December 11, 2023 • 52 mins
In an emotional episode, Katie and Guillermo welcome Kerry Washington to dive into life at the end of the first season, and what the future held for the Scandal fam. Kerry shares her casting story, how she felt destined for the role and the importance of being true to yourself on the screen. Plus, Kerry jokes how her romance with Fitz was her second-longest relationship after her husband, and Katie discovers a brand new nickname for Guillermo.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Unpacking the Toolboxes, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with Higheart, Radioshas and.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Katie Hiji Hi kick.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
A curly Curly.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
My second grade teacher used to always missus kaylish.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
She was so mean, but she.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Would always sing cocka cocade, My beautiful Katie. There's some
fucking song, remember I know?
Speaker 5 (00:53):
To you?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
She would sing it to you.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
To me when I entered the classroom. Is there any
childhood song where Guillermo is in Hell?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Remember Romper Room? I mean you're you're much younger than
I am. But there was no show called Room, and
the host and the beginning would look into this magical
mirror and be like, I see you Tommy and Katie
and John and Barbara and Ted and.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
Never like how about in New York when you go
into the trinket stores and it's like you can get
a little license plate or a little pencil with like
Katie's always on there, and and it's always in a
variation of spellings.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I might get k A T I E, which is
how I spell it. There might be K A T
y whatever. But you are just straight up funk.
Speaker 7 (01:41):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
They would be like, well, get a William william Is.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I'm like is William gear.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well William is like the English version of Ghirmo. So
my friends, you know, teachers and and my my friends
I couldn't pronounce, would call me Willie like Willie was
my name in school, like for w I L L
I E. Willy. Oh God, not Willy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I call you that from.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now, please. I like it. I actually like it. I'm
gonna get Willy tatted on me.
Speaker 8 (02:12):
I don't know if you can tell Willy Willy Willy
William that I have a lot of extra kick and
pep in my step today.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
Why Well, because we have the most exciting guest for
our listeners today.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I mean, we're obsessed with her.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
We're obsessed with her.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm obsessed with us.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I mean colearly, I mean, and there is no Scandal
without this person, without this person's performance. And honestly, she
changed my life in like every way, because well.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
That's just because that's the person she is.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I don't think anyone who has been lucky enough to
spend time with the one and only number one of
Scandal could say that she hadn't changed their life, because
that's just the magnitude of human that she is.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yes, she's fucking hilarious.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
That's the other thing, Like, Okay, she's an activist, she's
the best actress ever. She's a director, she's a producer.
She's been on Broadway, she's been in movies. She's led
the Democratic National Convention. She's ridiculously the accolades and the.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Respect and all of that, but girl is fucking Hirio.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
That's one of my favorite things about Carrie is remember
laughing with her on set, Like laughing with her was
so much fun, so so much fun. And look, I
wear my shirt that says queen, because Carrie is the queen.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
She's our queen. She's our queen of Scandal. And she
also was the best number one. Yes, I honestly think
this business has ever seen.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
She spoiled. She spoiled all of other TV shows that
I was a regular, which was like two others, But
she spoiled that for because the amount of you know,
class and and uh just a positiveness and respect that
I expected from my number ones after Scandal was like
(04:16):
beyond possible anything that I ever got.
Speaker 7 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, it was like you're no Kerry Washington, No, I
mean she and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Also how I behaved on set like I truly think
there was like speeches made. You know, obviously you guys
have heard on the podcast that well, we knew that
the end was coming our last season, so there were
so many goodbyes. But they kept saying over and over
again that everyone who was lucky enough to be on
this set could go off into their other sets, of
their other jobs, knowing that this type of family feel
(04:45):
and behavior was even possible, and that you could strive
for that and like exist, you should try to have
your cast and crew feel like this. But my god,
this woman, I mean she didn't. Every time she got
nominated for an award, which was all lot, she would
gather the entire crew.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Do you remember this ship?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Gather the entire crew and cast and just like make
the most beautiful speech about mouth that it was about
she did all the time, but how it was everyone
like that, She was nothing without the rest of us
and the crew and the grip. She knew everyone's names,
everyone's significant others' names, who was expecting children, who were
(05:27):
purchasing homes, who needed help like it was.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And she would also, Katie, do you remember she would
when we had background on set whenever we had background,
she would take a moment, either before we started shooting
or after, to say, Hey, I just want to take
a minute to say thank you to you guys. Without you, guys,
we cannot have you know, made scandal, So thank you
background actors.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
You always did that.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That's the first time I ever saw that on set.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
On a side, I've never seen that either. Remember the
lawn Chair episode.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
With them, Oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
With uh Courtney b Vance.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The background actors have to be screaming horrific racial slur
because it's about us shooting all this and and Carrie
is like saying, like, thank you so much for your performance.
Like I know this is not easy. I know this
is hard. This is taking so much energy and it's hard,
ugly things to say. And like, the girl is a leader.
(06:25):
I mean she's not going to run for president, but
my good god, if I wish she would, we would
be so lucky because it's.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Not only you can't do yeah, And not only do
we have Carrie Washington on this episode, we have a
plethora of other amazing guest actors. One of my favorites
is Matt Leshu, who plays Jimmy Chambers. Of course, George
Newburn is in this episode. He plays Charlie Freaking Kate Burton,
Dan Bucatinski.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Oh Brendon Hines as Diddyon Wallace, although in this episode
he does.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
She did in this episode.
Speaker 7 (06:56):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Bella me Young is listed as a guest star in
this episode because she's not a regular yet on the show.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Bellamy did not become a regular until we got picked
up for a second season. And by the way, we're
talking today about episode one oh seven called Grant for
the People, which aired on May seventeenth in twenty twelve.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It was written by the Shonda Rhimes, our other queen.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
There were two queens to make Scandal, Shan and Carry,
and it was directed by Roxanne Dawson.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
But at the time that we shot this.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Episode, we didn't know we were going to get a
second No, we had never aired an episode like yeah,
we shot it and no one had seen it. So
we were still in this like perfect little bubble where
we have no clue how the show was going to
be received.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Listen, what I love about our show and about our
cast is not not one year of our seven seasons
did I ever or any of us ever feel like
ah cool, I'll see you guys next year. We're picked up.
It was ever after every single season we were like,
oh please God, I hope we were fortunate enough to
get picked up. We never got cocky about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Never.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
We didn't take it for granted, no pun intended, but
grant for the people. The name of this episode, grant
taken for granted for the people. But yeah, we were
always just super humble and just like so great.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
That's because shit rolls down hill and Garry Garry.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Never, yes, never took the show, the job or characters
the writing for granted before she comes on, which were
obviously tickled tickled. Let me just tell you fill in
the rest, which is we we said Brendan Hines is
on this episode, but this.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Be it because he died.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
We have Brian Lesser, his Tom Troy Winbush's Morris Elcott,
love him so much. Shannon Cochrane is the Attorney General Sawyer.
Mark Harrolock is the Press secretary.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Marvin Colgate, you're fired, Marvin. That's my favorite.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
By get the fuck out.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
The synopsis is Olivia and the team rally after Quinn
finds Gideon Wallace dying in his apartment. Cyrus turns to
Olivia with annnouncement that affects fits his presidency.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And that's all we're giving you. It's a very short synopsis.
What did you think of my acting in this episode?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Katie? I love your acting, Katie, Katie, listen, can you
look my first page of notes, says Katie's performance in
the scene where she walks in on Gideon and with
the team is electric. It's thutt, roll and raw. It's
mesmerizing all the words like literally the stuff that I
(09:29):
really what are you doing to.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Me, Willy will Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Oh my god, I love that. I told you my
friends called me Willy like for eighteen years of my life.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Oh to talk about you were so.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So good in this episode, Katie, Like truly, I think
I think you thrive on. I think I'm the same too.
It was such a you had to play all this
raw like tragedy like death, and I think you thrive
and you just oh, you were just so real.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Love a high steak moment, people, I love a high
steak moment.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And the shivering you were shivering through your lines. Oh
my god. If you guys have not seen this episode,
you gotta watch it.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It's not just the finally episode of the first season,
and Quinn walks in and sees that giddy She's like, oh,
great bagel place down thing and like I got your
coffee and we fucked last night and like woo hoo.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
And then it's like, oh no, and the coffee.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Falls on the ground, which I remember being on a
Friday night and they said, you can only do this once.
I had to nail that coffee drop slip out of
my hand that spoils everywhere one time.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And then I see Giddey in just wow, scissors in
his neck that Billy Chambers put in there because he
was really close. So a couple of things I remember
is A that I had to nail that coffee drop
once and b I had to reshoot pulling the scissors
out of his neck.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No, do you remember.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
No, we shot the first season and I get a
call like months later saying you have to come in.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
And first of all, I was like, I'm fired.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Always every time we got that call, I'm fired.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
After not getting fired, they were like, you have to
come back in and shoot reshoot the Billy Chamber death scene,
and I was like, are you kidding? That was like
the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life,
like pulling the scissors out, screaming, crying, like trying to
reach the phone and realizing he's dead. And because the
first angle that they should the way they shot it
(11:33):
the first time around, it looked like I killed him?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Are you serious?
Speaker 4 (11:39):
This is my remembering of it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
We will be back with more after the break. Okay, guys,
without further a duty.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Without further a duty, we would like to present.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
We're the stupidest. We would like to present the one,
the only, the Queen, the i'm a, i'm a I'm getting.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Top, I'm drawer. She's top drawer.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
She's top drawer, She's tops of everything. She is our friend,
she is one of the loves of our lolliague.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
She is a colleague. She is well we would just
for real go over a cliff for this person.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yes, and also the biggest goofball just like us.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Yes. Here she is the one and only. Carry Hello,
you look so beautiful. We're so happy trying.
Speaker 7 (12:38):
To put on some concealer for you. Guys.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Pretty I mean, I mean I prefer the five am
four thirty am Monday morning.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
In makeup trailer of.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Kerrie Washington that I missings I do wake up and
I'm like, those were pretty special, insane times.
Speaker 7 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
I saw on social media you posted about being in
hair and makeup with Garama by your side when you
guys were doing some press.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
And it's true. It's just like you know what, I
was worried.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
I was worried that when we didn't have the hair
and makeup trailer, that we wouldn't all still be obsessed
with each other and in love with each other, you know,
because you like, we could just take for granted our
friendships because they were scheduled, but the fact that we're
all still so madly in love with each other, yes,
it's everything.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, But we were just saying before you came on
that that comes from you, and I mean, look, we're
all very special, yes, but you were How did you
know how to be a number one like that?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Like for real?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Do you think it was like you had worked on
so many things and had sort of always taken note
of how to be a leader or it's just innately
in you.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
So I'm having a little bit of a weird like
I feel like it's like a proud mommy because I
feel like when I met you, Katie Lose, you were
always asking me questions like this. But it wasn't for
like a national podcast. It wasn't for like right for
the press. Wasn't you ask people questions.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
Not a little bit less like Barbara Walters to it
and more just like I need to know number one?
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Oh yeah, but you're so it's so sweet because it's
still the essence of you, like you have figured out
a way to you know, stay, like you are just
a naturally curious, you know, inquisitive, adventurous, ambitious person. So
you have It's like, but it's no longer that five
am version of like I do this. It's like now
(14:47):
this very formal presentational version, which I.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Love, Thanks Carrie.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
So I have, I think the number one, number one
in the whole history of number ones in the business.
Speaker 7 (15:03):
And do people know what it means to be a
number one on the call sheet? Like do we have
to explain that?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Let's explain it.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
So every character is assigned a number on the call
sheet based on how important that character is perceived to
be on the show, and sometimes relative to the status
of the actor playing them. And so if you're number
one on the call sheet, you're like the most important
character according to the writers and the producers. So I
learned how to be a number one. I've had incredible
number ones I've worked with through the year. Julia Styles
(15:30):
is an amazing number one. Forrest Whitker is an incredible
number one. But hands down, the award for number one
number one goes to Jamie Fox.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
He's a beast. He is.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
He not only like does his homework, is fully prepared,
is always happy to be there, really passionate and knows
everybody's name.
Speaker 7 (15:50):
He takes care of the background.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
He's grateful, he's humble, he works really hard. He's all
of those things. And you know, I worked with him
on Ray and then ten years later on Jay Go,
and so I got to see, like it really is
who he is. He's just like Wow, He's a leader.
He's a true leader and a generous leader. And he
loves his job, like he really he loves He gets
that we're lucky to do what we do, and he
(16:12):
never let a day go by without us all feeling that.
And so I think, really, I just spent all those
seasons on Scandal pretending to be Jamie Fox.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
We love it. We were talking earlier Carrie about how you,
either before we shot a scene or after, you would
take a moment to address the background actors and just
be like, thank you guys so much for being here.
We could not have done this scene without you, guys,
just the respect you showed background actors. And for someone
who started in background work, I did a ton of
(16:41):
background works. Oh my god, I didn't know that I
was in Green Card, I was, I was at I
did background work on student films, even hard and then little.
But but you know, it's rare that the lead actor
or even producers or directors, you know, unfortunately, treat background
actors with any sort of you know, I mean, you know,
(17:04):
the sure, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
But you are so important scenes.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Oh my gosh, can you imagine if we didn't have
those background actors in the White House, we're just like
a bunch of idiots in hallways, like.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, it's not so dumb. It's like you're making such
for ten yes, And how.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Many times have you watched something where the background totally
ruins the scene?
Speaker 7 (17:24):
Oh my god, I don't believe any of those people
are at a party. I don't believe any of those
people are, you know.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Walking like background, looking at the camera background, they're so vital.
Speaker 7 (17:34):
To the Yeah, very similitude.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, and you could tell on our show, you can
tell invested in what they're doing today.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Just to jog your memories about episode one oh seven,
which is like who is Quinn Perkins? Quinn pulls the
night scissors out of Gideon's throat and I there's the
scene where I don't remember deciding yeah, I'll jog your memory.
I'll jog your memory. Everyone's like, do we don't they
clean it up?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Do we don't? Right?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And you're like, we clean it up. But it was
the example of an oh pa. It wasn't so much
about character development. Maybe it was for other people, but
not for me as much as it was like an
ensemble theater piece of like do not drop your line,
especially this is a peace This is like everyone has
got one line, two lines, like and.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
It's keeping the ball where we got together on the
weekend to rehearse.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, yes, yes, see what is the one I'm talking about?
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Because because it was a play play, we all thought
it was a one act play.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
And I remember.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Betsy Beers being like, you guys did what our producer like, yeah,
we've never heard of that that's bananas.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
But we just it was a play.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
It was a one act play, and we were a
bunch of theater kids who had been lucky enough to
find ourselves on some screens, and so we got up
together on our own to rehearse.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
I think back to that.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
And just think we were so lucky that none of
us had done a ton of prime time at work
television show to know that we weren't supposed to do that.
Speaker 7 (19:04):
But we're so lucky what we didn't know because and
I think, but.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Before Scandal, the job I'd had before Scandal was a movie,
but the but right before it was a movie.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
But right before that.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
You were the star before Scandal. I wanted to ask
you that why TVs.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
I originated a role in David Mannett's play Race, and
to this day, I feel like one of the reasons
why God put me in that play was to figure
out how to do that mammot thing, like how to afrythm,
how to say the word as written no matter what,
how to get out of the way of the language.
(19:39):
Because I felt like I brought so much of that
with me to Scandal.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
The work ethic that you had on Scandal was to
me and I'm not one, but was like like being
an Olympic athlete, which is what you are when you
do Broadway, like when you do a race or you
do a Scandal and you're a number one, like you
are a machine. You can't get sick, you can't not
know your life like it's so everyone is, it's.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
You're there, Yeah, there's Harry.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Me and Katie were talking about earlier and in other
episodes that we've done, how you know we'd see you
in the hair makeup trailer. You'd be on set, but
you were always running lines, and Katie brought up you
were running lines sometimes for the next scene. They weren't
just mind hey, yeah next, they were like monologues. You'd
be like, let's go to the next scene, Let's go
to tomorrow scene. Like it was like you had to
(20:28):
do that shit non stop.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
I know everyone saw since Scandal when somebody up comes
up to me on a set and says like, I'm
really sorry.
Speaker 7 (20:34):
I know it's a lot today, like this is nothing, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Oh my gosh, a lot. When you got the Scandal script,
why television? Why this script? Why this part? And how
did you get it?
Speaker 5 (20:49):
So everybody knew about this script, Like every black woman
in Hollywood between the ages of like nine to ninety
nine audition.
Speaker 7 (20:59):
Everybody wanted it.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
We knew it was like a historic, once in a
lifetime kind of opportunity. I heard about it through the grapevine.
My manager, who you both know, Kathy, call me. She
was like, there's this new Shonda Rhyme show. It stars
a black woman.
Speaker 7 (21:13):
We feel like you're really right for it. But Shonda,
I think Shonda.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Said I was too young because the character was written
to be in their forties, which I'm in my forties now,
so at the time, it was like I might be
too young for it. But it felt when I read it,
I literally did that thing which sounds so cliche, but
I did that thing where I threw it across the
room at some point because I was like this, like
this was written for me, like nobody else to be
(21:39):
playing this role, agreed, But I also knew that like
there were forty other actresses who felt exactly the same whatever,
and like really amazing actresses who I admire and love
and peers of mind and people I looked up to,
and we all just read We all just you know,
read and at first I met with Shonda. Actually, because
I was a I had done a bunch of movies
and so my team had negotiated a meeting first. So
(22:03):
I went in and I remember getting off the elevator
and seeing this huge sign that said Shonda Land.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
And I was like, Oh, I don't know how this
is going to go.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Like this seems a lot.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Yeah, I was like, give up my citizenship and move
to somebody's land.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
And I was nervous. I was like, gosh, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
I had done a couple arcs on television, but I'd
obviously never been in a series. I've done two other
pilots that I got fired from. Really, yes, but so
I met with Shanda.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
For all the actors listening, my god, is that like
a hopeful Yeah.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
The two other pilots I did before Skindle, I was
fired and both.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Shows why because you were too talented or too beautiful?
Speaker 7 (22:44):
No, both shows wet, but they replaced me.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You know why, probably because they knew you were a
star and you were stealing in from the rest.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
No, it was a little bit and Garmoy no will
identify with this. One of them was like they they
wanted it to be a more like Girl from the
Hood version of the character. And I was like, I
just don't see it that way, and they were like,
well then you.
Speaker 7 (23:08):
Don't ask me want Yeah, wow exactly. But the other one,
I'm not really sure what happened, but yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
So I so I met with Shanda. I sat down
and I loved her immediately. I just loved her immediately.
I was like, oh, she's so lovely, and Betsy was
so lovely, and she said to me, you know, if
this goes well, this could be like a seven year commitment,
and I was like, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I just thought, no way that's gonna happen.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
She's barely getting out the air as a lead. Like,
let's let's take it one day to go down. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
But I fell in love with her, and then of
course I was like, I'll read. I'll read a hundred
times if you want me to. And then I did
read about one hundred times. My friend Colleen Bassis was
my acting coach for the audition, but she's still an
acting coach, so people seek her out if you're looking.
Speaker 7 (23:59):
And so I got to the fine screen tests. I
think it was down to me and two other actresses.
Two or three other actresses.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
But I remember like the intensity around it because we
all knew these opportunities were few and far between, And
when I got the call that it was mine, I
just was just be I couldn't. I felt like the
luckiest human being on the planet, just so blessed I was,
you know, I felt so lucky.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
You know what, I knew it was going to be well,
I never knew.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I didn't know it was going to be a hit
until the middle of second season when we were out
in public and all of a sudden, women were throwing
themselves at Tony Goldwin and I was like, what the
fuck is happening. But before that, your dad, Earl said
something like I know when I'm making this up in
my head, but it was something like I said, say,
the Last Dance was going to be the biggest thing ever,
(24:48):
and I'm saying it right here, right now, Scandal is
going to be huge.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Like Earl's got the crystal he knows.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
And by the way, like.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
You know, my dad, it's so funny because my dad
is such a dreamer. He's like he really sees beyond
the possibilities of what's real and so like that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know, he He.
Speaker 7 (25:09):
Gave me permission to dream big in my life.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
You know, I always feel like my mother is the
one who taught me how to be practical and work ethic,
But my dad gave me that ability to be the
big dreamer. And he really he saw the potential of.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
This show from the beginning, which I'm so great, but.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
He and he would whenever we would encounter your parents,
they were the biggest fans of the show. They were
the biggest I mean, I'll stay right here with you guys.
Your dad was like and your mom were like, we
love Huck and give me so much love. And I
was like, oh my god. But it was sincere and honest.
(25:47):
It wasn't like, you know, like, oh, it's Carrie's parents saying, yeah,
we love the show, you were great on it. They
were truly like, no, sit down for a second with me,
and let's talk about hook.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Because around with their scandal like raincoats. Yes, they wear
their set jacket.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
They still wear them. You know, my dad has a
bit of an obsession with Scott Pully. I think I
told you he's in love. My father's in love it.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
One day we were in the car, my parents were
visiting set as always, and and I was driving them
home from set and my little green Prius and.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I remember you in that prich.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
And my dad super quiet on the ride, and all
of a sudden he says.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
You know what, I think that it was Scott Foley's
nose that Michael Jackson was going for.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
How random. I love it.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
My dad thinks about that, Yeah, like that heat that
like Scott Pully has the epitome of a gorgeous.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Anglican male Mys.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
The richest, you know, talented pop star in the world.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
Was like, I could pick any nose in the world,
it would.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Be Scott fully And I was like, Dad, you're obsessing
about Scott Poley's nose on the way home.
Speaker 7 (27:00):
So funny.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
We'll be right back, guys.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
Wait.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
In one oh seven is the episode where Carrie found
out that gear Moo Diaz liked boys. Yes, episode, I'll
never forget it because she went the whole first season
not knowing.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I hate that. I hate that because I don't want
you to have one moment of feeling like, well, why
don't you tell me?
Speaker 7 (27:28):
You know?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
No, I'm just such you know what it is, because
I you know, I put my head in the sand
with the work. I'm just like so in the work,
and I wasn't as into the gossip, which I also
was a little strategic because I was like, I don't
want to be in the gossip.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
I kind of want to be Switzerland when it comes
to the castle.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
So but I remember turning to you and saying like, so, Gearmo,
do you have a girlfriend?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And I was like, kind of, I don't remember.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
He's so sexy and he's so funny and he's so
smart and I'm taken, but boy, like I.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
Set him up if he's up with somebody, he's so hot.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Oh you know what?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Also, you you were more quiet for season. I mean
it's not only like Carrie was not, you know, strategic.
That was a great plan, but Germo also wasn't. Like
the only reason I knew was because I was like,
where do you live? And he was like close to
the parade and I was like what parade are you
talking about?
Speaker 7 (28:24):
Patrick?
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Oh, I'll never forget.
Speaker 7 (28:29):
It was that war seeky way of coming out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Do you think, well, Santa Monica, like, you know, it's great,
Like that's like I he either said him right by
the crators.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
So I go to the parate and I was like
what parade are we talking?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
But also you guys got to remember I was born
in the eighties, Like I was, you know, a teenager
in my twenties during a time where this ship wasn't
like people were like all great, last time you and
your boyfriend over, Like I was still very like guarded
and like, I don't know if this is going to change.
Speaker 7 (28:56):
Perceptions, play all the roles.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
If people know yes, yes, yes, it was.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Such a trailblazer, and that such a trailblazer, so much.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Like being out letting people not and also like just saying, actually,
now that I think about it, I think that you
were really inspiring for me in terms of like when
I got to a place where I was like, Okay,
I'm not going to deny my personal.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
Life, but I also don't need to plaster.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
It everywhere like you were. Just I'm living my life
for me. I'm in my truth for me. I'm not
going to hide who I am, and I'm still going
to play all the roles like I'm.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
Gonna I'm gonna be with women, I'm gonna be with men.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I'm going to be all of who I am and
as an artist and also be in my truth as
a human so that means oh.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I remember running home and being like, oh, is he
out publicly? Because even at the beginning of Scandal, I
feel like actors, I think even a lot has changed
in the last ten years.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Like one, and I hope it continues to do so.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
But I can remember in the beginning of Scandal me
being like, I don't know if he's like out publicly,
because I think that that's like a choice that actors
make and whether or not they do talk about it
or don't, and it's like a whole fucking thing. And
I remember going home and being like, Oh, no, he's
like really like out publicly. He's been in like gay
magazines and like all this.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
I remember the time I had done a movie called
Stonewall about the Stonewall Riots in sixty nine, and I
was the lead. I was a drag queen in it,
and I remember my managers saying, you have to make
a choice. Are you you're gonna be doing a lot
of press. Are you gonna say you're gay? We think
you shouldn't say you're gay, Or are you gonna say
you're you're straight? You know what I mean? And I
had to make it and I was like, there's no
(30:32):
way I'm freaking lying. And from that point on, I
was like, I don't care, Like this is who I am.
If people don't want to work with me, then fine,
then I don't want to work with them either. But
I was like, I cannot be that person who's.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
Like living a lie.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh, there's no way. I'm too anxious for that shit.
I was like, oh my.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Gosh, when I'm going back and watching these episodes, which honestly, Carrie,
you like not being my friend and one of the
great loves of my life, I cannot believe the acting
you did in this part. Do you remember, like before
the pilot, building all these things like her walk and
her like neck tilt of like and I just can't
(31:09):
believe the person you built in your preparation for her?
Did you coach? Was someone build her from the outside in?
Was it you're fitting with Lynn Paolo?
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Like?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
How? Or did she? Was it a slow burn?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Like?
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I like, how did she come to be?
Speaker 7 (31:23):
No? It was actually really interesting. I remember I remember.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Working with Colleen on the audition, and I felt like,
you know a lot of times when you are just
meeting material for me, the first work for that first
hour was like, what do I know about this?
Speaker 7 (31:39):
Where do I connect with her? How do I reveal
myself in this? Right?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Like how do I find the places where she and
I meet? And then let the rest of it kind
of fall away. So it was a lot of bringing
myself to it. But also that point in my career
I had developed sort of red carpet Carrie who was
a version of me, but it was like the version
of me that I was learning to cultivate that or
fancy outfits and could go to all these premieres of
(32:03):
all these movies I was in, and so she was
like a larger than life version of me who stood
differently and walked differently, and in a lot of ways,
Olivia Pope was like her presentation of self in the
world was a little bit red carpet carry and then
her her inner messy emotional life was more my inner,
messy emotional life. So that was kind of the job
in the pilot. But then I remember meeting with Susan
Batson again. I trained with with Susan Batson and with
(32:26):
Colleen Barry. Barry at the time maybe no basis to
her married name is basis, but training with both of
them for the audition, and I remember saying to Susan
after I got it, how do I do this for
all these episodes now? Because I don't want to just
be myself on TV, Like I have to figure out
how to be specific about where she ends, and I
(32:47):
begin I felt like I didn't have to be that
specific in the pilot. I was willing to be really
messy about that, but I was like, if I don't
start to have some delineation about where.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
She ends ten months of the year, being like, when
I go back to myself, you know, how do I
return to who I am? So the clothes helped a lot.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
The shoes, like, I don't know if you guys remember,
but I would roll up I set at crew call
and be in sweatpants, but I always had to have
my foot on your Earharal, Yeah, yeah, I remember you.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Never ever ever. First of all, opposite, I'm a hack.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I didn't wear my shoes as long as humanly possible,
which actually, you know what, no fuck that, I'm not
a hack. I've heard that Viola Davis does all of
her Bessie barefoot or in ugs, because.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
There's no way, so do I. You got either, Harry.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And Olivia Pope was like, I never saw you in
rehearsal without your shoes on.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
No, I felt like they were really important for how
to stand and how to walk.
Speaker 7 (33:43):
And then I figured out how to be her barefoot
in my apartment. But but I always had to come.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
If I was going to be in shoes in the scene,
I had to be in her shoes, otherwise I wouldn't
know where in the room I would be. I just
think that was sort of a real way into her
and seems we're a huge part of it, Lynn Poolow, because.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
I felt like that was her armor.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
The way you know her her expertise was storytelling and
narrative and how people present in the world. So I
knew that how she presented in the world had to
be really specific, really on point, elegant, smart. So yeah,
all that stuff really really really really helped. And then
giving over to the language, you know, in that like
(34:23):
David Mammott way and that Shanna Reim's way, like just
giving over to the language. She was there. She was
in the words. I don't speak like that, but she
she's in the words.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
And when something is written really well, it flows out
of your mouth so easily. It's so satisfying. It's like
delicious to say the words.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Right, this chemistry between you and Tony Goldwyn is the
stupidest shit I've ever seen in my life. Like, I'm
so wildly uncomfortable. I can't believe how good it is.
I can't believe I'll steamy it is. I love you
both as people and individuals. I can't even believe what
was happening. Yeah, and I'm curious, Like in the pilot,
you guys make out in the corner beneath like a
(35:02):
curtain and then in to get away from the cameras,
and then in this episode the finale, again you look
up and you have a kiss, and he says to
jog your memory, Like, if I resign, or if I
get arrested, you know whatever, for sleeping with Amanda Tann
or whatever, at least I can be a normal person.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
I can be with you and you like kiss.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
But oh we've I also in season two, which German
and I are were ahead, you know, because we're such
prepared people and.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Learning beast number one. We just watched the episode.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I also just watched the episode where you and he
were like screwing in the break room that has all
the core the flights.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
I remember that I was wearing a green yes, yeah, Christening.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
It was your Christening outfit. It was sort of like
nineteen sixties.
Speaker 7 (35:47):
It was a very beautiful Jackie, oh joh, exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
What tell me about this chemistry thing? Tell me about
you and Tony? Did you ever talk about it or
were you just like it's bigger than both of us
and thank god because it made everyone want to watch
the show.
Speaker 7 (36:05):
It's such a good question.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
I don't think we talked about it because I don't
think we knew until audiences were watching it. We were
just like two actors doing our job. It wasn't like
the first test, no, you know what the maybe I
need to be honest. That is how we felt on set.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
But when we camera tested, when we did hair and
makeup tests.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
For the show camera testing.
Speaker 7 (36:26):
We did hair and makeup.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, we all did.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I remember that. I remember that. I remember that.
Speaker 7 (36:30):
I remember like doing the thing you walk on camera.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
You're in the clothes and with the hair, and then
Tony comes in and we're walking together, and I remember
Shanda and Betsy freaking out at the monitors and I
was like, what's happening? And they were like, you guys
are just magic together, and we were like, okay, So
we had this sense, but I knew Tony. So Tony
and I had both done a lot of work with
this organization called the Creative Coalition, which is a political
(36:57):
advocacy organization ironically, and he was co president at the time,
and so my I hadn't ever worked with Tony as
an actor, but our interactions as human beings had been
walking up and down the halls of Congress and at
the White House talking to people about arts funding and
arts for the humanity and funding for the humanities, and
(37:17):
so had we had this like weirdly DC context for
each other, and we had a great deal of respect
for each other as like thinking human beings and as
politically minded individuals, and so you know, I remember saying
to Shonda like, who's going to be the president?
Speaker 7 (37:32):
On the show? Like who's going to be the president?
And I learned at some like CIA.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
It was either at their Oscar party or their any party,
and Tony's manager was there and he came up to
me and he was like, Tony's doing it.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
And I was like yes, just because I knew how
smart he.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Was and he felt, and Shanda said to me she
felt like he was the right person because he had
directed at Gray's early on.
Speaker 7 (37:55):
And she knew that whoever was going to play the
president was somebody.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Who had to have executive like, somebody who felt like
they could tell people what to do, like they could
boss people around and have like, you know, real intelligence
and leadership. And she had seen that in him as
a director. So I had a lot of respect for him.
I loved him already as a person, and we just
hoped it worked. We just we hoped it worked.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
And you can't really plan that stuff, right, I mean,
you can't plan that your chemistry is going to work
on camera. Really, no, necessarily, right.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
I will say for me I and this is I'm
a little bit of a chemistry slut, like I am. I.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
I don't want to say it, but you're good at it.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
I never worry about having chemistry with the only time
I can't have chemistry with an actor is if that
actor has decided that they don't want.
Speaker 7 (38:45):
To have chemistry with me.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
And I've been in those situations, like walking into an
audition where it's like down to me and I one
other girl and the lead actor has clearly wants the
other girl, and I'm.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Like, well, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Here's when I don't have chemistry if they if I
don't like their smell. Like I'm just such a pheromone person.
And I have been teamed up. I've been like, I've
had so many love interests on different things, and sometimes
I'm just like ew, like I don't know this, like
and I am acting, and I'm just like acting so
(39:19):
much because I have what I call the ick for
like the person, like I just like have this like
I don't want to.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
But then I'm like, okay, it's a paycheck, it's a peck,
like let's do this.
Speaker 7 (39:27):
Yeah, that's so so there. Here's the other thing that
and you we would have to.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Sorry you say chemistry, slunt, What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (39:33):
It means like that when it comes to finding ways
to love a character, for my for me to feel
like my character really loves or likes another character, I
don't find that hard. And I don't know if that's
the Aquarius in me that like, I just really like
people and I see the good in people.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
And I like it. I like a lot of different
kinds of people, and so I don't I don't usually
have a hard time.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
In the history of Skittle, there's maybe been one actor
where I was like, oh shit, let's.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Not I have guesses.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
Yes, most of the love interests are like, you know,
there are guys that I get along with, and so
you're like.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
I can figure this out.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Like it's sort of this idea of like there's somebody
for everybody. Everybody's lovable in some way. Can you look
for the thing that's like that person's not for me, right, Like,
not everybody's for me, am I really, but for their.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Character you can fall in love with something in them
that you can get to.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And also, your chemistry was not only great with love
interest people, but it was also great with like Quinn
and with Huck and.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Oh my god, Abby this friendship.
Speaker 5 (40:38):
Yeah yeah, and also Scott Foley right like that it
was sod are you team fits or you.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Know, like that O Lake or Olan.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
Yeah, that's very I think that that also both of
those guys, by the way, are I'm so lucky to
have been able to have those two guys just because
they're both.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
They're the best, dude.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
But that's such a great example, right because they're also
so different, like Scotty and Tony Goldwyn.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
You could not find completely different different But.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
I was like, I'll figure this out with these guys
and their characters. I will say, and we should ask
Tony's permission before we if whether they should stay in
or not. But one of the amazing things that happened though,
was I think it was during season two Tony said
something we were in like one of our canoodling bedroom
scenes in Olivia Pope's.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
Bed, and he said something we were talking.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
About like life and love and marriage, just like talking,
and he said something that I said, Oh, that's so
interesting because my therapist said something like that to me
last week. And he looked at me and he said,
who's your therapist That we had the same street.
Speaker 7 (41:43):
Oh my god for years?
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Oh my god, the odds of.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
That he wasn't currently seeing this person I still was.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
And did you mention it to the therapist?
Speaker 7 (41:58):
My therapist was like yeah, I know, Like he was like,
this is not.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
A surprise to me, but of course he will last,
will last.
Speaker 7 (42:06):
He couldn't have told me yeah, but isn't that great?
Speaker 5 (42:09):
And it also so much because I had I felt like,
you know, Tony and I had such great boundaries, boundaries
with each other, Like we were able to be in
this like incredibly romantic space, but our boundaries as adult,
as like responsible human beings were very clear.
Speaker 7 (42:25):
I have the ultimate respect for his wife. He's the
ultimate respect for my husband.
Speaker 5 (42:28):
Like, yes, we there was never any despite the tabloids,
there was never any messy between he and I. We
were like really responsible, accountable grown ups, you know, respectful
of each other and each other's lives while still like
taking those deep risks as actors.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
And also what a scary thing to be.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Like most people, if you get paired up as a
love interest in a movie or something like the thing
is over in three months or whatever. But for you
to have a love interest that's seven years long, Yeah,
that's insane.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
I guess like that.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
In sat my husband Tony Goldwan is the person in
my life who I've made out the longest because.
Speaker 7 (43:07):
The boyfriend I was with seven years, four or five years. Yeah,
Tony after gold is the guy that I, you know, kissed.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
It's so weird, so weird, whyl weird, so weird.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
This is the last episode in this season and the
last episode I guess of season one of Unpacking the toolbox.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
This podcast Untagging the tool Box so cute because of
you guys in your tool.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
So there's this, like I think the winning scene of
this episode is so we had mentioned you and fits
sort of kiss and you're like you look up and
you're like cameras and he's like, I don't give a
ship and you guys kiss anyway romantic because guess what
if I go to jail or I resign, I can
be whoever I want to be and I can marry you.
And then you see Olivia sort of make the decision like,
(44:00):
oh hell no, this isn't gonna happen. So you go
to Melly and you two have Bellamy's like first big scene.
At this time, Bellamy is not.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
A serious.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
And the scene is like, you didn't do your job,
girl get in you.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Let that girl, Amanda Tanner get in his pants. I'm
doing I'm working my fucking ass. Off is the face
and the wife and this that and the other thing,
and you fucked up. You stopped being his mistress and
you let him get away and this is all your
fault that he wants to resign. And this is really
where we see Bellamy step into Melly and from that scene,
(44:35):
you go and arrange a with with the Fits, not
even having a say in it. You arrange a interview
on national television where she says that was me on
the sex stright and so I'm so embarrassed. This is
how Olivia and her planned together, working together to spin it,
(44:57):
which we're seeing the beginning of how we ended the
series with you and Melo together here.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
Anything that you're doing this it's so crazy.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
So you two start working together and be this political animal,
or you decide that Fitz is not resigning. It was
you on the sex tape, but we're going to lie
and say it was Mellie in the fifth and then
she's going to fake being pregnant. So by the end
of this series, the two of them have to go
off quickly and like have sex and.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Make a baby. But it's the beginning of the Melli
Olivia like when they work together, it's like, holy shit.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
And we learned that Olivia is like, oh hell no,
I don't want to settle down and be normal. I mean,
one of your memorable lines is being normal is overrated.
In this episode, it's the first time you see Olivia
and you're like, oh wow, she and Another memorable line
in this episode is when Cyrus says, some men aren't
meant to be happy, They're meant to be great. And
I think that sort of connected to Olivia as well,
(45:52):
because I think she felt that way too, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, yeah, she says, don't go be the man I
voted for, Yes, but all of us are like, you
mean the man that you the election for it, Okay,
I voted for him, But the.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Fact that you that you chose not to settle down
with fits that Olivia chose not to go that route. So,
I mean speaks volumes to who Olivia was right, she
knew her life was beyond that, Like she didn't want that.
She was like, oh wait a minute, wait wait, no, no, no, no,
I'm good. I'm good being the most powerful woman in
DC right now. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 7 (46:26):
So wild.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
The show figured out what it was while it was happening, Like,
it wasn't predestined that Melly would be Melly, you know, so,
can you talk to us quickly about like when you
realize that so much of this show was going to
be relationships between you and Jake and fits, and that
Melly was going to be like a very big part
(46:48):
of that.
Speaker 7 (46:49):
Yeah, I don't. It's so hard. I don't remember having
a lot of perspective about what the show is about
while we were doing it.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
It was so lame a moment, like we were just
on this I mean, we were on this rocket ship.
I remember Josh Molina seeing the second episode during lunch,
the second or third episode during lunch while we were
filming in that room. We would sometimes get upstairs where
we had table reads, and he turned to me and
he was like, you can carry a show. And like
(47:18):
coming from Josh Molena who was like I watched all
through college on West Wing and was like obsessed with.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
You were so political that the show.
Speaker 7 (47:27):
Yes, it was the show I had both Colleen and
our friend Jody.
Speaker 5 (47:30):
We used to get together and cook recipes from the Moose,
would cook book and watch West Wing every week. But
we like so when he said that, I was like,
I just remember being like, oh my god, oh my god,
oh my god.
Speaker 7 (47:39):
I hope he's right.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
And then I remember you also because I didn't know
I had mostly done movies, but I remember sitting in
the hair makeup tail and Katie you were like episode
three and I was like, what about it? And you
were like the script is really good, and I was like, okay.
You're like, well, that's when you know if you have
a show or not.
Speaker 7 (47:56):
And I was like, oh really, oh.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Goshi Katie out take you out kidding?
Speaker 4 (48:01):
Well, it's easy to make too.
Speaker 7 (48:03):
You were like things fall apart at episode three.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
Yeah, You're like episode three is when you really have
to know whether you can make a show. And I
was like, oh, that's exciting because I think this episode's
pretty good. I just was so green, you guys, I
didn't know anything.
Speaker 7 (48:16):
I didn't know anything.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
You're calling us to do backstories like I don't think
anyone does that, but what.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
I mean they do in movies, the business of it,
the business of it, I was so green about, and
like the TV of it I was so green about.
Speaker 7 (48:31):
So I wasn't green as a as an actor. Like
as an.
Speaker 5 (48:34):
Actor, I was so invested and felt like I was
just like you know, hog and mud like so doing
everything I wanted to be doing. But I didn't know
what it meant. I didn't know what the marketing meant.
I didn't I just you know, I just g was
the moment to moment.
Speaker 7 (48:50):
I just wanted to be a.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah, and it speaks it's it's like, it's about the work, right.
It sounds like sort of corny and cliche, but it's
it's about the work. If the work is good, everything
else that we have no control over, right, that that'll
either fall into Blazer or it won't.
Speaker 5 (49:05):
And it did, scandal, and yes, yes, yes, And what
I what I'm really proud of sitting here right now
in this moment is also that it was about the
process and the people. Because I remember so much more
about your first house that you bought, Katie. I remember
(49:27):
so much more about your conversations about going back home
in New York and what that was like, and like
are the reveal of the clothing and the sax windows
and your parents waving at us through the window.
Speaker 4 (49:38):
I'll never forget it.
Speaker 7 (49:39):
I'll never forget.
Speaker 5 (49:40):
That these little details I remember more than any episode
of the show we ever shot, because I am.
Speaker 7 (49:47):
So invested in you as people.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
I was invested in our like we were on this
rocket ship and we couldn't control like Mars and the
comets and the stars, and like we didn't, but on ship,
we had each other.
Speaker 7 (50:01):
And I'm really proud of how we did that.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
It really all stems from you, Carrie, I'm serious. And
the other thing about all of this pressure and everything
about being the first black woman in forty years to
be on a show, I remember for one second, like
I don't know if you ever felt this, or maybe
I put this in my head that you said this,
and I remember you being like, this has to succeed,
Like what would have happened had it not?
Speaker 7 (50:23):
Yeah, I knew, I knew we failed. It would be
another forty years.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
But instead, because we didn't fail, we got to have
How to get Away, and we got to.
Speaker 7 (50:32):
Have Brianka Chopra and her show.
Speaker 5 (50:34):
We got to have all these women of color leading
network shows Station nineteen, Like, we got to have this
world where women of color were number ones on the
clus sheet and it was no longer.
Speaker 7 (50:44):
A big quote unquote risk risk.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
Anyway, I love you guys so much.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
I can't tell you how fun this first season of
Unpacking the Toolboxes.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Uh, such a freaking blast.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
It's been such a blast.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
I hope I hope we get to do like listen,
like every single season. I hope we do all seven seasons.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
And that's up to you alls, Like, yeah, you guys
like it tell your friends, and we'll give you more life.
We'll bring you more behind the scenes hot goss from
We're going to bring all the guests more superstars.
Speaker 7 (51:25):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Peace.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
Hopefully the next episode up is two to oh one,
White Hats Off, the premiere of the second season. But
come on, you guys, give me a fucking break. The
first season, we brought to you Shonda Rhymes. We brought
to you Tony Golden, We brought to you Lives of Wheel.
We brought you carry Wash, carry.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Washing, So stick with us.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Please tell your friends this is and also because as
per usual, I just want to hang out.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
We Willy Willy Diaz.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
All, Oh my god, I love you so much. Hi everyone,
this is Willy Dia sign off.
Speaker 4 (52:02):
Goodbye Gladiator, Bye Gladiators. We's on the albies.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alcea, Lauren Homan,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
Unpacking the Toolboxes, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with Higheart, Radioshas and.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Katie Hiji Hi kick.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
A curly Curly.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
My second grade teacher used to always missus kaylish.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
She was so mean, but she.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Would always sing cocka cocade, My beautiful Katie. There's some
fucking song, remember I know?
Speaker 5 (00:53):
To you?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
She would sing it to you.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
To me when I entered the classroom. Is there any
childhood song where Guillermo is in Hell?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Remember Romper Room? I mean you're you're much younger than
I am. But there was no show called Room, and
the host and the beginning would look into this magical
mirror and be like, I see you Tommy and Katie
and John and Barbara and Ted and.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
Never like how about in New York when you go
into the trinket stores and it's like you can get
a little license plate or a little pencil with like
Katie's always on there, and and it's always in a
variation of spellings.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I might get k A T I E, which is
how I spell it. There might be K A T
y whatever. But you are just straight up funk.
Speaker 7 (01:41):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
They would be like, well, get a William william Is.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I'm like is William gear.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well William is like the English version of Ghirmo. So
my friends, you know, teachers and and my my friends
I couldn't pronounce, would call me Willie like Willie was
my name in school, like for w I L L
I E. Willy. Oh God, not Willy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I call you that from.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now, please. I like it. I actually like it. I'm
gonna get Willy tatted on me.
Speaker 8 (02:12):
I don't know if you can tell Willy Willy Willy
William that I have a lot of extra kick and
pep in my step today.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
Why Well, because we have the most exciting guest for
our listeners today.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I mean, we're obsessed with her.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
We're obsessed with her.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm obsessed with us.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I mean colearly, I mean, and there is no Scandal
without this person, without this person's performance. And honestly, she
changed my life in like every way, because well.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
That's just because that's the person she is.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I don't think anyone who has been lucky enough to
spend time with the one and only number one of
Scandal could say that she hadn't changed their life, because
that's just the magnitude of human that she is.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yes, she's fucking hilarious.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
That's the other thing, Like, Okay, she's an activist, she's
the best actress ever. She's a director, she's a producer.
She's been on Broadway, she's been in movies. She's led
the Democratic National Convention. She's ridiculously the accolades and the.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Respect and all of that, but girl is fucking Hirio.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
That's one of my favorite things about Carrie is remember
laughing with her on set, Like laughing with her was
so much fun, so so much fun. And look, I
wear my shirt that says queen, because Carrie is the queen.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
She's our queen. She's our queen of Scandal. And she
also was the best number one. Yes, I honestly think
this business has ever seen.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
She spoiled. She spoiled all of other TV shows that
I was a regular, which was like two others, But
she spoiled that for because the amount of you know,
class and and uh just a positiveness and respect that
I expected from my number ones after Scandal was like
(04:16):
beyond possible anything that I ever got.
Speaker 7 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, it was like you're no Kerry Washington, No, I
mean she and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Also how I behaved on set like I truly think
there was like speeches made. You know, obviously you guys
have heard on the podcast that well, we knew that
the end was coming our last season, so there were
so many goodbyes. But they kept saying over and over
again that everyone who was lucky enough to be on
this set could go off into their other sets, of
their other jobs, knowing that this type of family feel
(04:45):
and behavior was even possible, and that you could strive
for that and like exist, you should try to have
your cast and crew feel like this. But my god,
this woman, I mean she didn't. Every time she got
nominated for an award, which was all lot, she would
gather the entire crew.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Do you remember this ship?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Gather the entire crew and cast and just like make
the most beautiful speech about mouth that it was about
she did all the time, but how it was everyone
like that, She was nothing without the rest of us
and the crew and the grip. She knew everyone's names,
everyone's significant others' names, who was expecting children, who were
(05:27):
purchasing homes, who needed help like it was.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And she would also, Katie, do you remember she would
when we had background on set whenever we had background,
she would take a moment, either before we started shooting
or after, to say, Hey, I just want to take
a minute to say thank you to you guys. Without you, guys,
we cannot have you know, made scandal, So thank you
background actors.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
You always did that.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That's the first time I ever saw that on set.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
On a side, I've never seen that either. Remember the
lawn Chair episode.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
With them, Oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
With uh Courtney b Vance.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The background actors have to be screaming horrific racial slur
because it's about us shooting all this and and Carrie
is like saying, like, thank you so much for your performance.
Like I know this is not easy. I know this
is hard. This is taking so much energy and it's hard,
ugly things to say. And like, the girl is a leader.
(06:25):
I mean she's not going to run for president, but
my good god, if I wish she would, we would
be so lucky because it's.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Not only you can't do yeah, And not only do
we have Carrie Washington on this episode, we have a
plethora of other amazing guest actors. One of my favorites
is Matt Leshu, who plays Jimmy Chambers. Of course, George
Newburn is in this episode. He plays Charlie Freaking Kate Burton,
Dan Bucatinski.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Oh Brendon Hines as Diddyon Wallace, although in this episode
he does.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
She did in this episode.
Speaker 7 (06:56):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Bella me Young is listed as a guest star in
this episode because she's not a regular yet on the show.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Bellamy did not become a regular until we got picked
up for a second season. And by the way, we're
talking today about episode one oh seven called Grant for
the People, which aired on May seventeenth in twenty twelve.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It was written by the Shonda Rhimes, our other queen.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
There were two queens to make Scandal, Shan and Carry,
and it was directed by Roxanne Dawson.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
But at the time that we shot this.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Episode, we didn't know we were going to get a
second No, we had never aired an episode like yeah,
we shot it and no one had seen it. So
we were still in this like perfect little bubble where
we have no clue how the show was going to
be received.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Listen, what I love about our show and about our
cast is not not one year of our seven seasons
did I ever or any of us ever feel like
ah cool, I'll see you guys next year. We're picked up.
It was ever after every single season we were like,
oh please God, I hope we were fortunate enough to
get picked up. We never got cocky about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Never.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
We didn't take it for granted, no pun intended, but
grant for the people. The name of this episode, grant
taken for granted for the people. But yeah, we were
always just super humble and just like so great.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
That's because shit rolls down hill and Garry Garry.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Never, yes, never took the show, the job or characters
the writing for granted before she comes on, which were
obviously tickled tickled. Let me just tell you fill in
the rest, which is we we said Brendan Hines is
on this episode, but this.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Be it because he died.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
We have Brian Lesser, his Tom Troy Winbush's Morris Elcott,
love him so much. Shannon Cochrane is the Attorney General Sawyer.
Mark Harrolock is the Press secretary.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Marvin Colgate, you're fired, Marvin. That's my favorite.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
By get the fuck out.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
The synopsis is Olivia and the team rally after Quinn
finds Gideon Wallace dying in his apartment. Cyrus turns to
Olivia with annnouncement that affects fits his presidency.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And that's all we're giving you. It's a very short synopsis.
What did you think of my acting in this episode?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Katie? I love your acting, Katie, Katie, listen, can you
look my first page of notes, says Katie's performance in
the scene where she walks in on Gideon and with
the team is electric. It's thutt, roll and raw. It's
mesmerizing all the words like literally the stuff that I
(09:29):
really what are you doing to.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Me, Willy will Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Oh my god, I love that. I told you my
friends called me Willy like for eighteen years of my life.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Oh to talk about you were so.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So good in this episode, Katie, Like truly, I think
I think you thrive on. I think I'm the same too.
It was such a you had to play all this
raw like tragedy like death, and I think you thrive
and you just oh, you were just so real.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Love a high steak moment, people, I love a high
steak moment.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And the shivering you were shivering through your lines. Oh
my god. If you guys have not seen this episode,
you gotta watch it.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It's not just the finally episode of the first season,
and Quinn walks in and sees that giddy She's like, oh,
great bagel place down thing and like I got your
coffee and we fucked last night and like woo hoo.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
And then it's like, oh no, and the coffee.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Falls on the ground, which I remember being on a
Friday night and they said, you can only do this once.
I had to nail that coffee drop slip out of
my hand that spoils everywhere one time.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And then I see Giddey in just wow, scissors in
his neck that Billy Chambers put in there because he
was really close. So a couple of things I remember
is A that I had to nail that coffee drop
once and b I had to reshoot pulling the scissors
out of his neck.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No, do you remember.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
No, we shot the first season and I get a
call like months later saying you have to come in.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
And first of all, I was like, I'm fired.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Always every time we got that call, I'm fired.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
After not getting fired, they were like, you have to
come back in and shoot reshoot the Billy Chamber death scene,
and I was like, are you kidding? That was like
the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life,
like pulling the scissors out, screaming, crying, like trying to
reach the phone and realizing he's dead. And because the
first angle that they should the way they shot it
(11:33):
the first time around, it looked like I killed him?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Are you serious?
Speaker 4 (11:39):
This is my remembering of it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
We will be back with more after the break. Okay, guys,
without further a duty.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Without further a duty, we would like to present.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
We're the stupidest. We would like to present the one,
the only, the Queen, the i'm a, i'm a I'm getting.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Top, I'm drawer. She's top drawer.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
She's top drawer, She's tops of everything. She is our friend,
she is one of the loves of our lolliague.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
She is a colleague. She is well we would just
for real go over a cliff for this person.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yes, and also the biggest goofball just like us.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Yes. Here she is the one and only. Carry Hello,
you look so beautiful. We're so happy trying.
Speaker 7 (12:38):
To put on some concealer for you. Guys.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Pretty I mean, I mean I prefer the five am
four thirty am Monday morning.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
In makeup trailer of.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Kerrie Washington that I missings I do wake up and
I'm like, those were pretty special, insane times.
Speaker 7 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
I saw on social media you posted about being in
hair and makeup with Garama by your side when you
guys were doing some press.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
And it's true. It's just like you know what, I
was worried.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
I was worried that when we didn't have the hair
and makeup trailer, that we wouldn't all still be obsessed
with each other and in love with each other, you know,
because you like, we could just take for granted our
friendships because they were scheduled, but the fact that we're
all still so madly in love with each other, yes,
it's everything.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, But we were just saying before you came on
that that comes from you, and I mean, look, we're
all very special, yes, but you were How did you
know how to be a number one like that?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Like for real?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Do you think it was like you had worked on
so many things and had sort of always taken note
of how to be a leader or it's just innately
in you.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
So I'm having a little bit of a weird like
I feel like it's like a proud mommy because I
feel like when I met you, Katie Lose, you were
always asking me questions like this. But it wasn't for
like a national podcast. It wasn't for like right for
the press. Wasn't you ask people questions.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
Not a little bit less like Barbara Walters to it
and more just like I need to know number one?
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Oh yeah, but you're so it's so sweet because it's
still the essence of you, like you have figured out
a way to you know, stay, like you are just
a naturally curious, you know, inquisitive, adventurous, ambitious person. So
you have It's like, but it's no longer that five
am version of like I do this. It's like now
(14:47):
this very formal presentational version, which I.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Love, Thanks Carrie.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
So I have, I think the number one, number one
in the whole history of number ones in the business.
Speaker 7 (15:03):
And do people know what it means to be a
number one on the call sheet? Like do we have
to explain that?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Let's explain it.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
So every character is assigned a number on the call
sheet based on how important that character is perceived to
be on the show, and sometimes relative to the status
of the actor playing them. And so if you're number
one on the call sheet, you're like the most important
character according to the writers and the producers. So I
learned how to be a number one. I've had incredible
number ones I've worked with through the year. Julia Styles
(15:30):
is an amazing number one. Forrest Whitker is an incredible
number one. But hands down, the award for number one
number one goes to Jamie Fox.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
He's a beast. He is.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
He not only like does his homework, is fully prepared,
is always happy to be there, really passionate and knows
everybody's name.
Speaker 7 (15:50):
He takes care of the background.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
He's grateful, he's humble, he works really hard. He's all
of those things. And you know, I worked with him
on Ray and then ten years later on Jay Go,
and so I got to see, like it really is
who he is. He's just like Wow, He's a leader.
He's a true leader and a generous leader. And he
loves his job, like he really he loves He gets
that we're lucky to do what we do, and he
(16:12):
never let a day go by without us all feeling that.
And so I think, really, I just spent all those
seasons on Scandal pretending to be Jamie Fox.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
We love it. We were talking earlier Carrie about how you,
either before we shot a scene or after, you would
take a moment to address the background actors and just
be like, thank you guys so much for being here.
We could not have done this scene without you, guys,
just the respect you showed background actors. And for someone
who started in background work, I did a ton of
(16:41):
background works. Oh my god, I didn't know that I
was in Green Card, I was, I was at I
did background work on student films, even hard and then little.
But but you know, it's rare that the lead actor
or even producers or directors, you know, unfortunately, treat background
actors with any sort of you know, I mean, you know,
(17:04):
the sure, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
But you are so important scenes.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Oh my gosh, can you imagine if we didn't have
those background actors in the White House, we're just like
a bunch of idiots in hallways, like.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, it's not so dumb. It's like you're making such
for ten yes, And how.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Many times have you watched something where the background totally
ruins the scene?
Speaker 7 (17:24):
Oh my god, I don't believe any of those people
are at a party. I don't believe any of those
people are, you know.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Walking like background, looking at the camera background, they're so vital.
Speaker 7 (17:34):
To the Yeah, very similitude.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, and you could tell on our show, you can
tell invested in what they're doing today.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Just to jog your memories about episode one oh seven,
which is like who is Quinn Perkins? Quinn pulls the
night scissors out of Gideon's throat and I there's the
scene where I don't remember deciding yeah, I'll jog your memory.
I'll jog your memory. Everyone's like, do we don't they
clean it up?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Do we don't? Right?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And you're like, we clean it up. But it was
the example of an oh pa. It wasn't so much
about character development. Maybe it was for other people, but
not for me as much as it was like an
ensemble theater piece of like do not drop your line,
especially this is a peace This is like everyone has
got one line, two lines, like and.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
It's keeping the ball where we got together on the
weekend to rehearse.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, yes, yes, see what is the one I'm talking about?
Speaker 5 (18:27):
Because because it was a play play, we all thought
it was a one act play.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
And I remember.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Betsy Beers being like, you guys did what our producer like, yeah,
we've never heard of that that's bananas.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
But we just it was a play.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
It was a one act play, and we were a
bunch of theater kids who had been lucky enough to
find ourselves on some screens, and so we got up
together on our own to rehearse.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
I think back to that.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
And just think we were so lucky that none of
us had done a ton of prime time at work
television show to know that we weren't supposed to do that.
Speaker 7 (19:04):
But we're so lucky what we didn't know because and
I think, but.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Before Scandal, the job I'd had before Scandal was a movie,
but the but right before it was a movie.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
But right before that.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
You were the star before Scandal. I wanted to ask
you that why TVs.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
I originated a role in David Mannett's play Race, and
to this day, I feel like one of the reasons
why God put me in that play was to figure
out how to do that mammot thing, like how to afrythm,
how to say the word as written no matter what,
how to get out of the way of the language.
(19:39):
Because I felt like I brought so much of that
with me to Scandal.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
The work ethic that you had on Scandal was to
me and I'm not one, but was like like being
an Olympic athlete, which is what you are when you
do Broadway, like when you do a race or you
do a Scandal and you're a number one, like you
are a machine. You can't get sick, you can't not
know your life like it's so everyone is, it's.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
You're there, Yeah, there's Harry.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Me and Katie were talking about earlier and in other
episodes that we've done, how you know we'd see you
in the hair makeup trailer. You'd be on set, but
you were always running lines, and Katie brought up you
were running lines sometimes for the next scene. They weren't
just mind hey, yeah next, they were like monologues. You'd
be like, let's go to the next scene, Let's go
to tomorrow scene. Like it was like you had to
(20:28):
do that shit non stop.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
I know everyone saw since Scandal when somebody up comes
up to me on a set and says like, I'm
really sorry.
Speaker 7 (20:34):
I know it's a lot today, like this is nothing, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Oh my gosh, a lot. When you got the Scandal script,
why television? Why this script? Why this part? And how
did you get it?
Speaker 5 (20:49):
So everybody knew about this script, Like every black woman
in Hollywood between the ages of like nine to ninety
nine audition.
Speaker 7 (20:59):
Everybody wanted it.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
We knew it was like a historic, once in a
lifetime kind of opportunity. I heard about it through the grapevine.
My manager, who you both know, Kathy, call me. She
was like, there's this new Shonda Rhyme show. It stars
a black woman.
Speaker 7 (21:13):
We feel like you're really right for it. But Shonda,
I think Shonda.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Said I was too young because the character was written
to be in their forties, which I'm in my forties now,
so at the time, it was like I might be
too young for it. But it felt when I read it,
I literally did that thing which sounds so cliche, but
I did that thing where I threw it across the
room at some point because I was like this, like
this was written for me, like nobody else to be
(21:39):
playing this role, agreed, But I also knew that like
there were forty other actresses who felt exactly the same whatever,
and like really amazing actresses who I admire and love
and peers of mind and people I looked up to,
and we all just read We all just you know,
read and at first I met with Shonda. Actually, because
I was a I had done a bunch of movies
and so my team had negotiated a meeting first. So
(22:03):
I went in and I remember getting off the elevator
and seeing this huge sign that said Shonda Land.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
And I was like, Oh, I don't know how this
is going to go.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Like this seems a lot.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Yeah, I was like, give up my citizenship and move
to somebody's land.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
And I was nervous. I was like, gosh, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
I had done a couple arcs on television, but I'd
obviously never been in a series. I've done two other
pilots that I got fired from. Really, yes, but so
I met with Shanda.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
For all the actors listening, my god, is that like
a hopeful Yeah.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
The two other pilots I did before Skindle, I was
fired and both.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Shows why because you were too talented or too beautiful?
Speaker 7 (22:44):
No, both shows wet, but they replaced me.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You know why, probably because they knew you were a
star and you were stealing in from the rest.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
No, it was a little bit and Garmoy no will
identify with this. One of them was like they they
wanted it to be a more like Girl from the
Hood version of the character. And I was like, I
just don't see it that way, and they were like,
well then you.
Speaker 7 (23:08):
Don't ask me want Yeah, wow exactly. But the other one,
I'm not really sure what happened, but yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
So I so I met with Shanda. I sat down
and I loved her immediately. I just loved her immediately.
I was like, oh, she's so lovely, and Betsy was
so lovely, and she said to me, you know, if
this goes well, this could be like a seven year commitment,
and I was like, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I just thought, no way that's gonna happen.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
She's barely getting out the air as a lead. Like,
let's let's take it one day to go down. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
But I fell in love with her, and then of
course I was like, I'll read. I'll read a hundred
times if you want me to. And then I did
read about one hundred times. My friend Colleen Bassis was
my acting coach for the audition, but she's still an
acting coach, so people seek her out if you're looking.
Speaker 7 (23:59):
And so I got to the fine screen tests. I
think it was down to me and two other actresses.
Two or three other actresses.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
But I remember like the intensity around it because we
all knew these opportunities were few and far between, And
when I got the call that it was mine, I
just was just be I couldn't. I felt like the
luckiest human being on the planet, just so blessed I was,
you know, I felt so lucky.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
You know what, I knew it was going to be well,
I never knew.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I didn't know it was going to be a hit
until the middle of second season when we were out
in public and all of a sudden, women were throwing
themselves at Tony Goldwin and I was like, what the
fuck is happening. But before that, your dad, Earl said
something like I know when I'm making this up in
my head, but it was something like I said, say,
the Last Dance was going to be the biggest thing ever,
(24:48):
and I'm saying it right here, right now, Scandal is
going to be huge.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Like Earl's got the crystal he knows.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
And by the way, like.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
You know, my dad, it's so funny because my dad
is such a dreamer. He's like he really sees beyond
the possibilities of what's real and so like that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know, he He.
Speaker 7 (25:09):
Gave me permission to dream big in my life.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
You know, I always feel like my mother is the
one who taught me how to be practical and work ethic,
But my dad gave me that ability to be the
big dreamer. And he really he saw the potential of.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
This show from the beginning, which I'm so great, but.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
He and he would whenever we would encounter your parents,
they were the biggest fans of the show. They were
the biggest I mean, I'll stay right here with you guys.
Your dad was like and your mom were like, we
love Huck and give me so much love. And I
was like, oh my god. But it was sincere and honest.
(25:47):
It wasn't like, you know, like, oh, it's Carrie's parents saying, yeah,
we love the show, you were great on it. They
were truly like, no, sit down for a second with me,
and let's talk about hook.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Because around with their scandal like raincoats. Yes, they wear
their set jacket.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
They still wear them. You know, my dad has a
bit of an obsession with Scott Pully. I think I
told you he's in love. My father's in love it.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
One day we were in the car, my parents were
visiting set as always, and and I was driving them
home from set and my little green Prius and.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I remember you in that prich.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
And my dad super quiet on the ride, and all
of a sudden he says.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
You know what, I think that it was Scott Foley's
nose that Michael Jackson was going for.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
How random. I love it.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
My dad thinks about that, Yeah, like that heat that
like Scott Pully has the epitome of a gorgeous.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Anglican male Mys.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
The richest, you know, talented pop star in the world.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
Was like, I could pick any nose in the world,
it would.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Be Scott fully And I was like, Dad, you're obsessing
about Scott Poley's nose on the way home.
Speaker 7 (27:00):
So funny.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
We'll be right back, guys.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
Wait.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
In one oh seven is the episode where Carrie found
out that gear Moo Diaz liked boys. Yes, episode, I'll
never forget it because she went the whole first season
not knowing.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I hate that. I hate that because I don't want
you to have one moment of feeling like, well, why
don't you tell me?
Speaker 7 (27:28):
You know?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
No, I'm just such you know what it is, because
I you know, I put my head in the sand
with the work. I'm just like so in the work,
and I wasn't as into the gossip, which I also
was a little strategic because I was like, I don't
want to be in the gossip.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
I kind of want to be Switzerland when it comes
to the castle.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
So but I remember turning to you and saying like, so, Gearmo,
do you have a girlfriend?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And I was like, kind of, I don't remember.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
He's so sexy and he's so funny and he's so
smart and I'm taken, but boy, like I.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
Set him up if he's up with somebody, he's so hot.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Oh you know what?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Also, you you were more quiet for season. I mean
it's not only like Carrie was not, you know, strategic.
That was a great plan, but Germo also wasn't. Like
the only reason I knew was because I was like,
where do you live? And he was like close to
the parade and I was like what parade are you
talking about?
Speaker 7 (28:24):
Patrick?
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Oh, I'll never forget.
Speaker 7 (28:29):
It was that war seeky way of coming out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Do you think, well, Santa Monica, like, you know, it's great,
Like that's like I he either said him right by
the crators.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
So I go to the parate and I was like
what parade are we talking?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
But also you guys got to remember I was born
in the eighties, Like I was, you know, a teenager
in my twenties during a time where this ship wasn't
like people were like all great, last time you and
your boyfriend over, Like I was still very like guarded
and like, I don't know if this is going to change.
Speaker 7 (28:56):
Perceptions, play all the roles.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
If people know yes, yes, yes, it was.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Such a trailblazer, and that such a trailblazer, so much.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Like being out letting people not and also like just saying, actually,
now that I think about it, I think that you
were really inspiring for me in terms of like when
I got to a place where I was like, Okay,
I'm not going to deny my personal.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
Life, but I also don't need to plaster.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
It everywhere like you were. Just I'm living my life
for me. I'm in my truth for me. I'm not
going to hide who I am, and I'm still going
to play all the roles like I'm.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
Gonna I'm gonna be with women, I'm gonna be with men.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I'm going to be all of who I am and
as an artist and also be in my truth as
a human so that means oh.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I remember running home and being like, oh, is he
out publicly? Because even at the beginning of Scandal, I
feel like actors, I think even a lot has changed
in the last ten years.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Like one, and I hope it continues to do so.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
But I can remember in the beginning of Scandal me
being like, I don't know if he's like out publicly,
because I think that that's like a choice that actors
make and whether or not they do talk about it
or don't, and it's like a whole fucking thing. And
I remember going home and being like, Oh, no, he's
like really like out publicly. He's been in like gay
magazines and like all this.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
I remember the time I had done a movie called
Stonewall about the Stonewall Riots in sixty nine, and I
was the lead. I was a drag queen in it,
and I remember my managers saying, you have to make
a choice. Are you you're gonna be doing a lot
of press. Are you gonna say you're gay? We think
you shouldn't say you're gay, Or are you gonna say
you're you're straight? You know what I mean? And I
had to make it and I was like, there's no
(30:32):
way I'm freaking lying. And from that point on, I
was like, I don't care, Like this is who I am.
If people don't want to work with me, then fine,
then I don't want to work with them either. But
I was like, I cannot be that person who's.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
Like living a lie.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh, there's no way. I'm too anxious for that shit.
I was like, oh my.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Gosh, when I'm going back and watching these episodes, which honestly, Carrie,
you like not being my friend and one of the
great loves of my life, I cannot believe the acting
you did in this part. Do you remember, like before
the pilot, building all these things like her walk and
her like neck tilt of like and I just can't
(31:09):
believe the person you built in your preparation for her?
Did you coach? Was someone build her from the outside in?
Was it you're fitting with Lynn Paolo?
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Like?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
How? Or did she? Was it a slow burn?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Like?
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I like, how did she come to be?
Speaker 7 (31:23):
No? It was actually really interesting. I remember I remember.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Working with Colleen on the audition, and I felt like,
you know a lot of times when you are just
meeting material for me, the first work for that first
hour was like, what do I know about this?
Speaker 7 (31:39):
Where do I connect with her? How do I reveal
myself in this? Right?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Like how do I find the places where she and
I meet? And then let the rest of it kind
of fall away. So it was a lot of bringing
myself to it. But also that point in my career
I had developed sort of red carpet Carrie who was
a version of me, but it was like the version
of me that I was learning to cultivate that or
fancy outfits and could go to all these premieres of
(32:03):
all these movies I was in, and so she was
like a larger than life version of me who stood
differently and walked differently, and in a lot of ways,
Olivia Pope was like her presentation of self in the
world was a little bit red carpet carry and then
her her inner messy emotional life was more my inner,
messy emotional life. So that was kind of the job
in the pilot. But then I remember meeting with Susan
Batson again. I trained with with Susan Batson and with
(32:26):
Colleen Barry. Barry at the time maybe no basis to
her married name is basis, but training with both of
them for the audition, and I remember saying to Susan
after I got it, how do I do this for
all these episodes now? Because I don't want to just
be myself on TV, Like I have to figure out
how to be specific about where she ends, and I
(32:47):
begin I felt like I didn't have to be that
specific in the pilot. I was willing to be really
messy about that, but I was like, if I don't
start to have some delineation about where.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
She ends ten months of the year, being like, when
I go back to myself, you know, how do I
return to who I am? So the clothes helped a lot.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
The shoes, like, I don't know if you guys remember,
but I would roll up I set at crew call
and be in sweatpants, but I always had to have
my foot on your Earharal, Yeah, yeah, I remember you.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Never ever ever. First of all, opposite, I'm a hack.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I didn't wear my shoes as long as humanly possible,
which actually, you know what, no fuck that, I'm not
a hack. I've heard that Viola Davis does all of
her Bessie barefoot or in ugs, because.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
There's no way, so do I. You got either, Harry.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And Olivia Pope was like, I never saw you in
rehearsal without your shoes on.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
No, I felt like they were really important for how
to stand and how to walk.
Speaker 7 (33:43):
And then I figured out how to be her barefoot
in my apartment. But but I always had to come.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
If I was going to be in shoes in the scene,
I had to be in her shoes, otherwise I wouldn't
know where in the room I would be. I just
think that was sort of a real way into her
and seems we're a huge part of it, Lynn Poolow, because.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
I felt like that was her armor.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
The way you know her her expertise was storytelling and
narrative and how people present in the world. So I
knew that how she presented in the world had to
be really specific, really on point, elegant, smart. So yeah,
all that stuff really really really really helped. And then
giving over to the language, you know, in that like
(34:23):
David Mammott way and that Shanna Reim's way, like just
giving over to the language. She was there. She was
in the words. I don't speak like that, but she
she's in the words.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
And when something is written really well, it flows out
of your mouth so easily. It's so satisfying. It's like
delicious to say the words.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Right, this chemistry between you and Tony Goldwyn is the
stupidest shit I've ever seen in my life. Like, I'm
so wildly uncomfortable. I can't believe how good it is.
I can't believe I'll steamy it is. I love you
both as people and individuals. I can't even believe what
was happening. Yeah, and I'm curious, Like in the pilot,
you guys make out in the corner beneath like a
(35:02):
curtain and then in to get away from the cameras,
and then in this episode the finale, again you look
up and you have a kiss, and he says to
jog your memory, Like, if I resign, or if I
get arrested, you know whatever, for sleeping with Amanda Tann
or whatever, at least I can be a normal person.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
I can be with you and you like kiss.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
But oh we've I also in season two, which German
and I are were ahead, you know, because we're such
prepared people and.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Learning beast number one. We just watched the episode.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I also just watched the episode where you and he
were like screwing in the break room that has all
the core the flights.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
I remember that I was wearing a green yes, yeah, Christening.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
It was your Christening outfit. It was sort of like
nineteen sixties.
Speaker 7 (35:47):
It was a very beautiful Jackie, oh joh, exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
What tell me about this chemistry thing? Tell me about
you and Tony? Did you ever talk about it or
were you just like it's bigger than both of us
and thank god because it made everyone want to watch
the show.
Speaker 7 (36:05):
It's such a good question.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
I don't think we talked about it because I don't
think we knew until audiences were watching it. We were
just like two actors doing our job. It wasn't like
the first test, no, you know what the maybe I
need to be honest. That is how we felt on set.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
But when we camera tested, when we did hair and
makeup tests.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
For the show camera testing.
Speaker 7 (36:26):
We did hair and makeup.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, we all did.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I remember that. I remember that. I remember that.
Speaker 7 (36:30):
I remember like doing the thing you walk on camera.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
You're in the clothes and with the hair, and then
Tony comes in and we're walking together, and I remember
Shanda and Betsy freaking out at the monitors and I
was like, what's happening? And they were like, you guys
are just magic together, and we were like, okay, So
we had this sense, but I knew Tony. So Tony
and I had both done a lot of work with
this organization called the Creative Coalition, which is a political
(36:57):
advocacy organization ironically, and he was co president at the time,
and so my I hadn't ever worked with Tony as
an actor, but our interactions as human beings had been
walking up and down the halls of Congress and at
the White House talking to people about arts funding and
arts for the humanity and funding for the humanities, and
(37:17):
so had we had this like weirdly DC context for
each other, and we had a great deal of respect
for each other as like thinking human beings and as
politically minded individuals, and so you know, I remember saying
to Shonda like, who's going to be the president?
Speaker 7 (37:32):
On the show? Like who's going to be the president?
And I learned at some like CIA.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
It was either at their Oscar party or their any party,
and Tony's manager was there and he came up to
me and he was like, Tony's doing it.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
And I was like yes, just because I knew how
smart he.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Was and he felt, and Shanda said to me she
felt like he was the right person because he had
directed at Gray's early on.
Speaker 7 (37:55):
And she knew that whoever was going to play the
president was somebody.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Who had to have executive like, somebody who felt like
they could tell people what to do, like they could
boss people around and have like, you know, real intelligence
and leadership. And she had seen that in him as
a director. So I had a lot of respect for him.
I loved him already as a person, and we just
hoped it worked. We just we hoped it worked.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
And you can't really plan that stuff, right, I mean,
you can't plan that your chemistry is going to work
on camera. Really, no, necessarily, right.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
I will say for me I and this is I'm
a little bit of a chemistry slut, like I am. I.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
I don't want to say it, but you're good at it.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
I never worry about having chemistry with the only time
I can't have chemistry with an actor is if that
actor has decided that they don't want.
Speaker 7 (38:45):
To have chemistry with me.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
And I've been in those situations, like walking into an
audition where it's like down to me and I one
other girl and the lead actor has clearly wants the
other girl, and I'm.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Like, well, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Here's when I don't have chemistry if they if I
don't like their smell. Like I'm just such a pheromone person.
And I have been teamed up. I've been like, I've
had so many love interests on different things, and sometimes
I'm just like ew, like I don't know this, like
and I am acting, and I'm just like acting so
(39:19):
much because I have what I call the ick for
like the person, like I just like have this like
I don't want to.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
But then I'm like, okay, it's a paycheck, it's a peck,
like let's do this.
Speaker 7 (39:27):
Yeah, that's so so there. Here's the other thing that
and you we would have to.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Sorry you say chemistry, slunt, What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (39:33):
It means like that when it comes to finding ways
to love a character, for my for me to feel
like my character really loves or likes another character, I
don't find that hard. And I don't know if that's
the Aquarius in me that like, I just really like
people and I see the good in people.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
And I like it. I like a lot of different
kinds of people, and so I don't I don't usually
have a hard time.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
In the history of Skittle, there's maybe been one actor
where I was like, oh shit, let's.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Not I have guesses.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
Yes, most of the love interests are like, you know,
there are guys that I get along with, and so
you're like.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
I can figure this out.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Like it's sort of this idea of like there's somebody
for everybody. Everybody's lovable in some way. Can you look
for the thing that's like that person's not for me, right, Like,
not everybody's for me, am I really, but for their.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Character you can fall in love with something in them
that you can get to.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And also, your chemistry was not only great with love
interest people, but it was also great with like Quinn
and with Huck and.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Oh my god, Abby this friendship.
Speaker 5 (40:38):
Yeah yeah, and also Scott Foley right like that it
was sod are you team fits or you.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Know, like that O Lake or Olan.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
Yeah, that's very I think that that also both of
those guys, by the way, are I'm so lucky to
have been able to have those two guys just because
they're both.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
They're the best, dude.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
But that's such a great example, right because they're also
so different, like Scotty and Tony Goldwyn.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
You could not find completely different different But.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
I was like, I'll figure this out with these guys
and their characters. I will say, and we should ask
Tony's permission before we if whether they should stay in
or not. But one of the amazing things that happened though,
was I think it was during season two Tony said
something we were in like one of our canoodling bedroom
scenes in Olivia Pope's.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
Bed, and he said something we were talking.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
About like life and love and marriage, just like talking,
and he said something that I said, Oh, that's so
interesting because my therapist said something like that to me
last week. And he looked at me and he said,
who's your therapist That we had the same street.
Speaker 7 (41:43):
Oh my god for years?
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Oh my god, the odds of.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
That he wasn't currently seeing this person I still was.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
And did you mention it to the therapist?
Speaker 7 (41:58):
My therapist was like yeah, I know, Like he was like,
this is not.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
A surprise to me, but of course he will last,
will last.
Speaker 7 (42:06):
He couldn't have told me yeah, but isn't that great?
Speaker 5 (42:09):
And it also so much because I had I felt like,
you know, Tony and I had such great boundaries, boundaries
with each other, Like we were able to be in
this like incredibly romantic space, but our boundaries as adult,
as like responsible human beings were very clear.
Speaker 7 (42:25):
I have the ultimate respect for his wife. He's the
ultimate respect for my husband.
Speaker 5 (42:28):
Like, yes, we there was never any despite the tabloids,
there was never any messy between he and I. We
were like really responsible, accountable grown ups, you know, respectful
of each other and each other's lives while still like
taking those deep risks as actors.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
And also what a scary thing to be.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Like most people, if you get paired up as a
love interest in a movie or something like the thing
is over in three months or whatever. But for you
to have a love interest that's seven years long, Yeah,
that's insane.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
I guess like that.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
In sat my husband Tony Goldwan is the person in
my life who I've made out the longest because.
Speaker 7 (43:07):
The boyfriend I was with seven years, four or five years. Yeah,
Tony after gold is the guy that I, you know, kissed.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
It's so weird, so weird, whyl weird, so weird.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
This is the last episode in this season and the
last episode I guess of season one of Unpacking the toolbox.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
This podcast Untagging the tool Box so cute because of
you guys in your tool.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
So there's this, like I think the winning scene of
this episode is so we had mentioned you and fits
sort of kiss and you're like you look up and
you're like cameras and he's like, I don't give a
ship and you guys kiss anyway romantic because guess what
if I go to jail or I resign, I can
be whoever I want to be and I can marry you.
And then you see Olivia sort of make the decision like,
(44:00):
oh hell no, this isn't gonna happen. So you go
to Melly and you two have Bellamy's like first big scene.
At this time, Bellamy is not.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
A serious.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
And the scene is like, you didn't do your job,
girl get in you.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Let that girl, Amanda Tanner get in his pants. I'm
doing I'm working my fucking ass. Off is the face
and the wife and this that and the other thing,
and you fucked up. You stopped being his mistress and
you let him get away and this is all your
fault that he wants to resign. And this is really
where we see Bellamy step into Melly and from that scene,
(44:35):
you go and arrange a with with the Fits, not
even having a say in it. You arrange a interview
on national television where she says that was me on
the sex stright and so I'm so embarrassed. This is
how Olivia and her planned together, working together to spin it,
(44:57):
which we're seeing the beginning of how we ended the
series with you and Melo together here.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
Anything that you're doing this it's so crazy.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
So you two start working together and be this political animal,
or you decide that Fitz is not resigning. It was
you on the sex tape, but we're going to lie
and say it was Mellie in the fifth and then
she's going to fake being pregnant. So by the end
of this series, the two of them have to go
off quickly and like have sex and.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Make a baby. But it's the beginning of the Melli
Olivia like when they work together, it's like, holy shit.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
And we learned that Olivia is like, oh hell no,
I don't want to settle down and be normal. I mean,
one of your memorable lines is being normal is overrated.
In this episode, it's the first time you see Olivia
and you're like, oh wow, she and Another memorable line
in this episode is when Cyrus says, some men aren't
meant to be happy, They're meant to be great. And
I think that sort of connected to Olivia as well,
(45:52):
because I think she felt that way too, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, yeah, she says, don't go be the man I
voted for, Yes, but all of us are like, you
mean the man that you the election for it, Okay,
I voted for him, But the.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Fact that you that you chose not to settle down
with fits that Olivia chose not to go that route. So,
I mean speaks volumes to who Olivia was right, she
knew her life was beyond that, Like she didn't want that.
She was like, oh wait a minute, wait wait, no, no, no, no,
I'm good. I'm good being the most powerful woman in
DC right now. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 7 (46:26):
So wild.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
The show figured out what it was while it was happening, Like,
it wasn't predestined that Melly would be Melly, you know, so,
can you talk to us quickly about like when you
realize that so much of this show was going to
be relationships between you and Jake and fits, and that
Melly was going to be like a very big part
(46:48):
of that.
Speaker 7 (46:49):
Yeah, I don't. It's so hard. I don't remember having
a lot of perspective about what the show is about
while we were doing it.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
It was so lame a moment, like we were just
on this I mean, we were on this rocket ship.
I remember Josh Molina seeing the second episode during lunch,
the second or third episode during lunch while we were
filming in that room. We would sometimes get upstairs where
we had table reads, and he turned to me and
he was like, you can carry a show. And like
(47:18):
coming from Josh Molena who was like I watched all
through college on West Wing and was like obsessed with.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
You were so political that the show.
Speaker 7 (47:27):
Yes, it was the show I had both Colleen and
our friend Jody.
Speaker 5 (47:30):
We used to get together and cook recipes from the Moose,
would cook book and watch West Wing every week. But
we like so when he said that, I was like,
I just remember being like, oh my god, oh my god,
oh my god.
Speaker 7 (47:39):
I hope he's right.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
And then I remember you also because I didn't know
I had mostly done movies, but I remember sitting in
the hair makeup tail and Katie you were like episode
three and I was like, what about it? And you
were like the script is really good, and I was like, okay.
You're like, well, that's when you know if you have
a show or not.
Speaker 7 (47:56):
And I was like, oh really, oh.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Goshi Katie out take you out kidding?
Speaker 4 (48:01):
Well, it's easy to make too.
Speaker 7 (48:03):
You were like things fall apart at episode three.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
Yeah, You're like episode three is when you really have
to know whether you can make a show. And I
was like, oh, that's exciting because I think this episode's
pretty good. I just was so green, you guys, I
didn't know anything.
Speaker 7 (48:16):
I didn't know anything.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
You're calling us to do backstories like I don't think
anyone does that, but what.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
I mean they do in movies, the business of it,
the business of it, I was so green about, and
like the TV of it I was so green about.
Speaker 7 (48:31):
So I wasn't green as a as an actor. Like
as an.
Speaker 5 (48:34):
Actor, I was so invested and felt like I was
just like you know, hog and mud like so doing
everything I wanted to be doing. But I didn't know
what it meant. I didn't know what the marketing meant.
I didn't I just you know, I just g was
the moment to moment.
Speaker 7 (48:50):
I just wanted to be a.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah, and it speaks it's it's like, it's about the work, right.
It sounds like sort of corny and cliche, but it's
it's about the work. If the work is good, everything
else that we have no control over, right, that that'll
either fall into Blazer or it won't.
Speaker 5 (49:05):
And it did, scandal, and yes, yes, yes, And what
I what I'm really proud of sitting here right now
in this moment is also that it was about the
process and the people. Because I remember so much more
about your first house that you bought, Katie. I remember
(49:27):
so much more about your conversations about going back home
in New York and what that was like, and like
are the reveal of the clothing and the sax windows
and your parents waving at us through the window.
Speaker 4 (49:38):
I'll never forget it.
Speaker 7 (49:39):
I'll never forget.
Speaker 5 (49:40):
That these little details I remember more than any episode
of the show we ever shot, because I am.
Speaker 7 (49:47):
So invested in you as people.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
I was invested in our like we were on this
rocket ship and we couldn't control like Mars and the
comets and the stars, and like we didn't, but on ship,
we had each other.
Speaker 7 (50:01):
And I'm really proud of how we did that.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
It really all stems from you, Carrie, I'm serious. And
the other thing about all of this pressure and everything
about being the first black woman in forty years to
be on a show, I remember for one second, like
I don't know if you ever felt this, or maybe
I put this in my head that you said this,
and I remember you being like, this has to succeed,
Like what would have happened had it not?
Speaker 7 (50:23):
Yeah, I knew, I knew we failed. It would be
another forty years.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
But instead, because we didn't fail, we got to have
How to get Away, and we got to.
Speaker 7 (50:32):
Have Brianka Chopra and her show.
Speaker 5 (50:34):
We got to have all these women of color leading
network shows Station nineteen, Like, we got to have this
world where women of color were number ones on the
clus sheet and it was no longer.
Speaker 7 (50:44):
A big quote unquote risk risk.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
Anyway, I love you guys so much.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
I can't tell you how fun this first season of
Unpacking the Toolboxes.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Uh, such a freaking blast.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
It's been such a blast.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
I hope I hope we get to do like listen,
like every single season. I hope we do all seven seasons.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
And that's up to you alls, Like, yeah, you guys
like it tell your friends, and we'll give you more life.
We'll bring you more behind the scenes hot goss from
We're going to bring all the guests more superstars.
Speaker 7 (51:25):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Peace.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
Hopefully the next episode up is two to oh one,
White Hats Off, the premiere of the second season. But
come on, you guys, give me a fucking break. The
first season, we brought to you Shonda Rhymes. We brought
to you Tony Golden, We brought to you Lives of Wheel.
We brought you carry Wash, carry.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Washing, So stick with us.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Please tell your friends this is and also because as
per usual, I just want to hang out.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
We Willy Willy Diaz.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
All, Oh my god, I love you so much. Hi everyone,
this is Willy Dia sign off.
Speaker 4 (52:02):
Goodbye Gladiator, Bye Gladiators. We's on the albies.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alcea, Lauren Homan,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
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