March 30, 2023 • 56 mins
Joshua Malina, our resident David Rosen and king of lawyer-speak is here to join Katie and Guillermo as they dive into life on set, prepping (or not prepping) before filming, and pranks on set. Josh messed with everyone on set except for Shonda Rhimes and Guillermo, and he explains exactly why. Then, Josh explains his casting process, and how he became a series regular. Plus, Katie & G break down some amazing quotes from the episode and realize that Katie is a terrible driver.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Unpacking the Toolboxes, a production of Shondoland Audio in partnership
with Iheartradiote. Do you like how unattractive I am? Like,
(00:35):
I'm a real chameleon? Are you fucking kidding me? Shut
the fuck up? No? No, Like me without makeup is impressive,
and me with makeup is I'm a fucking dream woman.
What do you want? Yo? How was the audition? It
was my first time ever using a teleprompter? Have you?
Oh really? Oh yeah, I've used teleprompters, but not for
(00:57):
scripted stuff, only for like host type thing. Well, when
i get like eight pages of monologues, now, I'm like, oh, guys,
especially if it's like da crap speaking of DA and
lawyerly speak, we have the fucking most mischievous guest today
coming on, and he's the best lawyer speak motherfucker actor
(01:19):
I've ever seen in my life. Oh yeah, can you
believe this motherfucker at how easy it can? I hate him?
I know, I know, and he and I'm drilling like
legal talk and making it feel like it just like
comes off the tongue. And also it takes me days
to prep that, and this ship came in like yesterday. Yeah,
it takes me days because I need to be confident,
(01:40):
like confident, ye, but this motherfucker, I mean you've said
this before. Oh my god, He'll look at that shit
in the makeup trader and time and it's easy. And
he's not even shaken. He can't be shook. He's well
because he could give a shit too. He's like, Oh,
I don't care, I don't care. I just want the page.
(02:00):
I mean, this is his middle name should be. I
just want to pay paycheck. Had you ever had auditions
where you have to like pick up sides or a script?
Oh the time? Are you kidding? All the time? Real?
When I first moved to LA I would have to
drive to my agency and there would be a basket
in the lobby if it was after hours, and they
(02:22):
would leave your script in a manilla envelope with your
name on it. Oh yeah, I remember that. At the
time of this recording, I would just also like to say,
this is the seventeenth year to the day anniversary when
I moved to last Oh, that's a long time. It's
a long time, Like I can't even believe it. But
I always remember getting off at Lax being like, what
(02:45):
did I just do? To blow up my life like
this renting a beater, piece of shit, fucked up car,
and I got on the four oh five and the
ten scariest drive of my entire life, and I had
a Thomas guy to get around. Some big ass nerd
created the Thomas Guide. I was like, don't even come
(03:06):
at me with this thick book of fucking coordinates, Like
what are you talking about how I used to try
to get a round audition? Oh? Hell no, I'm a
geographic dumb dumb. I'm a bad driver, like very bad,
which reminds me. Also, you and I, You and I
are cut, we have the same We shot the pilot
(03:27):
and it's raining, and you're in a you're so hot,
you're in a leather jacket and you're in a jeep
wrangler that has no top. Oh my god. Remember, and
you're like, can I follow you to get on the
one oh one? And I kept saying like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I got it, I got it, I got it. And
I see you in my rearview mirror, like following me,
and I don't know where I'm going, and I just
remember I keep pulling uee's and you're pulling UEI's and
(03:49):
it's s raining as shit. Yeah. I was like, it
would be worse if it was just me, girl. I
was impressed at all. I was like, do your thing,
take your time. Now. There are a few controversial players
that we have had on the podcast that we're going
to have on the podcast. Controversial players. This one is
a controversial player because he is a polarizing motherfucker. This
(04:10):
is the number one fucking polarizing. Like you either are
on board with his antics or you are afraid, which
makes you mad at him. Yeah, I fucking teeter talk.
I'm back and forth like I love him and I
laugh and I enjoy it, and then I'm like, I
cannot believe you freaking did that. And I'm so pissed
at him, Like I go back and forth. He's kind
(04:31):
of scared of you. I could feel that too, because
I'll go off on a motherfucker. Yeah. See, he never
fucked with you, no, yeah, yeah. And I feel like
it's because he was always a little bit like, oh,
you don't do that to Guermo, like you don't there,
he didn't do to you what he's done did to me,
or because I'm such a fucking easy target. But here's
the thing. He's the most talented dude without trying, which
(04:54):
is so frustrating. Yeah, like Josh Mullen is the smartest
person in the room, Oh yeah, but also a quick
win and a quick intelligence, Like I people ask me
a question and I have to be like, give me
twenty minutes to go try to understand the question and
think of what I'm gonna say. Sometimes, guys, we would
do cold reads of our scripts, and I would be
(05:14):
fucking mortified that they would find out in a cold read,
like how exactly dumb I am? But like I wouldn't
know how to pronounce a word, or there might be
like a turn of phrase or something that was like
a colloquialism. Same like quickly look at Quinn's lines to
make sure there wasn't something that would out how like
unintelligent I was. Because there were so many fucking smart
(05:35):
people in our cast, Like do you know that Bellamy
Young and Josh Willna went to Yale fucking Yale, dude,
like real kidding, And Shanda went to Dartmouth. Half the
writers or more were like journalists, perfect like unbelievable talent.
Do you carry went to GWS? Right? That's right? Obviously
(05:56):
She's a political animal and just ridiculously smart. Where did
you go, Katie, Well, I went to Tish School. You
you don't got to be smart to get in there. Well, listen,
it's not easy to get into No, you have to
have done well. But it has something to do with smarts.
For me, I just was good at school, and if
I wasn't going to get a great grade, I knew
(06:17):
how to do extra time in the teacher's room to
make them like me and give me an like I
was working that shit from jump. But guys, we have
teased one of the most controversial and polarizing guests to
have ever been on the Skin and Rewatch podcast and
on Scanal. I love him. I think he's so amazing.
(06:38):
And we are talking about episode two oh one called
White Hats Off, which aired on September twenty seventh of
twenty twelve, and it was written by Jenna Bands and
directed by our very own we love him so much,
Tom Verica. Whoa, whoa, We love you, Tom Verica. It
was guest starring Wendy Davis Is Kimberly, Mitchell Reese Rios
(06:58):
as reporter number one, did Norah Walcott as Reporter Number two,
Erica Schaefer as TV newscaster, j Jackson as local newscaster,
and then we have Jimmy Kimmel as himself, Jackson Hurst
as Congressman Jacob Shaw, Gillian Armanante as Moira, O'Donnell, Mara
Soden as Doctor Brown, and I wanted to add Shelley
Morrison as the judge who played Rosario in Will and Grace.
(07:19):
I mean, come on, this is the synopsis. This was
our first episode back. I mean, after we shot the
first seven episodes of the first season, we didn't know
for sure if we were going to get a second season, right,
We didn't know. Six months after Quinn's arrest, Olidia and
the OPA team are confident they'll win her case, as
David Rosen's evidence is mostly just Quinn's motive, her cheating
(07:40):
ex boyfriend, and the fact that she fled. The OPA
team helps a congressman navigate a sex tape scandal. As
Quinn's case begins to crumble around her, but Olivia refuses
to let Quinn be found guilty, probably because she and
Huck were the ones actually behind Quinn's new identity. I
remember literally spending all summer with people asking me if
(08:03):
I knew who Quinn Perkins was, And I was like no,
because because if the cliffhanger at the end of season
one is Olivia telling Quinn, do you want to tell
them who you are? Or you want me to tell you?
Tell them? Right? Yeah? Do you want to tell them
who you really are? Or should I should? I? Yeah?
So people held on to that for how long before
we came back? Well, this aired September twenty seventh, in
(08:27):
twenty twelve, and I think our last Scandal episode was
like May. So it was like the summer that I
got married. Okay. I have this memory of two hundred
and fifteen people going like, who are who are you?
Who is Quinn? Yeah? Who is Quinn? And I'm like,
I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, I hope I
have a job. I hope I have a job. And
(08:47):
probably the writers didn't fully know exactly which direction they
we're gonna go either, I would think, right, I mean
think they knew it? Yeah, I don't think they knew
at all. Every episode with Hollis Doyle until this point
he has seen eating or mentioning Gettysburger. Gettysburger. How good
does a burger sound right now, Fox, I would rush
(09:10):
a burger right now. Like, uh, I was watching Anthony
Bourdain last night and he's eating a cheeseburger at just
like a you know, one of those like stands outside
he was in, like I don't know, he was like
in Jamaica or somewhere, but it was just a greasy
cheeseburger and it looks so fucking good. I mean, come on,
(09:30):
oh god, I love it. There are three fucking continuity
errors in this episode. Photos of Elaine show that she's blonde,
but in Truth or Consequences, the actress playing Elane is
a brunette. A brunette. Oh this is the best. Yeah,
Jesse Tyler is not Adam Shapiro at this time. It's
some other dude that they took photos of and they
whoopsie doodle. Yeah, they didn't know Adam was going to
(09:51):
play play the role. Yeah. No. After Olivia and David
leave the court, the next scene shows the Monument of
Iwajima with the Statehouse in Washington omnument in the background.
But the Ewigima monument is not in DC. It's in Arlington.
That's messed up. Yeah, that's advertise. That's that's that's that
continuity that didn't happen. Were there any winning scenes from
(10:14):
this episode? Yes, and you're in it. Oh, scene where
you end up firing Olivia and she comes to see
you in jail, right, and your other attorney that you
hire is there, and Olivia's like, give me a moment, please,
and You're like, fine, give us a moment, and you're
their face off, you know, you and Olivia going at it,
and you stand up and we see Quinn's fury, like,
(10:38):
come out. You were so good. You were a fucking powerhouse.
And that's oh god, I thought I was horrible. Oh
I was gonna ask you, have you ever flipped out
like that? I love you've done that right? Oh yeah yeah,
well that scene where you flip out on Olivia, Man,
I fucking loved it. I was like, hell yeah to
say that. So that's I really think gar I really
(10:58):
think all of Josh's room scenes are fucking unbelievable. Oh
so good. That courtroom stuff is really really fun, fun
to watch. And and again we mentioned to do and
hard to fucking do. And can we say how much
I love how much we love a Gillian Armonante who
played your defense attorney. Oh, she's so great in this episode.
And I looked her up to and she she had
(11:19):
been in two epic movies. One was Dog Fight with
a Lily Taylor. We have you've ever seen that film?
And no great movie? I see nothing, I watch nothing,
I do nothing. And then she was in Girl Interrupted
with Winona Ryder. Yeah, Abby is into watching the sex
(11:40):
daye herself. I wrote there's the your ornamental not instrumental yes,
which is a big winning line from the FSA you
are ornamental, not You're ornamental not instrumental. Oh so good.
Oh my god, fits Olivia. It's so slow and they
(12:01):
say hello and high. I love that this whole time.
Huck and Olivia have the best poker face, like they're
the ones that Quinn and moved her to a whole
different state, right yes, and changed her identity and they
know this throughout the whole episode. And those two have
(12:22):
the best like poker face, like they're not letting anything
show and not until the end of the episode do
we know that all of Quinn Perkins is Huck and Olivia.
And Huck is like she took everything we gave her,
We're good to go, or something like that. Yo. It
made me also think, like what would I have done
in that situation. Would I have been like fuck, yeah,
(12:43):
I'm gonna do this, or what I would have you know,
like flipped out and ran outside of the littletel crying
like Yeah, I don't think I would have done it.
I don't think so either, Like I feel like that's
such a tell about Quinn and who she is. She
just was like, Okay, I'll just be a new person. Yeah.
One of them many reasons we're bringing Josh Milena into
this episode is because he's about to embark on the
(13:03):
craziest season two like so insane. But also this is
the first episode where Josh, Melina and Bellamy Young our
series regular. That's right. I can't believe that they weren't
always regulars either, because they're both so good, so present,
their storylines are so important to season one. They were
(13:25):
just guest stars. Garmo in a sliding doors. Josh or
Bellamy could have booked something or been offered something, oh
for sure, and we would have had a different first Yeah,
and they would have been unavailable. Like when you're a
recurring guest star, there's nothing in the thing that says
that you're loyal to that one show. Yeah, yeah, we'll
(13:47):
be right back. Guys. Oh my god, wait, the most
the one the ownly whoa facial hair. I know why
I did, Handsome. We were saying that you might be
(14:09):
the most controversial Scandal gas. As far as controversial, I
think I am the closest to having gotten fired without
actually getting fired. True. I got called to uncomfortable meetings
a couple of times because of pranks I played. I
believe it. I'm not surprised. I also told Guillermo before
(14:30):
you came on, I was like, I think there's very
few people that that Josh was actually afraid of on Scandal,
like fucking with them too much. And it was like Shonda, Betsy,
and Guermo. I was like, they're the only three people
Josh fucked with but for some reason actually respected some
sort of line based in fear. I think that's true. Well,
(14:53):
I'm only scared of Guarmo because I watched the show personally.
He's a pussycat. Watching a few episodes of Scandal and
I was like, I gotta wade for that guy, and
you were like, this motherfucker's crazy. You know, he's fucking scary.
He's fucking scary. Wait, Josh, so the West Wing podcast,
when did you start it and when did you end it?
March twenty sixteen, and then I believe the final wrap
(15:16):
up episode was on my birthday January seventeen, twenty twenty,
so it was about four years. Just shy of four years.
Oh wow, we did a live show of the eighth Theater.
Oh the Ace. That's huge. Oh nice, the theater's fucking massive. Yeah.
Fun fact about the season one of Scandal. I was
(15:36):
a guest star in all seven episodes of season one,
and I remember Kerry One saying to me, so, I'm
in every episode of season one, and you're in every
episode of season one, but I'm a series regular and you,
Josh our guest star. What does that mean? I said?
You know how, at the end of the week, you
get a lot of money. At the end of the week,
I get very little money. And that's what the difference is,
(15:57):
Isn't that always a bitch? I've been in the positions
and then you always feel bad and your agents are
always like you either got to walk away or you know,
just accepted and keep doing the job. Oh, by the way,
that happens now more than ever, usually I would just
stay and keep doing the job for no money, because
you don't want to lose a job. Yeah. No, I
wanted to work for Sean to Rhymes. I had done
episodes Practice and Gray's Anatomy. You did you did a Grayze? Yeah?
(16:21):
Oh yeah? Were you adorable? Wait? What did you play
on Grays? I was young, I'm Gray's I was Leslie
Grossman's husband and she needed a fecal transplant and I
had great lines like no poop, no poop for you.
You came onto the right podcast, Josh, because we talk
(16:42):
about poop a lot. We talk about shitting like nobody's business.
But wait, Josh, two things one. We wanted to have
you on this episode two oh one because congratulations, this
is when you became a series regular. So now you
can continue your story of why the first seven were
you a little bitch? And then the first episode of
season two, why did it change? And my other story
(17:03):
I want to say really quickly is that when we
shot the pilot, you walked onto the set and it
is the only time I think I've told you this,
and your head's about to get big. It's the only
time in seven seasons that I saw Shanda Rimes get starstruck.
She loves you so much. Josh Wilena walked on and
she was like, yeah, oh my god, I'm freaking out.
I'm freaking out. I was like, I'm kind of freaking
out too, but she was like, I'm totally freaking out.
(17:24):
Like I love Josh Willna. She was a big West
Wing fan, right, yeah, and really quickly you played Seth
Hammer on Grey's Anatomy. There it is, that's right, Seth Hammer.
It was Hammer time for a week. Why did you
become a regular? How did this happen? Well, here's what happened.
I had been offered episodes of Private Practice and Grey's
Anatomy because in fact, I think Seanna's a big West
(17:44):
Wing fan, and she couldn't have been nice to me
when I worked on that. My agents called Shonda Rhimes
has a pilot. I'm like, well, doesn't she just want
to give it to me? Like she keeps offering me
episode And the answer was no, she doesn't just want
to give it to you. She wants you to audition.
And then I went in and I remember, very awkward,
this is really weird. You know, there's like usually a
chair for the actor, but there was just an open
(18:05):
space and then there was a chair like next against
the wall, and I went and I just kind of
sat in it next to the wall. And then I
was like, well, this can't be right. And they were like, no, no,
that's a weird instinct and why you stand up and
do the scenes? And I did them and I felt
like it went well, and Hynda Rhyme said, well, that's
all I need to see. Oh wow, which you could
(18:26):
take one or two ways. And I remember calling my
agents and going like, either I've ruined my relationship with
Rynda Rhymes or I think maybe they're gonna give it
to me, like because she said that's all I need
to see. Do you remember what the scenes were? I
remember one where like I talked about her spidy senses
or something. Oh yeah, yeah, so it scenes with Olibya.
Maybe when she knocks on your door and you have
the dartmouth sweater on and you're so cute and you're
(18:47):
wearing like a darknesth sweat. Cute, you're very sweet. I
think that's exactly what it was. And then what they
said was this you got the pilot, And I was like,
I'm thrilled, and there's this amount of money and I
was like, wow, that's pretty good. They said, wait, wait, wait,
but you can choose how many episodes do you want
to be in for the same amount of money what?
In other words, what it came out to was seven
(19:08):
times minimum, right, So they were like, if you want
to be in the entire season, you just have to
work for minimum in every episode, or you can think
a really nice big check for one or a pretty
good check for two. And I was like, oh, I
want to I don't care. Yeah, I want to be
in all of them. Did you feel like you wanted
to be in all them? Because then you were like,
that's going to make my character like you need needed. Yeah. Yeah,
(19:30):
it made it. It It seemed like the greatest chance of
becoming a regular. And in the end, we actually made
a contract where I signed up to do all seven
as a guest star, and there was already in the
contract that if they were to go to a second
season and if they wanted me, I would be a regular.
And I was just desperately like waiting, Wait, was Dan
(19:50):
Bukatinsky auditioning for David Rosen as well? Yes, he was
no way. Unfortunately, didn't get it, but he did get
an Yeah he did, Yeah, he did. He also did
auditioned for Hawk too. Yeah. Well that shows one of
the nice things about Shanda, which is that she is
like Aaron Sorkin. She has people she loves to work with,
and she'll give you your shot and figure out where
she might be able to slot you in, Like she
(20:11):
loves Dan's work, and like, all right, this role, maybe
that's not Claire, this isn't Oh, I think we found
the one, and so we're lucky to be in her
in her sphere of players. When you came on board
and started to like, see why I say you're controversial
is because our cast is incredibly gushy and huggy and
kissy and lovey and texty, and Josh is like not
(20:35):
was the West Wing cast like really cool and like whatever?
And then you got into our cast and you were like,
this is insane. These people love each other way too much.
But they have to stop hugging at every table read
nobody fucking cares stop. Yeah. I think the West Wing
was somewhere on the spectrum between my like let's never
talk to each other or touch each other and the
(20:58):
scandal ethos of life. Let's just have a big friendship.
Origin somewhere between those two is west Wing. It was
probably right in the middle, got it. Speaking of texting, though,
I remember Josh did love texting on other people's phones,
That's true. And what he would text was I'm horny.
I'd put it on Twitter. Oh my god. He never
(21:19):
did it to me, but you've done it to Katie
three times. Now, let's set the scene ten years ago.
I don't think I even had a lock on my phone,
to be honest. I mean, I was just that naive
and trustworthy. I just remember chasing you and being like,
give me back my phone, and he'd get on my
Twitter account and he would just tweet from my Twitter
account I'm morny. And then I would just get like
(21:40):
days of like, why is it Adam taking care of that?
Just mortified. But that's just the beginning. Have you been
a prankster your whole life? I have, Indeed I have.
When I guessed are in other people's shows, I'm usually
well behaved, but then once I start feeling comfortable as
a series regular on something like now I'm bored, let's
(22:02):
have some fire, and I usually feel like I won't
get fired and unscandaled a couple of times it was like,
Seanda and Betsy needs to talk about. What did they
talk to you about? And were you like really scared?
The first time, I finished filming a scene and Ad
came to me and said, hey, don't change out of
your wardrobe. You need to go straight to Shanda and
Betsy's office. And I was like really, And I said
(22:24):
what about and She's like, I don't know. They didn't say,
And I was, as I was walking there, was thinking,
can't be getting a raised. It can't be good. It
seems unlikely that this is good news. And when I
got up there, it wasn't good news. Jimmy Kimmel, who
was a prankster himself, had sent me all these codes
(22:45):
that allow you to send a text or an email
as if it's from a specific person's phone. And I
remember writing back to Jimmy like, this is great. Do
you think it would be a bad idea to write
emails from Shonda Rhymes to people? And he said no,
I think that would be a great idea, but I
would wait until Scar handles off the year right now. No,
I was like, it's April Fool's Day, like, how can
(23:06):
I not do this? And I just wrote an email
to Tom Verica, our executive directing producer, and I wrote
him an email from Shanda that just said not cool.
Tom must have lost his ship. Well, as it turns out,
he was in the middle of renegotiating his contract. This
(23:30):
is just bad timing renegotiating. Josh, Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah?
I figured he'd see it. He knows it's April fools
will probably call me and be like, dude, did you
do this? Or he'll call Shana the laugh. But weeks
passed and I was like, oh, maybe it didn't even
go through, like a VI should worry about. Then I
got this thing like go see them in their office
and I sat down and they started saying, like Tom
Verica got an email. I was like, oh, not cool Tom, Yeah,
(23:54):
and they were like, don't impersonate. How did they even
find out that it was you? They didn't. I think
they they just went through. They were like, it's gotta
be Josh. Apparently there was a whole like Disney ABCNE investigation.
Oh my god. I think they like, I don't think
they forensically traced it to me. I think just someone
said like, who's the asshole, who's most likely to have
done this? I remember vague things after this came out
(24:16):
that they were like, holy shit, Shanda thought she had
been hacked. They had hired like people to look through
with the server and make sure that no one else
was emailing up. The definitely escalated into something I didn't anticipate,
as pranks sometimes do, and that was a bummer. And
then the second time, which was really bad, was when Porscherosi,
(24:39):
whom I love and played my love interest on and off,
she was leaving. She was filming her final day, and
so I took I can't even remember whether there was
a sunscreen or vasoline, and I put it under the
door handle on the driver's side of her crazy expensive
car in the parking spot next to mine. Every day
I'd be like, oh a Lamborghini. Oh you've been wow, unbelievable.
(25:03):
Look this is my love language. I wouldn't do it
to somebody I didn't like, but I expected to hear
from Porsche like that night or the next morning, like
you got me, and blah blah blah. Never heard anything again.
Weeks passed again, I finished filming a scene and somebody
was like, you have to go straight to there. I'm like, no,
not this again. And I remember I went up there
(25:25):
and I was nervously eating candy from the little candy
jar waiting in the empty room too, I guess Shunda's thing.
And she walked past me and the first time ever,
she gave me a death stare, and I was like,
oh my god, this is really bad, like because usually
I can see she like kind of even though I'm
a rasper, but this was dead. This was thousand yards stare.
(25:51):
Like I just I ran Cole. I mean, I'm sweating
actually just telling the story. And I went in and
I think I said, what is it this time? Like
fray ice and they were not having it. They were
not laughing, and I think I then said, please tell
me this isn't about portions, car door handle, and they
(26:11):
were like, yeah, as a matter of fact, that is
what it's about. And again, bad timing didn't occur to me.
The final scene she was filming spoiler alert, Can I
give this? Maybe not? Okay. I believe she died by
being beaten to death with a golf club. Oh yeah,
so she was leaving the show. I'm sure that had
(26:31):
some emotion in it. She had filmed getting killed by
golf club for seven hours, and at three in the
morning she went to her car and she got a
handful of asoline and she thought like, wow, somebody hates me.
And I was like, whoa, no, And I remember saying
that you're absolutely right to be upset about this. The
last thing I wanted to do was upset her. I've
talked about doing this thing. I thought she would know immediately.
(26:53):
Here's what I can tell you. I can tell you
that I'm going to walk out of this office. I'm
going to text Porsche and I give you my word,
it's not going to be long before I come back
with a text that's like, oh my god, you got me.
And they were like okay, and I walked out and run.
I'm so sorry. I'm the one who did vassily and
you know I love you, and it literally she wrote
(27:14):
back like, oh my god, I love and I want
back in and I was like, does this get me
off the hook? I showed them my phone. God damn you, Josh,
my guy. I remember Betsy saying essentially, we are accomplished
women who have more important things to do than field
phone calls from Elen DeGeneres, who's mad that her who
(27:39):
I was like, you know what, You're absolutely right. This
is a reflection on the fact that I am not
the complience. I have nothing but free time to do
these kinds of things, and it really shouldn't spill over
into your busy days. I'm terribly sorry. I would like
to continue working here. Please accept my Oh God, and Josh.
(28:00):
Because you are you, you will always get off, like
I just think. I mean, I just even if it's
by this the skin of your teeth, you will get off.
And I don't know why or how you've made it
this far. I mean, that would scare me enough where
I don't think I'll skate that close to the edge
ever again. Because I was thinking if I have to
(28:20):
call my wife and go like I lost my job
as scandal and when she says why, I say, well,
think kick out of this, and she would have been right, like,
what's wrong with you? Grow up? You're in your fifties. Okay,
next question, how the fuck did you? Okay, first of all,
(28:43):
I know you shit all over. Well, you're really interesting
all over, like like being being an actor and like
you know, you're not actorly in that, but it's really
bullshit because I do think somewhere in your heart you
of it. Oh no, I do love it. I'm not.
I watched this episode and I was like, I'm always thinking,
(29:05):
I'm going to think for the first time like that
was pretty good. Not watching I was like, my voice
is terrible bad ourselves though, because no one else is
thinking that, Josh, you're you're so good. Yeah, I'm not
trying to make you say Oh, We've been saying it, yo.
We've taped how many episodes already, and we are constantly
saying how great you are. And this episode doesn't even
(29:28):
it doesn't even show the caliber of your work. That
episode when you wake up and there's a dead woman
in your bed like you were, that was brilliant in
that episode, such great work wrote you like amazing. I mean,
whether or not it's to your taste. They wrote for
you sex scenes and murder and fucking jury shit and
(29:48):
like you're a school teacher and you're afraid and you're
like you got to do a lot of Yeah. Absolutely.
For the first few episode I thought I was on
a procedural. I was like, this is where you basically
give the same performance in the same character for seven
years hopefully or eight years and nine years and nothing changes.
Then like whatever. A few episodes in, I was like,
what I read the script like, she's having sex in
(30:10):
the shower. Yeah. I was just like, oh, this is insane.
And then a few more episodes later, I'm like, oh
my god, I'm part of the insanity. There's still by
the way, people who can't believe, like there's a woman
who's been tweeting the last couple of weeks like not
another sex scene with Josh Malina, like, Shanda, what are
you doing? I was like, if you think you were
surprised to be seeing me have sex, or do you
(30:30):
think how surprised I was to open a script and
be like, I'm having you and Abby. Abby and David
Rosen were like the first couple I feel like on
the show where we were like, oh my god, these
are two lead characters that were going to put together
like in a sexual scenario, and you guys had such
I was surprised you guys. Oh, you guys were really good,
(30:53):
but you were also like that that mean big brother
who would do shit to Darby. Like on set, I
remember we'd be rehearsed you're opa or wherever we had
a scene and she would be holding her side. If
she was sitting on a chair that had wheels, you
would grab her and wheel her like fifty feet away too,
or you would smack her sides like, oh josh, there
(31:15):
are definitely people listening. Now we're laughing as if it's great,
and there are people listening to how going he is,
but you're Shanda's always talking about her No, Ashole apologies,
like how did this go? I'm telling you we've talked
about this on this podcast. You won't listen to it,
so it doesn't matter. But let me tell you your face. No,
we talk about how fucking good you are. And my
(31:35):
question is I don't understand how you're that good when
you don't try and I try so hard, And how
do you memorize lines in the makeup chair? Yeah? Why
does your brain work like that? Like we just watched
the episode that where we're like, you sit and you
have this amazing monologue where you're like, stab, stab stab, Oh,
how I love to stab And it's a whole monologue
(31:57):
that's iron and Harrison like stop talking, stop talking, and
you just go on and on and on. But like,
do you never prepare or the night before look over stuff?
What's your process? That's a good question. Just because Shanda
listens to this, I want to defend myself. I take
it seriously to on a certain level. I do try.
(32:18):
I read a script once to be like, let's see
what the story is. Although if I'm probably honest, I
read my scenes first. I do that too, though I
do that too. Now that it's all delivered Electrono be,
you can just search En Rosen Rosen, like, Okay, that's
all my stuff. Now, let's figure out what's going on.
And then when it was scandal, I would always send
the script to my dad and then I'd be like,
(32:38):
so explain to me what's going on. Oh my god,
I should have done that. Me and Katie should have
done that. Send it to your dad, because sometimes we
would be like, what's happening? Yeah? I was like, my
dad and my mom are like my biggest supporters, and
they always watched it and they kept track of it.
I'm actually at their house right now, and I would
often say to my dad, so, like, talk me through,
like plot wise, I don't know why am I in
court and I'm defending who what I you remember in
(33:02):
season three and you killed that? And then so they
watch everything you ever do, like backwards and forwards, just
because they love you and they're so proud of you
pretty much. Yes, that's true. They're very very supportive Jewish parents,
so sweet. I do have a very good memory for dialogue.
I don't know what I have for Lench yesterday, but
I can remember dialogue very quickly. Has that changed since
(33:25):
COVID or in Age? No? I don't think so. Now
and now I'm doing plays, I realized how much I
had trained myself to learn dialogue quickly and forget it quickly,
Like if if I did shot this dialogue on Monday,
I knew it cold, but on Tuesday Garol had that too,
like an amazing short term memory. You can plug it
in and then the next day it's fucking gone. The
(33:46):
minute we walk off set, when that scene is done,
it's out of my brain, like it's gone. And Katie
would be like, let's try to do that scene we
did like last month, and I was like, Katie, what
are you talking about? I can't even remembering what I
would do it for fun. I memorize long haul though,
like I'm such a theater bitch. But okay, if you
had a big monologue on Scandal, would you learn it
(34:07):
the night before or always in the makeup chair? Like
what were you doing? I would definitely familiarize myself with
it the night before, feeling that and not just out
of laziness, but like some some smart person once said
to me, like, you want to learn your stuff for TV,
but just shy of knowing it cold so that it'll
appear like you're finding it a little bit, like you know,
(34:28):
seem like a human being. Yeah, it doesn't sound like
they memorize something. So I got I'm very good at
finding the line where like I got it pretty much.
I'm gonna sleep on out and gonna wake up and
in the makeup chair, I'm gonna nail it down and
I'll probably run it with the other persons also in
the makeup chair. But I do remember one awkward day
where we were all looking at our sides and I
said something like, you know, you guys reminded who's Christine?
(34:50):
And everybody just slowly looked at me in there like
are you kidding? Like the whole season is about this character,
Like I don't know, I just remember being really embarrassed.
I was like, oh, you're being see or you were
like really no, I really don't know. I was like,
I don't understand this scene. Why are we also obsessed
with Christine or whatever it was? And they were just like,
what is wrong with you? I was embarrassing. Wait, do
(35:11):
you ever think about like what do I want in
a scene? Or what's my moment before or anything? No? Right,
like you just I just think you have that same
actor chip in your brain, like like you're really good
at text obviously between Sorkin and this show, like text
is not an issue for you, and you're I'm telling you, Josh,
your work in these two seasons. I'm so jealous because
(35:31):
I know you're not right like my action or my
objective or my like you know, thinking about beats or shifts.
You You're just there. Yeah, I feel like I have
a good instinct for it. But the truth is, usually
when I watched my work, I'm like you were fine.
I'm not. I'm not. I'm not usually like you, Like
(35:52):
I'm horribly insecure. But maybe if I did some of
those things you're saying, I'd be better than Maybe. I know.
I that's what makes you so good. That's not part
of your process. Do you think that is? Like, I
think there's some effortlessness to something that's so difficult, you
making it look like it's so fucking easy. Yeah, this
(36:12):
is for ladies and gentlemen. Josh Melina is about to
be starring back on Broadway. He's been on Broadway before.
If you can catch him, you should. In leopolch Doad
written by the one and only fucking Tom Stoppard. I
already have my tickets. I'm going June tenth with eight
family members. Katie, I want to go, come with me
(36:33):
June eighth. I'm going to see any gladiators listening. June eighth,
I will be at Leopolchtads screaming and probably crying. It's
that script is remarkable, It's amazing he's writing. I was seventeen,
almost eighteen, and my dad's best friend was and still
is Manny Aisenberg's famous amazing producer who produced Tom Stoppard's
(36:53):
The Real Thing on Broadway. So I got invited to
opening night and as a seventeen year old, I was
suing and I was just like the writing like blue
my mind is writing is unreal, and that literally forty
years later, I believe him. See, this is why people
keep you around. Really quickly. Since we're talking about some
pass work, I'm gonna rattle off some of Josh's credits,
give it because I live it this up and I
(37:16):
was like, oh my God, Like, there's so much and
so much epic projects that he's done. A few good men,
the American President, Tracy takes on clock Watches with my
buddy Parker Posey, The Larry Sanders Show, Sports Night, The
West Wing, Stargate, Grey's Anatomy, I Carly and my favorite
Big Bank theory of course. But I'm also like a
huge horror film fan. And you haven't been in a
(37:37):
hart Phone, but you were in a thriller called Malice
that Aaron Sorkin also wrote. Correct. Yes, but I was
in one horror movie horror comedy called The Knights of Badass. Oh,
and I think Steve zn was in it, Peter dank Lidge.
It was comedy horror about a bunch of Larper's live
action role players. I'm gonna watch it tonight and I'm
(38:01):
coming over and I'm getting stoned and I'm watching it
with you. Yes, it was low budget to begin with
and then they didn't get the full effects budgets, like
there's I know the director is not happy with like
how it turned out, and I spoiler alert, have my
jaw ripped off as I'm being filated by a wood tea. Well, listen,
(38:22):
I went out Amazon Prime and I bought Malice because
I wanted to watch it. When I looked up your credit,
Josh plays this really cute like resident doctor or nurse
who comes out and speaks to Bill Pullman. But it's
a really fun like old school like eighties thriller movie.
Well the funny. Patrick Marber, the director, when he was
(38:42):
talking to me about potentially doing the role, said, and
you know it takes place in Vietna, but we've toyed
with doing Viens or German. We didn't do that, and
it opened in London, so everyone, you know, he said,
you don't have to sound British, but you can't sound America.
Can do in Mexican like everyone isditionalist. So you're not
(39:03):
even doing like heightened American, like like the Gilded Age
or something. No, it's pretty fifty years ago. You couldn't
get a foot in, you couldn't travel without a permit.
That's really good, Josh, it's really good. Thank you. We
will be back with more after the break now that
(39:23):
I'm trying to jog my memory about like David Rosen's journey. Okay,
so you auditioned for the role. Yes, Shanna was into you.
You went, got called to the principal's office a few times.
You had love interests with Abby Porsha and were you
also with um Artemis. Yes, our missus lovely A Susan
(39:44):
Oh and Zoe Perry and Zoe Perry and off camera
but dirty, dirty Susie whatever her name was, with the way,
we didn't when we have Shanna back on, got to
ask her like, I don't think there's a single character
on our show that went through that many Like, what's
(40:08):
that about? For sure? That is just Shana going. I
can do anything on television. I can take the least
attractive oldest member of my cast and have him have
more Susan. I'm telling you that's exactly what it is.
You were successfully pranked by us and the Jimmy Kimmel Show. Remember,
Oh Kimmel happens to be in this episode. Yes, Kimmel
(40:30):
is in an episode two one, that's right, and he's
interviewing the congressman Jacob Shaw, who's the case of the week,
and we love Kimmel, but he approached us like by
the end of Scandal, they were like, we want to
get Josh. And they spent so much money on this prank, Like, well,
first of all, I had had an idea and I
remember pitching our pr people like Bachelor has all these
(40:53):
watch parties, and the Bachelor people show up, they're surprised.
They love it, like everybody's having their wine and popcorn
Scandal watching part parties. Why don't we like surprise a
few people and like maybe it's a nice way to
go out with the final season. And they did it
through Good Morning America and Tony was the first and
this was all part of the Yeah. Then they were like, Josh,
you have to do one of these And I actually
really didn't watch, like I don't want to do it,
(41:15):
but it really speaks to your horror, which is as
much as Josh, Willie's a prankster, smartest person in the
room keeps his life interesting by like really pushing boundaries
with people. But Josh, you with fans is ridiculous, Like
you give them all the time in the world. You're
nice to say. I mean, I know you're very nice
to say that, and I know it comes from like
(41:36):
I can't believe anybody's happy to see me, so I'm like,
gotta keep your fans happy, like so you keep in business,
and like also just appreciation for people who are appreciating me,
Like Scandal fans are the best I did enjoy. So
the prank was about them asking you to show at
the end of this run. You know, they asked me
and Josh to come to a Scandal Roch watch party
(41:58):
and they we knew they would be watching Scandal and
we would walk in and it was up to me
to convince Josh that he should use a confetti blower thing.
And when we call in, god one of those guns
a confetti cannon. I remember, we go in, they're watching
Candle Can See and we pop in with our with
our camera. Boom, I pulled the confettiti hey, and like
(42:19):
everyone's laughing and having fun. And then I see the
mom in her chair like seemed really startled by the
confetti can clutching her chest for this and she's actually
clutching her chest and I'm starting to think, like, oh,
that was this is bad. We really, we really scared
this woman. Then I'm like, oh, no, she'sn't. Actually she's
a medical discomper, and I will admit it was nice
(42:41):
enough to like I definitely I went over and I
think I held her hand and I was trying to
calm down. The one thing I did was also cover
my ass because I'm thinking that if she died, did
I kill her? Is this like second agreement? Voluntary? Man?
And you can see me in the actual video of
the press. I'm only being quiet because I can't believed this. No,
I'm saying, and I say to her something like they
(43:02):
handed me the thing, or yeah, it wasn't my idea,
sort of like I'm trying to lay down my legal
case for when And then next thing I know, I
hear I hear a siren and like an ambulance has
been called, and I'm like, oh my god, this is
actually happening. And the paramedics burst through with the COT
(43:26):
but one of the paramedics is Jimmy Kimmel, and my
mind is like, what's going on? And I'm like, why
You've got me so bad? They throw me into the stretcher.
I'm deeply embarrassed, but also usually really that I didn't
kill this woman. And they wheel me outside, and unbeknownst
to me, they were concerned that I would not fall
for it and they wanted to back up freaking frank.
(43:47):
So there's a fire engine in the driveway and I
get sit up and they blast me from the what
Oh yeah, they blasted with a fire hole the old
lady actress. I had been there all day rehearsing for
like three hours, like different ways the scene could go.
(44:07):
I have never done a prank in my entire life.
I am so wildly uncomfortable with making people upset or
feel bad or like pranking to me is like I'm
one of those people that gives it up right away.
I'm like, I'm just kidding, We're just so. Then I
remember the garage door slowly opening and there's like video
(44:30):
village is in there, and we all have earbuds in
like all the actors in a scene. The older woman
who pretend to have a heart attack me, we had
earbuds in case. The director was like, oh, it was insane.
They spent like a billion dollars. It was insane. And
also I remember before we did it, our publicist. I
think it was Chris and Anderson at the time, calling
you and saying, do you know if Josh has ever
(44:51):
had a heart attack or if someone recently that he
loves has had a heart attack, because we want to
do this, but we also like don't want it to
go horribly awry in case it like God, we don't know,
like maybe his aunt or someone just had a heart
attack and he's just going to be Oh, that's actually
very unwell. And I remember thinking afterwards I wish I
(45:12):
had been onto what they were doing. If I figured
it out, I could have then pretended myself to have
a heart attack and see if I could survived it.
I would not have the best man ever. But unfortunately,
it turns out that the fact that you do practical
jokes and pranks for thirty years doesn't mean that you're
(45:32):
any less gullible than anybody else. Because I fell for
it completely. I remember actually texting Kimmel when I was
going to bed that night. I was like, well done,
and he rubbed back to me like was that real?
Did you really fall for that? Like he actually almost
couldn't believe it. I was like, dude, that was a
h but how could you not? That wasn't just like
a run of the mill fucking thing. I mean that
(45:54):
was like actors who would rehearse if we were doing
the drop in for Kimmel's, if you would have America
my mind. But I don't think good Morning America is
doing this. Nothing occurred. Luckily you have Kimmel's phone number.
Fucking Katie has sean to rhyme's phone number number. Wait
(46:15):
really quickly about this episode? What was the parts and
you watched last night that you thought you were uh yeah,
in the courtroom. I have memories of shooting this episode
because it was a lot of me. It was a
lot of a lot of people sitting well, I strut
around doing things, and part of it was literally vocally,
(46:36):
I was like, I don't sound like you want to
you know when you're like, and isn't it true you
want to be one of those you say what the hell? Hell?
You keep saying what the hell when they let Quinn
in this episode to jog all of your listeners memory,
this is the episode where who is Quinn Perkins? Who
is Quinn Perkins? But wait, okay, so you thought your
acting was bad? You say what the hell? A lot
what did you feel like when you read this script?
(46:57):
Not about this episode where Darby us to put her
hand in your mouth or you're something like that. I
felt very similarly to the way I felt when I
finally watched it. I was like, I don't know what's
going on? Is this supposed to be sexy? Is this
some sort of BDSM? Is this? And I was hot?
(47:18):
I read it, we shot it, I watched it, and
I still never figured out what Josh I can't um Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,
there's more, There's more, this more, okay. This is the
first episode that marked both Bellama Young and Josh Molina
a series regulars. You guys went to Yale, but not
at the same time. She is younger than I, so
she she knew who I was. She did not, She
(47:41):
did no, I think, because I think we were actually
maybe in Guys and Dolls together. The idea that she
may have had a smaller roller or been in the
ensemble and I had a lead. It's funny because I
can't sing and she has a beautiful voice. Did you
do a ton of plays in college? Josh? I did. Yeah,
I'm an undergraduate theater said he's major. Every now and
then people think like, oh, you went to Yale drama school.
I'm like, no, I went to the other one and
(48:02):
was a drama made. I went to the knot because
they just drama school, but I knew I wanted to
be an actual already, and my parents were like, for
the love of God, get a college degree. Also, what
it was your degree in. It's not like it didn't
help me at all with acting and wouldn't have helped
me in anything else. Do you remember what the first
play was that you did? There? I do, I did.
(48:24):
Christopher Durrang's sister, Mary Ignatius explains it all. Wow, do
you have any memories from the first two seasons that
stick out? Do you have any memories from the pilot?
I remember shooting those scenes at the door with Kerry
and scene in a bar with Kerry. Most of my
stuff was with Kerry, and I just remember liking her
(48:46):
a lot, like like I just remember vibing like she's cool.
First of all, Like whenever the number one person on
the culture it is cool. It's like, yeah, this is
a very good sign. Did you feel like at the
end of season one, like we're definitely going to get
a season too? Did you feel like it would was
going to be one hundred and twenty four episodes show.
I just remember early on thinking it was a procedural approach,
(49:08):
and procedurals, if they hit, they last a long time. Yeah,
they last a long time, and they're they're worth a
lot in syndication because you can play him in any
order and it doesn't matter, and people can pop in
and watch a rerun or whatever. And then once it
started turning into this insane show that was burning through plot,
I was like, oh my god, this episode has as
much plot as a full season of another show, Like
(49:29):
this cannot sustain. So I started getting nerves. Even as
the show was getting like better and more interesting and
crazy and it was fun, I was like, this is
gonna this might be a death sentence. We'd already shot
the president by like the thirteenth episode in it, It's like,
what the fuck are I gonna do? No, exactly. I
underestimated the fiendish creative mind of Shanda Rhimes and her
writers because like they never had any problem coming up
(49:52):
with seven plots per episode that were completely insane, and like, oh,
they can keep this running as long as they want,
Like this is why I'm not a writer and they are.
But then I also remember when it was like taking
off on Twitter and I was like again literally like
butterflies on my stumble, Like I think this maybe turning
into a thing like everybody's talking about and people are
(50:12):
stopping me in the street, Like it really was a
fun ride with an incredible group of people, Like to
get one of those in a career is like more
than you can hope for. I remember thinking, is this
going to be like a Graze Anatomy situation? Like are
we gonna go for like twelve thirteen seasons? And then
you know, obviously Shanda knew there was a beginning, middle,
and an end to the to the show, and she
(50:33):
let us know that it was ending it. But I
think we were all so bummed, right because the network
wanted us to keep going. I was like, wait what,
I know. I was definitely. I even remember as Shanda
was telling us in the conference call like that she
was ending it. I was text neighbor and we're like, god, yeah,
you were texting me like oh yeah, like how could
(50:55):
you we have the white whale? We have the fucking
white hat. Yeah, you're the best. I'm so excited to
see you. Yeah, this is so much fun. I realized
how much I'm missing that. When I don't see you,
I don't miss you at all. But now that I'm
seeing you, I really I was like I did like
them more than they realized. To our gladiators, I haven't
earned it a dime since the show went off the air,
(51:16):
but thank you for that brief window in my life
when I didn't have to worry about money for like
five years. It's awesome all because of you, guys, Josh,
you had the best. We love you. Love you, guys.
Tell George we love him and we'll be bugging him asap.
I'll tell him he's not on the show. Twe tweetie, tweet, tweet, tweet,
(51:37):
twet tweet. Oh my god. People were fucking pumped from
these tweets because this was the fucking season two premiere
at ABC. Scandal fans tweet so ready for at Scanal
babyc premiere hashtag one minute, don't hate hashtag, asked Scandal,
and Lisa at Belenoir tweeted homemade shrimp hashtag I'm fancy
(52:02):
retweet call me dolla. What y'all bringing to the Scandal
watch party? So she made some cocon A shrimp and
brought it to a Scandal watch party. A m at
Everybody Loves DJ wrote, I'm ready to find out who
the hell Quinn is tonight hashtag scandal ugh real yah
at two Underscore, tol says, what the fuck is Quinn Perkins?
(52:23):
Hashtag Scandal, hashtag gladiers in suits? Everyone's talking about Quinn
at Chrissy B. Davis wrote, I had so many thoughts
as to who Quinn could be. Will be happy to
finally find out tonight hashtag scandal. I like that, And
then Aaron at Aaron J. Cruise tweeted who of the
Scandal cast is the most like the character they play?
(52:46):
Hashtag asked Scandal. That's when we were doing that hashtag
asked Scandal And then we would, you know, answer as
many questions as we could, Yes, we did. Hashtag as
Scandal forever. Who do you think is most like the
character that they play? Fucking I think Carrie Washington as Olivia.
I think so too in some ways. In some ways
(53:06):
she's Olivia is not goofy, right, and Carrie's got a
lot of Olivia popiner. I think I and Quinn have
a lot of smarties. I think Josh Molina and David
Rosen have some stuff. Everybody has a little bit of it,
you don't, I mean, you know in the in the
being quiet and sometimes wanting to be alone, and I
(53:27):
could see that being you know, similar to myself and
to talk. Yeah, but howk you literally make your voice
and the mask of your face different. Oh yeah, Like
you do things as your face is garmo that you
don't do on your face as huk. That's so true.
That's so true. Like you have a mask that actually
like changes, which is fucking amazing to behold. Yeah. The
(53:50):
next episode is called Grant for the People People. I
don't remember what the fuck happened. I have no idea,
but y'all are going to want to listen and stay
tuned because you know it's going to be a good time.
We gotta go watch it now, so we're ready for
the next episode of this podcast. Any Gladiators that don't
think Josh Willne is hot enough to have a sex
scene leave him alone. He's so hot. I think he's sexy, sexy.
(54:14):
I do too. Also, I'm so jealous that he's going
to have lunch right now with George Newburn of the
Century City Mall, we should go crashtass ship right now,
he invited us. Did you get that text? No, I
haven't even looked at my phone because we're doing a podcast.
He texted us yesterday saying, Yo, I'm not sure what
time you guys stopped recording, but I'm going to have
lunch with George Newburn if you both like to come.
(54:35):
Oh I didn't get that, but whatever, we don't want
to go anyway. That is, yeah, but yo, Josh is
so freaking smart and talented and fun to talk to,
Like we could have done this for like three more hours,
you know, Like he's so much fun. I love all
the best, and he really was an important energy on Scan.
(54:57):
He really wasn't important. He has so many great episodes
where his work is superstellar. So we're definitely going to
have him back. Yes, absolutely. I love you all so much.
Thank you for listening. Thank you everyone, Thank you guys
for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed
(55:18):
the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or
leave us a review. Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Alex AlCH, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang and Gabrielle Collins. Our
producer and editor is Vince De Johnny, with music by
Chad Fisher. Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and
you can follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu. Unpacking
(55:39):
the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the
iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
Unpacking the Toolboxes, a production of Shondoland Audio in partnership
with Iheartradiote. Do you like how unattractive I am? Like,
(00:35):
I'm a real chameleon? Are you fucking kidding me? Shut
the fuck up? No? No, Like me without makeup is impressive,
and me with makeup is I'm a fucking dream woman.
What do you want? Yo? How was the audition? It
was my first time ever using a teleprompter? Have you?
Oh really? Oh yeah, I've used teleprompters, but not for
(00:57):
scripted stuff, only for like host type thing. Well, when
i get like eight pages of monologues, now, I'm like, oh, guys,
especially if it's like da crap speaking of DA and
lawyerly speak, we have the fucking most mischievous guest today
coming on, and he's the best lawyer speak motherfucker actor
(01:19):
I've ever seen in my life. Oh yeah, can you
believe this motherfucker at how easy it can? I hate him?
I know, I know, and he and I'm drilling like
legal talk and making it feel like it just like
comes off the tongue. And also it takes me days
to prep that, and this ship came in like yesterday. Yeah,
it takes me days because I need to be confident,
(01:40):
like confident, ye, but this motherfucker, I mean you've said
this before. Oh my god, He'll look at that shit
in the makeup trader and time and it's easy. And
he's not even shaken. He can't be shook. He's well
because he could give a shit too. He's like, Oh,
I don't care, I don't care. I just want the page.
(02:00):
I mean, this is his middle name should be. I
just want to pay paycheck. Had you ever had auditions
where you have to like pick up sides or a script?
Oh the time? Are you kidding? All the time? Real?
When I first moved to LA I would have to
drive to my agency and there would be a basket
in the lobby if it was after hours, and they
(02:22):
would leave your script in a manilla envelope with your
name on it. Oh yeah, I remember that. At the
time of this recording, I would just also like to say,
this is the seventeenth year to the day anniversary when
I moved to last Oh, that's a long time. It's
a long time, Like I can't even believe it. But
I always remember getting off at Lax being like, what
(02:45):
did I just do? To blow up my life like
this renting a beater, piece of shit, fucked up car,
and I got on the four oh five and the
ten scariest drive of my entire life, and I had
a Thomas guy to get around. Some big ass nerd
created the Thomas Guide. I was like, don't even come
(03:06):
at me with this thick book of fucking coordinates, Like
what are you talking about how I used to try
to get a round audition? Oh? Hell no, I'm a
geographic dumb dumb. I'm a bad driver, like very bad,
which reminds me. Also, you and I, You and I
are cut, we have the same We shot the pilot
(03:27):
and it's raining, and you're in a you're so hot,
you're in a leather jacket and you're in a jeep
wrangler that has no top. Oh my god. Remember, and
you're like, can I follow you to get on the
one oh one? And I kept saying like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I got it, I got it, I got it. And
I see you in my rearview mirror, like following me,
and I don't know where I'm going, and I just
remember I keep pulling uee's and you're pulling UEI's and
(03:49):
it's s raining as shit. Yeah. I was like, it
would be worse if it was just me, girl. I
was impressed at all. I was like, do your thing,
take your time. Now. There are a few controversial players
that we have had on the podcast that we're going
to have on the podcast. Controversial players. This one is
a controversial player because he is a polarizing motherfucker. This
(04:10):
is the number one fucking polarizing. Like you either are
on board with his antics or you are afraid, which
makes you mad at him. Yeah, I fucking teeter talk.
I'm back and forth like I love him and I
laugh and I enjoy it, and then I'm like, I
cannot believe you freaking did that. And I'm so pissed
at him, Like I go back and forth. He's kind
(04:31):
of scared of you. I could feel that too, because
I'll go off on a motherfucker. Yeah. See, he never
fucked with you, no, yeah, yeah. And I feel like
it's because he was always a little bit like, oh,
you don't do that to Guermo, like you don't there,
he didn't do to you what he's done did to me,
or because I'm such a fucking easy target. But here's
the thing. He's the most talented dude without trying, which
(04:54):
is so frustrating. Yeah, like Josh Mullen is the smartest
person in the room, Oh yeah, but also a quick
win and a quick intelligence, Like I people ask me
a question and I have to be like, give me
twenty minutes to go try to understand the question and
think of what I'm gonna say. Sometimes, guys, we would
do cold reads of our scripts, and I would be
(05:14):
fucking mortified that they would find out in a cold read,
like how exactly dumb I am? But like I wouldn't
know how to pronounce a word, or there might be
like a turn of phrase or something that was like
a colloquialism. Same like quickly look at Quinn's lines to
make sure there wasn't something that would out how like
unintelligent I was. Because there were so many fucking smart
(05:35):
people in our cast, Like do you know that Bellamy
Young and Josh Willna went to Yale fucking Yale, dude,
like real kidding, And Shanda went to Dartmouth. Half the
writers or more were like journalists, perfect like unbelievable talent.
Do you carry went to GWS? Right? That's right? Obviously
(05:56):
She's a political animal and just ridiculously smart. Where did
you go, Katie, Well, I went to Tish School. You
you don't got to be smart to get in there. Well, listen,
it's not easy to get into No, you have to
have done well. But it has something to do with smarts.
For me, I just was good at school, and if
I wasn't going to get a great grade, I knew
(06:17):
how to do extra time in the teacher's room to
make them like me and give me an like I
was working that shit from jump. But guys, we have
teased one of the most controversial and polarizing guests to
have ever been on the Skin and Rewatch podcast and
on Scanal. I love him. I think he's so amazing.
(06:38):
And we are talking about episode two oh one called
White Hats Off, which aired on September twenty seventh of
twenty twelve, and it was written by Jenna Bands and
directed by our very own we love him so much,
Tom Verica. Whoa, whoa, We love you, Tom Verica. It
was guest starring Wendy Davis Is Kimberly, Mitchell Reese Rios
(06:58):
as reporter number one, did Norah Walcott as Reporter Number two,
Erica Schaefer as TV newscaster, j Jackson as local newscaster,
and then we have Jimmy Kimmel as himself, Jackson Hurst
as Congressman Jacob Shaw, Gillian Armanante as Moira, O'Donnell, Mara
Soden as Doctor Brown, and I wanted to add Shelley
Morrison as the judge who played Rosario in Will and Grace.
(07:19):
I mean, come on, this is the synopsis. This was
our first episode back. I mean, after we shot the
first seven episodes of the first season, we didn't know
for sure if we were going to get a second season, right,
We didn't know. Six months after Quinn's arrest, Olidia and
the OPA team are confident they'll win her case, as
David Rosen's evidence is mostly just Quinn's motive, her cheating
(07:40):
ex boyfriend, and the fact that she fled. The OPA
team helps a congressman navigate a sex tape scandal. As
Quinn's case begins to crumble around her, but Olivia refuses
to let Quinn be found guilty, probably because she and
Huck were the ones actually behind Quinn's new identity. I
remember literally spending all summer with people asking me if
(08:03):
I knew who Quinn Perkins was, And I was like no,
because because if the cliffhanger at the end of season
one is Olivia telling Quinn, do you want to tell
them who you are? Or you want me to tell you?
Tell them? Right? Yeah? Do you want to tell them
who you really are? Or should I should? I? Yeah?
So people held on to that for how long before
we came back? Well, this aired September twenty seventh, in
(08:27):
twenty twelve, and I think our last Scandal episode was
like May. So it was like the summer that I
got married. Okay. I have this memory of two hundred
and fifteen people going like, who are who are you?
Who is Quinn? Yeah? Who is Quinn? And I'm like,
I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, I hope I
have a job. I hope I have a job. And
(08:47):
probably the writers didn't fully know exactly which direction they
we're gonna go either, I would think, right, I mean
think they knew it? Yeah, I don't think they knew
at all. Every episode with Hollis Doyle until this point
he has seen eating or mentioning Gettysburger. Gettysburger. How good
does a burger sound right now, Fox, I would rush
(09:10):
a burger right now. Like, uh, I was watching Anthony
Bourdain last night and he's eating a cheeseburger at just
like a you know, one of those like stands outside
he was in, like I don't know, he was like
in Jamaica or somewhere, but it was just a greasy
cheeseburger and it looks so fucking good. I mean, come on,
(09:30):
oh god, I love it. There are three fucking continuity
errors in this episode. Photos of Elaine show that she's blonde,
but in Truth or Consequences, the actress playing Elane is
a brunette. A brunette. Oh this is the best. Yeah,
Jesse Tyler is not Adam Shapiro at this time. It's
some other dude that they took photos of and they
whoopsie doodle. Yeah, they didn't know Adam was going to
(09:51):
play play the role. Yeah. No. After Olivia and David
leave the court, the next scene shows the Monument of
Iwajima with the Statehouse in Washington omnument in the background.
But the Ewigima monument is not in DC. It's in Arlington.
That's messed up. Yeah, that's advertise. That's that's that's that
continuity that didn't happen. Were there any winning scenes from
(10:14):
this episode? Yes, and you're in it. Oh, scene where
you end up firing Olivia and she comes to see
you in jail, right, and your other attorney that you
hire is there, and Olivia's like, give me a moment, please,
and You're like, fine, give us a moment, and you're
their face off, you know, you and Olivia going at it,
and you stand up and we see Quinn's fury, like,
(10:38):
come out. You were so good. You were a fucking powerhouse.
And that's oh god, I thought I was horrible. Oh
I was gonna ask you, have you ever flipped out
like that? I love you've done that right? Oh yeah yeah,
well that scene where you flip out on Olivia, Man,
I fucking loved it. I was like, hell yeah to
say that. So that's I really think gar I really
(10:58):
think all of Josh's room scenes are fucking unbelievable. Oh
so good. That courtroom stuff is really really fun, fun
to watch. And and again we mentioned to do and
hard to fucking do. And can we say how much
I love how much we love a Gillian Armonante who
played your defense attorney. Oh, she's so great in this episode.
And I looked her up to and she she had
(11:19):
been in two epic movies. One was Dog Fight with
a Lily Taylor. We have you've ever seen that film?
And no great movie? I see nothing, I watch nothing,
I do nothing. And then she was in Girl Interrupted
with Winona Ryder. Yeah, Abby is into watching the sex
(11:40):
daye herself. I wrote there's the your ornamental not instrumental yes,
which is a big winning line from the FSA you
are ornamental, not You're ornamental not instrumental. Oh so good.
Oh my god, fits Olivia. It's so slow and they
(12:01):
say hello and high. I love that this whole time.
Huck and Olivia have the best poker face, like they're
the ones that Quinn and moved her to a whole
different state, right yes, and changed her identity and they
know this throughout the whole episode. And those two have
(12:22):
the best like poker face, like they're not letting anything
show and not until the end of the episode do
we know that all of Quinn Perkins is Huck and Olivia.
And Huck is like she took everything we gave her,
We're good to go, or something like that. Yo. It
made me also think, like what would I have done
in that situation. Would I have been like fuck, yeah,
(12:43):
I'm gonna do this, or what I would have you know,
like flipped out and ran outside of the littletel crying
like Yeah, I don't think I would have done it.
I don't think so either, Like I feel like that's
such a tell about Quinn and who she is. She
just was like, Okay, I'll just be a new person. Yeah.
One of them many reasons we're bringing Josh Milena into
this episode is because he's about to embark on the
(13:03):
craziest season two like so insane. But also this is
the first episode where Josh, Melina and Bellamy Young our
series regular. That's right. I can't believe that they weren't
always regulars either, because they're both so good, so present,
their storylines are so important to season one. They were
(13:25):
just guest stars. Garmo in a sliding doors. Josh or
Bellamy could have booked something or been offered something, oh
for sure, and we would have had a different first Yeah,
and they would have been unavailable. Like when you're a
recurring guest star, there's nothing in the thing that says
that you're loyal to that one show. Yeah, yeah, we'll
(13:47):
be right back. Guys. Oh my god, wait, the most
the one the ownly whoa facial hair. I know why
I did, Handsome. We were saying that you might be
(14:09):
the most controversial Scandal gas. As far as controversial, I
think I am the closest to having gotten fired without
actually getting fired. True. I got called to uncomfortable meetings
a couple of times because of pranks I played. I
believe it. I'm not surprised. I also told Guillermo before
(14:30):
you came on, I was like, I think there's very
few people that that Josh was actually afraid of on Scandal,
like fucking with them too much. And it was like Shonda, Betsy,
and Guermo. I was like, they're the only three people
Josh fucked with but for some reason actually respected some
sort of line based in fear. I think that's true. Well,
(14:53):
I'm only scared of Guarmo because I watched the show personally.
He's a pussycat. Watching a few episodes of Scandal and
I was like, I gotta wade for that guy, and
you were like, this motherfucker's crazy. You know, he's fucking scary.
He's fucking scary. Wait, Josh, so the West Wing podcast,
when did you start it and when did you end it?
March twenty sixteen, and then I believe the final wrap
(15:16):
up episode was on my birthday January seventeen, twenty twenty,
so it was about four years. Just shy of four years.
Oh wow, we did a live show of the eighth Theater.
Oh the Ace. That's huge. Oh nice, the theater's fucking massive. Yeah.
Fun fact about the season one of Scandal. I was
(15:36):
a guest star in all seven episodes of season one,
and I remember Kerry One saying to me, so, I'm
in every episode of season one, and you're in every
episode of season one, but I'm a series regular and you,
Josh our guest star. What does that mean? I said?
You know how, at the end of the week, you
get a lot of money. At the end of the week,
I get very little money. And that's what the difference is,
(15:57):
Isn't that always a bitch? I've been in the positions
and then you always feel bad and your agents are
always like you either got to walk away or you know,
just accepted and keep doing the job. Oh, by the way,
that happens now more than ever, usually I would just
stay and keep doing the job for no money, because
you don't want to lose a job. Yeah. No, I
wanted to work for Sean to Rhymes. I had done
episodes Practice and Gray's Anatomy. You did you did a Grayze? Yeah?
(16:21):
Oh yeah? Were you adorable? Wait? What did you play
on Grays? I was young, I'm Gray's I was Leslie
Grossman's husband and she needed a fecal transplant and I
had great lines like no poop, no poop for you.
You came onto the right podcast, Josh, because we talk
(16:42):
about poop a lot. We talk about shitting like nobody's business.
But wait, Josh, two things one. We wanted to have
you on this episode two oh one because congratulations, this
is when you became a series regular. So now you
can continue your story of why the first seven were
you a little bitch? And then the first episode of
season two, why did it change? And my other story
(17:03):
I want to say really quickly is that when we
shot the pilot, you walked onto the set and it
is the only time I think I've told you this,
and your head's about to get big. It's the only
time in seven seasons that I saw Shanda Rimes get starstruck.
She loves you so much. Josh Wilena walked on and
she was like, yeah, oh my god, I'm freaking out.
I'm freaking out. I was like, I'm kind of freaking
out too, but she was like, I'm totally freaking out.
(17:24):
Like I love Josh Willna. She was a big West
Wing fan, right, yeah, and really quickly you played Seth
Hammer on Grey's Anatomy. There it is, that's right, Seth Hammer.
It was Hammer time for a week. Why did you
become a regular? How did this happen? Well, here's what happened.
I had been offered episodes of Private Practice and Grey's
Anatomy because in fact, I think Seanna's a big West
(17:44):
Wing fan, and she couldn't have been nice to me
when I worked on that. My agents called Shonda Rhimes
has a pilot. I'm like, well, doesn't she just want
to give it to me? Like she keeps offering me
episode And the answer was no, she doesn't just want
to give it to you. She wants you to audition.
And then I went in and I remember, very awkward,
this is really weird. You know, there's like usually a
chair for the actor, but there was just an open
(18:05):
space and then there was a chair like next against
the wall, and I went and I just kind of
sat in it next to the wall. And then I
was like, well, this can't be right. And they were like, no, no,
that's a weird instinct and why you stand up and
do the scenes? And I did them and I felt
like it went well, and Hynda Rhyme said, well, that's
all I need to see. Oh wow, which you could
(18:26):
take one or two ways. And I remember calling my
agents and going like, either I've ruined my relationship with
Rynda Rhymes or I think maybe they're gonna give it
to me, like because she said that's all I need
to see. Do you remember what the scenes were? I
remember one where like I talked about her spidy senses
or something. Oh yeah, yeah, so it scenes with Olibya.
Maybe when she knocks on your door and you have
the dartmouth sweater on and you're so cute and you're
(18:47):
wearing like a darknesth sweat. Cute, you're very sweet. I
think that's exactly what it was. And then what they
said was this you got the pilot, And I was like,
I'm thrilled, and there's this amount of money and I
was like, wow, that's pretty good. They said, wait, wait, wait,
but you can choose how many episodes do you want
to be in for the same amount of money what?
In other words, what it came out to was seven
(19:08):
times minimum, right, So they were like, if you want
to be in the entire season, you just have to
work for minimum in every episode, or you can think
a really nice big check for one or a pretty
good check for two. And I was like, oh, I
want to I don't care. Yeah, I want to be
in all of them. Did you feel like you wanted
to be in all them? Because then you were like,
that's going to make my character like you need needed. Yeah. Yeah,
(19:30):
it made it. It It seemed like the greatest chance of
becoming a regular. And in the end, we actually made
a contract where I signed up to do all seven
as a guest star, and there was already in the
contract that if they were to go to a second
season and if they wanted me, I would be a regular.
And I was just desperately like waiting, Wait, was Dan
(19:50):
Bukatinsky auditioning for David Rosen as well? Yes, he was
no way. Unfortunately, didn't get it, but he did get
an Yeah he did, Yeah, he did. He also did
auditioned for Hawk too. Yeah. Well that shows one of
the nice things about Shanda, which is that she is
like Aaron Sorkin. She has people she loves to work with,
and she'll give you your shot and figure out where
she might be able to slot you in, Like she
(20:11):
loves Dan's work, and like, all right, this role, maybe
that's not Claire, this isn't Oh, I think we found
the one, and so we're lucky to be in her
in her sphere of players. When you came on board
and started to like, see why I say you're controversial
is because our cast is incredibly gushy and huggy and
kissy and lovey and texty, and Josh is like not
(20:35):
was the West Wing cast like really cool and like whatever?
And then you got into our cast and you were like,
this is insane. These people love each other way too much.
But they have to stop hugging at every table read
nobody fucking cares stop. Yeah. I think the West Wing
was somewhere on the spectrum between my like let's never
talk to each other or touch each other and the
(20:58):
scandal ethos of life. Let's just have a big friendship.
Origin somewhere between those two is west Wing. It was
probably right in the middle, got it. Speaking of texting, though,
I remember Josh did love texting on other people's phones,
That's true. And what he would text was I'm horny.
I'd put it on Twitter. Oh my god. He never
(21:19):
did it to me, but you've done it to Katie
three times. Now, let's set the scene ten years ago.
I don't think I even had a lock on my phone,
to be honest. I mean, I was just that naive
and trustworthy. I just remember chasing you and being like,
give me back my phone, and he'd get on my
Twitter account and he would just tweet from my Twitter
account I'm morny. And then I would just get like
(21:40):
days of like, why is it Adam taking care of that?
Just mortified. But that's just the beginning. Have you been
a prankster your whole life? I have, Indeed I have.
When I guessed are in other people's shows, I'm usually
well behaved, but then once I start feeling comfortable as
a series regular on something like now I'm bored, let's
(22:02):
have some fire, and I usually feel like I won't
get fired and unscandaled a couple of times it was like,
Seanda and Betsy needs to talk about. What did they
talk to you about? And were you like really scared?
The first time, I finished filming a scene and Ad
came to me and said, hey, don't change out of
your wardrobe. You need to go straight to Shanda and
Betsy's office. And I was like really, And I said
(22:24):
what about and She's like, I don't know. They didn't say,
And I was, as I was walking there, was thinking,
can't be getting a raised. It can't be good. It
seems unlikely that this is good news. And when I
got up there, it wasn't good news. Jimmy Kimmel, who
was a prankster himself, had sent me all these codes
(22:45):
that allow you to send a text or an email
as if it's from a specific person's phone. And I
remember writing back to Jimmy like, this is great. Do
you think it would be a bad idea to write
emails from Shonda Rhymes to people? And he said no,
I think that would be a great idea, but I
would wait until Scar handles off the year right now. No,
I was like, it's April Fool's Day, like, how can
(23:06):
I not do this? And I just wrote an email
to Tom Verica, our executive directing producer, and I wrote
him an email from Shanda that just said not cool.
Tom must have lost his ship. Well, as it turns out,
he was in the middle of renegotiating his contract. This
(23:30):
is just bad timing renegotiating. Josh, Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah?
I figured he'd see it. He knows it's April fools
will probably call me and be like, dude, did you
do this? Or he'll call Shana the laugh. But weeks
passed and I was like, oh, maybe it didn't even
go through, like a VI should worry about. Then I
got this thing like go see them in their office
and I sat down and they started saying, like Tom
Verica got an email. I was like, oh, not cool Tom, Yeah,
(23:54):
and they were like, don't impersonate. How did they even
find out that it was you? They didn't. I think
they they just went through. They were like, it's gotta
be Josh. Apparently there was a whole like Disney ABCNE investigation.
Oh my god. I think they like, I don't think
they forensically traced it to me. I think just someone
said like, who's the asshole, who's most likely to have
done this? I remember vague things after this came out
(24:16):
that they were like, holy shit, Shanda thought she had
been hacked. They had hired like people to look through
with the server and make sure that no one else
was emailing up. The definitely escalated into something I didn't anticipate,
as pranks sometimes do, and that was a bummer. And
then the second time, which was really bad, was when Porscherosi,
(24:39):
whom I love and played my love interest on and off,
she was leaving. She was filming her final day, and
so I took I can't even remember whether there was
a sunscreen or vasoline, and I put it under the
door handle on the driver's side of her crazy expensive
car in the parking spot next to mine. Every day
I'd be like, oh a Lamborghini. Oh you've been wow, unbelievable.
(25:03):
Look this is my love language. I wouldn't do it
to somebody I didn't like, but I expected to hear
from Porsche like that night or the next morning, like
you got me, and blah blah blah. Never heard anything again.
Weeks passed again, I finished filming a scene and somebody
was like, you have to go straight to there. I'm like, no,
not this again. And I remember I went up there
(25:25):
and I was nervously eating candy from the little candy
jar waiting in the empty room too, I guess Shunda's thing.
And she walked past me and the first time ever,
she gave me a death stare, and I was like,
oh my god, this is really bad, like because usually
I can see she like kind of even though I'm
a rasper, but this was dead. This was thousand yards stare.
(25:51):
Like I just I ran Cole. I mean, I'm sweating
actually just telling the story. And I went in and
I think I said, what is it this time? Like
fray ice and they were not having it. They were
not laughing, and I think I then said, please tell
me this isn't about portions, car door handle, and they
(26:11):
were like, yeah, as a matter of fact, that is
what it's about. And again, bad timing didn't occur to me.
The final scene she was filming spoiler alert, Can I
give this? Maybe not? Okay. I believe she died by
being beaten to death with a golf club. Oh yeah,
so she was leaving the show. I'm sure that had
(26:31):
some emotion in it. She had filmed getting killed by
golf club for seven hours, and at three in the
morning she went to her car and she got a
handful of asoline and she thought like, wow, somebody hates me.
And I was like, whoa, no, And I remember saying
that you're absolutely right to be upset about this. The
last thing I wanted to do was upset her. I've
talked about doing this thing. I thought she would know immediately.
(26:53):
Here's what I can tell you. I can tell you
that I'm going to walk out of this office. I'm
going to text Porsche and I give you my word,
it's not going to be long before I come back
with a text that's like, oh my god, you got me.
And they were like okay, and I walked out and run.
I'm so sorry. I'm the one who did vassily and
you know I love you, and it literally she wrote
(27:14):
back like, oh my god, I love and I want
back in and I was like, does this get me
off the hook? I showed them my phone. God damn you, Josh,
my guy. I remember Betsy saying essentially, we are accomplished
women who have more important things to do than field
phone calls from Elen DeGeneres, who's mad that her who
(27:39):
I was like, you know what, You're absolutely right. This
is a reflection on the fact that I am not
the complience. I have nothing but free time to do
these kinds of things, and it really shouldn't spill over
into your busy days. I'm terribly sorry. I would like
to continue working here. Please accept my Oh God, and Josh.
(28:00):
Because you are you, you will always get off, like
I just think. I mean, I just even if it's
by this the skin of your teeth, you will get off.
And I don't know why or how you've made it
this far. I mean, that would scare me enough where
I don't think I'll skate that close to the edge
ever again. Because I was thinking if I have to
(28:20):
call my wife and go like I lost my job
as scandal and when she says why, I say, well,
think kick out of this, and she would have been right, like,
what's wrong with you? Grow up? You're in your fifties. Okay,
next question, how the fuck did you? Okay, first of all,
(28:43):
I know you shit all over. Well, you're really interesting
all over, like like being being an actor and like
you know, you're not actorly in that, but it's really
bullshit because I do think somewhere in your heart you
of it. Oh no, I do love it. I'm not.
I watched this episode and I was like, I'm always thinking,
(29:05):
I'm going to think for the first time like that
was pretty good. Not watching I was like, my voice
is terrible bad ourselves though, because no one else is
thinking that, Josh, you're you're so good. Yeah, I'm not
trying to make you say Oh, We've been saying it, yo.
We've taped how many episodes already, and we are constantly
saying how great you are. And this episode doesn't even
(29:28):
it doesn't even show the caliber of your work. That
episode when you wake up and there's a dead woman
in your bed like you were, that was brilliant in
that episode, such great work wrote you like amazing. I mean,
whether or not it's to your taste. They wrote for
you sex scenes and murder and fucking jury shit and
(29:48):
like you're a school teacher and you're afraid and you're
like you got to do a lot of Yeah. Absolutely.
For the first few episode I thought I was on
a procedural. I was like, this is where you basically
give the same performance in the same character for seven
years hopefully or eight years and nine years and nothing changes.
Then like whatever. A few episodes in, I was like,
what I read the script like, she's having sex in
(30:10):
the shower. Yeah. I was just like, oh, this is insane.
And then a few more episodes later, I'm like, oh
my god, I'm part of the insanity. There's still by
the way, people who can't believe, like there's a woman
who's been tweeting the last couple of weeks like not
another sex scene with Josh Malina, like, Shanda, what are
you doing? I was like, if you think you were
surprised to be seeing me have sex, or do you
(30:30):
think how surprised I was to open a script and
be like, I'm having you and Abby. Abby and David
Rosen were like the first couple I feel like on
the show where we were like, oh my god, these
are two lead characters that were going to put together
like in a sexual scenario, and you guys had such
I was surprised you guys. Oh, you guys were really good,
(30:53):
but you were also like that that mean big brother
who would do shit to Darby. Like on set, I
remember we'd be rehearsed you're opa or wherever we had
a scene and she would be holding her side. If
she was sitting on a chair that had wheels, you
would grab her and wheel her like fifty feet away too,
or you would smack her sides like, oh josh, there
(31:15):
are definitely people listening. Now we're laughing as if it's great,
and there are people listening to how going he is,
but you're Shanda's always talking about her No, Ashole apologies,
like how did this go? I'm telling you we've talked
about this on this podcast. You won't listen to it,
so it doesn't matter. But let me tell you your face. No,
we talk about how fucking good you are. And my
(31:35):
question is I don't understand how you're that good when
you don't try and I try so hard, And how
do you memorize lines in the makeup chair? Yeah? Why
does your brain work like that? Like we just watched
the episode that where we're like, you sit and you
have this amazing monologue where you're like, stab, stab stab, Oh,
how I love to stab And it's a whole monologue
(31:57):
that's iron and Harrison like stop talking, stop talking, and
you just go on and on and on. But like,
do you never prepare or the night before look over stuff?
What's your process? That's a good question. Just because Shanda
listens to this, I want to defend myself. I take
it seriously to on a certain level. I do try.
(32:18):
I read a script once to be like, let's see
what the story is. Although if I'm probably honest, I
read my scenes first. I do that too, though I
do that too. Now that it's all delivered Electrono be,
you can just search En Rosen Rosen, like, Okay, that's
all my stuff. Now, let's figure out what's going on.
And then when it was scandal, I would always send
the script to my dad and then I'd be like,
(32:38):
so explain to me what's going on. Oh my god,
I should have done that. Me and Katie should have
done that. Send it to your dad, because sometimes we
would be like, what's happening? Yeah? I was like, my
dad and my mom are like my biggest supporters, and
they always watched it and they kept track of it.
I'm actually at their house right now, and I would
often say to my dad, so, like, talk me through,
like plot wise, I don't know why am I in
court and I'm defending who what I you remember in
(33:02):
season three and you killed that? And then so they
watch everything you ever do, like backwards and forwards, just
because they love you and they're so proud of you
pretty much. Yes, that's true. They're very very supportive Jewish parents,
so sweet. I do have a very good memory for dialogue.
I don't know what I have for Lench yesterday, but
I can remember dialogue very quickly. Has that changed since
(33:25):
COVID or in Age? No? I don't think so. Now
and now I'm doing plays, I realized how much I
had trained myself to learn dialogue quickly and forget it quickly,
Like if if I did shot this dialogue on Monday,
I knew it cold, but on Tuesday Garol had that too,
like an amazing short term memory. You can plug it
in and then the next day it's fucking gone. The
(33:46):
minute we walk off set, when that scene is done,
it's out of my brain, like it's gone. And Katie
would be like, let's try to do that scene we
did like last month, and I was like, Katie, what
are you talking about? I can't even remembering what I
would do it for fun. I memorize long haul though,
like I'm such a theater bitch. But okay, if you
had a big monologue on Scandal, would you learn it
(34:07):
the night before or always in the makeup chair? Like
what were you doing? I would definitely familiarize myself with
it the night before, feeling that and not just out
of laziness, but like some some smart person once said
to me, like, you want to learn your stuff for TV,
but just shy of knowing it cold so that it'll
appear like you're finding it a little bit, like you know,
(34:28):
seem like a human being. Yeah, it doesn't sound like
they memorize something. So I got I'm very good at
finding the line where like I got it pretty much.
I'm gonna sleep on out and gonna wake up and
in the makeup chair, I'm gonna nail it down and
I'll probably run it with the other persons also in
the makeup chair. But I do remember one awkward day
where we were all looking at our sides and I
said something like, you know, you guys reminded who's Christine?
(34:50):
And everybody just slowly looked at me in there like
are you kidding? Like the whole season is about this character,
Like I don't know, I just remember being really embarrassed.
I was like, oh, you're being see or you were
like really no, I really don't know. I was like,
I don't understand this scene. Why are we also obsessed
with Christine or whatever it was? And they were just like,
what is wrong with you? I was embarrassing. Wait, do
(35:11):
you ever think about like what do I want in
a scene? Or what's my moment before or anything? No? Right,
like you just I just think you have that same
actor chip in your brain, like like you're really good
at text obviously between Sorkin and this show, like text
is not an issue for you, and you're I'm telling you, Josh,
your work in these two seasons. I'm so jealous because
(35:31):
I know you're not right like my action or my
objective or my like you know, thinking about beats or shifts.
You You're just there. Yeah, I feel like I have
a good instinct for it. But the truth is, usually
when I watched my work, I'm like you were fine.
I'm not. I'm not. I'm not usually like you, Like
(35:52):
I'm horribly insecure. But maybe if I did some of
those things you're saying, I'd be better than Maybe. I know.
I that's what makes you so good. That's not part
of your process. Do you think that is? Like, I
think there's some effortlessness to something that's so difficult, you
making it look like it's so fucking easy. Yeah, this
(36:12):
is for ladies and gentlemen. Josh Melina is about to
be starring back on Broadway. He's been on Broadway before.
If you can catch him, you should. In leopolch Doad
written by the one and only fucking Tom Stoppard. I
already have my tickets. I'm going June tenth with eight
family members. Katie, I want to go, come with me
(36:33):
June eighth. I'm going to see any gladiators listening. June eighth,
I will be at Leopolchtads screaming and probably crying. It's
that script is remarkable, It's amazing he's writing. I was seventeen,
almost eighteen, and my dad's best friend was and still
is Manny Aisenberg's famous amazing producer who produced Tom Stoppard's
(36:53):
The Real Thing on Broadway. So I got invited to
opening night and as a seventeen year old, I was
suing and I was just like the writing like blue
my mind is writing is unreal, and that literally forty
years later, I believe him. See, this is why people
keep you around. Really quickly. Since we're talking about some
pass work, I'm gonna rattle off some of Josh's credits,
give it because I live it this up and I
(37:16):
was like, oh my God, Like, there's so much and
so much epic projects that he's done. A few good men,
the American President, Tracy takes on clock Watches with my
buddy Parker Posey, The Larry Sanders Show, Sports Night, The
West Wing, Stargate, Grey's Anatomy, I Carly and my favorite
Big Bank theory of course. But I'm also like a
huge horror film fan. And you haven't been in a
(37:37):
hart Phone, but you were in a thriller called Malice
that Aaron Sorkin also wrote. Correct. Yes, but I was
in one horror movie horror comedy called The Knights of Badass. Oh,
and I think Steve zn was in it, Peter dank Lidge.
It was comedy horror about a bunch of Larper's live
action role players. I'm gonna watch it tonight and I'm
(38:01):
coming over and I'm getting stoned and I'm watching it
with you. Yes, it was low budget to begin with
and then they didn't get the full effects budgets, like
there's I know the director is not happy with like
how it turned out, and I spoiler alert, have my
jaw ripped off as I'm being filated by a wood tea. Well, listen,
(38:22):
I went out Amazon Prime and I bought Malice because
I wanted to watch it. When I looked up your credit,
Josh plays this really cute like resident doctor or nurse
who comes out and speaks to Bill Pullman. But it's
a really fun like old school like eighties thriller movie.
Well the funny. Patrick Marber, the director, when he was
(38:42):
talking to me about potentially doing the role, said, and
you know it takes place in Vietna, but we've toyed
with doing Viens or German. We didn't do that, and
it opened in London, so everyone, you know, he said,
you don't have to sound British, but you can't sound America.
Can do in Mexican like everyone isditionalist. So you're not
(39:03):
even doing like heightened American, like like the Gilded Age
or something. No, it's pretty fifty years ago. You couldn't
get a foot in, you couldn't travel without a permit.
That's really good, Josh, it's really good. Thank you. We
will be back with more after the break now that
(39:23):
I'm trying to jog my memory about like David Rosen's journey. Okay,
so you auditioned for the role. Yes, Shanna was into you.
You went, got called to the principal's office a few times.
You had love interests with Abby Porsha and were you
also with um Artemis. Yes, our missus lovely A Susan
(39:44):
Oh and Zoe Perry and Zoe Perry and off camera
but dirty, dirty Susie whatever her name was, with the way,
we didn't when we have Shanna back on, got to
ask her like, I don't think there's a single character
on our show that went through that many Like, what's
(40:08):
that about? For sure? That is just Shana going. I
can do anything on television. I can take the least
attractive oldest member of my cast and have him have
more Susan. I'm telling you that's exactly what it is.
You were successfully pranked by us and the Jimmy Kimmel Show. Remember,
Oh Kimmel happens to be in this episode. Yes, Kimmel
(40:30):
is in an episode two one, that's right, and he's
interviewing the congressman Jacob Shaw, who's the case of the week,
and we love Kimmel, but he approached us like by
the end of Scandal, they were like, we want to
get Josh. And they spent so much money on this prank, Like, well,
first of all, I had had an idea and I
remember pitching our pr people like Bachelor has all these
(40:53):
watch parties, and the Bachelor people show up, they're surprised.
They love it, like everybody's having their wine and popcorn
Scandal watching part parties. Why don't we like surprise a
few people and like maybe it's a nice way to
go out with the final season. And they did it
through Good Morning America and Tony was the first and
this was all part of the Yeah. Then they were like, Josh,
you have to do one of these And I actually
really didn't watch, like I don't want to do it,
(41:15):
but it really speaks to your horror, which is as
much as Josh, Willie's a prankster, smartest person in the
room keeps his life interesting by like really pushing boundaries
with people. But Josh, you with fans is ridiculous, Like
you give them all the time in the world. You're
nice to say. I mean, I know you're very nice
to say that, and I know it comes from like
(41:36):
I can't believe anybody's happy to see me, so I'm like,
gotta keep your fans happy, like so you keep in business,
and like also just appreciation for people who are appreciating me,
Like Scandal fans are the best I did enjoy. So
the prank was about them asking you to show at
the end of this run. You know, they asked me
and Josh to come to a Scandal Roch watch party
(41:58):
and they we knew they would be watching Scandal and
we would walk in and it was up to me
to convince Josh that he should use a confetti blower thing.
And when we call in, god one of those guns
a confetti cannon. I remember, we go in, they're watching
Candle Can See and we pop in with our with
our camera. Boom, I pulled the confettiti hey, and like
(42:19):
everyone's laughing and having fun. And then I see the
mom in her chair like seemed really startled by the
confetti can clutching her chest for this and she's actually
clutching her chest and I'm starting to think, like, oh,
that was this is bad. We really, we really scared
this woman. Then I'm like, oh, no, she'sn't. Actually she's
a medical discomper, and I will admit it was nice
(42:41):
enough to like I definitely I went over and I
think I held her hand and I was trying to
calm down. The one thing I did was also cover
my ass because I'm thinking that if she died, did
I kill her? Is this like second agreement? Voluntary? Man?
And you can see me in the actual video of
the press. I'm only being quiet because I can't believed this. No,
I'm saying, and I say to her something like they
(43:02):
handed me the thing, or yeah, it wasn't my idea,
sort of like I'm trying to lay down my legal
case for when And then next thing I know, I
hear I hear a siren and like an ambulance has
been called, and I'm like, oh my god, this is
actually happening. And the paramedics burst through with the COT
(43:26):
but one of the paramedics is Jimmy Kimmel, and my
mind is like, what's going on? And I'm like, why
You've got me so bad? They throw me into the stretcher.
I'm deeply embarrassed, but also usually really that I didn't
kill this woman. And they wheel me outside, and unbeknownst
to me, they were concerned that I would not fall
for it and they wanted to back up freaking frank.
(43:47):
So there's a fire engine in the driveway and I
get sit up and they blast me from the what
Oh yeah, they blasted with a fire hole the old
lady actress. I had been there all day rehearsing for
like three hours, like different ways the scene could go.
(44:07):
I have never done a prank in my entire life.
I am so wildly uncomfortable with making people upset or
feel bad or like pranking to me is like I'm
one of those people that gives it up right away.
I'm like, I'm just kidding, We're just so. Then I
remember the garage door slowly opening and there's like video
(44:30):
village is in there, and we all have earbuds in
like all the actors in a scene. The older woman
who pretend to have a heart attack me, we had
earbuds in case. The director was like, oh, it was insane.
They spent like a billion dollars. It was insane. And
also I remember before we did it, our publicist. I
think it was Chris and Anderson at the time, calling
you and saying, do you know if Josh has ever
(44:51):
had a heart attack or if someone recently that he
loves has had a heart attack, because we want to
do this, but we also like don't want it to
go horribly awry in case it like God, we don't know,
like maybe his aunt or someone just had a heart
attack and he's just going to be Oh, that's actually
very unwell. And I remember thinking afterwards I wish I
(45:12):
had been onto what they were doing. If I figured
it out, I could have then pretended myself to have
a heart attack and see if I could survived it.
I would not have the best man ever. But unfortunately,
it turns out that the fact that you do practical
jokes and pranks for thirty years doesn't mean that you're
(45:32):
any less gullible than anybody else. Because I fell for
it completely. I remember actually texting Kimmel when I was
going to bed that night. I was like, well done,
and he rubbed back to me like was that real?
Did you really fall for that? Like he actually almost
couldn't believe it. I was like, dude, that was a
h but how could you not? That wasn't just like
a run of the mill fucking thing. I mean that
(45:54):
was like actors who would rehearse if we were doing
the drop in for Kimmel's, if you would have America
my mind. But I don't think good Morning America is
doing this. Nothing occurred. Luckily you have Kimmel's phone number.
Fucking Katie has sean to rhyme's phone number number. Wait
(46:15):
really quickly about this episode? What was the parts and
you watched last night that you thought you were uh yeah,
in the courtroom. I have memories of shooting this episode
because it was a lot of me. It was a
lot of a lot of people sitting well, I strut
around doing things, and part of it was literally vocally,
(46:36):
I was like, I don't sound like you want to
you know when you're like, and isn't it true you
want to be one of those you say what the hell? Hell?
You keep saying what the hell when they let Quinn
in this episode to jog all of your listeners memory,
this is the episode where who is Quinn Perkins? Who
is Quinn Perkins? But wait, okay, so you thought your
acting was bad? You say what the hell? A lot
what did you feel like when you read this script?
(46:57):
Not about this episode where Darby us to put her
hand in your mouth or you're something like that. I
felt very similarly to the way I felt when I
finally watched it. I was like, I don't know what's
going on? Is this supposed to be sexy? Is this
some sort of BDSM? Is this? And I was hot?
(47:18):
I read it, we shot it, I watched it, and
I still never figured out what Josh I can't um Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,
there's more, There's more, this more, okay. This is the
first episode that marked both Bellama Young and Josh Molina
a series regulars. You guys went to Yale, but not
at the same time. She is younger than I, so
she she knew who I was. She did not, She
(47:41):
did no, I think, because I think we were actually
maybe in Guys and Dolls together. The idea that she
may have had a smaller roller or been in the
ensemble and I had a lead. It's funny because I
can't sing and she has a beautiful voice. Did you
do a ton of plays in college? Josh? I did. Yeah,
I'm an undergraduate theater said he's major. Every now and
then people think like, oh, you went to Yale drama school.
I'm like, no, I went to the other one and
(48:02):
was a drama made. I went to the knot because
they just drama school, but I knew I wanted to
be an actual already, and my parents were like, for
the love of God, get a college degree. Also, what
it was your degree in. It's not like it didn't
help me at all with acting and wouldn't have helped
me in anything else. Do you remember what the first
play was that you did? There? I do, I did.
(48:24):
Christopher Durrang's sister, Mary Ignatius explains it all. Wow, do
you have any memories from the first two seasons that
stick out? Do you have any memories from the pilot?
I remember shooting those scenes at the door with Kerry
and scene in a bar with Kerry. Most of my
stuff was with Kerry, and I just remember liking her
(48:46):
a lot, like like I just remember vibing like she's cool.
First of all, Like whenever the number one person on
the culture it is cool. It's like, yeah, this is
a very good sign. Did you feel like at the
end of season one, like we're definitely going to get
a season too? Did you feel like it would was
going to be one hundred and twenty four episodes show.
I just remember early on thinking it was a procedural approach,
(49:08):
and procedurals, if they hit, they last a long time. Yeah,
they last a long time, and they're they're worth a
lot in syndication because you can play him in any
order and it doesn't matter, and people can pop in
and watch a rerun or whatever. And then once it
started turning into this insane show that was burning through plot,
I was like, oh my god, this episode has as
much plot as a full season of another show, Like
(49:29):
this cannot sustain. So I started getting nerves. Even as
the show was getting like better and more interesting and
crazy and it was fun, I was like, this is
gonna this might be a death sentence. We'd already shot
the president by like the thirteenth episode in it, It's like,
what the fuck are I gonna do? No, exactly. I
underestimated the fiendish creative mind of Shanda Rhimes and her
writers because like they never had any problem coming up
(49:52):
with seven plots per episode that were completely insane, and like, oh,
they can keep this running as long as they want,
Like this is why I'm not a writer and they are.
But then I also remember when it was like taking
off on Twitter and I was like again literally like
butterflies on my stumble, Like I think this maybe turning
into a thing like everybody's talking about and people are
(50:12):
stopping me in the street, Like it really was a
fun ride with an incredible group of people, Like to
get one of those in a career is like more
than you can hope for. I remember thinking, is this
going to be like a Graze Anatomy situation? Like are
we gonna go for like twelve thirteen seasons? And then
you know, obviously Shanda knew there was a beginning, middle,
and an end to the to the show, and she
(50:33):
let us know that it was ending it. But I
think we were all so bummed, right because the network
wanted us to keep going. I was like, wait what,
I know. I was definitely. I even remember as Shanda
was telling us in the conference call like that she
was ending it. I was text neighbor and we're like, god, yeah,
you were texting me like oh yeah, like how could
(50:55):
you we have the white whale? We have the fucking
white hat. Yeah, you're the best. I'm so excited to
see you. Yeah, this is so much fun. I realized
how much I'm missing that. When I don't see you,
I don't miss you at all. But now that I'm
seeing you, I really I was like I did like
them more than they realized. To our gladiators, I haven't
earned it a dime since the show went off the air,
(51:16):
but thank you for that brief window in my life
when I didn't have to worry about money for like
five years. It's awesome all because of you, guys, Josh,
you had the best. We love you. Love you, guys.
Tell George we love him and we'll be bugging him asap.
I'll tell him he's not on the show. Twe tweetie, tweet, tweet, tweet,
(51:37):
twet tweet. Oh my god. People were fucking pumped from
these tweets because this was the fucking season two premiere
at ABC. Scandal fans tweet so ready for at Scanal
babyc premiere hashtag one minute, don't hate hashtag, asked Scandal,
and Lisa at Belenoir tweeted homemade shrimp hashtag I'm fancy
(52:02):
retweet call me dolla. What y'all bringing to the Scandal
watch party? So she made some cocon A shrimp and
brought it to a Scandal watch party. A m at
Everybody Loves DJ wrote, I'm ready to find out who
the hell Quinn is tonight hashtag scandal ugh real yah
at two Underscore, tol says, what the fuck is Quinn Perkins?
(52:23):
Hashtag Scandal, hashtag gladiers in suits? Everyone's talking about Quinn
at Chrissy B. Davis wrote, I had so many thoughts
as to who Quinn could be. Will be happy to
finally find out tonight hashtag scandal. I like that, And
then Aaron at Aaron J. Cruise tweeted who of the
Scandal cast is the most like the character they play?
(52:46):
Hashtag asked Scandal. That's when we were doing that hashtag
asked Scandal And then we would, you know, answer as
many questions as we could, Yes, we did. Hashtag as
Scandal forever. Who do you think is most like the
character that they play? Fucking I think Carrie Washington as Olivia.
I think so too in some ways. In some ways
(53:06):
she's Olivia is not goofy, right, and Carrie's got a
lot of Olivia popiner. I think I and Quinn have
a lot of smarties. I think Josh Molina and David
Rosen have some stuff. Everybody has a little bit of it,
you don't, I mean, you know in the in the
being quiet and sometimes wanting to be alone, and I
(53:27):
could see that being you know, similar to myself and
to talk. Yeah, but howk you literally make your voice
and the mask of your face different. Oh yeah, Like
you do things as your face is garmo that you
don't do on your face as huk. That's so true.
That's so true. Like you have a mask that actually
like changes, which is fucking amazing to behold. Yeah. The
(53:50):
next episode is called Grant for the People People. I
don't remember what the fuck happened. I have no idea,
but y'all are going to want to listen and stay
tuned because you know it's going to be a good time.
We gotta go watch it now, so we're ready for
the next episode of this podcast. Any Gladiators that don't
think Josh Willne is hot enough to have a sex
scene leave him alone. He's so hot. I think he's sexy, sexy.
(54:14):
I do too. Also, I'm so jealous that he's going
to have lunch right now with George Newburn of the
Century City Mall, we should go crashtass ship right now,
he invited us. Did you get that text? No, I
haven't even looked at my phone because we're doing a podcast.
He texted us yesterday saying, Yo, I'm not sure what
time you guys stopped recording, but I'm going to have
lunch with George Newburn if you both like to come.
(54:35):
Oh I didn't get that, but whatever, we don't want
to go anyway. That is, yeah, but yo, Josh is
so freaking smart and talented and fun to talk to,
Like we could have done this for like three more hours,
you know, Like he's so much fun. I love all
the best, and he really was an important energy on Scan.
(54:57):
He really wasn't important. He has so many great episodes
where his work is superstellar. So we're definitely going to
have him back. Yes, absolutely. I love you all so much.
Thank you for listening. Thank you everyone, Thank you guys
for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed
(55:18):
the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or
leave us a review. Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Alex AlCH, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang and Gabrielle Collins. Our
producer and editor is Vince De Johnny, with music by
Chad Fisher. Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and
you can follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu. Unpacking
(55:39):
the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the
iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Guillermo Díaz
Katie Lowes
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