August 8, 2024 • 42 mins
Katie and Guillermo couldn’t be more excited to break down this super steamy episode, and who better to join them than the brilliant director who directed their first sex scene: Debbie Allen! Debbie shares her story from joining Grey’s Anatomy to directing for How To Get Away With Murder before they break down the full episode. Plus, some of the best (most anti-Quinn) Tweets of the Times.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with Higheartradios.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And Katie.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Gee. Do you remember being at the table read and
reading for the first time ever that Quinn and Hawk
were gonna bone down?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Oh? Yeah, Oh absolutely. I was so excited.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Because you wanted to make out with me so bad. Yeah, duh.
You were ready to take our friendship to the next level.
All of you fans that think Germo Diaz is the hottest.
He is a fucking awesome kiss.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
So is Katie. So are you please?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Thank you? I take pride in my kissing skills.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm not gonna be a good kisser if the other
person isn't a good kisser too, you know true.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I was thinking about it today. I was like, my god,
welcome to married life. I haven't had a great makeout
session a hot minute. Someone call Adam Shapiro.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Have you ever had to train somebody to try to
train them as you're making out to be a good kisser.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh? I have not found yet somebody who was like
a bad kisser that I trained like successfully? Have you
me either?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I've tried, but it's never It never results in a
you know in a positive outcome.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I feel the same way. It's like, yeah, you know,
it might take if someone's got like a different maybe
kind of style, and you like keep going and like
you figure out where you're in sync and where you're not.
G and I were in sync.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
We were in sing baby, it's kinna a May, It's
a kinna a May. We were so insane. We were
backstreet boys, we were new kids on the block, and
we were in sanktch.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I was nervous when I read it. I was like,
you're having sex on guys. This is episode three seventeen.
We're talking about today, but it's Gee and it's Hock
and Quinn having sex on the top of the car.
He rips these fishnet stockings. I slapped the shit out
of his face. He spits on my neck and then
he licks it off. Oh I'm getting all hot and
(02:27):
bothered talking about it.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Some of that stuff was improvy, at least the spitting.
I don't think that was in the script. I think
that just happened. I remember afterwards, I was like, oh
my god, I'm so sorry. Is that okay? K?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
You were like, yeah, we had no safe word. I
feel like we were so close by the time we
got this that it was like, I think that's what
made it so good. It was like, you know a
lot of people when you're going to be a love
interest with someone you meet pretty early on and you
start hooking up pretty early on and you become friends after, right,
But us it was the opposite. We were already friends
(03:02):
and then we were like.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh shit, we had no idea. We had no idea
this was going to go down. Oh my god, it's great.
But you were saying earlier about the an intimacy person
being on set. How what's that. I haven't worked with one.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I haven't either. Want we shot this, you guys, this
was before the Me Too movement. This scene was shot before.
Now all of these amazing protocols have been put in
place to help actors. There's a whole new job called
an intimacy coordinator of someone who's on the set choreographing
love scenes, sex scenes, any touching scene as if you
(03:37):
would a stunt or. It's a stunt person on set
choreographing a fight. Now you have an intimacy coordinator choreographing
making out scenes and love scenes. Yeah, you put your
hand on her here and you spin her around here
and you lay down on this line, and then you're
going to switch places and he's on top. Now she's
on top, and it's mapped out. We didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
No, all, Where do you have to go to get
to be an intimacy expert?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I don't know, but it's I'm currently working on a
show that has a lot of steamy sex. Oh really,
maybe this is a spoiler, whatever, but thank god I
am not involved or not. You're like, well, no, now
that we've spent all this time talking about hooking up
and that G and I are the best kissers we've
each other ever had, we have to tell you that
(04:23):
we are bringing to you live one of the most
talented individuals to ever be born on the face of
the planet.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
An icon, I would say, an icon.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Icon allegend, truly a diva, not in the sense of behavior,
but in the sense of just killing it and being
at the top of her game in so many arenas
it's bananas.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
For decades now.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
She's prolific. Yes, and we are so lucky to have
her on this show, and we were so lucky to
have her on this episode. She's the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
We had do some difficult stuff, some intimate stuff and
some riskue stuff. And I don't know about you, but
I felt super safe knowing that she was at the
helm guiding us. And with this woman, it's always it
was always so much fun being on set with her.
She does this really funny thing after you're done with
a take, What does she say here?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And she likes if she feels like she got the
take that she likes, and like, this is the one
we're gonna use in the edit, It'll be like and
cut Hello.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, that's what she says hello, And I think it's
basically her asking everyone the camera the sound everyone, Hey,
is everything good with you guys? Hello?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Because if it's good, I love it. Let's move on.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, let's move on. Is everyone approved? Did it get
through on sound? Then let's move on.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I love it. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
We're talking about episode three seventeen, titled Flesh and Blood,
which aired on April tenth in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And it was written by Severiano Canalez and Miguel Noya Severano.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
But we call him, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
It's amazing, the name Severiano. I've never called him that.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Game there, we just call him Seve and it was
directed by the Legend the Icon The Woman.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Our Guest de Bi Ellen, and it was guest starring
Keith sellin Wright as Garrett Cole, Harry S. Murphy as Mayor,
Johnny Cross Coostrey as A, Petro Candy Alexander as Maya.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Lewis Nazanine Boniatti as Adnan Salif, Sebastian Rochets, Dominic Bell
Brian Lesher's Tom Larson, and Carlo Prota as Ivan Yushkin.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
And to just jog y'all's memory, this is what happens
in the episode. In order for the OPA team to
track down Maya, Pope and the bomb, they must bring
in some questionable new team members, and when Dominic doesn't
give up Maya or the location, we get to learn
more about the Pope family's true colors.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
But things take a dark turn with Maya. When Maya
shows up at OPA, while some key members of the
team are a little distracted, I think she means I
think that means quinnin.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Hockey, Debbie, you are so gorgeous and so special and
we wanted to ask when you get a scene and
you think that you've got it, like the take that
you just took and you say hello. Is that your
way of making sure that every department also agrees and
now we can move on.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah, that's something that came into being when I was
doing Fame, when I first started directing. Oh, and I
will get something and I get a tick that I
like and I go hello, And that means everybody talk
to me quick, because I'm going to move on.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I'm not waiting to tell me about sound or light.
You better be watching while we're doing it. So hello
means I'm ready. Are you good? If I don't get nothing,
were moving on?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, Oh, Debbie, it's the best. It's stuck with us
and we talk about it all the time.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
It's so special.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes, you mentioned Fame, but you did the film first.
You did Fame the film first, right in the early eighties.
He was like nineteen eighty right, Yeah, it was when
it was released.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah, Irenkara, I was actually cast to be her nemesis.
I'm a senior student that was going to give her
let her know she was not miss thing that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I will know.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
But by the time Alan Parker got to where he
was going to shoot my number said, Debbie, I love you,
but the movie's already ten hours long.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I'm going to have to cut the number. I said, really,
I said, can I keep the dress? Such the dress?
Speaker 5 (08:31):
And so my whole character translated as a student teacher
or young teacher.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
That's how that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Yes, Lydia, what was Lydia's last name?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Do you remember, miss Lydia Grant?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yes, Oh my god, my goodness. I as a young
person who knew they wanted to be an actor, that
show was just such a beacon of light, and it
was so inspiring and so exciting to see the school
that existed where people could just express themselves and be artists.
And oh, it was just it's such a special show
to me and and to so many people. And you're
so wonderful in it. And your famous line, which I'm
(09:05):
sure you're sick of people asking you to say.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, want fame cost costs? Right here right he is
in sweat.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Life art imitates life. And so now I really do
have that school, the Debbieon Dance Academy. Yes, I do
Art Center, and we're teaching everything. We have a middle school, sixth,
seventh and eighth grade. I have a Rise musical theater program.
I have a son's daughter boys program.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Oh, I can have a Fair to Be.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Class that is a class of art and art class
for transgender youth and feel comfortable in the room in
this space.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
So, my gosh, Debbie, the legacy you are creating and
already have been for decades and it's just unbelievable. You
guys have such an amazing relationship, you and Shonda Rhymes.
How did you end up in shan on the land
and directing and come to be? And that we got
lucky enough to get you on.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
You know, I was a big fan of Gray's Anatomy
first of all, and the show had been on for
several years, and I looked up and Shonda Rhymes was
one of my parents.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
She brought her daughter.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Dancing there and so.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
I actually intentionally didn't talk to her for almost the
first year. I really would just say hello, keep moving,
because I felt like she deserved the anonymity of any
parent to be there for her child. And that's what
it was. And I actually developed quite a wonderful relationship
with her older daughter, Harper. She was the first one
to come. The other two came as well. Harper was
(10:42):
very creative, and I was tough on her and trying
to really respect that, and I think she just started
paying attention to what I was doing. And the next
thing I knew, I was asked to direct Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I Sai Child, let's about time.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Let me get over there, and then I just started
doing Scandal, and Scandal was my favorite show.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
We were going to ask you, oh yeah, because you
won't remember this because this was early on. And there
was a panel. You know how they have the Academy
panels where the whole cast comes, you're up for an
Emmy Award, and the audience gets to ask a question.
I stood up and asked a question, and I wanted
to know when did she know so and so was
(11:23):
going to kill get killed?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Did she know it in the beginning? Has she planned it?
She said? Do you want the truth? And you want
I said, I want the truth? She said, don't. We
figured it out just before we did it.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
And she talked about being so spontaneous in terms of
really paying attention to dailies, seeing what chemistry was.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Working, where things seen that would be rich to go to.
Speaker 5 (11:43):
And I started directing Gray's anatomy and they really enjoyed
me over there. I had so much fun, and then
I got invited to direct.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
You're a huge dog over there acting. You're the producing director.
I feel like you run all of Gray's. I'm like,
that's Debbie.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
I'm like, and I've become the villain on the show
down too. Yeah, I'm really a good villain. It is
something I really like playing. It's fun.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So was it your idea? Did you say I want
to direct a scandal?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Or did I want to direct Scandal?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
God?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Yeah, show, but I want to come over there.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
She invited me to come and I was so excited
and I going in as a director.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Every director, when you're coming into a new show, you
they you deserve to study the DNA.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Of that show. Every show has its own DNA. That
means what is the style of the cinematography. There was
a scandal pace, the way you all talked, there was
a whole thing, and that DNA was different from Gray's,
different from How to Get Away. I did all of those,
but Scandal was just it was everything. It was hot,
(12:51):
it was sexy, it was political, it was pushing the
envelope on race relations in America and the President child,
I'm locked up in a closet, I said, I got
to come over there, Sean, And.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It so hot.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
That scene is so hot. I thought the same way.
I was like, oh my god. When we were watching
it back, I'm like, no wonder. I didn't realize when
we were shooting it, But now that we're watching it
back for this podcast, when that scene happened in the closet,
I was like, I get it.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
This is the hottest in America. We were all and
when I was directed Tony Goldman, I would call him
mister President. I had the biggest crush on him, mister President,
you're thinking, and he were just laughing at me. Jill
Morten had been my brother on Broadway and raising so
(13:42):
now his little sister tell him what to do. And
then Maya had been on a different world. She came
out of the dance world. Do you know that she
came out of the dance.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Was a dancer.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Candy Alexander was a dancer, fierce dancer.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Debbie didn't she choreograph a bunch of Whitney Houston's world tours?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
She may have.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I don't know, yeh.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Candy is as we say, she's the ship.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah, she's amazing, she's so talented. So only she, honey,
with those legs, and were not had jug up against
that plaw honey.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Weeks to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
We have to talk.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
We'll be right back, guys.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
This episode, this was the first time that Quinn hunkot
sex and I was I will never forget g and
I were just saying before you came on that we
were so lucky that it was you because we felt
so comfortable, so safe, and I'll never forget it. I'm
a woman in Hollywood, and so everyone has things they
(14:53):
wish they could change, but mine happens to be in
front of millions of people and I'm about to have
a sex scene with Guermo, and you just made me
feel I remember you coming up to me and you
looked up and down like your dancer. You look at
people's bodies, they're dancers, they're movers, and you looked at
me and you were like you're hot, like something like that,
and it was all I needed to feel like, yeah,
(15:15):
Quinn's hot, Quin's got this, we can dominate this scene.
And I don't know, you really just empowered me to
feel like I could do it. I was scared.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I know that is the job of a really, I don't.
I'm not trying to pat myself a good director.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
You are, You're one of our all time paperites died.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
You so that you can find the reality of the
moments that you're playing in the relationships and let it
be truthful and be free of worn about what the
camera is looking at.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That you trust, you trust. I'm not going to show
anything that we don't want to see or that you
might not want to see. That I know how to
shoot it and keep you beautiful, sexy and go yes.
And then I went up to Canaday Alexander's legs.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Yes, Oh that was the best.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You see those heels and those legs walk past us
like having this like croz.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
My god, it's right.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
She walks past us having sex. And then that's how
she gets into Opa. And then she like slices Joe
Morton's she screws him up. I don't know what she says,
she'sa she does something terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Was was this the first episode you directed of Scandal, Debbie,
or when you already directed.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Some No, I just I started before this.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
I think I think one of my first I can't remember,
but I just remember Carrie was pregnant at the time,
and she was carrying a lot of things, and that
you all were. You were all in the office, all
of you, and they were like eight of you. And
I said, Okay, you're gonna go here and walk here.
When she says this, could you enter here? And then
could you go and find something over here to read?
(16:50):
I remember when I finished doing what I call broad
strokes of blocking. Karen Washing said, choreogphy, choreophy, chourreophy. I said,
I think being an actor and coming out of the
dance world really gives me another critical I as a
director in terms of what is the actor playing. I
(17:12):
really try to play everybody's part, so I know what
I'm thinking your subtext is and how you feel about
what's happening, and then you all.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Add all that you bring to it. You all brought
it though, Honey, let's just say it out loud.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
You are the best. I mean. The other thing I
remember so well from this episode is at the end
we've found Dominic whoever his last name is, I don't
know his last name, but this guy who maya pope
was like always in love with and turns out we
find out in this episode that Maya Pope was sleeping
with this guy the whole time she was married to
(17:44):
Eli Pope, and Eli Pope hates this guy because he
has her heart and he never had it. And he
runs into Huck's office where the guy is bound and
gagged and has a Russian roulette game, and we think
it's just a scare tactic at first, and he's not
shoot him, and then I remember so well, it's crazy
in the episode, but he ends up get everyone out
(18:05):
of the room, and Olivia Pope is screaming like no, no, no, no,
I don't want to murder your run in my office.
I don't want to murder anyone, and we're all holding
her back and boom bang the gun goes off and
he murders him right there, and Carrie's so pregnant at
this time and it's awful. She's gutturally screaming at her
dad not to as we're physically holding her back, and
then I remember you saying cut hello, and then we
(18:27):
would all go down to her belly and be like,
it's just pretend this is real. You're safe, nothing's really wrong.
We didn't want to be doing like actual trauma.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I remember this scene. I remember being in Huck's office.
I remember, yeah, you at your computer. I remember Engles.
It was really yeah, that was That's really something because
people don't realize that sometimes they really are leaving you
vicariously totally as this actor. They never think of you
as somebody else as they should. That's because you're doing
(19:02):
your job. But people are pregnant or going through all.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Kinds of oh yeah, sad stuff, breakup.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Yeah you want to get you said, I remember you
were pregnant. I choreographed you.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Oh my god, It's one of the greatest pictures I've
ever taken in my whole life. I had a baby.
I had my first and six weeks later I went
back to work and I was so grateful that it
was an episode being directed by Kerry Washington. I had
to dance to Britney Spears with me and Joe Morton
and a baby. I'm holding a baby and they call
(19:34):
in miss Debbie Allen Icon to just give us four
bars a short little choreography, and I remember, I'm carrying
my baby. I'm breastfeeding him under like a little rap.
I mean, he's so little, and I'm dancing with the
one and only Joe Morton as Debbie Allen is giving
us choreography, and this is my first day back at work,
and I'm like, I have a picture because it was
(19:55):
such a pinch me moment.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yes it was.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
But you all are so wonderful. That show stands the
test of time. They just need to play it over
and over. Yes, it certainly is relevant right now with
everything going on. You've touched on so many things. And
what I loved about the show. The show was daring.
It dared to let people act out their anger and
their revenge and then how do they survive as human
(20:25):
beings after that? When I think about Kate Burden.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
When she was when she murdered her husband, Oh yeah, yeah,
Daniel Douglas, that happens in this season that we're talking
about right now.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Oh yes, it's one of the most dramatic things that
ever happened. And just the whole show, and that it
was so cutting edge and you are always so beautiful
and so different. Everybody was everybody lived in their own space,
a totally different space from everybody else here.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Did we miss this experience so much? It was so special?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Did you feel the same way that other directors we've
talked to Felt, which is you get a warning, like
when you come over to Opa to direct, it's a
total shit show. It's like hurting cats. No one stops talking, laughing,
get like in the White House, they're all adults and
well behaved, and then you come over to Opa and
we're all like.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Dancing kids and dancing and.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Singing and eating snacks and won't pay attention.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You know what. I'm okay with that because I like
it when there's a cast of with a family feel,
where people like each other, and I feel like hurting
cast is a fun thing to do for me. I
remember this is Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
I had all of them in the gallery scene, every
last one of them, and it was like literally twenty
people in that gallery scene. I said, okay, so this
is what I said. You're going to be in group one.
You're two, you're three or four, and you're five. I said,
when I say one, I want you to react. When
I say two, you react, three, come in four or five.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I had done.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
You could think I was dealing with the Earth Debbie.
You could think I was dealing with the children and
my academy. But when they had a sense of when
they were come, this is when you're gonna come in, bam,
come in and then go And it was fantastic and
nobody thought I could shoot it in this quick amount
of time as I did, but I had did a
(22:23):
system away.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
But you all.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Joyful and I enjoyed that because you were doing so
many controversial, sometimes despicable things.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It was good that you kept levity going on.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We had well, we couldn't have done it. Wait now,
since we have you really quick? What was it like
directing this is taking a total left turn? But whatever
the fans are the fans. What was it like you
directed How to Get Away with Murder?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Too?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yes? I did?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
What was that like like directing Viola Davis?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
What I did one of her best scenes? Because I
knew Viola Davis from New York. I saw her in
a play and when Denzel Washington was doing Anton full Court,
I said, do you know who Viola Davis is? He
said no, I got to find somebody for the mother.
I said, go final her. Now cast her and she
(23:12):
didn't even really have anything to say, but she was
that strong. So Viola did that. I directed her and
I cast her as the mother in Fantasia Urina Burno's
life is not a fairy tale.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Her life story. She played her mother.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Wow, so here we are scandal and she's like shot
out of the canyon. She'd already taken the wig off,
and I give this very historic scene where her assistant
finally confessed that she was in love with her husband
and that she had kissed him or something like that.
And so I took the staging to a whole nother direction.
(23:47):
I made her get on her knees and I made
her kiss the ring in her CONDI and this was
going to break. I knew this was going to break
Viola in a whole nother way. Instead of just standing
there arguing yeah, took her down and Fyo.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Looked at me.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
She She's like, Debbie, you know what kind of girl?
I Am only going to do this one time, one son, Debbie,
because she was so full from the idea of what
it was going to be. I knew, child, get that
close up, ready is getting ready to happened.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
We didn't want fake And.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
We went down and Viola Davis was just I love
working with her. She really comes in beyond prepared and
having ideas about the character. It was her idea to
take the wig off.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
She didn't want to remember that moment.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
I remember she wanted that that's her, that's all Viola Davis,
and that's that's the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
That she brings a woman king. She'd been a woman
king for a long time.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
We will be back with more after the break. Do
you like to direct, Debbie?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Like?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Do you love it? Did you always know when you
were little that? Or like, because you were such a
leader in choreography, did you feel like it? Sort of
was an easy jump to make well.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
I studied acting and directing at Howard University. I wrote
something called Snow Black. It was my adaptation of Snow White,
and Snow White was a black girl that had really
big breasts.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It was funny.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
It was really us, can we do it right now?
I need this immediately.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It was funny.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
But choreography was a natural progression to directing. Out of Fame,
I became their favorite director because I had it like that,
and I was excited. The first time I directed Fame,
I was so excited I couldn't sleep, and I kept
wondering how should I dress because there were no women
on the crew. There was my script supervisor and my
(25:43):
costume designer and make up. There were no women anywhere else,
and so I was trying to figure out how should dress.
Should I come in a little macho? Should I come
in Yeah, with a little sexy? And then I wore
my overalls and lace outs and I came in prepared
and they loved me because I was the quick at
(26:03):
knowing what I've wanted.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And you're good at making decisions knowing that you're the
decision has been made. You have to be confident in
your director. You're leading groups of people. You're leading with love,
which is like what you're so good at it?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Which and then that it's super infectious too, right, Katie,
like on set her joy in her passion and your
excitement for directing in for the show and for us,
it's infectious and you start to believe that, believe it
and drink that kool aid and be like, oh, I'm
really good, I'm going to do this, and then brings
the best out of you.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
It's infectious, It really is.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
It is the best moment when we're all going down
that same road and in the same light together. It's
just Jolyn. So I've been directing on Gray's Anatomy now
twelve years.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I call this Alley.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
Tell that to Sean Rubs. I'm twelve years a slate,
but I much a good time. I'm still excited about
what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Say, it's so amazing that you're not like that, You're
I don't get any sense of like, oh I'm doing this.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I feel like I'm so jaded already, and let's go. Debbie,
please tell me that you still have those orange parachute pants.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I do.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Those are my favorite.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I have them in yellow, blue, purple, red, peak, just
name color.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I love them. I love them.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
I love them so much. One year Gladiators, one year
Shonda Rhymes. We always did a big Halloween dress up.
And one year Shanda Rhyme's dressed up for Halloween as
Debbie Allen did with her parachute kind of dance pants
and like a sneaker and some sort of sweater and
a hat.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
Very cool, it's very flat. Well, listen, I hope that
you all. I don't know. Maybe they could be one
little reunion scandals over, but who's the same this climate,
somebody couldn't pick it up and try to fix things
(28:03):
or whatever's going on.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yes, I agree, you know, we always do a six
Degrees of Horror because it's Gee's favorite thing in the
entire world. Has Debbie I ever been in a horror
I don't.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I believe she hasn't, but she has directed a two
thousand and three Twilight Zone episode called The Monsters on
Maple Street. The Monsters are on Maple Street, Debbie. I
watched it the other day and it is so good,
and it's not your typical horror episode or just your
typical horror thing. It's the citizens, the people, the humans
(28:37):
are the monsters. And it was such a wonderful episode.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Oh thank you get that again. That was we shopping
in Toronto up in Canada. Or was it maybe not Toronto, it.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Was Vancouver, Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
It was Vancouver.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
And you know what was really funny was we was
got in locations and we had the perfect location and said, oh,
you'll never get that. These people never do it. I said,
let me go knock on the door. I knocked on
the door and she went, Lizzie, your grant.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I'm like yeah, And we got the location because she
was fan.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Debbie was at the house where that family was living
that everyone thought was like the bad guys.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
It's such a wonderful house.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It's this sort of scary observation of how false they
made up information and paranoia and jumping to conclusions contributes
to our own self destruction and demise.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
It's super timely.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
These people like are thinking that this one family are
the monsters, and when turned they're the monsters.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, yeah good.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I know we got a television is so powerful and
we have to keep doing things and making things that
can help people start to think about the world and
about the community a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And what is like that? Who are the real monsters?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yes, and you can check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
It's on YouTube. I watched it on YouTube, so if
anybody wants to check it out.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Debbie Allen, you are the greatest. I'm trying to think
if there's anything else in this episode did I mean,
I don't even know if you remember if there was
anything else in this episode that stood out to you
before we let you go. There are a few things
for me and no pressure, but I was so disgusted
by Leo Bergen is paying this little cheerleader to hook
up with Jerry Grant, their son and get a sperm
(30:23):
sample so that Melly can test if he is fits
his son and not Big Jerry's son. Yes, and Lee
call it. I wrote something like man chowder and I
almost gagged. I was like, are these writers kidding?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
This is so grud That actress is so good.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
She was so good, she was so good. I'm trying
to think if there were any other like big acting wins. Oh,
this is where you're doing the whole bomb was being
set up, and you think that the bomb is underneath
where they're doing an election speech. But then we realized
that the bomb is in the funeral home, is at
(31:02):
the funeral of the senator that was High Tower who
was murdered, and it was like all staged.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I remember going on location with that. I remember that,
I remember shooting the stage. We were at a school
somewhere and not far from the studio. I remember that.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, gee, did you have any other moments that you
like liked.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
There's a moment Katie where Huck is like, Okay, I'll
go find him. When you, Charlie and myself were talking
about we need to find Dominic, and Huck is, let's
just go out there and find him, and you and
Charlie are like, no, let's do this, and I'm like,
its screwed it. I'm gonna go find him. And then
he comes back and he drops the body on the ground.
Dominant is not dead yet. And and your face, your reaction,
(31:46):
I think that's the moment that Quinn decided she's gonna
have sex with Huck, because your reaction, your face is
You're like, you're almost like licking your lips.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
It's just a dead body. These people were so sick.
G and I haven't had intimate scenes since this new
role of an intimacy coordinator, which is so awesome. And
when we got this scene, G and I, before we
came to said had a conversation where we were like,
Quinn and Hook, they can't just movie kiss, like their
(32:16):
pain and pleasure threshold is very confused and heightened, and
so we basically were like are you cool with a
lot of tongue.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
That was our yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Intimacy coordinator conversations.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
We were just like, I'm cool, you cool? Do whatever?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Like we were like, are you cool? Do you feel
safe with me? And what was so cool was we
had already worked together for three years and had become
such tight friends that we were like, I feel great,
Let's do whatever.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
Yeah, it was great. You all were friends and so
you fell into it and it was okay. You knew
you were playing your part and you all went for it.
And it was so hot. Oh, it was hot.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
It was it was hilarious.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
We're on a car. And also before we let you go,
the last thing. Do you remember, right before we have
sex on the car, Quinn slaps the shit out of
Huck and I nailed him in the ear and I
couldn't tell, but g says, when you watch back the episode,
his ear is like straight red and he went deaf
for twenty.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Debby, I couldn't hear for like twenty minutes. But listen,
I'm a trooper. The show must go on. I would
like to do it again.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Let's go.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Oh real, we could never stop rolling. I would never
say cut for that because it was too good.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
It's real.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, it was so real.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Yes, it's like that moment I was on Broadway in
the taunting scene. I was playing Anita in West Side.
Oh my god, the scene which they often called the
rape scene where a Jets really attacked a Nia. Yes, yeah,
one night something happened and those boys pull my inturn
blouse off and that was no did on stage on Broadway.
(33:54):
And when I tell you, I slept, every last one
of the mass tried to knock them out and it
was like I hit them for real too, because it
was just too real it happened.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And then the little yeah, Debnie, that was fat, that
was fat? Do it again. I'm like, shut up, shut.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Up, shut up, and next time, don't pull my blouse off.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Yeah, Debbie, you have had the like this is insane.
And also how do you look the way you do?
I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I'm so tired girl.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Come on, no, no, you are so gorgeous. It is insane.
And then you run a school that has unbelievable programming,
and you direct, and you run Gray's Anatomy, and you
act on Grais Anatomy and you're the villain, and you
have children and a husband and a life.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
I know it's a little tricky. It's a little tricky.
One thing at a time, and take time. Husband and
I had a great fortieth anniversary celebration.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Oh day, gradual elation.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
You know, I have grand babies.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
I have two and Vivings expecting one and now my
son Thump is expecting one.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I have four. I'm going to have four by November.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Oh my, wow, have no bless and my mom is
going to turn one hundred and one July twenty ninth.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Are oh my god kidding me really quickly. I read something,
DeBie that your dad, who has passed away now accompanied
you to the Emmys, right, and you won your Emmy
for Choreography for Fame, and then shortly after he passed away.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Oh, but how special, how wonderful that he got to
go to the Emmys with you and.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
You, oh, you were able to be there with him.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Yeah, it's something I treasure seeing that clip because I
see him in the audience. Oh, I see him in
the audience. I'm looking at him and yeah, daddy was
a dentist and he really supported me and my such
a fulicial shot who is amazing.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I waited on her once when I was in nobody
and she was, oh, yeah. I used to work at
this big theater restaurant called Cafe Cello. It was a
great gig because you only worked till, you know, four
pm to seven forty five. You got everyone asses out
to the theater and then there was a ghost town
in there. So I really liked the job. But one
time Felicia came in there, and I remember she ordered
(36:17):
her soup and it sounded like the best voice in
speech class I'd ever heard, Like just the way her
instrument worked. I don't know if she was coming from. Yeah,
like her cadence and her speech and dialect in her
the way her voice was supported, and she was so
classy and let it be known, she was so nice
(36:38):
to me and I would never forget it. And that
day she made my day. I got to call my
parents and be like I waited on.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Oh my god, she's a little girl.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
We grew up, we grew up with a big family,
so we're pretty down to her people, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
So Debbie, thank you so much for making time in
your busy, busy schedu Well, we love you so much.
You are literally one of your special human beings on
the planet.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
And I'm gonna rewatch the entire scandal. I'm going to
hold up.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
It's so good.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Holds up.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, I'm gonna watch it again. It's really great.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
It is.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, Okay, we love you.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ge Wow. Not only do we have tweets at the
time tonight, we also have a user review that said
get rid of Quinn. I want to and this is
what it says. This is a featured review. You guys
are gonna love this. I want to just barf every
time Quinn is in a scene. There is no legitimate
(37:48):
reason why she should have any combat or shooting skills. Honestly,
how did she acquire these almost magical skills she suddenly has.
It's not believable that she would be recruited by a
super spy organization. She's trying too hard to be a
ross between Huck and Olivia. She's not a bad aass
like she wants to be. She isn't useful any longer
to the show as a character and should be written out.
Thank you so much whoever wrote that. Thank you for
(38:11):
caring and having strong feelings.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Listen, Katie, I don't know about you, but I used
to get pressed about ship like that written about me
or about Huck in the beginning of this show. I
used to hurt my feelings, but now I literally I
search for it. I I love it. The nastier, the better,
the meaner they are to me, the better. It's just enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It's so enjoyable. And also people feel they're anonymous into
this social media world. If I were to write back
to that person and be like, Hi, what's up. I
can't believe you felt the way of my character, they
would be like, oh no, my god, it's just kidding.
They think you're writing it into the ether.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
One's gonna go and yeah or read it, or that
we'll never read it.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Number one feeling tweeted Mellie Grant please stop being a victim?
Or how Olivia Pope owes you nothing? Wow?
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah she is victimy in this episode. But hey, she
was literally raped by her husband's.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Father, right, she's upset. Look at m z M y N.
Well here's a harsh one, Katie. You're in good company.
I hate Jake hashtag scandal.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Oh wait, here's an amazing, amazing Retta. We should have
her on what Heretta? Yes, I can text her. Ritta,
whose Twitter handle is at unfreddable, said I need Andrew
to stop screwing my wife. She wrote, here's your cake?
Fits would you like to eat it too? Oh? So
(39:48):
she feels like Melly has every right to be screwing
Andrew because Fitz is also a cheater. Oh my god,
this is really mean and really good at Aufen Trovert wrote,
the day Jeoffrey on Game of Throw and Quinn from
Scandal die, it will be the happiest days on social media.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yes, wait did that character die on Game of Thrones
because print didn't die.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
That's right, that's right, Introvert.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Let's see at Bella Dame Noir tweeted something was up
with the scene. I don't think it was just a
scene thrown in there. It's the scene where there's a
picture of popa Pope and Harrison.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I know, but there. Yeah, there was a weird feeling there.
I kind of remember that. Oh to tweet it again,
she wrote, is anyone else uncomfortable with the sex scene
knowing Kerry is pregnant?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Hashtag phoebe Liza, I like this one.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
At pm Kel tweeted I want to be drunk Melly
Grant when I grow up.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Hashtag scandal.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
At Forever Island, g Olivia guilty face when Jake says
how she slept with him l O l O l
l o llollol. Oh this is just fab Someone tweeted
a great picture of me, Danny Buka and Bells.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
With glass with sunglasses on.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
That's really and you guys next up is the finale
of season three. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
All? Right?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
How do we there?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Already?
Speaker 3 (41:12):
We did it. We did the second season of Unpacking
victorm Ball.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And it's called what is that one called? The Price
of Free and Fair Elections?
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Guys, it's a doozy Episode three eighteen, The Price of
Free and Fair Elections.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Season three of Scandal.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Keep you with us, guys, Stick with us. We'll explain.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
You'll get it.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
You'll get it. We'll probably have a great guest.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
We love you the you guys. Bye.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Unpacking the Toolbox was executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce,
Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and
editor is Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with Higheartradios.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And Katie.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Gee. Do you remember being at the table read and
reading for the first time ever that Quinn and Hawk
were gonna bone down?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Oh? Yeah, Oh absolutely. I was so excited.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Because you wanted to make out with me so bad. Yeah, duh.
You were ready to take our friendship to the next level.
All of you fans that think Germo Diaz is the hottest.
He is a fucking awesome kiss.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
So is Katie. So are you please?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Thank you? I take pride in my kissing skills.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm not gonna be a good kisser if the other
person isn't a good kisser too, you know true.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I was thinking about it today. I was like, my god,
welcome to married life. I haven't had a great makeout
session a hot minute. Someone call Adam Shapiro.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Have you ever had to train somebody to try to
train them as you're making out to be a good kisser.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh? I have not found yet somebody who was like
a bad kisser that I trained like successfully? Have you
me either?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I've tried, but it's never It never results in a
you know in a positive outcome.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I feel the same way. It's like, yeah, you know,
it might take if someone's got like a different maybe
kind of style, and you like keep going and like
you figure out where you're in sync and where you're not.
G and I were in sync.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
We were in sing baby, it's kinna a May, It's
a kinna a May. We were so insane. We were
backstreet boys, we were new kids on the block, and
we were in sanktch.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I was nervous when I read it. I was like,
you're having sex on guys. This is episode three seventeen.
We're talking about today, but it's Gee and it's Hock
and Quinn having sex on the top of the car.
He rips these fishnet stockings. I slapped the shit out
of his face. He spits on my neck and then
he licks it off. Oh I'm getting all hot and
(02:27):
bothered talking about it.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Some of that stuff was improvy, at least the spitting.
I don't think that was in the script. I think
that just happened. I remember afterwards, I was like, oh
my god, I'm so sorry. Is that okay? K?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
You were like, yeah, we had no safe word. I
feel like we were so close by the time we
got this that it was like, I think that's what
made it so good. It was like, you know a
lot of people when you're going to be a love
interest with someone you meet pretty early on and you
start hooking up pretty early on and you become friends after, right,
But us it was the opposite. We were already friends
(03:02):
and then we were like.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh shit, we had no idea. We had no idea
this was going to go down. Oh my god, it's great.
But you were saying earlier about the an intimacy person
being on set. How what's that. I haven't worked with one.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I haven't either. Want we shot this, you guys, this
was before the Me Too movement. This scene was shot before.
Now all of these amazing protocols have been put in
place to help actors. There's a whole new job called
an intimacy coordinator of someone who's on the set choreographing
love scenes, sex scenes, any touching scene as if you
(03:37):
would a stunt or. It's a stunt person on set
choreographing a fight. Now you have an intimacy coordinator choreographing
making out scenes and love scenes. Yeah, you put your
hand on her here and you spin her around here
and you lay down on this line, and then you're
going to switch places and he's on top. Now she's
on top, and it's mapped out. We didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
No, all, Where do you have to go to get
to be an intimacy expert?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I don't know, but it's I'm currently working on a
show that has a lot of steamy sex. Oh really,
maybe this is a spoiler, whatever, but thank god I
am not involved or not. You're like, well, no, now
that we've spent all this time talking about hooking up
and that G and I are the best kissers we've
each other ever had, we have to tell you that
(04:23):
we are bringing to you live one of the most
talented individuals to ever be born on the face of
the planet.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
An icon, I would say, an icon.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Icon allegend, truly a diva, not in the sense of behavior,
but in the sense of just killing it and being
at the top of her game in so many arenas
it's bananas.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
For decades now.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
She's prolific. Yes, and we are so lucky to have
her on this show, and we were so lucky to
have her on this episode. She's the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
We had do some difficult stuff, some intimate stuff and
some riskue stuff. And I don't know about you, but
I felt super safe knowing that she was at the
helm guiding us. And with this woman, it's always it
was always so much fun being on set with her.
She does this really funny thing after you're done with
a take, What does she say here?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And she likes if she feels like she got the
take that she likes, and like, this is the one
we're gonna use in the edit, It'll be like and
cut Hello.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, that's what she says hello, And I think it's
basically her asking everyone the camera the sound everyone, Hey,
is everything good with you guys? Hello?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Because if it's good, I love it. Let's move on.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, let's move on. Is everyone approved? Did it get
through on sound? Then let's move on.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I love it. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
We're talking about episode three seventeen, titled Flesh and Blood,
which aired on April tenth in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And it was written by Severiano Canalez and Miguel Noya Severano.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
But we call him, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
It's amazing, the name Severiano. I've never called him that.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Game there, we just call him Seve and it was
directed by the Legend the Icon The Woman.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Our Guest de Bi Ellen, and it was guest starring
Keith sellin Wright as Garrett Cole, Harry S. Murphy as Mayor,
Johnny Cross Coostrey as A, Petro Candy Alexander as Maya.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Lewis Nazanine Boniatti as Adnan Salif, Sebastian Rochets, Dominic Bell
Brian Lesher's Tom Larson, and Carlo Prota as Ivan Yushkin.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
And to just jog y'all's memory, this is what happens
in the episode. In order for the OPA team to
track down Maya, Pope and the bomb, they must bring
in some questionable new team members, and when Dominic doesn't
give up Maya or the location, we get to learn
more about the Pope family's true colors.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
But things take a dark turn with Maya. When Maya
shows up at OPA, while some key members of the
team are a little distracted, I think she means I
think that means quinnin.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Hockey, Debbie, you are so gorgeous and so special and
we wanted to ask when you get a scene and
you think that you've got it, like the take that
you just took and you say hello. Is that your
way of making sure that every department also agrees and
now we can move on.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah, that's something that came into being when I was
doing Fame, when I first started directing. Oh, and I
will get something and I get a tick that I
like and I go hello, And that means everybody talk
to me quick, because I'm going to move on.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I'm not waiting to tell me about sound or light.
You better be watching while we're doing it. So hello
means I'm ready. Are you good? If I don't get nothing,
were moving on?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, Oh, Debbie, it's the best. It's stuck with us
and we talk about it all the time.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
It's so special.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes, you mentioned Fame, but you did the film first.
You did Fame the film first, right in the early eighties.
He was like nineteen eighty right, Yeah, it was when
it was released.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah, Irenkara, I was actually cast to be her nemesis.
I'm a senior student that was going to give her
let her know she was not miss thing that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I will know.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
But by the time Alan Parker got to where he
was going to shoot my number said, Debbie, I love you,
but the movie's already ten hours long.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I'm going to have to cut the number. I said, really,
I said, can I keep the dress? Such the dress?
Speaker 5 (08:31):
And so my whole character translated as a student teacher
or young teacher.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
That's how that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Yes, Lydia, what was Lydia's last name?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Do you remember, miss Lydia Grant?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yes, Oh my god, my goodness. I as a young
person who knew they wanted to be an actor, that
show was just such a beacon of light, and it
was so inspiring and so exciting to see the school
that existed where people could just express themselves and be artists.
And oh, it was just it's such a special show
to me and and to so many people. And you're
so wonderful in it. And your famous line, which I'm
(09:05):
sure you're sick of people asking you to say.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, want fame cost costs? Right here right he is
in sweat.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Life art imitates life. And so now I really do
have that school, the Debbieon Dance Academy. Yes, I do
Art Center, and we're teaching everything. We have a middle school, sixth,
seventh and eighth grade. I have a Rise musical theater program.
I have a son's daughter boys program.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Oh, I can have a Fair to Be.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Class that is a class of art and art class
for transgender youth and feel comfortable in the room in
this space.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
So, my gosh, Debbie, the legacy you are creating and
already have been for decades and it's just unbelievable. You
guys have such an amazing relationship, you and Shonda Rhymes.
How did you end up in shan on the land
and directing and come to be? And that we got
lucky enough to get you on.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
You know, I was a big fan of Gray's Anatomy
first of all, and the show had been on for
several years, and I looked up and Shonda Rhymes was
one of my parents.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
She brought her daughter.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Dancing there and so.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
I actually intentionally didn't talk to her for almost the
first year. I really would just say hello, keep moving,
because I felt like she deserved the anonymity of any
parent to be there for her child. And that's what
it was. And I actually developed quite a wonderful relationship
with her older daughter, Harper. She was the first one
to come. The other two came as well. Harper was
(10:42):
very creative, and I was tough on her and trying
to really respect that, and I think she just started
paying attention to what I was doing. And the next
thing I knew, I was asked to direct Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I Sai Child, let's about time.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Let me get over there, and then I just started
doing Scandal, and Scandal was my favorite show.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
We were going to ask you, oh yeah, because you
won't remember this because this was early on. And there
was a panel. You know how they have the Academy
panels where the whole cast comes, you're up for an
Emmy Award, and the audience gets to ask a question.
I stood up and asked a question, and I wanted
to know when did she know so and so was
(11:23):
going to kill get killed?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Did she know it in the beginning? Has she planned it?
She said? Do you want the truth? And you want
I said, I want the truth? She said, don't. We
figured it out just before we did it.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
And she talked about being so spontaneous in terms of
really paying attention to dailies, seeing what chemistry was.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Working, where things seen that would be rich to go to.
Speaker 5 (11:43):
And I started directing Gray's anatomy and they really enjoyed
me over there. I had so much fun, and then
I got invited to direct.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
You're a huge dog over there acting. You're the producing director.
I feel like you run all of Gray's. I'm like,
that's Debbie.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
I'm like, and I've become the villain on the show
down too. Yeah, I'm really a good villain. It is
something I really like playing. It's fun.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So was it your idea? Did you say I want
to direct a scandal?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Or did I want to direct Scandal?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
God?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Yeah, show, but I want to come over there.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
She invited me to come and I was so excited
and I going in as a director.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Every director, when you're coming into a new show, you
they you deserve to study the DNA.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Of that show. Every show has its own DNA. That
means what is the style of the cinematography. There was
a scandal pace, the way you all talked, there was
a whole thing, and that DNA was different from Gray's,
different from How to Get Away. I did all of those,
but Scandal was just it was everything. It was hot,
(12:51):
it was sexy, it was political, it was pushing the
envelope on race relations in America and the President child,
I'm locked up in a closet, I said, I got
to come over there, Sean, And.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It so hot.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
That scene is so hot. I thought the same way.
I was like, oh my god. When we were watching
it back, I'm like, no wonder. I didn't realize when
we were shooting it, But now that we're watching it
back for this podcast, when that scene happened in the closet,
I was like, I get it.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
This is the hottest in America. We were all and
when I was directed Tony Goldman, I would call him
mister President. I had the biggest crush on him, mister President,
you're thinking, and he were just laughing at me. Jill
Morten had been my brother on Broadway and raising so
(13:42):
now his little sister tell him what to do. And
then Maya had been on a different world. She came
out of the dance world. Do you know that she
came out of the dance.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Was a dancer.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Candy Alexander was a dancer, fierce dancer.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Debbie didn't she choreograph a bunch of Whitney Houston's world tours?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
She may have.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I don't know, yeh.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Candy is as we say, she's the ship.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah, she's amazing, she's so talented. So only she, honey,
with those legs, and were not had jug up against
that plaw honey.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Weeks to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
We have to talk.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
We'll be right back, guys.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
This episode, this was the first time that Quinn hunkot
sex and I was I will never forget g and
I were just saying before you came on that we
were so lucky that it was you because we felt
so comfortable, so safe, and I'll never forget it. I'm
a woman in Hollywood, and so everyone has things they
(14:53):
wish they could change, but mine happens to be in
front of millions of people and I'm about to have
a sex scene with Guermo, and you just made me
feel I remember you coming up to me and you
looked up and down like your dancer. You look at
people's bodies, they're dancers, they're movers, and you looked at
me and you were like you're hot, like something like that,
and it was all I needed to feel like, yeah,
(15:15):
Quinn's hot, Quin's got this, we can dominate this scene.
And I don't know, you really just empowered me to
feel like I could do it. I was scared.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I know that is the job of a really, I don't.
I'm not trying to pat myself a good director.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
You are, You're one of our all time paperites died.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
You so that you can find the reality of the
moments that you're playing in the relationships and let it
be truthful and be free of worn about what the
camera is looking at.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That you trust, you trust. I'm not going to show
anything that we don't want to see or that you
might not want to see. That I know how to
shoot it and keep you beautiful, sexy and go yes.
And then I went up to Canaday Alexander's legs.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Yes, Oh that was the best.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You see those heels and those legs walk past us
like having this like croz.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
My god, it's right.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
She walks past us having sex. And then that's how
she gets into Opa. And then she like slices Joe
Morton's she screws him up. I don't know what she says,
she'sa she does something terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Was was this the first episode you directed of Scandal, Debbie,
or when you already directed.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Some No, I just I started before this.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
I think I think one of my first I can't remember,
but I just remember Carrie was pregnant at the time,
and she was carrying a lot of things, and that
you all were. You were all in the office, all
of you, and they were like eight of you. And
I said, Okay, you're gonna go here and walk here.
When she says this, could you enter here? And then
could you go and find something over here to read?
(16:50):
I remember when I finished doing what I call broad
strokes of blocking. Karen Washing said, choreogphy, choreophy, chourreophy. I said,
I think being an actor and coming out of the
dance world really gives me another critical I as a
director in terms of what is the actor playing. I
(17:12):
really try to play everybody's part, so I know what
I'm thinking your subtext is and how you feel about
what's happening, and then you all.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Add all that you bring to it. You all brought
it though, Honey, let's just say it out loud.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
You are the best. I mean. The other thing I
remember so well from this episode is at the end
we've found Dominic whoever his last name is, I don't
know his last name, but this guy who maya pope
was like always in love with and turns out we
find out in this episode that Maya Pope was sleeping
with this guy the whole time she was married to
(17:44):
Eli Pope, and Eli Pope hates this guy because he
has her heart and he never had it. And he
runs into Huck's office where the guy is bound and
gagged and has a Russian roulette game, and we think
it's just a scare tactic at first, and he's not
shoot him, and then I remember so well, it's crazy
in the episode, but he ends up get everyone out
(18:05):
of the room, and Olivia Pope is screaming like no, no, no, no,
I don't want to murder your run in my office.
I don't want to murder anyone, and we're all holding
her back and boom bang the gun goes off and
he murders him right there, and Carrie's so pregnant at
this time and it's awful. She's gutturally screaming at her
dad not to as we're physically holding her back, and
then I remember you saying cut hello, and then we
(18:27):
would all go down to her belly and be like,
it's just pretend this is real. You're safe, nothing's really wrong.
We didn't want to be doing like actual trauma.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I remember this scene. I remember being in Huck's office.
I remember, yeah, you at your computer. I remember Engles.
It was really yeah, that was That's really something because
people don't realize that sometimes they really are leaving you
vicariously totally as this actor. They never think of you
as somebody else as they should. That's because you're doing
(19:02):
your job. But people are pregnant or going through all.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Kinds of oh yeah, sad stuff, breakup.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Yeah you want to get you said, I remember you
were pregnant. I choreographed you.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Oh my god, It's one of the greatest pictures I've
ever taken in my whole life. I had a baby.
I had my first and six weeks later I went
back to work and I was so grateful that it
was an episode being directed by Kerry Washington. I had
to dance to Britney Spears with me and Joe Morton
and a baby. I'm holding a baby and they call
(19:34):
in miss Debbie Allen Icon to just give us four
bars a short little choreography, and I remember, I'm carrying
my baby. I'm breastfeeding him under like a little rap.
I mean, he's so little, and I'm dancing with the
one and only Joe Morton as Debbie Allen is giving
us choreography, and this is my first day back at work,
and I'm like, I have a picture because it was
(19:55):
such a pinch me moment.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yes it was.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
But you all are so wonderful. That show stands the
test of time. They just need to play it over
and over. Yes, it certainly is relevant right now with
everything going on. You've touched on so many things. And
what I loved about the show. The show was daring.
It dared to let people act out their anger and
their revenge and then how do they survive as human
(20:25):
beings after that? When I think about Kate Burden.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
When she was when she murdered her husband, Oh yeah, yeah,
Daniel Douglas, that happens in this season that we're talking
about right now.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Oh yes, it's one of the most dramatic things that
ever happened. And just the whole show, and that it
was so cutting edge and you are always so beautiful
and so different. Everybody was everybody lived in their own space,
a totally different space from everybody else here.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Did we miss this experience so much? It was so special?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Did you feel the same way that other directors we've
talked to Felt, which is you get a warning, like
when you come over to Opa to direct, it's a
total shit show. It's like hurting cats. No one stops talking, laughing,
get like in the White House, they're all adults and
well behaved, and then you come over to Opa and
we're all like.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Dancing kids and dancing and.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Singing and eating snacks and won't pay attention.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You know what. I'm okay with that because I like
it when there's a cast of with a family feel,
where people like each other, and I feel like hurting
cast is a fun thing to do for me. I
remember this is Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
I had all of them in the gallery scene, every
last one of them, and it was like literally twenty
people in that gallery scene. I said, okay, so this
is what I said. You're going to be in group one.
You're two, you're three or four, and you're five. I said,
when I say one, I want you to react. When
I say two, you react, three, come in four or five.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I had done.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
You could think I was dealing with the Earth Debbie.
You could think I was dealing with the children and
my academy. But when they had a sense of when
they were come, this is when you're gonna come in, bam,
come in and then go And it was fantastic and
nobody thought I could shoot it in this quick amount
of time as I did, but I had did a
(22:23):
system away.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
But you all.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Joyful and I enjoyed that because you were doing so
many controversial, sometimes despicable things.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It was good that you kept levity going on.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We had well, we couldn't have done it. Wait now,
since we have you really quick? What was it like
directing this is taking a total left turn? But whatever
the fans are the fans. What was it like you
directed How to Get Away with Murder?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Too?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yes? I did?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
What was that like like directing Viola Davis?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
What I did one of her best scenes? Because I
knew Viola Davis from New York. I saw her in
a play and when Denzel Washington was doing Anton full Court,
I said, do you know who Viola Davis is? He
said no, I got to find somebody for the mother.
I said, go final her. Now cast her and she
(23:12):
didn't even really have anything to say, but she was
that strong. So Viola did that. I directed her and
I cast her as the mother in Fantasia Urina Burno's
life is not a fairy tale.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Her life story. She played her mother.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Wow, so here we are scandal and she's like shot
out of the canyon. She'd already taken the wig off,
and I give this very historic scene where her assistant
finally confessed that she was in love with her husband
and that she had kissed him or something like that.
And so I took the staging to a whole nother direction.
(23:47):
I made her get on her knees and I made
her kiss the ring in her CONDI and this was
going to break. I knew this was going to break
Viola in a whole nother way. Instead of just standing
there arguing yeah, took her down and Fyo.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Looked at me.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
She She's like, Debbie, you know what kind of girl?
I Am only going to do this one time, one son, Debbie,
because she was so full from the idea of what
it was going to be. I knew, child, get that
close up, ready is getting ready to happened.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
We didn't want fake And.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
We went down and Viola Davis was just I love
working with her. She really comes in beyond prepared and
having ideas about the character. It was her idea to
take the wig off.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
She didn't want to remember that moment.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
I remember she wanted that that's her, that's all Viola Davis,
and that's that's the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
That she brings a woman king. She'd been a woman
king for a long time.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
We will be back with more after the break. Do
you like to direct, Debbie?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Like?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Do you love it? Did you always know when you
were little that? Or like, because you were such a
leader in choreography, did you feel like it? Sort of
was an easy jump to make well.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
I studied acting and directing at Howard University. I wrote
something called Snow Black. It was my adaptation of Snow White,
and Snow White was a black girl that had really
big breasts.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It was funny.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
It was really us, can we do it right now?
I need this immediately.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It was funny.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
But choreography was a natural progression to directing. Out of Fame,
I became their favorite director because I had it like that,
and I was excited. The first time I directed Fame,
I was so excited I couldn't sleep, and I kept
wondering how should I dress because there were no women
on the crew. There was my script supervisor and my
(25:43):
costume designer and make up. There were no women anywhere else,
and so I was trying to figure out how should dress.
Should I come in a little macho? Should I come
in Yeah, with a little sexy? And then I wore
my overalls and lace outs and I came in prepared
and they loved me because I was the quick at
(26:03):
knowing what I've wanted.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And you're good at making decisions knowing that you're the
decision has been made. You have to be confident in
your director. You're leading groups of people. You're leading with love,
which is like what you're so good at it?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Which and then that it's super infectious too, right, Katie,
like on set her joy in her passion and your
excitement for directing in for the show and for us,
it's infectious and you start to believe that, believe it
and drink that kool aid and be like, oh, I'm
really good, I'm going to do this, and then brings
the best out of you.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
It's infectious, It really is.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
It is the best moment when we're all going down
that same road and in the same light together. It's
just Jolyn. So I've been directing on Gray's Anatomy now
twelve years.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I call this Alley.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
Tell that to Sean Rubs. I'm twelve years a slate,
but I much a good time. I'm still excited about
what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Say, it's so amazing that you're not like that, You're
I don't get any sense of like, oh I'm doing this.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I feel like I'm so jaded already, and let's go. Debbie,
please tell me that you still have those orange parachute pants.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I do.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Those are my favorite.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I have them in yellow, blue, purple, red, peak, just
name color.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I love them. I love them.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
I love them so much. One year Gladiators, one year
Shonda Rhymes. We always did a big Halloween dress up.
And one year Shanda Rhyme's dressed up for Halloween as
Debbie Allen did with her parachute kind of dance pants
and like a sneaker and some sort of sweater and
a hat.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
Very cool, it's very flat. Well, listen, I hope that
you all. I don't know. Maybe they could be one
little reunion scandals over, but who's the same this climate,
somebody couldn't pick it up and try to fix things
(28:03):
or whatever's going on.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yes, I agree, you know, we always do a six
Degrees of Horror because it's Gee's favorite thing in the
entire world. Has Debbie I ever been in a horror
I don't.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I believe she hasn't, but she has directed a two
thousand and three Twilight Zone episode called The Monsters on
Maple Street. The Monsters are on Maple Street, Debbie. I
watched it the other day and it is so good,
and it's not your typical horror episode or just your
typical horror thing. It's the citizens, the people, the humans
(28:37):
are the monsters. And it was such a wonderful episode.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Oh thank you get that again. That was we shopping
in Toronto up in Canada. Or was it maybe not Toronto, it.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Was Vancouver, Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
It was Vancouver.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
And you know what was really funny was we was
got in locations and we had the perfect location and said, oh,
you'll never get that. These people never do it. I said,
let me go knock on the door. I knocked on
the door and she went, Lizzie, your grant.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I'm like yeah, And we got the location because she
was fan.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Debbie was at the house where that family was living
that everyone thought was like the bad guys.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
It's such a wonderful house.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It's this sort of scary observation of how false they
made up information and paranoia and jumping to conclusions contributes
to our own self destruction and demise.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
It's super timely.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
These people like are thinking that this one family are
the monsters, and when turned they're the monsters.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, yeah good.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I know we got a television is so powerful and
we have to keep doing things and making things that
can help people start to think about the world and
about the community a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And what is like that? Who are the real monsters?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yes, and you can check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
It's on YouTube. I watched it on YouTube, so if
anybody wants to check it out.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Debbie Allen, you are the greatest. I'm trying to think
if there's anything else in this episode did I mean,
I don't even know if you remember if there was
anything else in this episode that stood out to you
before we let you go. There are a few things
for me and no pressure, but I was so disgusted
by Leo Bergen is paying this little cheerleader to hook
up with Jerry Grant, their son and get a sperm
(30:23):
sample so that Melly can test if he is fits
his son and not Big Jerry's son. Yes, and Lee
call it. I wrote something like man chowder and I
almost gagged. I was like, are these writers kidding?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
This is so grud That actress is so good.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
She was so good, she was so good. I'm trying
to think if there were any other like big acting wins. Oh,
this is where you're doing the whole bomb was being
set up, and you think that the bomb is underneath
where they're doing an election speech. But then we realized
that the bomb is in the funeral home, is at
(31:02):
the funeral of the senator that was High Tower who
was murdered, and it was like all staged.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I remember going on location with that. I remember that,
I remember shooting the stage. We were at a school
somewhere and not far from the studio. I remember that.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, gee, did you have any other moments that you
like liked.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
There's a moment Katie where Huck is like, Okay, I'll
go find him. When you, Charlie and myself were talking
about we need to find Dominic, and Huck is, let's
just go out there and find him, and you and
Charlie are like, no, let's do this, and I'm like,
its screwed it. I'm gonna go find him. And then
he comes back and he drops the body on the ground.
Dominant is not dead yet. And and your face, your reaction,
(31:46):
I think that's the moment that Quinn decided she's gonna
have sex with Huck, because your reaction, your face is
You're like, you're almost like licking your lips.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
It's just a dead body. These people were so sick.
G and I haven't had intimate scenes since this new
role of an intimacy coordinator, which is so awesome. And
when we got this scene, G and I, before we
came to said had a conversation where we were like,
Quinn and Hook, they can't just movie kiss, like their
(32:16):
pain and pleasure threshold is very confused and heightened, and
so we basically were like are you cool with a
lot of tongue.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
That was our yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Intimacy coordinator conversations.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
We were just like, I'm cool, you cool? Do whatever?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Like we were like, are you cool? Do you feel
safe with me? And what was so cool was we
had already worked together for three years and had become
such tight friends that we were like, I feel great,
Let's do whatever.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
Yeah, it was great. You all were friends and so
you fell into it and it was okay. You knew
you were playing your part and you all went for it.
And it was so hot. Oh, it was hot.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
It was it was hilarious.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
We're on a car. And also before we let you go,
the last thing. Do you remember, right before we have
sex on the car, Quinn slaps the shit out of
Huck and I nailed him in the ear and I
couldn't tell, but g says, when you watch back the episode,
his ear is like straight red and he went deaf
for twenty.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Debby, I couldn't hear for like twenty minutes. But listen,
I'm a trooper. The show must go on. I would
like to do it again.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Let's go.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Oh real, we could never stop rolling. I would never
say cut for that because it was too good.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
It's real.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, it was so real.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Yes, it's like that moment I was on Broadway in
the taunting scene. I was playing Anita in West Side.
Oh my god, the scene which they often called the
rape scene where a Jets really attacked a Nia. Yes, yeah,
one night something happened and those boys pull my inturn
blouse off and that was no did on stage on Broadway.
(33:54):
And when I tell you, I slept, every last one
of the mass tried to knock them out and it
was like I hit them for real too, because it
was just too real it happened.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And then the little yeah, Debnie, that was fat, that
was fat? Do it again. I'm like, shut up, shut.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Up, shut up, and next time, don't pull my blouse off.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Yeah, Debbie, you have had the like this is insane.
And also how do you look the way you do?
I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I'm so tired girl.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Come on, no, no, you are so gorgeous. It is insane.
And then you run a school that has unbelievable programming,
and you direct, and you run Gray's Anatomy, and you
act on Grais Anatomy and you're the villain, and you
have children and a husband and a life.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
I know it's a little tricky. It's a little tricky.
One thing at a time, and take time. Husband and
I had a great fortieth anniversary celebration.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Oh day, gradual elation.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
You know, I have grand babies.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
I have two and Vivings expecting one and now my
son Thump is expecting one.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I have four. I'm going to have four by November.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Oh my, wow, have no bless and my mom is
going to turn one hundred and one July twenty ninth.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Are oh my god kidding me really quickly. I read something,
DeBie that your dad, who has passed away now accompanied
you to the Emmys, right, and you won your Emmy
for Choreography for Fame, and then shortly after he passed away.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Oh, but how special, how wonderful that he got to
go to the Emmys with you and.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
You, oh, you were able to be there with him.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Yeah, it's something I treasure seeing that clip because I
see him in the audience. Oh, I see him in
the audience. I'm looking at him and yeah, daddy was
a dentist and he really supported me and my such
a fulicial shot who is amazing.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I waited on her once when I was in nobody
and she was, oh, yeah. I used to work at
this big theater restaurant called Cafe Cello. It was a
great gig because you only worked till, you know, four
pm to seven forty five. You got everyone asses out
to the theater and then there was a ghost town
in there. So I really liked the job. But one
time Felicia came in there, and I remember she ordered
(36:17):
her soup and it sounded like the best voice in
speech class I'd ever heard, Like just the way her
instrument worked. I don't know if she was coming from. Yeah,
like her cadence and her speech and dialect in her
the way her voice was supported, and she was so
classy and let it be known, she was so nice
(36:38):
to me and I would never forget it. And that
day she made my day. I got to call my
parents and be like I waited on.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Oh my god, she's a little girl.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
We grew up, we grew up with a big family,
so we're pretty down to her people, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
So Debbie, thank you so much for making time in
your busy, busy schedu Well, we love you so much.
You are literally one of your special human beings on
the planet.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
And I'm gonna rewatch the entire scandal. I'm going to
hold up.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
It's so good.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Holds up.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, I'm gonna watch it again. It's really great.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
It is.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, Okay, we love you.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ge Wow. Not only do we have tweets at the
time tonight, we also have a user review that said
get rid of Quinn. I want to and this is
what it says. This is a featured review. You guys
are gonna love this. I want to just barf every
time Quinn is in a scene. There is no legitimate
(37:48):
reason why she should have any combat or shooting skills. Honestly,
how did she acquire these almost magical skills she suddenly has.
It's not believable that she would be recruited by a
super spy organization. She's trying too hard to be a
ross between Huck and Olivia. She's not a bad aass
like she wants to be. She isn't useful any longer
to the show as a character and should be written out.
Thank you so much whoever wrote that. Thank you for
(38:11):
caring and having strong feelings.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Listen, Katie, I don't know about you, but I used
to get pressed about ship like that written about me
or about Huck in the beginning of this show. I
used to hurt my feelings, but now I literally I
search for it. I I love it. The nastier, the better,
the meaner they are to me, the better. It's just enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It's so enjoyable. And also people feel they're anonymous into
this social media world. If I were to write back
to that person and be like, Hi, what's up. I
can't believe you felt the way of my character, they
would be like, oh no, my god, it's just kidding.
They think you're writing it into the ether.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
One's gonna go and yeah or read it, or that
we'll never read it.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Number one feeling tweeted Mellie Grant please stop being a victim?
Or how Olivia Pope owes you nothing? Wow?
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah she is victimy in this episode. But hey, she
was literally raped by her husband's.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Father, right, she's upset. Look at m z M y N.
Well here's a harsh one, Katie. You're in good company.
I hate Jake hashtag scandal.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Oh wait, here's an amazing, amazing Retta. We should have
her on what Heretta? Yes, I can text her. Ritta,
whose Twitter handle is at unfreddable, said I need Andrew
to stop screwing my wife. She wrote, here's your cake?
Fits would you like to eat it too? Oh? So
(39:48):
she feels like Melly has every right to be screwing
Andrew because Fitz is also a cheater. Oh my god,
this is really mean and really good at Aufen Trovert wrote,
the day Jeoffrey on Game of Throw and Quinn from
Scandal die, it will be the happiest days on social media.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yes, wait did that character die on Game of Thrones
because print didn't die.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
That's right, that's right, Introvert.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Let's see at Bella Dame Noir tweeted something was up
with the scene. I don't think it was just a
scene thrown in there. It's the scene where there's a
picture of popa Pope and Harrison.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I know, but there. Yeah, there was a weird feeling there.
I kind of remember that. Oh to tweet it again,
she wrote, is anyone else uncomfortable with the sex scene
knowing Kerry is pregnant?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Hashtag phoebe Liza, I like this one.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
At pm Kel tweeted I want to be drunk Melly
Grant when I grow up.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Hashtag scandal.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
At Forever Island, g Olivia guilty face when Jake says
how she slept with him l O l O l
l o llollol. Oh this is just fab Someone tweeted
a great picture of me, Danny Buka and Bells.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
With glass with sunglasses on.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
That's really and you guys next up is the finale
of season three. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
All? Right?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
How do we there?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Already?
Speaker 3 (41:12):
We did it. We did the second season of Unpacking
victorm Ball.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And it's called what is that one called? The Price
of Free and Fair Elections?
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Guys, it's a doozy Episode three eighteen, The Price of
Free and Fair Elections.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Season three of Scandal.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Keep you with us, guys, Stick with us. We'll explain.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
You'll get it.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
You'll get it. We'll probably have a great guest.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
We love you the you guys. Bye.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Unpacking the Toolbox was executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce,
Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and
editor is Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Guillermo Díaz
Katie Lowes
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