Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental wealth podcast
build you from the inside out.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome into Unbreakable Mental Wealth podcast with Jay Glazer.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I'm Jay Glazer and a lot of you guys know
this man as well. Pretty much. Man, anytime you want
to know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
In the NFL, on the spot, on the moment, but
immediately you go to his site. He is the owner
and creator of Pro Football Talk. My good friend Mike Florio,
who man. Mike and I have both come from a
very different background in how we got to covering the NFL,
and we both got murdered for it for years, and
(00:45):
I think that's why you and I have a certain
respect for each other.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome in, Mike, Gloria.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
How you doing, buddy, Door great, door great.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I appreciate you having me and we've always had that connection.
Most people would be surprised by that, and I think
a lot of people in the business aren't even wear
of it. It's not something that we wear on our
chests or anything. But we did get in differently. We
both kind of slipped in through either an unlocked window
or a back door. Well, but the people But the
(01:14):
people who I think I just showed up and slept
on the couch and then they paid no attention to me,
and they realized they had to. But the people who
have the actual journalism training paid their dues, so to speak,
check the boxes, work different beats. They resent anyone who
comes in. I don't take issue with that. It's a
(01:35):
natural response. It just makes our experience different because we
become the target of derision and resentment and just animosity
because we found a way in that was unconventional and
it wasn't easier. That's the thing. There's always this belief, Oh,
you you like it was in some way. No, it
wasn't easier. It's just different.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
You're just different in some respects harder.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Look, I want to kind of compare it here. So
for my journey, I started in ninety three, and I
was the first guy to start relationships when it was
it was not allowed because you were supposedly you're not
objective if you start relationships with players and coaches and
front office. And I'm like, no, I think you guys
are an objective. If a player doesn't talk to you,
you kill them. I think the other way around. And
(02:20):
obviously I did it differently by starting an MMA training
program to.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Train these guys. Then I got chilled for that.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Even though I gave the money to the coaches, the
fighters who were doing it, never took it for myself.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
But where it hurt was, you know, it took me.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I really started in turning in ninety at fan and
worked in ninety one NFL Draft, and I got my
first job covering the Giants in ninety three. It took
me till ninety nine to get my first full time
job because every time I was up for a job,
they go ask the other media guys and they killed me,
so I wouldn't get a job, right.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
So that was a long, long, long journey. So that's
where my resentment kind of comes from. You said it earlier.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I think Well said you kind of slept on the
couch for while, no one notices you until.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
They're forced to notice. You. Tell me about those.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Early days where you were trying to get people to
take you seriously as a force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, And I don't remember much about how I felt
at the time, other than I really enjoyed what I
was doing and I didn't care what anybody else thought.
Because I had found a way to create a platform
out of nothing in one of the smallest states in
the country, just proving the fact that the energy, by
the way, yeah, completely balances the playing field. You don't
(03:36):
have to if there's something else you'd like to do
that allows you to do it via the internet. You
don't have to uproot your life and move to New York,
move to La move to wherever the center of the
universe is for that industry. If you can find a
way to slip in from wherever you are, you can
(04:00):
keep the life you have and work on a life
that maybe you'd want and work really hard because you
got to keep both going, and as one grows, the
other one's still there, and it takes up a lot
of your time and you end up working a.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Lot if you really care about it and like it.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
But I just remember a great feeling of fun and enjoyment,
relaxation in a weird sort of way, because it was
my refuge from my regular job of practicing along fighting
with people all the time, and it just wears it out.
So this is way I could express myself without being
in fights all the time, at least not those kind
(04:37):
of fights. I still got in fights, but I just
had this sense of fascination and anticipation that this was
all leading somewhere, and I had no idea where.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
And that was a great feeling when it came to fruition.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's a great feeling when you have it, but you
don't know that it's going to be right. But man,
when it pays off, it's like I was right all along,
and I had no idea I was right, But I
just had something deep inside me that told me just
keep doing what you're doing, just keep going. I mean,
we went years without making a penny. I'm sure you
went years without making a penny, nine constantly.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I paid to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I had to tell my wife, look, I need a hobby,
and if I golf, it's going to be a lot
more expensive. And I'm gonna be gone for six hours
on Saturday and gone for six hours on Sunday. I'm
gonna be pissed off when I get home. This is
something I can do that It literally costs five hundred
bucks to set up in fifty bucks a month, and
we went multiple years without making a penny. But I
enjoyed it, and I just had this sense, if we
(05:30):
keep doing it.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
If we keep doing it, if we.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Keep doing it, then it's gonna eventually take off and
it'll be the only thing I do and I can
get away from the thing that was causing me a
bunch of stress and would have either put me in
an early grade. I want to hit that, yeah, or
forced me to just get out of it all together
and just do something else.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I want to hit them before though. Look, we're both
disruptors to this business.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Like you said, you went to the University of Michigan,
if you went to Syracuse, you went to afford them,
and you've got a job covering something for you know,
newspaper or TV station or radio show. And that was
not the route that either one of us had. But
we also both I think, and I want people to
hear this. We both never wavered from like we're doing
it different. We're disrupting, and eventually people are going to
(06:17):
see that's the way to do it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And again, it took me my first eleven years.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I was making nine four hundred and fifty bucks a year,
and thank God Almighty in Heaven that my baby sister,
Michael Strahan drove me back into New York City every
day for seven years because I couldn't afford somebody to
bust to Giant Stadium and back every day. And you know,
but back then, I was like, you know what, when
I first walked into the Giant locker room, I'm like, Man,
I can't.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Beat these guys at their own job. I didn't.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I don't have their education, I don't have their experience.
But how the fuck can I be different? Well, if
these fuckers work forty hours a week thirty four, I'm
now working by a lot, not a little a lot,
how about hundred hours a week?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
And I'll do it different, Like I'm gonna start relationships.
And I knew eventually it would fucking pay off. I
didn't care what.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I'll never forget standing on a driving arrangement with Tiki
Barber and I'd gotten turned down by every agent. I
finally got an age at once More gotsfriend. So this
is a ten eleven years in. He says, Hey, we
finally got your full time job. You could excel, he said,
with the fuck, He said, got your full time job
(07:21):
with CBS. They got football back. You're gonna be there,
nfil insider and said, I'll take it. He said, don't
you want how much it's for it, I said, I
don't give a fuck, because it validated when I said
years earlier, I'll be the last motherfucker in this locker room.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Different validated me being different and people are afraid to
be different.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Different is good. Different leads to success. And by the way,
for fifty.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Grand, fifty is a lot more than nine thousand, four
unto and fifty bucks a year.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
What was your kind of and that was my moment?
I sometimes get emotional talking about that.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
What was your moment when you're like, man, I put
in so much work, it costs me so much.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Money, But oh man, this is real. I can exhale.
It's a real thing for me.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, I think it was when Sprint came along, which
is now defunct. It got gobbled up by T Mobile.
But in early two thousand and six there is no
more Sprint. I don't think there's any more Sprint. I
think it's Team Mobile. I kept Sprint as long as
I could. I kept Sprint fifteen years after our partnership ended,
because that's how loyal I am, even though we have
no financial relationship with them. In deference to the fact
(08:27):
that they were the thing that helped me understand that
this was going to become and I still didn't know
when or how. But it was early two thousand and six.
Wait wait, wait, real.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Quick, real quick.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, Prick, I was a Sprint spokesman and one of
the things that I wanted from them was a burner phone.
So the Patriots in the league, because I was convinced
they were tapping phones, wow, especially after Spygate. So I
got a burner phone and it went to some poor
lady in like Nebraska or.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Oklahoma or something. I got a burner phone from them.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
It's part of my deal to be the Sprint just
in case they and people were people were definitely uh,
they had called her. There was They were definitely tapping
the phones or or at least found numbers and were
calling this poor lady.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
But there's there was no way to get back to me.
But go ahead. I've never told that story before. Good.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, yeah, that sounds pretty good. There's a lot there.
Who was it that was calling How do you know
that it was?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
We called the lady. We called the lady.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh my gosh, people call me constantly and yeah, so
people call trying to see.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So wait, who put the number out there that she
would even have it, How would they even know to
call her?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Great point, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Interesting all right, Uh, the late Great Ornie was probably
involved in this at some level because he was involved
in everything. It just made me think, and that was
that's the kind of story you would hear from Mike
Hornstein who passed what eight nine weeks ago. Yeah, anyway,
go back to yours. Stry email comes out of the
blue from Ted Moon Guide Sprint, who was responsible for
(09:56):
doing the ad buying, invited me and my partner at
the time over to meet with him.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
And I didn't think it's a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
They're not They're not gonna do anything. They don't.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Everyone had the meeting.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Nice guy, big Dolphins fan, big Michigan guy. Nice guy.
It's like I remember telling my partner out in the
lot this this, they're not gonna do anything. It's you know,
it's fine. We came over and did it. Maybe it
gets us ready for a meeting someday that leads to something.
But they're not going to do anything. And then like
the next day, they wanted to make a major financial
(10:27):
investment have prominent placement. It created stress because we had
to have a certain amount of traffic every month to
hit so we would get all the money without some
of it being rebated back to them. But that was
the moment that I knew I was going to get
over the wall and escape the penitentiary that is practicing law,
(10:48):
and everybody who practices law, especially in litigation, where it
really can be nasty. Now, some people are just wired
to fight all the time and they love it. Others
don't like the fight, and it's stressful and it's hard,
and they can't to get out if they can find
a way out, and it pisses them off when they
see somebody else escape. But for the most part, I
think the attitude is run while you can because you
(11:10):
got out. And I knew at that moment, I'm going
to get out of this stressful mess that I'm in
at some point. I still didn't know when, but I
knew that that was the moment that I could start
putting even more time because one thing I was learning.
Once we started making a little money, I put more
time into PFT. We make a little more money, we
(11:31):
get a little more traffic. I'm more selective in the
cases I take on, so I spend less time practicing law,
and the Sprint deal was the moment the balance went
this way. It was going you know, slowly, slowly, and
then boom, and it just became a matter of time.
And it was three years before it was done, which
seems like a long time, but it's really like that
that NBC came along. But I knew something was going
(11:52):
to happen. Once we had real money from Sprint, I
could put more time into it. I could put more
sources into it and keep building it towards something that
it that it became so that that was the moment
that it's like shit, this gut feeling I carried around
for five years it finally happened. I waited, I waited,
I waited. I wasn't impatient about it. I just knew
(12:14):
it would happen. I didn't know when, how, where and how.
I'm glad I noticed the email. It was just a
random email that came through them. When I first looked
at it, it's like, you know, what is this a
like is it a phishing thing? What is this? So
it was the moment that everything changed.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So the other thing when I say, you know, be different,
I was very, very very strongly and sternly told by
the other reporters back then you do either you're either
a writer, or you do radio or you do TV.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
We do not mix. And I said, you guys don't
decide how to put food on my table.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Make a fucking nine grand a year, right, And then
the Internet came out and I changed everything. That's man,
all of a sudden, you know, it was me, Len
Pasquarelli and more and a little bit of Clayton. Really
the first minute by minute breaking news guys. And if
we didn't have PFT, people probably wouldn't have known what
(13:08):
we're all breaking and how we were doing it. I
guess the question to you is, and again I took
some shit from it, and I really took some shit
from the older guys because then, like if something you look,
I broke that Joe Gibbs was suddenly hired to be
head coach of the of Washington, right, and there's a
reporter there watching the post. It was all pissed off
(13:28):
because he sent it in, but it was you know,
he had to wait till the next morning for his
newspaper to come out. And I broke into seven o'clock
that night and it was curious claim when he had
it first. I'm like, you didn't have first wee shit
don't come out till the next day. I had it
right then and there right. Tell me about the early
shit you took from guys and how it affected you,
(13:49):
and how you also kind of made a decision and go,
I'm just gonna this is what I think is the
right thing to do, and I'm gonna keep, you know,
being strict to it.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Well, let me put a pin in that, because you
made me remember something that was one of the epiphanies
I had along the way I got started, And I'll
keep this as brief as I can. I got started
because I discovered the website that was called NFL talk
dot com. Reading USA Today at lunch in April of
two thousand, there was an article in their sports section
(14:18):
about this website called NFL talk dot com that everybody
was reading and visiting. It's rumors, it's news, et cetera.
And I never ventured beyond the walls of whatever shit
was on that AOL disc that they would send that
DVD that you'd put in or whatever it was. And
you go to AOL, and I knew you could go
www dot whatever, and I just never did because I
(14:38):
would go onto the AOL site and I'd get NFL news.
You couldn't get that shit in your newspaper. I grew
up a Vikings fan. You never like I would. I
used to wait for Morts inside the huddle once a week,
twice a week, just to get a snit what's going
on in the NFL beyond the local team. So anyway,
and Will McDonough yeah, yeah, So I was there for
a while. They went out of business. This weird, crazy
(15:01):
story of how I ended up working for ESPN dot
com for six months. But while I was working there,
that's when, and they didn't know I was practicing lawful time.
It was like a weird sitcom premise.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I didn't know you worked at ESPN dot com.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I did for six months when I basically did like
a reduced version of what I do now every morning
five am to eight or nine am, and then I
go practice law the rest of the day. But that
was stressful, sleep deprived, et cetera. But what would happen
is Jay, I'd send in what I did, like, I'd
(15:34):
do three four stories, I'd do a link round up.
I'd send it in and it wouldn't show up for
three or four hours because it went through layers and
levels of approval. And it was frustrating because we were
trying to because I had cultivated some sources and we
were trying to break some news. It's like, you know,
like like what happened to the gout at the Washington
Post with the Gibbs story.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Somebody else is gonna have this before we do.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And that's when I realized, there's got to be a
way to do this where you can write the story
and you can get it out there without layers and levels.
And I had this. I still have the contract up
in my office, a one year contract that would have
extended with ESPN from November one of two thousand and
one October thirty one of two thousand and two for
thirty six thousand dollars for a year. And I said,
(16:17):
you know what, I just want to do this my
own way. And that was like, when we have to
listen to that little voice, even though that little voice
may be leading us down a path of frustration.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
And misery and expenses and.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You might just end up at a door you don't like.
But I just knew that if there was a way
to be instantaneous. Write it, post it, eight years before
Twitter showed up. Write it, post it. No one has
to read it, and no one has to reprove it.
There's no delay. Write it, post it. And that's what
That was one of the things that caused me to say,
(16:52):
I'm just gonna do my own thing. Let me go
find a domain name. How about? And I started trying
different names because the site that I'd been with before
was NFL talk dot com. I tried ProFootball talk dot com. Hey,
this domain is available. All right, I got it, and
off we went.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
When was your moment where You're like, all right, I
am now a big boy, I am legitimized.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
People have to read this now.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
People now know I'm here to stay, and I'm not
some fly by night, you know, just a little flash
in the pan.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
There were a lot of little things along the way,
and I had executives that I knew that would say
everybody is reading PFT in the business, and that's been
the case for twenty years. All I have to owners owners.
I had people say, hey, I go to the room
in the owner's meeting and they'll got their laptops open,
they're all reading PFT. And one of the reasons the
league officer it is one of the reasons the League
(17:47):
office isn't very enamored with me is because I put
stuff out there that the owners see and then they
call three forty five Park Avenue and give them shit
for whatever it is that I wrote about, and then
the ship flows downhill, as it always does, and I
up having it come my way. But it's a reminder
that they still read everything I write. But the moment
that I think I knew we really had juice when
(18:08):
Nick Saban got hired by the Dolphins, and what happened
was Nick Saban was being a complete and total pain
in the ass to the people in the building. He
was being a pain in the ass to the reporters,
and the reporters had a bunch of shit that they
knew that they weren't able to use, so they'd give
it to me. I'd polish it up, I'd go with it.
And it was driving Saban nuts. So so you know,
(18:34):
it's the old Michael Clayton line, George Clooney, I'm not
the guy you kill, I'm the guy you buy. Not
that I've sold my soul, but when you get a
phone call from Nick Saban trying to be nice to
you so you'll stop killing him, and the thing ends
up being a sit down, face to face interview that
fucking infuriated every member of the press corps covering the
(18:55):
Dolphins that this guy got an exclusive. I dropped to
Pittsburgh they had a three season game there two thousandand
and five, and that that was the time. It's like,
you know, yeah, we are onto something here. This is
something that you know, we finagled this. It's the hottest
big name coming from college football to the NFL his
(19:15):
first preseason. That was a big deal. And that was
something that told me that you know, it's working. You're
still not making much money, but it's working. Just keep going.
And frankly, the fact that the guy from Sprint was
a Dolphins fan. Shit, I mean it's been eighteen years
and I've never made this connection. That probably had something
to do with him deciding let's put some Sprint money
in this place. Because this guy managed to get a
sit down interview, face to face with Nick Saban of
(19:37):
all people.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Wow, tell you know you talk before you started an attorney,
So what made you all of a sudden say you know,
I want to decide I'll be covering the NFL, of
all things, thinking you could do it, like there's a
million jobs out there.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Why this.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I've been a fan of the NFL since December twenty three,
nineteen seventy two. In the Amats.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
By the way, what law were you practicing?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I did several differ different things in the eighteen years
I practiced. I was an environmental litigator early with a
major firm in Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh, jones Day Reversent Poke.
I don't know if they still go by that name.
They probably do. Maybe it's just jones Day. Now they're massive,
They're all over the world. It was tough, it was rough,
it was challenging, and I learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
A lot of environmental attorney.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I did that for a while. I was like, you know,
learning the ropes. I was and it was getting me
real experience. See, at these big firms, what happens is
they pay a lot of money and they send you
to the library or they send you to the warehouse,
and you got to review documents. It's a bunch of
grunt work and you develop no skills. I stumbled into
a situation where I was able to go and attend
shit and like go to depositions and learn how to
(20:39):
ask questions and understand how the sausage was made. So
I did that for a few years. Moved down here
to West Virginia. My wife is from here, worked for
a firm here and got into labor and employment work
from the employer side. And I never really liked it
because you didn't get to choose your case. The firm
(21:02):
has a bunch of clients and when they get sued,
they call us up, we need your help. Well, I
read the complaint. I don't like this case. I don't
want to handle this case. Tough shit, and you got
to handle the case because you got a mortgage to pay.
And so I had always had this nagging feeling I
wanted to do it on my own, and March one
of two thousand, I started my own thing. And at
(21:25):
that point I was representing individuals who had been fired
because I learned the playbook working at the firm that
represents the companies who do the firing and having to
try to make chicken salad out of their chicken shit
business decisions. Now I knew how to get inside improve
when they because Those are the hardest cases. Those are
(21:46):
the hardest cases to prove because nobody ever admits to anything.
You have to show they're full of shit through circumstantial evidence,
aggressive questioning, common sense.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Because they never.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Get up there and say, yeah, I fired that guy
because he's black, or yet we let that person go
because she's over.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
The age of fifty. They're never going to admit it.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
They're never so fascinating. This is faun I'm knowing you
for a long time. This is fast. I would thought
you were just the ugly guy in NBC. This is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Now that's Chris Simms. But I tell you Jay's and
what would happen is because I would bust my ass.
Like there was one specific large retailer that I won't
mention because I think they've sponsored PFT Live in the past,
but I would go after them all the time because
I knew they weren't doing things the way they should.
They didn't have the apparatus in place to properly comply
(22:34):
with the law, and they were running people off that
were costing them too much money or whatever the thing retaliating.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Doing just bad business practices.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
But I'd go after them and it was just me
by myself with my legal assistant, and I'd go after
them and they put like four freaking lawyers on a
case and it would be a constant fight, and I'd
have like twenty of those cases going on at any
one time. So it was a hell of a fight.
And it's so hard to prove because you know, the
lie isn't concocted on the witness stand. It becomes an
institutional lie. When they fire the person. They have a
(23:03):
story and they just stick to it. So by the
time you're committing perjury on the stand, you're well past
the moral exercise.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
That you have to go through to tell a big lie.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
The big lie is already part of your paycheck that
you've been getting for months before the case comes to trial.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
So that was a tough, tough life.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And anyway, once I started my own farm, I had
time I and I'm trying to be as succinct as
I can. I found that NFL talk dot com website.
I got hooked on it, and in June of two thousand,
they put out a call for writers. So I threw
something together and sent it in and they hired me
(23:42):
for the salary. Envy inducing brag to your parents, show
it off to all the people out there that you
want to make jealous. Zero dollars and zero cents. So
that was it, and that was how I got into it.
And then once you got into it, and I enjoyed it,
and I've always loved the NFL, and I kept going
and I kept going, and I kept going. But you know,
I'd be spending a certain amount of time paying attention
(24:04):
to this shit anyway, and I probably would have found
a way into this business one way or the other
because I was so passionate about following the NFL and
enjoying the NFL throughout football season and beyond, because it
cooked up this industry that carried everyone through the off
season with free agency and the salary cap became a
twelve month year thing. So that's how it all happened.
But I had the time to do it because I
(24:25):
was early in my practice on my own, I didn't
have a whole lot of work to keep me occupied.
I could start down that path. Man twenty four years ago,
It's unreal.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
What's the coolest?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I always try and to I'll say to how we
long shit all the time, Like like we've done things
like like we hosted the Emmys once the pre show
and we did the We're on the red carpet. It
was like we're less stop and then we threw it
inside to the hosts of the Emmys, like.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Oh what happened to the plane crash with the real
TV people on it?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
So there we are, I say to how I said, Hey, man,
I know we're supposed to act like we've been there before,
but fuck that I haven't. The shit is cool, like
a fucking kid me, are we getting ducked to the
TV Hall of Fame?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
And man, that's the first time I've ever gotten award
without having to beat the shit out of somebody fo
to get my ass kicked, Like this shit is cool
And I always try and remember that every day.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
What's kind of like your moment of like oh my god,
like that, God, mom, how did I get here?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, see, you're gonna fucking make me emotional at some point.
I'm gonna fight it as best I can. But don't no,
but I mean I don't. I'm not in the mood
for it today. I'm too tired. I'm too tired. Have
to dry my face. But uh, Super Bowl forty nine Arizona. Now, look,
both my parents died before I ever stumbled into this business.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I got you, homie.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Anyway, if flake gated happened, the shit hit the fan,
biggest story in the world. Tom Brady with that goofy
ass press conference, Are you a cheater? I don't think
I am. Remember all that and Bill Belichick talking about
Mona Lisa vie to from my cousin Vinnie.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
I mean, that was the biggest shit around.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
So here I am standing outside the referees locker room
at Super Bowl forty nine because the referees locker room
was where the balls came from for deflate dates. So
that was the spot where I was going to be
doing my report, and I downloaded all the shit that
I was able to get, and I can't remember any
of the specifics, but I remember getting ready to go
(26:24):
on air and that was the moment. And fuck you
for doing that to me.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
That's pretty fucking cool, dude, That's really cool, right. That's like, man,
we signed up to cover sports.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
It's escape, isn't There's nothing else, but it gives us
moments like these, man, and it gives us brotherhoods and
bombs like these.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
It's fucking awesome.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Like, who would have thought when you and I were
getting our asses chipped all those years ago by every
one of our peers, then we'd be up here and
can have vulnerable ass moments like this. That just brings
us to a different level football. It brings us to.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Something else and for me, fucking cool man, I'm proud
of you.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Also tied up in that moment was a shift from
I don't belong here to fucking I'm here, and it
kind of changed my outlook from that point forward. Instead
of feeling like they're going to figure me out, I'm
a fraud. I don't belong here.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
You kind of morphed into a different character at that point.
And maybe it was the strength of my parents because
I was thinking about them in that moment, But anyway,
that was it. I love that asshole.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
I love that. Hey.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Look, you know, people don't know the Mike and I
have a real, a true vulnerable relationship.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
We've into each other some shit over the years.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That that's what's great about football, man, You get these
bonds that that I don't think fortune five hundred companies have,
you know, I think it's different. I think football is
different than every other I think the bonds and football
are different. Look, you know our relationship with these coaches
and Rosie's seeing it now.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
There's no other job where your job is on the
line every single day.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And then your kids read about it every freaking week,
you know, and your wife doesn't know if she's moving
every freaking week. So you get really, really really close.
You know, you may fuck up if you're the head
of sprint and nobody's reading about it every week.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Your kids aren't reading about it. It's fucking different. There's
a different human side of football.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Then, oh, you're right, you're right. Think of it. How
many jobs out there have wins and losses attached to
what you do? You have a final exam every week
with every men or a loss, and that's all that matters.
None of the other stuff matters. How it happened, what
the weather was.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, all your all your kids, your kids and their
friends read about it and.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Agree weeks like you get like the bozo up in
Detroit who's in high school who docs Dan Campbell. So
the family's got to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like it's it's unbelievable. There was
there was a there's a coach last.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Year, stupid kid being stupid kid.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
But that's part of the territory that you wrote, and
it's what they sign up for. They know it. But
still that doesn't mean it makes.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It for this shit though.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Like there's a wife last year, somebody death threats to
her and her husband, and husband's like, go tell up,
let's tell her security.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
In the FEDS that they did, and they raid the
guy's house. It was like some fifty year guy who
live with his mom, like, what are we doing here?
It's just different.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But as a result, all these relationships, Mike, like, including
yours of mine, right, we're all I do feel like
we're all part of the same team I talk about
for my mental health, I need a team. And that's
one of the things I used to get upset about
when people say, oh, glazers not objective.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
He's friends with these guys.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, I'm friends with these guys because I need it
and they just never knew I needed it for between
my ears, I needed it.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
So I want to throw myself off a bridge. You know.
I need this. I need these these bonds.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
This team, team, team, team is everything. I still fight
because I need a team. I'm fifty four, get my
ass Kip wrest some fucking Max Crosby and third and James.
I have no business, but I need that team. I
still spart Randy Coutour. I need these teams. Football has
been the biggest life saving.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Team for me. I need it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
And we're all part of it, whether you're media or
on a coach or a player, or a producer or
a ball but whatever it is, we're all part of it.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I think we're all in it together. We've all gotten
our dreams have come true more than we ever dreamed
they could have.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
And let me tell you, I've got a twist on that.
And I do things differently than you do. You've got
your platform on Fox and you bring it and you
do it on Sundays and you break news the rest
of the time. But that's your big moment every Sunday morning, afternoon,
whatever it is, it's morning.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
A different than everything else.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yep, right. And as you told me years ago, the
only true journalism in this space is finding out stuff
that we're not supposed to know, like your stuff from
Mercedes Lewis. I don't know how the hell you got
him on the record to tell you that he and
Cole Commet and Caleb Williams.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
I trained the motherfucker for seven years, right, so he
trusts you with it.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
He trusts you with it.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That were trade of Brandon Ayuk to the Steelers, right right?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
No one knows.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Nobody knows that.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
And I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I mean, you know, the people who are in the
news breaking business get mad me when I say this business.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I love when you say let's go ahead.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
But what value is there in a tweet five minutes
before the team announces the move anyway?
Speaker 4 (31:30):
And people get so impressed with that.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
It's like, look, the guy's got a mechanism in place,
he's done a quid pro quo with the team, and
so and here's the moment. And I can't name the
general manager, even though it wasn't off the record. I
don't want to burn the guy. But six seven years ago,
there was some story that I kept harping on that
I kept pointing at, and I kept writing about it,
(31:54):
and I kept needling the team about this situation that
it emerged. The GM calls me up and he says, hey,
can you stop with that thing you keep writing about.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
If you do, I'll give you.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Our next big story. And I said, whoa, whoa, thank
you for confirming everything I believe about.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
How this business gets done.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
No thank you, No thank you because you ask nicely
and because I'm kind of getting bored with the story anyway,
I'll leave it alone.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I don't want anything in return.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
And you know you talk about having friends in the
business for me because I criticize and I say what
needs to be said, and I'll always be that way
no matter what relationships I have. I can only be
friends with people who can take it right. And I
have people I appreciate that and they take it. When
I have to do it, they take it. And those
(32:55):
are the people you can Those are the people who
aren't using you. When you're in a position like I am,
we're gonna shine a light where a light needs to
be shown. The ones who can take it are the
ones you can be friends with the ones who can't.
And I can give you the name of an owner, owner,
a prominent team in the NFC.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
You just hear from them all the time. Talk to
him all the time, reported the story.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
He didn't like. I've heard from him once in eleven years,
and it was when he wanted to call me up
and mother fucked me for fifteen minutes about some stupid
little thing that showed up on PFT. That's it. Yep,
you're not my friend. If you can't take it when
I need to do my job, then why are you
my Why?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
How can you even begin to want to be.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
My friend If you don't understand how I do the job.
You're just trying to manipulate.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
So I would tell my guys to like, I've written
stories on my friends who've gotten popped for steroids, and
I was like, hey, guys, you'd rather have me do
it to someone else? And they're like, you know what,
we appreciate it, glazier excess. I'm not gonna take shots
to you. I'm just gonna write the facts.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, I'm not gonna throw my peg.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I'm gonna write the facts for who would you rather have? Yeah,
you write glaze. It's gonna suck. It sucks, it comes out,
but it's gonna come out anyway. Might as well have
come out through you, right instead of No, don't put
that out. You're my friend, No brag, I got you.
I have to you know, those are those situations, Hey,
tell me about your your book that you just came out.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Well, I've got and this is twenty four years later.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
This feels like where I was when I started PFT,
where I've found something that is my it's my balance
from what I do all day long. And think about
the way I've run PFT over the years. You've been
coming to the site for a long time, probably since
the beginning or close to it. I did the math
(34:41):
at one point last year, and I have to adjust
it because another year has gone by. I've probably written
since November one of two thousand and one. Forgetting about
the stuff I did before I started PFT. Just from
then forward, twenty two to twenty three million works, okay,
And it happens in the course of every day. I
(35:02):
write stuff Today, people read it or they don't. By tomorrow,
you know what it's worth. It ain't worth shit. You
got to do it again, and then by the next
day you got to do it again. And everything you've written,
no matter how good it is, gets forgotten because all
that matters is what you've written today.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
So during the pandemic, when we were all isolated.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
And the world was different and there was so much
stuff to worry about, how many people are gonna die,
You're gonna keep your family safe. What happens if your
father in law, your mother in law get it. What
happens if your family member with diabetes gets it? Like
life was crazy, football kept going. But once we got
through the draft, I wasn't as busy. We weren't having
(35:42):
people over. And that's when I just decided, you know what,
I had a weird dream one night, and when I
woke up the next day, It's like, Hey, that would
be a decent story. I'm just gonna sit down and
start writing. And I realized early on that, man, it's
powerful to write.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
It's something that isn't irrelevant tomorrow. Now.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
It may not be about all that relevant when you
write it because it's just fiction. It's made up, but
it doesn't completely lose all of its value in a day.
And I've learned over the years I can write really fast.
I never have writer's block. When I steal an hour
to work on a book, I can crank out two
(36:24):
thousand to twenty five hundred words in an hour, and
then I'll know I'll rewrite and edit and clean it
all up. But when the words flow, they flow. So
what happened was I had to deal with his shit
to do Playmakers, which wasn't a novel. It was like
one hundred plus essays of just all the shit I've
learned over the last twenty years in the NFL, and
that wasn't as much fun because it was the same
(36:45):
as what I do every day. But man, I tapped
into this capacity that I didn't know I had, that
I wouldn't have had if I hadn't been doing PFT
all these years, to crank out a lot of content.
And even though I've written and it's quality content, I
think that's the thing people are having a hard time accepting,
because you get known for one thing and that's all
(37:06):
you're ever known for, and that's all you can do.
It's like the skills that brought me here are somewhat transferable,
the things that I figured out how to do, how
to communicate, how to communicate in a compelling way, how
to observe and translate the things that we see into
words that can connote those emotions and thoughts and ideas.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
So anyway, long story bearable.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
The first one was father of mine, and this is
inspired by true events in the town I grow up
in because my dad was a bookie tied to the
mob there. So I know a lot of things that
I saw when I was a kid. I was nine
ten years old when I first kind of figured out
what was going on. Kept my eyes open, my ears open,
and my mouth shut. And none of what happened in
(37:50):
here is true. There's some things that they actually did
that I became aware of later that inspire some of
the crimes that are committed. So that was the first
one that one's been out for about a year and
a half and it's actually still doing pretty well. Got
a great review from Kirkus, which is like the like
the industry leader in giving tough reviews and calling something
(38:11):
shit when it's shit. They very much like this. The
sequel out recently, Son of Mine, picks up exactly where
Father of Mine left off, or it's a standalone. You
don't need to read Father of Mine. It'll spoil Father
of Mine on page one. But it's a very compelling
story in its own right. And then since we're on
the topic for the holiday season, which is launching November one,
(38:34):
this may be the best thing. I hope this isn't
the best thing I ever write, because I hope I
have something else send me. I'm gonna get your reflection
in the book. But on Our Way Home is a
and Jay, I.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Mine is not a rob yet, you fuck, but that
is not a rob yet? You know it's something called FedEx.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Well that's all right. I'm too cheap for it. When
you send books. One thing you can do is you
can send it media mail, which makes it really cheap
to send books. And I'm really cheap. So it'll show
up by Christmas that you father of mine, I need
to send you On our Way Home.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
It is a holiday ghost story that I think you
will love if you can ever muster the discipline to
sit down and read, which I don't think you can
do this.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Thanks it is but but but you know.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
What I try now, I can read it.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Listen, I do. I'm the same way. One of the
things one of the reasons I don't like reading, Jay,
I don't want to sit there and just like God,
is this chapter ever going to end?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
So I just write short chapters.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Like when I got into PFT, I decided to create
the destination there where I would want to spend my time.
When I started writing books, I decided to write books
I would want to read. If you're going to provide
any service, you're the ultimate customer of yourself. Give people
something you would want, and unless your tastes are completely
(39:55):
fucked up, you're onto something if you fashion what you
provide based on what you would want.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
I don't want long chapters. I don't want.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Books that go into all this nuance about what the
room looked like and how many rocks were across, you know,
and all this dumb shit that doesn't advance the story.
Let's get to it. We're in an impatient society, and
I always tell people just give it a try. If
you lose interest, it's my fall. All I wanting to
do is start, Just start Jay, when father of mine
(40:24):
shows up, just start. If you lose interest, I've failed
as to you, succeeded as to others, but I've failed
as to you. It's on me to make sure everybody
finds it accessible, enjoyable, and just keeps flipping page after
page after page. And there's a great feeling getting caught
up in a good book. I love having that. I
love having and I've read a lot on my phone.
I love having that to look forward to when I
have a quiet moment. You know, at night, or if
(40:47):
I'm standing in the line at the grocery store or
waiting to get on a plane. You look forward today.
Give you something in life.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
You know, we all need things to.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Look forward to to carry us through our existence. It's
part of the mental health balance. We look for little
things to look forward to. We have big things to
look forward to. We need little things to look forward to.
When am I going to get a few minutes to
get back and read that book? When am I going
to get a few minutes to watch that show I
really like? And that's how I justify our role in
all of this, whether it's through.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Football, fiction or whatever. We give people the.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Little things they can look forward to in life that
balance out the shit that we all have to deal with.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Promise you, when that book finally arrives in twenty twenty six,
I will read it.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Okay, good Now, Before me, I do have to say,
I will send you on our way home, though, because I.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Think it's perfect holiday seasons.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Coming up, and I think you'll like it.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
I appreciate you, man, You are the best dude. Hey,
you know, I know this about told you that I'm
proud of you. Man, Like starting something out of nothing
and just knowing.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Hey, I'm going to commit to this because I know
I got something.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Takes a lot of courage because most people they just
want to be a face in the crowd. I always
tell people be the crowd, be your own damn crowd.
I'm proud of you for starting your own damn crowd
and U man, it's been great and prod to call
you brother.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Well. I appreciate it, and you've been a great part
of what we've managed to accomplish over the last twenty
three years. There aren't many other names that would join
the list of people who have actually been truly friends
and truly out for my best interests, not out for
how can I make this guy help me with my
own best interest. You're one of one in that regard
and I always appreciate you for that.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Thank you, brother, Mike Florio PFG, love you body.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Thank you, buddy.