the alleged suicide of
twenty seven year old Philadelphia teacher Ellen Greenberg. We also
are going to be discussing how the Internet has become
such a hotbed of criminal activity, and you guys have
been also sharing your tips on how you are protecting
your kids. Keep those coming, by the way, keep those corumming. Yeah,

(01:26):
and later, anyone who listened last night knows that Taha
told a really spooky story. And later tonight we're going
to be discussing the infamous poy box killer David Parker
Ray for now actually or totally tring, We're going to
go right into our first.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Talk back all thatcha.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
This is from Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I just heard you talk out the.

Speaker 5 (01:52):
Uh be good or be good at it?

Speaker 6 (01:55):
And Eminem, So that's actually from an Eminem and Little
Wayne Nong, which is a version of the hat away
every least nineties a song what is Love? I love
that song and I love your show.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Bye she does?

Speaker 7 (02:15):
I love listen. I want to be a chica like.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Whenever I hear that, it makes me.

Speaker 7 (02:20):
We have another caller that says that, and I love
every time she calls because she's always like, hey chicas,
and she just did it too.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I love it right, It's cute.

Speaker 7 (02:27):
I did you did you know? That was from Eminem song?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
I had no idea but in this so in this
one second. I just did a quick Google, as it were,
and you are one hundred percent white, one hundred percent right.
It's a song from twenty ten. So I'm I'm happy
to be on the same page with Eminem. I suppose yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (02:48):
Lit Wayne too.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
I mean, you can't go there.

Speaker 7 (02:51):
I can't go wrong with a little Wayne and Emin
m thank you so much for that talk back. We
definitely appreciate Chica and Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
I mean, I love Atlanta. Oh my god, I just.

Speaker 7 (03:00):
Went there, did you.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
I did.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, my family's down there and I always eat too
much when I'm there. But is that where you're from?
Actually originally from New York, but then the family, a
lot of family moved to the Atlanta area so to
get away from the race of New York, which now
Atlanta has actually become.

Speaker 7 (03:17):
But it's become like the New York of the south, right,
like it's kind of the place to be Lanta.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
I think their traffic might be worse than La.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
It's it's okay bad their trap I will say this.
Their traffic is pretty bad. And I lived there for
six months, which is not forever, but a long enough time.
The traffic is not good. It still does not touch
Los Angeles. But yeah, I did find my love for
pimento cheese in Atlanta.

Speaker 7 (03:46):
Oh my god, I love pimento cheese on a good cracker.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh my god, that is good.

Speaker 7 (03:51):
Yea, even like the craft like the like the cheap
pimento cheese, you know, like in the little jar.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, I cannot find it.

Speaker 7 (03:59):
Anywhere where I am. I was craving it like three
months ago. You cannot find it. They don't Now it's
beer cheese. It's not the our pub cheese. It's not
the same.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Is it a holiday related?

Speaker 7 (04:12):
I used to buy it all the time. My mom
was like addicted to it.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, listen, if you know where to widely find pamenta,
she just give us a call. We're at eighty eight
three to one crime and now we're going to hit
another talk back.

Speaker 8 (04:25):
I have two thoughts about Ellen Greenberg. One, it's just
a clarification from this Sunday Night episode saying that the
doc is on Netflix. Just to clarify it's on Hulu
for anybody who is looking for it. Additionally, I thought
I had read a long time ago when they first

(04:46):
reported on Ellen Greenberg that she was going to move
in with her parents after this semester to solve some
of her anxiety.

Speaker 7 (04:55):
Yeah, you know, so she Josh Greenberg, who's Ellen's father,
did report to the Pennsylvania newspaper that Ellen had all
of a sudden become quote unquote very anxious and said
that she wanted to come home. He didn't clarify at

(05:15):
least that as far as I know, like move in
with her parents. But they lived in Harrisburg, and it's
like an hour and like forty five minutes away from Philadelphia.
So it's a it's like a two hour drive, let's say,
with traffic and maybe more, maybe less, But I don't
live there, but that's my understanding. It's about a two
hour drive and so it's still quite a ways. And

(05:36):
she had wanted to go she wanted to move back home.
I don't know if that means in with her parents
or you know, move back to like kind of like
a smaller town with Sam. But she had become she
had become very anxious. It was suggested that she go
talk to somebody, and she did, and she got better

(06:00):
after talking to somebody. But she had been experiencing some
severe anxiety. Yeah, but she went on Klana Pin I
think one.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Of those one of those anxiety.

Speaker 7 (06:12):
Yeah, and it apparently supposedly very much helped. But yeah,
Josh Greenberg did say that she had mentioned that she
wanted to come home.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Now.

Speaker 7 (06:21):
I don't know if she was talking to Sam about this,
you know, I personally don't know. I don't know if
she was like pressuring him, like, hey, let's move to
Harrisburg when we get married, raise a family in a
smaller town. I don't know if that caused any tension
between them. I truly don't know. I'm just kind of talking.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Right, or if she was suggesting to move away from
where she was to be away from Sam.

Speaker 7 (06:45):
Maybe, I mean possibly, but that nothing like that that
I know of.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
No. Yeah, again, it's another mystery that adds to the
mix of anything that seems unusual and makes everything.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, there's a lot of hazy layers in this one.
I feel like, and I think all of the potentials
you guys just said are just that, they are all
reasonable potentials. And thank you for clarifying that it is
Hulu for anyone who wants to see it. Shall we
get another top bet?

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, let's do.

Speaker 5 (07:18):
It, Hi, guys, it's cricket in Connecticut, pulling about Ellen Greenberg,
and I'm trying to figure out what the benefit where
endgame would be for the medical examiner or the corner
or the police department to rule it as a suicide
rather than a homicide, even though it seems pretty ludicrous

(07:39):
to expect that.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Somebody could stab themselves in the.

Speaker 9 (07:42):
Back, in the back of the head and all of that.

Speaker 10 (07:45):
I don't understand.

Speaker 7 (07:47):
Yeah, you and me both. So yeah, there's a couple
of different benefits, right guys. Like one would be and
it's I don't think this is it. But crime statistics, right,
murders in a neighborhood are never good for anyone, right,
your property values, the crime statistics. You know, the DA
is not going to do in a good job, the

(08:08):
sheriff's not doing a good job, et cetera, et cetera.
The mayor sucks. You know. Crime statistics are one thing.
But I don't think that's that's at play here. Another
reason would be.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
They made a.

Speaker 7 (08:20):
Mistake, right they they they made a mistake. They first
initially ruled it, you know, a suicide, and then they
cleaned up. They cleaned up, And I think that's the
big part, don't you think Courtney like it's because they
cleaned up. And then and then it gets out that
you know, all these injuries are on our back, and

(08:42):
they're like, okay, this is a homicide and this is
happening basically during her funeral when they're sitting shiva, and okay,
well now it's a homicide. But guess what, it's too late.
They cleaned up, so there's.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
No crime scene for anyone to inspect.

Speaker 7 (08:58):
And these are just right, and these aren't just you know,
like you know, the Annie's maids. These are crime scene cleanups.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Right.

Speaker 7 (09:06):
There's they're very professional in what they do and so
there's no crime scene not to investigate. So what's the benefit.
The benefit is they get to cover their mistakes. Yeah,
I think that would be the number one thing. And
if I can't imagine how her parents must feel, but

(09:29):
that's putting myself as much as I can in their shoes.
If the city of Philadelphia just said, hey, we messed
up and we don't know what to do, I think
that would go a long way.

Speaker 11 (09:41):
Yeah, I think I would respect them more than trying
to cover this up.

Speaker 7 (09:45):
But that's going to cost a lot of money, because
now they're going to be in civil suits for.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
All of that.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Exactly, they'd be sued for libel for doing that.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
And yeah, understandably, you brought up something that I didn't
know about until the documentary. I didn't realize they were
specific teams of crime scene cleanups. Like, I guess it's
such an obvious thing after I you know, look at that,
But I'm like, I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, that usually cooked.

Speaker 7 (10:11):
The city doesn't pay for that.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Oh interesting, did I didn't know that either?

Speaker 7 (10:17):
Like if if say, you, you and I are roommates
to hu, right, we're living together, and I something happens
to me. If you want to stay living there, you
have to you have to pay to get a cleaned up.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Oh that's interesting. I didn't even know that. Well, yeah,
I think luckily I've not been in any situations where
that's been required.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
So Sunshine Cleaning, I don't know if you guys remember
that movie. It was Amy Adams, Emily Blunt and Alan Arkin,
and that was about starting a biohazard cleanup business.

Speaker 7 (10:50):
Oh really, I never seen I have to look at that.
But yeah, it's a business. It's a yeah, it's a
very booming business.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
I know.

Speaker 7 (11:00):
I know.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, this is true Crime. Tonight. We're on iHeartRadio. It
is talk Back Tuesday, and we are knee deep in
Ellen Greenberg talkbacks. We want to hear from you. Give
us a call. We are open to any and all topics.
Eighty eight through one crime and let's hit another talk back.

Speaker 10 (11:21):
Hi, friends, my name is Franny and I'm calling from
just outside of Philadelphia. I'm calling her a comment about
the Ellen Greenberg too. I live about ten minutes from
where she was killed, and I remember when it happened
that I was thinking that the boyfriend was somehow involved.
And after watching the documentary and then hearing you guys
to stuffed it the other night, the building manager said

(11:43):
something like, if you plam that door hard enough that
the last would engage, and that really solidified it for me.
Fancy behavior was kind of weird that day. He was
spending all those text messages one after another. He was
calling it a suicide on the nine to one one call,
and then his lawyer uncle came to collect the personal
effects and all her electronics. Personally, I think that he

(12:04):
killed her sometime that afternoon, and then he went to
the gym to give himself an alibi. I mean it's
only his word saying that Ellen was alive when he
left his apartment, and in the documentary, he really wanted
that concierge to come up with him to the apartment
so that he wouldn't find the body alone, but the
concierge wasn't allowed.

Speaker 7 (12:22):
Me to death.

Speaker 10 (12:22):
I personally think that Sam was planning the idea of
suicide right from the start. He called her the suicide
on the nine to one one call, and I'm guessing
that his uncle is probably a prominent lawyer here in
the city and probably knows a few people, and that's
how it got changed from homicide to suicide. I was
thinking that it's possible that maybe Sam was cheating on
Ellen or something and he had been gaslighting her about it,

(12:45):
which was causing her anxiety to get worse. You know,
maybe he wanted to break things up with her or something.
Who knows.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Wow, Franny really broke it all down.

Speaker 7 (12:57):
You know, it's hard to argue with It's hard to
argue with this that this nine one one calls in particular,
in my opinion, it's so odd and I and I
and I always try to listen to these types of
things with some kind of like open mind, right, like
not judging. How would I react if there was trauma?

(13:18):
I have no idea how I would react, you know,
if I found somebody, you know, I try to listen
to these things with you know, an open mind and
a lot of like grace to the person. And I'm
just not feeling it.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I'm not.

Speaker 7 (13:32):
I'm just not. It was it was very sus to me.
I'm not saying that he did it, like he's responsible
or whatever, but it was pretty sus to me. In particular,
he said, immediately Ella, she stabbed herself, how would he
know that? Okay, first of all, how would he know that?

(13:54):
Because he doesn't even see the knife at first, according
to Right, and then he's like, I'm gonna on zipper
hoodie and he's like, oh I can't. Oh the knife
is sticking.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Out of her chester.

Speaker 7 (14:07):
It's just very weird to me. And on top of that,
the text messages Ranni Menson mentioned it's very weird the
way he's talking to her. He's like, where are you
and then like exclamation just and then like two forty
five seconds later, you you don't know what's going to
happen or it's just very very odd it's a very

(14:30):
odd text.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
String it is, but without the context of what all
of the rest that may have been the way that
he communicated all the time, and you know, called and
then called right back. He might have been that kind
of communicator. And I always, like you said, give grace
to nine on one calls, and I actually give such

(14:52):
a wide berth because you just never know what does
it seem logically very suspect that he didn't see the
knife that was sticking out of her chest. Yes, and
maybe his hand was fixated on the blood in her
hand or do you know what I mean? You never
know what can happen, but all your points are good.
And that the taking out of all of her electronics

(15:15):
by the uncle, I gotta say that sits a little
uneasy to me because I don't think uncle Uncle was
you know, he's not in a state of trauma. Devil's
advocate to that though he is an attorney and wants
I guess a clean slate. I don't know.

Speaker 7 (15:30):
But but why Okay, here's the thing though, Oh.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
My god, the stick around. We have talkbacks galore, we
have kids, we have internet safety, we have your questions.
We have a really scary story for Halloween, and we
have more of your talkbacks. Keep it here a true
Crime Tonight we were talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 7 (16:03):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we
talk true crime all the time. If you're hearing my
voice doing the intro, you know something's wrong. Okay, Steph
regredibly will not be joining us tonight, so it's just
us Booberries, booo, Court and Body and we're going to
be ranging wrangling in Taha, Sam and Adam, and later

(16:23):
in the show we're going to be talking about Court
is going to tell us a very spooky story about
the infamous toy box killer David Parker Ray and you're
going to want to stay around for this. Not a
lot of people talk about this and it's terrifying, literally terrifying.
And it's talked that Tuesday. So it's it's your night.
Let's let's roll through some talk backs.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
Hit us up Hi team.

Speaker 9 (16:44):
This is Alicia from at Lenna again. I have a suggestion.
You guys talked about unpacking and packing suitcases on my body.
I have to pack my out of my suitcase. There's
no way I'm living out of.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Them, right.

Speaker 9 (16:58):
But here's a's it on a recent crew, I used
compression bags and put those in being drawers. No, that's
a suggestion. Have a great one team, and.

Speaker 7 (17:10):
I love those person bags, But how do you get
them to work when you're traveling without a vacuum. Don't
you need to vacuum them the air out of them?

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well? I have what I have this I guess contraption
and it was actually from Stephanie. Okay, backing up, we
were on a work trip and you know you have
the handle that pulls out of your bag. Yeah, well
it got stuck open and I was on a plane
and that thing would not go down, So try fitting

(17:38):
that in an overhead. Anyway, my birthday was just after
that and Stephanie got me the most killer suitcase and
in it it has it's like compression bags, but even better.
It's almost like picture what you would put your shoes
in a hanging thing, but then you just pull on

(17:58):
the sides these straps and it just kind of sucks
the air out. No vacuum needed. Then when you get
where you are, it's all folded and it comes out
and I just hang that in the hotel. Okay, but
that's wonderful.

Speaker 7 (18:11):
But we're talking about unpacking your suitcase and drawers and
stuff like in compression bags, that this is something you
hang up in your closet that you that you're talking about, right, Well.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yes, but it's all it's for travel. It goes. The
entire suitcase fits into this, and it's just it's another
way you can do it instead of the compression bag.

Speaker 7 (18:33):
The interest the issue the issue is, and I think
for the talkback person too, is that I have to
like take my socks and my underweares and my bras
and whatnot and put them in the drawer, and then
I have to hang up my t shirts and then
I have to hang up, you know, my dress and
put my shoes in the closet and whatnot. And we
were not you can't put them in the drawers. Now
apparently that's a bad no, no, Like there's all kinds
of bugs and bacteria in these drawers apparently, So these

(18:56):
compression bags protect your items and these drawers, Like you're
under wears, your socks and your shoes whatever you're putting
in the drawers from these cooters.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right, so you can almost put the whole compression bag
in this.

Speaker 7 (19:08):
And now I just don't know how I would love
for you to call back and let us know. Likely
let's talk back. I would love for you to go
back on this snow how you recompress it to put
it back in your suitcase.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Okay, that's a great question. Yeahs travel tips, I love it.

Speaker 7 (19:23):
There must be like a little portable kind of situation
that you can I.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Think, Yeah, I feel like I've seen something like that,
or where you could push down in the air kind
of pushes out. Maybe there might be some some easier.

Speaker 7 (19:36):
I love the travel tips because I love me to travel.
But don't you I really do say I do. But yeah,
let's hear another talkback.

Speaker 12 (19:45):
Hey guys, my name is Brittany and I live in
the Philippines fighting human trafficking. And you're talking about that
Netflix documentary where the mom was bullying the daughter. And here,
when we do a rescue from an online exploitation and
abusive children just like making videos and selling it and
abusing children online, about seventy percent of the time it's

(20:07):
the mom is the perpetrator.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
So that is really heartbreaking.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
When when your mom's doing.

Speaker 7 (20:13):
It, I think she's called before, I think she's and
this is a different one. Yeah, it's a different one.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
So when she had called before and what valiant work
you do, so keep doing it and thank you Brittany
for all that you do. Yeah, if I call last time,
it was she was commenting because Belle shook from equine guidance.
The horse therapy had been on and she was talking
about using sort of scuba therapy. Right, But it was

(20:42):
very interesting what Brittany. I'm glad she called back because
that was a crazy stat on mothers being the perpetrator
that often.

Speaker 7 (20:50):
That's I didn't I would I did never guess that.
I would never have guessed that. I mean, I would
expect maybe fathers.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
But the same I thought the same, maybe the fun but.

Speaker 7 (21:00):
Yeah, wow, that's very interesting. Keep those talkbacks coming, Brittany,
because those are that's really valuable information that I would
never have known.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
You know. I'm wondering if with these stalking it almost
goes into like the the poison realm, as in what
I think Joseph Scott Morgan and a few other experts
have said are almost coward crimes. You're not your hands
aren't dirty, but you're doing real dirty work and it's
over time. Anyway, I just wonder if there's sort of

(21:30):
a similar psychology that crosses over.

Speaker 7 (21:34):
I bet you there is.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
I bet you.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Just like it's slow torture physically or mentally and emotionally.

Speaker 7 (21:41):
Hands off, right, it's very hands off and you get
to watch it happen, which is also interesting psychology wise.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
That's good.

Speaker 7 (21:50):
That's a good observation. I think, Courtney, thank you.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
I like that.

Speaker 7 (21:54):
Well, I don't like that, but I I like the.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Like the stalking keeping coming from the Philippines. Bridge fighting,
human trafficking, no joking around. That's wonderful. What's up next, guys?

Speaker 10 (22:07):
Yeah, good morning.

Speaker 13 (22:08):
This is Lee from Ontario, Canada. I'm pitching up on
the Morning podcast listening to Roeblocks under.

Speaker 14 (22:15):
Fire and I just wanted to chime in.

Speaker 7 (22:18):
So it is.

Speaker 10 (22:19):
It is a program.

Speaker 13 (22:20):
We don't allow our kids to play. We have three
kids to love to gain and what I've always said
to them is to throw Mommy.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Under the bus.

Speaker 13 (22:28):
I'm the mean mom. I restrict their gaming time and
we do apply the moderation within the games we're allowed
to play, which right now is just Minecraft and Fortnite.
But yeah, I've always said, hey, just tell your friends
that I'm a mean mom.

Speaker 15 (22:48):
And I won't let you do it.

Speaker 13 (22:50):
Thanks so much, really enjoying the show.

Speaker 7 (22:53):
Yeah, advice, I'm the same way. I think I would
be the mean but again, I don't have kids. It's
so easy easy for me to sit back and say,
it's a lot harder for somebody like Courtney. You know
who is a mom, right, what do you do in
that situation?

Speaker 3 (23:07):
Courtney?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
It's complicated. I have to say, the mean mom really
resonates because my mother, for me, she did that, and
it is a great sort of I could blame anything
I couldn't do on my mother, and I also do
pull that and I'm like, listen, whatever the situation is,
it's on me and I'm the hard one. So then

(23:31):
you don't have to It makes less complicated.

Speaker 7 (23:35):
But I think the argument that I always get back
when I'm like, I would never let my kids play
rollblocks because I wouldn't. But the argument I always hear back,
and it's totally valid, is that my kid is going
to be ostracized from his friendly Yeah, And I mean
that is one hundred percent valid feedback, right, I think,
because I don't know, nobody wants kids to sit on the.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Sidelines, right, right, So how do you handle.

Speaker 7 (23:58):
That, because I think that's the big hold up is
that you know, all the kids are playing it. So
my little Jimmy, my little six year old Jimmy, is
the only one in his class that's not allowed to play,
and now all his friends he's getting bullied because now
he's like the reject in the classroom.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Right.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
I mean other people have said and experts as well.
If you can almost have a little pod, but this
sort of needs to start really young and a group
agreement of whether it's this friend group won't have access
to exa game or we will not we like vow
to each other to not get phones until ex A
time because it does get really complicated. But that's unless

(24:41):
everyone is sort of in on it.

Speaker 7 (24:44):
So everybody, every parent needs to be on the same page,
like in Jimmy's little classroom, or they're a little bit drunk.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
And I bet that's where the challenge happens. Even though
let's say there's four people in that little pod, but
then the other students in the class have it, so
then they start to want to do what you're doing.
So I mean, I can imagine it's it's it would
be a challenge, like I can't say no to a
little sad face of a child like I want to
phone type. I probably can't give in really quickly. So

(25:12):
you are the mean mom.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
You could, I really would be.

Speaker 7 (25:14):
I'd be the worst, I see, the mean mom.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
I'd be just the pushover dad, like okay, but but
safety has to happen first. So it's it's it's the
key thing.

Speaker 7 (25:25):
Hate me all you want, but you're going to be safe, right. Yeah,
that's kind of like how I feel. And I was
that way with my nieces. Oh my god, I was
so bad with them with their electronics. Yeah, I would
take I would take it away from them all the time,
like nope, taking the iPad, taking this, taking that you
can get because I paid for them, get them anymore
if you got in trouble. I took them for like
a week. Yeah, but it's it's easy. I got to

(25:47):
take them and leave, you know, right, your mom and
I got to sit there and deal with it. I
just got to leave.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
So I was.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
You know, I have one relative, like she has a
fourteen year old and she her or the way she
handles it. She's a major communicator. They talk about everything
almost too much, like they're just so open about everything.
So she said, that's been my method, Like he tells
me literally everything. We have such an open dialogue, so

(26:15):
maybe part of the part of it's communicating. But again
as a non parent, it's so much easier said than done.
But you know there's something to be said.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
But even what you said, a lot of and this
is experts, both for this show and for another project.
I've been listening to a lot of experts and interviews
and stuff, and it is communication and not just warning.
It's not just the Internet. It's your kid and what
their piece of it is sort of and how that works.

(26:45):
So the open lines of communication and warning of what
is out there, not what can be, what is out
there and keeping those lines open is important.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Sure, I think.

Speaker 7 (26:58):
So this is true Crime Tonight and I Heart Rao
talking to crime all the time. I'm body and I'm
here with Haha and Courtney and we're in the middle
of Talkback Tuesday. If you want to leave one, download
the iHeartRadio app and hit the little microphone, leave us
a talkback and boom, You're going to be on the show.
What do we have next? What talkback we got?

Speaker 16 (27:14):
Hey, this is Lisa calling from Pittsburgh. In regard to
the security on children's phones, in my experience, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly,
the androids allow more parental controls and restrictions and it's
easier to monitor in my experience, in my opinion, than
an Apple iPhone.

Speaker 7 (27:34):
I would agree. I have both an iPhone. I have
both a headphone and a Samsung Galaxy. I was an
Android user for years. Like I was like, I don't
want an iPhone, No way am I getting an iPhone
because with an Android, you know, as somebody that's in
the computer biz, you have a lot more control over

(27:58):
an Android, and I didn't want to give that up.
And you can because you can root them. There's a
lot more things you can do technically with them. And
because of that, inherently it has more security. It has
more robust programs that would assist parents in the parental controls,
and they're harder for kids to figure out because not

(28:20):
every kid has one.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Oh that's an interesting one.

Speaker 7 (28:25):
Kids have iPhones, right, right, have iPhones, and so all
the kids know how to get around stuff with androids,
they don't know they they don't really know how to
get around it. As well as my phone, and it's
easier to lock down, and like I said, you can
root them and install anything you want. And I do

(28:45):
think I do think that they are probably twenty thirty
percent more secure than an iPhone.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Okay, did you shift over to iPhone?

Speaker 7 (28:56):
I use my I use my Android for work only,
and then my iPhone for all my personal stuff.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
Okay, yeah, because I only asked that because I have
two sort of techie friends that I feel are in
your world. And they also were big advocates forever. Oh Android, Android, Android,
You're always like, I only want to Android. But then
lately I've noticed they've had they have shifted, like, okay,
they sort of gave into.

Speaker 7 (29:20):
The as you know, I find as you get older.
You know, I'm fifty now, so as I get older,
I've kind of like given up the idea of staying
totally in tune with everything that's happening in the technical world.
You know, I'm kind of letting go a little bit,
like it's time for the next generation, you know. And
so and so I got the iPhone just because all

(29:42):
my friends do and whatnot, and I want to fit
into their ecosystem. And I was the only one that wasn't.
And so because I was so resistant, I'm never going
to get an iPhone? What are you talking about?

Speaker 16 (29:52):
Right?

Speaker 7 (29:52):
And so finally I did. Now I'm in their ecosystem
and everything's fine. But at work I still use the Android.

Speaker 17 (30:00):
Okay, Right, how are these kids getting around the parental controls?

Speaker 14 (30:06):
Is it?

Speaker 18 (30:06):
Like?

Speaker 17 (30:06):
Are they downloading app or are they you know? It's like,
I feel like it would be good for parents to
like learn the loophole, you know. Just I wonder if
there's a way to counteract that, if we just know
how they're getting around these good clastion.

Speaker 7 (30:21):
I don't have, so I don't know what they're doing.
I just think they're figuring.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
It out well. Even when Katie the Expert, the Internet
Expert Extraordinaire, was on, I remember her saying, for any
and every parental control there is, there's an adorable twelve
year old giving a little video tutorial on how to
get around whatever it is. So from that, Adam, I'm

(30:45):
going to guess there's not.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
You know, one one thing, right, Sure, there's many sort
of multitudes, right, yeah, And.

Speaker 7 (30:52):
I feel like maybe maybe we can look at the
most common ones and like doing a segment about it.
That might be a good idea like these are them
in ways that kids are getting around these printal controls,
and maybe we can just kind of tell everybody what
those are. It would be a good thing. You're right,
that's a good idea.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
It's a very good katieback and Doogle. We so we
love kating.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
She was on with her cozy cozy sweater.

Speaker 7 (31:15):
If she wasn't getting on the plane, she would have
gotten on in front of a fire with a glass
of wine. It would have been a thing. And I'm
here for a body.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
You had something about Ellen Greenberg, which we've had so
many talkbacks about.

Speaker 7 (31:32):
Yeah, I kind of wanted to open up this discussion
and I want to know how you guys feel about this.
After Ellen passed away, and again her and Sam were
to be married later in the year, they were not married, right,
Sam and Ellen Greenberg? Sam Goldman and Ellen Greenberg were
not married. After she passed her, his uncle went into

(31:56):
the house and hook like her electronics and you know,
things that belonged to Ellen. And I find that incredulous.
I find that like just insane. First of all, he
did not own items. He's not a relative, he's not
They weren't married. It's not like, oh, it's family because

(32:17):
they weren't married, right, they took laptops, phones, credit cards.
I just find that crazy. And you know, it's controversial because,
you know, Ellen's family argues that his uncle's removal of
those items broke chain of custody, which is like really
critical to preserving evidence in this death investigation, right her,

(32:40):
especially her computer and whatnot. The fact that the apartment
was cleaned before a proper forensic crime scene team had
secured everything is also, you know, a really massive problem
in this investigative, like nightmare that Philadelphia has. I don't know,
I just kind of wanted to talk about that I
found I just found it crazy that you know, and listen,

(33:02):
if you look into his background, it's not great. Oh really,
I don't know what the details.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I don't because I'm also as incredulous as you about
him taking Like what what rationale?

Speaker 3 (33:14):
What was it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Possibly have, but what what's the background? Body?

Speaker 7 (33:20):
I think people should just do some research.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I like that. I will do my digging.

Speaker 7 (33:26):
I'm going to stay my hands are going to stay clean.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Okay. But from a legal standpoint, I didn't think that
if you're not married, I didn't think you could take
those items out just because they're in a relationship. Is that.
I don't know how that works. I've never been in
a situation where, you know, but I assumed the first
of pen would be the only person that had access
to take those items out. Like but you know, I

(33:50):
know there was a lot of confusion that evening someone
had died, and all those things are part of it.

Speaker 7 (33:55):
But nobody should have taken anything out of the house,
even her parents, right, nobody should have taken anything out
of the home. Now, it was ruled a suicide, so
case closed. Right, anything didnt go right, He's not a relative,
he's not he doesn't own those things. His kin did
not own those things, right, Ellen did, right, And so

(34:17):
it's just very it's very sus to me. And who knows,
Like somebody could take that out and forensically wipe things.
We know Brian Coberger was very successful and forensically wiping
things off his computer.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Hmmm, Right, do you think they could ever go back
and look at that laptop and maybe there's a war
where you can see what was wiped?

Speaker 18 (34:36):
Sure?

Speaker 7 (34:37):
Absolutely, And I don't know if that's been done or not.
You know, it's just a suicide. Who's going to be
doing that? Right, there's not the investigation. There's no investigation, yeah, right, which.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Is why the cause of death is so important because
it can trigger or disable any investigation.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Right.

Speaker 7 (34:57):
So I just wanted to find I just wanted to
finish up my thoughts because we you know, were kind
of answering the last talkback, which by the way, was
fantastic in segment one, and I just wanted to finish
up that with the uncle. I just thought that was
really poor, uh poor, the whole thing from from nutstabolts.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
This investigation has been poor.

Speaker 7 (35:20):
The city of brotherly love, right Yeah, yeah, anyway, so
let's go to another talk back High Team.

Speaker 19 (35:28):
This is Alicia from Atlanta. I do have a thought
in regards to the singer, David, I find the authorities.
You need to let the public know. As a social worker,
it kind of stresses me out that there might be
someone out there as a perpetrator who may be a
danger to other little girls. This family needs to know
what happened to their child. Thank you have a great one, guy.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 7 (35:54):
There's a killer on the loose right potentially right there,
or somebody at least that is okay with abuse of
a corpse, right, it was just still a crime. It
was still a crime, and a.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Dark crime at that. And this actually goes right back
to Ellen Greenberg and the fact that it is still
there is no cause of death. It has been deferred,
I think, is the official cause still in the case
of Seles Revs.

Speaker 7 (36:23):
And I feel a little bit like I feel, I
mean just a tiny little bit so right now that
it's kind of getting swept under the rug a little bit. Really,
I do you know, they haven't said anything like, hey,
you know, we're waiting for to nothing. We haven't heard
anything from LAPD.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Nothing.

Speaker 7 (36:43):
They led it in that one statement and they were like,
we're looking into things. Nothing since absolutely nothing. Wow, it's
crazy to me.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
And are we going back? Was it September eighth? Is
that about the date.

Speaker 7 (36:55):
That's today that her body was found? It was told
on the fifth of September of September.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, but that's I mean looking.

Speaker 7 (37:03):
At months almost two months, and I mean talks can
take eight weeks or so, so I mean we're right
around that time, and I think maybe I might just
be getting impatient. And you know, I'm okay admitting that understandably,
So I mean nothing from LAPD. Nothing and a lot
of not a lot, I would say, a nice handful

(37:24):
of people are getting very suss of this, like is
this like a celebrity scandal being you know, swept under
the rug by? You know LAPD, who, by the way,
is notorious for doing this kind of thing, so you know, yeah, like, see,
we think.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
That because it's a celebrity involved, there's there are more
eyes on it, so you want to show, like, look
how we're top.

Speaker 7 (37:44):
Of it now there is, but you know back in
the heyday, you know, there wasn't. So people are getting
people are getting frustrated, and people too are talk back Alicia. Yeah,
people are getting up worried, like there's a killer on
the loose in LA. What's going on?

Speaker 15 (38:00):
Really?

Speaker 7 (38:00):
Kids safe? This is forte She was fourteen. People forget this.
He was fourteen. She was a little girl and her
body was found in the trunk of a singer's car
and nobody has said anything.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Wow, well, we're not going to stop. We're going to
keep on top of the side.

Speaker 11 (38:19):
And I think there was a detective person someone that
was involved his home.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
The person David Oh Steve.

Speaker 7 (38:27):
Fisher, the Pi. The landlord hired Steve Fisher. He is
a missing person's investigator, and by the way, he is
doing a really good job on this. In fact, he
tweeted about it yesterday. Oh he's kind of kind of
throwing a little shade at the family a little bit.
Oh okay, really, what's the thing?

Speaker 20 (38:47):
Do you remember there is a photo that he dug
up of Celeste with her cousin at a graduation high
school graduation during the time she was reported missing.

Speaker 7 (38:59):
Really, and he's like, listen, what was she missing or not?
And if she was if she was missing and you
knew where she was, what's the situation? Oh? You know,
like what's going on here? And the reason you know,
the reason that you know he's kind of asking the
cousin this kind of stuff. You know, she's only eighteen
years old, Okay, so she's but she's an adult. Is

(39:20):
because she's the one who set up to go fund
me and is raising all this money and you know,
so there's a lot going on, okay, And he's just like, listen,
what is the situation? Was she missing or was she not?
And or if you know, if she was missing, did
you know where she was? Did you know who she
was with. Did you know he was twenty years old?

Speaker 2 (39:39):
That kind of thing, right, you know? Or and or
was it a nebulous situation where yeah, she was she
was reported missing because she was and perhaps would pop
in and out right for a graduation but then disappear.
So god, you know, there may be many shades of
there might be gray, black, purple involved in this, right,

(40:02):
but we will definitely keep you updated as soon as
there is information because body, to your point, it has
been quiet from the labed very is the word. Yeah,
let's go to another talk back. A.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
Hi, this is Julie. I am fascinated by the heist
at the Louver and wondered if you had ever heard
about the heist at the Isabel Gardner Museum in Boston.
It happened in nineteen ninety two. Thieves were posing as
police officers in the middle of the night and they
were admitted and ended up stealing thirteen pieces of artwork.
Tim and Land from crawl Space did an amazing podcast

(40:38):
called empty Frames. Those pieces of artwork have never been
found and they were from famous artists.

Speaker 7 (40:45):
Okay, first of all, the podcast name crawl Space terrifies me.
That is a fabulous name though for a podcast crawl space.
I love that.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
I do like that. I have not heard of this before,
had that. I just did a quick search. I'm seeing something.
It looks like. In the early hours of March eighth
March eighteenth, nineteen ninety two, men in police uniforms rang
the museum's doorbell, claimed to be responding to a disturbance.
They were admitted. The on duty guard allowed the men.
They overpowered the staff and then spent eighty one minutes

(41:18):
stealing art. They stole thirteen works of art with a
current estimate value of five hundred million. Wow.

Speaker 7 (41:26):
What what famous? What famous pieces were miss stalling?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
You know?

Speaker 3 (41:30):
The concert by Johannes Wehermer forgive me no know some
of the artists christ in the Storm of the Sea,
by of Galilee by rembrandt oh Okaandt. And several works
of Edgar Degas. I should know this artist, you guys know.
Plus a bronze something bronze and it sounds it says

(41:55):
more so. Yeah, wow, but a rem brand alone. But
five hundred million, that's.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
That's a billion dollars. By the way, body, I love you.
I heard empty frames as the podcast title, which I
think was it empty Frames.

Speaker 7 (42:10):
I thought that was the title of the podcast. The
name of the podcast is crawl Space. The name of
the episode is empty frames.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Is what I heard. Ah, two separate podcasts named.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Maybe I don't know, but crawl Spaces.

Speaker 7 (42:24):
Okay, securus, see, can we really quick? I am terrified
of small spaces, like I even get a little claustrophobic
in elevators, like I cannot stand them. Have you guys
ever seen the froggers? These people they live, they get
in your home. I'm not even getting the guys, we

(42:46):
have got to talk about this, not the video game Sam.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
No nose people.

Speaker 7 (42:52):
It's called frogging, I think. And they get in your
house when you're not there. They live in your attic.
They live in your attic.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
I'm yeah, I've seen horror movies about it. But there
was one person that had a hidden camera. I think
they kept saying, like, where is all my sandwiches are missing?
Like she would go disappear at night, So they set
up a camera only to see and you know, those
dark nightces make it look even creepier. So you see
the glowy lights and a person like climbs out of
the fall space in the middle of the night, Shimmy's down.

(43:22):
You see them standing there, eating, walking around, looking at
the mail, crawls back up and lives there. I'm like,
this is crazy.

Speaker 7 (43:29):
It is seen literally terrifying, like because people are living
like this. Courtney Courtney has looking at me like the
devil incarnate right now.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
It's the scariest thing I've ever heard or never. I
didn't know this existed.

Speaker 7 (43:41):
When we go to the break, I'm gonna look it up.
I think it's on Hulu. I watched two episodes and
I had stop watching because I literally could live in
a world and never know about this and it's totally fine.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
I was so much happier thirty five seconds ago. I
literally have the itches, like every I'm scratching myself might
be my skin crawling, and I'm looking And then.

Speaker 7 (44:02):
They go, so they the guys living in the house,
they go, they get them out, they go up there
and there's like a sleeping bag, a little heater, a
little cool a little bucket where they're going to the
back like they're living up there.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Also even when the most innocuous thing, but it really
struck me of like, where's my sandwiches going. How crazy
making would that be? If you're like, I know, I
put two bananas here and now there's one and then.

Speaker 7 (44:26):
You get in a fight with your husband.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
That's what you're cheating on the diet. No, I'm not,
I swear.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Imagine imagine, Oh, and they come out this, they come
out while.

Speaker 7 (44:39):
Yeah, because they leave and they go to work and
they and then they come back and like it's a thing.
They literally live like this. I'm look it up. It's crazy.
It's going to be I must not.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
They must choose houses without pets. I'd have to imagine.
I'm just trying to make myself feel better again with
three little dogs.

Speaker 7 (44:55):
You know what, You're probably right, You and I are
probably safe. This is why Stephanie needs a dog.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
This is me too.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
I don't have a dog either. I live alone, so I'm.

Speaker 8 (45:10):
Alone.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I thought so, but now someone's living rent free rent.

Speaker 7 (45:14):
You've seen this documentary, Give me a call because I
want to talk about this because I was so scared.
I was because I live alone too. I was like,
oh my god, somebody's in my attic and I'm afraid
and I'm a I'm definitely afraid of small spaces, so like,
I'm thinking about this person like living in my attic
and in the small space and it's double scaring me. Yeah,

(45:35):
I'll go in an elevator and when it as soon
as those doors closed, I'm like, I had to crawl
in caves in Malaysia.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
For the more. I couldn't do that.

Speaker 7 (45:46):
That episode, I was like growing up. Oh, and they
had to stop filming. I was because the caves are
like this this, and you have to crawl, you have
to kind and You've got like a hard hat on
that kept hitting the laptites and the thing, and I'm
like and I'm knowing up, it's the worst thing, every
past past.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
No more frog, and well listen, give it here. At
the top of the hour, we have more talkbacks, we
have more dms, and we want to hear from you.
Eighty to eighty one crime. What do you know about
that you don't think people do like frog? Or do
you have anything else to share? Give us a call
True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio,

(46:37):
where we talk true crime all the time. I'm Courtney
or I'm Strong. I'm here as always with crime analysts.
Body move in Stephanie is out this evening due to
tech issues, but you will be back. It's talk Back Tuesdays,
So we are really taking your lead with all of
the information that you send us. Don't forget if you

(46:58):
miss any part of the Sho show, you can always
grab us on the podcast and we want to hear
from you. So give us a call eight to eight
three one crime or get with us on socials at
True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and Instagram and True
Crime Tonight on Facebook, which leads us right into a DM.
We got body.

Speaker 7 (47:18):
Oh, I'm going to read it. Okay, let's go. So
this one is from kriston Okay and it's a DM
and she says, I never thought about why I like
true crime until you brought it up. Nancy Drew was
my first crime fighting idol, and later on I was
addicted to murder. She wrote, like, taha, I love a puzzle,
but most of all, I love when people get caught

(47:39):
and punish for their bad deeds. There is something so
gratifying about that. I suppose it makes this feel or
makes me feel like there is justice in this crazy world. Yes,
I feel the same way. I'm literally I love a puzzle,
like I'm always like, let's try to figure something out
or figure out where the piece is fit. I love
that about like sleuthing and putting the piece together, right,

(48:00):
I love that piece of it. And then, you know,
I loved Nancy Drew as well when I was a
little girl, and Scooby Doo, Vala and Daphne were the
crime solving girls you know in the world, and I
love them, right, and I loved it, and you know,
and and justice, you know, And I think most of
us have experienced something in our life where justice wasn't served,

(48:24):
or something wasn't fair, or even something wasn't fair right,
And this is a way for us to feel like
justice is being served, even though we have nothing to
do with like solving the crime or or anything like that.
Just like maybe going along for the ride and seeing
seeing justice and learning how people get caught doing really

(48:45):
bad things is somewhat therapeutic.

Speaker 11 (48:47):
I think, I agree, yeah, And like you, I also
loved the Nancy Drew rowing up a lot of party boys.
I used to read their little books as well, And
so there's something about the mystery and solving it. And
I guess I'm a lot like Kristen because I also
started to enjoy murder.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
She wrote that was because I have older relatives that
would always watch it.

Speaker 11 (49:05):
Yeah, it's the ridiculousness, and I'd sit down and then
I'm like, this is actually kind of good, and by
the end, I'm like.

Speaker 7 (49:10):
Wait, Angela Lansbury right in that quaint little town, right, yeah,
that was a really good show for the day, right right.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Absolutely. Did you guys, Did you guys ever read the
k Scark Hey Scark Peta books by Patricia Cornwell? I
didn't know one of you. Actually, if any of you
have read the Patricia Cornwell books, give us a Caller,
leave us a d M eighty eight three one crime.
Maybe we'll share with Joseph Scott Morgan. She wrote multiple

(49:45):
books and it was from the perspective of the medical
Examiner and foreigner and they were really these intricate mysteries
and who done it? And they're really fabulous. They were
wildly popular, wild like she was.

Speaker 7 (50:00):
My favorite books. My favorites growing up were the ones
where you got to pick your own adventure.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Like choose.

Speaker 7 (50:07):
If you choose option A, go to page seventy seven,
and then you would go to page seventy seven, and
I didn't like that option, so that I would go
back and try the next one. I don't like that one,
and I would cheat, and then I would be like,
oh I finished, I'm an expert.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Okay, that's so telling. I was going to say, what
did you do? Taha? What did you do with choose
your own adventures?

Speaker 3 (50:26):
I don't remember doing a lot of choosers. I think
I probably did the same thing, because I do feel
like that's just in my nature that like, if I
didn't like the outcome, let me go back and try
over again. Oh yeah, But I don't remember doing a
lot of Did they choose your own adventures?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (50:40):
Oh they do.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, they absolutely, they absolutely do. Sam or Adam, did
you read those? Because I feel like it's such a
psychological thing of whether you look like Stephanie, for example,
we've talked about this and she would not like she
was not if she if she went to page seventy
seven and it was and she's like, oh, well, I'm done.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Really yeah into it?

Speaker 17 (51:00):
There there were some I was like rellingto reading Goosebumps
growing up, and they had a few of those for Goosebumps,
and I remember them just being like so far out
and weird and like I don't.

Speaker 7 (51:14):
Know what science fiction books?

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah, yeah, it was like I don't know.

Speaker 17 (51:19):
I I have a strange memories of reading those growing up.

Speaker 7 (51:22):
I only read a couple. But so you wouldn't cheat, though,
you would just go to page seventy seven and deal
with your fate.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
You know, I would.

Speaker 17 (51:30):
I would cheat a little bit, you know, see a
couple of different endings.

Speaker 7 (51:34):
I appreciate the honesty.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
Appreciate Sam, Sam, you're up?

Speaker 7 (51:40):
What did you do?

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Did you?

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Did you cheat?

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Sam?

Speaker 7 (51:42):
Or do you think?

Speaker 21 (51:42):
I was raised on TV? So I didn't, but I
did watch, like going back to the school. I've watched
most of the versions that were out there because Cartoon Network.

Speaker 7 (51:57):
So I love it it. What about you, Courty? It
never answers what you did?

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Oh yeah, total cheater. Oh I mean I would have
pulled a typewriter out and rewritten my own ending if
I had the option.

Speaker 18 (52:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
So that's all of us with less a psychological test,
because honestly, I've done this in different groups, and there
are honest people among us. Just who not on the show.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Does I mean I'm like we're controlling people?

Speaker 7 (52:22):
Wait? Does that mean I'm not an honest person.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
No, No, not that. It's more rule following, I think
is what it is now.

Speaker 7 (52:30):
I am. I'm very much a rule follower, follower as
an adult, like I yes, like I drive ten and two,
you know.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
What I mean.

Speaker 7 (52:38):
Yeah, I pumped the brakes when I stop because I'm like, okay,
I got to make sure the guy behind me is
going to know I'm going to be stopping. I am
a rule follower one million percent as an adult.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
I was ant job.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
Oh, I think it's more of like I like the
outcome to be the way that I want it to be.
So maybe it's a little less of you're controlling. Maybe
that's it.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Makes for a good producer.

Speaker 7 (53:07):
Kristin. Kristin, thank you very much for the DM. It
made us talk for quite a while. Actually, Courtney, do
we have another one?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yes, we have one from Serena from down under in
New Zealand. I love New Zealand all the kiwis goodness,
love Hello True Crime tonight, I'm too chicken to leave
a talk back. Well, we're thrilled you. That's a DM.
I listen every night and love you guys so much.
I feel so much part of the group. I even
talk about quote our conversations with my work mates.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Uh talk back Tuesday this week was so funny. You
can't wait for your merch to be available. I will
definitely be purchasing a hoodie. I think the true crime
tonight waited vest was a hilarious idea. Maybe I should
wait until those are available for purchasing. Give out the
great work, love all the KT content, Serena, Thank you
so sincerely.

Speaker 7 (53:56):
And you are part of our conversations, like yeah, you
know what I mean. Literally, that's the whole point of
the show is that we can have like this group
conversation and the more voices the better. And you know what,
I wouldn't wait if I were you for the way
to vest because I think shipping to New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
It's going to take a while.

Speaker 7 (54:14):
Yeah, it would probably cost about four hundred dollars.

Speaker 11 (54:18):
Yeah, I think so, and we're still in the process,
so it's going to take a minute.

Speaker 7 (54:21):
Now, a hoodie, I'm sure we can do that. That
we can do, but a weighted vest probably not.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
No need to do that.

Speaker 7 (54:29):
But you know, I think a lot of people are
to a chicken to call in or leave a talk back.
But you guys, it's so easy. When you press the
microphone in the app, you get to hear yourself back,
and if you don't like it, you can rerecord it.
It's just like leaving a voicemail or a voice note
to your friends and I message or something. It's so
simple and it maybe if you get caught off, just

(54:49):
leave another one, like, hey, this is me again, serrita.
This is part two, and we'll get it.

Speaker 17 (54:54):
You get multiple chances too. If you don't like it,
you can try it again.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
That's right.

Speaker 17 (54:58):
If you say, I'm a lot, Sam and Sam and
I will cut it out.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
So even sound better. Oh yeah, well we.

Speaker 17 (55:06):
Have some very eloquent speakers, but sometimes you know, we'll
cut some space out and make them sound better.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
That's a great note for everyone to know, so that
you're going to sound great no matter what.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
I think you could edit. My arms was so scary
going from podcasts that I got to be a part
of the credits to this and then it's just you know,
my mouth moving and all the ms and everything else.

Speaker 7 (55:35):
Courtney. The first listen back I heard of the first night,
I was like, I'm saying so much. I was like, oh,
my gosh, I can't. This is how I talk? Who
is this so scary?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
I can't listen to it? Like I tried to listen
to the other night and I'm like, no, I can't.
I can't make me I cringe. I'm like, who but they?
But I will let you in a secret. I did
actually need to talk back once a long time ago.
I did because I was on a flight. It was
when I was on vacation. I was on a flight
going and that we were actually boarding the plane. I

(56:07):
was like, I want, don't we even talk about because
I feel left out because I'm that part of the team.

Speaker 7 (56:11):
Did we play it?

Speaker 12 (56:12):
You?

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Did we play it?

Speaker 2 (56:13):
You? Hear like you are not boarding.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
In the background.

Speaker 7 (56:19):
Do not recognize your voice?

Speaker 2 (56:21):
I don't remember that.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
I feel like someone said it on air. They called
it out. I was just going to say I re
recorded it like at least four times, like it was
so many. I was like, oh, I sound dumb. So
all I have to say to people out there listening,
do it over and over until you get it right. Yeah,
and we'll still fix it to make it sound better.

Speaker 7 (56:38):
But Serena, we understand like you too shy and too
scared like one hundred percent. I'm a DM girl, so
I totally get it and thank you so much for that.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
DM.

Speaker 7 (56:47):
It was so sweet and you you definitely are part
of our conversation, so I love it.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Who wants to read the next one?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
You can? I see, I see one that I'm dying
to read because it sounds interesting. I want to hear
everyone's input in this one. This is from I think
it's pronounced Cadron. Cadrin says high high crime tonight, Gang,
I have a great idea for a comfort drink that
will help keep you awake during this wonderful autumn season.
Try pumpkin spice lattes with Italian egg biscuits. It's such

(57:20):
a delight.

Speaker 7 (57:21):
You have me a pumpkin spice Lotte, You have me
what is an what's an Italian egg biscuit?

Speaker 3 (57:27):
I was about to ask the two of you. You
both seem like culinary types, and I was.

Speaker 7 (57:32):
A culinary type.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Well, oh you know what they are. They're the ones
from and I grew up in Queens. We didn't really
have supermarkets. It was you go to the cheese store
for like you go to the Italian bakeries. Certainly with
the bodegas on every corner. But oh man, that's right.
These are those delicious cookies. They're usually have a little

(57:55):
bit of lemon in them, I think, and they have
this frosting on top with the little little sprinkles, little balls. Man,
you can picture. They're sound good light. They're like powdered sugar. Okay,
I am all in on the egg biscuits and I
will split the order. Body. Pumpkin spice is all you, Courtney.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
You and I are so alike. I was about to say,
I'm not even fond of like pumpkin like you, and
I don't like pumpkin like.

Speaker 7 (58:27):
Pumpkin pie. The texture, No, absolutely not.

Speaker 17 (58:32):
A well you know what I like a lot this
time of year. Uh that When I was in Chicago,
they have a Dunkin Donut Donuts like every corner in
the city.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I would get the pumpkin donuts. They sell pumpkin donuts.

Speaker 17 (58:47):
They're so good. If you're if you're someone who's passing
Dunkin Donuts every day, go get the pumpkin donut this month.

Speaker 7 (58:55):
Like dont cider donuts. I grew up in Michigan and
apple apples is a big thing. Yeah, an apple cider, donuts,
chef's kiss. I love me a good apple cider.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Yeah, that does sound good.

Speaker 21 (59:08):
I've actually been spice waffles.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
That actually sounds good. They always sound better, but then
when I tried them, I love it. But that sounds quite.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I'm happy you've been making waffles. You had said that
you wanted to up your cooking game a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 21 (59:26):
I have this little, tiny waffle maker that's barely bigger
than my hands, but it's like, okay, at least making
breakfast food on my own.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
There you go, and from Trader Joe's. Is that where
you said you got it from. Yes, okay, another favorite
place of mine too. I feel like they have everything
and nothing at the same time. I don't know why.
I feel like every time I go there, I see
everything I want but nothing I really need.

Speaker 7 (59:49):
But have you tried the seafood boil from Trader Joe's.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
No, it's very good seafood boil.

Speaker 7 (59:55):
Okay, It's like eleven bucks and it's a full sea
will boil and it is delicious.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Really.

Speaker 7 (01:00:03):
Another really good thing at Trader Joe's, so you didn't know,
is the bogie. Oh do you like the Korean meat?

Speaker 8 (01:00:11):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
Yes, theirgi is so good. Another really, I'm like a.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Trader Yeah, I'm saying, I love.

Speaker 7 (01:00:19):
Me at Trader Joe's. The other really good thing that
they have are the soup dumplings.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Yeah, have you seen the recipe, the viral one? Now,
I think you take the I think it's coconut milk
and it's one of their like uh soy type horses,
and you put the dumplings in that and you bake
that anyway, it's like a baked you'll see it. They're everywhere.
There's a Trader Joe recipe for the tlings that's going around.

(01:00:45):
But the dumplings.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Oh and the soyaki maybe what you're referring to soyaki
is I don't know what that is delicious, So it's
it's like a mix of soy sauce and terry hockey
and there's sesame seeds in it. It has got tang
and its own kind of delicious.

Speaker 7 (01:01:07):
I mean I always get like three or four boxes
of the soup dumplings because there's like six in a box.
But they're real eat them every single Those are my
favorite ones are the chicken.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Oh yeah, I love I love a good soup dumplings.

Speaker 7 (01:01:23):
You know what, I would love to hear what people put,
what their favorite items are at Trader Joe's. Let's get
a shopping lots together. Give us a call eighty eight
thirty one Crime or leave us a talk back, because
I will love me a Trader Joe's, Like, you know
what I mean, totally into it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
This leads to Stephanie's dream that we will have cooking nights.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Yeah, she's gonna be so envious. We're talking about this
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
No, we're just getting started from when she's got to do.

Speaker 7 (01:01:50):
They have Trader Joses in Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Oh, that's a good put on. They're everywhere. I'm going
to look into that. I'll check that finely.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
All right, Well, tahas on the case and listen. Stick
around because after the break we have more talkbacks. We're
talking about whatever you are feeding us, and we're also
going to get into the toy box killer because it's Halloween.
Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 7 (01:02:25):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we
talk true crime all the time. I'm body movin and
I'm here with producer Courtney Armstrong and producer Taha. Thank
you for being here both of you, and don't forget.
If you miss any part of tonight's show, you can
always catch the podcast. We also want to hear from you.
Give us a call at eight eight eight three one
crime or get what's on our socials. It's at True

(01:02:47):
Crime Tonight's show on TikTok and Instagram, or you can
use Facebook just look for true Crime Tonight. But now listen,
we asked you, guys, which true crime cases scare you
the most, and you answered, let's go to that talk
back right now.

Speaker 15 (01:03:01):
Hey, ladies, it's Brittany from Montreal. I'm just replying to
your post about what true crime story scares us the most.
So for me, have to be David Parker Ray, known
as the Toy Box Killer. For some reason, he hasn't
really known or talked about as much in true crime.
Most people have no idea who he is, surprisingly, but
this story has stuck with me four years. So he
and his girlfriend would abduct women, and before he had

(01:03:24):
a girlfriend, his daughter used to help him, which is
another crazy They drug, assault and torture them and once abducted,
you'd wake up groggy, chained up. He'd play a terrifying
pre recorded tape for you in which he'd describing great
detail what you're about to go through, and he really
messed with your mind as well. Gives me like jigsaw vibes.

(01:03:47):
And he'd also have this toy box hence the name
with homie torture devices and like a god in college's chair,
just so crazy. You can find the transcripts online and
some of the videos online. I actually got nawsees deep
diving this one, which never happens, so yeah, trigger warning
on this case. Unfortunately, he did die before being convicted,
but he documented almost everything, so there's plenty of evidence.

(01:04:09):
No bodys were fought. But this is back like sixty
plus victims, So yeah, that's definitely the case that scares
me the most. I'm looking forward to hearing everybody else's answers,
So have a great night, ladies.

Speaker 7 (01:04:20):
Thank you wow on the FBI page for him right now.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
And it's a crazy Yeah, this is this one is crazy.
It's interesting. We got that talk back and you know,
thank everyone for sending in your talkbacks. But Ava and I,
in our early mornings we researched and started looking into it,
and Ava said, this is the scariest and freakiest story
I have ever heard. So I started looking into it
and I even agreed. So we went along to Courtney

(01:04:47):
and like, Courtney, are you familiar with this one? Would
you be up for telling everyone about it? She read
it and said this is crazy and said, okay, let's
let's talk about it. But to the talkback, the person
that sent the talk back over the person's name, I
missed their name, but Brittany, I believe to Brittaney's point,
it's a trigger alert. So let's let everyone know that
we're going to be talking about some stuff that's pretty graphic,

(01:05:11):
to the point where I even said, like, let's let's
not go too in detail with some of this, but
court talk about some of this to everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Yeah, So, first of all, you laid the story out beautifully.
I'll fill in a little bit. And as Taha said,
we have dialed it back. Everything we are saying is fact,
but a little toned down, if you can believe it. So,
this guy, David Parker Ray again was known as the
Toy Box Killer, and he was a kidnapper, torturer, and

(01:05:40):
suspected serial killer in New Mexico. His crimes happened over
the course of a bunch of decades, and as mentioned,
he did. He abducted and tortured women in this soundproof
trailer he called his toy box and again he would
his girlfriend Cindy Hendy would be there to help and

(01:06:01):
kind of help bring and deliver victims to him.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Yeah, that's the part that's always weird when someone will,
like you get family or someone you're dating to help
you with this.

Speaker 7 (01:06:11):
But reminds me of of Ian Brady and Myra Henley.
They were the more murderers in England. Did you guys
ever hear about them? No, So it's really rare to
have a couple doing these kinds of things, you know.
And if this is a couple too, this toy box
killer anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Please, Yeah, another one we should dive into.

Speaker 7 (01:06:31):
I know a lot about that one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Yeah, So this toy box Killer he in his past
he served as an US Army. He was in the
he was a mechanic. And again he spent one hundred
grand converting this trailer into a soundproof torture chamber.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
One hundred Yeah, Randy, in the nineties, that's like, you know,
I'm going to assume like two hundred thousand that you're
spending just on your torture chamber.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Yes, and as Brittany said it was, it was filled
with surgical tools and restraints. And his accomplices would his
girlfriend primarily would lure these victims from bars or from
the streets, and they would often be drugged before they
got there, so the drugs would be coming into effect,

(01:07:19):
and he would then chain them inside his trailer slash
toy box so unbelievably. When people arrived, Ray would play
an audio tape of his own voice and he would
describe what was about to happen to them. So here's
the transcript. Nothing is added, there is stuff taken away.

(01:07:39):
So people would wake up and hear, hello, there, bitch,
Are you comfortable right now? I doubt it. Wrist and
ankles chained, gagged, you were disoriented and scared too, I'd imagine,
perfectly normal under the circumstances. I don't know the details
of your capture because this tape is being created July

(01:07:59):
tent third, nineteen ninety three. It's a general advisory tape
for future female captives. You're obviously here against your will,
totally hopeless. Oh god, I've never heard of such a
thing like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
That and crazy like he would record something in advance
like it's some sort of it. Yeah, that's the fact
that he put the time and effort and plan this
far advances, got me on the edge of the seat
and frightened.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
And would play that again. This happened over decades. So
this man is beleeved to have kidnapped four to five
women a year, and he would hold them for differing amounts,
some of them really long before releasing them. Authorities suspect,
though it has not been proven, he might have murdered
up to sixty women.

Speaker 7 (01:08:46):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Wow, Yes, and nobody. I had never heard of this
case until Brittany brought it to our attention.

Speaker 7 (01:08:53):
He was arrested though I do see that. Yes, he
was arrested, and he died like a year.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
Later, right, which is why they found I think the bodies.
I think before he passed, he never gave information about
what they are, assuming maybe the other sixty semi victims.

Speaker 7 (01:09:13):
Like yeah, this, so he would use Cindy. Cindy was
his girlfriend, right, and who would use her to lure
and restrain victims, So she was an active participant in this.
And then his daughter would also lure them in some daughter, Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
His daughter, That's what's so wild to me.

Speaker 7 (01:09:34):
And then he had another accomplice named Dennis Yancey, who
was later convicted of murder. Most victims were sex workers
or hitchhikers, making them difficult to grace. They never found
a single body, but they do suspect up to sixty victims.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Wow, yeah, good, you imagine.

Speaker 15 (01:09:52):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
And in March of nineteen ninety nine, a woman named
Cynthia Vigil She's twenty two year old. She broke free
and at the time she was only wearing a metal
collar and chains. She led authorities to Ray and then
later she had a website and she wrote I was

(01:10:13):
determined to escape. And she goes on to explain that
Ray left the home to go to work and his
girlfriend was distracted on the phone, and she says, I
seized the opportunity to grab the key to release myself Handy.
The girlfriend realized what was happening and tried to stop me,
which led to an altered case where Handy being hit

(01:10:35):
in the head with an ice pick by me, which
I thought was such an interesting way to phrase it.

Speaker 7 (01:10:42):
But I said a metal collar.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
She had a metal collar and she released herself from
the chain.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
Why does that stand out to you, Boddy?

Speaker 7 (01:10:52):
So there's a there's a new case in the Blue
Barrel Killer. Yes, yes, Timothy Haslett Junior out of Excelsior Springs, Missouri.
I think I've told the story a couple of times.
And the woman who escaped from his torture chamber in
his basement while he took his child to school had

(01:11:12):
a had a metal collar on and like a trash bag,
and she escaped. She had this will you talked about,
this will to escape, will to get out. And when
she she got out, she went knocking on doors in
the neighborhood. You know, she ran for her life.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:11:30):
She kindly gets away and when the police arrived, she
tells them that Timothy haslet Junior, the guy who kidnapped her,
there was another woman when she arrived with her and
that and then she went away. Let's girl went away,
and that Timothy Haslett Junior, while he was torturing her
let her know that she was not the only one

(01:11:52):
that he has had under his control, and that he's
killed before. And so I mean, but we don't know.
But there was a body found in a blue barrel
and he is being charged with that murder right now,
and he stands trial. I think it starts in December.
I'll have to refollow back up on that, but I
think it starts in December. Timothy has Lejunior, Excelsior, Springs, Missouri.

(01:12:12):
This pretty recent, absolutely, and there are a lot of
similarities which had not occurred to me until you mentioned it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
So I was just gonna say, I wonder if he
was if he heard about this case and was inspired
by it, right, because there's so many similarities. But I
was just going to ask, did you when you're saying
they saw another woman, was it an accomplice or you
think it's another woman another victim?

Speaker 7 (01:12:39):
It was a victim that was also being tortured and
assaulting and whatnot in this basement when she arrived. But
to get back to the toy box guy really quick,
the FBI created a task force because they found all
kinds of souvenirs in his trailer, his torture trailer that
he convert his camp or whatever. And if you know,

(01:13:00):
if you think that maybe a relative of yours or whatnot,
it might have been a victim, it's worth checking out
some of those items that they found, because there's a
lot of jewelry that looks pretty unique. So what they've
done the FBON, this task force, is they've taken photos
of it all and cataloged it. There's over six hundred items. Wow, yeah,

(01:13:22):
really really interesting stuff. Like you know, there's cuff links,
not cufflinks, but ear rings. What did I say, cufflinks,
ear rings, some lapel pins like adors lapel pin rings,
things like that. So you know, maybe listen, if you
in New Mexico in this timeframe, if you maybe have
a missing loved one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
And the timeframe is long, the timeframe is decades. There
was This is horrifying. There was another victim named Angela
Montano and she had a similar story of the woman
you just spoke about, Cynthia Vigil and she after being tortured.
First of all, she was invited to the house to

(01:14:03):
pick up cake mix, which just breaks my heart. So
she thinks she's going there for Kate pake mix. She
is tortured and then somehow, by you know will and
of smart mind, she convinced the pair to release her
along the highway. Okay, they release her. She was then

(01:14:24):
picked up by an off duty law enforcement officer. She
explained what happened, and he didn't believe her and simply
left her at a bus stop. Yeah, and she later
called and followed up with the police about the incident,
but claims that there was no follow up. So yeah,
I mean, it's such an unbelievable story.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
And they would they would often, this Siico and his girlfriend.
They would leave some of these women just by the
roadsides and they would have tried to erase their memories
by using hypnosis and drugs. So this is from another
tape that this guy, David Parker Ray had. He says,

(01:15:11):
I get off on mind games. After we get completely
through with you, you're going to be drugged up real heavy,
And he explains that there is a mix of drugs.
They are both hypnotic drugs that will make you extremely
susceptible to hypnosis, auto hypnosis and hypnotic suggestions. You're going
to be kept drugged a couple of days while I

(01:15:32):
play with your mind. By the time I get through
brainwashing you, you're not going to remember an effing thing
about what.

Speaker 7 (01:15:40):
Happened to them. They just were, they knew they went,
They went missing for vises. Oh, my god.

Speaker 22 (01:15:45):
So I've never heard of such a thing that this guy, Right,
But I guess he's letting the victims are the people free,
but they're all drugs.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
So in other words, I guess not every person is
being killed.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
No.

Speaker 7 (01:16:00):
No, the victims that he is convicted of are all alive, okay,
but they don't know what happened to them because of
these drugs. And like in one case, this this guy
divorced his wife because she disappeared for a couple of days.
Her name was Kelly Garrett. Garrett I disappeared for a
couple of days, and he's like, where the hell, where
the hell were you? And she's like, I don't know,

(01:16:22):
you know what. He didn't trust her after that, and
he divorced her. How sad is that?

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
Oh that's horrible.

Speaker 7 (01:16:28):
I'm just reading it. She was interviewed and she was
on Cold Case Files about her whole ordeal.

Speaker 3 (01:16:33):
Wow. I just was because I.

Speaker 7 (01:16:34):
Never heard of this before.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Yeah, this one is crazy. I wasn't familiar and it's
it's it chills up your spine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
I wonder why again this this hasn't been that widely.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
You know, amon I was saying the same thing. I
think you know, to your earlier point, we're not telling
a lot of the graphic details. But I wonder if
because it's there's such graphic nature, because it's disturbing, they
aren't covering it to that extent, or maybe because I
don't think if that's it. No, do you think maybe

(01:17:08):
because there are a lot of sex.

Speaker 7 (01:17:10):
Workers love to hear the graphic details. I don't know
that's it. People love to hear the graphic details more
than they want to admit.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
I think you might be right about the victims being
often sex workers. People get much less interested when they're
not more to stereotype white and blonde and twenty three
years old.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Yeah. Yeah, that's like. I don't know enough about that
case with the other the officers that picked up the person,
but that's where my mind immediately went. Is probably why
he was like, I'm not saying anything because he was
really quick.

Speaker 7 (01:17:42):
Before a commercial that victim I told you about, Ray
the suspect actually talked to her husband sitting under on
the beach.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (01:17:52):
Listen stay tuned where we have more coming up. This
is true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. See you in a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We'll retalk
true crime all the time. I'm Courtney Armstrong, so lucky
to be here with Body move In and with producer
Taha and with Sam and Adam in the control room
controlling everything. On this talk back Tuesday. They get a
little drunk with power, right Body A little bit, A
little bit, Yeah, I know. Listen. If you've missed any

(01:18:34):
part of the show, you can always catch us in
the podcast. We'd love to hear from you, So call
us eight at eight three one Crime or get with
us on socials. We are at True Crime Tonight's show
on TikTok and Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook,
and let's head right back into a talk back.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
High ladies.

Speaker 23 (01:18:54):
Leair in Australia. I've just finished watching the new Netflix
documentary Perfect Nigh, about the woman in Florida who killed
her neighbor and the standard ground Laws. Possibly one of
the most heart wrenching, heartbreaking documentaries I think I've ever seen,
but I think it would definitely be a good true

(01:19:16):
crime and chill for the next couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
Thanks.

Speaker 7 (01:19:20):
I have to tell you I want Indy and I
watched this this weekend and it's it's told there's no narration. Oh,
it is so interesting. It's all body cam footage. Oh wow,
it's wow because it starts out and going to just listen.
It starts out with like a Karen Neighbor kind of person.

(01:19:41):
She keeps calling the cops on the kids playing in
front of her house kind of thing. They're making too
much noise, They're making too much noise. That's how it
starts out. And the entire documentary is just the series
of calls that she's making until the culmination at the end.
It is so it's very short. It's like an hour
and hand. So it's so me too. I was like

(01:20:03):
Indy and I watched it. We were like, oh my.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
God, it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Wow, Like it's a very intense. It sounds yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:20:12):
It's very it's very obviously, very real because it's all
body cam footage, right, And the kids in this documentary
are just like the sweetest things.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
In the world.

Speaker 7 (01:20:23):
I mean, they're so cute. In one instance, the Karen
neighbor accuses the kids of like getting in her car
and driving it around, and this little girl goes she's
talking to the cop and she goes I'm only eleven.
You know, if they're adorable, you know, it's it's it's
such a good documentary, and then you know it culminates.

(01:20:45):
I don't want to give too much way, but it's
it's kind of a story about staying the ground. Oh okay,
And it's very interesting, and it's very current, it's very topical,
it's very and I'm dying to talk about it. I
haven't talked about it because I was hoping that we
would pick this for True Crime and childcause I want
to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
So well, all right, I'm going to make the decision
for all of us. I think this should be the
one because.

Speaker 7 (01:21:09):
Haha is the boss.

Speaker 8 (01:21:11):
Oh.

Speaker 11 (01:21:11):
I wouldn't go that far, but I think in this instance,
because initially the plan had been I was like Stephanie, tonight,
let's decide which one we're going to go with.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
And we've got some options. But for the sake of
time and because now I'm so intrigued, so good, let's
just make this the one. I think that's the official
one we're going to go with.

Speaker 7 (01:21:28):
It's also heartbreaking, so keep that in mind. It's heartbreaking
because you literally fall in love with these people.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Does that work for you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
I am all in body your reaction, Leah, you should
have seen body sort of both light up and grab
and clutch her heart and it was at the range
of every human emotion. So that I am all in,
And especially when you said all body cam footage, which
is very hard for me to picture. But I'm incredibly excited.

Speaker 7 (01:21:58):
You wouldn't think You wouldn't think that watching a documentary
and it's literally all body cam footage would tell a story.
But so I don't know how they did it. It's
like the perfect storm of storytelling because it's all very
real right right. And by the way, the cops in
this documentary are so nice. I was like, who are

(01:22:19):
these cops? Where do they live? Like I don't have
those kind of cops, right, But they are. It's really, really,
really good, And I'm so excited that we're going to
do this for True Cremon chill this week, So.

Speaker 3 (01:22:30):
Done so as a reminder title and where it's streaming from.

Speaker 7 (01:22:33):
Okay, So for True crime and Chill this week, we're
going to watch The Perfect Neighbor and it's on Netflix.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Netflix got it?

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Okay, And once again, Netflix, you should be sponsoring us.
But I'm very excited. Especially the ninety minute sounds awesome
as well.

Speaker 7 (01:22:52):
Yeah, it's really short. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't
believe how quick it was. So yeah, no, it's fine,
it's fine, it's great, It's absolutely great. So please, Okay,
so when are we going to do it? When when
do people have to watch it?

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
By it? Well, let's see, because normally we do it
on Wednesday or Thursday, not enough time, and also this
is leading up to Halloween, so we'll have to hold
off on that. I would say we'll make it either
next Wednesday Thursday. We'll unpack it perfect, We'll give ourselves
a whole week to watch it.

Speaker 7 (01:23:22):
Wait, I'm so glad that she got to watch it
all the way in Australia. I know you get to
see our crazy Americans being insane, like you guys, are
you guys? You guys are going to be enraged. I'm
telling you really, I know you both and how you are.
You're gonna be furious.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
I guess I cannot wait. Okay, I'm on the edge
of my seat. When you said body came alone, that's
told me as well. But this this feels like, Yeah,
I think it's a perfect one. I think Stephanie will
be on board, so we'll just text her and tell me.

Speaker 7 (01:23:52):
I think Stephanie will love it. Yeah, Okay, it's really
short so it won't take up a lot of time.

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
Can I just say I'd love how much our audience
gives such great suggest and they're so we have like
a really bright.

Speaker 7 (01:24:03):
I just feel like they're ed.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
It's the show from every hemisphere. What's the next? Talk back?

Speaker 13 (01:24:14):
Hey, y'all.

Speaker 14 (01:24:14):
Step from Bama. So I'm listening to last night's show
The Crime Lab with our awesome Joseph Scott Morgan, and
he was talking about when he was in the More
and he was having to roll the body over and
the body exhaled that air, that trap air was coming out.
So I have a story similar to that. So I

(01:24:37):
used to work on the ambulance. I ran Primary nine
on one for our county. I responded to a head
on collision. Unfortunately neither drivers made it. But as Niemen
one responders, we have to still retrieve cardiac strips that
show that they are a sisterly or so they're flatline right.

(01:24:58):
So this one unfortunate person, I was having to cut
the seatbelt and shifts the body a little bit to
be able to get one of the pads the leaves
onto the skin on the chest and when I rolled
the arm forward a little bit, all of a sudden,

(01:25:18):
I hear and I know I'm supposed to be professional,
and good on Joseph Scott Morgan for keeping his fool
because I screamed. I thought this person had come back
to life on me. I thought it was a zombie apocalypse.
It scared me to death. My partner had been in
this field for twenty something years at this point, and

(01:25:40):
he just looks at me and he laughs and he
goes first time huh. So anyway, I thought it was funny.
I had to share it. You know, it is nerve racking,
and kudos to Joseph for being able to keep this
cool though. Anyways, I love Crime Lab. Definitely need to
keep this going.

Speaker 7 (01:25:58):
Yeah, I didn't know that that happened. I knew that,
I knew that in some cases the body would like
expel fluids or you know what now, but I didn't
know there was air that needed to kind of come
out in that when the air escaped. This is what
Joseph explained on Crime Lab this week. Which is kind

(01:26:20):
of like a new series we're going to start doing
where you know, Joseph's a professor in college and he
teaches this stuff, so we thought it would be kind
of fun to have Professor Joseph crime lab and teach
Us Layman's some forensic stuff about death investigation. And the
first subject of crime Lab was determining time of death.
So stay tuned for what we're going to be doing next.

(01:26:43):
But he was talking about the origin of boo and
apparently back in the olden days, it comes from this
air that's escaping your lungs when you pass and pressure
is applied or a movement in the case of the
talk back, and yeah, when when the air escapes, it

(01:27:05):
kind of sounds like this.

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
That scared just when you told that story. I really
like the story delivered it, but just the thought of like,
first of all, I would be the first one running
down that hallway screen and kudos to anybody who's in
the medical profession that can handle and deal with these
but yes.

Speaker 7 (01:27:25):
And don't feel so bad. I think I would kind
of scream too, you know, I would be a professional
and respectful. You still get scared, You're still yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
And also stuff from Alabama. You know, high five to you,
you said, high five for Joseph for not screaming. High
five to you for what you do. That is such
an important pivotal part of our literal society is.

Speaker 7 (01:27:51):
Isn't it like a first Responders Day or something?

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
Yes, that's right, Oh my.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
God, yes, I forgot about that.

Speaker 7 (01:28:01):
The first Responder's Day to everyone and especially to you
Step Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
Seriously, good memory and a perfect talk back for today.
So that could have been Adam. Did you know that
first responding?

Speaker 7 (01:28:21):
No, I mean it's a big deal. First responders are like,
it's so important.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
They make our world go around.

Speaker 7 (01:28:29):
Like, okay, it's Vegas, it's October first, the shooting, the
mass shooting that happened here, and bullets are literally raining
down from the Mandalay Bay and the first responders are
running two people, do you know what I mean? The
buildings nine to eleven, you know they're coming. First responders

(01:28:51):
are running up the stairs like they're the literal heroes
of They need a whole they need a whole month.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
I agree, not just a day.

Speaker 7 (01:29:01):
And you know, happy First Responders Day and we really
really really appreciate you all. Like I think about I
think about that because my brother was at that concert,
and I think about that all the time because you know,
there's footage, you know, and you know these people are
like running to help, they're running away, and the first

(01:29:22):
responders are running two. Right, it's crazy, crazy because it
goes against every instinct.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Right, Yeah, I mean you use the word heroes, and
they are literal superheroes. When I I went to a
Mets game a while ago, two months ago, when ed
I was indeed going to see my family in Paris, yeah, exactly.
But it was First Responders Day and it was so

(01:29:49):
amazing because a lot of the first responders they had
on sort of their you know, shirts or badges, there's
certain things, and it was so many jobs that I
had never conceived of, like in the fire department, but
heavy demolition, like think how much and how quickly you
need to be moving buildings to get people out, or

(01:30:12):
just all of these urgent, important jobs that people do,
right wow. Yeah, it was just it was eye opening
to see all of the different pieces. I'm actually getting
teared up thinking about it now, that people do for
a living for us.

Speaker 7 (01:30:28):
Yeah, well you know, EMTs. I can't remember what I
was doing It was something for that Vice TV show
that I did, the Resolved TV show, and I had
to research EMTs and I interviewed a couple and their
work schedule is insane.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
They work like fourteen hours.

Speaker 7 (01:30:48):
They get paid. They get paid like very yes, by
the way, and they're like they're totally saving lives and
like their whole job is to get you stable enough
just to transport you to the hospital so that doctors
can fix you. But they you know, they do all
the triage. You know, literally why bullets are flying, and
they're like just you know, and oh, I when I

(01:31:10):
was doing these interviews with these EMTs, I like you, Courtney,
I got like emotional about it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
Was sure, how are you?

Speaker 7 (01:31:16):
How are you doing this? Like a lot of them,
not a lot, but many of them had like mental
health products and yeah, because their home life is falling
apart because they're never home and then they're out at
night driving around saving lives.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
For fourteen hours night. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:31:36):
And it was very very very interesting. And remember what
I was doing, I don't remember. We did so many
weird things.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Well first responders, we again, just thank you, thank you. Yeah,
what'd say? Yeah, let's let's get one market.

Speaker 3 (01:31:52):
We have one more, and this one is from someone
we all know well. Feels like she was left out
yesterday when we were talking about our favorite Halloween movies.
So let's let's go to that one.

Speaker 18 (01:32:03):
Hi, guys, this is Ava again, and I just want
to say that I agree with body that to me,
for movies that don't have a supernatural element and are
real people doing real horrible things are so much scarier
to me than horror movies that involved like ghosts or
Vemon's or whatever, because you know it could really happen
to you. So I was just wondering if you guys

(01:32:24):
are more scared of like supernatural scary movies or real
life scared.

Speaker 3 (01:32:29):
Ah. That's Ava, our producer here on our show.

Speaker 7 (01:32:34):
Feeling little.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
You're never left out, man.

Speaker 7 (01:32:37):
You are the like pillars spoke in the wed It's
literally the spoke in the land.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
For me. Definitely real people. I mean the creep next
door who doesn't look like a creep is this way
scarier than any monster you're gonna throw at me.

Speaker 7 (01:32:54):
I would say the same, Courtney, but I have to
tell you I'm also really scared of alien movies. I
am so scared of alien movies, any kind, It doesn't
matter what kind, any kind of alien movie, I'm terrified.
Close Encounters are the third kind. When I was a
little girl, doom doo doo doo doo. Yeah, yeah, I

(01:33:14):
was so scared.

Speaker 12 (01:33:16):
E T.

Speaker 7 (01:33:16):
I loved ET. That was so wholesome, and my brothers
initials are ET. We called it MET. I loved ET,
but Close Encounters terrified me, and all the subsequent alien
movies that have come out since absolutely frightened.

Speaker 3 (01:33:30):
I love it. Oh, scary, Mine is supernatural. But I'll
tell you about it why when we talk tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
So okay, I'm old you too. And also tomorrow we're
going to have journalists Paige Stockton, who's going to join
us to discuss the Gods that Misfits murder trial. Yeah,
so that's going to be a really interesting unpack. So listen,
have a beautiful night. Thank you for being with us
this night, and until tomorrow, be safe and be good
or be good at it.

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