June 21, 2025 • 58 mins
Disclaimer:
The following podcast contains topics of mental health and loss which may be difficult to listen to. If you or anyone you know is struggling, help is available call 988 or visit 988lifeline.org.
Jackie and Jen are joined by Bradi Harrison, a mother who lost her 19 year old son, Jack Nathan, to an accidental overdose of fentanyl.
Bradi opens up about the pain she has endured, and what has kept her going through an incredibly difficult time.
Plus, how she continues Jack’s legacy of helping others through their mental health struggle with the Happy Jack clothing line and foundation.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following podcast contains topics of mental health and loss,
which may be difficult to listen to. If you, or
anyone you know is struggling, help is available. Call nine
to eight eight or visit nine A eight lifeline dot Org.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi guys, it's Jen Fessler.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hey, it's Jackie Golschneider and we are two Jersey Jays.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi Jack, Hi, bibe.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
What's been going on?
Speaker 4 (00:24):
I mean it's been I'm so exhausted. So is Rachel.
My daughter's twenty third birthday yesterday. So always it's an ordeal.
You would think that after maybe you know, nineteen, it
would stop being such a big deal, but it just doesn't.
So we were down the shore. We packed it up,
We went into the city. We went to Sacks, We
(00:46):
had lunch there, it was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
We went shopping.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
We decided that there was nothing at Sacks that we
were going to plunk our money down.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So we ended up at Mango. Have you been there?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, Well they have Mangos all over Spain Europe.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Yeah, no, I've been to the ones. Jeff loves them,
but like they just now opening Garden State whatever. So
we ended up there and then it was like we
didn't even shop for Rachel, which I appreciate it. We
ended up shopping for my son, who doesn't ever shop,
and that was just exhausting. I like, just would rather
order now online. I know, I have to say bike
(01:22):
shopping is.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I actually have to take my kids shopping this afternoon
because they're going to do Like we're in the they
just finished their sophomore year of high school, my older ones,
so they're in the building your resume now for college
phase and they're doing this great program at Duke.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
For two weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But we just got the packing list and they have
to wear like a suit for presentations, and they don't
have a suit but the bottom. That's so we're going
to We're going to suit shopping. I was going to say,
go straight to men's warehouse.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, there's actually a place in Paramus that that we
go to Salaretta or one of those No, not a
fancy one. It's like they it's just they have so
many suits. But anyway, so last night I had two
that graduated middle school, which is very bittersweet for me.
Next year I'll have all four at the same high
school for two years. So I said to Evan, I
(02:22):
you know, next year, I guess they'll just drive with
their older brothers to school and I won't have to
take them to school anymore. And he was like, oh,
that's awesome, that's the best. And I said, no, it's
not awesome. Like I feel a little sad about it.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
You know, tomorrow's the.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Last day that I'll be driving my kids to school,
and I'm sure there'll be one offs. But I think
it's a difference in the way that like, I don't
want to generalize, but like moms and dads think about
this kind of stuff, Like Evan's like, this is great,
you're getting your freedom back, you're getting your morning's back.
But I think it's I don't know, it's sad. At
this mom, I was like, whooo, I had none of that.
(02:59):
Oh really no, No, I got absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
I was like, and especially when they got there, all
had their drive when Rachel all, I mean I only
have two. But when Rachel got a driver's license, because
Zach at that point was gone a year into college,
I was like, yay, I am so bye bye kiss
and drop see yah.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah. And by the way, this whole college process, like.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
This is not how we did it.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
When we were kids, like I played much advice for
you on that but for this podcast. But all of
this nonsense that you have to jump through free conces
just to get in anywhere.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I wasted so much money. I cannot even tell you
on that whole process. And I would do it differently.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Today than Oh I have to talk off camera the
college counselors and the act tutors. And I remember Zach
Got he was always a great test taker. I don't
know how he didn't inherit that from me, but he
got like a really good score, like on his Aspire,
which is like the pre Act.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
It was like, you're range is thirty one to thirty three.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And I still paid so much money for tutoring and
he ended up with like a thirty two. It was
so ridiculous, so much stuff that I feel like I
just wasted money on.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
But I know tutoring. I should have gone into tutoring.
Forget being a lawyer. Should have been a tutor. It
may makes so much money. Agreed, it's amazing. Can I
ask you today's guest is a personal friend of yours?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It correct?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
She is? She is okay, so why don't you tell
us about her? Let's introduce her, because wow, what a story.
But I'm not clear on how you actually how you
guys know each other.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Well, okay, so we actually share a best friend and
we are dear friends. Now we've been dear friends for
years and years we've been away together. But I met
Brady originally through my friend Helene, and they went to
college together. They went to Ithaca together and they were
just the best of friends freshman year on. Still are
(05:10):
with their friend Becca. But so I got to know
Brady because we all went away for Helene turned forty
and she took a bunch of us away. We went
to this place in Jamaica called Aminoka, and we all
just bonded. It was this fabulous experience. Her name is
Brady Harrison and so and then just through the years
we've just been you know, friends since and anyway, so
(05:33):
I guess back around five years ago. It was twenty
twenty July of twenty twenty, I got a call from
another friend there's a bunch of us that are very
close saying that she heard that Brady's son, his name
was Jack, had died overnight. And it was don't even
(06:00):
know what she was talking about. My cousin Cindy, who's
also very close to Helene, and I couldn't even understand
what she was saying. And this kid, Jack is the
same age as my son, as Helene's son, as cindy son.
I mean, they've known each other forever and anyway, and
it's just it was so crazy because Helene didn't know
at that point and Cindy and I had to tell her,
(06:23):
and it was just the most And this is I'm
not even talking about Brady at this point. Just telling
Helene this about her best friend's son who had they
all grew up together, was so horrific and that was
only that was just, you know, not just but that
was me here in the news and then having to
tell Helene and in fact, Brady's beautiful, amazing, just glorious son,
(06:49):
Jack Nathan, died of a fentanyl laced percocet. So this
is going back five years. And Jack was also this
real really gifted young artists, and like so many of us,
he struggled with mental illness and he had created this
(07:09):
brand called Happy Jack, and he put all of his
just emotions and pain and he poured it into this business.
And I don't know, he raised money for the Child
Mind Institute. He just did all these amazing things, and
he was he would make these sweats and t shirts
with like these smiley faces.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
But they were they weren't smiley faces.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
They were kind of like jig jag jagged smiley faces
and just talking about you know, anxiety and depression and
things that he had been through. And after Jack passed,
his legacy, one of his many legacies carried on through
his mom, Brady, Happy Jack is amazing and still doing
(07:57):
amazing things in this world. And it's funny, like all
the kids when Jack passed and they lived in living
Ston of Short Hills, but even to all the kids
here in our area, my daughter, everybody followed Jack Nathan
because he was so dynamic and they all had Happy
Jack clothing. And I don't know, and this foundation has
(08:18):
continued to thrive. But you know, Brady has talks a
lot about what she's been through, and she is one
of the strongest women I've ever known, along with one
of the most thoughtful and just intelligent and kind and
beautiful and wonderful women. And her pain is indescribable and
(08:38):
she tries really hard though to you know, share her story,
especially with what's going on in this world with fentanyl.
So she's I'm gonna We're gonna bring her in and
she's going to tell you more. And I know she's
going to touch all of you. This story is impossible
and heartbreaking. But she uses her pain. You know, she's
(09:00):
a warrior and she uses her pain for good. So
she's just so hard for you to meet her.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Horrifying.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's so scary to think that, you know, it's like
the littlest drop of fentanyl can kill you. And with
four teenagers, I worry just constantly.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Yes, you know, I trust my kids, but no, no, no,
it's not even it's so Jackie, we all, I don't
trust the world.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Freaked out. No, there's they're not.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
It is what's happened with this fentanyl crisis in this country.
And Brady's going to tell you more. Is is so
scary and horrifying. But so anyway, you guys, I just
I do want to say though, that Brady is a
lot of things. She's Jack's mom, and she's also the
mother of a beautiful, uh young woman named Drew, and
(09:53):
she was always just just creative and really smart and
really fun and has her own strugg with mental illness
that I'm sure she'll share as do I, as do
so many of us. But she's been through it and
I'm not going to speak on her behalf anymore. I
just I want to bring her in and I think
that you guys are going to be so overwhelmingly touched
(10:16):
by her story. So, without further ado, here is my
very dear friend, Brady Harrison.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Thank you, my love.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
We want to just take us back. You know you're
asked to do that constantly. Maybe it's I don't know,
you tell me. I don't know what it is, cathartic
in some way, but I know you're always asked to
take take us back to that day.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I hate even asking, well.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
You know why, because it goes back even further. To
be able to clearly articulate what happened that day, you
have to know who my son was and what his
struggles were. So my son, Jack Nathan struggle with both
anxiety and depression, but he was very forthcoming about how
(11:00):
he felt, like, completely transparent. He sort of wore like
a badge of honor, which is very unusual for kids
who are nineteen. Had a huge social circle, you know,
never without a friend in sight, so that certainly wasn't
the The issue was internally, right. He struggled internally, and
(11:21):
as a mother, all you want to do is make
your kid happy. I would have done anything. He was
in therapy, we were trying medication. I had flown to
University of Denver to try and help him. Fast forward,
he says to me, one day, you know what, Mom,
If I can help just one person not feel the
way I do, it'll be worth it. And what he
(11:42):
meant was he wanted to start a company called Happy Jack,
which is a nickname some casting agent gave him when
he modeled when he was a baby, and he came
up with the idea that he would parlay his love
of art and painting into a business, that he would
(12:03):
sell this art on apparel or canvases to raise money
for kids who struggled like he did. So he launched
Happy Jack World on June seventh of twenty twenty, and
he sent a text to everyone in his contact lists,
Jack Nathan, if you're getting this right now, You've been
(12:23):
part of my journey with my struggle with mental illness.
A portion of every purchase will go towards the Childmind Institute.
Now at this time, I didn't even know what the
Childmine Institute was. Within the first week of sales, Jack
donated one thousand dollars, which I only found out about
because he posted it on Instagram. Fast forward that was
(12:47):
June seventh. Fast forward July third. He like second. He
tells me he is going to a party in Marlborough,
New Jersey. If my son and I were extremely close,
like beyond, we told one another, we loved each other
about ten times a day, He's going to this party.
Of course, I say, I love you. He says, I
(13:09):
love you. I say, be safe and he left. He
texted me at eleven forty nine that night and he said, Mom,
I'm going to stay here, really not safe to drive home.
And by that I just took it as like it's
late and it's an arrow away and he's not going
to drive. I didn't really think anything of it, and
(13:31):
I said, I love you more than life. He wrote,
I love you more than life. Not unusual texts, and
the next morning I heard nothing. I texted him and
I called him. I texted his best friend and nothing.
I didn't. It was like one o'clock. I didn't hadn't
(13:51):
heard from him. I figured he was sleeping at his
phone off. And then the next phone call I got
was from Jack's father, and it was a phone call
that no parent on this planet would care to receive.
(14:13):
And he just just said he didn't wake up, and
you know, you're in complete disbelieve. I fell to my
knees screaming. It was crazy. I mean, I'm shaking like
(14:34):
just telling you guys this story. But we came to
find out later after we got the autopsy results, was
that Jack had taken at some point after he texted
me at eleven forty nine, which I thought was just
how do you have such a you know, articulate conversation
(14:55):
with your mom? And began some time after that he
had ventanyl in his system, and if you know anything
about ventanyl, it is fifty times stronger than morphine heroin
or a hundred times stronger than morphine. I think fifty
(15:15):
times stronger than heroin. And he basically he took what
I later found out a percocet, and that what he
thought was a percoset had ventanyl in it. And all
it takes is two milligrams a ventanyl to stop your heart,
(15:39):
especially for someone who has zero tolerance for it. And
when I say to two milligrams, we're talking literally grains
of sand. Like if you took a salt shaker and
you put it in the palm of your hand, it
fits on the tip of a pencil. That's how lethal
it is. And it's not myself heart. And he never
(16:00):
woke up. And at the time I really didn't know
what fentanyl was. You're talking. It was twenty twenty, right,
so I had heard of it, but it's nowhere near
the epidemic that it is today, or at least people
didn't speak about it now. It's like you can't swing
about without someone knowing someone, right. So for two years
(16:26):
I didn't mention how Jack had passed because I wanted
him to be remembered for who he was rather than
how he left us. And he was a mental health advocate,
and that's who he was at his heart. He wanted
kids his age to live freely. I'm proud and I'm
apologetically and I admired him for that. He was completely transparent,
(16:51):
and he taught me how to be transparent. And after
two years, I said, I can't just watch all these
kids disappear. And I felt like I had a sense
of responsibility to share my story, to warn other parents,
to warn other kids. My son looks no different than
(17:15):
every other kid.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
I mean, well, he did a little bit bray because
he was so gorgeous.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
This is Jack and this is my dog actually, who
passed away a year later, but like he was the
most delicious.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Beyond I'm telling you he had like a cult following.
I only know that.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I'm not just saying that, Brady, like you know that,
like my daughter who didn't know him, knew who he
was because he was number one. Sorry, he was just
he looks he looks exactly like you, one face, but
absolutely gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
But he had this.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Charisma that I didn't know him well, so I knew
you know about him through you, But he was just
like this, this this beacon of light. And I'm not
just saying it. It's I just remember what Rachel was like.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
What that kid?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
He was just so magnic.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Lady, When did he start struggling with mental illness? How
old was he?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Looking back? I think that's an excellent question. Looking back,
I would say probably maybe like freshman year ish. I
started noticing and I picture what he was wearing. He
sat on my kitchen counter. He's wearing timberlains and like
(18:37):
a button down and he just looked at me and
he's like, I'm not happy. Now. Like, as a parent,
you're like, what could you possibly be unhappy that? I mean,
he had an abundance of friends, good looking, twelve, a
huge circle of those who loved him. I couldn't. It
(19:00):
didn't make any sense to me. So what I came
to realize is that when you struggle and when you're
not happy, it has to do with everything that's internal, right,
and nothing that's external. There's nothing that you're going to
be able to pinpoint and say like, oh, he didn't
get a new iPhone, that's why he's depressed. Oh his
girlfriend broke up with him and that's why he's depressed.
(19:20):
It doesn't work like that. It's like there's this underlying
sadness and you can't often articulate why you're sad because
it's it's an imbalance, it's chemical, there's no outside You know,
situations can make it worse, but generally they're not the
(19:43):
root cause of why my son wasn't happy. So I
sort of brushed it off, like, yeah, and my ex
husband and I got divorced, and my son got worse,
and he went to college and got worse. The anxiety
got worse, and when he came home, he had to
come home because of COVID, which does not mix well
(20:06):
with anyone who struggles. I mean, you put someone who's
already anxious and depressed in to a home and tell
them not to leave. I mean, how would anyone fair? So?
I mean I I it was horrific. It was not
good for him, not good for him. I was completely isolating,
(20:27):
he was overwhelmed with schoolwork, and that's when he sort
of got it together to Laurn Chappy Jack. But you know,
you look, Jackie, I go back all the time, right
and I'm like, what could I have done differently? You
know what? You know? Could I have saved him? Could
(20:47):
I have parented differently? What if I said something in
the kitchen that day that you know, changed the trajectory
of his life? You do that, and I think it's
just natural for any parent to go backwards and question
everything and anything to make sense of it. But because
it's so senseless, it's just so senseless, don't you.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Do you feel like it's I think his his legacy
and what he did when he was live, and just
my own mind is so separate from the way that
he died. I mean, he was my he was murdered,
you know what I mean? Like, it's not like I
done to stop a criminals and fentonl from coming into
(21:35):
you know, this country in a pill.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I don't. I don't What would you have said to
him that could have stopped that?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Nothing thing?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
You now?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
My friend said to me, it was like equivalents like Brady,
It's like he got hit by a bus.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah. Is it a pill that was given to him
by other kids at the party or did he have
it with him?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
I don't know, you don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
It doesn't matter. I'm just wondering if anyone else there
I had ingested anything.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
I don't know. Okay, it was a twenty first birthday party.
I don't know. I don't know, and I wouldn't change
the outcomes, So I don't think i'd let myself go
through all of that.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Good after everything, when you decided to continue his legacy
of being a mental health advocate and telling his story,
how did it is that what happy Jack is now?
You kept it going?
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Yes? Absolutely, you know, like I said, I feel a
sense of responsibility, and of course it's very personal and
emotional to me, and I don't want to let his
business go because I guess if I'm being completely transparent,
it's like me letting him go. But it's hard because
(23:00):
he's not here, and he's not here to tell me
what to do, you know what designed to put out
and he left behind all these like amazing designs and
this like amazing logo of this like crooked smile because
he was like, it's impossible to be completely happy all
the time. But I wish he was here to tell
(23:21):
me what to do, because it's it's really hard running
your son's business when he is no longer here. You know,
typically the child falls into the parents' footsteps and is
mentored that way. It's doesn't not supposed to work this way.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Right, So what is the charity? How has the charity
been doing, and how has it helped people? And what
do you do on a daily basis?
Speaker 5 (23:55):
So I, on my ends worked to maintain, maintain, just
like the inner workings of this site and the business
end of it. We launched the Happy Jack Foundation a
couple of years after he passed because we wanted to
be able to donate more than just taking a portion
of our sales. So we set up a program with
University of Denver, which is where Jack went to college,
(24:17):
and we have a program which we've been doing for
the past five years where any student in the arts
can apply for this scholarship in which they are given
X amount of money to create some sort of form
of mental health project. But it could be at any
scope in the arts, ballet, sculpture, painting, video gaming. It
(24:40):
just has to center around mental health. And we've been
able to give that to some of the students and
watch their projects, which has been, you know, like this
tangible thing that we've been able to say. But we've
donated ourselves to the Childmind Institute Active Minds. We've worked
with some of the most incredible people. I always say like,
(25:03):
I'm the luckiest unlucky person I know. We've had I
mean with that billboards every year in Times Square donated
to us in the mission of raising fentanyl awareness. And
I've met so many families who are part of this
club that know none of us want to be a part.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Of but I've met We're doing Jack, We're doing am
We're having an event in August about Pensanyl about, you know,
raising money for ferensonal awareness. And so Brady's already introduced
me to Charlie and his father. Charlie's Charlie passed very
(25:46):
similar to the way that Jack passed and around the
same time, right Bray, Yeah, yeah, So he was.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
A couple of years older than Jack, but similar situation.
And he started this fund called Song for Charlie. But
they are exclusively sentonal education, functional effects, changing the landscape
within the government. He's They're incredible this Ed and Mary
are the parents, and it's you know, I think what's
(26:18):
important to note is that they created Song for Charlie
after their son passed. I didn't create Happy Jack. You know,
Jack created Happy Jack. And this is my son's legacy
that he built. So I am just sort of taking
over the reins for him. But I will not take
credit for ever for my son's work, for you know,
(26:42):
his concept, his drive to help other kids like him
who struggled.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Is it hard bratty because some people might say, Okay,
so there's crossover, right, I don't know there's is their
crossover between mental health, I don't be infentanyl awareness. They're
two separate things, right, it's.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Yes and no, because I look, those who struggle have
a higher propensity to try stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, just.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I make themselves feel better.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
Yeah, but it could be the kid who you know,
goes to any one of these schools and says like,
oh my god, I have a test and I want
to cram, and someone gives them an.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Adderall all right, And that's what I mean, right.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Because adderall is lace. Percocet is lace, xenax is lace,
Cocaine is laced. I mean, you name it now, weed
is lace, the vapes are laced.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
So just so for people who have no idea, and
I also don't know so much of this. How does
something get laced with ventanol?
Speaker 5 (27:45):
So the precursors, which are the chemicals that are made
from thetonyl, are starting in China, and the Chinese are
also the ones who are responsible for creating the pill
press machines, so basically they press the pills to look
like any other pill that you would get from your doctor.
So the chemicals and this is the I'm just giving
(28:05):
you the generic root. Yes, it might come from other means,
but this is what you know sort of the normal.
This is what the path is. So the precursors are made,
they're shipped to Mexico. Mexico has all the cartels and
the labs and so forth, and then they are coming
across the border. The reason why they are using fentanyl
(28:29):
to mix into these pills, or even use fentanyl period
is because it's stronger than anything out there. You do
not need as much of it to make a pill
or to enhance a pill. It's a synthetic, so you
can make it yourself. You're not waiting for like the
you know, plants to grow in the fields in order
(28:51):
to create opium. It just doesn't work that way. So
it truly what it comes down to is greed. They
can manufacture more because it's cheaper, it's stronger, they can
get it onto the streets faster, and the margins are insane.
So their hope is to create addicts.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
How do you get bray I was gonna I've been
thinking about this a long time. It doesn't the only
part that doesn't add up is that it's so lethal,
right that the makers of it, you know, are losing.
They're trying you're trying to create an addict in terms
of right, if you're not trying to, you know, kill
your source, and it seems to be phentanol is so deadly.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, is there an amount that you got in that
doesn't kill you?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
Two milligrams is a lethal dose. And I told you
that it's like like grains of sand if you have
some sort of tolerance. I suppose two milligrams is not
going to do the trick in order to just stop
your life. My son and all of these kids, they're
they're not what you envision to be. Perhaps someone in
(30:02):
the streets, someone in drug rehabs. There kids who may
try something for the first time, that may take a
Mali at a party. You know, they're these are kids
who are you know, athletes and academics and successful. And
it blows away every stereotype that people might have of
(30:24):
those who are passing from fetanol or from drugs period.
So the manufacturers of the product, they don't care if
they have some casualties along the way, They'll just make more.
They just they don't care.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
You think about the fact that these kids are the brains,
especially boys, right, they're not developed until what they're twenty
six years old. Boys' brains. You're sending out your kid
into the world at age eighteen nineteen, and of course
I would have taken something in college.
Speaker 5 (30:58):
You passed me a p we write, Jen, you thought
you were invincible.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
I mean, yeah, one hundred percent. I remember taking what
is that one? Not molly?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Ecstasy? Remember ecstasy?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
That was big when I was in college, and yeah,
everybody was doing I don't even know what it is.
They called it ecstasy then in Texas. But it was
like funny, you know who's at that age? You're not
thinking about shit, You're thinking, no tonight, there is no
rap party.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
So how does a parent talk to their kid to
try to stop this? I mean, telling them not to
ever try anything? Is that realistic?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
What do you do?
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Probably not? I don't think that if I I mean,
of course I taught Jack don't do drugs, right, I
mean my kids smoke weed, which I didn't have an
issue with some parents do, but I was like, yeah,
but it's in MYSS, it's described to you and for
you, you really can't. There's no such thing as recreational drugs anymore.
(32:05):
It just doesn't exist the same way like Jen was saying,
it just doesn't exist. So they have something called fentanyl
test strips. Basically, you have to take the pill and
crush it and dilute it in water, and then you
take it's like a dipstick. You dip, you dip the
stick in and if it comes out like a pregnancy
test two lions, one lion, it's either negative or positive.
(32:29):
There can be false positive false negatives, but they're pretty
accurate fentanyl test strips. You can buy them anywhere. You
can buy them on Amazon. The only my biggest hesitation
lies in the fact that you can take one pill
right jack, and like I could split it in half.
(32:50):
You can take half, and I can take half, and
I don't wake up in the morning, but you do.
It's because the fentanyl is not evenly distributed in the pill.
It might have just been stuck in my half, but
you're fine. So unless you dilute the entire substance, you
will not know truly whether.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
What kind of these what kid is has the wherewithal
to say, I'm gonna go into the bathroom for I mean,
they're dipsticks, like they're like, these kids are not maybe
not all of them. I think that there are, you know,
and we're all we all try with our kids, and
but that's the part that is, so my kids are
they're older now, maybe they're still stupid.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I don't even I don't know.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
But they do give out fentanyl test strips and a
lot of the fraternities and the sororities, so today they're
much more aware, really. And there's also something called narcan
which reverses the effects of an overdose, which is a
spray that you put up each nostril, but you have
to have someone with you. A lot of these kids
who take something are by themselves, so that narkhan doesn't apply.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
And so narcam works for fentanyl. Correct, And how quickly
do you have to you? How quickly does fentanyl take
effect in you?
Speaker 5 (34:03):
It minutes?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Minutes?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Wow?
Speaker 5 (34:07):
How horrifying?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Is there a world? So I don't know too much about.
I know obviously ventinels in the news, But is there
a world in which fentanyl is completely wiped out from
the drug supply.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
I don't think so. I don't see it happening. It's
too easy to make and there's too much money to
be made. I think that's about in line. As long
as there's money to be had, people just don't give
a shit about human life, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Brad I have been close for a while and I
just always I said to you last week, Bra, like
I feel like sometimes I just say the wrong thing,
and of course it's all well intentioned. But we talked
about it about one of your other best friends who's like,
you know, I want to say to you. I wouldn't
say that now, but maybe when it first happened, you know,
time time, time, time. I mean, I don't know if
(34:57):
time is helping or I obviously I follow you and everything,
but I follow you on TikTok, and you're so open
and you have so many experiences every day dealing with
this grief that just doesn't quit, you know, and.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Think for me, And I've said this just recently, like
it feels like it just happened, Like it feels like
it just happened yesterday. I wake up every morning and
I go through like the litany of things that I
did that day or before or Jack's life, and so
I feel like I'm like treading water, standing still. But
(35:33):
everybody else is moving on as they should, because the
world keeps spinning. But it's hard for me as the
kids move further away from my son's passing, and my
friends even move further away from Jack's passing, and I
sort of like still here, and it's equally as hard
for me. You know, I see all of these kids
(35:56):
growing up and my son doesn't get to do that.
And you keep in mind, my son grew up with
Jessee and all these kids, and I watched them, i know,
meeting their significant others and working going out into the world.
And my son was a baby. He was nineteen years old.
(36:16):
I mean, he was almost twenty, but he didn't even
make it to his junior year in college. It's just like,
you know, you just say, like, it's not fair, just
not fair.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
So how do you how do you get through the days?
And have you gotten help for yourself mental health treatment.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
I have a daughter who looked at me shortly after
and said, do not go numb on me. And I
will never forget that, and I have to show up
for her, have to. I will not disappear. I will
(36:54):
do anything to make her life easier, to make her happy,
so that she doesn't, you know, continue to wallow in
her brother's passing. And I'm very sensitive to that. So
you know, people like I could never, I could never.
I don't have a choice, you know, I have a daughter,
(37:15):
and I have a significant other who loves me. I
have amazing friends and amazing parents, and I'm so grateful
for their support. I'm not a big group mental health
person in terms of like sitting in a group that
does not work for me. It just brings me down
to hear about other people's pain. So I'm I do
(37:36):
one on one occasionally, but even that, I just like,
I don't feel like crying for forty five minutes straight,
Like I just don't have it in me. I'm exhausted,
So I sleep a lot. I sleep a lot. Yeah,
an medication.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I mean, I'm not even asking you. I just don't
for myself, like a right. It's like I don't know
if there's enough prosact.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
In the world, of course I don't. Yeah, but it's
like it's like, do you ever you know that feeling
of like when you're present but not really present. Yes,
like you're there physically, but you're not there mentally. That's
what it feels like a lot of the time.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I know you get sometimes just a surprise like letter,
text or whatever from one of his friends. Yeah, I know,
how like that just now that lights you up because
he has an impact on so many of these kids.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Really, you know, it's so consistent what all of these
kids say about him. You know, like Jack told me
what was important in life. He didn't you know, give
a shit about anything else about and you know, it
was just about what he was doing and his happiness
and you know, forget about the nine to five, do
what makes you happy. And they believed in him, and
(38:50):
he believed in them. And you know, one day he
came up into my room and he's like, Mom, I
really think it's helping me to help other people. And
I was like, Jack, that's amazing. It's amazing. But you know,
at the end of the day, I couldn't take that
anxiety away from him. I couldn't take his relentless need
(39:11):
to do more. He's very existential, very introspective. He was
he called like limited drops, one of one. He was
one of one.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
How do you think those parents that you've gotten to know,
is it similar their grief and what five years later?
I mean, I don't know, But I don't know. I
just talked to Charlie or whatever. I'm about to meet
Charlie's dad. But is the pattern there are similar patterns
in terms of how parents.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
I will tell you that every single person grieves differently,
and I passes zero judgment. You know, some people immerse
themselves in work, some people immerse themselves in the cause.
Some people just becomes stagnant and can't leave their heal.
You know, I didn't. I don't think I left my
house for six months. I look. I moved out of
(40:06):
New Jersey to Florida because it hurt me so bad
to see all of these people that I had to
like sort of face what happened. And every time I
saw everyone, They're like, oh my god, what's the matter.
And it just like brings you back. And I every
baseball field, every soccer field, every pizza place he worked at.
(40:26):
It's really painful, incredibly hard. And I go back obviously
because all my friends are there and my daughter lives
with her father primarily, but it's it's hard for me.
It's really hard, and I don't I guess I feel
(40:47):
like sometimes people forget how hard it is.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Yeah, nobody knows how So few people that we know
understand how hard it is. Yeah, we imagine it.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You know, what would you like to see happy Jack
going forward?
Speaker 5 (41:07):
And I would love it to flourish. I would. Jack
launched the site in the first sight, and he was
disappointed because he wanted it to the site to crash
because so many people are on it. You know, I'd
love for it to be self sustaining. I'd love for
me to be able to help kids more than I
already do. I'm happy to speak to anyone and everyone
(41:30):
to let them know that, you know, Jack is you Jack,
You're no different than my son, and this is the
reality of the situation. And you know, I had one
of his friends say to me afterwards, I could have
been any one of us.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It could have and.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Yeah, so what would I like to see happen? Ultimately,
the reason why I speak is because I want to
save lives. I don't I don't want any parent to
who experience this pain. It's horrific, you know, I want
to you know, I'm going to break. I'm exhausted. It's
(42:10):
really exhausting to live with the pain of it. And
I don't wish that upon anyone. So if happy Jack,
and if my son's legacy could prevent a family from
coming down this path, and I'm going to keep launching
(42:31):
product and raising money and creating awareness.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Bray, what do you say to people who ask you
what to say to their kids? And again, I mean,
I know it's about two issues here, right, they're spent
it all and there's mental illness. But you know parents
that are sending their kids to college, and I don't
know if there is anything to completely prevent this from happening.
But is there are there things that you're tell you
that the.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
I mean that it's I will say, And there's there's
different stats on this. So right now, I had heard
from the DEA that it's seven out of ten pills
are at least right or have a lethal amount. So
if you literally say to your child, if someone's giving
(43:23):
you an adderall to stay off and you don't know
where that adderall has been, look at yourself in the
mirror and say, I have a seventy percent chance of
not waking up in the morning, would you take that pill?
I mean, that's the reality of it, even if it's
one and six or what I mean, the statistics are
(43:46):
so high, the probability is so high that it's almost
like you'd have to be really unintelligent not to have
that meaning.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Because they are kids are stupid.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
That's that's my son was one of them. I'm not
gonna lie. Look, my son didn't know any better. But
he lived fearless. He fearlessly, he was He would have
done anything, jump off a cliff, jump, dive into a
pool from a roof. I mean that's how he lived.
I don't think he would have lived any differently, but
I could. I can't guarantee your child's not going to
(44:19):
but I could try. I would also say, you know what,
if your kid's going to school and they're having such
extreme mental health struggles, pull them at a school, Like
not every kid is going to take the same path
in life. Right in our heads we say like, Okay,
they're gonna go to college, they're gonna get a job,
they're going to live in the city, they're gonna But
it doesn't work that way. So I don't know, maybe
(44:43):
I should have pulled Jack at a school when he wasn't.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Your story should have like, I know.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
I know, I can see it.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I'm like, it's like, it's like you're telling the story.
What do you think that?
Speaker 4 (44:54):
Like both my kids, Rachel had a great time just
three years her senior year, she was unhappy. Whatever that
looks like unhappy? My son was unhappy at times in college.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
He for a year.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
This was a bad I mean, I don't know. It's
a hard thing to figure out, right, I mean.
Speaker 5 (45:15):
It just and it's like once you put yourself out
there like I do on TikTok, I have like seventy
thousand followers, so like there are people who are like
who blame me? And I have to I have to
roll with that because if there's going to be people
like that, and I have to tune all of that
(45:36):
noise out in order to you guys know, with social media,
you have to tune all of that noise out.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Locked, de lea, blocked, deleap any Can it be in
something you smoke? Is it only in pill form something
that gets cut?
Speaker 5 (45:49):
I mean lately i've here I'm hearing that it's also
in marijuana. There is. There are so many dispensaries out there,
but they're not all licensed dispensaries. So you really have
to know if a dispensary is licensed or not. Like
I'll even say to my daughter who's almost twenty two, like,
if you're gonna smoke, it has to come from a
licensed dispensary. You have to know. You can't say like, oh,
(46:13):
my friend got it from a friend. They're okay, they know,
like no, yeah, no, Like like I look at mac Miller.
My son idolizes mac Miller. Yeah, you think he's a celebrity.
He has all this money, He would only get clean shit.
He died the same way. It just doesn't work that way.
Fentanyl doesn't care how much money you have, who the
(46:33):
hell you are, if you're a celebrity, if you're not,
it just there's it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
And in this country, do you know how many people
a year are affected by this?
Speaker 5 (46:45):
I mean they say, like a clane full of people
a day.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
What, oh my god? And is the government doing things?
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Are you involved?
Speaker 5 (46:56):
Oh yeah? I mean look at look there are people
who pro truy anti Trump. But at least he's trying, right,
at least he's trying. You, we're gonna put enough tariffs
on China, maybe they'll it'll affect change in the supply
and demand. You're gonna close the borders, maybe it'll prevent
(47:19):
substances from coming through. I do feel like he's trying.
You know, people are like as long as they're that,
you know, supply and demand, As long as there's demand
they'll always be supply. But it doesn't mean that we
can't try.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
You have to try. There's no what else I mean.
Speaker 5 (47:35):
You know, So I I'm okay with Trump for those
reasons alone.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Ray, how's Drew your daughter?
Speaker 5 (47:46):
Sherew's my daughter, She's my reason for being. I love her.
She's my happy place. My daughter and I actually have
been like approached by other kids saying like, how do
I help my parent? And you know, I say to them, like,
you will always, you will forever be your parents' happy place,
(48:09):
like she just will. And I she's doing good.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
She's she's doing I know she's doing good.
Speaker 5 (48:15):
She's got a job, she is a huge personality. She
has also has a lot of friends. I encourage her
to go to therapy again. She's twenty two. She'll do
with it what she will. But I love my kids unconditionally,
and I love the same way Jack did. I love.
(48:36):
When I love, I love, And if she needs me,
I go to her and and I told her no
matter where I am, I will always find her. And
she knows that. She knows that.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
So I'm in all of you. I'm so sorry for
your pain. I can't imagine, but your strength is unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
By the way, guys, I mean all of us. I
think it's helpful just to hear about the mental health thing.
It's so it's not just kids, right, it's us. I mean,
it's me. When I was a kid, it was it
took a different form, but then I didn't get the
help for it that I needed. Back in the day,
when I was in college, i had crazy. It was
(49:26):
more it's all in the same umbrella, but it was
more anxiety than it was depression, debilitating anxiety. And I mean,
I've been through so many different therapists until I you know,
this my current one that I've been with for years
and years. I didn't meet her until I was until
my kids were twelve, and you know, my daughter has
(49:48):
just been diagnosed with diabetes. Anyway, the point is that
like there there are things. There are so many things.
And I'm a big medication fan when it comes to
mental illness.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I mean, and Bray, you and I have spoken about this.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
I mean, you've had your own, you know, dealings before Jack, right,
with mental illness. I mean, it's bitch, but I feel
like there's I used to be very very very aware
of it. I guess, especially when it comes to your kids,
because there are there are answers, right, there's the.
Speaker 5 (50:18):
There's Anne's Look, genetics come into play, right, if you
have mental health illness in your family, there's a higher
chance that it'll you know, trickle down the bloodline. And
you know, I certainly do I think about you know,
my daughter has children. I mean I hope that their
(50:41):
mental health is okay. And I I used to you know, look,
there was such a stigma against kids taking medication back
in the day, and I didn't want my kid to
take medication. Do you remember, like in the sleepway camps,
you're like, oh, well they the kids would be like
they leave to go get a ill or they go
to mind.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
Well, my kids will leave do a good growth hormoney
and insulin.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
They go to them. They're lining up like nobody right,
this stigma is gone, and you know they say, like,
if you were physically ill, you would take medication. So
if you're emotionally not well, and it's not just like
(51:26):
I'm sad, I'm going to take a pill, it's that
underlying sadness that I told you that you can't look.
I remember my mother looking at me and saying like,
what is it? Why are you so unhappy? Like what
did you this? Did do that? And she did what
I did, Like you try and find the thing, because
as a parent, all you want to do is fix
(51:46):
the problem, and you cannot. You can't fix it. I tried,
My mother tried, like but when I went on medication
and found the right medication, I got my life back.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Me too, me too.
Speaker 5 (52:02):
So you know, one hand, I'm saying, don't take medication.
On the other hand, I'm saying, take medication.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Hey, that's prescribed by a doctor that you're picking up
at CVS.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Very different, And I'm going to sit down and have
a talk with my kids because I didn't know any
of this, and I didn't know how prevalent it was,
and that alone could change the trajectory of their lives.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
So thank you for that was our whole I remember,
just yeah, after Jack passed, all of us were like
and our kids wore the same age as Jack, and
we're all like, do you understand not once, not even once?
Can you take a pill? That's never? It is not
that world never.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
So where can people find out more about the charity,
How can they get involved, how can they help it grow.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
So the site my son created is called Happyjackworld dot
com and there's a donation link, you know, right on
the site. But it makes me happy when people buy
his designs and I get to see the kids in
college at parties and all that, like wearing Happy Jack
shirts or Happy Jack has.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
By the way, they're the best. I cannot believe that.
I'm so stupid. I didn't put on my sweats today.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
I have.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Literally, they're my favorite.
Speaker 4 (53:17):
They're not like shitty sweats, like qually heavy, fabulous sweats,
Rachel Wars like lit'sten my hands.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
We did.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
It's just it's not just half webpads. They're amazing. Yeah,
they're so great.
Speaker 5 (53:32):
It's you know. We were donated a pop up store
in South Street Seaport right after my son passed, and
we had all of his artwork and we had this
amazing wall where people would come in and write about
their mental illness and people come in just read the
balls and we sold merchandise and it was like one
of the best things that if I could do that
(53:54):
all over again, I would. I would do it because
I think once people hear the story from me from
a mother and people see my son's face, you know,
like I want I don't want it to just be
a story. I want them to like, look at my son.
He was nineteen years old. You know, he played lacrosse.
He plays it like he Yeah, he's no different, no different.
(54:22):
So I think that it's once you make it as
real as you can for these kids and have it
not like sit down, Like look at his face. Look
at his initial posts on Happy Jack. He started this company,
not me. Go back on Instagram, you know, at a
Happy Jack world and look at his original posts. He'll
(54:42):
tell he was very He'll tell you I have anxiety,
I struggle with depression. I want to be the voice
for kids who have none. That was well him, and
I'm just trying to continue what he started. And that's
why I am as transparent as I am today.
Speaker 4 (55:03):
Okay, I love you madly. Over the Moon Beyond and
you guys were having an event in August, so we'll
both Brady and I both and Jackie obviously I'd love
to be there. Yeah, and a big fundraiser which we'll
talk more about. But I don't even what do you say, Brady,
(55:25):
I just I love you. I'm in awe of you,
your pain is our pain.
Speaker 5 (55:30):
You know, I love you dearly. You know that. I
would just say, even if your kids tell you you're annoying,
keep talking, yeah, keep talking, going to you know, I sent,
I was the mom, I sent the videos, I pharted
all that shit that we you know, we all do, right.
Jack would say like, do you ever send me anything good?
(55:50):
I'm like, but it can happen, And He's like, man,
you worry too much. Well, I know.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
Rachel's like, how many times do you send me a
video of Bret? How do I break out of my
car if it goes underwater? It's how many of those
who would have watched.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
I didn't even think of that, Oh jeez, because they
come up and then you just forward forward for I know,
it's very scary.
Speaker 5 (56:07):
The statistics are a bit higher with a fantastical but yeah,
I mean, anyone could reach out to me. I'm you know,
our email addresses on the site, their resources on the
site as well. We've had a ton of press coverage.
You know. I encourage everyone to speak out and own
(56:30):
who they are and just keep talking.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
Thank you for everything that you do, because you could
have very easily just you know, crawled up in the
ball and and not let anyone see your face. And
you took the complete opposite route and decided to make
Jack's mission your mission. And you probably have saved so
many lives that you don't even know about.
Speaker 5 (56:52):
I hope.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
So yeah, I'm sure you have.
Speaker 5 (56:56):
I hope.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I love you.
Speaker 5 (56:58):
I love you more. Thank you, Brady, Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (57:03):
That was a description of my worst nightmare all of
all mothers. I just I don't know that I can
talk right now.
Speaker 4 (57:14):
I know, well you have to because someone has to
close out the segment.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
But I think, if anything, it will start a very
important conversation in my house that has never been had,
and I would guess a lot of people have never
had with their kids because you're.
Speaker 4 (57:32):
Timing of this is really perfect in terms of like
you're sending your kids off to college soon.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
I feel like that is just such well.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
Also, they go to curious time, and you know, it's
so scary to think that people are so reckless with
other people's lives and to think of the amount of
pain that she has to carry every.
Speaker 4 (57:56):
Day, every day, and it doesn't That's why I said
to her, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (57:59):
Are you? I say, stupid? Ship?
Speaker 4 (58:02):
Is it getting any better. No, it's not getting better.
It's never going to get better. It'll get different, maybe
not better, you know, all.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
Right, you're amazing for that event, and keep me posted,
keep us well posted on the details, and it's so
important and happy Jackie. Guys, So to happy Jack buy
some merchant charity.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
Okay, lovey bye guys, Bye guys,
The following podcast contains topics of mental health and loss,
which may be difficult to listen to. If you, or
anyone you know is struggling, help is available. Call nine
to eight eight or visit nine A eight lifeline dot Org.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi guys, it's Jen Fessler.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hey, it's Jackie Golschneider and we are two Jersey Jays.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi Jack, Hi, bibe.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
What's been going on?
Speaker 4 (00:24):
I mean it's been I'm so exhausted. So is Rachel.
My daughter's twenty third birthday yesterday. So always it's an ordeal.
You would think that after maybe you know, nineteen, it
would stop being such a big deal, but it just doesn't.
So we were down the shore. We packed it up,
We went into the city. We went to Sacks, We
(00:46):
had lunch there, it was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
We went shopping.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
We decided that there was nothing at Sacks that we
were going to plunk our money down.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So we ended up at Mango. Have you been there?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, Well they have Mangos all over Spain Europe.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Yeah, no, I've been to the ones. Jeff loves them,
but like they just now opening Garden State whatever. So
we ended up there and then it was like we
didn't even shop for Rachel, which I appreciate it. We
ended up shopping for my son, who doesn't ever shop,
and that was just exhausting. I like, just would rather
order now online. I know, I have to say bike
(01:22):
shopping is.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I actually have to take my kids shopping this afternoon
because they're going to do Like we're in the they
just finished their sophomore year of high school, my older ones,
so they're in the building your resume now for college
phase and they're doing this great program at Duke.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
For two weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But we just got the packing list and they have
to wear like a suit for presentations, and they don't
have a suit but the bottom. That's so we're going
to We're going to suit shopping. I was going to say,
go straight to men's warehouse.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, there's actually a place in Paramus that that we
go to Salaretta or one of those No, not a
fancy one. It's like they it's just they have so
many suits. But anyway, so last night I had two
that graduated middle school, which is very bittersweet for me.
Next year I'll have all four at the same high
school for two years. So I said to Evan, I
(02:22):
you know, next year, I guess they'll just drive with
their older brothers to school and I won't have to
take them to school anymore. And he was like, oh,
that's awesome, that's the best. And I said, no, it's
not awesome. Like I feel a little sad about it.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
You know, tomorrow's the.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Last day that I'll be driving my kids to school,
and I'm sure there'll be one offs. But I think
it's a difference in the way that like, I don't
want to generalize, but like moms and dads think about
this kind of stuff, Like Evan's like, this is great,
you're getting your freedom back, you're getting your morning's back.
But I think it's I don't know, it's sad. At
this mom, I was like, whooo, I had none of that.
(02:59):
Oh really no, No, I got absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
I was like, and especially when they got there, all
had their drive when Rachel all, I mean I only
have two. But when Rachel got a driver's license, because
Zach at that point was gone a year into college,
I was like, yay, I am so bye bye kiss
and drop see yah.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah. And by the way, this whole college process, like.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
This is not how we did it.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
When we were kids, like I played much advice for
you on that but for this podcast. But all of
this nonsense that you have to jump through free conces
just to get in anywhere.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I wasted so much money. I cannot even tell you
on that whole process. And I would do it differently.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Today than Oh I have to talk off camera the
college counselors and the act tutors. And I remember Zach
Got he was always a great test taker. I don't
know how he didn't inherit that from me, but he
got like a really good score, like on his Aspire,
which is like the pre Act.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
It was like, you're range is thirty one to thirty three.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And I still paid so much money for tutoring and
he ended up with like a thirty two. It was
so ridiculous, so much stuff that I feel like I
just wasted money on.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
But I know tutoring. I should have gone into tutoring.
Forget being a lawyer. Should have been a tutor. It
may makes so much money. Agreed, it's amazing. Can I
ask you today's guest is a personal friend of yours?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It correct?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
She is? She is okay, so why don't you tell
us about her? Let's introduce her, because wow, what a story.
But I'm not clear on how you actually how you
guys know each other.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Well, okay, so we actually share a best friend and
we are dear friends. Now we've been dear friends for
years and years we've been away together. But I met
Brady originally through my friend Helene, and they went to
college together. They went to Ithaca together and they were
just the best of friends freshman year on. Still are
(05:10):
with their friend Becca. But so I got to know
Brady because we all went away for Helene turned forty
and she took a bunch of us away. We went
to this place in Jamaica called Aminoka, and we all
just bonded. It was this fabulous experience. Her name is
Brady Harrison and so and then just through the years
we've just been you know, friends since and anyway, so
(05:33):
I guess back around five years ago. It was twenty
twenty July of twenty twenty, I got a call from
another friend there's a bunch of us that are very
close saying that she heard that Brady's son, his name
was Jack, had died overnight. And it was don't even
(06:00):
know what she was talking about. My cousin Cindy, who's
also very close to Helene, and I couldn't even understand
what she was saying. And this kid, Jack is the
same age as my son, as Helene's son, as cindy son.
I mean, they've known each other forever and anyway, and
it's just it was so crazy because Helene didn't know
at that point and Cindy and I had to tell her,
(06:23):
and it was just the most And this is I'm
not even talking about Brady at this point. Just telling
Helene this about her best friend's son who had they
all grew up together, was so horrific and that was
only that was just, you know, not just but that
was me here in the news and then having to
tell Helene and in fact, Brady's beautiful, amazing, just glorious son,
(06:49):
Jack Nathan, died of a fentanyl laced percocet. So this
is going back five years. And Jack was also this
real really gifted young artists, and like so many of us,
he struggled with mental illness and he had created this
(07:09):
brand called Happy Jack, and he put all of his
just emotions and pain and he poured it into this business.
And I don't know, he raised money for the Child
Mind Institute. He just did all these amazing things, and
he was he would make these sweats and t shirts
with like these smiley faces.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
But they were they weren't smiley faces.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
They were kind of like jig jag jagged smiley faces
and just talking about you know, anxiety and depression and
things that he had been through. And after Jack passed,
his legacy, one of his many legacies carried on through
his mom, Brady, Happy Jack is amazing and still doing
(07:57):
amazing things in this world. And it's funny, like all
the kids when Jack passed and they lived in living
Ston of Short Hills, but even to all the kids
here in our area, my daughter, everybody followed Jack Nathan
because he was so dynamic and they all had Happy
Jack clothing. And I don't know, and this foundation has
(08:18):
continued to thrive. But you know, Brady has talks a
lot about what she's been through, and she is one
of the strongest women I've ever known, along with one
of the most thoughtful and just intelligent and kind and
beautiful and wonderful women. And her pain is indescribable and
(08:38):
she tries really hard though to you know, share her story,
especially with what's going on in this world with fentanyl.
So she's I'm gonna We're gonna bring her in and
she's going to tell you more. And I know she's
going to touch all of you. This story is impossible
and heartbreaking. But she uses her pain. You know, she's
(09:00):
a warrior and she uses her pain for good. So
she's just so hard for you to meet her.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Horrifying.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's so scary to think that, you know, it's like
the littlest drop of fentanyl can kill you. And with
four teenagers, I worry just constantly.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Yes, you know, I trust my kids, but no, no, no,
it's not even it's so Jackie, we all, I don't
trust the world.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Freaked out. No, there's they're not.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
It is what's happened with this fentanyl crisis in this country.
And Brady's going to tell you more. Is is so
scary and horrifying. But so anyway, you guys, I just
I do want to say though, that Brady is a
lot of things. She's Jack's mom, and she's also the
mother of a beautiful, uh young woman named Drew, and
(09:53):
she was always just just creative and really smart and
really fun and has her own strugg with mental illness
that I'm sure she'll share as do I, as do
so many of us. But she's been through it and
I'm not going to speak on her behalf anymore. I
just I want to bring her in and I think
that you guys are going to be so overwhelmingly touched
(10:16):
by her story. So, without further ado, here is my
very dear friend, Brady Harrison.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Thank you, my love.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
We want to just take us back. You know you're
asked to do that constantly. Maybe it's I don't know,
you tell me. I don't know what it is, cathartic
in some way, but I know you're always asked to
take take us back to that day.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I hate even asking, well.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
You know why, because it goes back even further. To
be able to clearly articulate what happened that day, you
have to know who my son was and what his
struggles were. So my son, Jack Nathan struggle with both
anxiety and depression, but he was very forthcoming about how
(11:00):
he felt, like, completely transparent. He sort of wore like
a badge of honor, which is very unusual for kids
who are nineteen. Had a huge social circle, you know,
never without a friend in sight, so that certainly wasn't
the The issue was internally, right. He struggled internally, and
(11:21):
as a mother, all you want to do is make
your kid happy. I would have done anything. He was
in therapy, we were trying medication. I had flown to
University of Denver to try and help him. Fast forward,
he says to me, one day, you know what, Mom,
If I can help just one person not feel the
way I do, it'll be worth it. And what he
(11:42):
meant was he wanted to start a company called Happy Jack,
which is a nickname some casting agent gave him when
he modeled when he was a baby, and he came
up with the idea that he would parlay his love
of art and painting into a business, that he would
(12:03):
sell this art on apparel or canvases to raise money
for kids who struggled like he did. So he launched
Happy Jack World on June seventh of twenty twenty, and
he sent a text to everyone in his contact lists,
Jack Nathan, if you're getting this right now, You've been
(12:23):
part of my journey with my struggle with mental illness.
A portion of every purchase will go towards the Childmind Institute.
Now at this time, I didn't even know what the
Childmine Institute was. Within the first week of sales, Jack
donated one thousand dollars, which I only found out about
because he posted it on Instagram. Fast forward that was
(12:47):
June seventh. Fast forward July third. He like second. He
tells me he is going to a party in Marlborough,
New Jersey. If my son and I were extremely close,
like beyond, we told one another, we loved each other
about ten times a day, He's going to this party.
Of course, I say, I love you. He says, I
(13:09):
love you. I say, be safe and he left. He
texted me at eleven forty nine that night and he said, Mom,
I'm going to stay here, really not safe to drive home.
And by that I just took it as like it's
late and it's an arrow away and he's not going
to drive. I didn't really think anything of it, and
(13:31):
I said, I love you more than life. He wrote,
I love you more than life. Not unusual texts, and
the next morning I heard nothing. I texted him and
I called him. I texted his best friend and nothing.
I didn't. It was like one o'clock. I didn't hadn't
(13:51):
heard from him. I figured he was sleeping at his
phone off. And then the next phone call I got
was from Jack's father, and it was a phone call
that no parent on this planet would care to receive.
(14:13):
And he just just said he didn't wake up, and
you know, you're in complete disbelieve. I fell to my
knees screaming. It was crazy. I mean, I'm shaking like
(14:34):
just telling you guys this story. But we came to
find out later after we got the autopsy results, was
that Jack had taken at some point after he texted
me at eleven forty nine, which I thought was just
how do you have such a you know, articulate conversation
(14:55):
with your mom? And began some time after that he
had ventanyl in his system, and if you know anything
about ventanyl, it is fifty times stronger than morphine heroin
or a hundred times stronger than morphine. I think fifty
(15:15):
times stronger than heroin. And he basically he took what
I later found out a percocet, and that what he
thought was a percoset had ventanyl in it. And all
it takes is two milligrams a ventanyl to stop your heart,
(15:39):
especially for someone who has zero tolerance for it. And
when I say to two milligrams, we're talking literally grains
of sand. Like if you took a salt shaker and
you put it in the palm of your hand, it
fits on the tip of a pencil. That's how lethal
it is. And it's not myself heart. And he never
(16:00):
woke up. And at the time I really didn't know
what fentanyl was. You're talking. It was twenty twenty, right,
so I had heard of it, but it's nowhere near
the epidemic that it is today, or at least people
didn't speak about it now. It's like you can't swing
about without someone knowing someone, right. So for two years
(16:26):
I didn't mention how Jack had passed because I wanted
him to be remembered for who he was rather than
how he left us. And he was a mental health advocate,
and that's who he was at his heart. He wanted
kids his age to live freely. I'm proud and I'm
apologetically and I admired him for that. He was completely transparent,
(16:51):
and he taught me how to be transparent. And after
two years, I said, I can't just watch all these
kids disappear. And I felt like I had a sense
of responsibility to share my story, to warn other parents,
to warn other kids. My son looks no different than
(17:15):
every other kid.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
I mean, well, he did a little bit bray because
he was so gorgeous.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
This is Jack and this is my dog actually, who
passed away a year later, but like he was the
most delicious.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Beyond I'm telling you he had like a cult following.
I only know that.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I'm not just saying that, Brady, like you know that,
like my daughter who didn't know him, knew who he
was because he was number one. Sorry, he was just
he looks he looks exactly like you, one face, but
absolutely gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
But he had this.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Charisma that I didn't know him well, so I knew
you know about him through you, But he was just
like this, this this beacon of light. And I'm not
just saying it. It's I just remember what Rachel was like.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
What that kid?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
He was just so magnic.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Lady, When did he start struggling with mental illness? How
old was he?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Looking back? I think that's an excellent question. Looking back,
I would say probably maybe like freshman year ish. I
started noticing and I picture what he was wearing. He
sat on my kitchen counter. He's wearing timberlains and like
(18:37):
a button down and he just looked at me and
he's like, I'm not happy. Now. Like, as a parent,
you're like, what could you possibly be unhappy that? I mean,
he had an abundance of friends, good looking, twelve, a
huge circle of those who loved him. I couldn't. It
(19:00):
didn't make any sense to me. So what I came
to realize is that when you struggle and when you're
not happy, it has to do with everything that's internal, right,
and nothing that's external. There's nothing that you're going to
be able to pinpoint and say like, oh, he didn't
get a new iPhone, that's why he's depressed. Oh his
girlfriend broke up with him and that's why he's depressed.
(19:20):
It doesn't work like that. It's like there's this underlying
sadness and you can't often articulate why you're sad because
it's it's an imbalance, it's chemical, there's no outside You know,
situations can make it worse, but generally they're not the
(19:43):
root cause of why my son wasn't happy. So I
sort of brushed it off, like, yeah, and my ex
husband and I got divorced, and my son got worse,
and he went to college and got worse. The anxiety
got worse, and when he came home, he had to
come home because of COVID, which does not mix well
(20:06):
with anyone who struggles. I mean, you put someone who's
already anxious and depressed in to a home and tell
them not to leave. I mean, how would anyone fair? So?
I mean I I it was horrific. It was not
good for him, not good for him. I was completely isolating,
(20:27):
he was overwhelmed with schoolwork, and that's when he sort
of got it together to Laurn Chappy Jack. But you know,
you look, Jackie, I go back all the time, right
and I'm like, what could I have done differently? You
know what? You know? Could I have saved him? Could
(20:47):
I have parented differently? What if I said something in
the kitchen that day that you know, changed the trajectory
of his life? You do that, and I think it's
just natural for any parent to go backwards and question
everything and anything to make sense of it. But because
it's so senseless, it's just so senseless, don't you.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Do you feel like it's I think his his legacy
and what he did when he was live, and just
my own mind is so separate from the way that
he died. I mean, he was my he was murdered,
you know what I mean? Like, it's not like I
done to stop a criminals and fentonl from coming into
(21:35):
you know, this country in a pill.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I don't. I don't What would you have said to
him that could have stopped that?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Nothing thing?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
You now?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
My friend said to me, it was like equivalents like Brady,
It's like he got hit by a bus.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah. Is it a pill that was given to him
by other kids at the party or did he have
it with him?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
I don't know, you don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
It doesn't matter. I'm just wondering if anyone else there
I had ingested anything.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
I don't know. Okay, it was a twenty first birthday party.
I don't know. I don't know, and I wouldn't change
the outcomes, So I don't think i'd let myself go
through all of that.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Good after everything, when you decided to continue his legacy
of being a mental health advocate and telling his story,
how did it is that what happy Jack is now?
You kept it going?
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Yes? Absolutely, you know, like I said, I feel a
sense of responsibility, and of course it's very personal and
emotional to me, and I don't want to let his
business go because I guess if I'm being completely transparent,
it's like me letting him go. But it's hard because
(23:00):
he's not here, and he's not here to tell me
what to do, you know what designed to put out
and he left behind all these like amazing designs and
this like amazing logo of this like crooked smile because
he was like, it's impossible to be completely happy all
the time. But I wish he was here to tell
(23:21):
me what to do, because it's it's really hard running
your son's business when he is no longer here. You know,
typically the child falls into the parents' footsteps and is
mentored that way. It's doesn't not supposed to work this way.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Right, So what is the charity? How has the charity
been doing, and how has it helped people? And what
do you do on a daily basis?
Speaker 5 (23:55):
So I, on my ends worked to maintain, maintain, just
like the inner workings of this site and the business
end of it. We launched the Happy Jack Foundation a
couple of years after he passed because we wanted to
be able to donate more than just taking a portion
of our sales. So we set up a program with
University of Denver, which is where Jack went to college,
(24:17):
and we have a program which we've been doing for
the past five years where any student in the arts
can apply for this scholarship in which they are given
X amount of money to create some sort of form
of mental health project. But it could be at any
scope in the arts, ballet, sculpture, painting, video gaming. It
(24:40):
just has to center around mental health. And we've been
able to give that to some of the students and
watch their projects, which has been, you know, like this
tangible thing that we've been able to say. But we've
donated ourselves to the Childmind Institute Active Minds. We've worked
with some of the most incredible people. I always say like,
(25:03):
I'm the luckiest unlucky person I know. We've had I
mean with that billboards every year in Times Square donated
to us in the mission of raising fentanyl awareness. And
I've met so many families who are part of this
club that know none of us want to be a part.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Of but I've met We're doing Jack, We're doing am
We're having an event in August about Pensanyl about, you know,
raising money for ferensonal awareness. And so Brady's already introduced
me to Charlie and his father. Charlie's Charlie passed very
(25:46):
similar to the way that Jack passed and around the
same time, right Bray, Yeah, yeah, So he was.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
A couple of years older than Jack, but similar situation.
And he started this fund called Song for Charlie. But
they are exclusively sentonal education, functional effects, changing the landscape
within the government. He's They're incredible this Ed and Mary
are the parents, and it's you know, I think what's
(26:18):
important to note is that they created Song for Charlie
after their son passed. I didn't create Happy Jack. You know,
Jack created Happy Jack. And this is my son's legacy
that he built. So I am just sort of taking
over the reins for him. But I will not take
credit for ever for my son's work, for you know,
(26:42):
his concept, his drive to help other kids like him
who struggled.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Is it hard bratty because some people might say, Okay,
so there's crossover, right, I don't know there's is their
crossover between mental health, I don't be infentanyl awareness. They're
two separate things, right, it's.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Yes and no, because I look, those who struggle have
a higher propensity to try stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, just.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I make themselves feel better.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
Yeah, but it could be the kid who you know,
goes to any one of these schools and says like,
oh my god, I have a test and I want
to cram, and someone gives them an.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Adderall all right, And that's what I mean, right.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Because adderall is lace. Percocet is lace, xenax is lace,
Cocaine is laced. I mean, you name it now, weed
is lace, the vapes are laced.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
So just so for people who have no idea, and
I also don't know so much of this. How does
something get laced with ventanol?
Speaker 5 (27:45):
So the precursors, which are the chemicals that are made
from thetonyl, are starting in China, and the Chinese are
also the ones who are responsible for creating the pill
press machines, so basically they press the pills to look
like any other pill that you would get from your doctor.
So the chemicals and this is the I'm just giving
(28:05):
you the generic root. Yes, it might come from other means,
but this is what you know sort of the normal.
This is what the path is. So the precursors are made,
they're shipped to Mexico. Mexico has all the cartels and
the labs and so forth, and then they are coming
across the border. The reason why they are using fentanyl
(28:29):
to mix into these pills, or even use fentanyl period
is because it's stronger than anything out there. You do
not need as much of it to make a pill
or to enhance a pill. It's a synthetic, so you
can make it yourself. You're not waiting for like the
you know, plants to grow in the fields in order
(28:51):
to create opium. It just doesn't work that way. So
it truly what it comes down to is greed. They
can manufacture more because it's cheaper, it's stronger, they can
get it onto the streets faster, and the margins are insane.
So their hope is to create addicts.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
How do you get bray I was gonna I've been
thinking about this a long time. It doesn't the only
part that doesn't add up is that it's so lethal,
right that the makers of it, you know, are losing.
They're trying you're trying to create an addict in terms
of right, if you're not trying to, you know, kill
your source, and it seems to be phentanol is so deadly.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, is there an amount that you got in that
doesn't kill you?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
Two milligrams is a lethal dose. And I told you
that it's like like grains of sand if you have
some sort of tolerance. I suppose two milligrams is not
going to do the trick in order to just stop
your life. My son and all of these kids, they're
they're not what you envision to be. Perhaps someone in
(30:02):
the streets, someone in drug rehabs. There kids who may
try something for the first time, that may take a
Mali at a party. You know, they're these are kids
who are you know, athletes and academics and successful. And
it blows away every stereotype that people might have of
(30:24):
those who are passing from fetanol or from drugs period.
So the manufacturers of the product, they don't care if
they have some casualties along the way, They'll just make more.
They just they don't care.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
You think about the fact that these kids are the brains,
especially boys, right, they're not developed until what they're twenty
six years old. Boys' brains. You're sending out your kid
into the world at age eighteen nineteen, and of course
I would have taken something in college.
Speaker 5 (30:58):
You passed me a p we write, Jen, you thought
you were invincible.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
I mean, yeah, one hundred percent. I remember taking what
is that one? Not molly?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Ecstasy? Remember ecstasy?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
That was big when I was in college, and yeah,
everybody was doing I don't even know what it is.
They called it ecstasy then in Texas. But it was
like funny, you know who's at that age? You're not
thinking about shit, You're thinking, no tonight, there is no
rap party.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
So how does a parent talk to their kid to
try to stop this? I mean, telling them not to
ever try anything? Is that realistic?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
What do you do?
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Probably not? I don't think that if I I mean,
of course I taught Jack don't do drugs, right, I
mean my kids smoke weed, which I didn't have an
issue with some parents do, but I was like, yeah,
but it's in MYSS, it's described to you and for
you, you really can't. There's no such thing as recreational drugs anymore.
(32:05):
It just doesn't exist the same way like Jen was saying,
it just doesn't exist. So they have something called fentanyl
test strips. Basically, you have to take the pill and
crush it and dilute it in water, and then you
take it's like a dipstick. You dip, you dip the
stick in and if it comes out like a pregnancy
test two lions, one lion, it's either negative or positive.
(32:29):
There can be false positive false negatives, but they're pretty
accurate fentanyl test strips. You can buy them anywhere. You
can buy them on Amazon. The only my biggest hesitation
lies in the fact that you can take one pill
right jack, and like I could split it in half.
(32:50):
You can take half, and I can take half, and
I don't wake up in the morning, but you do.
It's because the fentanyl is not evenly distributed in the pill.
It might have just been stuck in my half, but
you're fine. So unless you dilute the entire substance, you
will not know truly whether.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
What kind of these what kid is has the wherewithal
to say, I'm gonna go into the bathroom for I mean,
they're dipsticks, like they're like, these kids are not maybe
not all of them. I think that there are, you know,
and we're all we all try with our kids, and
but that's the part that is, so my kids are
they're older now, maybe they're still stupid.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I don't even I don't know.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
But they do give out fentanyl test strips and a
lot of the fraternities and the sororities, so today they're
much more aware, really. And there's also something called narcan
which reverses the effects of an overdose, which is a
spray that you put up each nostril, but you have
to have someone with you. A lot of these kids
who take something are by themselves, so that narkhan doesn't apply.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
And so narcam works for fentanyl. Correct, And how quickly
do you have to you? How quickly does fentanyl take
effect in you?
Speaker 5 (34:03):
It minutes?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Minutes?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Wow?
Speaker 5 (34:07):
How horrifying?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Is there a world? So I don't know too much about.
I know obviously ventinels in the news, But is there
a world in which fentanyl is completely wiped out from
the drug supply.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
I don't think so. I don't see it happening. It's
too easy to make and there's too much money to
be made. I think that's about in line. As long
as there's money to be had, people just don't give
a shit about human life, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Brad I have been close for a while and I
just always I said to you last week, Bra, like
I feel like sometimes I just say the wrong thing,
and of course it's all well intentioned. But we talked
about it about one of your other best friends who's like,
you know, I want to say to you. I wouldn't
say that now, but maybe when it first happened, you know,
time time, time, time. I mean, I don't know if
(34:57):
time is helping or I obviously I follow you and everything,
but I follow you on TikTok, and you're so open
and you have so many experiences every day dealing with
this grief that just doesn't quit, you know, and.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Think for me, And I've said this just recently, like
it feels like it just happened, Like it feels like
it just happened yesterday. I wake up every morning and
I go through like the litany of things that I
did that day or before or Jack's life, and so
I feel like I'm like treading water, standing still. But
(35:33):
everybody else is moving on as they should, because the
world keeps spinning. But it's hard for me as the
kids move further away from my son's passing, and my
friends even move further away from Jack's passing, and I
sort of like still here, and it's equally as hard
for me. You know, I see all of these kids
(35:56):
growing up and my son doesn't get to do that.
And you keep in mind, my son grew up with
Jessee and all these kids, and I watched them, i know,
meeting their significant others and working going out into the world.
And my son was a baby. He was nineteen years old.
(36:16):
I mean, he was almost twenty, but he didn't even
make it to his junior year in college. It's just like,
you know, you just say, like, it's not fair, just
not fair.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
So how do you how do you get through the days?
And have you gotten help for yourself mental health treatment.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
I have a daughter who looked at me shortly after
and said, do not go numb on me. And I
will never forget that, and I have to show up
for her, have to. I will not disappear. I will
(36:54):
do anything to make her life easier, to make her happy,
so that she doesn't, you know, continue to wallow in
her brother's passing. And I'm very sensitive to that. So
you know, people like I could never, I could never.
I don't have a choice, you know, I have a daughter,
(37:15):
and I have a significant other who loves me. I
have amazing friends and amazing parents, and I'm so grateful
for their support. I'm not a big group mental health
person in terms of like sitting in a group that
does not work for me. It just brings me down
to hear about other people's pain. So I'm I do
(37:36):
one on one occasionally, but even that, I just like,
I don't feel like crying for forty five minutes straight,
Like I just don't have it in me. I'm exhausted,
So I sleep a lot. I sleep a lot. Yeah,
an medication.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I mean, I'm not even asking you. I just don't
for myself, like a right. It's like I don't know
if there's enough prosact.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
In the world, of course I don't. Yeah, but it's
like it's like, do you ever you know that feeling
of like when you're present but not really present. Yes,
like you're there physically, but you're not there mentally. That's
what it feels like a lot of the time.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I know you get sometimes just a surprise like letter,
text or whatever from one of his friends. Yeah, I know,
how like that just now that lights you up because
he has an impact on so many of these kids.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Really, you know, it's so consistent what all of these
kids say about him. You know, like Jack told me
what was important in life. He didn't you know, give
a shit about anything else about and you know, it
was just about what he was doing and his happiness
and you know, forget about the nine to five, do
what makes you happy. And they believed in him, and
(38:50):
he believed in them. And you know, one day he
came up into my room and he's like, Mom, I
really think it's helping me to help other people. And
I was like, Jack, that's amazing. It's amazing. But you know,
at the end of the day, I couldn't take that
anxiety away from him. I couldn't take his relentless need
(39:11):
to do more. He's very existential, very introspective. He was
he called like limited drops, one of one. He was
one of one.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
How do you think those parents that you've gotten to know,
is it similar their grief and what five years later?
I mean, I don't know, But I don't know. I
just talked to Charlie or whatever. I'm about to meet
Charlie's dad. But is the pattern there are similar patterns
in terms of how parents.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
I will tell you that every single person grieves differently,
and I passes zero judgment. You know, some people immerse
themselves in work, some people immerse themselves in the cause.
Some people just becomes stagnant and can't leave their heal.
You know, I didn't. I don't think I left my
house for six months. I look. I moved out of
(40:06):
New Jersey to Florida because it hurt me so bad
to see all of these people that I had to
like sort of face what happened. And every time I
saw everyone, They're like, oh my god, what's the matter.
And it just like brings you back. And I every
baseball field, every soccer field, every pizza place he worked at.
(40:26):
It's really painful, incredibly hard. And I go back obviously
because all my friends are there and my daughter lives
with her father primarily, but it's it's hard for me.
It's really hard, and I don't I guess I feel
(40:47):
like sometimes people forget how hard it is.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Yeah, nobody knows how So few people that we know
understand how hard it is. Yeah, we imagine it.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You know, what would you like to see happy Jack
going forward?
Speaker 5 (41:07):
And I would love it to flourish. I would. Jack
launched the site in the first sight, and he was
disappointed because he wanted it to the site to crash
because so many people are on it. You know, I'd
love for it to be self sustaining. I'd love for
me to be able to help kids more than I
already do. I'm happy to speak to anyone and everyone
(41:30):
to let them know that, you know, Jack is you Jack,
You're no different than my son, and this is the
reality of the situation. And you know, I had one
of his friends say to me afterwards, I could have
been any one of us.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It could have and.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Yeah, so what would I like to see happen? Ultimately,
the reason why I speak is because I want to
save lives. I don't I don't want any parent to
who experience this pain. It's horrific, you know, I want
to you know, I'm going to break. I'm exhausted. It's
(42:10):
really exhausting to live with the pain of it. And
I don't wish that upon anyone. So if happy Jack,
and if my son's legacy could prevent a family from
coming down this path, and I'm going to keep launching
(42:31):
product and raising money and creating awareness.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Bray, what do you say to people who ask you
what to say to their kids? And again, I mean,
I know it's about two issues here, right, they're spent
it all and there's mental illness. But you know parents
that are sending their kids to college, and I don't
know if there is anything to completely prevent this from happening.
But is there are there things that you're tell you
that the.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
I mean that it's I will say, And there's there's
different stats on this. So right now, I had heard
from the DEA that it's seven out of ten pills
are at least right or have a lethal amount. So
if you literally say to your child, if someone's giving
(43:23):
you an adderall to stay off and you don't know
where that adderall has been, look at yourself in the
mirror and say, I have a seventy percent chance of
not waking up in the morning, would you take that pill?
I mean, that's the reality of it, even if it's
one and six or what I mean, the statistics are
(43:46):
so high, the probability is so high that it's almost
like you'd have to be really unintelligent not to have
that meaning.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Because they are kids are stupid.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
That's that's my son was one of them. I'm not
gonna lie. Look, my son didn't know any better. But
he lived fearless. He fearlessly, he was He would have
done anything, jump off a cliff, jump, dive into a
pool from a roof. I mean that's how he lived.
I don't think he would have lived any differently, but
I could. I can't guarantee your child's not going to
(44:19):
but I could try. I would also say, you know what,
if your kid's going to school and they're having such
extreme mental health struggles, pull them at a school, Like
not every kid is going to take the same path
in life. Right in our heads we say like, Okay,
they're gonna go to college, they're gonna get a job,
they're going to live in the city, they're gonna But
it doesn't work that way. So I don't know, maybe
(44:43):
I should have pulled Jack at a school when he wasn't.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Your story should have like, I know.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
I know, I can see it.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I'm like, it's like, it's like you're telling the story.
What do you think that?
Speaker 4 (44:54):
Like both my kids, Rachel had a great time just
three years her senior year, she was unhappy. Whatever that
looks like unhappy? My son was unhappy at times in college.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
He for a year.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
This was a bad I mean, I don't know. It's
a hard thing to figure out, right, I mean.
Speaker 5 (45:15):
It just and it's like once you put yourself out
there like I do on TikTok, I have like seventy
thousand followers, so like there are people who are like
who blame me? And I have to I have to
roll with that because if there's going to be people
like that, and I have to tune all of that
(45:36):
noise out in order to you guys know, with social media,
you have to tune all of that noise out.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Locked, de lea, blocked, deleap any Can it be in
something you smoke? Is it only in pill form something
that gets cut?
Speaker 5 (45:49):
I mean lately i've here I'm hearing that it's also
in marijuana. There is. There are so many dispensaries out there,
but they're not all licensed dispensaries. So you really have
to know if a dispensary is licensed or not. Like
I'll even say to my daughter who's almost twenty two, like,
if you're gonna smoke, it has to come from a
licensed dispensary. You have to know. You can't say like, oh,
(46:13):
my friend got it from a friend. They're okay, they know,
like no, yeah, no, Like like I look at mac Miller.
My son idolizes mac Miller. Yeah, you think he's a celebrity.
He has all this money, He would only get clean shit.
He died the same way. It just doesn't work that way.
Fentanyl doesn't care how much money you have, who the
(46:33):
hell you are, if you're a celebrity, if you're not,
it just there's it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
And in this country, do you know how many people
a year are affected by this?
Speaker 5 (46:45):
I mean they say, like a clane full of people
a day.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
What, oh my god? And is the government doing things?
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Are you involved?
Speaker 5 (46:56):
Oh yeah? I mean look at look there are people
who pro truy anti Trump. But at least he's trying, right,
at least he's trying. You, we're gonna put enough tariffs
on China, maybe they'll it'll affect change in the supply
and demand. You're gonna close the borders, maybe it'll prevent
(47:19):
substances from coming through. I do feel like he's trying.
You know, people are like as long as they're that,
you know, supply and demand, As long as there's demand
they'll always be supply. But it doesn't mean that we
can't try.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
You have to try. There's no what else I mean.
Speaker 5 (47:35):
You know, So I I'm okay with Trump for those
reasons alone.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Ray, how's Drew your daughter?
Speaker 5 (47:46):
Sherew's my daughter, She's my reason for being. I love her.
She's my happy place. My daughter and I actually have
been like approached by other kids saying like, how do
I help my parent? And you know, I say to them, like,
you will always, you will forever be your parents' happy place,
(48:09):
like she just will. And I she's doing good.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
She's she's doing I know she's doing good.
Speaker 5 (48:15):
She's got a job, she is a huge personality. She
has also has a lot of friends. I encourage her
to go to therapy again. She's twenty two. She'll do
with it what she will. But I love my kids unconditionally,
and I love the same way Jack did. I love.
(48:36):
When I love, I love, And if she needs me,
I go to her and and I told her no
matter where I am, I will always find her. And
she knows that. She knows that.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
So I'm in all of you. I'm so sorry for
your pain. I can't imagine, but your strength is unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
By the way, guys, I mean all of us. I
think it's helpful just to hear about the mental health thing.
It's so it's not just kids, right, it's us. I mean,
it's me. When I was a kid, it was it
took a different form, but then I didn't get the
help for it that I needed. Back in the day,
when I was in college, i had crazy. It was
(49:26):
more it's all in the same umbrella, but it was
more anxiety than it was depression, debilitating anxiety. And I mean,
I've been through so many different therapists until I you know,
this my current one that I've been with for years
and years. I didn't meet her until I was until
my kids were twelve, and you know, my daughter has
(49:48):
just been diagnosed with diabetes. Anyway, the point is that
like there there are things. There are so many things.
And I'm a big medication fan when it comes to
mental illness.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I mean, and Bray, you and I have spoken about this.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
I mean, you've had your own, you know, dealings before Jack, right,
with mental illness. I mean, it's bitch, but I feel
like there's I used to be very very very aware
of it. I guess, especially when it comes to your kids,
because there are there are answers, right, there's the.
Speaker 5 (50:18):
There's Anne's Look, genetics come into play, right, if you
have mental health illness in your family, there's a higher
chance that it'll you know, trickle down the bloodline. And
you know, I certainly do I think about you know,
my daughter has children. I mean I hope that their
(50:41):
mental health is okay. And I I used to you know, look,
there was such a stigma against kids taking medication back
in the day, and I didn't want my kid to
take medication. Do you remember, like in the sleepway camps,
you're like, oh, well they the kids would be like
they leave to go get a ill or they go
to mind.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
Well, my kids will leave do a good growth hormoney
and insulin.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
They go to them. They're lining up like nobody right,
this stigma is gone, and you know they say, like,
if you were physically ill, you would take medication. So
if you're emotionally not well, and it's not just like
(51:26):
I'm sad, I'm going to take a pill, it's that
underlying sadness that I told you that you can't look.
I remember my mother looking at me and saying like,
what is it? Why are you so unhappy? Like what
did you this? Did do that? And she did what
I did, Like you try and find the thing, because
as a parent, all you want to do is fix
(51:46):
the problem, and you cannot. You can't fix it. I tried,
My mother tried, like but when I went on medication
and found the right medication, I got my life back.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Me too, me too.
Speaker 5 (52:02):
So you know, one hand, I'm saying, don't take medication.
On the other hand, I'm saying, take medication.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Hey, that's prescribed by a doctor that you're picking up
at CVS.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Very different, And I'm going to sit down and have
a talk with my kids because I didn't know any
of this, and I didn't know how prevalent it was,
and that alone could change the trajectory of their lives.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
So thank you for that was our whole I remember,
just yeah, after Jack passed, all of us were like
and our kids wore the same age as Jack, and
we're all like, do you understand not once, not even once?
Can you take a pill? That's never? It is not
that world never.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
So where can people find out more about the charity,
How can they get involved, how can they help it grow.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
So the site my son created is called Happyjackworld dot
com and there's a donation link, you know, right on
the site. But it makes me happy when people buy
his designs and I get to see the kids in
college at parties and all that, like wearing Happy Jack
shirts or Happy Jack has.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
By the way, they're the best. I cannot believe that.
I'm so stupid. I didn't put on my sweats today.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
I have.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Literally, they're my favorite.
Speaker 4 (53:17):
They're not like shitty sweats, like qually heavy, fabulous sweats,
Rachel Wars like lit'sten my hands.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
We did.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
It's just it's not just half webpads. They're amazing. Yeah,
they're so great.
Speaker 5 (53:32):
It's you know. We were donated a pop up store
in South Street Seaport right after my son passed, and
we had all of his artwork and we had this
amazing wall where people would come in and write about
their mental illness and people come in just read the
balls and we sold merchandise and it was like one
of the best things that if I could do that
(53:54):
all over again, I would. I would do it because
I think once people hear the story from me from
a mother and people see my son's face, you know,
like I want I don't want it to just be
a story. I want them to like, look at my son.
He was nineteen years old. You know, he played lacrosse.
He plays it like he Yeah, he's no different, no different.
(54:22):
So I think that it's once you make it as
real as you can for these kids and have it
not like sit down, Like look at his face. Look
at his initial posts on Happy Jack. He started this company,
not me. Go back on Instagram, you know, at a
Happy Jack world and look at his original posts. He'll
(54:42):
tell he was very He'll tell you I have anxiety,
I struggle with depression. I want to be the voice
for kids who have none. That was well him, and
I'm just trying to continue what he started. And that's
why I am as transparent as I am today.
Speaker 4 (55:03):
Okay, I love you madly. Over the Moon Beyond and
you guys were having an event in August, so we'll
both Brady and I both and Jackie obviously I'd love
to be there. Yeah, and a big fundraiser which we'll
talk more about. But I don't even what do you say, Brady,
(55:25):
I just I love you. I'm in awe of you,
your pain is our pain.
Speaker 5 (55:30):
You know, I love you dearly. You know that. I
would just say, even if your kids tell you you're annoying,
keep talking, yeah, keep talking, going to you know, I sent,
I was the mom, I sent the videos, I pharted
all that shit that we you know, we all do, right.
Jack would say like, do you ever send me anything good?
(55:50):
I'm like, but it can happen, And He's like, man,
you worry too much. Well, I know.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
Rachel's like, how many times do you send me a
video of Bret? How do I break out of my
car if it goes underwater? It's how many of those
who would have watched.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
I didn't even think of that, Oh jeez, because they
come up and then you just forward forward for I know,
it's very scary.
Speaker 5 (56:07):
The statistics are a bit higher with a fantastical but yeah,
I mean, anyone could reach out to me. I'm you know,
our email addresses on the site, their resources on the
site as well. We've had a ton of press coverage.
You know. I encourage everyone to speak out and own
(56:30):
who they are and just keep talking.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
Thank you for everything that you do, because you could
have very easily just you know, crawled up in the
ball and and not let anyone see your face. And
you took the complete opposite route and decided to make
Jack's mission your mission. And you probably have saved so
many lives that you don't even know about.
Speaker 5 (56:52):
I hope.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
So yeah, I'm sure you have.
Speaker 5 (56:56):
I hope.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I love you.
Speaker 5 (56:58):
I love you more. Thank you, Brady, Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (57:03):
That was a description of my worst nightmare all of
all mothers. I just I don't know that I can
talk right now.
Speaker 4 (57:14):
I know, well you have to because someone has to
close out the segment.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
But I think, if anything, it will start a very
important conversation in my house that has never been had,
and I would guess a lot of people have never
had with their kids because you're.
Speaker 4 (57:32):
Timing of this is really perfect in terms of like
you're sending your kids off to college soon.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
I feel like that is just such well.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
Also, they go to curious time, and you know, it's
so scary to think that people are so reckless with
other people's lives and to think of the amount of
pain that she has to carry every.
Speaker 4 (57:56):
Day, every day, and it doesn't That's why I said
to her, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (57:59):
Are you? I say, stupid? Ship?
Speaker 4 (58:02):
Is it getting any better. No, it's not getting better.
It's never going to get better. It'll get different, maybe
not better, you know, all.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
Right, you're amazing for that event, and keep me posted,
keep us well posted on the details, and it's so
important and happy Jackie. Guys, So to happy Jack buy
some merchant charity.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
Okay, lovey bye guys, Bye guys,
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Teddi Mellencamp
Tamra Judge
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