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December 21, 2023 44 mins

It’s no secret that Scandal had a lot of plot threads happening all at once – Defiance, Huck in alcoholic’s anonymous, Olitz, Abby and David Rosen, plus the case-of-the-week to boot! Which is why it’s completely understandable that Katie and Guillermo get confused as to what’s going on in this episode. Twice. But don’t worry – they dive into the amazing performances of Kerry Washington and the guest stars, and even cover some of the pressing questions like… Who’s the top in James and Cyrus’ relationship? 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with Higheartradiots, Katie Loves Well, Oh man, here we go.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
We should like do this.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Scandal Rewatch podcast Yale Unpacking the Toolbox Here Madias and.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Katie Los Katie. The last time I was thinking, do
you go by just Katie Low's? Are you Katie Low Shapiro?
Are you hyphenated last name? You said? Hell? No, I'm
fucking Katie Lows, bitch. You know what I was in
the bear? Don't you know who I am?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Anyway, Well, today we're talking about episode two oh two, Yes,
the Other Woman, which aired on October fourth in twenty twelve,
written by Heather Mitchell and directed by Stephen Cragg.

Speaker 2 (01:15):

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yes, and the guest star list is but we gotta
name it because here on the Scandal Rewatch podcast we
respect our guest stops.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes, because they're usually like pretty freaking amazing. Yeah. I
mean the first main big one is uh Lorraine Toussain,
who plays Nancy Drake, who is just a wonderful actress.
She's she's one of those people that when you see
her face, so you see her in one thing, you're like,
oh my god, I've seen her in a thousand things,
like she's in so much, she's a she's from Trinidad.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Nice fun fact.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, nice fun fact there. But yeah, she's amazing. And
then we got Elise Neil and John Diel Dial. How
do you say that?

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Maybe we'll just give it a deal, Dial Dial deal,
John deel Dal deal.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
We got Leslie and John Deal played Ragewire. Who's Lindsay
Dwyer's dad?

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh that I watched this episode And now we're starting
to get into the part of the Scandal Rewatch podcast
Unpacking the two Box where I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Remember shooting that.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
No, really, I distinctly remember standing with you outside of
that motel.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I remember that later in the episode.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yes, we'll talk about I do not remember shooting the
scene with the dad.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
No, no, no, do you remember that? Do you remember
the lady staring at Quinn at Lindsay Dwyer. Yo. I
wish we could have gotten her name and given her
a shout out because homegirl is so freaking good and
committed and annoying. Oh she's just perfect for the role.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Oh dare this Smallotov mistress bitch come and sit in
and have a fucking coffee in our small fucking at
a looma California town.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
With her omelet on her plate that she never touches.
I wrote in my notes, is it a wig or
not a whig?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Not a wig?

Speaker 1 (03:04):
It's not a wig.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
I do kind of remember that woman. The other people
we have is Leslie Grossman is Lisa, who's the DC corner.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
She was amazing. Marcus Bonoza's Chairman of Joint Chiefs.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Greg Henry is Hollis Doyle, Debraah Mooney is Verna Thornton,
who is constant recurring. Wendy Davis is Kimberly Mitchell. San
McMurray is the US attorney Pat Wexler. Joe Holt, who's
a friend of mine. As Secretary, he defends Virginia Louise
Smith as Secretary of State.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
J Jackson's local anchor.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
If y'all don't remember this episode, let's just jog yie,
old memory, y old memory.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Olivia has to deal with the ramifications of Quinn's jaw
dropping court verdict as Abbey continues to press Olivia for
answers and Quinn takes a trip back home. The firm
represents the widow of a very prominent pastor who had
a secret life with his mistress and son. Olivia works
on striking a deal to keep Pastor Drake's other life
a secret before the funeral. Meanwhile, in the White House,
Cyrus and Fitz deal with a foreign policy emergency that

was potentially fabricated by the CIA. What the hell, dude?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
That was stupendous.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
I also think your scandal pace is always so good
because I understand what you're saying, like you're putting the
inflection on the correct word.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Listen, I thank you, But I always understand your scandal pace.
So anyway, I have.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
To admit sometimes I'm just not smart enough for this show.
And either all of the CIA fabrication of what was
going on, I was like, wait, hold up, mehy they
do that?

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I was like, Yo, I know shit is corrupt, but
what the hell?

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Why are they just making a fucking photo of gen
children in Sudan?

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Is it because the dude that did it? What is
he the head of the CIA? Is it because he's
he wants the president to go to war and he's
a Republican and he wants me I don't fucking know.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
I was confused too well, let it be known here
that Gar and I on this rewatch podcast we don't
completely understand what's going on.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Which listen, listen. I feel like a lot of the audience,
our listeners will understand. And it's okay because this show
has so much in it that it doesn't matter. Yes,
But also, Katie, do you remember ever being on set
like and I'd be like, I know me. Mostly I'd
be like, Katie, I don't know what's happening, Like, what's
happening on the show.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Because yes, I remember we see the start of this
episode that Olivia and the President have started this relationship
where they're like old school fucking late night phone calls ye,
where they're just like talking about their life and Olivia's
in bed and she's like it can't keep taking calls
from my married ex boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yes, yeah, which is so cute.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I think it's like.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
It's really normal.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, weird to see them like normal, Like they're not
at a white House dinner, they're not like on the trail,
they're not doing any of those things.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
They're literally just like talking on the phone.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, gossiping, right, They're just like like telling each other's
shit from their day and stuff. Yeah it's okay. You know,
for those of those of us who are little on
the older side, that's the way we used to chat
with the people we were seeing or dating or whatever.
You'd be on the phone for freaking hours.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Oh my god. Yeah, my parents got me.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
I mean, this is some bougie ash fucking white privilege
shit right here. My parents were my sixteenth birthday, I
think got me my own phone line. I got my
own fucking line because I think my parents found out
that it was like twenty five more cents like a
fucking hour or whatever if they just gave me my
own phone, because I was clogging that shit up, Like
I was on the phone all day with bitches and

fucking night with boyfriends.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Like I was just oh, yeah, that's the way it
went down.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah yeah, Heremo, you didn't have your own line now.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
No, we had one phone hanging in the hallway of
our New York City Washington Heights apartment with a cord.
The only time it got bougie for us is when
my parents are like, we're like, we're gonna to buy
a longer cored. I'd walk into like the bathroom and
close the door in the kitchen.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
You'd have to hawk is a AA.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yep. I think this is the first time, right Katie,
that we see him.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah, I think this is the first time we see
you howk in AA.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah. I remember shooting the scene, the AA scene because
it was like just a few blocks away from Sunta Gower,
which is where the stage is where we shot Scandal,
And it was like in the basement of a church,
if I'm not mistaken, and it was really cool. And also,
you know, I was gonna I was gonna say too,
I have a sort of a history with A because
my ex used to be in AA. But I used

to go to the meetings with him. And I'm not
an alcoholic. Well maybe i am, but no, just a
little bit. But I don't have a.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Problem, no disrespect it is with you, I know, no, no,
no no. But you have a personal relationship to being
a Alana.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah yeah, yeah, right. But I used to go to
the meetings and get so much out of them, like
I really enjoyed because it's all about you know, very
spiritual yes, and lifting the person up and giving them encouragement.
It was it was wonderful and I really got a
lot out of it. Those rooms are really really special.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
And so for you to get to stand there and
talk about fucking killing.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
People, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well that's why I thought about
me going to the meetings, because I would go, But
it wasn't about having an addiction. It was I was
just getting a lot more out of it just for
life in general. And so, so huck Is doesn't have
an alcohol problem either, he's going because he's you know,
whiskey represents him killing people and torturing people. So I

wonder if they would have done like a like coverage
of like the with the people in the meeting, like
what the fuck is this guy talking about? Because he's like,
I'm really good at drinking with.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I don't think they ever flip it around.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
They never flip around.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
No interesting, but oh no, it totally works.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
I actually never even realized it until you just said that, Yeah,
Quinn is being a stupid bid bitch.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Quinn is so like's.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Apartment and I'm like so mad, and so like, why
is anyone telling me anything? Anyone messed up my life
and no one's telling me why. And I mean, I
don't know if other people got that out of my performance,
but I definitely felt like nails on a chalkboard watching.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
I think people fuck Whenn's frustration, right, I love this year.
Her line to Olivia is like I got more sleep
in prison.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Oh my god, they tossed that away into a pillow
because I doubt my acting choice was at all.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Now I wasn't in these scenes.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
But the episode features like the America's pastor, Pastor Drake,
who's incredible and obviously have this like very public beautiful
marriage to U Lorraine Tucson's character Nancy Drake, but the
whole time, for fifteen years he's been stripping this other
woman named Anna Gordon. But you find the episode in

like a classic Olivia Pope Opa handling the situation where
the wife calls they can't find Pastor Drake. You guys
get led to a camera across the street from the
hay Adams Hotel, and you are in the hotel and
you hear like ah, and they open the door and

they find Pastor Drake.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
On top, oh, top of his mistress.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
And she's handcuffed to the bed, and no one knows
it first until Huck kind of runs in and checks
and knows, like right away, the guy's been dead and
she's been like stuck under the air because the bro
is like three hundred and fifty pounds.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, home was a big boy. What I found so
amusing was watching the episode and the first thing that
happens is Huck rushes in check is his pulse and
he's like he's been dead. Was sohow is whatever the
fuck I said? And then Abby says something in Olivia
and then there's a moment we're all just standing there
like hmm, what do we do now? And the whole
time watching the episode, I was like, this girl is

stuck under this large as man and nobody's like there
was no nobody in rush to be like They're just like, dude.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
I didn't I'm gonna have to go back and wash
because I did not catch that at all. I love
the part of this scene is this this This is
the scene where she's like, what do you need to
do to get rid of the body? And you're like
five hundreds and you're like, you're like lusty. You're like lusty,
like describing all the tools in which you would need
to dispose of a body this big, and she'say, I

mean to just move the body?

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Oh yeah, oh well then just like and your body
some sheets. Yeah, you're like, you're.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
So psyched that you were going to cut this dude up.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, but he's also super embarrassed, I think because he's like,
oh my.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
God, You're like, oh my god, I'm so fucked up.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, Like clearly you clearly Huck knows he has a
problem because you're going to aa so like you know
that things are a in your mental health.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, and he could feel himself, you know, slipping, Yes,
and I'm going closer to the dark side. But yeah,
that was such a great mind. Olivia's look to Huck
is like, motherfucker, I was talking about moving him, not
chopping him up. Is so good, so good. But she's
also like, you know, like there's the fright in her face, like,

oh my god, this motherfucker was ready.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
To check him up in the midst of this whole
montage about moving his body because their goal is to
like clean up the scene, which is super illegal, and
to get that body back to in bed where he
would live, like I mean, so that they can sort
of stage it, like keeping his rep clean. That like

if he's not found with the hooker, but he's found
that he just like had a heart attack in bed
then it would be much better for his look and
his wife's reputation and his legacy and all of that.
But in the midst of all these scenes, there's such
a great scene between Dan Bucatinski and Jeff so much
where he's yes, I hate that I married a Republican.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yes I want a baby, a fat one, a smushy one.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yes, it's so cute.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Oh it's so good. You know. I wrote down in
my notes that they they fight like a real couple.
I mean, because we see couples on TV all the time,
and sometimes, you know, you kind of get the chemistry,
sometimes you don't. But I feel like like Dan and Jeff,
like their chemistry was fire from the beginning, like they
just it just clicked. But also Jeff, Jeff and Dan.

I was gonna say Jeff, because Jeff is a you know,
as a straight man. He's married to Linda Lowe, who
was our casting director, and but he Jeff is such
an amazing, fucking skilled Like he's one of those actors
that just is no joke. He's a genius. So I
knew he was going to approach this gay character with
you know, just complete completely embracing it and being as

real as possible and not having any hang upsot it,
and that comes across you know what I mean, Like
they really come across as a real couple.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
They totally do. And I think, I think when we
have a mom will have to ask him.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
But I'm pretty sure he's played gay characters multiple times
in his I think, yeah, I think he's played that,
like from his early twenties on. I think what's probably
weirdest for them is that, And I can't wait to
ask them about this, is that Jeff and Dan have
been real life friends for.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Like twenty years. Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
I'm sure that it had nothing.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
To do with that.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
It would be weird if you were a girl too,
But like they have to like make out, you know
what I mean, Like like Linda cast Don Ruth, Dan
Bugatinski's husband, Don Ruth is a big screenwriter and Linda
cast his movies like twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
They've all four been friends for a very long time.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Wow, And so I think it was probably weirder than
anything that. Like Jeff, oh shit, I'm don't have to
make up with like a dear friend of mine, you know,
than anything else.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Oh Okay, what about this part.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Who was it in the script that all the OPA
people use the same deodorant?

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Oh my god, I wrote notes on that too, right.
I think they were trying to give the feeling on
the show that obviously they've been up all night and
moving this guy and they're probably sweating, and they're all
passing this deodorant. It's such an odd but like it's
such an odd but interesting moment. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yes, and you're the only one. Huk is the only
one that does its.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Dirty ass and he's probably the one that needs it
the most. I was like, what are you what are
you doing? Like, put that ship under your arms. It's secret.
We all know how strong secret is.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
It won't pick up this skank ass shit from one
person's arms to another.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Like I feel like.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
It's a secret magic about secret that like you're gonna
be fine.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
That is.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
I just loved it, Like I thought it was so
familial and like we've been up all night and we
have no fucking boundaries.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, and there's no I love it.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
No one's even commenting on this, Like, no one's like
and it's just like happening while you're working on the case. Yeah,
And then we get to oh. I think this is
when Quinn goes this sear, oh no, you come and
you realize I'm gone, and I Quinn goes to see
your dad, which I don't remember this.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
I don't remembering this scene.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
John John Deal Deal Deal Dal Deal. He's a fucking
dope actor. I love him. I love this. Oh yeah,
he's been a ton of stuff. I looked up. I
looked him up on IMDb and IMDb and he's done
over one hundred and thirty one hundred and forty films
and TV shows. Yeah, way, yeah. Some of his credits

are escaped from or what's my number? I haven't but
I'm going to write right after we finish this podcast
at my numbers ship. But in the meantime, John Deal
Deal Dal Deal Deal, he was in Escape from Me,
he was in Miami Vice, The Outer Limits, X Files. Yeah. Anyway,
he's been in a ton of stuff and he's really

great in the episode you know.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
What's slowly coming back for me, which is making me sad.
What is I.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Kind of remember vaguely him saying like, oh, this is
so great.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
I get cast as your dad. They're going to be
bringing me back a lot.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
O so many Katie, I feel like so many actors
and even me, I remember saying that to some actors,
like when they were cast like a Cux girlfriend. I'd
be like, oh my god, this is awesome. You're for
sure coming back. And then I'd be like, oh, they
killed this bitch off.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Oh good, well, body, all your girlfriends had a pretty
long run.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Actors are so like, we have to be nomadic. That's
how it is.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
It's actually like unheard of to stay in want any
one job for a long time, which was why scandal
is such a unicorn.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, but most of.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
The time that's not our story, and we go where the.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Wind takes us.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
I mean, I've been cut out of so much fucking shit,
and everyone has their story of like they've been fired,
and then there's like amazing miracle stories like Bellamy Young,
who I think was only to do like three episodes
in season one or something. Yeah, So you know, there's
like ups and downs and it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
But I do.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Remember the dad being like, oh man, I think they're
gonna call me.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Back, and I'm just like, fuck, man, no, I don't.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
I don't remember what I said, but probably not something
that made him feel any better, Go get a snack
and we'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Okay. Then what happens Giermo.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Well, how goes to check on Quinn? Is the next
thing that I have that sort of happens? Right? Yes, right.
Olivia's like, go check on Quinn because she was a
little bit jumpy this morning when you said asleep better
in prison all that stuff. So Fu goes to check
on Quinn. She's nowhere to be found.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yep, because I went to Petaluma, California to visit my
daddy to try to get back to them in my
normal life.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
We're already at the point where you're meeting up with
your dad and and Huck somehow miraculously shows up there,
and Quinn's like, what the hell are you doing here? Like?
Can I not go anywhere without you? People like following me.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
I kind of remember shooting that.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
I feel like I have photos of that day that
I have to find, right, But Hucks, like, you have
such a beautiful monologue to me. But we're at some
like Motel six where I feel like, my god, you
and I shot there like a thousand times. I don't
know why you kind of shot there. Season one when
you like abducted me and you had to, like I

feel like you had to like throw me over your
shoulder and I was like, I am so sorry.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Was that in season? Was that season one? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Maybe it was when they do the flashback and somebody's
like watching me. I think maybe even Susie poorfar As
character is like standing outside of the motel and you
see like Huck take me away, and yes, I kind
of remember vaguely me being like, oh my god, I
can't believe you have to haul me over your fucking shoulder.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Like that was not safe.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
It does no matter how heavy or light you are,
that she is not safe. Not good for a body.
I do not like when anyone picks me up. It
makes me feel wildly and secure. There's only one person
who does it all the time, and it's fucking Scott Fully.
He does my entire relationship with Scott Fully. I love
this man so much.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Picking you up. I've never seen him pick you up.
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
He's always picking me up like a baby sister. He's
like my older frap brother. But he'll always be like
and he only calls me kat Q. He'll ask him
when he comes on a kt Q and he comes
on and he picks me up. Okay, so you come
and we have this awesome scene at the motel where
Hawk is like Overcoon's shoulders and he's like, this is
where they took you.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
And I'm like, something's I don't.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Know what are you talking about yet? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh yeah that's what I say, what are you talking about?
And you say, no, this is where they took you. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Seven people might have been blown up that day in Cytron,
but it wasn't seven.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
It was really eight eight that died. Yeah. I remember
shooting that scene Katie, and it was so hot. We're
shooting it in Hollywood, a few blocks I think it
was a few blocks away from Sunset Gower. Again it
was yeah, like.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
For us on Sunset Boulevard where these people by the
hour pieces of ship.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
But it was so hot outside and they wardrobe came
to me with a jacket and I remember being like,
what you want me to put on this jacket? And
they were like, yeah, you got to wear a jacket,
and I remember just being so upset and I fought
back and forth. I was like, but he could have
left it in the car all and they were like, no,
you gotta put on the jacket.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
We always did that ship where we would try to
talk to him like I don't.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Need a bag.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
I don't need a bag.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
I have in my pockets, and they like, you have
to wear a bag. I don't need a jacket. Quinn
ran out of O PA. She doesn't need a jacket.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
And they're like, it is put your jacket on in.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
D C and no one will.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Believe it unless there's a fucking wool pea coat on
you exactly.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
But it was such a great Yeah, that was a
really really sweet scene. And then and then he hands
her a coffee and then they you know, and then
they cut to the next scene. I loved it. In
this episode, Quinn is saying goodbye to Lindsay Dwyer. Right.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, it's either like you accept this new life and
this new identity and jump both feet into working at
OPA and stop being a little bit.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Stop looking back, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Or like leave but like you can't.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
This life that you're running back to try to get
doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah. I was watching the show too and looking at
that scene and thinking if this was me Giarmo who
they had done that to, I would be like help me.
I'd be like like a big old sobbing like mess,
like please somebody put me in a hospital. I can't
do it is.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Like stranger thing'd be.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Like what alternate reality plane of existence? Are you telling
me that I'm not the person I was? And here's
my new fucking identity. His boyfriend's been murdered and I've
been in a part of a huge fucking trial and
I miraculously got off Like yeah, no one's telling me anything,
like it's insane, insane. The next scene that I think

is is jumping to like the what makes this episode
so great is where Huck says, let's go home, and
you see what sort of accept like my new home
is Opa, and my new home is the identity of
Quinn Perkins. Yes Live and Fits are talking on the
phone about Pastor Drake and there this is where we
get into that thing we were talking about of it
just being like normal and they're just like on their

phone and they're hysterical laughing because she confides and Fits
about how Pastor Drake actually died, Yeah, and he was
king Ki and and they're like hysterical and it's so cute.
Like the scene totally takes a turn because Olivia is
realizing through this episode that she is the mistress. Like

the whole episode is the parallel between Lorraine Tucson is
Nancy Drake being Melly and Elise Neil Azanna Gordon being Olivia. Like,
Olivia will never get the twenty Christmases that Melli gets
to be with. Right, She'll never have Fitz's babies, She'll
never She'll always.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Be the mistress, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, And Olivia's sort of realizing it unfold as she's watching,
you know, her sort of experience unfolding in like the case.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Of the week.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
It's like mirroring her experience with it. Yeah, it's so
so cool.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
And she screams at him, I want you to cancel
the autopsy.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's what I want. I know.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
It goes from them cracking up and like being like
all cute see with each other to her like flipping
out and being like, yeah, this is what I want.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
And just screaming her fucking head off.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Fitz is whipped because he does it. He makes it happen.
He gives Olivia what she wants, and.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
He just did it in the episode before, Yeah, doesn't
he because he lets Quinn He's the reason why, you know,
when Quinn's entire case just gets sort of shelved and
David Rosen jumps up and he's like, what the hell
in only the way that Josh Malina can, but you realize,
like she keeps getting into deep doodoo, but she knows

she can because she can always fucking call the bat phone.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, and I think she knows that she's gotten wrapped
around her little finger, like she knows, she knows he's
going to do what she says.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah, okay. Lorraine Tussant has that most amazing scene
with Melly. Lorraine Tussan's character Nancy Drake is supposed to
have this like sit down for the press with Melly
about the America's pastor passing away, and she's taken some
ship which looked so fun, right, and that's see when

Olivia is looking at her, he's kind of like, did
you take something?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
She's like, yeah, Zena, I don't know what. She's oh god.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
Right now, and Olivia is like, we'll take some car.
And then Mellie sits down and she's like, my wife,
my husband was cheating on me and there wait, what
did you say? And Mellie's like give us the room.
I just think we need a private moment to pray.
And then there's amazing monologues where like, of course, I
mean Scott Scandal, television does not get monologues too for

gladiators listening, Like every TV show that G and I
have been on, which is a lot, monologues are a
theatrical theater vehicle. They're not in TV. So to be
on Scandal, where people got I mean Jeff Perry's character
fits his character, Olivia Huck, Joe Morton, everybody got beautiful monologues,

and they trusted the actors to be able to hold
the screen like for minutes alone, like not popping back
and forth around between people.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's just like like mouthwatering monologues like we were. I
remember always being so excited when we would get our monologues.
I mean, we'd be sort of scared. In the beginnings.
We were like, oh my god, it's so many words.
But then it was like reciting a soliloquy. It was
just so so good. It was so satisfying to say
the words. But also in this scene, I'm glad they
didn't go for like the cookie cutter sort of angle

before we see Melly consoling missus Drake. Olivia is telling
Missus Drake just say thank you, just say thank you
to everybody, just you know, just look at them and
say thank you. But in that moment, Lorene Tussan's character
tells Melly he was cheating on me or whatever she says.
It's real, Like that's real life. I feel like that's
what a woman would do in that moment and be like,

fuck that shit, he was cheating on me, a freaking cheater.
It was just such a real moment. It snaps you
out of show for a second because you're like, oh, shit,
like this is She's telling her the truth. It's so good,
it's so juicy, it's so great.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
It's so good. Those two ladies are Oh, they're so
fucking good together.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
And who better to console like right for missus Drake
than Mellie, who is you know, experiencing the same thing
with Olibya and her husband.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Ye, And then I wrote down David Rosen gets canned.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
He sure does.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
God we are about to embark on season two should
just be called Let's shop on David Rosen the entire season,
which Let's get gladiators, Let's get humped, this guy gets fucked,

not in a good way, right and left. Like, this
guy gets fired sexually scared. Yes, people are hunting him down.
He's it is a mess his life. This is the
beginning of the worst shit ever for this guy.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
So let's put a pause on that.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, and also, just real quick, the gentleman who fires
David Rosen. And the actor's name is Sam McMurray, who
is another I think Katie. When I looked him up,
he had like one hundred and ninety nine credits, film
credits and TV credits. Yes, and I've done two things
with him. I did a show called United We Fall
with him, and I did a movie called Second Serve

with him. He was also in Adams Family Values, he
was on The Golden Girls, he was on Miamivice. Yes, anyway,
this actor is amazing. His name is Sam McMurray.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
He's one of those I've never known him. I didn't
work with him on the Skin, but when I watched this,
I was like, oh my god, that dude.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
He's one of those dudes that has literally been in
fucking everything.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yes, yes, yes, okay, that's There's an emotional scene in
the episode where the wife grabs the mistress and her
son and takes everybody goes up to the casket to
say goodbye to Pastor Drake.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
And it's so listen, emotional and great.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
I don't know if Mercury is in retrograde this month,
but I fucking sobbed again watching this episode, in that
moment when she grabs her out of the pew and
she's like come, like she grabs her and like pulls it,
like like tugs in.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Her closes man and we are going to say goodbye
to him and bury him.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Oh my gosh, it's so good.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
And can we talk for a second about Elise Neil
alist Neil was in Scream two Get directed by Wes Craven.
She played She played one of the friends, one of
Sydney's friends in the beginning of the film and then
she I believe she gets murdered. I have to go
back and watch it. But also Scream. She's in Scream two,
and Scott Foley is actually in Scream three. He's the

killer in Scream three.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Katie, See, I don't watch horror movies because I'm terrified
and hate them and so scared.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yes, I had no idea. Yeah, Scream three.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
That scene is beautiful, is beautiful, and they followed up
with an amazing another great scene between Melly and Fits
where they're in the limo and Melly is just like,
you have to forgive me, you have to forgive me,
you have to forgive me, like because they're like our
friend of ours just died, like either of us could
die tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
And he's like, I forgive you.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
And they kiss, but then they as soon as they
sort of kiss and hug, not a real kiss, it's
like a peck, yeah, and like a quick hug, and
then they move back apart to the opposite sides of
the windows in the in the limo, and it's like,
my god, these people are so fucking broken.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Well mostly Fits, right, Fits is kind of the one.
He's like holding her and telling I forgive you, and
then he goes back to his paperwork and Mellie's like hello, Yeah, She's.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Like this relationship is fucked. Oh and she's pregnant.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
And she's pregnant Katie. This is one of those moments
which I'm embarrassed to say. I was like, what is
she asking him to forgive her for?

Speaker 2 (31:36):
I know?

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Is it? Because just all the does he know about
He doesn't know about Cytron and all that stuff yet, right.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
No, but you know, well, well she knows because she
rigged the election, right, she knows? What is about that?

Speaker 1 (31:52):

Speaker 2 (31:53):
This is what happened.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
They're starting this season two storyline where they're trying to
push Fits into a war that it seems like he
does doesn't want in Sudan, and somebody mocks up even
go so far as to like mock up a photo
in this episode of Sudanese children who have been like murdered,
and everyone's pushing for this war, and even Melly makes

a play to push him into war, and he is.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Like, fuck you, you can't fucking do that.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
But Melly, because she's a political animal, she's always also
angling for like what she wants the presidency to be
doing and which they want to make it. So when
she's asking for forgiveness, she's like, I overstepped. I overstepped him. Sorry,
please forgive me. What happened to us? What happened to us?
We used to just be like a little couple that
like had sex in like our one bedroom apartment, what

she says.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
And he's like, I forgive you, And then he's like,
but I don't like you.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
But I don't like you. I don't like your ass.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
We end we're starting to end the episode with you
have your I go.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Back to my AA meeting where it's a yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
And now the difference in the episode is because Carrie
just Olivia just worked on this case and she sees
that the mistress never really gets shit when Fitz keeps
trying to call her and call her and call her
for their usually nightly phone sex hang flo, she don't
pick up.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
You don't pick phone.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
And then we move.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Into a scene where Jeff Perry is like, no, no,
you can't have a baby because I have a baby.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
And his name is Fitzgerald Grant. He's a little baby bitch.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
And then they fuck and.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Then Dan is like, whoa that turns me on?

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, power Cyrus is so hot? Yeah right, or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Is it an from a gay man's point of view?

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Do you think in their relationship that it is clear
who's top and whose bottom?

Speaker 1 (33:47):
No, it's not. I was thinking about that too. I
was like, who's the top? Sometimes it's the unexpected one sometimes,
so I would say, yeah, where you're like, oh shit,
James is the top? What's the feeling I got? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Seeing that Cyrus was at bottom.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yes, but you just blew my mind because.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
I think stereotypically being a boring breeder as I am myself.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
They listen, if it wasn't for a couple of breeders,
none of our would be here.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
So we can't be here anymore. I don't know, but listen.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
I watched that scene and I'm like, okay, Like, obviously
Cyrus is a power top and Dan is a bottom,
but there's also explained to people you can also be
in a relationship where people switch.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Now of course, yeah yeah, yeah, and relationships were you know, intercourse,
Like you know, fucking is not even a thing you do.
There's so many, you know, a ton of other stuff.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Blow jobs all day, all night exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, a handy blowjoby. We're both talking like a little
bit hesitantly because we don't know how farn if this
was me and Katie, like at my house or at
her house, we'd be like.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
God, we might get there at the podcast. Can you
hit us up and let us know how interested you
are in hearing real dirty shit out of our mouth
or is it like you know what, let's keep this
a little bit scandal style, which is like a ten PM,
not like a one am exactly.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Go get a snack, take a crap, and come right back.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Verren A Thornton. We meet her in this episode.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Deborah Mooney.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Deborah Mooney is a fucking actress and we get so
much of Deborah Mooney this season.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
This is just the beginning. This is the beginning for her.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah, and she's amazing and we have to have her on,
especially for the episode where she well, I don't know
who's got that episode is so important.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
We're not going to get there yet. We're not.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
You just got to keep listening to our podcast. We
reveal the end cliffhanger of this episode two o two
with David just fucking beautiful mind his apartment. Yes, he's
just oh I think it was called in the script
wall Oh crazy?

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Oh really? How do you remember that?

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I had a weird memory of like David's wall of crazy,
like he's just got a wall because they kept being
like you don't want Abby to walk in and.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
See the wall crazy? Or maybe it's Brenda Song's character
later on.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Maybe maybe maybe, maybe, yeah, but it mimics like our
wall at OPA, right, because we put up all the
people's photo.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
He's not like strings and dots.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But also I don't want us to forget.
There's a moment with with you, with Quinn in the apartment,
watching the president give the speech at the eulogy at
the funeral, and you so beautifully break down, sobbing. Oh, Katie,
that was such a great scene. Yes, because your may

I feel like you're obviously we talked about it earlier.
You're making your peace with with your life. You're you.
Part of you is dying as well. That eulogy is
for you too, you know Lindsay died. Yeah, after tearstick.
I love the question mark. Possibly, I don't know, you
tell me.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I can't remember if I had it in me that
day or not.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Some days obviously, g and I remember really well, like
Amanda Tanner's Morgcine, we were a ball of crying.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
And yeah, of emotions and yes, and then.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
There are some I can't remember if I had it that.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Day, well, tearstick or not. It was a beautiful, beautiful
moment and and just just that being revealed and you
get that comes across so beautifully that you're like, oh,
she's mourning. She's mourning Lindsay Dwyer like Quinn is mourning
her old self. Just a great scene by Well Mandy.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Fun fact about this episode, This is a horror heavy
guest cast, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Gee, I already knew that. We already talked about that.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Elise Neil and A Gordon plays Halle and Scream two,
which is directed by Wes Craven.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Have you ever worked with Wes Craven.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I haven't, and unfortunately he's passed on now, but uh,
that was one of my dream directors. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
So the other horror heavy the horror fun fact Germo
is that the house that Anna, the character the mistress,
lives in this house is the house from a Nightmare
on Elm Street, which is also directed by Wes Craven.
So there was just a lot of horror ship going.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
On Wes Craven in this Yes, if people people from
California know this house is it's there's always people out
front taking pictures. It's the it's the exterior of the
house where Nancy lived in Nightmare on Elm Street. Anyway,
that's such a great fun fact. Ord.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Would I never know that because I would never watch
that movie. One other fun fact list that needs to
be brought up is that this episode is designed to
be a mirror for Olivia and Fitz's relationship to the
appearance of Pastor Drake's infidelities, but the use of mirrored
elements is apparent even throughout the episode. The episode begins
and ends almost with a phone call from Fits. That's

mirror one. David Ros's home is a wall of mirrors
the bored in OPA office. Oh right, David Rosen's wall
of crazy mirrors like you said, gr board at the
OPA office.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Mellie's her beg.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
To Fits uses almost the exact same words as he
does to Olivia. Another mirror, and then Vincent Anna and
Pastor Drake's son is the spitting image of his fob.
So the whole episode's theme, Yes is mirror and didn't
we learn a lot today?

Speaker 1 (39:37):

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Are there any fun Scandal tweets at the time? To
wrap up episode two.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Two, Let's see here, let's see what we got here,
We're through.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Oh there's really cute.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
My god, there's a flashback photo that Mary Howard tweeted
on October fourth of twenty twelve. Episode two two cruise
screening of ABC Scandal during lunch.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
You guys, we used to screen episodes.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
During lunch, or the crew during.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Lunch in our big like conference room that was where
we did all of our table reads, where they were
just a ton of old school folding chairs. They used
to put it like two or three big screen TVs
on like rolling things, and the whole crew would gather
instead of like taking lunch and like taking a break
of their own, everyone would gather and watch the episodes together.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Like who the fuck does that?

Speaker 1 (40:30):
But that's so rare on like the crew on a
show or a movie. I mean, of course they're there
and they're amazing, but the last thing I think they
want to do is go and watch, like, you know,
a screening of the episode. But it would hype people
up so much because the show is so hot that
people would just be like, oh my god, we're working
on the most amazing show. It would just ripe everybody up.
It was dope. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
I just love this photo most of all, guys, This
Mary Howard photo of the crew screening. It just everyone's
arms are up and smiling and laughing and like it's
from every department.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
I miss all those people so much.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Hey, maybe some of the crews listening today. If some
of the crew is listening today, we love you, guys,
we miss you. Episode two oh three is next week.
Episode two oh three is called Hunting Season. Oh yes,
oh my goodness. Hopefully we've got we've got a guest
coming on, but if not, Episode two of three is

one of my favorite episodes.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Of season two.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, there's a lot of fucking Camp David and Goldwyn
like chopping wood.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yes, yes, say no more.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Maybe I think he chops would But if he doesn't
chop wood, I know he laces up Olivia's hunting.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Boots really really yeah, because.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
They're supposed to go hunting and she gets summoned to
Camp David because he's so fucking pissed off that she's
not answering his phone calls. And it's really steamy and
it's really fucking hot and it's really ending. And so
episode two of three Hunting Season will be next week.
Tune in, tell your friends, subscribe. Scandal Rewatch podcast asked
Unpacking the Toolbox.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yes, we'll be here. We'll be here and hopefully you
guys will go.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Gee, let's talk about how many people we've had sex
with and by that, I'm saying how many people, how
many numbers of feeling like we're going to talk about
our IMDb numbers? How many numbers do we got? Oh
my god, Giermo, Wow, you have one hundred and four
and that's including seven to eight years being on one.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Job, crazy crazy, crazy crazy. Hey, that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Okay, okay, so let it be here known first.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
She might have one hundred and four IMDb credits. I'm
an on a fifty, but I am more famous than
Gemo by like, yeah, nothing.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
You better tell somebody I love it. I love it.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
But that's today, Gemo.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
If you just release a sex tape tonight, that number
will go way down.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Oh my god. Okay, that star.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Meater bullshit used to make me ill. Like I remember
in my twenties auditioning and being like this dude I
broke up with, Like, I was so angry and my
friend was like, well, whatever you're starting is way better
than his. Oh my god, and I was like, I
can never look at this again. This is not healthy.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, today's episode was really fun, really exciting.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
We the best time ever as usual, and listen to
the two most famous people in the world talk about
sandelwatch I mean talk about the Scandal. Episodes two three,
Hunting Season will be next week. Tell your friends, Tell
your loved ones. I love you, Gearmo, I love you.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Katie Low's not Katie Low Shapiro, just Katie Low.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
These total vanity, just like my name better right?

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Hell Ya, Well you are pretty famous, so that star
meter would go up if you took Shapiro. Maybe.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Gladiators, we love you, We love you guys.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
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