Breakup Tips (w/ Trina Leckie)

Devin and Carolina are joined by a real life BREAKUP COACH Trina Leckie to talk about all the gathered wisdom and tricks of the trade she has from teaching people how to BREAK UP and get Broken Up With. They also answer listeners questions about jealousy in a friends with benefits situation, and saying “I LOVE YOU” and only hearing “THANK YOU” back. Devin and Carolina also touch on Carolina turning 31 and as Cameron Diaz says “the gift of time”, as well as Devin’s TeleTubby years.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to true romance. This is Carolina Barlow,
and I am joined by my my little redheaded saint,
little angel, sweet Cookie, um My Cookie, Devin Learry. Okay,
I strongly disavow that nickname, but thanks Devin. I think

(00:38):
you're aware, and I know you're counting down the days. Um,
but I'm turning thirty one on April. Congratulations, believe it.
Congrat I have to say, um, after almost dying a
week before my eighth birthday, I have a completely different
view on age. I'm yes, I almost joined the twenti

(01:00):
seven club. I um. Now, I am just very grateful
I'm still here on planet Earth and can still participate
in birthdays. I can still be on Instagram, I can
sell my stuff on Posh Mark, I can take a
walk with my dogs. I can eat doughnuts. There's to do. Yeah,

(01:25):
so it's not it's okay to turn thirty one. I'm
I'm very grateful. That's a beautiful sentiment. And I am
grateful that you are turning thirty one and and that
it's not you. No, no, I don't even care about that.
I feel like, actually, I know that this will be

(01:48):
really annoying to everyone who's not in their twenties any anymore,
and they'll probably like, shut the funk up, you piece
of ship. And that's fine, but that's normally what people
feel like ground you. I know, as usual, the people
who listen to this podcast will think, I wish Devin
would shut the funk up because she's such a piece
of ship, piece of s No. But I feel so

(02:09):
done with my twenties. I'm in a huge place of
uncertainty right now, where I feel like I've chosen like
a career path that's not really like stable, and I'm
constantly questioning it. I have no way to plan for
my future. I'm like freelance looking for a job. I
have no idea when I'll have like good insurance again,

(02:32):
or like what. So I'm kind of over this twenties
part of my life. And I actually feel like the
pandemic has mentally aged me many years because when the
news came out that people thirty plus could get vaccinated
in New York, I texted it to one of my

(02:53):
best friends from high school and I was like, oh
my god, like we can get vaccinated and she was like,
I'm not thirty, I your age, And I was like wait,
we're not thirty. Like wait, we're still not even thirty.
Like this is so unfair. I don't think that's a
weird thing to say. I don't want to do my
twenties over again. You couldn't pay me. And I'm not

(03:16):
just saying that. I there's some times I miss. I
miss going and partying when partying was fun and good.
And I missed going out in New York City to
like a diner with you and Holly and Beth. I mean,
those are times I miss, but they have nothing really
to do with youth. They just have to do with
us all being together. And I don't miss being unsure.

(03:37):
But but I will say, everything you're going through is
stuff that most people go through. Everyone you see who's
been successful has at one point eaten pasta without being
able to afford sauce and being sick of butter pasta.
But it's only two dollars to buy a box, and

(03:59):
it's just is what it is, and and not knowing
if you'll be successful or even just stable, or will
have insurance. I think a lot of people go through that,
and we often feel alone, being so unsure of the future.
But it's actually just a part of I don't know,
staking your ground saying this is what I want to do. Okay, Well,

(04:20):
my one question for you is do you recall Hurricane
Sandy when we were in an apartment with no power
and no water and somehow your boyfriend at the time
made us pop butter pasta for dinner. I just want
to shout out again to you. Oni Shreira, one of
the best x is in the game, just a very

(04:40):
very sweet man, and I will say starting to date
him in a blackout in a hurricane was one of
the more romantic times in my life. And I will
forgive the fact that everyone in the house was so
mean to me and we were all ratcheting cigarettes and
hiding them from each other because we are running out,
and I remember, don't get me okay, don't get started
on how I do this cigarette? Want me to even

(05:02):
go there, because this is one of your worst agregiousies
agregiousnesses in all time. Devin and our friend Holly hate
that I can smoke half a cigarette and then throw
it out because they think I'm wasting cigarettes, which I
think it's fact you a cigarette is a dollar, at
at least for in the city. A pack of cigarette

(05:23):
is fourteen dollars divided my ten cigarettes, So a cigarette
is a dollar fifty smoking half of it is wasting
seventy cents. Okay, I hear you, and I it was.
And what do women make seventy five cents on the dollar,
So it's wasting a dollar. It was also just really
bad because we're running out of cigarettes. It was so
funny though, because we were people were hiding cigarettes in

(05:45):
Devon's apartment. I opened up a medicine cabinet and saw
a little pile of cigarettes that someone had been hiding.
And then we like walked through the store of looking
for a bodega, Like we braved it. We braved the
storm to try to find an u in bodega for cigarettes,
and I was terrified. I'm not gonna lie. You could
make it. You could make an entire HBO series like

(06:06):
Tremay just about the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy when we
were trying to find cigarettes. Just kidding, that's offensive, but
I still think that it was really hard. It was
a wild time. So yeah, those were times in my twenties.
I miss the hurricanes, the blackouts, the kisses in the dark,

(06:27):
the wasting cigarettes and having you in a holly scream
at me. And I don't know if I'll get that
in my thirties. I miss the community of my early twenties.
But what I think is funny is how my parents
got together when they're really young. They had us when
they were super young. When my parents were my age,
they had two kids at this point. I can't believe

(06:50):
I thought I was going to have kids and be
married at thirty one. I don't know how to make
myself a good cup of coffee. I know how to
make coffee. Okay, well that is yikes. No, I know
my mom also had two kids by now, and I'm
just like, wait, what in God's name? Because I literally
am like accidentally investing in cryptocurrency when I'm in debt.

(07:11):
So I don't like understand how I would care for anything,
although I did almost text you right before this podcast
and say like, Okay, what if we fostered a dog,
you and I and the dog was pregnant and then
it had puppies and then we raised puppies together, like
just for a fun like thing to do in the summer. Yeah,

(07:33):
I would love to do that. I mean, my dream
is to one day live on a communal farm and
have you next door? Yeah, I can pop over and say,
will you take care of my children for a week.
I want to go to Atlantic City and burn ship
down because I just got we just went through a
painful divorce, and you'd be like, yeah, of course no.
I would be like, Okay, they'll stay with their dad.

(07:55):
I am coming to Atlantic City. We are talking about
breakups today, speaking in my future, pay in full divorce,
speaking of Atlantic City. We just wanted to talk about
We get so many questions about should I break up,
should I stay together, should I go on a social
media still, or should I throw my phone into the ocean.

(08:15):
And so we got the opportunity to talk to a
breakup coach who is a pro at knowing what to
do in these situations. But we realized after the fact
that we haven't yet on our podcast touched on leaving
an abusive or an emotionally abusive situation. And I mean,

(08:36):
I think I can speak for Devon and myself when
I say we do not feel like we have the
authority or that we can step on a soapbox and
say how to exit a situation that is um emotionally
belittling or God forbid, physically dangerous. UM. We want to

(08:56):
someday talk to someone who UM can give us advice
on how to do that ourselves, or how to talk
to a friend who's going through that. But it's interesting
because it reminds me of the the clip from the
Gail King FK twigs interview that we actually posted on
our Instagram, which was Gail King saying, and to Gail's credit,

(09:19):
she said, I don't know, I don't think. I don't
know if this is appropriate to ask, but why didn't
you leave? And FK Twiggs replies, I think we have
to stop asking that question. And I know you're asking
it out of love, but I'm just gonna answer. I'm
not going to answer that question anymore because the question
should really be to the abuser. Why are you holding

(09:41):
someone hostage with abuse? And I I loved this point.
I thought this was so powerful, she said. People say
it can have been that bad because you would just leave,
you would have left, and it's actually because it was
that bad that I couldn't leave. It just reminds me.

(10:02):
It just makes me think of being an in the
eye of a tornado and people saying like get out,
like walk away from the eye of the tornado, that's
encompassing your whole life. Yeah, I totally agree, Carolina with
everything that you just said. And I think the reason
that FK twigs clip went so viral is because it's

(10:22):
still so prevalent for people to respond to situations of
abuse by saying why did that person stay? Or they
should have just left, or if like you said, if um,
if it really was that bad, they would have just left.
I think that's still like a really common sentiment. And
so I I almost don't even blame Gail or some

(10:44):
people for for thinking or asking that, because it's so
like mainstream in our consciousness. So that's why I think
it was so important and like powerful that FKA Twigs
explained why that question shouldn't be asked. Well, it was
Also it's also the idea that abuse is a female problem,
it's not a male problem. What are we going to

(11:06):
do about it? How are we going to get out
of these relationships? Because it's on us to protect ourselves
from abuse, rather than on abusers to stop being fucking monsters.
I think if most people were to stop and like
reflect on their past relationships, or if a lot of
people were to stop and reflect on that, or even
just like hookups or casual things, most of us have

(11:28):
an experience that we can't explain why we stayed in
it for so long, Like most of us have an
experience where we talk about a behavior that happened and
people are like, really you put up with that? Why?
Or like just someone we kept going back to, or
and it feels, at least speaking for myself from personal experience,
it's it feels inexplicable, Like it feels like I don't know,
it's a mystery to me too, Like I don't know

(11:50):
why that was so hard to see. But um, so yeah,
I think that we like to separate ourselves from these
narratives like that wouldn't were happening to me. I'm not
that type of person. And I think that's like a
huge part of the problem because that it's not about
a type of person. It's not about like the victim
at all. Really, it's about the perpetrators. So yeah, I

(12:11):
watched Oprah Amy Schumer interview where they were both saying
that they almost didn't believe they're victims of abuse because
they had an idea of what a victim of abuse
looked like, and I thought, I'm not her. Yeah, I
mean I think a few things. A. I get nervous
talking about this subject on the podcast because I've had
so many amazing boyfriends that I worry that people think

(12:32):
that I'm speaking on behalf of all men when I'm
really speaking about specific experiences that some women go through
that have nothing to do with the women who are
going through it. Anyone reacts that way, the human mind
is very vulnerable. And I also think that. I think
about the Ryan Adams New York Times expose, and I
read that expose a three times because I had never

(12:57):
heard someone being condemned for emotional abuse use in a
major publication and belittling someone and threatening to hurt himself
if they had, if they didn't, if they left or
wouldn't leave a room to call him, and and um,
I just thought, that's not physical abuse, but it's similar

(13:18):
to some weird, manipulative, conniving dynamics people go through. And
it also reminded me of how we don't know what
someone's relationship looks like ever, and because we're not alone
with that couple, and how as a friend, sometimes the

(13:39):
most loving thing you can do is being there no
matter what, and not passing judgment on some on why
someone is staying, and only encouraging that person that you
are there no matter what. And I think that people.
I hope our listeners have been listening to this podcast
long enough to know that book Stepan and I would
never judge someone who's having trouble leaving an unhappy relationship. Yeah,

(14:02):
I think people often stay in things too long. I
rarely hear about someone leaving before they should right like
at the exact right time and having no regrets, even
though my last two relationships were had really healthy breakups
and we didn't, but that was because of my early
my very early relationships, when we really fought the process

(14:24):
of ending things and and UM and when I was
in you know, college and my very early twenties, I
didn't know that endings could be okay, so we me
and my partners at that time fought them until they
were really ugly. I think all of this is to
say that this interview that we did UM that you'll
hear on on this episode today was really just like

(14:46):
a light and fun conversation that we really enjoyed about
pretty much like basic breakup stuff and relationships ending that
aren't as complicated as the ones we just talked about
where there's abuse in involved, and we wanted to clarify
that and and clarify that it is important to us
to discuss more complicated and dangerous situations and more layered

(15:11):
issues within the umbrella of leaving a relationship. So we
will make a commitment to do that. Um. But we
also really loved this conversation and we're excited for you
guys to hear it. I also want to just go
over some listener questions before our interview begins. Yes, we
have some really good ones. One is from Maria. She says, Hello,

(15:33):
Carolina and Devon. I was wondering if you could talk
about saying I love you to someone first and not
hearing it back. I have too much experience with this,
she says. I've been dating someone on and off for
about a year, but it's gotten more serious over the
last few months. And yeah, I love the guy. Okay.

(15:53):
I told him recently, and he said, while he has
strong feelings for me, is committed to continuing to evolve
our relationship, he's not quite ready to say it to
me yet. I told him I was proud of how
I felt and then I wanted to share it with him,
But my ego is a bit bruised. How do you
cope with feeling and secure about not hearing it back

(16:15):
At the same time, I'm trying to stay grounded and
that people express love in different ways and feel comfortable
and feel comfortable saying it at different rates. I should
trust that he will get there if our relationship continues
to progress as it is, because it's loving and wonderful.
But it's hard. Obviously I've been through this multiple times
because I can't. I have only now, in my early thirties,

(16:37):
been able to not say something that's on my mind.
But this relationship sounds great. I love how he responded.
I love that he was honest. That means that when
he does say I love you, you can really take
that in because he's not saying it blithely. He's not
saying it just to keep things even keel. He wants
to build a really good foundation with you, and it

(17:00):
sounds like this relationship is progressing. I sometimes have treated
I love you is like, okay, we should say I
love you now so I can feel safe. And I
have loved the people I've said I love you too.
But one thing that sounds wild but that I am
okay with and I think it's weird thinking it from
a female perspective. From then from a male perspective, is

(17:22):
what if my love for someone doesn't have to be
at the perfect time for them. What if it doesn't
have to be reciprocated immediately for it to be a
good relationship. So I in my last relationship, I knew
I was in love with this person. I think within
a month of dating them, I was just head over
heels and I knew they weren't there yet. And that

(17:44):
sounds insane, but I just knew it. And and when
I said is that person a few months later, which
I was like, okay, it was actually because North Korea
had like a nuclear missile or something, and I was
worried that the world was gonna end before I told
it to them. So I told it to them, and um,
Kim Jong n I guess heard that and decided not
to launch a nuclear missile. But I was, as you're describing,

(18:10):
so insecure afterwards. I think I even texted Devon. I
was just like, why, why, why Why did I do this?
Nancy Carragan voice, What if I loved him at that point,
and he wasn't ready to say it back, and he
said a very similar thing to what your boyfriend said.
And what if that's okay? Yeah, if I truly love someone,
can I seek to love them first and it? Can?
I be okay with that? And I can I love

(18:31):
them without being self seeking or needing it back immediately?
Sort of? Can I love them for free? Yeah? I
think that this one is Caroline is at a much
more evolved place with stuff like this than I am,
because I relate so strongly to this email. But I
still am very much like stuck on ideas like if
you know then you know, so like just say it

(18:53):
if you know, you know what I mean. Like, I
still fall into those patterns a lot where I feel
like Loria Gilmore in the eisode of Gilmore Girls where
she talks to Luke and they're like engaged, but they
haven't set a date for the wedding. They keep pushing
it off, and she like comes to talk to him
in the middle of the night and she's like, let's

(19:14):
go to Vegas right now, Let's alope right now, like
let's get married right now, and he's kind of hesitates,
and she basically is like, if you're not ready now,
then you don't love me enough, and I don't want
to go through with this. At the time that I
first watched that, or I guess I should say the
first seven or so times that I watched that episode,
I thought that she was like crazy, and I I

(19:36):
was like, well, okay, that's so unfair. You can't just
like go up someone in the middle of the night
and be like marry me now whatever. I still now
at this point, like I kind of feel like, well,
he should have been able to I love that proposal. Yeah,
Like I I don't know. I do feel like the
person you're with should be able to say after a
certain point, they should be able to say whether they

(19:58):
want to be with you forever and ut but I
will say at the beginning, like at the very early
on process that you're talking about this email, I I
don't think that's the case. I think it it takes
people a lot of time to catch up to each
other with this stuff. And I also think that, um,
it depends so much on like your past experiences, and
it passed like who knows if this person you're with

(20:20):
had past experiences saying they love someone that didn't work out,
and who knows. So I think that I agree with Carolina.
This sounds like a great partner who had a great
response to you. I love how you said that you're
proud of how you felt and that you said it.
I totally agree that it's a beautiful thing that you
shared that, and like that's all you should look at
it as um. And the thing that I always try

(20:42):
to remember is like, these are the facts, and that's
that's all I have to work with. I don't have
to create a narrative otherwise. So like the fact is
you love this person and you told them that and
you're happy, you're in a happy relationship with them. This
person said that they have strong feelings for you, So
like you don't have to go into narratives of like

(21:02):
what I would tend to do, which is like, well
then does he not love me as much as I
love him? And then like well what am I just
like waiting for the bomb to go off where he
says he's not whatever, Like all that stuff is a
waste of time because that will be revealed eventually and
you don't have to control it. So just like try
to be present, like you said, with feeling proud of
how you feel and and just trust the process, as

(21:24):
as hard as that is. Sometimes. There was someone recently
who I heard talking about how she loved her husband
more than he loved her, and she didn't care they
have two kids. She said something like, I know he'll
think that. If he was here, he would say, what
are you talking about? I love you so much? And
she was like, no, I'm obsessed with him. I get
so excited when he texted me da dada. I think

(21:47):
that sounds like a really happy relationship. And I would
just guard against when you're mad or when you guys
have a small thing, not blowing it up to oh
this is because I love you and you don't love me,
because that's all one narrative to get stuck in. That's
also what I always say when Carolina and I disagree
about what we're going to talk about on the podcast,
I say, oh, this is because I told you I

(22:09):
loved you and you said you don't love me. Isn't
that so funny? What if that happened with friendships where
I was like, um, when a reality girls say I
love you like after one night, like drunk in a
bathroom together, I know I was gonna say it definitely
has happened to me where like I'm not really close
with a girl and she'll say like, okay, love you girl,
and I'm like, oh shit, shit, No you don't slowly

(22:31):
slither out of the room, walk away backwards and slow motion. Please, no, no, no.
So I we have another quick question before we go
to our interview. This one is from Emily. She says,
Carolina and Devon, I have a question. I have been
seeing this guy from Tinder for a couple of months
and went in not wanting a relationship because I'm only twenty. Okay, wow,

(22:54):
and we'll be moving moving to New York this summer. Okay, congratulations,
best decision you've ever made. However, I seem to have
caught stupid feelings and found myself getting super jealous when
he went on a trip to the beach with six
of his female friends this last weekend. Okay mm hmm.
I know he had a history with one and didn't

(23:14):
know how to address my feelings with him without sounding clingy.
I find myself wanting commitment but not a relationship, which
seems unfair of me, but I don't know how to
handle it. Help, So Basically, she's like having a casual
thing with this person, but then noticed herself feeling jealous
even though they're not in a relationship, which I definitely
have experienced with. I wanna talk about something my therapist

(23:38):
told me. So, when a woman has an orgasm with
a man, yes, she is, regardless of whether she wants
to be or not. The oxytoastin that is set off
during that orgasm makes her attached to him emotionally for
three weeks. And I'll explain why. When you were a

(23:58):
cave girl and you met a cave boy back in
the cave, the cave days, if you've ever seen the Leftovers,
you know what we're talking about. Hey, if you ever
seen the flint Stones, we're talking back in the flint
stone days, when there was cave women and cave men
and they had a good time together. There was no
such thing as a pregnancy test. What there wasn't great

(24:20):
birth control basically, for history is crazy. Can I just
say that history is crazy? Okay, go ahead. For three weeks,
the woman didn't know whether she was pregnant or not.
She was waiting for her next period. We've all been there.
We've definitely been there for those three weeks, she was
thinking about how she might have to couple up with
this guy so he could protect her and her baby.

(24:44):
For men, after they have an orgasm, how long are
they emotionally attached to the woman? Three days? Obviously this
doesn't apply if they're in love or committed. Wait, I've
never even experienced like three seconds. Okay, yes you have,
but that's true. But I'm just saying, like it seems
more like three seconds. So some of this I'm just

(25:06):
saying can be biology, some of it's physical. It explains
why you can be hucking up with a guy, not
liking him at all, and still wanting him to reach
out to you. And it's why quote unquote, good Dick
is a prison. So what's that quote from? I actually
think my mom told it to me, so I completely

(25:27):
understand the situation. I will say I would get your
feelings down on paper because sometimes it is it's also
scary to be making a big move like this, So
sometimes we reach for something and just something to feel stable,
and we want a relationship during times that we feel
really insecure about other things. What is New York going

(25:47):
to be like? What is my career going to be like?
And just acknowledge what you emotionally want. And also it
sounds like you're very cognizant that you're feelings and um
intentions aren't matching up. And that's okay. You can be jealous,
you can be annoyed. It will not kill you. But

(26:09):
I have been in situations before where I have let
my confusion play out in a situation that's ended up
hurting the other person. So I've been very murky and
the other person is very unclear, like, wait, why are
you telling me that I can't be with other girls
but you don't want to be with me? Yeah, I,
as I've showed on the podcast before, one of my

(26:30):
my clearly stated concerns about moving from New York to
l A was, as I said to many friends, I
knew I had a crush in New York, but I
didn't know if I would have a crush in l A.
So that freaked me out. And at the time when
I moved, I was like engaging in all this self
destructive behavior and like doing old just kind of like

(26:50):
stuff that I thought I had matured past. And my
therapist pointed out that I was probably looking for distractions
because I devon was dressing up as a teletubby and
going to tell atubby conventions, and she was like, I
thought I was over the teletubby. I thought I was
done with this. I thought I would never put the
teletubby suit back on. I thought I would never have

(27:11):
a heat stroke in a teletubby suit again. But there
I was. I call on like emergency session s OS therapist. Okay,
I'm in the teletubby suit and yeah, I had a
heat stroke and yeah, now I'm back awake, drinking water.
What do I do? Uh No. But but it was
a really helpful piece of advice. She basically was like,
sometimes if you have like a big, overarching, overwhelming problem,

(27:33):
you look for like little distracting problems to be like, oh,
I can just focus on that. Yeah. So I was like, Okay,
like I'm being immature, I'm doing this stupid stuff, and
she was like, that's not the real issue. The real
issue is that you're like doing a really big deal
of a thing which is moving across the country, which
is really exciting, but you're like overwhelmed, so you're looking
for a distraction. Anyway, that was like one of the
most helpful piece of advice I've ever gotten. And I

(27:56):
do think that like sticking with your instincts and not
adding confusion to a situation is for the best. And
if you're meant to be with this person, that will
be revealed. And I mean, it seems like you're doing
the right things because instead of like reacting when you
were jealous about this weird trip, you went on with
six female friends, which, by the way, interesting, is he

(28:19):
is he the next bachelor? Yeah? Like is he in Lahoya, California? No?
I just think, yeah, like, instead of reacting, you reached
out for help, which is great, and just keep doing that.
And Welcome to New York. It's been waiting for you.
Welcome to New York. Welcome to New York. Boys can

(28:40):
be with boys, Girls can be with girls. Yes, that
is from civil rights icon Taylor Swift. Wait is that
in the song? Yes? Dang Okay. We are going to
be right back with an amazing interview that I am
going to play next time I meet a guy who
judges me for my telentubby's background. We'll be right back. Oh,

(29:12):
welcome back to True Romance. Let's get into our guests
for the day. So today on True Romance, So we
have a very exciting guest who is an expert expert
people not like me and Devon on all things break up.
She's a breakup coach and host of the popular podcast
Breakup Boost. Please welcome to the pod, Trina Lucky. Hey, guys,

(29:40):
thanks for being with us. I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you for having me on. I think a lot
of our listeners and I myself had never heard of
a breakup coach before, and we're wondering, is this a
field that exists or do you realize that there was
a niche that was missing. Well when I first came

(30:00):
but the idea, I had never actually heard of it,
and I thought, oh my god, this is genius. So
I got really excited about it. I had googled it
later and then discovered that there was some other people
doing it as well. But I think it's just over
the last couple of years it's got more popular. I
think a lot of people see breakup coach on Instagram
or something, and then they suddenly think, oh, I could

(30:20):
do that too, and then it just kind of, you know,
everyone suddenly has that career, you know. But yeah, so
that's kind of how it went down. It's brilliant, because
it's like I need someone to tell me how to
work out, like I need to go to a class
or take a YouTube video or something. And then I
feel like when an end of a relationship is happening,

(30:41):
you just feel like this, I have no idea where
to begin. Yeah, especially because when you're the one going
through it, and when you're the one in it and
it's your emotions, you can't think straight, right. You know,
so many people it's so easy to give other people
advice and tell them, oh, well, just this or that
or you know, do this, and it's so different when

(31:01):
you're the one in it, right, And it's the kind
of thing where you can't even remember how bad it
felt at the time when you're going through it, and
unless you're actually in it at that moment, you know,
because it's the worst feeling. Heartbreak sucks. It is the
worst feeling possible. And I think that we've all been
in situations where we know the right thing to do
in a relationship or in a breakup and we just

(31:23):
cannot do it. We just cannot like, well, I'm just like, no,
I know I'm doing the wrong thing, or I know
that this is not going to work out, but I
just there's not there's physically an emotionally not a way
for me to do anything different because my emotions are
running so high. Yeah, exactly. Well, a huge part of
it is confidence. And the thing is there's such a

(31:45):
different speech. But if you really do value yourself and
you really do believe you deserve better, you're going to
be more likely to walk away from a bad situation.
It's when you don't feel like you actually do deserve more.
You know, it's one thing. I say, it's one thing
to go click I deserve the world on Instagram posts,
but are you actually living that life right? And so

(32:08):
confidence is everything? You know, it all boils down to confidence. Yeah,
I know it's hard. Like even since we started this podcast,
I feel like, you know, not to humble bag. But
sometimes people will write in and say like, thank you
for giving this advice about this specific thing on the podcast,
it really helped me, or like thank you for talking

(32:29):
about this, And I always think like, Okay, some of
these things, I know the advice, and I can give
the advice, but I can't necessarily practice it in my
own life because it's so much harder. I know, I
think on one podcast episode, I said something like go
out there and just like you can do it. And
I can't wait to just go out after the pandemic
and just flirt with guys. And I was literally lying

(32:50):
in my bed the other night thinking about like, Okay,
I'll wear that outfit, I'll go to a bar. No,
I'll go home. That is terrifying. Were you always someone
that your friends like relied on for breakup advice? I
feel like Carolina was always the person for me that
I immediately call if I had any like relationship problems, um?

(33:12):
Or were you that person for many of your friends?
Did that like contribute to your career path? Um? I
don't think it really contributed to my career path, but
I kind of was always the voice of reason, you know.
And I'm kind of like the way I am. I'm
a straight shooter, and a lot of people they're scared
to be too honest. They're scared, oh, I can't say
this because this person is gonna be bad. And I'm

(33:34):
just very direct and honest yet compassionate, you know. So, UM,
I like offering my advice because I don't like seeing
people struggle and suffer, you know. And I think if
you're a really true friend, You're gonna you're gonna do that,
so um it kind of just yeah, it's it's not
that that influenced me, but it was funny because a
lot of people would always be like, you're so good
at this, you should be a coach, you know, and

(33:54):
so or they'll be or they'll be people I'll meet
just randomly or through another work thing, and they don't
even know I'm doing this, and then they just start
divulging everything to me, and then by the end of it,
they're like, you should do this for a living. I'm like,
actually I do. They're like, what, that's pretty cool. Yeah.
Was there a particular heartbreak experience that you went through
or watch someone else go through that led to this work?

(34:17):
I I I went through a really bad breakup in
New York that was borderline famous. And what I mean,
some people I didn't know came up to me saying,
I went, I'm I'm going through a breakup right now
and it's really bad, and I heard you went through
a really bad one. And I would like light a
cigarette and be like, sit down, sweetie, buckle up. Is

(34:40):
it's gonna be a doozy for me? No, Like clearly,
I've I feel like I've pretty much experienced everything, like
everything hell is she could imagine, and good things and
everything in between. But and a lot of people it's
funny because they'll say, oh my god, you must have
really got your heartbroken, and I'm just like, I've excuse me,
haven't we all? Like everybody's got their heartbroken whether you

(35:02):
broke up? Are you the one breaking up? Like? Your
starts still gonna get broken? Right? So I was actually
in a really good place when I came up with
this idea, because even if I was in a really
low place or like sulking a bit, I would even
have the motivation or energy to start this, you know.
So it basically just stemmed from a place of knowing,
like knowing how much it sucks to go through and

(35:22):
wanting to be a support system because I know they're
need There's people need support over there, you know, they
just they just do. I think Devin and I talk
about this a lot, and it's something that I find
really interesting, which is if I figure out this part
of my life, I have room for other parts. So
it's like it's sort of like if you're sick, right,

(35:45):
and I have to get healthy so I can I
can go to work and I have, and so I
can explore hobbies and export like you were saying, like
a career path, and and be healthy enough for those things.
And so one of the reasons Devin and I wanted
to start this podcast is because these things, and we've
had it ourselves, can consume you if you don't know
what to do. Yeah, it's like, I've had issues with

(36:08):
food over my life, over the course of my life
that I've been really serious, and when I look back
on them, I'm like, thank God I'm healthy now because
that took so much of my time. Oh. Absolutely, Like
it just it sucks the life at you. I mean,
I know when I've gone through my own breakups are
relationship problems, even you don't have any energy, you feel

(36:28):
so low, your anxieties through the roof. You know, like
you can't concentrate, and you don't you you just don't
feel like yourself anymore. And so yeah, it's it really
puts a damper on everything. It's a rippling effect. You know,
it's going to affect everything. It's not like, Okay, all
this stuff sucks, but then I'm just going to be
so amazing and chipper and the rest of my life. Like,
it's just it affects everything, right, So what if you

(36:50):
had to describe your approach to breakups in three words,
what would they be? Definitely and fin Nike. Yeah, um,
that's a good one actually, Um, definitely no sugarcoating, um, compassionate,

(37:10):
and empowering because I'm all about it's not just with me.
It's not just about getting you through this breakup. It's
about fixing everything within and building yourself help from within
and not feeling like you even need somebody that bad.
You know, so many people are just like, oh my god,
I need to find someone, and oh I'm at the
stage I need to find someone, and there's like this
panic and family and so settle pressure and all these

(37:33):
things going on, and you know, it's just it's just
not necessary. We ask a lot of our guests this question,
what was the best piece of relationship or breakup advice
that you've given and that you've received. Okay, So in
terms of given, there's just I mean, there's endless pieces, right,
because there's just so many parts. But I would say

(37:55):
one of the key pieces is that I would give
people is go with the flow of life, right. Stop
trying to force things that aren't working. It's just a
dead end. It's you're wasting time, right, So just be
confident that you know what, this isn't working because something
else better is down the road where you're being redirected
to something else, you know, and when you can actually

(38:16):
get in that mindset, actually live that way, your life
is so much easier and you're going to be more free.
But it's hard to get to that point for a
lot of people because you can tell them that and
they're like, oh yeah, but then two seconds later they're like,
oh my god, panicking again. You know. In terms of
something that I saw, a piece of advice that I
got that really resonated with me, I would say that

(38:36):
it was something I read one day and this is
before I started breakup coaching. But in terms of accountability,
because so many times, like I've been in situations in
the past where you know, you end up saying, oh
my god, like I did all these things for this
person or they did this to me again, and oh,
they're not doing this, and they're not doing that, they're
not listening, they're not they don't care, on and on

(38:57):
and on. But it's like, wait a second, but you
have the choice to be in that relationship, right, So
it's always a choice, right. So when that really set in,
it's like a real aha moment. And then it's also
very empowering because then you realize, wait a second, I
actually don't have to settle for this crap. It's my choice. Yeah.
That is something that Carolina definitely has told me a

(39:20):
few times. It is like, you can either stay and
deal with this or you don't have to, and it
is so simple. But at the times that she said
that to me, like my mind was blown because I
was like, no, this is my life and I don't
know what you're talking about. Well, when I was like
in my very early twenties, is like ten years ago,

(39:42):
I was like, you said, just caught up in the Okay.
Then he did this, and so then I was forced
to say this. And then you know, we were screaming
at each other in the middle of the street at
two am. And I remember I talked to my friend
about it, expecting her to be like what, Oh my god,
and then oh my god, he is the worst. Okay, yeah,

(40:04):
and then what really affected me is that she just
smiled and nodded and said, okay, well you can keep
doing this or you don't have to. And I was like,
and then she literally had to go, so she hopped
in a cab and I was like, sounds like a movie.
It was. It was a life changing moment because I

(40:25):
was and it's the advice that I passed on to everyone,
like people, Yeah, we'll be like I'm trying to get
my X sober or I'm trying to whatever, and I'm like, okay,
well you can figure out how to get someone who's
cheating on you to you know, if you really want this,
if you think that this is meant to be, and
I've seen people get married who have had really toxic courtships,

(40:47):
I'll be like, good for it, go go do it.
But it takes a lot of effort. It takes a
lot of emotional energy that could be spent elsewhere, and
you don't have no one's forcing you to. But I
was going to say that I love your go with
the flow thing, because I think for me, one of
the hardest things about breakups is that I am a planner,

(41:07):
Like I love going on zillo, I love looking at houses.
I am not even like a huge wedding person Like,
I don't like the princess gowns or anything, but I
like the idea of planning a party, and so I
even like I could see myself eloping, but I still
like to play on the elopement. So basically what I'm
saying is I have this fantasy that I'll try and

(41:29):
force even when it's clear that life is not heading
in that direction. And that's something cornest part is like
mourning that dream a little bit. Well, but that a
huge problem with that too is like you said, it's
that it's an event. It's a one day event. There's
so much more that people don't even think about their
thinking about, you know, uploading engagement photos and planning this

(41:51):
wedding and checking off that box. There's so much about
checking off that box when people are completely clueless, like
they didn't really realize. Wait a second, the next day,
if we had problems, wait a second, they're still there.
Only were legally tied. And now we can't even just
break up. We're like literally have to go through this
big briga moroll and higher lawyers and on and on,
and I'm like, there's just so much involved. People don't

(42:13):
know whether we're getting themselves into for the most part,
and it's that fairy tale that's been sold since we
were kids, that, you know, gay, you're gonna grow up,
you're gonna get married, you're gonna have kids, you're gonna
have the wedding, and it's just it's so ingrained in us,
you know, especially when a woman turns like a out thirty,
there's just this huge amount of pressure and then I

(42:33):
didn't and it's just like, I just wish so many
more people would let go of that, because honestly, when
you get older and past that, you're just like, oh
my god, thank god I didn't end up with so
and so or you just it's this life that you
look at life so much differently than you know when
you're like in your twenties or even thirties, Like it's

(42:54):
just it's just you see things so much differently, and
it's freeing. You know, you don't you you want to
stay more true to yourself versus getting all caught up
in something that you're getting you know, you're getting in
over your head about, because that's that's why so many
people end up getting divorced then and even if they're
not getting divorced. Just because people just because don't get divorced,

(43:17):
it doesn't mean that they're happy, Like, how many many
of those are actually happy? Happy? You know, seriously, you know,
that's such a good point. I think some of the
best wedding advice I got was actually from the comedian
Will Ferrell, and he said, it's something I love, which
is that if you're going to get married, make sure

(43:39):
both parties are really into it. Because Will is in
that ten percent of couples who are so happy and
both him and his wife I love their marriage, are
very excited about like spending time with each other m hm.
And that's and that's a rare thing. That's a aful thing.

(44:00):
But it's also you know, it's also a rare thing.
And there's so many people to who think that, you know,
getting married is going to fix a broken relationship, you know,
or having that baby is going to fix things, or
you know, oh, they're not going to cheat on me
if we're married, and you know, like it's just like
goes on and on and on, so that you really
have to you have to be invested. I'm so curious

(44:22):
because we actually get a lot of questions about after
the breakup on x IS and what are your thoughts
on staying in contact with the next My thought is
if you don't like, if you don't actually want to
move on, if I'm your heartbreak and you want to
stay stuck, sure stay in contact. You know, doc them, men,
call them and text them and on and on and on.

(44:44):
You know. The key to moving on from our relationship
is no contact. You should not be in contact and
so and that includes viewing their social media and their
friends social media, and their Venmo and their PayPal and
they're and their posh mark, their posh mark. Oh my god,

(45:06):
it's so hard. It's like I do try to have
no contact, but every breakup that I've been through, I've
been like, that's my thing. I I'm gonna we're gonna
have no contact, and that's I know, that's the best
way to do it, and that's how we're going to
do it. And then every time it's just so hard
because I don't know, like this feeling just comes over

(45:27):
of Sometimes it's like did I make a mistake? But
other times it's like what if this person is not okay?
What if they need me? Like that codependent thing? And
I had a friend one time, give me the advice
of like you already, because I was like, this person
needs me. They keep calling me, they keep texting me,
Like I have to respond. I'm worried about them. And
she was like, you already did the right thing. You

(45:48):
You were honest with this person and said you don't
want to be in a relationship with them anymore. So
that's all you have to do. Like why would you
have to keep talking? And I was like, oh, yeah,
I guess that's but it's just hard when someone reaches
out to you. I think that it's just even harder
to set a boundary. But I do agree that it's
the only way to safely move on. Well, that's the thing,

(46:11):
and that's why, you know, that's why I often say,
like after a breakup, you should literally block the person.
It's not so much like it's all hostile. And you
know a lot of people say, oh, it's immature and petty.
That's just because they don't have the strength to do
it right. That's those are the people who are saying
that because it's too easy to get caught up. It
doesn't matter what you stay to yourself or the self talk,
it's too easy to get caught up again. If someone

(46:34):
reaches out and you know, you could think, well, oh
I don't think I hear this all the time people say, oh,
well I don't think they're going to reach out. It's like, okay,
just block them that, you know, like you have to block.
Then you're just trying to rationalize make excuses for why
you're not blocking it, you know, and it's just you
don't want to get into a point where Okay, you
made it thirty days and you're feeling so much better

(46:55):
and then suddenly got stuck back in or maybe when
I was drinking one night, you end up at our
house and you sleep with them, like it's just bad decisions,
you know, like you know, and so no contact it's
for yourself, right, and that's how it should be looked at.
You have to prioritize yourself and that's what you know.
It's just it's a world of difference. Like so many
people who who reach out to me and they just think, oh,

(47:19):
I can't do it, I'll never get through, and I
just like, you have to do it right. The second
they break no contact, they regret it. So it's either
like you know, but it once they do what they're like,
oh my god, that I can't believe it worked. You know,
it does work. You just need the time and distance
to get your emotions in check and get that clarity,
and it's it's amazing. It makes a world of difference.

(47:40):
I love that, and I'm a huge proponent, fan champion
of blocking. I think it's actually feeling thing to do.
And I totally hear you when you say some people
think it's petty or immature, and that's what used to
in college and stuff. I just wanted my ex to
know that, oh, I don't care or if you see

(48:00):
me in fact, like I'm so over it that you
can watch these pictures of me, like with my arm
around some guy at a party, Like, but then all
of my energy would be to putting up this front
and and basically like posting revenge picks or look how
much fun I'm having or et cetera. And I realized

(48:25):
that I was scared to look petty only to them.
No one else is following my social media movements, you know,
And so yeah, I block. I blocked their friends. And
that was something that used to scare me too, was
like then their friends will think I'm being crazy and
it's like, who cares? Again, Like this is for me,

(48:45):
This is for me. Not to stop looking back, because
I want to make space for what's to come exactly exactly.
And the friend thing too. One thing that really annoys
me is stay a girl contexts me and her boyfriend
cheated on her, and her friends are still connected with
this girl's boyfriend and social media. I'm just like, what
kind of friends are these? Like get rid of this

(49:06):
guy even if he didn't cheat, Get rid of him,
like put yourself in her shoes, you know. Stuff like
that just irks me because I don't think that's cool.
But one of the hardest parts of breakups for me
is that you do end up spending a lot of
time with your boyfriend's friends, and so when you break up,
it's like, and it's happened to me in every single

(49:27):
breakup since I was literally sixteen seventeen, is your you
feel like, I'm not just breaking up with this partner,
I'm not just getting dumped by this partner. What do
I do on Saturdays? That we would spend the whole
day together with their friends, and so I have to
say goodbye to them too, And and it's sort of
like yeah, unless they're your friends first or whatever. I mean,

(49:52):
that's something I'm interesting. What is your perspective on that
in terms of like the separation of things. Yeah, it's definitely,
it's definitely and not easy, um, but it's just it's
part of it. It's just like the same thing could
be said for family. People get attached to families, you know,
and then you know, people contact me and they're saying
they're still in contact with their ex as parents and not,

(50:12):
and I's just like, this is just not good, you know,
and the parents should be shouldn't be doing that either.
It's kind of just you know, yeah, it sucks, but
you kind of have to cut ties. Like, you know,
if it's different if you're a couple and then you
have mutual friends that you met together, of course you
know you're gonna still stay in contact with that. But
I think if you know, if if people are really

(50:35):
close friends with your exit, I think it just makes
things awkward. Unless you guys are totally cool with everything
and there's no awkwardness and and the person doesn't care
if you're friends with them, that's could be a different story.
But if things are sticky, then I don't think it's
it's a smart idea, it just seems to cause a
lot of drama. Yeah, yeah, I think that also, the

(50:55):
social media thing, it really can be like a drug,
Like it's like a hit. Looking looking up the person
and seeing what they're doing is like a hit of
of some kind of like yeah, like just like a high.
It gives you like a brief high and then this
like immediate like calm down, emptiness feeling. Um. So I

(51:18):
think that it that is so hard and the only
way to do the only way to avoid that. Sometimes
it's just like fully delete the app because there are
so many ways now to get to someone's profile like
I don't know um or see like you know, other
people posting pictures of them. So yeah, sometimes I guess

(51:39):
the leading is the only answer. Yeah. It just seems
like for the most part, you can get through one week.
That's a huge like right at the beginning. If you
can get through one week and then you build from
there in two weeks, eventually you lose that urge. It's
just that beginning part that's so hard. It's just like
it's breaking an addiction, right, It's just like suddenly if

(52:00):
you are addicted to drugs, and then you go cold
turkey or alcoholic cold turkey. I mean that begetting period
is going to be the most difficult, so you kind
of just have to you know, suffer through it. But um, yeah,
there's no easy. It just takes a lot of willpower.
And I think I always tell people, you know, if
you have that urge, stop yourself in that moment and

(52:22):
just like getting the pattern of stop yourself and say, Okay,
why am I doing this? Is this really a good idea?
And I'm going to feel worse probably? Okay, Like don't
just act like think first, you know, right, it helps
thirty years to realize I didn't have to do everything
I thought of. I was like, I thought about doing

(52:43):
this in Oops, I'm here. We have to take a
quick break and we'll be right back with more true romance. Oh,
welcome back to true romance. When do you recommend, like, yeah,
it's time when you're literally dreading hanging out with the

(53:06):
person or dreading things about the person, right when you
start bickering all the time, I mean that's not pleasant. Um,
when you feel like you're distancing yourself, maybe you're making
excuses not to see them, you're not putting any effort anymore.
You're suddenly busy with friends or just want to stay home. Um,
you're feeling really irritable. I know. A huge one for

(53:27):
me is an extreme amount of anxiety when I'm not
a good situation and you just you wake up with
the anxiety, You go to bed, you can't sleep. It's
the worst feeling. And you know what, it's so important
to pay attention to your body. Like if you're feeling
anxious and low energy and all that, that is your
body telling you this is not a good situation for you.
You need to make some changes, you know. So we

(53:49):
really got to pay attention to that because you know,
and because I know, like even after you know, you
go through the breakup and all that, you can still
be experienced anxiety. But then it's like eases up and
then suddenly you're like I feel like myself again, you know,
and it's just like, oh, thank god, you can breathe again.
And yeah, so I would say, really pay attention to

(54:10):
how you're feeling physically. It's just like the same thing
like when you're all in love and happy and you're
just like, oh my god, I have so much energy,
I'm so happy. I don't even want to sleep. I
just want to talk to this person all the time.
It's amazing the shift it takes, right, So yeah, pay
attention to how you're feeling. I was just it's so
funny that you mentioned that, because I had a flashback
this week too. I was a senior in college and

(54:32):
I was dating this guy and it was just very
volatile and um he was he had been upset with me.
But then I was going on Christmas break to see
my family, so I went to Santa Fe with my family.
It was this beautiful vacation. But the whole time I
was freaking out about this guy being mad at me,
and so I was trying to take calls whenever I
could to check in with him. I was waiting for

(54:53):
him to respond to my text. I was worried that
he was emotionally cheating on me, so I was trying
to maintain contact as often as possible. And I remember
getting on the plane to go back to New York
to see him, and I couldn't wait for the plane
to land so I could turn on my phone and
text him. And it was like this body feeling of
like the planest to lands, I have to turn on
my phone because I have to text him and make

(55:14):
sure that like we're still together and everything's okay. And
and I think sometimes you can mistake those feelings for
attachment or love. But it's like what you were saying,
it was not a good feeling. It was all anxiety.
And this was someone who was supposed to make my
life easier by being attached to And yeah, it was
like hard palpitations, like having to calm down, trying to

(55:35):
make sure I looked amazing, like going to see him
right after I got you know, after I land did,
when in reality, what you really want to do is
just like go home and shower and go to bed. Yeah, no, exactly,
Well for that, you know, we always talk about red
flags and other people, but we also have to really
pay attention to those red flags within ourselves. And so
those would be red flags within yourself, you know. And

(55:57):
it's almost like this person is consuming you, right, and
your life revolves around this person and that's not healthy.
But it's so we I think we've all gone through that.
I think we've all it's so easy to get into
that pattern, you know, and then people all also they
get so scared of the thought of losing someone because
they're like, oh my god, I could never go through
that pain again. And that can cause you to overthink

(56:19):
everything too. Yeah. Yeah, no, I I definitely have been
in those situations where everyone's like, you know, it should
still be like mostly good when you're when you're in
a relationship, it should actually be mostly good and easy
and not uh constant panic attack. Um. And in those situations,

(56:44):
I've always had like the self justifications or like the
excuses of like, well, I know, but it's just because
like he's going through something right now, and like it's
just gonna it's gonna get better, but right now it's
just like this. And I didn't know that it was
possible to be in a relationship that's not like that,
but it is. And I think that's really helpful advice,
the like listening to your body and if you're if

(57:06):
whenever someone asks you about your relationship your first response
is to be like, well, then that's a bad sign,
I think, yeah, Or if you're constantly complaining about your
relationship or literally gossiping about your own relationship all the time, mean,
this is not good. This is not good, Yes, totally,

(57:26):
And I think that's so common to get in that
cycle of like it's normal to just complain about this
person or person all the time. Um yeah, And then
it's also exactly and then it's also a matter of
respect to write like I wouldn't want some guy going
with his buddies and divulging all our information or talking
about me over beers, Like it's just it's not good either,

(57:47):
you know. So I think there's a healthy amount of
like guys like my boyfriend sick and he won't stop
talking about how he's sick, because like guys can't get
a cold without like freaking out about it and being
like just sucking assholes. Like, yeah, there's a there's a
happy medium. But I I agree in terms of this

(58:09):
should feel good most of the time. And and and
for me, it's because I get stressed about other things.
Like I remember the Australia wildfires. I was just I'm
a huge animal person and I just get really overwhelmed
when I think that animals are suffering. So I was
like crying, and I remember my boyfriend at the time

(58:30):
just holding me and I and I at the time
like if it had been something where I was like
and also this fucking relationship like I just I can't
handle being stressed about the news, being stressed about work,
making sure that, you know, being stressed about my landlord,
and then yeah, also having you know, the stable part

(58:53):
of my life be complicated. It just I know I
don't have the room. Yeah, I know, it's a law,
it's a out of stuff, and um, I mean, especially
even at a time like this that we're going through now,
it's just it's it gives you even more time to
think and worry and stress about things, which I mean
isn't good. But at the same time, part of it

(59:15):
is good because it can kind of make you sort
through it out your life and remove things that aren't
working and kind of take inventory and stuff like that. Well,
that's a question that or something that Devin and I
have spoken about a lot too, is the pandemic breakup
and what is your opinion on that, because we've obviously
seen a lot of celebrities breakup and the pandemic, which
I always think it's funny because I Devin and I

(59:36):
talked about how it indicates that you can have everything
is perfect. You can both be beautiful, attractive, successful, rich,
You could be able to afford to fly to BALI
on the last minute's notice and spend the week together
and things can still As as the coffee mugs say,
someone somewhere is still tired of their ship. Yeah, well,

(59:56):
the first of all, the thing with celebrities though, it's
it's everything is for it, so even on a regular day,
I mean, what's true and what's not right? So um
as for the pandemic, I actually think that if your
relationship is actually really solid and healthy, not saying everything
is perfect. No relationship is perfect, but I believe that

(01:00:16):
if it's actually solid, it can survive COVID. I just
and I think that the ones that aren't it's because
there's no distractions anymore. You have to spend more time
with this person. You can't just run away. Maybe you're
stuck in the house with them, and you know, it's
just so easy on a regular day to day basis,
where you could just go out on the weekends or

(01:00:37):
you know, you go to work all day. There's just
so much more to occupy your time and your mind.
But when you have nothing to distract you anymore, um,
and you're face to face head on with your relationship
problems and issues, you have to deal with them. So
I actually think that's a good thing because why would
you want to go on wasting your time with something
that's not working and it's actually not making you happy anyway.

(01:00:59):
So you know, people have to get better at letting
go of things. So I think it can be a
positive that you know people are breaking up just because
if if if they're breaking up it's for a reason.
That's another question that we had, which is on the
flip side, how do you advise people to respond when
being broken up with? So, when it's not your choice,

(01:01:19):
when you feel like, despite some inconveniences that you know
relationship isn't perfect, you really want to keep going with it,
what do you do when the other side doesn't feel
the same way. The main thing is, again, you don't
want to be with someone who doesn't want to be
with you, right, Um, you can always you can always

(01:01:39):
think that you're going to plan or if someone listening
to this right now, they'd say, oh, well, if I
was going through a breakup, I would do this. You
don't know until you're in that moment how you're going
to feel. You don't know how it's going to go down.
You don't know what this person is going to say
to you. You don't know how your emotions are going
to get triggered. So that's it's it's just kind of
up in the air. You have to play it by
air a little bit. But the main thing I would

(01:02:00):
recommend is please don't beg plead or try to convince
this person. Please don't do that, right, it's not gonna work.
It's going to push the person even further away. You
have to maintain your dignity, right, Yeah, this is not easy,
but you have to accept that what this person is saying, like,
you can't force someone to be with you, you know.

(01:02:21):
And I think that it's just so important to take
that time to ask all the questions you need answers to.
You don't want to then be later weeks or months later,
Oh I still need closure and like all that stuff,
like what do you need answered? You know, It's it's
pretty straightforward. Why do you want to break up? There
telling you? And you know, lots of people just they
keep talking about closure because they're looking for a reason
to call this person again or see them again, and

(01:02:43):
all that's like the closure is that the relationship is
not working. And so yeah, but basically, do not be
the person who's begging or reaching out constantly after or
you know, texting or sending flowers and all that, it's
going to work against you. It just is people want
someone who can think. It's more attractive if you can
pull yourself together as well, not that you're trying to

(01:03:05):
look attractive to your ex, but you know it's maintain
that dignity. And yes, I feel good about yourself because
then you're gonna look back and you're not going to
cringe at your behavior because I think is my number
one hobby. But I completely agree, and I feel like
it's changed my responses to being I was dumped once

(01:03:25):
in college by this guy that I was like, we
are getting married. There's no choice. We're suffering through this together.
And I did the begging and the crying and they're like, what, no,
we're happy all of it. And when you know, and
then when the breakup kind of cements and you guys

(01:03:46):
aren't in contact, you're left with feeling like shit because
you treated yourself like shit. You know you you like you, um,
you degraded yourself by by treating this person like they
were the ending, like that they were the yeah, like

(01:04:10):
what happened they are your Yeah, because people put their
eggs on a pedestal and there's suddenly the breakup happens
and they're telling themselves, oh my god, everything was perfect.
I'm never going to meet anyone else again. They were
the perfect match for me. It just goes on and
on and on. So that's why I always tell people
you have to take a step back and be honest

(01:04:31):
with yourself and see things for what they really are,
because if someone's breaking up with you, you're probably not
happy either. You're just reacting to being dumped. And that's
another thing too, is when you're the one who's done,
you think you want that person so much more suddenly,
because it's human nature to what what we can't have,
so your mind complain tricks on you, you know. But

(01:04:52):
if people look back and start really analyzing the relationship themselves,
they'll realize, oh, yeah, okay, this this, this, this, this
s happened. Yeah I didn't like when he did this
or she did that, or you know, on and on
and then you start to see things more clearly. But
it's just there's something about the rejection that people suddenly
then they have this urgency, Oh my god, I gotta

(01:05:14):
get this person back. I also have simply not been
okay with someone being okay after a breakup. I know
that sounds very um sociopathic, but I've just thinking like
this is going to destroy them, Oh my god, and
then breaking up with some of them being like, okay,
well that was fun. I'm gonna be on my merryway.

(01:05:35):
I'm like no, and then you feeling the grief of that,
You're like, wait, what the funk is going on? I
need to get them back, and and I can't believe
I did that, and this relationship meant so much to
me and nothing to them. And I think it is
similar to what you're saying. You want what they You know,

(01:05:55):
you want what you can't have, and all of a sudden,
the relationship looks amazing to you when all was then
you're single and starting the process of dating again. But
at the same time, I think people need to remind
themselves that just because the other person seems fine, it
doesn't mean they are. You know, it doesn't mean they're
not hurting. It's just like you could be the one
who broke up with the person and you're still hurting,

(01:06:17):
but you just know you how to do it. For
whatever reason. So, you know, and it goes back to
social media again or even like celebrities, like we think
everything is so perfect, or just people in general. People
are acting like their life is so perfect and happy
online and so you know, it's just there's you have
to look at things realistically and and you know, just

(01:06:39):
because this person maybe posting a picture that they're out
having feers with their friends or something that doesn't mean anything,
and maybe they're just doing that, like so many people
are using that for a strategy to make the other
person upset or jealous and just for them to think
that all I'm doing fine, but then they're going home
and crying. So it's best just not to make assumptions.
And that's why we have to go back to, you know,

(01:07:00):
not looking at social media and not staying in touch
and not none of that, because you can take yourself
off and create all these stories that aren't even happening,
and then you're putting yourself in a tailspin. Yeah, but
these are my hobbies. Obviously we have to ask, and
we please feel free to refuse to answer, or we
can take this out. But what is your current relationship

(01:07:21):
status and how has your career impacted your love life
if at all. Okay, Um, well, my current status is
I'm single and there's actually no ounce of me. I
can honestly say this. The higher percent that is thinking
I even want to be in a relationship right now,
or like oh I'm missing out or any of that.
You know, I'm yeah, And it's so freeing to get

(01:07:42):
to that point because you know, like I said in
the past, you get so consumed. Oh my god, I
need this, I need that, I need to meet this person,
and I don't like no, like right now, my main
thing is my business and reaching my goals and my
personal accomplishments. Because even you know, you could meet someone
and then things are great, and just like this happened
to me, say, like not even that long ago, I

(01:08:03):
was like, I don't want a relationship whatever. I ended
up meeting this guy randomly because I'm not on dating
eppisode would do what I always believe in just meeting
someone unexpectedly. Anyway, he was very attractive, we really hit
it off. So I'm like, Okay, I'm not gonna that's
the thing. I'm not going to pass up something that could,
you know, if I really like the person. But then
it bit me in the butt because you know, things
start happening. I started getting so distracted thing you know, um,

(01:08:25):
and I just I felt like, oh my god, I
put everything on the back burner for myself again. And
so it just reiterated like, no, this is not I
don't want to do this anymore. I've invested so many
years into trying to you know, into others, and I'm
this is time for me to do for myself. And
the thing is, I don't want to get married, so
I'm not in that stage where I'm just like, oh

(01:08:46):
my god, I gotta get married, So that takes so
much pressure off right there. I'm more of, you know,
just like again again going with the flow of life.
Like you know, if someone comes along that's amazing and
like literally amazing, not just looks good or whatever like
then sure, but if not, I don't have time for
I don't want it anymore. I just don't care, you know, like,

(01:09:07):
if you're not going to really you know, be the
kind of person that I've I've learned that I do
that I would want that it's not worth it, Like
I don't need a guy just to have a guy.
I have a very similar outlook to you right now.
And the way I feel is that I have to
be in the position to say I can't not date

(01:09:28):
this person. I have to find someone who I feel
that way about, where it's like I have to I
think this is too good to not be in my life.
And I felt that way before in the sense of like, yeah,
I have to date this person. This is too much fun.
He makes me laugh too much. The chemistry is so there,

(01:09:49):
and that I feel like it's going with the flow
as well. Exactly. No, And that's the thing where you know,
it shows like when you get everything you just said,
it shows like you've learned from the past, and shows
like you're setting standards right and staying true to yourself
and setting the standards is just so important. You know,
you don't want to, you know, there's a there's a
thing I like, when you settle for crumbs, you're always

(01:10:11):
going to be starving and don't settle. Yeah, embroidered pillow. Yeah,
we are so grateful that you gave us a freebee
on this episode. I know, I feel like I just
got like an hour long h therapy session and so

(01:10:34):
many good pieces of advice that I can share with people.
In the future's great. Yeah, we are going to pass
on your advice like it's our own. But we are
definitely gonna uh throw people your way. What is the
best way for people to reach you? Besides, of course,

(01:10:55):
so I just shouted into my mic. Besides of course,
going and listening to break Up Boost on Apple Podcasts
or wherever you find your podcasts. I'm on Instagram at
breakup Boost and then breakup boost dot com is my
website where they can also order email or phone coaching
or call the hotline I have. People don't even have
to book an appointment. They can just call the hotline

(01:11:16):
and talk to me for as little er as long
as they like. And yeah, it's pretty straightforward. Well, thank
you again for coming on the pod. We are this
advice is um gonna go in my mental piggy bank. Awesome,
Thank you so much. It was it was a joint
to beyond your podcast. Oh good, We're glad you had

(01:11:39):
fun and that was our amazing guest, Trina. I want
to someday be as put together as Trina was for
our interview. By the way, so we can always see
our we can always of course see the person we're
interviewing on Zoom. Devin and I usually look like we

(01:12:00):
were we just woke up. Someone put a gun to
our heads and said, get on zoom right now. I know.
I The thing is like I always am like, Okay,
I'm gonna look good for the podcast today, like this
is my one job I have right now, Like I
should like look nice and I'm interviewing people I never met.
I should look nice, And then always like it's like
a series of events that that stand in the way

(01:12:22):
between me and my shower, and I just can't cross
the hurdles. So I just roll onto the zoom and
I'm like, oh, hey, is this true romance? It's Deven, Hey,
this is Devin. Is this song happened to be true romance?
Brought to you by being uny Players Network? Okay, I

(01:12:43):
look like I'm wearing one of those wigs that you
find in Right Aid right around or that you find
in Dwayne Reid or CVS or Right Aid right around
the time of Halloween, and so many people have already
touched it that it's like already in the back. I know.
It's actually like sickening to think about the fact that
before COVID, I like went into a CBS and bought

(01:13:05):
a mask, like a Halloween mask, and just like wore
it right out of the store. Who knows how many
people touched that handshakes seemed gross. I can't believe I
shook strangers hands. Disgusting. I also remember one time that
I went into UH supermarket around Halloween, me and a friend,
and we found gorilla costumes. We put those on immediately.

(01:13:25):
We ran around the store. We humped stuffed animals. Yes,
I was sixteen. We thought that was funny, and I
want to be honest with it was it was. I
wasn't even there, but it was. And we proceeded to
be kicked out immediately, but not before purchasing those guerrilla
costumes and then saying, yes, we will leave right now.
It's amazing to think what we were okay with when

(01:13:48):
we lived in Reno, Nevada. And I'm kidding, but that
would be cool if we were from there. So we
looked like trash. Trina looked stunningly gorgeous and she put
up with us anyway. Yeah, she's got some great pep talks.
Thank you so much for tuning into true romance this week.
We will catch you next time. And, as Britney Spears
said once by wearing a T shirt and walking with
her bodyguard, dump him. Yes, thank you for listening. By

(01:14:12):
Fine Little, I want your true, true sorrowntic, lovely baby,

(01:14:37):
don't leave me again. I want your