May 23, 2025 • 26 mins
New York City’s finest, Rocco DiSpirito, takes a seat at Luke’s Diner this week!
He’s a James Beard award winning chef but he took acting classes…find out why.
Plus, Rocco has a stacked road trip menu picked out for Lorelai and Rory that has Scott’s mouth watering.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am all in again. How let's just do.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Luke Steiner with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast, Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am on and Podcast one eleven productions.
iHeartRadio Media, iHeart Podcast one on one interview with the
one and Only rock O Dispirited. He has starred on
numerous television shows. Most recently, he received two stars from
The New York Times as chef of the critically acclaimed
(00:45):
Standard Grill in New York City. He is a James
Beard Award winning chef, an author of fourteen count on
fourteen books, including three number ones New York Times bestsellers.
Welcome Rocco.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hey, thank you so much, love love being here. Thanks
for the great introduction. I think we're up to fifteen
books as of March. Nice and thank you so much.
Nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Take us back to the start, rock O, when you went.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Back to the start, back to the start.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Culinary school. Given how many chefs are self bought now
these days, right, would you still recommend culinary.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, it's very different. So would you say that self
taught includes learning via Google and YouTube? Yeah? Okay, so yeah,
so a lot of chefs are teaching themselves how to
cook now just by watching chef's cook on YouTube and Google.
It's a great way to learn, you know, visual. I'm
a visual learner and worked well for me as a kid.
But for me as a kid, visual learning meant you
(01:44):
had to go work in a restaurant, pay your dues,
and you know, burn and cut yourself every day and
work that twelve hour shift so that some guy would
feel bad for you and teach you a few things.
And you know what, it's a great way of learning.
It certainly worked for me, and cooking, you know, change
my life for the better. I don't regret a minute
of it. But I love that you can go on
(02:06):
YouTube now and learn how to do anything, absolutely anything.
You can't learn how to act though. I don't think
you can learn how to act by watching a YouTube
video right.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
No, no, no, And too many people try yes work
out for them.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
You can get a lot of people don't understand it's
a real skill. I'll tell you a funny story. I
worked with Nancy Banks, who is you know, somewhat well
known acting coach, because I was so nervous on live TV.
I had to learn how to act, but play the
part of myself, and I used a real acting coach
(02:43):
who worked with major stars, and at the time she
was working with a couple of actresses from Sex and
the City, you know, like a big time acting coach,
and you know, it is just getting them to pay
attention to you is difficult. Much. Let's take you on.
And you know, she put me through a number of
exercises and scenarios and we would create you know, mock
Today show sets and have people play Al Roker and
(03:05):
Katie Kurk and go through all this just so just
so I could feel comfortable being me in a room
and or on live TV, which is obviously very different
than being in a room.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, you know, that interview situation, that scenario is very
nerve wracking. It really really that's you know, that's the
toughest part of the job. The acting comparatively is like, Okay,
you know, I'm trained for this, let's go. You get
some nerves every once in a while because yeah, you know,
you want to deliver the big emotions or whatever. But yeah,
you go on these big talk shows. It's like, yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Have to be you, yes, exactly, to be you and
you and you need to be as funny as the
character they wrote for you, or it's interesting or is
good looking, or its charming, you know, and that's that's
it's all order, because they're good writers out there, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Luckily, luckily or maybe unlucky for us, we're we're always
playing ourselves and you know, the charming host of the
and the guy in the room is making and everyone
feels good. Which is also a very difficult role to
play because I don't know if you know this, but
most chefs like to be in the back of the house, quiet,
with their heads down. We like to focus on the work, you.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Know, right, Sure, let's talk about growing up. What was
your favorite dish?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Sure? Yeah, So I grew up in Jamaica Queens, which
is one of the five boroughs of New York City,
in a you know, like an Italian American household that
was at like level nine point eight every day, you know,
with the Italian the bad Italian dialect, screaming at top
tops of lungs, going to the live chicken market, you know,
(04:37):
crazy crazy Italian farmhouse lifestyle in the middle of New
York City. This is in the seventies, and you know,
so this this incongruency was very severe because outside of
my house was New York City, right, which was as
modern as anything got. And then inside my house we're
living like in the eighteenth century. We had rabbits and
chickens in the backyard. You know, this is wild stuff,
(05:00):
but it was, you know, it was filled with a
lot of love. It was filled with a lot of
great food. And so I was, you know, introduced and
fell in love with great food at a very early age.
I didn't realize what was happening until I started to
need to work. You know, when I say need to work,
I wanted to buy the new pair of pro Kids
with the two stripes, and those are nine to ninety
nine at the time, so you know, my mom would
(05:20):
put me through it to get a pair of those,
and she's like, you still have soles on your feet,
but you don't need new shoes. There's still soles on
the bottom of your existing shoes. That was that was
the measurement if you still had sold you know. So basically,
I was told at an early age, if I want
to upgrade my lifestyle, I'd have to go out and work.
So I ended up working in restaurants. Best thing that
(05:42):
ever happened to me, and at eleven, I started working
in the pizzeria for fifty cents an hour, and all
the Italian ice I could eat was the best job
I think to this day that I've ever had. Was
amazing because when you get to eat all the Italian
ice you want, or when you're in charge of serving
Italian ice, you have access to the blue Italian ice.
(06:03):
The blue Italian ice is the bubble gum flavored ice.
It is the best Italian ice there is, and there's
never enough of it. I don't know what your experience
is with Italian ice, but the blue it's hard to get.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I like cherry cherry, okay, lemon lime or cherry cool.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, so there was always lemon, the yellow, right, there
was the blue, and there was the red, the cherry.
So there's a lemon, bubble gum and.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Cherry right right right.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And Sal was the guy who hired me, and you know,
I learned a lot from him. He's a great guy.
Great guy.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah. Yeah. You think being a great chef is mostly
born talent or did you pick up these skills over time?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Great question, Yeah, a little bit of both. I think,
like most things, it's a little bit of both. There
are some natural, naturally occurring gifts that you need, which
is like, you gotta like people, and you gotta like
to cook for people. One of my cats wants to say, Hi,
you gotta like to cook for You gotta like to
serve people. You can't be bitter about the service to
other people, right, You got to find that you know
(06:59):
perfectly in line with your core value system. And if
you love you know, cutting your finger and burning your
hand and lighting your hair on fire and cooking something
and walking it out to your table to serve someone,
then you know the job is perfect for you. And
I can tell you from birthual experience it's a very
fulfilling role and a great way to feel a lot
(07:21):
of love for the public and a great way to exercise,
you know, the mind, body, soul, hand skills, brain skills.
There's a lot. There's a lot going on and cooking
it's very very interesting and multi sensory.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, it really is a people business, isn't it. I
mean you really have to love, you know, making people
happier and giving them that great dish and going out
and asking did you love it?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah? You got you gotta love comping stuff too, right,
I'm sure, you've never asked for it, but you gotta
love comping stuff. Oh my gosh, you don't like it, Okay,
I'll take it off your check. You got to be
able to say that very easily and very convincingly.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Tell me, what's your favorite story about comping. Who's the
most famous person if you want to bust them that
you had to comp.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Famous people don't ask for comps. No, they're usually very
gracious and yeah, they usually tip very well, and they're
very gracious, and they ask you to cook whatever you want.
Many of them. There are some that are, you know,
allergic to gluten and dairy, and they don't realize that
pasta is all gluten. There's some funny stuff happening out there,
but you can't make me name names. You can't make
(08:45):
me name names. One of my favorite celebrity cooking experiences
was with Robert de Niro, who came into Union Pacific
and asked for Dega Station's like, make me a Dega
Station menu. That's when you leave it up to the chef,
you know, you just chef goes crazy and he fell
asleep during the meal. It was amazing. It was amazing
cooking for him and so heartbreaking. But then I found
(09:08):
out from his lady friend Grace, that he had, you know,
narcolepsy or something. She's like, don't worry, do he does
this everywhere? It's not you, it's not you. I was like, Oh,
the chairs too comfortable? Is it too serene and quiet
in here? Yeah? But he was super generous. He came
back a lot is, you know, very generous with tipping,
really appreciated great food, would let you cook whatever you
(09:30):
wanted as low maintenance as they came wonderful.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So what's the one ingredient that we don't all should
be using more of in are cooking to bring out flavor?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Butter? Every butter. You can't be afraid of butter. You
should go out and buy as much grass fed butter
as you could afford and put it in everything, on
everything if you want food to taste good. And then
the next one is salt, as much salt as your
heart and palate can handle. And then MSG is another
way to really boost flavors is essentially powdered seaweed, So
(10:02):
don't be afraid of it. It's you know, it was
obviously maligned in the seventies and a lot of people
claim that that was, you know, a part of a
you know, anti Asian thing. I'm not sure what the
truth is, but turns out that real, real, naturally occurring MSG,
which is essentially dried seaweed leaves, is totally fine and
doesn't is not harmful at all. Okay, but you know,
(10:24):
here's a little secret. Go get dashi powder which has
pombu and bonito flakes in it.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Let me let me ask you this question. Yeah, so
you published a cookbook in the last year. Was that
always a big dream of yours to get a cookbook
out there with your name on it.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah. So, my dad was a carpenter who wanted to
be a lawyer. He was an intellectual, you know, who
grew up during the war and depression in Italy, who
really had bigger ambitions. So he came to America hoping
he would become a lawyer and write books. That was
always his dream. He was the kind of guy who
borrowed books and self studied his way through high school.
(11:00):
You imagine a person doing that today, borrowing books, not
even buying books, not even library, going to friends and
borrowing books. And so his dream was to write books
and be a published author, and so, you know, as
a proxy for my dad, it was a dream of mine.
It wasn't the dream for me, because the dream for
me was always running a restaurant, opening a restaurant, being
(11:22):
the chef. But I remember asking my dad about it
when the opportunity came up, and he was like, you
have to do it. The most important thing you can
do is to write about what you do and tell
people what you do and share what it is that
you do. Because it's one thing to do, it's another
thing to be able to tell people why you do it,
how you do it. And he really, you know, he
really infected me with the writer's bug, and so it
(11:46):
was a great moment for me. And you know, fifteen
books letter later, I can tell you it's you know,
probably my favorite part of our business as chefs. Now
we get to do a lot of different things with
a lot of spokes in our wheel. We get to
do you know, TV and live appearances and cooking restaurants
and obviously social media craziness and write books. And writing
is great because it's the only time we can memorialize
(12:09):
what we do. You're lucky you get to you get
to be in a film, or TV show, and it's
there forever. You can't erase it, right, it's whether you
like it or not, it's there forever. But for us,
we serve a meal and it's eaten and it's gone forever.
So writing a book is a way to mitigate that
for us. Right, So it is, it is. It is
a great time.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, favorite memories of cooking, favorite, favorite memories, favorite memories.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So it's pretty gruesome one. But it's cooking in the
backyard with my mom, my uncle, my grandmother. And it
was a big lesson for me because it was the
day I realized that our our pets were also our food.
But I remember tasting these foods that my grandmother was
grilling that were formerly our pets and realizing, how, you know,
(12:58):
how delicious this fresh food was. That I was young
enough to be horrified by what was happening and old
enough to appreciate how great, you know, having fresh food is.
So that's a pretty big memory. And I remember my
grandmother let me turn the meats on the grill, and
of course I assumed they were chicken, and they weren't.
(13:19):
There were other things, other things that you might have named,
you know, And so that was pretty good. My grandmother
is in most of my great memories when it comes
to food. She was it could have been, you know,
a stand up comedian kind of character. Did you have
a grandmother like that?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
No?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Funny, though mine was so funny. We don't have another
funny person like that in our family anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No, God, who was a funny person in our well?
I guess it was my dad. My dad. My mom
and dad together were actually pretty funny. They were they
were great storytellers. Yeah, we had a couple of jokesters
in my family.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And Mira and Ben Stiller, by any no, not that
that funny. That Can you imagine growing up with those
those people as your parents?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I worked with you, did I worked with one of
the No, no, the daughter the daughter? Oh okay, yeah,
I knew the daughter and I worked with her, and
I think we're in an acting class together. And oh wow,
Yeah she was very funny. Not surprising, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah. So either they laughed a lot at home or
they were in tears all the time. I'm not sure,
right exactly? So, lots of lots of favorite moments in cooking.
Another one is when my mom would make bread and
she would give me the little scraps that didn't make
it into the loaf. And for some reason, this crazy
woman let me fry those scraps that was barely tall
(14:45):
enough to reach the stove. That's not the first thing
you teach a kid how to fry in hot oil,
but she let me do that. And you know, I
never burned myself, thankfully. Can you imagine how having your
kid walk up to a stove with a pot of
frying oil and throw you know, she would make me.
She would say, shape it however you want, and I
would make little dinosaurs and you know, cows and horses,
(15:05):
and then we would throw it in the you know,
ready to flame out hot oil. It would immediately fry
and brown. And then she would while it was hot,
she would douse it in honey or powdered sugar. Is
so good. It's fried dough, you know, right right right,
bunnel cake.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And so in this episode a road Trip to Harvard,
Laura l I takes your daughter Rory on that road
trip to go visit Harvard University. She's what sophomore in
high school, but she wants to go to Harvard. Do
you think you think it's worth trying to pack meals
for a road trip or just hit the drive through
on the way.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Well, you're talking to a guy who was raised with
semi literate Italian gangsters, you know. For so we always
had meals packed. We had we didn't have meals. We
had elements of a meal. We had a piece of parmesan,
We had hunka parmesan red jihano, a piece of caci carlo,
which is the big ball of mozzarella that they hang
from the ceiling in the garage. You know, you don't
(16:00):
know what it is until they open it one day
and you realize it's cheese. They take a silk ro
soad from the ceiling of the garage, covered in mold,
and they throw all that into a bag, you know,
not plastic, and then my mom would grab a knife
and some bread, and that was normal life for me.
So and I have to say that those were, you know,
(16:21):
to this day, the best road dishes I ever had.
I remember being very embarrassed by it, but then when
we were hungry, it paid off. You know, when we
were hungry on the side of the road and we
had food and everyone else was looking for a McDonald's,
it paid off, so definitely. Always always a good idea
to pack food. I'm gonna say yes, always a good
idea to pack food, never a bad idea to have food. Handy.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Let's let's create or you create the perfect drive through menu.
What would be on that menu?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Drive through?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Drive your car, drive through?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes, okay, so hot fried chicken, ready to eat, hot
fried chicken, pizza for sure, cavear bump, cold champagne, uh cold,
good champagne, Moet level minimum. Wow, yeah, you want to
come on this trip? Yeah? Maybe a little? We should, Yeah,
(17:15):
we should. You know, in Italy, I think they're called
what are they called in Italy? The roadside gas stations
with the like three star Michelin food, the auto Gazetto
or whatever. I'll think of it in a second, but
they already existently. Apasta bar would be nice with some fresh.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Uha amatri chana or carbonara, or the one with just
butter and parm fredo.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Have you ever planned a road trip around specific food
stops restaurants.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh? Yeah, absolutely yeah. So when I went to the
Culinary stupid Ma. You had to drive through a place
in Connecticut that's famous for some great pizzerias and so
a pizza is one of them. And so whenever I
go that way for whatever reason, there's usually a stop there.
But I basically, I would say, plan most things around
(18:18):
the food stops that are going to happen, you know,
so I'll pick I'll pick routes based on, you know,
what restaurants I know are on the way, or what
butcher shops or seafood markets are on the way. And
you know, certainly in Italy they're always thinking about food
and their next meal and what they have to buy
(18:39):
to supply their you know, resupply the provisions in the house.
So they're always working around, in and around food stops.
And it's a great way to live, great way to live.
And those are skinny people, by the way. The people
that think like that right there are the ones that
have to stop at McDonald's because they didn't plan. Those
are the ones who are eating too much.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Any particularly I mean, I mean, I'm sure you're biased
to Italy or New York, but any particular countries that
you've taken food excursions on that you particularly love, I
would recommend absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Thailand was an early one in my chef career, about
twenty years ago. I remember going from a sort of
you know, first year college student to a graduate student
in a few days in terms of spice, because they,
you know, the spice in the food, and Thailand is
(19:35):
so at such a high level that you have to
get used to it really quickly. And I remember my
body physically convulsing and meat sweats and all kinds of
crazy things happening. But the food was so delicious that
me and my two other chef friends just loved it
and just kept going and kept pushing forward, and you know,
(19:56):
basically built that entire trip around which street vendor, which
restaurant we were going to go to next. There's so
much food in Thailand, and all of it is so
good and so fresh. It's still, you know, still basically
a farming society, so everything they eat is is raised,
you know, locally, and fresh you know, that week, that day.
So Thailand's good. If you're gonna build, if you're gonna
(20:17):
build a vacation around food, Thailand. Bangkok Hang Mine a
great one. We didn't make one stuff that was a
little strange where we ate a snake. Uh. They made
us eat the green vial first with soju and then
they sauta the meat and then they fried the bones.
It was crazy. I'll never do that again. Don't ever
(20:38):
do that.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
If someone suggests that, say, no, what kind of snake
was it?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You know, you know, a poisonous one. I remember it
was alive and it was very poisonous. They needed an
expert snake handler.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. And why did you feel compelled
to eat it? There was some kind of pressure on
you to eat this.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I was just going with the flow. My friend I
was in Thailand and it was you know, it's a
it's a favorite. It's a heavy favorite for all taurists.
I'm sure I saw it on TV. I saw Anthony
Bourdain do it on TV, probably you know, or Andrew Zimmern,
and I thought, I gotta do that.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I gotta I gotta have a snake. I gotta eat
a snake.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
At one point, and they kept telling you it makes
you strong, makes you strong. I still don't know what
they're talking about. But didn't make me strong, made me queasy.
All right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Last question, if you were to come into Luke's diner, okay,
we would you order?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Oh that's a hard one. Remind me what did Luke
Stander serve other than sass and beauty and a lot
of sass. So so for me, a couple of classics
in the diner world are a no frills burger that's
basically a burger and a bun and you're done. Patty
(21:50):
melts or a tuna melt. This is a piece of
rye with you know, overly mayonnaise, tuna salad and some
you know American cheese melt it on top. Great, great
combination of flavors. I think a shake is important to
be able to get at a diner. And then when
you're just sick of the world and you're tired of
(22:10):
people's opinions and you don't care what's trending, an omelet,
cheese omelet. You should be able to get a good
cheese omelet and a diner for under ten bucks. That
doesn't exist anymore. I don't know what's going on near you,
but by me and New York diners don't even aren't
even around anymore. So, but a great omelet, a great omelet.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Needs to be a revival.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I think, yeah, for sure, is there a Luke's diner
in real life? Should we open one?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
We could talk, Let's talk.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It's got history it's a known quantity.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I mean, you know, I've just been trying to do
that for twenty five years. But let's let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You never know when you've met the right person.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You never know, you never know. So the standard grill
is still going strong.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, everything's going well, still going strong. I am Oh.
I want to tell you about a thing that I
do that I never talk about because it's a very
word of mouth thing. But I wrote a book called
The Pound a Day Diet in two thousand and nine.
Did very well, and for the book, my publisher said
that it's a great title, but we don't believe you.
(23:16):
You got to prove it that it works, because losing
a pound a day is based on diet science. But
it's you know, it's hard to do and hard to prove.
It's based on the science calorie deficit. If you reduce
people's consumption thirty five hundred calories a day, thirty five
hundred calories egal to one pound of fat. So the
science was, if I can get you down to something below,
you know, thirty five hundred calories, you would lose a
(23:39):
pound a day. And most Americans eat four thousand and
seven thirty calories a day, so it leaves leaves you
about twelve hundred and fifty calories to work with. So
I put twelve people on the diet. It worked ninety
eight percent success, and I've been doing that diet for
those people and more ever since. So I never talk
about this because it's you know, it's very private, personal
(24:00):
and word of mouth y. It's a little expensive, but
I want people to know that I do that, and
then I'm still very active in the health of wellness
space because they haven't because COVID kind of disrupted everything,
as you know, and it disrupted the health and wellness
business side of my business and where it's back and strong,
as strong as ever.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Did you ever consider going to Miami?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I have many times.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, Like like a lot of a lot of chefs
did a lot of restaurants during COVID. After COVID, they
were like, we're out of here.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Huh. Yeah. There are two problems for me. One is
that I'm you know, born and raised, intrepid New Yorker
and I'm under the delusion that I won't be happy
anywhere else. And I know that's not true, but I'm
you know, still, I still believe it and I need
you know, I need someone in Miami to make an offer,
create an opportunity, you know, something, something right, right. I'm
(24:51):
down there every year for soby. This is the big
food festival. Have you been to that? No, you should come,
you should come. Okay, that's every year in February. Oh
nice out Beach Wine and Food Festival. It's the biggest
in the country. Sixty thousand people attend. Yeah. So I
go down there every year. I talk to people and
nothing's ever materialized. But you never know, I don't know.
The night is still young.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Well, thank you so much for company.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
This was this was very very illuminating. And I'll be
in touch, you know, and you have to come back
on you please promise. The great gusts we didn't even
even get into it really very much. But there's a
lot more here, a lot more meat on the bone
here anyway, Rock Oh, thank you so much. Everybody, go
(25:37):
buy the Standard Grill in New York City if you
want one of the best meals from one of the
best chefs in the world. Rock Oh, thanks so much.
And that's going to wrap it up here. Thank you, everybody.
Keep the downloads coming, keep the cards, and letters coming
the best fans on the planet. Where you lead, we
will follow Stay Sicket dot j. Hey everybody, and don't forget.
(26:26):
Follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast
and email us at Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com.
I am all in again. How let's just do.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Luke Steiner with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast, Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am on and Podcast one eleven productions.
iHeartRadio Media, iHeart Podcast one on one interview with the
one and Only rock O Dispirited. He has starred on
numerous television shows. Most recently, he received two stars from
The New York Times as chef of the critically acclaimed
(00:45):
Standard Grill in New York City. He is a James
Beard Award winning chef, an author of fourteen count on
fourteen books, including three number ones New York Times bestsellers.
Welcome Rocco.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hey, thank you so much, love love being here. Thanks
for the great introduction. I think we're up to fifteen
books as of March. Nice and thank you so much.
Nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Take us back to the start, rock O, when you went.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Back to the start, back to the start.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Culinary school. Given how many chefs are self bought now
these days, right, would you still recommend culinary.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, it's very different. So would you say that self
taught includes learning via Google and YouTube? Yeah? Okay, so yeah,
so a lot of chefs are teaching themselves how to
cook now just by watching chef's cook on YouTube and Google.
It's a great way to learn, you know, visual. I'm
a visual learner and worked well for me as a kid.
But for me as a kid, visual learning meant you
(01:44):
had to go work in a restaurant, pay your dues,
and you know, burn and cut yourself every day and
work that twelve hour shift so that some guy would
feel bad for you and teach you a few things.
And you know what, it's a great way of learning.
It certainly worked for me, and cooking, you know, change
my life for the better. I don't regret a minute
of it. But I love that you can go on
(02:06):
YouTube now and learn how to do anything, absolutely anything.
You can't learn how to act though. I don't think
you can learn how to act by watching a YouTube
video right.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
No, no, no, And too many people try yes work
out for them.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
You can get a lot of people don't understand it's
a real skill. I'll tell you a funny story. I
worked with Nancy Banks, who is you know, somewhat well
known acting coach, because I was so nervous on live TV.
I had to learn how to act, but play the
part of myself, and I used a real acting coach
(02:43):
who worked with major stars, and at the time she
was working with a couple of actresses from Sex and
the City, you know, like a big time acting coach,
and you know, it is just getting them to pay
attention to you is difficult. Much. Let's take you on.
And you know, she put me through a number of
exercises and scenarios and we would create you know, mock
Today show sets and have people play Al Roker and
(03:05):
Katie Kurk and go through all this just so just
so I could feel comfortable being me in a room
and or on live TV, which is obviously very different
than being in a room.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, you know, that interview situation, that scenario is very
nerve wracking. It really really that's you know, that's the
toughest part of the job. The acting comparatively is like, Okay,
you know, I'm trained for this, let's go. You get
some nerves every once in a while because yeah, you know,
you want to deliver the big emotions or whatever. But yeah,
you go on these big talk shows. It's like, yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Have to be you, yes, exactly, to be you and
you and you need to be as funny as the
character they wrote for you, or it's interesting or is
good looking, or its charming, you know, and that's that's
it's all order, because they're good writers out there, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Luckily, luckily or maybe unlucky for us, we're we're always
playing ourselves and you know, the charming host of the
and the guy in the room is making and everyone
feels good. Which is also a very difficult role to
play because I don't know if you know this, but
most chefs like to be in the back of the house, quiet,
with their heads down. We like to focus on the work, you.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Know, right, Sure, let's talk about growing up. What was
your favorite dish?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Sure? Yeah, So I grew up in Jamaica Queens, which
is one of the five boroughs of New York City,
in a you know, like an Italian American household that
was at like level nine point eight every day, you know,
with the Italian the bad Italian dialect, screaming at top
tops of lungs, going to the live chicken market, you know,
(04:37):
crazy crazy Italian farmhouse lifestyle in the middle of New
York City. This is in the seventies, and you know,
so this this incongruency was very severe because outside of
my house was New York City, right, which was as
modern as anything got. And then inside my house we're
living like in the eighteenth century. We had rabbits and
chickens in the backyard. You know, this is wild stuff,
(05:00):
but it was, you know, it was filled with a
lot of love. It was filled with a lot of
great food. And so I was, you know, introduced and
fell in love with great food at a very early age.
I didn't realize what was happening until I started to
need to work. You know, when I say need to work,
I wanted to buy the new pair of pro Kids
with the two stripes, and those are nine to ninety
nine at the time, so you know, my mom would
(05:20):
put me through it to get a pair of those,
and she's like, you still have soles on your feet,
but you don't need new shoes. There's still soles on
the bottom of your existing shoes. That was that was
the measurement if you still had sold you know. So basically,
I was told at an early age, if I want
to upgrade my lifestyle, I'd have to go out and work.
So I ended up working in restaurants. Best thing that
(05:42):
ever happened to me, and at eleven, I started working
in the pizzeria for fifty cents an hour, and all
the Italian ice I could eat was the best job
I think to this day that I've ever had. Was
amazing because when you get to eat all the Italian
ice you want, or when you're in charge of serving
Italian ice, you have access to the blue Italian ice.
(06:03):
The blue Italian ice is the bubble gum flavored ice.
It is the best Italian ice there is, and there's
never enough of it. I don't know what your experience
is with Italian ice, but the blue it's hard to get.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I like cherry cherry, okay, lemon lime or cherry cool.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, so there was always lemon, the yellow, right, there
was the blue, and there was the red, the cherry.
So there's a lemon, bubble gum and.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Cherry right right right.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And Sal was the guy who hired me, and you know,
I learned a lot from him. He's a great guy.
Great guy.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah. Yeah. You think being a great chef is mostly
born talent or did you pick up these skills over time?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Great question, Yeah, a little bit of both. I think,
like most things, it's a little bit of both. There
are some natural, naturally occurring gifts that you need, which
is like, you gotta like people, and you gotta like
to cook for people. One of my cats wants to say, Hi,
you gotta like to cook for You gotta like to
serve people. You can't be bitter about the service to
other people, right, You got to find that you know
(06:59):
perfectly in line with your core value system. And if
you love you know, cutting your finger and burning your
hand and lighting your hair on fire and cooking something
and walking it out to your table to serve someone,
then you know the job is perfect for you. And
I can tell you from birthual experience it's a very
fulfilling role and a great way to feel a lot
(07:21):
of love for the public and a great way to exercise,
you know, the mind, body, soul, hand skills, brain skills.
There's a lot. There's a lot going on and cooking
it's very very interesting and multi sensory.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, it really is a people business, isn't it. I
mean you really have to love, you know, making people
happier and giving them that great dish and going out
and asking did you love it?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah? You got you gotta love comping stuff too, right,
I'm sure, you've never asked for it, but you gotta
love comping stuff. Oh my gosh, you don't like it, Okay,
I'll take it off your check. You got to be
able to say that very easily and very convincingly.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Tell me, what's your favorite story about comping. Who's the
most famous person if you want to bust them that
you had to comp.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Famous people don't ask for comps. No, they're usually very
gracious and yeah, they usually tip very well, and they're
very gracious, and they ask you to cook whatever you want.
Many of them. There are some that are, you know,
allergic to gluten and dairy, and they don't realize that
pasta is all gluten. There's some funny stuff happening out there,
but you can't make me name names. You can't make
(08:45):
me name names. One of my favorite celebrity cooking experiences
was with Robert de Niro, who came into Union Pacific
and asked for Dega Station's like, make me a Dega
Station menu. That's when you leave it up to the chef,
you know, you just chef goes crazy and he fell
asleep during the meal. It was amazing. It was amazing
cooking for him and so heartbreaking. But then I found
(09:08):
out from his lady friend Grace, that he had, you know,
narcolepsy or something. She's like, don't worry, do he does
this everywhere? It's not you, it's not you. I was like, Oh,
the chairs too comfortable? Is it too serene and quiet
in here? Yeah? But he was super generous. He came
back a lot is, you know, very generous with tipping,
really appreciated great food, would let you cook whatever you
(09:30):
wanted as low maintenance as they came wonderful.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So what's the one ingredient that we don't all should
be using more of in are cooking to bring out flavor?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Butter? Every butter. You can't be afraid of butter. You
should go out and buy as much grass fed butter
as you could afford and put it in everything, on
everything if you want food to taste good. And then
the next one is salt, as much salt as your
heart and palate can handle. And then MSG is another
way to really boost flavors is essentially powdered seaweed, So
(10:02):
don't be afraid of it. It's you know, it was
obviously maligned in the seventies and a lot of people
claim that that was, you know, a part of a
you know, anti Asian thing. I'm not sure what the
truth is, but turns out that real, real, naturally occurring MSG,
which is essentially dried seaweed leaves, is totally fine and
doesn't is not harmful at all. Okay, but you know,
(10:24):
here's a little secret. Go get dashi powder which has
pombu and bonito flakes in it.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Let me let me ask you this question. Yeah, so
you published a cookbook in the last year. Was that
always a big dream of yours to get a cookbook
out there with your name on it.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah. So, my dad was a carpenter who wanted to
be a lawyer. He was an intellectual, you know, who
grew up during the war and depression in Italy, who
really had bigger ambitions. So he came to America hoping
he would become a lawyer and write books. That was
always his dream. He was the kind of guy who
borrowed books and self studied his way through high school.
(11:00):
You imagine a person doing that today, borrowing books, not
even buying books, not even library, going to friends and
borrowing books. And so his dream was to write books
and be a published author, and so, you know, as
a proxy for my dad, it was a dream of mine.
It wasn't the dream for me, because the dream for
me was always running a restaurant, opening a restaurant, being
(11:22):
the chef. But I remember asking my dad about it
when the opportunity came up, and he was like, you
have to do it. The most important thing you can
do is to write about what you do and tell
people what you do and share what it is that
you do. Because it's one thing to do, it's another
thing to be able to tell people why you do it,
how you do it. And he really, you know, he
really infected me with the writer's bug, and so it
(11:46):
was a great moment for me. And you know, fifteen
books letter later, I can tell you it's you know,
probably my favorite part of our business as chefs. Now
we get to do a lot of different things with
a lot of spokes in our wheel. We get to
do you know, TV and live appearances and cooking restaurants
and obviously social media craziness and write books. And writing
is great because it's the only time we can memorialize
(12:09):
what we do. You're lucky you get to you get
to be in a film, or TV show, and it's
there forever. You can't erase it, right, it's whether you
like it or not, it's there forever. But for us,
we serve a meal and it's eaten and it's gone forever.
So writing a book is a way to mitigate that
for us. Right, So it is, it is. It is
a great time.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, favorite memories of cooking, favorite, favorite memories, favorite memories.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So it's pretty gruesome one. But it's cooking in the
backyard with my mom, my uncle, my grandmother. And it
was a big lesson for me because it was the
day I realized that our our pets were also our food.
But I remember tasting these foods that my grandmother was
grilling that were formerly our pets and realizing, how, you know,
(12:58):
how delicious this fresh food was. That I was young
enough to be horrified by what was happening and old
enough to appreciate how great, you know, having fresh food is.
So that's a pretty big memory. And I remember my
grandmother let me turn the meats on the grill, and
of course I assumed they were chicken, and they weren't.
(13:19):
There were other things, other things that you might have named,
you know, And so that was pretty good. My grandmother
is in most of my great memories when it comes
to food. She was it could have been, you know,
a stand up comedian kind of character. Did you have
a grandmother like that?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
No?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Funny, though mine was so funny. We don't have another
funny person like that in our family anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No, God, who was a funny person in our well?
I guess it was my dad. My dad. My mom
and dad together were actually pretty funny. They were they
were great storytellers. Yeah, we had a couple of jokesters
in my family.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And Mira and Ben Stiller, by any no, not that
that funny. That Can you imagine growing up with those
those people as your parents?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I worked with you, did I worked with one of
the No, no, the daughter the daughter? Oh okay, yeah,
I knew the daughter and I worked with her, and
I think we're in an acting class together. And oh wow,
Yeah she was very funny. Not surprising, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah. So either they laughed a lot at home or
they were in tears all the time. I'm not sure,
right exactly? So, lots of lots of favorite moments in cooking.
Another one is when my mom would make bread and
she would give me the little scraps that didn't make
it into the loaf. And for some reason, this crazy
woman let me fry those scraps that was barely tall
(14:45):
enough to reach the stove. That's not the first thing
you teach a kid how to fry in hot oil,
but she let me do that. And you know, I
never burned myself, thankfully. Can you imagine how having your
kid walk up to a stove with a pot of
frying oil and throw you know, she would make me.
She would say, shape it however you want, and I
would make little dinosaurs and you know, cows and horses,
(15:05):
and then we would throw it in the you know,
ready to flame out hot oil. It would immediately fry
and brown. And then she would while it was hot,
she would douse it in honey or powdered sugar. Is
so good. It's fried dough, you know, right right right,
bunnel cake.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And so in this episode a road Trip to Harvard,
Laura l I takes your daughter Rory on that road
trip to go visit Harvard University. She's what sophomore in
high school, but she wants to go to Harvard. Do
you think you think it's worth trying to pack meals
for a road trip or just hit the drive through
on the way.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Well, you're talking to a guy who was raised with
semi literate Italian gangsters, you know. For so we always
had meals packed. We had we didn't have meals. We
had elements of a meal. We had a piece of parmesan,
We had hunka parmesan red jihano, a piece of caci carlo,
which is the big ball of mozzarella that they hang
from the ceiling in the garage. You know, you don't
(16:00):
know what it is until they open it one day
and you realize it's cheese. They take a silk ro
soad from the ceiling of the garage, covered in mold,
and they throw all that into a bag, you know,
not plastic, and then my mom would grab a knife
and some bread, and that was normal life for me.
So and I have to say that those were, you know,
(16:21):
to this day, the best road dishes I ever had.
I remember being very embarrassed by it, but then when
we were hungry, it paid off. You know, when we
were hungry on the side of the road and we
had food and everyone else was looking for a McDonald's,
it paid off, so definitely. Always always a good idea
to pack food. I'm gonna say yes, always a good
idea to pack food, never a bad idea to have food. Handy.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Let's let's create or you create the perfect drive through menu.
What would be on that menu?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Drive through?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Drive your car, drive through?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes, okay, so hot fried chicken, ready to eat, hot
fried chicken, pizza for sure, cavear bump, cold champagne, uh cold,
good champagne, Moet level minimum. Wow, yeah, you want to
come on this trip? Yeah? Maybe a little? We should, Yeah,
(17:15):
we should. You know, in Italy, I think they're called
what are they called in Italy? The roadside gas stations
with the like three star Michelin food, the auto Gazetto
or whatever. I'll think of it in a second, but
they already existently. Apasta bar would be nice with some fresh.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Uha amatri chana or carbonara, or the one with just
butter and parm fredo.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Have you ever planned a road trip around specific food
stops restaurants.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh? Yeah, absolutely yeah. So when I went to the
Culinary stupid Ma. You had to drive through a place
in Connecticut that's famous for some great pizzerias and so
a pizza is one of them. And so whenever I
go that way for whatever reason, there's usually a stop there.
But I basically, I would say, plan most things around
(18:18):
the food stops that are going to happen, you know,
so I'll pick I'll pick routes based on, you know,
what restaurants I know are on the way, or what
butcher shops or seafood markets are on the way. And
you know, certainly in Italy they're always thinking about food
and their next meal and what they have to buy
(18:39):
to supply their you know, resupply the provisions in the house.
So they're always working around, in and around food stops.
And it's a great way to live, great way to live.
And those are skinny people, by the way. The people
that think like that right there are the ones that
have to stop at McDonald's because they didn't plan. Those
are the ones who are eating too much.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Any particularly I mean, I mean, I'm sure you're biased
to Italy or New York, but any particular countries that
you've taken food excursions on that you particularly love, I
would recommend absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Thailand was an early one in my chef career, about
twenty years ago. I remember going from a sort of
you know, first year college student to a graduate student
in a few days in terms of spice, because they,
you know, the spice in the food, and Thailand is
(19:35):
so at such a high level that you have to
get used to it really quickly. And I remember my
body physically convulsing and meat sweats and all kinds of
crazy things happening. But the food was so delicious that
me and my two other chef friends just loved it
and just kept going and kept pushing forward, and you know,
(19:56):
basically built that entire trip around which street vendor, which
restaurant we were going to go to next. There's so
much food in Thailand, and all of it is so
good and so fresh. It's still, you know, still basically
a farming society, so everything they eat is is raised,
you know, locally, and fresh you know, that week, that day.
So Thailand's good. If you're gonna build, if you're gonna
(20:17):
build a vacation around food, Thailand. Bangkok Hang Mine a
great one. We didn't make one stuff that was a
little strange where we ate a snake. Uh. They made
us eat the green vial first with soju and then
they sauta the meat and then they fried the bones.
It was crazy. I'll never do that again. Don't ever
(20:38):
do that.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
If someone suggests that, say, no, what kind of snake
was it?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You know, you know, a poisonous one. I remember it
was alive and it was very poisonous. They needed an
expert snake handler.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. And why did you feel compelled
to eat it? There was some kind of pressure on
you to eat this.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I was just going with the flow. My friend I
was in Thailand and it was you know, it's a
it's a favorite. It's a heavy favorite for all taurists.
I'm sure I saw it on TV. I saw Anthony
Bourdain do it on TV, probably you know, or Andrew Zimmern,
and I thought, I gotta do that.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I gotta I gotta have a snake. I gotta eat
a snake.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
At one point, and they kept telling you it makes
you strong, makes you strong. I still don't know what
they're talking about. But didn't make me strong, made me queasy.
All right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Last question, if you were to come into Luke's diner, okay,
we would you order?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Oh that's a hard one. Remind me what did Luke
Stander serve other than sass and beauty and a lot
of sass. So so for me, a couple of classics
in the diner world are a no frills burger that's
basically a burger and a bun and you're done. Patty
(21:50):
melts or a tuna melt. This is a piece of
rye with you know, overly mayonnaise, tuna salad and some
you know American cheese melt it on top. Great, great
combination of flavors. I think a shake is important to
be able to get at a diner. And then when
you're just sick of the world and you're tired of
(22:10):
people's opinions and you don't care what's trending, an omelet,
cheese omelet. You should be able to get a good
cheese omelet and a diner for under ten bucks. That
doesn't exist anymore. I don't know what's going on near you,
but by me and New York diners don't even aren't
even around anymore. So, but a great omelet, a great omelet.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Needs to be a revival.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I think, yeah, for sure, is there a Luke's diner
in real life? Should we open one?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
We could talk, Let's talk.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It's got history it's a known quantity.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I mean, you know, I've just been trying to do
that for twenty five years. But let's let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You never know when you've met the right person.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You never know, you never know. So the standard grill
is still going strong.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, everything's going well, still going strong. I am Oh.
I want to tell you about a thing that I
do that I never talk about because it's a very
word of mouth thing. But I wrote a book called
The Pound a Day Diet in two thousand and nine.
Did very well, and for the book, my publisher said
that it's a great title, but we don't believe you.
(23:16):
You got to prove it that it works, because losing
a pound a day is based on diet science. But
it's you know, it's hard to do and hard to prove.
It's based on the science calorie deficit. If you reduce
people's consumption thirty five hundred calories a day, thirty five
hundred calories egal to one pound of fat. So the
science was, if I can get you down to something below,
you know, thirty five hundred calories, you would lose a
(23:39):
pound a day. And most Americans eat four thousand and
seven thirty calories a day, so it leaves leaves you
about twelve hundred and fifty calories to work with. So
I put twelve people on the diet. It worked ninety
eight percent success, and I've been doing that diet for
those people and more ever since. So I never talk
about this because it's you know, it's very private, personal
(24:00):
and word of mouth y. It's a little expensive, but
I want people to know that I do that, and
then I'm still very active in the health of wellness
space because they haven't because COVID kind of disrupted everything,
as you know, and it disrupted the health and wellness
business side of my business and where it's back and strong,
as strong as ever.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Did you ever consider going to Miami?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I have many times.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, Like like a lot of a lot of chefs
did a lot of restaurants during COVID. After COVID, they
were like, we're out of here.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Huh. Yeah. There are two problems for me. One is
that I'm you know, born and raised, intrepid New Yorker
and I'm under the delusion that I won't be happy
anywhere else. And I know that's not true, but I'm
you know, still, I still believe it and I need
you know, I need someone in Miami to make an offer,
create an opportunity, you know, something, something right, right. I'm
(24:51):
down there every year for soby. This is the big
food festival. Have you been to that? No, you should come,
you should come. Okay, that's every year in February. Oh
nice out Beach Wine and Food Festival. It's the biggest
in the country. Sixty thousand people attend. Yeah. So I
go down there every year. I talk to people and
nothing's ever materialized. But you never know, I don't know.
The night is still young.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Well, thank you so much for company.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
This was this was very very illuminating. And I'll be
in touch, you know, and you have to come back
on you please promise. The great gusts we didn't even
even get into it really very much. But there's a
lot more here, a lot more meat on the bone
here anyway, Rock Oh, thank you so much. Everybody, go
(25:37):
buy the Standard Grill in New York City if you
want one of the best meals from one of the
best chefs in the world. Rock Oh, thanks so much.
And that's going to wrap it up here. Thank you, everybody.
Keep the downloads coming, keep the cards, and letters coming
the best fans on the planet. Where you lead, we
will follow Stay Sicket dot j. Hey everybody, and don't forget.
(26:26):
Follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast
and email us at Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.