Verdict in Sonya Massey Trial, the ‘God’s Misfit’ Murders, and Michael Myers Copycats

Breaking down the verdict in the Sonya Massey case and the urgent search for missing 9-year-old Melodee Buzzard. Journalist Paige Stockton joins us to unpack the Kansas “God’s Misfits” murders, while casting director and pop culture expert Doron Ofir dives into the real-life crimes inspired by Halloween and the eerie Poltergeist curse. Plus, producer Ava shares the haunting, unsolved mystery of Henry McCabe. Tune in for all the details. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Tuesday, October twenty ninth, and yes,
we have a stacked night of headlines. First and foremost,
where is Melody Buzzard? She is nine years old. She
has been missing for weeks. Her mother was the last
person to be seen with her on a road trip

(00:42):
and is not cooperating with authorities. Why we need answers
and have a very serious update. Also, ex Deputy Sean Grayson,
which we discussed the other night, has been convicted of
second degree murder in the murder of Sonia Mason in
her home. He's a police officer that should have used

(01:04):
a taser or something de escalating and shows to murder
her instead. We've all seen this video and it is
it's beyond measure, frankly. And then plus we have journalist
Paige Stockton with us. She's been following this case that
we're all slightly obsessed with, called the Gods misfits murders.

(01:25):
If you haven't heard of this, It's about this custody
to dispute and two beautiful souls have lost their lives
and it is a tangled web. And we have the
journalist who has been following it since day one. Plus
later in the show, we have Dorano Fear, our pop
culture expert, back with us at last.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
He's going to tell us.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
A little bit about Halloween in general, but maybe more significantly,
the history of the film Halloween and some cases that
have been inspired by it, which is both scary and
riveting all at the same time. And if we have
enough time, we're also going to get to Poltergeist, which
you know we have all named as one of the

(02:06):
scariest movies of all time, terrifying.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
I'm Stephan.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
And I get to be here with my true crime
mates Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and of course
we have Taha, Sam and Adam with us in the house.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
I was out last night. I had some tech stuff.
It was so super stressful, but boy, you guys held
on the fort. I heard a lot of Trader Joe's
tips went down and I am inspired and Courtney to
get me off my anxiety. Hill sent me some tortilla
chips today because she knows me too well via Amazon

(02:44):
to a different state. And I'm so happy to be
with you, guys.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
We're happy to have you back, babies. We were just
not the same without you.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh you're just fine. The show is perfect and wonderful
and I just missed you guys. So anybody listen, we
want to hear from you. Eight eight eight three one crime.
Please join us. It brings us so much joy. And
then also, of course you could always leave us a
talk back on the iHeartRadio app or.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Hit us up on our socials.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
But listen, we have a lot to get to tonight,
So let's start with this case that is breaking all
of our hearts. Nine year old Melanie Buzzard. If you
haven't seen her photograph, I encourage you to look. She
is arguably the most beautiful little nine years she's ever
seen in your life, with the brown, curly hair, smiles
for miles, and she has been missing in scrupulous circumstances.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Is it inscrupulous? Unscrupulous?

Speaker 2 (03:41):
I know it's I believe, Yeah, terrifying, let's call it that,
And we need some answers. And it's shocking to me
that mom has stopped cooperating with law enforcement. So body,
I know this is so close to your heart. Yeah,
this is a really really sad story.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
So warning. So her name is Melody Buzzard and it's
spelled m E l.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
O d ee.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
If you want to do a quick Google search so
you can pull up her picture and get familiar with
her face. Time is of the essence, you know, and
it's important to know what she looks like. So she's
a nine year old girl. She's from Vandenberg Village, California,
which is just outside Lompoc, which is just north of
Santa Barbara, if you're familiar with California. Well, she was

(04:29):
reported missing on October fourteenth after a school administrator reported
her prolonged absence from school. Authorities are actively searching for her,
and the FBI is in assisting with this investigation. But
it doesn't it doesn't. That's not where it ends, that's
not even where it remotely even begins. Even it's a

(04:49):
very kind of convoluted story. I'm gonna do the best
to tell it as quickly as possible. So Melody, Melody's mother.
Her name is Ashley Buzzard and and Ashley Buzzard rented
a car from Lompoc and the police have just released
some surveillance footage. And in the surveillance footage renting this

(05:10):
car on October seventh, Melody is wearing a disguise. And
you know, Melody's got like this beautiful curly hair, and
in this disguise that she's wearing, she's wearing like a
long black wig and very very straight. Yes, that's thank you,
that's important, like a straight black wig. And then on
top of that, she's got like a hoodie up over

(05:31):
her head. But the authorities are saying that is Melody Buzzard. Again,
she's nine years old and she's missing. Well, on October seventh,
she rented this car, her mom rented this car, this
white Malibu, and drove it all the way from California
to Nebraska. And then on October tenth, was the tenth,

(05:52):
came home from Nebraska, and then on the fourteenth, she
was reported missing. Cops go knock on the door and
Melody's mother, Ashley, is not cooperating with the police. She's
not giving them any verifiable information on where Melody is located.
You know, they told melodies mom, Ashley again. Her name

(06:12):
is Ashley Buzzard, Mom who's forty years old. By the way,
they told her on the twenty second of August. I'm sorry,
August October, which is what seven days ago. You have
seventy two hours to let us know and you know,
provide verifiable proof of where your daughter is, and that
time has come and gone and there has been no arrest.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
And by the way, keep in mind, so mom gets
in a car with her daughter in disguise, which is
very clear, and she's in disguise at the beginning of
the trip. So even as they're leaving home to go
on this weird, you know, car trip to Arkansas for
no reason Nebraska. Rather, they don't really know why this
trip was a trip and what was in Nebraska, what

(06:55):
was the destination? And then Mom comes home by herself. So,
you know, Melody's in school, she's nine years old. She's
in school. It's kind of a homeschool scenario where she
has to check in with the school pretty regularly. Obviously,
she does not check in, and the school really kind
of rattles the alarm, as they should, thankfully. So Mom

(07:19):
comes back without her daughter and law enforcement would like
to know where's your daughter, And she's not given it up,
which is unbelievable. And even mom's parents mother specifically, and
the paternal parents, they all want answers. It's also important
to note dad lost his life in a motorcycle accident

(07:42):
years prior, so this is a single mom with allegedly
some mental issues, and there's both sides.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Both sides of the family kind of speak to mom's
mental state. So the dad who passed away, Melody's father,
he died in a motorcycle accident when Melody was only
like six months old, and he had another daughter who's
a lot older, and his daughter, who is also of course,
Melody's half sister, said that Ashley the mom kind of

(08:16):
started maybe not doing so hot after dad died, and
Melody's Melody's mom, Ashley again, Ashley's mom, said that she
got a call from CPS a few years ago saying
that they were going to be taking taking Melody from
the home to the state of the home, and she

(08:38):
said it was just really a mess and there was
like rotting food, and you know, they were she was
giving her child rotting food to eat, oh dear, And
so obviously obviously there's something like kind of wrong, and
both sides of the family are saying that they haven't. Basically,
Ashley cut off communication with everyone in the family and

(08:59):
none of them have seen their granddaughter or niece or
half sister for years.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
Good grief, Well this is true, Creme. Tonight, we're on iHeartRadio.
I'm Courtney here with Buddy Movin and Stephanie Leidecker and
we're talking about the really disturbing case of missing nine
year old Melody Buzzard and trying to sort out what
is going on with this convoluted clay case. If you
have any thoughts on the case, we do want to

(09:28):
hear from you, give us a call. We're at eighty
eight to three to one crime.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
So body, this trip, the drive took about.

Speaker 5 (09:37):
Twenty hours, I think if you go southern California, So
the turnaround was only three days.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, seventh through the tenth. So she left on the
seventh to drive to Nebraska, and then when she came
home it was the tenth and then the of course,
the authorities were alerted on the fourteenth.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, So it was a destination in mind and there
was a disguise. Both mom and daughter were kind of disguised.
But you know, again Melody was like this big beautiful
hair almost you have to see the photo to really
appreciate her really beautiful locks. So the fact that she's
in a wig, in a disguise, you know, it's red

(10:24):
flag galore. And I think all of our Spidey senses
are just nauseated because it has some crossover. We remember
Laurie Vallo taught, you know, the mother who was cult
mom who everybody was looking for her two beautiful children,
and you know she was really you know, not giving

(10:44):
any inferi flint.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
She was solved. It was a maddening mad there. It
didn't seem to be any legal recourse.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
And in this case as well, it seems as though
there have been some boundaries given by law enforcement about
an impending but that doesn't seem to have happened well.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
And law enforcement has said that the non arrest of Ashley,
which seems crazy in common sense, which is sometimes different
from the law, but law enforcement is saying there is
a lack of clear criminal evidence at this stage. Right,
so body had pontificated before we started the show. Perhaps
a judge is you know, a little reticent to sign

(11:26):
the order to allow the arrest to go through if
there's not enough to back it up, which can then
ultimately ruin an investigation.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
But right, but I do think that there's some probable
cause to search for, you know, search moms electronics and
see who she was talking to in Nebraska.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
I agree more.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
I mean, she had to have been talking to somebody like, hey,
I'm going to meet you, I'm coming out, you know,
even if we just spend a day together or you
know what I mean like something, But how do you
come home alone?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
And by the way, if your child is in your custody,
therefore you should have to explain where they are if
they are somewhat missing. This is a nine year old,
a perfect little human. So how is it possible that
that in and of itself isn't something to get arrested
for or to be brought into custody to be properly questioned.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
And you don't have to be arrested in order to
turn over your electronics either, right, Like, you can get
a search for I don't know that. Oh for sure,
they can get a search warrant easily if they have
enough evidence to suspect something happened electronically.

Speaker 6 (12:27):
They have.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
I mean, they don't need to arrest her. They can
go to her house, knock at our door, give her
a search warrant that they're taking her electronics.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
And there doesn't appear to be any real reason that
she was going to that destination. So there doesn't seem
to be any obvious family member or somebody in Melody's
life that would make sense that suddenly Mom feels like
this twenty hour road trip is reasonable or makes sense,
even though Melody was missing school in order to do it.

(12:56):
And why the disguise? So you know those elems? Mom
not cooperating her mother and you know her now deceased
x as an ex if it's you know she's a widow.
His family also wants answers. Law enforcement is involved, and

(13:17):
Melody's missing from school? Why the disguise, why the cross
country trip? And why did you come home alone? Number one?
And if your daughter is missing, why are you not
screaming from the rooftop? Please help me find her?

Speaker 7 (13:31):
Right?

Speaker 3 (13:31):
It has a little casey Anthony Topma, Well right.

Speaker 8 (13:36):
Oh god, when you mentioned the electronics, I'm just curious, like,
if they can get a search warrant for that, wouldn't
that be the first step, because now you can see
where she stopped for a few minutes or a long time.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
And they may have I mean we don't. They might
not just be sharing that with us. They may already
have done that. We don't know.

Speaker 9 (13:55):
Yah.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, because it's an open investigation, they're probably not. I mean,
they're not going to tell us what they're doing, you
know what I mean. Investigatively, I have in.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Every app following me right now I can find out
Postmates is literally Postmates is like crawling.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Through my window.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
How is it possible that anybody gets away with anything?
So we know that mom had a phone, We know
that she has some sort of a digital footprint, she
has some sort of a social footprint. Melody is a
very affable, loved little girl with family members who want answers.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
How do we not have any This seems implausible to me.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
Well, it might be. A body said that it's they're
keeping it close hold. I mean, since the FBI has
joined the investigation, we know that they are thank god
so adept and have just teams of the highest experts
working on this.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Yes, she crossed state lines and it's kidnapping. The FBI
automatically takes over from there. I mean, it's especially with
kidnapping across state lines, because this is possibly that you know,
I'm redicted to say this, but her her half sister,
her name is Karina Mezza, and she is the half
of the missing Melody, and she says, you know that

(15:05):
she's fearful that she could have been sold.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
If that was the first thing I thought, I didn't
want to say it, but the first thing I thought
when doing all of this deep dive. I my first
thought was Melody has been sold. And that is horrific.
That's a horrific thought. It is unfounded, by the way,
But hearing you say that, that's like as a dagger
in the heart.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
I know we're going to be well up on it.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, we will be following it.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
We'll keep you updated, and it's important to note the
sheriff hazards the public to avoid amateur investigations and report
factual tips directly to authorities. When we come back, we're
very excited. We have journalist Paige Stockton who's going to
fill us in on everything God's Misfits related. We have
a lot of Halloween stuff planned second hour.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
Keep it here at your Crime.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Tonight Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
We're talking true crime.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
All the time.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
I'm Stephanie Leidecker here, of course, with my mates Courtney
Armstrong and Body move In. I missed saying that last night,
so I'm like stomping on my chest as i say
it with my mates. And then we have another one
joining us right now, me docked In, the extraordinary journalist.
So she's been following this case called God's Misfits Murders,

(16:37):
which we've all been following as well, and we had
talked about this behind the scenes, and we're like, what
what happened.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
To that case?

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Because it is a wicked tale, and as we started
to talk about it, it went on to ten thousand tangents.
At its core, it's a story about custody of children
and two lives were law as a result of pure
murder in Mayhem and Paige, every time we were doing research,

(17:06):
Paige was the person who was like the journalist in
every article, like she was the one that was reporting
on it everywhere. So we're so happy, Paige, welcome to
the show. We're so glad that you're here. I honestly
wish under a lighter topic. But now that you are,
we know that we're getting this story at the source

(17:27):
because of your great work. And I'll stop talking so
you can kind of give us the layup. But this
is a tangled web and it's for the record. Just
at KT Studios, we made the piked In Massacre podcast
and we hope you'll listen if you haven't, we've done
many seasons of that as well as a documentary, the

(17:48):
Pie County Murders, and that too was this twisted tale
that allegedly at the core was custody which never added up,
like for the love of your childild really and this
case is no different.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Well, the God's Misfits they're you know, at their core
are like sovereign citizens and you believe children are property, right,
So the way they view it is a little different
than like us, right, right, don't you exact accurate? So
they see their children as a cult? Is it a
religious group?

Speaker 5 (18:24):
But well we should start from the beginning, I think,
because in the sovereign Yeah. So for people who don't
know what this God's Misfits case is about, are you
able to? I know it's a complicated, but give us
kind of lay in the land.

Speaker 10 (18:41):
Yeah, of course, so I started taking over this case
around August of twenty twenty four. Previously a reporter here
in Amarillo with new Channel ten. She had actually started
it from the beginning when they were missing, and she
moved on to another station. And so when I heard
that this kind of story was up for grabs is

(19:04):
the wrong word, but something that could be covered, I
immediately went to my director and said, I want to
cover this. And it was still so much in the
beginning stages of what this story ended up becoming, and
so kind of a short or long story short. There
are five people, Tiffany Adams, Paul Grice, Cora and Cole

(19:25):
Twombley and Tad Cullum. They were friends. They had kind
of gone to high school together. They had known each
other for many, many years, and they kind of all
came together and created this group called God's Misfits. And
what God's Misfits were is a kind of religious They

(19:48):
did not agree with a lot of the religious organizations
that they had in their town. We had kind of
talked to it about it previously, sovereign citizens. They they
believed that they they maybe not were above the law,
but didn't agree with a lot of the laws and
didn't think that they applied to them. And so they

(20:08):
created this group and it was not just the five
of them. It was actually a much larger group, about
ten to fifteen more people that were a part of this.
They were going to these and I can't remember the
name of the of the people that they were going
to see, but they were going and trying to go
through the process of becoming sovereign citizens. And during that

(20:33):
is obviously when Tiffany Adams was working through trying to
gain custody or take custody away from Veronica Butler and
so Wrangler. Her son was in rehab. They had custody,
but he was in rehab, so she had custody Tiffany
Adams did, and so this was just a kind of

(20:58):
custody dispute that they were working through and trying to
figure out. Tiffany Adams had kind of run out of
money to get through this, and so this is kind
of it all came down to this.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
So just to simplify, because you don's a good job
of this, So hei there's mom, mom and dad. They
split up, Dad goes to rehab, but they have a
child and that child is sort of what is up
for conversation? And when dad is in rehab, Dad's mom
steps in, right, that's Tiffany. So the paternal grandmother steps

(21:33):
in and she starts dealing with some of this custody stuff.

Speaker 10 (21:36):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
So now it's the paternal grandmother and mom of this
young child who are all dad's inhab and Dad's in rehab.
So they're starting to butt heads and mom is like,
I would like to see my child, and the grandmother
is like, well, you know, I think I'm in charge,
and so begins what seems like a feud.

Speaker 10 (21:56):
Yeah, and Veronica Butler had gotten her rights taken away,
so she was under purely supervised visitations, whether that be
with somebody that the courts or Tiffany Adams had kind
of approved through, or somebody that Veronica Butler brought along.
They also had to be approved by the courts, but

(22:18):
it was supervised visitation that Veronica Butler had to have
with her children. And that was why Jilly and Kelly
was also involved in this as well. She was just
an innocent and not saying that Veronica Butler wasn't, but
Gillian Kelly was just there to kind of be with

(22:39):
them during one of those supervised visitation days.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
Because dismissed the normal supervised the person that the person
that would normally did the supervision. Tiffany said, I don't
need you to show up.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
And Tiffy's grandma, right, So Grandma grandma.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
She calls Veronica and says, you can come, but you
got to bring your own, you know, supervisor.

Speaker 10 (23:02):
Yeah, and this was I mean a big tip.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
To the police that something went down.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
So then she brings a supervisor, meaning Mom does not
have the ability to see her child without a supervisor.
So she brings kind of the second person as a
supervisor to go on this road trip for her son's birthday,
and Grandma is giving her a hard time, saying, all right,
well you can come, but but and so this said

(23:30):
road trip kind of begins for this birthday party where
mom was going to finally have some visitation with her son.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 10 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was every Saturday she got
to visit with her children. And so, yeah, like you mentioned,
Tippany Adams had kind of waved away her own person
that she had brought into it and just was like,
you know what, you can bring your own and kind
of go from there. So it's a there's a lot
of moving parts of there is.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
You're doing a really good job so far. This is
true crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We're talking true crime
all the time. We're right in the middle of talking
about the God's Misfits. If you want to weigh and
give us a call eight at eight thirty one Crime. So, yeah,
So Jillian and Veronica they get in the car in
Kansas and they drive to Oklahoma, and they get to
Oklahoma and then and then guess what, something happens and

(24:24):
their car is abandoned. Okay, and then you know, Jillian's husband,
who is a pastor in Kansas, He's like, I can't
get hold with Jillian. I can't get hold of Jillian.
And Jillian's mom Jillian is the mom. No, Jillian is
the mom supervisor, the lady who is accompanying Veronica on
this trip to Oklahoma.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Veronica's mom, Jillian is a supervisor. Right, two moms and
women are on this like they disappeared a road trip
and like nobody hears from them.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Nobody hears from them, and it's kind of like the
middle of nowhere. I remember me and my friend Niho
going down Google Maps looking at where this where they
disappear from, and there's like no thing there. Yeah, nothing.
It's like a very rural place. And the yaps show
up and they find a hammer and I think eyeglass eyes.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Got right, right, if I'm remembering correctly, there were some eyeglasses.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
There were eyeglasses and a hammer, I think, and blood,
by the way. Blood. But the moms are gone and
the car is just sitting there, so obviously something has happened, right,
And that's kind of where, you know, they start looking
for them. And how long was the search for these two?
I can't remember. Do you remember?

Speaker 10 (25:35):
It was less than a week? It was? It was
just a few days because very quickly they kind of
got the four original so Tiffany, Tad, Cora, and Cole
they arrested pretty quickly after this happened, and then they
found them. I want to say it was less than

(25:56):
a week, less than okay.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
So I just went and got it. They disappeared on
March thirtieth, That's the day they vanished, and they were
their bodies were found on April fourteenth, and oh wow, okay,
so it was about two weeks. Yeah, okay, it's hard
to remember. It was a you know, a couple of
years ago.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, I mean they get found and suddenly they're found
in a refrigerator that's been buried.

Speaker 10 (26:21):
Yes, yes, I think that that was the hard part
was that they were where they were found was so
kind of secluded, and how they were buried and things
like that was so kind.

Speaker 6 (26:31):
Of out of the way.

Speaker 10 (26:33):
That that was the hard part was they knew kind
of who did it, but they didn't know that's what
it was. They knew kind of who did it, but
they didn't know where right, kind.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Of what happened, right, So it just so everybody knows too.
They were found buried, this freezer was buried right on
a private on property belonging to which was it Paul No,
Paul Greis didn't own the property, was a hole nobody
connected to them.

Speaker 10 (27:04):
Yes, it was one of Tad Colum's friends.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Okay, that's right.

Speaker 10 (27:08):
Yes, it was one of Tad Colum's friends that owned
the property who he actually gave testimony in the preliminary hearings.
He has sadly since passed away.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
Oh I didn't know that, Oh didn't So, yeah.

Speaker 10 (27:21):
The where the owner of the property where the bodies
were found, he has passed away since he gave testimony
in the preliminary hearings. But yeah, it was a friend
of Tad Colums or an acquaintance that he had worked
with previously, because they all worked with in like agriculture
and things like that. So yeah, he it was like

(27:42):
a friend or acquaintance of Tad Colums.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
And what goo ahead I was gonna say, So when
when these the bodies of these two women are found
again April fourteenth, two weeks after they disappeared in that
buried chest. So the land is rented by members of
the God's Misfits. The menu are just referring to can
you explain.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Who or what?

Speaker 5 (28:07):
I don't know the appropriate phrasing God's Misfits are.

Speaker 10 (28:12):
So God's Misfits is a religious and political I wouldn't
even say organization because it wasn't anything that they had
like put pen to paper or anything like that. It
was just a group of friends people who all had
the same political and religious ideologies. So they all believed

(28:32):
that the religions that they had around them were not
did not fit in what they believed. And then they
also in the political aspect, they believed themselves to want
to be sovereign citizens. A lot of them had started
going through the process of becoming sovereign citizens. So there's
paperwork and there's a lot of things that you have

(28:53):
to do to actually get through that. So they had
started going through that process.

Speaker 6 (28:57):
So this quote.

Speaker 10 (28:59):
Unquote organization was a political and religious ideology group where
they just met every Wednesday and Sunday. It was kind
of like a church group that would meet every Wednesday
and Sunday and they would just sit and talk about
religion and politics. Is I think the best way to
kind of describe what God's misfits was.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
I think that's a really good explanation. They're sovereign citizens
who also really believe in the qn on.

Speaker 10 (29:28):
Yes, but none of them had actually become sovereign citizens
at that point because they were working through the process
and apparently there's this long paperwork process that you have
to go to go through, but they were in the
process of becoming sovereign citizens. And then, like I said,
just like that religious ideologies.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, Paul Grice has a whole like kind of like
manifesto out there about why he's a sovereign citizen. It's
very interesting. If you ever want to do some What
is a sovereign citizen?

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I know the answer to, thank you, because we did
a lot with Native America and reservations where there's so
much trafficking and these don't get me started. But we
say sovereign citizen, and I just want to make sure
that our listeners are up to speed on exactly what
that means.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
It's it's a long it's probably a two segment answer
for that, honestly. But the members they adhere to the
Sovereign Citizen movement, which they deny the legitimacy of federal
and state laws and the authority of the government. They
think the United States government is a illegitimate company. They're
literally insane.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
So therefore they have their own set of laws, they
have their own set of law enforcement, and they enforce
their own law enforcement.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
There's no such things. They have noment of their own.
The Native American Indigenous sovereign stuff is so totally different
than what these people believe. They believe that they don't
have to have license plates, they don't have the authority
to be pulled over in moving vehicles. They only get,
you know, have to answer laws that are made and
Native I mean there do you remember Darryl Brooks, the

(31:03):
guys case.

Speaker 10 (31:05):
I want the guy he was.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
He's a sovereign citizen and he that in his case.
If you want to know about sovereign citizens, watch his trial.
He's you will understand the problem with sovereign citizens. They're illegitimate.
There's really no such thing. It's crazy. Well, say tuned.
We're going to continue this conversation because I got a
lot of questions for Paige. Keep it right here in
True Crime tonight, and don't forget give us a call

(31:27):
eighty eight thirty one Crime if you have questions.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Body Moven, Courtney Armstrong and
a very special guest. We have Page Stockton with us,
and she's been discussing this hideous case, these god misfits murders,
which is you know, at its core, I guess you know,
based on custody. But we were knee deep into it,

(31:51):
and Paige want to make sure that we give you
all the time possible to untangle this hideous web.

Speaker 10 (32:00):
Yeah, of course. So we left off kind of talking
about where they found the women in the freezers and
things like that, and so kind of hearing from preliminary trials.
You kind of hear them talking about the planning and
the setup of these murders and things like that. This
was something that was planned for months. Tiffany Adams asked

(32:23):
these people to be involved to help murder Veronica Butler,
and as Tiffany Adams, the grandmother of these two of
the children involved in this case, said, just kind of
collateral damage Jilly and Kelly and so, yeah, so we
go through the process of hearing about how they had

(32:44):
planned on like throwing an anvil out of the back
of a car.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
I forgot about Hill.

Speaker 10 (32:52):
Yeah, Paul, our Tad and Cora and Paul were all
going to get together on Veronica's birthday and throw an
anvil out of the back of a truck so that
it would land in Veronica Butler's car and she would
die that way. And they actually had Tiffany asked them
to practice. They didn't end up doing that because that

(33:14):
doesn't make any sense in the long run. But and
then Veronica Butler didn't go anywhere on her birthday, so
it didn't end up working out. So then they had
to kind of move over and that is where we
kind of end up with the plan of they were
going to have a cattle truck or a cattle where
you keep cattle and say, the kids are in there

(33:35):
with goats or I can't remember what the animal was.
Come in here and look and see your kids with
while they're coming to Gillian Kelly and Veronica Butler are
coming to pick up the kids. Hey, we have your
kids in the back of this cattle truck with these animals.
Come and look how cute blah blahlah blah, and Tad
Cullum and Paul Grice were going to be in the
back ready to attack. They investigators then found receipts of

(34:03):
buying stun guns and buying phones and different things like that,
and that is when they attacked these two women and
ultimately killed them. And then after all of those things happened,
it ended up showing all of the receipts there was.
The planning of this was not very good, but the
execution of putting them into the freezer and like hiding

(34:26):
them was very well thought out.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
So it was kind of.

Speaker 10 (34:29):
A crazy kind of way to do that. But yeah,
they ended up Paul Grice ended up murdering one of
the women, and that is kind of where we're at now,
is Cadculum is fighting saying I didn't kill anyone. I
didn't murder anyone. Paul actually killed both of these women.
I was just there And that is kind of how

(34:50):
Tad is fighting this. And then Cole.

Speaker 6 (34:55):
Didn't know.

Speaker 10 (34:56):
He only found out about this these murders in this
plan like a week before this was all going to happen.
He was not involved in a lot of that planning.
So I'm kind of jumping around to a lot of
different places.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
But do we know how do we know how these
women were killed? I know there was a bloody or
there was blood and a hammer?

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Was that? How are these women killed?

Speaker 10 (35:19):
So Kiffany, So Paul Gryce stabbed Veronica Butler nearly thirty
or so times. He tried to hit her with a
hammer and it broke, so he then had to attack
her and he stabbed her multiple times, ended up cutting
his own hand in that struggle in fight, so his

(35:43):
DNA was everywhere. And then how Paul describes it in
his preliminary trial was that he stabbed Veronica Butler thirty times.
He didn't know how many, but in the end the
any report showed it was about thirty times he put
her into the cattle truck him and Tad put her

(36:04):
into the cattle truck. He's saying, Gillian Kelly is in there,
and she's not moving, she's not breathing, and he's anxiety
and his adrenaline is pumping so hard. When they finally
get everything moved in and everything kind of going, he
turns around and sees Gillian Kelly there and sees what

(36:25):
he thinks is her eyes fluttering, and he thinks that
she's moving and that she's still alive. So Paul Greys
been stabbed Gillian Kelly about I think it was like
penned to twenty times to just make sure that she
was also dead. So both of these women died by stabbings.

(36:47):
Whether that is how Gillian Kelly was. The Ammy report
couldn't tell if she was already dead or if that
is what killed her. And that is kind of what
Tad is fighting because saying that Tad broke her neck.
Tad killed her, but nobody saw that. Nobody's saying that.
So when Paul stabbed her, it actually stubbed her spinal cord,

(37:11):
so they can't tell whether that killed her or what
ended up being her. The reason that she died, so.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
They can't tell how like the person that killed her,
because it could have been either one of them, just
locked them up immediately.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
It is unfathomable, Like my stomach hurts. I can't even
imagine you following it so closely for so long. It
reminds me of the piked In massacre, which it does
be followed so closely. A family committing a crime like this, again,
somebody that they knows so well, whether they like them
or not.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
This is the mother of a child that they love.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
What are we talking about? You know, people say, oh,
I'll do anything for my kid. Yeah, how about get
along with your family? How about get along with their mother?
How about like make this an inclusive, loving home. This
is insane, is yeah?

Speaker 10 (38:06):
And that was and that's kind of where so Cora
and Paul kind of immediately took plea deals. They immediately said,
the death penalty has always been on the table. It
has not been something that they have said we are
going to do until very recently. But the death penalty

(38:27):
has always because it's Oklahoma, Oklahoma, the death penalty is
there still very much a thing that happens here. And
so Paul obviously being the one that did stab both
of the women knew that he was not going to
be getting off. Cora, I don't know really, because she
just helped plan. She was a lookout. Her and Cole
were lookouts. She did end up coming to the scene

(38:50):
as opposed to Cole, who was not at the scene.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Ever, it was involved with any of them, Like what
was her? Why was she or married?

Speaker 4 (38:59):
Right?

Speaker 10 (38:59):
Yeah, yes, Cora and Cole are married. But Tiffany and Cora,
I believe. I don't think they went to high school together,
but they've known each other since high school. So all
of these people, I think maybe her and Tad went
to high school together, but they've all known each other
since like high school age. Paul Grice is actually much
younger than the rest of them.

Speaker 6 (39:20):
Yeah, he's in it.

Speaker 10 (39:24):
Yeah, and so yeah, and so Cora also took a
plea deal, and they both spoke at preliminary hearings. So
I was actually in the courtroom as Paul went through
his whole how how he stabbed them, what he did?
It was uh huh. I've been in the courtroom with

(39:46):
all five of them at the same time. They're they
because they're all doing these together. So Yeah, we actually
got to hear from Cora and Paul talking about the
days leading up to the murders, the day of the murder,
and then the following like the days following.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
The murder, and was there something unique about that experience too,
was it just business as usual?

Speaker 10 (40:10):
Well, Tiffany Adams had put it into whether this is true,
not true?

Speaker 6 (40:16):
This this is.

Speaker 10 (40:16):
Not something that they talk about very frequently. But Tiffany
Adams had said that there was physical and sexual abuse
of the children happening, and so that is why she
she told them all of the people in this group
that this is what is happening. These are why these
people need to die. And so that was kind of like, didn't.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
They say, didn't she say it was like Veronica's brother
or something that was like hurting the kids, But it
was unfounded.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Correct, it was Mom's brother. And that's why allegation was
that Mom now dead because she's been buried in a
refrigerator with her associate who's there to manage this custodial visit.
They're found in re refrigerators. Allegedly, Grandma is saying that

(41:05):
Mom's brother is sexually abusing the child, so therefore she
has to galvanize her her little weird religious group here.
That's like, you know, looking for sovereign time and sovereign
laws so that they couldn't take matters into their own
land and into their own hands rather and murder them
on behalf of the child and them not being abused

(41:28):
any further. Again, very piked in massacre vibes here very.

Speaker 7 (41:32):
And you hear.

Speaker 10 (41:33):
And one of the craziest things I think I've ever
heard in my entire life is Paul talking about him
being on top of Veronica Butler and him saying that
Tiffany Adams was just walking around them laughing in like
it's just like he said, it was the most evil thing,
The most evil thing he's ever heard, is what he said.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Meaning Mom was being killed. Sometimes it's so many names
it's hard to keep it straight. So Mom is being killed,
and then while Mom is being murdered, somebody's on top
of her literally murdering her, stabbing her with a hammer
and killing her with a hammer.

Speaker 10 (42:08):
Then Grandma knife, he was stabbing her.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
With a knife.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
And then Grandma is just walking around in a circle
having a giggle.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
And this is all the last interest. She's laughing because
she would.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Be a better candidate to be a parent to her grandchild.
So she's doing a circle like take that in, that's
so sick, so demented.

Speaker 6 (42:32):
Yeah I did not so yeah.

Speaker 10 (42:35):
So that's kind of where we're at now. Both Paul
and Cora have had have have agreed to plea deals.
I don't know if it's actually been set in stone yet.
As opposed to Tiffany Adams, Tiffany Adams pleaded no contest,
So that means that she is not saying that she
actually did murder. These are a part of that, but

(42:56):
she's taking responsibility for it. So she pled guilty to
none counts to murder conspiracy. I have to go back
and look it. So it's a bunch of different ones.
But she's pled no contest. So in her plea agreement
no death penalty, she does not have to testify in
any further proceedings. As opposed to Cora and Paul, they

(43:20):
their plea agreement is no death penalty, but you if
we need you for testimony, you have to come back.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Cora and Cole are married. So do we think that
Coora is going to testify against Cole or is she
going to invoke privilege for being married to him.

Speaker 10 (43:38):
Yeah, she's already invoked that marital privilege. So oh yeah,
I mean when we're talking, when we during preliminary hearings,
they would ask questions about what Cole knew, when he
knew it, and they were invoking the marital aspect of it,
saying that this was something.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
That they and when, and where is Wrangler, the beautiful
child at the center of this, who has grandma, who's
killing mom on allegedly his behalf.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Wrangler's the son of Tiffany, the dad of the two.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Kids, right that they have a son together, though, where
is that child? No, So the child that's in the
custage of dispute, meaning the child that's in the two
children that are in the custage of dispute, where are they?

Speaker 10 (44:23):
They are with Veronica's family, So that yeah, as far
as I know, they're with Veronica's family. The Veronica's family
and a lot of a lot of the family are
in the courtroom during every single preliminary anything.

Speaker 6 (44:43):
There are a lot of further.

Speaker 10 (44:44):
Proceedings, There are a lot of just kind of seeing
court documents things like that. So I tend to go, like,
we have another court date set for November fifth.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Wow, and then for further that's the final raiments for
Tad and Cole.

Speaker 10 (45:00):
Right, Yes, they're going to plead guilty, not guilty, or
no contest. And so if they do plead what that
is where that death penalty kind of came up. That
is where they said, hey, if they if they go
to trial and they lose the death penalty, we're going
for the death penalty.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
And then Paige, I have one last question, and we
have just less than a minute. Where is dad of
the two kids? I know he was in rehab. When
where is Wrangler?

Speaker 4 (45:31):
Do we know?

Speaker 10 (45:32):
I have not seen him in court. I have not
heard where he is or what he is doing. The
only the only family of any of the defendants I've
seen is Tad Cullum's mom. She's she is there most
of the time. And Tad Colum and Tiffany Adams had
the most. I think the rest just have public defenders.
They have actually paid for lawyers.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
So well, hopefully he's doing that. Hey, because he was
in rehab when all this went down, you know, yes, But.

Speaker 10 (46:02):
About mom, they they also talk about him talking about
them getting rid of her as well, though oh I
didn't know.

Speaker 9 (46:11):
I don't.

Speaker 10 (46:11):
I don't think he fully knew that this was going
to happen, but he they've they've talked about this before.
This has been a you know how you talk with
your family and you say stuff like that. But I
don't know if anybody knew that this was what it's
going to be.

Speaker 7 (46:25):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (46:26):
Well, listen, we will keep everyone updated and hopefully, paigde
you will be willing to come back and keep us
updated of what it's like in the courtroom. We can't
thank you enough for joining us and for your incredible
and consistent reporting on this complicated case. Anyone you can
find Paige Shockton's work at news Channel ten that's out
of Amarillo, Texas, and keep it here because coming up,

(46:49):
we have pop culture expert Dorono Fear True Crime Tonight. Bye, Paige,
Welcome to True Crime Tonight. We're on iHeartRadio and we
are talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
I'm Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 5 (47:12):
Lucky enough to be here with my buddy body move in,
as well as Stephanie Lydecker and of course producer Taha
and Sam and Adam in the control room. Listen, don't
forget if there's any part of the show that you missed.
You can always catch the podcast and we want to
hear from you, So give us a call eighty eight
three to one crime or get with us on socials.

(47:34):
We are at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and
Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook. We have a
lot coming up, but right now we are going to
go into a talkback.

Speaker 7 (47:46):
Hich you guess this is a call from Virginia. I
am listening to last night's episode and you guys are
talking about brogging. I believe it's called when someone is
living in crawl face of your house and you don't
know that they are there. I wanted to share a
story that I heard about someone who lives in my
area a few years ago. I heard about it on

(48:07):
the radio, and there was someone living in the crawl
space of someone's house and the only reason they found
them is because it was wintertime and their house was
cold and it wasn't getting warm. They had their heat on,
but their house.

Speaker 9 (48:23):
Was always cold, so.

Speaker 7 (48:24):
They called a repairman out to figure out what was
going on. Their house was cold because the person living
in the crawl space turned the air duvets to keep
themselves warm while they were living in.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
The crawl space and that's how they discovered.

Speaker 7 (48:40):
That living there. Truly bizarre, but yes, this is a
real thing. It's crazy and scary. Love you guys, love
the show byes so good.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
You missed it. We were talking about I know a
lot about dead in the Walls.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Oh you do?

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Okay, So I brought this up last night, don't we
read what? We were talking more cases about that than most. Wow,
because I think and Courtney both thought I was like
lying about it.

Speaker 4 (49:10):
I just didn't want it to be real.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
I tried to do a show called dead in the Wall,
did you believe? Yeah, yeah, like I'm really an expert
in that recently. Actually, oh my god, yeah, froggy, if.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
These walls could talk?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, because you have a dead peron, you have a
living person living in your wall.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Yes, yeah, it's the scariest.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
There's also a story about one that was like living
in the wall actually with the intention of being haunting,
like to pretend to be haunting a house.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
Scary.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
There was one lady who was hiding her boyfriend in
the attic from her husband, and.

Speaker 6 (49:45):
Yeah, like he.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Lived up there for a long talkings for days.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Yeah, oh scary. And this guy our talk back.

Speaker 5 (49:55):
That I that is so I mean, funny is the
word only the fact that he was like, no heat
for you, I'll yeah myself.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Oh, let me get myself all warmed up.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
It was freezing in here. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I needed to get somebody in the house to do
an investigation. And it's like, first of all, living in
your crawl space or in your wall, like the haunting one,
like it was actually in a wall, like they were
living in the wall.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah, I did see a video once. I guess
there was an Airbnb property where someone rented and then
there was like a secret hidden door where someone was
actually living in the property while they were like renting
it out. So anyway, so it's another similar case, but
you both have.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Speaking speaking of airbnbs.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
So it was after COVID, but not that long after
after and I went back east to see my family
and I rented kind of a big house and had
a bunch of people coming.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
Okay, so blah.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
So we're there and it was the woman we had,
the Airbnb woman. It was her first time running out
her beautiful property. You know, hello, hello, here's what we'll
be here. We get there and she has all, her,
her husband and her two kids, who I was very
surprised to see were there with all of this luggage.
They were like, oh, we were supposed to go abroad,

(51:22):
but because of COVID we can't. And so I, oh, exactly,
and they said, but don't you worry, We'll just stay downstairs.
You won't even know we're here. Cut to and I
do not exaggerate. We still talk about it to this day.
It was like an old, beautiful house with wooden floors,
but in the in the kitchen there was this one

(51:43):
sort of not like a hole in the wooden floor
where not would be. And more than one time, like
almost all of us saw just an eyeball looking up
like they were there, just like listening and watching.

Speaker 9 (51:56):
Oh that's horrible.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
It was excited to the next one.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
They no, I never know.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
We just eliminated them as friends.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
Well, no, they weren't friends. They were the family who
were supposed to not be there. I was renting an airbnb.
The family is supposed to be gone, and they have
to stay in the basement.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
The homeowners, the buddies came with their kids.

Speaker 5 (52:21):
Oh my god, no, the homeowners had to stay.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
Horrible, horrible anyway, but that eyeb altered the Can.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
We play it talk back anytime soon?

Speaker 9 (52:33):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah, we can do another talkback. Let's do that.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
What are yet y'all?

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Jeff Crocker from Newfoundland who also spent four summers in
Atlanta and call it my second home.

Speaker 11 (52:47):
Pimento cheese is my favorite coming back to Newfoundland and
not being able to barely find pimentos there's I have
a really good recipe I'll send you.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
And also you can freeze it fun.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
That's because of me. I love pimental cheese and they don't.
They don't sell the little glass jars anymore that I like,
And so let's play that and find out I asked
the question. Then I definitely would love to know that recipe.
If you could d m us, I would love it.
It's at True Crime Tonight's show on TikTok or Instagram
or True Crime Tonight on Facebook, because yeah, I want

(53:25):
that pimental recipe. I just love it so much. I
understand that there has been a verdict in the cop
killer case or not. I guess to kill a cop right.

Speaker 5 (53:37):
Yeah, So you're referring to Sean Grayson and he was
the Illinois deputy Uh, and he has been convicted of
second degree murder for the fatal shooting of Sonia Massy. Now,
Sonia was a black woman. She called nine to one
one from her house for help and Sean Gray was

(54:00):
one of the two responders who came and he ended
up killing her.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
So she called nine on one.

Speaker 5 (54:07):
This is back in July of twenty twenty four, and
she was afraid there might have been potentially an intruder
in her home in Springfield, Illinois, and then Sean Grayson
he came. Sonya Maycy was in her kitchen. There was
a pot of boiling water sort of near her. Sean Grayson,

(54:30):
who was now convicted, alleged that the alleged that Sonia
Maycy confronted him with this pot of water.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
And he ended up shooting her.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
So shooting at her, he could have de escalated it
and he shot her dead. Also worth noting, and by
the way, the show just kind of started. I didn't
even realize we were on and going.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
So here we are.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
But this is a really important decision and a really
important verdict because it does speak to the fact that
this particular police officer, who has a bit of a
checkered past, went into a home responding to a nine
to one to one call where she was basically saying
she felt there was a prowler amongst them, and somehow
in this exchange she shot dead and is murdered.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
And the partner, the cop.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Partner, also testifies that he didn't think that Sony was
a problem. He felt as though perhaps his partner, the officer,
was the problem, and in going down a rabbit hole
about his background, that appears to track.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
Right absolutely, And there was a particularly poignant moment I
thought when the Assistant States Attorney was speaking during closing
arguments and she said of Grayson, when you threaten to
shoot someone in the face and you do, that's first
degree murder. So yeah, Grayson again he got second degree murder.

(56:05):
But the checkered past Stephanie. It was really interesting because
Sonya Macy's family.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
This doesn't replace her.

Speaker 5 (56:14):
She is now killed and dead, but her family received
a ten million dollar settlement. And at the same time,
an Illinois law has changed, and that's to require more
transparency and law and law enforcement hiring. And this was
due to this case because in an investigation into Grayson,

(56:40):
first of all, the sheriff who hired him he promptly
retired early in the face of.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
What was going on with this, you know, all of
this publicity.

Speaker 5 (56:52):
And it turns out that Grayson had joined the army
in twenty fourteen. He left two years later for an
unspecified but quote serious offense. He also had pleaded guilty
twice to driving under the influence of alcohol, and a spokesperson, yeah, yeah,

(57:12):
a spokesperson for the Sagamun County sheriff said that the
sheriff's office did know about these DUIs. And finally, this
position was Grayson's sixth position in law enforcement in four years.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
So this guy's been moved around a lot. And think
about it.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
It's a tough call because I get really defensive of
law enforcement at times, because you're in these moment to
moment decision moments where you're out and about, sometimes in
dangerous areas, sometimes not putting your life on the line
to keep us all safe, Right, that's the theory. And
then you get a guy like this who's just rolling in,
throwing around some power, potentially taking the life of somebody

(57:53):
who clearly just needs help and has had a pass
that is completely checkered. And yes, how does that even happen,
and it puts a stain on all law enforcement in
that regard because these are not the times for that.

Speaker 5 (58:10):
Absolutely, And it turns out I was surprised to hear
how small the sentence might be. So had this be
had he been charged for first degree murder, that's forty
five years to life, but with the second degree, it's
four to twenty years in prison or potentially probation. And

(58:34):
the scheduling, Yeah, and the scheduling is going to be
the sentencing is going to be scheduled in January of
twenty twenty six. But that's really a tough pill to swallow.
That's small of a sentence.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Yeah, they're protesting about it because if there's no you know,
there's no jail time given, if probation is the answer,
then that's a real that's a real slap in the face, right,
That is that is anti the rules of law enforcements.
You know this they're supposed to be doing the good
thing and keeping people safe and yeah, it's a dangerous gig.

(59:10):
But you know, it doesn't appear that this was an example. Right.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Well, I mean, you know, there's there are there is
some good news though this law, right, but yes, that
that that has been added to the books. Is this
effective right now or do we have to wait? Like,
is it is? You know, it's active right now?

Speaker 5 (59:29):
The law was changed, is the information I have. We
can dig into it. But that's the information that I
have right now. So whether it's enacted or is something
official needs to happen, I'm not sure, but that is.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
I mean, this guy was a drunk driver. How many
drunk driving did he have?

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Four?

Speaker 5 (59:45):
I think, you know, two convicted, but six law enforcement
jobs in four years?

Speaker 3 (59:51):
That's what I was getting the four from.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
Okay, that's right, And.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Like can you imagine if any of us had two?

Speaker 4 (59:57):
You know, do you iyes?

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Like nobody's going to hire they could not allowed to
do that it let alone be a law enforcement officer. Again,
a lot of people take their jobs so seriously and
as they should. That is a badge of honor that
has to be respected. And this is not an example
of that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:16):
No, No, But you know what is an example is
Grayson's partner, Officer Farley, whose bodycam footage documented the incident,
and Farley also testified that it was in fact Grayson
who escalated this situation and not Sonia.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Yeah, he says that Farley, who's the other he was
the other deputy president, testified that Sonya did not act
threatening and act in a threatening way. He did, he
did not fire his weapon. He did not feel any
threat from her at all. Wow. I mean, I think
that took a lot of bravery. I think that took
a lot of bravery for him to do that. Yes,

(01:00:59):
it just gets stitches.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Not allowed to turn on your partner, your cop partner,
you know in the movies at least. So what a
major deal that he had the courage and the bravery
and the strength and the knowledge to know what is
happening to to really stand up and say this was
not right. That is that is what we need in
people who are looking out for us, right because like

(01:01:23):
typically this guy would be harassed when he goes back
to the station.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Right, No, that was done, But not this time right
now here right, times are changing, I think, right this
thin blue line is getting a little bit more erased,
a little bit in each conviction, I think. And my
hat is off to Officer Farley.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Absolutely, and also you know now and with the testimony
and also during the incident itself, when he went to
go and get first aid care for sonya may see.
And then Grayson, the one who has been convicted, said no,
don't worry about it. Let's let's not let's not get

(01:02:04):
first aid for this woman.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
So but was it?

Speaker 10 (01:02:07):
Was it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Let me ask though, I mean I don't know that
we know, but was it you know, there's she's not
she doesn't need first aid? Or was it she deceased? Yeah? Like,
I like, how was? I wonder how that was presented?
Like there's no way she's alive.

Speaker 5 (01:02:24):
That's fair, that's fair, get into it. I just you know,
the fact of the matter is she could have been
clearly deceased.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
I just because it is the bottom line. Also because
she wasn't given the proper care.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
But listen, coming up, doron O Fear is here. He
is a laugh a minute.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
He is bringing so many Halloween howls to us. So
keep it here to crime tonight, We're talking to crime
all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lydecker here with
my dance and mates, Courtney Armstrong and Body move in. Yes,
of course, Taha and Sam and Adam are here. Hands up,
everybody's having the little commercial break wiggle, and then we

(01:03:25):
finally have Dorono Fear, our pop culture expert back with us.
Seemingly perfect timing because you know, Deron's a bit of
a Halloween guy, and now that we are leading up
to the big event of Halloween, some people really get
really into it and some people study it, but Deron's
a little bit of both. So he's here to give

(01:03:46):
us a little background into the movie HALLOWEENLKL. You'll remember it.
It's so scary. He's inspired so much. It's actually one
of those scary movies that is so scary because you
don't see anything worry right. It's the idea of scary
more so than in others.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
And and if we have enough time, you're also gonna
He's promised me a little bit during the break, we
might run out of time to talk about Poltergeist because
that too has a little spooky bit of backstory happening
around it as well.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
So Doran, welcome back.

Speaker 9 (01:04:21):
Hi Yahllo. I'm so about to doing here, especially as
we lead up into Halloween weekend. And you know, I
am a horror movie fan and it's part of my
pop culture like legacy you know, meeting Elvirah Mistress of
the Dark was one of my big like you know,
claims to fame and then partnering into her brally comicon.
So that's an interesting example of like post trivia history.

(01:04:45):
But Halloween. So one of the reasons that I think
that Halloween is the seminal movie of all is because
it took the idea of the Boogeyman, and like Stephanie said,
it puts it in your head. He doesn't speak, he
doesn't run, He just appears silent, deadly and evil, and

(01:05:06):
that is Michael Myers. And with the setup with this
also goes into the psyche of a human brain, because
this was the really the movie and the story that
established that there's someone potentially in the house, that he's
in the house. And it took the concept that is
most vulnerable, which is when you're babysitting, So you're most

(01:05:28):
vulnerable taking care of somebody that is innocent, and this
is your responsibility to protect them, and here you are
being hunted. And in nineteen seventy eight, which is when
Halloween came out, it really did change everything. One it
actually made a star out of Jamie Lee Curtis and
you know, she's the original scream queen. And it also
set up the trope of what is considered the final Girl,

(01:05:50):
which is the last girl to survive in any horror movie.
And so with that said, Halloween has now become thirteen
movies in and the one thing we know for certain
is that on Halloween he always comes home. And so
it's happening this weekend, and this time not in Haddenfield, Illinois.

(01:06:11):
But it also is what's interesting about the history of
Halloween is that it was inspired by a true story,
one that is incredibly grim. And I give you a
little bit of a trigger warning before we begin, but
long before the movie, there was a real babysitter murder.
And in March of eighteenth of nineteen fifty. Think about
America at that time, Pleasantville, if you will, the sackhop

(01:06:35):
in Columbia, Missouri. A thirteen year old Janet Christman was
babysitting a little boy named Greg and she was there.
She came in, she brought her homework. She was going
to do her homework while Greg's parents were going out
to a card game and it was going to be
a late night for the Christmins and she stayed in

(01:06:55):
around ten thirty pm, the local police department received a
desperate call and the call was literally two words, and
it was a shrill scream, and it was come quick,
look and the phone went dead. Now, it wasn't long
enough for the police to be able to trace the call,
so it wasn't until the parents came home and they

(01:07:19):
and this was at one thirty in the morning, and
they found Janet's body. Her body was found next to
the phone. She had been beaten, she'd been unfortunately essayed.
She was strangled with the cord of an iron that
had been set up next to it, and her hands
were bruised and bloody because she had actually was fighting back.

(01:07:39):
She was not an innocent, dough eyed victim. She fought
with all her might. Unfortunately she was killed. And what
made the story even more terrifying was the fact that
there was no fourth entry and the police had that
at that point, believed that the killer either knew her
or had been watching her. There was evidence left behind,

(01:08:01):
but unfortunately, this is the time before DNA, so this
was a moment where America and the idea of suburban
peace was shattered because this was a child that was
killed while trying to protect other children and a man
had begun and the main suspect was a family friend

(01:08:22):
who happened to have been the next police officer. And
I know you guys are talking about this a little earlier.
His name was Robert Muehler was he failed a lie
detector test, but was never actually officially charged because the
case remains unsolved till this day, although he had been
convicted of an assault of another woman and that's how

(01:08:44):
they made the connection. So this is a moment where
a single night inspired one of America's darkest urban legends
and the concept of the babysitter and the man upstairs,
and that story eventually became an original concept obviously for Halloween.
That it also was in this concept for When the
Stranger Calls, which was another movie where there was a

(01:09:04):
babysitter on the phone rang and the person who was
breathing heavy was in the house. So on Halloween. It
makes you kind of wonder about these things because horror
invades your deepest fears and also allows you to process
them from a place of hope. You know that if
you encountered it, how would you deal with it moving forward?

(01:09:27):
And you know, I always talk about this kind of
pop culture thing where you know, movies can imitate real
life or argumentates real life, and it works both ways.
You know, we talked about, you know, the idea Ed
Dean and how that inspired Psycho and various other movies,
and I know you guys have been talking about that.
But Halloween also then tend to reverse effect and decades
later after you know, the movie had come out, you know,

(01:09:48):
all the way as early as the reboot in twenty twelve,
when Rob Zombie had remade Halloween. On Halloween Night in Georgetown, Texas,
Jason Moore dressed up as Michael Myers, and he didn't
do it just to go trick retreating, and he didn't
do it as cosplay. He literally broke into a man
home and he stabbed him repeatedly, and the victim survived shockingly.

(01:10:10):
But Moore told the police that he wanted to feel
what it was like to be Michael Myers, what it
would be like to have no empathy, that was, he
was just blank. And the police on that case also
had said the same thing. They had used the same
quote from the movie, which was his eyes were black
and saw nothing. And these are really sort of terrifying things.

(01:10:32):
Another strange connection from Halloween to the original Babysitter Murder
was that when they found poor Janet the record player,
she had been playing a record on over and over
again the forty five and it was skipping and that
record was was Mister Sandman by the Cherelle's, which was
then used in Halloween three as the constant sort of soundtrack. So,

(01:10:54):
you know, there's a lot of this sort of interconnection
which I think adds to the sort of chill herewuls
on your arm, you know, and he doesn't stop there
by the way, you know, like you know, in the
same year. Now, I'm going back to down twenty twelve.
So in twenty twelve, after the Georgetown killing of Jason Moore.
On that same year, in Alaedo, Texas, a seventeen year
old Jack Evans, he decided he was going to enter

(01:11:18):
the foray of the Halloween and he killed his mother
and his fifteen year old sister. And when he confessed,
he really confessed calmly, and he told the police, point blank,
very calm, that he had watched Halloween and that Rob
Zombie's remake was playing in his head over and over
and over again, and that he was fascinated by how
Michael Myers killed without emotion. He wanted to know what

(01:11:41):
it felt like. And these are really scary songs. They're
devoid of feeling, where we've lost feeling.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
So it's so weird.

Speaker 9 (01:11:53):
And he thoughts about the emptiness of these horrible crimes.

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
It's so over, it's so interesting. Yeah, what is it
like to feel nothing?

Speaker 4 (01:12:02):
Listen? This is true crimet tonight.

Speaker 5 (01:12:03):
If you have any questions for pop culture expert and
horror expert Doran OFEIR, please give us a call eight
eight eight three one crime. We're talking about Halloween and
all of its ramifications before and after the movies, and
I am covered in goose bimbles and Doran, you have
you have more to take us on more of it.

Speaker 9 (01:12:25):
I have two more stories about Halloween and then I
can go into Poultergeist, the Curse of Poultergeist.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
Oh that's what I'll do.

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
I'm all in, go.

Speaker 9 (01:12:36):
Ahead, Oh I'm going right into I hop yeah, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
No, we're on and needles.

Speaker 4 (01:12:42):
We're all sitting here.

Speaker 9 (01:12:43):
Like I was ready for a cool loss of water. Okay,
so you know it's okay, We're going in more so
years after so by the way, forty five years sentence
was given to the last killer that did that killed
the killed his mother and his daughter and his sister.
Oh Jake Evans received a forty five year sentence. This
was a conviction and then years later over the years

(01:13:05):
is the more so. Another teenager in South Carolina he
stabbed his father while wearing a Michael Myers mask, and
a group of students separately in Ohio were caught planning
a Halloween themed attack with knives and wearing the mask.
And they had went and purchased the original mask. Now
people don't know about the movie it was. The Mask
was a low budget film. So what they took was
they took a Captain Kirk mask from Star Trek from

(01:13:28):
Star Wars, from the Star Trek James Kirk, the Captain,
and they just sprayed it white way came the infamous mask,
which is the Michael Myers mask. That's what happens when
you have two dollars and a great you know, three
note piano play. That turned into one of the scariest
scenes in Halloween history, which, by the way, John Carpenter

(01:13:51):
played that on the piano and that's how you got
that theme song. So that's the Michael Myers and sort
of the legend of Halloween. And I think this is
the bigger question here is what happens when the concept
of scary movies becomes part of your daily life and
becomes the inspiration behind it. You know, it falls into
the same category of sort of video games, like does

(01:14:11):
video games.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
Make a killer and sanitizing?

Speaker 9 (01:14:16):
Well, the jury's out for me. I don't know, you know,
like this is one of those things where I want
to talk back, but the thought is, you know, how
much of this is truly connected? And I've gone into
it with Silence of the Lambs, I've gone into it with Scream,
I've gone into it with House and Sorority Row and
Black Christmas. You know there is something to this And
although it praised on our deep of fear, the question is,

(01:14:38):
at one point when does it become inspiration?

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
So tell us about Poultergeist favorite movie, and this is
not lighter, It's just different.

Speaker 9 (01:14:51):
This goes into the occult. And you know, the Poulter
Guys came out roughly around the same time you're talking
nineteen eighty two, and Poulter Guys changed the game because
it was done as a The story is that in
a pre planned neighborhood in beautiful California in the Valley,
you know, family moved in suburbia and it's a very
you know, basic, it's a nuclear family. It's you know,

(01:15:13):
three kids, mother and father. They move into what they
think is the planned community, brand new homes, everything's new,
you know. They want that, and what they don't know
is that they are in a scary, sort of doomed location,
which was at the time in the filming of the movie.
The story by Steven Spielberg, which was that it was
a burial ground in Indian indigenous burial ground. Well, a

(01:15:35):
couple of things that people didn't really tell the cast
when they got involved in this movie was that they
were going to have this incredible scene, which is towards
the end of the movie where they go into the
pool during a storm and the pool is not fully
built yet and all of these skeletons kind of come
up out of the you know, out of the muck.
Those skeletons were real skeletons. The bones were human bones,

(01:15:56):
and the production never told me.

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
About that, and they.

Speaker 9 (01:16:02):
Wanted it to be as authentic as possible, and it
wanted to feel, you know, plaster.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Yeah, so bodies were these skeletons.

Speaker 9 (01:16:11):
That's the question.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
This is exactly what we.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Were talking about. This is why I have worries about
organ donating and body front. Where are these skeletons coming from?
And why are we using I know for Steven Spielberg movie.
Did they did they sign off on this on their license?

Speaker 9 (01:16:29):
I doubt that the families ever knew about it. And
when Carrie Anne whispered.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
You know, he don't even get me, you were.

Speaker 9 (01:16:37):
And that's and that's a really horrible thing. And they
say that that launched to curse the Pulter guys, which
we don't know whether that's true or not. But I
don't know if you guys remember the tragedies that happened
off camera. And the oldest daughter in the movie was
an actress named Dominick Dunn, and she played the teenage daughter.
You know, she's the one if you remember the movie
and you're a fan of the movie. She's standing outside

(01:16:59):
the house when you have all of that lightning above
the house, and she screams, what's happening? You know, and
it's that moment where you're like, what is happening? You know,
that was her big starring moment for her. Her demise
happened immediately after the movie and she never actually got
to go to the premiere to that movie because she
was strangled to death by her stalker ex boyfriend. So

(01:17:19):
that was her demise. And in a really sad twist
of faith, the main star of the movie, who the
girl who played Heather or Rourke, who played carry Anne,
you know, who was the pretty blonde they get sort
of sucked into the ghost world. She passed away at
the age of twelve after the filming on Poltergeist too,
and they say that that kind of added to the

(01:17:43):
the legend, the urban legend of the curse.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
But it's an other woman too, like the one that
was sort of like the she kind of came into
channel the ghosts if I'm remembering her also.

Speaker 9 (01:17:56):
Yes, yeah, well she passed away recently and she didn't
end up living a life. But the Heather of Roarke
was real tragedy in Hollywood, and you know, decades later,
decades later, you know, the legend still lingers, and then
you can ask yourself, like, why does this fascination exist?
And if you really want to feel it, all the
real house, which is located at forty two to sixty

(01:18:18):
seven Roxbury Street in Simi Valley, California, is now an airbnb.

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (01:18:23):
For anyone who wants to feel it, now you know
where to feel it. Doroan, We thank you so much
for joining us always every time. It is the most
fun and everyone listened. You can follow Doroan at doronofearcasting
dot com or on his socials at doron. Oh fear cast,
that's Dorono fear Cast, not casting. Please come back very

(01:18:47):
soon and keep it here.

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
At your Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Welcome back to true Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
And body Move in and listen. We have Ava.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
She's our associate producer who you really don't get to
see enough, let alone hear enough. But during the day
she is hard at it, doing all the research, during
all the hard thinking. And she actually is a bit
of a scary storyteller apparently, because what I've been told
is that Ava is joining us now to tell us
a scary tale like no other.

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
That's all we know.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
Ava.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Normally we like to know everything. So first of all,
it's so good to see your beautiful face than Hello, Hello,
welcome to your show. And more importantly, we're so excited
to hear your spooky, scary story. I have a very
thin skin on the scary stuff, so Doron has officially
freaked me out.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
And now it's your turn.

Speaker 11 (01:19:56):
Okay, great, Well, I'm really excited to share this case
with you, guys, because I to do some deep digging
for this one, because I wanted to share one that
I don't think any of you knew about. And so
I'm going to set it up and then I'm gonna
have Sam and Adam play this voicemail because this voicemail
is what makes this case so interesting.

Speaker 6 (01:20:15):
But in order to really appreciate it, I'm going to
just set up the.

Speaker 9 (01:20:17):
Details a little bit.

Speaker 11 (01:20:18):
Okay, ready, this is what happened twenty fifteen.

Speaker 6 (01:20:22):
Henry McCabe.

Speaker 11 (01:20:23):
He was a thirty two year old Minnesota state auditor.
He was originally from Liberia, where he survived a civil war.

Speaker 6 (01:20:31):
He was a refugee.

Speaker 11 (01:20:32):
He moved to America. He started this new life, this
new family, had these high ambitions of it, maybe even
going back to Liberia and being a politician. So this
man mysteriously disappeared on September seventh, twenty fifteen, after a
night out with friends. The last trace of him was
a two minute voicemail captured on his brother's phone, filled

(01:20:53):
with i'll say distressing and indecipherable noises. We're going to
listen to it shortly. And his which was found nearly
two months after he went missing in a nearby lake,
showed no signs of trauma or foul play. And despite searches,
FBI analysis of the voicemail, and you know, now almost

(01:21:13):
a decade of investigation, the cause and manner of his
death officially remain open. The case is open. No one
knows what happened to him.

Speaker 4 (01:21:22):
Okay, okay, I have to hear the voicemail.

Speaker 11 (01:21:25):
I have to hear the mast Wait, okay, just real quick.
Once again, he's He's a normal thirty something year old man.
His wife and kids are in California visiting hurt the
mom's family. He's out with his friends. It's late, everyone's
been drinking, and.

Speaker 6 (01:21:41):
Someone who how close he was with this person is
kind of up for debate.

Speaker 11 (01:21:45):
This is the person that drove him to the bar,
is giving him the ride home, it's like late early
in the morning, and it's strange because Henry's like, I
don't want you to drive me home, drop me off
at this random gas station miles away from my house.

Speaker 6 (01:21:59):
And this guy's like, I can just drive you home.

Speaker 11 (01:22:02):
And he's like, no, I really want to get dropped
at this random gas station. So according to this guy,
he's begging and he finally gives in, and then this
is the last he's ever seen alive, dropped off by
this guy at a random gas station in the middle
of the night.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
Do we know that he was actually dropped off there?

Speaker 11 (01:22:18):
Yes, there is video surveillance of him getting dropped off
at a gas station, but interestingly, it is not the
gas station that this man originally told authorities he was
dropped off out. We don't know if this was a mistake,
like an honest mistake, or he was being intentional about it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
Can remind me when you're what your is this again?
Oh no, I'm so scared.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
The only thing not making me scared is the fact
that body is taking her makeup off.

Speaker 3 (01:22:50):
Is comforting. I'm not I'm just rubbing my eye. I've
got like something in it. I don't know what's going on.
I don't have any makeup on. It's the only thing
keeping me alive.

Speaker 6 (01:23:04):
After the voicemail, you're going to be really scared.

Speaker 4 (01:23:06):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:23:06):
So this, this voicemail must have happened.

Speaker 11 (01:23:09):
When he was at this gas station according to the
timeline of the night. So apparently he calls his wife.
I don't know if it's on purpose or if it's
a butt dial, and the wife, who's out of town,
tries to loop his brother in on this like three
way phone call. And because apparently she's like, some people

(01:23:29):
are like, why isn't she call the police? I think
maybe she was just like trying to see what's going on, Like,
let me see if I can get the brother on
the phone and he can help figure out what's going on.

Speaker 10 (01:23:38):
And the reason this.

Speaker 11 (01:23:38):
Voicemail got recorded is because the brother didn't answer, so
it left this as a voicemail on the brother phone.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
Guilty probably.

Speaker 6 (01:23:48):
Okay, are you guys ready to hear it?

Speaker 11 (01:23:51):
Ild a half minute long voicemail. I picked a one
minute clip. Pretty much the entire two and a half
minute sounds like this, but this is one minute of that.
Sam and Adam, I'm ready when you are.

Speaker 3 (01:24:12):
What I rebuke you. Okay, this is a demonic.

Speaker 9 (01:24:38):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
Oh no, I hainte this? This is so scary?

Speaker 4 (01:24:43):
Oh no, Eva, okay you.

Speaker 6 (01:24:50):
Wait?

Speaker 4 (01:24:50):
Is this real?

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
Are you an exorcism at this weird gas station back?

Speaker 4 (01:24:57):
It sounds like it sounds like an exorciseman.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
It's like an exorcism exactly. I feel scared and I
feel honted.

Speaker 6 (01:25:03):
It is crazy. At there's two and a half minutes
of this.

Speaker 11 (01:25:06):
I like I have to laugh or else I cry
because it's like, what could this possibly be? I actually
I remember heard this voicemail for the first time. My
friend showed this to me a couple of years ago.
She heard it on like crime junkie or something, and
I haven't stopped thinking about it.

Speaker 9 (01:25:21):
Actually, what just what did we just?

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
Was he in a a in a satanic cult? Was
he taken by vampires?

Speaker 8 (01:25:29):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
This sounds like a real.

Speaker 10 (01:25:31):
Cry for real transformation.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
For those listening at home, you probably you just heard
this voicemail. It it sounded just like it sounded crazy,
like it was garbly gook and it was it sounded
like a demon.

Speaker 8 (01:25:47):
Like screaming, or like his body's change or something.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
So scared, I like a little giggle can we go
back like a giggle day.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
And Joe's and they're.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Tips like, I'm so like, I don't love a satanic
overtake out.

Speaker 8 (01:26:10):
Oh yeah, that that one was a little scary for me.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
But wait, okay, so the smell us left. Then what happens?

Speaker 4 (01:26:17):
So it's in the morning.

Speaker 6 (01:26:19):
This is the thing, this is the thing.

Speaker 11 (01:26:21):
Then his body is found two months later, pausitive death, drowning,
no foul play, and that's only.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Not rowning, no foul play because.

Speaker 11 (01:26:31):
It's like, okay, aside from drowning, what was that?

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
Yes, I is it possible that he was drunk? That
swimming and then well listen, I mean when you're when
you're on drugs or you're drunk or whatever, things can
happen and people think they're superhuman and I'll just swim
across the lake.

Speaker 7 (01:26:49):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
Okay, did something like that happen? Maybe?

Speaker 5 (01:26:52):
Yo Eva, I am looking at your beautifully done research,
which has been hidden until this point.

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
I just got swoopy.

Speaker 5 (01:26:59):
The door did not classify this death as suspicious.

Speaker 8 (01:27:04):
So weird, and to your point by it, I wonder
if they did a solid test to see if they're
drugs in a system or something.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
The poor wife is my husband has been taken by
the demonic power? Is it is they on the They're
in the Poltergey's house. How is that possible?

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
They rented that Airbnb and they did a same exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
I don't believe in the devil, but I do believe
it in here that sounds so I think.

Speaker 12 (01:27:30):
Stephanie, Yes, that's crazy, isn't this I'm seeing here that
the FBI and the Minnesota Community Police they analyzed the
the voicemail, but there was no conclusive evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:27:43):
So no conclusive evidence.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Yeah, it's a suspicious gas station, right, so kind of
like tangential friend does the right thing, drives him home,
leaves him meta gas station. Maybe misremembers the gas station,
you know, Okay, let's go with that. Maybe they had
a cocktail which they not have been driving. And now
here we are, this guy suddenly gets into a tangle

(01:28:06):
with the underworld. It sounds like, and this is the
last we hear of him, and like, so this is
he's just considered a missing persons Like this is a
non suspicious death.

Speaker 11 (01:28:17):
Yeah, he's just missing for two months.

Speaker 6 (01:28:19):
I think there's a few two things that.

Speaker 11 (01:28:23):
Might help make this make a little more sense, which
it never has and never will. One is I looked
into kind of like, Okay, what were the leads, what
was the investigation?

Speaker 6 (01:28:31):
Who were the suspects?

Speaker 11 (01:28:33):
And it's really interesting because kind of everyone's story for
the most part added up, and there was like no
big alarm.

Speaker 6 (01:28:40):
Bells going off.

Speaker 11 (01:28:41):
There were a few minor leads that led nowhere, like
he could go in a couple different directions, like some
people look at the friends he was with, some people
look at the wife, like but nothing really was like
the big sing ding ding, And so I think investigators
just kind of we're completely at a loss at.

Speaker 6 (01:28:57):
Some point, and the other as expected.

Speaker 11 (01:29:00):
This was a thirty year old black man, an immigrant.
I think if this had happened to like John Benay Ramsey,
you know, much more.

Speaker 6 (01:29:09):
Of a situation.

Speaker 11 (01:29:11):
But I think a lot of people were kind of
just I think if this voicemail hadn't been publicized or left, like,
no one would have even thought twice about the fact
that this man showed up in a lake. You know,
not no one, but at least not us, you know,
the general public.

Speaker 9 (01:29:25):
But his family.

Speaker 11 (01:29:26):
But this voicemail is just so beyond insane that it's
like what we even.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
I mean, obviously there was a conversation with his wife
prior to the voicemail being recorded. Did she say anything
like he said anything to her?

Speaker 11 (01:29:41):
I don't think, you know, sources said it was a
butt dial, so I think that there wasn't even a conversation,
right right. I Some people have tried to kind of
make out because I cut out a little bit at
the beginning. There is muscled speech, but it's really really
hard to get a sense of what he's saying. Some

(01:30:01):
people have theories. Some people think he says I've been shot.
That's like something that some people hear, but personally I
didn't hear that. And there was no gunshot wound on
his body.

Speaker 4 (01:30:11):
So and he.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
Doesn't have a history of like excessive drug use. This
could be some sort of like fantastic drug moment where he's.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
Maybe he was drunk at the bar, maybe he got
drup that was his Was there any signs of robbery,
like did they find his wallet or anything?

Speaker 11 (01:30:29):
Do you know he were found with like a gold
his gold watch, his phone and everything like that. But
his friend did have the friend who dropped him off
or and another friend had his wallet and keys, which
some people.

Speaker 8 (01:30:42):
Thinksious, that's suspicious, Okay.

Speaker 11 (01:30:44):
They claimed that it's because he was so drunk at
the bar they were trying to prevent him from driving.

Speaker 4 (01:30:49):
I have one hundred keys, I have done I have.

Speaker 6 (01:30:54):
Oh you know, it depends who you believe.

Speaker 5 (01:30:57):
And I would take the wallet if maybe he was
out for an night and it's two am, and maybe
he wanted a little bit at the at the gas station, thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
How was he going to get home from the gas
off at a gas station without his wallet?

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
Wallet? Was going to walk? Did gas in? Nothing?

Speaker 8 (01:31:17):
Not the best friend.

Speaker 11 (01:31:19):
It's so confusing. Also another suspicious thing. There's a lot
of like many little clues that to me and apparently
to authorities don't connect and make no sense. But if
you guys are curious, definitely look it up. One of
them was he had his phone still in one pocket
and the body was found, but the phone's battery was
taken out and was in his other pocket.

Speaker 6 (01:31:39):
It was like, what was that all about?

Speaker 4 (01:31:41):
That's weird, weird little.

Speaker 3 (01:31:44):
Phone in one pocket and his battery in another.

Speaker 11 (01:31:47):
Yeah, he had taken out it was like an Android
and he had like taken out the phone. Battery or
someone had and it was in a different pocket from his.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
Phone beside herself, and just so scared and terrified, and
she's left a widow. This is a terrible tale, Eva
weighted best.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
You know, I'm a little upset. I'm not gonna lie
because this that voicemail. I don't scare very easily. Actually
yes I do, but we rely a little bit. But
that voicemail is how we're going to leave each other tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
Like I wanted to hear something positive where.

Speaker 4 (01:32:28):
I need something fun.

Speaker 3 (01:32:32):
I'm gonna think of a happy thought, something fun, uh.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
Scary candy, something positive.

Speaker 7 (01:32:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
I enjoyed watching the Salt Lake City Bravo uh late
last night when my course didn't work out and I
was so upset and frazzled, I watched Salt Lake City
on the on the boat.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
That is an episode?

Speaker 4 (01:32:53):
Is that real housewise.

Speaker 3 (01:32:54):
Quality reality TV? The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
If you know this, to disconnect from the world, go
ahead and watch see they got silly they got episode.
You know reality people should never go on a boat,
and so it's a recipe for a real show. And
so just fast forward to the episode that's out right
now and it might.

Speaker 3 (01:33:18):
Take the edge off.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
Okay, well that that feels better.

Speaker 3 (01:33:21):
That gives me something.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
I need some below deck person. By the way, it
was a supermash. They were on the below deck. Captain
Jason was there.

Speaker 9 (01:33:32):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 3 (01:33:36):
Really has gone a little left turn.

Speaker 4 (01:33:37):
But like so the girls they.

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
Were taking a little trip and they went on the
below deck boat. It was a crossover and at one
point the crew was like, what is happening right now?

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
And yeah, I'm like for them to say it, and
then captain was like, and like, you know that that
captain's kind of handsome, so you know they were, Yes,
that was a it was a little bit of a
a calming effect on me.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
So yeah, the Salt Lake City crew at sea check
it out.

Speaker 5 (01:34:06):
Yeah, and actually for either the next talkback Tuesday or
whenever you should call in, leave a talkback or a voicemail.

Speaker 4 (01:34:13):
And what do you do when you just need a
literal brain TJ. Hallett cleanser.

Speaker 5 (01:34:17):
Yeah, And just like whether it's below deck, whether it's
some quilting show, go to home goods.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
I think a scented candle and a new throw pillow
won't cure in my humble opinion, and Ava, we love
you so much. Great jobs scaring us to the Thank
you for traumatizing us. And listen, everybody. We'll be back tomorrow,
big show, lots of headlines to cover. We love you,
Stay safe, we will see you tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:34:44):
Good night, everybody.

Speaker 12 (01:34:45):
Night,