November 15, 2023 • 31 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today’s episode, Jay is joined by the incredibly brave and resilient Shoshana Johnson, the first ever African American female POW from the US Military and the actual marine who pulled her out of the place Saddam’s guards were keeping her, the amazingly courageous Curney Russell. Twenty years later, Johnson and Russell have been reunited for an exclusive, two-part conversation. It’s just the second time they have seen each other since her rescue in 2003.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome in too, Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
I'm Jay Glazier, and today is a special show.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Sorry Veterans Day week show.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You all know how invested I am into the military
and our veterans, and today is the best guests I've
ever had, Coolest guests I've ever had, most amazing story
I have ever heard in my life. And I do
have to get a little housekeeping out of the way
here first. If you're like many people, you will be
surprised to learn that one in five adults in this
country experienced mental illness last year. Get far too many
(00:46):
fail to receive the support they need. Carolin, Behavioral health
is doing something about it. They understand that behavioral health
is a key part of whole health, delivering compassionate care
that treats physical, mental, emotional, and social needs and tandem
Carol and behavioral Health raising the quality of life through
empathy and action. All right, Welcome in again to Unbreakable,
mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Special Veterans Day Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I never get guest starstruck or words are hard to
come by in the last I don't know, thirty years
of doing this and the career I've in except for
one time in my life. That's the other time I've
met these two people and don't know what I'm going
to do in justice introducing them. But folks, you want
to be on this journey with us because it's the
(01:31):
most incredible story of love, first, perseverance, courage, and so
many other adjectives that you all will come up with
along this journey.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm so grateful they're here with me. Let me lay
this out correctly.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Here.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
There's two guests, and we've never done this before.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
All right, Sushana Johnson, who's the first African American female
POW that America's ever had, and the marine that rescued
her in Iraq.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Kurnie Russell. Welcome both to Unbreakable. Were you kept secure
in the same place that you were being held there?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
No another it was a schoolhouse or something like that.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Yeah, we had h there was another platoon that was
tasked with like finding that area. And uh so once
we once we got them, you know, we once we
once we got them everybody secure, got them out to
the vehicles, and vehicles came up. We loaded them up
onto the LAVs that we were we were riding on,
and we just I remember it was like those things
go quick, like to my knowledge, there's still like one
(02:31):
of the fastest ground moving like vehicles in war, you know,
or you know, in combat theaters. So we loaded them
up and just haul das out of there, you know,
we had it was like, let's get them as far
away from that place as possible. To remember, everybody's on rooftops,
people are coming out. So I remember, we just got
them out of there and we brought them back to
a to an area that was already secured, and uh,
(02:53):
but it was still in the city. You know. It's
not like it's secure and there's fences around and things
like that. It's still kind of it's in the city.
And I remember, like we're told like, hey, like pretty
much form a human wall around them, you know, like
make them safe, make let them know we're protected. Remember
they don't have weapons to protect themselves at this point,
like we are their protections. So yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
How long did you have to do that for?
Speaker 5 (03:15):
You know, I can't remember like a time wise how
long it was. It seemed like a little while because
like like Shoshana was saying, like this call said to
be made, like hey, we got them, now send helicopters
so we can bring them back to kuwait, you know.
And so we went on the helicopters and uh, you
know kind of how small the world is is our
(03:35):
friend Elliott, he had got meta backed a few nights prior,
you know, he had had his night injury and you know,
things like that. So him and I had you know,
we went to schooling together. We were just as like
all the new guys, you stick together, right, So we
were like we were new together. And I remember hearing
that he had got hurt and nobody knew what was
going on. I didn't know if he was alive, if
(03:57):
he was dead. So when the helicopter came that there
was two helicopters, the one that we loaded up on.
I remember talking to like the crew chief in the
back and he was like, hey, you know, we were
just we just flew a metavac for you guys the
other night. I was like, hey, that's my friend Elliott.
He's like yeah. I was like, is he okay? Is
he alive. He's like, oh yeah, he's alive. He's gonna
make it. So that was when I found out that
Elliott was still alive. Was that flight back towards I
(04:20):
think we went into where that picture was taken behind her.
I want to say they were calling it like three
Rivers Air Base or something like that. But that ride there,
that's how I found out that Elliott was still alive.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Wow, the amazing Eliot RUI is how I met you.
Two incredible people. So pretty what point did you realize,
oh my god, we just saved American pews.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
I don't think it really hit me until we were
down in Kuwait. You know, it was you know, mentally,
it was like kind of we're going out. It's like
we're working. You know, you're going out, you're working, you know.
And then then it really hit me until we were
down in Kuwait and I was like, whoa, like you know,
and if you know, I remember telling I don't know
if Shashaana remembers, but we had heard somebody had asked
(05:03):
about Jessica Jesse, like hey, where's Jessica or something like that.
I remember Jessica Lynch Yeah, and I remember telling them like,
oh they rescued her, like I think it was a
few days prior, a week or so prior, and I
remember they started hugging and crying. They're like, Jessica's alive.
Jessica's alive. And I was asked about somebody else and
I didn't know, and I was like, I don't know,
I forget, I can't remember who. I just remember hearing Jessica,
(05:27):
and they asked another name, and I didn't hear anything
about that other person, so I imagine that they didn't make it.
So I didn't say anything. I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
At what point did you realize, man, like give yourself
almost disgrace of like, oh my god, we just did.
If you're going to sign up for the military, right,
and yeah, you're gonna do the greatest that you could do.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
This is it?
Speaker 5 (05:48):
And you yeah, you know that didn't hit me until,
like I said, so, you know, Shashawana had mentioned that
she had I think you mentioned you had a niece
that you may not have met if the rescue didn't
go down. So my girlfriend at the time, my wife
now been married twenty years, but she was pregnant with
our first daughter. And I remember like on the ship
(06:08):
ride going over, you get mail, you know, and one
of the last you know, I didn't know if I
was having a boy or a girl. We were still
trying to talking about names through mail and that takes forever.
So I remember going back, like when we got to Kuwait,
I was able to use the phone. We're in, like
we brought to this hospital, Shshana and I. We went
to a little medical fields off site first before we
went to the bigger hospital, but you know, I got
(06:31):
to use a phone, and the first phone call I
made was to my girlfriend. Finally I was like, Hey,
we having a boy or a girl? And she's like,
we're having a girl. And I was like okay, you know,
and I was like kind of relieve, like okay, now
when I go back and something happens, at least I
know that I was having you know, I had a daughter.
But then I remember she was like, hey, you know,
asking me questions and I'm like, I don't know, like
(06:52):
you may hear some stuff on TV, you know, like
that was that was us. It's all we can really
say right now. And I think that's when it really
clicked me, like whoa, Like that's like she's gonna be
hearing about that on TV. I'm having a girl. Oh yeah,
I'm having a girl.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know, she's talking to a hero. That's unbelievable. Go
ahead for trying.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
I'm sorry, I would say, and not to know that
she would probably see this the next day.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Yeah, yeah, exactly her. Yeah my mom.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, that picture of you rescuing her the next day,
that got circular here in the States the next day.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
It was probably not too long after. Oh my god,
yeah that picture was it?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Yeah, because that picture was taken at three Rivers Air Base.
I think they were calling it three Rivers Air Base
and U yeah, we were loaded up onto a seat
getting ready to load up on the sea one thirty
that flew us down, Yes, yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
The reporters were all in my face.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
They were all in yeah. So that picture, yeah, I pushed,
I pushed somebody back, and I honestly that's probably how
they snapped it. So it looks like, yes, you know,
a live action shot of like the fresh rescue, but
that it had been a few hours so when you got.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You guys, okay, how long are you all together for?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And also I think the thing that kind of struck
me the most two last time I talked to you too,
as we think, okay, you rescue someone and you guys
all fly back to the States and that's it. But
that wasn't the case, like you, you went back and
continue to serve Cardie.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Right.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
Yeah, So we we knew how we were getting, like
Castro and I. We knew how we were getting, but
we really didn't know how we were getting down to Quay.
We were just told, hey, don't turn them over to
anybody except I think it was like a kernel or above,
and you just don't see colonels walking around everywhere like
oh six is you know, officers. I'll see a lance
corporal or a sergeant or you know, or like a
(08:38):
lower level you know, E three or something like that.
You see them, they're everywhere, but like an O six,
a kernel or above is like where the hell are
we going to find a kernel or above?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
You know?
Speaker 5 (08:48):
And luckily the hospital we went to I think was
ran by a colonel because I remember they're like, hey,
you know, okay, so we'll take up from here, and
I'm like, We're like, no, they're not leaving our site
until there's a kernel here that's going to take them,
like take possession pretty much and you know, responsibility, and
they're like, we can find one, you know, we can
get one in the hospital. Like Colonel comes out. I
think it's an army colonel. He's like, I think I
(09:10):
can take them, Like all right, go ahead. You know.
That was when we that was no, that was when
we went to take a shower and clean up.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You know.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I remember it was like, you know, we had live
grenades and all that stuff, and they didn't want that
in the hospital anywhere. And we're like, we're not giving
these up. You know. They remember, they're like these can't
come in the room, and we're like, well they're not
going to go in the room without us, and we
need like our kid, like that's our that's all we knew.
You know, that's our safety. Bo. We're not giving it up.
And there was a little back and forth. They let
(09:41):
us like escort them around places with you know, with
our you know guns and ammo and you know grenades,
and then finally somebody was like, hey, look we have
a safe room. You guys can keep these if you
want to take a shower. So yeah, we saw each
other after that, just prior to when Castro and I
eventually found our way back up north. We basically hitchhiked
(10:01):
our way back into Iraq. That sounds weird. Yeah, so
we uh, we wanted to get back up with our unit.
You know, we wanted to We wanted to continue on.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Back up, back up, hold on. Do you know this part?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
No, I didn't know how they got back up there.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
I had, but I remember the part about them having
all their AMMO and stuff like that, and they were like, oh,
you can't bring that this part.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And I remember the rest of us were like, well,
we're not going. We're going with them, and they were like,
but no, they can't come. And I said, well, y'all,
I remember we're thinking, well, what are y'all gonna do?
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Because we moved with them, They're not going without the stuff.
I mean, there was even a part where they were
like moving me and I was like, okay, but where's
my marine.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I don't know where he was. I don't know what
he went to do. And I was like, but where's
my marine? I can't go. I mean, because at that
point that was my security.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
I knew I was gonna be okay because they were
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
So it took a while, you know, even to for
them to eat me and say you're gonna be okay,
we got you, we got you. I was like looking
around constantly.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Where's there a proper goodbye from you too?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Not really? No, yeah, I think I think the following morning.
I think following morning we would like check the make
sure they were all right, and then Castro and I
pretty much hit hiped our way back up.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Yeah, And that was it.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So you didn't there's no goodbye, no nothing, did you?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh my god, that's like this and how much longer
did you end up fighting over there in Iraq before
you end up coming home?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
So when we left the hospital, I say we hitchhiped
our way back. It sounds weird, but that's literally how
it was. There was no plan for us to get
back up to our unit. So we went out and
we saw like a convoy and like, hey, you guys
going to Iraq. And because we were in you know,
we were in Kuwait, we're like, hey, you guys going north.
You guys are going to Iraq. And they're like, well
we're going here, which they were going into Iraq. So
(11:51):
we're like, all right, we'll ride with you guys. You know,
you guys have brooms. So we rode with a some
army unit. Then we got up to I forget, you know,
into Iraq where we were.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Then we were.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Kind of like hanging around and like, hey, are you
guys going north? Like that was a question, are you
guys going north? And they're like yeah, like you guys
have room for two, like yep, So we hopped in
we just can We kept doing that. We got into
bag Dad. It took us a little while. You know,
we got up into Bagdad and uh, I remember we
went to some you know, big like command operations center
(12:23):
that had been established, and you know, we're just walking
around there like you know, going in like hey, like
where's where's Third La R you know, Delta Company, And
they're like, oh, they're over here, and they're like, oh hey,
look this is who we are. We're trying to get
to them and they're like okay, Like there's a convoy
that's leaving at this time. So we just kept convoy
hopping until we eventually got up to where they were
(12:44):
and walked back up and you guys in your unity
are like, what the hell are you guys doing here? Like, oh,
we're back you know.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
How long did you stay? Like again, how long were
you still in?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
So we left when?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Yeah, so we left when you know what once once
you know, it was declared that you know, major combat
operations were over and units were starting to retrograde back
down to Kuwait. So we were there. Let me see
what was it? I think maybe we got back to
the States in June.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Correct, we're still talking a few months you're still over.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
There, so yeah, are you does anybody tell you what's
happened in the Shoshana? Is there any way for you
to still be in touch or is that it like
you rescue Shoshana and these people and that's it last
you guys have any contact?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Which is y? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
That was you mind you like, there was you know,
this was one of years ago. You know there was
you know, social media and all that wasn't as big
as it is now and I didn't think it exists back then,
and uh yeah, you know, yeah it was. You know,
we got back and it was business as usual for us.
You know, I want to say a few weeks later,
a month or so later, I was I don't know
(13:49):
if you're if you've ever seen the movie Apocalypse now
or no, the Charlie Sheen platoon where he's sturring the ship,
you know, burning the ship. That that was me, you know.
Shortly after that back to the back doing the low
man on the totem poll jobs.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
There's no.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Like the aumility is incredibley.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Because I remember they was there was when the two pilots,
I think they'd gone. It was it twenty nine poems
and saw y'all and everything like that, and I remember
that happening and we found out afterwards, okay, we were
you know, they were from Fort Hood. We were list
and I was like, god, you know, I was pissed
because they went, they were.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Able to do that.
Speaker 6 (14:32):
And then I was like, well, we would have went
if y'all had said something.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
If y'all had you know, we would have liked to
be there. But you know, sometimes when when when they're
doing their.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
Little stuff, they don't think through I don't think it
was there trying to command who arranged that, So they're
thinking of their.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Guys and getting this done, and they.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
Didn't think of us, you know, wanting to be a
part of that, because you know it was we would
have loved and I and I say we, I think
every single one of us would have been loved to
keep contact from the moment of the rescue.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
But over time we've gotten.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
In contact with one and two and three and four
and kept you know, picking up more information and staying
in contact with this person and that person.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Sometimes it's really hard because it brings back a lot
of memories that's necessarily good.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
But I always try my best, Like I said, Clarity,
and I keeping contact Miller, and I keep in contact
a couple of the guys from the Hewitt crew humans
I don't know how. Yeah, keeping contact every once in
a while, Kurty, but I still haven't seen you in person.
(15:45):
I'd gone to two of their reunions. They had one
in Vegas, they had one Virginia or somewhere else, and
everything like that. And I always tried to say, because
I'll say it till day I die, y'all are heroes.
What y'all did for me, I can't imagine. And the
realization is we were rescued in Samara, which was right
(16:06):
side right outside of Tokrit.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
And we know that they were moving us there. We're
not stupid.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
We know once we found out where we were, you know,
after the rescue, and how close it was to create
We knew that that was the mission to get us
to Saddam's hometown, and we don't know if we would
have made it if we got that far.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
So to give you a little backstory to Jay, she
had mentioned the two pilots. So the two there was
two Apache longbow pilots that were shot down that joined
them in captivity, so they weren't. So there was five
that were with you, Shoshana, right, and then the two
the two Apache longbow pilots that got so it was
(16:47):
an Apache got shot down with two pilots on boarder,
you know, and so they had linked up with them,
so that would.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh my god, So Shirshawanna, when you see Purnier, so
he's the one whose arm you grant coming out of there,
you see him now here, what goes to your mind?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Joy? It is really a lot of joy because I
think of that day and what he did for me,
and you know, I keep on saying a grown man.
In my head, he's still the eighteen year old.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
He's he's a grown man with two kids, I mean,
and your daughter's what twenty now nineteen?
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah? Yeah, I have a twenty year old and a
three year old.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Oh open the Lord.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Yeah, so I was I was a baby having a baby,
and then kind of you know, my wife and I
for years had talked about, hey, like are we going
to have another kid? And we waited, you know, seventeen
years later to have another kid.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So pretty well, So Shaana, like what what do you think,
Like what what kind of grace.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
And love can you give yourself from seeing her and
knowing what you've.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Done, you know what? They just like seeing her, Like,
so this is the third time that I've seen her,
but like every time I'm just so like I'm thankful
that she like she's here, you know, like I'm glad
that we were there, you know, and we were able
to do that. And I'm like I see her and
it's like I'm like it's it's exciting seeing you and
(18:12):
like you're doing well and you know, everything's good, you know,
Like I'm so glad I was able to be a
part of that. And yeah, just like it's you know,
I've seen pictures of her and it's like every time
it like it's almost like I'm proud of her, you know,
like sounds weird, It's like I'm proud, you know, Like
what she's accomplished and she's she's doing well.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
You know, I'm here, I'm here thankfully and thanks to you.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
You know, it's just so surreal.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
I mean, there are times when I think that that
really happened to me, and that I mean the whole experience.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
But then I was like, man, they came and broke
down the damn door. They came and broke down the
damn door.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
That's a different love right there.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yeah, I came and broke down the damn door.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
And you know what, as a black woman, sometimes history
doesn't treat us well, you know, in history and stuff
like that. But I'll never forget they came and broke
down the damn door for me. You know, they came
and broke down the damn door for me.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So it means a.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Lot, and it just it shows that as brothers and sisters,
you know that put on a uniform, we don't forget
each other.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
No matter what we look like, we don't forget each other.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
We always try to break everybody home, you know before
that's a special bond. That's a special bond. And I
am proof of that. They didn't leave me behind, they
didn't forget me. I've had the pleasure to meet many
veterans that were in serving at the same.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Time, and they were like, man, we hit a city,
we you know, you know, we looked, you know.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
And it wasn't just the Special Forces or Justice it
was every day men and women in uniform talking about
when we hit that city, we looked because we knew
that you were still out there.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
And that gives you a comfort to know that you know,
I wasn't being left behind. They were constantly looking for me, constantly.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I want everybody at home to hear this, and here
in Veteran's Day weekend.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I want you, when you meet someone who served, don't
just walk up and say, hey, thank you for your service.
I really get them to know it, understand it, feel it,
and really make them understand like how much we appreciate
you making us feel like we're worthy for fighting for
and for protecting.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And that's what you both have done. This is incredible, Kurtie.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Before I let you guys go, have you been able
to I was talking this is what I told your
guy Eliot, all right, because Elliott afterwards had a difficulty
after his military was over because of his injuries.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I was like, hey, Eliott, you need to look at
everybody and.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Don't look down, don't even look us in the eye.
Look a little bit above us, because you're different. Everything
you've done, you're different than the rest of us. You
were up here. Give yourself that love and compassion to
know that you're different than everybody else out there in
a great way.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Pardy, Have you been able.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
To love yourself up for that and know like, oh
my god, what I did here for someone else?
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Yeah? Yeah, different? But you know, back to the whole
mental health, Uh, you know, it's when you do things
like that or you know, my experience is, you know, everybody,
you know, we went through the highs and the lows,
you know, and when we came back off that deployment,
it was walking around our chests puffed out and feeling
like we were andre the giant and you know, but
then you've kind of you know that that that fast
(21:37):
paced it's not there anymore. So you know, that's when
you start hearing about you know, PTSD things like that.
And you know, there was times where you know, we
were drinking every day. You know, that's kind of how
we coped with it coming off that deployment until we
got back into the next deployment cycle and went back
and deployed again. And then you come back off that,
you know, second trip to afghanist or I'm sorry, second
(21:57):
trip to Iraq, and you know, you're you're dealing with
your mental health the same way you did before, which
is drinking and things like that, and you know, so
it kind of took me a while to realize and process,
you know, how to handle things, and you know, even
you know, when you look back on what we did,
it's like we did something so great, you know, but
(22:18):
we came home and we suffered like every like you know,
like ninety whatever percent of the other guys do that
come home. So, you know, my biggest takeaway from that
is like, I know what I went through, and I
was on the other side of what Sshana went through.
So it's like I can't even imagine the trauma, the
mental health trauma that they may have gone through, you know.
To me, I think that's a bigger piece that needs
(22:40):
to be talked about.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
So Shamas, it's a lot some days. It's a lot.
Some days. I think people assume that you come home
and then you're just you're home, you're good and everything,
and it's not that easy.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I come from a very large military family. My dad
served in Desert Storm along with the aunt uncle. During
this conflict, I had a cousin marine who was in
country at the same time I was, And when I
went to a long stool, I passed my cousin. We
saw each other in the hospital. He came to see me.
By the time I hit us soil, he was in Iraq.
(23:16):
So this is what we do as a family. This
is our journey. And I have a lot of support
and a lot of people that understand what I'm going
through from dating back from Korean Korean War when we
first hit the United States as immigrants and started serving.
But yet I still struggle. Even with all that support,
even within family members that I know I can talk
(23:36):
to about combat and all that kind of stuff, I
still struggle. I've been hospitalized three times.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Wow, three times.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It's a lot to handle.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
And then you know, I get extra attention, so that
puts a little pressure on me, you know, to be
a certain way and handle it a certain way. And
then they want to put these titles on you. You're this,
You're that, and every day you're just struggling to get
up out of bed. And you know, be normal and
things like that. It can be a lot, and there's
(24:07):
nothing wrong with saying I need help. There's nothing wrong
to say and I'm broken because you know, when it
comes down to it, there's a small percentage of the
population who was even willing to do the job.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Very small part of the population that was willing to
do the job. And if I'm willing to do the
job and I'm suffering, now I can say I need help.
And you know, this is a lot we have that.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
We've earned that right to do that, and we need
to give each other room to do that. Sometimes we
can put more weight on each other veterans. I think
one of the reasons I do so well is because
of my family and the military background and the fact
that they're just a little crazy. It's a little little
out there to begin with. My hometown is very supportive,
(24:54):
but also I can reach.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Out to some of the other guys. Joseph Hudson. Hudson,
one of my fellow persons of Wars, lives here in Opasso.
Dave Williams, one of the pilots. He lived in No Passo.
Now he lives in what is Mexico with his wife Wow.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Yeah, so I can reach out and get some help.
There are four female prison former prisoners of war a
living in the United States, and I can contact those
four women if I really need a female perspective. Jessica
and Melissa contact me regularly. They check up on me
and stuff like that. I check up on them.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
So it's a support system.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
And the biggest support always comes from your brothers and
sisters in arms. Your buddy to the left and the
buddy to the right that carried you through the fire.
Those are the ones understand more than anybody else in
the world.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Absolutely. To go back to what you were saying too,
Jay is like, you know, you hear you know, people
come up and say, hey, you know on Veterans Day,
thank you for your service, and you know that stuff.
It's like, you know, I don't you know, you know,
obviously you thank them, but it's really hard to in
their shoes and what they've done.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
You know.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
I have some friends of mine that're like, oh, yeah,
you're you're a marine, you know this and that, like,
but you don't know what it took to do that,
or what it took to be here, or like, you know,
the mental health aspect, like you don't understand that where
you're just like, oh, yeah, you know, you can you know,
you know, for instance, you can go to Chili's and
get a free meal, like okay, but you don't know
really like the sacrifice you know, for not only myself,
(26:25):
you know, my family, things like that, you know, the
time away and all that stuff that it took to
quote unquote earn that free meal.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And look, us civilians, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And that's what for us like, and I've talked a
lot of our veteran fans about this, give civilians grace too. Yes, well,
we don't know, we don't know, right, but when we
do say to you, hey, thank you for your service,
and we do mean to give those people some love
and grace and allow that love, especially in these weeks
coming up here.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I always tell people like Veterans Day, man, this is
this is your super Bowl, this is what you should
be celebrating something about yourself. And you're ingrained and you're
training the military not to celebrate yourself and not to
you know, celebrate those moments, but you need to. You know,
that's your equity in life. It's these moments that you
find out who you really are. That's your equity in life.
It's not monetary equity. That's that pells in comparison.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
To what you found out about yourself, to what Shoshana
found out about herself. You have to allow other people
to realize, Okay, they're not going to get that. Okay,
they're gonna love me up for it. I need to
start taking that and allow yourself that.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Praise because you did go through that.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
You went through the blood and these tears and the
amount of pain that none of us could really ever imagine.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
So allow yourself to get love them.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
Oh absolutely, all right, man, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
It's hard. It's hard. You're right. We're trained not to
take up and.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's the problem. Like you guys, I always say, if
you guys get out of the military. I was always
you know, trying to help everybody. Like our biggest problem
is not feeling able to use what you went through.
Like Shashana. You want to talk about unbreakable, Oh my god, Like,
it's nobody more unbreakable I ever come across entire life.
I've been around super Bowl champion is, you know, fighter champions. Everything,
(28:05):
nobody comes close to what you've gone through, what you've
persevered and the level that you were on and you know, Kurnie,
this level of selflessness and drive.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
It you have to go do this for somebody you
don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It's a different level, and you all aren't able to
put that down in a form where you can say, Okay,
how does this equate to civilian life? But everybody else
is lying on their resumes, you know, when they come
out of college. You guys kind of dumbed down what
you've done.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And that really is the biggest problem. So that's especially
on this and on this veteran's day, do me affair
were here, both of you give.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yourself more grace and compassion and realize, yeah, what we
went through is different than everybody else.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I'm different than everybody else, and that's good. And love
yourself up and hold yourself a little bit higher.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
You do that for me absolutely, all Right?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Before I let you go, you guys want to say
anything to each other again?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
It's the third time you want to be How are
we going to make that happen?
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Curry?
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Are you?
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
No, I think we need to. I think you know,
I've thought about it for years. It's like, you know,
I would love for you to meet my family. Yeah,
My wife has heard, you know, she's heard the stories
and you know, not just from me, but the other
guys that were there, and uh, you know, I would
love for yeah, I would. I would love for that.
You know. I think they just got home right now
to bring them in when we stopped recording.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Okay, here's my commivment. I would like to make this
happen you both. I will cover it personally. Okay, I'll
do it. I will personally do it whatever takes to
get you to to meet your families, to meet whether
we fly Kearnie to Passo, Shoshana to Curry.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Where are you at?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
I'm in California, Southern California?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Okay, southern California. How much othern California? Great Shoshana.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Can we fly you and your family out here to
meet them?
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Let's do it?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Okay, perfect, that's my pledge, and I thank you for
you both.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Let's do yeah, yeah yeah, let's get the game back together.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Done. We're doing that. It'll be the best holiday we've
ever had. All right, all right, we were doing that
for the holidays. I love y'all.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I really appreciate you joining me, Sashana. Thank you for
inspiring us all. You said something earlier too, you said
you were schoolized three times mental health.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
How are you doing that?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I'm doing okay.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
It's been, like I said, last couple of weeks, I have
been a little rough seeing that stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Because so real in the Middle East, exactly what I
went through.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
Reached out to my therapist, you know, taking my anti
good pressants. You know, I'm trying to take it easy.
I'm actually going to the cousin I passed in Germany
is getting married this weekend, so I'm going to his wedding. Actually,
it's gonna be like five of US veteran cousins get together, right,
So that's gonna be problems. We're gonna raise hell.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Like I said, I'm around sports teams all the time.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
There's no better team in the US military.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
So brother and sister, it's gonna be off the chain.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I know.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I know. He tried to warn his buddies.
Speaker 6 (31:01):
My family come in, dude, and a bunch of them
are veterans and stuff.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
So y'all get to be ready. Can't wait? I really
can't wait.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Hey, you also have my number now too, And look,
I'm doing this, this this podcast to help people with
their mental health between the ears and one of my
big things.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
You always have to be a service and you've got
to have a team. So now I'm part of your team.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
You know that anytime the roommates in our head are
barking and you didn't hear, you need a text, whatever,
come me in.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I'm in your team.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
I appreciate that chat.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Appreciate it, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I love you all so much. Thank you so much
for joining me here. We're gonna make this happen in person.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
This is Unbreakable Mental Health Podcast with Jay Glazer, Kurnie Russell,
Sirshanna Johnson.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Thank you so much. Love y'all. Let's keep walking this walk.
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome in too, Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
I'm Jay Glazier, and today is a special show.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Sorry Veterans Day week show.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You all know how invested I am into the military
and our veterans, and today is the best guests I've
ever had, Coolest guests I've ever had, most amazing story
I have ever heard in my life. And I do
have to get a little housekeeping out of the way
here first. If you're like many people, you will be
surprised to learn that one in five adults in this
country experienced mental illness last year. Get far too many
(00:46):
fail to receive the support they need. Carolin, Behavioral health
is doing something about it. They understand that behavioral health
is a key part of whole health, delivering compassionate care
that treats physical, mental, emotional, and social needs and tandem
Carol and behavioral Health raising the quality of life through
empathy and action. All right, Welcome in again to Unbreakable,
mental health podcast with Jay Glazer.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Special Veterans Day Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I never get guest starstruck or words are hard to
come by in the last I don't know, thirty years
of doing this and the career I've in except for
one time in my life. That's the other time I've
met these two people and don't know what I'm going
to do in justice introducing them. But folks, you want
to be on this journey with us because it's the
(01:31):
most incredible story of love, first, perseverance, courage, and so
many other adjectives that you all will come up with
along this journey.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm so grateful they're here with me. Let me lay
this out correctly.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Here.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
There's two guests, and we've never done this before.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
All right, Sushana Johnson, who's the first African American female
POW that America's ever had, and the marine that rescued
her in Iraq.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Kurnie Russell. Welcome both to Unbreakable. Were you kept secure
in the same place that you were being held there?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
No another it was a schoolhouse or something like that.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Yeah, we had h there was another platoon that was
tasked with like finding that area. And uh so once
we once we got them, you know, we once we
once we got them everybody secure, got them out to
the vehicles, and vehicles came up. We loaded them up
onto the LAVs that we were we were riding on,
and we just I remember it was like those things
go quick, like to my knowledge, there's still like one
(02:31):
of the fastest ground moving like vehicles in war, you know,
or you know, in combat theaters. So we loaded them
up and just haul das out of there, you know,
we had it was like, let's get them as far
away from that place as possible. To remember, everybody's on rooftops,
people are coming out. So I remember, we just got
them out of there and we brought them back to
a to an area that was already secured, and uh,
(02:53):
but it was still in the city. You know. It's
not like it's secure and there's fences around and things
like that. It's still kind of it's in the city.
And I remember, like we're told like, hey, like pretty
much form a human wall around them, you know, like
make them safe, make let them know we're protected. Remember
they don't have weapons to protect themselves at this point,
like we are their protections. So yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
How long did you have to do that for?
Speaker 5 (03:15):
You know, I can't remember like a time wise how
long it was. It seemed like a little while because
like like Shoshana was saying, like this call said to
be made, like hey, we got them, now send helicopters
so we can bring them back to kuwait, you know.
And so we went on the helicopters and uh, you
know kind of how small the world is is our
(03:35):
friend Elliott, he had got meta backed a few nights prior,
you know, he had had his night injury and you know,
things like that. So him and I had you know,
we went to schooling together. We were just as like
all the new guys, you stick together, right, So we
were like we were new together. And I remember hearing
that he had got hurt and nobody knew what was
going on. I didn't know if he was alive, if
(03:57):
he was dead. So when the helicopter came that there
was two helicopters, the one that we loaded up on.
I remember talking to like the crew chief in the
back and he was like, hey, you know, we were
just we just flew a metavac for you guys the
other night. I was like, hey, that's my friend Elliott.
He's like yeah. I was like, is he okay? Is
he alive. He's like, oh yeah, he's alive. He's gonna
make it. So that was when I found out that
Elliott was still alive. Was that flight back towards I
(04:20):
think we went into where that picture was taken behind her.
I want to say they were calling it like three
Rivers Air Base or something like that. But that ride there,
that's how I found out that Elliott was still alive.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Wow, the amazing Eliot RUI is how I met you.
Two incredible people. So pretty what point did you realize,
oh my god, we just saved American pews.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
I don't think it really hit me until we were
down in Kuwait. You know, it was you know, mentally,
it was like kind of we're going out. It's like
we're working. You know, you're going out, you're working, you know.
And then then it really hit me until we were
down in Kuwait and I was like, whoa, like you know,
and if you know, I remember telling I don't know
if Shashaana remembers, but we had heard somebody had asked
(05:03):
about Jessica Jesse, like hey, where's Jessica or something like that.
I remember Jessica Lynch Yeah, and I remember telling them like,
oh they rescued her, like I think it was a
few days prior, a week or so prior, and I
remember they started hugging and crying. They're like, Jessica's alive.
Jessica's alive. And I was asked about somebody else and
I didn't know, and I was like, I don't know,
I forget, I can't remember who. I just remember hearing Jessica,
(05:27):
and they asked another name, and I didn't hear anything
about that other person, so I imagine that they didn't make it.
So I didn't say anything. I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
At what point did you realize, man, like give yourself
almost disgrace of like, oh my god, we just did.
If you're going to sign up for the military, right,
and yeah, you're gonna do the greatest that you could do.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
This is it?
Speaker 5 (05:48):
And you yeah, you know that didn't hit me until,
like I said, so, you know, Shashawana had mentioned that
she had I think you mentioned you had a niece
that you may not have met if the rescue didn't
go down. So my girlfriend at the time, my wife
now been married twenty years, but she was pregnant with
our first daughter. And I remember like on the ship
(06:08):
ride going over, you get mail, you know, and one
of the last you know, I didn't know if I
was having a boy or a girl. We were still
trying to talking about names through mail and that takes forever.
So I remember going back, like when we got to Kuwait,
I was able to use the phone. We're in, like
we brought to this hospital, Shshana and I. We went
to a little medical fields off site first before we
went to the bigger hospital, but you know, I got
(06:31):
to use a phone, and the first phone call I
made was to my girlfriend. Finally I was like, Hey,
we having a boy or a girl? And she's like,
we're having a girl. And I was like okay, you know,
and I was like kind of relieve, like okay, now
when I go back and something happens, at least I
know that I was having you know, I had a daughter.
But then I remember she was like, hey, you know,
asking me questions and I'm like, I don't know, like
(06:52):
you may hear some stuff on TV, you know, like
that was that was us. It's all we can really
say right now. And I think that's when it really
clicked me, like whoa, Like that's like she's gonna be
hearing about that on TV. I'm having a girl. Oh yeah,
I'm having a girl.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know, she's talking to a hero. That's unbelievable. Go
ahead for trying.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
I'm sorry, I would say, and not to know that
she would probably see this the next day.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Yeah, yeah, exactly her. Yeah my mom.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, that picture of you rescuing her the next day,
that got circular here in the States the next day.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
It was probably not too long after. Oh my god,
yeah that picture was it?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Yeah, because that picture was taken at three Rivers Air Base.
I think they were calling it three Rivers Air Base
and U yeah, we were loaded up onto a seat
getting ready to load up on the sea one thirty
that flew us down, Yes, yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
The reporters were all in my face.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
They were all in yeah. So that picture, yeah, I pushed,
I pushed somebody back, and I honestly that's probably how
they snapped it. So it looks like, yes, you know,
a live action shot of like the fresh rescue, but
that it had been a few hours so when you got.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You guys, okay, how long are you all together for?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And also I think the thing that kind of struck
me the most two last time I talked to you too,
as we think, okay, you rescue someone and you guys
all fly back to the States and that's it. But
that wasn't the case, like you, you went back and
continue to serve Cardie.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Right.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
Yeah, So we we knew how we were getting, like
Castro and I. We knew how we were getting, but
we really didn't know how we were getting down to Quay.
We were just told, hey, don't turn them over to
anybody except I think it was like a kernel or above,
and you just don't see colonels walking around everywhere like
oh six is you know, officers. I'll see a lance
corporal or a sergeant or you know, or like a
(08:38):
lower level you know, E three or something like that.
You see them, they're everywhere, but like an O six,
a kernel or above is like where the hell are
we going to find a kernel or above?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
You know?
Speaker 5 (08:48):
And luckily the hospital we went to I think was
ran by a colonel because I remember they're like, hey,
you know, okay, so we'll take up from here, and
I'm like, We're like, no, they're not leaving our site
until there's a kernel here that's going to take them,
like take possession pretty much and you know, responsibility, and
they're like, we can find one, you know, we can
get one in the hospital. Like Colonel comes out. I
think it's an army colonel. He's like, I think I
(09:10):
can take them, Like all right, go ahead. You know.
That was when we that was no, that was when
we went to take a shower and clean up.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You know.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I remember it was like, you know, we had live
grenades and all that stuff, and they didn't want that
in the hospital anywhere. And we're like, we're not giving
these up. You know. They remember, they're like these can't
come in the room, and we're like, well they're not
going to go in the room without us, and we
need like our kid, like that's our that's all we knew.
You know, that's our safety. Bo. We're not giving it up.
And there was a little back and forth. They let
(09:41):
us like escort them around places with you know, with
our you know guns and ammo and you know grenades,
and then finally somebody was like, hey, look we have
a safe room. You guys can keep these if you
want to take a shower. So yeah, we saw each
other after that, just prior to when Castro and I
eventually found our way back up north. We basically hitchhiked
(10:01):
our way back into Iraq. That sounds weird. Yeah, so
we uh, we wanted to get back up with our unit.
You know, we wanted to We wanted to continue on.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Back up, back up, hold on. Do you know this part?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
No, I didn't know how they got back up there.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
I had, but I remember the part about them having
all their AMMO and stuff like that, and they were like, oh,
you can't bring that this part.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And I remember the rest of us were like, well,
we're not going. We're going with them, and they were like,
but no, they can't come. And I said, well, y'all,
I remember we're thinking, well, what are y'all gonna do?
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Because we moved with them, They're not going without the stuff.
I mean, there was even a part where they were
like moving me and I was like, okay, but where's
my marine.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I don't know where he was. I don't know what
he went to do. And I was like, but where's
my marine? I can't go. I mean, because at that
point that was my security.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
I knew I was gonna be okay because they were
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
So it took a while, you know, even to for
them to eat me and say you're gonna be okay,
we got you, we got you. I was like looking
around constantly.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Where's there a proper goodbye from you too?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Not really? No, yeah, I think I think the following morning.
I think following morning we would like check the make
sure they were all right, and then Castro and I
pretty much hit hiped our way back up.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Yeah, And that was it.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So you didn't there's no goodbye, no nothing, did you?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh my god, that's like this and how much longer
did you end up fighting over there in Iraq before
you end up coming home?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
So when we left the hospital, I say we hitchhiped
our way back. It sounds weird, but that's literally how
it was. There was no plan for us to get
back up to our unit. So we went out and
we saw like a convoy and like, hey, you guys
going to Iraq. And because we were in you know,
we were in Kuwait, we're like, hey, you guys going north.
You guys are going to Iraq. And they're like, well
we're going here, which they were going into Iraq. So
(11:51):
we're like, all right, we'll ride with you guys. You know,
you guys have brooms. So we rode with a some
army unit. Then we got up to I forget, you know,
into Iraq where we were.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Then we were.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Kind of like hanging around and like, hey, are you
guys going north? Like that was a question, are you
guys going north? And they're like yeah, like you guys
have room for two, like yep, So we hopped in
we just can We kept doing that. We got into
bag Dad. It took us a little while. You know,
we got up into Bagdad and uh, I remember we
went to some you know, big like command operations center
(12:23):
that had been established, and you know, we're just walking
around there like you know, going in like hey, like
where's where's Third La R you know, Delta Company, And
they're like, oh, they're over here, and they're like, oh hey,
look this is who we are. We're trying to get
to them and they're like okay, Like there's a convoy
that's leaving at this time. So we just kept convoy
hopping until we eventually got up to where they were
(12:44):
and walked back up and you guys in your unity
are like, what the hell are you guys doing here? Like, oh,
we're back you know.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
How long did you stay? Like again, how long were
you still in?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
So we left when?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Yeah, so we left when you know what once once
you know, it was declared that you know, major combat
operations were over and units were starting to retrograde back
down to Kuwait. So we were there. Let me see
what was it? I think maybe we got back to
the States in June.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Correct, we're still talking a few months you're still over.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
There, so yeah, are you does anybody tell you what's
happened in the Shoshana? Is there any way for you
to still be in touch or is that it like
you rescue Shoshana and these people and that's it last
you guys have any contact?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Which is y? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
That was you mind you like, there was you know,
this was one of years ago. You know there was
you know, social media and all that wasn't as big
as it is now and I didn't think it exists back then,
and uh yeah, you know, yeah it was. You know,
we got back and it was business as usual for us.
You know, I want to say a few weeks later,
a month or so later, I was I don't know
(13:49):
if you're if you've ever seen the movie Apocalypse now
or no, the Charlie Sheen platoon where he's sturring the ship,
you know, burning the ship. That that was me, you know.
Shortly after that back to the back doing the low
man on the totem poll jobs.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
There's no.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Like the aumility is incredibley.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Because I remember they was there was when the two pilots,
I think they'd gone. It was it twenty nine poems
and saw y'all and everything like that, and I remember
that happening and we found out afterwards, okay, we were
you know, they were from Fort Hood. We were list
and I was like, god, you know, I was pissed
because they went, they were.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Able to do that.
Speaker 6 (14:32):
And then I was like, well, we would have went
if y'all had said something.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
If y'all had you know, we would have liked to
be there. But you know, sometimes when when when they're
doing their.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
Little stuff, they don't think through I don't think it
was there trying to command who arranged that, So they're
thinking of their.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Guys and getting this done, and they.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
Didn't think of us, you know, wanting to be a
part of that, because you know it was we would
have loved and I and I say we, I think
every single one of us would have been loved to
keep contact from the moment of the rescue.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
But over time we've gotten.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
In contact with one and two and three and four
and kept you know, picking up more information and staying
in contact with this person and that person.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Sometimes it's really hard because it brings back a lot
of memories that's necessarily good.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
But I always try my best, Like I said, Clarity,
and I keeping contact Miller, and I keep in contact
a couple of the guys from the Hewitt crew humans
I don't know how. Yeah, keeping contact every once in
a while, Kurty, but I still haven't seen you in person.
(15:45):
I'd gone to two of their reunions. They had one
in Vegas, they had one Virginia or somewhere else, and
everything like that. And I always tried to say, because
I'll say it till day I die, y'all are heroes.
What y'all did for me, I can't imagine. And the
realization is we were rescued in Samara, which was right
(16:06):
side right outside of Tokrit.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
And we know that they were moving us there. We're
not stupid.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
We know once we found out where we were, you know,
after the rescue, and how close it was to create
We knew that that was the mission to get us
to Saddam's hometown, and we don't know if we would
have made it if we got that far.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
So to give you a little backstory to Jay, she
had mentioned the two pilots. So the two there was
two Apache longbow pilots that were shot down that joined
them in captivity, so they weren't. So there was five
that were with you, Shoshana, right, and then the two
the two Apache longbow pilots that got so it was
(16:47):
an Apache got shot down with two pilots on boarder,
you know, and so they had linked up with them,
so that would.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh my god, So Shirshawanna, when you see Purnier, so
he's the one whose arm you grant coming out of there,
you see him now here, what goes to your mind?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Joy? It is really a lot of joy because I
think of that day and what he did for me,
and you know, I keep on saying a grown man.
In my head, he's still the eighteen year old.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
He's he's a grown man with two kids, I mean,
and your daughter's what twenty now nineteen?
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah? Yeah, I have a twenty year old and a
three year old.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Oh open the Lord.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Yeah, so I was I was a baby having a baby,
and then kind of you know, my wife and I
for years had talked about, hey, like are we going
to have another kid? And we waited, you know, seventeen
years later to have another kid.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So pretty well, So Shaana, like what what do you think,
Like what what kind of grace.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
And love can you give yourself from seeing her and
knowing what you've.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Done, you know what? They just like seeing her, Like,
so this is the third time that I've seen her,
but like every time I'm just so like I'm thankful
that she like she's here, you know, like I'm glad
that we were there, you know, and we were able
to do that. And I'm like I see her and
it's like I'm like it's it's exciting seeing you and
(18:12):
like you're doing well and you know, everything's good, you know,
Like I'm so glad I was able to be a
part of that. And yeah, just like it's you know,
I've seen pictures of her and it's like every time
it like it's almost like I'm proud of her, you know,
like sounds weird, It's like I'm proud, you know, Like
what she's accomplished and she's she's doing well.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
You know, I'm here, I'm here thankfully and thanks to you.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
You know, it's just so surreal.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
I mean, there are times when I think that that
really happened to me, and that I mean the whole experience.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
But then I was like, man, they came and broke
down the damn door. They came and broke down the
damn door.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
That's a different love right there.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yeah, I came and broke down the damn door.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
And you know what, as a black woman, sometimes history
doesn't treat us well, you know, in history and stuff
like that. But I'll never forget they came and broke
down the damn door for me. You know, they came
and broke down the damn door for me.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So it means a.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Lot, and it just it shows that as brothers and sisters,
you know that put on a uniform, we don't forget
each other.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
No matter what we look like, we don't forget each other.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
We always try to break everybody home, you know before
that's a special bond. That's a special bond. And I
am proof of that. They didn't leave me behind, they
didn't forget me. I've had the pleasure to meet many
veterans that were in serving at the same.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Time, and they were like, man, we hit a city,
we you know, you know, we looked, you know.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
And it wasn't just the Special Forces or Justice it
was every day men and women in uniform talking about
when we hit that city, we looked because we knew
that you were still out there.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
And that gives you a comfort to know that you know,
I wasn't being left behind. They were constantly looking for me, constantly.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I want everybody at home to hear this, and here
in Veteran's Day weekend.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I want you, when you meet someone who served, don't
just walk up and say, hey, thank you for your service.
I really get them to know it, understand it, feel it,
and really make them understand like how much we appreciate
you making us feel like we're worthy for fighting for
and for protecting.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And that's what you both have done. This is incredible, Kurtie.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Before I let you guys go, have you been able
to I was talking this is what I told your
guy Eliot, all right, because Elliott afterwards had a difficulty
after his military was over because of his injuries.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I was like, hey, Eliott, you need to look at
everybody and.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Don't look down, don't even look us in the eye.
Look a little bit above us, because you're different. Everything
you've done, you're different than the rest of us. You
were up here. Give yourself that love and compassion to
know that you're different than everybody else out there in
a great way.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Pardy, Have you been able.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
To love yourself up for that and know like, oh
my god, what I did here for someone else?
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Yeah? Yeah, different? But you know, back to the whole
mental health, Uh, you know, it's when you do things
like that or you know, my experience is, you know, everybody,
you know, we went through the highs and the lows,
you know, and when we came back off that deployment,
it was walking around our chests puffed out and feeling
like we were andre the giant and you know, but
then you've kind of you know that that that fast
(21:37):
paced it's not there anymore. So you know, that's when
you start hearing about you know, PTSD things like that.
And you know, there was times where you know, we
were drinking every day. You know, that's kind of how
we coped with it coming off that deployment until we
got back into the next deployment cycle and went back
and deployed again. And then you come back off that,
you know, second trip to afghanist or I'm sorry, second
(21:57):
trip to Iraq, and you know, you're you're dealing with
your mental health the same way you did before, which
is drinking and things like that, and you know, so
it kind of took me a while to realize and process,
you know, how to handle things, and you know, even
you know, when you look back on what we did,
it's like we did something so great, you know, but
(22:18):
we came home and we suffered like every like you know,
like ninety whatever percent of the other guys do that
come home. So, you know, my biggest takeaway from that
is like, I know what I went through, and I
was on the other side of what Sshana went through.
So it's like I can't even imagine the trauma, the
mental health trauma that they may have gone through, you know.
To me, I think that's a bigger piece that needs
(22:40):
to be talked about.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
So Shamas, it's a lot some days. It's a lot.
Some days. I think people assume that you come home
and then you're just you're home, you're good and everything,
and it's not that easy.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I come from a very large military family. My dad
served in Desert Storm along with the aunt uncle. During
this conflict, I had a cousin marine who was in
country at the same time I was, And when I
went to a long stool, I passed my cousin. We
saw each other in the hospital. He came to see me.
By the time I hit us soil, he was in Iraq.
(23:16):
So this is what we do as a family. This
is our journey. And I have a lot of support
and a lot of people that understand what I'm going
through from dating back from Korean Korean War when we
first hit the United States as immigrants and started serving.
But yet I still struggle. Even with all that support,
even within family members that I know I can talk
(23:36):
to about combat and all that kind of stuff, I
still struggle. I've been hospitalized three times.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Wow, three times.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It's a lot to handle.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
And then you know, I get extra attention, so that
puts a little pressure on me, you know, to be
a certain way and handle it a certain way. And
then they want to put these titles on you. You're this,
You're that, and every day you're just struggling to get
up out of bed. And you know, be normal and
things like that. It can be a lot, and there's
(24:07):
nothing wrong with saying I need help. There's nothing wrong
to say and I'm broken because you know, when it
comes down to it, there's a small percentage of the
population who was even willing to do the job.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Very small part of the population that was willing to
do the job. And if I'm willing to do the
job and I'm suffering, now I can say I need help.
And you know, this is a lot we have that.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
We've earned that right to do that, and we need
to give each other room to do that. Sometimes we
can put more weight on each other veterans. I think
one of the reasons I do so well is because
of my family and the military background and the fact
that they're just a little crazy. It's a little little
out there to begin with. My hometown is very supportive,
(24:54):
but also I can reach.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Out to some of the other guys. Joseph Hudson. Hudson,
one of my fellow persons of Wars, lives here in Opasso.
Dave Williams, one of the pilots. He lived in No Passo.
Now he lives in what is Mexico with his wife Wow.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Yeah, so I can reach out and get some help.
There are four female prison former prisoners of war a
living in the United States, and I can contact those
four women if I really need a female perspective. Jessica
and Melissa contact me regularly. They check up on me
and stuff like that. I check up on them.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
So it's a support system.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
And the biggest support always comes from your brothers and
sisters in arms. Your buddy to the left and the
buddy to the right that carried you through the fire.
Those are the ones understand more than anybody else in
the world.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Absolutely. To go back to what you were saying too,
Jay is like, you know, you hear you know, people
come up and say, hey, you know on Veterans Day,
thank you for your service, and you know that stuff.
It's like, you know, I don't you know, you know,
obviously you thank them, but it's really hard to in
their shoes and what they've done.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
You know.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
I have some friends of mine that're like, oh, yeah,
you're you're a marine, you know this and that, like,
but you don't know what it took to do that,
or what it took to be here, or like, you know,
the mental health aspect, like you don't understand that where
you're just like, oh, yeah, you know, you can you know,
you know, for instance, you can go to Chili's and
get a free meal, like okay, but you don't know
really like the sacrifice you know, for not only myself,
(26:25):
you know, my family, things like that, you know, the
time away and all that stuff that it took to
quote unquote earn that free meal.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And look, us civilians, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And that's what for us like, and I've talked a
lot of our veteran fans about this, give civilians grace too. Yes, well,
we don't know, we don't know, right, but when we
do say to you, hey, thank you for your service,
and we do mean to give those people some love
and grace and allow that love, especially in these weeks
coming up here.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I always tell people like Veterans Day, man, this is
this is your super Bowl, this is what you should
be celebrating something about yourself. And you're ingrained and you're
training the military not to celebrate yourself and not to
you know, celebrate those moments, but you need to. You know,
that's your equity in life. It's these moments that you
find out who you really are. That's your equity in life.
It's not monetary equity. That's that pells in comparison.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
To what you found out about yourself, to what Shoshana
found out about herself. You have to allow other people
to realize, Okay, they're not going to get that. Okay,
they're gonna love me up for it. I need to
start taking that and allow yourself that.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Praise because you did go through that.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
You went through the blood and these tears and the
amount of pain that none of us could really ever imagine.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
So allow yourself to get love them.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
Oh absolutely, all right, man, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
It's hard. It's hard. You're right. We're trained not to
take up and.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's the problem. Like you guys, I always say, if
you guys get out of the military. I was always
you know, trying to help everybody. Like our biggest problem
is not feeling able to use what you went through.
Like Shashana. You want to talk about unbreakable, Oh my god, Like,
it's nobody more unbreakable I ever come across entire life.
I've been around super Bowl champion is, you know, fighter champions. Everything,
(28:05):
nobody comes close to what you've gone through, what you've
persevered and the level that you were on and you know, Kurnie,
this level of selflessness and drive.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
It you have to go do this for somebody you
don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It's a different level, and you all aren't able to
put that down in a form where you can say, Okay,
how does this equate to civilian life? But everybody else
is lying on their resumes, you know, when they come
out of college. You guys kind of dumbed down what
you've done.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And that really is the biggest problem. So that's especially
on this and on this veteran's day, do me affair
were here, both of you give.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yourself more grace and compassion and realize, yeah, what we
went through is different than everybody else.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I'm different than everybody else, and that's good. And love
yourself up and hold yourself a little bit higher.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
You do that for me absolutely, all Right?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Before I let you go, you guys want to say
anything to each other again?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
It's the third time you want to be How are
we going to make that happen?
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Curry?
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Are you?
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
No, I think we need to. I think you know,
I've thought about it for years. It's like, you know,
I would love for you to meet my family. Yeah,
My wife has heard, you know, she's heard the stories
and you know, not just from me, but the other
guys that were there, and uh, you know, I would
love for yeah, I would. I would love for that.
You know. I think they just got home right now
to bring them in when we stopped recording.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Okay, here's my commivment. I would like to make this
happen you both. I will cover it personally. Okay, I'll
do it. I will personally do it whatever takes to
get you to to meet your families, to meet whether
we fly Kearnie to Passo, Shoshana to Curry.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Where are you at?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
I'm in California, Southern California?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Okay, southern California. How much othern California? Great Shoshana.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Can we fly you and your family out here to
meet them?
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Let's do it?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Okay, perfect, that's my pledge, and I thank you for
you both.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Let's do yeah, yeah yeah, let's get the game back together.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Done. We're doing that. It'll be the best holiday we've
ever had. All right, all right, we were doing that
for the holidays. I love y'all.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I really appreciate you joining me, Sashana. Thank you for
inspiring us all. You said something earlier too, you said
you were schoolized three times mental health.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
How are you doing that?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I'm doing okay.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
It's been, like I said, last couple of weeks, I have
been a little rough seeing that stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Because so real in the Middle East, exactly what I
went through.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
Reached out to my therapist, you know, taking my anti
good pressants. You know, I'm trying to take it easy.
I'm actually going to the cousin I passed in Germany
is getting married this weekend, so I'm going to his wedding. Actually,
it's gonna be like five of US veteran cousins get together, right,
So that's gonna be problems. We're gonna raise hell.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Like I said, I'm around sports teams all the time.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
There's no better team in the US military.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
So brother and sister, it's gonna be off the chain.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I know.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I know. He tried to warn his buddies.
Speaker 6 (31:01):
My family come in, dude, and a bunch of them
are veterans and stuff.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
So y'all get to be ready. Can't wait? I really
can't wait.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Hey, you also have my number now too, And look,
I'm doing this, this this podcast to help people with
their mental health between the ears and one of my
big things.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
You always have to be a service and you've got
to have a team. So now I'm part of your team.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
You know that anytime the roommates in our head are
barking and you didn't hear, you need a text, whatever,
come me in.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I'm in your team.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
I appreciate that chat.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Appreciate it, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I love you all so much. Thank you so much
for joining me here. We're gonna make this happen in person.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
This is Unbreakable Mental Health Podcast with Jay Glazer, Kurnie Russell,
Sirshanna Johnson.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Thank you so much. Love y'all. Let's keep walking this walk.
Host
Jay Glazer
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