February 9, 2023 • 38 mins
Devin processes her recent breakup with Carolina’s help then dives into listeners’ breakup advice questions!
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Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow
and this is Devin Leary. Well, we've got a spicy,
spicy episode for you. Well, I'd like to take you
guys back to gosh April June question Mark, when we
first premiered this podcast, and I was coming fresh off
(00:49):
the tails of a breakup after a three year relationship.
It wasn't that was the real deal. That was the
real deal. I didn't mean to say it like this
one isn't no, but it was. It was coming. It
was also like two weeks. It was like so, I mean,
it wasn't two weeks, but it felt it was so
quickly at the beginning of the pandemic. It was like,
(01:10):
oh my god, like this is happening to you now
of all time. I don't know. It was a breakup.
It was l a being shut down with it. And
it was my thirtieth birthday in two weeks Folklore being released,
and and we can't forget that also Folklore being released,
which really put things over the top for me. No,
(01:31):
I um, I mean, we'll get to this later, but
I don't think that you should wait for a birthday
to pass to break up with someone I don't believe
in that. I don't believe in anything because right now, No,
I actually have been praying to God, like I mean, guys,
not to be dramatic, but I'm laughing because I love
(01:54):
that sentence. No, I actually have been praying to God recently.
Nothing because it's because I've been praying to my Lord
and say Savior Jesus Christ. And it's literally like at
one point, I was just telling Carolina that I like,
I texted this place. There's like a spot in my
old neighborhood that you can text for a massage. I
know that sounds shady, but like it's absolutely not. And
I texted them saying it's absolutely not. Makes it feel
(02:16):
even more shady. I know that'sound shady, but it's absolutely not.
I was walking down the street. I felt like I
was about to cry, and I texted this place and like,
do you have a massage? They're like yes, four pm.
And then I just like stared at the text and
I was like, am I able to get myself there?
I was like okay, um, realistically no, So I go, well,
I actually can't come today, thanks, and they're like okay,
(02:37):
what and then I'm like about to cry, about to cry,
but I was on my way to a friend of
the pod test sitsman's house because I had asked her,
can I just come over and sit on your couch
while you're doing your work zooms and she said yes,
And I was like, Okay, just don't cry till you
get to the corner. Don't cry till you get to
the corner. God, Hey, God, help me not cry from
this corner to the next corner, please, And so, yeah,
(02:59):
you could say that religion is really working for me.
And well, if if spoiler alert, if you haven't caught
on the clues, Devon just went for a break. I'm
doing really well. So the clues are to say that
I'm actually peaking. Everything's going really well. Nothing no notes,
(03:20):
no notes on on the God, to God, on the
quality of my life. No, I the quality of my
life is actually amazing. Despite yeah, despite that idea. It
sounds so like a monologue of a girl in a
bar right now talking about a break up. I know,
And it's so funny because I can't help but sound
like this, like I've been on phone calls. Yes, okay, yes,
(03:42):
people everybody's wondering I did I don't even know if
I got broken up with I went through a breakup
of which, and you know what, this is actually helpful
to the listeners because it's this is about how this
is about how life can always change and you never
know what you're gonna get. As Forrest Gump said, because
I'm sure a couple of weeks ago, when I was
(04:03):
on the pod talking about I got flowers sent to
me by my boyfriend, a lot of people are like, oh,
I'm sad and single. If it was me listening to
that when I was single, I would have been like, oh, wow,
fuck you bitch, like you got flowers from your boyfriend.
Guess what, same same individual couple of weeks later, one
week later absolutely devastated me to my core. But I
(04:24):
I will say that I won't say anything about the
breakup besides that there was a large ego bruising involved.
That was me finding out my feelings for this person
were not mutual, and I was like, wait, you're kidding
me right now, I'm kidding, but yeah, so that felt tough.
(04:45):
I haven't X I mean, well, this will sound annoying,
but like, I haven't really experienced that before where it's like, oh,
so you okay, don't want to be with me. We
had a great interaction on tax for Devon texting me,
Am I overreacting about my breakup, and I said, well,
you do seem to be going to like a serious place,
but I understand because you know, you've never really been
(05:06):
rejected this way. And then Devin writes back, I have
been rejected actually, and I'm like, oh, brother, was that
Did I walk into this one or what? And I'm sorry,
I go I think a little bit later I was
like sorry. I was like, it's not your fault, Like
this is just how I'm feeling. There's been a lot
of me. It's funny because I was telling my friend
last night there's been so much of me immediately like
(05:28):
doing something and then immediately being like that was not No,
that wasn't me, that was someone else, and like I'm
going to So I made the decision because my best
friend Haley from high school is an actual angel, and
like I'm saying that because now that I'm religious, I
see that people are in human beings are actually angels.
People are angels are devils or Satan. So Haley invited
(05:50):
me to come stay with her in Seattle, for three weeks.
I do feel I need to physically remove myself from
the state of Brooklyn because is I'm a walking open
wound where everything is like a reminder and every every
day is like every day has felt like. Traveling is
(06:10):
a very good response to a breakup if you have
the luxury of doing so, obviously, but going anywhere, I'm
removing your body. I went to Rome, Italy once um
to go on a booty call because uh an x
head started dating a friend of mine. I also went
to Rhode Island once for a weekend with Little Frecks
(06:32):
and a carroll because she and we didn't even know
each other and all I knew was I was struggling
under this breakup. She texted me, do you want to
go to Rhode Island with me? I said yes? Without
even thinking, I was like, yes, yes, yes, get me
out of here. Both trips were really helpful because in
my experience, when you go through a breakup, your world shrinks.
(06:53):
You cannot when you look down the street, you just
see people walking around. You can't believe people are walking around, okay,
when you're in so much pain, you can't believe like
and if this sounds dramatic. That's just how breakups feel usually,
Like I remember just crying and looking at people and
being like is this going to end? And I even
put my head in like my friend's lap once at
(07:15):
a diner. This is after I'm in another relationship and
I find out my ex is living with my friend
and I just put my head in his lap and cry.
And I think that getting out of town, you see,
like hot guys, you see, the world is bigger. You see,
there's a world where people don't even know what's going
on with you. And that's the great thing. And I
(07:35):
really think that that Elizabeth Gilbert had something to say
when she said eat, when she said pray, when she
said love, you know, and she just moved from country
to country doing all the damn things. I have been praying,
as I said, and and I've been speaking in tongues
to my savior. But what I was saying to my
friend last night, I was like, okay, so, and by
(07:56):
the way, have have received the feedback that this is
of my style of being, Like I'm actually having a
whole new life starting really soon. So everything's going to
change and I don't even care about anything I used
to own. Or care about. It's actually a whole new
thing and like I'm a different person. So I was
telling my friend that last night about Seattle, like she
mentioned like Tracy Anderson, and I was like, oh yeah,
I'm actually gonna exercise in my new life in um Seattle.
(08:20):
Then I was like, okay, Seattle, Devon Leary is a
different person. Meaning all of the deranged text messages that
I've sent to won't disclose who. But I bet you
can take a guess, Chris Evans. I mean, actually, to
be honest, I've been sending deranged text message to everyone
as you as evidenced by you, my friends included, just
(08:40):
like people. People are like how are you doing? And
I guess one option would be to say like I'm okay,
Like I'm safe, I'm in my home, and my decision
is to be like nothing has ever been worse than this,
including nine eleven. But so that's me. She Devin does
this thing, and I think everyone doesn't break up to
a certain sent where you text thought us stream, like
(09:03):
in the middle of a work meeting and I'll get
a text abouting from Devin being like okay, update, now
I've decided to let go of all, like, are we
in a conversation? I forget that I texted, like so
you know, I'm actually not mad anymore at all, Like
I understand what he did and what was said, and
like it all makes sense and like we're human beings.
I just realized we're actually human beings and we have
(09:25):
flaws and that's beautiful. Actually you should give a Ted talk.
I think I should, where you're just constantly changing your
opinion every five seconds, Like actually, well now that I'm
talking about that's all Devin Learry in New York City
and then Devin Larry in Seattle is not responsible for
any of that, and won't that won't even be occurring there.
The the type of person who would send a screenshot
(09:49):
of a Taylor Swift song to their very fresh ex boyfriend.
That's not me, that's not Seattle Devon, that's Brooklyn Devon,
who I feel bad for honestly, Like, I I see
that girl and I feel sorry for her because because
she's not me. As you know, I don't I like
Taylor Swift. I don't share the enthusiasm that you and
(10:11):
friend of the Pod Beth Jacob sent share. But I
was I caught a small bit of the song Midnight Rain.
I liked the line he wanted a bride. I was
making my own name, And I really think that we
want to embrace more of that energy. Like I am
busy creating myself, and I am not going to fit
(10:34):
the mold of what most men want. I'm sorry to
say for myself, I really do believe that. And I
don't believe that I'm not value. I don't believe I'm
not attractive. I don't believe all these things. But I
think that a lot of men his and this is
because of history and society and all those dark things,
want a woman who will make her life about them, right,
(10:55):
So they want, like you take care of them, you go,
you go, like, involve yourself in their work life, you
concern yourself with their hobbies, their friends. We rarely hear
about a guy who starts seeing a girl hanging out
with her friends all the time. That's that's an example.
I need to meet someone who is okay making a
lot of my life about them. I want to the opposite.
(11:16):
I don't want. I don't even know if I want boundaries.
I need to be self centered a little bit. Sorry, Well,
I think the problem with me is that I want
to make my life about someone else so that I
don't have to live my own life, Like I think
I am comfortable in for some reason, like relationships that
(11:38):
are very consuming, good or bad, and in using that
as a distraction talking about it like this is the issue?
What do you think? Like it's like using I use
it as a distraction to not like look inward, I guess,
and not like focus on what I really want to
do with my life. This okay, So this is I'll say.
(12:00):
I think like for the past few weeks, I was
on the podcast talking about like changing my meds, like
I felt like I was like depressed and trying to
figure it out a little bit. And then I feel
like I sounded probably much more sane in those episodes,
but I actually think I was much worse off in
a way. It's like now I'm like in the moment
of like, Okay, this is kind of uh mental breakdown
(12:23):
of sorts that needs to happen because certain patterns in
my life keep repeating. I keep choosing the same things
that don't work and are not healthy and aren't furthering
me towards what I really want. Oh well, I want
(12:47):
to share something which I was thinking about today in
the shower before I jumped on podcast with you, because
I think it's hard for friends of someone going through
a breakup to try to convince their friend that they're
going to be okay. I mean, I know talking to
you because you understand, like I know talking to you,
that you will not believe it, and that's okay. Like
(13:08):
that's just the nature of these things. Like you can
tell your friend you're gonna meet someone else, they will
not believe it. You're gonna tell you when it will
get better, they don't believe it. It's just fear becomes
the truth when you're in pain and when you don't
know what the future is going to look like. Because
I don't know who I'm going to end up with next,
(13:28):
I choose to believe my fear, which is that you'll
be alone forever. No one will like you because of
your scars, no one will ever be attracted to you,
because your boobs are too small, you're not skinny enough, etcetera.
Like my fear becomes we're talking about like talking to God,
but like my fear becomes my like higher power, Like
I'm going to listen to this and I'm not asking
to my friends and people I even trust or respect
(13:50):
like their opinion, Like, no, I'm not listening to them
because I just don't believe it. And also it's painful
to believe. It's painful to have hope. Yeah, So I
was thinking, what can I say that would be helpful
without giving on, you know, advice that you didn't ask for.
And what I will say, And my experience is that
you know, like I know, you've got flowers like a
week ago, about a year ago, just so just a
(14:12):
year ago. I got flowers on Valentine's Day, so like
a year ago today, I like got pretty much a
year ago. A week from today, I got like my
ex knocked at my door. I opened it. He had
all these like roses, and I, I mean, it should
show you the kind of person I date that I
that's unusual to me. I was like, oh my god,
(14:33):
I was so happy and I was so happy dating
my ex during that period, Like I literally all the
time was just like I am. I would say out loud,
I am so happy. And you know when we when
we went through a breakup, it was really hard and
I found myself like, you know, you're doing devon, like
biting some people's heads off, just when like they were
(14:53):
because because I couldn't talk to my ex, and because
I was mad and I felt like no one understood
what I was going through and all of above. You know,
what I will say is that this past year, and
I this sounds like a brag, and maybe it is,
but it's also evidence of why things needed to happen,
and that is that at the end of our relationship,
(15:16):
I went to go meet him at his house and
I remember I was getting ready and I was like, God,
I really want to write tonight, Like this is time
that I should be writing. And I just had that
like little speck of self knowledge, like I'm going to
meet my boyfriend quote unquote whoever, like the X I'm
hooking up with. But I really think that whoever, I
don't even know what we're calling each other. I know
(15:36):
he's not calling me his girlfriend. Yeah, I mean quote
unquote whatever, hooking up cash, Yes, pretty much exactly how
I operate. And I remember just having that feeling of like, God,
I want to write all the time. It's really hard
for me to sit down and do it because, like
you definitely, like I find distractions that are usually in
the form of a male person and UM, at the
(15:57):
same time, I was like, I'm I'm not going to
not go over to my excess house right now. That's
not a possibility, So I do that. We end up
going through a breakup. UM, it's painful, but the most
the biggest source of the pain is knowing that it
has to happen. That is like the like the truth
that is unavoidable, that we are not supposed to be together.
And you know, the second time around, in a way
(16:18):
is more painful because you're like, the first time around,
you think like, maybe we'll get back together at some point,
and the second time around, you're like, we are not
getting back together, or we already did, and we found
out even more information about why it's not going to work.
So that being said, the year of two was my
best career year of my life. And I don't think
(16:39):
that's a law. I think I don't. I don't think
you know, if you're going through a breakup and you
have kids, there's so many different outcomes to breakups. But
what I'll say is that I wrote a script with you,
I wrote two other scripts. I worked on a movie.
UM as like in the capacity of a writer, which
I've never done before. I'm I had so much fun
(17:03):
with my career and I was very lonely a lot
of those periods too, Like I missed my ex. I
thought about him NonStop. I was obsessed to the point
where I didn't even think of myself as like obsessed anymore.
So it was just like in the back of this
it was the radio being on all the time. Like
I was just like, oh yeah, I'm you know, having
a fantasy about running into my ex and like the
arms of another man. And I really do think that
(17:27):
I needed that time, and I would not have asked
for it because, like you said, like I'm very comfortable
just being like whatever you want to do, whoever you
want to hang out with. Like I don't even know
what to ask for because I'm so comfortable, you know,
making my life about another person. And now, you know,
this month has been really fun for my career. I'm
I'm really excited about what's to come. And I respect
(17:53):
your voice so much. And I think you're like one
of them, you know, like funniest, like smartest, wisest people
I know, and it's funny or I think you're really
pretty Okay, thanks. I mean, we don't even want to
get into like that. You don't want to talk about
body we don't know. We don't want to get into
body dysmorphia. We don't want to talk into like our
(18:14):
like hyping up our friends again, like they just don't
believe it during a breakup. But it's just depressing, Like
seeing the hot girls cry is just depressing. Okay, I
do sometimes believe it, and then like it almost makes
me more mad because it's like I make I've been
making a lot of people compliment me in manipulative ways.
And then like then I'm like, wait, I am like
hot and funny and normal, and well, okay normal, No,
(18:39):
I am hot and funny and cool. I think I'm like,
I'm like very funny for how hot I am. And
I think like I have I think I have like
a nice, like a cool family who's nice, and I
have a career and like I have like a lot
of friends and most people like me. And then I'm like, so,
then what was the fucking problem? Then? You know, but
then it's like, of course it's more complicated than that,
(19:01):
But yeah, I mean that's very helpful, and I do
admire like how you don't, as they say, need a
man um in the way that I desperately, desperately, painfully
do right now. And I want to be like that,
and I've never been like that, and I want to
like work towards that. And I think, like, I mean,
it's run the gambit, like something, like I've talked to
so much, I've basically been running like open house of
(19:23):
like Okay, every single friend I know, please come over
and fill up my time with like talking, so I
don't go on Instagram and see when he was last
active or like whatever. I mean, you don't want to know.
And so I'm like, please come over. And some people
have been like, you know, taking the like fuck him approach,
which I'm not really able to receive, but I also
respect it, Like I'm like, I respect that I'm that
(19:44):
way with my friends. Some people have been like the
pumping me up approach. Some people have been like, yeah,
this is just really fucking hard. And like my friend
texted me this morning and she's like, I know you
feel insane, but it's normal. And like when she was
over last night, I kept being like I'm insane, like
I'm crazy, like I'm and she was just like, no,
you're going through a breakup, Like if you didn't act
this way, Like I was like, do you think that
(20:06):
I need like a diagnosis or something, And she's like,
if you didn't act this way, then I would be worried,
like if you were fine, And I was like, okay,
Like that's helpful. It's helpful to hear other people's experiences.
And it's also like one of our friends was saying
like that when she went through a breakup that was
probably much more severe than this, but was also like
a rejection. She said like she suddenly felt like, Oh,
(20:28):
this is what everyone's been going through, and that's how
I feel like. And I'm like listening to these sad
breakup songs and I'm like, oh, it is this bad.
Like I'm like, oh, that's what everyone's been dealing with.
Like that's fucked up because all my previous breakups I've
gotten I've like stayed with these people to the point
where I'm like I cannot stand. Like almost all of
(20:48):
my breakups, not all of them, but most of them,
I have had the very distinct feeling of like I
cannot wait to never have to speak to this person again.
Like I when when I don't have to look at
this person's face in person or talk to them again.
I will be so relieved and I just have to
get to that point. And so this one is like, wait, no,
I want to talk to you. Wait like you want
(21:09):
I mean, wait, you want me to leave? Oh? Okay,
Like can I convince you out of that? You know? Like,
and I always made fun of like my ex is
for all being like you're making a mistake, because I
was like, really you think I'm making a mistake. But
now that's how I feel like, I'm like, okay, wait,
you're gonna You're gonna turn your little mind around are
into But also this is the thing, though, this makes
(21:31):
you only more valuable human being. Being through pain makes
you a someone who's connected to the world more. I mean,
I'm going to compare it to the injuries from my
car accident. I mean, it's a little bit worse than that.
But okay, you're like a little bit very different. I
(21:54):
the trauma that I've been through. I mean, like it's
the physical trauma, the physical like you know, I I
my physical abilities have been affected. The only thing is
that I'm more connected to the pain in this world.
And so I can see children who you know, have scars,
(22:15):
and I have compassion, and I feel like I can
talk to them better than people who don't have scars
can talk to them. And I find that valuable. Would
I like to, you know, turn back the clock, of course,
and um, But at the same time, like reality is
sometimes painful, and yet avoiding it in any way is
(22:37):
more painful, and so delusion is pain is a just
a different kind of pain. So I might as well
go with reality, I know. And and no, I was
just going to say, like, and I'm glad, I mean breakups.
I'm so glad I went through because I really feel
like I can listen to people like you and I
(22:58):
can be like, yep, I understand that feeling. I remember
that feeling. I remember that feeling and and things. You know,
your next breakup or you know, hopefully you'll get married
and not have to go through a breakup, and hopefully
that will happen for both of us. But the next
time you feel any romanticative disappointment of some kind, it's
less like it's not with it. Like after my major
(23:19):
breakup where you know, the guy like looked up with
my you know friend, and I was just so tore apart.
I dated, as you know, Yoni, friend of the pot,
the most delicious, perfect man, and like changed my life
for the better. And when we went through a breakup,
it was really painful, but because of the quality of
his character, because I was more mature, because I had
(23:39):
gone through you know what I had gone through, and
you know vice versa. Probably we didn't burn each other's
lives down. I didn't burn my life down. I was lost,
that's for sure. I just let go of someone who
was really special and I knew that like that, you know,
I was kind of like, what did I just do?
I can't and then you know, wanting him back. He
didn't want to take him back all the things. But
(24:01):
I wasn't where you are now, and that's because I
had already been there and I knew that a lot
of the lies weren't true. Yeah, and like you don't
know that yet, Well, I think I know. It's funny
because I okay, so this is what where I want
to say, like what's been helpful to me? And one
of the things is like I had lunch with my
friend Kabuka, David Kabuka yesterday, which I like begged him
(24:23):
to come on the podcast, but he won't. We were
having lunch and he was like, well, you're still He
was like, oh, it's been one week. Yeah, it's gonna
get worse and it's going to get better sometimes, but
it's also going to get worse. And I was like oh.
And he was like, they're going to date someone else,
They're gonna They're like, it's just gonna get worse. And
I was like okay, and he's like, but you just
have to accept that, like you just have to be like, oh, yeah,
(24:45):
this is really bad. Oh yeah, I'm in a lot
of pain. I'm still in the middle of it. I'm
still in the middle of it. This is normal and
that's okay, and this feeling is okay and that. And
he was like, you can't like try to fight the
feelings or judge them, just like experience them. And he
all so I was saying, and you look around and
see that you're still standing, Like that sounds crazy, but
like I just found out that my ax was dating
(25:06):
someone new and I had tears, and then twenty minutes later,
I was like, oh, I'm still here, I'm still well.
It's this pain is not going to eat me it's
also like Umboo is saying, like it's like biological, Like
biologically I am like designed to want to partner with
someone and like procreate with someone, and like men are
(25:28):
designed differently, and they because I keep doing this thing
where I'm like, wait, is he like fine? Like he
posted like a podcast? Is he okay? Like oh so,
so business as usual for you? Got it? Like I
guess I'll just be here wasting away whatever. Men are
just different. And also it's like people are just different
and people compartmentalize. And another thing that has been really
helpful is this this thing that got me through my
(25:50):
last breakup too, which was Glenn and Doyle. I forget
if it's from her podcast or her book, but she said,
every truth is a kindness even if it hurts people. Well,
basically I'm paraphrasing, and every untruth is an unkindness, even
if it makes people comfortable. So it's like, previously I
was living in a in a kinder feeling world where
(26:12):
that was untrue, where I thought like certain feelings were
different and whatever, and and now I'm living in the
truth that that wasn't the case, and it feels unkind
and it feels bad but it's also going to be
for the better for everyone. And I really believe that.
And I can't fault anyone for being honest about their feelings.
That's the best thing you can do in any situation,
(26:35):
no matter what gets you there. Sometimes the way that
people get to being honest is painful, and I've been
there too, Like I've chosen the most painful route to
finally be honest with someone, and like, and it's about
saving time. I'm always when anyone goes through a breakup
with someone who does not reciprocate their feelings, I'm like, good,
they saved you time. Yes, that's and hopefully they didn't
(26:56):
waste too much of it, because it's like, I don't
want to be with someone who doesn't feel the same way.
In fact, let me know so I can find the
person I'm supposed to be with. I'm not really at
that place yet. I'm currently like, well, wasting my time
would actually be a little bit better than than this,
but I know that's not true. Another thing that's really
helped is the Pamela Anderson documentary where she says what
(27:16):
you said, like, well, similar to what you said, like Paine,
is what all the best art comes from. It's what
all the best connections come from. Like like as Taylor
Swift would say, like if you never bleed, you're never
gonna grow, and like, I really think that's true. And
Pam also there's like I watched it two days after
my breakup and I was saw being but I was
also heal linga because she did that. There's like a
(27:40):
montage where she's like, so then I married kid Rock
and then like that was bad, and then like broke
up and then I thought I should marry someone. I
should be with someone who's actually like my friend. So
my friend who was an alcoholic drug addict and a
professional poker player. I reached out to him and then
we got married and then that didn't work, and then
this person and then that person, and like I related
so much. And then in the end she was like,
I don't feel like a victim to any of the
(28:02):
situations that I chose to put myself in, but I
survived them and like I and then in the end
of the documentary, she's going to do Chicago spoiler alert,
she was in Chicago and she's like she's like really
excited talking to her son's who, by the way, either Son,
if you're single, Coller, I'm here, and because I love
(28:22):
them so much and they're so cute and they always
comment like hearts on her instagrams. She's saying like the
only she says, the only thing that can get in
my way now is a man, and I have to
be like in love with myself. I have to like
focus on myself. And then at the very end, she's like,
it's it's like the Chicago run is over, and she's like,
I don't know what I'm gonna do now. I don't
know what I'm gonna do next week, but like maybe
(28:44):
I'll figure it out. And it's like it just was
so like the spoiler alert for anyone who wanted to
watch the Pam documentary, Devon just walked us through the
last thirty minutes. But I really appreciate that. And the
only thing that could come in my way as a
man is something that I really identify with as someone
who gets consumed. Um, we are going to take a
(29:07):
quick break and then come back with some listener questions.
Please stay tuned. Oh so, welcome back to True Romance.
Uh Carolina had to sorry. If you can hear my
cat is playing with his toy um, but I can't
(29:30):
take it away from him because I'm codependent. Carolina had
to hop off because she has a career and a
very full life, and I got nothing better to do.
So I'm going to answer some listener questions. Uh, and listener,
I'm going to answer some listener questions about breakups that
we actually we actually put the feelers out for this
(29:53):
before my breakup, And isn't the universe funny like that? Okay,
so we have how long is too long to recover
from one? I haven't dated since my March breakup. Now,
that doesn't make me super hopeful to be honest from
my current situation, But I will say also disclaimer. In general,
(30:13):
I feel like breakup advice like it's all with a
grain of salt, because it's like every situation is so
different and looking back on like all my friends going
through breakups in the past, and all the times I
thought I knew like exactly what they need to do
with their lot, with their lives and what they needed
to focus on, and like that I had to convince
them not to go back to him or whatever. It's
(30:36):
like I didn't really know what the funk I was
talking about and we all can just share our experiences,
but it's never gonna like perfectly match a situation. I
think the healing part comes from just like people understanding
what you're going through. So how long is too long?
I don't think there's an answer to that. It's like
not dating when you don't want to is a really
(30:58):
wise choice, or when you don't feel ready to. And
I feel like people should do that for as long
as they need to. And I feel like if you're
still recovering, you should be kind to yourself. That's what
a lot of people have been telling me. And and
by the way, it's been like eight days for me. Um,
but uh but yeah, people have been telling me to
(31:20):
be kind to myself and and that's hard. That's hard.
Um Okay, So next question, how do you handle supporting
when two of your friends break up with each other.
I've been in this situation before. I think one thing
I did was tell both friends that I wasn't gonna
(31:43):
like tell I wasn't going to give any information about
the other person to that person, if that makes sense.
Like Friend A would talk to me about friend B
that they just broke up with, and I was like, Okay, well,
and they're like, how are they doing? I'm not going
to give that information, but I think you can just
support both people and listen, because that's that's really what
(32:03):
people need, is like listening and understanding. It's hard to
not like bridge over into like, oh yeah, I understand
what you're going through. And since I know that person,
I think they're probably feeling this one, you know what
I mean. But it's like I don't think that's helpful.
And I think also, like if you feel like you
need to like distance yourself from the situation, sometimes that's helpful.
Maybe this person like can get more out of their
(32:24):
friends that aren't connected to their ex. I personally struggle
a lot with like wanting to seek information from people
because I think, like, like when I go through a breakup,
it's like I think, if I get the right information
from someone, I'll be like, oh I understand this, when
when actually there's not really any understanding to be had
right now. Um. For example, I my current breakup, I
(32:47):
texted my exes friend like the day after the breakup,
and I was like, will you be willing to talk
to me? And he sent like the most perfect response,
which was like, um, I don't think that would be
helpful or fair, but like, I will always be here
for you type of thing. And also, don't worry, I
won't tell your ex that you reached out, which was
(33:08):
funny because it was kind of like it was like, hey,
um no. And also don't worry, I won't repeat how
psychotic you're being right now, and it kind of made
me realize how crazy it was it I even asked,
But yeah, I really struggle with like not seeking out information,
so I don't really have any wisdom in that area.
I'm still kind of trying to do it. Okay, let's see.
(33:30):
Well Beth Cohen, friend of the pod, says that she's
stumped because no one ever breaks up with her. Must
be nice. We also reached out and asked if people
had like recommendations or advice or thoughts in general on breakups,
and we got someone wrote, he blamed my family. Okay, well,
(33:54):
I think sometimes that's fair and sometimes that's not. I mean,
I think anyone should blame anyone else for like a breakup,
but families are complicated. I don't know. Someone recommended if
trying to hang out and fix ship read seven seven
Principles of Marriage don't need to be married to read
it UM or read whole again if you've been in
(34:17):
a semi toxic to extremely toxic relationship, I will look
into both of those. UM. I'm currently not able to
read because it's too silent, and so instead I watched
TikTok while watching TV. But when I'm able to consume
words on paper again, I will I will look into
those those books someone wrote poorn. Addiction or online cheating
(34:40):
seems to be more common than physical cheating. UM that
tracks thanks for sharing. Online cheating I assume is like,
I don't know if that's like an Ashley Madison situation
or if it's like a cat fishing situation. I do
know that that many people are victim to catfishing, including
(35:03):
Mary from Sister Wives and all the hundreds of thousands
of participants in the MTV reality show. So so yeah,
that makes sense. Poor an addiction, I don't know. I mean,
I can't imagine being addicted to UM. Well, I want
to say, I can't imagine being addicted to something so depressing. Meanwhile,
I'm like addicted to watching ninety fiance spinoffs where people
(35:25):
are like agreeing to marry big Ed just so they
can get a visa. So, oh, this is a good one.
Can you ever get over an act if you keep
talking to them? I wouldn't know the answer to that,
especially currently, but I do know people say that, like,
I mean, this is another one where it's like, I
(35:46):
think it's situation a situation. I think it's very easy
to say, like just no contact policy, and I have
definitely said that in the past. But I also have
been in situations where it's easier for me to like
not talk because I had feelings left for the person,
so I just was like, no, I don't want to
talk to you. I've also like not had feelings for
the person but felt like emotionally responsible for their needs
(36:09):
still and had excess reach out and like continue to
talk to them because I felt guilty. But that was
kind of like a dishonest unkindness situation where I was
just like I felt I was acting selfishly to try
to like make my guilt feel better instead of like
kind of setting a boundary that would have been helped
probably more helpful to the person if I was just
like listening, like I'm not the right person for you
(36:30):
to talk to right now. I do think that It's
like a lot of times, it's like the only thing
you want the person to say is I made a
mistake and I want to get back together with you.
And so when you're talking and the person is not
saying that, it can, in my direct experience, be really painful.
But it's also like it's also so much easier said
(36:53):
than done. It's like, I don't want to not talk
to this person, like at least we're talking at all,
you know, Like I don't know, I am not in
the most clear headed place to give this kind of advice,
but I will say that we're all doing the best
we can. It's really like it's kind of traumatizing to
like cease all contact with someone, especially when that person
(37:16):
was like one of the most important people in your
life for like a period of time. And that's hard.
I I don't know if you can ever get over
someone by not talking to them. I don't know how
you ever get over someone. I know what happens, I
just don't know how, And like, you know, I guess
like report back in the future. So that's a really
(37:37):
helpful and hopeful note to end on. I think and listen,
I am grateful for all of my friends. Right now,
I will say, like, female friendship is truly like the
most important thing in my life right now. I really
(37:59):
don't know what I would do without, like friends who,
when I call them crying, are like, Okay, I'm coming
over and getting snacks and like, do you want cigarettes?
And I don't know what I would do without friends
who are willing to like field my text messages, like
receive the text messages I want to send to him
and then tell me like, don't send that, and then
I'm like, well I already did, actually, um, But you know,
(38:20):
I'm just grateful for that, grateful for this pod. Thanks
for listening, and I hope you all have a better
Monday than I'm having right now. So Sorroanic Love, maybe baby,
(38:42):
don't leave me again. I want you
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow
and this is Devin Leary. Well, we've got a spicy,
spicy episode for you. Well, I'd like to take you
guys back to gosh April June question Mark, when we
first premiered this podcast, and I was coming fresh off
(00:49):
the tails of a breakup after a three year relationship.
It wasn't that was the real deal. That was the
real deal. I didn't mean to say it like this
one isn't no, but it was. It was coming. It
was also like two weeks. It was like so, I mean,
it wasn't two weeks, but it felt it was so
quickly at the beginning of the pandemic. It was like,
(01:10):
oh my god, like this is happening to you now
of all time. I don't know. It was a breakup.
It was l a being shut down with it. And
it was my thirtieth birthday in two weeks Folklore being released,
and and we can't forget that also Folklore being released,
which really put things over the top for me. No,
(01:31):
I um, I mean, we'll get to this later, but
I don't think that you should wait for a birthday
to pass to break up with someone I don't believe
in that. I don't believe in anything because right now, No,
I actually have been praying to God, like I mean, guys,
not to be dramatic, but I'm laughing because I love
(01:54):
that sentence. No, I actually have been praying to God recently.
Nothing because it's because I've been praying to my Lord
and say Savior Jesus Christ. And it's literally like at
one point, I was just telling Carolina that I like,
I texted this place. There's like a spot in my
old neighborhood that you can text for a massage. I
know that sounds shady, but like it's absolutely not. And
I texted them saying it's absolutely not. Makes it feel
(02:16):
even more shady. I know that'sound shady, but it's absolutely not.
I was walking down the street. I felt like I
was about to cry, and I texted this place and like,
do you have a massage? They're like yes, four pm.
And then I just like stared at the text and
I was like, am I able to get myself there?
I was like okay, um, realistically no, So I go, well,
I actually can't come today, thanks, and they're like okay,
(02:37):
what and then I'm like about to cry, about to cry,
but I was on my way to a friend of
the pod test sitsman's house because I had asked her,
can I just come over and sit on your couch
while you're doing your work zooms and she said yes,
And I was like, Okay, just don't cry till you
get to the corner. Don't cry till you get to
the corner. God, Hey, God, help me not cry from
this corner to the next corner, please, And so, yeah,
(02:59):
you could say that religion is really working for me.
And well, if if spoiler alert, if you haven't caught
on the clues, Devon just went for a break. I'm
doing really well. So the clues are to say that
I'm actually peaking. Everything's going really well. Nothing no notes,
(03:20):
no notes on on the God, to God, on the
quality of my life. No, I the quality of my
life is actually amazing. Despite yeah, despite that idea. It
sounds so like a monologue of a girl in a
bar right now talking about a break up. I know,
And it's so funny because I can't help but sound
like this, like I've been on phone calls. Yes, okay, yes,
(03:42):
people everybody's wondering I did I don't even know if
I got broken up with I went through a breakup
of which, and you know what, this is actually helpful
to the listeners because it's this is about how this
is about how life can always change and you never
know what you're gonna get. As Forrest Gump said, because
I'm sure a couple of weeks ago, when I was
(04:03):
on the pod talking about I got flowers sent to
me by my boyfriend, a lot of people are like, oh,
I'm sad and single. If it was me listening to
that when I was single, I would have been like, oh, wow,
fuck you bitch, like you got flowers from your boyfriend.
Guess what, same same individual couple of weeks later, one
week later absolutely devastated me to my core. But I
(04:24):
I will say that I won't say anything about the
breakup besides that there was a large ego bruising involved.
That was me finding out my feelings for this person
were not mutual, and I was like, wait, you're kidding
me right now, I'm kidding, but yeah, so that felt tough.
(04:45):
I haven't X I mean, well, this will sound annoying,
but like, I haven't really experienced that before where it's like, oh,
so you okay, don't want to be with me. We
had a great interaction on tax for Devon texting me,
Am I overreacting about my breakup, and I said, well,
you do seem to be going to like a serious place,
but I understand because you know, you've never really been
(05:06):
rejected this way. And then Devin writes back, I have
been rejected actually, and I'm like, oh, brother, was that
Did I walk into this one or what? And I'm sorry,
I go I think a little bit later I was
like sorry. I was like, it's not your fault, Like
this is just how I'm feeling. There's been a lot
of me. It's funny because I was telling my friend
last night there's been so much of me immediately like
(05:28):
doing something and then immediately being like that was not No,
that wasn't me, that was someone else, and like I'm
going to So I made the decision because my best
friend Haley from high school is an actual angel, and
like I'm saying that because now that I'm religious, I
see that people are in human beings are actually angels.
People are angels are devils or Satan. So Haley invited
(05:50):
me to come stay with her in Seattle, for three weeks.
I do feel I need to physically remove myself from
the state of Brooklyn because is I'm a walking open
wound where everything is like a reminder and every every
day is like every day has felt like. Traveling is
(06:10):
a very good response to a breakup if you have
the luxury of doing so, obviously, but going anywhere, I'm
removing your body. I went to Rome, Italy once um
to go on a booty call because uh an x
head started dating a friend of mine. I also went
to Rhode Island once for a weekend with Little Frecks
(06:32):
and a carroll because she and we didn't even know
each other and all I knew was I was struggling
under this breakup. She texted me, do you want to
go to Rhode Island with me? I said yes? Without
even thinking, I was like, yes, yes, yes, get me
out of here. Both trips were really helpful because in
my experience, when you go through a breakup, your world shrinks.
(06:53):
You cannot when you look down the street, you just
see people walking around. You can't believe people are walking around, okay,
when you're in so much pain, you can't believe like
and if this sounds dramatic. That's just how breakups feel usually,
Like I remember just crying and looking at people and
being like is this going to end? And I even
put my head in like my friend's lap once at
(07:15):
a diner. This is after I'm in another relationship and
I find out my ex is living with my friend
and I just put my head in his lap and cry.
And I think that getting out of town, you see,
like hot guys, you see, the world is bigger. You see,
there's a world where people don't even know what's going
on with you. And that's the great thing. And I
(07:35):
really think that that Elizabeth Gilbert had something to say
when she said eat, when she said pray, when she
said love, you know, and she just moved from country
to country doing all the damn things. I have been praying,
as I said, and and I've been speaking in tongues
to my savior. But what I was saying to my
friend last night, I was like, okay, so, and by
(07:56):
the way, have have received the feedback that this is
of my style of being, Like I'm actually having a
whole new life starting really soon. So everything's going to
change and I don't even care about anything I used
to own. Or care about. It's actually a whole new
thing and like I'm a different person. So I was
telling my friend that last night about Seattle, like she
mentioned like Tracy Anderson, and I was like, oh yeah,
I'm actually gonna exercise in my new life in um Seattle.
(08:20):
Then I was like, okay, Seattle, Devon Leary is a
different person. Meaning all of the deranged text messages that
I've sent to won't disclose who. But I bet you
can take a guess, Chris Evans. I mean, actually, to
be honest, I've been sending deranged text message to everyone
as you as evidenced by you, my friends included, just
(08:40):
like people. People are like how are you doing? And
I guess one option would be to say like I'm okay,
Like I'm safe, I'm in my home, and my decision
is to be like nothing has ever been worse than this,
including nine eleven. But so that's me. She Devin does
this thing, and I think everyone doesn't break up to
a certain sent where you text thought us stream, like
(09:03):
in the middle of a work meeting and I'll get
a text abouting from Devin being like okay, update, now
I've decided to let go of all, like, are we
in a conversation? I forget that I texted, like so
you know, I'm actually not mad anymore at all, Like
I understand what he did and what was said, and
like it all makes sense and like we're human beings.
I just realized we're actually human beings and we have
(09:25):
flaws and that's beautiful. Actually you should give a Ted talk.
I think I should, where you're just constantly changing your
opinion every five seconds, Like actually, well now that I'm
talking about that's all Devin Learry in New York City
and then Devin Larry in Seattle is not responsible for
any of that, and won't that won't even be occurring there.
The the type of person who would send a screenshot
(09:49):
of a Taylor Swift song to their very fresh ex boyfriend.
That's not me, that's not Seattle Devon, that's Brooklyn Devon,
who I feel bad for honestly, Like, I I see
that girl and I feel sorry for her because because
she's not me. As you know, I don't I like
Taylor Swift. I don't share the enthusiasm that you and
(10:11):
friend of the Pod Beth Jacob sent share. But I
was I caught a small bit of the song Midnight Rain.
I liked the line he wanted a bride. I was
making my own name, And I really think that we
want to embrace more of that energy. Like I am
busy creating myself, and I am not going to fit
(10:34):
the mold of what most men want. I'm sorry to
say for myself, I really do believe that. And I
don't believe that I'm not value. I don't believe I'm
not attractive. I don't believe all these things. But I
think that a lot of men his and this is
because of history and society and all those dark things,
want a woman who will make her life about them, right,
(10:55):
So they want, like you take care of them, you go,
you go, like, involve yourself in their work life, you
concern yourself with their hobbies, their friends. We rarely hear
about a guy who starts seeing a girl hanging out
with her friends all the time. That's that's an example.
I need to meet someone who is okay making a
lot of my life about them. I want to the opposite.
(11:16):
I don't want. I don't even know if I want boundaries.
I need to be self centered a little bit. Sorry, Well,
I think the problem with me is that I want
to make my life about someone else so that I
don't have to live my own life, Like I think
I am comfortable in for some reason, like relationships that
(11:38):
are very consuming, good or bad, and in using that
as a distraction talking about it like this is the issue?
What do you think? Like it's like using I use
it as a distraction to not like look inward, I guess,
and not like focus on what I really want to
do with my life. This okay, So this is I'll say.
(12:00):
I think like for the past few weeks, I was
on the podcast talking about like changing my meds, like
I felt like I was like depressed and trying to
figure it out a little bit. And then I feel
like I sounded probably much more sane in those episodes,
but I actually think I was much worse off in
a way. It's like now I'm like in the moment
of like, Okay, this is kind of uh mental breakdown
(12:23):
of sorts that needs to happen because certain patterns in
my life keep repeating. I keep choosing the same things
that don't work and are not healthy and aren't furthering
me towards what I really want. Oh well, I want
(12:47):
to share something which I was thinking about today in
the shower before I jumped on podcast with you, because
I think it's hard for friends of someone going through
a breakup to try to convince their friend that they're
going to be okay. I mean, I know talking to
you because you understand, like I know talking to you,
that you will not believe it, and that's okay. Like
(13:08):
that's just the nature of these things. Like you can
tell your friend you're gonna meet someone else, they will
not believe it. You're gonna tell you when it will
get better, they don't believe it. It's just fear becomes
the truth when you're in pain and when you don't
know what the future is going to look like. Because
I don't know who I'm going to end up with next,
(13:28):
I choose to believe my fear, which is that you'll
be alone forever. No one will like you because of
your scars, no one will ever be attracted to you,
because your boobs are too small, you're not skinny enough, etcetera.
Like my fear becomes we're talking about like talking to God,
but like my fear becomes my like higher power, Like
I'm going to listen to this and I'm not asking
to my friends and people I even trust or respect
(13:50):
like their opinion, Like, no, I'm not listening to them
because I just don't believe it. And also it's painful
to believe. It's painful to have hope. Yeah, So I
was thinking, what can I say that would be helpful
without giving on, you know, advice that you didn't ask for.
And what I will say, And my experience is that
you know, like I know, you've got flowers like a
week ago, about a year ago, just so just a
(14:12):
year ago. I got flowers on Valentine's Day, so like
a year ago today, I like got pretty much a
year ago. A week from today, I got like my
ex knocked at my door. I opened it. He had
all these like roses, and I, I mean, it should
show you the kind of person I date that I
that's unusual to me. I was like, oh my god,
(14:33):
I was so happy and I was so happy dating
my ex during that period, Like I literally all the
time was just like I am. I would say out loud,
I am so happy. And you know when we when
we went through a breakup, it was really hard and
I found myself like, you know, you're doing devon, like
biting some people's heads off, just when like they were
(14:53):
because because I couldn't talk to my ex, and because
I was mad and I felt like no one understood
what I was going through and all of above. You know,
what I will say is that this past year, and
I this sounds like a brag, and maybe it is,
but it's also evidence of why things needed to happen,
and that is that at the end of our relationship,
(15:16):
I went to go meet him at his house and
I remember I was getting ready and I was like, God,
I really want to write tonight, Like this is time
that I should be writing. And I just had that
like little speck of self knowledge, like I'm going to
meet my boyfriend quote unquote whoever, like the X I'm
hooking up with. But I really think that whoever, I
don't even know what we're calling each other. I know
(15:36):
he's not calling me his girlfriend. Yeah, I mean quote
unquote whatever, hooking up cash, Yes, pretty much exactly how
I operate. And I remember just having that feeling of like, God,
I want to write all the time. It's really hard
for me to sit down and do it because, like
you definitely, like I find distractions that are usually in
the form of a male person and UM, at the
(15:57):
same time, I was like, I'm I'm not going to
not go over to my excess house right now. That's
not a possibility, So I do that. We end up
going through a breakup. UM, it's painful, but the most
the biggest source of the pain is knowing that it
has to happen. That is like the like the truth
that is unavoidable, that we are not supposed to be together.
And you know, the second time around, in a way
(16:18):
is more painful because you're like, the first time around,
you think like, maybe we'll get back together at some point,
and the second time around, you're like, we are not
getting back together, or we already did, and we found
out even more information about why it's not going to work.
So that being said, the year of two was my
best career year of my life. And I don't think
(16:39):
that's a law. I think I don't. I don't think
you know, if you're going through a breakup and you
have kids, there's so many different outcomes to breakups. But
what I'll say is that I wrote a script with you,
I wrote two other scripts. I worked on a movie.
UM as like in the capacity of a writer, which
I've never done before. I'm I had so much fun
(17:03):
with my career and I was very lonely a lot
of those periods too, Like I missed my ex. I
thought about him NonStop. I was obsessed to the point
where I didn't even think of myself as like obsessed anymore.
So it was just like in the back of this
it was the radio being on all the time. Like
I was just like, oh yeah, I'm you know, having
a fantasy about running into my ex and like the
arms of another man. And I really do think that
(17:27):
I needed that time, and I would not have asked
for it because, like you said, like I'm very comfortable
just being like whatever you want to do, whoever you
want to hang out with. Like I don't even know
what to ask for because I'm so comfortable, you know,
making my life about another person. And now, you know,
this month has been really fun for my career. I'm
I'm really excited about what's to come. And I respect
(17:53):
your voice so much. And I think you're like one
of them, you know, like funniest, like smartest, wisest people
I know, and it's funny or I think you're really
pretty Okay, thanks. I mean, we don't even want to
get into like that. You don't want to talk about
body we don't know. We don't want to get into
body dysmorphia. We don't want to talk into like our
(18:14):
like hyping up our friends again, like they just don't
believe it during a breakup. But it's just depressing, Like
seeing the hot girls cry is just depressing. Okay, I
do sometimes believe it, and then like it almost makes
me more mad because it's like I make I've been
making a lot of people compliment me in manipulative ways.
And then like then I'm like, wait, I am like
hot and funny and normal, and well, okay normal, No,
(18:39):
I am hot and funny and cool. I think I'm like,
I'm like very funny for how hot I am. And
I think like I have I think I have like
a nice, like a cool family who's nice, and I
have a career and like I have like a lot
of friends and most people like me. And then I'm like, so,
then what was the fucking problem? Then? You know, but
then it's like, of course it's more complicated than that,
(19:01):
But yeah, I mean that's very helpful, and I do
admire like how you don't, as they say, need a
man um in the way that I desperately, desperately, painfully
do right now. And I want to be like that,
and I've never been like that, and I want to
like work towards that. And I think, like, I mean,
it's run the gambit, like something, like I've talked to
so much, I've basically been running like open house of
(19:23):
like Okay, every single friend I know, please come over
and fill up my time with like talking, so I
don't go on Instagram and see when he was last
active or like whatever. I mean, you don't want to know.
And so I'm like, please come over. And some people
have been like, you know, taking the like fuck him approach,
which I'm not really able to receive, but I also
respect it, Like I'm like, I respect that I'm that
(19:44):
way with my friends. Some people have been like the
pumping me up approach. Some people have been like, yeah,
this is just really fucking hard. And like my friend
texted me this morning and she's like, I know you
feel insane, but it's normal. And like when she was
over last night, I kept being like I'm insane, like
I'm crazy, like I'm and she was just like, no,
you're going through a breakup, Like if you didn't act
this way, Like I was like, do you think that
(20:06):
I need like a diagnosis or something, And she's like,
if you didn't act this way, then I would be worried,
like if you were fine, And I was like, okay,
Like that's helpful. It's helpful to hear other people's experiences.
And it's also like one of our friends was saying
like that when she went through a breakup that was
probably much more severe than this, but was also like
a rejection. She said like she suddenly felt like, Oh,
(20:28):
this is what everyone's been going through, and that's how
I feel like. And I'm like listening to these sad
breakup songs and I'm like, oh, it is this bad.
Like I'm like, oh, that's what everyone's been dealing with.
Like that's fucked up because all my previous breakups I've
gotten I've like stayed with these people to the point
where I'm like I cannot stand. Like almost all of
(20:48):
my breakups, not all of them, but most of them,
I have had the very distinct feeling of like I
cannot wait to never have to speak to this person again.
Like I when when I don't have to look at
this person's face in person or talk to them again.
I will be so relieved and I just have to
get to that point. And so this one is like, wait, no,
I want to talk to you. Wait like you want
(21:09):
I mean, wait, you want me to leave? Oh? Okay,
Like can I convince you out of that? You know? Like,
and I always made fun of like my ex is
for all being like you're making a mistake, because I
was like, really you think I'm making a mistake. But
now that's how I feel like, I'm like, okay, wait,
you're gonna You're gonna turn your little mind around are
into But also this is the thing, though, this makes
(21:31):
you only more valuable human being. Being through pain makes
you a someone who's connected to the world more. I mean,
I'm going to compare it to the injuries from my
car accident. I mean, it's a little bit worse than that.
But okay, you're like a little bit very different. I
(21:54):
the trauma that I've been through. I mean, like it's
the physical trauma, the physical like you know, I I
my physical abilities have been affected. The only thing is
that I'm more connected to the pain in this world.
And so I can see children who you know, have scars,
(22:15):
and I have compassion, and I feel like I can
talk to them better than people who don't have scars
can talk to them. And I find that valuable. Would
I like to, you know, turn back the clock, of course,
and um, But at the same time, like reality is
sometimes painful, and yet avoiding it in any way is
(22:37):
more painful, and so delusion is pain is a just
a different kind of pain. So I might as well
go with reality, I know. And and no, I was
just going to say, like, and I'm glad, I mean breakups.
I'm so glad I went through because I really feel
like I can listen to people like you and I
(22:58):
can be like, yep, I understand that feeling. I remember
that feeling. I remember that feeling and and things. You know,
your next breakup or you know, hopefully you'll get married
and not have to go through a breakup, and hopefully
that will happen for both of us. But the next
time you feel any romanticative disappointment of some kind, it's
less like it's not with it. Like after my major
(23:19):
breakup where you know, the guy like looked up with
my you know friend, and I was just so tore apart.
I dated, as you know, Yoni, friend of the pot,
the most delicious, perfect man, and like changed my life
for the better. And when we went through a breakup,
it was really painful, but because of the quality of
his character, because I was more mature, because I had
(23:39):
gone through you know what I had gone through, and
you know vice versa. Probably we didn't burn each other's
lives down. I didn't burn my life down. I was lost,
that's for sure. I just let go of someone who
was really special and I knew that like that, you know,
I was kind of like, what did I just do?
I can't and then you know, wanting him back. He
didn't want to take him back all the things. But
(24:01):
I wasn't where you are now, and that's because I
had already been there and I knew that a lot
of the lies weren't true. Yeah, and like you don't
know that yet, Well, I think I know. It's funny
because I okay, so this is what where I want
to say, like what's been helpful to me? And one
of the things is like I had lunch with my
friend Kabuka, David Kabuka yesterday, which I like begged him
(24:23):
to come on the podcast, but he won't. We were
having lunch and he was like, well, you're still He
was like, oh, it's been one week. Yeah, it's gonna
get worse and it's going to get better sometimes, but
it's also going to get worse. And I was like oh.
And he was like, they're going to date someone else,
They're gonna They're like, it's just gonna get worse. And
I was like okay, and he's like, but you just
have to accept that, like you just have to be like, oh, yeah,
(24:45):
this is really bad. Oh yeah, I'm in a lot
of pain. I'm still in the middle of it. I'm
still in the middle of it. This is normal and
that's okay, and this feeling is okay and that. And
he was like, you can't like try to fight the
feelings or judge them, just like experience them. And he
all so I was saying, and you look around and
see that you're still standing, Like that sounds crazy, but
like I just found out that my ax was dating
(25:06):
someone new and I had tears, and then twenty minutes later,
I was like, oh, I'm still here, I'm still well.
It's this pain is not going to eat me it's
also like Umboo is saying, like it's like biological, Like
biologically I am like designed to want to partner with
someone and like procreate with someone, and like men are
(25:28):
designed differently, and they because I keep doing this thing
where I'm like, wait, is he like fine? Like he
posted like a podcast? Is he okay? Like oh so,
so business as usual for you? Got it? Like I
guess I'll just be here wasting away whatever. Men are
just different. And also it's like people are just different
and people compartmentalize. And another thing that has been really
helpful is this this thing that got me through my
(25:50):
last breakup too, which was Glenn and Doyle. I forget
if it's from her podcast or her book, but she said,
every truth is a kindness even if it hurts people. Well,
basically I'm paraphrasing, and every untruth is an unkindness, even
if it makes people comfortable. So it's like, previously I
was living in a in a kinder feeling world where
(26:12):
that was untrue, where I thought like certain feelings were
different and whatever, and and now I'm living in the
truth that that wasn't the case, and it feels unkind
and it feels bad but it's also going to be
for the better for everyone. And I really believe that.
And I can't fault anyone for being honest about their feelings.
That's the best thing you can do in any situation,
(26:35):
no matter what gets you there. Sometimes the way that
people get to being honest is painful, and I've been
there too, Like I've chosen the most painful route to
finally be honest with someone, and like, and it's about
saving time. I'm always when anyone goes through a breakup
with someone who does not reciprocate their feelings, I'm like, good,
they saved you time. Yes, that's and hopefully they didn't
(26:56):
waste too much of it, because it's like, I don't
want to be with someone who doesn't feel the same way.
In fact, let me know so I can find the
person I'm supposed to be with. I'm not really at
that place yet. I'm currently like, well, wasting my time
would actually be a little bit better than than this,
but I know that's not true. Another thing that's really
helped is the Pamela Anderson documentary where she says what
(27:16):
you said, like, well, similar to what you said, like Paine,
is what all the best art comes from. It's what
all the best connections come from. Like like as Taylor
Swift would say, like if you never bleed, you're never
gonna grow, and like, I really think that's true. And
Pam also there's like I watched it two days after
my breakup and I was saw being but I was
also heal linga because she did that. There's like a
(27:40):
montage where she's like, so then I married kid Rock
and then like that was bad, and then like broke
up and then I thought I should marry someone. I
should be with someone who's actually like my friend. So
my friend who was an alcoholic drug addict and a
professional poker player. I reached out to him and then
we got married and then that didn't work, and then
this person and then that person, and like I related
so much. And then in the end she was like,
I don't feel like a victim to any of the
(28:02):
situations that I chose to put myself in, but I
survived them and like I and then in the end
of the documentary, she's going to do Chicago spoiler alert,
she was in Chicago and she's like she's like really
excited talking to her son's who, by the way, either Son,
if you're single, Coller, I'm here, and because I love
(28:22):
them so much and they're so cute and they always
comment like hearts on her instagrams. She's saying like the
only she says, the only thing that can get in
my way now is a man, and I have to
be like in love with myself. I have to like
focus on myself. And then at the very end, she's like,
it's it's like the Chicago run is over, and she's like,
I don't know what I'm gonna do now. I don't
know what I'm gonna do next week, but like maybe
(28:44):
I'll figure it out. And it's like it just was
so like the spoiler alert for anyone who wanted to
watch the Pam documentary, Devon just walked us through the
last thirty minutes. But I really appreciate that. And the
only thing that could come in my way as a
man is something that I really identify with as someone
who gets consumed. Um, we are going to take a
(29:07):
quick break and then come back with some listener questions.
Please stay tuned. Oh so, welcome back to True Romance.
Uh Carolina had to sorry. If you can hear my
cat is playing with his toy um, but I can't
(29:30):
take it away from him because I'm codependent. Carolina had
to hop off because she has a career and a
very full life, and I got nothing better to do.
So I'm going to answer some listener questions. Uh, and listener,
I'm going to answer some listener questions about breakups that
we actually we actually put the feelers out for this
(29:53):
before my breakup, And isn't the universe funny like that? Okay,
so we have how long is too long to recover
from one? I haven't dated since my March breakup. Now,
that doesn't make me super hopeful to be honest from
my current situation, But I will say also disclaimer. In general,
(30:13):
I feel like breakup advice like it's all with a
grain of salt, because it's like every situation is so
different and looking back on like all my friends going
through breakups in the past, and all the times I
thought I knew like exactly what they need to do
with their lot, with their lives and what they needed
to focus on, and like that I had to convince
them not to go back to him or whatever. It's
(30:36):
like I didn't really know what the funk I was
talking about and we all can just share our experiences,
but it's never gonna like perfectly match a situation. I
think the healing part comes from just like people understanding
what you're going through. So how long is too long?
I don't think there's an answer to that. It's like
not dating when you don't want to is a really
(30:58):
wise choice, or when you don't feel ready to. And
I feel like people should do that for as long
as they need to. And I feel like if you're
still recovering, you should be kind to yourself. That's what
a lot of people have been telling me. And and
by the way, it's been like eight days for me. Um,
but uh but yeah, people have been telling me to
(31:20):
be kind to myself and and that's hard. That's hard.
Um Okay, So next question, how do you handle supporting
when two of your friends break up with each other.
I've been in this situation before. I think one thing
I did was tell both friends that I wasn't gonna
(31:43):
like tell I wasn't going to give any information about
the other person to that person, if that makes sense.
Like Friend A would talk to me about friend B
that they just broke up with, and I was like, Okay, well,
and they're like, how are they doing? I'm not going
to give that information, but I think you can just
support both people and listen, because that's that's really what
(32:03):
people need, is like listening and understanding. It's hard to
not like bridge over into like, oh yeah, I understand
what you're going through. And since I know that person,
I think they're probably feeling this one, you know what
I mean. But it's like I don't think that's helpful.
And I think also, like if you feel like you
need to like distance yourself from the situation, sometimes that's helpful.
Maybe this person like can get more out of their
(32:24):
friends that aren't connected to their ex. I personally struggle
a lot with like wanting to seek information from people
because I think, like, like when I go through a breakup,
it's like I think, if I get the right information
from someone, I'll be like, oh I understand this, when
when actually there's not really any understanding to be had
right now. Um. For example, I my current breakup, I
(32:47):
texted my exes friend like the day after the breakup,
and I was like, will you be willing to talk
to me? And he sent like the most perfect response,
which was like, um, I don't think that would be
helpful or fair, but like, I will always be here
for you type of thing. And also, don't worry, I
won't tell your ex that you reached out, which was
(33:08):
funny because it was kind of like it was like, hey,
um no. And also don't worry, I won't repeat how
psychotic you're being right now, and it kind of made
me realize how crazy it was it I even asked,
But yeah, I really struggle with like not seeking out information,
so I don't really have any wisdom in that area.
I'm still kind of trying to do it. Okay, let's see.
(33:30):
Well Beth Cohen, friend of the pod, says that she's
stumped because no one ever breaks up with her. Must
be nice. We also reached out and asked if people
had like recommendations or advice or thoughts in general on breakups,
and we got someone wrote, he blamed my family. Okay, well,
(33:54):
I think sometimes that's fair and sometimes that's not. I mean,
I think anyone should blame anyone else for like a breakup,
but families are complicated. I don't know. Someone recommended if
trying to hang out and fix ship read seven seven
Principles of Marriage don't need to be married to read
it UM or read whole again if you've been in
(34:17):
a semi toxic to extremely toxic relationship, I will look
into both of those. UM. I'm currently not able to
read because it's too silent, and so instead I watched
TikTok while watching TV. But when I'm able to consume
words on paper again, I will I will look into
those those books someone wrote poorn. Addiction or online cheating
(34:40):
seems to be more common than physical cheating. UM that
tracks thanks for sharing. Online cheating I assume is like,
I don't know if that's like an Ashley Madison situation
or if it's like a cat fishing situation. I do
know that that many people are victim to catfishing, including
(35:03):
Mary from Sister Wives and all the hundreds of thousands
of participants in the MTV reality show. So so yeah,
that makes sense. Poor an addiction, I don't know. I mean,
I can't imagine being addicted to UM. Well, I want
to say, I can't imagine being addicted to something so depressing. Meanwhile,
I'm like addicted to watching ninety fiance spinoffs where people
(35:25):
are like agreeing to marry big Ed just so they
can get a visa. So, oh, this is a good one.
Can you ever get over an act if you keep
talking to them? I wouldn't know the answer to that,
especially currently, but I do know people say that, like,
I mean, this is another one where it's like, I
(35:46):
think it's situation a situation. I think it's very easy
to say, like just no contact policy, and I have
definitely said that in the past. But I also have
been in situations where it's easier for me to like
not talk because I had feelings left for the person,
so I just was like, no, I don't want to
talk to you. I've also like not had feelings for
the person but felt like emotionally responsible for their needs
(36:09):
still and had excess reach out and like continue to
talk to them because I felt guilty. But that was
kind of like a dishonest unkindness situation where I was
just like I felt I was acting selfishly to try
to like make my guilt feel better instead of like
kind of setting a boundary that would have been helped
probably more helpful to the person if I was just
like listening, like I'm not the right person for you
(36:30):
to talk to right now. I do think that It's
like a lot of times, it's like the only thing
you want the person to say is I made a
mistake and I want to get back together with you.
And so when you're talking and the person is not
saying that, it can, in my direct experience, be really painful.
But it's also like it's also so much easier said
(36:53):
than done. It's like, I don't want to not talk
to this person, like at least we're talking at all,
you know, Like I don't know, I am not in
the most clear headed place to give this kind of advice,
but I will say that we're all doing the best
we can. It's really like it's kind of traumatizing to
like cease all contact with someone, especially when that person
(37:16):
was like one of the most important people in your
life for like a period of time. And that's hard.
I I don't know if you can ever get over
someone by not talking to them. I don't know how
you ever get over someone. I know what happens, I
just don't know how, And like, you know, I guess
like report back in the future. So that's a really
(37:37):
helpful and hopeful note to end on. I think and listen,
I am grateful for all of my friends. Right now,
I will say, like, female friendship is truly like the
most important thing in my life right now. I really
(37:59):
don't know what I would do without, like friends who,
when I call them crying, are like, Okay, I'm coming
over and getting snacks and like, do you want cigarettes?
And I don't know what I would do without friends
who are willing to like field my text messages, like
receive the text messages I want to send to him
and then tell me like, don't send that, and then
I'm like, well I already did, actually, um, But you know,
(38:20):
I'm just grateful for that, grateful for this pod. Thanks
for listening, and I hope you all have a better
Monday than I'm having right now. So Sorroanic Love, maybe baby,
(38:42):
don't leave me again. I want you
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